July 14, 2022 • 35 mins
On their first episode, Rasha and Yvette take us to their hometown of Honolulu, Hawaii, where they discuss the mysterious 1982 murder of Lisa Au.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello everyone, Welcome or ekomo Mai, which means welcome in
Hawaiian to the very first episode of our new podcast,
Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts.
I'm Roscha Peccuerero and I'm a Vegenteelay and some of
you may already be familiar with our voices from our
(00:49):
hit podcast Root of Evil, the True story of the
Hodell Family and the Black Dahlia. Root of Evil is
where we talked about our family's history and connection to
George Hodell, who happened to be the prime suspect in
the Black Dahlia murder case, which is also known as
the Elizabeth Short murder case. We've known about our crazy,
dark family history our entire lives, but Yvette and I
(01:13):
are so thankful that we had our beautiful mother Fana Hodel,
a woman who rose above her difficult and crazy upbringing
and she always looked for the best in all of
the people around her, and we've always found the light
in the dark because of her. And that is what
we are going to do with this new podcast, right, Evett,
(01:36):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So each week we're going to be joined by our
amazing producer, mister Trevor Young, and we're going to discuss
true crime stories that we think that need to be
brought into the light, and we're going to share our
own unique perspective on the cases and people involved. And
throughout the season, we're also going to be joined by
(01:59):
some very special guests that are sharing their stories and
we'll hear from others that can shed light on particular cases.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, since we are sisters, contrary to popular belief, we
do not have the same opinion a lot of the time,
but we have beautiful conversations, We tease each other, and
you know, we just want you all to come along
on this journey with us.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, we do. So with that being said, let's get
to our first case, the case of Lisa Ao, a
nineteen year old woman who went missing in Hawaii in
nineteen eighty two. Since this is our first episode, we
wanted to share a story from a place that is
very personal to us. This is home, this is Hawaii, and.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Most people think of our beautiful hometown in Honolulu, Hawaii
as a paradise, which it absolutely is. But it's really
a place just like any other and it's not free
from crime or other horrible tragedies.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right, So this is sort of a double edged sort
of an episode. While we're so happy to be talking
about our home, we're also turning over a few stones
and looking at the darker side of what is usually
a very sunny place. Each week, our producer Trevor is
going to come in and give us a rundown on
(03:23):
a case. So now let's hear about Lisa Ao.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Well, it's one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in Hawaii.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Who killed Lisa Ao.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
She was on her way home when she was stopped
and abducted from that Kailua location.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
If you're old enough, you remember the fear that spread
through the community when a policeman was suspected. Law enforcement
pursued that theory for years, overlooking other evidence.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Lisa Ao was born on July twenty fifth, nineteen sixty
two to Chester Dennis aw and put Teres mahia I
kilani A keima Ao Kauamano. Lisa was of Chinese, Hawaiian
and European descent. She was raised on the island of Oahu,
and after high school, she pursued a career as a hairstylist.
(04:15):
After attending a training program at Trendsetter's Beauty College, Lisa
started working as a hairdresser at the Susan Beer Salon
in Kailua in Honolulu County. She was there for about
five weeks before she went missing. Around this time, she
was dating a University of Hawaii student named Doug Holmes,
(04:35):
and on the evening of July twenty first, nineteen eighty two,
Lisa went to see her boyfriend Doug at his sister's apartment.
At twelve twenty a m. Lisa called her roommate to
say she'd be coming home soon, but Lisa never came
home that night. The next morning, they found Lisa's car
parked on the side of a road, but Lisa was
(04:58):
nowhere to be found. It would be another ten days
before a jogger would come across Lisa's decomposed remains. On
the other side of the island. So what happened to Lisa?
And how could something so gruesome happen in a beautiful
place like Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It's heartbreaking to me that anything like this happened, you know,
and I think, you know, our mom sheltered us so
much that we didn't see a whole lot of crime.
I mean, you know, I mean I had to like
ask one of my dear friends, like who is also Hawaiian.
I'm like, do you know of any murders or anything?
And she told me about Lisa. And when I looked
(05:41):
it up, I mean, I was too little, but Yvette,
you were like fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I was. I was fifteen, and I remember a
little bit. I mean, you know, all of us living
through a pandemic. It's like trying to go back in
my brain and remember things is a whole nother story.
But I do remember. You know, Mom was driving into town,
so from where we lived, Pearl City, right driving all
the way into town, and there was this this thing
(06:08):
going on about you know, being afraid women being afraid
to be pulled over by police. So I do remember
some of that. Connecting the dots, yeah, connecting the dots
right to this particular case.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But growing up there, y'all didn't really kind of have
the feeling that it was unsafe to be in Hawaii
or the crime or murder with things that really happened.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Not at all, not ever.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Never, I'd never heard ever murder Like That's why I
had to like ask around.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we and we left our doors
unlocked all the time, and you know, left our screen
doors open. So no, not at all. And that's why
this case really hits home for us because it centers
around Kailua in Hawaii, not far from where we grew up,
you know, and we actually lived in Kailua and.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
One of the many cases we lived with mom. Yeah,
I lived all over the island, yes, yes, And you know,
Hawaii like Trevor's you said, like, it is really one
of the safest places in the United States, and it's seen,
you know, a decline in violent crime over you know,
the last few years. It's currently placed forty fourth out
(07:21):
of the fifty states in the list of violent crimes
per capita. But that was not always the case, especially
in the seventies and eighties, and many people may not
know that violent crimes in Hawaii increased sharply in the
nineteen seventies and actually peaked in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right, And even though we were growing up in Hawaii,
Mom sheltered us from all of that. I mean she
kept us busy twenty four to seven, overprotected, overprotective in
all type of activities, so we weren't sitting at home,
you know, watching TV twenty four to seven. But there
was a huge influx of new people moving to the islands,
and of course with that there's more crime.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean the uptick and crime in the seventies
and eighties. I mean that was happening across the country
at the time. The seventies and eighties were just particularly dangerous.
There was just a huge uptickn crime, murder, robbery all
throughout that period, drugs, and so yeah, I think you're ready.
