October 26, 2021 • 45 mins
When the pandemic began, journalist Ashton Pittman began working at the Mississippi Free Press, a new nonprofit media outlet, not realizing what the future would hold. At a time when local, national, and global communities relied heavily on news outlets for an accurate portrayal of the Covid pandemic, Ashton’s work to provide fair and accurate journalism became essential. Not only reporting on Covid-19 but also on the Black Lives Matter protests in Mississippi, Ashton came face to face with combating misinformation and vaccine hesitancy, all the while uplifting stories of Mississipians in a media desert. Roundtable guests: Award-winning journalists Maria Hinojosa from Latino USA on NPR and Julio Ricardo Varela from Latino Rebels, both produced by the Futuro Media Group.
Learn more about the Mississippi Free Press: http://mississippifreepress.org/
Learn more about Maria and Julio’s podcast, In The Thick: https://www.inthethick.org
Learn more about Futuro Media: https://www.futuromediagroup.org
Learn more about Latino Rebels: https://www.latinorebels.com
Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/public/bb77b0f4-77a8-4888-bd34-0da794a592ae
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everyone in Wilmer Balderrama and I'm m R. Raquel.
Welcome back to Essential Voices. So what's up this week Wilmer?
Anything spooky? Well? We love stories here at Essential Voices,
don't we. M R. You love my stories? Right, duh?
That's what we're here to do. Share stories. Sometimes you
(00:22):
tell me stories, sometimes I tell you stories, and sometimes
we tell ghost stories. I mean, come on, it's Halloween week. Yeah.
Are you trying to get me to do the Monster
Mash with you? Is that what's going on over here?
I mean, you know, I'd love to do the Monster
Mash with you, But we also spend a lot of
time processing and discussing current events on the show, which
(00:44):
is kind of what I think we should be doing
instead of the Monster Mash. Sure, but let's just agree
that Monster Mash deserves his own episode, So I'm just
putting that on the counter for us in finale. But no, seriously,
we're only able to process and this causs current advance
on the show thanks to the tireless work of responsible
journalist who prioritize distribution of fair and accurate information exactly
(01:09):
and like all essential work, journalism in all shapes and
forms has totally been essential for centuries, but the past
few years have also seen an uptick in the spreading
of misinformation on places like Facebook and Twitter, making reliable
journalism all the more vital. We've relied on accurate reporting
for updates on the pandemic, making the work quite literally
a matter of life or death true and then when
(01:32):
you think about it, you hear all about journalists getting
basically attacked online just for trying to tell the truth,
and it makes me wonder what's really going on with
our essential journalists in this country. We're on the same
page there, Wilmer. So today we're going to hear from
essential worker Ashton Pittman, a journalist at the Mississippi Free Press.
(01:52):
Throughout the past two years, he's worked hard to report
accurately on the pandemic and was also on the ground
covering the Black Lives Matter protests and Mrs Sippy. After that,
we'll have a round table with the host of the
podcast In the Thick and legendary journalists in their own right,
Maria you Nojosa and Julio Ricardo Varilla. Maria is a
longtime acre of Latino USA on NPR and also founded
(02:14):
the Futuro Media Group, which produces In the Thick as
well as an amazing program that Julio runs called Latino Rebels.
Go check them out. I can't wait. I mean, who
doesn't think of Maria and Julio when they think of
incredibly inspiring Latinos and journalism. So let's dive in. Ashton
story starts right now. My name is Ashton Pittman, and
(02:37):
I'm calling from Colombia, Mississippi. Great Ashton would thank you
very much for having this conversation with me. You know,
maybe you can tell me a little bit about how
you were inspired to become a journalist. For me, I've
always just loved writing. But I was eleven years old
when nine eleven happened, or I was twelve. I just
turned twelve. I think I was also tenor eleven at
(02:58):
the time of the two thousand election. I think those
two events really inspired a lot of my interest in
current events. And when I was in college, I was
invited in my freshman year to be on the newspaper staff,
and I then decided that I would just go for journalism.
So I joined the journalism program at the University of
Southern Mississippi, and you know, as one of my classes,
(03:19):
we had to write a kind of a news blog,
So I started blogging for the class, and that was
something I just kept doing even after the class was
direct I kept writing on it, and just over the
course of doing that, I broke a few stories with
it that got picked up. And I remember waking up
one day and being absolutely just shocked that Rachel Mattout
(03:40):
of MSNBC had retweeted one of my blog posts. And
so for me, I just realized that with journalism, you know,
I could actually have an impact, and I could have
an impact in a place like Mississippi. The next thing
I knew, I was working for the Jackson Free Press
and you know, just doing these stories on systemic racism
and gender inequality and lgbt Q issues in Mississippi, and
(04:05):
towards the end of tween nineteen, I learned that my editor,
Donna Latch he was working with Kimberly Griffin, who I
am at through the Jackson Free Press because she works there,
that they were starting a new publication, which is the
Mississippi Free Press, and it's a nonprofit it's separate from
the Jackson Free Press. And I was supposed to launch
in the summer of but the pandemic hit and a
(04:27):
few days after its arrival in March, I was talking
to Donna and she told me, Um, you know, I
think we should just go out launch. I think people
need our reporting right now. Within a few days, we
had a makeshift website just several days after the pandemic
drived here. And that's a very short rundown of my
story when it comes to journalism. But that's how I
(04:48):
got to the Mississippi Free Press. That's unbelievable. I wonder
if you know, being in a blue dot in a
rest state as a journalist must have press some challenges too.
So what are some of those challenges you face as
a journalist. Jackson is definitely a lu dot in Mississippi,
you know. For us at the Mississippi Free Press, I
think it's kind of really important to not be partisan.
(05:09):
And what I mean by that is, I don't mean,
you know that we report both sides are equal or
anything like that. What I mean is that is that
our mission isn't about partisanship. We're going to tell the
truth about the people in power right now, all the
people in power Republicans, and we believe in holding the
people in power to account. If it was democrats in power,
we would be holding them accountable too, because the last
(05:31):
time Democrats were in power was twenty years ago. Democrats
controlled the governorship, the House, the Senate of the state,
and yet twenty years ago Mississippi was still dead last,
first in poverty, dead last in education, health care. So
for us, it's a lot more about people than politics.
(05:51):
And you know, I think we get attacked a lot
as being liberals, because that's one of the biggest insult
you can throw out here. But all we're doing is
just asking questions that aditionally haven't been asked. Whether it's
because the older media was more conservative, or it's because
older media was just scared of losing advertisers, I think
all of those things have been a factor. Right, That
(06:11):
was the biggest thing, because the advertisers really kind of
dictated your ability to appeal to whatever market kept a
light on. I think that that was a generation and
where they felt that the audience probably wanted to hear
a certain perspective about America that was not necessarily what
was going on in our neighborhoods. Do you feel like
that those are the stories that you gravitate towards as
(06:33):
a generalist. Yeah, because I think there's a lot of
people in the country that have this idea of Mississippi,
this stereotype. But this is the blackest state in the country.
We have to talk about the people that are underrepresented.
Mississippi has the highest proportion of lgbt Q families that
are raising children of any state in the country inside
Mississippi and outside Mississippi. They've got to stop writing so
(06:56):
many people out of the narrative. So that's one thing
we really want to do, is to make sure that
when we talk about Mississippi we mean Hispanic Mississippians and
Black Mississippians and LGBTQ Mississippians and just so many people
that traditionally have just been left out of any discussion,
all of saying you get introduced this pandemic, how do
things that work changed for you? And how about at
(07:17):
home too? So, like I said, you know, we weren't
planning to launch the Mississippi Free Press until closer to
summer twenty so when the pandemic hit, we all decided,
instead of you know, pushing our launch day back further,
that we were just going to throw up and makeshift
website because we didn't have our website ready yet or anything,
and we were just going to start reporting at home.
I actually have my nine year old grandmother and my mom,
(07:41):
who's sixty four she has diabetes that live with us.
So for me, I locked my house down. Then a
few days after doing that, I start this job. We
set up an office space in my basement. So I'm
spending a lot of time in the house with the
family working. I'm not going out on assignment for a while.
L uh. And that lasted probably through March and April.
(08:04):
But then in May we had the death of George Floyd,
and that's when I started going back out again into
the field, and I started just covering Black Lives Matter
protests because they were just everywhere in Mississippi, and you know,
kind of just navigating, you know, is it's safe to
walk through a crowd with a mask outdoors, because at
the time, I don't think we knew how safe it
was or wasn't outdoors. You know, it's kind of scary
(08:25):
first because I really didn't know, and I didn't want
to bring anything back to my vulnerable family members. Like
everyone else, we were just learning as things developed and
changing our strategies and the way that we handled things
just based on the information we were getting. There's a
ton of misinformation about the pandemic and vaccinations. I'm on
other topics right, So as a journalist, what steps did
(08:47):
you take to address this? It's been a serious challenge.
I think throughout the pandemic, I have tried to do
everything I can to convince as many people as possible
that they should listen to what the medical expects of
saying what the medical science says, you know. I've tried
to learn myself before I speak, to make sure that
what I'm telling people, if they ask me or if
(09:08):
I'm reporting it is correct. And there's been a lot
of frustration for me because I feel like, especially last
year one again I was the only full time reporter.
There was a lot of frustration because I felt like
I was spending so much time making sure that I
knew what I was putting out there was correct, and
then I would log on to Facebook and I would
see a friend or family member spreading, you know, misinformation.
