Our Pal J.D. with Dr. Jonathan Doris

On today's show, Zach and Donald catch up with Dr. Jonathan Doris - the inspiration for the character JD. And because he's a doctor, we ask him A LOT of questions about Covid-19, the pandemic, and the new vaccines coming out.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Here's some stories about show we made about a bunch
of dots, and nurses said, he's the stories never yet
around you here are yeah around here? Yeah yeah, it's fire, dude,

(00:35):
that's fire, right, Ladies and gentlemen, I am wearing the onesie.
I have the prototype on. Come here, come here, case
just case you want to see my moose knuckle. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
show show showcasing your moose knuckle. Basy look, Oh my way,
let me get Donald, Let me get Donald on it?
Oh your frozen? Oh you you pulled it up. You

(00:57):
pulled it tight. It's so tiny. You seen it. You've
seen it raw, I've seen it in the bear, You've
seen it in the Yeah, Casey. Over the years, she's
definitely seen my peeple. But but I'm okay with it. Hey, Donald,
I'm okay too. Is that sound nice? Is that weird?

(01:18):
Is that weird? Now we've we've known each other a
long time and there's been alcohol and hot tubs and crazy.
Hey do you like this onesie? How sexy is this?
I love that onesie? It looks a little smaller on.
I know, I gotta tell you, I'm gonna I'm gonna
tell the fans who are listening right now, if you're
if you order this size, go a size up because

(01:39):
I am a six foot in male and this is
a large, and I'm experiencing both moose knuckle and weggie.
Yeah yeah, put on, let me get this straight. Get ahead, girl,
moose knuckle yeah and WEGGI yeah. Now I'm worried our fans.

(02:02):
We're gonna for the lucky. I don't know how many
we got, like six hundred, which is probably either a
lot or too little, but that sounds really uncomfortable. Man. Well,
I'm just telling you we're gonna put it on the
site to make sure people know. It's just I feel
this is this is not a large. This is a
medium to me. And if you nowadays, the extra largest
the large. Nowadays, man, when you go to Nike and

(02:24):
you buy a sweatsuit, do you buy the large or
do you buy the extra? Well, you know what they
do because I've been doing some online clothes shopping. That's
smart these days. They tell you what the model is wearing.
They'll be like, the model is six one and wearing
a medium or whatever. So I'm the model to tell
you that I'm six foot and slim, and a large
is too small. I wish I had an excel. So

(02:48):
this is your your announcement. We'll put that on the
site too. I guess, um, hi guys, you know what.
I gotta stay real quick. I just realized, well you
have no ego, sir, because k you seeing I made
a small penis reference and she was like, I know,
I've seen it in the bear. And instead of you
being like my pay say small, you went you were like, well, yeah,

(03:10):
there's been a lot of hot tub days, and well,
I'm a grower, not a shower. Donald I, I'm very
happy with my with my penis a fuck sake to
stop talking about your winning. Sorry, deb, deb Sorry, We're
gonna just do one or two sentences on it. Um.
But it's a grower. It's you know, like George in
in in in Seinfeld. If it's called out, he's like

(03:32):
a turtle. He tucks in for one. I'm a grower,
not a shower. You're a fucking eel that only gets bigger.
I've seen that thing like a fat baby's arm. All right, listen,
we have a new show for you tonight. Everybody. We
have a new us. Listen. We have an exciting show

(03:52):
for you. Today, We're gonna do a special episode with
the John Doris, the whole inspiration for Scrubs. He was
built college friend and he they partied together, and then
he became a very very fancy cardiologist, cardiac surgeon, I believe,
and now he is heading up. He is the doctor
Kelso of Kaiser Permanente, which is one of the biggest

(04:15):
hospitals in Los Angeles, and we got him. And my
dog has chosen this moment to play with the loud toy,
so we'll have to deal with that too. But um,
it's so thrilling. So um, I thought we talked to
him about Scrub's first and foremost, and then because he's
so smart and genius about COVID, we could ask him

(04:35):
questions about the vaccines and how that's all rolling out,
because no one knows more than this guy. So this
is a fancy guest everybody, I'm really excited about. I'm sorry,
I have so many questions. I know. I couldn't sleep
last night. I was rehearsing and took I took notes.
Did you listen to podcast? I was listening. I did
listen to the podcast. Oh yeah, for once. Did your homework. Well,

(04:58):
I mean all right, let's just talk about okay, let's
get him in. Let's get him in, let's get it.
Let's get all right, get him in. Dan. Here he
comes there, he is. Oh my god, thunderous applause. Did
you guys have trouble sleeping last night because you were
nervous like me? I literally did? I literally did. By
the way, By the way, this is our producer Joel

(05:21):
and our editor engineer Daniel. Doctor Dan, Hi, Oh my god,
I'm so excited to see you. Are you Your new
nickname is doctor John Blues, the Blues guy, Doctor John.
Isn't there? Listen? Welcome to the program, everybody. This is uh,

(05:43):
the real j D. We called him Real j D
because the whole time he discovers because not only was
he Bill's inspo for writing the show, um, but his
name is John Doris aka j D, and he was
also our medical advisor on the show. So he is
us the perfect guest for this program. He and his

(06:03):
wife and that's right, Dolly Dolly as well. Now jo
ask you a question, how how how is Dolly? And
how are your children? Doll? Oh? Thank you? Donald. Dolly
is doing great. She uh is now teaching kids and
parents about sex and drugs and pornography. What in that

(06:24):
context is that she she started her own business called
Adolescents and she know she's a physician, she's a family physician.
But now she just saw a huge opportunity for sex education.
Uh and and sort of lifestyle education for for kids
that wasn't being met and so she's doing that now.
So is that another podcast we're gonna get her on

(06:51):
for that, We're gonna book, We're gonna book Dolly for that.
But wait, John, is that just in lair? Is that
all over the country? She'll do it anywhere? And now
that it's now that it's zoom, she does it. She
does it everywhere. So it's sort of starting a conversation
with teens about sex and is it with their parents?
Why do they do it separately? How does that work?

(07:11):
All different all different variations. She does all ages. She
does it in school, she does it with parents, she
does it in groups, in individuals. She's she's really the
brains of the operation. Well, now, if someone wanted to
what is the is there a website for that? How
do people find out about that? Yeah? Well, thank you
for ask your wife right off the bat here. Yeah, yeah,

(07:32):
it's Ado Lessons LA dot Com Ado Lessons L E
S S O N S. Pretty clever title, right, lost
you how do you? How do you spell it? A
d O L E S S O N S ADO Lessons,
some brilliant marketer, let's come up with got it now? John? Well,

(07:57):
I don't even where to begin with you, because I
have so much we want to talk. I'll sleep about vaccine,
everything that you're doing right now. Yeah, but I think
we should start at the beginning. Let's start at the
very beginning. Yes, A very good place to start, and
where we usually start with that is with your connection
with Bill Lawrence. We are he talks about this all

(08:17):
the time. Every time he's on the show. He talks
about this and brag about this. But for us, for
the listeners out there, and for Zach and I, from
your mouth, it would be great to hear that story. Yes,
And also I just want you to know we all
know Billy is a huge exaggerator, and every time you
hear I've heard stories that I was there and like
five years later, the story is nothing like what happened.