It just kind of came to Hawaii along with people
moving there, you know, throughout that decade. And sadly, this
(08:21):
is really the same time period that you know, Lisa
aug is missing and everything happens to her. So yeah,
I guess even though it is a safe place, unfortunately
for Lisa, you know, she happened to be a young
woman at a time when there was as you're describing,
you know, all these new people and all this new
crime coming to the island exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So let's look closer at the night that Lisa Ao
actually went missing, which was January twentieth. So Lisa had
worked a shift at the hair salon and by the
time her shift was over, or we would say, pow hanna,
which means you're done with work. So when she was
pow hanna, it was pouring rain outside. This is something
(09:00):
that's normal on the Kailoa side, the windward side of
the island, it always rains. So she just gott in
her temporary driver's license, so maybe she wasn't the most
experienced driver. Regardless, she decided to brave the rain and
go see her boyfriend, Doug, and Doug was having dinner
at his sister's apartment in Makiki on the other side
(09:21):
of town. So Makiki's right next to Waikiki. It's probably
a good thirty five minute drive from the salon where
Lisa was working, so it's kind of a trek in
the rain. Her co workers said later that there was
nothing different about Lisa that night. She was her friendly,
bubbly kind self, and Lisa ended up leaving work at
(09:44):
nine o'clock, and, like so many of us in Hawaii,
since she was going to dinner and going somewhere, she
can't go empty handed, so she stopped at the grocery
store to get poke. And if you don't know what
poke is, you're living under our rock, because it is crack.
I mean, I think it's made its way onto the mainland.
(10:05):
Now there's poke bowls, but back then you could just
go and you'd get it from the deli and it's
the most delicious raw fish soaked in shoyu or soy
sauce and onions and it's just amazing. But I'm sorry, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, you're making my mouthwater.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I know, I'm going on a poque tangent. But anyway,
so Lisa and her poke arrived at her boyfriend's sister's
house and her name was Kristin, and she arrived for
a late dinner and she ended up leaving that night
about twelve twenty, So this is now turning into Thursday,
(10:39):
January twenty first. So Kristin actually offered to let Lisa
stay with her for the night so she didn't have
to drive back in the rain, but Lisa declined, but
she did call her roommate to let her know that
she was on her way home right.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And so Doug would. He would later testify that he
and Lisa left his sister's apartment at the same time,
but they left in different cars, so they both went
in their own cars. Doug went back to the University
of Hawaii dorm, and he thought it was just a
normal night until the very next morning when he got
(11:15):
a call from Lisa's parents asking where was Lisa.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, I guess nobody really knew by this point. You know,
it's now the morning of January twenty first, Lisa's still
not back. So finally it's her roommates who are super concerned,
you know, early morning by this point, and they are
the ones who contact the police they report are missing.
And the rest of this information comes from Hawaii News Now,
who did a lot of really good reporting at the time.
(11:42):
But according to them, Doug went out to look for Lisa,
and he's the one that reported to police that he
found her car. And her car was a nineteen seventy
six Toyota. It was parked on the shoulder of the
highway in Mana wheeley, Am I getting that right?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Run very close?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Okay, sorry working on my Hawaiian but I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Are doing good, Texan, I'm telling you very good? Right.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So anyways, the car was parked on the shoulder of
the highway in Manawheeli near the old Kailua drive in,
which sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
This was when it was open.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It was spooky, very spooky.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah. The drive in was only about two miles from
her apartment though, and just about one hundred yards from
a public telephone. So when they found her car, the
car battery had actually died, but they were able to
determine that the windshield wipers and the parking lights had
been left on by Lisa or whoever. Also, the driver's
side window was about halfway down, and the responding officer
(12:40):
also reported that there was about two to three inches
of water on the floor of the car, and so
the seat and the rest of the car was just
completely soaked, drenched, covered in water.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And the crazy thing about that, Trevor, is that our
purse was still on the seat and it was completely dry.
And I know for me and I'm sure for you
Rashat like we would never leave our purse, never if
we were stranded somewhere or something happened, that would be
the first thing that we would grab.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Right absolutely, And I'm just gonna say, my conspiracy mind,
that should not have been a dry purse, you know,
like say she was abducted and grabbed like I'm sorry,
the purse is going to be drenched to of.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Course, it's pouring rain. It's pouring rain, and they're you know.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
There's fishy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It's very fishy. And as we know, there are no
signs of Lisa or what happened to her.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
All right, well we need to take a quick break,
So after a couple very fun ads, we'll come back
and talk about what the police found and some of
the people they interviewed.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So coming back to this case, the search for Lisa
began almost immediately after her car was found. And that's
something you have to know about the people of Hawaii.
They come together. They distributed thousands of flyers, officials and
volunteers scoured all of the surrounding areas, including the nearby
(14:08):
Kawai Nui Marsh, throughout Kailua and Kannieohe and Wuaimanalo. So
just to give you some perspective on this, this is
on the windward side of the island. This is where
Lisa worked, where she lived, is where her car was found,
so they were only focusing on that side of the island,
even though she had been on the town side of
(14:30):
the island, the Makai side in Makiki the night before
she ended up going missing. So that's a big piece
to that puzzle here, right. Sadly, though, there were multiple
days that passed without any ransom calls, any letters coming in,
no one saw anything any clues about Lisa, and that
(14:51):
had police officers and the people of Hawaii fearing the worst.
So on January thirty first, a man was jogging with
his dog on Tantalus Drive. And Tantalus is not too
far from Waikiki and it's a place that only locals go.
It's beautiful, you can see all of Waikiki and all
(15:11):
of you know, the Makay side of the island. But
it's a local spot. Tourists don't go there.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, they do not. They wouldn't know how to get there, no,
unless they were with a local exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So this jogger was up on Tantalis Drive and he
actually stumbled across human remains. The body was found in
some brush down a deep ravine on the side of
the road. She was nude and the remains were severely decomposed.
And remember this was January thirty first, and she only
(15:43):
went missing on January twenty first, so it was officially
later confirmed to be Lisa'ao, but the state of decomposition
was so advanced that the corner was not able to
determine a cause of death. And still, like, I don't understand,
like to this day, forty years later, like they still
(16:05):
don't know what happened. It just it makes me so
sad Trevor didn't. The homicide detectives also have issues with
how the coroner even handled the autopsy to begin with.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, it turns out the body was actually looked at
a number of times as a result of kind of
poor autopsy job the first time. But anyways, Hawaiian News
Now has a really great article on this, and they
talk about how Detective Burt Corneil, who was largely in
charge of this case, really didn't think that the coroner
did a thorough job on that first autopsy, so they
(16:38):
ended up exhuoming Lisa's body in nineteen eighty three for
a second autopsy. And they wanted to see if they
could try and determine a cause of death the second time,
because they didn't get it the first time. What they
did end up finding was not great, pretty troubling. In fact,
they found that Lisa's body was still inside the police
body bag that they put it in. Wow, and the
release and dirt and trash like in the bag and
(17:01):
in her hair. It was just like a mess. The
detective also reported that her body had never even been washed,
which is wild.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
How does that even happen?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Just in competence? Yeah, I don't know so. Anyways, even
after this autopsy though, the investigators couldn't identify a cause
of death.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Sadly, that's just crazy, right, Like is it incompetence or
was it planned that way?