(09:29):
There was a while there where I would spend a
lot of time just going back and forth with people
trying to convince them, But I think eventually I've kind
of got to a place where I can tell the
difference between someone who is misinformed and is willing to
listen and people who are just honestly, I want to
misinform others because there are some people who just have
no interest in learning or being told that they're wrong,
(09:51):
and some of that's for political reasons, and some of
us because conspiracy theories can be really attractive to people.
What did you do personally to take care of your
mental health? Do you think about the frustration or maybe
the energy or the trauma you may be experiencing with
you trying to tell the truth in broadcasting, write things
that are critically important for the community, and then the
(10:15):
backlash of individuals they probably come in after you as well.
So how do you feel about that? I know it's
something a lot of journalists have dealt with. For me,
especially last year when all of this was new and
when there were so few of us in the early days,
and this to be prepressed, there were several times where
I found myself just getting really down and really uh,
(10:35):
not just frustrated, but almost oppressed. I felt like, you know,
I was screaming into a void often, and you know,
there have been times where it's just been it's just heartbreaking.
There was someone that I spent time with over the
past year, arguing with first about masks and later about vaccines,
and I had not heard from him in a while,
but in June I saw tweets start popping up with
(10:59):
a screen shots of a tweet that he had sent
I think in May or sometimes saying he wasn't getting
vaccinated and he didn't trust the vaccine, and people was
sharing this tweet because he had died in the months since.
Just seeing that and realizing this is a man that
I've tried to convince repeatedly, it made me sick. And
then I saw tweets from his daughter, who had turned
(11:20):
out she had also tried and tried to convince him
to get vaccinated. It's heart wrenching, but for me, there's
also this part of it that's like, you know, if
his own daughter couldn't convince him, then I wasn't going
to convince him either. I really had to just kind
of try to separate as much as I can my
emotional and personal investment and try to pour that into
(11:41):
my words instead of letting it just consume me. I
try to just do journalism in a way that my
passion and my feelings about these things come across. People
tell me sometimes I can tell you care from the
way you report these stories, and I try to channel
those feelings into that now, because otherwise they really can
consume you, because it does start to just feel like
(12:02):
you're screaming into a void and all the things you're
doing you're just having no impact. But also, no, that's
not true, because I've had people just out of the
blue tell me, you know, months ago you you wrote something,
or you tweeted something and I got vaccinated because of it,
or I gotta loved when vaccinated. So I know I'm
having an impact. And I try to just remember that
that people all throughout this pandemic have learned things because
(12:25):
of my journalism. And that's what I tell other journalists
that get upset about this, is that I just know
you're having an impact. You're not going to hear from
nine point nine percent at least are the people you
have an impact on and learned something from you. But
you are having an impact, and just hold on to
that when it starts to feel like you're screaming into
the void. How do you feel like we as a
(12:47):
community can support whether it's the amplification, whether it's the
engagement of the subscription, but ultimately, how can we support
some of the positivity that you're spreading with some of
your journalism. As I've said before, we're a nonprofit and
there's no pay walls, so we put our journals out free.
So for us, you know, we rely on donors, small donors.
(13:08):
We actually just yesterday surpassed a thousand unique donors since
we began. That's the number one tangible way to support
what we're doing because it allows us to hire more
journalists and gives the rest of us a little time
to breathe between stories, which I needed really badly last year.
Of course, like you said, amplifying our stories, sharing our stories,
(13:28):
the most gratifying thing and the thing that's helped me
not go into dark places when it just got really
hard has been just all the love from the community.
And by that I mean all across the country. It's
not just Mississippi we have. We have so many supporters
across the nation and some across the world. And I've
had people who have never been in Mississippi tell me
(13:50):
that because of what we do they care about Mississippi now,
or that they read a story about something going on
in Mississippi and it made them examine what's going on
and they're all state are their own hometown. And you know,
that's just as much our mission as Mississippi, because I
think Mississippi in a lot of ways is a mirror
to America. I think it's really easy to dismiss us,
(14:13):
but anything that's happening in Mississippi, I know we're number
fifty and a lot of things, but anything that's happening
in Mississippi is happening in the rest of America at
some point. So it's just really great to see people
learn about Mississippi but also learn about where they're from too.
What messages would you like to leave for those future journalists.
We have enough people that are obsessed with politics and media.
(14:35):
We need more people who have a passion for people.
That's just key to me is put people first and
hold the powerful to account. Don't go into this if
you want to have access to powerful people, because you
can do that. You can have access to powerful people,
but you're not going to do a great journalism. So
people first, that's my main advice is make sure that
you have a passion for people, for telling people's stories
(14:57):
and for uplifting them, not people in power. Amazing, Ashton.
Thank you so much for your time, Appreciate the light
that you brought to this conversation, and excited to support
you in the future to make sure that everyone knows
you know how important it is the role that you
play for the community and for the people that you
speak on behalf of you know, so thank you again,
(15:17):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy we got to
talk to Ashton, not just because he is an amazing journalist,
but because he also gives such important insight to a
part of the country that, as he points out, is
very easily stereotyped. As he mentioned at the end of
his story, there's so much we can learn about Mississippi
(15:39):
and applied to where we live, even outside of Mississippi. Yeah, exactly,
and to our listeners in Mississippi were so stoked that
we got to learn more about your state. I also
really appreciate Ashton's people first approach on his journalism, focusing
on the stories and the storytellers. The only way we're
going to learn true and accurate information about the world
around us is if we back and listen first. And
(16:02):
speaking of listening, when we get back, we'll be doing
the monster match. I'm kidding, you don't have the rights
for that. Uh. We'll talk and learn with Mariajosa and
Julio Ricardo Barrella. We're here today in conversation with Maria
(16:26):
no Josa from Latino USA on NPR and founder of
the Media Group, and Julio Ricardo Barrella, also from Media
and from Latino Rebels. Maria and Julio were so excited
to have you today, really excited for today's conversation, Wilmer,
what if we got cooking up? First of all, welcome,
(16:46):
Thank you so much for being part of Essential Voices. Um,
what are your reactions to Ashton's story, and maybe we'll
start with you Maria, Well, I am like go Ashton.
I mean, for me, he is representative of everything that
gives me hope about journalism, essentially self funded journalism, dedicated
(17:06):
to being of service. Right, so it's not about elevating
himself or about making money, it's about really doing this
essential work. And having been recently in Mississippi and at
the time when it was on fire in terms of
COVID and the Delta variant. Ashton is right, there is
desperate need for trustworthy information in a place like Mississippi.
(17:32):
So I'm just like, go, Ashton, you have just given
me hope. I love that he never stopped, just like
we did, because that's what we do. This is our
job and we love it. And you can feel that
love for being a journalist in Ashton's voice, and I
think that's what kind of makes us understand that we
are essential. M Thank you so much for sharing that mania.
(17:54):
And what about for you, Julio. One of the things
that struck me what money is in and about what
Ashton said was this notion of the mission, that the
mission is bigger than anybody else. And if you think
about it as an individual. As much as people think
about journalism, they think about the bigger voices and the media,
(18:14):
but it's not a lucrative profession. It really isn't, so
it has to be mission driven. And obviously, hearing ashton story,
he's also working in a nonprofit, which is what Maria
founded with Food Little Media eleven years ago. And I've
had the privilege to be working with money Es since
two thousand fourteen and being her co host and In
the Thick and also on Latino USA. And you know,
(18:36):
when we were both listening to this, in my head,
I'm like, this is exactly what we do. Not only
did we send Maria down to Mississippi this year, but
we were there a year after the immigration raids on
the chicken processing plants that Maria was down there, and
we also did a live in the Thick show with
Mississippi voices who were saying the same things that Ashton
(18:57):
was saying. And what's really important is when you look
at a state like Mississippi, it is a media desert.
There's not a lot of opportunities for independent voices to
be there. So anyone that begins to sort of plant
the seeds to inform the community the right way, which
is what Ashton is doing, is adding such immense value.
(19:18):
Because the people we were in Jackson, right, so you know,
we were in the blue dot, and the level of
people in genuine compassion and genuine curiosity for what is
going on and the history of resistance in Mississippi is
all connected. So go Ashton, keep doing it. I love
(19:39):
the fact also that they said, hey, this is free,
we want to give this this is a value to
the community, and that's a lot of what we do
with foot Little Media. We don't want to hide behind
the work that we're doing, so um we believe in
the mission and and it's great to hear someone else
who's essential saying the same thing. Wow, thanks so much
for saying that, Julio, for hearing your thoughts. And you know,
(20:01):
both of you right now are talking about the power
of sharing what might be considered to use your words
from earlier untold stories, which makes Ashton's reporting all the
more crucial in a place that both he and you
both are considering to be more or less a media dessert.
And right now feels like such a unique time for
journalism and especially journalism that centered around storytelling, honoring the
(20:22):
folks for sharing their stories and making sure that the
mic is being given to folks in places like Mississippi.
And both of you have been journalists for a long time,
spearheading incredible journalism and political initiatives by Latin folks and
folks of color for you media you created with Tudo
Media and Latino USA decades ago. But you created these
programs out of a need because they didn't exist from
(20:44):
the beginning, which is just one of many structural issues
when providing ethical and inclusive journalism, especially when this means
not sharing stories by and for black and brown communities.
