209.5: My Happy Accident With John C. McGinley

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I said, there's no way, no way I could get
without falling down that rap. All right, no way, but
Donald singing. You may know if you're an avid listener
of Fake Doctor's Real Friends, that Donald and I are
big fans of a song of five moment um. We
we sang, he's driving in your window, He's climbing in

(00:21):
your window, Nas nat Janio, pull up? How did you kids?
How'd you wife? Well, we are a sucker for a
song of five moments? And I sent Donald what is
probably the greatest song of the summer. Oh my gosh,
it's it's it's my new bop. Dan. You're gonna have
to edit this in sounding better than I have it,
but I have to play this for you. And I
gotta give a shout out to these guys. Oh they're

(00:43):
called the Gregory Brothers. You guys. You can find them
on on Twitter at Gregory Brothers and they ad I
just want to say I didn't know. First of all,
I had no idea that Donald Trump was a poet.
Because he's a poet. He rhymes in his beaches. And
I didn't even know. Listen, Donald and I have been
talking about back and forth sometimes with you, sometimes privately

(01:06):
on our phone about what are our favorite songs of summer.
We've been talking about t Swift. We've been you know,
we played you Toby Sebastian last episode. But listen, this
is the song of the summer. You guys, and Donald
and I haven't singing into each other. Okay, Now, for
those who don't know, Donald Trump had trouble making it
down a ramp. And you know, I don't fault the guy.
I mean, I fought them for lots of things, but

(01:26):
you know, he's in his seventies. There was no banister.
But then he had to go brag about it. Okay,
he had to go brag about it, and these guys
song afide the bragging. So here you go. Here's the
song of something. There's no yeah, hey, general, no wait

(01:50):
for the hue. It was said there's no way fired,
because no way fired. Whatever we get here we go.

(02:13):
But I feet short I do. That's the five favorite
i'd ram I've been. Oh my god, I love that song.

(02:34):
I ran that's my favorite hook right there, I ran
down the rip. I fucking fucking DJ Collie couldn't write
that hook another one. He would, but he would, you know,
he heard that like all of us did, and was like,
damn that I never heard a song of five songs
that I wanted a full song too. That's only a

(02:55):
minute long. I want the whole fucking song. I'm dead
do it. No way, no way, I could wait, I
could get ram without falling on my ass. There's no way.
And then he goes, I read, I've read down the ram.

(03:19):
So congrats to those Gregory brothers. That's a that's a
that's a bop. As the kids say, Bob, dude, that
is a bob. How are you man? Oh man? I
read everyone's gonna be singing that. You know what everybody's
singing other than that song? What you're trying to get
into a day shown? It is a ring tone. It's

(03:40):
a ring tone, Joel, Is it officially available for everybody?
It should be by the time this error is it
should officially be available those of you who are clamoring,
clamoring for the hottest ring tone of summer, the Adao
Shoon song. Look at your beard? You that is a
big beard. I committed to it. You look great. It

(04:02):
looks thick and it's very Yeah, I got hair on
my face, like to run her fingers through it. Me
and Casey don't be you know, listen, man, we don't
like to kiss and tell. Okay, so well you have
to tell me what you did sexually, but you can
tell me if she ran her fingers through it. I'm
not asking you if she fucking lets you spanker, But
did you appropriate? I'm read. No, we're family, Casey, Casey

(04:32):
lets me know things. No she doesn't, she does, she does.
My wife tells you shit word. No, no, you know
she doesn't. But but you know, when we're together, when
we're together as as as couples, we sometimes speak openly. Right.
It's crazy, man, with this whole quarantine thing going. We
see each other every day, right, all day, all day. Um,

(04:54):
I love my wife tremendously. But once we put the
kids down, we kind of separate a little bit it
and we go on our own rooms and she watches
her date Lines and you know, I watched my Uh,
it's just like this episode that we're going to talk about. Well,
this episode is you fall asleep. Judy wants romance, Carlo
wants romance, and she wants some sex. You fall asleep

(05:15):
during the Jefferson's theme song, Yeah but yeah, but that's
after we have sex. Though, first of all, I don't know.
So it's the joke that you only lasted the length
of the theme song of the Jeffersons. No, he didn't
even last the length of the theme song. It was like, well,
here we're moving on. He probably got beans on Friday
in the kitchen, the beans on, burn on the girl.

(05:35):
He probably got to that, yeah, and then he finished.
And he's like, took a whole lot of tree because
you're right, because now we know you finished in the
first couple of lyrics, because by the time we get
to sky Hi, Hi, the camera til you're asleep, right,
So you needed time to at least clean yourself up.

(05:59):
Took a whole a lot of two. Right. Yeah, Now
let's assume you finished the time. Now we up in
the big Now you're cleaning yourself out, turn it back up.
We living, it's you and the baby. No, No, I
think he might have lasted longer. I think he might
have lasted longer because if you back time it, you

(06:21):
hadn't you only need about a few a few words
to get cuddly and fall asleep. So it took a
whole lot of two and find a later spot for
your ejaculation. Now we up in the big mee. Get
my turn at back. No, no, I think it came at.
Ain't nothing wrong with that, get my turn it back alone.

(06:44):
We living. It's you and me, baby, It ain't nothing
wrong with that. We're moving. Oh no, that's probably how
it timed out. Yeah, that's probably how it timed out. Well,
welcome to fake Doctor's real friends. We have John he
see McGinley here today for a very very very good episode.
I just watched it. It's really good. Yeah, I watched

(07:04):
it also just now, I watched it, and I don't
think I need a first of all, before we get
six seven eight stories about show we made about a
bunch of docks and nervous, and Jan said, he's the stories.

(07:26):
So get around you here, yeat around you here with
oh hello there, bitch, thunderous applause, thunderous applause. Damn Donald,
turn your key. I look at you, Look at how

(07:49):
are you, sir? You're back in your echo room. You're
back in your echoe room, Johnny. I know because Nicole
has a migraine. She's upstairs and when she gets some
their blackout and so oh no, that's yeah, it's the
worst thing on the planet. But I am down here
and I'm really sorry that that that we have the echo,

(08:09):
but I can't go up there. Well, listen, the audience
is so fucking excited whenever you come on. I think
they will they will handle an echo because all we
get on our on our social media is when is
Johnny c McGinley coming back on your everybody's favorite guests.
Everybody loves your story of your leeches attacking your your
what do you call your your man power source? Power source? Johnny,

(08:35):
I laugh on it's a latch store on to the
power source. Yes, the leach is all over his power source.
I thought the last couple of guests you've had on
were fascinating. I thought Brendan was just so interesting, and
it's always fun to listen to how geeked out you
guys get whether it was with Heather, because Jack, you
are clearly uncomfortable. Yeah, I understand that, complete dude. I

(08:58):
want the audience to know that I tried my best,
but I was I mean I grew up and she
was like she probably was a poster on my wall.
I mean she was had the fucking lock reader and
I may be forty five years old, but I was
just as giddy. Yeah, she's fine. I completely appreciate that
because when she was on the set and I was

(09:19):
very single, Um yeah I did. I no sooner even
occurred to me to approach her that way because she's
something else. Yeah, yeah, she's out of it. But there
you were, dude, there you were having a sex scenes
with with a goddess, with a living goddess. I was
that was acting. That was I was too. That was

(09:40):
out of my weight, class man. Totally kind of like
kind of like JD hitting on gifts part of all,
there's no I'm watching this fucking episode, and um, the
idea of of JD getting Sarah Lancaster, a who plays
gift shop girl, and then b not being able to
be get a heart on for her, I just found
unreal list television. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but I call

(10:07):
bullshit on this writing. First of all, it's written by
Angela Nissel and directed by Gail Mancuso Angels. Yes, I
have to, I have to. I have to stop before
we go any further. I looked at two o nine.
You look at the wrong episode. Yeah, okay, Well, Johnny,

(10:33):
I think you guys should start over without me because
I have no idea what two ten is. I have
copious notes on two O nine, which one's two on nine?
Two nine's when you and I have my favorite team
we ever did together. When I tell you it wasn't
a favorite, it was my job at the end of
the episode, Oh I love that. Um, we how do

(10:56):
we salvage this, Johnny, because we're so excited to have
you on. Well, I know how we can salvage it
because I had an overriding angle that I wanted to
look at, and it's inspired by what you guys have
told me an Uptown Girls and some of your adventures
in New York City when you guys were in that apartment.

