June 15, 2023 • 30 mins
Christopher Rivas, the author of "Brown Enough," joins the show for an enlightening conversation on the issues of inequality, racial injustice, and whitewashing in the Latinx community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to my show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is your girl, madel and you're listening to exactly Amada.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a production of Ihart. You guys already know
that in as usual.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thank you so much for tuning in every Thursday, for
supporting me, for showing me love, and obviously I feel
like I'm always telling me like, oh my god, I
don't forget to give us those five stars. But yes,
go over there and give me those five stars. Show
me that you like the show, show me that we're
doing good. I love to see how we're growing little
by little with my life and my career, which I
(00:34):
try to keep busy for those that know me, and
if you don't know me, you're about to find out.
I have always been very I'm a passionate type of girl.
Anything that I do, I go all in, one hundred
percent like whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And one of the things that I've been very passionate
about my.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Whole life, obviously because I've been black for as long
as I can think of, is about the AffA Latino community.
You guys have heard me be very passionate about my community, racism, colorism,
all the issues that we've had, especially in the entertainment industry,
and just because I'm not talking about it twenty four
to seven, it doesn't mean that it's not on the
top of my mind. It doesn't mean that I'm not
(01:11):
working behind the scenes to continue to make changes.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
It's just that I hate to feel like things are
a wave.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That she's doing it for publicity, she's doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
For cloud, she's doing it. No matter what you do,
people are always gonna talk shit. And if you really
believe in something, you're gonna do it whether people see
you or they don't. So I'm not saying that Alex
can relate to my Afro Latinidad, but.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
But hey, you never know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
You never know.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Maybe deep down inside you feel Afro Latino or maybe
you have an Afro Latino you know, relative, which which
I always say just because you may not be able
to relate one hundred percent, meaning like, Okay, well, I'm
not brown, i'm not dark skin, i'm not black, I'm
not whatever, but maybe you have relative that is and
some ways, somehow we're all connected.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Alex, how you doing, how you're feeling was popped?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I'm doing great? Another interesting, very good topic to cover today,
because as we know, we do that here we go
where other people don't.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Where are we going today?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Today we have Christopher Rivas. He is a multi talented
artist and writer who explores his self doubt, body dysmorphia,
and frustration with the systems that makes life harder for
people of color in his book broad Enough True Stories
about love, violence, the students, loan crisis, Hollywood, race, familia,
(02:39):
and making it in America.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Now, revosn't think that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I don't think that this podcast is long enough to
break down all the issues that you just said in
that one sentence.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh for sure. Now, Rivas acknowledges is Latino heritage with pride,
but he's also frustrated with being defined by it in
a country where white people hold the power and conversations
about race and tend to focus on black and white issues. So,
ladies and gentlemen, not only is he an actor, a playwright,
a podcaster, and PhD candidate. Yeah, yeah, we would like
(03:14):
to welcome once again to the show, Christopher Rivas.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Welcome. What's up, y'all? How you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
How you doing? By the way, he I wish you
girls could see him. He's so cute and then there
so the.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Little curls, you know, really you go everything, Chris, how
you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How's life was good?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Life is good.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I'm in Los Angeles. I got my confecito and some tea.
I got all my liquids. I gotta say off the bat.
You said something in Google in the search probably said
life is harder for bodies of color.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Maybe you said people of color.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I personally, throughout the book and in my life, use
a term called bodies of culture, because I think it
is not our color that whiteness tries to take from us.
It's our culture, it's our sus own, it's our flavor.
It's our culture that makes us unique, not our color.
And whiteness especially loves our culture.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
When they can make money off of it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And so what unites us as bodies under whiteness is
our culture.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I will say that this melanie is expensive, so yes,
they do want some of this, they do want some
of this color. But besides that, I definitely understand how
culture is very heavy, and I really want you to
break it down because in this book of yours, in
your life experience, you taught you touch a lot of
like important points. It's not just about brown people and
(04:43):
the color issue, the cultural issue, but you even spoke
about student loans and this, and you not be that, Lina,
like you went in like in in in this book.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So baca masad, let's go by.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Parts brown enough, right, So first of all, what inspired
you to want to write this book? How long did
it take to be like, okay, you know what I
want to focus on this, like this is what I
feel in my heart that should really be talking about.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I went to see Tanahase Coats.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He's this great writer, thinker at one point, maybe he
still does, had the most read article in the history
of the Internet, and he speaks on white and black
race relations in America. I saw him in this small
library in downtown LA. It came time for questions and
I raised my hand, you know, I said, as a
(05:30):
as a brown kid, Latino kid from Queens, where does
that leave me in the conversation? And he said not
in it? And then and then that was it. That
was the end of the conversation. So I sat down
and I felt like a reprimanded sort of child. And
I went home and I thought about my family, and
I thought about Queens, and I thought about my mom
(05:52):
and my pops, and my friends and my South Asian friends,
and you know, you asked me where I was from earlier,
and I said Queen, right, I didn't say Dominican and Colombian,
because I come from the most diverse place on the planet.
I literally come from culture, like there are more languages
spoken in Queens than any any other place in the world.
(06:13):
That's cool, That's what I grew up in. Like, and
you're telling me we not in it. Everything between white
and black.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Is not in it.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And so then I was inspired to explore what it
means to be in it, what it means to be enough?
What is this beautiful thing called brownness, which is Latini died,
but also so much more, What.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Does being brown mean to you?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
So brown means I don't easily identify with blackness, and
I don't want to identify with whiteness. And I think,
what what whiteness does really well? Is it says what
labels do really well in a white black society. Is
it says, if blackness will accept you, go over there.
Otherwise A lot of people, I think, especially in Latini,
(06:57):
I try and push blackness away to get closer to whiteness,
for its privileges, for its rewards, for its benefits. I
don't want to. And I have found myself in my life.