So for you media and Julio, feel free to jump
in after what was missing from let's, you know, say,
more traditional journalism when Latino USA first started. That's a
(21:07):
deep question. Oh well, let's see. Look, the truth is
is that Latino USA and even my hiring at NPR
as the first Latina correspondent, did not happen in a vacuum.
It did not happen of just like, go, let's make
this happen. It was actually a highly politicized moment. Why
(21:31):
I think it was in the nineteen eighties that actually
Time magazine may have declared it like the decade of
the Hispanic It may have been something to do with
the fact that Ronald Reagan in six did push through
the Immigration Reform and Control Act, which meant that three
million people were able to become legalized right the path
to citizenship. And so a lot of people were like,
(21:52):
oh my god, man, there were all these Latinos, like
there were the here and they're staying, you know, like
what's this and and people like Madam Martin, who was
a generation ahead of me, were like, we have to
be in public media. We have to be in public
media because public media is independent, it's free. We have
to be there. And so she actually went to members
(22:13):
of Congress and was saying, you know, if we don't
have any Latino Latino voices on NPR reporting and it's
you know, the nineteen nineties, we have a problem. So
there has been a long history of activism of Latinos
and Latinos in particular around issues and access to media.
(22:35):
People forget that in the nineteen seventies here in New
York City, the Young Lords and Allies took over Channel thirteen,
the public television station here, because they didn't have any
Latinos on the air. So the thing is that when
we formed Latino USA in n what was really interesting
is that everybody was like, Oh my god, isn't that
(22:56):
cune Oh my god. The Latinos wanted to have like
it'll shove for themselves. Oh that's so adorable, it's probably
gonna last like three years. Oh my god, they're so cute.
I'm wondering what that person looks like that talks like that.
(23:17):
I love that I love that, you know, so, yes,
I was trying to get that going. But anyway, here's
the last laugh. Who's having the last laugh? That the
USA in the year will be on the year thirty
years And we've been documenting this and I guess you know,
if you look at the historical record, what's sad is that,
(23:40):
you know, if we had to fight for visibility in
the eighties and nineties, and at least we achieved some visibility,
what we are now having to do is to deconstruct
a narrative that is false about who we are. So
we went from being invisible to hyper visible. But now
hint is like when, also like when did you cross
(24:03):
the border? And did you climb over the wall? And
is your family MS their team? And are you drug dealers?
And you're just like what you know? And that we
did not create We did not create that. Yeah, wow, Maria,
You're so right. We did not create that narrative. And
something else to add to this creation of the false
(24:23):
latinox narrative and negative media portrayal is the pandemic and
misinformation being spread by so many media sources. You know,
throughout the pandemic, I turned to my favorite what I
consider to be reliable news programs and podcasts, among other
outlets for factual, accurate reporting and journalism based on storytelling
to make sure I knew it was happening, not just
(24:44):
in my community but all around the world. These last
two years have been a time for journalism to be
at its most reliable, and yet the spread of misinformation
has been a blaze like wildfires on Facebook and Twitter
all over the place. That's what's being miss because when
people talk about the disinformation, specifically in communities where Spanish
is the dominant language in this country, and even indigenous languages,
(25:07):
I mean in places like Mississippi where Spanish is a
second language that they're indigenous language, is the lack of
expertise from a journalistic angle in those languages. So everyone
talks about English and misinformation and Facebook and all that
blood YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA, and you know, we're blocking
anti vax videos and everything. And then here I am,
even up here in Medford, Massachusetts. I'm I'm recording out
(25:29):
of Boston. There's an evangelical who has like thousands and
thousands and thousands of followers says things in Spanish about
how the vaccine is gonna like and that's in Spanish,
and no one's checking that. I mean, he's not getting
banned because the gatekeepers are only gonna want to do
what they can do so they can look good and
like news media, but they're not connecting to like underrepresentative communities.
(25:52):
And then we're in a very unfair position because again
going back to how people view us as journalists, we
have as much impact as the Washington Posts, in the
New York Times and other major organizations, but because we
are ethnic media, we're not seen as like the mainstream
when in fact, if you look at the history of
(26:12):
quote unquote ethnic media in the United States, those are
the truth tellers. Frederick Douglas, you know what I mean,
There is a truth here that has always been part
of the American way of journalism, and that's where we
need to elevate and amplify those voices. And don't get
(26:34):
me started about like Miami talk radio and misinformation, because
you want to talk about like all this misinformation about vaccinations,
um and and COVID and Florida. I mean, it's an
industry and no one's checking them. And one of our colleagues,
one of our friends it is not a colleague, but
a good friend. Almost did a really great piece of
advice about that information in Spanish that I always cite
(26:58):
because it's very there's very little report warding about it.
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices. So what were you doing Attromedia with your
journalism to combat this misinformation that was spreading? And let's
start with you media. Very early on, first, I got
COVID in March, so very early on, we were kind
(27:19):
of dealing with it up close and personal, and I
was actually documenting my own story. I was hearing from
my students. I'm a professor at Barnard College, my alma mater,
because you know I'm I'm Mexican. I have sixteen jobs,
so one of them is being a professor. Um, you know,
I was hearing from my students who are first gen
you know, their parents were losing their jobs, they were
(27:41):
getting sick. So we were documenting the reality as it
was happening. Because if the epicenter of the pandemic is
in Queens and the South Bronx, hello, who's there. And
then at the same time, I have to be very honest.
I did have vaccine apprehension at the very beginning, because
I was terrified of feeling the symptoms again, and so
(28:05):
I was very public about what I was experiencing. Now,
of course I'm very lucky. I'm incredibly lucky because I
was like, well, I'm feeling vaccine apprehension. Who can talk
me down to about this? And it's like Dr Fauci.
It's like, okay, get Dr Faucci on the phone, and
so you know, Dr Fauci was able to explain to me.
(28:27):
But I felt it was very important that I do
speak about my apprehension metion that I didn't want to
feel sick again, that oh my god, I was scared.
And then when I didn't go to get the vaccine.
The telling of the story, which was actually very beautiful
because the person who put the shot in my arm
in an old grammar school in the South Bronx, was
(28:51):
a nurse from Ghana, an immigrant just like myself, who
saw that I was crying. I was so scared, and
she just said this is your freedom shot. This is
your freedom shot. And then I just was like, Harriet Tubman,
I don't know it just like it clicked. I was like,
this is freedom and so I documented all of that
(29:12):
in order to be hyper intimate in my life and
in our lives, as you know, many of my colleagues
in because one of our colleagues told the story of
losing three members of her family, indigenous members of her family.
So we have fought that misinformation by doing what we
do all the time, which is telling the truth and
being super transparent and super honest and putting yourself in
(29:34):
the story. Right, I mean, go Aheadlia, Sorry, Yeah, we
were just saying we tell the human stories. I mean,
not only did we look at Queens and the South Bronx,
but like Maria said, the story of Lily and her
family members, you know, out of Chicago, but also you know,
I'm based in Boston, and I noticed that the epicenter was,
you know, right outside of Boston, a city called Chelsea, Massachusetts,
(29:55):
which is literally the most immigrant first yet if you
ever pick a s in Massachusetts of the first generation
immigrant from Central America and Latin America, it's Chelsea, Massachusetts.
Those voices were not being seen in places, they weren't
being spoken to, they weren't given the mic, and we
continue to pursue that, and the only way we kind
(30:16):
of go pass misinformation is by telling those human stories
and saying, you know, this is what people are telling us.
And when you start hearing that this pandemic decimated Latino,
black and brown communities and other underrepresented communities, you have
to ask yourself, why, right now, how did we miss
(30:38):
this story? We didn't miss it. I'm talking about when
you see the major narrative of COVID in the United States,
is it a black and brown issue. It was always
much more privileged because in the space of white male newsrooms,
they don't know those communities. And then when they try
(30:59):
to do it, it was like, let's just parachute in.
We were able because we knew the communities, were able
to report very quickly on it. We need to like
elevate all these voices, whether it's bloggers or people that
are sharing um, you know, factual information on Twitter in
Spanish or another languages. It's our responsibility as journalists to
be like, this matters in my community. I need to
(31:19):
share it. I need to elevate and amplify it because
that's the only way you really find it well. And
you're talking about a narrative shift, right that's occurring across
all media platforms right now. I mean, we talk about
this a law on the show here, It's happening on TV,
it's happening in movies, it's happening in radio and podcasts
and essentially everywhere. We're seeing more folks critically investigating and reconfiguring,
(31:42):
which are both much needed changes. Who gets to tell
whose story and whose stories are being told and uplifted
and why? So my question for both of you is,
what do you think it is about the power of
storytelling and uplifting stories that allows for this narrative shift
to occur? And why is it important to focus on
the story and the storyteller? And Maria, what are your thoughts? Wow?
(32:03):
I mean great, Yeah, I feel like in so many ways,
particularly for Latinos and Latinas, our history in this country
isn't for all intents and purposes invisible. Imagine what would
happen if we were taught that, apart from the indigenous
languages that were spoken here first, that the first language
that we know of other than those indigenous languages that
(32:26):
were spoken was actually Spanish when the Spaniards arrived to St.
Augustine in Florida, and the second settlement also spoke Spanish,
it was Santa Fe. So you know, imagine if we
were actually learning the history less then people might just
(32:47):
be like, Okay, well wow, I guess I have to
kind of rethink American history now if you fast forward
that to what we're doing now in a lot of ways.
