June 16, 2023 • 38 mins
We continue our conversation with Root of Evil Producer and Creator Zak Levitt. On this episode, we learn the true identity of Fauna Hodel's father. And whether it truly was George Hodel.
Plus, listen to Zak Levitt's new show The Set. The Set tells the inside story of policing in Harlem's 30th precinct, during its most vulnerable time. 33 of its officers were arrested and convicted of corruption, and the precinct came to be known as "The Dirty 30." The Set is a cautionary tale of what can happen when the world's largest police department fails to police itself, and how easy it can become for good cops to turn bad - all told by the people who lived it. The first three episodes are available starting June 14th, with new episodes every week. Or you can binge all 10 episodes exclusively on the Audacy app.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we're picking up
(00:30):
right where we left off on the previous episode. We're
joined by Zach Levitt, producer and creator of the podcast
Root of Evil. Last episode, we revealed what was left
on the cutting room floor of Root of Evil, including
new information about the true relationship between George Hodell and
Fauna Hodel. We continue that conversation now.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So we now know for a fact that George Hodell
was not our mother's father, not the father.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But wait for it, y'all. Wait for it, y'all. We
know who her father is.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We knew that George Hodel was not our mother's father
in the year twenty eighteen. Yes, so, mister Zach Levitt,
can you tell us and our listeners? Of course we know,
but tell our listeners why that fact was not in
(01:33):
Root of Evil.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
At the time. I was so upset about it not
being in the podcast, and I wanted an opportunity to
talk about it, and it was something that I thought
about day and night for months and months and months.
I was devastated, and I can use that word. I
was devastated, absolutely, And I don't want to get ahead
of the story, but I just I'm going to circle
(01:56):
back in a second. But my point is that I
wanted to talk about it so badly, even though I
wasn't quite sure how to. And we spoke about it many,
many times, and I could have come out on Twitter
somewhere and said we found the results. George is not
the father, but it wasn't my story to tell. And
(02:19):
I knew that whoever revealed this news, it couldn't be
me because I'm not a member of the family. You know,
it was about your mother, so it was going to
be the two of you that would reveal it. And
I think Steve may have blogged something about it on
his website. I can't I can't remember, but yes, So
time went on and I saw the reaction that the
(02:42):
audience had to the show, and you know, sometimes you
don't want to fuck with that, yeah, right, And so
I sort of said to myself, Okay, people love the show.
Would it have been a better ending perhaps? Would it
have provided closure to the family, Yes, yes, ye. Would
it have prevented some possible bad feelings after the fact
(03:06):
of well why didn't it get used? Absolutely? But you know,
the audience doesn't know what they.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Don't know, right, right, right.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So you're always cutting things out. You're always always cutting
things out of a story. There's this term don't kill
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, and
and sometimes it's a good thing. If you're losing amazing
moments from a show, it can be a good thing
because that means that, you know, you got to cut
(03:36):
it down for clarity or whatever the case may be.
And whatever's left is the really good stuff. And so
I said to myself, Okay, people have responded, they love
the show. The great stuff is in there. Move on
with your life, which it took me a while. We know, yes,
we do know, we know now why wasn't it in there?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Tell us this is the question.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
As everybody knows. And we began talking about making the
show and what led to making the show, that this
was the sister podcast or the shoulder content.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Whatever, companion podcast.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah, companion podcast to the TNT show I Am the Knight,
which was made by Patty Jenkins, who is an incredible
director who directed Wonder Woman and Monster Right. Yeah, and
so I said, holy shit, Okay, I'm going to be
working on a podcast where you know, the person putting
the show together is a massive director and her husband.
(04:37):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And of course going back to this idea of my
first call with Sam when he mentioned, hey, the girls
have these profiles of their DNA and Fauna's DNA on
twenty three and meter. But I told him, don't go
forward with anything until you talk to Zach and he
starts doing the podcast. Now fast forward to eight months
(05:02):
later whatever it was, where I now have the results
of that DNA test that they didn't really know about.
They were in the same boat as I was with
not really understanding it and okay, twenty three ae meters,
what is it going to tell you? No, we took
it an extra step further. We put it on this
other website which revealed whether Fauna was a product of
(05:23):
incest unbeknownst to anybody. You know, this is just me
making the story that I wanted to make. We have
those results, and I was given to TNT's credit and
everybody else's credit carte blanche to make the story that
I wanted to make, and we did that unbeknownst to them.
We found the results and we recorded those results. And
(05:46):
once the people putting together I Am the Knight heard that,
I think it became an issue. Well I shouldn't say
I think it became an issue because the podcast was
being released around the same time as the TV show, right,
sister content companion podcast whatever. And that question of who
(06:09):
Fauna's father was, whether it was George or not, is
a theme in the I Am the Night.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Show, Yeah, which is inspired loosely inspired by Mom's life,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Ours was the true story the documentary, So that theme
of who Fauna's father was was a George is and
I don't remember the show, but it certainly comes up
and is sort of left unanswered.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But that's where it leaves you thinking that George's Mom's father.
That's where it ends. We should say yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Exactly, which is certainly more interesting and goes along with
the crazy story and yeah, but we have the answer, right,
We actually have the answer now, Yeah, and we're going
to put it out there and everybody's going to hear it,
and we're going to have some closure for the actual
(07:00):
family that inspired this story. And that was always my motivation.
It had nothing to do and I say this in
all sincerity. For me, it was like, I knew it
would be an interesting moment for the audience, but it
was about providing closure to all of you who were
so generous with your time and emotions and lives and
(07:23):
all these things. And I wanted to give that to
all of you. I really wanted to, and we did,
and we gave you that moment. And then I hear
you need to take that out of the end of
the show. I'm like, wait, what you have to take
that out of the end of the show. It's going
to and these are my words, this is not anybody
(07:44):
else's words. It's going to potentially upcut the fictionalized version
because we put it out there that there is no answer,
and now if there is an answer, it's going to
upcut it. And so when I heard that, I was floridite.
So I sent the results. I sent all of this
other evidence that I had gathered that repts. Yeah, all
(08:06):
the receipts along the way there were articles written saying
that George was not the father, and you know, nobody
had had the proof that we had, but it had
been speculated on for for years. And if anything, this
is going to help the show, right, Like here, here
was my sort of pitch. You know, we've we've agreed
(08:26):
to tell this nonfiction this this this documentary story. We
have it. There's this other story that is slightly you know,
leaves things sort of out there in the ether. Why
can't they both live together? And really the story is okay,
we picked up where I Am the Night left off, right.