(11:19):
What happened between season one and season two, since I
haven't talked to you since the end of season one,
for me was that I had a C plus comedy
come out with Jason Lee and Tom Green called Stealing Harvard,
and I spent the entire hiatus and Jackie, you came

(11:41):
to visit me at Columbia doing Identity with James Mangel
and it and I would suggest to you that what
we do in our hiatuses informs what we do when
we get back in front of the lens, and that
you bring that either those asks, that's their liabilities with you,

(12:02):
and it informs the way you grow in front of
the lens. Yes, I agree, But how are you saying
that this informed when we came back together for season two?
Because what I've brought having spent those I don't know,
nine weeks with Jim mangled, you know, I'm mister verb

(12:24):
and my overwriting objective in season two was to contribute,
and then this counterintuitive thing happened where I wanted to cox.
I wanted to contribute by capitulating in front of the lens.
And I'll tell you what I mean. I was starting
to get too busy at the end of season one

(12:45):
and intoxicated with the eccentricities of all the craziness. And
what happened on Identity, which was the name of the
film that Jim directed with Johnny and Ray and Amanda,
was that everything just kept getting stripped down. Molina, all
these people just kept stripping stuff down. And it occurred

(13:07):
to me that I was bringing too much baggage in
between action and cut, and so what it decided was
that what the capitulation would be would would be that
I was going to get out of the way. And
at no point was it more on point than when
you and I were in that doctor's lounge at the

(13:27):
end of two oh nine, unfortunately, and you had been
chesty that JD had been chesty the whole episode. And
finally they get to come together and Cox lets him
off the hook. But in letting him off the hook,
there's a surrender, and that too, there's a capitulation, and

(13:48):
it's just it's the cleanest scene I can remember that
I can remember. I can't remember, you know, like Donald
and I zac you have a better memory than us,
but I can't remember all this stuff. But I agree, Johnny,
because one of the things I said when we talked
about that was the episode was so, you know, the
show is so silly and can be and and can

(14:11):
go all over the place and fantasies. But what I'm
so proud of in this show when it worked was
how we would just drop in and be straight and
and that scene with you and I uh in in
that room, to me is one of the best of
the series. And it's so it's so simple. It's probably
forty five second scene. But I think you and I
was so vulnerable, and you were so vulnerable, and and

(14:32):
and and up to this point there's been there's been
almost no maybe once or twice you give in it
Cox gives in and and and is willing to give
him some some mentorship. But this was a real first time.
I think that Cox is this vulnerable in front of him,
telling him that it's this is my job. My job
is to make sure you don't fuck up. But there's

(14:53):
also the it's a it's a combination, and you as
a filmmaker surely will appreciate this, and Donald as well.
Is that the scene starts up with this great dolly
over your shoulder and then we land on Cox and
the fucking great music Q already started when Donald jumped
off the couch to go put Rowdy on the fourth floor,

(15:14):
and it's it's under pressure with Queen and Bowie and
just everything and I can't remember. I think Larry Trilling
shot it, and everything that could come together in a
in a twenty four minute TV show came together. And
that doesn't always happen. And when it does, and it
shouldn't happen, it's impossible. The schedules impossible, and everything's is

(15:37):
working against you, and when it does, yeah, it's magic. Yeah,
it's so fun too when those moments happen in both Uh,
you know, as an actor, you you just kind of
go at it all the time, and sometimes magic happens
and sometimes it doesn't. And then there's moments both as
an actor and a director where you're watching something. I

(15:58):
remember I was directing Wish I was here and there
this great scene between Manny Patankon and Kate Hudson, and
there were supposed to be this moment where they connected
and all of a sudden that the monitors it just
I was watching them, and it just magic happened, and
Kate had a single tear just trickling down her eye,
and then instead of stopping talking, she just ad libbed

(16:21):
this extra line and she swiped her tear away kind
of like nonchalantly, like she didn't want Manny Patakon to
see the moment. And it was just one of those
moments where you're like, holy shit, like something special just happened.
That was way better than when was it? In my mind,
I feel that way about a lot of things and
scrubbs that we did, like where oftentimes it was about
comedy we were all riffing together and there'd be some

(16:43):
funny thing we'd all come up with. But then but
this is one of those moments that you're talking about
where it was like just just so much better than
what we could even imagine was on the page. But
I had to go away for the summer. And maybe Donald,
you'll know what I'm talking about with because I heard
you talk and a Heather about the film you guys did.
When you when you go away, what happens is and Donald,

(17:05):
you will appreciate this in kind of a a sports metaphor.
If you if you shoot ten thousand free throws, you
will get better at free throws. And if you stay
in front of the lens, even when you're on hiatus,
if you stay in front of the lens, you'll stop
acting and start behaving. And it's not semantics. There're two

(17:27):
different things. And especially if you have a taskmaster who's creative,
like Jim Mangold, who's not only going to keep you
in front of the lens, but it's just going to
keep stripping stuff down. And what I mean by stripping
stuff down is that actors always want to add an eccentricity.
They want to they want to add a limp or
a lisp or a or a tick or some some

(17:49):
kind of eccentricity, and Jim wanted them all out out out.
He went, a rain was a character in the story,
deal with the rain. And I always like when actors
have to deal with cold, dark and rain, because everything
goes away and they just start behaving. If it's four
o'clock in the morning, if you're shooting nights, the production

(18:13):
is added rain, it's freezing out and it's four in
the morning, everybody stops acting and they just start saying
their lines and scenes start to click because people people
want to get through the scene, like the people in
the scene. Yeah, and I remember one of these times
happened that I can't remember the episode up almost positive

(18:35):
you were pulling the trigger zact when Molly Shannon came on. Yeah,
that's Donald and I talked about that episode all the time.
It's my favorite one because my first time directing, I'm
standing across the room from her and she's lovely and
all that, but she's a comedian and I don't know
what kind of chops she has. And then she finally
tells me why she's so kookie and we find about her,

(18:58):
we find out about her loss and what the actor
once she went in and dug out was the stuff
that dreams are made of for the lens. And I
was standing there watching her, and we didn't do that.
It takes because she queshed it and she brought her
She brought her off screen life into that that wasn't

(19:18):
on the page. Where she went wasn't on the page.
You know, Johnny, I definitely agree with you about working
during your hiatus. It keeps you in a rhythm. I
feel like, I feel like toward the end of every
season when we were making the show, we would find
our rhythm and we would be all of a sudden
clicking and it was just like you said, it became

(19:41):
it was no longer about let me act the shit
out of it. Let me say to my lines, I
don't want to be here until fucking you know, midnight tonight.
Let me say my lines and let the work do
its job. Let the work make it happen. And I
think when you go away and you do another project
and you get excited again, that same thing fuels you
for when you go back to work the next year,
and now you're in a rhythm and so that energy

(20:03):
that you had at the end of the season where
you're like efficient and you're trying to make it happen
like in one take and right away because you're you know,
you're you don't want to be there late, and you
want to be looked at as a as a professional.
And when you do that all summer long, when you
come back in in the beginning, you don't have the rusties,
you don't have the I'm nervous about what I've been doing,

(20:26):
you know what I mean? You're training. It's like you
were training all summer. Yeah, no, walk getting You're right.
You walk in and you're like, look, check out my
six pack, you know what I mean. I have a
question for you guys, as both a actor and a director,
I wish as an actor I would have had more
directors push me to be better. I feel like I

(20:46):
feel like throughout my career there's been a few, but
mostly it's been about stand here, the camera's going to
come here, do you want to go again? Because maybe
you should be a little angrier as opposed to like
taking me in the corner and being like here, I
want to put a fucking thought in your head. And
I wonder, Johnny, because you you can be an intimidating fellow.

(21:06):
I wonder did Mangold was he able to to do
that to you? Did he? I mean, Oliver Stone, you've
worked with I mean, you've worked with Fincher, You've worked
with the legends of the world. Had these guys been
able to do that to you? Have they done that
to you? And I want to know your answer too.
But you know, we'll start with the Olivers Oliver school
of directing. Uh comes with consequences, and so if you

(21:30):
if you're doing something that's not is it necessarily what
Oliver had in mind? He'll yell from video village, which
is an area away from the set where the director
and the and the and the people who are producing
the film are watching it. He'll yell from video village, McGinley,
walk with me, and that just means, uh, you're going

(21:55):
to go for a walk. And then he tells you
that you're already in my vision and you're fucking me. Really,
You're like, oh god, he did it in the Philippines,
he did it it down in on Wall Street, he
did it, He does it everywhere. You're fucking me. You
were better when you always read actors for him, and

(22:16):
he goes, you were better when you were reading the actors,
but now you're fucking me, and you're like, oh my god,
oh horrifying. How do you not get it? How do
you then not spiral Johnny? Because I feel like there's
a fine line between taking you in the corner and
being and being constructive and being like, you got this, man,
but I want you to dig deep and do this
and being like, you're fucking me. I can't imagine that

(22:39):
I would be so spiraling in my head. I don't know.
I guess it all started in the Philippines and I
just wasn't gonna there was nowhere to go. We were
ten thousand miles from home, and so I guess you
got a rally. I don't fucking know. And the obviously
didn't you tell me this? Sorry, sorry, go ahead again.
The opposite of that is Catherine Bigelow on Point Break.
You know we did that opening movie, Johnny, Johnny, remember