(08:39):
But it's amazing because he's a genius storyteller, but like
there's like a shred of fact left. So I've heard
that you were a big partier and you guys used
to rage in college, and then he could never imagine
the whole The catalyst for him writing Scrubs was he
couldn't imagine that this guy, his partying, puking college buddy,
was going to become a doctor. No, go, wow, yes

(09:03):
he does. Um, he is a great storyteller. The fish
gets bigger every time the story is told. But so Bill,
and by the way, can people are people seeing me?
Or no? This is all audio? Fabulous. I want the
audience to know that you look more handsome than jd
Ever did that? Well, you know that is a That

(09:27):
is a funny story that when Bill was making the
show and it was gonna happen, he said to me, well,
now I just have to find an actor who's as
pear shaped and boring as you. Oh my god, And
that was the moment you punched him in the face. Right,
all right, come on, how did you meet? How did

(09:48):
you meet? Okay, so, yes, Bill and I met when
we were seventeen. We were in college together at William
and Mary in Williamsburg. Virginia and we met as freshman.
I don't know if we were in the same we
were in different doors but then but then joined the
same fraternity. Yeah, I mean it was a very similar relationship,

(10:10):
I think to Turk and JD. Actually, which my interpretation,
I don't know if I've ever told this to Bill,
but my interpretation of his writing of that was semi
autobiographical in that not the medicine part, but the fact
that I was sort of the quiet, nerdy guy and
he was the popular, you know, sports jock. You know,

(10:34):
he's great at basketball, he's good looking, he would always
be with another woman, you know, like and I would
just sort of be his his sort of mute wingman. Right. Yeah,
But you know which, you know, who's more interesting in
the story when they tell those stories, you know who's
the more interesting person? That's right, That's right. It's not
the guy with all the attributes. It's the one that

(10:56):
nobody knows anything about, man, the quiet one, thee Right.
That's that's Bill stays true to form. He stayed true
to form. He stays true to form. He wrote this
show about you. There's not a lot of him in this.
This is truly about scrubs is truly about you. Well,
what he's saying, Donald, if I understand when correctly is
is and not something I've never heard before. Was that

(11:18):
in his opinion, there's a whole lot of Bill and Turk. Yes, yes, exactly.
I think that's awesome. I hope I did. I hope
when Bill looks at Turkey he's like, well, you can
think about it. Turkey is like a basket of handsome
basketball player with a fuckload of confidence, right right. He's
the biggest, the biggest personality in the room always right.

(11:38):
I mean, that's a that's Bill to a team, right on.
I hope I did him proud. So, um, what was
it like in college? Did you were you really the
big partyer that that he's made you out to be
over the years. I mean we were, we were pretty
you know, sophomoric. Uh and uh. And it was in
the eighties and there was a lot of there was

(12:00):
a lot of hum beer drinking. And I don't know
if he was going beer coke, but we'll just say
I think I think the subtitle when you say eighties,
it really means coke, but okay, beer, But you know,
I think that I think that you know, as the
party would go on, I'd be the guy who would

(12:22):
fall asleep, and he'd be the guy that would rage
rage all night. So I'm sure that that we started
out at the parties together, but he always closed down
the bar. He was so hammered he probably never knew
you left. He was like Jade. He was with me
the whole time. I knew i'd make it back to

(12:43):
the to the to the Pratt House because j D
would by my side. So okay, so I'm gonna fast
forward because we have so much to cover. At a
certain point, Bill becomes a successful writer. He's madspin City,
and he obviously gets this idea and inspired by you.
Tell me what that first call was like? Did he

(13:03):
did he? Did he call you and say, hey, what
do you think of this? How did that go? Yeah? So, yeah,
I was an internal medicine resident at this point, so
I had finished medical school and now I was an
internal medicine resident of Brown in Providence, Rhode Island. Shout
out to Providence, and yeah, he called and he started

(13:25):
to say, listen, you've been telling me these stories for
years now, and I'm gonna write this show about it.
You know, I think that they're really funny. And to me,
I'm thinking the stories that I told them were horrific,
Like you can't tell people those stories because they're never
going to go to the hospital. That it's crazy. But

(13:49):
you know, he's a genius at using hyperbole and a
comic genius, and he was able to capture the very
human part of every story but then make it then
make it very funny. And did you um some of
this stuff in the pilot? In particular, Bill says that
you said really happened, for example, hiding in the closet

(14:09):
for one of your first codes. Did that happen? Okay,
that needs clarity. It's one of it's Bill hyperbole, but
give some clarity. So yes, I did tell him about
the first code. And for those people who don't know
what a code is, um when someone has a life
threatening event in a hospital, they make an announcement, the

(14:32):
code blue announcement over the over the PA and and
all of the residents. If it's a if it's a
teaching hospital, we'll run there to try to save the person.
And at Brown we had it's a big place, or
four hospitals all connected with these Gerbil tubes, and so Um,

(14:53):
I was running to that first code, and I realized, like,
I'm probably going to be the first one there, and
so I totally I admit it. I admit it. I
totally stopped and like acted like my shoe needed tying,
and like I picked up this thing, and and my

(15:13):
my senior resident, came up behind me, say, I saw
you stop. You get your ass to that code. So,
because at that point, when you're an intern, you don't
know what you're doing in the beginning, right, it was
so were you still in charge of the were you
still in charge of the situation when you got there
because you're senior resident? Residents saw you do that. No,

(15:36):
I was not going to be in charge because by
the time I wasted time and acted all like I
better take my time, Um, there were already ten people
in the room. And so yeah, I I never lived
that down. My my senior resident that year never never
let me live that town. And when I told Bill
that story, he loved it, and then of course he

(15:57):
turned it into the one of the most famous scenes
in Scrubs where where you guys end up in there.
I think it was it was so great because it
I think that moment the reason it's so special. Is
it really kind of sums up what the premise of
the show was. Yes, I've been trained to be a doctor,
and yes I've done all the reading and I passed
all the tests. But I'm still a kid, and I'm

(16:19):
fucking terrified, and I want to help, but I'm scared
to help. I mean, it was the character of jd
in a nutshell, and so he hides in a closet,
and there, of course as Elliott, hiding along with him.
Now did your romance? Now was Molly, sorry, Dolly your wife?
Was she your Elliott? I mean, was that an inspiration
for Bill as well? I think probably in a way.

(16:42):
So Dolly and I can I tell you the story
of how Dolly and I met. Listen lutely, everybody wants
to know the real story. Yes, everybody wants to know this.
Dolly and I met in medical school. And in medical
school the first two years you're in a giant auditor
and I was a I was, like I said, quiet

(17:04):
nerdy guy sitting away in the back. And you guys
know Dolly, she is the life of the party. She's
always smiling, she's friends with everybody. So she was right
down in the front, and every day I would see
this gorgeous girl come in to the class, but she'd
be late, and she'd then, you know, trying to bring
her breakfast in. So I one day I brought an

(17:25):
orange and I asked the person in front of me,
can you send this down to Dolly? And of course,
because everyone knows Dolly, I had the bird's eye view
and I watched the orange go directly be line to her.
And I did that for a few days in a row.
And then the next day she brought an orange and

(17:47):
she asked the person next to her, can you send
this to John Doris? And again I had the bird's
eye view, and I watched that orange meander around the room.
Nobody knew where it was going. By that's time I
got to me it was half eaten. That's actually funny.

(18:09):
Why the fuck did that not make it right? And
so that was that's how that budding relationship started. Now,
tell us about how so once the show's up and running,
you became our medical advisor. At what point were you like,
all right, so long Brown, so long Rhode Island. Here

(18:30):
we go, la. Well, Dolly, that's a great question, Donald.
So Dolly is from LA. She grew up in LA.
She went to high school out here, and she went
to UCLA And so we met, you know, on the
east coast in New England, and we knew we were
gonna get married, and so she said, we're going back

(18:51):
to have a family in LA. She wanted to be
near her parents, and so we knew we were coming back.
And it was just arndipity that that Bill was making
this show. And he asked if if we wanted to
be involved, and of course, uh, the rest is history.
So was that too dramatic history? I'm gonna use that right.

(19:14):
Arrest is history. That's the clever end of a sentence. Now,
John m Now tell us, I mean you got people.
I'm sure we have a lot of medical people in
the medical field that listen, but obviously a lot of
layman who like us, who truly know almost nothing. Um,
how would the process go with you and Bill? Because
at times we would get scripts before you'd been there,

(19:36):
and it would say like medical jargon will go here
in parentheses. And then at times I'm sure he came
to you and said I need a thing that would
cause someone to be like this, Like, so tell us
about how you would work with Bill and the writers. Yeah, uh, Bill,
it would be exactly that that Bill would call me.
He'd say, you know, we need someone to be you know,

(19:57):
really sick, like on their death. But they can't die
because that, you know, they have to be able to
get better suddenly and have a bunch of lines out
and it can't be cancer because that's too sad and
it can't be And so I'm thinking like, okay, well,
and so I would come up with with scenarios and
occasionally i'd have to interject. I'd say, you know, Bill,

(20:19):
that that what you're doing there, that that's really too fake.
That's not really the way it would happen. And he
would sort of like, you know, pat me on the
back and say, you know, fake is funnier, and that
was sort of the end of the conversation. That's kind
of cool. A lot of it is if I could
equate it to anything you were kind of like flight

(20:41):
simulating scenarios, like you know, how you play the game,
like you play flight simulator and you fly different missions
and stuff like that you were trying or d emming
or dungeon mastering different types of ways. That that's really interesting.
I would you reconstruct or would you d construct it right? Right?