(08:47):
Patty did tell me in in that conversation, you know,
talk about this, tell tell this story. It just wasn't
the right time for the show. And in fact, the
first time I heard about DNA was from the showrunner.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
So you were very confused.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Right, My sort of thought was, isn't this a great story? Like,
isn't this a good story? We're providing the family closure.
It can be both, it can be here's the real story,
here's the fictionalized story. They're both great. If they love
the limited series I Am the Night, that will drive
them to the podcast to hear more or vice versa.
If they love Root of Evil. They'll go to the
(09:27):
TV show and watch the show, and can't this moment live,
you know, for the sake of the family members and
the audience and all of that. And to my utter disappointment,
the answer was no. And so I do have to
say this, and I have to reiterate this. The process
(09:48):
of working with TNT and with everybody else was amazing.
From start to finish. They were hands off. They let
me tell the story, they were hearing rough cuts. They
knew how good it was going to be, or I
shouldn't say that. They knew that it had the potential
to be, to be interesting, to be big, and they
they let me be. But there was this one moment
(10:11):
where I think Patty decided that, you know, we don't
want to have that on. It's it's not going to
serve the show. I am the Knight in a meaningful way.
And and in her defense, I totally get that I
would have done the exact same thing if it were
my show, because you don't want anything to take away
(10:31):
from your show. And of course they're thinking from the
very beginning, was you know this podcast?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Like they had no idea?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, oh nobody did. And I didn't have any idea,
but but they, you know, it was, Okay, we're gonna
we're gonna drive an audience to the TV show. And
if we're going to do that, why would we want
the listeners of Root of Evil to have this information
in their minds as they're watching the TV show. It
will their interpretation of the story for the TV show
(11:03):
in a negative way. And I totally get that. Yeah,
I totally get that, especially from a director's perspective, that
is the last problem you want. So I don't fault
Patty or Sam or anybody in any way, shape or form.
They did what was right for their show, which there
would be no podcast if it weren't for that TV show.
(11:25):
So I think that that is a really important point
to make. And I'm not you know, just trying to
be you know, magnanimous in any way like that. That
is truly how I feel like if I were if
the shoe were on the other foot, I would have
probably done the exact same thing, because you don't want
anything messing with your story, and it could have messed
with the story. Now that being said, it fucked me up,
(11:50):
I know, yes, I know, because not only did it
pull the teeth out of this story that I had
built up until that point, and what the hell am
I going to do? And now it's going to fall flat.
It's just going to be this, you know, moment with
everybody together and emoting. We don't have any real information
(12:13):
as far as George Hode, I mean, George Hodell is
sort of, you know, this looming figure in the entire series. Yes,
so not only can we bring the family together, but
we can answer this question and really just tie up
every loose end in this moment. And I had to
convince myself that Shita life is loose. Ends don't always
(12:33):
get tied up. They just sort of stay loose and
you got to live with it. But it really really
messed me up for a while as far as feeling
so upset that that wasn't going to be there. But
more so than anything, it was telling the family I
can't put.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
This in yeah, that your hands are tied, I.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Think, sort of explaining that this is not my decision.
Like I fought for this. I had the DNA expert
who I spoke to initially on the phone when we
were talking with TNT and with the creators of I
Am the Night. I had the DNA expert on to
help make this case. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't to be
(13:17):
And so I had to live with it. And it sucked.
And I know it sucked even way more for you
guys and for Steve and and love, peace and joy
and fun of two and and uh, it sucked for
everybody to not be able to have some closure to
to that piece of the story, which I think they
all felt. You know, it was going to be negative.
(13:39):
George wasn't the father, but to be able to.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Tell the public definitively tie that up, definitively to the public, no,
he's not the father.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
To not be able to have that that stuck with me,
I would say for more than a year. I couldn't
get over that.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
You're just being real.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, it was truly a betrayal, you know, to the family.
(14:22):
That's what we felt. And when we got that call
from Patty, you know, saying that it wasn't going to
be in I mean, we were devastated, but we were
put in the middle, you know what I mean, And
we said what we had to say because we wanted
that in rud of evil, like you said, it was
(14:43):
so powerful, it was so profound and it was the
perfect ending to the true story. But like I told you,
I'll never forget sitting in the car when we were
going to the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was the beginning
of twenty twenty in January. Yeah, and I remember saying
to you that Rude of Evil was your baby. I
(15:06):
Am the Knight was Patty's baby. And you know, we're
trying to make the both of you happy because there's
that loyalty right to Patty, who brought Mom's you know
movie to Fruition, you know, her lifelong dream.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Right. I wouldn't have been making this podcast without her. Yeah,
absolutely right right.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I'll never forget having that conversation with Patty and with Sam.
And of course after we fought for it and we
realized we were losing the battle, Patty did tell us
because she's you know, become Mohamma to us over the years,
she told us, she said, you girls, this is your story.
You can tell this story however you want to tell it,
(15:50):
just not now. So that's why we're here today. That's
why it's so apropos that we're telling the world with you, Zach,
because we've even looking for a vehicle and trying to
figure out how we were going to tell the world.
One George Hodel is not our mother Fano Hodel's father,
He's only her grandfather. And two we get to reveal
(16:13):
to the world today who are Mom's biological father really was.
And you were the one that was supposed to be
here with Vett and I to tell the world.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
That absolutely and full circle, things happen the way they're
supposed to happen.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
I truly believe that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
And like Russia just said, you know, we started with
you and we're going to end with you by sharing this,
you know, this discovery that we've been wanting to know
for so long.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So with all of that being said, take you back right,
So all of us before Mom died from breast cancer
in September of twenty seventeen, our uncle Joy gifted all
of us I swear twenty three and me needs to
sponsor this episod, but gifted us all twenty three and
meters DNA kids. So we all did it, including our mom,
(17:07):
And that is how we got all of that, right,
That's how we got That's how we figured out that
George was not her father. Of course we didn't find
that out till after Mom died. But fast forward, so
twenty eighteen is when we all found out that George
was not Mom's father. Fast forward to twenty twenty two.
(17:27):
Both Vet and I get an alert, Hey, you have
a new DNA relative, which that happens all the time,
because there's you know, five thousand.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Removed cousins whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
We've been looking since twenty seventeen for anyone that he
Vet and I are related to that are not related
to the Hodels. We're talking because Peace and Joy did
their DNA as well as Steve and F two. Love
is the only one that didn't do it on that side.
