November 12, 2025 • 46 mins
Welcome back to Family Therapy! Before we dive into the sessions with this Season's family, we catch up with last season's family—Jay, David, and Freddy—to see how they've been progressing. During their last sessions, we tackled issues concerning lack of confidence, adjusting to co-parenting, and personal growth.
Today, we hear about David's journey back to faith with his baptism and his new role supporting special education students. Jay shares her commitment to a healthier lifestyle and her pride in her children's achievements. Both express a strong desire to move forward by living separately, emphasizing the need for personal peace and better co-parenting.
Elliott encourages them to replace resentment with appreciation to create a better environment for their kids, even before they transition to separate living spaces. It's a heartfelt check-in that underscores their continuous effort and the slow, steady progress they are making.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome back to Family Therapy. Last season, we follow Jay, David,
and Freddie on their journey towards better understanding one another
and to heal from issues like lack of confidence, self love, abandonment,
and co parenting. It wasn't easy. There were some real
vulnerable moments and breakthroughs. They really embraced the sessions and
(00:26):
the hard lessons that came with them. They shared with
us unapologetically, and I really recommend you going back and
listening to season one whenever you have the chance, And
before our sessions begin with this family in season two,
we wanted to go back and check in on the
season one family and see how they've been doing since
(00:47):
our last group session. Two of my favorite people. It's
been a while since eachat and so how about we
start what's been better since we last visited?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Mm? Hmmm hmm, what's been better?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, what's been better?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Don't know? Nothing?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You know, it's really hard. In fact, I would argue
impossible to have a life where like everything is perfect,
So it's equally hard. I would say impossible to have
a life where nothing is going well. So if you
if you took him in and just really thought about it,
what's something that's going in a way that you're pleased with.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, I got baptized in December. That's one.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Oh that's amazing. How come why'd you do that?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I just needed a rent a reset, Like I just
started focusing on you know, there's a lot that's been
going on, and so I was like, I gotta get
closer to the big guy. I haven't been baptized. I
don't even remember. I think I was like seven to
(02:04):
eight years old. But back in November, I just you know,
it was just one of them nights. And then I
just made a decision, was like, you know what, I
think I need to get bad times. I did that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's awesome, Correst, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I've been writing. I finished writing poems and letters and
stuff like that. I had started a letter to my
sister that passed a couple of years ago, and I
finished it wonderful. And then you know, I still wrote
my own boys Christmas story, working on something else, you know.
(02:45):
I mean, I guess that's some of the good things
started in the school system in September. So I think
that's a real good thing. I might have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
What do you do in the school system.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I'm an aid with special education students and autism students.
So you know, last year was tough. Some of this
year was tough. I just feel like last month and
a half, at least last month, I was able to
take like a deep breath on some stuff like Okay,
I just feel like down inside things are starting to
(03:18):
turn around and start going in the right direction that
I wanted to go to us.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
David, those are amazing things. Thank you, Jake. What about you?
What are you please with?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I mean, I've been working out pretty consistently.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So oh night.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What kind of workouts?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Mostly weight training, but I do a little cardio. I
just go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Are you noticing any changes in your body or the
way your body performs that you're pleased with?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes and no.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean not as much difference as I would like.
But I feel stronger, So I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Very cool. Okay, what else?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
The boys are good? Just Scott straight A's has report cards.
I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's nice. What grade is he in?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Second?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
He's doing really good at football switch school, so now
he's in pre K three, He's not in daycare anymore,
so I'm happy about that. They're doing great. So I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What role do you think you're playing and them doing great?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I mean, we go over Isaiah's homework with him, and
obviously we get him to practice and support him in
his games. David does like extra training stuff with him
on the side. I think making a decision for to
switch schools was a major decision, and I think it's
(04:54):
going to really be helpful for him in the long run.
It's being present for them, you know, read into the
things like that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Excellent. Okay, So now that we're all here together for
the first time quite a bit, what are your best
hopes from talking with me?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I don't give us something. I don't.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What are you hoping you go get?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I think it's good to just wrap things up and
you know, just reconnect and see how everybody's doing and
just check in.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I agree. Let's say we have a conversation and you know,
in a little bit of time, you guys get off
the zoom, but you get off knowing that that was
useful to us. What would you need to get from
it to know it was useful.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I'm not gonna lie. I have very low expectations. I
don't think it's going to be very useful but it
is good to hear your voice.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Though, and I'm I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I'm glad everyone as well. But I'm not sure that
I see that much will be gained from it.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
But if we if something is gained from it, what
would it be like? What would the unlikely outcome be
that you'd be pleased with? Like, even if they're low expectations,
what would have to happen to exceed that?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
What would you notice wud be like, Wow, that was useful,
This difference has happened. What difference would you have to
have noticed?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't know. Maybe it's something said and I don't know.
I'm gonna be honest with you, I really don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
For well, so what if I say something like super useful?
What if I say something super enlightening? What if I
say something super amazing? How would the two of you
notice it's making a difference in your life?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean, if you said something that was super useful
and it was applied, probably won't know in a month
or a couple of weeks or whatever. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah,
Elliott did say this and I see it now, right, Yeah,
So that I take that.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay, And what kind of thing would you like to
see in a week or a couple of months, it
would be like, oh, okay, I see.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I have no idea. I had no idea, Like I said, Man,
I'm just the way things going right now. I'm taking
you know, everything one day at a time and just
keep pushing forward, concentrating on what I need to do
to make my situation better, that's all. And take care
of my kids.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How would you know your situation got better.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Because trying to take care of the small little things
that I need to take care of. That's how I
know it's getting better. That's just with me personally, Like
that's it, Like that's my that's the goal, and it's
a must. It's not like it's a want. It's like
some of this stuff has to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What's the kind of stuff David that like has to happen.