(23:03):
when there was one of those steadicams they used to
weigh about eighty pounds, and all the big Aussie guys
used to be the operators. And in the beginning of
that film, there's about a five or six minute walk
and talk where Keano and I are doing all the
expository who what, where? When? How? For the whole movie,
we're just just stealing, stealing, I don't stop talking. And

(23:26):
and we did it thirty six times. I think she
printed like four, eighteen and thirty six, And of course
four was the one that was in the movie. And
it's just a one er and it's just scrubs. Made
it look second nature because we did those. But at
the time when we were doing it, it was a
big deal. And you know, all the way through the
bowels of the FBI with this steadicam and Catherine just

(23:52):
come over and she's a single most supportive person in
the history of the planet. But the bottom line was,
we're going again. She would never say anything, she would
never say anything. No, she's just the greatest. She's like,
you're crushing us. You're crushing us. I'm like, who, But
I always know when we have it. What about Weird
of God? What about you Donald? Like when you worked

(24:12):
with like Boas or or did did they give you
did you ever get like tough direction? But also that
like made you dig deeper? Um? Yeah, you know, uh.
Boas was was very much we're gonna rehearse. Uh, And
we would we would rehearse and he wouldn't necessarily be there,
but he would come and check it out. But he
would be like, you guys, go rehearse, you know, rehearse

(24:33):
amongst yourselves and stuff. And then when we would do
it the scene, he'd be like, Okay, yeah, that's great.
Is there anything you want to add to it? Um,
I'm trying to think of if they were. I've had directors.
I don't want to say their names. I've had directors
to be like, you know, uh, you stumbled on that line,
there goes, you're close up. I've had shit like that
before you. That's not gonna help anybody, No, it doesn't. Uh.

(24:54):
And to find a way to to to I mean,
my goal when I'm directing someone is all I want
is for you to be great? How can I support that?
Part of it for me is creating an environment on
the set. You know, Scrubs is the ultimate example. We
had an environment that was so safe to experiment and
to and to fuck up. And it was you felt

(25:15):
so safe, you felt the net under under the under
the tight rope, if you will, um, so I when
I'm making my products. I try and hate create that
environment again where where you're safe, like there's no wrong answer,
let's play, because I think that puts actors in a
good headspace. Um. But I'm also making things so fast,

(25:35):
you know, I'm every the three films I've made, I
have to go so fast. There isn't a whole lot
of time to do like what Oliver Stone can do
in the Philippines and be like Johnny Let's Walk. If
produces someone like Natalie Let's Walk, everyone looked at me like,
what the fuck are you doing? We have a half
hour left for the day. That truly is a luxury. Luxury.

(25:58):
I hear stories about actors and directors going on like
forty five minute walks while the crew waits, sometimes two
hour walks while the crew waits, and then they come
back in the scenes different. Now we're going to relight
it a different way. I've heard crazy ass stories about how,
you know, how ego gets in the way of making
movies and stuff like I've had stories from that movie

(26:20):
What's the Well. I should probably shouldn't call it what
the movie is, but I heard stories of a movie
star showing up. My friend was shooting the movie, and
he said, you wouldn't believe what was going on. Like
the movie star would show up and be like, all right, well,
we're obviously not saying any of this, so should we
go talk about it? And it's like what like? So
they would then go on like long, like a like

(26:42):
a like a minivan ride and like rewrite the day's work,
and that's how the day would start. I mean that
gives me anxiety even saying it. Have you guys ever
like this? It's happened once in my life, Zach. I
know when it's happened with you. Johnny, have you ever
been so late in any way that you've caused a day? Well,
not a day, but you caused a morning, I should say,

(27:05):
the director like, like I've been, I've been so I've been.
Not a fucking chance. We're not. Johnny's not late ever,
Johnny's early. Johnny gets scared five in the morning and
then goes back to sleep. That would never happen, right,
never happened. That happened to me. That happened to me once, Zach,
I remember when it happened to you, But it happened
mine was an alarm clock malfunction. Ahead, bullshit. But anyway,

(27:27):
I told the story in the podcast. Did I ever
tell you to Henry Winkler's story? No? Please go on. Okay.
So I was doing Clueless, the television show at the time, right,
and Henry Winkler's directing the next day. It's Sunday night.
He's directing on Monday, um, and I'm geeked about it.
But I also I'm twenty something years old and I

(27:48):
live with a bunch of dudes. Right, It's me, my buddies,
me and literally three other dudes living in the house together.
And on Sunday nights. I don't know where it was.
I think freaking like uh Joseph's or or some shit
like that was off. The club was going off, right,
and so we went out and I didn't get home
until like four in the morning, smashed and hammered, and

(28:14):
I pass out my call times at six am. I'm
doing Clueless at the time. I wake up and it's
six thirty and I'm like, oh shit, Henry Winkler's directing.
So I throw on clothes and I, you know, jet
to work. I get there, I put on my customers
all in my trailer and everything I throw on all
my shit, and as I'm throwing it on, I can

(28:37):
smell my breath and I still smell the booze on
my breath, and I'm like, oh my god, Oh my god,
this is gonna be horrible. This is gonna be horrible.
So I run out of my trailer and I'm starting
I'm jetting to set. And as I come around the corner,
were filming on the Paramount lot, and so you have
to pass through the big Paramount gates, right, So I
come running through the gate towards the set, and Henry

(28:58):
Winkler sees me, stands up and it looked like he
said to whoever the producer was or the writer was,
he was like, that's him. Yeah, that's him. Okay. He
starts walking towards me, and I'm like, oh god, oh shit,
holy shit you that was the first thing I'm thinking.
Now the fuck forget forget the cast and the crew
and everything like that. Fucking Henry Winkler, the legend that

(29:19):
he is, is about to fucking give me the business.
And I'm gonna and I'm gonna fucking eat it, right,
And so he comes up to me and I take
a deep breath to not breathe out so he can't
smell this booze on me, right, and he goes, listen,
we're not gonna do this. Okay, I don't want to.
I don't want any ship from you. Okay, we're not

(29:39):
gonna We're not gonna fucking do this. We're gonna do this.
We're gonna go over there, We're gonna do the scene. Okay,
we're gonna go over there. We're gonna do the scene.
And I could tell he wanted to freak and give
me the business, but he was like, I don't know you.
I don't want to disrespect you, and I can I'm
pretty sure you don't want to try and disrespect me
or anything like that, but come over here and give
me your best right, And it was it was just

(30:00):
like when we did the dance scene on Scrubs where
I where I'm doing um dance to poison and I
hadn't rehearsed it or anything like that, and I just
went in there and I did the dance because part
of it was because I was afraid for my life
that Bill was gonna be like, you know, that's it,
You're fired. So it was almost the same thing, like

(30:21):
I'm dancing on a table in the scene, and I
jumped off the table into a split right in rehearsal.
I do the shit because I'm so look. I the
last thing I wanted was to let down, you know,
the Fons. And then when I get over there and
I see Stacy Dash and Alsa Donovan and my boy
Sean Holland and the crew and all of these guys

(30:43):
looking at me, uh and uh, you know, giving me
the face like I can't believe you fucking let down
the Fonds. And it was like, all right, well, I'm
gonna give you guys a show. And I did. And
you know, did he ever take you aside and never
talk with you? That was talk. It was a quick
It was one of those things where it was like,
I'm gonna come off like the boss right now. And

(31:06):
the humbling thing is is that I'm over here and
I'm talking to you about this, but you know better
than this. I shouldn't have to have this conversation with you. Ever.
He didn't have to say to me, get your shit together,
But it was all in the I'm not having this
conversation with you. You're way smarter than this, you know
better than this bullshit. Let's get over here, let's do
the scene, and let's make it right. And then he

(31:28):
fucking hit a jukebox. It didn't. Let's take a break.
We'll be right back after these fine words. I lied.
I was late one time, but it had it wasn't
my fault. I was doing the Actor's the New York

(31:50):
Actor's Dream of I was. I originated the play Talk
Radio with Eric Begosian, who I brought on the scrubs
as my shrine thunders applause, I'll turn my key for
that down. And so we're down at the Public, which
has read on Lattie up Street there and I was
in it for almost two years because it was a

(32:12):
good gig. And so during that run, Oliver wrote Wall
Street and said, do you want to come down and
do Wall Street for two and a half three weeks?
And I said, well, yeah, of course, but I'm doing
I'm doing this play. And he said, I'll have you
wrapped in time and you can get up to the
Public and everything will be fine. And so I had

(32:34):
the language in my contract, but I had to be wrapped.
At seven thirty. We're down towards the war warp building
in southern the Southern Manhattan, and I had to be
wrapped at seven thirty, and I just a straight shot
up Lafayette, go in and make half hour a half hours.
You have to be at a actor's equity, which is
the actor's stage Union dictates it. You have to be