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Mm?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's possible. I mean, I think a big part of
it too, is any time a body has been out
for days and days at a time, like your, chances
of being able to determine how they died is infinitely
less each passing day, especially if it's outside and it's
you know, surrounded by brush and nature. It's it's going
to decompose a lot faster. This is ten days, you know, right,
(17:49):
not to you know, excuse the way the body was
treated and kind of poorly examined. But I guess to me,
all I'm saying is I'm not surprised that they weren't
able to determine a cause of death, regardless of how
the body was stored.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And it's so heartbreaking to know that Lisa was treated
that way, because death, even though it's heartbreaking, it can
be sacred, right. But I'm sure that her family was,
you know, in the depths of their government. Their grief
exactly didn't open. Who knows. Maybe they told them to
have a closed casket funeral, who knows, But it's it
(18:24):
makes me very sad. I do know for a fact
that she is now buried at the Valley of the
Temples in on Conniehey side, and it's absolutely stunning. So
at least I know she has a beautiful final resting place.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, it's one of the most beautiful places actually on
the island. So she is on sacred grounds now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So there were actually some witnesses from that night. The
Honolulus Star bulletin actually reported that several police officers remembered
seeing Lisa's car on the side of the road and
they saw a man and a woman the side of
the car. A few different theories came out about what
happened to Lisa. One was that she was abducted on
(19:07):
her way home, potentially killed elsewhere, and that the car
was staged, which I think we all three can be
in agreement that that's probably what happened.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, that to me, that is obviously one hundred percent
what happened. I mean, the crime scene tech said that
Lisa's car had been wiped clean of any evidence, right,
and the officer thought that her purse being dry what right,
we all was questionable hello, and that had been put
there on the seat after the rain stopped that night.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, yep, yeah, no, one million percent.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah no. So additionally, there was another person who testified
and her name was Charlotte Kamaka, and she was a
newspaper delivery driver. She was on her route and she
said that she saw a man about two thirty in
the morning. He was in a Bloe lute car and
he had a female passenger who appeared to be asleep
(20:06):
or unconscious. She also said that the head was bobbing
back and forth, you know, and she was her route
was the Polly Highway, so that's a windy road, right
rush like right?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I remember, yeah, I remember watching don't I think they
talked about an aha about your news now and actually
another local podcast I was listening to that interviewed Charlotte
Kamaka before she passed, because she gave that interview with
the grand jury and she said that she saw the
head bobbing with the turns.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I would say more unconscious, not so much sleeping.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah. I mean, what does that tell you then if
there's kind of like a half conscious like head bobbing,
that this person is either like you know, drugs or
that are gay, they are dead, or like severely wounded
to the point where they're like you know, not really
able to keep their body up, you know, right, maybe
maybe she's been I've attacked at this point, but it's
still like hanging on oh.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Right, and she has no control over she has no
control of her body.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And sadly, that is about all the leads that the
investigators would get.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
They did, however, find some suspects, and we will talk
about this right after a quick ad break.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
All right, it's time to talk about the suspects. And
let me just first point out I always think it's
the boyfriend right away, and I know most people do.
But with the limited reporting in this there's not a
whole lot of evidence that points to Doug Holmes. And
he has since moved to Australia and has commented many
(21:46):
times and said that he hopes that the killer of
Lisa is found and I guess he has cooperated in
the past. However, he's still on the list. But the
big theory in this case, and it's been widely suggested
that Lisa was murdered by a police officer.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, this one's interesting to me, and I know we
all heard a VET allude to this earlier when she
was talking about remembering the case, and the main thing
she remembered was that, you know, there was kind of
some fear about being pulled over by police officers.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So that's where those comes from, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
And that is because the main suspect was actually a
veteran police officer, a guy named Thomas Byrne. So Burne
had been on the same highway as Lisa that night
and he reportedly pulled over a different woman for erratic driving.
A Kylui supermarket checkout woman identified Burne as the officer
who had pulled her over. That's how we know that,
(22:43):
right Byrne admitted that he was there, but denied stopping
Lisa or of course killing her. Of course, yeah, of.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Course he's gonna deny it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Still, though, the investigation focused largely on burn as you
were saying, right, and his car and house were searched thoroughly.
There were two police dogs who were trained to find
drugs and bombs that were used to see if they
could detect any of Lisa's sence on his car or
any of his belongings. The dogs did pick up something
from Burne's car, they had some kind of reaction, but
(23:19):
it was unclear what they were reacting to, and so
they couldn't really connect burn that way. And so for
all these reasons, Burne was never charged in the case.
So he's still considered a suspect largely, and there's been
a lot of debate about it over the years, but
you know, again, never charged, convicted, and so therefore we
don't know who killed Lisa.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, right, And it goes back and forth like was
it the boyfriend or was it a police officer.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Or someone intersonating a police office.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Or someone impersonating a police officer. But it's interesting because
I spoke to one of my friends who lives in Hawaii,
and she said she's about three years older than me,
so she would have been, you know, eighteen at the time.
And she said years later, in the salon where she worked,
she had one of the detectives from the Lisa Au
case in her chair and they started chatting, you know,
(24:10):
about the case, and she said that he felt that
the boyfriend absolutely did it. That was his opinion. Hmmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So but you said one thing that's interesting, You said,
impersonating a police officer. Where does that theory come from?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, that comes from in Hawaii at the time, there
were police officers could put the blue light on top
of their car, so it was like a grill that
was there and they could just PLoP the blue light
on there. So you know, everybody was thinking that it
was a police officer. Now all of a sudden, they're
thinking that there are copycats out there that are going
to start pulling over tourists or you know, luring women
(24:52):
to the side and you know, doing something terrible to this.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Is that why people think?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And the pers vehicles back then, they were using their
own cars.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So really anybody who, like, with their own car could
just go buy a blue light.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Ten So, actually, in nineteen eighty two, the Honolulu Police
Department actually banned officers from using the supplemental blue lights
as a reaction to Lisa's unsolved murder because I think
it created a lot of mass hysteria, especially in Honolulu.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, I created a frenzy, right, and we're afraid.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So afraid, like our mom. And so the other theory
that I think is absolutely crazy is that they were
trying to pin Lisa AU's murder on the Golden State killer,
who has now been identified as James DeAngelo, who is
a former police officer, or they actually thought that it
(25:48):
possibly like Lisa could have been the first murder in
the still unidentified serial killer known as the Honolulu Strangler.