(21:03):
So it's almost I would definitely do some reverse engineering
Donald be you know, knowing what the outcome would have
to be, you know, if they were going to die
or not die, and then I would I would try
to draw from from cases from my own experience. And
as as the seasons went on, I don't know if
you guys took note of this, but as the seasons

(21:25):
went on and I became more and more specialized out
of internal medicine in the cardiology and then ultimately a
cardiac electric physiologist, the scenarios became more cardiac in they
all because I forgot all that other stuff. But I
think memory of you that that I've told in the

(21:46):
podcast before, but I want to say while you're here,
and that is so John, in addition to helping with
the writing and helping building the writers come up with
the right scenarios and all the jargon, he would also
when there were times where we had to be doing procedures,
be there and he could or Dolly would sometimes do
it when John couldn't um and this was back in
the day before smartphones, and so John would would obviously

(22:08):
need to be keeping track of his patients and uh,
and he would I remember, and there's still the facts
machine era, obviously, and I remember a PA handing John
of facts of someone's like EKG and he looked at it.
He's like, yeah, I should probably get so. I don't
mean to imply that you didn't have your patients covered

(22:30):
by other doctors, but were there time when you were
with us where you had to sort of book out
of there? There? Definitely. And you know, the way that
things happen in TV land is very different from the
the expectations of the way things that happened in every
other job situation land. Like what was his name, Franklin, Right, Franklin,

(22:55):
that's it, that's it. Franklin will call me a d.
We're gonna do our scene with the with Donald H
at noon. Can you be here at noon? Yeah, I'll
be there at eleven forty five because I like to
be prompt, and I would get there and at like
seven at night he'd be like, oh, okay, let's turn around,

(23:16):
let's start that scene with Donald, And I like, okay,
I do have to go back to the hospital after this.
So it's yeah, it's very the timing, the timing was
very different, obviously, he they you know, things happen on
the set where you have to do things one way
or another. But that was a pretty frequent Uh, I'll

(23:39):
call it a frustration. I'll call it a sentiration. Wait,
so when we were doing scrubs, you were still doing rounds. Then, yes,
when we were doing scrubs so early on in the
first five seasons, I was still a fellow. I was.
I was a cardiology fellow and a and an EP fellow,
and so I was constantly run back and forth to

(24:01):
the set from from the hospital. And it was a
frenetic life. But it was great. It was such a
great experience, and the cast and crew were all so
nice and accommodating. It was really a fun time of life.
I mean, every time I walked on the set, Zach
seemed to be riding some new motorized people mover, and

(24:24):
I'm like, Wow, what a fun job. Why the hell
aren't we using those in the hospital. Well, yeah, it
was a time I discovered that with my new money,
I really just wanted to buy different types of electric
scooters and I would ride them around. Wait before we
go to break, I just have one more question. Asked.
It was related to the question that I asked before.
On the other side of things, though, were your peers

(24:46):
giving you shit for working on something like Scrubs? Did
you ever have to hear? Were you ever not bullied?
But like you know, I mean, wouldn't they think it's badass?
At first? You know, I don't know. At first, it's
some show that you're working on, and then when it
becomes popular, all of a sudden, are you Fonzie at work? Yeah?
Were you Fronzie? Were you Fonzi at work? John? Did

(25:10):
you hit kgs and things and the things? Correct? Jo?
Did you wear did you wear a Scrubs merch down
the halls? We'll be right back. Wait, we're gonna hold
that answer and we'll be right back right after this. Okay,

(25:32):
and we're all right, John? Did you did people think
you were cool? Or did you hide it from your peers? Well?
I have to say in the beginning, you know, as
a as a fellow, there's so much work to be
done at the hospital, and every time I'd run we're
on out of there, I'd be like, hey, dude, could
you like cover this for me? Could you do that?

(25:54):
And so it started to be a little bit onerous
on my my co fellows. But then once they realized
what was happening, they were they were definitely into it.
And I had a great band of brothers as as
a fellow and you know, eventually they'd be like, all right,
we why don't you tell them about this patient? And
why don't you tell them about my this? And my
dad and I used to be this, So yeah, it

(26:16):
became it became a fun thing. Are you the one
who told Bill about the ass box? About all the
stuff that the hospitals pull out of people's asses because
they just like to put things in their assess the
human things. I think, I think that that every everyone
who has gone through medical training has has had that

(26:38):
patient with something. What's the weirdest thing to pull out
of someone's ass? Why it's okay, John, be honest, what
have you pulled out of assholes? Well? I, I mean,
I don't want to make make fun of make fun
of it. There was someone who came in saying, you know,
there's a beer bottle in my you know, got a
beer bottle got stuck? Can you get it out? And um,

(27:03):
this this I don't want to say this because people
might get like a like a forty ouncer. Everyone was
looking at the X ray and they were they were
betting on what kind of beer it was gonna be. When, guys,
this is a public service announcement. We have we have

(27:24):
we have a cardiac surgeon here, a very very very
smart man. Do not put things that aren't supposed to
go in your ass in your ass? Are there anything,
well you can you can put dildos, you know, things
that are meant a lot of things that can go
on your bottle. There's butt plugs and did bottle is
one of them? Stick with John? Is it safe to

(27:48):
say stick with penises? But plugs and dildos, you know
as a cardiac and anal beats and anto beats. Yeah,
any sex approved approved sex toys and penises. But other

(28:10):
than that might maybe not maybe not a beer bottle. Yeah. Um.
One of the best lines in Scrubs history when when
Cox sees a light bulb in someone's ass and he says,
either this guy has a light bulb of his ass
or as Colon has a great idea. Um, John, I

(28:31):
wanted to tell you, though I don't know if you
I'm sure you know this that the the AMA has
come out instead Of all the medical shows, Scrubs was
the most accurate and that must that must make you back.
You gotta feel good about that. Yeah, I have definitely
heard that from from people. And you know, I work
in Oswald has a huge number of physicians and training.

(28:52):
Uh and um. You know, as as people come through
to interview and I'll walk it down the hall, I
will hear people say, oh, that's the guy, that's the
guy from Scrubs, and over and over they will say,
this is what what why I wanted to go to
medical school because of this show. This is so accurate.

(29:14):
I've experienced every one of those things, and I think
the accuracy was most the most the thing that was
most accurate was the feeling of of of what was
going on, the emotional anxiety, the emotional roller coaster that
the residence that you guys were portraying was really the

(29:37):
thing that was the most real. Yeah. But but but
you know, people are always amazed because you know, there's
a lot of the medical shows are dramas, whereas we
were about as silly as a comedy could be. But
Bill's commitment, and I imagine it came from you as well,
was that when you play the medicine. I wanted all
to be real. I wanted to be straight, and so
we can go and have a crazy fantasy where you know,

(30:00):
the crazy shit you can imagine is happening. But when
we come back, the medicine itself is all played real
and straight. Yeah right, yeah, not necessarily, not necessarily the
circumstances of how the medicine is given, but the medicine
is always going to be on point. We're not going
to tell you a lie on you know, this would
work or this wouldn't work with you know what I mean.

(30:21):
Like even with the spinal where the guy got injured
with his spine and everything like that, and they were
doing the ice and not fusing the spine, but was
it water and freezing the spine? Was that what they
were doing right? And stuff like that. That was an
experimental thing at the time, and we had to get
that right because it was something that was that you
couldn't you can't, you can't be like and this is

(30:43):
how you healed somebody with a broken back if if
there wasn't something out there, And I feel like you
made sure every time it was like that. Yeah, And
that was a really weird way to get there. But yeah,
even more than that, I think I think back of
maybe the episode where all three of the main characters
or four main characters, sorry, I just belt, you know.

