March 30, 2023 • 46 mins
In one of the most shocking stories of 2008, 15-year-old Larry King was killed in a middle school classroom by a fellow student in Oxnard, CA. Larry was openly gay, and was constantly bullied for his sexual orientation. So how did bullying lead to murder? We talk about Larry's life with one of his best friends from school named Tiger.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Hello, everyone, welcome back
(00:28):
to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Peccarero and I'm Yvette Genteelee
and this week we're talking about the murder of Larry King,
or sometimes known as Letitia King as well. This is
a murder that took place in broad daylight, in the
classroom full of children. Yes, that's right. This murder took
(00:50):
place in two thousand and eight, and it is arguably
one of the most prominent anti LGBTQ murders since the
murder of Matthew Shephard ten years. Ellen DeGeneres and Hillary
Clinton even sent their condolences at the time, and across
the country there were vigils and marches all in Larry's name. Yeah,
(01:12):
and like I said, it happened in a junior high
on a school day, and this brings up all kinds
of questions about how this was able to escalate to
the point of murder in a classroom. Today, we're going
to be talking with a friend of Larry's, and that
is Tiger. She has courageously agreed to speak with us,
(01:34):
and so I'm very grateful to have her on the show. Yes,
so grateful. But now our producer Trevor is going to
take us through today's case. You know, at first it
looked like a simple hate crime, but as students and
teachers testified at the trial last week, a much more
complicated picture has begun to emerge. He's remembered as friendly
(01:55):
and outgoing, but fellow students say he became the subject
of taunts and bullying in school. You're speaking out about
his sexual orientation and reportedly wearing makeup, lipstick, and jewelry
to school. It's inconceivable that anybody could be that angry
at a kid that was that nice. Larry King, who
also went by Letitia, was a fifteen year old who
(02:16):
was killed by a classmate in two thousand and eight
in Oxnard, California. Larry was openly gay and often presented
very effeminate. They came out when they were ten years
old as early. As then, Larry was frequently bullied for
their sexual identity. In seventh grade, Larry transferred to EO.
Green Junior High School, and there Larry found a tight
(02:39):
knit group of girls to be friends with, and by
all accounts, expressed their identity proudly, wearing dresses, high heels,
and makeup. One friend even said that quote he wore
makeup better than I did. End quote. But the boys
at this new school bullied Larry ruthlessly. Larry responded defiantly,
(03:00):
reportedly talking back to their taunts by saying things like quote,
I know you want me. One of Larry's most frequent
antagonizers was a fourteen year old boy named Brandon mcinnerney.
Larry told some friends that something romantic had happened between them,
but the mood between them during most school days was hostile.
(03:21):
One day, Larry walked down the hall and said to Brandon, quote,
love you baby. Brandon became incensed and told one of
Larry's friends that they would never see Larry alive again.
On the morning of February fourteenth, Larry came to school
dressed unusually. They'd left their feminine clothes at home in
(03:41):
favor of baggy pants and sneakers. They were acting strangely,
too nervous, it seemed, Teachers say Larry kept looking over
their shoulder. Later that morning, Larry sat down in the
school computer lab and wrote their name on a piece
of paper. They wrote it as Latitia King. It was
one of the last things Larry would ever write. Later
(04:03):
that school period, Brandon mcinnerney drew a twenty two caliber
revolver and shot Larry twice in the back of the head.
Larry King died in the hospital just two days later.
Brandon was apprehended, but public opinion both the trial and
press coverage that followed was split. The defense claimed that
(04:24):
Larry had made themselves a target with over the top
gay behavior at school. Others called this a gay panic defense,
and LGBTQ activists rallied behind Larry. In twenty eleven, Brandon
McInerney was sentenced to twenty one years in prison for
second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, and the use of a firearm.
(04:45):
And so, who was Larry or Letitia King? And how
does the story reflect the very real dangers that queer
teenagers face in schools across America today? We have the
honor of speaking with someone who knew Larry King. Joining
(05:06):
us now is Tiger, who was a close friend and
a classmate of Larry's. Tiger, welcome to Facing Evil. Thank
you for having me. It's been a while since I've
talked to anybody about it, has it? Yeah, But we're
really happy that you're here with us today, and I'm
just gonna jump right into the story. You know, this
(05:30):
is such an important emotional story, you know, especially for you.
Can you start by just telling us how you first
met Larry and what your relationship was. So we met
in third grade and I had been new to the school.
We had just moved from one side of town to
(05:52):
the other, and didn't really have a lot of friends.
I was just this little weird kid and I was
larger than everybody. I was like a foot taller than everybody,
a little chunky kid with a crazy fluffy, cheated jacket,
and I thought I was the coolest until I went
to that school when I was not, and I just
(06:15):
was like, Okay, this is my life now, and just
happened to meet him. He was in the same class,
and everybody else was making fun of my jacket, and
he was like, can I wear that? And he wore
my jacket from the day and that's how we became friends.
I love that. I do have a quick question for you, Tiger.
(06:38):
I always want to be respectful, And there of course
has been you know, different reports, different things said about
Larry as far as Larry's gender identity. As Larry's best
friend from third grade, can you just give us a
little tidbit about that. He was still in the process
(07:00):
of figuring himself out, and we all were at that age,
of course, so he was still going through who is he?
What is he going to be? Who is he going
to be? And during the time when he passed, he
was still Larry. He was still he. He was figuring
(07:21):
himself out, and he did go by Latitias sometimes, he
did want to be called her sometimes, but at the
end of the day, he was still he, and he
was still Larry. So I don't feel that it's up
to us or anybody that's doing a story about him
to make that judgment, because he wasn't given that chance
(07:42):
to make that judgment for himself. He didn't get to
live long enough to figure it out. So out of
respect for him, he should still be called Larry, and
he should still be he him because that's who he was.
When he left, beautifully said thank you, thank you for that.
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I completely agree
(08:06):
with you. You know, you said, you guys, you know,
basically you grew up together, right starting at third grade?
Did you know about what Larry was going through at home?
Did he ever talk to you about what was going on?
Back then? We were very very close, and our families
knew each other, and there was nothing really off limits.
(08:28):
So we were both very open with each other about
the abuse that we were going through as kids. And
so I knew a lot about his past. I knew
a lot about you know, as much as he knew
at the time. And then as he learned more, he
would tell me more, and as things would happen, he
would tell me what happened. So I was pretty in
(08:49):
tune with what was going on in his personal life
and where he had come from. I was thinking about
this too, because I grew up in Hawaii, where it was,
you know, a melting pot, a little bit of everything
in me, myself being biracial. It was a great place
to grow up. But you guys grew up in Oxnard, California,
(09:10):
did you find that there was diversity there or did
you not? Like, can you tell me a little bit
of what it was like growing up in Oxnard, California
being biracial. So in Oxnard, there's a lot of cultural
diversity as adults. As children, it's much more judgmental. So
there might be a large group of mixed children, but
(09:35):
you can never really find your people because you're mixed children.