And I honestly, like, i'd never heard about the Honolulu
Strangler until doing research for this actual case. Do you
know anything about it?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Evet no, And that's no, I did not. And I
asked my friend again the same question, and she remembers
that case those cases as well, and I said, well,
do you think you know one had to do with
the other, And she said she didn't feel that way
at all. You know. So were you familiar with these
at all?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Trevor our true crime expert.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm familiar with the Golden State
Killer and Joseph James d'angelou. That was a huge thing
back in I guess twenty eighteen or so when he
was found out right, And it's a pretty common thing
that anytime one of these serial killers from you know,
decades past is discovered, that people try and connect them
(26:50):
with all these other unsolved cases where they don't know
who the killer is. I remember people thought, like, you know,
he could have been also the Zodiac, or that the
Zodiac was the the unibomber. You know. So people are
always like making these crazy connections between these famous serial killers,
and I get it. I understand where the temptation comes from.
But I was less familiar with the Honolulu strangler. However,
(27:13):
I had heard about it in reference to some DNA
technology announcements that had come out recently. It was one
of those cases where they thought they could use new
DNA technology to help solve the case, which has been
a really big thing in recent years. So I had
kind of heard about it in passing, but happy to
talk about it a little bit more here, because it
is an interesting case, and that one, more so than
(27:36):
the Golden State Killer, I think could have some legs
as a theory. So anyways, I'll just tell you about
it and then we can think about it a little bit. Okay,
makes any sense if it's connected to Lisa. But basically,
from May nineteen eighty five to April of nineteen eighty six,
five women were murdered in a similar fashion to one another.
(27:58):
Their names were Vicky gay Perdi, Regina Sakamoto, Denise Hughes,
Luis Madieros, and Linda Peschi. Each woman was found nude
with her hands bound behind her back, and three of
them had been sexually assaulted or raped. So already the
m O kind of sounds different from.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Lisa, right right, right, So.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Because Lisa's cause of death, though has still not really
been determined, it's difficult to tell if she had been strangled,
if she had been bound, if she had been sexually assaulted,
and since she was not found under any of those conditions,
there's not really a lot of evidence to back up
the theory that she was connected to the Honolulu strangler. Still, though,
it's you know, possible. It's possible that Lisa, you know,
(28:44):
having happened many years earlier, was like maybe the first
victim of the Honolulu Strangler, that maybe she was like
a test.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
A test case, a test case for.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Him, or I assume him, you know, and then he
would go on to murder and kill five other women.
You know, we've heard of that happening. You know, the
Zodiac case, for example, there were a number of unconnected cases,
unconfirmed cases that happened years years before the official Zodiac
killings that looked really really similar. So a lot of
people kind of assume that those cases are connected, but
(29:14):
that they were as I was just mentioning, like kind
of test cases for the Zodiac. So it's not unheard of,
could be connected, but you know, at the end of
the day, we don't have any way to confirm that.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It's funny that you mentioned the Zodiac because our great
uncle Steve Hodell connected, you know, he believes that our
great grandfather George Hodell was also the Zodiac killer.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, it's like, what is that about that I didn't read.
They always try to put them all together.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I know I attributed to Aukham's razor, right, like the
simplest answer to any sort of complex issue is, you know,
the most easy one to digest, and therefore people attract
to them.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You always say these amazing nuggets, Trevor, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I wish I could just get in your brain sometimes, Trevor,
in your pocket, Oh my gosh. But what do you guys? Okay, so,
but what do you think about Doug? Do you guys
think that the boyfriend could have done it? I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I feel like Russia kind of said it already, you know.
I mean again, I know people are quick to, you know,
go for the partner as the person who likely did it,
and for good reason. I mean, that is very often
the case, right, I mean, I think the first people
you should look at are the people who know the victim, right,
people in close proximity, significant others, neighbors, et cetera, et cetera.
(30:39):
But in this case, it just feels unlikely. It feels
unlikely based off of his testimony. It feels unlikely based
on the fact that there's just nothing tying him to
the case. You know, I don't know if anybody else
had any thoughts, but.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, you know, I have to agree with you.
I think originally I thought, yeah, it was a boyfriend
because you know, again I go back to like, how
do you let your girlfriend, you know, drive the Polly
and it's pouring rain at night, and you know, I'm
and there's an argument, and I think, well, maybe something
happened and so he planned all this, you know, something
(31:13):
bad happened or accidentally possibly, I don't know. But the
more that I think about it, I don't think the
boyfriend was the one who did it. I think that
my gut is leaning more towards a police officer, no what,
yeah or something. I just I just, yeah, things, things
(31:36):
are just not adding up, especially when we go back
and we're talking about like her body right and how
the coroner's the way that it was not cleaned and
bagged and like that. That's a procedure that is supposed
to be done. So why wasn't that done?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Oh so there's a conspiracy theory work here.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So I'm just I'm just I mean, I don't know,
but that's just my two cents.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah see, and I always lean towards the boyfriend. But
because I don't want to hurt anyone, you know, Doug
has come out in you know, last few years especially,
you know, I think he was interviewed for what you
News now and he said, you know, because he's moved
on to Australia, has a family, has moved on in
his life. But he definitely, you know, has said that
(32:28):
he wants to find Lisa's killer and help in any
way that he can. But I still can't get it
out of my mind that he was the last person
to be with her. So I don't know, I just
valid point though, Yvet and Trevor. I just I want
Lisa to find justice.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Right, We just we just hope that the truth one
day comes out what really happened to her. Right, That's
the most important thing here exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
So now it's time for our last segment of the show,
Our Emua.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
This will be the.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Final part of every single episode of Facing Evil and
im in Hawaiian means to move onward and upward, and
most importantly, to move forward. It's our final message of
hope and healing that we want to give to each
of you. Today. We dedicate our Emua to Lisa Ao
and all the other people in Hawaii who never had
(33:28):
their cases resolved.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It's so important to us today to spread this message
of hope that we will find the truth about Lisa
and that the land, the Aina of Hawaii will provide
that truth absolutely and hopefully this will bring some peace
(33:51):
to Lisa's Ohanna.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Onward and upward.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Emua emua.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well, that's our show for today, our very first one.
Mahala nui la. Thank you so much for joining us.
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case that you'd like us to cover,
you can always find us on social media or email
us at Facing Evil pod at tenderfoot dot tv until
(34:22):
next time.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Aloha.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia pacquerero In, Avet Schintile,
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. Our executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, with users Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald
Albright In Payne Lindsay, our executive producers on behalf of
(35:06):
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
social media or email us at facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(35:30):
favorite shows,
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hello everyone, Welcome or ekomo Mai, which means welcome in
Hawaiian to the very first episode of our new podcast,
Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts.