(32:56):
at the theater a half hour before the curtain. And
I like to be there. I like to do a
vocal warm up and stretch and all the I like
all that stuff. And so while we were down towards
the World Worth Building, the days we're going longer and longer.
And you know, Charlie and I we had already spent
four months in the Philippines, and now we're with Oliver
doing this big thing for I guess universal, and so

(33:20):
the days are going longer and longer. And I have
the superstition just like Blue Garrig and Wally Pip, because
a couple of years earlier, I've been covering John Tatro
and Danny Blue City. I was his understudy and the
assistant stage manager and not John was a horse. He
just never he thought it was bad luck to let
your under study go on. And so I got that

(33:41):
from John, and so I didn't want anybody going for me,
and so no matter, the clock kept ticking and I
started getting there at twenty of in quarter of and
the stage managers come up to me, he goes, you
can't do this. I'm like, listen, just look, I'm going on.
So and then later and later, and so one time

(34:03):
I got there at Places and I sprinted up to
I forgot which theater we're in at the Public, but
it was the New House or something, and I sprinted
into the dressing room. I put on my wardrobe, and
the stage managers like no, and I'm like, call the
cops because I'm going to kick the shit out of
you unless you get out of the way. And so

(34:23):
I go on and Eric let me kind of write
a piece with him where this character gets to he's
in three quarters the whole place, so he's three quarter
exposed to the audience in this precenium stage. And at
about twenty minutes into the piece, he turns around in
his chair, a pin spot hits him, and then he

(34:46):
walks down the closest you can be to the audience.
The light cue up on the board is called down
in one. I walk down in one of pinspots on
me and I do this seven minute monologue about my
relationship with Eric's character Barry shamplaining, oh my god, I
got chill, and about two minutes into it, I went up. Poof,

(35:09):
I went up because of you don't give everyone the lingo.
That means you forgot his lines. That's the actors saying.
I went up. Oliver is just yelling at us all day,
and Charlie and I have been out till I god
knows how late we're up the night before, but I
still I stood there with a pin spot on me
looking at it was a pretty tiny house, maybe three
fifty maybe three twenty five. I don't know how big

(35:30):
it was, but it was packed because Eric was all
the rage and the play was a massive hit, and
you couldn't get in. And I'm there and I co
wrote this motherfucking monologue and I can't remember anything, anything,
and I'm looking out at them, and I was crying inside.
I don't think I cried out here, but I looked

(35:50):
up at the light booth. Even though you can't see anything,
you can't see in front of you because the light's
so bright. I looked up towards the light booth and
I just nodded, and I went back to my chair,
and they called the next like que and Eric started again.
And then after the show, Eric's the biggest mention on
the planet. He just came up and he goes, you
can't don't do that anymore. Don't do that. I'm like, okay.

(36:11):
And the next night I did not go on, and
guess what, everything was fine. Yeah, it turns out that
the understudy was he was fine. He went on and
he was fine. So wait, Johnny, your monologue is roughly
seven minutes. How deep did you get into it before
you forgot your lives? Two minutes? Yeah, man, that is

(36:31):
the I have this nightmare if you're an actor. They
actually called the actor's nightmare. I have this dream where
I'm supposed to go on and I don't know my
lines at all. Or I'm supposed to go on as
an understudy for someone and I don't know my lines
at all. I have that dream all the time. It's
fine too, and now I so over prepare. Ever since then,
I so over prepare. Even if you shot me in

(36:55):
the esophagus, I'd still be able to continue and do
the lives. I don't give two ships. I don't care,
I go I have that that nightmare Zachie too, and
it just never again and it's never happened again ever.
You know, my first play was at the same theater Johnny.
First of all, I want to say quickly before I
changed to that Talk Radio is an amazing film that

(37:19):
you should all see with Johnny and Eric Wagozian and
Alec Balwin's in it, right, Yeah, And I didn't get
star fucked out of it. You know, usually if you've created,
if it's called creating the play, if you originated to play,
you're definitely not in the film, definitely. And I got
to do that. That was Albert and I did Three
in a Row because that was the film he did

(37:39):
after Wall Street. Well, that's interesting that you were wait, sorry,
that's interesting you were doing Wall Street with Oliver and
then you're in simultaneously in the play, and then Oliver
decides to direct the movie. So he must have seen
them play because you're friends with him and he came
to see you in it. Is that how it was
the genesis of it? Now? I think it was so
it was such a subvert, politically subversive about Alan Freed,

(38:02):
a talk show host. I think in Denver and Eric
had loosely based it on that that Oliver that was
right rate in his sweet spot. And we went down
to Lost Callinas, right outside of Dallas, and we shot
the whole thing in five six day weeks, and so
we're in Dallas and we didn't come up for air
for five weeks. It was the best. Wow, that's a

(38:25):
great film. I highly recommend it to everybody. But I
wanted to say my very first part out of Northwestern
was in a production to Macbeth at the Public Theater
in one of the tiny spaces, and the cast was
Alec Baldwin, Angela Bassett, Michael Shall actors. Yeah really hood
there are other Jason Butler Harner, really amazing actors. And

(38:49):
I was playing the two young roles, Fleance and young Seward,
and I had to have a broadsword duel with Alec Baldwin.
Now I had never done stage combat. I went to school,
I studied acting in filmmaking, but we never got around
to like, I never got around to taking a stage
combat course. And George C. Wolf, the director, very fancy director,
decides that my character is going to fight Alec Baldwin

(39:12):
not only with one broad sword, but he thinks would
be cool if I was an extra badass. And now
I'm gonna fight Alec Baldwin with two broadswords. Yeah, now
I've never done Alec is a scary motherfucker, and I've
never done a single bit of stage combat, and now
I'm going to do a dual broadsword stage fight with him.

(39:34):
We get their day one and for the reading, and
I've never I was fresh out of school. I think
I never met a celebrity in my life before. And
Alec Balwin sits down next to me and he goes,
who are you who? I'm Alec, who are you playing?
I go, oh, I'm playing on Fleance and I'm playing
Young Seward and he goes, oh, so I kill you twice?

(39:55):
And he did. He killed me twice. He shows a
week and I got it down. It was like but
it was scary as as fuck. And I I fought
Alec on stage. Wash was bh Barry your your combat coach.
I don't I don't recall who it was, but he
taught me well. And I was just I never rehearsed
something so much because I mean I couldn't really, I

(40:18):
could have really hurt. I mean, they're there, they will
fuck you up. They're not sharp, obviously, but they will
fuck you up. And I was so afraid that I
was gonna hurt Alec Baldwin with my tool, my two
broad swords. Hell yeah, you know what I found really
funny how quickly you forget the dialogue from shows that
you rehearsed over and over and over and over and

(40:39):
over and over and over and over again. Dude. It's like,
within a month to two months, you couldn't go up
and do that show again, you know what I mean?
You could check, you know, but you rehearsed it like
it was your life, dude life did you Donald? Did
you ever almost forget your lines when you were doing
that play you did recently? Yeah? Yeah, you know. I

(41:00):
had one thing where it was like a bunch of
math and stuff like that, and the math didn't have
to make sense, but it had to be quick, and
one night I did I didn't forget the line I misspoken.
I said, oh, excuse me in it, and then I
kept going. And then after I went, it kind of
threw the rhythm off for the show for the whole

(41:21):
night because I said one line, you know what I mean?
And and it really is a lesson when you're doing
a show, there's a rhythm to it all, you know
what I mean. And if you stick to the rhythm
every time, most likely you're gonna get a great performance.
If you find a right formula and you stick to
the rhythm every time, and you stick to the formula
every time, it's gonna be a good show, you know

(41:43):
what I mean. And just by me saying excuse me,
it kind of fucked up the rhythm and cuse all
of a sudden, we're a little bit late, and you
know what I mean, And it was my fault, you
know what I mean. And it was just because I
said excuse me. I could always tell with when we
were doing Scrubs, and especially after about twelve episodes in

(42:04):
from twelve episodes on, I could always tell whether or
not Billy had Billy Lawrence had done a pass on
Cox because he had written and I had adopted this
kind of Martinus scorsesey on Heroin syncopatient for Cox. And
I also sometimes when I was bored, I would start

(42:26):
to play with the language a little bit, which was irresponsible,
but I get bored sometimes and if Billy hadn't done
a pass, I couldn't memorize the lines because they were
written out of rhythm and Donald, I'm just borrowing from
what you said. But Billy would do a pass on Cox.
I'd be down to my rehearsal space, killing myself trying

(42:46):
to remember these disconnected fucking rants that somebody wrote, and
then I couldn't get them. And then Billy would do
a pass and something as much as Donald, you even saying,
excuse me, that was out, and then film the flow
and the rhythm and I could come in and I can.
I can do it in Latin, but until Billy did
a pass, because I get in there and I had

(43:09):
to hissy fit, and I'd say, it's Billy done a
fucking pass on this thing yet, and they're like, no,
you hadn't seen it. I'm like, well don't. I can
send it to me that happened. You'd get sent it
and memorize it, and then it would all be changed.
You must have gotten living every Monday morning. So you

(43:29):
talked to me. You must have talked to Bill eventually
even said dude, you gotta fuck you can't do that
to me. Of course I did, but Billy was spinning
as many plates as he you know, one character of
an ensemble of badass, seven or eight of you, and
you know you, you try to get Billy's attention and
you can't. Can't always do it. I would go so not.
I mean, for those of you who don't memorize for

(43:50):
a living, it's easier for some than others. But these
chunks that Johnny had to memorize in a short span
of time is really hard because he has to say
them so fast, as he did so well. But the
idea of spending a weekend memorizing that and then work
and there's a rewrite, that's shit. Yeah, that's my stomach.
Even saying that, I get a not in my stomach.