(31:05):
I want to keep that belt because I want to
know the reason I'm going to keep it is I
want everyone to know that even cardiac U. So uh
you know the episode where where all four of the
main characters have have someone who dies. Um that in
a comedy was the most dramatic and heartfelt episode on

(31:28):
on TV. Your experience, Zach with the the elderly woman
who chooses to die like that is a huge truth
in in medicine, people choose to die and it's heartbreaking
and heart wrenching for you as a physician who gets
to know them, and maybe you don't necessarily agree with
their their decision and you're trying to subtly talk them

(31:51):
out of it, but you also want to you also
want their decision to be what's driving their autonomy, so
that that that EPI episode really stands out of my
mind as what really captured it. Yeah, right, what about
the emotional connection, Like, how do you if if if
that's what it is, then how do you make it

(32:11):
the next day. If you're rooting for someone to survive
over and over and over again, you know what I mean,
how do you make it back to work again? Like
that was something that we show in Scrubs. And the
courage that all of the frontline workers have. There's courage
that all of the doctors that work in hospitals all
of that stuff. After witnessing death like that, you know,

(32:36):
how do you get up or you know, and it's
not just deathlike you know, someone passes away peacefully, sometimes
it's violently, sometimes it's kids, sometimes it's so many you know,
there's so many things. How do you process all of this?
Close your eyes, go to sleep, wake up and say, okay,
I'm gonna go and receive all of this energy again.

(33:00):
How do you do that? How do how is that?
It's that that is such a good point, Donald, It
can be taxing. Um, you know, a couple of things
come to mind. Obviously, if someone if if you can,
if you know someone's gonna die and you can help
them have a dignified death, death with dignity, that's always
enriching u as sad as it is, as you know,

(33:23):
at least they had death with dignity. I don't want
to take your podcast down, you know. Uh, no, no,
this is exactly what this is the show, This is
what we want to want, right exactly. Uh. And you
know my special part of my specialty, I specialize in
disease of sudden death, and so I have many of
my patients who die suddenly, you know, like len bias,

(33:46):
you know, those those types of diseases. Uh. And so yeah,
there is you do connect with your patients and and
it can hurt, but um, you know, you try to
give them death with dignity. If it happens violently or
suddenly or unexpectedly, it's there. It's their family, it's their
support system. Uh. That that's really having to deal with that.

(34:07):
And yeah, you know part of it is Donald. This
is where the dark humor comes from in medicine. That
that sometimes is portrayed uh um pretty well in scrubs.
That that you know, we're not making fun of people.
We're not making fun of their disease or their their

(34:28):
process that they're going through. We are, as a defense mechanism,
using this kind of dark humor to exactly what you're saying,
sort of gird ourselves against this sort of recurrent assault
on our emotions. Wow, that sounded pretty good. But no,
that was great. My god. Now you're a you're a natural. Yo.
Send that straight up to those duds that did the

(34:51):
that did the he's climbing in your windows. Send that
to them, Man, they can turn that shit into the
fiery Max John. Your specialty is the electricity in the heart,
right correct? Yeah? Etiology? Yeah? Did you ever do heart transplants? Uh?

(35:13):
In my training, I have seen some heartsmids. I never
did them physically. What I do in my state, see
exactly what you do in the They have this thing
on Reddit called explain it like I'm five, explain it.
Just explain what you do for everyone as though we're well,
will say five, as though we're twelve years old. Okay? Uh.

(35:34):
Cardiac electric physiology. I treat heart rhythm abnormalities, and sometimes
abnormal heart rhythms can be deadly, and so for those
I will use catheters in the heart to try to
redraw the electrical pathways, and if we can't, if someone's
at risk of dying, I will implant devices in their

(35:56):
heart that will rescue them if they if they have
death not deaths. So like bionic heart type. Shit, that's
a pacemaker. No pacemaker. There are pacemakers, But what I'm
talking about are what are called defibrillators. Yeah, defibrillator. So
it's like a defibrillator that like goes into your body
that you carry around with you. Wow. Is that a

(36:16):
new technology? Probably since the I mean the first implant
was probably the late eighties and it's it's gotten better ever,
saying back when you and Bill were doing blow. So
I have another question. I have a question too, But
you know, man, but I'm exciting, fucking real. I know, man,

(36:37):
but he's talking about hearts now, and I know that
I had a hard question. You do you? And how
close are we to freaking artificial hearts? Man? What the
what are you doing? Where? When is? When can I
live forever? Man? Like? When can that happen? Like like
Captain Piccard, what Star treks Nerd? Yeah? All right, John,

(37:01):
you're showing, you're showing, you're energating. But Donald wants to know.
Aren't there already artificial hearts? What are you talking about?
You know there are, but they're like but they're not
the same from what I understand, the artificial hearts that
are out now, like, are just literally like a tube
that does I don't get. I don't get why are
you answering the question for me because you ask yeah,

(37:22):
but you're like, so, as far as I know, there's
like a thing as the guy. Yeah, we do have
we do have mechanical assist devices that help very very
weak hearts um and uh that can be used us
as a bridge, that can be used as a bridge

(37:45):
until we can get a heart transplant. And I don't
know if there are any motorcycle riders listening, but thank
you for all of your hearts of Oh my god,
I gotta say this, I gotta say this, but I
gotta say this because I was gonna segue to the story.
But you did it beautifully for me. When I got
my motorcycle for the first time, I was so excited

(38:06):
and I met a heart surgeon and I was making
small talk with him because we were at a thing,
and I wanted me to say and I was curious.
I said, explain to me again. I said, like in
layman's terms, how does how does a heart transplant work?
I just don't get it, and he goes well. After
the motorcycle accident, we harvest the heart. And I was

(38:27):
like what now, and he's like, yeah, we call them
donor bikes. Is that true? Donor cycle? Yeah? Yeah, donorcycle? Now?
Is that because they're usually young, healthy men? It's usually
because the motorcycle accident kills people violently, usually by head
injury or massive internal bleeding. But the heart is fine.

(38:50):
And so then if you can get to that that person,
if there's still living, then you can take them and harvest,
harvest or organ. How do you harvest that heart? Wait?
I have a question, how do you harvest the heart?
Let's say someone's in a really bad accident but they're
still alive. Is it is it you or someone? I

(39:10):
mean maybe you're maybe not you specifically these days, but
someone has to go, hey, this isn't looking good. Would
you like to donate the heart? Yes? Yes, it's a
beautiful it's a beautiful, beautiful thing that people do. UM
I am involved with many of my patients are are

(39:31):
on the brink of heart transplant. So I do send
many patients to a heart transplant. And it's a beautiful,
beautiful thing that families are very sick people like maybe
someone who had a catastrophic motorcycle accident and we know
the ultimate outcome of that person, and that family says, yes,

(39:54):
you know, let's end it. Now take that heart and
get it to that A move, moving choice, what a
powerful choice for that family. Yes, all right, yes it's beautiful.
We should probably go to break and wait before we do,
I just want to say I have a BMW ninety
now for sale. It is a beautiful, beautiful donor cycle

(40:16):
that will be up on eBay this afternoon. Yes, Donald,
let's go to go to break and when we come
back more real. J D. Jez Louison made them on last.
Sorry sorry if you on last say we gotta get

(40:37):
it back. Now take that nipple, get it okay? Sorry,
what does that mean? Made them? We have a lot
of women who tell us they listen to the podcast
whilst breastfeeding. If we're too loud, would be the baby's unlatch. Now, JD,
we want us a pivot if it's okay to discuss
COVID because you are very impressed with your sports terminology

(41:02):
right there, I guess what did sports terminal? Playing in
the post? When you're playing in the post, you want
to be able to, you know, catch the ball, right
pivot yes, and given be another I'll give you another analogy. Donald.
If let's say we were doing a normal show and
then I call an audible and say, hey, guys, now
I want to talk about COVID. Wow. Well, no, that's

(41:26):
not that's not exactly what an audible is. An audible
would be like, all right, we have a play that's
going right now, Yeah, talking to JD about scrubs ahead right,
and oh shit, he sees the defense sees the play
that's coming. Yep, I'm seeing two thousand people die a day. Okay,