I mean, I do feel like I kind of go
into outer space talking about this, because I do because
I'm just like, okay, basically like I'm a democracy junkie, Okay,
Like I believe in representative democracy, which means multi racial,
(33:11):
true representation. And so when I'm asking people their stories
or putting their stories on our air, I feel like
it is an act of saying your voice matters. You
are an essential part of American history. These are not
Lettin Knows. I mean they are, but they're not Latino
stories or immigrants. They're American stories. This is American history.
(33:34):
And so especially for Latinos and Latinez there's a lot
of shame that is still in our communities. I mean,
for example, I was on the air in Detroit earlier
this week, and it's like when I was in Detroit
right before the shutdown, I was hearing from Latinos Mexicans
who were deported from Detroit in the nineteen thirties. So
(33:57):
it's like, K, so we have been here and the
act of telling the stories and asking people to tell
their stories, and how did you get there? How did
you get here? He go motively to me, it is
an act of saying, your voice matters, your story matters,
You matter, um and if I'm lucky, like this morning
when I ended up talking to a Mexican delivery guy
(34:20):
from Puerila for twenty minutes, you know, after boxing, I
was like, bro, if they gave you a chance, you know,
would you He's like, what you know? He thought about it,
and he was like, we see because of course he's
a New Yorker now. And then when I leave him,
you know, he's twenty five years old, the age of
(34:40):
my son, and I can't help me that, mommy. I'm
like patting him on the back and I'm like, went on,
Nico said, you got this, said don't read it. You
may feel invisible, but oh you may. I just saw you.
It's been half an hour talking and you matter and
(35:01):
not to me is again this deeply like, so believe
in your voice, believe in your power. When you can
go register to vote, so we can make sure because
you know not you know, are the second largest voting
block in the United States. Yeah, and there's a major
paradigm shift when it comes to how we kept your stories,
how we developed them, and you know what voice tells it.
And uh, I think that we are at a very
very interesting crossroads when it comes to storytelling. They've understood
(35:25):
that they can no longer do it without us. They
can't just take our stories and then amplify them the
way that they saw it when they encounter it, right,
you know. And I come full circle to to the
sentiment into this great conversation, which I'm very grateful that
you both have been able to really dive so deep
into this because when I think about how it started
(35:46):
in the pandemic, you talk about the critical experience that
we as a community we're going through wasn't really necessarily
manifested in the news. You know, they were reporting at
us in the sense that like, oh, this is the
percentage of latinos SO or African Americans of people of
color that get hit harder with COVID. But the reason
(36:08):
why I wasn't relevant for us, or wasn't even that
much more alarming when it came to when you asked
the Latino, how do you feel about that data, it's
because they never met a Latino that actually told them. Hey,
the reason why it hits us is because you know,
this is how we cook and this is how much
you know, how much more beluptuous my dad is that
he is before his height. I talked about this, you
(36:31):
know a few times on the show, because my dad
got COVID, you know, and he had you know, minor
heart attack um before that, and you know, so put
him in a in a vay vulnerable place and therefore,
you know, he's also not told enough for how beoluptuous
he is, right, So there therefore he's now double the
most vulnerable, right, So you know, and people were wondering,
(36:52):
like why is it hitting Latino's because nobody was saying that.
It was just like, it's hitting Latino's harder, it's hitting
people of color harder, you know what I mean. So
the point of this and the point of bringing this
anecdote is the fact that there was no relativity and
media when it came to how do we get to
our communities? So they are not just informed, but they're
(37:13):
ignited to put it in action, and therefore we got hit.
You know, we got hit many. But there's distrust, and
that's part of what's happened, is that you have you've
isolated us, you've targeted us. You know, we can't even
go to the police because you'll probably take us and
deport us and so everything. You know, do we answer
(37:33):
the census. We don't even know if we should answer
the census, even though you know many of us did,
and we are fully half of the population growth that
happened in the United States over the last ten years
was because of Latinos and Latinos getting it on inside
the country, not immigration. And there's this other thing, which
is really you know, our need among Latinos and Latinos
(37:55):
to be social. We have that too, and sometimes it
can be a little bit um irresponsible every that we're
going to get the family together, come hell or high water,
because we've got this going on, you know, both these
son you know, and we have all lost family because
of that. I lost family because of that, And so
you're right, it's kind of like, how do we meet
(38:17):
people where they are at and take into account, you know,
like the black community, there is distrust about institutions, the government,
and I think more because they don't see themselves in
community with them, right. I mean, like you said, we
don't have enough congressmen, we don't have enough senators, we
don't have enough governors or mayors that really speak to
(38:38):
the community in a more relatable manner. And then when
we do, we put all our hopes on the shoulders
of that person, and no person as fabulous as the
R is going to answer everything to the community because
in the end, you know, the monolith, even though we've
always said we're incredibly diverse and on so many levels,
(38:58):
we're still painted with this broad brush so that you know,
the Latinos have a right. It's the same type of
thing going over and over again, which is why we
got to continue to push through as much as it's frustrating,
but if you're doing it with this mission of saying
there's something bigger here that we're all going to help
push this forward, and you know, we might not get
(39:20):
to the end line, but we're going to pass the baton.
And I think we become more and more informed generation
by generations. So I'm incredibly hopeful to see more awareness
each and every day, and I notice it even in
the workings that we do as journalists, and there has
been a change, but there's a lot more that needs
to get done. Is there a word? Is there a
(39:41):
message you want to give to those future journalists when
it comes to the direction in the tone where we're
going and the things are at staked, and is their
solution s thoughts, you know, advice that that you can
lend to those future voices. Yeah. I mean one of
the things that I wish I told myself as a
young journalist, and I actually learned it from Maria just
(40:02):
and having the privilege of working with her daily is
to bring joy into the into the work that you do.
And I've been really conscious of trying to transmit the
joy to others at Food Poodle, where it's like, yeah,
we all work really hard, it's a grind, but we
love this right and you need to have time to
(40:23):
appreciate what you have, but also to take care of yourself.
And I think one of the things that us living
who have had the privilege of looking at the last
two years in the pandemic and being like, it's okay
to take care of yourself. It's not weakness, You're not
missing out on anything. You can take a pause, that
not every story needs to get covered. We're not competing,
(40:44):
you know. And I think that's that balance of and
finding this ability to see joy in the work that
we do. So I tell people out there be joyful
and take that risk, right. I know it sounds really like, oh, well,
you're the old dude telling us this, you know, blah
blah blah, you know, empty nest, you know, But I
(41:06):
think you have two people here who took risks, you know.
I I saw a need to exactly challenge that narrative
when I was like unemployed ten years ago, to challenge
and and saying I'm done, I'm going to go after
people that are getting this wrong. And that's where Latino
Rebels was born. And all of a sudden, people are like,
oh wait, I don't need to seek permission to call
(41:26):
people out that are misrepresenting our community because these guys
are doing it great, you know. And so I took
that risk. And I've been just so privileged that Maria
saw that as saying, like, you have agency and come
work at VODO. So those are the two things joy
and risk taking. But I know Maria has more informite
(41:49):
wisdom than I do. When it comes to this, I
was gonna say the opposite. My message to jucturalists out
there is actually no wheat did like. This is tough,
and so I need you to be prepared to understand
the toughness of it. And so I do always think
(42:12):
about Frederick Douglas. I to be wells someone who people
don't really know. Her name is Jovita from a Paso,
Mexican American just like me, badass journalists that Texas Rangers
try to shut down her newspaper at the turn of
the sentry Rubens, you know to me understanding that my
(42:33):
work as an American journalist is part of that long
arc of being a journalist of conscience in this country.
So to the young ones, I say me that dolls.
If you see it's all scary, it's all hard, you
know whatever it's if it's an audition or you have
to write your force piece, or it is scary. But
(42:55):
if you are my student, it's because you've pushed yourself.
You know this far, You've got it, you can do it,
and so I'm just like, go keep on going. And
if you look at many of the staff atto media,
they don't come from a kind of traditional you know,
high school college masters that we actually encourage journalists to apply,
(43:18):
especially if they have a kind of non traditional route,
going to community college, starting out as a freelancer, maybe
not having a college degree, not having a master's degree.
That does not stop you from joining a place like
and so own your power, own your voice, get your
peeps behind you, because you're gonna need a crew of peeps.
(43:41):
I had my girls, I had my squad, so and
my husband of course, um and my family. But find
the people and it's for the long haul, So no sin,
be joyful and take that risk. Just keep sitting with
those words from Julio and oh my gosh, what a
(44:03):
powerhouse duo for our round table talk about combating misinformation.
I can't think of two better truth tellers. And I'm
still pinching myself that I got to talk to Maria
and Julio. I'm so glad we could share Ashton's story
with them. It is inspiring right to hear that they
are all on the same page and that Maria had
a recent connection to Mississippi as well. And if you
(44:26):
don't already subscribe, definitely go check out in the Thick
with Maria and Julio one of my favorite podcasts. All right, Mr,
you convinced me I'll subscribe. No, I'm already subscribed. So
next week we'll talk with Essential Work with Christina Franco Abundies,
who runs Casarequitis and Tijuana, a safe and inclusive space
(44:46):
for lgbt Q plus migrants and a silent seekers. And
we'll have a round table discussion with do incredible lawyers
Lindsey Toslowski of the Immigrant Defenders Law Center and Emma
and Dubui Morris of the tren Standard Last Center. Essential
Voices with Wilmer val Drama is produced by me M. R. Raquel,
Alison Shano, and Kevin Retkowski, with production support from associate
(45:10):
producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer Val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by m. R.