You're too white for black folks, you're too black for
white folks. It's one of the other. You can't really
find yourself and your people, and mixed kids tend to
just stay by themselves instead of grouping together and becoming
(09:57):
that well where the mixed group. It doesn't really work
like that because especially as a mixed kid who sees
that you don't want to become another closed door for
somebody else. So you just learned to create your own
and stick to yourself instead of building another group of
(10:18):
people to shun somebody else out. You find your people
here and there, and a lot of the times you
don't fit in with anybody, or you fit in with everybody,
and you have to rely on yourself more than anybody else,
and it raises tough kids but those tough kids become
tough adults and that has built a really tough community,
(10:43):
and tough isn't always good. I'm so sorry that you
went through that, Tiger, and I'm also sorry how you
mentioned that you went through abuse like Larry did as well. Oh,
don't be sorry, don't be sold. It's all past. And
it's sad to say, but most of the people who
grew up where we grew up, that's not an uncommon thing,
(11:07):
really very normal. So to hear kids that are having
good childhoods is more of a surprise than not. At
the end of the day, we can't change how we
grew up, but I'm not going to continue that path
for my daughter. I can't continue that path. So I'm
(11:27):
not sorry for anything that I went through. I'm not
regretting anything that I went through, because, like I said before,
it raises tough adults. But I chose my toughness to
go through, loving people and keep caring for people and
doing things. I wouldn't have been the way I am
(11:49):
if I hadn't had the childhood that I had. So
it has its negatives, but everything has negatives and positives.
You just got to choose what's one are you're gonna
look at. I love everything that you've shared with us, Tiger,
every single word, and I feel like I can only
step back in time or imagine what it was like
for you and Larry to be friends going through life.
(12:11):
Can you share a little bit about what you bonded over,
what you like to do? You know, we want to
know about who Larry was as a human before Larry
was a victim. Oh, he was fucking crazy. Sorry, in
a good way, right, He was very, very crazy. We
both were, but that's kind of just what made us us.
(12:34):
We both came from broken homes and that built our friendship.
And we were both dealing with so much, but we
were able to confide in somebody who understood. So we
learned to grow together more and more and more. The
more that things happened. We were trouble. We were not like, oh,
(12:57):
there's those good little kids. No, it was like, oh lord,
what are they getting into? Now? They're being quiet, so
we know they're up to something. Yeah, we was those kids.
We were the kids that, like you had to place
them on one side of the room to keep them
apart from each other. We were trouble. I'm gonna flip
(13:20):
the switch a little bit, and I'm going to ask
you a question about Brandon. You know Brandon McInerney. Did
you Did you know him personally? I ain't heard that
night even so long. Oh well, we knew each other
out of school. My mom helped his mom when his
(13:43):
mom was going through her addiction and getting away from
her abusive relationship with his father. Wow. So my mom
was kind of like a sponsor for her and would
help kind of get her on the right track. So
he actually went to like he was visiting his mom,
(14:04):
and I was. I was very active in what my
mom did. She kind of forced us into it. So
I knew a lot of the people that were going
through the addiction struggles and the yeah, the women and
children centered things like that. I was very well known
among them. And so we first met when he was
visiting his mama at one of the shelter things or
(14:27):
I forget what exactly it was, but we met there.
And I don't know if he remembers that or not.
He was not happy to be there, which I don't
blame him. Who would. Yeah, he was dealing with his
own stuff and that bulled over into helping him grow
into the person that he became. Sure, did you too
(14:51):
speak at that time? No, no, I had a tendency
to be paraded around to make my family look good,
and he was just dealing with his mama. But me
and him, slowly but surely, I met him when I
switched over to EO. Green in seventh grade. So when
(15:13):
I switched to that school, me and him met and
became kind of friends. And we had a pretty good
friendship going as far as I knew until eighth grade.
Then it started getting rocky. You know, we're all going
through who we are and what we are, and in
(15:34):
the middle of all this, we're all most of us
dealing with things at home too. Sure, so all of
those combined create a very toxic environment in the school
because you've got all these kids who are already going
through hormonal things, through growth spurred through emotional issues, through
(15:55):
family issues, and just trying to get through junior high.
Like it, it's a lot. It's a lot for anybody,
And unfortunately, he paired up with some other kids that
were just as toxic and became one of the problem
groups in the school because of their way of coping
(16:20):
with what we were all dealing with I see, so
that was happening even before he was bullying Larry. It's
hard to say before bullying Larry, because Larry has been
bullied every day of his life. There was never a
time in our childhood where I was not around that
(16:40):
he was not being bullied. And in the beginning of
seventh grade he was having a really hard time because
we had went to separate schools and he ended up
in EO. Green. I ended up in Blackstock, which is
another junior high not that far sure, and he had
to deal all by himself. Yeah, when we were separate,
(17:04):
I was sad and he was hurt. I'm thankful that
he had you with him despite all that toxic, horrific
energy around him. Don't let it for you. We had
our fights. We fought like siblings. Here is your brother,
you said, yeah. Yeah. It was one of those things
where you keep fighting each other and then they do
(17:27):
this no contact contract, right, so you've got to go
like fourteen days without touching, talking, nothing, and we'd last
like my baby twenty four hours and then be back
to normal. And finally the school pulled in our parents
and was like, we can't get them to stop talking.
(17:49):
We keep doing the no contact, and finally his guardians
and my mother was like, at this point, just stop trying.
They're gonna work it out on their own. Like they're
gonna fight, but they're gonna work it out. Just let
them deal with it. So they stopped trying to do
that with us. The fact that you came back to
(18:10):
the school, I'm sure it allowed him to have a
little bit more freedom. He knew his tiger was somewhere nearby.
Oh yeah, and whenever there was issues, he knew where
to go. Like it wasn't one of those. He's dealing
with issues. He can't confine me. We would find each
other regardless. So I'm gonna push you to be you
(18:33):
because I don't like fake shit, So you just don't
have to be you, and just don't worry about other people.
I don't care about other people. I'm gonna be me regardless,
so I expect that from the people around me. I
do occasionally regret pushing him to be himself so much,
(18:56):
because in the end, no matter who pulled the trigger,
no matter what the reason may be that led up
to that, and it's a part of that lineup of
how did this happen. So there are quite a few
times that I regret not telling him to just just
chill out a little bit, knowing where we lived. But
(19:20):
I think even if he did that and lived through everything,
he wouldn't really have lived through everything. He would have
had a half life. That's not fair to him. So
you can't really ask out of somebody. You should live
your life to the fullest, one hundred percent. Don't water
(19:40):
it down. Don't be somebody's cup of tea, be somebody's
shot of whiskey. And if they can't swallow you, let
him choke. Well I'll tigree with everything that you know
(20:09):
you've been so open with us about. If please, if
you don't feel comfortable talking about this, please don't feel
like you have to. You know, we do not sensationalize,
nor do we want to sensationalize what happened, and we
never want to do that on facing evil. But from
your perspective, what was it like the day that Larry
(20:34):
was shot? So the day that he got shot, I
was late to school. I had been dealing with some
stuff at home and I just I was late, and
I got there to the front area right as he
(20:54):
got there. Because he was late as well, okay, And
the first thing that I noticed was he always wore
this collar shirt, a gray sweatshirt on top of that
with his little collar sticking app and these baggy two
size two big like dark blue uniform pants that were
(21:17):
just baggy and horrible, and these torn up tennis shoes
that just did not do him justice. And that was
what he wore every day, every day. So there was
never anything that you'd be like, okay, that's different. Until
the few months leading up to the shooting, he had
(21:37):
went to oh lord, I can't remember the facility Cosa PACIFICA. Yes,
so he'd been moved into the facility right before all
this happened. He was given his choice of clothing, so
he was able to pick out girls clothes, girls pants,
and was changing his style up and figuring himself out.