That's not a want, it's a must. Like these things
have to happen h.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
My own place, that's a must that has.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Had Where do you want that to be?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What you mean where like close proximity? You know, I
was always the number one thing is like I'm always
going to stay close to my sons. So I'm not
trying to go nowhere far or a different state or
anything like that. So I'm being a very close proximity.
So I could get to my boys and they could
(08:29):
get to me.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
What difference would it make for you? They have your
own spot, A big difference in what ways? I mean,
it would be a big difference on both of us.
You know, Jalen get her peace in her space.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I have my piece and my space, and I think
it's just helped both of us mentally, you know, and
help us move on. I think that's that's the goal.
So that's an important thing that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
All right, So if I could help everybody have their
peace and move on, David, that would be useful.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, that would definitely be useful. That's what I'm saying.
Like it could be something that you say and then
down the line, I'd be like, oh all right, yeah,
Elliott mentioned this. Okay, I'll see what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Excellent. Okay, Jay, what about you? What would you what
would you hope to be an outcome even if unlikely?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Okay, I see you have not changed, sir.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm sorry, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You get an a plus for consistency.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I'm nothing that consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, I don't know. I know what I want to
happen in my life. I don't know that this conversation
is going to help me get there.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
What do you want to have happened in your life?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I want the same thing that David has said, want
us to live separately. Then I want to have that
separation so that we can both figure out what the
next part of our life looks like without each other.
I want that really bad. I want to figure out
how to co parent when we're not living together. I
(10:19):
want I just want to move on. Like I feel
like we've been stuck in this place, in this space
for so long, and it's really draining, and I just
want that to happen so that we can move forward.
I know we've talked about in the past how to
move forward mentally and emotionally and all of that stuff
while we're still in each other's presence. I still find
(10:40):
that as a really difficult thing to do. But I
think we do our best. But it you know, it's time,
we've we've exhausted this and it's time to get to
the next page, the next chapter.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What difference would it make for you to get to
that next chapter.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Jay, it's a huge difference.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
I think that I would feel like just like a
sigh of relief, like finally, like and it's not a
matter of not caring, of not having love for him.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I do care. I do have love for him. But
I think that we've just outgrown this, you know. And
it's really hard to be somewhere you don't want to
be and feel like if you do make a decision
that is going to hurt the person that you care
about drastically. You don't want to see them hurt, but
(11:34):
you also don't want to be in that situation anymore.
So I think if we could just get to that point,
you know, I think it'd be great for both of us,
for our mental health. I think that I think we'll
grow as a person individually a lot a lot when
we're not so connected anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And do you want to grow? I do?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I do.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How would you know you were growing in a way
that was right for.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
You, Jay, I think one of the ways is I
would stop spending so much time thinking about the situation
and letting it become so burdensome to me. And I
feel like I've done the best that I can to
minimize that with the current situation. But I do think,
you know, once things change, I'll feel just less burden
(12:26):
and less and just I don't know, man, I feel
like I'll just focus on other things, like if sometimes
when things aren't right in front of you anymore, you
get to just be like, oh wow, so the elephant
is gone. Look at this side of the room, look
at that side of the room. All of these other
things exist, Like I can now focus on those things,
and that's kind of where I want to get to.
(12:46):
So I think, you know, I think that'll be a
part of it. I think I don't like being home.
And I'm not saying like David is not a bad guy.
These are the ways that I feel about the situation.
This is not about him him not being a good person.
This is not about him being some terrible guy, because
he's not that. It's just how I feel in the
(13:07):
situation is not healthy. So I don't really like being home,
and I think once we separate, I think I'll enjoy
being home more. I think I would do more to
make the house feel more like what I wanted to
feel like. So I think, you know, those the type
of things that I might be doing and thinking.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, David, what about you? What would you notice about
yourself that would tell you that that piece you would
talk about earlier was actually happening.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So I feel like in my own situation, my own
space that you know, I built a woofsa like all right, cool,
now I could go ahead and just go ahead and
start doing what I need to do. Yeah, so until
that happened, I think, you know, and this is I
(14:00):
want her to she I told her this before. She
Absolutely we both need our peace and it's not just
for ourselves, it's for our two sons. So right, you know,
me being not at peace with situations, it's not a
good thing towards my children, all three of them, even
(14:24):
though my daughter is not here. But still I feel
like and I need to be in my own environment. Yeah,
it's like you said, it's it's it's that time, you know,
time for us to move on as co parent, you know.
So my focus is that and my children, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
What would you be concentrating on instead of this?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
My kids? Okay, my children, veteran, myself moving on, you know,
staying healthy and all that good stuff, going back to school,
like all of that, like that's all all the things
I want to do and I need, and it's just
there's two things that I really need to do first,
(15:07):
so I could start doing that. And that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You said, there's two things that need to happen. One
of them is moving out.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Get a vehicle. I need a car. Those are my
two goals because it would help me with a vehicle,
will help take the burning off the jay by picking
up the boys and stuff like that. And then I
don't got to rely on her. I don't want I
don't want everything. She's been doing a lot herself for
a while, so it's it's time. And I always had
(15:36):
a car, but for the last like there's been a
year and a half, well a year and like a
couple of months, I ain't have no vehicle.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay, hey, how would the How would the boys know
that the two of you had achieved piece? We're concentrating,
we're focused. How would how would the boys know that?
