November 3, 2022 • 39 mins
Kitty Genovese was killed in 1964 outside her apartment building. According to the headlines of the time, dozens of people heard her screams but did nothing. This week, Rasha And Yvette talk about Kitty's case and the validity of the so-called "bystander effect."
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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(00:27):
Aloha everyone, Welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV
and I Heart Radio. We are your hosts. I'm Rosha
Pacarrero and I'm Vette Gentil and always we are here
with our amazing producer, Mr Trevor Young. Hey, thanks for
having me. So today we're talking about a case that
involves an openly gay woman and she was out in
(00:51):
the nineteen sixties, which was not the norm back then.
This is pre Stonewall, and she, you know, unfortunately was
was murdered. And it just makes me feel being an
out and proud lesbian in how fortunate, how blessed, how
(01:13):
privileged I am. I mean, this past weekend, I was
on top of the Alaska Airlines Pride float, you know, dancing,
and I was on television and celebrating being an out
and proud lesbian and Kitty didn't get to do that,
and it just it breaks my my heart that she
(01:34):
didn't live long enough even to see Stonewall, and I
think it could have been prevented. It was just, it
was really, it was really humbling for me to be
celebrating in honoluluhah vi E and knowing there's so many
people like Kitty who weren't able to right, so many
people who didn't get to live out loud, you know,
(01:55):
in the way that they would have liked. And with
that being said, Trevor, will you please to us through
today's case. Kitty Genovese was almost home when she heard
a man's footsteps behind her. She ran, but the man
cut up to her and stabbed her twice in the back.
She screamed, oh god, I've been stabbed. It marks around it,
(02:17):
you know, the chalk lined the outline, and the yellow
tape around the area. The idea that New Yorkers watched
and did nothing, didn't lift a finger to help this
poor dying girl stuck in the public mind. But it
was a lot more complicated than that. Kitty Genovese was
a year old woman who was killed on the streets
(02:38):
of Queens, New York in nineteen sixty four, Late the
night of marcht Kitty was walking back to her apartment
when a man stabbed her repeatedly. He initially fled when
a witness called out, but returned ten minutes later to
finish the job. A New York Times story made Kitty
Genovese story infamous with the headline quote thirty eight who
(03:01):
saw murder, didn't call the police? End quote. This story
that neighbors witnessed the murder of a young woman but
did nothing to help was so enduring that people began
calling callius in action in the face of a stranger's
peril quote Genovese syndrome or the bystander effect. But as
it turns out, the real story of the life and
(03:23):
death of Kitty Genovese is a lot more complicated. And
so who was Kitty Genovese, how did her murder actually
go down? And what does the story tell us about
the so called bystander effect. So I'd say probably about
a year ago or so, I was with my dear friend,
(03:47):
Mr David Hand in New York City, and I was
talking to him about what Vette and I were doing.
And I was before we knew you were going to
be with us, Trevor, and I asked if David help,
if he could tell me any stories in the lgbt
Q plus community that he thought needed to be told,
(04:07):
and Kitty Genovese was the one he told me I
had to look into. And the more that Yvette and
I have dove into it, the more my heart breaks
when any life is taken, you know. But the way
that that she was treated, and even her partner was
(04:29):
treated and all the things, it's just it's so much, right. Yeah,
And I had not heard about this story, um until
you know you mentioned it, um, And again I took
a deep dive. And you know, I love my documentary,
so I watched The Witness and we'll get into that
later on. But yeah, this is another yet sad story.
(04:54):
Have you ever heard about Kitty, Trevor. Yeah, it's interesting.
The way that I learned about Kitty is actually the
way that I think probably a lot of people inadvertently
learned about Kitty, which was in a psychology class maybe
in high school or college. So anybody who takes psych
one oh one may actually read about her murder because
(05:15):
of this so called bystander effect. Again, this is the
idea of a group of people doing nothing to really
help a stranger when there's a distressful situation because they
assume that everybody else is going to help out right, like, oh,
I'm not going to do anything because so and so
we'll jump in. But then nobody jumps in because again
they assume somebody else would do it, and as a result,
(05:37):
the situation doesn't get solved. Um, so this is actually
an interesting case for human psychology that people have looked
at over the years. So I actually did read about
this case in college and when we started looking into
it and researching, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
remember that. So it's an interesting idea. However, there's this
(05:57):
kind of widespread no and as a result of it
being included in psychology classes, that when Kitty was murdered,
she was killed out on the street and nobody did
anything to help, that nobody chimed in to stop And
that's actually not entirely true, which is something we'll get into.
So let's get down to who Kitty Genovese really was
(06:21):
and what really happened to her. Okay, so, Kitty Genovese,
like we said at the top of the episode, was
an out lesbian and I say that with a grain
of salt, right, because it's not like you could be
completely out in the nineteen sixties, I imagine, you know,
just because doing so would have absolutely, you know, jeopardized
(06:45):
maybe her job, her living situation. I mean you could
be fired. I mean you could be fired for being gay,
knocked out long ago. I mean, let's be real, so
you know, most likely you were going to be ostracized
just for being yourself. It was a very, very different
time back then, right, It's very true. You know there
(07:06):
are those people who were living out loud, but you
still were hiding it most of the time. Right, you
talk about your roommate quote unquote or sign of the times,
I guess, yeah. And just a quick disclaimer before we
get any further into the episode. Um, you know, we
have been mentioning the fact that Kitty was a gay woman,
closeted or otherwise. However, there's no necessarily clear connection between
(07:30):
her murder and her sexual orientation, So I just want
to be careful that we're not drawing a line between
the fact that she was murdered because she is gay. Um,
I think that happens to be more a matter of
circumstance that has, you know, maybe no connection. Right, So
just just kind of pointing out who she was as
a person is the value in talking about her being gay? Right? Um,
(07:56):
So let's talk a little bit more about Kitty. She
was born in Brooklyn, New York, work the eldest of
five kids in a Catholic family in the Park Slope neighborhood.
She attended an all girls school, where she was described
as quote mature with a good disposition, whatever that means.
And in nineteen fifty four, her mother moved the family
to Connecticut, everyone except for Kitty actually, and the reason
(08:20):
that Kitty did not move is because she had actually
witnessed our murder in the streets of New York and
was incredibly concerned for her family safety. I mean, that's
such an irony, right, It's just so crazy, because you know,
her mother moved because of what she saw and now
the story that we're about to tell, and as we know,
(08:40):
Kitty stayed behind. Yeah, right, Like the idea there was
to make the family more safe, but she ended up
staying behind in a situation that was less safe. Yeah. Well,
and the other thing is too, she was nineteen at
the time that her family moved back to Connecticut, so
she didn't really want to leave. I wouldn't want to
leave either, And it's you know, New York was her home.
(09:01):
She didn't want to go anywhere. She's an adult. Yeah,
you're nineteen, right, You have so many friends, you have
so many relationships that you've established. It's hard to just
pack up and and leave. Yeah, so Kitties living in Queens,
New York. She's working double shifts at a bar called
EV's Eleventh Hour. She's actually managing it at the point
(09:22):
of her murder, no longer just a bartender, and she's
saving up money because she wants to eventually open up
her own Italian restaurant. Reportedly, so, I mean, as you
can tell, like, she's a go getter. And she's also
living with a girlfriend at this point. Yes, I say
had a girlfriend, but you know that was a risk
(09:42):
at the time. But obviously, you know, people just assumed
that they were roommates, right right, quote unquote roommates. Yeah,
that was the thing you said back then. Yeah, but
her roommate a k a girlfriend. Her name was Mary
Anne Zilanco, and the two of them shared an apartment
in the neighborhood of Q Gardens in Queens, New York.
