July 27, 2023 • 29 mins
This week on Exactly Amara, we explore the emotional struggles and challenges when caring for aging parents. Joined by her makeup artist, Debbie, a former CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant), the women get personal when discussing moving older parents into a nursing home and weighing the pros and cons of home care.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome, guys, welcome, welcome to my show, your show exactly
amadai to girl am and you're listening to exactly amada
exactment Joe Divinas, which si magrasa. Guys for joining, for supporting,
and by the way, don't forget that this is a
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(00:23):
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head over to the YouTube channel and right there you
could watch or listen to the podcast by searching for
(00:44):
Microtura podcast and clicking on exactly a'm ada exact damente.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I'm toda this episode, I want to talk about
something that really hits home for me because anybody that
knows me knows that my mother is everything to me.
My mom has been my best friend. My mother immigrated
to this country by herself, so she's everything.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know that I know.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I met my father, you know when I was like
about I don't know, ten years old. Once then I
saw him again when I was like fifteen, and then
I saw him again once I was an adult. You know,
he's been part of my life now as an adult,
but it took some time to grow into that, and
a lot of people wouldn't had forgiven him for being
absent in, you know, in my life, the way that
(01:30):
he was in every single aspect emotionally, financially and all
that good stuff. But I have decided to be a
bigger person and take him into my household and make
him part of my family. You know, just because one
of your parents wasn't a good parent, it doesn't mean
that you still can't be a good son, a good
daughter and show them how it's done. Mark the difference. However,
(01:52):
accepting him in my household also comes with the responsibility
of taking care of him, you know, to the good
and the bad. That means, you know, through any health
issues or anything like that. For example, at one point,
my father had prosted cancer. I was the one that
was in every doctor's appointment. I was the one that
was in you know, with him in the hospital when
he had surgery. I was there for him. However, back
(02:16):
then I didn't have any children. Now I have children,
and I also have my mother who also has a
lot of health issues and all those things, and it
is a lot, it is a lie.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Today we're diving into the subject of taking care of
our aging parents. What do we do when our parents
start to fall apart, you know, meaning their health, They're tired,
they no longer can do certain things like they were
back in the days, even though in many occasions, in
our mind we still see them with the same strength
that they had when we were younger. And the truth
(02:48):
is they're only but getting older. You know, we often
face challenges of making decisions of what to do for
the well being, whether it is you know, arranging their
new living you know, like, you know, maybe you should
go to an elderly home. Maybe you should have someone
take care of them inside of your home. Maybe you
should send them to you know, their native country. What
(03:09):
do you do? And also as Latinos, we have a
different way of taking care of our parents. We're big
believers in, you know, keeping our family together, whether it
is that your cousins and your brothers, your sisters, everybody
comes together to take care of each other. The Latino community. Also,
for the most part, we're one of those that we
stay living with our parents to we're like forty and
(03:29):
even after you're married, in many occasions you end up
moving your you know, your wife or husband into the family,
into the household. So we're accustomed to being so close
with each other. What do we do? You know, we
have to explore different options and consider what would be
the best care possible parties socomulo mani hamel. How do
(03:51):
you make that decision of saying, you know what, I
think it's time for us to have that conversation. I
no longer can take you know, care of you or
you may need more attention, you may need more health
attention than I can provide because on many occasions, you
know a lot of us. In my case as a
single parent or even as a single child, all the
responsibility is put on me. How do I still move
(04:14):
on with my career? How do I still work? How
can I still become a provider? How can I be
a wife to my husband eventually while still taking care
of my mother and my father and my children? How
do you do this? Anyways? Today I have my makeup artist,
Debbie which is super weird because I would never have
her come in here. But then I see she has
(04:36):
such a great personality and she has such a great
view of seeing life that I was like, I would
love to discuss this with you. Debbie, thank you so
much for joining me today here on exactly Amada. And
I want to ask you, so what about your parents?
Do you live with your parents or your grandparents? You know,
how did your mother your father deal with your grandparents
or they still live. How has it been for you?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
First of all, I'm super excited to be here currently.
I'm not eve with my mom currently, but I know
my grandfather he had cancer as well, unfortunately, and when
he was debilitating in front of us, it was so
hard for us. He understand, and we're also from the
Islands as well. My mom took him back to his
native home, which is Haiti, and you know over there
(05:19):
is different. You know, he had like three helpers to
help him, maids and everything like that, so it was
easy process for him and for us as well. So
I remember every month we would go for like three
to four days to go and see my grandfather because
in my opinion, I wouldn't put my parents in a
(05:40):
nursing home here because I used to be a CNA
like years ago, and I remember one of the DNA
certified nursing assistant. I remember when I was doing my internship,
one of the CNAs was throwing water at one of
the patients and I was like, you know what, I
promise Yamara the next day I wouldn't go back to
(06:01):
that nursing home.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And I thought about it. I was like, what if
it was me?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
What if it was my parents, what if it was
my grandparents?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right, well, in my case, I mean, I've never been
through a situation like that. However, I can only but
imagine how it would feel to believe that you're making
the right decision of putting your parents, you know, into
an elderly home. You never really know, like there's no
way of knowing if this nurse is going to be
good or she's gonna be malicious, because in many occasions,
(06:30):
in front of the family members, they're very courteous and caring,
and the moment that you know the family members leave,
they mistreat them. But at some point you have to
trust someone, right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, you have no choice but to trust someone because
especially here when you live in the United states.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We work.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
We have to work to make a living, right m hm,
So we have to trust someone. I think in my case,
I'll probably set up cameras in to view the person.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
It's hard for me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't know what I would do in that case,
but I know I'll put cam in my home for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Cameras are good obviously, so that you can know what's
going on. Also, the thought of our parents aging, you know,
in the comfort of being home, you know, with their
grandkids and all those things. I know that that can
to me. I would feel like it would make them
live longer because it gives them hope. And I know
that in many occasions. For example, I know that my
kids can be very stressful and annoying in the aspect
(07:22):
of they wake up at night and they're screaming, and
they want milk, and they want their diapers change, and
it's just a lot. But I also see the happiness
and the joy that my mother and my father get from,
you know, seeing my daughters grow up and learning how
to talk and how to walk. All those experiences are
moments that you know, make them happy, and I enjoy that. However,
(07:44):
my mother has given me a lot of health scare.