(44:11):
That's why you must have loved it when he had
no when he had no choice but to go with
what was written because we didn't have scripts, and so
he'd be like, yeoh, look, here's here's what we're gonna
say right now. And he would write it while we
were doing rehearsals and shit, and then he would hand
it to you and you'd be like, bet, no problem,
because he wrote it. It was in Cox's rhythm, and

(44:33):
that's whatever that syncopation Billy came up with. It was
in that and I could groove into it memorizations like
a muscle. Johnny, I think, and no question, and you
really had yours developed? Well, I think, you know when
I've when I've just finished a play like I did
Romeo and Romeo and Juliet when I was fresh out
of school and another one of my early roles. And
I mean basically, the second you start talking, you don't

(44:54):
stop talking for two and a half hours. And I
even think thinking about it now, I get anxious. This
many years later, this was probably too you know, nineteen
ninety eight, but um, but by the time the play
was over, that muscle was so developed I could rush it.
And I feel like, as Cox, you had to do
it so on the regular that you really just you

(45:16):
must have had it so dialed. Like now, now that
might be harder for you, because you're not memorizing monologues
every week I was doing. When I was doing Bullets
over Broadway, we were in previews. And when you're in
previews that for those of you who aren't don't know
that that means that the critics haven't come yet. You're
still working out the play. You're still the writer and

(45:37):
the rector that they're changing things all the time, and
then after opening night, then then the show is locked,
so we're in previews and Woody Allen, who wrote the plays,
in the back of the audience, and he's there and
he's when a joke doesn't work, he would he would
give it come the next day and give us a
new joke to try that night. But sometimes that was
really hard because you had the whole play memorized, and
he would just hand you a sup of paper and
he'd be like, here, just just try this tonight. And

(45:59):
you're like, try where where did And you're like reading
the paper and like scribble the handwrit like try this,
where where does it go? Like? And then he and
you'd figure it out. And then sometimes in the heat
of the adrenaline of doing a show in front of
fifteen hundred people, you'd forget. And I there was one
time I skipped the new joke you wanted me to do,
and I saw him the next day and I said, Woodie,

(46:21):
I'm really sorry. I got a little frazzled and I
didn't even try the new joke you wanted me to try,
and he goes, yeah, get you probably get a bigger
laugh if you actually say it. On stage, Johnny, will

(46:49):
you tell that story? Um, well that I love that
You told me once about Platoon where you said you
were all hanging by the pool when you realize that
you weren't going to be in the movie. So, because
the conditions in the Philippe were so tense and so fluid,
and we were in something called a triple and they
were fluid because they had just been a revolution. A

(47:09):
guy named Ferdinand Marcos had lost an election to a
woman named Korea Kino, and Marcos wouldn't leave until President Reagan,
the president at the time, gave him political asylum in Hawaii.
So that's why we were postponed. I left. I was
doing Hamlet with Kevin Klein at the public and about
a weekend of rehearsal, Oliver calls. After I'd been cast

(47:34):
in the film a year and a half earlier, and
then the money went away, and he called and he goes, McKinley,
do you want to play the fourth lead? I'm like,
who the fuck is this? It's Oliver Stone. Are you
want to go to the Philippines? And I'm like, I
would love to go to the Philippines, but I'm doing
I'm playing third guy on the left in Hamlet with
Kevin Klein over at the Public, and he goes tell

(47:56):
Joe Path that it's me. I'm like, oh, shure, I'm
to go talk to mister Pap and call him Joe.
You know. It's like the Wizard of Fuckings. And so
Rosemary Tishler, who was the casting person over at the
Public at the time and a friend of mine from NYU,
she came in and taught an audition class to us
and she want a great great women ever. And I

(48:16):
called Rosemary, I would to see her. And I said, uh,
I got offered this movie. It's in the Philippines, and
it would mean would mean me leaving rehearsal bit and
just like anybody in New York, it'd be like crossing
Johnny Friendly and on the waterfront. If she said if
you go to this film, you'll never work here again,
I would not have gone and done the film. Neither
would at any anybody in New York, because once you

(48:39):
get in that fraternity slash sat the Shakespeare Festival, that
you stay, you keep doing plays. And Rosemary said, well,
you're fine with me, but you can't have to go
see Joe. And I'm like, everybody stopped calling him Joe.
And so I go in and he was, you know,
he had a bo and he was this guy. It
was the way the back of this bucket smell. And

(49:00):
so you know, I'm knocking like I'm going to see
the Wizard and the Wizard of Oz and he goes
coming back, come in and so I go to see
mister pat and I told him my story. He goes, go,
We'll do Hamlet again when you get back. I was
just like, I'm crying even thinking about I'm so happy
they didn't prevent you from going. I would have been horrible.

(49:21):
And so I go back. I was living in the
funeral parlor at the time, one the new ur only
funeral parlor, and so I go up five stories and
I'm there. And a week or so after I removed
myself from Hamlet, there's a fucking revolution in the Philippines
because this guy Marcos won't leave. And so we get
postponed for months and months and months, and the play opens,

(49:44):
and you know, Vincent Canny calls at the most important
Hamlet on these shores. I'm sitting in the funeral parlor
going like, oh my god, I hate my life. I
hate my life. And finally we get the green light
to go because the revolution had subsided a little bit,
but not that much. And so and in the meantime,

(50:05):
this language had come out. A bunch of actors in
New York on five or six of them circulated this
language because we were going to go through this two
and a half three week boot camp, that if you
got hurt in boot camp, you'd get to do the film.
And Oliver was like, no, if you get hurt in
boot camp, you get rotated out. You can't be a
soldier with the broken arm. And so I didn't sign it,

(50:27):
and the five people who did didn't go to the Philippines,
and so I finally get there and only to come
to find out that it's a very tricky place. We're
shooting in this triple canopy jungle, which meant there was
vegetation at ten feet, another vegetation at twenty feet, and
these monstrous trees at fifty feet, so it's very dark

(50:49):
and swampy underneath these these three canopies of flora, and
we're shooting and there was no shot list because Oliver
had to change things every day and on the fly,
which he did brilliantly. But the whole there was three
squads of eight, so there was twenty four of us,
and every day but he was called to the set.

(51:09):
And some days you just sat there all day because
you're not the scene. You're not the scene, and so
it was about two hour bus ride out to the
place and then you'd sit and you weren't in the scene.
There's two hours back. And so this happened for a
couple of weeks, and so Forrest Whittaker and Johnny Depp
and I asked Oliver that if we weren't in going

(51:31):
to be shooting that day, could we stay at the
hotel and he acquiesced, and so we're finally sitting by
the pool and we got what we wanted and Forest,
I don't do a good forest invitation, but Forrest comes
over to Johnny and he goes. You would get the
feeling that while we're here, we're not in the movie.
We all started going back to the set every day

(51:54):
and Oliver would put us. Oliver would put us on
this mountain about a mile out of the rain, and
we and you weren't even a spec and you'd be
back there and we started calling it power background and
so guys were doing their best brand though a mile
up amount, and we called the Power Background. I just

(52:17):
love it. I just I just love that you guys
were like, all right, fuck this, We're not gonna sit
in the jungle. We're gonna go sit by the pool.
And then and then it's like you you, Forrest Whittaker
and Johnny Depp sitting there on your lounge on your
lounge chairs with with with a cocktail. And then all
of a sudden, someone has the realization, you know, he's
probably just improv improvising this movie, and we're sitting here
at the pools, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, and Forest first,

(52:44):
I wish I could do a first invitation, but he
was like, if we're here, win in the movie, and
he was right his rain And what a fucking amazing movie, dude.
I think it's one of the greatest movies ever made.
But I want to circle back to something that Donald
said earlier that when you said when you said you
can just trust the work and if when you stay

(53:05):
in rhythm, when when you can let the work happen.
For me, that was a big aha. When I was
with Jim Angol for the for that hiatus, it was
that I was watching all these I was watching ray
Leoda and Johnny and all that and Johnny Hawks and
all these great actors, and and I could see when
Jim was directing them. Sometimes you can see a director

(53:25):
work better when you're watching them direct nobody else. And
I was impacted by just how clean and with that affectations.
Jim wanted the style of this piece, and I was like,
that's what I'm doing. I'm going there. But in order
to do that, you have to acquiesce. You have to
you have to, like you were saying, you have to