(10:06):
And again it's the early nineteen sixties, so they do
end up renting the apartment under the guise of being
just platonic roommates. Yeah. So I wanted to read something
really quick from a piece the Chicago Tribune did in
where they interviewed Mariannezilanco, and I think it gives us
(10:27):
a small interesting peek into the kind of relationship they had.
Quote now, looking back at two young lovers through senior
citizen eyes, Zelanco measures her adoration for Genevese in numerous ways.
Love was their regular Monday night sojourns to Greets, a
club where they would drink beer and listen to folk music.
It was Wednesday evening meals at Hofbrow, the German restaurant
(10:49):
down the block. It was late night chats and the
intimate kisses and the idea that here is a person
you can spend your life with. End quote. That makes
my gay heart so happy, Like, you know, just like
all the way in two thousand and seventeen, you know,
after she was murdered in the nineteen sixties, like they're
still you know that love there. It's just it's beautiful.
(11:13):
Just to hear little simple moments like that is just
really really sweet. And I love that Katie had that
with mary Anne. Right, it was a genuine love story. Yeah,
So moving on with the story here. On March thirteenth
of nineteen sixty four, Kitty is bartending and her shift ends.
(11:36):
She got into her red Fiat to drive home to
the apartment where her girlfriend was sleeping. And that is
the last time that anyone ever saw Kitty Genovese alive.
And we'll discuss what happened right after we take a
quick ad break. At around two thirty am on March
(11:56):
thirteenth of nineteen sixty four, Kitty Genovese tour bartending shift
and headed home to the apartment that she shared with
her girlfriend, Mary Anne. At a stoplight on Hoover Avenue,
she was spotted by a man named Winston Mosley. He
was sitting in his park Chevy Corvet. Moseley then began
following Kitty home. So Kitty parked her car in the
(12:19):
Q Gardens Long Island Railroad Station parking lot. And this
wasn't very far from her apartment, right, Trevor, Yeah, it's
super close, so only about a hundred feet from the
entrance to her apartment building and just next door to
another building across the street that will come into play
here in a minute. So you can actually find good
maps of all this online. People have mapped it out,
(12:41):
you know, so you can get a better understanding of
how this went down. Um, but really this was her block, right,
she parks here all the time. Yeah. In fact, I
was texting with my friend David, who is the one
that told us about this case, this morning, and he
sent me a picture of the map where Kitty lived
and where she was killed and where he currently lives,
(13:02):
and it's literally a block apart, like he drew it
from me, And I'm like, oh my god, I'm you know,
her history is still very rich. There so ledless to
say with all of that. You know, she didn't have
very far to go, Like, she was literally hundred feet
to safety. She was on her block. She was on
her block. She was at home. But when she got
out of her car, she presumably noticed Mosley for the
(13:26):
first time. So he had gotten out of his car
at this point and was following her close behind, carrying
a hunting knife. I can't even imagine that, Like the
fear that that she had, or that anybody would have
anybody's worst nightmare, that somebody is following you and they
have a knife coming after you. That's terrifying. Yeah, so terrifying.
(13:49):
And so she immediately starts running, but Mosley quickly catches up,
and it's at this time that he stabs her twice
in the back. She of course screams and reports verry
on what she said exactly, but it's often been reported
she was streaming something like quote, oh my god, he
(14:09):
stabbed me. Helped me end quote. So she was heard
by bystanders. Yeah, and that's where a lot of I
think misconceptions come from in this case. So the first
person we know about who actually heard her was a
neighbor named Robert Moser. So Moser apparently since that something
was going on, some sort of kerfuffle or fight outside,
(14:31):
he looked out of his window from the seventh floor,
but according to him, he couldn't see anything that was happening.
It was a very dark night by all reports, and
he did, according to him, yell out of his window
the words quote, leave that girl alone. So I guess
he could deduce that there was a girl involved in
some sort of attack outside, and I guess maybe yelling
(14:52):
was going to scare this gentleman away, right, that is
exactly what happened. But there were also other neighbors that
heard the same commotion and as well. But you know, again,
they're right next to a bar and they're used to,
you know, when the bar shuts down that kind of
people are drunk and there's some kind of commotion going on.
(15:13):
Some of these people just assumed it was that. Yeah,
And later when sint Mosley testified that Robert Moser's yelling
actually did scare him away, at least temporarily, Moseley ran
back to his car and drove off. So, of course,
Kitty was seriously injured by her two stab wounds, and
she was able to crawl towards the back of the
(15:35):
apartment building. And you know this this is significant because
it was a place where you know, she couldn't be
seen by any witnesses. So where she crawled the back
of the building, yeah, nobody could see her. It was
essentially an alley way, right right. They call it like
a what is it called like a vegetable or something
like a back alley. But you know the thing about
(15:57):
it is like when we were just talking earlier, and
that scream when she got stabbed, like that is a
blood curdling scream, you know. Um, So for you know,
the neighbors that said it was, you know, just some
kind of commotion. Um. I think that scream alone should
(16:18):
have set off all the bells and whistles, should have
like made everybody rush, you know, and called the police.
So Mosley ends up coming back, and by this time
she's gotten to an entrance around the back of the building,
but of course she severely injured from the stab wounds,
and she did get to a door, but it was locked,
so she could not get inside to safety. And it
(16:40):
was at this point that Mosley stabbed her several more times.
He raped her, and then he took all of the
money in her wallet. What's uh, I guess peculiar to
me about this is that he seemed to be on
the prowl for Kitty and particular. I don't know if
that's true, but the way that this story has been
(17:03):
told is that he was sitting in his car and
then the second that she got out and started walking
to her apartment, you know, just to block away, he
got out and started you know following her and trying
her down. So I'm curious if he knew Kitty, what
was his intended goal? Initially it was this something like
a robbery gotten wrong. Was he looking for any woman
(17:23):
that night? Yeah, it's all very mysterious to me. It's
so true, Trevor. I would put my hat on, you know,
like my crime hat on, trying to figure that out
as well, because you think about when the first act
happened and the guy yelled at him, right, you would
think that if it was just some random person like
they would just they would run off and they wouldn't
(17:44):
come back, but to wait ten more minutes and then
come back and viciously do this to her. Like again,
those questions go through your head, did he know her?