Like then, I don't just mean when you move out,
I mean like if it happened, like right this minute,
if I just snap my finger and made it happen,
how would the boys know that?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I think the boys are too young to really know
me personally, like I on my rough days, like I
try to just deal with it by myself, Like I
try not to show nothing in front of them, like
I gotta go in a different room, or go in
the garage, or go take a walk, like it's been
(16:29):
some rough days. So I try to, to my best
of my ability, try to hold it together in front
of them. So I don't really think they you know,
they don't need to see that side.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And I'm sure, I'm sure that you know you do
a good job of going in other rooms and things.
But if things get better, how would they notice it?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's a that's a tough one. I mean, you asked
you you asked questions like that before, and it's like,
I mean, the boys, they smart, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I think they both will notice, maybe that we are
more patient with them, because even though we try to
keep our feelings and emotions separate, I do think that
the situation being tense doesn't encourage us to have the
greatest patient sometimes with some of the things that they do.
(17:21):
So I think I hope that they will notice, you know,
more patients from us.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What would they see that would tell the more patience what's.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Happening, just how we respond to them, you know, because
you know, the oldest one, he could be a little
trying at times.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
But as he's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Right right, But you know, sometimes it's like, even at
that first moment, I feel like sometimes I could be
a little annoyed in the way that I communicate to him.
So I don't I don't want to be like that.
Not to say that kids are not going to be annoying.
They eventually they're going to be annoying at some point,
But how I communicate when I am annoyed or when
(18:07):
I am frustrated, especially when it has nothing to do
with him, I think that I'll be able to manage
that a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay, what difference do you think that would make in
their lives? Jay to have parents that were more patient,
less annoyed, those sorts of things. What difference do you
think of making their lives?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, hopefully they'll be happy about it. I don't
know that they internalize it right now as much as
I internalize it, And I could be wrong, obviously, I
don't know, but I think right now they probably just
think this is normal, so and it's not like anything egregious.
So it's not like Bommy yelling, Daddy yelling, you know
(18:51):
what I mean, It's not like that. But you know,
I think when the parents are at peace, it's gonna,
you know, result in them being more settled and you know,
possibly less.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I don't really know. I just think they'll be happy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Would you be pleased to be helping them be happier?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Of course? Of course.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
What else do you think the boys would notice that
would tell them you guys are achieving peace and you're
kind of growing and i'man And again, I don't mean
just when you move out. I mean, like if I
snap my fingers in that piece happened today. What else
do you think they would notice?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Well, I mean it's going to be a major transition
for them if their father isn't living here, So that's
going to be a very obvious thing that they're going
to notice, and that's going to take a lot of
you know, helping guide them through that change.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So how do you know they can handle it?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I have no idea, David, what you say.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I said, we don't know. I'm I'm not a father
that's not involved, So it's gonna be rough. Like it's
they look for me now, and I'm like, yo, my
my way home from work, So me not being here,
it's gonna be. It's gonna be. It's gonna be rough
(20:18):
for both of us. It's gonna take some adjusting. H
I'm just gonna pray that, you know, they get through
it and then just try to stay involved. Is like
the same, only differences to different households, that's all. It's
gonna be tough. It's gonna be. I know it is.
(20:41):
I know it is right, definitely gonna be tough, right,
But I believe that they're gonna be able to get
through it.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But David, if this piece thing started happening today, even
before you moved into a different place, how else would
the boys know it?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I mean, I'm thinking like the same thing. Like, because
I'm a I'm a very patient person, but at times lately,
like it'd be little stuff and I should be a
little bit more patient, but it's just so much other
stuff going on that I'll probably snap a little bit
(21:23):
quicker than I usually will do, or you know, be
a little bit more annoyed then I'm usually yeah, So
I feel like if you was to snap your fingers,
that they notice that, especially my oldest one, my little one,
(21:44):
like he really don't. I think he's rolling with the
punches because he's just he's the youngest, like, so it
is what it is, like they gotta help, they gotta
I'm the youngest, so but I think with my oldest one,
he definitely notice that, Like, okay, that that is all right?
(22:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
What difference do it making their lives? Do you think
if they started noticing this piece on their parents right away,
like if they started seeing that more patience, less snappy,
how do you think that would impact the kids' lives?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I don't know, Like it's hard to say that is like,
I don't think it's impacting their lives in a bad
way right now, right, you know, without you snapping your fingers,
So I don't I can't see if they was to notice,
like how it will impact them. My biggest thing is
(22:49):
what's gonna happen when I'm not here, How that's gonna
impact I think that's a bigger transition and a bigger
impact than me being at peace mentally and you know,
not as snappy and more patient. I think that's the
biggest one. Like if I had to put things on
(23:11):
the board, that one is getting circled like four times
or underlined five times. It's that part why, because it's
a it's a big it's a big change you're talking about,
you know, it's a big change. It could affect him.
It can affect his attitude, It can affect his school work,
(23:31):
it could affect his move it could affect a lot
of things. Because it's Pop saying here because all of
his seventy years of his life, ninety eight percent of
the time, like I don't put him asleep, like you know,
went to sleep, he probably saw me if I wasn't
(23:52):
at work, but when he woke up, he saw me
right there. My boys expect to see me when they
get home, right Like. It's just that's one of the expectations.
So when that expectation is not there, then that's what's
I'm concerned, not saying they won't make it through it.