(41:47):
I need to call an audible, right, we should inform
them so we can get this touchdown? Thank you? Can
I just can I just say that, Uh, I did
play basketball with Donald once, and I don't know if
Donald remembers quite a few times I played bast Yeah,
I guess it was quite nice. So Bill, you know,
Bill's a huge, huge basketball player, huge basketball fan. He's

(42:11):
run the same basketball game for twenty five years now.
Very competitive game, I understand, very competitive games. The most
dangerous game. I saw this man get his jaw. Was
it you that got your job? Bill? Had his job dislocated? Dislocated? Yeah,
and you popped it back into place. Yeah, well, I

(42:31):
I popped many fingers back into place. Oh that's nice
if you're there. And and a nose and a nose, right,
and a nose. Listen. He is so kind, um that
he lets Yeah, he used to let me play. I
have I have since retired from basketball. Um, but he

(42:52):
would let me come and play every Tuesday, knowing that
I don't know what I'm doing. And sometimes you in
scrubs two men like you. Uh, And I was horrible.
I was horrible and everyone knows it. But he was
so kind. And then Donald would come. He would come

(43:12):
and I remember this one game, and you may not
remember this. I remember this one game that the first
time ever in history, I found myself ahead of a
breakaway and somebody threw the ball to me, which never happened.
Somebody threw the ball to me and I just closed
my eyes and I was running to the back. Threw
it up and it went in. It went in, and
everyone's like, oh, yeah, oh man, that does that breakaway?

(43:36):
And Donald, I think you said lucky. I wouldn't say that.
I did not say that. I was known to be
a dick. When we played Donald, I think I think
I lost a lot of friends. I think the reason
why I'm not working more in Hollywood right now is
because of my basketball problems. Donald Donald Donald, when he

(43:58):
was playing, would become a different person. He came like, not,
this is not a joke. This is fucking serious. Well,
he's the real deal. Like I mean, this was a
game of actual basketball player nine actual basketball players and
me and and I mean when Donna played, he was
this is he was the real deal. We all played.
I mean, we all played. We all played. I was

(44:19):
very flashy, but we all played very We all played
very competitive basketball in that thing. And all right, listen,
let's segue to Jad. Tell us what your position is
at Kaiser Permanente, because um Bill Bill said, you're the
Kelso of which which is I understand it is one
of the biggest hospitals in Los Angeles. Tell us about

(44:39):
what you do, right. So I'm at the Kaiser Los
Angeles Medical Center, which is our quaternary hospital. So this
is where all of the big specialty UH care occurs.
So it's a very big hospital, a lot of training
programs uh and I'm I'm a cardiac electricauseiologists here, but
I am also an assistant medical director for the for

(45:02):
the medical center. So yes, I have sort of transitioned
to a Kelso esque position. Okay, and are you somehow
or is that just COVID overseeing just come with our
position or are you on some special COVID team there?
So right, what comes with the position is we run
we help run our COVID command center locally. So all

(45:28):
of all of our hospitals, thirteen hospitals have have COVID
command centers because there are questions that come up, how
do we move patients from here today? Or what do
I do? I have a patient in my office, I
think they're sick, what do I do with them? And
so we have to we have to, together with with
a whole team of logistics experts, figure out how to

(45:48):
manage this surge of patients that is in some places
overwhelming the capacity of hospitals. Our currently our hospital is
is okay, but we are anti dissipating more and more patients.
So I will put it into context for you. In
Southern California, for Kaiser, you know, we had about four
weeks ago had two hundred members who were hospitalized. As

(46:11):
of yesterday, eight hundred and fifty hospitalized. So I mean
in four weeks, it's quadruple. So this is not going
away unless people take it seriously. Unless they use hand hygiene,
where face coverings avoid congregate settings, social distancing that will
help mitigate it. And we've seen that happen multiple times

(46:33):
already since this all started. Back in March. We had
a spike in March. We instituted these mitigation factors, hand
hygiene based coverings, social distancing, and we brought the number down. Right,
that's when everyone started talking about flattening the curve. Right,
that's not a term that anyone ever used before March, right,
but now everyone in the grocery store saying, we got

(46:56):
to flatten the curve. So that worked. Then the summer came,
we got a little a little complacent, we had another peak,
we reinstituted, and we again flattened the curve. And now
it's just everywhere because I think a COVID sort of
quarantine fatigue. It's out. But is it safe to say

(47:17):
that in La County it's it's pretty out of control.
Right now. It is out of control and getting worse.
The positivity rate is going up. A few months ago,
it was down around around six, six or seven percent
it's now up you know, eleven and twelve thirteen percent
positivity rate. That means the number of case, the number

(47:37):
of swabs that are being done at testing centers, more
and more and more are coming back positive. And so
that's a sign that the are not is increasing, that
is the effectivity of the of the pandemic is increasing.
And so we really have to take this seriously. If
you were in charge, John, if you were the governor, or, say,

(48:00):
if you were the mayor, Dude, let's not put him
in a situation where he has to make a decision
for the political Yeah, I don't want him to. Okay, Well,
we can give well, okay, it was just interested to
know from a doctor's point of view, if I mean,
you can answer how you want to answer, John, But
should we be in a more of a more of
a lockdown? I mean, England is fully shut down right now,

(48:22):
That's exactly that's a good question. That's that's exactly what
I was gonna say. And the way that that I
would answer that, uh, is we really do have to
take take what other successful countries have done and really
consider doing that. Look at England, right, look at Japan,
look at South Korea, they've done amazing work in in

(48:43):
limiting the spread of this disease because they have huge
capacity for testing. They locked down, they ask they keep
social distancing, and so yeah, I mean we we should
take take that in consideration. I have a question. Okay,
if they're doing such a good job, though, why is
everybody locked down again? You know what I mean? Like,

(49:06):
like we're talking about every here's Here's what I don't understand.
I can't we're supposed okay, we're supposed to. But if
we're supposed to take examples from all of these people,
all of these other places, everybody's in the same situation
now we're in I know. But bro, they the government
told I was in the United Kingdom and the government
had just told them, okay, great, um, don't need to

(49:27):
wear a mask outside anymore. Um, you know, relaxed lots
of things. And I was walking around a crowded food
market in notting Hill and the only guy wearing a
mask with hundreds of people. And so it's not their
fault necessarily. They were told by the government, all right,
we're good, no masks outside, no matter what. And then

(49:49):
it rocketed back up, right Jadie, They Yeah, I think
We're past that message now, though, I think, right aren't we.
I think America finally has come to the realization, you
know what's going to work to stop this as masks.
I think even the mask naysayers are like, all right, look,
I get it, we need to mask up. This is
getting out of control. And if they aren't, and if

(50:10):
they aren't, then there's still I can't speak for everybody,
but I feel like America's starting to come around to that.
They're not. They're not not. Even in La Dude, just
the Saddle Ranch, which is a tourist trap on Sunset Boulevard,
decided I know what we'll do. We'll just tent our
parking lot and have however many fucking people they're partying

(50:30):
that I would drive by it. I would drive by
it and I just couldn't believe it. Now finally they
close down out or diving. I think, I think, but
I don't think anybody, but that's my point. I think.
I think right now, everybody who was doubting that shit
is if not now when these numbers come out, and
hopefully I'm wrong about this and these numbers aren't high,

(50:51):
and I'm probably gonna be wrong about it. You're wrong,
but right, But when these Thanksgiving numbers come out, hopefully
everybody understands what Uh, Jady, will you tell him that
that's that that after all this text giving travel is
gonna we're gonna see a huge spike for Christmas. Oh,

(51:14):
I know that, But I'm saying, I'm saying I'm hoping
that doesn't happen. But I'm saying, can we do all
of this by just wearing mask, washing hands and social distancing?
Can that's so? Will that solve the problem? Yeah? I
mean I think something that Fauci talks about is we
tried to flatten the curve back in in March, April
and May. Uh, but we never got got down low

(51:40):
enough to then say all right, partially open would be
would be wise, Whereas in Europe they were able to
really drive it down to a very very low, very
low rate before they then before they then open things
up a little bit. Um. And So, I mean, we're
in a bad way right now. It's only getting worse,