Riquel and Sean Tracy and features original music by Will Risotti.
Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice, Ashton Pittman, and
to our thought leaders Maria Yojosa and Julio Ricardo Varilla.
(45:31):
Additional thanks to Gracie Goodman, Alyssa Walker and the Media
Group and Kelsey Jorgenson. This is a CLAIMER and w
V entertainment production in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael
Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from I Heart, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, everyone in Wilmer Balderrama and I'm m R. Raquel.
Welcome back to Essential Voices. So what's up this week Wilmer?
Anything spooky? Well? We love stories here at Essential Voices,
don't we. M R. You love my stories? Right, duh?
That's what we're here to do. Share stories. Sometimes you
(00:22):
tell me stories, sometimes I tell you stories, and sometimes
we tell ghost stories. I mean, come on, it's Halloween week. Yeah.
Are you trying to get me to do the Monster
Mash with you? Is that what's going on over here?
I mean, you know, I'd love to do the Monster
Mash with you, But we also spend a lot of
time processing and discussing current events on the show, which
(00:44):
is kind of what I think we should be doing
instead of the Monster Mash. Sure, but let's just agree
that Monster Mash deserves his own episode, So I'm just
putting that on the counter for us in finale. But no, seriously,
we're only able to process and this causs current advance
on the show thanks to the tireless work of responsible
journalist who prioritize distribution of fair and accurate information exactly
(01:09):
and like all essential work, journalism in all shapes and
forms has totally been essential for centuries, but the past
few years have also seen an uptick in the spreading
of misinformation on places like Facebook and Twitter, making reliable
journalism all the more vital. We've relied on accurate reporting
for updates on the pandemic, making the work quite literally
a matter of life or death true and then when
(01:32):
you think about it, you hear all about journalists getting
basically attacked online just for trying to tell the truth,
and it makes me wonder what's really going on with
our essential journalists in this country. We're on the same
page there, Wilmer. So today we're going to hear from
essential worker Ashton Pittman, a journalist at the Mississippi Free Press.
(01:52):
Throughout the past two years, he's worked hard to report
accurately on the pandemic and was also on the ground
covering the Black Lives Matter protests and Mrs Sippy. After that,
we'll have a round table with the host of the
podcast In the Thick and legendary journalists in their own right,
Maria you Nojosa and Julio Ricardo Varilla. Maria is a
longtime acre of Latino USA on NPR and also founded
(02:14):
the Futuro Media Group, which produces In the Thick as
well as an amazing program that Julio runs called Latino Rebels.
Go check them out. I can't wait. I mean, who
doesn't think of Maria and Julio when they think of
incredibly inspiring Latinos and journalism. So let's dive in. Ashton
story starts right now. My name is Ashton Pittman, and
(02:37):
I'm calling from Colombia, Mississippi. Great Ashton would thank you
very much for having this conversation with me. You know,
maybe you can tell me a little bit about how
you were inspired to become a journalist. For me, I've
always just loved writing. But I was eleven years old
when nine eleven happened, or I was twelve. I just
turned twelve. I think I was also tenor eleven at
(02:58):
the time of the two thousand election. I think those
two events really inspired a lot of my interest in
current events. And when I was in college, I was
invited in my freshman year to be on the newspaper staff,
and I then decided that I would just go for journalism.
So I joined the journalism program at the University of
Southern Mississippi, and you know, as one of my classes,
(03:19):
we had to write a kind of a news blog,
So I started blogging for the class, and that was
something I just kept doing even after the class was
direct I kept writing on it, and just over the
course of doing that, I broke a few stories with
it that got picked up. And I remember waking up
one day and being absolutely just shocked that Rachel Mattout
(03:40):
of MSNBC had retweeted one of my blog posts. And
so for me, I just realized that with journalism, you know,
I could actually have an impact, and I could have
an impact in a place like Mississippi. The next thing
I knew, I was working for the Jackson Free Press
and you know, just doing these stories on systemic racism
and gender inequality and lgbt Q issues in Mississippi, and
(04:05):
towards the end of tween nineteen, I learned that my editor,
Donna Latch he was working with Kimberly Griffin, who I
am at through the Jackson Free Press because she works there,
that they were starting a new publication, which is the
Mississippi Free Press, and it's a nonprofit it's separate from
the Jackson Free Press. And I was supposed to launch
in the summer of but the pandemic hit and a
(04:27):
few days after its arrival in March, I was talking
to Donna and she told me, Um, you know, I
think we should just go out launch. I think people
need our reporting right now. Within a few days, we
had a makeshift website just several days after the pandemic
drived here. And that's a very short rundown of my
story when it comes to journalism. But that's how I
(04:48):
got to the Mississippi Free Press. That's unbelievable. I wonder
if you know, being in a blue dot in a
rest state as a journalist must have press some challenges too.
So what are some of those challenges you face as
a journalist. Jackson is definitely a lu dot in Mississippi,
you know. For us at the Mississippi Free Press, I
think it's kind of really important to not be partisan.
(05:09):
And what I mean by that is, I don't mean,
you know that we report both sides are equal or
anything like that. What I mean is that is that
our mission isn't about partisanship. We're going to tell the
truth about the people in power right now, all the
people in power Republicans, and we believe in holding the
people in power to account. If it was democrats in power,
we would be holding them accountable too, because the last
(05:31):
time Democrats were in power was twenty years ago. Democrats
controlled the governorship, the House, the Senate of the state,
and yet twenty years ago Mississippi was still dead last,
first in poverty, dead last in education, health care. So
for us, it's a lot more about people than politics.
(05:51):
And you know, I think we get attacked a lot
as being liberals, because that's one of the biggest insult
you can throw out here. But all we're doing is
just asking questions that aditionally haven't been asked. Whether it's
because the older media was more conservative, or it's because
older media was just scared of losing advertisers, I think
all of those things have been a factor. Right, That
(06:11):
was the biggest thing, because the advertisers really kind of
dictated your ability to appeal to whatever market kept a
light on. I think that that was a generation and
where they felt that the audience probably wanted to hear
a certain perspective about America that was not necessarily what
was going on in our neighborhoods. Do you feel like
that those are the stories that you gravitate towards as
(06:33):
a generalist. Yeah, because I think there's a lot of
people in the country that have this idea of Mississippi,
this stereotype. But this is the blackest state in the country.
We have to talk about the people that are underrepresented.
Mississippi has the highest proportion of lgbt Q families that
are raising children of any state in the country inside
Mississippi and outside Mississippi. They've got to stop writing so
(06:56):
many people out of the narrative. So that's one thing
we really want to do, is to make sure that
when we talk about Mississippi we mean Hispanic Mississippians and
Black Mississippians and LGBTQ Mississippians and just so many people
that traditionally have just been left out of any discussion,
all of saying you get introduced this pandemic, how do
things that work changed for you? And how about at
(07:17):
home too? So, like I said, you know, we weren't
planning to launch the Mississippi Free Press until closer to
summer twenty so when the pandemic hit, we all decided,
instead of you know, pushing our launch day back further,
that we were just going to throw up and makeshift
website because we didn't have our website ready yet or anything,
and we were just going to start reporting at home.
I actually have my nine year old grandmother and my mom,
(07:41):
who's sixty four she has diabetes that live with us.
So for me, I locked my house down. Then a
few days after doing that, I start this job. We
set up an office space in my basement. So I'm
spending a lot of time in the house with the
family working. I'm not going out on assignment for a while.
L uh. And that lasted probably through March and April.
(08:04):
But then in May we had the death of George Floyd,
and that's when I started going back out again into
the field, and I started just covering Black Lives Matter
protests because they were just everywhere in Mississippi, and you know,
kind of just navigating, you know, is it's safe to
walk through a crowd with a mask outdoors, because at
the time, I don't think we knew how safe it
was or wasn't outdoors. You know, it's kind of scary
(08:25):
first because I really didn't know, and I didn't want
to bring anything back to my vulnerable family members. Like
everyone else, we were just learning as things developed and
changing our strategies and the way that we handled things
just based on the information we were getting. There's a
ton of misinformation about the pandemic and vaccinations. I'm on
other topics right, So as a journalist, what steps did
(08:47):
you take to address this? It's been a serious challenge.
I think throughout the pandemic, I have tried to do
everything I can to convince as many people as possible
that they should listen to what the medical expects of
saying what the medical science says, you know. I've tried
to learn myself before I speak, to make sure that
what I'm telling people, if they ask me or if
(09:08):
I'm reporting it is correct. And there's been a lot
of frustration for me because I feel like, especially last
year one again I was the only full time reporter.
There was a lot of frustration because I felt like
I was spending so much time making sure that I
knew what I was putting out there was correct, and
then I would log on to Facebook and I would
see a friend or family member spreading, you know, misinformation.
(09:29):
There was a while there where I would spend a
lot of time just going back and forth with people
trying to convince them, But I think eventually I've kind
of got to a place where I can tell the
difference between someone who is misinformed and is willing to
listen and people who are just honestly, I want to
misinform others because there are some people who just have
no interest in learning or being told that they're wrong,
(09:51):
and some of that's for political reasons, and some of
us because conspiracy theories can be really attractive to people.