And so someone came up and it came up as
(17:56):
like a close DNA relative. And this is August of
twenty two two, right before we're going to leave for
podcast movement. Our lives are changing, Facing Evil had just launched.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I'm sitting in the beauty salon getting my hair
done and Rash just sends me this message and I
was like, holy shit, it was screenshots.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And when I sent her the screenshot, I'm like, there's
this guy named Mario Delo Sada who is a relative
on Mom's side. All these things and I didn't realize
when I sent her the screenshot because I logged in
because I still have moms log in for her twenty
three and meters. I logged in his mom after I
sent her the screenshot. Took screen quick screenshots from moms
because you can see more when it's your own profile.
(18:40):
And it's like, I was Fana Hodel in that moment,
and it said Fana Hodel's half sibling and not related
to any of the Hodels, so all the Hodels are
half siblings, so that gets even more complicated.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
But I was like, what right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It has no photo, just has a name and it
says born nineteen fifty eight Mario del Sada, And I'm like.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
We're literally just about to get on a plane to
go to Dallas, Texas to go to podcast movement.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
And I did a deep dive.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I googled every Mario de Losada you could find, and
within about twenty minutes I found him on Facebook. And
you know, he's gonna think I'm crazy by messaging him
and being like, hey, you know I think you're related
to us anyway, Long rabbit hole down. Within about an
hour and a half, of us finding that original thing.
(19:28):
I sent messages to Mario on Instagram, Facebook twenty three
and meters and then we got a message back from
his sister named Judy de Losada.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
But in that hour and a half, you can imagine,
you know, the anxiety, the surrealness, the like like you're
closing on your show exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And Duty messaged back and she said, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Mario is on a flight, you know, to Atlanta, and
they all live in Canada.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
So I was like, yeah, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I'm like, I don't Annie was too pretty, and she's like, yep,
that's him.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
He was born in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And before she told me our grandfather's name, I had
found it and I was.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Like, oh my god, I think it's Gus de Losada.
I think it's Gus de Losada. And I broke down
in tears. You've it.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Broke down in tears, and I told Judy, I said,
I know you're going to google us as soon as
you see all these messages. Please don't freak out, but
you and Mario have just proven that mom one hundred
million percent, that Mom was not the product of incest
by finding Mario.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And in that moment, like for me, I was sitting
in the you know, in the in the salon, it
felt like the gates of heaven like just opened, and
I could see my mom's face like just smiling with
the biggest, brightest smile and such.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
A relief I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I was like Mom, I was like, Mama, we did it.
We know, we know that fucker wasn't your dad. You
know what I mean, because you know, when you think
about it, you know, Mom searched her whole life right
for her mother. She never puts that emphasis on finding
her father because she was afraid of what she might
(21:19):
find right exactly. So to get this news and to
see these pictures in that moment was extraordinary and a
what a gift.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And we have to tell the world so that they know.
Fana Hodel's Father's name was august oracee Manuel Delo Saba
and he was born in nineteen twenty seven and sadly
died in nineteen eighty. He had three children after Mom,
(21:55):
one child before her. Actually, while we were at podcast Movement,
we face timed with them. We spoke with all of them,
and they're all beautiful gorgeous, amazing souls.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I have to tell one story too, because you know
when we were speaking to the whole family, when we
finally got on a video chat with the whole family,
and I said, so, Mario, this is one of the
you know, one of the brothers, Our's off brother, our uncle.
I said, so why now, why did you decide to
go on twenty three and me now? And he goes, well,
(22:30):
it was on.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Sale on Amazon Prime Day right, it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Was ninety nine random? Yeah, yeah. And I was like,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
August went by Gus.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
He had a beautiful relationship with his entire family accepted Mario,
and Mario came out at a very young age. For
all accounts and purposes, he was a beautiful human being,
and he was Spanish and Ecuadorian and he lived in
San Francisco. Like everything lined up. We found Census, we
found passports, photos, photos, yes, which now we can post
(23:11):
and share, and now we can tell the hotels. We
haven't told them yet because we wanted to do it
the right way.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
That is really exciting. So not only did we find
out that George wasn't the father, but now we know
who he actually is and that that is real.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Closure, that is real close.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yes, So that first video call with the De Loosadas,
our auntie Judy told us, She's like, so, you know,
I watched the Doctor Phil show with you and Evet
and your great uncle Steve, and he was trying to
say that, you know, our dad raped your grandmother Tamar,
(23:56):
and she was just like, there's no way. There's apps
you know. She's like, she's like, there is no way.
And I just want to put that out there that
this was a one night encounter. None of us know
what really happened. Everyone who is involved is not alive anymore.
But I do want to say on behalf of the
De Losadas that there's like, there's no way. Our father
(24:18):
was a beautiful, loving, kind man. I just I just
have to say that. That's what she told us, and
we're like, yeah, sorry about sorry about that, sorry about
doctor Phil, but we love doctor Phil obviously.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well yeah, I mean that was the information that everybody
had at that time, you know, and now you have
new information exactly. I was just going to say, how
do you feel knowing who it is now?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It's a piece within you know for me, you know,
being the eldest. And I just have to say, from
the time I was very young and hearing this story,
I never accepted that. Ask me why. I don't know,
It's just my personality. I didn't accept it. But you know,
when Mom passed and we asked her, you know, did
(25:01):
she believe that George was her father? And she said yes,
that starts to resonate in your head that the possibility
is very true. And you know, then to go on
root of Evil and find out all of these things
you just didn't know, you know, but to have a
definitive answer of who it puts me at peace. But
(25:22):
more so than me, Zach, I feel the peace in
my mom's spirit.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
That's the gift, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I always thought that George was our mom's father because
of all the questions that I had asked my grandmother
tomorrow over the years, and Mom's evasiveness to talk about
it and all of that, and obviously like to you know,
a few days before Tamar died herself, she died in
twenty fifteen, she said the same thing out.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Loud, that she thought that George was the father.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Our mom said it a few days before she died
in twenty seventeen that she thought that George was the father,
and the sad part is that he could have been.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
And so for me when I found out.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Definitively that we knew who the father was, because we
didn't know if it was John Houston Man Ray some
random rumor at the Franklin Souden house.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
We had no idea.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
But I love the fact that we now know that
there was this beautiful human and this beautiful family, and
like we know where Mom got her kindness from. Like
the Delo Sadas just have this oozing warmth and sincerity
and kindness and supportiveness, and I'm like, oh, like just
(26:38):
the breath.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Absolutely, absolutely, it really is.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We haven't met them, the Delosadas in person yet because
they all live in Canada now, but we're in you know,
we're in constant communication on social media.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
We got their blessing. We're like, hey, we're going to
tell the world.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
They're like, yeah, like they only wish they could have
met Mom. But we've told them just like we told you,
you know, you know, Fana Hodel, through the two of us,
through us, through her girls, beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I love that you were able to have that moment
And now can you know see where the next chapter goes.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We're just going to get right into this because you
know you've talked about throughout this podcast how you hate
your voice, which we don't understand why why that is,
but we know you have a fabulous voice, and you
just have to tell us about this new podcast that
you are hosting called the Set about the Dirty thirty.