(53:45):
trust it a little bit. And that's harder, I put
if you're in rhythm, and you can and I the
verb to capitulate kept coming up for me and in
my in my Dope composition books and Tom Actually it's
hard sometimes because somebody calls action and and the trap
just to want to drive the scene and and and

(54:07):
move the narrative forward. And like that scene with Zachi
where where we're at the at the end of two
oh nine, when when coction him at that scene, it
just sits and the lens absolutely soaks it up because
no one's trying to drive anything. You know, there's so

(54:29):
much power in being able to just put a camera.
It's interesting we're talking about going back and forth between
theater and film, because when you're in a play, you
have to give a performance to the person in the
front row, and you have to give a performance to
the person in the background, right, and and there's a
really there's a dance in being able to do that
when you're in a film and the camera can be

(54:50):
as tight on our faces as it is in that
scene an actor has to let go to in order
to do nothing, do you know what I mean? Like,
there's so much power in just trusting the words and
trusting the camera to capture you doing I would say,
if I was directing that scene Johnny that we both love,
I would say we both did almost nothing. We were

(55:12):
just that's hard, that's very hard. It's counterintuitive, but that's hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I agree, because we all want to go we all
want to go do something and have a moment, and
sometimes there's so much more power in, uh, in doing nothing.
But the style of the piece was to go do something,
and it was for Donald to just all of a

(55:33):
sudden rip off a dance that was fresh and beautiful
and It was for you to look off the thing
and have a fantasy, and then in the fantasy, you're
you're you're juggling you know stuff, you're juggling your father,
and and the impetus of the piece was to drive it.
Everyone was always for juniors, just driving stuff. Sarah was
driving stuff. And then all of a sudden, it goes

(55:56):
that's hard. Yeah, that's agile. You gotta be you gotta
be in rhythm. Sorry, I keep stealing that from you, Donald,
but you know it's true, because that's the safe place,
you know what I mean, The rhythm of it all
is the safe place. Comedy is funny when the rhythm's right.
It's not necessarily funny if you're if your timing is

(56:17):
off right. So the safe place to find everything in
comedy is within the pace of the show. Right, So
that that was one thing that would would always I
always noticed that the show always got better towards the
end of the season. Like we would come in hot

(56:37):
and be so excited, and there would be so much
stuff that we're doing in the beginning, right and all
the yeah, I'm gonna show you what I got. But
by the end of the season, that's when all of
a sudden, we're doing really good episodes. We should probably
go to break. Well, we didn't do any breaks because
this conversation was so darn interesting, Dan, I'll have to

(56:59):
put in fake breaks. I had a realization, we're gonna
call this episode, if it's right with you, Donald, a
conversation with Johnny c McGinley. I like that, and then
we'll redo uh in the next episode. We'll we'll go
do this episode because this was so interesting. I don't
think we need to try and do anything else. I
like that. I like that. I'm sorry I read I
watched the wrong wrong. No, it's a miscommunication. But dude,

(57:22):
I have a feeling everything we just talked about you
listening to you tell old stories is more interesting than
anything Donald and I were going to say about about
this episode, other than the fact that it's completely unrealistic
that j D would not be able to get stimulated
for Gift Shop Girl. That is impossibly. It's not a
believable thing for television. When that shit happened, I was like,

(57:44):
this is a television listen. I don't want to minimize.
I don't want to minimize. I don't want to minimize
erectalitis function or losing one's libido from stress. I know
that's a fact and exists. But one thing that is
not a fact is that j D would not be
able to a direction for Gift Shop Girl Sarah Lancaster,

(58:04):
who played gift Shop Girl fabulous job. Not only not
only is Sarah Lancaster very funny, but she's darn pretty.
And uh, I just I had a lot of trouble
with the scenes where JD is unable to kiss her.
I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you. And I
think Jerry Lewis always did this for himself as well

(58:26):
when he was directing all his movies. JD and his
the women that he hangs out with, Yeah, they're beautiful,
only only on TV, Johnny. I mean he's talking, Johnny,
Look who's talking? I know you just first two seasons

(58:48):
of the show. All you're doing is making out with
hot chicks. I know you're too, We're too love interest
are so far? Oh? Actually, and what's her name? That girl?
That woman who was wonderful, Ye, Kelly Williams, who was
absolutely beautiful. No, was that the one who was um
on the practice? What was her name? Yeah? Sort of

(59:08):
that was sort of her name Joel, Well, you double check.
We've spoken about her. She was really good and really pretty.
She was great. Yeah, we always say JD did way
better than that is realistic. I mean we have Amy
Smart coming up as soon as a love interest. Oh
my god, that's right. She was so she is so tasty,
tasty como wife. But we talked about We talked about

(59:31):
gift Shop Girl for like the rest of the knock out. Anyway, anyway, fine,
the way we're gonna go, We're gonna do this episode
in the separate podcast. But we have to say one
of my favorite lines is she goes, is that a
roller quarters in your pocket? Or are you just having
a good time? And he go and I pulled out
a roll of quarters, like, oh no, it's it's a
roller quarters. It's actually laundry day. Okay, I just said,

(59:55):
all right, there was one line. There was one line
that made me laugh, and I'm just gonna throw this
out there and then we can move on because we
have our guests here. But Todd goes, when you're walking
down the hall and Todd goes, hey, how's your penis?
It made me go all the way back to that
one episode where turk Uh where you think Turk is

(01:00:15):
having a problem getting it up, and Todd goes, oh,
so when I saw you this morning and I said
how's your penis? And you didn't want to talk about it?
I want to tell you a little trivia when when
that in that moment, when when when Todd says to me,
how's your penis? On the day he bangkoks me? I

(01:00:41):
remember him doing that to you? Yeah, for those of
you don't know, you guys did it to each other
every once in a while. Yeah, there were two of me.
We have to tell the audience who might not know
what Bangkok is. It's a juvenile game that men will
sometimes play with each other where they hit each other's
balls and then run away. Watch it starts off like this,

(01:01:01):
what's the capital of Thailand? That's right? Bangkok? Yes? And
then your penis gets hit and you crumble over and
the person runs away. So here's another one. Here's another one.
This was back when Mits cup Check was the GM
of the Lakers. Who's the gem of the Lakers? Mits
cup Check? And you punch him in the dick? I
wouldn't have been able to answer that anyway. But if

(01:01:22):
you look at if you look on YouTube, I think
it's the Sea. It would be the season two Gagriel
or boot Blooper reel. I think they put that on
there because it was on camera. He hit my hit
my balls and ran away and then I come remember
seeing that it was so painful. He really got me good.
He bangcocks me. Well, all right, we wait, why don't
we Why don't we go to break? Just to give
Dan one reel? Break okay, and we'll be right back

(01:01:45):
with all right, we're back. We have a guest, Michael
rat La. I'm Michael. Welcome to Welcome to the show,
ladies and gentlemen. Thunderous applause for Michael Cratchley. You a

(01:02:09):
lot of thunderous applause out lately. I really am not
going to turn the key. I'm not going to turn
my key for that one. Dan, turn your key, sir. No, No,
turn your key, sir, turn your key, sir, your key, sir.
All right, I don't I Michael better be good. I'm
gonna turn my key, all right. Thunder all right, Michael, welcome.
You have you have a special uh Johnny c McGinley episode,

(01:02:30):
So ask do you have a question for any of
the three of us. Well, I definitely have a question.
I can kind of be for all of you guys. Sure,
so um, I'm a huge Scrubs fan. It's one of
the reasons I'm actually a doctor. I went into medicine
because of Scrubs. Oh my god, wown't thank you Page, Michael.
I'm a family medicine practitioner. I actually just finished residency

(01:02:53):
like a month ago, and then I just took my
board exam like a week ago. So I'm a full
pledge doctor at this congratulate. Congratulations. Man, that's incredible, and
I just want to saund behalf underous applause, Dan thunder.
I'm gonna turn my key. I'm gonna turn my key.
But you're really abusing this Kindel. It's supposed to be
sparingly that that is deservant, okay, is that even the
right word? Deservant is not a word, but you know

(01:03:15):
what it is, Joel not In said it was deservant.
Be deserved with an ant is not a word. As
to ask the newly fucking as the newly licensed doctor,
he doesn't know he's a doctor. He's not a fucking
really eating covered deservant On the fucking Latin Latin. It's Latin,
all right, okay, Dan, Dan for for using deservant thunderous booze.