(24:15):
I can't basic on my childhood because I don't know
how it affected me. Nobody never sat me down like
like it probably did affect me. I don't know, you know,
but I know how it is with me being here
but we'll cross that bridge when it happened, you know,
(24:38):
and just like I said, just prey on it. That'll
be a smoother transition. He'd be good. He's a smart kid,
but he's emotional, he's sensitive.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So right, Yeah, well I have a thought I want
to share about that. But before I do, Jay, you
said that you don't think David's a bad guy and
you still love him, but you're really ready for this
new chapter. What is it about David that you think
(25:11):
is like not a bad guy? Like, what is it
about what? What is it about David that's likable?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, he's good to his children. He he eats healthy,
he's friendly, he's funny sometimes it's kind, you know, he
likes to write poetry. He loves God. Yeah, all those things.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
What makes him a good dad?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
He's present with them, he's involved. I think emotionally he's
a good dad for them. But I'm be honest, Like
if you if you say it's someone a good parent
and you don't factor in the financial piece, then I
I don't know, good is objective, I guess, but if
(26:02):
we take that part out, then you know, I feel
like you know, he's he's present with them, he helps them,
you know, he talks to them, he plays with them,
he praise with them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, okay, do you like that? Do you want to
have a like a co parent that prays with your children?
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Of course?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
How do you think it impacts the boys to see
you guys kind of at your best, whether you're live
together or not, but to see you guys at your best?
How do you think it impacts the kids?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Oh, this line of questioning really challenges me in ways
that I don't like. How do I say it's okay,
I know this is your strategy. I just don't understand it.
So it's hard for me sometimes to just kind of
continue to process these questions. But I think it has
(26:57):
a positive impact on them. I think that it when
anyone is surrounded by care and love and kindness and
peace and all of that stuff, and also providing a
safe home, security structure, like these are the things that
create hopefully law abiding, effective adults. So I mean that's
(27:24):
the long run, I guess.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And you like the idea of them being you know,
law binding effective adults.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes, I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's very common that people will describe the questions that
I ask it's hard for them to answer. But to
be honest with you, I don't necessarily care because oftentimes
healing things are uncomfortable. Going to the doctor, you get shots,
that's uncomfortable. When you're sick, you take medicine that tastes nasty,
that's uncomfortable. Going to the gym, it's uncomfortable. Running for miles.
(27:57):
It's uncomfortable. You can't grow experience change why it will
being comfortable. My job is to create what I call
useful discomfort. My job is to create the experience of discomfort,
but the kind of discomfort that creates change in the
direction that the client would be pleased with. So if
I got to the end of the session and my
client was like, oh, those questions were really easy and
(28:19):
this was a super comfortable process, I didn't do a
good job. My job is to create useful discomfort, meaning
the kind of discomfort that moves the client's life from
wherever they are to wherever they'd like to be. Okay, So, Jay,
(28:43):
first of all, I got to say thank you because
I know there have been times in my time of
knowing you that you wanted to reach through the screen
and choke me out and given that you've been in
the military, you probably know how to choke me out.
So I'm really really grateful you to answer those questions.
So thank you, David. I've never felt like he ever
(29:07):
wanted to choke me out, even though he's probably capable
of it too. But I asked you those questions because
I want to get I wanted to get some information
and understand a few things. And now that you've spent
you know, nearly an hour answering those questions, can I
give you some feedback. I think I think the two
(29:32):
of you are making a mistake, and I want to
help you avoid this mistake, okay, And the mistake you're
making is you're falling into the trap of like, I
want peace, which is understandable, by the way, I totally
(29:53):
understand people wanting peace, and I want to grow. And
the trap is thinking I can't have peace until David
moves out, or or David thinking I can't have peace
until I move out.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Well hold on, wait before you say that, let me
say my part. I want you guys, to get to
the point where my ability to have peace is not
dependent upon whether I live in the house or in
a different place. Now that's not to say not to
(30:34):
move out, and there's not to say not to move
out urgently, but that is to say, if I can
treat the other partner with kindness and acknowledge that they're
not all bad, and acknowledge that they're good at certain things,
then it's going to increase your ability to be more
patient with the children, to be more patient with each other,
(30:55):
and it'll remove the tension in the home.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'll see what you say.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Instead of just being like we're gonna be tense until
we leave, it doesn't actually have to be that way.
And I also think you're underestimating your impact on the
on the children because number one, I promise you they
can feel the tension in the house. I promise you
that's true. Even if you hide negative interactions from them,
(31:25):
they can feel the tension in the house. And I
also promise you the two of you are both loving,
caring parents, so you're gonna be able to parent them
through this transition. So I think it's really important that
we have as much peace as we can possibly have
while we're in the house, because we don't want the
boys to be impacted by the tension that is present.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, I think. I think lately it's been uh, we
don't like, we really don't like. We don't argue, uh,
we say stuff we had text each other more than anything.
(32:12):
We try not to get upset with each other in
front of the boys either. We don't say anything. It's
been times that we had that stuff and the boys
was right there. But I just think lately, like you know,
we we try. It's not easy. We try, right, but
(32:37):
it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Right, And David, I'm very aware what I'm asking and
what I'm what I'm pointing you to. I am very
aware it's not easy, but I'm also aware that it's
massively impactful for the children. And David, you know, like,
have you ever been in a around two people that
(33:02):
you know don't like each other and you can just
feel attention even if they don't say nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
To one person, you can just right absolutely, I know
what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So that's what I'm saying. I promise you your boys can
feel attention. Even though you two are really good people,
You're not You're not throwing, you know, bullets at each
other in front of the kids. You're not stabbing each
other in the face with knives in front of the kids.