(27:59):
I know that it's said in the late eighties nineties
about the whole Wild Kingdom, the Crack Empire, the heroin
the stage houses. I mean, get into is Zach tell us.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean,
the biggest scandal in NYPD history. And I was actually
doing research for season four of another show that I
have done called Gangster Capitalism. We just came off of
season three, which was about Jerry Folwell Junior and Liberty University,
(28:33):
which was a very rewarding process for me, advocating on
behalf of sexual violence survivors on campus where the school
covered it up, and I was able to connect them
with an attorney who ended up suing the school on
behalf of twenty two. Jane Does sued the school successfully
and wowow, So it was a really rewarding process, and
(28:57):
the show did really well, and I was looking for
a topic for the fourth season, and I was literally
googling corrupt industries, what will come up? And you know,
I was doing all sorts of research and pharma and
the auto industry and not saying that they're corrupt as
a whole, but specific stories that I was sort of
(29:19):
circling around. And I went down the rabbit hole and
I realized that there was this precinct, the thirtieth Precinct
in the NYPD, which is located in West Harlem in
the northern northwestern end of Manhattan during the height of
the crack epidemic. It was a level of corruption that
I had never imagined or even heard about, cops actually
(29:43):
robbing drug dealers and then selling the stolen drugs back
to friendly drug dealers, so they were essentially drug dealers themselves.
The next step that I always do in this situation is, hmm,
what's been done on this? Because for sure, there have
been ten documentaries about this already made, and I'm so
(30:05):
late to the game because it's thirty years later, and
to my utter disbelief and happiness, nothing the story had
never been told. And I said, holy shit, how has
this story never been told in narrative form other than
you know, sort of the news writers at the time
(30:25):
who were on the police beat, just reporting the news
of the day. And I thought to myself, Wow, this
this could be really big. And what I often do
in these situations is I bite off way more than
I can chew. And I'm thinking this could be a
story about New York City itself and policing, and you know,
told through the prism of this one precinct and this
(30:47):
commission that was formed, the MOLN Commission that was formed
to look into police corruption. If I can get people
to talk, it could be a highly entertaining show. But
it also could be and this is where my mind
always goes, it could also teach us sort of what
can happen, I guess when policing goes wrong, you know.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
The ultimate power interruption?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yeah, what can happen when a police department does not
police itself? And so I thought that that question is
one worthy of diving into and one that should never
go away, right because what happened with the Dirty thirty
in New York City and the crack era is exactly
(31:32):
what happens when the police department fails to police itself,
And so I began doing my research, and I connected
with the attorney of who I thought could be the
main character or sort of the person through whose eyes
a lot of this would would be seen, and who
was taken for an insane ride himself at Barry Brown.
(31:55):
And I connected with Barry Brown. And Barry Brown was
a fan of the basketball documentaries that I had done,
so he knew who I was, and we hit it off,
and he had never really told his story, and he
was willing to tell it, and so we developed a
relationship in much the same way that the two of
you and I developed our relationship, and he trusted me
(32:19):
with it. And in addition to Barry, I ended up
connecting with most of the surviving members of the Malan Commission,
who was impaneled to investigate police corruption at the time
and happened upon this precinct that was filled with corruption
and opened it up for the world to see. So
(32:41):
I connected with all of them, including the investigators, and
then I connected with federal and state prosecutors, and the
state prosecutors were working for Robert Morgenthaugh at the time,
who was the most powerful DA in the country known
as the Boss, with this incredible reputation, and Mary Joe
White was the US Attorney and there became this enormous
(33:03):
turf war that happened behind the scenes. I ended up
getting some of the cops who were convicted of corruption.
So it's a really round story. And for the first time,
I think it's I don't think it's a stretch. It's
not a stretch. It's the truth to say that this
is the first time that this story is being told
(33:24):
by the people who lived it. And it is cops
dealing drugs, it's cops perjuring themselves. It is the police
department reacting to it and cleaning things up. It is
the turf war that went on behind the scenes between
Robert Morgenthal, the Boss, the DA and the Molon Commission
(33:45):
and the Southern District of New York. And that story
has never been told. And the pawn who is in
the middle of all of it, who gets fucked over.
And it is all told in this landscape of the
crack epidemic and what West Harlem and other communities were
put through because these police were not out policing, they
(34:07):
were in it for themselves. There are all these crazy moments. Yeah,
but at the end of the day, it's a story
that I think could happen in any city when the
police department does not police itself. Yet this is a
uniquely New York story as well, and so I hope
that it will really resonate with the audience. I think
(34:29):
it will.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
It will.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Can you tell our listeners exactly when it's going to launch?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, So the first three episodes are coming out on
June fourteenth. Again, it's called the Set Set and you'll
find out what that means as you listen, and it
will be ten episodes released weekly. You can also binge
it on the Odyssey app.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Well, we are so excited and honored to listen to it,
to promote it, to do all the things.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
All the things, Yes, Zach, from the bottom of our hearts,
you know you. You will forever be our brother from
another mother. We love you. You are our family, You
are o'hanna, and we are forever grateful for you and
to you. So thank you so much again for being
(35:21):
with us today. It was it was the reunion of
a lifetime.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Thank you, and and right back at you, Vet. I mean,
I feel the same way about the both of you.
I'm so happy to see you doing what you love
to do. And thank you for having me on. Thank
you for you know, for having this for them to
talk about all these things, about this moment in our
lives where we came together and and uh and and
(35:48):
and did this thing and and uh and of course
thank you for allowing me to talk about the set.