(52:01):
but we'll we'll get through it. Uh. And I would
be remiss not to mention that we do have some
vaccines coming. Yes, that's a good sege, that's a good
pivot of two vaccines because I think the question on
it has to be on everyone's mind. When will everyone
get it? Now? As I understand it, there's a minimum
of three right JD that are that are very exciting,

(52:23):
of five Zermaderna and another one. Can you tell us
a little bit about again, please don't get smart, uh
cardiologist on us and say it in layman's terms? When
when when does the proximate rollout for this? And understanding
that seniors and frontline workers will get it first. But
I listen to a podcast the head of warp Speed

(52:44):
said that he thinks by by May we could start
reaching herd immunity, which which seemed a little bullish to
a to a novice like me, But we can you
talk to talk about vaccines for our audience? I will,
I will. It's so funny you say that. I just
want to back one second the writer in the writer's room.
As I would start to talk about some whatever medical thing,

(53:05):
I would then get into being mister medical medical ease,
and the writers would start to make fun of me,
and so then they started to like make up fake
JD words and then called and text me and say
is thrombo flemtesis a real thing. Like, Okay, let's talk
about vaccines. Yes, m we have two vaccines that are

(53:32):
being submitted for emergency use authorization. But to the FDA,
Fiser and Maderna are closest um. They are two dose vaccines,
meaning you have to get get one dose and then
three weeks later get a second booster. That might be
one negative thing about it, but but listen, it's a pandemic.

(53:56):
You're you're gonna get two shots um. Also as you
Zennica has also a two shot vaccine that's quite close
also there to getting emercies authorization. The issue is will
people take it, will the companies have the capacity to

(54:19):
make enough, and how will it be distributed? So I
think there's one more issue that you're forgetting their duck
and how does it work with people with autoimmune diseases
and stuff like that. So that's a real issue that
they're not that we haven't been discussing. But like, let's
say you have an automoimmune disease, Let's say you have HIV,
Let's say you have something like that. With taking this vaccine,

(54:42):
how will that affect your body and how will that
affect you as wrong so that's that's a great question.
And so for example, the Fiser vaccine is a novel
type of vaccine that I think you know, what Donald
is referring to is that some vaccines from the past
used live viruses as the vector to either deliver the

(55:03):
vaccine or they were live attenuated viruses of the thing
you were trying to protect against, so that it couldn't
infect you, but it was the actual virus. And so
people who were immuno compromise on chemotherapy, they couldn't take
those because their immune system wouldn't uh, could get overwhelmed.
The fires Are virus is what's called an mRNA virus.

(55:27):
I don't know if I want to get into the
keep it. So yeah, so it's a fires Are virus
is a is a novel virus that that lets the
body make the protein that are immune system then fights against.
So it doesn't make the virus. There's nothing contagious about it,

(55:48):
so it's really safe in that way. Uh and um.
But again it's it's the two shots and the thing.
The downside with one of the downsides of the Fiser
virus is that it has to be shipped and kept
very very cold and there aren't very many people, very
many companies that make these freezers that keep things at
negative ninety four degrees, so that might be one one problem.

(56:11):
The MODERNA is a similar vaccine, it doesn't have to
be kept as cold. It is also a two shot series.
And then the astros Eneka is I think people have
real hopes for for sort of the world in general.
First for certainly the third third world, because it doesn't
have to be kept cold, um, because that's that would

(56:32):
be that's a real problem for for countries that wouldn't
have access to these super freezers and electricity and you
know all of that. Uh. And so that that might
and and it's cheaper, so that might be a real
answer um. In terms of the capacity, what I have heard,
um is that Fizer said they'll have about thirty to

(56:52):
forty million doses by the end of the year. That
means by the end of this month, by the end
of December. Uh And so again it's a two shot vaccine,
so that would be enough to cover about twenty million people.
The government has come out with guidelines on who to
vaccinate first, second, third, and though, but they are not

(57:16):
mandating that. They are letting states define that, but in general,
I think what the rubric that that most states are
taking is healthcare professionals and the most at risk patients,
people over sixty five with you know, people with chronic
health issues, who are transplant patients, who are really really

(57:39):
at risk for they had outcomes related to COVID infection,
will be sort of that first wave. And it just
so happens that if you look at all healthcare professionals
in the country, UM, physicians, nurses, Elvian's m A, all
of the all of the healthcare professionals, that's about twenty

(58:00):
million people. UH and UM. Again, there was a study
unfortunately recently a question there survey that about sixty percent
of physicians said they would take it, but that means
that forty percent wouldn't UH, and only about forty percent
of nurses said that they would take it. So now

(58:22):
we have a m I have a dumb question. Wouldn't you,
as a hospital and you're an administrator, be able to
say you can't come to work without it? I understand,
I understand you can't force John Q citizen to take
a vaccine, But if you, if you're an administration, you say,
if you want to work here, as as a medical
personnel you have to be is that isn't that possible? Right? Right?

(58:42):
Making it a stipulation of employment is something that is
being discussed. Now. Again, we are a very union union
heavy states. Uh so that's that's going to be a
political that's going to be a political issue, whether you
can make it a stipulation of employment. Well, but you know,
people have questions when it comes to this. You know,

(59:02):
they're talking about how it's ninety percent effective and everything
like that, but what else is it? What else does
it do? Like I'm making a joke here, but will
my kids grow? You know what I mean? Well, you know,
they go through puberty if they take the vaccine, you
know what I mean. Like, there's a bunch of things.
I'm a forty six year old man. If I get
the vaccine, will I live to be eighty still? You

(59:23):
know what I mean? I mean not that that's not
that that's a possibility. I mean, well, I think it's good, Donald,
but you know what I mean, Like, there's so many
things that what's the long term effect when it comes
to this. Yeah, Donald brings up I think an important
thing that's an elephant in the room that we have
to address that a lot of people are understandably concerned,
not even anti vaxx or people who are just like

(59:44):
you guys sped through this thing and you made it.
And of course we we at least on this podcast
trust scientists and we but you know, you have to
be a bit naive to not go Is this okay? Yeah? No,
for sure. It's a great point. And I think that
that people have had fears of vaccines going all the

(01:00:07):
way back. Um, I will put one thing into context.
So for example that I do want to make a
pitch for getting your flu shot this year the flu vaccine,
and I'll use that as a as as an example.
So some people say the same, you know, have the
same reservation about about the flu vaccine. Um, it's a

(01:00:28):
different vaccine. I understand that, But listen, if the flu
vaccine had some weird, crazy side effects. In the last
ten years, we've given one point eight billion doses of
flu vaccine, one point eight billion doses of flu vaccine,
and we haven't seen any weird, crazy side facing. It's
a safe vaccine. It's been around for a while, so

(01:00:51):
like the science is there that it still works. This
is something that's only been around for literally two months
a month and not even a month. It's not even
out yet, right, how do we how do we trust that? Right?
You make? You make a really good point. I'm going
to get a little a little science here. So yeah,
So the flu vaccine has uh, four different strains of

(01:01:14):
proteins that are specific to four different strains of influenza virus.
It's not the virus itself, it can't give you influenza,
but those proteins are then injected into their body and
your body makes immunity to those proteins, so that when
a virus, when influenza virus goes in there, it has
that protein, your immune system can get it. That's how

(01:01:36):
standard of vaccinations work. So this is similar to that.
The visor vaccine has your body create that little piece
of protein and then your your immune system creates memory
so that if in fact a covid virus particle gets
in there, it already recognizes it and it keeps you

(01:01:56):
keeps it from overwhelming the body. So, yes, influenza vaccine
has been around for a long time. It's not exactly
the same vaccine that the same virus from nineteen eighteen pandemic. However,
it's the same idea. It's the same idea, so thanks
for bringing that up. But in terms of safety of vaccination,

(01:02:17):
we know that vaccination is safe. Yes, this is new,
so I understand everyone has has a concern of long
term safety because all you know, Visor had about forty
five thousand patients, Moderna had about thirty five thousand patients.
So yeah, it's a fairly small sample size in terms
of the world, but it's a good sample size for