What did you do personally to take care of your
mental health? Do you think about the frustration or maybe
the energy or the trauma you may be experiencing with
you trying to tell the truth in broadcasting, write things
that are critically important for the community, and then the
(10:15):
backlash of individuals they probably come in after you as well.
So how do you feel about that? I know it's
something a lot of journalists have dealt with. For me,
especially last year when all of this was new and
when there were so few of us in the early days,
and this to be prepressed, there were several times where
I found myself just getting really down and really uh,
(10:35):
not just frustrated, but almost oppressed. I felt like, you know,
I was screaming into a void often, and you know,
there have been times where it's just been it's just heartbreaking.
There was someone that I spent time with over the
past year, arguing with first about masks and later about vaccines,
and I had not heard from him in a while,
but in June I saw tweets start popping up with
(10:59):
a screen shots of a tweet that he had sent
I think in May or sometimes saying he wasn't getting
vaccinated and he didn't trust the vaccine, and people was
sharing this tweet because he had died in the months since.
Just seeing that and realizing this is a man that
I've tried to convince repeatedly, it made me sick. And
then I saw tweets from his daughter, who had turned
(11:20):
out she had also tried and tried to convince him
to get vaccinated. It's heart wrenching, but for me, there's
also this part of it that's like, you know, if
his own daughter couldn't convince him, then I wasn't going
to convince him either. I really had to just kind
of try to separate as much as I can my
emotional and personal investment and try to pour that into
(11:41):
my words instead of letting it just consume me. I
try to just do journalism in a way that my
passion and my feelings about these things come across. People
tell me sometimes I can tell you care from the
way you report these stories, and I try to channel
those feelings into that now, because otherwise they really can
consume you, because it does start to just feel like
(12:02):
you're screaming into a void and all the things you're
doing you're just having no impact. But also, no, that's
not true, because I've had people just out of the
blue tell me, you know, months ago you you wrote something,
or you tweeted something and I got vaccinated because of it,
or I gotta loved when vaccinated. So I know I'm
having an impact. And I try to just remember that
that people all throughout this pandemic have learned things because
(12:25):
of my journalism. And that's what I tell other journalists
that get upset about this, is that I just know
you're having an impact. You're not going to hear from
nine point nine percent at least are the people you
have an impact on and learned something from you. But
you are having an impact, and just hold on to
that when it starts to feel like you're screaming into
the void. How do you feel like we as a
(12:47):
community can support whether it's the amplification, whether it's the
engagement of the subscription, but ultimately, how can we support
some of the positivity that you're spreading with some of
your journalism. As I've said before, we're a nonprofit and
there's no pay walls, so we put our journals out free.
So for us, you know, we rely on donors, small donors.
(13:08):
We actually just yesterday surpassed a thousand unique donors since
we began. That's the number one tangible way to support
what we're doing because it allows us to hire more
journalists and gives the rest of us a little time
to breathe between stories, which I needed really badly last year.
Of course, like you said, amplifying our stories, sharing our stories,
(13:28):
the most gratifying thing and the thing that's helped me
not go into dark places when it just got really
hard has been just all the love from the community.
And by that I mean all across the country. It's
not just Mississippi we have. We have so many supporters
across the nation and some across the world. And I've
had people who have never been in Mississippi tell me
(13:50):
that because of what we do they care about Mississippi now,
or that they read a story about something going on
in Mississippi and it made them examine what's going on
and they're all state are their own hometown. And you know,
that's just as much our mission as Mississippi, because I
think Mississippi in a lot of ways is a mirror
to America. I think it's really easy to dismiss us,
(14:13):
but anything that's happening in Mississippi, I know we're number
fifty and a lot of things, but anything that's happening
in Mississippi is happening in the rest of America at
some point. So it's just really great to see people
learn about Mississippi but also learn about where they're from too.
What messages would you like to leave for those future journalists.
We have enough people that are obsessed with politics and media.
(14:35):
We need more people who have a passion for people.
That's just key to me is put people first and
hold the powerful to account. Don't go into this if
you want to have access to powerful people, because you
can do that. You can have access to powerful people,
but you're not going to do a great journalism. So
people first, that's my main advice is make sure that
you have a passion for people, for telling people's stories
(14:57):
and for uplifting them, not people in power. Amazing, Ashton.
Thank you so much for your time, Appreciate the light
that you brought to this conversation, and excited to support
you in the future to make sure that everyone knows
you know how important it is the role that you
play for the community and for the people that you
speak on behalf of you know, so thank you again,
(15:17):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy we got to
talk to Ashton, not just because he is an amazing journalist,
but because he also gives such important insight to a
part of the country that, as he points out, is
very easily stereotyped. As he mentioned at the end of
his story, there's so much we can learn about Mississippi
(15:39):
and applied to where we live, even outside of Mississippi. Yeah, exactly,
and to our listeners in Mississippi were so stoked that
we got to learn more about your state. I also
really appreciate Ashton's people first approach on his journalism, focusing
on the stories and the storytellers. The only way we're
going to learn true and accurate information about the world
around us is if we back and listen first. And
(16:02):
speaking of listening, when we get back, we'll be doing
the monster match. I'm kidding, you don't have the rights
for that. Uh. We'll talk and learn with Mariajosa and
Julio Ricardo Barrella. We're here today in conversation with Maria
(16:26):
no Josa from Latino USA on NPR and founder of
the Media Group, and Julio Ricardo Barrella, also from Media
and from Latino Rebels. Maria and Julio were so excited
to have you today, really excited for today's conversation, Wilmer,
what if we got cooking up? First of all, welcome,
(16:46):
Thank you so much for being part of Essential Voices. Um,
what are your reactions to Ashton's story, and maybe we'll
start with you Maria, Well, I am like go Ashton.
I mean, for me, he is representative of everything that
gives me hope about journalism, essentially self funded journalism, dedicated
(17:06):
to being of service. Right, so it's not about elevating
himself or about making money, it's about really doing this
essential work. And having been recently in Mississippi and at
the time when it was on fire in terms of
COVID and the Delta variant. Ashton is right, there is
desperate need for trustworthy information in a place like Mississippi.
(17:32):
So I'm just like, go, Ashton, you have just given
me hope. I love that he never stopped, just like
we did, because that's what we do. This is our
job and we love it. And you can feel that
love for being a journalist in Ashton's voice, and I
think that's what kind of makes us understand that we
are essential. M Thank you so much for sharing that mania.
(17:54):
And what about for you, Julio. One of the things
that struck me what money is in and about what
Ashton said was this notion of the mission, that the
mission is bigger than anybody else. And if you think
about it as an individual. As much as people think
about journalism, they think about the bigger voices and the media,
(18:14):
but it's not a lucrative profession. It really isn't, so
it has to be mission driven. And obviously, hearing ashton story,
he's also working in a nonprofit, which is what Maria
founded with Food Little Media eleven years ago. And I've
had the privilege to be working with money Es since
two thousand fourteen and being her co host and In
the Thick and also on Latino USA. And you know,
(18:36):
when we were both listening to this, in my head,
I'm like, this is exactly what we do. Not only
did we send Maria down to Mississippi this year, but
we were there a year after the immigration raids on
the chicken processing plants that Maria was down there, and
we also did a live in the Thick show with
Mississippi voices who were saying the same things that Ashton
(18:57):
was saying. And what's really important is when you look
at a state like Mississippi, it is a media desert.
There's not a lot of opportunities for independent voices to
be there. So anyone that begins to sort of plant
the seeds to inform the community the right way, which
is what Ashton is doing, is adding such immense value.
(19:18):
Because the people we were in Jackson, right, so you know,
we were in the blue dot, and the level of
people in genuine compassion and genuine curiosity for what is
going on and the history of resistance in Mississippi is
all connected. So go Ashton, keep doing it. I love
(19:39):
the fact also that they said, hey, this is free,
we want to give this this is a value to
the community, and that's a lot of what we do
with foot Little Media. We don't want to hide behind
the work that we're doing, so um we believe in
the mission and and it's great to hear someone else
who's essential saying the same thing. Wow, thanks so much
for saying that, Julio, for hearing your thoughts. And you know,
(20:01):
both of you right now are talking about the power
of sharing what might be considered to use your words
from earlier untold stories, which makes Ashton's reporting all the
more crucial in a place that both he and you
both are considering to be more or less a media dessert.
And right now feels like such a unique time for
journalism and especially journalism that centered around storytelling, honoring the
(20:22):
folks for sharing their stories and making sure that the
mic is being given to folks in places like Mississippi.
And both of you have been journalists for a long time,
spearheading incredible journalism and political initiatives by Latin folks and
folks of color for you media you created with Tudo
Media and Latino USA decades ago. But you created these
programs out of a need because they didn't exist from
(20:44):
the beginning, which is just one of many structural issues
when providing ethical and inclusive journalism, especially when this means
not sharing stories by and for black and brown communities.
So for you media and Julio, feel free to jump
in after what was missing from let's, you know, say,
more traditional journalism when Latino USA first started. That's a
(21:07):
deep question. Oh well, let's see. Look, the truth is
is that Latino USA and even my hiring at NPR
as the first Latina correspondent, did not happen in a vacuum.