Like was it a hit or you know, like your
mind just starts to wonder of what was the motive
behind it? Or yeah, yeah, the coming back to finish
(18:06):
the job angle is very unusual. It's not often that
you here see people do that, right, So he was
dedicated enough that you know, he was willing to risk
being you know, attacked or interviewed or having having the
cops called on him to come finish this job. So
you know. After he does this, he leaves, and this
(18:30):
is the point at which her neighbors finally come to
her aid. So, there was a woman named Sophie Ferrar
who lived across the hall from Kitty and mary Anne,
and apparently at three am she got a frantic phone
call from a neighbor in another building who knew that
Kitty wasn't some kind of distress. I don't know how
they knew this, but they did so anyways, Sophie Ferrar
(18:52):
leaps up, races downstairs, and she goes through this alleyway
to reach the back entrance, just as Mosley as Lee
being the scene. This is definitely a different story than
the popular myth right that no one helped Kitty. That
this article right that came out this moment right here
completely changes everything because she wasn't alone and someone did
(19:18):
come to help her. Yeah, I guess the sad reality
is that it wasn't soon enough, right that, um, somebody
probably should have come and help sooner, as you guys
were saying, as that first blood curdling scream came out,
that should have been, you know, right when somebody jumped
on this. Had somebody gotten there sooner before you know,
Mosley made the decision that it was safe enough to
(19:39):
come back ten minutes later and finish the job. You know,
maybe this wouldn't have happened. Maybe after those first two
stab wounds, she would have been fine after some initial
medical attention. Right. So that's I think probably the real
tragedy here. But according to for our here, they were
awoken earlier by kitty screams. But according to them, it
(20:00):
was three in the morning. Many had been asleep, of course,
and they were super disoriented. It was very dark, like
I said earlier, So the ferrar said they looked out
the window, but they didn't see anything, so they went
back to sleep, and it wasn't until they got this
phone call from a neighbor a few minutes later that
they finally decided to take action. So I think you
(20:20):
can't look at this case in a vacuum and just
say that people I knew this was happening and didn't
do anything. You have to take into account the fact
that it was three in the morning and most people
were sleeping through this, the fact that it was like
a bar area in New York City in the nineteen sixties.
I'm sure you heard stuff like this often there are
(20:41):
other factors to consider as to why people didn't respond
to this. You know, I'm not saying it's okay, and
I do say, of course that had people actually responded sooner, again,
this might not have happened. But you know the reality
is that who knows, we might have done the same
thing if this was happening at three am outside our house, right, Yeah, no,
it is definitely something to consider. So Sophie Ferrar ends
(21:02):
up getting to the scene having run through those back alleyways.
But was This is the part that's super super sad
to me. She was further delayed in actually getting to
Kitty because Kitty's body was blocking the door. She was
slumped up against the door on the inside, so she
couldn't open it because her body was lying there. You know.
(21:26):
When she finally got the door open, she saw Kitty,
you know, sitting there and in all of the blood,
and she immediately yelled, you know, for another neighbor to
call the police. And that's when she just cradled her
and she, I mean as best as she could. She
tried to comfort her, you know, in the last minutes
(21:51):
of her life. Yeah, it's so sad, you know, and
an ambulance ended up arriving, but you know, she ended
up dying on the way to the hospital, you know,
And that's where the story of Kitty Genovese life ends,
and sadly, that's when the myth is born. Right. Yeah,
(22:13):
So there's some aftermath here to talk about, and we
will do that after we take another quick break. Around
four a m. The morning of March six, mary Anne
Zelanco is awoken from her sleep by two police officers
knocking on her door. She you know, actually had heard
(22:34):
none of the commotion outside the apartment building, but years
later she told reporters she was in complete and utter
shock when that not came and she had to go
and identify her girlfriend's body. So this part of the
story is what breaks my heart even more, right, And
(22:56):
Marianne was offered little to no comfort by the officers
and they ended up taking her to the police station
and Marianne was questioned for six hours. According to one
report quote, she was grilled by at least three different
detectives during that time, and the questioning took an inappropriate
(23:19):
turn focusing on their sex life. Yeah, I guess I
wish this was more surprising, but I think this kind
of approach to a case like this was probably pretty
common at the time, unfortunately, and I know the questioning
of the neighbors in the days that followed also were
centered on the fact that this was a lesbian couple
(23:41):
and that that was somehow relevant to the fact that
she was murdered, which I think, again, as we said
at the beginning of the episode, has no relevance. Yeah,
so it's the nineteen sixties though, right, So it's probably
the first thing they're thinking about, yep, Like, are they
questioning her because they think she had something to do
with it, or Kitty was murdered for being a lesbian?
(24:02):
Like I think it's a little bit of both if
you think about it, you know, because they always suspect
you know, whoever is close right to the victim at first,
so I'm sure that was in the back of their minds.
And then on top of them probably not approving, you know,
of her lifestyle. M m, yeah, I mean, if nothing else,
(24:23):
it reveals that the police were, you know, more concerned
with her fringe lifestyle than they were with solving her murder. Perhaps,
so that's maybe where her sexuality plays a contextual purpose
in this case, right, so unfortunately it didn't really end there.
Mary Anne went to Kitty's funeral only to have her family,
(24:45):
that is, Kitty's family, just refused to acknowledge her Marianne.
And then a few days later, Winston Mosley was arrested
as he tried to steal a television set from a
nearby neighborhood. After this arrest, he apparent we confessed to
Kitty's murder, which is surprising. So a little bit about
Winston Mosley. He was a twenty nine year old man
(25:08):
who lived in Ozone Park, which is basically the same
neighborhood where he was arrested. He was married with three children,
and he worked as a tab operator, which means that
he would punch tabs and cards which are used in
computers at the time. And he actually didn't have a
criminal record before this point. Still, he told police that
he had committed thirty to forty robberies along with the
(25:30):
murders he had confessed too already, So in addition to
Kitty's murder, he had also killed a woman named Annie
May Johnson a few weeks before by shooting her and
setting her on fire. Like this is just you know,
beyond I mean we go back to psychopath, right, Um,
and I just point out that Annie May Johnson was black.
(25:52):
You know, so Kitty was Italian American. Annie May Johnson
was African American. He also had an i Q of
one five and he was a very like small frame. Man.
I go back to thinking about George Hodell and just
Dr jack O. Mr. Hyde. It's interesting that he supposedly
(26:15):
has gotten away with thirty to forty crimes and or
murders without ever being discovered up until this point, right, Like,
to me, that suggests somebody who is very probably cunning,
knows what they're doing, knows how to calculate tracks, very
calculated exactly. So it could be this was like a
low key serial killer that was hiding in the shadows
(26:37):
this whole time. And sure, um that you know, as
you were alluding to, it could be he had some
sort of target on marginalized people. I don't know that
for sure. I'm just speculating, but you know, based on
the track record that you were laying out, it's very
possible and that very much falls in line with the
m O of a lot of serial killers at the time. Right, So,
I don't know, maybe there's something more to look at
(26:58):
there in the future. M Moving forward with his track record,
he also confessed to the murder of a fifteen year
old named Barbara Craylick, whose murder he was not charged with, incidentally,
because apparently somebody else had already confessed to that crime.
So right, and this is just this is so odd
to me because he's just confessing to all of these crimes.
(27:20):
But like you just said, right, he's never been convicted.
It's so bizarre on so many levels. He wants the credit.
Maybe again, that's another um serial killer trait. Right. I
don't know if you guys have ever read the writings
of John Douglas, the famous FBI profinal er, but he
finds that that is something that is very common in
(27:40):
serial killers of the sixties and seventies. So um. Anyhow,
on June eighth, Mosley's trial begins and he pleaded not
guilty by a reason of insanity. Not the first time
we've seen this, right um. And then after seven hours
of deliberation, the jury returned, of course, with a pretty
straightforward guilty verdict. Needless to say, it is good that
(28:02):
he is convicted, and a few days later, Mosley is
sentenced to death. Mostly doesn't even react to this, but
the audience in the courtroom collapse in cheers. The judge
ends up ordering them to remain calm, but he also says,
and this is a quote from the judge, although I
(28:24):
do not believe in capital punishment. When I see a
monster like this, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the switch myself.