I think all of us have subtly. When whiteness can
serve you, you jump in that, you go to that line,
right because it's like, got to get this job, trying
(07:18):
to do this thing, you know, trying to move up
in the world, got to want to pay rent, you know, American.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Dreams, which by the way, I do that too, but
I do that with being American. I'm only American when
convenience a blar piki toist be all. You know what
I'm saying, I'm not in one hundred percent, like you know,
it's crazy. We do play those roles. And if you
pay attention to the Latino community, you're right. You know,
whenever you can get closer to the whiteness, you use it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
When convenience.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
It's a tool. And so that's what brownness was for me,
like it was to me.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I was trying to write something for anyone who didn't
clearly identify with blackness as we know it, you know,
the black diaspora.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So how about this, just out of curiosity, when you
have to pick between you know, how they'll give you
these boxes. Then you have to pick between being white,
you know, Asian or whatever, whatever the case may be. Black,
between white and black, what do which box do you check?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
There will never be a box that can contain twenty
four different countries, nationalities, hips, flavors, and curls. Ever, and
yet this country is constantly trying to put you in
a box. Education wants to put you in a box.
Your mother wants to put you in a box. The
people on the street want to put you in a box.
Everybody wants to act like they know who you are.
That's actually why I think gender fluidity is so incredibly
(08:40):
powerful because it says because it says like I can
be more than one thing. Facts, you can be twelve things,
one hundred things. You are uncontainable. I'm trying to live
in a more expansive way. So when I think of brown,
I'm trying to like, live more expansively. It's not this
that yes, no, right, wrong right. We can be so
(09:02):
many things.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
You somewould use that term to be like well as
a brown person or the brown community, we can also
be whatever we want to be.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I am curious to know as far as are you married, single,
what what's happening with you?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I'm not married a part.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He has a partner. Girls, you're late Betro when it
comes to dating because you are so close to this
in this experience. Do you have a preference when it
comes to dating.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I discovered you know who Portrilio Rubro. Yes. So when
I discovered him in college, he changed my life. I
always wanted to be James Bond. James Baum was based
on him.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I've always wanted to be Beyonce, but I haven't gotten
this coming.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I wrote a play about him called The Real
James Bond was Dominican. In my research of this man,
I realized the only dated white women, and he mainly
married white women. I was in the pattern of being
with only white women. This really blew up my world.
I wrote a play, well, please don't hate me for
dating white women, got into the New York Times that
scene I had broken up with my partner.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
To explore why I was with so many white women.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
You know, I had to identify like every movie that
told me that the hand I hold is more valuable
than my own hand. You know, every movie that showed
me a body of culture getting saved by some white
women and their life being better.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Every image, every yeah, every.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Billboard, and so I really, I really took years years
of my life to be like, what is this Am
I attracted to white women?
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Or do I think I should be? In order to
move ahead?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I did that journey publicly New York Times. It's
in the book It's all the things you know to
the play.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I only ask not because I'm trying to be out
of being your business, but basically yes, only because for
the most part, when we talk about and I'm talking
from my personal experience, when we talk about culture, when
you talk about and I say race, because we're talking
about the white, the black, the in between, the brown,
et cetera. So when you're trying to identify what you know,
(11:02):
why am I attracted to these type of people? Even
the toys that you play with? And I'm telling you
because now I have you know, I am a mother
as usual. Everybody you know knows I have two little girls.
And even when you're going to the store right to
look for dolls, you find this big department of blonde
blue hair.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, white babies.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Shout outs to all my you know, listeners that are blonde,
blue hair, and.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Shout out to y'all.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But we would love to also have a really nice
department that is just as you know, whye for that
as well, and to me, when it comes to us
identifying and understanding our culture where we come from visually
accepting us.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It starts from your childhood as well. You know. That's
why there's so much confusion as an adult.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So I just wanted to, you know, bring it back
a little bit to try to understand, you know, growing
up as well. Was that something that you heard in
your household? Were there any you know, or you know,
those little things. Do you think that that also affected
the way that you saw yourself or the way that
you dated.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
First time I brought home a black girl, my my
grandma was furious, you know. So there's that That same
Dominican grandmother told me to pinch my nose every night, you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Know, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes, And if you go like this, it's supposed to
make your nose my mom or get up.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Pin.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, they can you hold it like this when they're
when you're little, and those so they can make your nose, they.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Can sleep like that, you know. So I knew early on.
I also would go to salons with the smell of
burning hair like you know, I knew early on that
we were.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
All striving for something that wasn't us. I also heard
the moments where, you know, people would say, oh, what
are you trying to be white now, which is really
just like a comment on power. Oh, you're trying to
you're trying to have power now, so hurrying me on
as a child. Whether I could articulate it or not,
you have so many lessons and examples that whiteness is
(13:04):
a thing to strive for and that it's related to power.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Wow, that's deep, that is real deep. When you were
talking about violence in your book, what exactly were you.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Referring to, you know, specifically black bodies, but also bodies
of culture.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. How if
you really.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Look at it as a community as.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
A whole, we are so strong. We are a strong community,
and I don't me and.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
In my case because for me, I feel like I
have the best of both worlds and the hardest part
of both worlds because culturally you si Latina, Silminicana, Mikurdura
and in the country where Latinos and many occasions are
not wanted.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Then on top of that, I'm black. So it's like, oh,
we don't want you to read.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So it's like if you're you're too Latina to be
with the black and many occasions and you're too black
to be, you know, or vice versa. It's always been
a thing for me trying to find supposedly where it
is that you belong. So you have to kind of
speak up for your own people to find like, okay,
well then let's do this here, or how do I
become part of both worlds?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's crazy how strong we are.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's crazy how we know of our history, where we
come from, the things that have occurred, all these things,
and we still can't come together to fight the system.
And the only reason why I personally feel that we
can't fight the system. We could, but we won't, is
because they work our minds first. Once you've been able
to conquer the mind, the body will just follow the
(14:30):
division that they've been able to create, you know, between
even our own communities, because it's not even just a
black and white thing within our own community, whether you're Columbian, Peduano, Mexicano,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
There is still that whiteness that that whitewash of Josma
Blan can do.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I have better hair than you, either da da da,
there's always the preference La of the family, or the
darker you are, the the you know, the the more
your features are, the texture of your hair, all these
are the things they've even been able to figure way
how to divide us within our own community, which is
the worst part because it's like, yeah, we're just talking
(15:07):
about oh, you know, the whites are against us, but
we're against each other.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So it's like, do you feel that at any point.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
This racism, colorism, or classism, or any of the sism.
