March 30, 2023 • 46 mins
In one of the most shocking stories of 2008, 15-year-old Larry King was killed in a middle school classroom by a fellow student in Oxnard, CA. Larry was openly gay, and was constantly bullied for his sexual orientation. So how did bullying lead to murder? We talk about Larry's life with one of his best friends from school named Tiger.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Paccerreiro.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Evett Genteely and this week we're talking about
the murder of Larry King, or sometimes known as Letitia
King as well. This is a murder that took place
in broad daylight, in a classroom full of children.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yes, that's right. This murder took place in two thousand
and eight, and it is arguably one of the most
prominent anti LGBTQ murders since the murder of Matthew Shepherd
ten years. Ellen DeGeneres and Hillary Clinton even sent their
condolences at the time, and across the country there were
(01:07):
vigils and marches all in Larry's name.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, and like I said, it happened in a junior
high on a school day, and this brings up all
kind of questions about how this was able to escalate
to the point of murder in a classroom. Today, we're
going to be talking with a friend of Larry's, and
that is Tiger. She has courageously agreed to speak with us,
(01:34):
and so I'm very grateful to have her on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, so grateful. But now our producer Trevor is going
to take us through today's case.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You know, at first it looked like a simple hate crime,
but as students and teachers testified at the trial last week,
a much more complicated picture has begun to emerge.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
He's remembered as friendly and outgoing, but fellow students say
he became the subject of taunts and bullying in school
at after speaking out about his sexual orientation and reportedly
wearing makeup, lipstick, and jewelry to school.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's inconceivable that anybody could be that angry at a
kid that was that nice.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Larry King, who also went by Letitia, was a fifteen
year old who was killed by a classmate in two
thousand and eight in Oxnard, California. Larry was openly gay
and often presented very effeminate. They came out when they
were ten years old. As early as then Larry was
frequently bullied for their sexual identity. In seventh grade, Larry
(02:35):
transferred to EO. Green Junior High School, and there Larry
found a tight knit group of girls to be friends with,
and by all accounts, expressed their identity proudly, wearing dresses,
high heels, and makeup. One friend even said that quote
he wore makeup better than I did. End quote. But
the boys at this new school bullied Larry ruthlessly. Larry
(02:58):
responded defiantly, reportedly talking back to their taunts by saying
things like quote, I know you want me. One of
Larry's most frequent antagonizers was a fourteen year old boy
named Brandon McInerney. Larry told some friends that something romantic
had happened between them, but the mood between them during
most school days was hostile. One day, Larry walked down
(03:22):
the hall and said to Brandon, quote, love you baby.
Brandon became incensed and told one of Larry's friends that
they would never see Larry alive again. On the morning
of February fourteenth, Larry came to school dressed unusually. They'd
left their feminine clothes at home in favor of baggy
(03:42):
pants and sneakers. They were acting strangely, too nervous, it seemed,
Teachers say Larry kept looking over their shoulder. Later that morning,
Larry sat down in the school computer lab and wrote
their name on a piece of paper. They wrote it
as Letitia King. It was one of the last things
Larry would ever write. Later that school period, Brandon McInerney
(04:06):
drew a twenty two caliber revolver and shot Larry twice
in the back of the head. Larry King died in
the hospital just two days later. Brandon was apprehended, but
public opinion both the trial and press coverage that followed
was split. The defense claimed that Larry had made themselves
a target with over the top gay behavior at school.
(04:29):
Others called this a gay panic defense, and LGBTQ activists
rallied behind Larry. In twenty eleven, Brandon McInerney was sentenced
to twenty one years in prison for second degree murder,
voluntary manslaughter, and the use of a firearm. And so,
who was Larry or Letitia King? And how does this
(04:50):
story reflect the very real dangers that queer teenagers face
in schools across America.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Today? We have the honor of speaking with someone who
knew Larry King. Joining us now is Tiger, who was
a close friend and a classmate of Larry's. Tiger, Welcome
to Facing Evil.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Thank you for having me. It's been a while since
I've talked to anybody about it, has it.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, But we're really happy that you're here with us today,
and I'm just gonna jump right into the story. You know,
this is such an important emotional story, you know, especially
for you. Can you start by just telling us how
you first met Larry and what your relationship was.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
So we met in third grade and I had been
nude to the school.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
We had just moved.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
From one side of town to the other and didn't
really have a lot of friends. I was just this
little weird kid and I was larger than everybody. I
was like a foot taller than everybody, little chunky kid
with a crazy fluffy cheetah jacket, and I thought I
was the coolest until I went to that school when
(06:12):
I was not, and I just was like, Okay, this
is my life now, and just happened to meet him.
He was in the same class, and everybody else was
making fun of my jacket, and he was like, can.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
I wear that?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And he wore my jacket for the day, and that's
how we became friends.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I do have a quick question for you, Tiger. I
always want to be respectful, And there of course has
been you know, different reports, different things said about Larry
as far as Larry's gender identity. As Larry's best friend
from third grade, can you just give us a little
(06:56):
tidbit about that.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
He was still in the process of figuring himself out,
and we all were at that age, of course, so
he was still going through who is he? What is
he going to be? Who is he going to be?
And during the time when he passed, he was still Larry.
He was still he. He was figuring himself out, and
(07:22):
he did go by Latitia sometimes, he did want to
be called her sometimes, but at the end of the day,
he was still he, and he was still Larry. So
I don't feel that it's up to us or anybody
that's doing a story about him to make that judgment,
because he wasn't given that chance to make that judgment
(07:44):
for himself. He didn't get to live long enough to
figure it out. So out of respect for him, he
should still be called Larry, and he should still be
he him, because that's who he was.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
When he left, beautifully said thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I completely agree
with you. You know, you said, you guys, you know,
basically you grew up together, right starting at third grade?
Did you know about what Larry was going through at home?
Did he ever talk to you about what was going on?
Back then?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
We were very very close, and our families knew each other,
and there was nothing really off limits. So we were
both very open with each other about the abuse that
we were going through as kids. And so I knew
a lot about his past. I knew a lot about
you know, as much as he knew at the time.
And then as he learned more, he would tell me more,
(08:44):
and as things would happen, he would tell me what happened.
So I was pretty in tune with what was going
on in his personal life and where he had come from.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I was thinking about this too, because I grew up
in Hawaii, where it was, you know, a melt pot,
a little bit of everything, and me myself being biracial,
it was a great place to grow up. But you
guys grew up in Oxnard, California. Did you find that
there was diversity there or did you not, like, can
you tell me a little bit of what it was
(09:15):
like growing up in Oxnard, California being biracial.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
So in Oxnard, there's a lot of cultural diversity as adults.
As children, it's much more judgmental. So there might be
a large group of mixed children, but you can never
really find your people because you're mixed children. You're too
(09:40):
white for black folks, you're too black for white folks.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
It's one of the other.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
You can't really find yourself and your people, and mixed
kids tend to just stay by themselves instead of grouping
together and becoming that, well, we're the mixed group. It
doesn't really work like that because, especially as a mixed
kid who sees that you don't want to become another
(10:08):
closed door for somebody else. So you just learned to
create your own and stick to yourself instead of building
another group of people to shun somebody else out. You
find your people here and there, and a lot of
the times you don't fit in with anybody, or you
fit in with everybody, and you have to rely on
(10:30):
yourself more than anybody else, and it raises tough kids.