End quote. So he sentenced and sent to prison, But
then three years later, in nineteen seven, a court rule
that Mosley should have had the chance to argue that
he was medically insane, and his sentence was then reduced
(28:46):
to life in prison. So then things take another bad turn.
As he was being escorted back to prison from a
hospital in Buffalo where he was being treated for a
self inflicted injury, he actually escaped, so he beat a
corrections officer, stole their weapon, and was able to flee
and do so much more damage. So he ends up
(29:07):
going into a vacant house owned by an older woman.
Three days later, her son, Matthew, and his wife visit
the house and Mosley takes them hostage. He binds them
and he gags them, and he rapes Matthew's wife. He
stayed for another hour before fleeing again to another home,
where he held a mother and daughter hostage for a
couple of hours before he was finally arrested again. Jeez,
(29:31):
I mean we can obviously say he is not a
sympathetic person. Um, it just seems like nothing phases this guy,
you know what I mean, He's just like cold. I
read something recently in something that Winston Mosley said in
(29:52):
one of the parole hearings, and this was years later.
This is a quote he says, for a victim outside,
it's so one time or a one hour or a
one minute affair, but for the person who's caught, it's forever.
Like it's forever for the victims and their families. Yeah,
(30:15):
it's just a type of delusional, psychopathic thinking, right. Yeah.
I think he probably has some chemical and I don't
know much about his upbringing, but you know, some sort
of chemical imbalance that leads his thinking to again lean
towards psychopathy. I think I think it's more than coldness,
you know. I think this person has very violent leanings
(30:40):
and clearly lacks any empathy whatsoever towards other humans. Yeah,
like you escape prison and you think you'd like flee
to Mexico, and like go like live on a beach
the rest of your life or something. But he breaks
out and he hurts multiple people. He was denied parole
and he died in prison at you know, the age
(31:04):
of eight one. So meanwhile, what does live on is
this myth about the murder of Kitty Genovese. What was genuinely,
you know, so sad at the time is that people came,
but they came too late. But they did come. Her
neighbors did try to help her, as we've gone over
(31:27):
during this episode, So why did we all learn this
myth that thirty eight people looked on but didn't help Kitty. Well,
I think, like most things, it's all about the way
the message is portrayed by the media right to people
in public. So most of this came from a New
York Times story published two weeks after the murder, and
(31:49):
the literal headline was quote thirty eight who saw murder,
didn't call police end quote. And of course this article
was riddled with inaccuracies. For example, the piece claimed quote
for more than half an hour, thirty eight respectable law
abiding citizens and queens washed the killer, stock and stab
a woman, and three separate attacks in Hugh Gardens. Not
(32:10):
one person telephone the police during the assault. One witness
called after the woman was dead. So, as we've said
this whole episode, very few of those things are true. Right, Yes,
The thing that really sticks with me about this case
is when that article was written in the New York
Times about the thirty eight bystanders that consciously affected the
(32:35):
masses of people. Right. Yes, there are people who don't
want to get involved, but most importantly people do want
to get involved. People do want to help their neighbors,
and that that is the disservice that that particular article,
you know, lead for the masses. Yeah, I will say
(32:55):
as a trained journalist, obviously getting things accurate is InCred
really important to me, and you know, like any journalist,
it would bug me when I discover in accuracies in
well known publications. You know. That said, there is a
bit of a maybe unintended silver lining that was pretty
common with media in the mid century American publications, which
(33:18):
is that they would over dramatize certain issues for the
sake of scaring people into being better. So, although this
was inaccurate, it did have the effect of exposing this
kind of issue to people. Even if the issue is
not this black and white. It can certainly be an issue,
right that a group of bystanders don't do anything because
(33:41):
they assume everybody else is going to do something. Like again,
that's in psychology books. That is a thing. So now
everybody knows about that as a thing. And now more
people are cautious about that. You know, even if their
understanding of the issue is flawed, right, at least there
to some degree conscious of it. And you know, maybe
next time that that happens in their neighborhood, now that
(34:03):
they've read this New York Times article, they would know
to do something and they wouldn't want to be like
the people they read about in that news article. So
I don't know, like it's it's kind of a double
edged sword, right, it serves some purpose and then you know,
kind of flounders on the other side of the coin.
So just something to consider, right, One huge positive thing
(34:27):
that came out of this crime, And this is exactly
why when I was speaking to David, my beautiful friend,
I knew we had to do this story. Because Kitty
Genovese was murdered. That actually led to the creation of
what we all now know today as nine one one
(34:48):
that didn't exist back then, you know, like the New
York Times article stated how the thirty eight people you
know didn't come to her aid, but two people did
call the police, you know. And maybe if we would
have had nine one one back then, maybe Kitty would
have made it. Maybe she would have lived. Strange to
imagine a world without one person who remembered Kitty Geno
(35:13):
Vase before she was a victim, was really the love
of her life at the time, her girlfriend, Mary Anne Zlonko.
In two thousand four, Marianne spoke to the like I
said the Chicago Tribune, and I'm going to quote that
piece here and trying to do it without tears. To Zelanco,
(35:35):
Genovese is alive. She is still standing there in the
Manhattan bar. Whether two first met on an early spring
day in nine running a hand through her short brown
hair while taking a drag from the end of a
camel cigarette. General Vase was a talkative woman with big
(35:56):
brown eyes, an infectious giggle, a tiny gap at the
tip of her two front teeth, and the year old
Silanco was smitten. And this brings us to our always
(36:17):
our message of hope and healing. And I really think
about my mom right now, because my mom, I should say.
Our mom would always say to look for the helpers.
So our ema goes out to the good neighbors among us.
(36:37):
We see you, yes we do. And Sophie Ferrar was
Kitty Genovass neighbor. Sophie risked her own life by rushing
in to save Kitty's life, and she cradled the dying
woman's head in her lap, trying to comfort her and
what would be her final moments on this earth. We
can make the largest difference in someone's life of life
(37:00):
saving difference simply by noticing a neighbor helping them taking action.
That action may be simple, It might just be a conversation,
just just asking someone how are you, how is your day?
But such kindness, whether it be large or small, it
(37:22):
makes a big difference. And if you are someone who
has showed up for a neighbor, we have been kind
of a stranger. We see you and we thank you.
Onward and upward. Imama, Well, that is our show for today.
(37:44):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there is a case that you would like
us to cover, find us on social media or facing
an Evil pod or email us at Facing Evil Pod
at tenderfoot dot tv and one request. If you haven't already,
please find us on iTunes and give us a review
(38:05):
and good rating. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished. Until next time, ah Loha. Facing
(38:25):
Evil is a production of I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Pecarero and a Vettel.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of I Heart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk,
Donald Albright and Paine Lindsay our executive producers on behalf
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is
(38:50):
Claudia Dafrico. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find
us on social media or email us at Facing Evil
pot at tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of I Heart
Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in
this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in
the show and do not represent those of I Heart
Radio or Tenderfoot TV. This podcast contains subject matter which
may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
(00:27):
Aloha everyone, Welcome back to Facing Evil from Tenderfoot TV
and I Heart Radio. We are your hosts. I'm Rosha
Pacarrero and I'm Vette Gentil and always we are here
with our amazing producer, Mr Trevor Young. Hey, thanks for
having me. So today we're talking about a case that
involves an openly gay woman and she was out in
(00:51):
the nineteen sixties, which was not the norm back then.