You're not having knockdown, drag out fights in front of
the kids, But that tension that you that I was
just talking about, I promise they can feel it, and
(33:36):
I want you guys to do your absolute best to
treat each other with kindness, simply because I think you're
a good person.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Now.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I might not want to be with you right now,
I might want to move out, but that doesn't mean
enough to treat you like you're the worst human being
that ever lived. That doesn't mean I have to treat
you from a place of resentment.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I'm gonna say this, I partially agree with you.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I feel partially.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yes, So I definitely think there is an impact on
our children. Yes, I agree with that. I think the
impact is more that they do not see their parents
in a loving, affectionate relationship, and I think that has
a negative impact on them. I think that, yes, we
(34:22):
are trying our best to be peaceful and be kind
to each other, and I think we do really well
at that. But obviously the tension is there. It's not
going to just be gone totally, but I think that
we do handle it pretty well. The part that I
disagree with is trying to find peace in an environment
(34:42):
that is not conducive.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
For that is hard. It's unrealistic.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
It's not just hard, it's unrealistic. If I was, for example,
if I was beating David's ass, which would be really
hard for me to do, right six five do it,
and I have no intentions on doing it. I'm just
using it as an example. It would be really hard
for us to live together in peace. So know our
(35:09):
situation is not that extreme, but it is still an
environment that is not conducive to the both of us
getting to a place where we deserve to be. So,
no matter what we do, as long as we continue
to live together, and it's going to be impossible for
us to reach the goals that we have for ourselves individually,
(35:31):
that is a given. If this situation was like I said,
Mebida has asked, neither one of us would be at peace.
So it doesn't have to be that extreme to know
that this is not right. This is not the environment
that we want. And we can try, and we have tried,
and we continue to try to be the best version
(35:53):
of ourselves that we can be while we're together, but
that is not going to reach its highest potential until
we are separating it, and I.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Don't disagree with that, Jay, I don't disagree with that.
You You're using some really important phrases there when you're like,
we can't reach our highest potential until we're no longer
living together. Jay, I'm not saying that's not true. Let
me give you an example from your own life to
highlight what I mean. How many times did you deploy.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Twice?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And if I remember correctly, Jay, you were in like.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
The war zone, correct for one deployment?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yet where where were you?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Like?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
What what area?
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Afghanistan?
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
When?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So, when we deploy soldiers to places like Afghanistan, that's
not ideal, but we do things to make it like
as comfortable as possible, Like, for example, they'll have a
(37:02):
big Christmas dinner and another thing they'll do is they'll
play the super Bowl and it's like those things to like,
I'm gonna make it as and in less than ideal situation,
I'm gonna make certain things happen to help the soldiers
focus on this thing. And to be honest with you,
(37:23):
that's really what I'm talking about. I agree with everything
you said, Jay, Like you really didn't say anything that
I really want to disagree with you said like, in
order for me to reach my highest potential, I got
to start my next chapter. We can't do that when
we're living here. I agree with you. I don't think
the situation is ideal, But in the midst of an
unideal less than ideal situation, I can still treat my
(37:48):
partner as like a friend. I can still treat my
co parent as someone that I appreciate instead of someone
I resent and your children will experience that shift and
it'll do good for them.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, I'm working on the resentment.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Part, and that's to be honest with you, one hundred percent.
That's all I'm saying. I believe that you are both
really good people. I believe that you both love your
children very much, and I believe you're doing a good
job of keeping the conflict away from the children. I
also believe that in spite of you guys deciding that
you want to live in separate places, that doesn't mean
(38:27):
you have to do it with resentment, and the kids
are the one that pay the price for the presence
of that resentment. So all I'm saying is, what if
we could live together and instead of looking at him
like oh, the pos that pissed me off. I could
look at you as like you're the dad that prays
with my children, and that's going to help you treat
(38:49):
the other person from a position of appreciation instead of resentment,
and the children benefit from that shift.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, I guess I'm not sure how I don't do that.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well. I think you both could do better at it.
And the reason I know that is because you talk
about the tension and the resentment in the home.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I think it's just some days.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I just keep it to myself.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, I think bottle it up. Yeah, some days are
better than others. I think it's some days is better
than others. I'm gonna be honest with you. It's not.
I'm not going to sit here and like it's in
when fantasy land or whatever the case may be. It's
some days are better than others. So I think we
got to take it day by day. And it's like
(39:33):
I keeps it's not. It's extremely difficult and we are
doing our best. I still sorry.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I don't want to cut you off, but we kind
of need to pick up our kids. I mean we can,
we can still talk, but we got to get in
the car.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
We're gonna be done, and can I have like sixty
more seconds?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
So all I want you to work on is treating
you each other with appreciation instead of resentment. That's it.
I don't want you to like I have these resentful thoughts,
I just hold the man. I want you to replace
the resentful thoughts with appreciation. That doesn't mean you don't
have to move out, that doesn't mean you have to
change anything within the relationship. But I want you to praise,
(40:18):
replace resentment with appreciation, and the children will experience a benefit.
And as you do that, I want you to notice
notice differences in your children, because they will show you differences.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay, what does appreciation look like.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It looks like when you see David walk down the
hall on one of those really bad days when you're like,
I could just go, I could just go shove him
right now. I want you to remind yourself. I want
you to remind yourself. But he's also the kind of
dad that will pray with his children every night, and
a lot of a lot of kids don't have a
dad like that. That's what appreciation looks. Appreciation looks like
(40:54):
in your head saying things that are counter to the resentment,
So it increases is your ability to see that other
person in a positive way. That's what it looks like.
All right, And David, you too, same thing.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Same kid, Okay, I'll try.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Same thing because your mind is like David. You if
I remember correctly, we haven't talked in like over a year.