Do you think that at any point we'll be able
to surpass this? Will this last forever? Will this generation
be able to break that curse? Will there be anything
in your mind that we'll be able to do to
make a difference. Because we're not the first ones to
speak up, we're not the first leaders, we're not the
(15:37):
first ones that are like, let's take control, let's do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Will that ever happen in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I think it will. Will it happen in my lifetime?
I don't know, the world is actually getting browner, and
so eventually it's gonna be hard to at some point,
you know, it's gonna be hard to hate, but we'll
find ways to hate because hate is a more powerful
energy to gather around in love. You must hate something
(16:04):
to overthrow, you know, like you must galvanize yourself with
an energy in order to go get the power. This
is one of the things that blackness has done beautifully.
They said, you black, you here, you fail, come here
like I got you powering numbers.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Blackness has done a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful job at that.
Latinidd has not Hollywood example, It's like a show like
Go to Eat The Chronicles gets made and all the
Columbians are like, where's my show? The Dominicans get their show,
A show like Heenthi five gets made, and all the
you know, Puerto Ricans are like, where's my show?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
The Mexicans got a show. Everyone's sort of like where's
my shot.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I hope we arrive at a place with Latinidad where
we realize it's not zero sum, right. If Amara wins,
we all win. If Rivas wins, we all win. Like everybody,
a show for you is a show for everybody. We
need to keep lifting each other up, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I'm going to tell you why that part too, also,
because if I win you win.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If you win, I win.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But the people that do make it, the people that
do get that little bit. Because here's the thing. Every
if you go to Hollywood, obviously, and if you don't
go to Hollywood, you got it on Instagram, there's more
artists and fans and actors and than there is fans.
Everybody's an actor, everybody's a rapper, everybody's a model, everybody's
a dancer. Now since TikTok, it's like everybody knows how
to do everything right, and there's like there's more y'all
(17:33):
now than there is fans. Those that finally do make
it in that small gap of Hollywood that you do
get known coming from a Latino background, it is your duty.
It is your responsibility. I'm sorry if you hate me
for it. You got to bring somebody up as well
when it bring When I say bring somebody else up,
it could be the smallest thing of at some point
(17:55):
if you can be like yo, support this actor or
support this been from your social media platform, whatever it is.
But for the most part, we don't do that. Once
you get up there, it's all about you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
How are we supposed to Okay, that I feel that
the American African American community has also done greatly. They'll
bring somebody else up, whether it is that you're an athlete,
whether it is that you sing r and b alda.
Everybody is like, let's collapse, let's do this. But when
it comes to the Latino community is like yao, Lae
(18:27):
is me. It's all about me, and you don't figure
out ways to bring So how are we supposed to grow?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
How are we supposed to grow? Speak up?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And then because it's been so hard for our community
to finally be placed in certain and then we feel like,
let me not talk too much, let me not say
too much, because I don't want to mess it up
for me. You know what I'm saying, Like I already
made it here. You know, y'all gotta figure it out
on your own. And so say, that's why for me
as an activist for the Affilatino community. And when I
say the Alfilatino community, I mean so la Gale, anybody
(18:55):
that's black, anybody who's as dark as me, who's lighter
than me, who has a black mother or father there
it is important for me to be like, you have
to use your platform to speak up, you know, and
bring somebody else.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Up, Like why are we so stingy?
Speaker 5 (19:08):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I feel that other cultures aren't necessarily like that, they
support each other more than we do. Why do you
think is Zachamo that like it's like, oh, no, you're
Puerto Rican, Oh you're Dominican, or you're Cuban, or you're
Colombian or.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Guy at that I got. We're Latinos and we're trying
to make it just like what do you think the
issue is here? Why can't we connect?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Do we think it's it's scarcity.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
There's two ways to live in this life, abundance and
generosity or scarcity and fear.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
And I think Latini's are rightfully so.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I think whiteness has done this to us. Colonialism has
done this to us, and we need to remember there's.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Enough food at the table.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And the way that happens is, you know, slow and steady,
like amar, you do that, lift someone up, you know,
put someone on here, like give someone they shot. You know,
nothing changes until the people's signing checks look like us,
sound like us, come from where we come from, you know,
show that the table has enough food for all of us.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I feel very proud of myself for a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
A lot of times I'll ask me, what do you
feel the proudest of the things that you've accomplished, And
I honestly would say that one of the things I
feel the most proud of is the fact that through
my activism and through you know, just being who I
am and me using my platform, I have been able
to bring awareness to my community to the issues that
happened in my community, to bring light. And it was
(20:37):
crazy to me when I, you know, first came out
and spoke about it, and they're like Afro Latinos, We've
never heard of this, what is it?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I mean, you got to be kidding me, Like, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I just feel proud to know that my work has
been able to make somewhat of a difference in my generation.
And I think that what you're doing as well, whether
you do it through music, whether you do it you know,
through book, whether you do it through social media, whatever,
the fact that you're taking action to do something that
is going to make a difference in our world and
(21:08):
our generation. In Nuestra Puzdura, it's something that we should
thank you for. We should have more people like yourself
and if no one is thinking you enough for what
the work that you're putting in, I personally want to
thank you because we need more people like you. My
daughters aren't, you know, as dark as I am. They're
way lighter than I am. And I always said that
it is important for me to speak up because one
(21:29):
day when I have children, I don't know what their
future looks like, you know, and in the world that's
becoming more brown, we need more brown people to say something,
and we have a lot of people who are just
on mute, you know, waiting for someone like you to
speak up. So something that you also hit was you
were talking about student loans.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Education is widely valuable, whether it's education in the streets,
whether it's education from your parents, whether it's education from
an institution. The American dream, which I think is being
challenged and changed, says that go to the best school,
you know, come out like I was the first in
my family to go to like an it's a real institution.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
My parents didn't go to college, right, but it felt
right like they were like I get to my kid
gets to follow their dreams, go to school. Oh my gosh,
let's just sign the dotted line, and then we are
punished for doing the thing the dream told us to do.
You know, when I get out of school six months
later and my student loan payment is twice my rent,
and I'm trying to be an artist, and I think
(22:32):
about how many people don't get to be what they
wanted to be because they got to work three, four
or five jobs. I got to be a barista and
then walk the dogs and then babysit, and that because
I got to just pay my student loans, I feel
like I'm the dummy, like I made the mistake. And
so every day that I wake up, even with my
(22:52):
student loans, I feel incredibly blessed that I was able
to Maguiver maneuver Machavelli scheme my way. You think I
got a PhD. Because I want more education. I needed
a way to bypass student loans. So I discovered this
program in Switzerland where I only have to go in
this summer, and so I was like, I'm going to
(23:12):
buy time. I know one day I'm gonna be able
to afford these I'm just going to keep buying time.