This is pre Stonewall, and she, you know, unfortunately was
was murdered. And it just makes me feel being an
out and proud lesbian in how fortunate, how blessed, how
(01:13):
privileged I am. I mean, this past weekend, I was
on top of the Alaska Airlines Pride float, you know, dancing,
and I was on television and celebrating being an out
and proud lesbian and Kitty didn't get to do that,
and it just it breaks my my heart that she
(01:34):
didn't live long enough even to see Stonewall, and I
think it could have been prevented. It was just, it
was really, it was really humbling for me to be
celebrating in honoluluhah vi E and knowing there's so many
people like Kitty who weren't able to right, so many
people who didn't get to live out loud, you know,
(01:55):
in the way that they would have liked. And with
that being said, Trevor, will you please to us through
today's case. Kitty Genovese was almost home when she heard
a man's footsteps behind her. She ran, but the man
cut up to her and stabbed her twice in the back.
She screamed, oh god, I've been stabbed. It marks around it,
(02:17):
you know, the chalk lined the outline, and the yellow
tape around the area. The idea that New Yorkers watched
and did nothing, didn't lift a finger to help this
poor dying girl stuck in the public mind. But it
was a lot more complicated than that. Kitty Genovese was
a year old woman who was killed on the streets
(02:38):
of Queens, New York in nineteen sixty four, Late the
night of marcht Kitty was walking back to her apartment
when a man stabbed her repeatedly. He initially fled when
a witness called out, but returned ten minutes later to
finish the job. A New York Times story made Kitty
Genovese story infamous with the headline quote thirty eight who
(03:01):
saw murder, didn't call the police? End quote. This story
that neighbors witnessed the murder of a young woman but
did nothing to help was so enduring that people began
calling callius in action in the face of a stranger's
peril quote Genovese syndrome or the bystander effect. But as
it turns out, the real story of the life and
(03:23):
death of Kitty Genovese is a lot more complicated. And
so who was Kitty Genovese, how did her murder actually
go down? And what does the story tell us about
the so called bystander effect. So I'd say probably about
a year ago or so, I was with my dear friend,
(03:47):
Mr David Hand in New York City, and I was
talking to him about what Vette and I were doing.
And I was before we knew you were going to
be with us, Trevor, and I asked if David help,
if he could tell me any stories in the lgbt
Q plus community that he thought needed to be told,
(04:07):
and Kitty Genovese was the one he told me I
had to look into. And the more that Yvette and
I have dove into it, the more my heart breaks
when any life is taken, you know. But the way
that that she was treated, and even her partner was
(04:29):
treated and all the things, it's just it's so much, right. Yeah,
And I had not heard about this story, um until
you know you mentioned it, um, And again I took
a deep dive. And you know, I love my documentary,
so I watched The Witness and we'll get into that
later on. But yeah, this is another yet sad story.
(04:54):
Have you ever heard about Kitty, Trevor. Yeah, it's interesting.
The way that I learned about Kitty is actually the
way that I think probably a lot of people inadvertently
learned about Kitty, which was in a psychology class maybe
in high school or college. So anybody who takes psych
one oh one may actually read about her murder because
(05:15):
of this so called bystander effect. Again, this is the
idea of a group of people doing nothing to really
help a stranger when there's a distressful situation because they
assume that everybody else is going to help out right, like, oh,
I'm not going to do anything because so and so
we'll jump in. But then nobody jumps in because again
they assume somebody else would do it, and as a result,
(05:37):
the situation doesn't get solved. Um, so this is actually
an interesting case for human psychology that people have looked
at over the years. So I actually did read about
this case in college and when we started looking into
it and researching, and I was like, oh, yeah, I
remember that. So it's an interesting idea. However, there's this
(05:57):
kind of widespread no and as a result of it
being included in psychology classes, that when Kitty was murdered,
she was killed out on the street and nobody did
anything to help, that nobody chimed in to stop And
that's actually not entirely true, which is something we'll get into.
So let's get down to who Kitty Genovese really was
(06:21):
and what really happened to her. Okay, so, Kitty Genovese,
like we said at the top of the episode, was
an out lesbian and I say that with a grain
of salt, right, because it's not like you could be
completely out in the nineteen sixties, I imagine, you know,
just because doing so would have absolutely, you know, jeopardized
(06:45):
maybe her job, her living situation. I mean you could
be fired. I mean you could be fired for being gay,
knocked out long ago. I mean, let's be real, so
you know, most likely you were going to be ostracized
just for being yourself. It was a very, very different
time back then, right, It's very true. You know there
(07:06):
are those people who were living out loud, but you
still were hiding it most of the time. Right, you
talk about your roommate quote unquote or sign of the times,
I guess, yeah. And just a quick disclaimer before we
get any further into the episode. Um, you know, we
have been mentioning the fact that Kitty was a gay woman,
closeted or otherwise. However, there's no necessarily clear connection between
(07:30):
her murder and her sexual orientation, So I just want
to be careful that we're not drawing a line between
the fact that she was murdered because she is gay. Um,
I think that happens to be more a matter of
circumstance that has, you know, maybe no connection. Right, So
just just kind of pointing out who she was as
a person is the value in talking about her being gay? Right? Um,
(07:56):
So let's talk a little bit more about Kitty. She
was born in Brooklyn, New York, work the eldest of
five kids in a Catholic family in the Park Slope neighborhood.
She attended an all girls school, where she was described
as quote mature with a good disposition, whatever that means.
And in nineteen fifty four, her mother moved the family
to Connecticut, everyone except for Kitty actually, and the reason
(08:20):
that Kitty did not move is because she had actually
witnessed our murder in the streets of New York and
was incredibly concerned for her family safety. I mean, that's
such an irony, right, It's just so crazy, because you know,
her mother moved because of what she saw and now
the story that we're about to tell, and as we know,
(08:40):
Kitty stayed behind. Yeah, right, Like the idea there was
to make the family more safe, but she ended up
staying behind in a situation that was less safe. Yeah. Well,
and the other thing is too, she was nineteen at
the time that her family moved back to Connecticut, so
she didn't really want to leave. I wouldn't want to
leave either, And it's you know, New York was her home.
(09:01):
She didn't want to go anywhere. She's an adult. Yeah,
you're nineteen, right, You have so many friends, you have
so many relationships that you've established. It's hard to just
pack up and and leave. Yeah, so Kitties living in Queens,
New York. She's working double shifts at a bar called
EV's Eleventh Hour. She's actually managing it at the point
(09:22):
of her murder, no longer just a bartender, and she's
saving up money because she wants to eventually open up
her own Italian restaurant. Reportedly, so, I mean, as you
can tell, like, she's a go getter. And she's also
living with a girlfriend at this point. Yes, I say
had a girlfriend, but you know that was a risk
(09:42):
at the time. But obviously, you know, people just assumed
that they were roommates, right right, quote unquote roommates. Yeah,
that was the thing you said back then. Yeah, but
her roommate a k a girlfriend. Her name was Mary
Anne Zilanco, and the two of them shared an apartment
in the neighborhood of Q Gardens in Queens, New York.