I've had to call the ambulance in many occasions, and
when I've had to call them, I've thought to myself,
how am I supposed to manage or handle this?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
How do I go about this? Because I can't do everything.
I can be the financial provider, I can't be the
emotional provider for everyone. And it's not me being selfish?
But is it me being selfish to want to keep
them in my household knowing that I can't provide them
the help that they need. Or is it selfish of
(08:17):
me to think about myself and my children first and
then decide to put my mother or my father in
the care of someone else.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
As for me, my dream was to get a big
home right and build a mother in law suite in
the back like how you have in your back.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's a dream that we would all love to have,
but financially, the truth is that a lot of us
may not never have the possibility of having a big
home where you have a guest house, but you get
both of your parents, And what about if your parents
don't get along like my mother can't stand my father
at all. But because of the circumstances of life, they
have been forced to have to live together. My mom
(09:04):
makes sure to remind him all the reasons why she
can't stand him every other day. It's like a bittersweet situation.
But you know, they figured out how to live together,
and thanks to that, I am able to help both
of them. I don't know. I just feel like it's
such a hard decision to make, and also just I
think it's realistically we have to talk about it. I
(09:25):
also think this is a very taboo issue. You know,
we don't want to talk about death. We don't want
to talk about getting older, as if that's not gonna happen.
Eventually all of us are gonna get older. Have you
planned those things out? I mean, I'm talking about from
the funeral service to the graveyard, to what you want
to wear, to how you want it done. If I
(09:47):
get sick. You know I don't want this, I want
it this way. Have you spoken to your health insurance?
Have you separated money for that? Are you even thinking
of that day? Are you gonna Are you thinking of,
oh well, oh you know, God forbid? If I die, well,
then you just deal with it. What about if your
children are not prepared financially to deal with that, then
you see a lot of people that end up doing
(10:08):
godfunding accounts, which anybody can go through a financial situation.
I get that part, But why as a family aren't
we having these conversations on what the hell to do?
We don't be knowing what to do.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
The thing is, I think a lot of people are
oblivious and they're scared of to have that conversation. It's
ironic because last week I literally had that conversation with
my mom. So I had to actually go and get
a burial plan for her. Yes, we had a burial plan.
Like you know, listen, I'm a makeup artist. Yes I
make money, but not as much that I want to make.
(10:43):
You understand what I mean. But now we have a
family plan. So what I did was I have a
burial plot for me, my mom, and my daughter. Oh okay, okay,
So what inspired you to do that? And how did
you go about it? Like did you do your research?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You ask somebody?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Four months ago we had that passed away and it
was horrible. Nobody had money, he was not prepared. Okay,
he didn't have insurance. Oh god, yeah, okay, So it
was like a battle.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
The parent like all our family was like, oh I
gave this much. I gave this much. Oh he was there,
he was making money. Why didn't he prepared?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So I don't want to go through that.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's why we had That's why we had an executive decision. Me,
my brother, my older brother, and my daughter A street.
We had a conversation. We had a meeting with like, listen,
this is what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is what we're going to do. This is what
I say contribute, and this is what he can contribute.
You understand what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So that's what we have to do because it's very
expensive right now when people pass away.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Unfortunately, it's like a party. Yeah, you have to have
what is it what is it awake.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Or something like that. You have to rent somewhere, you
have to provide it's full and then it turns into
there's a part of me show, whether it turns into
a fashion show, whether it turns into a birthday party event.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Because now you're in the middle of hurting, and I
know that we're going a little bit off topic, but
all of this comes into the part of taking care
of our parents, taking care of our siblings, taking care
of our household, but specifically our parents, because a lot
of our parents come in my case, you know, as
a Latina, you know, the Caribbean mentality is, let's not
talk about the elderly. You know, let's not talk about
getting sick, because then we're going to attract it. Or
(12:21):
let's not talk about, you know, dying, because then you're
going to attract it. No, let's attraction. Let's talk about it.
So if God forbids something were to happen, we know
where we stand. We've created a plan, a plan of emergency, right,
whether it is that you have your health insurance, whether
it is that you've created a trust for all your properties.
There's been so many occasions where people pass away then
(12:43):
you find out once they sold the house that behind
you know, behind a tile or behind the air vent,
this person that's where they had their little mini safe,
where they had hundreds or thousands of dollars saved. Because
that's the old school mentality which I respect, of keeping cash,
paid some work. So all these little details matter. And
(13:03):
going back to taking care of our parents. I know
someone who also figured out a way to the system.
Guys pay attention to this. She found out that if
she were to take care of her parents, the government
would provide government assistant and she could also charge. So
she actually figured a way of taking a course that
(13:24):
didn't even take that long, and she was able to
become a caregiver for her parents and at the same way,
she was making money. So I kind of evened it out.
It's like, I don't have to sacrifice not being with
my parents. I don't have to sacrifice paying additional money
to put them somewhere where they can have someone take
(13:46):
care of them. I can actually go to school, take
a little course, give my licensings or whatever it is
that I need, and I could be a caregiver to
my own parents and get paid individually for both. So
I also think that there's ways of going about things.