I will be a fan of both of you forever.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to our mama,
Fauna Fanna Hodel. Her life's mission has become our mission
to share stories of how we can all overcome and
be the light.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Our emua also goes out to our guests today, mister
Zach Lovett, who our mother would have loved with every
ounce of her heart and soul just like we do,
because he took her life's work and he turned it
into a true masterpiece of storytelling. We are forever grateful
(36:38):
for the gift that Zach and our mom have given us.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It is all about the storytelling, and one thing that
we know for sure is we can all learn from
one another and move onward and upward. Emua, emua, emua.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Find us on social media or email us at facingebl
pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And one small request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
a good review. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero in a Vetchintile,
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of iHeart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk,
Donald Albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf
(38:07):
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is
Carolyn Talmage. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find
us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod at
Tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(38:31):
to your favorite shows
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Today, we're picking up
(00:30):
right where we left off on the previous episode. We're
joined by Zach Levitt, producer and creator of the podcast
Root of Evil. Last episode, we revealed what was left
on the cutting room floor of Root of Evil, including
new information about the true relationship between George Hodell and
Fauna Hodel. We continue that conversation now.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So we now know for a fact that George Hodell
was not our mother's father, not the father.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Nope.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But wait for it, y'all. Wait for it, y'all. We
know who her father is.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We knew that George Hodel was not our mother's father
in the year twenty eighteen. Yes, so, mister Zach Levitt,
can you tell us and our listeners? Of course we know,
but tell our listeners why that fact was not in
(01:33):
Root of Evil.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
At the time. I was so upset about it not
being in the podcast, and I wanted an opportunity to
talk about it, and it was something that I thought
about day and night for months and months and months.
I was devastated, and I can use that word. I
was devastated, absolutely, And I don't want to get ahead
of the story, but I just I'm going to circle
(01:56):
back in a second. But my point is that I
wanted to talk about it so badly, even though I
wasn't quite sure how to. And we spoke about it many,
many times, and I could have come out on Twitter
somewhere and said we found the results. George is not
the father, but it wasn't my story to tell. And
(02:19):
I knew that whoever revealed this news, it couldn't be
me because I'm not a member of the family. You know,
it was about your mother, so it was going to
be the two of you that would reveal it. And
I think Steve may have blogged something about it on
his website. I can't I can't remember, but yes, So
time went on and I saw the reaction that the
(02:42):
audience had to the show, and you know, sometimes you
don't want to fuck with that, yeah, right, And so
I sort of said to myself, Okay, people love the show.
Would it have been a better ending perhaps? Would it
have provided closure to the family, Yes, yes, ye. Would
it have prevented some possible bad feelings after the fact
(03:06):
of well why didn't it get used? Absolutely? But you know,
the audience doesn't know what they.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Don't know, right, right, right.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So you're always cutting things out. You're always always cutting
things out of a story. There's this term don't kill
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right, and
and sometimes it's a good thing. If you're losing amazing
moments from a show, it can be a good thing
because that means that, you know, you got to cut
(03:36):
it down for clarity or whatever the case may be.
And whatever's left is the really good stuff. And so
I said to myself, Okay, people have responded, they love
the show. The great stuff is in there. Move on
with your life, which it took me a while. We know, yes,
we do know, we know now why wasn't it in there?
Speaker 5 (03:56):
Tell us this is the question.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
As everybody knows. And we began talking about making the
show and what led to making the show, that this
was the sister podcast or the shoulder content.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
Whatever, companion podcast.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Yeah, companion podcast to the TNT show I Am the Knight,
which was made by Patty Jenkins, who is an incredible
director who directed Wonder Woman and Monster Right. Yeah, and
so I said, holy shit, Okay, I'm going to be
working on a podcast where you know, the person putting
the show together is a massive director and her husband.
(04:37):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Pretty cool.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
And of course going back to this idea of my
first call with Sam when he mentioned, hey, the girls
have these profiles of their DNA and Fauna's DNA on
twenty three and meter. But I told him, don't go
forward with anything until you talk to Zach and he
starts doing the podcast. Now fast forward to eight months
(05:02):
later whatever it was, where I now have the results
of that DNA test that they didn't really know about.
They were in the same boat as I was with
not really understanding it and okay, twenty three ae meters,
what is it going to tell you? No, we took
it an extra step further. We put it on this
other website which revealed whether Fauna was a product of
(05:23):
incest unbeknownst to anybody. You know, this is just me
making the story that I wanted to make. We have
those results, and I was given to TNT's credit and
everybody else's credit carte blanche to make the story that
I wanted to make, and we did that unbeknownst to them.
We found the results and we recorded those results. And
(05:46):
once the people putting together I Am the Knight heard that,
I think it became an issue. Well I shouldn't say
I think it became an issue because the podcast was
being released around the same time as the TV show, right,
sister content companion podcast whatever. And that question of who
(06:09):
Fauna's father was, whether it was George or not, is
a theme in the I Am the Night.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Show, Yeah, which is inspired loosely inspired by Mom's life,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Ours was the true story the documentary, So that theme
of who Fauna's father was was a George is and
I don't remember the show, but it certainly comes up
and is sort of left unanswered.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
But that's where it leaves you thinking that George's Mom's father.
That's where it ends. We should say yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Exactly, which is certainly more interesting and goes along with
the crazy story and yeah, but we have the answer, right,
We actually have the answer now, Yeah, and we're going
to put it out there and everybody's going to hear it,
and we're going to have some closure for the actual
(07:00):
family that inspired this story. And that was always my motivation.
It had nothing to do and I say this in
all sincerity. For me, it was like, I knew it
would be an interesting moment for the audience, but it
was about providing closure to all of you who were
so generous with your time and emotions and lives and
(07:23):
all these things. And I wanted to give that to
all of you. I really wanted to, and we did,
and we gave you that moment. And then I hear
you need to take that out of the end of
the show. I'm like, wait, what you have to take
that out of the end of the show. It's going
to and these are my words, this is not anybody
(07:44):
else's words. It's going to potentially upcut the fictionalized version
because we put it out there that there is no answer,
and now if there is an answer, it's going to
upcut it. And so when I heard that, I was floridite.
So I sent the results. I sent all of this
other evidence that I had gathered that repts. Yeah, all
(08:06):
the receipts along the way there were articles written saying
that George was not the father, and you know, nobody
had had the proof that we had, but it had
been speculated on for for years. And if anything, this
is going to help the show, right, Like here, here
was my sort of pitch. You know, we've we've agreed
(08:26):
to tell this nonfiction this this this documentary story. We
have it. There's this other story that is slightly you know,
leaves things sort of out there in the ether. Why
can't they both live together? And really the story is okay,
we picked up where I Am the Night left off, right.
(08:47):
Patty did tell me in in that conversation, you know,
talk about this, tell tell this story. It just wasn't
the right time for the show. And in fact, the
first time I heard about DNA was from the showrunner.
Speaker 5 (09:03):
So you were very confused.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Right, My sort of thought was, isn't this a great story? Like,
isn't this a good story? We're providing the family closure.
It can be both, it can be here's the real story,
here's the fictionalized story. They're both great. If they love
the limited series I Am the Night, that will drive
them to the podcast to hear more or vice versa.