(01:03:40):
Please thunderous booze. Turn, I'm not turning. I'm not You're
gonna blow my brains out, Dan, mix this boom alright, alright, alright, Michael,
what's your question? So in my life, things that happen
in medicin or just in my general daily life kind

(01:04:02):
of remind me of episodes or certain scenes or jokes
or even fantasies from Scrubs, and they make me like
almost laugh out loud at inappropriate times. Are there anythings
from the show, whether they're jokes or fantasies or scenes
that like you experience them in real life that kind
of bring back memories and make you on the verge

(01:04:22):
of laughing. So I got one, go ahead. Johnny Billy
did an episode where I'll get the wrong but where
when when somebody makes this sound that it's it's usually
not appropriate because when you go see a doctor, all
you want the doctor to do is shrub and go yeah,

(01:04:45):
you know what, Let the in turn do it because
it's no big deal. But when the doctor goes like
this and So now when I go to the hardware
store and I'll ask for as elbow cup billing joint
for for some garden host thing, and I see the
salesman go like this, I'm like, just don't fucking don't

(01:05:08):
do that. Don't do that. Mask it. This is not
fucking leukemia. This is not the fucking cancer. This is
a host to host will enjoy it, Tuck, are you
doing this for they can do that? Is he making
a noise because he's not sure he has it? Yeah, No,
it's just it seems like, well, I don't know if

(01:05:29):
we have that in stock. It's like, well I can
call Amazon and I have it in forty eight hours
for free. You sound if your doctor doesn't, it usually
means ship you don't want you doctor doing that. And
Big Billy Billy wrote a whole Like Being r C
story about that one episode. And whenever I see a
waiter when I'll ask for crush red peppers on the

(01:05:50):
side and the go, I'm like, don't do that. There's
a jug of McCormick's crush red peppers this big back
in the kitchen. Would you like me to go show
you where it is? That's pretty good. Donald do you
have anything like that? I don't, dude. All right, that's

(01:06:13):
we're gonna go with Johnny's answer on that, Michael, do
you got another one for us? Um? So, my brother
is a huge fan as well, and he would be
very angry at me, my brother Ben, UM if I
didn't ask a question that he was trying to convince
me to use as my question when he found out
I was going to be on it. So he said
he wanted to know specifically for you, Zach. My Way

(01:06:33):
Home is his favorite episode, and he wanted to know
how much different is it to direct people that you like,
actually know compared to directing in a different situation. Um,
that's a great question. Um. I was blessed that this
cast was totally um supportive and embraced me to direct them.

(01:06:58):
I think that, you know, it's always a tricky situation. UM.
I imagine on a show when when someone finally goes, hey,
I'd like to direct us all. I mean, we're all equals,
we're all a team. And I imagine in sports playing, Uh,
even though I don't know that world, it would be
like if someone on the team was like, I'm now

(01:07:18):
going to coach, you'd be like, fuck you, Stan, you're
the forward middle or whatever that is? Um, is that
a position? Forward middle? Yeah? Sure, I'm sure. I don't know.
Maybe in high lie in like quibbit or something like
yeah and qui quid. Yeah, all right, let me use

(01:07:43):
the sports analogy further. No, Um, you know it is.
It is tricky, but but it all but the cast
if you're fucked, if if if you're cast and your
friends are like, oh god, you don't know what you're doing.
And I'm not just saying this because these two guys
are here, they universally could not be more, couldn't have
been more support if they were rooting me on. They were,
they were It's so hard to do it in five days.

(01:08:05):
And Donald, because he was being on his best behavior,
he would like be there right away. But for other
directors he would I would know my lines. He would
be like, dude, there was maybe only one episode where
I didn't know my lines and I realized I was like, look,
I can't do my boy like this every yeah. Yeah,
but from here I'm out. No matter what, I'm gonna
have my shit together, especially when he's pretty much only

(01:08:27):
when he's directing, who's recording. Oh we ain't going out
this who's who shooting the show? I'm not going out
this week. I'm gonna take my time and learning my
lines for z being. I would text Donald and be like, um,
bro um, I love you, Um this you have a
monologue from No I'd be like I would, I'd be like,
I'd be like, you know, I'd be planning the week,
you know, because on Sunday night, you're like so nervous.
It's you know, directing his hard period, but directing a

(01:08:50):
single camera TV show in five days is like so advanced,
this double block diamond. It's like you gotta do it
and do it fast. And I remember being a Sunday
night being like, oh shit, okay, are gonna warn Donald
that he needs to learn that monologue? And so I
would call him and be like our text him and
be like, dude, big monologue for you on Wednesday. You
want to start working on it now, And I'd be like,
can you please come to set right away? Like none

(01:09:10):
of this fucking bullshit. You're playing fucking whatever video game
you're playing in your room and taking twenty minutes to
come to set because remember yeah and uh, and he
would and this is what he would come right away.
But it was awesome because Johnny, you know, you know
you ask the audience can tell from the conversation we
just had. We both Donald and I look up to
him so much as an actor, and he's the kind

(01:09:30):
of person that I could go up to him and
be like, john that was awesome. But do you want
to try I had this idea, do you want to
try one where it's a little more like this? And
you know that's gonna go two ways. A guy with
a huge ego and who's an asshole is gonna be like, no,
that's good, move on, or Johnny the polar opposite, is like,
oh my god, that's fucking awesome. Let's try it. Yeah,

(01:09:51):
And that was the attitude everybody had when I directed
the show. It was awesome. They were so supportive and
uh and and I was I was so lucky. I
was so lucky, especially since Donald was the one. Okay,
I directed like seven episodes. It was like the only
time Donald ever news lines. Um, all right, all right, Michael,

(01:10:12):
thank you so much for coming on, and thank you
for becoming a doctor. I want you to know that
every life you save, we're gonna take credit for him.
I am okay with that. You're welcome. Please please be safe, Michael,
Please take care of yourself and don't make that noise
that Johnny C doesn't like when someone you have to
give somebody bad news, okay, very bad news, yes, okay,

(01:10:34):
and um and um and and don't say you know
when my doctor checks my prostate, uh he when he
pulls his finger out, he says, was that was that
as good for you as it was for me? And
I appreciate it. If you wouldn't do that, dude, you
you you know you could sue your doctor. No, I
have a very I have a doctor who prized himself

(01:10:54):
on being outrageous. And if you're not down for that,
you just shouldn't go to this doctor. Um so he
because I would. I would be a little upset if
my doctors imagine your doctor was imagine no, never mind,
there's a doctor. H never mind. Listen, I'm not We're good, Okay,
Michael's not gonna be that kind of doctor. Michael, be
safe and uh and thank you so much for coming

(01:11:14):
on the show. All right, thanks by thanks, thank you
brother Michael. Um. Wow, wow, what a show. I think
this actually turned out to be a much better episode
than it could have been because we had we had
a we had what is gonna be called I wanted
to be labeled Joel A chat with Johnny c McGinley.
I think it's nice when we show the audience the
seems a little bit, if you will, that hey, we

(01:11:37):
fuck up, and you know what, in fuck ups come
beautiful things sometimes, like like this episode. Well, yeah, you know,
it's it's not always that you get to hear the
adventures of John c McGinn By the way, I would
listen to a podcast it was just called Johnny c
McGinley tells anecdotes from his career. Yeah, because I'm gonna
be honest with you. I didn't know that you did
that you had done that many shows at the Public, man,

(01:11:59):
I didn't know that you were a big Shakespearean actor.
Uh in your younger years, have you ever thought about
going back and doing stuff like that? Now? Well, Zachy
came to see me. Thank you. Donald In uh Glengarry,
we did a revival um a couple of years ago
with Al Paccino and Bobby Convalli and Richard Schiff and
amazing David Harbor, amazing band. It was. It was the

(01:12:23):
single most exciting thing I've ever done, but by far.
And I think that when when you guys what I'll
pivot off of that for a second. What what you
just said about mistakes spawning um nuggets? It makes me,
it makes me go back to that when you're if

(01:12:43):
there is such a thing, and I know Donald Zach,
you'll know what I'm talking about if you can when
you're in acting shape and and you're just nimble and
you're agile cerebrally and your instincts, you're acting instincts, and
you can't fake this stuff. You're you're in acting in
shape or you're not. And the only way to be
in acting shape is to just continue to spend time

(01:13:05):
in front of the lens. That's the or continue to
do performances of a play. And when mistakes happen when
you're in acting shape, when you're just so agile, it
spawns nuggets. And one time what makes me think of
it was I decided before we went over to the
Philippines that Sarde O'Neill, which is the name of the

(01:13:27):
character I got to play, and then Tom Berenger's character Barnes,
that I was just going to do everything I could
like a like a pilot fish on a shark. I
was going to do everything I could to help to
have him facilitate me that character getting the fuck out
of Southeast Asia, and so whatever it took, and it

(01:13:49):
wasn't on the page, but I decided whatever it took,
and so I told Oliver this. He's like, yeah, do
that be a pilot fish. I love that. And so
we're at this one night at this we're assigning a
night operation, and Tony Todd's over there, and William's here,
and Mark Moses is here, and Tom Barringer's next to me,