Just don't think about it like ask questions. There's many
(14:06):
ways that you can financially still make it happen. And
there also is a lot of government assistant that we
may not know. And I also think that minorities in
the Latino community as well, we don't like to ask
for help. We don't like people to know that we're going,
you know, and it's through troubles. It's embarrassing to us
all types of things when realistically there's a lot of campaigns, foundations,
(14:30):
there's a lot of organizations and things like that that
are willing to help and assist.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
There is a lot of organizations and assistance, but we
need to know there's a lot of people now talking
about it.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
We need to know about these organizations.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Who do we talk to?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Where do we find the information? And also too, there's
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, I was fortunate that I have a brother, and
you know, i'm here, I'm able to get a burial
plan from my mom, right, But what about the other
people that's less fortunate than me?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes, how do they go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Because it's a topic of conversation, it's very important, and
I'm happy that we're talking about that for real.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, I get it, And the same way that I
wanted to also point out in many occasions, if you
are and I don't know because as a mother now,
I can only but imagine if you are a mother
or a father and you've dedicated your time, your efforts,
your life into raising your children, sacrificing your youth, your body,
your mental you're all types of things. You're sleep, all
(15:38):
types of things. You'll go out and work. You make
sure that your kids have the best education possible, that
they're dressed, that they're never hungry. You go through the
whole process and then you get sick or then you
get older and they're like, well, now you're in the
way of my life, so I have to get rid
of you or put you somewhere, or like I'll see
(15:58):
you in the weekends if that maybe I'm busy on
the weekends or how Because let's also not think just
about ourselves. But on the other side, how would you
feel if your child, after all the sacrifices you've done
for them, later on, sees you as if you know right,
like you know, I love you and everything, but I
(16:20):
just need to live my life. Wow. What do you
do then, as a parent and also as a child,
as the mother, as the daughter or the son of
your mother and your father, how would you feel like
also put yourself in that mindset, I would say, go
as hard as you can to do every single thing
you can possibly think of to be there for your parents,
(16:42):
because I always say, would your parents do that to you?
Would your parents put you away because they needed to
live their life? And I know that the love that
your mother and your father have for you is different
than the one that you may have for your parents,
because it's just different, like you came out of them
manly your mother. But you know what I'm saying, Like
your mother, no matter how much of a bit she
(17:02):
may be at times, she loves you right like you.
She gave birth to you. To think of the hurt
and the pain. Even if they say yes, don't worry,
you can take me, because a lot of them feel
My mom's been that person where she's like if for
any other to wear a reason. Eventually you feel that
I am disturbing your future, your peace of what you
have to do in life, and you have to put
(17:25):
me somewhere. That's not what I will want, but I
want I want to see you do well in life.
So you go ahead and you do that. To even
think in that way, that's a whole sacrifice a mother
would be willing to do for their kid. So if
you have a chance to not do that, I would say,
figure it out, bro, don't don't just feel like that's
(17:45):
your first option to just boom, get get rid of them.
And damn, that's a tough one. I don't even know.
Because my mother used to work in an elderly home.
But she used to be a cook. Not to mention
these are huge business. They make a lot of money
out of insurance company and all chips, you know, health
insurance and all this stuff. So yes, you know she
was working there, and I will never forget. There was
this one lady once that she was dropped off there
(18:09):
by her daughter, and I guess mentally she wasn't there
one hundred percent. And every time a nurse or anybody
will walk through the door, she would be like, is
my daughter here? Yet? Oh, my god, is my daughter here?
Every single day she would be like, my daughter is
coming back for me? Right, my daughter's coming back for me.
But she was like, mentally not there one hundred percent,
(18:29):
and she would just be like, is my then my daughter? Call?
Is my daughter coming? Like all the time. I can
only but imagine the pain that lady had to have
all those days and months. And then, to be honest,
her daughter actually never really came back. She felt she
was doing her part by paying for the service and
leaving her there, and then that was it. And in
(18:50):
many occasions, we also have to remember that it's not
just the financial parts the attention, it's the love is
the being there. Being supportive is the love and attention
of a hug, of a kiss of you know, it's
not the same when somebody else gives it to you
then when your own family is there to give it
to you.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think a lot of people these days now they're desensitized. Okay,
they are desensitive.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
To talk about it, no seriously, because it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Because I worked in special needs department for twelve years, Omara, okay,
and I will never forget this. A dad and his
daughter was special needs. The mom left them, she couldn't
take it, and he would come with his daughter. I
was like, how's your wife and everything? You know what
I mean because I develop a relationship with my patients
(19:47):
and the parents as well. And he was like, you know,
my wife left me when our daughter was three years old.
So he's been taking care of his daughter and she
was seven. She was seventeen at the time. Wow, and
he did everything. Some people, unfortunately, they're selfish, they don't
have the and some people also not even selfish, they
don't have the mental capacity to be able to deal
(20:10):
with certain things. You understand what I mean that a
lot of people can't.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But you know what, let's also talk about this. For example,
the choice to invite our parents into our homes is
also a deep thought. You know, it's something that you
have to discuss. Even let's say you're married, you have
a relationship, you have your own household, your parents may
not live with you. But now to make the decision
as a couple, as your own individual family, to say,
my mother, whether it's a grandmother or the father or
(20:36):
the grandfather of your children, my mother, my father is
going through a situation. As a family, the family decision
should be we need to provide assistant help and have
them come into our household. That's another conversation that can
get very very difficult, you know, because it may not
just be yours. What about it it's the grand you know,
(20:56):
the father or the mother of your significant other, you know,
your husband or your wife's mother or father. Now you
have to bring them into your household. Moving in your
parents into your household in order to take care of
them and provide for them because they need of you,
they need your assistant can be very challenging. You know,
you can also create precious moments together as a family,
as a household, and I think that that can also
(21:18):
bring a lot of balance, right, I mean as a
way of also honoring your parents, But it can bring
a lot of balance in the aspect of maybe this
person may be able to help you with your kids
while you're at work, right, or maybe they can because
they need help themselves. It's a lot to think about.
It's a lot, but at least you have them with you.
I also think and know, like I said before, my
(21:39):
daughters have brought a lot of you know, joy to
my parents' spirit, and I think it's important to also
create a space where they can thrive and you know,
share laughters and tears and you know, cherish moments together
as a family, as a household. And I continue to
say family because I feel that we have disconnected ourselves
from our family values. So someone with familiar no so
(22:04):
someone that amilia. Family shouldn't just come together when it's
time for barbecue, cookouts, for funerals, for birthday parties. It
shouldn't be like that. When your family needs of you,
This is the moment to prove that you are really family.