(22:00):
So at that point you didn't really know what he
was going to come to school wearing. There was a
day he came to school in boots and you were like,
I know, your feet hurt, boots, And let me tell you,
he walked them things through that school and I was like,
my back hurt just thinking about it. But he did,
(22:24):
and he just wanted to figure himself out. He wanted
to be him, and that day he was wearing the
usual outfit that he would wear, the little sweater and
all that numb It just seemed weird, and he was
running off into his class. I got moved to the
(22:47):
special education class, the gift in Talented, and I was
in that class with Brandon, and then they moved Brandon
into that class into the computer class. Yeah, that's how
I ended up in that classroom at the same time.
I see. They were right across from each other, so
(23:08):
we were going in the same direction and I called
out to him, and instead of the usual turnaround saying
something smart ass and getting along with our day, he
turned around really scared and then just kind of went
running off to his class. And I was like, that
was weird. Yeah, like it doesn't make sense, but okay,
(23:29):
you do you and didn't really think much of it.
And his class ended up going to the computer room,
which is right down the hall from where we were,
and we heard the first shot, and I remember everybody
talking about like, who's slamming doors? Didn't even sound like
(23:51):
a gunshot? Well, most kids run there weren't used to guns.
I grew up around guns, So did you know you knew? Yeah, automatically,
I was like, suns wrong. A couple of minutes passed,
and then a second one they assumed somebody was slamming
a door, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And
then the secretary from the front was on the speaker like, oh,
(24:18):
we're on lockdown. Everybody get down, everybody lock your doors.
And I made a stupid joke about, oh, somebody got shot.
Oh shit, yeah, and didn't think twice of it, me
being the class clown. And we all locked down. We're
(24:42):
all sitting on the floor talking and stuff, and we're
just assuming somebody acted a fool. And I'm like, I'm
still thinking, like that didn't sound right, but maybe, you know,
maybe I'm just crazy. And then Melissa, one of the
girls that I was friends with, and she got a
(25:05):
text from somebody else in Larry's class that said Brandon
shawt Larry, and she yelled it out to the class
and it all kind of went hazy at that point.
Of course. Yeah, I was told by the teacher at
(25:26):
that time that I fell down and then started screaming
I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew. You don't
even remember that. I don't remember nothing until a little
bit later on he blacked it out. I don't I
don't blame you. I was sitting there screaming I knew,
and she didn't really understand what was going on, and
(25:49):
she said she'd tried to get it out of me,
tried to figure out what I was talking about, and
I eventually told her I knew he was going to
shoot him, And so she got ahold of one of
the police officers that was outside, and they were like, yeah,
we'll get her in a second and pull her aside
(26:10):
and talk to her. And somebody was at the window.
We had pretty high windows, and they said they saw
him getting wheeled out, and that's kind of when I
start to come to not a whole lot, but I
remember thinking, like in a wheelchair, it just wasn't computing right.
(26:35):
So they were like, yeah, they're wheeling him out. I'm like,
you know, he can walk, he can walk in heels.
That boy could walk right out those school. Just not
not understanding your heart was probably protecting you from the trauma,
of course. Yeah, oh yeah. I was completely shut down,
completely shut down, and then all up a little bit
(26:58):
hazy again. And then I remember being in front of
an officer in the cafeteria. All the tables were out,
and ever so often you'd see a detective or an
officer and a student, and I remember talking to him
(27:19):
about what had happened. He's like, you you told your
teacher you knew, And I'm like, I did. I knew
the day before. I don't think I told y'all that.
So the day before the shooting, at lunch, Larry was
kind of being a fool doing whatever, and I was like,
I'm gonna go do my own thing. And from what
(27:40):
I've heard from other people, he was hanging out with
another group of girls that I don't really associate with.
They weren't my cup of tea, so they were hanging
out with him, and I guess they were all asking
people to be their Valentines and things like that, and
they convinced him to ask Brandon to be his valid
time and he asked him in front of all the
(28:03):
boys they were all playing basketball, and they started teasing
him about it. He got pissed and I'm not around.
I don't know any of that. So that is all
that's what I heard. Yeah, that is all here safe, right,
But as the bell rang. We're all headed to our
classes after lunch, and mine was art, so I'm headed there,
(28:28):
and Brandon came up to me and told me to
say goodbye to Larry because I wasn't going to see
him again, and me, not thinking about it, was like,
you're a dumb piece of shit. And we exchanged a
few words, and I told him what I thought about him,
(28:48):
and that was that that's the day before, right the
day before, Yes, And then after school I ended up
having attention and I end up going out, and Larry
was still there waiting for his ride because he was
at the facility still. So they came to pick him
(29:08):
up from school, and he looked real like battered up.
His hair was all a mess, his shirt was all
ripped up. He'd been in a scuffle, and so I
asked him automatically what the heck happened, and he didn't
(29:29):
want to tell me, and I just kept on and
kept on and kept on, and I'm like, I'm not
gonna let you get in the car until you tell
me what's going on. And finally he told me it
was some of the boys, but he wouldn't name any names.
YadA YadA, and again from hearing it from other people.
Supposedly it was the group of boys including Brandon, the
(29:50):
basketball boys. Yes, it was the group of boys around
the courts when he did the Valentine Game or whatever
they called it. But he would and tell me because
he knows, yeah, I'm a mess. So he didn't want
me to get in the middle of it, and so
I was like okay. Still didn't put two and two together,
(30:12):
but I'm like okay. And then fast forward to after
the incident. I don't really remember much of talking to
the officer. I remember explaining what had happened. I remember
being in front of him, but I don't remember actually
talking to him. And then the moment that I really
(30:35):
came to I think it was Jackie. I can't remember
the night, but she was one of the people that
were sitting right next to him, and I was leaving
the cafeteria as she was coming into the cafeteria and
she had blood on her and that's really the moment
(30:58):
where I was like, I'm back, something's really wrong here.
They eventually let us go home, and everybody was trying
to figure out what was going on, and I was
trying to figure out how to get to the hospital
and they were just like, he's dealing with a lot.
They're going to be doing a lot. Just give them
some time. And I'm like, okay, like I don't want to,
(31:21):
but they're like, you don't need to be there right now,
not right now with why he is, You're gonna lose it.
Just give them some time. And so I was still
under the impression that he was very much alive and
going to make it. Yeah, it was going through surgery,
dealing with his health. Obviously he's not gonna die, right,
(31:44):
He's just dealing with some health issues. And the next
day we all went back to school. The school didn't
shut down like what they did. Their answer to everything
was we're going to put some crisis counselors in the
library if you need them, and there was three counselors
(32:09):
available for a whole school. Wow. I decided. I was like,
he's gonna be fine. I'll see him after school. He'll
be fine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna
make this huge ass card for him. I went to
one of my teachers, I can't remember which one, and
I was like, I need some card stock. So broke
(32:31):
into the drawer because she didn't want to give it
to me, and got some big old card stock paper
and I made this huge, almost like a booklet card
and I wrote a message, and then somebody else was like,
oh well, let me mount a message, and then little
(32:51):
by little, everybody started writing message. So I kept having
an add paper and add paper and add paper, and
pretty soon I couldn't break into the desk no more.