(01:02:39):
a study for a vaccine study, and there had not
been any safety concerns. Really, am I correct? You're saying
something I didn't fully digest, and correct me if I'm wrong.
That it's the same concept as the flu vaccine, just
with different things because it's covid. It's the same concept, yes,

(01:03:02):
that the vaccine works in that in the flu vaccine,
we give you a piece of a protein that's on
the influenza virus, and your body recognizes that protein. Now
it has memory for that, and so when an actual
influenza gets in, it sees that protein and it attacks
the virus. The same idea for vaccination for COVID. There

(01:03:25):
are some candidate vaccines that just inject the little spike
protein into you, doing the same thing as influenza. This
new mRNA type virus, this novel type virus that MODERNA
and FISA are using, sort of take it one step,
one step back, and it says, we don't have to

(01:03:46):
wait to make, you know, get that protein. We can
have the person's body make the protein. So they inject
the little piece of what's called messenger RNA and our
own cells create that protein. Now our immune system recognizes it,
so when COVID comes in, so it's the same thing,
just one step back. That's a little sciency for people.
So sorry about okay, but now if you have an
autoimmune system, I know we kind of covered this, but

(01:04:09):
is that a dangerous situation for someone with an autoimmune
disease or someone with something that's similar to that, Right,
So that's a really good point Donald. So, say, for example,
someone is on chemotherapy and their immune system is really
quite quite weak. Sometimes they have trouble mounting a good

(01:04:31):
immune immune response in order to establish memory. In fact,
for those patients when they come and get the flu shot,
we give them an extra big dose of it so
that their body can really try to try to make it.
So we'll have to see how that works in those patients.
I do not believe that immunocompromise patients that you're talking about.

(01:04:52):
We're part of these studies, and so it's a really
really good point, Donald, because we are we're you know,
extending sort of making the assumption that is going to
work for everyone, but it might not work, say for
someone who has uncontrolled HIV and their immune system isn't working,
or on chemotherapy or something like that. All right, So JD,

(01:05:13):
let me ask you something, or as we call you,
John real JD. You know, I when I when I
went in my phone to text you to come on
the show, I noticed for the first time, and I
haven't texted you in many years, but I noticed for
the first time that you were in my phone as
John Dorian and not making a joke. I literally just
put you in my phone as John. Well. I remember

(01:05:35):
that you even truncated I don't know what season it
was that I remember you started calling me real JD
on the set or pretty early on, and then you
just truncated it to Real. It just eliminated my name entirely.
Shaw calls you real all the time. All right. So,
so last major question a couple more. MA. I'm sorry, dude,

(01:05:57):
but I just want to make sure we touched that,
like correct vitamins and stuff like that, like vitamin like
zinc and stuff like that. Are things like that effective
against this virus like zinc vitamin d uh? You know? Right,
so early on, early on Donald, you know, people were
in a panic, uh, and they were grasping at straws

(01:06:18):
and they would someone would say zinc works or chlorox works.
And our president would say shovel light and your button
not will work right and so right, and so they
really glombed onto any trying. By the way, yeah, I
have a beer bottle. I didn't use the I just
I have a small table lamp and it felt nice,

(01:06:39):
but I didn't feel it. I didn't feel it immuniti
But there have been some studies about vitamin supplements. There
have been studies of medicine medication called roomdesseverere. There have
been some some studies of some different things. Nothing has
really really come out. It's really just supportive care for
for people. Um. There there are are some ongoing studies

(01:07:01):
about monoclonal antibodies, which are a way of passive immunity,
that is, your body makes antibodies to fight viruses. Well,
the thought is, why don't we give antibodies that are
already made to people who have the virus already. That's
called using monoclonal antibodies. That's that regineron right, that's yeah, yeah, uh,

(01:07:24):
and so that's under that's under investigation as well. Yeah,
so there are there are some some things under investigation.
But the vaccine, let's cut to the chase. If I'm
a listener on this audience, and I'm not a senior
over sixty five, and I'm not an essential worker, and
I'm not a doctor, and I'm not in a nursing home, um,
I'm I'm a forty five year old. For example, You're

(01:07:47):
probably thinking, um, what when when roughly, if things go well,
when roughly might I have access to a vaccine? But
I know that I know that the head of warp
Speed said, may Ish, I wondered if you thought that
was real or two bullish? What are your thoughts? I
think that I think that that they're getting that from

(01:08:07):
from the manufacturers who were saying we can have this
many by the end of the year, we can have
this many by you know, the first quarter, and we
can have this many by the summer, uh and uh
you know by the end of twenty twenty one, they're
talking about having over a billion, over a billion UH doses.

(01:08:28):
So yeah, so I think that that he that they
are they are taking that extrapolating it to about May
is when they would initiate sort of the phase three.
So phase one or is whom we talked about. Phase
two would be essential workers, firemen, policeman, teachers, you know that,

(01:08:49):
and then the population that you were just referring to,
Zach would be sort of the last uh big population
and they would start to get the immunites around May.
That's what I heard, the same, the same, the same estimate. Okay.
One last question, if you have if you have the vaccine,

(01:09:10):
can you still spread the virus? Okay, Donald, That's a
really good question, and it's something that we don't know
exactly because the data that came back from the studies
from Fizer and Moderna said, look, we are ninety five
percent effective at preventing someone from getting sick from COVID UH,

(01:09:33):
And it did not study, it did not look at
whether someone who is vaccinated could still be an asymptomatic carrier.
How can we talk about her immunity if we can't
guarantee that this is something that can't spread after of yes, yes,
I don't. I don't have have an answer for that

(01:09:53):
because I don't think that was studied. I don't know
if everyone understands what her community is um. The idea
of heard community is once about seventy percent of a
population is resistant to a virus, then the virus has
a hard time finding its next victim, and it then

(01:10:15):
is unable to continue its infections and it's sort of
it peters out at that point. We have never had
natural herd immunity, So I know that people have heard
in the beginning of the pandemic they said, oh my god,
Sweden is going for natural immunity. They're just telling everyone
to go out and do their thing and get sick

(01:10:36):
and we'll wait for natural herd immunity. Humans have never
there's no example that I know of that humans have
achieved natural herd immunity. The only herd immunity that we've
ever ever achieved is through vaccination. So that's why smallpox
is no longer in a problem, because we created herd
immunity and it's now extincted. That just sounds like it

(01:10:57):
just sounds like the Hunger Games. Man. We're gonna go
actual herd immunity. What does that mean? What does that mean?
We're just gonna let everybody get together and the survival
of the fittest, right, right, all right, right, Lastly, JD,
I just wanted you to tell everyone that because I
had heard this, but they won't. They should hear from
a real doctor, not a fake doctor, that the vaccines
are just kind of gonna be you get which what's available, right,

(01:11:22):
because people shouldn't start to go to their doctrine like no,
I want, Maderna, I want because it's not gonna be
like that. Right, You're gonna get it at your your
righted or your Walgreens, just like you with the flu shot,
I'm told. But but you're just gonna get the one
that happens to be available. You're not gonna able to
select it. Correct. I think in general that's probably true
because we're certainly in the beginning there's going to be

(01:11:43):
such a limited number of doses. We're really going to
have to have to be careful about who is getting it,
who we're giving it to. Uh. And then eventually, if
you know, vaccinating the entire population of the world, that
is a huge undertaking. And like you said, it's gonna

(01:12:03):
be who whatever we can can up manufacture enough to
start to start giving out, and it's gonna be whatever
whatever countries can get their hands on. Nations are already bidding. Uh,
there's bidding wars for for guaranteed numbers of doses, and
so it's just whatever whatever the countries get. What month

(01:12:24):
would you guess that you and Dolly could safely, with
no concerns go to the movies? Oh, well, we're we're
being pretty careful. We're being pretty careful. Okay, let's say
a typical cautious cardiologist and his beautiful wife. Yes, when
would you When would you go to the movie theater
and be like, I have no concerns? Oh boy? Uh,

(01:12:48):
I would say fourth quarter twenty twenty one, first quarter
twenty twenty two. Oh, Donald, what about all our Blockbuster
You heard it here? First people settle into Netflix? Go ahead? Hey, uh, so,
let's say you've had COVID already. Do you still recommend