I'm going to keep buying time. You know, I wouldn't
let it break me. And then I think that student
loans is directly tied to this myth of the American dream,
what I call the American dream. That's the chapter. It's
a con. It's like, it's a con and it sells
you this idea of movement and perfection, but it's selling
(23:34):
it to a very specific type of person. You know,
a white person, a white person who even today is
bribing universities and giving them five hundred and fifty thousand
dollars to get their kids into school that the kids
don't even want to go to, and then they still
have to pay tuition. I'm anti anti yam, I'm anti scam,
anti asking young people who you didn't give them any
(23:57):
real educational financial education. You're giving them thousands of dollars
without proper information. Like I'm into vocational schools. I think
there's other ways. I think there's certain careers where you
might not need a traditional college.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
He is speaking truth, he is preaching fingers preach.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, I'll tell you this, I did the whole
student loan things and being don't judge me, and if
you're doing them, this.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Is exactly I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Let me tell you, I don't want to say that
my generation is a dumb generation because we're not better here.
Are we less educated in many things than our past
you know generation.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
To me and my eyes, yes, why because we've gotten
real comfortable. A lot of you don't even know how
to spell no more, you got this damn spell check.
I mean overall, it's like.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You know, we have become so comfortable with technology, the
internet and everything else.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I feel that this is a world scam for.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The next generation of mass and stupid, more dumb than
the past because with all due respect for all of them,
they don't respect and everybody feels offriended those that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Are out there, you know, showing your toes on the
only fans.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Now you made this income and now you don't feel
the need to find any type of education for what
you see. What I'm saying, it's like I think that
education is key, is important. That's how I feel about it.
I really feel that education should be free. That's just me,
because it's a way of making our country a better
place if everybody wanted to study what they really want.
My mom wanted to be a teacher and study and
(25:32):
go to school, but she comes from poverty. She was
never able to have. You know, my grandparents take her
pay for her college. She ended up being a cook,
you know. I mean she cooks fantastic, but that really
wasn't her dream. And like that, there's many people that
have so much potential that if they were just given
a small opportunity, God knows what they could have been,
you know, made out of themselves. So I really really
(25:54):
wish and pray that at some point.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Amazing and it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know what, everybody gets to go to college for free,
everybody free education. I know that I'm dreaming very high,
but anything is possible, and that would be so great.
I really feel inspired and motivated when I speak to
someone that knows their shit. That's that's you know, inspired, motivated, driven,
you know, that's passionate.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I really love this. But if you had that the
last tip of I'm gonna stay or take away, what
would you leave the people with?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
My invitation to everyone listening is there is enough food
at the table. If you have one mantra in your
life this week or today, try and operate from there
is enough. When you see your community winning, it means
you are winning. And I promise you if you shift
your mind in that direction, you will you will breathe
(26:49):
a little easier, and you will see more wins in
your life. There is enough food at the table for
all of us. Whiteness is the thing that's trying to
tell you to fight a scrap, to use your nails,
to keep other people down. We have to unplug from
whiteness by any means necessary. And one of the ways
we do that is we operate from abundant.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Wow, that was deep in a matter of term, will
be like, oh yes, that being stingy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
What the hell? Don't be stingy. Everybody gotta eat. You
know what I'm saying, put in the work. And if
you find somebody else, drag the ass long too.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
If you know somebody that's talented, somebody that's good at
what they're doing, you see them struggling. And you're in
a in a place where, you know what I'm saying,
a place of power, in a place where you can
make a difference. Gon Yo, just be like, oh Amy,
put a referral, listen, alex yo, he's dope, he's questa.
It doesn't cost you, nothing is not gonna take away
from you. It's only but gonna build you and build
(27:44):
your community and build your people. And if God forbid,
this is my takeaway. And if God forbid you know,
one of youall jobs. If you do good for someone else,
I promise you that that person will be there or
what at least see soona persona you know soon with
a good heart. Be like yo, I remember when I
was in a bad place a homeboy. They you know
(28:05):
what I'm saying, Let me, let me help. So at
the un this is a ladder. Stop stop feeling.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Like it's only about you, like oh my god, I
get Don't be like that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And besides, karma is a bitch, and karma can also
be real good to you if you do things right.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So I hope you like my takeaway because you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
After he gave it so smoothly, I had to be
exactly I'm out of and give you the business. Christopher muchisi,
my grass I, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm gonna try to inspire some people right now, because
this is what the show is about.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I always want people to take away something at the
end of the day that can inspire you, motivate you,
maybe make you look at things differently. Maybe someone who's
listening now be like, you know, damn, I really hadn't
thought about it this way. And now that he said that,
like you know, I feel like, you know, I'm going
to do something about it. And that's what we need.
We need more people to be vocal about it and
(28:56):
make a difference. And you definitely are. Where can we
purchase your book anywhere?
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Anywhere?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
You get your books at the Amazon, the bookshop, the
Bars and Nobles, the books and books.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
If you're in Miami, you have.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Money, you got the books.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Are You're aw.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Listen by the way, not for nothing. But I'm an
audiobook type of girl too, So eventually.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
The audiobook I narrated it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
He did the audiobook.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Damn, I don memo. He's trying to make you get this.
You have no excuses if you don't. If you don't
want to read it, you could just hear it. The
point is check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I'm Alex.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Thank you so much as usual for joining in a
little person Gangganggang. You already know what it is, guys,
must I say thank you, thank you, thank you once
again for listening to exactly Amada. Find me at all
my social media platforms at Amada or exactly Amada, make
sure to find me on YouTube. Catch my show by
searching for Michael through that podcast and.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Clicking on exactly Amada.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I remember that this has been a production of Ihearts
Michael through that podcast network. For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to my show.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is your girl, madel and you're listening to exactly Amada.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is a production of Ihart. You guys already know
that in as usual.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thank you so much for tuning in every Thursday, for
supporting me, for showing me love, and obviously I feel
like I'm always telling me like, oh my god, I
don't forget to give us those five stars. But yes,
go over there and give me those five stars. Show
me that you like the show, show me that we're
doing good. I love to see how we're growing little
by little with my life and my career, which I
(00:34):
try to keep busy for those that know me, and
if you don't know me, you're about to find out.