(10:06):
And again it's the early nineteen sixties, so they do
end up renting the apartment under the guise of being
just platonic roommates. Yeah. So I wanted to read something
really quick from a piece the Chicago Tribune did in
where they interviewed Mariannezilanco, and I think it gives us
(10:27):
a small interesting peek into the kind of relationship they had.
Quote now, looking back at two young lovers through senior
citizen eyes, Zelanco measures her adoration for Genevese in numerous ways.
Love was their regular Monday night sojourns to Greets, a
club where they would drink beer and listen to folk music.
It was Wednesday evening meals at Hofbrow, the German restaurant
(10:49):
down the block. It was late night chats and the
intimate kisses and the idea that here is a person
you can spend your life with. End quote. That makes
my gay heart so happy, Like, you know, just like
all the way in two thousand and seventeen, you know,
after she was murdered in the nineteen sixties, like they're
still you know that love there. It's just it's beautiful.
(11:13):
Just to hear little simple moments like that is just
really really sweet. And I love that Katie had that
with mary Anne. Right, it was a genuine love story. Yeah,
So moving on with the story here. On March thirteenth
of nineteen sixty four, Kitty is bartending and her shift ends.
(11:36):
She got into her red Fiat to drive home to
the apartment where her girlfriend was sleeping. And that is
the last time that anyone ever saw Kitty Genovese alive.
And we'll discuss what happened right after we take a
quick ad break. At around two thirty am on March
(11:56):
thirteenth of nineteen sixty four, Kitty Genovese tour bartending shift
and headed home to the apartment that she shared with
her girlfriend, Mary Anne. At a stoplight on Hoover Avenue,
she was spotted by a man named Winston Mosley. He
was sitting in his park Chevy Corvet. Moseley then began
following Kitty home. So Kitty parked her car in the
(12:19):
Q Gardens Long Island Railroad Station parking lot. And this
wasn't very far from her apartment, right, Trevor, Yeah, it's
super close, so only about a hundred feet from the
entrance to her apartment building and just next door to
another building across the street that will come into play
here in a minute. So you can actually find good
maps of all this online. People have mapped it out,
(12:41):
you know, so you can get a better understanding of
how this went down. Um, but really this was her block, right,
she parks here all the time. Yeah. In fact, I
was texting with my friend David, who is the one
that told us about this case, this morning, and he
sent me a picture of the map where Kitty lived
and where she was killed and where he currently lives,
(13:02):
and it's literally a block apart, like he drew it
from me, And I'm like, oh my god, I'm you know,
her history is still very rich. There so ledless to
say with all of that. You know, she didn't have
very far to go, Like, she was literally hundred feet
to safety. She was on her block. She was on
her block. She was at home. But when she got
out of her car, she presumably noticed Mosley for the
(13:26):
first time. So he had gotten out of his car
at this point and was following her close behind, carrying
a hunting knife. I can't even imagine that, Like the
fear that that she had, or that anybody would have
anybody's worst nightmare, that somebody is following you and they
have a knife coming after you. That's terrifying. Yeah, so terrifying.
(13:49):
And so she immediately starts running, but Mosley quickly catches up,
and it's at this time that he stabs her twice
in the back. She of course screams and reports verry
on what she said exactly, but it's often been reported
she was streaming something like quote, oh my god, he
(14:09):
stabbed me. Helped me end quote. So she was heard
by bystanders. Yeah, and that's where a lot of I
think misconceptions come from in this case. So the first
person we know about who actually heard her was a
neighbor named Robert Moser. So Moser apparently since that something
was going on, some sort of kerfuffle or fight outside,
(14:31):
he looked out of his window from the seventh floor,
but according to him, he couldn't see anything that was happening.
It was a very dark night by all reports, and
he did, according to him, yell out of his window
the words quote, leave that girl alone. So I guess
he could deduce that there was a girl involved in
some sort of attack outside, and I guess maybe yelling
(14:52):
was going to scare this gentleman away, right, that is
exactly what happened. But there were also other neighbors that
heard the same commotion and as well. But you know, again,
they're right next to a bar and they're used to,
you know, when the bar shuts down that kind of
people are drunk and there's some kind of commotion going on.
(15:13):
Some of these people just assumed it was that. Yeah,
And later when sint Mosley testified that Robert Moser's yelling
actually did scare him away, at least temporarily, Moseley ran
back to his car and drove off. So, of course,
Kitty was seriously injured by her two stab wounds, and
she was able to crawl towards the back of the
(15:35):
apartment building. And you know this this is significant because
it was a place where you know, she couldn't be
seen by any witnesses. So where she crawled the back
of the building, yeah, nobody could see her. It was
essentially an alley way, right right. They call it like
a what is it called like a vegetable or something
like a back alley. But you know the thing about
(15:57):
it is like when we were just talking earlier, and
that scream when she got stabbed, like that is a
blood curdling scream, you know. Um, So for you know,
the neighbors that said it was, you know, just some
kind of commotion. Um. I think that scream alone should
(16:18):
have set off all the bells and whistles, should have
like made everybody rush, you know, and called the police.
So Mosley ends up coming back, and by this time
she's gotten to an entrance around the back of the building,
but of course she severely injured from the stab wounds,
and she did get to a door, but it was locked,
so she could not get inside to safety. And it
(16:40):
was at this point that Mosley stabbed her several more times.
He raped her, and then he took all of the
money in her wallet. What's uh, I guess peculiar to
me about this is that he seemed to be on
the prowl for Kitty and particular. I don't know if
that's true, but the way that this story has been
(17:03):
told is that he was sitting in his car and
then the second that she got out and started walking
to her apartment, you know, just to block away, he
got out and started you know following her and trying
her down. So I'm curious if he knew Kitty, what
was his intended goal? Initially it was this something like
a robbery gotten wrong. Was he looking for any woman
(17:23):
that night? Yeah, it's all very mysterious to me. It's
so true, Trevor. I would put my hat on, you know,
like my crime hat on, trying to figure that out
as well, because you think about when the first act
happened and the guy yelled at him, right, you would
think that if it was just some random person like
they would just they would run off and they wouldn't
(17:44):
come back, but to wait ten more minutes and then
come back and viciously do this to her. Like again,
those questions go through your head, did he know her?