And in many occasions you could be sick, but just
having that laughter, that joy, having music around, having you know,
(22:26):
someone comb your hair and give you a hug and
give you a nice compliment. All those little things can
truly affect the way that you feel, even health wise.
You know, there's people that have been able to live
a longer life because they've been able to be around love,
be around people that actually care for them and are
there for them. Oh no, no, this yeah, seem one
can say like this because I am not necessarily one
(22:48):
hundred percent in it. I do have two elderly you know,
parents who both have a lot of health issues, who
both are consistently in the hospital every so often, while
also having two babies. You know what I'm saying, There
are fifteen months and it's a lot of responsibility. And
in my case, I am the mother and father of
my mother and my father, and I am the mother
(23:09):
and father of my kids, and I'm still out here
working and it's a lot of my plate. So thank
god I've been able to financially stay afloat and live
a different lifestyle. But for those I can't, I wonder
how do they make the decision of not you guys
to go, but I can't do it? You know, how
do I go about it? And how can I also
(23:32):
put you in the right place? For you, not the cheapest,
because that's another thing where you're talking about someone that's
going to be taking care of your family. The same
way that you would do research, you know about putting
your kids on a daycare center that you want to
make sure that your kids is good, the same effort
you should put into figuring out what nurses this. How
long have you been in the business. You know, what
(23:54):
food are they feeding you? Are they giving you your
meds on time? All those things are necessary. And I
know that there's a lot of you know, work and
it's a lot of weight on your shoulders, but you
got to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You do have to make it happen. That's where the
home health agencies come in and be very cognizant of
your surroundings and the home health agency that you pick,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Look at the ratings, look at new reviews and things
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Visit the facilities, speak to the nurses. You know, do
your homework, do your background. Like you said, it's the
same thing just like you do research for your children.
So it's very important you remember they're human beings and.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Not only just thinking about human beings. I mean, now
once your parents gets sick or once your parents no
longer can do for themselves the way that you know
you wish that they could if you were to put
them in these centers. I don't know. I feel like
if I had my mother God forbid, or my father
and a center where they can provide and help for them,
I would literally check them like I would do my kids.
(25:00):
Your back, I'm gonna check your butt, I'm gonna check
your legs, I'm gonna check your chest, in your arms,
is there any bruises, any scratches, bed sores? And many occasions.
We also have to remember that there's a lot of
older people that don't even remember you at a certain
you know, Alzheimer's okay, they don't remember you and dementia,
and it's hard for them to even speak to you
(25:20):
and tell you. Look, they're doing this to me, this
happened to me. They may not be able to move,
they may they may be scared to even tell you
because they've been threatened. There's so many things to it
that you really gotta talk it through and think it
out and figure out what's the best decision. All I'm
gonna say is pray to God, ask God to enlighten
you ask God to provide the answer to guide your steps.
(25:44):
I'm a big person in prayer, you know, ask for
guidance because sometimes you may not feel that you know
you're making the right decision. I hope that this conversation
inspires you to want to go home and have a
conversation with your parents about if God forbid something were
to happen to you, how would you want me to
handle it. What would you like me to do for you?
(26:04):
What would make you more comfortable? Do you mind? Can
we have a conversation about doing a testament, all those things,
you know, getting an attorney, all these things need to
be spoken about. I know it's a really hard decision
to make. Debbie. I want to thank you so much
for joining me today because I know that at one
point you also worked as a nurse and you were
able to see and be in the same space of
(26:26):
seeing how they're taken care of. And I know that
there's a lot of great elderly homes. There's a lot
of great nurses out there that really, you know, take
their job seriously and they make their patience, you know,
their families, and I respect that and for all of
those that are out there right now, going to school
to you know, be a caregiver. You know those that
are currently doing it. I personally want to thank you.
(26:49):
Thank you so much for being the best that you
can be, for taking time out of your day, out
of your life, out of your career to be that
helping hand to a family that needs guys, guidence to
a person who needs assistance. Thank you so much. All
I'm going to say is, if you could take anything home,
pray on it, do your research, talk as a family.
(27:11):
As a family, have that conversation now. Don't wait till
it's too late. Have that conversation now where you guys
figure out what would be the steps to take, whether
it is from funeral services, whether it is finding a
good caregiver, finding out someone that you know, what would
be the plan financially? Can we start separating some money
for in a case of an emergency. Can we start
figuring out, you know, whether it is that I may
(27:33):
get sick. If I get sick, what do you guys
do then? You know, do we have health insurance and
you haven't had health insurance. That's something that's extremely important
that you guys should really look into now and There's
a lot of assistance out there as well. There is
always somebody out there that has good intentions and that
is willing to be a helping hand when you don't
know what to do in these occasions. Because I personally
(27:56):
don't know what to do, I know it's a really
tough conversation. I feel that at one point, very soon,
I'm going to have to have that conversation with my
mother and my father on what am I going to do?
How am I going to provide assistance for you? Are
you guys going to stay here? Does my father want
to go back to the Dominican Republic and have his
family take care of him because it's maybe cheaper out there.
(28:17):
This is so tough. If you're going through a similar experiences,
or if you've gone through anything like this in the past,
feel free to hit me up, give me some comments,
let me read it, tell me where to go, how
do I search it?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is such a tough, tough topic, but I'm glad
that we're talking about it. I'm hoping I am able
to inspire or motivate any of you guys to start
this conversation today and not wait till it's too late,
and I want to thank you guys so much for
being part of Exactly Amada. Once again, I am so
grateful to every single one of you. Thank you for
all the love and support, for the reviews and the subscription.
(28:50):
Thank you so so much. Make sure to find me
on YouTube. Catch my show by searching for my Quick
with a podcast on YouTube and clicking on exactly Amada.
Follow me also on Instagram at Amara lanegra a l
n Amada La nigra a l N. And remember that
this has been a production of Ihearts micro Buddha Podcast Network.