So I ended up with this little booklet of just
people writing notes saying they were sorry, and a lot
of a lot of the messages are people saying they're
(33:12):
sorry for making fun of him so much and bullying
him and beating him up. And instead of it being hey,
get better, because the front of it says get well soon,
that was my mindset. Instead it became a confessional and
everybody saying their confession and signing their name. And I
(33:35):
still have that tiger, you know, I I'm so sorry,
(33:59):
Like my heart breaks for you and for all of
you guys, all of the kids that had to go
through that, Like you shouldn't have been the one to
go get the paper. Your teachers, you know, should have
made that something that you all did together. And to
just have like three counselors they should have. That's just
(34:21):
as devastating to me, and I'm just I'm sorry in
so many ways possible that you you had to go
through this without you know, a support system, especially especially
at that age. They are raising tough kids. Yeah, so
if they didn't need therapy and all this stuff growing up,
(34:44):
why would these kids need therapy and stuff growing up?
It's generations of lack of care and we were just
one of the generations at different time, a different era.
I get that, you know, but it's still it's like,
my heart just breaks for you guys. You know. I
know you're a tough woman and you've you've moved through this,
(35:05):
and you know I've created your own life and forged through.
But still I wish that the teachers would have done
something for Larry, Like, did they do anything for Larry?
Did they they saw in the card? Not all of them.
In fact, we had one teacher who said he shouldn't
have been living his life the way he was living
(35:27):
in it and it wouldn't have happened. I think I
saw that on the documentary that you were all featured
in Valentine Road. Yeah, yeah, she very proudly stated that,
and me and her headbutted heads a few times. She
was very hardcore in her beliefs. But you don't say
that to kids that are still struggling now. So you're
(35:51):
saying till this day, there's still no monument to Larry
at this school. There's no tree, there's no bench. There
is there something. There's a tree without Larry's name, right.
They made it very clear it was gonna be for Larry.
We fought for that tree. We had to jump through
hoops to get that tree. And at the end of
(36:13):
the day they planted the tree and would not mention
his name. Well, we will keep mentioning his name, Tiger absolutely.
I mean if you ask kids nowadays, they won't know,
they won't know what that's tree for. They wouldn't even
recognize it because it ain't put up somewhere special. There's
nothing really beautiful around it. There's nothing. And the whole
(36:36):
point about it was it was supposed to be this
beautiful tree to show the growth that he didn't get
to do, and to have these flowers around it, to
pull in butterflies because those were his favorite. Trea like,
there was so much planned and at the end of
the day, why would you say his name, we will,
(36:57):
And that's why it's so important that you know around
the show today to tell this story, because this is
a powerful story that everybody needs to hear. It's a
story that a lot of people have forgotten. That's so true.
And that's the beauty of storytelling, right, beautiful part of
podcasting and television, movies and all these things. We can
(37:20):
still tell these stories. And I know, to you, Larry
is not just a story. Oh no, not at all,
not at all. And I'd love to know, because you're
a strong, amazing human being, how has Larry affected your life?
And how did you move onward and upward through everything
(37:41):
you had to go through through this horrific trauma. I
didn't for a long time, and just like everybody else,
we didn't deal with it. We didn't have appropriate support
to deal with it. So you learn not to deal
with it. It's the story of that name, like that
whole area. That's just how we deal with things. We don't.
(38:05):
We just sweep it onto the rug and keep moving.
And then I'd say probably when I was an adult,
probably about eighteen nineteen, that's when I really started figuring
my emotions out and healing from my own trauma from
(38:26):
my own family and my own past, and didn't realize
how much that still affected me until that topic was
brought up in therapy and I was like, no, let's
not dig into that. So it took a lot of therapy,
a lot, and therapy is amazing. Yes, yes, yes, therapy
(38:51):
and a lot of medication, and it finally got me
to the point where I could come to terms. You're
never gonna be okay with it, but you can come
to terms to the point that you're okay with life now.
And are you okay with life now? Tiger? Oh? Yeah, No,
(39:14):
I have a beautiful life. My son has his initials
his Lawrence vos L, and my son is named Lyndon
Frasier L. So that was one of the ways that
I wanted to represent him. And then my daughter we
(39:36):
have wind chimes with butterflies for him. We talk about
him regularly. He's an active part of her family history
and it's it's part of why I live so goal focused. Now. Yes,
(39:56):
I have a very very productive life. I have beautiful
things to show for it. I have a beautiful family,
beautiful businesses. I have a beautiful life, Tiger. If you
want to share, maybe how you want people to remember Larry,
or how you remember Larry. It's not so much about
(40:17):
remembering him, and I don't think he would want it
to be about remembering him. Well, depending on the day,
he's kind of cocky. But it's not about him. This
story isn't singular. There's entirely too many people dealing with
similar situations and having similar stories. And I don't think
(40:41):
that his death is just about him, and I don't
feel that his story should be about just him. I
think that his story is one stitch in a blanket
of so many similar people who are dealing with the
(41:02):
same pain and the same confusion and the same growth
that he was dealing with. And if we single out
one person, then you don't get to see the whole blanket.
You can't look at one string and go, man, that's
a gorgeous pattern, because it's not. It's one string. But
(41:23):
when you step back and you look at everybody that's
dealing with similar situations, it's not just a story. It's reality.
And his story is the reality for entirely too many
people up to this day. And I think it shouldn't
be about what happened to him and how it ended
(41:45):
it should be about you know, the eighth graders that
are here right now, yes, who are going through this
right now. Absolutely, his story is not about him dying.
His story is about that eighth grader today who's going
to be able to live their life to the fullest
because somebody somewhere remembered that story that they heard about
(42:11):
that little boy getting shot, and they took his story
serious and looked out for him and made sure that
that little boy got to grow up and make his
choices for his life and have his future. Larry's story
isn't his. We're all a part of it, but at
the end of the day, his story is for the
(42:33):
little kids now who need a future that is safe.
So I don't think that anyone should just focus on him,
although I'm sure he'd love it, but I'm just saying
I am sure he'd be all about it. But at
the end of the day, it's not his story. This
(42:57):
is humanity story and how we choose to move forward
with it and if we want this to continue or not. Yes, agreed.
I don't even have words because you have just said
so many powerful things on this episode that we can
(43:21):
all reach deep in our souls and take a look
at you know, and have these important conversations. And that's
why you know we have you here on facing evil
to share your story, to share, like you said, our story,
it's our collective story, it's our quilt right that we
(43:45):
will continue to stitch, stitch by stitch, just like you said, Tiger,
Thank you again, thank you for sharing all of our stories.
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to people
like Larry King. Larry was flamboyant, Larry was unapologetic, and
(44:11):
Larry was utterly himself. He had the strength to be
himself even when it wasn't comfortable. That kind of strength
can really inspire people around you, even people you don't
realize you're inspiring. In the documentary Valentine Road, a friend
of Larry, said that he inspired her to feel comfortable
(44:32):
enough to dress as she liked and eventually to come
out as gay. Bold behavior inspires others to be bold
and to speak their own truth. It's all a part
of building a world that's more open, healthier, and ultimately
happier and safer for everyone. And that is a truly
(44:53):
beautiful thing. So to Larry and others like him, onward
and upward. Emua, emua. Well, that's our show for today.
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
(45:15):
Find us on social media or email us at Facing
Evil pot at Tenderfoot dot tv. And one small request
if you haven't already, please find us on iTunes and
give us a good rating and a good review. If
you like what we do, your support is always cherished.
Until next time, ah Loja. Facing Evil is a production
(45:52):
of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The show is hosted by
Russia Peccarero and a Vetchantile. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams
our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor
Young and Jesse Funk, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay our
executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan.