Like was it a hit or you know, like your
mind just starts to wonder of what was the motive
behind it? Or yeah, yeah, the coming back to finish
(18:06):
the job angle is very unusual. It's not often that
you here see people do that, right, So he was
dedicated enough that you know, he was willing to risk
being you know, attacked or interviewed or having having the
cops called on him to come finish this job. So
you know. After he does this, he leaves, and this
(18:30):
is the point at which her neighbors finally come to
her aid. So, there was a woman named Sophie Ferrar
who lived across the hall from Kitty and mary Anne,
and apparently at three am she got a frantic phone
call from a neighbor in another building who knew that
Kitty wasn't some kind of distress. I don't know how
they knew this, but they did so anyways, Sophie Ferrar
(18:52):
leaps up, races downstairs, and she goes through this alleyway
to reach the back entrance, just as Mosley as Lee
being the scene. This is definitely a different story than
the popular myth right that no one helped Kitty. That
this article right that came out this moment right here
completely changes everything because she wasn't alone and someone did
(19:18):
come to help her. Yeah, I guess the sad reality
is that it wasn't soon enough, right that, um, somebody
probably should have come and help sooner, as you guys
were saying, as that first blood curdling scream came out,
that should have been, you know, right when somebody jumped
on this. Had somebody gotten there sooner before you know,
Mosley made the decision that it was safe enough to
(19:39):
come back ten minutes later and finish the job. You know,
maybe this wouldn't have happened. Maybe after those first two
stab wounds, she would have been fine after some initial
medical attention. Right. So that's I think probably the real
tragedy here. But according to for our here, they were
awoken earlier by kitty screams. But according to them, it
(20:00):
was three in the morning. Many had been asleep, of course,
and they were super disoriented. It was very dark, like
I said earlier, So the ferrar said they looked out
the window, but they didn't see anything, so they went
back to sleep, and it wasn't until they got this
phone call from a neighbor a few minutes later that
they finally decided to take action. So I think you
(20:20):
can't look at this case in a vacuum and just
say that people I knew this was happening and didn't
do anything. You have to take into account the fact
that it was three in the morning and most people
were sleeping through this, the fact that it was like
a bar area in New York City in the nineteen sixties.
I'm sure you heard stuff like this often there are
(20:41):
other factors to consider as to why people didn't respond
to this. You know, I'm not saying it's okay, and
I do say, of course that had people actually responded sooner, again,
this might not have happened. But you know the reality
is that who knows, we might have done the same
thing if this was happening at three am outside our house, right, Yeah, no,
it is definitely something to consider. So Sophie Ferrar ends
(21:02):
up getting to the scene having run through those back alleyways.
But was This is the part that's super super sad
to me. She was further delayed in actually getting to
Kitty because Kitty's body was blocking the door. She was
slumped up against the door on the inside, so she
couldn't open it because her body was lying there. You know.
(21:26):
When she finally got the door open, she saw Kitty,
you know, sitting there and in all of the blood,
and she immediately yelled, you know, for another neighbor to
call the police. And that's when she just cradled her
and she, I mean as best as she could. She
tried to comfort her, you know, in the last minutes
(21:51):
of her life. Yeah, it's so sad, you know, and
an ambulance ended up arriving, but you know, she ended
up dying on the way to the hospital, you know,
And that's where the story of Kitty Genovese life ends,
and sadly, that's when the myth is born. Right. Yeah,
(22:13):
So there's some aftermath here to talk about, and we
will do that after we take another quick break. Around
four a m. The morning of March six, mary Anne
Zelanco is awoken from her sleep by two police officers
knocking on her door. She you know, actually had heard
(22:34):
none of the commotion outside the apartment building, but years
later she told reporters she was in complete and utter
shock when that not came and she had to go
and identify her girlfriend's body. So this part of the
story is what breaks my heart even more, right, And
(22:56):
Marianne was offered little to no comfort by the officers
and they ended up taking her to the police station
and Marianne was questioned for six hours. According to one
report quote, she was grilled by at least three different
detectives during that time, and the questioning took an inappropriate
(23:19):
turn focusing on their sex life. Yeah, I guess I
wish this was more surprising, but I think this kind
of approach to a case like this was probably pretty
common at the time, unfortunately, and I know the questioning
of the neighbors in the days that followed also were
centered on the fact that this was a lesbian couple
(23:41):
and that that was somehow relevant to the fact that
she was murdered, which I think, again, as we said
at the beginning of the episode, has no relevance. Yeah,
so it's the nineteen sixties though, right, So it's probably
the first thing they're thinking about, yep, Like, are they
questioning her because they think she had something to do
with it, or Kitty was murdered for being a lesbian?
(24:02):
Like I think it's a little bit of both if
you think about it, you know, because they always suspect
you know, whoever is close right to the victim at first,
so I'm sure that was in the back of their minds.
And then on top of them probably not approving, you know,
of her lifestyle. M m, yeah, I mean, if nothing else,
(24:23):
it reveals that the police were, you know, more concerned
with her fringe lifestyle than they were with solving her murder. Perhaps,
so that's maybe where her sexuality plays a contextual purpose
in this case, right, so unfortunately it didn't really end there.
Mary Anne went to Kitty's funeral only to have her family,
(24:45):
that is, Kitty's family, just refused to acknowledge her Marianne.
And then a few days later, Winston Mosley was arrested
as he tried to steal a television set from a
nearby neighborhood. After this arrest, he apparent we confessed to
Kitty's murder, which is surprising. So a little bit about
Winston Mosley. He was a twenty nine year old man
(25:08):
who lived in Ozone Park, which is basically the same
neighborhood where he was arrested. He was married with three children,
and he worked as a tab operator, which means that
he would punch tabs and cards which are used in
computers at the time. And he actually didn't have a
criminal record before this point. Still, he told police that
he had committed thirty to forty robberies along with the
(25:30):
murders he had confessed too already, So in addition to
Kitty's murder, he had also killed a woman named Annie
May Johnson a few weeks before by shooting her and
setting her on fire. Like this is just you know,
beyond I mean we go back to psychopath, right, Um,
and I just point out that Annie May Johnson was black.
(25:52):
You know, so Kitty was Italian American. Annie May Johnson
was African American. He also had an i Q of
one five and he was a very like small frame. Man.
I go back to thinking about George Hodell and just
Dr jack O. Mr. Hyde. It's interesting that he supposedly
(26:15):
has gotten away with thirty to forty crimes and or
murders without ever being discovered up until this point, right, Like,
to me, that suggests somebody who is very probably cunning,
knows what they're doing, knows how to calculate tracks, very
calculated exactly. So it could be this was like a
low key serial killer that was hiding in the shadows
(26:37):
this whole time. And sure, um that you know, as
you were alluding to, it could be he had some
sort of target on marginalized people. I don't know that
for sure. I'm just speculating, but you know, based on
the track record that you were laying out, it's very
possible and that very much falls in line with the
m O of a lot of serial killers at the time. Right, So,
I don't know, maybe there's something more to look at
(26:58):
there in the future. M Moving forward with his track record,
he also confessed to the murder of a fifteen year
old named Barbara Craylick, whose murder he was not charged with, incidentally,
because apparently somebody else had already confessed to that crime.
So right, and this is just this is so odd
to me because he's just confessing to all of these crimes.
(27:20):
But like you just said, right, he's never been convicted.
It's so bizarre on so many levels. He wants the credit.
Maybe again, that's another um serial killer trait. Right. I
don't know if you guys have ever read the writings
of John Douglas, the famous FBI profinal er, but he
finds that that is something that is very common in
(27:40):
serial killers of the sixties and seventies. So um. Anyhow,
on June eighth, Mosley's trial begins and he pleaded not
guilty by a reason of insanity. Not the first time
we've seen this, right um. And then after seven hours
of deliberation, the jury returned, of course, with a pretty
straightforward guilty verdict. Needless to say, it is good that
(28:02):
he is convicted, and a few days later, Mosley is
sentenced to death. Mostly doesn't even react to this, but
the audience in the courtroom collapse in cheers. The judge
ends up ordering them to remain calm, but he also says,
and this is a quote from the judge, although I
(28:24):
do not believe in capital punishment. When I see a
monster like this, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the switch myself.