This has been exactly a Mada
Welcome, guys, welcome, welcome to my show, your show exactly
amadai to girl am and you're listening to exactly amada
exactment Joe Divinas, which si magrasa. Guys for joining, for supporting,
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and as usual, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast
(00:23):
on your favorite platform and of course rados and give
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could watch or listen to the podcast by searching for
(00:44):
Microtura podcast and clicking on exactly a'm ada exact damente.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, I'm toda this episode, I want to talk about
something that really hits home for me because anybody that
knows me knows that my mother is everything to me.
My mom has been my best friend. My mother immigrated
to this country by herself, so she's everything.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You know that I know.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I met my father, you know when I was like
about I don't know, ten years old. Once then I
saw him again when I was like fifteen, and then
I saw him again once I was an adult. You know,
he's been part of my life now as an adult,
but it took some time to grow into that, and
a lot of people wouldn't had forgiven him for being
absent in, you know, in my life, the way that
(01:30):
he was in every single aspect emotionally, financially and all
that good stuff. But I have decided to be a
bigger person and take him into my household and make
him part of my family. You know, just because one
of your parents wasn't a good parent, it doesn't mean
that you still can't be a good son, a good
daughter and show them how it's done. Mark the difference. However,
(01:52):
accepting him in my household also comes with the responsibility
of taking care of him, you know, to the good
and the bad. That means, you know, through any health
issues or anything like that. For example, at one point,
my father had prosted cancer. I was the one that
was in every doctor's appointment. I was the one that
was in you know, with him in the hospital when
he had surgery. I was there for him. However, back
(02:16):
then I didn't have any children. Now I have children,
and I also have my mother who also has a
lot of health issues and all those things, and it
is a lot, it is a lie.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Today we're diving into the subject of taking care of
our aging parents. What do we do when our parents
start to fall apart, you know, meaning their health, They're tired,
they no longer can do certain things like they were
back in the days, even though in many occasions, in
our mind we still see them with the same strength
that they had when we were younger. And the truth
(02:48):
is they're only but getting older. You know, we often
face challenges of making decisions of what to do for
the well being, whether it is you know, arranging their
new living you know, like, you know, maybe you should
go to an elderly home. Maybe you should have someone
take care of them inside of your home. Maybe you
should send them to you know, their native country. What
(03:09):
do you do? And also as Latinos, we have a
different way of taking care of our parents. We're big
believers in, you know, keeping our family together, whether it
is that your cousins and your brothers, your sisters, everybody
comes together to take care of each other. The Latino community. Also,
for the most part, we're one of those that we
stay living with our parents to we're like forty and
(03:29):
even after you're married, in many occasions you end up
moving your you know, your wife or husband into the family,
into the household. So we're accustomed to being so close
with each other. What do we do? You know, we
have to explore different options and consider what would be
the best care possible parties socomulo mani hamel. How do
(03:51):
you make that decision of saying, you know what, I
think it's time for us to have that conversation. I
no longer can take you know, care of you or
you may need more attention, you may need more health
attention than I can provide because on many occasions, you
know a lot of us. In my case as a
single parent or even as a single child, all the
responsibility is put on me. How do I still move
(04:14):
on with my career? How do I still work? How
can I still become a provider? How can I be
a wife to my husband eventually while still taking care
of my mother and my father and my children? How
do you do this? Anyways? Today I have my makeup artist,
Debbie which is super weird because I would never have
her come in here. But then I see she has
(04:36):
such a great personality and she has such a great
view of seeing life that I was like, I would
love to discuss this with you. Debbie, thank you so
much for joining me today here on exactly Amada. And
I want to ask you, so what about your parents?
Do you live with your parents or your grandparents? You know,
how did your mother your father deal with your grandparents
or they still live. How has it been for you?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
First of all, I'm super excited to be here currently.
I'm not eve with my mom currently, but I know
my grandfather he had cancer as well, unfortunately, and when
he was debilitating in front of us, it was so
hard for us. He understand, and we're also from the
Islands as well. My mom took him back to his
native home, which is Haiti, and you know over there
(05:19):
is different. You know, he had like three helpers to
help him, maids and everything like that, so it was
easy process for him and for us as well. So
I remember every month we would go for like three
to four days to go and see my grandfather because
in my opinion, I wouldn't put my parents in a
(05:40):
nursing home here because I used to be a CNA
like years ago, and I remember one of the DNA
certified nursing assistant. I remember when I was doing my internship,
one of the CNAs was throwing water at one of
the patients and I was like, you know what, I
promise Yamara the next day I wouldn't go back to
(06:01):
that nursing home.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
And I thought about it. I was like, what if
it was me?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
What if it was my parents, what if it was
my grandparents?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Right, well, in my case, I mean, I've never been
through a situation like that. However, I can only but
imagine how it would feel to believe that you're making
the right decision of putting your parents, you know, into
an elderly home. You never really know, like there's no
way of knowing if this nurse is going to be
good or she's gonna be malicious, because in many occasions,
(06:30):
in front of the family members, they're very courteous and caring,
and the moment that you know the family members leave,
they mistreat them. But at some point you have to
trust someone, right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yes, you have no choice but to trust someone because
especially here when you live in the United states.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We work.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
We have to work to make a living, right m hm,
So we have to trust someone. I think in my case,
I'll probably set up cameras in to view the person.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
It's hard for me.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't know what I would do in that case,
but I know I'll put cam in my home for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Cameras are good obviously, so that you can know what's
going on. Also, the thought of our parents aging, you know,
in the comfort of being home, you know, with their
grandkids and all those things. I know that that can
to me. I would feel like it would make them
live longer because it gives them hope. And I know
that in many occasions. For example, I know that my
kids can be very stressful and annoying in the aspect
(07:22):
of they wake up at night and they're screaming, and
they want milk, and they want their diapers change, and
it's just a lot. But I also see the happiness
and the joy that my mother and my father get from,
you know, seeing my daughters grow up and learning how
to talk and how to walk. All those experiences are
moments that you know, make them happy, and I enjoy that. However,
(07:44):
my mother has given me a lot of health scare.