(46:14):
Our researcher is Carolyn Talmidge. Original music by Makeup and
Vanity Set. Find us on social media or email us
at Facing Evil pot at Tenderfoot dot tv. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Hello, everyone, welcome back
(00:28):
to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Peccarero and I'm Yvette Genteelee
and this week we're talking about the murder of Larry King,
or sometimes known as Letitia King as well. This is
a murder that took place in broad daylight, in the
classroom full of children. Yes, that's right. This murder took
(00:50):
place in two thousand and eight, and it is arguably
one of the most prominent anti LGBTQ murders since the
murder of Matthew Shephard ten years. Ellen DeGeneres and Hillary
Clinton even sent their condolences at the time, and across
the country there were vigils and marches all in Larry's name. Yeah,
(01:12):
and like I said, it happened in a junior high
on a school day, and this brings up all kinds
of questions about how this was able to escalate to
the point of murder in a classroom. Today, we're going
to be talking with a friend of Larry's, and that
is Tiger. She has courageously agreed to speak with us,
(01:34):
and so I'm very grateful to have her on the show. Yes,
so grateful. But now our producer Trevor is going to
take us through today's case. You know, at first it
looked like a simple hate crime, but as students and
teachers testified at the trial last week, a much more
complicated picture has begun to emerge. He's remembered as friendly
(01:55):
and outgoing, but fellow students say he became the subject
of taunts and bullying in school. You're speaking out about
his sexual orientation and reportedly wearing makeup, lipstick, and jewelry
to school. It's inconceivable that anybody could be that angry
at a kid that was that nice. Larry King, who
also went by Letitia, was a fifteen year old who
(02:16):
was killed by a classmate in two thousand and eight
in Oxnard, California. Larry was openly gay and often presented
very effeminate. They came out when they were ten years
old as early. As then, Larry was frequently bullied for
their sexual identity. In seventh grade, Larry transferred to EO.
Green Junior High School, and there Larry found a tight
(02:39):
knit group of girls to be friends with, and by
all accounts, expressed their identity proudly, wearing dresses, high heels,
and makeup. One friend even said that quote he wore
makeup better than I did. End quote. But the boys
at this new school bullied Larry ruthlessly. Larry responded defiantly,
(03:00):
reportedly talking back to their taunts by saying things like quote,
I know you want me. One of Larry's most frequent
antagonizers was a fourteen year old boy named Brandon mcinnerney.
Larry told some friends that something romantic had happened between them,
but the mood between them during most school days was hostile.
(03:21):
One day, Larry walked down the hall and said to Brandon, quote,
love you baby. Brandon became incensed and told one of
Larry's friends that they would never see Larry alive again.
On the morning of February fourteenth, Larry came to school
dressed unusually. They'd left their feminine clothes at home in
(03:41):
favor of baggy pants and sneakers. They were acting strangely,
too nervous, it seemed, Teachers say Larry kept looking over
their shoulder. Later that morning, Larry sat down in the
school computer lab and wrote their name on a piece
of paper. They wrote it as Latitia King. It was
one of the last things Larry would ever write. Later
(04:03):
that school period, Brandon mcinnerney drew a twenty two caliber
revolver and shot Larry twice in the back of the head.
Larry King died in the hospital just two days later.
Brandon was apprehended, but public opinion both the trial and
press coverage that followed was split. The defense claimed that
(04:24):
Larry had made themselves a target with over the top
gay behavior at school. Others called this a gay panic defense,
and LGBTQ activists rallied behind Larry. In twenty eleven, Brandon
McInerney was sentenced to twenty one years in prison for
second degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, and the use of a firearm.
(04:45):
And so, who was Larry or Letitia King? And how
does the story reflect the very real dangers that queer
teenagers face in schools across America today? We have the
honor of speaking with someone who knew Larry King. Joining
(05:06):
us now is Tiger, who was a close friend and
a classmate of Larry's. Tiger, welcome to Facing Evil. Thank
you for having me. It's been a while since I've
talked to anybody about it, has it? Yeah, But we're
really happy that you're here with us today, and I'm
just gonna jump right into the story. You know, this
(05:30):
is such an important emotional story, you know, especially for you.
Can you start by just telling us how you first
met Larry and what your relationship was. So we met
in third grade and I had been new to the school.
We had just moved from one side of town to
(05:52):
the other, and didn't really have a lot of friends.
I was just this little weird kid and I was
larger than everybody. I was like a foot taller than everybody,
a little chunky kid with a crazy fluffy, cheated jacket,
and I thought I was the coolest until I went
to that school when I was not, and I just
(06:15):
was like, Okay, this is my life now, and just
happened to meet him. He was in the same class,
and everybody else was making fun of my jacket, and
he was like, can I wear that? And he wore
my jacket from the day and that's how we became friends.
I love that. I do have a quick question for you, Tiger.
(06:38):
I always want to be respectful, And there of course
has been you know, different reports, different things said about
Larry as far as Larry's gender identity. As Larry's best
friend from third grade, can you just give us a
little tidbit about that. He was still in the process
(07:00):
of figuring himself out, and we all were at that age,
of course, so he was still going through who is he?
What is he going to be? Who is he going
to be? And during the time when he passed, he
was still Larry. He was still he. He was figuring
(07:21):
himself out, and he did go by Latitias sometimes, he
did want to be called her sometimes, but at the
end of the day, he was still he, and he
was still Larry. So I don't feel that it's up
to us or anybody that's doing a story about him
to make that judgment, because he wasn't given that chance
(07:42):
to make that judgment for himself. He didn't get to
live long enough to figure it out. So out of
respect for him, he should still be called Larry, and
he should still be he him because that's who he was.
When he left, beautifully said thank you, thank you for that.
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I completely agree
(08:06):
with you. You know, you said, you guys, you know,
basically you grew up together, right starting at third grade?
Did you know about what Larry was going through at home?
Did he ever talk to you about what was going on?
Back then? We were very very close, and our families
knew each other, and there was nothing really off limits.
(08:28):
So we were both very open with each other about
the abuse that we were going through as kids. And
so I knew a lot about his past. I knew
a lot about you know, as much as he knew
at the time. And then as he learned more, he
would tell me more, and as things would happen, he
would tell me what happened. So I was pretty in
(08:49):
tune with what was going on in his personal life
and where he had come from. I was thinking about
this too, because I grew up in Hawaii, where it was,
you know, a melting pot, a little bit of everything
in me, myself being biracial. It was a great place
to grow up. But you guys grew up in Oxnard, California,
(09:10):
did you find that there was diversity there or did
you not? Like, can you tell me a little bit
of what it was like growing up in Oxnard, California
being biracial. So in Oxnard, there's a lot of cultural
diversity as adults. As children, it's much more judgmental. So
there might be a large group of mixed children, but
(09:35):
you can never really find your people because you're mixed children.