End quote. So he sentenced and sent to prison, But
then three years later, in nineteen seven, a court rule
that Mosley should have had the chance to argue that
he was medically insane, and his sentence was then reduced
(28:46):
to life in prison. So then things take another bad turn.
As he was being escorted back to prison from a
hospital in Buffalo where he was being treated for a
self inflicted injury, he actually escaped, so he beat a
corrections officer, stole their weapon, and was able to flee
and do so much more damage. So he ends up
(29:07):
going into a vacant house owned by an older woman.
Three days later, her son, Matthew, and his wife visit
the house and Mosley takes them hostage. He binds them
and he gags them, and he rapes Matthew's wife. He
stayed for another hour before fleeing again to another home,
where he held a mother and daughter hostage for a
couple of hours before he was finally arrested again. Jeez,
(29:31):
I mean we can obviously say he is not a
sympathetic person. Um, it just seems like nothing phases this guy,
you know what I mean, He's just like cold. I
read something recently in something that Winston Mosley said in
(29:52):
one of the parole hearings, and this was years later.
This is a quote he says, for a victim outside,
it's so one time or a one hour or a
one minute affair, but for the person who's caught, it's forever.
Like it's forever for the victims and their families. Yeah,
(30:15):
it's just a type of delusional, psychopathic thinking, right. Yeah.
I think he probably has some chemical and I don't
know much about his upbringing, but you know, some sort
of chemical imbalance that leads his thinking to again lean
towards psychopathy. I think I think it's more than coldness,
you know. I think this person has very violent leanings
(30:40):
and clearly lacks any empathy whatsoever towards other humans. Yeah,
like you escape prison and you think you'd like flee
to Mexico, and like go like live on a beach
the rest of your life or something. But he breaks
out and he hurts multiple people. He was denied parole
and he died in prison at you know, the age
(31:04):
of eight one. So meanwhile, what does live on is
this myth about the murder of Kitty Genovese. What was genuinely,
you know, so sad at the time is that people came,
but they came too late. But they did come. Her
neighbors did try to help her, as we've gone over
(31:27):
during this episode, So why did we all learn this
myth that thirty eight people looked on but didn't help Kitty. Well,
I think, like most things, it's all about the way
the message is portrayed by the media right to people
in public. So most of this came from a New
York Times story published two weeks after the murder, and
(31:49):
the literal headline was quote thirty eight who saw murder,
didn't call police end quote. And of course this article
was riddled with inaccuracies. For example, the piece claimed quote
for more than half an hour, thirty eight respectable law
abiding citizens and queens washed the killer, stock and stab
a woman, and three separate attacks in Hugh Gardens. Not
(32:10):
one person telephone the police during the assault. One witness
called after the woman was dead. So, as we've said
this whole episode, very few of those things are true. Right, Yes,
The thing that really sticks with me about this case
is when that article was written in the New York
Times about the thirty eight bystanders that consciously affected the
(32:35):
masses of people. Right. Yes, there are people who don't
want to get involved, but most importantly people do want
to get involved. People do want to help their neighbors,
and that that is the disservice that that particular article,
you know, lead for the masses. Yeah, I will say
(32:55):
as a trained journalist, obviously getting things accurate is InCred
really important to me, and you know, like any journalist,
it would bug me when I discover in accuracies in
well known publications. You know. That said, there is a
bit of a maybe unintended silver lining that was pretty
common with media in the mid century American publications, which
(33:18):
is that they would over dramatize certain issues for the
sake of scaring people into being better. So, although this
was inaccurate, it did have the effect of exposing this
kind of issue to people. Even if the issue is
not this black and white. It can certainly be an issue,
right that a group of bystanders don't do anything because
(33:41):
they assume everybody else is going to do something. Like again,
that's in psychology books. That is a thing. So now
everybody knows about that as a thing. And now more
people are cautious about that. You know, even if their
understanding of the issue is flawed, right, at least there
to some degree conscious of it. And you know, maybe
next time that that happens in their neighborhood, now that
(34:03):
they've read this New York Times article, they would know
to do something and they wouldn't want to be like
the people they read about in that news article. So
I don't know, like it's it's kind of a double
edged sword, right, it serves some purpose and then you know,
kind of flounders on the other side of the coin.
So just something to consider, right, One huge positive thing
(34:27):
that came out of this crime, And this is exactly
why when I was speaking to David, my beautiful friend,
I knew we had to do this story. Because Kitty
Genovese was murdered. That actually led to the creation of
what we all now know today as nine one one
(34:48):
that didn't exist back then, you know, like the New
York Times article stated how the thirty eight people you
know didn't come to her aid, but two people did
call the police, you know. And maybe if we would
have had nine one one back then, maybe Kitty would
have made it. Maybe she would have lived. Strange to
imagine a world without one person who remembered Kitty Geno
(35:13):
Vase before she was a victim, was really the love
of her life at the time, her girlfriend, Mary Anne Zlonko.
In two thousand four, Marianne spoke to the like I
said the Chicago Tribune, and I'm going to quote that
piece here and trying to do it without tears. To Zelanco,
(35:35):
Genovese is alive. She is still standing there in the
Manhattan bar. Whether two first met on an early spring
day in nine running a hand through her short brown
hair while taking a drag from the end of a
camel cigarette. General Vase was a talkative woman with big
(35:56):
brown eyes, an infectious giggle, a tiny gap at the
tip of her two front teeth, and the year old
Silanco was smitten. And this brings us to our always
(36:17):
our message of hope and healing. And I really think
about my mom right now, because my mom, I should say.
Our mom would always say to look for the helpers.
So our ema goes out to the good neighbors among us.
(36:37):
We see you, yes we do. And Sophie Ferrar was
Kitty Genovass neighbor. Sophie risked her own life by rushing
in to save Kitty's life, and she cradled the dying
woman's head in her lap, trying to comfort her and
what would be her final moments on this earth. We
can make the largest difference in someone's life of life
(37:00):
saving difference simply by noticing a neighbor helping them taking action.
That action may be simple, It might just be a conversation,
just just asking someone how are you, how is your day?
But such kindness, whether it be large or small, it
(37:22):
makes a big difference. And if you are someone who
has showed up for a neighbor, we have been kind
of a stranger. We see you and we thank you.
Onward and upward. Imama, Well, that is our show for today.
(37:44):
We'd love to hear what you thought about today's discussion
and if there is a case that you would like
us to cover, find us on social media or facing
an Evil pod or email us at Facing Evil Pod
at tenderfoot dot tv and one request. If you haven't already,
please find us on iTunes and give us a review
(38:05):
and good rating. If you like what we do, your
support is always cherished. Until next time, ah Loha. Facing
(38:25):
Evil is a production of I Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Pecarero and a Vettel.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of I Heart Radio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk,
Donald Albright and Paine Lindsay our executive producers on behalf
of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is
(38:50):
Claudia Dafrico. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find
us on social media or email us at Facing Evil
pot at tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio or Tenderfoot TV, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
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