If they love Root of Evil. They'll go to the
(09:27):
TV show and watch the show, and can't this moment live,
you know, for the sake of the family members and
the audience and all of that. And to my utter disappointment,
the answer was no. And so I do have to
say this, and I have to reiterate this. The process
(09:48):
of working with TNT and with everybody else was amazing.
From start to finish. They were hands off. They let
me tell the story, they were hearing rough cuts. They
knew how good it was going to be, or I
shouldn't say that. They knew that it had the potential
to be, to be interesting, to be big, and they
they let me be. But there was this one moment
(10:11):
where I think Patty decided that, you know, we don't
want to have that on. It's it's not going to
serve the show. I am the Knight in a meaningful way.
And and in her defense, I totally get that I
would have done the exact same thing if it were
my show, because you don't want anything to take away
(10:31):
from your show. And of course they're thinking from the
very beginning, was you know this podcast?
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Like they had no idea?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, oh nobody did. And I didn't have any idea,
but but they, you know, it was, Okay, we're gonna
we're gonna drive an audience to the TV show. And
if we're going to do that, why would we want
the listeners of Root of Evil to have this information
in their minds as they're watching the TV show. It
will their interpretation of the story for the TV show
(11:03):
in a negative way. And I totally get that. Yeah,
I totally get that, especially from a director's perspective, that
is the last problem you want. So I don't fault
Patty or Sam or anybody in any way, shape or form.
They did what was right for their show, which there
would be no podcast if it weren't for that TV show.
(11:25):
So I think that that is a really important point
to make. And I'm not you know, just trying to
be you know, magnanimous in any way like that. That
is truly how I feel like if I were if
the shoe were on the other foot, I would have
probably done the exact same thing, because you don't want
anything messing with your story, and it could have messed
with the story. Now that being said, it fucked me up,
(11:50):
I know, yes, I know, because not only did it
pull the teeth out of this story that I had
built up until that point, and what the hell am
I going to do? And now it's going to fall flat.
It's just going to be this, you know, moment with
everybody together and emoting. We don't have any real information
(12:13):
as far as George Hode, I mean, George Hodell is
sort of, you know, this looming figure in the entire series. Yes,
so not only can we bring the family together, but
we can answer this question and really just tie up
every loose end in this moment. And I had to
convince myself that Shita life is loose. Ends don't always
(12:33):
get tied up. They just sort of stay loose and
you got to live with it. But it really really
messed me up for a while as far as feeling
so upset that that wasn't going to be there. But
more so than anything, it was telling the family I
can't put.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
This in yeah, that your hands are tied, I.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Think, sort of explaining that this is not my decision.
Like I fought for this. I had the DNA expert
who I spoke to initially on the phone when we
were talking with TNT and with the creators of I
Am the Night. I had the DNA expert on to
help make this case. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't to be
(13:17):
And so I had to live with it. And it sucked.
And I know it sucked even way more for you
guys and for Steve and and love, peace and joy
and fun of two and and uh, it sucked for
everybody to not be able to have some closure to
to that piece of the story, which I think they
all felt. You know, it was going to be negative.
(13:39):
George wasn't the father, but to be able to.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Tell the public definitively tie that up, definitively to the public, no,
he's not the father.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
To not be able to have that that stuck with me,
I would say for more than a year. I couldn't
get over that.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
You're just being real.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, it was truly a betrayal, you know, to the family.
(14:22):
That's what we felt. And when we got that call
from Patty, you know, saying that it wasn't going to
be in I mean, we were devastated, but we were
put in the middle, you know what I mean, And
we said what we had to say because we wanted
that in rud of evil, like you said, it was
(14:43):
so powerful, it was so profound and it was the
perfect ending to the true story. But like I told you,
I'll never forget sitting in the car when we were
going to the iHeartRadio Podcast Awards. It was the beginning
of twenty twenty in January. Yeah, and I remember saying
to you that Rude of Evil was your baby. I
(15:06):
Am the Knight was Patty's baby. And you know, we're
trying to make the both of you happy because there's
that loyalty right to Patty, who brought Mom's you know
movie to Fruition, you know, her lifelong dream.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Right. I wouldn't have been making this podcast without her. Yeah,
absolutely right right.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I'll never forget having that conversation with Patty and with Sam.
And of course after we fought for it and we
realized we were losing the battle, Patty did tell us
because she's you know, become Mohamma to us over the years,
she told us, she said, you girls, this is your story.
You can tell this story however you want to tell it,
(15:50):
just not now. So that's why we're here today. That's
why it's so apropos that we're telling the world with you, Zach,
because we've even looking for a vehicle and trying to
figure out how we were going to tell the world.
One George Hodel is not our mother Fano Hodel's father,
He's only her grandfather. And two we get to reveal
(16:13):
to the world today who are Mom's biological father really was.
And you were the one that was supposed to be
here with Vett and I to tell the world.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
That absolutely and full circle, things happen the way they're
supposed to happen.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
I truly believe that.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
And like Russia just said, you know, we started with
you and we're going to end with you by sharing this,
you know, this discovery that we've been wanting to know
for so long.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So with all of that being said, take you back right,
So all of us before Mom died from breast cancer
in September of twenty seventeen, our uncle Joy gifted all
of us I swear twenty three and me needs to
sponsor this episod, but gifted us all twenty three and
meters DNA kids. So we all did it, including our mom,
(17:07):
And that is how we got all of that, right,
That's how we got That's how we figured out that
George was not her father. Of course we didn't find
that out till after Mom died. But fast forward, so
twenty eighteen is when we all found out that George
was not Mom's father. Fast forward to twenty twenty two.
(17:27):
Both Vet and I get an alert, Hey, you have
a new DNA relative, which that happens all the time,
because there's you know, five thousand.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
Removed cousins whatever.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
We've been looking since twenty seventeen for anyone that he
Vet and I are related to that are not related
to the Hodels. We're talking because Peace and Joy did
their DNA as well as Steve and F two. Love
is the only one that didn't do it on that side.
And so someone came up and it came up as
(17:56):
like a close DNA relative. And this is August of
twenty two two, right before we're going to leave for
podcast movement. Our lives are changing, Facing Evil had just launched.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, I'm sitting in the beauty salon getting my hair
done and Rash just sends me this message and I
was like, holy shit, it was screenshots.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And when I sent her the screenshot, I'm like, there's
this guy named Mario Delo Sada who is a relative
on Mom's side. All these things and I didn't realize
when I sent her the screenshot because I logged in
because I still have moms log in for her twenty
three and meters. I logged in his mom after I
sent her the screenshot. Took screen quick screenshots from moms
because you can see more when it's your own profile.