You cook really well, and you cook vegetarian or even
vegan food. If you cooked me a bomb meal and
then the next day you stole my brand new jacket
(41:44):
because it was cold outside, I could be mad at
you that you took my jacket without permission, or I
could remind myself, but you know what, he made me
a great meal last night. And the human brain will
follow whatever track you put it on. So when you
have one of those bad days and we're being we're
we're having those difficult, resentful thoughts, replace them with the
(42:07):
thoughts associated with appreciation, and your children will notice because
it will impact at tension around them. And I want
you to notice. I want you to notice them noticing. Okay, okay,
Oki do God awesome, all right, you guys go pick
up the kids. Have a great day.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
David.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
My brother was good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Jay.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
It was good to see you again, my sister.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
You know a lot of times clients will refer to
themselves as being like in a stuck situation, and they
don't realize that they're not stuck by the situation. They're
stuck by their mentality associated with the situation. Because even
if David and Jay break up, they still have children
have to raise together, So it's really really important that
they have the proper mindset and mind frame towards the
(42:59):
other parents as they go down this journey. And it
is extremely common when we want to create change, we
have to like mentally, we start to not like our
current situation in order to want to create a new situation.
And in this scenario, there are definitely things about each
other that are causing them to want to break up.
(43:19):
So it's normal to be like, well, this thing drives
me nuts about this person, and that drives my energy
towards them, and that increases resentment. But when you have children,
you have to be very very aware about the environment
and what happens within that environment, and there are things
present like resentment, So we have to acknowledge I can
still not want to be with you, but appreciate you
(43:42):
for the things that you are. So to use as
an example, and this goes both ways, but I'll use
Jay as an example. Jay does not want to be
with David because she said he's not a good provider,
and she has every right to make that decision. But
he's also the kind of dad that attends to his children.
He prays for his children nightly, he prepares meals for
his children, and his children look forward to where used
(44:04):
to seeing him. And you get to acknowledge I don't
want to partner with you anymore, but I don't have
to resent you because I see that you are these
good things too. And if you can do that, then
you're not stuck anymore. You can still create a new chapter.
But it's not about being stuck. It's just about like
waiting for the time for the new chapter to take hold.
Most of the time, the last time we see our
(44:26):
clients is the last time we see our clients. There
are definitely situations where clients will call you a year,
five years, or at some point in the future because
they want to revisit and come back. But it is
absolutely not customary that we get an opportunity to follow
with clients and see how things have been going, and
it's very much in line with what I would expect.
Some things have changed in a really, really positive way,
(44:51):
but a lot of those things don't get noticed. And
one of the things I would say was the biggest
sign of progress for me is how decisive both of
them were, Like they both know exactly what they want
for their future, and they're both doing things that they
(45:11):
weren't doing before, like like Jay talked about working out consistently,
and David talked about like writing and starting new jobs
and working on new things, and which to me is
like taking action and taking initiative. And you know what,
they've decided that they don't want to be together in
this new chapter, into this new season, and that's perfectly okay.
(45:35):
I think we shouldn't measure ourselves as therapists based upon,
you know, whether a couple stay together or not. What
we should measure ourselves upon is whether or not the
individuals in the therapy gained enough enlightenment and awareness that
they could make a decision that they were pleased with,
and that certainly happened here. Thank you for listening. Next
week we will introduce our new family and begin to
(45:57):
follow their journey towards healing. I would love to hear
from you about your healing journey, your family, and your feedback.
Leave a review, send a DM connect with me on
socials at Elliott Speaks. Family Therapy is a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Special thanks to
our assistant Glendale Seppe. It's produced by Jack Quice Thomas
(46:18):
and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team or any
(46:43):
specific concerns or questions you may have.
Welcome back to Family Therapy. Last season, we follow Jay, David,
and Freddie on their journey towards better understanding one another
and to heal from issues like lack of confidence, self love, abandonment,
and co parenting. It wasn't easy. There were some real
vulnerable moments and breakthroughs. They really embraced the sessions and
(00:26):
the hard lessons that came with them. They shared with
us unapologetically, and I really recommend you going back and
listening to season one whenever you have the chance, And
before our sessions begin with this family in season two,
we wanted to go back and check in on the
season one family and see how they've been doing since
(00:47):
our last group session. Two of my favorite people. It's
been a while since eachat and so how about we
start what's been better since we last visited?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Mm? Hmmm hmm, what's been better?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, what's been better?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Don't know? Nothing?
Speaker 1 (01:14):
You know, it's really hard. In fact, I would argue
impossible to have a life where like everything is perfect,
So it's equally hard. I would say impossible to have
a life where nothing is going well. So if you
if you took him in and just really thought about it,
what's something that's going in a way that you're pleased with.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Well, I got baptized in December. That's one.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Oh that's amazing. How come why'd you do that?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I just needed a rent a reset, Like I just
started focusing on you know, there's a lot that's been
going on, and so I was like, I gotta get
closer to the big guy. I haven't been baptized. I
don't even remember. I think I was like seven to
(02:04):
eight years old. But back in November, I just you know,
it was just one of them nights. And then I
just made a decision, was like, you know what, I
think I need to get bad times. I did that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's awesome, Correst, thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I've been writing. I finished writing poems and letters and
stuff like that. I had started a letter to my
sister that passed a couple of years ago, and I
finished it wonderful. And then you know, I still wrote
my own boys Christmas story, working on something else, you know.
(02:45):
I mean, I guess that's some of the good things
started in the school system in September. So I think
that's a real good thing. I might have.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
What do you do in the school system.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I'm an aid with special education students and autism students.
So you know, last year was tough. Some of this
year was tough. I just feel like last month and
a half, at least last month, I was able to
take like a deep breath on some stuff like Okay,
I just feel like down inside things are starting to
(03:18):
turn around and start going in the right direction that
I wanted to go to us.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
David, those are amazing things. Thank you, Jake. What about you?
What are you please with?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I mean, I've been working out pretty consistently.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
So oh night.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What kind of workouts?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Mostly weight training, but I do a little cardio. I
just go to the gym.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Are you noticing any changes in your body or the
way your body performs that you're pleased with?
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yes and no.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean not as much difference as I would like.
But I feel stronger, So I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Very cool. Okay, what else?