But those tough kids become tough adults, and that has
built a really tough community, and tough isn't always good.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I'm so sorry that you went through that, Tiger, and
I'm also sorry how you mentioned that you went through
abuse like Larry did as well.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Oh, don't be sorry, don't be world.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
It's all passed. And it's sad to say, but most
of the people who grew up where we grew up,
that's not an uncommon thing, really very normal. So to
hear kids that are having good childhoods is more of
a surprise than not sure. At the end of the day,
(11:18):
we can't change how we grew up, but I'm not
gonna continue that path for my daughter. I can't continue
that path. So I'm not sorry for anything that I
went through. I'm not regretting anything that I went through, because,
like I said before, it raises tough adults. But I
(11:38):
chose my toughness to go through, loving people and keep
caring for people and doing things. I wouldn't have been
the way I am if I hadn't had the childhood
that I had. So it has its negatives, but everything
has negatives and positives. You just gotta choose which one
you're gonna look at.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I love everything that you shared with us, Tiger, every
single word, and I feel like I can only step
back in time or imagine what it was like for
you and Larry to be friends going through life. Can
you share a little bit about what you bonded over,
what you liked to do? You know, we want to
know about who Larry was as a human before Larry
(12:20):
was a victim.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Oh, he was fucking crisy.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Sorry in a good way.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Right. He was very, very crazy.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
We both were, but that's kind of just what made
us us. We both came from broken homes and that
built our friendship. And we were both dealing with so much,
but we were able to confide in somebody who understood. Yeah,
so we learned to grow together more and more and
(12:51):
more the more that things happened.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
We were trouble. We were not.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Like, oh, there's those good little kids. No, it was like,
oh lord, what are they getting into?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
They're being quiet, so we know they're up to something. Yeah.
We was those kids. We were the kids that, like
you had to place them on one side of the
room to keep them apart from each other. We were trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm gonna flip the switch a little bit and I'm
going to ask you a question about Brandon. You know
Brandon McInerney. Did you did you know him personally?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
I ain't heard that name and so long. Oh, so
we knew each other out of school. My mom helped
his mom when his mom was going through her addiction
and getting away from her abusive relationship with his father.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
So my mom was kind of like a sponsor for
her and would help kind of get her on the
right track. So he actually went to like he was
visiting his mom, and I was very active in what
my mom did.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
She kind of forced us into it.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
So I knew a lot of the people that were
going through the addiction struggles and the yeah, the women
and Children's Center and things like that. I was very
well known among them. And so we first met when
he was visiting his mama at one of the shelter
things or I forget what exactly it was, but we
(14:31):
met there, and I don't know if he remembers that
or not. He was not happy to be there, which
I don't blame him.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Who would be YEA.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, he was dealing with his own stuff and that
bowled over into helping him grow into the person that
he became.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Did you two speak at that time?
Speaker 5 (14:53):
No, No, I had a tendency to be paraded around
to make my family look good and and he was
just dealing with his mama. But me and him, slowly
but surely, I met him when I switched over to EO.
Green in seventh grade. So when I switched to that school,
(15:15):
me and him met and became kind of friends. And
we had a pretty good friendship going as far as
I knew until eighth grade. Then it started getting rocky.
You know, we're all going through who we are and
what we are, and in the middle of all this,
(15:35):
we're all most of us dealing with things at home too.
So all of those combined create a very toxic environment
in the school because you've got all these kids who
are already going through hormonal things, through growth spurds, through
emotional issues, through family issues, and just trying to get
(15:58):
through junior high. Like it's a lot. It's a lot
for anybody. And unfortunately, he paired up with some other
kids that were just as toxic and became one of
the problem groups in the school because of their way
(16:19):
of coping with what we were all dealing.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
With I see, So that was happening even before he
was bullying Larry.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
It's hard to say before bullying Larry, because Larry has
been bullied every day of his life. There was never
a time in our childhood where I was not around
that he was not being bullied. And in the beginning
of seventh grade he was having a really hard time
because we had went to separate schools and he ended
(16:51):
up in EO. Green. I ended up in Blackstock, which
is another junior high not that far sure, and he
had to deal all by himself. Yeah, when we were separate,
I was sad and he was hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'm thankful that he had you with him despite all
that toxic, horrific energy around him.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Don't want it fool you. We had our fights. We
fought like siblings.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Here is your brother, you said, yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Yeah. It was one of those things where you keep
fighting each other and then they do this no contact contract, right,
so you've got to go like fourteen days without touching, talking, nothing,
and we'd last like maybe twenty four hours and then
be back to normal. And finally the school pulled in
(17:44):
our parents and was like, we can't get them to
stop talking, we keep doing there's no contact, and finally
his guardians and my mother was like, at this point,
just stop trying. They're gonna work it on their own life.
They're gonna fight, but they're gonna work it out. Just
let them deal with it. So they stopped trying to
(18:06):
do that with us.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
The fact that you came back to the school, I'm
sure it allowed him to have a little bit more freedom.
He knew his tiger was somewhere nearby.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Oh yeah, and whenever there was issues, he knew where
to go. Like it wasn't one of those. He's dealing
with issues. He can't confine me. We would find each
other in regardless. So I'm gonna push you to be
you because I don't like fake shit, So you just
don't have to be you, and just don't worry about
other people. I don't care about other people. I'm gonna
(18:42):
be me regardless, so I expect that from the people
around me. M hm. I do occasionally regret pushing him
to be himself so much, because in the end, no
matter who pulled the trigger, no matter what the reason
(19:03):
may be that led up to that, and it's a
part of that lineup of how did this happen.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
So there are quite a.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Few times that I regret not telling him to just
just chill out a little bit, knowing where we lived.
But I think even if he did that and lived
through everything, he wouldn't really have lived through everything. He
would have had a half life. That's not fair to him.
(19:32):
So you can't really ask out of somebody. You should
live your life to the fullest, one hundred percent. Don't
water it down. Don't be somebody's cup of tea. Be
somebody shot a whiskey. And if they can't swallow you,
let him choke.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well we'll tiger with everything that you know you've been
so open with us about. If please, if you don't
feel comfortable talking about this, please don't feel like you
have to. You know, we do not sensationalize, nor do
we want to sensationalize what happened, and we never want
to do that on facing evil.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
But from your.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Perspective, what was it like the day that Larry was shot?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
So the day that he got shot, I was late
to school that I had been dealing with some stuff
at home and I just I was late and I
got there to the front area right as.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
He got there.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Because he was late as well, okay. And the first
thing that I noticed was he always wore this collar shirt,
a gray sweatshirt on top of that with his little
collar sticking at and these baggy two size too big,
like dark blue uniform pants that were just bagging horrible,
(21:19):
and these torn up tennis shoes that just did not
do him justice. And that was what he wore every day,
every day. So there was never anything that you'd be like.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Okay, that's different.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Until the few months leading up to the shooting.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
He had went to oh lord, I can't remember the.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Facility Cosa PACIFICA.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Yes, so he'd been moved into the facility right before
all this happened. He was given his choice of clothing,
so he was able to pick out girls clothes, girls pants,
and was changing his style up and figuring himself out out.
So at that point you didn't really know what he
(22:03):
was going to come to school wearing. There was day
he came to school in boots and you were like,
I know, your feet.