I have always been very I'm a passionate type of girl.
Anything that I do, I go all in, one hundred
percent like whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
And one of the things that I've been very passionate
about my.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Whole life, obviously because I've been black for as long
as I can think of, is about the AffA Latino community.
You guys have heard me be very passionate about my community, racism, colorism,
all the issues that we've had, especially in the entertainment industry,
and just because I'm not talking about it twenty four
to seven, it doesn't mean that it's not on the
top of my mind. It doesn't mean that I'm not
(01:11):
working behind the scenes to continue to make changes.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
It's just that I hate to feel like things are
a wave.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That she's doing it for publicity, she's doing it.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
For cloud, she's doing it. No matter what you do,
people are always gonna talk shit. And if you really
believe in something, you're gonna do it whether people see
you or they don't. So I'm not saying that Alex
can relate to my Afro Latinidad, but.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
But hey, you never know.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
You never know.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Maybe deep down inside you feel Afro Latino or maybe
you have an Afro Latino you know, relative, which which
I always say just because you may not be able
to relate one hundred percent, meaning like, Okay, well, I'm
not brown, i'm not dark skin, i'm not black, I'm
not whatever, but maybe you have relative that is and
some ways, somehow we're all connected.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Alex, how you doing, how you're feeling was popped?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I'm doing great? Another interesting, very good topic to cover today,
because as we know, we do that here we go
where other people don't.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Where are we going today?
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Today we have Christopher Rivas. He is a multi talented
artist and writer who explores his self doubt, body dysmorphia,
and frustration with the systems that makes life harder for
people of color in his book broad Enough True Stories
about love, violence, the students, loan crisis, Hollywood, race, familia,
(02:39):
and making it in America.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Now, revosn't think that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I don't think that this podcast is long enough to
break down all the issues that you just said in
that one sentence.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Oh for sure. Now, Rivas acknowledges is Latino heritage with pride,
but he's also frustrated with being defined by it in
a country where white people hold the power and conversations
about race and tend to focus on black and white issues. So,
ladies and gentlemen, not only is he an actor, a playwright,
a podcaster, and PhD candidate. Yeah, yeah, we would like
(03:14):
to welcome once again to the show, Christopher Rivas.
Speaker 5 (03:17):
Welcome. What's up, y'all? How you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
How you doing? By the way, he I wish you
girls could see him. He's so cute and then there
so the.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Little curls, you know, really you go everything, Chris, how
you doing?
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How's life was good?
Speaker 5 (03:34):
Life is good.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
I'm in Los Angeles. I got my confecito and some tea.
I got all my liquids. I gotta say off the bat.
You said something in Google in the search probably said
life is harder for bodies of color.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
Maybe you said people of color.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I personally, throughout the book and in my life, use
a term called bodies of culture, because I think it
is not our color that whiteness tries to take from us.
It's our culture, it's our sus own, it's our flavor.
It's our culture that makes us unique, not our color.
And whiteness especially loves our culture.
Speaker 5 (04:13):
When they can make money off of it.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
And so what unites us as bodies under whiteness is
our culture.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I will say that this melanie is expensive, so yes,
they do want some of this, they do want some
of this color. But besides that, I definitely understand how
culture is very heavy, and I really want you to
break it down because in this book of yours, in
your life experience, you taught you touch a lot of
like important points. It's not just about brown people and
(04:43):
the color issue, the cultural issue, but you even spoke
about student loans and this, and you not be that, Lina,
like you went in like in in in this book.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So baca masad, let's go by.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Parts brown enough, right, So first of all, what inspired
you to want to write this book? How long did
it take to be like, okay, you know what I
want to focus on this, like this is what I
feel in my heart that should really be talking about.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I went to see Tanahase Coats.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
He's this great writer, thinker at one point, maybe he
still does, had the most read article in the history
of the Internet, and he speaks on white and black
race relations in America. I saw him in this small
library in downtown LA. It came time for questions and
I raised my hand, you know, I said, as a
(05:30):
as a brown kid, Latino kid from Queens, where does
that leave me in the conversation? And he said not
in it? And then and then that was it. That
was the end of the conversation. So I sat down
and I felt like a reprimanded sort of child. And
I went home and I thought about my family, and
I thought about Queens, and I thought about my mom
(05:52):
and my pops, and my friends and my South Asian friends,
and you know, you asked me where I was from earlier,
and I said Queen, right, I didn't say Dominican and Colombian,
because I come from the most diverse place on the planet.
I literally come from culture, like there are more languages
spoken in Queens than any any other place in the world.
(06:13):
That's cool, That's what I grew up in. Like, and
you're telling me we not in it. Everything between white
and black.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Is not in it.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
And so then I was inspired to explore what it
means to be in it, what it means to be enough?
What is this beautiful thing called brownness, which is Latini died,
but also so much more, What.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Does being brown mean to you?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
So brown means I don't easily identify with blackness, and
I don't want to identify with whiteness. And I think,
what what whiteness does really well? Is it says what
labels do really well in a white black society. Is
it says, if blackness will accept you, go over there.
Otherwise A lot of people, I think, especially in Latini,
(06:57):
I try and push blackness away to get closer to whiteness,
for its privileges, for its rewards, for its benefits. I
don't want to. And I have found myself in my life.
I think all of us have subtly. When whiteness can
serve you, you jump in that, you go to that line,
right because it's like, got to get this job, trying
(07:18):
to do this thing, you know, trying to move up
in the world, got to want to pay rent, you know, American.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Dreams, which by the way, I do that too, but
I do that with being American. I'm only American when
convenience a blar piki toist be all. You know what
I'm saying, I'm not in one hundred percent, like you know,
it's crazy. We do play those roles. And if you
pay attention to the Latino community, you're right. You know,
whenever you can get closer to the whiteness, you use it.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
When convenience.