(18:40):
And it's like, I was Fana Hodel in that moment,
and it said Fana Hodel's half sibling and not related
to any of the Hodels, so all the Hodels are
half siblings, so that gets even more complicated.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
But I was like, what right.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
It has no photo, just has a name and it
says born nineteen fifty eight Mario del Sada, And I'm like.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Oh my god, Oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
We're literally just about to get on a plane to
go to Dallas, Texas to go to podcast movement.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
And I did a deep dive.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I googled every Mario de Losada you could find, and
within about twenty minutes I found him on Facebook. And
you know, he's gonna think I'm crazy by messaging him
and being like, hey, you know I think you're related
to us anyway, Long rabbit hole down. Within about an
hour and a half, of us finding that original thing.
(19:28):
I sent messages to Mario on Instagram, Facebook twenty three
and meters and then we got a message back from
his sister named Judy de Losada.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
But in that hour and a half, you can imagine,
you know, the anxiety, the surrealness, the like like you're
closing on your show exactly exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And Duty messaged back and she said, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Mario is on a flight, you know, to Atlanta, and
they all live in Canada.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
So I was like, yeah, there's no way.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I'm like, I don't Annie was too pretty, and she's like, yep,
that's him.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
He was born in nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
And before she told me our grandfather's name, I had
found it and I was.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Like, oh my god, I think it's Gus de Losada.
I think it's Gus de Losada. And I broke down
in tears. You've it.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Broke down in tears, and I told Judy, I said,
I know you're going to google us as soon as
you see all these messages. Please don't freak out, but
you and Mario have just proven that mom one hundred
million percent, that Mom was not the product of incest
by finding Mario.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
And in that moment, like for me, I was sitting
in the you know, in the in the salon, it
felt like the gates of heaven like just opened, and
I could see my mom's face like just smiling with
the biggest, brightest smile and such.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
A relief I can't even imagine.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I was like Mom, I was like, Mama, we did it.
We know, we know that fucker wasn't your dad. You
know what I mean, because you know, when you think
about it, you know, Mom searched her whole life right
for her mother. She never puts that emphasis on finding
her father because she was afraid of what she might
(21:19):
find right exactly. So to get this news and to
see these pictures in that moment was extraordinary and a
what a gift.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
And we have to tell the world so that they know.
Fana Hodel's Father's name was august oracee Manuel Delo Saba
and he was born in nineteen twenty seven and sadly
died in nineteen eighty. He had three children after Mom,
(21:55):
one child before her. Actually, while we were at podcast Movement,
we face timed with them. We spoke with all of them,
and they're all beautiful gorgeous, amazing souls.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I have to tell one story too, because you know
when we were speaking to the whole family, when we
finally got on a video chat with the whole family,
and I said, so, Mario, this is one of the
you know, one of the brothers, Our's off brother, our uncle.
I said, so why now, why did you decide to
go on twenty three and me now? And he goes, well,
(22:30):
it was on.
Speaker 5 (22:31):
Sale on Amazon Prime Day right, it.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Was ninety nine random? Yeah, yeah. And I was like,
thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (22:45):
August went by Gus.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
He had a beautiful relationship with his entire family accepted Mario,
and Mario came out at a very young age. For
all accounts and purposes, he was a beautiful human being,
and he was Spanish and Ecuadorian and he lived in
San Francisco. Like everything lined up. We found Census, we
found passports, photos, photos, yes, which now we can post
(23:11):
and share, and now we can tell the hotels. We
haven't told them yet because we wanted to do it
the right way.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
That is really exciting. So not only did we find
out that George wasn't the father, but now we know
who he actually is and that that is real.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
Closure, that is real close.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yes, So that first video call with the De Loosadas,
our auntie Judy told us, She's like, so, you know,
I watched the Doctor Phil show with you and Evet
and your great uncle Steve, and he was trying to
say that, you know, our dad raped your grandmother Tamar,
(23:56):
and she was just like, there's no way. There's apps
you know. She's like, she's like, there is no way.
And I just want to put that out there that
this was a one night encounter. None of us know
what really happened. Everyone who is involved is not alive anymore.
But I do want to say on behalf of the
De Losadas that there's like, there's no way. Our father
(24:18):
was a beautiful, loving, kind man. I just I just
have to say that. That's what she told us, and
we're like, yeah, sorry about sorry about that, sorry about
doctor Phil, but we love doctor Phil obviously.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Well yeah, I mean that was the information that everybody
had at that time, you know, and now you have
new information exactly. I was just going to say, how
do you feel knowing who it is now?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
It's a piece within you know for me, you know,
being the eldest. And I just have to say, from
the time I was very young and hearing this story,
I never accepted that. Ask me why. I don't know,
It's just my personality. I didn't accept it. But you know,
when Mom passed and we asked her, you know, did
(25:01):
she believe that George was her father? And she said yes,
that starts to resonate in your head that the possibility
is very true. And you know, then to go on
root of Evil and find out all of these things
you just didn't know, you know, but to have a
definitive answer of who it puts me at peace. But
(25:22):
more so than me, Zach, I feel the peace in
my mom's spirit.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
That's the gift, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I always thought that George was our mom's father because
of all the questions that I had asked my grandmother
tomorrow over the years, and Mom's evasiveness to talk about
it and all of that, and obviously like to you know,
a few days before Tamar died herself, she died in
twenty fifteen, she said the same thing out.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Loud, that she thought that George was the father.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Our mom said it a few days before she died
in twenty seventeen that she thought that George was the father,
and the sad part is that he could have been.
Speaker 5 (26:00):
And so for me when I found out.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Definitively that we knew who the father was, because we
didn't know if it was John Houston Man Ray some
random rumor at the Franklin Souden house.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
We had no idea.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
But I love the fact that we now know that
there was this beautiful human and this beautiful family, and
like we know where Mom got her kindness from. Like
the Delo Sadas just have this oozing warmth and sincerity
and kindness and supportiveness, and I'm like, oh, like just
(26:38):
the breath.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Absolutely, absolutely, it really is.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
We haven't met them, the Delosadas in person yet because
they all live in Canada now, but we're in you know,
we're in constant communication on social media.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
We got their blessing. We're like, hey, we're going to
tell the world.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
They're like, yeah, like they only wish they could have
met Mom. But we've told them just like we told you,
you know, you know, Fana Hodel, through the two of us,
through us, through her girls, beautiful.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I love that you were able to have that moment
And now can you know see where the next chapter goes.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
We're just going to get right into this because you
know you've talked about throughout this podcast how you hate
your voice, which we don't understand why why that is,
but we know you have a fabulous voice, and you
just have to tell us about this new podcast that
you are hosting called the Set about the Dirty thirty.