Speaker 7 (22:08):
Hurt, and let me tell you, he walked them things
through that school and I was like, my back hurt
just thinking about it.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Do that, But he did, and he just wanted to
figure himself out. He wanted to be him, and that
day he was wearing the usual outfit that he would wear,
the little sweater and all that. It just seemed weird,
and he was running off into his class. I got
(22:45):
moved to the special education class, the Gift and Talented,
and I was in that class with Brandon, and then
they moved Brandon into.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That class into the computer class.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yeah, that's how they ended up in that classroom at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I see.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
They were right across from each other, so we were
going in the same direction and I called out to him,
and instead of the usual turnaround saying something smart ass
and getting along with our day, he turned around really
scared and then just kind of went running off to
his class.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
And I was like, that's way weird.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah, like it doesn't make sense, but okay, you do
you and didn't really think much of it. And his
class ended up going to the computer room, which is
right down the hall from where we were, and we
heard the first shot, and I remember everybody talking about like,
(23:48):
who's slamming doors?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Didn't even sound like a gun shot?
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Well, most kids around there weren't used to guns. I
grew up around guns.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
So did you know you knew?
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Yeah, automatically, I was like, irong a couple of minutes past,
and then a second one, they assumed somebody was slamming
a door, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And
then the secretary from the front was on the speaker like, oh,
(24:18):
we're on lockdown. Everybody get down, everybody lock your doors.
And I made a stupid joke about, oh, somebody got shot.
Oh shit, yeah, and didn't think twice of it, me
being the class clown. And we all locked down. We're
(24:42):
all sitting on the floor talking and stuff, and we're
just assuming somebody acted a fool. And I'm like, I'm
still thinking, like that didn't sound right, but maybe, you know,
maybe I'm just crazy. And then Melissa, one of the
girls that I was friends with, and she got a
(25:05):
text from somebody else in Larry's class that said Brandon
shawt Larry, and she yelled it out to the class
and it all kind of went hazy.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
At that point.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Of course, I was told by the teacher at that
time that I fell down and then started screaming I knew,
I knew, I.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Knew, I knew.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You don't even remember that I.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Don't remember nothing until a little.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Bit later on.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You blacked it out.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I don't I don't blame you.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
I was sitting there screaming I knew, and she didn't
really understand what was going on, and she said she
tried to get it out of me, tried to figure
out what I was talking about, and I eventually told
her I knew he was going to shoot him, and
so she got a hold of one of the police
officers that was outside, and they were like, yeah, we'll
(26:06):
get her in a second.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
And pull her aside and talk to her.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
And somebody was at the window. We had pretty high windows,
and they said they saw him getting wheeled out, and
that's kind of when I start to come to not
a whole lot, but I remember thinking, like in a wheelchair,
it just wasn't computing. So they were like, yeah, they're
(26:36):
wheeling them out.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I'm like, you know, he can walk, he can walk
in heels.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
That boy could walk right out of school. Just not
not understanding.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Your heart was probably protecting you from the trauma, of course.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
I was completely shut down, completely shut down, and then
all up a little bit hazy again. And then I
remember being in front of an officer. In the cafeteria,
all the tables were out, and ever so often you'd
(27:14):
see a detective or an officer and a student, and
I remember talking to him about what had happened. He's like,
you told your teacher you knew, and I'm like, I did.
I knew the day before. I don't think I told
y'all that. So the day before the shooting, at lunch,
Larry was kind of being a fool doing whatever, and
(27:35):
I was like, I'm gonna go do my own thing.
And from what I've heard from other people, he was
hanging out with another group of girls that I don't
really associate with. They weren't my cup of tea, so
they were hanging out with him, and I guess they
were all asking people to be their Valentines and things
like that, and they convinced him to ask Brandon to
(27:59):
be his valie time and he asked him in front
of all the boys they were all playing basketball, and
they started teasing him about it. He got pissed and
I'm not around.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
I don't know any of that. So that is all
that's what I heard. Yeah, that is all hears say.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
But as the bell rang were all headed to our
classes after lunch, and mine was art, so I'm headed
there and Brandon came up to me and told me
to say goodbye to Larry because I wasn't gonna see
him again, and me, not thinking about it, was like,
(28:41):
you're a dumb piece of shit. And we exchanged a
few words, and I told him what I thought about him,
and that was that.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
That's the day before, right the day before?
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Correct, Yes, And then after school I ended up having
attention and I ended up going out and Larry was
still there waiting for his ride because he was at
the facility still, so they came to pick him up
from school, gotcha, and he.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
Looked real like battered up.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
His hair was all a mess, his shirt was all
ripped up.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
He'd been in a scuffle.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
And so I asked him automatically what the heck happened,
and he didn't want to tell me, and I just
kept on and kept on and kept on, and I'm like,
I'm not gonna let you get in the car until
you tell me what's going on. And finally he told
me it was some of the boys, but he wouldn't
name any names. YadA YadA, And again from hearing it
(29:44):
from other people. Supposedly it was the group of boys
including Brandon.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
The basketball boys.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yes, it was the group of boys around the courts
when he did the Valentine Game or whatever they called it.
But he would and tell me because he knows, yeah,
I'm a mess. So he didn't want me to get
in the middle of it, and so I was like okay.
Still didn't put two and two together, but I'm like okay.
(30:14):
And then fast forward to after the incident. I don't
really remember much of talking to the officer. I remember
explaining what had happened. I remember being in front of him,
but I don't remember actually talking to him. And then
the moment that I really came to.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I think it was Jackie.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
I can't remember the night, but she was one of
the people that was sitting right next to him, and
I was leaving the cafeteria as she was coming into
the cafeteria and she had blood on her and that's
really the moment where I was like, I'm back, m
(31:02):
something's really wrong here. They eventually let us go home,
and everybody was trying to figure out what was going on,
and I was trying to figure out how to get
to the hospital and they were just like, he's.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Dealing with a lot. They're going to be doing a lot.
Just give them some time. And I'm like, okay, like.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I don't want to, but they're like, you don't need
to be there right now, not right now with why
he is.
Speaker 6 (31:26):
You're gonna lose it. Just give them some time.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
And so I was still under the impression that he
was very much.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Alive and going to make it.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Going through surgery dealing with his health. Obviously he's not
gonna die, right, He's just dealing with some health issues.
And the next day we all went back to school.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
The school didn't shut down like what they did.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Their answer to everything was we're going to put some
crisis counselors in the library if you need them, and
there was three counselors available.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
For a whole school.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
I decided. I was like, he's gonna be fine. I'll
see him after school.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
He'll be fine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm
gonna make this huge ass card from I went to
one of my teachers, I can't remember which one, and
I was like, I need.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Some card stock.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
So broke into the drawer because she didn't want to
give it to me, and got some big old card
stock paper and I made this huge, almost like a
booklet card and I wrote a message, and then somebody
else was like, oh well, let me maude a message,
(32:51):
and then little by little, everybody started writing messages. So
I kept having to add paper and add paper and
add paper, and pretty soon I could break into this
no more. So I ended up with this little booklet
of just people writing notes saying they were sorry, And
a lot of the messages are people saying they're sorry
(33:12):
for making fun of him so much and bullying him
and beating him up. And instead of it being hey,
get better, because.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
The front of it says get well.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Soon, that was my mindset. Instead it became a confessional
and everybody saying their confession and signing their name, and
I still have that.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Tigery. You know, I'm so sorry, Like my heart breaks
for you and for all of you guys, all of
the kids that had to go through that, Like you
shouldn't have been the one to go get the paper.