(01:13:10):
getting the getting the good question? Donald? Your best question? Fire?
You know why he's on fire? By the way, not
to not to. He finally fucking did his homework. He
did no homework for this for your interviews, and he's
ever done for anybody else. I want you to know,
it's a really excellent question that again was not studied

(01:13:31):
UH in in any of the in any of the
UH studies, because those patients had were checked to see
if they had UH, if they already have immunity or
already have antibodies in their blood, and so um, we
don't know what that is. I would suspect, you know,
I really do advocate for the flu shot. I want

(01:13:52):
every listener to go get the flu shot, even if
you think you've had the flu already. There are multiple
strains of influenza, and so like the COVID vaccine, the
influenza vaccine has protects you against four strains. And for
every year, we get a peak of influenza A and
then a peak of influenza B, and so if you've

(01:14:12):
had A, you can still get B. And so we
always tell people, even if you've had influenza, get your
flu shot every year, and this year especially, I just
want to warn everyone there is some data out of
China that coinfection does happen. If you can get your kid,
can come home from whatever they're doing, congregate whatever they're doing,

(01:14:34):
and give you influenza your job, you can get COVID,
and you can be infected together. Coinfection has a much, much,
much worse outcome than just a single infection with either one.
So we already have a vaccine for one of them.
Go get your flu shot. You just mentioned something you
talked about kids and everything like that. So we in

(01:14:55):
California kids are still allowed to meet up and go
play and stuff like that. I'm told that they don't
get sick from the virus, but they can still contract
the virus and pass it on to us. So why
are we still allowing I mean, I personally for my
kids mental health. I'm willing I get it. I'm willing

(01:15:15):
to risk all right, I could die. This is something
that's that could happen. It's very scary. I'm not gonna
lie to you. This is something that I freaking have
nightmares about often sending my kid back to school and
him or her coming home with the virus and giving
it to myself, my wife, or my other children and

(01:15:37):
one of us being the you know, the majority, not
the majority the minority in America right now that perishes
or it gets very very very very sick. So, like, one,
why is it that we're still saying, okay, let the kids.
I think it's because peace of mind and letting the

(01:15:57):
kids mental health grow and you know, sack fighting yourself
for the future and everything. You know. It's so I
believe that you you know what I mean. But we're
talking about masks and everything like that. But we're you know, yeah,
I don't know. I just we're letting the kids play sports.
We're letting the kids do all types of things. Are

(01:16:18):
we are we playing an answer? It's it's a really
it's a really great point. Uh, And I will tell you.
I just want to put it into context. And again,
influenza is a great prototype that people understand because we
we we go through an epidemic of influenza every year.
We know that kids are the super spreaders of influenza.

(01:16:40):
We know that they get it and spread it at
school and bring it home, bring it home to their families.
For some reason, and I do not know the answer why,
it is felt that maybe they are not as much
super spreaders of COVID And there are all sorts of
theories why they don't have as much ACE two receptors
or whatnot. I was gonna say, I was gonna say

(01:17:01):
it might be the AH two receptors. Yeah, but uh,
and they they tend to do well in terms and
if they do get sick, they tend not to be
the ones who have severe illness. That is not to
say that we have not had children with severe illness,
children with multiple you know, miscum multiple organ inflammatory diseases

(01:17:27):
after much like um Kawasaki's disease. It's not to say
that that all kids are immune to it, and we
know that teenagers are more like adults. So I'm a
little bit confused about our attitude towards it because we
know that teenagers get it, we know that they get sick,

(01:17:49):
and we know that they spread it, and so we
can't generalize them into the same category as quote unquote kids.
So when when what's the cutoff point that roughly that
we kids to team. Yeah, I think they talk about teenagers,
so anywhere over twelve or or or thirteen, you know,
the Fier the Fiser study studied kids over twelve, So kids,

(01:18:11):
are your kids in are your kids in school? Are
you home learning. No kids are on zoom school. Uh,
they're on lockdown. But you know, now I don't know
the right answer. I think that you bring up a
huge important point, and that is that the mental health,
the development of kids, the education of kids, the tech

(01:18:31):
inequity of kids, the food inequity in our in our society,
that some kids are really suffering. So it's a huge problem.
Thank you, thank you amen. So, but it really is
important that that there are other psychosocial advantages of kids
being back in school or back together, back congregated, and

(01:18:53):
we have to find a way. We have to find
a way to do that. Uh. And I don't have
an answer on that note. I want to thank you
so much because this, seriously, this has been incredibly informative.
We had the fun of talking about your involvement with
the show, and it was just so so helpful that
you we have someone who's so knowledgeable about about all

(01:19:16):
these things. And I really really want to thank you
for your time because I know that you're a busy man. Well,
I just want to thank you guys. You know, this
was so fun for me. I was so excited and
I really didn't sleep well last night because I was nervous,
but I love the fact that you're like heading the
COVID response Kaiser Permanente and you didn't sleep because of

(01:19:38):
coming on our stupid podcast. You know what, Joelle, we
might have to send him one of these onesies. Now, Doc,
would you wear a onesie like this? I was wondering
what is I would definitely wear that. This is an
official fake Doctor's real friends onesie, and I think that
Jowell will make sure we gift you one as if
thank you gift coming on the show. We can warn you,
but let's get him an Excel because if you if

(01:20:00):
you get a large, it's a little small duck is
you can see. I don't know if this is a
medical term, but I have a moose number. That is
not what I wanted to see today. Okay, well, I
just want to thank you guys. I always had so
much fun with you guys on the set, and this
is so great that that I was able to come

(01:20:21):
on here. I will call you any back. We'd love
to have you back. I'll come on anytime, Joel. Let's
pick an episode that um that has a has a
complicated medical thing that might confer with our podcast owner
Bill let don't want to start with that joke. It's
not funny. I can't believe she just said that. I know.
I feel like I could cry, like they're welling, but

(01:20:44):
they're not. They're not yet. I will focus on something
that has to do it, like the heart, so he
can get deep into matters of the heart, and and
and and and what do you call him? Donor cycles?
That's right. I will tell you that that Bill Bill
said to me last night. If they're being mean, just
text me and I will call in on that show.

(01:21:04):
You never mean. We love our guests, we love our fans. Hey, listeners,
we hope this was informative. This is not a political thing.
I know some of you get upset when don like
it political. This is not political. This is about keeping
everyone safe, and believe it or not, we genuinely care
about your health and you're the well being of you
and your family. And I'm just so lucky. We feel

(01:21:25):
so lucky that we had John here to impart some wisdom.
So John, we do a thing here on the podcast.
Have you ever listened to the podcast before? It's okay
if you have and you're a busy man. I listened
last night for the first time. Okay, good, So, as
you know, we count out like a count into a song,
five six seven eight, would you do us the honor
of counting out and do our into our ending song.

(01:21:47):
Wait before we get into that, I just want everybody
out there to no, I don't think we're deaf and
we don't understand that, you know, the importance of money
and the importance of the economy and everything like that.
I know we were very COVID heavy in this and
we didn't necessarily get into the other side of things
on why you know what America, what other Americans feel
like they need out there. But I will say this, John,

(01:22:13):
when we started this show, we wanted the theme song
to be like loved by everyone. So when you say
five six seven eight today, you have to come at
it with some like uh energy that you know. It
has to be real energy. It can't just be some
timid I didn't sleep last night because I was nervous

(01:22:35):
about coming on to the podcast. Energy. I gotta come
with it with. It needs the energy of nurse. Get
the fucking crash card in here now right. It needs
that means he's coding. Yeah, it needs the code blue
sprinting to your third code. It needs like the exact

(01:22:58):
it needs what you're the executive, the co executive, what
it is, chief of medicine, whatever, it needs that type
of energy, the co chief. It needs that co chief
energy when you're talking to your interns, when you're teaching
your interns. Okay, are you ready, John Fox six seven
eight type of thing though, Remember it's like DeBie Allenie

(01:23:21):
Allen rhythm, you're ready ready. Stories about Shure we made
about a bunch of doctor nurses and said he's the stories.
So YadA around you. Here are Yato around you, Here

(01:23:44):
are watch m h