Speaker 5 (07:50):
It's a tool. And so that's what brownness was for me,
like it was to me.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I was trying to write something for anyone who didn't
clearly identify with blackness as we know it, you know,
the black diaspora.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So how about this, just out of curiosity, when you
have to pick between you know, how they'll give you
these boxes. Then you have to pick between being white,
you know, Asian or whatever, whatever the case may be. Black,
between white and black, what do which box do you check?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
There will never be a box that can contain twenty
four different countries, nationalities, hips, flavors, and curls. Ever, and
yet this country is constantly trying to put you in
a box. Education wants to put you in a box.
Your mother wants to put you in a box. The
people on the street want to put you in a box.
Everybody wants to act like they know who you are.
That's actually why I think gender fluidity is so incredibly
(08:40):
powerful because it says because it says like I can
be more than one thing. Facts, you can be twelve things,
one hundred things. You are uncontainable. I'm trying to live
in a more expansive way. So when I think of brown,
I'm trying to like, live more expansively. It's not this
that yes, no, right, wrong right. We can be so
(09:02):
many things.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
You somewould use that term to be like well as
a brown person or the brown community, we can also
be whatever we want to be.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
I am curious to know as far as are you married, single,
what what's happening with you?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I'm not married a part.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
He has a partner. Girls, you're late Betro when it
comes to dating because you are so close to this
in this experience. Do you have a preference when it
comes to dating.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I discovered you know who Portrilio Rubro. Yes. So when
I discovered him in college, he changed my life. I
always wanted to be James Bond. James Baum was based
on him.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I've always wanted to be Beyonce, but I haven't gotten
this coming.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
So I wrote a play about him called The Real
James Bond was Dominican. In my research of this man,
I realized the only dated white women, and he mainly
married white women. I was in the pattern of being
with only white women. This really blew up my world.
I wrote a play, well, please don't hate me for
dating white women, got into the New York Times that
scene I had broken up with my partner.
Speaker 5 (10:04):
To explore why I was with so many white women.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
You know, I had to identify like every movie that
told me that the hand I hold is more valuable
than my own hand. You know, every movie that showed
me a body of culture getting saved by some white
women and their life being better.
Speaker 5 (10:21):
Every image, every yeah, every.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Billboard, and so I really, I really took years years
of my life to be like, what is this Am
I attracted to white women?
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Or do I think I should be? In order to
move ahead?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And I did that journey publicly New York Times. It's
in the book It's all the things you know to
the play.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I only ask not because I'm trying to be out
of being your business, but basically yes, only because for
the most part, when we talk about and I'm talking
from my personal experience, when we talk about culture, when
you talk about and I say race, because we're talking
about the white, the black, the in between, the brown,
et cetera. So when you're trying to identify what you know,
(11:02):
why am I attracted to these type of people? Even
the toys that you play with? And I'm telling you
because now I have you know, I am a mother
as usual. Everybody you know knows I have two little girls.
And even when you're going to the store right to
look for dolls, you find this big department of blonde
blue hair.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know, white babies.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Shout outs to all my you know, listeners that are blonde,
blue hair, and.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Shout out to y'all.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
But we would love to also have a really nice
department that is just as you know, whye for that
as well, and to me, when it comes to us
identifying and understanding our culture where we come from visually
accepting us.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It starts from your childhood as well. You know. That's
why there's so much confusion as an adult.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
So I just wanted to, you know, bring it back
a little bit to try to understand, you know, growing
up as well. Was that something that you heard in
your household? Were there any you know, or you know,
those little things. Do you think that that also affected
the way that you saw yourself or the way that
you dated.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
First time I brought home a black girl, my my
grandma was furious, you know. So there's that That same
Dominican grandmother told me to pinch my nose every night, you.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Know, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yes, And if you go like this, it's supposed to
make your nose my mom or get up.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Pin.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, they can you hold it like this when they're
when you're little, and those so they can make your nose, they.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
Can sleep like that, you know. So I knew early on.
I also would go to salons with the smell of
burning hair like you know, I knew early on that
we were.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
All striving for something that wasn't us. I also heard
the moments where, you know, people would say, oh, what
are you trying to be white now, which is really
just like a comment on power. Oh, you're trying to
you're trying to have power now, so hurrying me on
as a child. Whether I could articulate it or not,
you have so many lessons and examples that whiteness is
(13:04):
a thing to strive for and that it's related to power.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Wow, that's deep, that is real deep. When you were
talking about violence in your book, what exactly were you.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Referring to, you know, specifically black bodies, but also bodies
of culture.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I think it's crazy. I think it's crazy. How if
you really.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Look at it as a community as.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
A whole, we are so strong. We are a strong community,
and I don't me and.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
In my case because for me, I feel like I
have the best of both worlds and the hardest part
of both worlds because culturally you si Latina, Silminicana, Mikurdura
and in the country where Latinos and many occasions are
not wanted.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Then on top of that, I'm black. So it's like, oh,
we don't want you to read.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So it's like if you're you're too Latina to be
with the black and many occasions and you're too black
to be, you know, or vice versa. It's always been
a thing for me trying to find supposedly where it
is that you belong. So you have to kind of
speak up for your own people to find like, okay,
well then let's do this here, or how do I
become part of both worlds?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It's crazy how strong we are.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's crazy how we know of our history, where we
come from, the things that have occurred, all these things,
and we still can't come together to fight the system.
And the only reason why I personally feel that we
can't fight the system. We could, but we won't, is
because they work our minds first. Once you've been able
to conquer the mind, the body will just follow the
(14:30):
division that they've been able to create, you know, between
even our own communities, because it's not even just a
black and white thing within our own community, whether you're Columbian, Peduano, Mexicano,
et cetera.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
There is still that whiteness that that whitewash of Josma
Blan can do.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I have better hair than you, either da da da,
there's always the preference La of the family, or the
darker you are, the the you know, the the more
your features are, the texture of your hair, all these
are the things they've even been able to figure way
how to divide us within our own community, which is
the worst part because it's like, yeah, we're just talking
(15:07):
about oh, you know, the whites are against us, but
we're against each other.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
So it's like, do you feel that at any point.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
This racism, colorism, or classism, or any of the sism.
Do you think that at any point we'll be able
to surpass this? Will this last forever? Will this generation
be able to break that curse? Will there be anything
in your mind that we'll be able to do to
make a difference. Because we're not the first ones to
speak up, we're not the first leaders, we're not the
(15:37):
first ones that are like, let's take control, let's do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Will that ever happen in your eyes?