Your teachers, you know, should have made that something that
you all did together. And to just have like three counselors,
(34:20):
they should have that just is devastating to me, and
I'm just I'm sorry in so many ways possible that
you you had to go through this without, you know,
a support system, especially especially at that age.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
They are raising tough kids. Yes, so if they didn't
need therapy and all this stuff growing up, why would
these kids need therapy and stuff growing up? It's generations
of lack of care and we were just one of
the generations.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
A different time, a different era. I get that, you know,
but it's still it's like, my heart just breaks for
you guys. You know, I know you're a tough woman
and you've you've moved through this, and you know I
have created your own life and forged through. But still
I wish that the teachers would have done something for Larry,
(35:15):
Like did they do anything for Larry?
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Did they they sign the car?
Speaker 5 (35:20):
Not all of them. In fact, we had one teacher
who said he shouldn't have been living his life the
way he was living it and it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I think I saw that on the documentary that you
were all featured in Valentine Road.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Yeah, yeah, she very proudly stated that, and me and
her head bututted heads a few times. She was very
hardcore in her beliefs. But you don't say that to
kids that are still struggling now.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So you're saying till this day, there's still no monument
to Larry at this school. There's no tree, there's no bench.
There is there something. There's a tree without Larry's name, right.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
They made it very clear it was gonna be for Larry.
We fought for that tree. We had to jump through
hoops to get that tree. And at the end of
the day they planted the tree and would not mention
his name.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, we will keep mentioning his name, Tiger absolutely.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I mean if you ask kids nowadays, they won't know,
they won't know what that's tree for. They wouldn't even
recognize it because the day put up somewhere special. There's
nothing really beautiful around it. There's nothing. And the whole
point about it was it was supposed to be this
beautiful tree to show the growth that he didn't get
to do, and to have these flowers around it, to
(36:45):
pull in butterflies because those were his favorite team Like,
there was so much planned and at the end of
the day, why would you say his name?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
We will, And that's why it's so important that you
know around the show today to tell this story, because
this is a powerful story that everybody needs to hear.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
It's a story that a lot of people have forgotten.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
And that's the beauty of storytelling, right, beautiful part of
podcasting and television, movies and all these things. We can
still tell these stories. And I know, to you, Larry
is not just a story.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Oh no, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And I'd love to know, because you're a strong, amazing
human being, how has Larry affected your life? And how
did you move onward and upward through everything you had
to go through through this horrific trauma.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
I didn't for a long time, and just like everybody else,
we didn't deal with it. We didn't have appropriate support
to deal with it. So you learn not to deal
with it. It's the story of that name, like that
whole area.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
That's just how we deal with things. We don't. We
just sweep it under the rug and keep moving.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
And then I'd say probably when I was an adult,
probably about eighteen nineteen, that's when I really started figuring
my emotions out and healing from my own trauma, from
my own family and my own past. And didn't realize
(38:31):
how much that still affected me until that topic was
brought up in therapy and I was like, no, let's
not dig into that. So it took a lot of therapy,
a lot, and.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Therapy is amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
Yes, yes, yes, hard therapy and a lot of medication,
and it finally got me to the point where I
could come to terms.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
You're never gonna.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
Be okay with it, but you can come to terms
to the point that you're okay with life now.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
And are you okay with life now? Tiger?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, No, I have a beautiful life. My son has
his initials his Lawrence votes LF, and my son is
named Lyndon Frasier LF, So that was one of the
ways that I wanted to represent him. And then my
(39:35):
daughter we have wind chimes with butterflies for him. We
talk about him regularly. He's an active part of her
family history and it's part of why I live so
goal focused.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Now.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Yes, I have a very very productive life. I have
beautiful things to show for it. I have a beautiful family,
beautiful businesses.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
I have a beautiful life.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Tiger.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
If you want to share, maybe how you want people
to remember Larry or how you remember Larry.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
It's not so much about remembering him, and I don't
think he would want it to be about remembering him.
Speaker 6 (40:22):
Well, depending on the day, he's kind of cocky.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
But it's not about him. This story isn't singular. There's
entirely too many people dealing with similar situations and having
similar stories. And I don't think that his death is
just about him, and I don't feel that his story
(40:47):
should be about just him. I think that his story
is one stitch in a blanket of so many similar
people who are dealing with the same pain and the
same confusion and the same growth that he was dealing with.
(41:08):
And if we single out one person, then you don't
get to see the whole blanket. You can't look at
one string and go, man, that's a gorgeous pattern, because
it's not. It's one string. But when you step back
and you look at everybody that's dealing with similar situations,
it's not just a story. It's reality. And his story
(41:34):
is the reality for entirely too many people up to
this day. And I think it shouldn't be about what
happened to him and how it ended. It should be about,
you know, the eighth graders that are here right now, Yes,
who are going through this right now. Absolutely, his story
is not about him dying. His story is about that
(41:57):
eighth grader today who's going to be able to live
their life to the fullest because somebody somewhere remembered that
story that they heard about that little boy getting shot,
and they took his story serious and looked out for
(42:17):
him and made sure that that little boy got to
grow up and make his choices for his life and
have his future. Larry's story isn't his. We're all part
of it, but at the end of the day, his
story is for the little kids now who need a
future that is safe. So I don't think that anyone
(42:41):
should just focus on him, although I'm sure he'd love it,
but I'm just saying I am sure he'd be all
about it. But at the end of the day, it's
not his story. This is humanity story and how we
choose to move forward with it and if we want
(43:04):
this to continue or not.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yes, agreed. I don't even have words because you have
just said so many powerful things on this episode that
we can all reach deep in our souls and take
a look at you know, and have these important conversations
(43:30):
and that's why you know we have you here on
facing evil to share your story, to share, like you said,
our story, it's our collective story, it's our quilt right
that we will continue to stitch, stitch by stitch, just
like you said, Tiger, Thank you again, thank you.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
For sharing all of our stories.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to people
like Larry King. Larry was flamboyant, Larry was unapologetic, and
Larry was utterly himself. He had the strength to be
himself even when it wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
That kind of strength can really inspire people around you,
even people you don't realize you're inspiring. In the documentary
Valentine Road, a friend of Larry said that he inspired
her to feel comfortable enough to dress as she liked
and eventually to come out as gay.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Bold behavior inspires others to be bold and to speak
their own truth. It's all a part of building a
world that's more open, healthier, and ultimately happier and safer
for everyone. And that is a truly beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So to Larry and others like him, onward and upward,
e moua, e moua, Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Find us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod
at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And one small request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
a good review. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Paccuerero in a Vetchintila,
Matt Frederick, Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio,
with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In
Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,
(46:12):
alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge. Original
music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social
media or email us at Facingevilpod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(46:35):
favorite shows,
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, everyone, welcome back to Facing Evil. I'm Rasha Paccerreiro.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And I'm Evett Genteely and this week we're talking about
the murder of Larry King, or sometimes known as Letitia
King as well. This is a murder that took place
in broad daylight, in a classroom full of children.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yes, that's right. This murder took place in two thousand
and eight, and it is arguably one of the most
prominent anti LGBTQ murders since the murder of Matthew Shepherd
ten years. Ellen DeGeneres and Hillary Clinton even sent their
condolences at the time, and across the country there were
(01:07):
vigils and marches all in Larry's name.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, and like I said, it happened in a junior
high on a school day, and this brings up all
kind of questions about how this was able to escalate
to the point of murder in a classroom. Today, we're
going to be talking with a friend of Larry's, and
that is Tiger. She has courageously agreed to speak with us,
(01:34):
and so I'm very grateful to have her on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yes, so grateful. But now our producer Trevor is going
to take us through today's case.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
You know, at first it looked like a simple hate crime,
but as students and teachers testified at the trial last week,
a much more complicated picture has begun to emerge.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
He's remembered as friendly and outgoing, but fellow students say
he became the subject of taunts and bullying in school
at after speaking out about his sexual orientation and reportedly
wearing makeup, lipstick, and jewelry to school.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's inconceivable that anybody could be that angry at a
kid that was that nice.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Larry King, who also went by Letitia, was a fifteen
year old who was killed by a classmate in two
thousand and eight in Oxnard, California. Larry was openly gay
and often presented very effeminate. They came out when they
were ten years old. As early as then Larry was
frequently bullied for their sexual identity. In seventh grade, Larry
(02:35):
transferred to EO. Green Junior High School, and there Larry
found a tight knit group of girls to be friends with,
and by all accounts, expressed their identity proudly, wearing dresses,
high heels, and makeup. One friend even said that quote
he wore makeup better than I did. End quote. But
the boys at this new school bullied Larry ruthlessly. Larry
(02:58):
responded defiantly, reportedly talking back to their taunts by saying
things like quote, I know you want me. One of
Larry's most frequent antagonizers was a fourteen year old boy
named Brandon McInerney. Larry told some friends that something romantic
had happened between them, but the mood between them during
most school days was hostile. One day, Larry walked down
(03:22):
the hall and said to Brandon, quote, love you baby.