It did not happen of just like, go, let's make
this happen. It was actually a highly politicized moment. Why
(21:31):
I think it was in the nineteen eighties that actually
Time magazine may have declared it like the decade of
the Hispanic It may have been something to do with
the fact that Ronald Reagan in six did push through
the Immigration Reform and Control Act, which meant that three
million people were able to become legalized right the path
to citizenship. And so a lot of people were like,
(21:52):
oh my god, man, there were all these Latinos, like
there were the here and they're staying, you know, like
what's this and and people like Madam Martin, who was
a generation ahead of me, were like, we have to
be in public media. We have to be in public
media because public media is independent, it's free. We have
to be there. And so she actually went to members
(22:13):
of Congress and was saying, you know, if we don't
have any Latino Latino voices on NPR reporting and it's
you know, the nineteen nineties, we have a problem. So
there has been a long history of activism of Latinos
and Latinos in particular around issues and access to media.
(22:35):
People forget that in the nineteen seventies here in New
York City, the Young Lords and Allies took over Channel thirteen,
the public television station here, because they didn't have any
Latinos on the air. So the thing is that when
we formed Latino USA in n what was really interesting
is that everybody was like, Oh my god, isn't that
(22:56):
cune Oh my god. The Latinos wanted to have like
it'll shove for themselves. Oh that's so adorable, it's probably
gonna last like three years. Oh my god, they're so cute.
I'm wondering what that person looks like that talks like that.
(23:17):
I love that I love that, you know, so, yes,
I was trying to get that going. But anyway, here's
the last laugh. Who's having the last laugh? That the
USA in the year will be on the year thirty
years And we've been documenting this and I guess you know,
if you look at the historical record, what's sad is that,
(23:40):
you know, if we had to fight for visibility in
the eighties and nineties, and at least we achieved some visibility,
what we are now having to do is to deconstruct
a narrative that is false about who we are. So
we went from being invisible to hyper visible. But now
hint is like when, also like when did you cross
(24:03):
the border? And did you climb over the wall? And
is your family MS their team? And are you drug dealers?
And you're just like what you know? And that we
did not create We did not create that. Yeah, wow, Maria,
You're so right. We did not create that narrative. And
something else to add to this creation of the false
(24:23):
latinox narrative and negative media portrayal is the pandemic and
misinformation being spread by so many media sources. You know,
throughout the pandemic, I turned to my favorite what I
consider to be reliable news programs and podcasts, among other
outlets for factual, accurate reporting and journalism based on storytelling
to make sure I knew it was happening, not just
(24:44):
in my community but all around the world. These last
two years have been a time for journalism to be
at its most reliable, and yet the spread of misinformation
has been a blaze like wildfires on Facebook and Twitter
all over the place. That's what's being miss because when
people talk about the disinformation, specifically in communities where Spanish
is the dominant language in this country, and even indigenous languages,
(25:07):
I mean in places like Mississippi where Spanish is a
second language that they're indigenous language, is the lack of
expertise from a journalistic angle in those languages. So everyone
talks about English and misinformation and Facebook and all that
blood YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA, and you know, we're blocking
anti vax videos and everything. And then here I am,
even up here in Medford, Massachusetts. I'm I'm recording out
(25:29):
of Boston. There's an evangelical who has like thousands and
thousands and thousands of followers says things in Spanish about
how the vaccine is gonna like and that's in Spanish,
and no one's checking that. I mean, he's not getting
banned because the gatekeepers are only gonna want to do
what they can do so they can look good and
like news media, but they're not connecting to like underrepresentative communities.
(25:52):
And then we're in a very unfair position because again
going back to how people view us as journalists, we
have as much impact as the Washington Posts, in the
New York Times and other major organizations, but because we
are ethnic media, we're not seen as like the mainstream
when in fact, if you look at the history of
(26:12):
quote unquote ethnic media in the United States, those are
the truth tellers. Frederick Douglas, you know what I mean,
There is a truth here that has always been part
of the American way of journalism, and that's where we
need to elevate and amplify those voices. And don't get
(26:34):
me started about like Miami talk radio and misinformation, because
you want to talk about like all this misinformation about vaccinations,
um and and COVID and Florida. I mean, it's an
industry and no one's checking them. And one of our colleagues,
one of our friends it is not a colleague, but
a good friend. Almost did a really great piece of
advice about that information in Spanish that I always cite
(26:58):
because it's very there's very little report warding about it.
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices. So what were you doing Attromedia with your
journalism to combat this misinformation that was spreading? And let's
start with you media. Very early on, first, I got
COVID in March, so very early on, we were kind
(27:19):
of dealing with it up close and personal, and I
was actually documenting my own story. I was hearing from
my students. I'm a professor at Barnard College, my alma mater,
because you know I'm I'm Mexican. I have sixteen jobs,
so one of them is being a professor. Um, you know,
I was hearing from my students who are first gen
you know, their parents were losing their jobs, they were
(27:41):
getting sick. So we were documenting the reality as it
was happening. Because if the epicenter of the pandemic is
in Queens and the South Bronx, hello, who's there. And
then at the same time, I have to be very honest.
I did have vaccine apprehension at the very beginning, because
I was terrified of feeling the symptoms again, and so
(28:05):
I was very public about what I was experiencing. Now,
of course I'm very lucky. I'm incredibly lucky because I
was like, well, I'm feeling vaccine apprehension. Who can talk
me down to about this? And it's like Dr Fauci.
It's like, okay, get Dr Faucci on the phone, and
so you know, Dr Fauci was able to explain to me.
(28:27):
But I felt it was very important that I do
speak about my apprehension metion that I didn't want to
feel sick again, that oh my god, I was scared.
And then when I didn't go to get the vaccine.
The telling of the story, which was actually very beautiful
because the person who put the shot in my arm
in an old grammar school in the South Bronx, was
(28:51):
a nurse from Ghana, an immigrant just like myself, who
saw that I was crying. I was so scared, and
she just said this is your freedom shot. This is
your freedom shot. And then I just was like, Harriet Tubman,
I don't know it just like it clicked. I was like,
this is freedom and so I documented all of that
(29:12):
in order to be hyper intimate in my life and
in our lives, as you know, many of my colleagues
in because one of our colleagues told the story of
losing three members of her family, indigenous members of her family.
So we have fought that misinformation by doing what we
do all the time, which is telling the truth and
being super transparent and super honest and putting yourself in
(29:34):
the story. Right, I mean, go Aheadlia, Sorry, Yeah, we
were just saying we tell the human stories. I mean,
not only did we look at Queens and the South Bronx,
but like Maria said, the story of Lily and her
family members, you know, out of Chicago, but also you know,
I'm based in Boston, and I noticed that the epicenter was,
you know, right outside of Boston, a city called Chelsea, Massachusetts,
(29:55):
which is literally the most immigrant first yet if you
ever pick a s in Massachusetts of the first generation
immigrant from Central America and Latin America, it's Chelsea, Massachusetts.
Those voices were not being seen in places, they weren't
being spoken to, they weren't given the mic, and we
continue to pursue that, and the only way we kind
(30:16):
of go pass misinformation is by telling those human stories
and saying, you know, this is what people are telling us.
And when you start hearing that this pandemic decimated Latino,
black and brown communities and other underrepresented communities, you have
to ask yourself, why, right now, how did we miss
(30:38):
this story? We didn't miss it. I'm talking about when
you see the major narrative of COVID in the United States,
is it a black and brown issue. It was always
much more privileged because in the space of white male newsrooms,
they don't know those communities. And then when they try
(30:59):
to do it, it was like, let's just parachute in.
We were able because we knew the communities, were able
to report very quickly on it. We need to like
elevate all these voices, whether it's bloggers or people that
are sharing um, you know, factual information on Twitter in
Spanish or another languages. It's our responsibility as journalists to
be like, this matters in my community. I need to
(31:19):
share it. I need to elevate and amplify it because
that's the only way you really find it well. And
you're talking about a narrative shift, right that's occurring across
all media platforms right now. I mean, we talk about
this a law on the show here, It's happening on TV,
it's happening in movies, it's happening in radio and podcasts
and essentially everywhere. We're seeing more folks critically investigating and reconfiguring,
(31:42):
which are both much needed changes. Who gets to tell
whose story and whose stories are being told and uplifted
and why? So my question for both of you is,
what do you think it is about the power of
storytelling and uplifting stories that allows for this narrative shift
to occur? And why is it important to focus on
the story and the storyteller? And Maria, what are your thoughts? Wow?
(32:03):
I mean great, Yeah, I feel like in so many ways,
particularly for Latinos and Latinas, our history in this country
isn't for all intents and purposes invisible. Imagine what would
happen if we were taught that, apart from the indigenous
languages that were spoken here first, that the first language
that we know of other than those indigenous languages that
(32:26):
were spoken was actually Spanish when the Spaniards arrived to St.
Augustine in Florida, and the second settlement also spoke Spanish,
it was Santa Fe. So you know, imagine if we
were actually learning the history less then people might just
(32:47):
be like, Okay, well wow, I guess I have to
kind of rethink American history now if you fast forward
that to what we're doing now in a lot of ways.
I mean, I do feel like I kind of go
into outer space talking about this, because I do because
I'm just like, okay, basically like I'm a democracy junkie, Okay,
Like I believe in representative democracy, which means multi racial,
(33:11):
true representation. And so when I'm asking people their stories
or putting their stories on our air, I feel like
it is an act of saying your voice matters. You
are an essential part of American history. These are not
Lettin Knows. I mean they are, but they're not Latino
stories or immigrants. They're American stories. This is American history.