You're too white for black folks, you're too black for
white folks. It's one of the other. You can't really
find yourself and your people, and mixed kids tend to
just stay by themselves instead of grouping together and becoming
(09:57):
that well where the mixed group. It doesn't really work
like that because especially as a mixed kid who sees
that you don't want to become another closed door for
somebody else. So you just learned to create your own
and stick to yourself instead of building another group of
(10:18):
people to shun somebody else out. You find your people
here and there, and a lot of the times you
don't fit in with anybody, or you fit in with everybody,
and you have to rely on yourself more than anybody else,
and it raises tough kids but those tough kids become
tough adults and that has built a really tough community,
(10:43):
and tough isn't always good. I'm so sorry that you
went through that, Tiger, and I'm also sorry how you
mentioned that you went through abuse like Larry did as well. Oh,
don't be sorry, don't be sold. It's all past. And
it's sad to say, but most of the people who
grew up where we grew up, that's not an uncommon thing,
(11:07):
really very normal. So to hear kids that are having
good childhoods is more of a surprise than not. At
the end of the day, we can't change how we
grew up, but I'm not going to continue that path
for my daughter. I can't continue that path. So I'm
(11:27):
not sorry for anything that I went through. I'm not
regretting anything that I went through, because, like I said before,
it raises tough adults. But I chose my toughness to
go through, loving people and keep caring for people and
doing things. I wouldn't have been the way I am
(11:49):
if I hadn't had the childhood that I had. So
it has its negatives, but everything has negatives and positives.
You just got to choose what's one are you're gonna
look at. I love everything that you've shared with us, Tiger,
every single word, and I feel like I can only
step back in time or imagine what it was like
for you and Larry to be friends going through life.
(12:11):
Can you share a little bit about what you bonded over,
what you like to do? You know, we want to
know about who Larry was as a human before Larry
was a victim. Oh, he was fucking crazy. Sorry, in
a good way, right, He was very, very crazy. We
both were, but that's kind of just what made us us.
(12:34):
We both came from broken homes and that built our friendship.
And we were both dealing with so much, but we
were able to confide in somebody who understood. So we
learned to grow together more and more and more. The
more that things happened. We were trouble. We were not like, oh,
(12:57):
there's those good little kids. No, it was like, oh lord,
what are they getting into? Now? They're being quiet, so
we know they're up to something. Yeah, we was those kids.
We were the kids that, like you had to place
them on one side of the room to keep them
apart from each other. We were trouble. I'm gonna flip
(13:20):
the switch a little bit, and I'm going to ask
you a question about Brandon. You know Brandon McInerney. Did
you Did you know him personally? I ain't heard that
night even so long. Oh well, we knew each other
out of school. My mom helped his mom when his
(13:43):
mom was going through her addiction and getting away from
her abusive relationship with his father. Wow. So my mom
was kind of like a sponsor for her and would
help kind of get her on the right track. So
he actually went to like he was visiting his mom,
(14:04):
and I was. I was very active in what my
mom did. She kind of forced us into it. So
I knew a lot of the people that were going
through the addiction struggles and the yeah, the women and
children centered things like that. I was very well known
among them. And so we first met when he was
visiting his mama at one of the shelter things or
(14:27):
I forget what exactly it was, but we met there.
And I don't know if he remembers that or not.
He was not happy to be there, which I don't
blame him. Who would. Yeah, he was dealing with his
own stuff and that bulled over into helping him grow
into the person that he became. Sure, did you too
(14:51):
speak at that time? No, no, I had a tendency
to be paraded around to make my family look good,
and he was just dealing with his mama. But me
and him, slowly but surely, I met him when I
switched over to EO. Green in seventh grade. So when
(15:13):
I switched to that school, me and him met and
became kind of friends. And we had a pretty good
friendship going as far as I knew until eighth grade.
Then it started getting rocky. You know, we're all going
through who we are and what we are, and in
(15:34):
the middle of all this, we're all most of us
dealing with things at home too. Sure, so all of
those combined create a very toxic environment in the school
because you've got all these kids who are already going
through hormonal things, through growth spurred through emotional issues, through
(15:55):
family issues, and just trying to get through junior high.
Like it, it's a lot. It's a lot for anybody,
And unfortunately, he paired up with some other kids that
were just as toxic and became one of the problem
groups in the school because of their way of coping
(16:20):
with what we were all dealing with I see, so
that was happening even before he was bullying Larry. It's
hard to say before bullying Larry, because Larry has been
bullied every day of his life. There was never a
time in our childhood where I was not around that
(16:40):
he was not being bullied. And in the beginning of
seventh grade he was having a really hard time because
we had went to separate schools and he ended up
in EO. Green. I ended up in Blackstock, which is
another junior high not that far sure, and he had
to deal all by himself. Yeah, when we were separate,
(17:04):
I was sad and he was hurt. I'm thankful that
he had you with him despite all that toxic, horrific
energy around him. Don't let it for you. We had
our fights. We fought like siblings. Here is your brother,
you said, yeah. Yeah. It was one of those things
where you keep fighting each other and then they do
(17:27):
this no contact contract, right, so you've got to go
like fourteen days without touching, talking, nothing, and we'd last
like my baby twenty four hours and then be back
to normal. And finally the school pulled in our parents
and was like, we can't get them to stop talking.
(17:49):
We keep doing the no contact, and finally his guardians
and my mother was like, at this point, just stop trying.
They're gonna work it out on their own. Like they're
gonna fight, but they're gonna work it out. Just let
them deal with it. So they stopped trying to do
that with us. The fact that you came back to
(18:10):
the school, I'm sure it allowed him to have a
little bit more freedom. He knew his tiger was somewhere nearby.
Oh yeah, and whenever there was issues, he knew where
to go. Like it wasn't one of those. He's dealing
with issues. He can't confine me. We would find each
other regardless. So I'm gonna push you to be you
(18:33):
because I don't like fake shit, So you just don't
have to be you, and just don't worry about other people.
I don't care about other people. I'm gonna be me regardless,
so I expect that from the people around me. I
do occasionally regret pushing him to be himself so much,
(18:56):
because in the end, no matter who pulled the trigger,
no matter what the reason may be that led up
to that, and it's a part of that lineup of
how did this happen. So there are quite a few
times that I regret not telling him to just just
chill out a little bit, knowing where we lived. But
(19:20):
I think even if he did that and lived through everything,
he wouldn't really have lived through everything. He would have
had a half life. That's not fair to him. So
you can't really ask out of somebody. You should live
your life to the fullest, one hundred percent. Don't water
(19:40):
it down. Don't be somebody's cup of tea, be somebody's
shot of whiskey. And if they can't swallow you, let
him choke. Well I'll tigree with everything that you know
(20:09):
you've been so open with us about. If please, if
you don't feel comfortable talking about this, please don't feel
like you have to. You know, we do not sensationalize,
nor do we want to sensationalize what happened, and we
never want to do that on facing evil. But from
your perspective, what was it like the day that Larry
(20:34):
was shot? So the day that he got shot, I
was late to school. I had been dealing with some
stuff at home and I just I was late, and
I got there to the front area right as he
(20:54):
got there. Because he was late as well, okay, And
the first thing that I noticed was he always wore
this collar shirt, a gray sweatshirt on top of that
with his little collar sticking app and these baggy two
size two big like dark blue uniform pants that were
(21:17):
just baggy and horrible, and these torn up tennis shoes
that just did not do him justice. And that was
what he wore every day, every day. So there was
never anything that you'd be like, okay, that's different. Until
the few months leading up to the shooting, he had
(21:37):
went to oh lord, I can't remember the facility Cosa PACIFICA. Yes,
so he'd been moved into the facility right before all
this happened. He was given his choice of clothing, so
he was able to pick out girls clothes, girls pants,
and was changing his style up and figuring himself out.