I'm Roscha Peccuerero and I'm a Vegenteelay and some of
you may already be familiar with our voices from our
(00:49):
hit podcast Root of Evil, the True story of the
Hodell Family and the Black Dahlia. Root of Evil is
where we talked about our family's history and connection to
George Hodell, who happened to be the prime suspect in
the Black Dahlia murder case, which is also known as
the Elizabeth Short murder case. We've known about our crazy,
dark family history our entire lives, but Yvette and I
(01:13):
are so thankful that we had our beautiful mother Fana Hodel,
a woman who rose above her difficult and crazy upbringing
and she always looked for the best in all of
the people around her, and we've always found the light
in the dark because of her. And that is what
we are going to do with this new podcast, right, Evett,
(01:36):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So each week we're going to be joined by our
amazing producer, mister Trevor Young, and we're going to discuss
true crime stories that we think that need to be
brought into the light, and we're going to share our
own unique perspective on the cases and people involved. And
throughout the season, we're also going to be joined by
(01:59):
some very special guests that are sharing their stories and
we'll hear from others that can shed light on particular cases.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
So, since we are sisters, contrary to popular belief, we
do not have the same opinion a lot of the time,
but we have beautiful conversations, We tease each other, and
you know, we just want you all to come along
on this journey with us.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, we do. So with that being said, let's get
to our first case, the case of Lisa Ao, a
nineteen year old woman who went missing in Hawaii in
nineteen eighty two. Since this is our first episode, we
wanted to share a story from a place that is
very personal to us. This is home, this is Hawaii, and.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Most people think of our beautiful hometown in Honolulu, Hawaii
as a paradise, which it absolutely is. But it's really
a place just like any other and it's not free
from crime or other horrible tragedies.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Right, So this is sort of a double edged sort
of an episode. While we're so happy to be talking
about our home, we're also turning over a few stones
and looking at the darker side of what is usually
a very sunny place. Each week, our producer Trevor is
going to come in and give us a rundown on
(03:23):
a case. So now let's hear about Lisa Ao.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Well, it's one of the biggest unsolved mysteries in Hawaii.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Who killed Lisa Ao.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
She was on her way home when she was stopped
and abducted from that Kailua location.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
If you're old enough, you remember the fear that spread
through the community when a policeman was suspected. Law enforcement
pursued that theory for years, overlooking other evidence.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Lisa Ao was born on July twenty fifth, nineteen sixty
two to Chester Dennis aw and put Teres mahia I
kilani A keima Ao Kauamano. Lisa was of Chinese, Hawaiian
and European descent. She was raised on the island of Oahu,
and after high school, she pursued a career as a hairstylist.
(04:15):
After attending a training program at Trendsetter's Beauty College, Lisa
started working as a hairdresser at the Susan Beer Salon
in Kailua in Honolulu County. She was there for about
five weeks before she went missing. Around this time, she
was dating a University of Hawaii student named Doug Holmes,
(04:35):
and on the evening of July twenty first, nineteen eighty two,
Lisa went to see her boyfriend Doug at his sister's apartment.
At twelve twenty a m. Lisa called her roommate to
say she'd be coming home soon, but Lisa never came
home that night. The next morning, they found Lisa's car
parked on the side of a road, but Lisa was
(04:58):
nowhere to be found. It would be another ten days
before a jogger would come across Lisa's decomposed remains. On
the other side of the island. So what happened to Lisa?
And how could something so gruesome happen in a beautiful
place like Hawaii.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
It's heartbreaking to me that anything like this happened, you know,
and I think, you know, our mom sheltered us so
much that we didn't see a whole lot of crime.
I mean, you know, I mean I had to like
ask one of my dear friends, like who is also Hawaiian.
I'm like, do you know of any murders or anything?
And she told me about Lisa. And when I looked
(05:41):
it up, I mean, I was too little, but Yvette,
you were like fourteen fifteen.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I was. I was fifteen, and I remember a
little bit. I mean, you know, all of us living
through a pandemic. It's like trying to go back in
my brain and remember things is a whole nother story.
But I do remember. You know, Mom was driving into town,
so from where we lived, Pearl City, right driving all
the way into town, and there was this this thing
(06:08):
going on about you know, being afraid women being afraid
to be pulled over by police. So I do remember
some of that. Connecting the dots, yeah, connecting the dots
right to this particular case.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
But growing up there, y'all didn't really kind of have
the feeling that it was unsafe to be in Hawaii
or the crime or murder with things that really happened.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Not at all, not ever.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Never, I'd never heard ever murder Like That's why I
had to like ask around.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we and we left our doors
unlocked all the time, and you know, left our screen
doors open. So no, not at all. And that's why
this case really hits home for us because it centers
around Kailua in Hawaii, not far from where we grew up,
you know, and we actually lived in Kailua and.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
One of the many cases we lived with mom. Yeah,
I lived all over the island, yes, yes, And you know,
Hawaii like Trevor's you said, like, it is really one
of the safest places in the United States, and it's seen,
you know, a decline in violent crime over you know,
the last few years. It's currently placed forty fourth out
(07:21):
of the fifty states in the list of violent crimes
per capita. But that was not always the case, especially
in the seventies and eighties, and many people may not
know that violent crimes in Hawaii increased sharply in the
nineteen seventies and actually peaked in the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Right, And even though we were growing up in Hawaii,
Mom sheltered us from all of that. I mean she
kept us busy twenty four to seven, overprotected, overprotective in
all type of activities, so we weren't sitting at home,
you know, watching TV twenty four to seven. But there
was a huge influx of new people moving to the islands,
and of course with that there's more crime.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yeah, I mean the uptick and crime in the seventies
and eighties. I mean that was happening across the country
at the time. The seventies and eighties were just particularly dangerous.
There was just a huge uptickn crime, murder, robbery all
throughout that period, drugs, and so yeah, I think you're ready.