Brandon became incensed and told one of Larry's friends that
they would never see Larry alive again. On the morning
of February fourteenth, Larry came to school dressed unusually. They'd
left their feminine clothes at home in favor of baggy
(03:42):
pants and sneakers. They were acting strangely, too nervous, it seemed,
Teachers say Larry kept looking over their shoulder. Later that morning,
Larry sat down in the school computer lab and wrote
their name on a piece of paper. They wrote it
as Letitia King. It was one of the last things
Larry would ever write. Later that school period, Brandon McInerney
(04:06):
drew a twenty two caliber revolver and shot Larry twice
in the back of the head. Larry King died in
the hospital just two days later. Brandon was apprehended, but
public opinion both the trial and press coverage that followed
was split. The defense claimed that Larry had made themselves
a target with over the top gay behavior at school.
(04:29):
Others called this a gay panic defense, and LGBTQ activists
rallied behind Larry. In twenty eleven, Brandon McInerney was sentenced
to twenty one years in prison for second degree murder,
voluntary manslaughter, and the use of a firearm. And so,
who was Larry or Letitia King? And how does this
(04:50):
story reflect the very real dangers that queer teenagers face
in schools across America.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Today? We have the honor of speaking with someone who
knew Larry King. Joining us now is Tiger, who was
a close friend and a classmate of Larry's. Tiger, Welcome
to Facing Evil.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Thank you for having me. It's been a while since
I've talked to anybody about it, has it.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, But we're really happy that you're here with us today,
and I'm just gonna jump right into the story. You know,
this is such an important emotional story, you know, especially
for you. Can you start by just telling us how
you first met Larry and what your relationship was.
Speaker 5 (05:43):
So we met in third grade and I had been
nude to the school.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
We had just moved.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
From one side of town to the other and didn't
really have a lot of friends. I was just this
little weird kid and I was larger than everybody. I
was like a foot taller than everybody, little chunky kid
with a crazy fluffy cheetah jacket, and I thought I
was the coolest until I went to that school when
(06:12):
I was not, and I just was like, Okay, this
is my life now, and just happened to meet him.
He was in the same class, and everybody else was
making fun of my jacket, and he was like, can.
Speaker 6 (06:27):
I wear that?
Speaker 5 (06:30):
And he wore my jacket for the day, and that's
how we became friends.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
I do have a quick question for you, Tiger. I
always want to be respectful, And there of course has
been you know, different reports, different things said about Larry
as far as Larry's gender identity. As Larry's best friend
from third grade, can you just give us a little
(06:56):
tidbit about that.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
He was still in the process of figuring himself out,
and we all were at that age, of course, so
he was still going through who is he? What is
he going to be? Who is he going to be?
And during the time when he passed, he was still Larry.
He was still he. He was figuring himself out, and
(07:22):
he did go by Latitia sometimes, he did want to
be called her sometimes, but at the end of the day,
he was still he, and he was still Larry. So
I don't feel that it's up to us or anybody
that's doing a story about him to make that judgment,
because he wasn't given that chance to make that judgment
(07:44):
for himself. He didn't get to live long enough to
figure it out. So out of respect for him, he
should still be called Larry, and he should still be
he him, because that's who he was.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
When he left, beautifully said thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I completely agree
with you. You know, you said, you guys, you know,
basically you grew up together, right starting at third grade?
Did you know about what Larry was going through at home?
Did he ever talk to you about what was going on?
Back then?
Speaker 5 (08:22):
We were very very close, and our families knew each other,
and there was nothing really off limits. So we were
both very open with each other about the abuse that
we were going through as kids. And so I knew
a lot about his past. I knew a lot about
you know, as much as he knew at the time.
And then as he learned more, he would tell me more,
(08:44):
and as things would happen, he would tell me what happened.
So I was pretty in tune with what was going
on in his personal life and where he had come from.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
I was thinking about this too, because I grew up
in Hawaii, where it was, you know, a melt pot,
a little bit of everything, and me myself being biracial,
it was a great place to grow up. But you
guys grew up in Oxnard, California. Did you find that
there was diversity there or did you not, like, can
you tell me a little bit of what it was
(09:15):
like growing up in Oxnard, California being biracial.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
So in Oxnard, there's a lot of cultural diversity as adults.
As children, it's much more judgmental. So there might be
a large group of mixed children, but you can never
really find your people because you're mixed children. You're too
(09:40):
white for black folks, you're too black for white folks.
Speaker 6 (09:44):
It's one of the other.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
You can't really find yourself and your people, and mixed
kids tend to just stay by themselves instead of grouping
together and becoming that, well, we're the mixed group. It
doesn't really work like that because, especially as a mixed
kid who sees that you don't want to become another
(10:08):
closed door for somebody else. So you just learned to
create your own and stick to yourself instead of building
another group of people to shun somebody else out. You
find your people here and there, and a lot of
the times you don't fit in with anybody, or you
fit in with everybody, and you have to rely on
(10:30):
yourself more than anybody else, and it raises tough kids.
But those tough kids become tough adults, and that has
built a really tough community, and tough isn't always good.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I'm so sorry that you went through that, Tiger, and
I'm also sorry how you mentioned that you went through
abuse like Larry did as well.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Oh, don't be sorry, don't be world.