I've had to call the ambulance in many occasions, and
when I've had to call them, I've thought to myself,
how am I supposed to manage or handle this?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Like?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
How do I go about this? Because I can't do everything.
I can be the financial provider, I can't be the
emotional provider for everyone. And it's not me being selfish?
But is it me being selfish to want to keep
them in my household knowing that I can't provide them
the help that they need. Or is it selfish of
(08:17):
me to think about myself and my children first and
then decide to put my mother or my father in
the care of someone else.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
As for me, my dream was to get a big
home right and build a mother in law suite in
the back like how you have in your back.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's a dream that we would all love to have,
but financially, the truth is that a lot of us
may not never have the possibility of having a big
home where you have a guest house, but you get
both of your parents, And what about if your parents
don't get along like my mother can't stand my father
at all. But because of the circumstances of life, they
have been forced to have to live together. My mom
(09:04):
makes sure to remind him all the reasons why she
can't stand him every other day. It's like a bittersweet situation.
But you know, they figured out how to live together,
and thanks to that, I am able to help both
of them. I don't know. I just feel like it's
such a hard decision to make, and also just I
think it's realistically we have to talk about it. I
(09:25):
also think this is a very taboo issue. You know,
we don't want to talk about death. We don't want
to talk about getting older, as if that's not gonna happen.
Eventually all of us are gonna get older. Have you
planned those things out? I mean, I'm talking about from
the funeral service to the graveyard, to what you want
to wear, to how you want it done. If I
(09:47):
get sick. You know I don't want this, I want
it this way. Have you spoken to your health insurance?
Have you separated money for that? Are you even thinking
of that day? Are you gonna Are you thinking of,
oh well, oh you know, God forbid? If I die, well,
then you just deal with it. What about if your
children are not prepared financially to deal with that, then
you see a lot of people that end up doing
(10:08):
godfunding accounts, which anybody can go through a financial situation.
I get that part, But why as a family aren't
we having these conversations on what the hell to do?
We don't be knowing what to do.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
The thing is, I think a lot of people are
oblivious and they're scared of to have that conversation. It's
ironic because last week I literally had that conversation with
my mom. So I had to actually go and get
a burial plan for her. Yes, we had a burial plan.
Like you know, listen, I'm a makeup artist. Yes I
make money, but not as much that I want to make.
(10:43):
You understand what I mean. But now we have a
family plan. So what I did was I have a
burial plot for me, my mom, and my daughter. Oh okay, okay,
So what inspired you to do that? And how did
you go about it? Like did you do your research?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
You ask somebody?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Four months ago we had that passed away and it
was horrible. Nobody had money, he was not prepared. Okay,
he didn't have insurance. Oh god, yeah, okay, So it
was like a battle.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
The parent like all our family was like, oh I
gave this much. I gave this much. Oh he was there,
he was making money. Why didn't he prepared?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
So I don't want to go through that.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
That's why we had That's why we had an executive decision. Me,
my brother, my older brother, and my daughter A street.
We had a conversation. We had a meeting with like, listen,
this is what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
This is what we're going to do. This is what
I say contribute, and this is what he can contribute.
You understand what I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So that's what we have to do because it's very
expensive right now when people pass away.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Unfortunately, it's like a party. Yeah, you have to have
what is it what is it awake.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Or something like that. You have to rent somewhere, you
have to provide it's full and then it turns into
there's a part of me show, whether it turns into
a fashion show, whether it turns into a birthday party event.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Because now you're in the middle of hurting, and I
know that we're going a little bit off topic, but
all of this comes into the part of taking care
of our parents, taking care of our siblings, taking care
of our household, but specifically our parents, because a lot
of our parents come in my case, you know, as
a Latina, you know, the Caribbean mentality is, let's not
talk about the elderly. You know, let's not talk about
getting sick, because then we're going to attract it. Or
(12:21):
let's not talk about, you know, dying, because then you're
going to attract it. No, let's attraction. Let's talk about it.
So if God forbids something were to happen, we know
where we stand. We've created a plan, a plan of emergency, right,
whether it is that you have your health insurance, whether
it is that you've created a trust for all your properties.
There's been so many occasions where people pass away then
(12:43):
you find out once they sold the house that behind
you know, behind a tile or behind the air vent,
this person that's where they had their little mini safe,
where they had hundreds or thousands of dollars saved. Because
that's the old school mentality which I respect, of keeping cash,
paid some work. So all these little details matter. And
(13:03):
going back to taking care of our parents. I know
someone who also figured out a way to the system.
Guys pay attention to this. She found out that if
she were to take care of her parents, the government
would provide government assistant and she could also charge. So
she actually figured a way of taking a course that
(13:24):
didn't even take that long, and she was able to
become a caregiver for her parents and at the same way,
she was making money. So I kind of evened it out.
It's like, I don't have to sacrifice not being with
my parents. I don't have to sacrifice paying additional money
to put them somewhere where they can have someone take
(13:46):
care of them. I can actually go to school, take
a little course, give my licensings or whatever it is
that I need, and I could be a caregiver to
my own parents and get paid individually for both. So
I also think that there's ways of going about things.