Speaker 3 (03:58):
The boys are good? Just Scott straight A's has report cards.
I'm happy about that.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
It's nice. What grade is he in?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Second?
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (04:13):
He's doing really good at football switch school, so now
he's in pre K three, He's not in daycare anymore,
so I'm happy about that. They're doing great. So I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
What role do you think you're playing and them doing great?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I mean, we go over Isaiah's homework with him, and
obviously we get him to practice and support him in
his games. David does like extra training stuff with him
on the side. I think making a decision for to
switch schools was a major decision, and I think it's
(04:54):
going to really be helpful for him in the long run.
It's being present for them, you know, read into the
things like that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Excellent. Okay, So now that we're all here together for
the first time quite a bit, what are your best
hopes from talking with me?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
I don't give us something. I don't.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
What are you hoping you go get?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I think it's good to just wrap things up and
you know, just reconnect and see how everybody's doing and
just check in.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I agree. Let's say we have a conversation and you know,
in a little bit of time, you guys get off
the zoom, but you get off knowing that that was
useful to us. What would you need to get from
it to know it was useful.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
I'm not gonna lie. I have very low expectations. I
don't think it's going to be very useful but it
is good to hear your voice.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Though, and I'm I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I'm glad everyone as well. But I'm not sure that
I see that much will be gained from it.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
But if we if something is gained from it, what
would it be like? What would the unlikely outcome be
that you'd be pleased with? Like, even if they're low expectations,
what would have to happen to exceed that?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Like?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
What would you notice wud be like, Wow, that was useful,
This difference has happened. What difference would you have to
have noticed?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I don't know. Maybe it's something said and I don't know.
I'm gonna be honest with you, I really don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
For well, so what if I say something like super useful?
What if I say something super enlightening? What if I
say something super amazing? How would the two of you
notice it's making a difference in your life?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean, if you said something that was super useful
and it was applied, probably won't know in a month
or a couple of weeks or whatever. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah,
Elliott did say this and I see it now, right, Yeah,
So that I take that.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay, And what kind of thing would you like to
see in a week or a couple of months, it
would be like, oh, okay, I see.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I have no idea. I had no idea, Like I said, Man,
I'm just the way things going right now. I'm taking
you know, everything one day at a time and just
keep pushing forward, concentrating on what I need to do
to make my situation better, that's all. And take care
of my kids.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How would you know your situation got better.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Because trying to take care of the small little things
that I need to take care of. That's how I
know it's getting better. That's just with me personally, Like
that's it, Like that's my that's the goal, and it's
a must. It's not like it's a want. It's like
some of this stuff has to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
What's the kind of stuff David that like has to happen.
That's not a want, it's a must. Like these things
have to happen h.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
My own place, that's a must that has.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Had Where do you want that to be?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
What you mean where like close proximity? You know, I
was always the number one thing is like I'm always
going to stay close to my sons. So I'm not
trying to go nowhere far or a different state or
anything like that. So I'm being a very close proximity.
So I could get to my boys and they could
(08:29):
get to me.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
What difference would it make for you? They have your
own spot, A big difference in what ways? I mean,
it would be a big difference on both of us.
You know, Jalen get her peace in her space.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I have my piece and my space, and I think
it's just helped both of us mentally, you know, and
help us move on. I think that's that's the goal.
So that's an important thing that needs to happen.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
All right, So if I could help everybody have their
peace and move on, David, that would be useful.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, that would definitely be useful. That's what I'm saying.
Like it could be something that you say and then
down the line, I'd be like, oh all right, yeah,
Elliott mentioned this. Okay, I'll see what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Excellent. Okay, Jay, what about you? What would you what
would you hope to be an outcome even if unlikely?
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Okay, I see you have not changed, sir.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
I'm sorry, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You get an a plus for consistency.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I'm nothing that consistent.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, I don't know. I know what I want to
happen in my life. I don't know that this conversation
is going to help me get there.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
What do you want to have happened in your life?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I want the same thing that David has said, want
us to live separately. Then I want to have that
separation so that we can both figure out what the
next part of our life looks like without each other.
I want that really bad. I want to figure out
how to co parent when we're not living together. I
(10:19):
want I just want to move on. Like I feel
like we've been stuck in this place, in this space
for so long, and it's really draining, and I just
want that to happen so that we can move forward.
I know we've talked about in the past how to
move forward mentally and emotionally and all of that stuff
while we're still in each other's presence. I still find
(10:40):
that as a really difficult thing to do. But I
think we do our best. But it you know, it's time,
we've we've exhausted this and it's time to get to
the next page, the next chapter.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What difference would it make for you to get to
that next chapter.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Jay, it's a huge difference.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
I think that I would feel like just like a
sigh of relief, like finally, like and it's not a
matter of not caring, of not having love for him.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
I do care. I do have love for him. But
I think that we've just outgrown this, you know. And
it's really hard to be somewhere you don't want to
be and feel like if you do make a decision
that is going to hurt the person that you care
about drastically. You don't want to see them hurt, but
(11:34):
you also don't want to be in that situation anymore.
So I think if we could just get to that point,
you know, I think it'd be great for both of us,
for our mental health. I think that I think we'll
grow as a person individually a lot a lot when
we're not so connected anymore.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And do you want to grow? I do?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I do.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
How would you know you were growing in a way
that was right for.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
You, Jay, I think one of the ways is I
would stop spending so much time thinking about the situation
and letting it become so burdensome to me. And I
feel like I've done the best that I can to
minimize that with the current situation. But I do think,
you know, once things change, I'll feel just less burden
(12:26):
and less and just I don't know, man, I feel
like I'll just focus on other things, like if sometimes
when things aren't right in front of you anymore, you
get to just be like, oh wow, so the elephant
is gone. Look at this side of the room, look
at that side of the room. All of these other
things exist, Like I can now focus on those things,
and that's kind of where I want to get to.