It just kind of came to Hawaii along with people
moving there, you know, throughout that decade. And sadly, this
(08:21):
is really the same time period that you know, Lisa
aug is missing and everything happens to her. So yeah,
I guess even though it is a safe place, unfortunately
for Lisa, you know, she happened to be a young
woman at a time when there was as you're describing,
you know, all these new people and all this new
crime coming to the island exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So let's look closer at the night that Lisa Ao
actually went missing, which was January twentieth. So Lisa had
worked a shift at the hair salon and by the
time her shift was over, or we would say, pow hanna,
which means you're done with work. So when she was
pow hanna, it was pouring rain outside. This is something
(09:00):
that's normal on the Kailoa side, the windward side of
the island, it always rains. So she just gott in
her temporary driver's license, so maybe she wasn't the most
experienced driver. Regardless, she decided to brave the rain and
go see her boyfriend, Doug, and Doug was having dinner
at his sister's apartment in Makiki on the other side
(09:21):
of town. So Makiki's right next to Waikiki. It's probably
a good thirty five minute drive from the salon where
Lisa was working, so it's kind of a trek in
the rain. Her co workers said later that there was
nothing different about Lisa that night. She was her friendly,
bubbly kind self, and Lisa ended up leaving work at
(09:44):
nine o'clock, and, like so many of us in Hawaii,
since she was going to dinner and going somewhere, she
can't go empty handed, so she stopped at the grocery
store to get poke. And if you don't know what
poke is, you're living under our rock, because it is crack.
I mean, I think it's made its way onto the mainland.
(10:05):
Now there's poke bowls, but back then you could just
go and you'd get it from the deli and it's
the most delicious raw fish soaked in shoyu or soy
sauce and onions and it's just amazing. But I'm sorry, I'm.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, yeah, you're making my mouthwater.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I know, I'm going on a poque tangent. But anyway,
so Lisa and her poke arrived at her boyfriend's sister's
house and her name was Kristin, and she arrived for
a late dinner and she ended up leaving that night
about twelve twenty, So this is now turning into Thursday,
(10:39):
January twenty first. So Kristin actually offered to let Lisa
stay with her for the night so she didn't have
to drive back in the rain, but Lisa declined, but
she did call her roommate to let her know that
she was on her way home right.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
And so Doug would. He would later testify that he
and Lisa left his sister's apartment at the same time,
but they left in different cars, so they both went
in their own cars. Doug went back to the University
of Hawaii dorm, and he thought it was just a
normal night until the very next morning when he got
(11:15):
a call from Lisa's parents asking where was Lisa.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, I guess nobody really knew by this point. You know,
it's now the morning of January twenty first, Lisa's still
not back. So finally it's her roommates who are super concerned,
you know, early morning by this point, and they are
the ones who contact the police they report are missing.
And the rest of this information comes from Hawaii News Now,
who did a lot of really good reporting at the time.
(11:42):
But according to them, Doug went out to look for Lisa,
and he's the one that reported to police that he
found her car. And her car was a nineteen seventy
six Toyota. It was parked on the shoulder of the
highway in Mana wheeley, Am I getting that right?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Run very close?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Okay, sorry working on my Hawaiian but I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Are doing good, Texan, I'm telling you very good? Right.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
So anyways, the car was parked on the shoulder of
the highway in Manawheeli near the old Kailua drive in,
which sounds fun.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
This was when it was open.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
It was spooky, very spooky.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah. The drive in was only about two miles from
her apartment though, and just about one hundred yards from
a public telephone. So when they found her car, the
car battery had actually died, but they were able to
determine that the windshield wipers and the parking lights had
been left on by Lisa or whoever. Also, the driver's
side window was about halfway down, and the responding officer
(12:40):
also reported that there was about two to three inches
of water on the floor of the car, and so
the seat and the rest of the car was just
completely soaked, drenched, covered in water.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And the crazy thing about that, Trevor, is that our
purse was still on the seat and it was completely dry.
And I know for me and I'm sure for you
Rashat like we would never leave our purse, never if
we were stranded somewhere or something happened, that would be
the first thing that we would grab.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Right absolutely, And I'm just gonna say, my conspiracy mind,
that should not have been a dry purse, you know,
like say she was abducted and grabbed like I'm sorry,
the purse is going to be drenched to of.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Course, it's pouring rain. It's pouring rain, and they're you know.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
There's fishy.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It's very fishy. And as we know, there are no
signs of Lisa or what happened to her.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
All right, well we need to take a quick break,
So after a couple very fun ads, we'll come back
and talk about what the police found and some of
the people they interviewed.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
So coming back to this case, the search for Lisa
began almost immediately after her car was found. And that's
something you have to know about the people of Hawaii.
They come together. They distributed thousands of flyers, officials and
volunteers scoured all of the surrounding areas, including the nearby
(14:08):
Kawai Nui Marsh, throughout Kailua and Kannieohe and Wuaimanalo. So
just to give you some perspective on this, this is
on the windward side of the island. This is where
Lisa worked, where she lived, is where her car was found,
so they were only focusing on that side of the island,
even though she had been on the town side of
(14:30):
the island, the Makai side in Makiki the night before
she ended up going missing. So that's a big piece
to that puzzle here, right. Sadly, though, there were multiple
days that passed without any ransom calls, any letters coming in,
no one saw anything any clues about Lisa, and that
(14:51):
had police officers and the people of Hawaii fearing the worst.
So on January thirty first, a man was jogging with
his dog on Tantalus Drive. And Tantalus is not too
far from Waikiki and it's a place that only locals go.
It's beautiful, you can see all of Waikiki and all
(15:11):
of you know, the Makay side of the island. But
it's a local spot. Tourists don't go there.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Yeah, they do not. They wouldn't know how to get there, no,
unless they were with a local exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So this jogger was up on Tantalis Drive and he
actually stumbled across human remains. The body was found in
some brush down a deep ravine on the side of
the road. She was nude and the remains were severely decomposed.
And remember this was January thirty first, and she only
(15:43):
went missing on January twenty first, so it was officially
later confirmed to be Lisa'ao, but the state of decomposition
was so advanced that the corner was not able to
determine a cause of death. And still, like, I don't understand,
like to this day, forty years later, like they still
(16:05):
don't know what happened. It just it makes me so
sad Trevor didn't. The homicide detectives also have issues with
how the coroner even handled the autopsy to begin with.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, it turns out the body was actually looked at
a number of times as a result of kind of
poor autopsy job the first time. But anyways, Hawaiian News
Now has a really great article on this, and they
talk about how Detective Burt Corneil, who was largely in
charge of this case, really didn't think that the coroner
did a thorough job on that first autopsy, so they
(16:38):
ended up exhuoming Lisa's body in nineteen eighty three for
a second autopsy. And they wanted to see if they
could try and determine a cause of death the second time,
because they didn't get it the first time. What they
did end up finding was not great, pretty troubling. In fact,
they found that Lisa's body was still inside the police
body bag that they put it in. Wow, and the
release and dirt and trash like in the bag and
(17:01):
in her hair. It was just like a mess. The
detective also reported that her body had never even been washed,
which is wild.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
How does that even happen?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Just in competence? Yeah, I don't know so. Anyways, even
after this autopsy though, the investigators couldn't identify a cause
of death.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Sadly, that's just crazy, right, Like is it incompetence or
was it planned that way?