(33:34):
And so especially for Latinos and Latinez there's a lot
of shame that is still in our communities. I mean,
for example, I was on the air in Detroit earlier
this week, and it's like when I was in Detroit
right before the shutdown, I was hearing from Latinos Mexicans
who were deported from Detroit in the nineteen thirties. So
(33:57):
it's like, K, so we have been here and the
act of telling the stories and asking people to tell
their stories, and how did you get there? How did
you get here? He go motively to me, it is
an act of saying, your voice matters, your story matters,
You matter, um and if I'm lucky, like this morning
when I ended up talking to a Mexican delivery guy
(34:20):
from Puerila for twenty minutes, you know, after boxing, I
was like, bro, if they gave you a chance, you know,
would you He's like, what you know? He thought about it,
and he was like, we see because of course he's
a New Yorker now. And then when I leave him,
you know, he's twenty five years old, the age of
(34:40):
my son, and I can't help me that, mommy. I'm
like patting him on the back and I'm like, went on,
Nico said, you got this, said don't read it. You
may feel invisible, but oh you may. I just saw you.
It's been half an hour talking and you matter and
(35:01):
not to me is again this deeply like, so believe
in your voice, believe in your power. When you can
go register to vote, so we can make sure because
you know not you know, are the second largest voting
block in the United States. Yeah, and there's a major
paradigm shift when it comes to how we kept your stories,
how we developed them, and you know what voice tells it.
And uh, I think that we are at a very
very interesting crossroads when it comes to storytelling. They've understood
(35:25):
that they can no longer do it without us. They
can't just take our stories and then amplify them the
way that they saw it when they encounter it, right,
you know. And I come full circle to to the
sentiment into this great conversation, which I'm very grateful that
you both have been able to really dive so deep
into this because when I think about how it started
(35:46):
in the pandemic, you talk about the critical experience that
we as a community we're going through wasn't really necessarily
manifested in the news. You know, they were reporting at
us in the sense that like, oh, this is the
percentage of latinos SO or African Americans of people of
color that get hit harder with COVID. But the reason
(36:08):
why I wasn't relevant for us, or wasn't even that
much more alarming when it came to when you asked
the Latino, how do you feel about that data, it's
because they never met a Latino that actually told them. Hey,
the reason why it hits us is because you know,
this is how we cook and this is how much
you know, how much more beluptuous my dad is that
he is before his height. I talked about this, you
(36:31):
know a few times on the show, because my dad
got COVID, you know, and he had you know, minor
heart attack um before that, and you know, so put
him in a in a vay vulnerable place and therefore,
you know, he's also not told enough for how beoluptuous
he is, right, So there therefore he's now double the
most vulnerable, right, So you know, and people were wondering,
(36:52):
like why is it hitting Latino's because nobody was saying that.
It was just like, it's hitting Latino's harder, it's hitting
people of color harder, you know what I mean. So
the point of this and the point of bringing this
anecdote is the fact that there was no relativity and
media when it came to how do we get to
our communities? So they are not just informed, but they're
(37:13):
ignited to put it in action, and therefore we got hit.
You know, we got hit many. But there's distrust, and
that's part of what's happened, is that you have you've
isolated us, you've targeted us. You know, we can't even
go to the police because you'll probably take us and
deport us and so everything. You know, do we answer
(37:33):
the census. We don't even know if we should answer
the census, even though you know many of us did,
and we are fully half of the population growth that
happened in the United States over the last ten years
was because of Latinos and Latinos getting it on inside
the country, not immigration. And there's this other thing, which
is really you know, our need among Latinos and Latinos
(37:55):
to be social. We have that too, and sometimes it
can be a little bit um irresponsible every that we're
going to get the family together, come hell or high water,
because we've got this going on, you know, both these
son you know, and we have all lost family because
of that. I lost family because of that, And so
you're right, it's kind of like, how do we meet
(38:17):
people where they are at and take into account, you know,
like the black community, there is distrust about institutions, the government,
and I think more because they don't see themselves in
community with them, right. I mean, like you said, we
don't have enough congressmen, we don't have enough senators, we
don't have enough governors or mayors that really speak to
(38:38):
the community in a more relatable manner. And then when
we do, we put all our hopes on the shoulders
of that person, and no person as fabulous as the
R is going to answer everything to the community because
in the end, you know, the monolith, even though we've
always said we're incredibly diverse and on so many levels,
(38:58):
we're still painted with this broad brush so that you know,
the Latinos have a right. It's the same type of
thing going over and over again, which is why we
got to continue to push through as much as it's frustrating,
but if you're doing it with this mission of saying
there's something bigger here that we're all going to help
push this forward, and you know, we might not get
(39:20):
to the end line, but we're going to pass the baton.
And I think we become more and more informed generation
by generations. So I'm incredibly hopeful to see more awareness
each and every day, and I notice it even in
the workings that we do as journalists, and there has
been a change, but there's a lot more that needs
to get done. Is there a word? Is there a
(39:41):
message you want to give to those future journalists when
it comes to the direction in the tone where we're
going and the things are at staked, and is their
solution s thoughts, you know, advice that that you can
lend to those future voices. Yeah. I mean one of
the things that I wish I told myself as a
young journalist, and I actually learned it from Maria just
(40:02):
and having the privilege of working with her daily is
to bring joy into the into the work that you do.
And I've been really conscious of trying to transmit the
joy to others at Food Poodle, where it's like, yeah,
we all work really hard, it's a grind, but we
love this right and you need to have time to
(40:23):
appreciate what you have, but also to take care of yourself.
And I think one of the things that us living
who have had the privilege of looking at the last
two years in the pandemic and being like, it's okay
to take care of yourself. It's not weakness, You're not
missing out on anything. You can take a pause, that
not every story needs to get covered. We're not competing,
(40:44):
you know. And I think that's that balance of and
finding this ability to see joy in the work that
we do. So I tell people out there be joyful
and take that risk, right. I know it sounds really like, oh, well,
you're the old dude telling us this, you know, blah
blah blah, you know, empty nest, you know, But I
(41:06):
think you have two people here who took risks, you know.
I I saw a need to exactly challenge that narrative
when I was like unemployed ten years ago, to challenge
and and saying I'm done, I'm going to go after
people that are getting this wrong. And that's where Latino
Rebels was born. And all of a sudden, people are like,
oh wait, I don't need to seek permission to call
(41:26):
people out that are misrepresenting our community because these guys
are doing it great, you know. And so I took
that risk. And I've been just so privileged that Maria
saw that as saying, like, you have agency and come
work at VODO. So those are the two things joy
and risk taking. But I know Maria has more informite
(41:49):
wisdom than I do. When it comes to this, I
was gonna say the opposite. My message to jucturalists out
there is actually no wheat did like. This is tough,
and so I need you to be prepared to understand
the toughness of it. And so I do always think
(42:12):
about Frederick Douglas. I to be wells someone who people
don't really know. Her name is Jovita from a Paso,
Mexican American just like me, badass journalists that Texas Rangers
try to shut down her newspaper at the turn of
the sentry Rubens, you know to me understanding that my
(42:33):
work as an American journalist is part of that long
arc of being a journalist of conscience in this country.
So to the young ones, I say me that dolls.
If you see it's all scary, it's all hard, you
know whatever it's if it's an audition or you have
to write your force piece, or it is scary. But
(42:55):
if you are my student, it's because you've pushed yourself.
You know this far, You've got it, you can do it,
and so I'm just like, go keep on going. And
if you look at many of the staff atto media,
they don't come from a kind of traditional you know,
high school college masters that we actually encourage journalists to apply,
(43:18):
especially if they have a kind of non traditional route,
going to community college, starting out as a freelancer, maybe
not having a college degree, not having a master's degree.
That does not stop you from joining a place like
and so own your power, own your voice, get your
peeps behind you, because you're gonna need a crew of peeps.
(43:41):
I had my girls, I had my squad, so and
my husband of course, um and my family. But find
the people and it's for the long haul, So no sin,
be joyful and take that risk. Just keep sitting with
those words from Julio and oh my gosh, what a
(44:03):
powerhouse duo for our round table talk about combating misinformation.
I can't think of two better truth tellers. And I'm
still pinching myself that I got to talk to Maria
and Julio. I'm so glad we could share Ashton's story
with them. It is inspiring right to hear that they
are all on the same page and that Maria had
a recent connection to Mississippi as well. And if you
(44:26):
don't already subscribe, definitely go check out in the Thick
with Maria and Julio one of my favorite podcasts. All right, Mr,
you convinced me I'll subscribe. No, I'm already subscribed. So
next week we'll talk with Essential Work with Christina Franco Abundies,
who runs Casarequitis and Tijuana, a safe and inclusive space
(44:46):
for lgbt Q plus migrants and a silent seekers. And
we'll have a round table discussion with do incredible lawyers
Lindsey Toslowski of the Immigrant Defenders Law Center and Emma
and Dubui Morris of the tren Standard Last Center. Essential
Voices with Wilmer val Drama is produced by me M. R. Raquel,
Alison Shano, and Kevin Retkowski, with production support from associate
(45:10):
producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer Val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by m. R.
Riquel and Sean Tracy and features original music by Will Risotti.
Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice, Ashton Pittman, and
to our thought leaders Maria Yojosa and Julio Ricardo Varilla.
(45:31):
Additional thanks to Gracie Goodman, Alyssa Walker and the Media
Group and Kelsey Jorgenson. This is a CLAIMER and w
V entertainment production in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael
Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from I Heart, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
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