Speaker 5 (10:56):
It's all passed. And it's sad to say, but most
of the people who grew up where we grew up,
that's not an uncommon thing, really very normal. So to
hear kids that are having good childhoods is more of
a surprise than not sure. At the end of the day,
(11:18):
we can't change how we grew up, but I'm not
gonna continue that path for my daughter. I can't continue
that path. So I'm not sorry for anything that I
went through. I'm not regretting anything that I went through, because,
like I said before, it raises tough adults. But I
(11:38):
chose my toughness to go through, loving people and keep
caring for people and doing things. I wouldn't have been
the way I am if I hadn't had the childhood
that I had. So it has its negatives, but everything
has negatives and positives. You just gotta choose which one
you're gonna look at.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
I love everything that you shared with us, Tiger, every
single word, and I feel like I can only step
back in time or imagine what it was like for
you and Larry to be friends going through life. Can
you share a little bit about what you bonded over,
what you liked to do? You know, we want to
know about who Larry was as a human before Larry
(12:20):
was a victim.
Speaker 6 (12:21):
Oh, he was fucking crisy.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Sorry in a good way.
Speaker 6 (12:24):
Right. He was very, very crazy.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
We both were, but that's kind of just what made
us us. We both came from broken homes and that
built our friendship. And we were both dealing with so much,
but we were able to confide in somebody who understood. Yeah,
so we learned to grow together more and more and
(12:51):
more the more that things happened.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
We were trouble. We were not.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Like, oh, there's those good little kids. No, it was like,
oh lord, what are they getting into?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
They're being quiet, so we know they're up to something. Yeah.
We was those kids. We were the kids that, like
you had to place them on one side of the
room to keep them apart from each other. We were trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm gonna flip the switch a little bit and I'm
going to ask you a question about Brandon. You know
Brandon McInerney. Did you did you know him personally?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
I ain't heard that name and so long. Oh, so
we knew each other out of school. My mom helped
his mom when his mom was going through her addiction
and getting away from her abusive relationship with his father.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
So my mom was kind of like a sponsor for
her and would help kind of get her on the
right track. So he actually went to like he was
visiting his mom, and I was very active in what
my mom did.
Speaker 6 (14:06):
She kind of forced us into it.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
So I knew a lot of the people that were
going through the addiction struggles and the yeah, the women
and Children's Center and things like that. I was very
well known among them. And so we first met when
he was visiting his mama at one of the shelter
things or I forget what exactly it was, but we
(14:31):
met there, and I don't know if he remembers that
or not. He was not happy to be there, which
I don't blame him.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
Who would be YEA.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, he was dealing with his own stuff and that
bowled over into helping him grow into the person that
he became.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Did you two speak at that time?
Speaker 5 (14:53):
No, No, I had a tendency to be paraded around
to make my family look good and and he was
just dealing with his mama. But me and him, slowly
but surely, I met him when I switched over to EO.
Green in seventh grade. So when I switched to that school,
(15:15):
me and him met and became kind of friends. And
we had a pretty good friendship going as far as
I knew until eighth grade. Then it started getting rocky.
You know, we're all going through who we are and
what we are, and in the middle of all this,
(15:35):
we're all most of us dealing with things at home too.
So all of those combined create a very toxic environment
in the school because you've got all these kids who
are already going through hormonal things, through growth spurds, through
emotional issues, through family issues, and just trying to get
(15:58):
through junior high. Like it's a lot. It's a lot
for anybody. And unfortunately, he paired up with some other
kids that were just as toxic and became one of
the problem groups in the school because of their way
(16:19):
of coping with what we were all dealing.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
With I see, So that was happening even before he
was bullying Larry.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
It's hard to say before bullying Larry, because Larry has
been bullied every day of his life. There was never
a time in our childhood where I was not around
that he was not being bullied. And in the beginning
of seventh grade he was having a really hard time
because we had went to separate schools and he ended
(16:51):
up in EO. Green. I ended up in Blackstock, which
is another junior high not that far sure, and he
had to deal all by himself. Yeah, when we were separate,
I was sad and he was hurt.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I'm thankful that he had you with him despite all
that toxic, horrific energy around him.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Don't want it fool you. We had our fights. We
fought like siblings.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Here is your brother, you said, yeah.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
Yeah. It was one of those things where you keep
fighting each other and then they do this no contact contract, right,
so you've got to go like fourteen days without touching, talking, nothing,
and we'd last like maybe twenty four hours and then
be back to normal. And finally the school pulled in
(17:44):
our parents and was like, we can't get them to
stop talking, we keep doing there's no contact, and finally
his guardians and my mother was like, at this point,
just stop trying. They're gonna work it on their own life.
They're gonna fight, but they're gonna work it out. Just
let them deal with it. So they stopped trying to
(18:06):
do that with us.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
The fact that you came back to the school, I'm
sure it allowed him to have a little bit more freedom.
He knew his tiger was somewhere nearby.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
Oh yeah, and whenever there was issues, he knew where
to go. Like it wasn't one of those. He's dealing
with issues. He can't confine me. We would find each
other in regardless. So I'm gonna push you to be
you because I don't like fake shit, So you just
don't have to be you, and just don't worry about
other people. I don't care about other people. I'm gonna
(18:42):
be me regardless, so I expect that from the people
around me. M hm. I do occasionally regret pushing him
to be himself so much, because in the end, no
matter who pulled the trigger, no matter what the reason
(19:03):
may be that led up to that, and it's a
part of that lineup of how did this happen.
Speaker 6 (19:10):
So there are quite a.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Few times that I regret not telling him to just
just chill out a little bit, knowing where we lived.
But I think even if he did that and lived
through everything, he wouldn't really have lived through everything. He
would have had a half life. That's not fair to him.
(19:32):
So you can't really ask out of somebody. You should
live your life to the fullest, one hundred percent. Don't
water it down. Don't be somebody's cup of tea. Be
somebody shot a whiskey. And if they can't swallow you,
let him choke.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Well we'll tiger with everything that you know you've been
so open with us about. If please, if you don't
feel comfortable talking about this, please don't feel like you
have to. You know, we do not sensationalize, nor do
we want to sensationalize what happened, and we never want
to do that on facing evil.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
But from your.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Perspective, what was it like the day that Larry was shot?
Speaker 5 (20:36):
So the day that he got shot, I was late
to school that I had been dealing with some stuff
at home and I just I was late and I
got there to the front area right as.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
He got there.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
Because he was late as well, okay. And the first
thing that I noticed was he always wore this collar shirt,
a gray sweatshirt on top of that with his little
collar sticking at and these baggy two size too big,
like dark blue uniform pants that were just bagging horrible,
(21:19):
and these torn up tennis shoes that just did not
do him justice. And that was what he wore every day,
every day. So there was never anything that you'd be like.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Okay, that's different.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Until the few months leading up to the shooting.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
He had went to oh lord, I can't remember the.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Facility Cosa PACIFICA.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
Yes, so he'd been moved into the facility right before
all this happened. He was given his choice of clothing,
so he was able to pick out girls clothes, girls pants,
and was changing his style up and figuring himself out out.
So at that point you didn't really know what he
(22:03):
was going to come to school wearing. There was day
he came to school in boots and you were like,
I know, your feet.
Speaker 7 (22:08):
Hurt, and let me tell you, he walked them things
through that school and I was like, my back hurt
just thinking about it.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
Do that, But he did, and he just wanted to
figure himself out. He wanted to be him, and that
day he was wearing the usual outfit that he would wear,
the little sweater and all that. It just seemed weird,
and he was running off into his class. I got
(22:45):
moved to the special education class, the Gift and Talented,
and I was in that class with Brandon, and then
they moved Brandon into.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
That class into the computer class.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yeah, that's how they ended up in that classroom at
the same time.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I see.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
They were right across from each other, so we were
going in the same direction and I called out to him,
and instead of the usual turnaround saying something smart ass
and getting along with our day, he turned around really
scared and then just kind of went running off to
his class.