(22:00):
So at that point you didn't really know what he
was going to come to school wearing. There was a
day he came to school in boots and you were like,
I know, your feet hurt, boots, And let me tell you,
he walked them things through that school and I was like,
my back hurt just thinking about it. But he did,
(22:24):
and he just wanted to figure himself out. He wanted
to be him, and that day he was wearing the
usual outfit that he would wear, the little sweater and
all that numb It just seemed weird, and he was
running off into his class. I got moved to the
(22:47):
special education class, the gift in Talented, and I was
in that class with Brandon, and then they moved Brandon
into that class into the computer class. Yeah, that's how
I ended up in that classroom at the same time.
I see. They were right across from each other, so
(23:08):
we were going in the same direction and I called
out to him, and instead of the usual turnaround saying
something smart ass and getting along with our day, he
turned around really scared and then just kind of went
running off to his class. And I was like, that
was weird. Yeah, like it doesn't make sense, but okay,
(23:29):
you do you and didn't really think much of it.
And his class ended up going to the computer room,
which is right down the hall from where we were,
and we heard the first shot, and I remember everybody
talking about like, who's slamming doors? Didn't even sound like
(23:51):
a gunshot? Well, most kids run there weren't used to guns.
I grew up around guns, So did you know you knew? Yeah, automatically,
I was like, suns wrong. A couple of minutes passed,
and then a second one they assumed somebody was slamming
a door, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And
then the secretary from the front was on the speaker like, oh,
(24:18):
we're on lockdown. Everybody get down, everybody lock your doors.
And I made a stupid joke about, oh, somebody got shot.
Oh shit, yeah, and didn't think twice of it, me
being the class clown. And we all locked down. We're
(24:42):
all sitting on the floor talking and stuff, and we're
just assuming somebody acted a fool. And I'm like, I'm
still thinking, like that didn't sound right, but maybe, you know,
maybe I'm just crazy. And then Melissa, one of the
girls that I was friends with, and she got a
(25:05):
text from somebody else in Larry's class that said Brandon
shawt Larry, and she yelled it out to the class
and it all kind of went hazy at that point.
Of course. Yeah, I was told by the teacher at
(25:26):
that time that I fell down and then started screaming
I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew. You don't
even remember that. I don't remember nothing until a little
bit later on he blacked it out. I don't I
don't blame you. I was sitting there screaming I knew,
and she didn't really understand what was going on, and
(25:49):
she said she'd tried to get it out of me,
tried to figure out what I was talking about, and
I eventually told her I knew he was going to
shoot him, And so she got ahold of one of
the police officers that was outside, and they were like, yeah,
we'll get her in a second and pull her aside
(26:10):
and talk to her. And somebody was at the window.
We had pretty high windows, and they said they saw
him getting wheeled out, and that's kind of when I
start to come to not a whole lot, but I
remember thinking, like in a wheelchair, it just wasn't computing right.
(26:35):
So they were like, yeah, they're wheeling him out. I'm like,
you know, he can walk, he can walk in heels.
That boy could walk right out those school. Just not
not understanding your heart was probably protecting you from the trauma,
of course. Yeah, oh yeah. I was completely shut down,
completely shut down, and then all up a little bit
(26:58):
hazy again. And then I remember being in front of
an officer in the cafeteria. All the tables were out,
and ever so often you'd see a detective or an
officer and a student, and I remember talking to him
(27:19):
about what had happened. He's like, you you told your
teacher you knew, And I'm like, I did. I knew
the day before. I don't think I told y'all that.
So the day before the shooting, at lunch, Larry was
kind of being a fool doing whatever, and I was like,
I'm gonna go do my own thing. And from what
(27:40):
I've heard from other people, he was hanging out with
another group of girls that I don't really associate with.
They weren't my cup of tea, so they were hanging
out with him, and I guess they were all asking
people to be their Valentines and things like that, and
they convinced him to ask Brandon to be his valid
time and he asked him in front of all the
(28:03):
boys they were all playing basketball, and they started teasing
him about it. He got pissed and I'm not around.
I don't know any of that. So that is all
that's what I heard. Yeah, that is all here safe, right,
But as the bell rang. We're all headed to our
classes after lunch, and mine was art, so I'm headed there,
(28:28):
and Brandon came up to me and told me to
say goodbye to Larry because I wasn't going to see
him again, and me, not thinking about it, was like,
you're a dumb piece of shit. And we exchanged a
few words, and I told him what I thought about him,
(28:48):
and that was that that's the day before, right the
day before, Yes, And then after school I ended up
having attention and I end up going out, and Larry
was still there waiting for his ride because he was
at the facility still. So they came to pick him
(29:08):
up from school, and he looked real like battered up.
His hair was all a mess, his shirt was all
ripped up. He'd been in a scuffle, and so I
asked him automatically what the heck happened, and he didn't
(29:29):
want to tell me, and I just kept on and
kept on and kept on, and I'm like, I'm not
gonna let you get in the car until you tell
me what's going on. And finally he told me it
was some of the boys, but he wouldn't name any names.
YadA YadA, and again from hearing it from other people.
Supposedly it was the group of boys including Brandon, the
(29:50):
basketball boys. Yes, it was the group of boys around
the courts when he did the Valentine Game or whatever
they called it. But he would and tell me because
he knows, yeah, I'm a mess. So he didn't want
me to get in the middle of it, and so
I was like okay. Still didn't put two and two together,
(30:12):
but I'm like okay. And then fast forward to after
the incident. I don't really remember much of talking to
the officer. I remember explaining what had happened. I remember
being in front of him, but I don't remember actually
talking to him. And then the moment that I really
(30:35):
came to I think it was Jackie. I can't remember
the night, but she was one of the people that
were sitting right next to him, and I was leaving
the cafeteria as she was coming into the cafeteria and
she had blood on her and that's really the moment
(30:58):
where I was like, I'm back, something's really wrong here.
They eventually let us go home, and everybody was trying
to figure out what was going on, and I was
trying to figure out how to get to the hospital
and they were just like, he's dealing with a lot.
They're going to be doing a lot. Just give them
some time. And I'm like, okay, like I don't want to,
(31:21):
but they're like, you don't need to be there right now,
not right now with why he is, You're gonna lose it.
Just give them some time. And so I was still
under the impression that he was very much alive and
going to make it. Yeah, it was going through surgery,
dealing with his health. Obviously he's not gonna die, right,
(31:44):
He's just dealing with some health issues. And the next
day we all went back to school. The school didn't
shut down like what they did. Their answer to everything
was we're going to put some crisis counselors in the
library if you need them, and there was three counselors
(32:09):
available for a whole school. Wow. I decided. I was like,
he's gonna be fine. I'll see him after school. He'll
be fine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna
make this huge ass card for him. I went to
one of my teachers, I can't remember which one, and
I was like, I need some card stock. So broke
(32:31):
into the drawer because she didn't want to give it
to me, and got some big old card stock paper
and I made this huge, almost like a booklet card
and I wrote a message, and then somebody else was like,
oh well, let me mount a message, and then little
(32:51):
by little, everybody started writing message. So I kept having
an add paper and add paper and add paper, and
pretty soon I couldn't break into the desk no more.