(27:59):
I know that it's said in the late eighties nineties
about the whole Wild Kingdom, the Crack Empire, the heroin
the stage houses. I mean, get into is Zach tell us.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Thank you for the opportunity to talk about it. I mean,
the biggest scandal in NYPD history. And I was actually
doing research for season four of another show that I
have done called Gangster Capitalism. We just came off of
season three, which was about Jerry Folwell Junior and Liberty University,
(28:33):
which was a very rewarding process for me, advocating on
behalf of sexual violence survivors on campus where the school
covered it up, and I was able to connect them
with an attorney who ended up suing the school on
behalf of twenty two. Jane Does sued the school successfully
and wowow, So it was a really rewarding process, and
(28:57):
the show did really well, and I was looking for
a topic for the fourth season, and I was literally
googling corrupt industries, what will come up? And you know,
I was doing all sorts of research and pharma and
the auto industry and not saying that they're corrupt as
a whole, but specific stories that I was sort of
(29:19):
circling around. And I went down the rabbit hole and
I realized that there was this precinct, the thirtieth Precinct
in the NYPD, which is located in West Harlem in
the northern northwestern end of Manhattan during the height of
the crack epidemic. It was a level of corruption that
I had never imagined or even heard about, cops actually
(29:43):
robbing drug dealers and then selling the stolen drugs back
to friendly drug dealers, so they were essentially drug dealers themselves.
The next step that I always do in this situation is, hmm,
what's been done on this? Because for sure, there have
been ten documentaries about this already made, and I'm so
(30:05):
late to the game because it's thirty years later, and
to my utter disbelief and happiness, nothing the story had
never been told. And I said, holy shit, how has
this story never been told in narrative form other than
you know, sort of the news writers at the time
(30:25):
who were on the police beat, just reporting the news
of the day. And I thought to myself, Wow, this
this could be really big. And what I often do
in these situations is I bite off way more than
I can chew. And I'm thinking this could be a
story about New York City itself and policing, and you know,
told through the prism of this one precinct and this
(30:47):
commission that was formed, the MOLN Commission that was formed
to look into police corruption. If I can get people
to talk, it could be a highly entertaining show. But
it also could be and this is where my mind
always goes, it could also teach us sort of what
can happen, I guess when policing goes wrong, you know.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
The ultimate power interruption?
Speaker 4 (31:11):
Yeah, what can happen when a police department does not
police itself? And so I thought that that question is
one worthy of diving into and one that should never
go away, right because what happened with the Dirty thirty
in New York City and the crack era is exactly
(31:32):
what happens when the police department fails to police itself,
And so I began doing my research, and I connected
with the attorney of who I thought could be the
main character or sort of the person through whose eyes
a lot of this would would be seen, and who
was taken for an insane ride himself at Barry Brown.
(31:55):
And I connected with Barry Brown. And Barry Brown was
a fan of the basketball documentaries that I had done,
so he knew who I was, and we hit it off,
and he had never really told his story, and he
was willing to tell it, and so we developed a
relationship in much the same way that the two of
you and I developed our relationship, and he trusted me
(32:19):
with it. And in addition to Barry, I ended up
connecting with most of the surviving members of the Malan Commission,
who was impaneled to investigate police corruption at the time
and happened upon this precinct that was filled with corruption
and opened it up for the world to see. So
(32:41):
I connected with all of them, including the investigators, and
then I connected with federal and state prosecutors, and the
state prosecutors were working for Robert Morgenthaugh at the time,
who was the most powerful DA in the country known
as the Boss, with this incredible reputation, and Mary Joe
White was the US Attorney and there became this enormous
(33:03):
turf war that happened behind the scenes. I ended up
getting some of the cops who were convicted of corruption.
So it's a really round story. And for the first time,
I think it's I don't think it's a stretch. It's
not a stretch. It's the truth to say that this
is the first time that this story is being told
(33:24):
by the people who lived it. And it is cops
dealing drugs, it's cops perjuring themselves. It is the police
department reacting to it and cleaning things up. It is
the turf war that went on behind the scenes between
Robert Morgenthal, the Boss, the DA and the Molon Commission
(33:45):
and the Southern District of New York. And that story
has never been told. And the pawn who is in
the middle of all of it, who gets fucked over.
And it is all told in this landscape of the
crack epidemic and what West Harlem and other communities were
put through because these police were not out policing, they
(34:07):
were in it for themselves. There are all these crazy moments. Yeah,
but at the end of the day, it's a story
that I think could happen in any city when the
police department does not police itself. Yet this is a
uniquely New York story as well, and so I hope
that it will really resonate with the audience. I think
(34:29):
it will.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
It will.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Can you tell our listeners exactly when it's going to launch?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yeah, So the first three episodes are coming out on
June fourteenth. Again, it's called the Set Set and you'll
find out what that means as you listen, and it
will be ten episodes released weekly. You can also binge
it on the Odyssey app.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Well, we are so excited and honored to listen to it,
to promote it, to do all the things.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
All the things, Yes, Zach, from the bottom of our hearts,
you know you. You will forever be our brother from
another mother. We love you. You are our family, You
are o'hanna, and we are forever grateful for you and
to you. So thank you so much again for being
(35:21):
with us today. It was it was the reunion of
a lifetime.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Thank you, and and right back at you, Vet. I mean,
I feel the same way about the both of you.
I'm so happy to see you doing what you love
to do. And thank you for having me on. Thank
you for you know, for having this for them to
talk about all these things, about this moment in our
lives where we came together and and uh and and
(35:48):
and did this thing and and uh and of course
thank you for allowing me to talk about the set.
I will be a fan of both of you forever.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to our mama,
Fauna Fanna Hodel. Her life's mission has become our mission
to share stories of how we can all overcome and
be the light.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Our emua also goes out to our guests today, mister
Zach Lovett, who our mother would have loved with every
ounce of her heart and soul just like we do,
because he took her life's work and he turned it
into a true masterpiece of storytelling. We are forever grateful
(36:38):
for the gift that Zach and our mom have given us.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
It is all about the storytelling, and one thing that
we know for sure is we can all learn from
one another and move onward and upward. Emua, emua, emua.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Find us on social media or email us at facingebl
pod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And one small request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
a good review. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Pacuerero in a Vetchintile,
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of iHeart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk,
Donald Albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf
(38:07):
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is
Carolyn Talmage. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find
us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod at
Tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(38:31):
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