Speaker 6 (23:25):
And I was like, that's way weird.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah, like it doesn't make sense, but okay, you do
you and didn't really think much of it. And his
class ended up going to the computer room, which is
right down the hall from where we were, and we
heard the first shot, and I remember everybody talking about like,
(23:48):
who's slamming doors?
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Didn't even sound like a gun shot?
Speaker 5 (23:52):
Well, most kids around there weren't used to guns. I
grew up around guns.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
So did you know you knew?
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Yeah, automatically, I was like, irong a couple of minutes past,
and then a second one, they assumed somebody was slamming
a door, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. And
then the secretary from the front was on the speaker like, oh,
(24:18):
we're on lockdown. Everybody get down, everybody lock your doors.
And I made a stupid joke about, oh, somebody got shot.
Oh shit, yeah, and didn't think twice of it, me
being the class clown. And we all locked down. We're
(24:42):
all sitting on the floor talking and stuff, and we're
just assuming somebody acted a fool. And I'm like, I'm
still thinking, like that didn't sound right, but maybe, you know,
maybe I'm just crazy. And then Melissa, one of the
girls that I was friends with, and she got a
(25:05):
text from somebody else in Larry's class that said Brandon
shawt Larry, and she yelled it out to the class
and it all kind of went hazy.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
At that point.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Of course, I was told by the teacher at that
time that I fell down and then started screaming I knew,
I knew, I.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Knew, I knew.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You don't even remember that I.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
Don't remember nothing until a little.
Speaker 6 (25:38):
Bit later on.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You blacked it out.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I don't I don't blame you.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
I was sitting there screaming I knew, and she didn't
really understand what was going on, and she said she
tried to get it out of me, tried to figure
out what I was talking about, and I eventually told
her I knew he was going to shoot him, and
so she got a hold of one of the police
officers that was outside, and they were like, yeah, we'll
(26:06):
get her in a second.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
And pull her aside and talk to her.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
And somebody was at the window. We had pretty high windows,
and they said they saw him getting wheeled out, and
that's kind of when I start to come to not
a whole lot, but I remember thinking, like in a wheelchair,
it just wasn't computing. So they were like, yeah, they're
(26:36):
wheeling them out.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
I'm like, you know, he can walk, he can walk
in heels.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
That boy could walk right out of school. Just not
not understanding.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Your heart was probably protecting you from the trauma, of course.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
I was completely shut down, completely shut down, and then
all up a little bit hazy again. And then I
remember being in front of an officer. In the cafeteria,
all the tables were out, and ever so often you'd
(27:14):
see a detective or an officer and a student, and
I remember talking to him about what had happened. He's like,
you told your teacher you knew, and I'm like, I did.
I knew the day before. I don't think I told
y'all that. So the day before the shooting, at lunch,
Larry was kind of being a fool doing whatever, and
(27:35):
I was like, I'm gonna go do my own thing.
And from what I've heard from other people, he was
hanging out with another group of girls that I don't
really associate with. They weren't my cup of tea, so
they were hanging out with him, and I guess they
were all asking people to be their Valentines and things
like that, and they convinced him to ask Brandon to
(27:59):
be his valie time and he asked him in front
of all the boys they were all playing basketball, and
they started teasing him about it. He got pissed and
I'm not around.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
I don't know any of that. So that is all
that's what I heard. Yeah, that is all hears say.
Speaker 5 (28:18):
But as the bell rang were all headed to our
classes after lunch, and mine was art, so I'm headed
there and Brandon came up to me and told me
to say goodbye to Larry because I wasn't gonna see
him again, and me, not thinking about it, was like,
(28:41):
you're a dumb piece of shit. And we exchanged a
few words, and I told him what I thought about him,
and that was that.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
That's the day before, right the day before?
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Correct, Yes, And then after school I ended up having
attention and I ended up going out and Larry was
still there waiting for his ride because he was at
the facility still, so they came to pick him up
from school, gotcha, and he.
Speaker 6 (29:12):
Looked real like battered up.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
His hair was all a mess, his shirt was all
ripped up.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
He'd been in a scuffle.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
And so I asked him automatically what the heck happened,
and he didn't want to tell me, and I just
kept on and kept on and kept on, and I'm like,
I'm not gonna let you get in the car until
you tell me what's going on. And finally he told
me it was some of the boys, but he wouldn't
name any names. YadA YadA, And again from hearing it
(29:44):
from other people. Supposedly it was the group of boys
including Brandon.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
The basketball boys.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Yes, it was the group of boys around the courts
when he did the Valentine Game or whatever they called it.
But he would and tell me because he knows, yeah,
I'm a mess. So he didn't want me to get
in the middle of it, and so I was like okay.
Still didn't put two and two together, but I'm like okay.
(30:14):
And then fast forward to after the incident. I don't
really remember much of talking to the officer. I remember
explaining what had happened. I remember being in front of him,
but I don't remember actually talking to him. And then
the moment that I really came to.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I think it was Jackie.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
I can't remember the night, but she was one of
the people that was sitting right next to him, and
I was leaving the cafeteria as she was coming into
the cafeteria and she had blood on her and that's
really the moment where I was like, I'm back, m
(31:02):
something's really wrong here. They eventually let us go home,
and everybody was trying to figure out what was going on,
and I was trying to figure out how to get
to the hospital and they were just like, he's.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
Dealing with a lot. They're going to be doing a lot.
Just give them some time. And I'm like, okay, like.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I don't want to, but they're like, you don't need
to be there right now, not right now with why
he is.
Speaker 6 (31:26):
You're gonna lose it. Just give them some time.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
And so I was still under the impression that he
was very much.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Alive and going to make it.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Going through surgery dealing with his health. Obviously he's not
gonna die, right, He's just dealing with some health issues.
And the next day we all went back to school.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
The school didn't shut down like what they did.
Speaker 5 (31:56):
Their answer to everything was we're going to put some
crisis counselors in the library if you need them, and
there was three counselors available.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
For a whole school.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (32:12):
I decided. I was like, he's gonna be fine. I'll
see him after school.
Speaker 5 (32:19):
He'll be fine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm
gonna make this huge ass card from I went to
one of my teachers, I can't remember which one, and
I was like, I need.
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Some card stock.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
So broke into the drawer because she didn't want to
give it to me, and got some big old card
stock paper and I made this huge, almost like a
booklet card and I wrote a message, and then somebody
else was like, oh well, let me maude a message,
(32:51):
and then little by little, everybody started writing messages. So
I kept having to add paper and add paper and
add paper, and pretty soon I could break into this
no more. So I ended up with this little booklet
of just people writing notes saying they were sorry, And
a lot of the messages are people saying they're sorry
(33:12):
for making fun of him so much and bullying him
and beating him up. And instead of it being hey,
get better, because.
Speaker 6 (33:21):
The front of it says get well.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
Soon, that was my mindset. Instead it became a confessional
and everybody saying their confession and signing their name, and
I still have that.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Tigery. You know, I'm so sorry, Like my heart breaks
for you and for all of you guys, all of
the kids that had to go through that, Like you
shouldn't have been the one to go get the paper.