Just don't think about it like ask questions. There's many
(14:06):
ways that you can financially still make it happen. And
there also is a lot of government assistant that we
may not know. And I also think that minorities in
the Latino community as well, we don't like to ask
for help. We don't like people to know that we're going,
you know, and it's through troubles. It's embarrassing to us
all types of things when realistically there's a lot of campaigns, foundations,
(14:30):
there's a lot of organizations and things like that that
are willing to help and assist.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
There is a lot of organizations and assistance, but we
need to know there's a lot of people now talking
about it.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
We need to know about these organizations.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Who do we talk to?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Where do we find the information? And also too, there's
a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Well, I was fortunate that I have a brother, and
you know, i'm here, I'm able to get a burial
plan from my mom, right, But what about the other
people that's less fortunate than me?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yes, how do they go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Because it's a topic of conversation, it's very important, and
I'm happy that we're talking about that for real.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
No, I get it, And the same way that I
wanted to also point out in many occasions, if you
are and I don't know because as a mother now,
I can only but imagine if you are a mother
or a father and you've dedicated your time, your efforts,
your life into raising your children, sacrificing your youth, your body,
your mental you're all types of things. You're sleep, all
(15:38):
types of things. You'll go out and work. You make
sure that your kids have the best education possible, that
they're dressed, that they're never hungry. You go through the
whole process and then you get sick or then you
get older and they're like, well, now you're in the
way of my life, so I have to get rid
of you or put you somewhere, or like I'll see
(15:58):
you in the weekends if that maybe I'm busy on
the weekends or how Because let's also not think just
about ourselves. But on the other side, how would you
feel if your child, after all the sacrifices you've done
for them, later on, sees you as if you know right,
like you know, I love you and everything, but I
(16:20):
just need to live my life. Wow. What do you
do then, as a parent and also as a child,
as the mother, as the daughter or the son of
your mother and your father, how would you feel like
also put yourself in that mindset, I would say, go
as hard as you can to do every single thing
you can possibly think of to be there for your parents,
(16:42):
because I always say, would your parents do that to you?
Would your parents put you away because they needed to
live their life? And I know that the love that
your mother and your father have for you is different
than the one that you may have for your parents,
because it's just different, like you came out of them
manly your mother. But you know what I'm saying, Like
your mother, no matter how much of a bit she
(17:02):
may be at times, she loves you right like you.
She gave birth to you. To think of the hurt
and the pain. Even if they say yes, don't worry,
you can take me, because a lot of them feel
My mom's been that person where she's like if for
any other to wear a reason. Eventually you feel that
I am disturbing your future, your peace of what you
have to do in life, and you have to put
(17:25):
me somewhere. That's not what I will want, but I
want I want to see you do well in life.
So you go ahead and you do that. To even
think in that way, that's a whole sacrifice a mother
would be willing to do for their kid. So if
you have a chance to not do that, I would say,
figure it out, bro, don't don't just feel like that's
(17:45):
your first option to just boom, get get rid of them.
And damn, that's a tough one. I don't even know.
Because my mother used to work in an elderly home.
But she used to be a cook. Not to mention
these are huge business. They make a lot of money
out of insurance company and all chips, you know, health
insurance and all this stuff. So yes, you know she
was working there, and I will never forget. There was
this one lady once that she was dropped off there
(18:09):
by her daughter, and I guess mentally she wasn't there
one hundred percent. And every time a nurse or anybody
will walk through the door, she would be like, is
my daughter here? Yet? Oh, my god, is my daughter here?
Every single day she would be like, my daughter is
coming back for me? Right, my daughter's coming back for me.
But she was like, mentally not there one hundred percent,
(18:29):
and she would just be like, is my then my daughter? Call?
Is my daughter coming? Like all the time. I can
only but imagine the pain that lady had to have
all those days and months. And then, to be honest,
her daughter actually never really came back. She felt she
was doing her part by paying for the service and
leaving her there, and then that was it. And in
(18:50):
many occasions, we also have to remember that it's not
just the financial parts the attention, it's the love is
the being there. Being supportive is the love and attention
of a hug, of a kiss of you know, it's
not the same when somebody else gives it to you
then when your own family is there to give it
to you.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
I think a lot of people these days now they're desensitized. Okay,
they are desensitive.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
To talk about it, no seriously, because it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Because I worked in special needs department for twelve years, Omara, okay,
and I will never forget this. A dad and his
daughter was special needs. The mom left them, she couldn't
take it, and he would come with his daughter. I
was like, how's your wife and everything? You know what
I mean because I develop a relationship with my patients
(19:47):
and the parents as well. And he was like, you know,
my wife left me when our daughter was three years old.
So he's been taking care of his daughter and she
was seven. She was seventeen at the time. Wow, and
he did everything. Some people, unfortunately, they're selfish, they don't
have the and some people also not even selfish, they
don't have the mental capacity to be able to deal
(20:10):
with certain things. You understand what I mean that a
lot of people can't.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
But you know what, let's also talk about this. For example,
the choice to invite our parents into our homes is
also a deep thought. You know, it's something that you
have to discuss. Even let's say you're married, you have
a relationship, you have your own household, your parents may
not live with you. But now to make the decision
as a couple, as your own individual family, to say,
my mother, whether it's a grandmother or the father or
(20:36):
the grandfather of your children, my mother, my father is
going through a situation. As a family, the family decision
should be we need to provide assistant help and have
them come into our household. That's another conversation that can
get very very difficult, you know, because it may not
just be yours. What about it it's the grand you know,
(20:56):
the father or the mother of your significant other, you know,
your husband or your wife's mother or father. Now you
have to bring them into your household. Moving in your
parents into your household in order to take care of
them and provide for them because they need of you,
they need your assistant can be very challenging. You know,
you can also create precious moments together as a family,
as a household, and I think that that can also
(21:18):
bring a lot of balance, right, I mean as a
way of also honoring your parents, But it can bring
a lot of balance in the aspect of maybe this
person may be able to help you with your kids
while you're at work, right, or maybe they can because
they need help themselves. It's a lot to think about.
It's a lot, but at least you have them with you.
I also think and know, like I said before, my
(21:39):
daughters have brought a lot of you know, joy to
my parents' spirit, and I think it's important to also
create a space where they can thrive and you know,
share laughters and tears and you know, cherish moments together
as a family, as a household. And I continue to
say family because I feel that we have disconnected ourselves
from our family values. So someone with familiar no so
(22:04):
someone that amilia. Family shouldn't just come together when it's
time for barbecue, cookouts, for funerals, for birthday parties. It
shouldn't be like that. When your family needs of you,
This is the moment to prove that you are really family.