Speaker 5 (17:27):
Mm?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
It's possible. I mean, I think a big part of
it too, is any time a body has been out
for days and days at a time, like your, chances
of being able to determine how they died is infinitely
less each passing day, especially if it's outside and it's
you know, surrounded by brush and nature. It's it's going
to decompose a lot faster. This is ten days, you know, right,
(17:49):
not to you know, excuse the way the body was
treated and kind of poorly examined. But I guess to me,
all I'm saying is I'm not surprised that they weren't
able to determine a cause of death, regardless of how
the body was stored.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And it's so heartbreaking to know that Lisa was treated
that way, because death, even though it's heartbreaking, it can
be sacred, right. But I'm sure that her family was,
you know, in the depths of their government. Their grief
exactly didn't open. Who knows. Maybe they told them to
have a closed casket funeral, who knows, But it's it
(18:24):
makes me very sad. I do know for a fact
that she is now buried at the Valley of the
Temples in on Conniehey side, and it's absolutely stunning. So
at least I know she has a beautiful final resting place.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, it's one of the most beautiful places actually on
the island. So she is on sacred grounds now. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
So there were actually some witnesses from that night. The
Honolulus Star bulletin actually reported that several police officers remembered
seeing Lisa's car on the side of the road and
they saw a man and a woman the side of
the car. A few different theories came out about what
happened to Lisa. One was that she was abducted on
(19:07):
her way home, potentially killed elsewhere, and that the car
was staged, which I think we all three can be
in agreement that that's probably what happened.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
Yeah, that to me, that is obviously one hundred percent
what happened. I mean, the crime scene tech said that
Lisa's car had been wiped clean of any evidence, right,
and the officer thought that her purse being dry what right,
we all was questionable hello, and that had been put
there on the seat after the rain stopped that night.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, yep, yeah, no, one million percent.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah no. So additionally, there was another person who testified
and her name was Charlotte Kamaka, and she was a
newspaper delivery driver. She was on her route and she
said that she saw a man about two thirty in
the morning. He was in a Bloe lute car and
he had a female passenger who appeared to be asleep
(20:06):
or unconscious. She also said that the head was bobbing
back and forth, you know, and she was her route
was the Polly Highway, so that's a windy road, right
rush like right?
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I remember, yeah, I remember watching don't I think they
talked about an aha about your news now and actually
another local podcast I was listening to that interviewed Charlotte
Kamaka before she passed, because she gave that interview with
the grand jury and she said that she saw the
head bobbing with the turns.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, I would say more unconscious, not so much sleeping.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah. I mean, what does that tell you then if
there's kind of like a half conscious like head bobbing,
that this person is either like you know, drugs or
that are gay, they are dead, or like severely wounded
to the point where they're like you know, not really
able to keep their body up, you know, right, maybe
maybe she's been I've attacked at this point, but it's
still like hanging on oh.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Right, and she has no control over she has no
control of her body.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And sadly, that is about all the leads that the
investigators would get.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
They did, however, find some suspects, and we will talk
about this right after a quick ad break.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
All right, it's time to talk about the suspects. And
let me just first point out I always think it's
the boyfriend right away, and I know most people do.
But with the limited reporting in this there's not a
whole lot of evidence that points to Doug Holmes. And
he has since moved to Australia and has commented many
(21:46):
times and said that he hopes that the killer of
Lisa is found and I guess he has cooperated in
the past. However, he's still on the list. But the
big theory in this case, and it's been widely suggested
that Lisa was murdered by a police officer.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, this one's interesting to me, and I know we
all heard a VET allude to this earlier when she
was talking about remembering the case, and the main thing
she remembered was that, you know, there was kind of
some fear about being pulled over by police officers.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
So that's where those comes from, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
And that is because the main suspect was actually a
veteran police officer, a guy named Thomas Byrne. So Burne
had been on the same highway as Lisa that night
and he reportedly pulled over a different woman for erratic driving.
A Kylui supermarket checkout woman identified Burne as the officer
who had pulled her over. That's how we know that,
(22:43):
right Byrne admitted that he was there, but denied stopping
Lisa or of course killing her. Of course, yeah, of.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Course he's gonna deny it.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Still, though, the investigation focused largely on burn as you
were saying, right, and his car and house were searched thoroughly.
There were two police dogs who were trained to find
drugs and bombs that were used to see if they
could detect any of Lisa's sence on his car or
any of his belongings. The dogs did pick up something
from Burne's car, they had some kind of reaction, but
(23:19):
it was unclear what they were reacting to, and so
they couldn't really connect burn that way. And so for
all these reasons, Burne was never charged in the case.
So he's still considered a suspect largely, and there's been
a lot of debate about it over the years, but
you know, again, never charged, convicted, and so therefore we
don't know who killed Lisa.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, right, And it goes back and forth like was
it the boyfriend or was it a police officer.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Or someone intersonating a police office.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Or someone impersonating a police officer. But it's interesting because
I spoke to one of my friends who lives in Hawaii,
and she said she's about three years older than me,
so she would have been, you know, eighteen at the time.
And she said years later, in the salon where she worked,
she had one of the detectives from the Lisa Au
case in her chair and they started chatting, you know,
(24:10):
about the case, and she said that he felt that
the boyfriend absolutely did it. That was his opinion. Hmmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So but you said one thing that's interesting, You said,
impersonating a police officer. Where does that theory come from?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, that comes from in Hawaii at the time, there
were police officers could put the blue light on top
of their car, so it was like a grill that
was there and they could just PLoP the blue light
on there. So you know, everybody was thinking that it
was a police officer. Now all of a sudden, they're
thinking that there are copycats out there that are going
to start pulling over tourists or you know, luring women
(24:52):
to the side and you know, doing something terrible to this.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Is that why people think?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
And the pers vehicles back then, they were using their
own cars.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
So really anybody who, like, with their own car could
just go buy a blue light.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Ten So, actually, in nineteen eighty two, the Honolulu Police
Department actually banned officers from using the supplemental blue lights
as a reaction to Lisa's unsolved murder because I think
it created a lot of mass hysteria, especially in Honolulu.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, I created a frenzy, right, and we're afraid.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
So afraid, like our mom. And so the other theory
that I think is absolutely crazy is that they were
trying to pin Lisa AU's murder on the Golden State killer,
who has now been identified as James DeAngelo, who is
a former police officer, or they actually thought that it
(25:48):
possibly like Lisa could have been the first murder in
the still unidentified serial killer known as the Honolulu Strangler.
And I honestly, like, i'd never heard about the Honolulu
Strangler until doing research for this actual case. Do you
know anything about it?