Your teachers, you know, should have made that something that
you all did together. And to just have like three counselors,
(34:20):
they should have that just is devastating to me, and
I'm just I'm sorry in so many ways possible that
you you had to go through this without, you know,
a support system, especially especially at that age.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
They are raising tough kids. Yes, so if they didn't
need therapy and all this stuff growing up, why would
these kids need therapy and stuff growing up? It's generations
of lack of care and we were just one of
the generations.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
A different time, a different era. I get that, you know,
but it's still it's like, my heart just breaks for
you guys. You know, I know you're a tough woman
and you've you've moved through this, and you know I
have created your own life and forged through. But still
I wish that the teachers would have done something for Larry,
(35:15):
Like did they do anything for Larry?
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Did they they sign the car?
Speaker 5 (35:20):
Not all of them. In fact, we had one teacher
who said he shouldn't have been living his life the
way he was living it and it wouldn't happen.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I think I saw that on the documentary that you
were all featured in Valentine Road.
Speaker 5 (35:34):
Yeah, yeah, she very proudly stated that, and me and
her head bututted heads a few times. She was very
hardcore in her beliefs. But you don't say that to
kids that are still struggling now.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
So you're saying till this day, there's still no monument
to Larry at this school. There's no tree, there's no bench.
There is there something. There's a tree without Larry's name, right.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
They made it very clear it was gonna be for Larry.
We fought for that tree. We had to jump through
hoops to get that tree. And at the end of
the day they planted the tree and would not mention
his name.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Well, we will keep mentioning his name, Tiger absolutely.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I mean if you ask kids nowadays, they won't know,
they won't know what that's tree for. They wouldn't even
recognize it because the day put up somewhere special. There's
nothing really beautiful around it. There's nothing. And the whole
point about it was it was supposed to be this
beautiful tree to show the growth that he didn't get
to do, and to have these flowers around it, to
(36:45):
pull in butterflies because those were his favorite team Like,
there was so much planned and at the end of
the day, why would you say his name?
Speaker 3 (36:56):
We will, And that's why it's so important that you
know around the show today to tell this story, because
this is a powerful story that everybody needs to hear.
Speaker 6 (37:08):
It's a story that a lot of people have forgotten.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
That's so true.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
And that's the beauty of storytelling, right, beautiful part of
podcasting and television, movies and all these things. We can
still tell these stories. And I know, to you, Larry
is not just a story.
Speaker 6 (37:26):
Oh no, not at all, not at all.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And I'd love to know, because you're a strong, amazing
human being, how has Larry affected your life? And how
did you move onward and upward through everything you had
to go through through this horrific trauma.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
I didn't for a long time, and just like everybody else,
we didn't deal with it. We didn't have appropriate support
to deal with it. So you learn not to deal
with it. It's the story of that name, like that
whole area.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
That's just how we deal with things. We don't. We
just sweep it under the rug and keep moving.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
And then I'd say probably when I was an adult,
probably about eighteen nineteen, that's when I really started figuring
my emotions out and healing from my own trauma, from
my own family and my own past. And didn't realize
(38:31):
how much that still affected me until that topic was
brought up in therapy and I was like, no, let's
not dig into that. So it took a lot of therapy,
a lot, and.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Therapy is amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
Yes, yes, yes, hard therapy and a lot of medication,
and it finally got me to the point where I
could come to terms.
Speaker 6 (39:01):
You're never gonna.
Speaker 5 (39:02):
Be okay with it, but you can come to terms
to the point that you're okay with life now.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
And are you okay with life now? Tiger?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (39:14):
Yeah, No, I have a beautiful life. My son has
his initials his Lawrence votes LF, and my son is
named Lyndon Frasier LF, So that was one of the
ways that I wanted to represent him. And then my
(39:35):
daughter we have wind chimes with butterflies for him. We
talk about him regularly. He's an active part of her
family history and it's part of why I live so
goal focused.
Speaker 6 (39:54):
Now.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
Yes, I have a very very productive life. I have
beautiful things to show for it. I have a beautiful family,
beautiful businesses.
Speaker 6 (40:05):
I have a beautiful life.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Tiger.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
If you want to share, maybe how you want people
to remember Larry or how you remember Larry.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
It's not so much about remembering him, and I don't
think he would want it to be about remembering him.
Speaker 6 (40:22):
Well, depending on the day, he's kind of cocky.
Speaker 5 (40:24):
But it's not about him. This story isn't singular. There's
entirely too many people dealing with similar situations and having
similar stories. And I don't think that his death is
just about him, and I don't feel that his story
(40:47):
should be about just him. I think that his story
is one stitch in a blanket of so many similar
people who are dealing with the same pain and the
same confusion and the same growth that he was dealing with.
(41:08):
And if we single out one person, then you don't
get to see the whole blanket. You can't look at
one string and go, man, that's a gorgeous pattern, because
it's not. It's one string. But when you step back
and you look at everybody that's dealing with similar situations,
it's not just a story. It's reality. And his story
(41:34):
is the reality for entirely too many people up to
this day. And I think it shouldn't be about what
happened to him and how it ended. It should be about,
you know, the eighth graders that are here right now, Yes,
who are going through this right now. Absolutely, his story
is not about him dying. His story is about that
(41:57):
eighth grader today who's going to be able to live
their life to the fullest because somebody somewhere remembered that
story that they heard about that little boy getting shot,
and they took his story serious and looked out for
(42:17):
him and made sure that that little boy got to
grow up and make his choices for his life and
have his future. Larry's story isn't his. We're all part
of it, but at the end of the day, his
story is for the little kids now who need a
future that is safe. So I don't think that anyone
(42:41):
should just focus on him, although I'm sure he'd love it,
but I'm just saying I am sure he'd be all
about it. But at the end of the day, it's
not his story. This is humanity story and how we
choose to move forward with it and if we want
(43:04):
this to continue or not.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yes, agreed. I don't even have words because you have
just said so many powerful things on this episode that
we can all reach deep in our souls and take
a look at you know, and have these important conversations
(43:30):
and that's why you know we have you here on
facing evil to share your story, to share, like you said,
our story, it's our collective story, it's our quilt right
that we will continue to stitch, stitch by stitch, just
like you said, Tiger, Thank you again, thank you.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
For sharing all of our stories.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Today's message of hope and healing goes out to people
like Larry King. Larry was flamboyant, Larry was unapologetic, and
Larry was utterly himself. He had the strength to be
himself even when it wasn't comfortable.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
That kind of strength can really inspire people around you,
even people you don't realize you're inspiring. In the documentary
Valentine Road, a friend of Larry said that he inspired
her to feel comfortable enough to dress as she liked
and eventually to come out as gay.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Bold behavior inspires others to be bold and to speak
their own truth. It's all a part of building a
world that's more open, healthier, and ultimately happier and safer
for everyone. And that is a truly beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
So to Larry and others like him, onward and upward,
e moua, e moua, Well, that's our show for today.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there's a case you'd like for us to cover.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Find us on social media or email us at Facingevilpod
at Tenderfoot dot tv.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And one small request if you haven't already, please find
us on iTunes and give us a good rating and
a good review. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Until next time, Aloha.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Paccuerero in a Vetchintila,
Matt Frederick, Alex Williams, our executive producers on behalf of iHeartRadio,
with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald albright In
Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV,
(46:12):
alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Carolyn Talmadge. Original
music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on social
media or email us at Facingevilpod at Tenderfoot dot tv.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(46:35):
favorite shows,
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