And in many occasions you could be sick, but just
having that laughter, that joy, having music around, having you know,
(22:26):
someone comb your hair and give you a hug and
give you a nice compliment. All those little things can
truly affect the way that you feel, even health wise.
You know, there's people that have been able to live
a longer life because they've been able to be around love,
be around people that actually care for them and are
there for them. Oh no, no, this yeah, seem one
can say like this because I am not necessarily one
(22:48):
hundred percent in it. I do have two elderly you know,
parents who both have a lot of health issues, who
both are consistently in the hospital every so often, while
also having two babies. You know what I'm saying, There
are fifteen months and it's a lot of responsibility. And
in my case, I am the mother and father of
my mother and my father, and I am the mother
(23:09):
and father of my kids, and I'm still out here
working and it's a lot of my plate. So thank
god I've been able to financially stay afloat and live
a different lifestyle. But for those I can't, I wonder
how do they make the decision of not you guys
to go, but I can't do it? You know, how
do I go about it? And how can I also
(23:32):
put you in the right place? For you, not the cheapest,
because that's another thing where you're talking about someone that's
going to be taking care of your family. The same
way that you would do research, you know about putting
your kids on a daycare center that you want to
make sure that your kids is good, the same effort
you should put into figuring out what nurses this. How
long have you been in the business. You know, what
(23:54):
food are they feeding you? Are they giving you your
meds on time? All those things are necessary. And I
know that there's a lot of you know, work and
it's a lot of weight on your shoulders, but you
got to make it happen.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
You do have to make it happen. That's where the
home health agencies come in and be very cognizant of
your surroundings and the home health agency that you pick,
you know.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Look at the ratings, look at new reviews and things
like that.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Visit the facilities, speak to the nurses. You know, do
your homework, do your background. Like you said, it's the
same thing just like you do research for your children.
So it's very important you remember they're human beings and.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Not only just thinking about human beings. I mean, now
once your parents gets sick or once your parents no
longer can do for themselves the way that you know
you wish that they could if you were to put
them in these centers. I don't know. I feel like
if I had my mother God forbid, or my father
and a center where they can provide and help for them,
I would literally check them like I would do my kids.
(25:00):
Your back, I'm gonna check your butt, I'm gonna check
your legs, I'm gonna check your chest, in your arms,
is there any bruises, any scratches, bed sores? And many occasions.
We also have to remember that there's a lot of
older people that don't even remember you at a certain
you know, Alzheimer's okay, they don't remember you and dementia,
and it's hard for them to even speak to you
(25:20):
and tell you. Look, they're doing this to me, this
happened to me. They may not be able to move,
they may they may be scared to even tell you
because they've been threatened. There's so many things to it
that you really gotta talk it through and think it
out and figure out what's the best decision. All I'm
gonna say is pray to God, ask God to enlighten
you ask God to provide the answer to guide your steps.
(25:44):
I'm a big person in prayer, you know, ask for
guidance because sometimes you may not feel that you know
you're making the right decision. I hope that this conversation
inspires you to want to go home and have a
conversation with your parents about if God forbid something were
to happen to you, how would you want me to
handle it. What would you like me to do for you?
(26:04):
What would make you more comfortable? Do you mind? Can
we have a conversation about doing a testament, all those things,
you know, getting an attorney, all these things need to
be spoken about. I know it's a really hard decision
to make. Debbie. I want to thank you so much
for joining me today because I know that at one
point you also worked as a nurse and you were
able to see and be in the same space of
(26:26):
seeing how they're taken care of. And I know that
there's a lot of great elderly homes. There's a lot
of great nurses out there that really, you know, take
their job seriously and they make their patience, you know,
their families, and I respect that and for all of
those that are out there right now, going to school
to you know, be a caregiver. You know those that
are currently doing it. I personally want to thank you.
(26:49):
Thank you so much for being the best that you
can be, for taking time out of your day, out
of your life, out of your career to be that
helping hand to a family that needs guys, guidence to
a person who needs assistance. Thank you so much. All
I'm going to say is, if you could take anything home,
pray on it, do your research, talk as a family.
(27:11):
As a family, have that conversation now. Don't wait till
it's too late. Have that conversation now where you guys
figure out what would be the steps to take, whether
it is from funeral services, whether it is finding a
good caregiver, finding out someone that you know, what would
be the plan financially? Can we start separating some money
for in a case of an emergency. Can we start
figuring out, you know, whether it is that I may
(27:33):
get sick. If I get sick, what do you guys
do then? You know, do we have health insurance and
you haven't had health insurance. That's something that's extremely important
that you guys should really look into now and There's
a lot of assistance out there as well. There is
always somebody out there that has good intentions and that
is willing to be a helping hand when you don't
know what to do in these occasions. Because I personally
(27:56):
don't know what to do, I know it's a really
tough conversation. I feel that at one point, very soon,
I'm going to have to have that conversation with my
mother and my father on what am I going to do?
How am I going to provide assistance for you? Are
you guys going to stay here? Does my father want
to go back to the Dominican Republic and have his
family take care of him because it's maybe cheaper out there.
(28:17):
This is so tough. If you're going through a similar experiences,
or if you've gone through anything like this in the past,
feel free to hit me up, give me some comments,
let me read it, tell me where to go, how
do I search it?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
What do I do?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is such a tough, tough topic, but I'm glad
that we're talking about it. I'm hoping I am able
to inspire or motivate any of you guys to start
this conversation today and not wait till it's too late,
and I want to thank you guys so much for
being part of Exactly Amada. Once again, I am so
grateful to every single one of you. Thank you for
all the love and support, for the reviews and the subscription.
(28:50):
Thank you so so much. Make sure to find me
on YouTube. Catch my show by searching for my Quick
with a podcast on YouTube and clicking on exactly Amada.
Follow me also on Instagram at Amara lanegra a l
n Amada La nigra a l N. And remember that
this has been a production of Ihearts micro Buddha Podcast Network.
This has been exactly a Mada
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