So I ended up with this little booklet of just
people writing notes saying they were sorry, and a lot
of a lot of the messages are people saying they're
(33:12):
sorry for making fun of him so much and bullying
him and beating him up. And instead of it being hey,
get better, because the front of it says get well soon,
that was my mindset. Instead it became a confessional and
everybody saying their confession and signing their name. And I
(33:35):
still have that tiger, you know, I I'm so sorry,
(33:59):
Like my heart breaks for you and for all of
you guys, all of the kids that had to go
through that, Like you shouldn't have been the one to
go get the paper. Your teachers, you know, should have
made that something that you all did together. And to
just have like three counselors they should have. That's just
(34:21):
as devastating to me, and I'm just I'm sorry in
so many ways possible that you you had to go
through this without you know, a support system, especially especially
at that age. They are raising tough kids. Yeah, so
if they didn't need therapy and all this stuff growing up,
(34:44):
why would these kids need therapy and stuff growing up?
It's generations of lack of care and we were just
one of the generations at different time, a different era.
I get that, you know, but it's still it's like,
my heart just breaks for you guys. You know. I
know you're a tough woman and you've you've moved through this,
(35:05):
and you know I've created your own life and forged through.
But still I wish that the teachers would have done
something for Larry, Like, did they do anything for Larry?
Did they they saw in the card? Not all of them.
In fact, we had one teacher who said he shouldn't
have been living his life the way he was living
(35:27):
in it and it wouldn't have happened. I think I
saw that on the documentary that you were all featured
in Valentine Road. Yeah, yeah, she very proudly stated that,
and me and her headbutted heads a few times. She
was very hardcore in her beliefs. But you don't say
that to kids that are still struggling now. So you're
(35:51):
saying till this day, there's still no monument to Larry
at this school. There's no tree, there's no bench. There
is there something. There's a tree without Larry's name, right.
They made it very clear it was gonna be for Larry.
We fought for that tree. We had to jump through
hoops to get that tree. And at the end of
(36:13):
the day they planted the tree and would not mention
his name. Well, we will keep mentioning his name, Tiger absolutely.
I mean if you ask kids nowadays, they won't know,
they won't know what that's tree for. They wouldn't even
recognize it because it ain't put up somewhere special. There's
nothing really beautiful around it. There's nothing. And the whole
(36:36):
point about it was it was supposed to be this
beautiful tree to show the growth that he didn't get
to do, and to have these flowers around it, to
pull in butterflies because those were his favorite. Trea like,
there was so much planned and at the end of
the day, why would you say his name, we will,
(36:57):
And that's why it's so important that you know around
the show today to tell this story, because this is
a powerful story that everybody needs to hear. It's a
story that a lot of people have forgotten. That's so true.
And that's the beauty of storytelling, right, beautiful part of
podcasting and television, movies and all these things. We can
(37:20):
still tell these stories. And I know, to you, Larry
is not just a story. Oh no, not at all,
not at all. And I'd love to know, because you're
a strong, amazing human being, how has Larry affected your life?
And how did you move onward and upward through everything
(37:41):
you had to go through through this horrific trauma. I
didn't for a long time, and just like everybody else,
we didn't deal with it. We didn't have appropriate support
to deal with it. So you learn not to deal
with it. It's the story of that name, like that
whole area. That's just how we deal with things. We don't.
(38:05):
We just sweep it onto the rug and keep moving.
And then I'd say probably when I was an adult,
probably about eighteen nineteen, that's when I really started figuring
my emotions out and healing from my own trauma from
(38:26):
my own family and my own past, and didn't realize
how much that still affected me until that topic was
brought up in therapy and I was like, no, let's
not dig into that. So it took a lot of therapy,
a lot, and therapy is amazing. Yes, yes, yes, therapy
(38:51):
and a lot of medication, and it finally got me
to the point where I could come to terms. You're
never gonna be okay with it, but you can come
to terms to the point that you're okay with life now.
And are you okay with life now? Tiger? Oh? Yeah, No,
(39:14):
I have a beautiful life. My son has his initials
his Lawrence vos L, and my son is named Lyndon
Frasier L. So that was one of the ways that
I wanted to represent him. And then my daughter we
(39:36):
have wind chimes with butterflies for him. We talk about
him regularly. He's an active part of her family history
and it's it's part of why I live so goal focused. Now. Yes,
(39:56):
I have a very very productive life. I have beautiful
things to show for it. I have a beautiful family,
beautiful businesses. I have a beautiful life, Tiger. If you
want to share, maybe how you want people to remember Larry,
or how you remember Larry. It's not so much about
(40:17):
remembering him, and I don't think he would want it
to be about remembering him. Well, depending on the day,
he's kind of cocky. But it's not about him. This
story isn't singular. There's entirely too many people dealing with
similar situations and having similar stories. And I don't think
(40:41):
that his death is just about him, and I don't
feel that his story should be about just him. I
think that his story is one stitch in a blanket
of so many similar people who are dealing with the
(41:02):
same pain and the same confusion and the same growth
that he was dealing with. And if we single out
one person, then you don't get to see the whole blanket.
You can't look at one string and go, man, that's
a gorgeous pattern, because it's not. It's one string. But
(41:23):
when you step back and you look at everybody that's
dealing with similar situations, it's not just a story. It's reality.
And his story is the reality for entirely too many
people up to this day. And I think it shouldn't
be about what happened to him and how it ended
(41:45):
it should be about you know, the eighth graders that
are here right now, yes, who are going through this
right now. Absolutely, his story is not about him dying.
His story is about that eighth grader today who's going
to be able to live their life to the fullest
because somebody somewhere remembered that story that they heard about
(42:11):
that little boy getting shot, and they took his story
serious and looked out for him and made sure that
that little boy got to grow up and make his
choices for his life and have his future. Larry's story
isn't his. We're all a part of it, but at
the end of the day, his story is for the
(42:33):
little kids now who need a future that is safe.
So I don't think that anyone should just focus on him,
although I'm sure he'd love it, but I'm just saying
I am sure he'd be all about it. But at
the end of the day, it's not his story. This
(42:57):
is humanity story and how we choose to move forward
with it and if we want this to continue or not. Yes, agreed.
I don't even have words because you have just said
so many powerful things on this episode that we can
(43:21):
all reach deep in our souls and take a look
at you know, and have these important conversations. And that's
why you know we have you here on facing evil
to share your story, to share, like you said, our story,
it's our collective story, it's our quilt right that we
(43:45):
will continue to stitch, stitch by stitch, just like you said, Tiger,
Thank you again, thank you for sharing all of our stories.
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to people
like Larry King. Larry was flamboyant, Larry was unapologetic, and
(44:11):
Larry was utterly himself. He had the strength to be
himself even when it wasn't comfortable. That kind of strength
can really inspire people around you, even people you don't
realize you're inspiring. In the documentary Valentine Road, a friend
of Larry, said that he inspired her to feel comfortable
(44:32):
enough to dress as she liked and eventually to come
out as gay. Bold behavior inspires others to be bold
and to speak their own truth. It's all a part
of building a world that's more open, healthier, and ultimately
happier and safer for everyone. And that is a truly
(44:53):
beautiful thing. So to Larry and others like him, onward
and upward. Emua, emua. Well, that's our show for today.
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
(45:15):
Find us on social media or email us at Facing
Evil pot at Tenderfoot dot tv. And one small request
if you haven't already, please find us on iTunes and
give us a good rating and a good review. If
you like what we do, your support is always cherished.
Until next time, ah Loja. Facing Evil is a production
(45:52):
of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. The show is hosted by
Russia Peccarero and a Vetchantile. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams
our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor
Young and Jesse Funk, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay our
executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan.
(46:14):
Our researcher is Carolyn Talmidge. Original music by Makeup and
Vanity Set. Find us on social media or email us
at Facing Evil pot at Tenderfoot dot tv. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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