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I think it will. Will it happen in my lifetime?
I don't know, the world is actually getting browner, and
so eventually it's gonna be hard to at some point,
you know, it's gonna be hard to hate, but we'll
find ways to hate because hate is a more powerful
energy to gather around in love. You must hate something
(16:04):
to overthrow, you know, like you must galvanize yourself with
an energy in order to go get the power. This
is one of the things that blackness has done beautifully.
They said, you black, you here, you fail, come here
like I got you powering numbers.
Speaker 6 (16:19):
Blackness has done a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful job at that.
Latinidd has not Hollywood example, It's like a show like
Go to Eat The Chronicles gets made and all the
Columbians are like, where's my show? The Dominicans get their show,
A show like Heenthi five gets made, and all the
you know, Puerto Ricans are like, where's my show?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
The Mexicans got a show. Everyone's sort of like where's
my shot.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I hope we arrive at a place with Latinidad where
we realize it's not zero sum, right. If Amara wins,
we all win. If Rivas wins, we all win. Like everybody,
a show for you is a show for everybody. We
need to keep lifting each other up, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
And I'm going to tell you why that part too, also,
because if I win you win.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
If you win, I win.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
But the people that do make it, the people that
do get that little bit. Because here's the thing. Every
if you go to Hollywood, obviously, and if you don't
go to Hollywood, you got it on Instagram, there's more
artists and fans and actors and than there is fans.
Everybody's an actor, everybody's a rapper, everybody's a model, everybody's
a dancer. Now since TikTok, it's like everybody knows how
to do everything right, and there's like there's more y'all
(17:33):
now than there is fans. Those that finally do make
it in that small gap of Hollywood that you do
get known coming from a Latino background, it is your duty.
It is your responsibility. I'm sorry if you hate me
for it. You got to bring somebody up as well
when it bring When I say bring somebody else up,
it could be the smallest thing of at some point
(17:55):
if you can be like yo, support this actor or
support this been from your social media platform, whatever it is.
But for the most part, we don't do that. Once
you get up there, it's all about you.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
How are we supposed to Okay, that I feel that
the American African American community has also done greatly. They'll
bring somebody else up, whether it is that you're an athlete,
whether it is that you sing r and b alda.
Everybody is like, let's collapse, let's do this. But when
it comes to the Latino community is like yao, Lae
(18:27):
is me. It's all about me, and you don't figure
out ways to bring So how are we supposed to grow?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
How are we supposed to grow? Speak up?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And then because it's been so hard for our community
to finally be placed in certain and then we feel like,
let me not talk too much, let me not say
too much, because I don't want to mess it up
for me. You know what I'm saying, Like I already
made it here. You know, y'all gotta figure it out
on your own. And so say, that's why for me
as an activist for the Affilatino community. And when I
say the Alfilatino community, I mean so la Gale, anybody
(18:55):
that's black, anybody who's as dark as me, who's lighter
than me, who has a black mother or father there
it is important for me to be like, you have
to use your platform to speak up, you know, and
bring somebody else.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Up, Like why are we so stingy?
Speaker 5 (19:08):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I feel that other cultures aren't necessarily like that, they
support each other more than we do. Why do you
think is Zachamo that like it's like, oh, no, you're
Puerto Rican, Oh you're Dominican, or you're Cuban, or you're
Colombian or.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Guy at that I got. We're Latinos and we're trying
to make it just like what do you think the
issue is here? Why can't we connect?
Speaker 5 (19:37):
Do we think it's it's scarcity.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
There's two ways to live in this life, abundance and
generosity or scarcity and fear.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
And I think Latini's are rightfully so.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I think whiteness has done this to us. Colonialism has
done this to us, and we need to remember there's.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Enough food at the table.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
And the way that happens is, you know, slow and steady,
like amar, you do that, lift someone up, you know,
put someone on here, like give someone they shot. You know,
nothing changes until the people's signing checks look like us,
sound like us, come from where we come from, you know,
show that the table has enough food for all of us.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I feel very proud of myself for a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
A lot of times I'll ask me, what do you
feel the proudest of the things that you've accomplished, And
I honestly would say that one of the things I
feel the most proud of is the fact that through
my activism and through you know, just being who I
am and me using my platform, I have been able
to bring awareness to my community to the issues that
happened in my community, to bring light. And it was
(20:37):
crazy to me when I, you know, first came out
and spoke about it, and they're like Afro Latinos, We've
never heard of this, what is it?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I mean, you got to be kidding me, Like, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I just feel proud to know that my work has
been able to make somewhat of a difference in my generation.
And I think that what you're doing as well, whether
you do it through music, whether you do it you know,
through book, whether you do it through social media, whatever,
the fact that you're taking action to do something that
is going to make a difference in our world and
(21:08):
our generation. In Nuestra Puzdura, it's something that we should
thank you for. We should have more people like yourself
and if no one is thinking you enough for what
the work that you're putting in, I personally want to
thank you because we need more people like you. My
daughters aren't, you know, as dark as I am. They're
way lighter than I am. And I always said that
it is important for me to speak up because one
(21:29):
day when I have children, I don't know what their
future looks like, you know, and in the world that's
becoming more brown, we need more brown people to say something,
and we have a lot of people who are just
on mute, you know, waiting for someone like you to
speak up. So something that you also hit was you
were talking about student loans.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Education is widely valuable, whether it's education in the streets,
whether it's education from your parents, whether it's education from
an institution. The American dream, which I think is being
challenged and changed, says that go to the best school,
you know, come out like I was the first in
my family to go to like an it's a real institution.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
My parents didn't go to college, right, but it felt
right like they were like I get to my kid
gets to follow their dreams, go to school. Oh my gosh,
let's just sign the dotted line, and then we are
punished for doing the thing the dream told us to do.