Speaker 3 (26:06):
Evet no, And that's no, I did not. And I
asked my friend again the same question, and she remembers
that case those cases as well, and I said, well,
do you think you know one had to do with
the other, And she said she didn't feel that way
at all. You know. So were you familiar with these
at all?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Trevor our true crime expert.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm familiar with the Golden State
Killer and Joseph James d'angelou. That was a huge thing
back in I guess twenty eighteen or so when he
was found out right, And it's a pretty common thing
that anytime one of these serial killers from you know,
decades past is discovered, that people try and connect them
(26:50):
with all these other unsolved cases where they don't know
who the killer is. I remember people thought, like, you know,
he could have been also the Zodiac, or that the
Zodiac was the the unibomber. You know. So people are
always like making these crazy connections between these famous serial killers,
and I get it. I understand where the temptation comes from.
But I was less familiar with the Honolulu strangler. However,
(27:13):
I had heard about it in reference to some DNA
technology announcements that had come out recently. It was one
of those cases where they thought they could use new
DNA technology to help solve the case, which has been
a really big thing in recent years. So I had
kind of heard about it in passing, but happy to
talk about it a little bit more here, because it
is an interesting case, and that one, more so than
(27:36):
the Golden State Killer, I think could have some legs
as a theory. So anyways, I'll just tell you about
it and then we can think about it a little bit. Okay,
makes any sense if it's connected to Lisa. But basically,
from May nineteen eighty five to April of nineteen eighty six,
five women were murdered in a similar fashion to one another.
(27:58):
Their names were Vicky gay Perdi, Regina Sakamoto, Denise Hughes,
Luis Madieros, and Linda Peschi. Each woman was found nude
with her hands bound behind her back, and three of
them had been sexually assaulted or raped. So already the
m O kind of sounds different from.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Lisa, right right, right, So.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Because Lisa's cause of death, though has still not really
been determined, it's difficult to tell if she had been strangled,
if she had been bound, if she had been sexually assaulted,
and since she was not found under any of those conditions,
there's not really a lot of evidence to back up
the theory that she was connected to the Honolulu strangler. Still, though,
it's you know, possible. It's possible that Lisa, you know,
(28:44):
having happened many years earlier, was like maybe the first
victim of the Honolulu Strangler, that maybe she was like
a test.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
A test case, a test case for.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Him, or I assume him, you know, and then he
would go on to murder and kill five other women.
You know, we've heard of that happening. You know, the
Zodiac case, for example, there were a number of unconnected cases,
unconfirmed cases that happened years years before the official Zodiac
killings that looked really really similar. So a lot of
people kind of assume that those cases are connected, but
(29:14):
that they were as I was just mentioning, like kind
of test cases for the Zodiac. So it's not unheard of,
could be connected, but you know, at the end of
the day, we don't have any way to confirm that.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It's funny that you mentioned the Zodiac because our great
uncle Steve Hodell connected, you know, he believes that our
great grandfather George Hodell was also the Zodiac killer.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah, it's like, what is that about that I didn't read.
They always try to put them all together.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I know I attributed to Aukham's razor, right, like the
simplest answer to any sort of complex issue is, you know,
the most easy one to digest, and therefore people attract
to them.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You always say these amazing nuggets, Trevor, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
I wish I could just get in your brain sometimes, Trevor,
in your pocket, Oh my gosh. But what do you guys? Okay, so,
but what do you think about Doug? Do you guys
think that the boyfriend could have done it? I mean,
what do you think?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I feel like Russia kind of said it already, you know.
I mean again, I know people are quick to, you know,
go for the partner as the person who likely did it,
and for good reason. I mean, that is very often
the case, right, I mean, I think the first people
you should look at are the people who know the victim, right,
people in close proximity, significant others, neighbors, et cetera, et cetera.
(30:39):
But in this case, it just feels unlikely. It feels
unlikely based off of his testimony. It feels unlikely based
on the fact that there's just nothing tying him to
the case. You know, I don't know if anybody else
had any thoughts, but.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I mean, you know, I have to agree with you.
I think originally I thought, yeah, it was a boyfriend
because you know, again I go back to like, how
do you let your girlfriend, you know, drive the Polly
and it's pouring rain at night, and you know, I'm
and there's an argument, and I think, well, maybe something
happened and so he planned all this, you know, something
(31:13):
bad happened or accidentally possibly, I don't know. But the
more that I think about it, I don't think the
boyfriend was the one who did it. I think that
my gut is leaning more towards a police officer, no what,
yeah or something. I just I just, yeah, things, things
(31:36):
are just not adding up, especially when we go back
and we're talking about like her body right and how
the coroner's the way that it was not cleaned and
bagged and like that. That's a procedure that is supposed
to be done. So why wasn't that done?
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Oh so there's a conspiracy theory work here.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So I'm just I'm just I mean, I don't know,
but that's just my two cents.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah see, and I always lean towards the boyfriend. But
because I don't want to hurt anyone, you know, Doug
has come out in you know, last few years especially,
you know, I think he was interviewed for what you
News now and he said, you know, because he's moved
on to Australia, has a family, has moved on in
his life. But he definitely, you know, has said that
(32:28):
he wants to find Lisa's killer and help in any
way that he can. But I still can't get it
out of my mind that he was the last person
to be with her. So I don't know, I just
valid point though, Yvet and Trevor. I just I want
Lisa to find justice.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Right, We just we just hope that the truth one
day comes out what really happened to her. Right, That's
the most important thing here exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
So now it's time for our last segment of the show,
Our Emua.
Speaker 5 (33:04):
This will be the.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Final part of every single episode of Facing Evil and
im in Hawaiian means to move onward and upward, and
most importantly, to move forward. It's our final message of
hope and healing that we want to give to each
of you. Today. We dedicate our Emua to Lisa Ao
and all the other people in Hawaii who never had
(33:28):
their cases resolved.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
It's so important to us today to spread this message
of hope that we will find the truth about Lisa
and that the land, the Aina of Hawaii will provide
that truth absolutely and hopefully this will bring some peace
(33:51):
to Lisa's Ohanna.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Onward and upward.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Emua emua.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well, that's our show for today, our very first one.
Mahala nui la. Thank you so much for joining us.
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case that you'd like us to cover,
you can always find us on social media or email
us at Facing Evil pod at tenderfoot dot tv until
(34:22):
next time.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
Aloha.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia pacquerero In, Avet Schintile,
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. Our executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, with users Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald
Albright In Payne Lindsay, our executive producers on behalf of
(35:06):
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Dafrico.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
social media or email us at facingevilpod at tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(35:30):
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