(01:14:11):
and I got this zippo, and I because Tom's character
smoked a lot, and I always was going to do
this no no look Magic Johnson light of his cigarette
and then act like it was no big fucking deal.
I was just gonna throw a no look. And I
saw out of my periphery, Tom was pulling a cigarette out,

(01:14:32):
and I did a no look light and I snapped
that zippo back and I put it back in my thing,
and I could see everyone in the whole scene stopped
and they were looking at me like I was the
biggest dick on the planet. And I careful, got nervous
telling the story. I carefully looked over at Tom and
I missed the light and I took the thing like
a full back out and I lit that cigarette and

(01:14:53):
the scene continued. And that's what's in the movie, because
it's there's no me horrified and William looking at me
like that's such a dick, and Tony Todd looking at
me like him and I love it all in the movie.
That's fucking dope, dude, because that's but that's who that
character was in that movie too. Yeah, but it's also

(01:15:15):
my point is that I'll go third person that the
actor playing Sardin O'Neil didn't all of a sudden call
cat or walk out of the scene or fix it. Yeah,
just fix it. Yeah, and then and then and then
a great director like that's gonna go that's fucking real,
I'm putting on the movie. Yeah, and it's it's maybe
a thountains of a second. But but if if in

(01:15:37):
when you ever watch it again, you'll you'll see it.
It's a fuck up, and Oliver kept it in and
it's genius. It probably gets big laughs in the movie
too when it happens. It's probably yea, because it's exposes
just what a pilot fish this guy is. Yeah, yeah,
this has been awesome. I want to remind the audience
that the play Johnny's talking about is a movie that

(01:15:59):
is one of my favorite films. And if you haven't
seen Glen Garry Glenn Ross, I think it's a masterclass
in acting. And uh, we always recommend films to you
on this podcast, but you should start with Glen Garry
Glenn Ross. Very different than the play though. The film
is very casual and it kind of unfolds on a

(01:16:20):
rainy night. And the play David wrote the whole thing
as a one act, he told me, but then he
found out one act can't win Tony's. He split it
up in the two act. But the first act is
about thirty two minutes and you're out having a cigarette
outside the show Feld. And then the second act obviously
the realist, obviously the real estate gets office gets robbed,

(01:16:41):
and that's the second act. But the first act is
all of thirty two minutes. It's an incredible piece of right.
I want to tell you my my only David Mammott experience.
Actually there's been two. I'm gonna tell you both of
them first time. First of all, I love the movies,
one of my favorite films, and I'd never seen the
play performed. Now, I did know the trivia that Alec
Baldwin has a legendary monologue in the movie that, uh,

(01:17:05):
that is fucking incredible, but it's not in the play.
So I see David Mammott backstage somewhere, and I'm so nervous,
and I go, oh my god, what am I gonna
say to David? Ma'm I'm having a Donald phaze on
him when we talked Johnny off And on the podcast
about how Donald gets nervous around celebrities and always embarrassed himself.
So I'm what am I gonna say to David Mammett?

(01:17:26):
I don't know what to say to David Mammott and
uh and I and I think, oh, okay, I got
an idea. I got an idea. And um, I walk
up to him. This is this is long before you're
the revival you did. It was a different revival that
was coming, it was coming up. This is how long
ago it was. And I said, um, mister Mammott, I
just wanted to know, um, and the revival you're doing?
Are you gonna are you gonna put the monologue that

(01:17:47):
you added for for Alec Baldwin into the play, And
he looked at me like I just shit in his
fucking coffee, like such distaste, and he's like, why would
I do that. That's from the movie. I'm not gonna
put that in my play. And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep.

(01:18:08):
I agree. Good choice on that, mister Mammott. I'm gonna
go away now. Um, do you want to know? You
want to know? You want to know another layer to
that story? Yeah, I asked. I didn't ask him. David
told me that before they greenlit the movie, whoever produced it,

(01:18:30):
whichever studio was, said, Uh, we need we need a
special effect. We need something to happen, and you need
a car crash, we need something in the first act,
open it up, as they said, the special effect was
Alex monologue. Yeah, that's how explosive, that's how great Alec was.
And the writing was in that because in the play

(01:18:50):
he's an unseen off stage fret, but we never see
him or hear him. But I mean he's referenced constantly. Alex,
in my opinion, very underrated actor. Are you people, I
was about to say, listen, I agreed that I don't
know that he's under I think he was underrated, dude,
people think he's I think he's one of the best

(01:19:11):
actors out there. I'm just saying that he's famous, and
people's famous. He's famous, and he gets a lot of
shit for his tabloid adventures and and and his politics whatever.
But fucking the guy's a really good actor. And that
monologue is one of the greatest moments every coffees for closers.
Holy shit. And then my second my girlfriend and I

(01:19:34):
were were staying in a hotel in London and and
he came in. He was doing a play in London recently.
Um for God Malkovich was the star of it, I believe,
and uh right, And we were alone. It was late
night and we were alone in this little bar lobby area.
It was like it was like they called this thing,
and they have this thing in England that that works
there but would never work here, called an honor bar.

(01:19:55):
So it's just an area of a hotel with the
with the where you just take whatever and you write
down on the pad what you're taking. I don't think
that would work and at least it wouldn't work in
la but would not it would not work at Joseph's.
You're right, I don't think it would work anywhere. Can
you imagine? But anyway in London you write down like
I had one vodka soda and then they charged to

(01:20:17):
your room. So we're sitting there, my girlfriend, I are
alone in the Honor Bar, and in walks David Mammott
and it's just the three of us. And I goes
and then my head, I'm going in my head, I'm like,
oh my god, don't fuck up this time. Don't fuck
up this time. Don't mention Glen Garring Lyn Ross. Don't
be an asshole and mentioned Glen Garing lyn Ross. The
guy just wants to get a drink and go to

(01:20:39):
his room. Well, I had had a few and and
I see mister Pannett. Oh my god, I'm so glad
to see you. My name is Zach, this is Florence.
So you want to join us? And he goes, okay, okay, sure, sure.
I could tell he was stressed. He'd had a night
of probably rehearsals, a pre views, whatever. He makes himself

(01:21:01):
a drink, he sits down. There's like a long pause,
and I go, I just have to tell you and
Glen Garry Glen Ross, and I started going off on
this Glen Garry, Yeah, I'm Bean. Donald. I go off
in this long Glen Garry Glen Ross spiel about how
amazing it isn't dada dada da, And he just kind
of nods his head. He goes, Okay, well, I'm gonna
I'm gonna head to bed. It was nice talking to you, guys,
said he left, Oh, and he left, he just left.

(01:21:24):
Those are those moment. Those are one of those moments
where you wish you could talk about sports. Sec. I
know the guy didn't want to talk about Glen Gary.
The guy can't leave his fucking room without talking about
Glen Garry, Glen Ross. You think he wants that. He
came in to have one drink, and I could have
been like, you know, are you a Bears fan? Yeah?
I could have said, do you play middle forward? Do
you like Chelsea or United? Yeah? I could say. I

(01:21:46):
could say, is deservant a word? You're a good writer, sir,
Is deservant a word? He wasn't deservant of the attention.
You know what? I agree with you? Donald, I agree
with you that that that genius writer was not deservant
of my affection. All right, we should end this fucking

(01:22:07):
show because the audience is deservant of a break. Thank
you for listening, everybody. This was so fun. We're gonna
call it the Conversation with Johnny c McGinley, and we will.
We will be back next week too, or we will
be back. I don't know when it is. Next time
to sum up the episode, and we will talk about

(01:22:27):
Gift Shop Girl at length. Gift Shop Girl does a
lip bite, by the way, made famous first by Elsa
Silverstone and Clueless, and I'm a fan of the lip bite,
I must say. But more on that next time. What Donald,
do you have a comment on the lip bite? I
was just gonna say I was. I was a huge
fan of you being alone in a tub with Rowdy

(01:22:48):
one of my favorite gifts. It's my favorite gift of myself.
And then that turning into you alone in a tub
with Gift Shop Girl and Rowdy. There is no better
way to some express my my my my often inner
monologue in life, in my true, real inner inner monologue
in life, than me alone um sadly of washing a
dead dog, Donald, will you count us into our beautiful

(01:23:13):
theme song? Please? Thank you everybody for listening. Way, there's
no way, Okay, okay, let's Go's a great idea. Do
you want to do? You want to take a chance
at atu at talking up into it, because I've been
the one who's been lucky enough to do that thus far.
Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for the President of
the United States of America, Donald Trump, singing his summer Bob.

(01:23:37):
There's no way I could get down off that ram.
He said, there's no way. There's no way I can
get down that m what I'm falling on my ass,
There's no way, There's no way, general, And this was

(01:23:58):
a really really steep, no hand girl, it was like
an ice skating week. I said, there's no way, there's
no way I can make it down that ramp. What
I falling? My ask each my each I took me
little use. When I turned meat short, I rammed down

(01:24:21):
the left. I raged down ram very hands, ram down
rag number one. And the ramp was probably ten yards long.

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