You know, when I get out of school six months
later and my student loan payment is twice my rent,
and I'm trying to be an artist, and I think
(22:32):
about how many people don't get to be what they
wanted to be because they got to work three, four
or five jobs. I got to be a barista and
then walk the dogs and then babysit, and that because
I got to just pay my student loans, I feel
like I'm the dummy, like I made the mistake. And
so every day that I wake up, even with my
(22:52):
student loans, I feel incredibly blessed that I was able
to Maguiver maneuver Machavelli scheme my way. You think I
got a PhD. Because I want more education. I needed
a way to bypass student loans. So I discovered this
program in Switzerland where I only have to go in
this summer, and so I was like, I'm going to
(23:12):
buy time. I know one day I'm gonna be able
to afford these I'm just going to keep buying time.
I'm going to keep buying time. You know, I wouldn't
let it break me. And then I think that student
loans is directly tied to this myth of the American dream,
what I call the American dream. That's the chapter. It's
a con. It's like, it's a con and it sells
you this idea of movement and perfection, but it's selling
(23:34):
it to a very specific type of person. You know,
a white person, a white person who even today is
bribing universities and giving them five hundred and fifty thousand
dollars to get their kids into school that the kids
don't even want to go to, and then they still
have to pay tuition. I'm anti anti yam, I'm anti scam,
anti asking young people who you didn't give them any
(23:57):
real educational financial education. You're giving them thousands of dollars
without proper information. Like I'm into vocational schools. I think
there's other ways. I think there's certain careers where you
might not need a traditional college.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
He is speaking truth, he is preaching fingers preach.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I mean, I'll tell you this, I did the whole
student loan things and being don't judge me, and if
you're doing them, this.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Is exactly I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Let me tell you, I don't want to say that
my generation is a dumb generation because we're not better here.
Are we less educated in many things than our past
you know generation.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
To me and my eyes, yes, why because we've gotten
real comfortable. A lot of you don't even know how
to spell no more, you got this damn spell check.
I mean overall, it's like.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You know, we have become so comfortable with technology, the
internet and everything else.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I feel that this is a world scam for.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
The next generation of mass and stupid, more dumb than
the past because with all due respect for all of them,
they don't respect and everybody feels offriended those that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Are out there, you know, showing your toes on the
only fans.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Now you made this income and now you don't feel
the need to find any type of education for what
you see. What I'm saying, it's like I think that
education is key, is important. That's how I feel about it.
I really feel that education should be free. That's just me,
because it's a way of making our country a better
place if everybody wanted to study what they really want.
My mom wanted to be a teacher and study and
(25:32):
go to school, but she comes from poverty. She was
never able to have. You know, my grandparents take her
pay for her college. She ended up being a cook,
you know. I mean she cooks fantastic, but that really
wasn't her dream. And like that, there's many people that
have so much potential that if they were just given
a small opportunity, God knows what they could have been,
you know, made out of themselves. So I really really
(25:54):
wish and pray that at some point.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Amazing and it's like.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know what, everybody gets to go to college for free,
everybody free education. I know that I'm dreaming very high,
but anything is possible, and that would be so great.
I really feel inspired and motivated when I speak to
someone that knows their shit. That's that's you know, inspired, motivated, driven,
you know, that's passionate.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I really love this. But if you had that the
last tip of I'm gonna stay or take away, what
would you leave the people with?
Speaker 3 (26:26):
My invitation to everyone listening is there is enough food
at the table. If you have one mantra in your
life this week or today, try and operate from there
is enough. When you see your community winning, it means
you are winning. And I promise you if you shift
your mind in that direction, you will you will breathe
(26:49):
a little easier, and you will see more wins in
your life. There is enough food at the table for
all of us. Whiteness is the thing that's trying to
tell you to fight a scrap, to use your nails,
to keep other people down. We have to unplug from
whiteness by any means necessary. And one of the ways
we do that is we operate from abundant.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Wow, that was deep in a matter of term, will
be like, oh yes, that being stingy.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
What the hell? Don't be stingy. Everybody gotta eat. You
know what I'm saying, put in the work. And if
you find somebody else, drag the ass long too.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
If you know somebody that's talented, somebody that's good at
what they're doing, you see them struggling. And you're in
a in a place where, you know what I'm saying,
a place of power, in a place where you can
make a difference. Gon Yo, just be like, oh Amy,
put a referral, listen, alex yo, he's dope, he's questa.
It doesn't cost you, nothing is not gonna take away
from you. It's only but gonna build you and build
(27:44):
your community and build your people. And if God forbid,
this is my takeaway. And if God forbid you know,
one of youall jobs. If you do good for someone else,
I promise you that that person will be there or
what at least see soona persona you know soon with
a good heart. Be like yo, I remember when I
was in a bad place a homeboy. They you know
(28:05):
what I'm saying, Let me, let me help. So at
the un this is a ladder. Stop stop feeling.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Like it's only about you, like oh my god, I
get Don't be like that.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
And besides, karma is a bitch, and karma can also
be real good to you if you do things right.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
So I hope you like my takeaway because you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
After he gave it so smoothly, I had to be
exactly I'm out of and give you the business. Christopher muchisi,
my grass I, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm gonna try to inspire some people right now, because
this is what the show is about.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I always want people to take away something at the
end of the day that can inspire you, motivate you,
maybe make you look at things differently. Maybe someone who's
listening now be like, you know, damn, I really hadn't
thought about it this way. And now that he said that,
like you know, I feel like, you know, I'm going
to do something about it. And that's what we need.
We need more people to be vocal about it and
(28:56):
make a difference. And you definitely are. Where can we
purchase your book anywhere?
Speaker 5 (29:00):
Anywhere?
Speaker 3 (29:01):
You get your books at the Amazon, the bookshop, the
Bars and Nobles, the books and books.
Speaker 5 (29:07):
If you're in Miami, you have.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Money, you got the books.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Are You're aw.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Listen by the way, not for nothing. But I'm an
audiobook type of girl too, So eventually.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
The audiobook I narrated it.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
He did the audiobook.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Damn, I don memo. He's trying to make you get this.
You have no excuses if you don't. If you don't
want to read it, you could just hear it. The
point is check it out.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I'm Alex.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Thank you so much as usual for joining in a
little person Gangganggang. You already know what it is, guys,
must I say thank you, thank you, thank you once
again for listening to exactly Amada. Find me at all
my social media platforms at Amada or exactly Amada, make
sure to find me on YouTube. Catch my show by
searching for Michael through that podcast and.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Clicking on exactly Amada.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
I remember that this has been a production of Ihearts
Michael through that podcast network. For more podcasts from iHeart,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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