(12:46):
So I think, you know, I think that'll be a
part of it. I think I don't like being home.
And I'm not saying like David is not a bad guy.
These are the ways that I feel about the situation.
This is not about him him not being a good person.
This is not about him being some terrible guy, because
he's not that. It's just how I feel in the
(13:07):
situation is not healthy. So I don't really like being home,
and I think once we separate, I think I'll enjoy
being home more. I think I would do more to
make the house feel more like what I wanted to
feel like. So I think, you know, those the type
of things that I might be doing and thinking.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Okay, David, what about you? What would you notice about
yourself that would tell you that that piece you would
talk about earlier was actually happening.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
So I feel like in my own situation, my own
space that you know, I built a woofsa like all right, cool,
now I could go ahead and just go ahead and
start doing what I need to do. Yeah, so until
that happened, I think, you know, and this is I
(14:00):
want her to she I told her this before. She
Absolutely we both need our peace and it's not just
for ourselves, it's for our two sons. So right, you know,
me being not at peace with situations, it's not a
good thing towards my children, all three of them, even
(14:24):
though my daughter is not here. But still I feel
like and I need to be in my own environment. Yeah,
it's like you said, it's it's it's that time, you know,
time for us to move on as co parent, you know.
So my focus is that and my children, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
What would you be concentrating on instead of this?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
My kids? Okay, my children, veteran, myself moving on, you know,
staying healthy and all that good stuff, going back to school,
like all of that, like that's all all the things
I want to do and I need, and it's just
there's two things that I really need to do first,
(15:07):
so I could start doing that. And that's the goal.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
You said, there's two things that need to happen. One
of them is moving out.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Get a vehicle. I need a car. Those are my
two goals because it would help me with a vehicle,
will help take the burning off the jay by picking
up the boys and stuff like that. And then I
don't got to rely on her. I don't want I
don't want everything. She's been doing a lot herself for
a while, so it's it's time. And I always had
(15:36):
a car, but for the last like there's been a
year and a half, well a year and like a
couple of months, I ain't have no vehicle.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Okay, hey, how would the How would the boys know
that the two of you had achieved piece? We're concentrating,
we're focused. How would how would the boys know that?
Like then, I don't just mean when you move out,
I mean like if it happened, like right this minute,
if I just snap my finger and made it happen,
how would the boys know that?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I think the boys are too young to really know
me personally, like I on my rough days, like I
try to just deal with it by myself, Like I
try not to show nothing in front of them, like
I gotta go in a different room, or go in
the garage, or go take a walk, like it's been
(16:29):
some rough days. So I try to, to my best
of my ability, try to hold it together in front
of them. So I don't really think they you know,
they don't need to see that side.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And I'm sure, I'm sure that you know you do
a good job of going in other rooms and things.
But if things get better, how would they notice it?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's a that's a tough one. I mean, you asked
you you asked questions like that before, and it's like,
I mean, the boys, they smart, but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
I think they both will notice, maybe that we are
more patient with them, because even though we try to
keep our feelings and emotions separate, I do think that
the situation being tense doesn't encourage us to have the
greatest patient sometimes with some of the things that they do.
(17:21):
So I think I hope that they will notice, you know,
more patients from us.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
What would they see that would tell the more patience what's.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Happening, just how we respond to them, you know, because
you know, the oldest one, he could be a little
trying at times.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
But as he's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Right right, But you know, sometimes it's like, even at
that first moment, I feel like sometimes I could be
a little annoyed in the way that I communicate to him.
So I don't I don't want to be like that.
Not to say that kids are not going to be annoying.
They eventually they're going to be annoying at some point,
But how I communicate when I am annoyed or when
(18:07):
I am frustrated, especially when it has nothing to do
with him, I think that I'll be able to manage
that a little bit better.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Okay, what difference do you think that would make in
their lives? Jay to have parents that were more patient,
less annoyed, those sorts of things. What difference do you
think of making their lives?
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, hopefully they'll be happy about it. I don't
know that they internalize it right now as much as
I internalize it, And I could be wrong, obviously, I
don't know, but I think right now they probably just
think this is normal, so and it's not like anything egregious.
So it's not like Bommy yelling, Daddy yelling, you know
(18:51):
what I mean, It's not like that. But you know,
I think when the parents are at peace, it's gonna,
you know, result in them being more settled and you know,
possibly less.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
I don't really know. I just think they'll be happy.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Would you be pleased to be helping them be happier?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Of course? Of course.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
What else do you think the boys would notice that
would tell them you guys are achieving peace and you're
kind of growing and i'man And again, I don't mean
just when you move out. I mean, like if I
snap my fingers in that piece happened today. What else
do you think they would notice?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Well, I mean it's going to be a major transition
for them if their father isn't living here, So that's
going to be a very obvious thing that they're going
to notice, and that's going to take a lot of
you know, helping guide them through that change.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So how do you know they can handle it?
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I have no idea, David, what you say.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I said, we don't know. I'm I'm not a father
that's not involved, So it's gonna be rough. Like it's
they look for me now, and I'm like, yo, my
my way home from work, So me not being here,
it's gonna be. It's gonna be. It's gonna be rough
(20:18):
for both of us. It's gonna take some adjusting. H
I'm just gonna pray that, you know, they get through
it and then just try to stay involved. Is like
the same, only differences to different households, that's all. It's
gonna be tough. It's gonna be. I know it is.
(20:41):
I know it is right, definitely gonna be tough, right,
But I believe that they're gonna be able to get
through it.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
But David, if this piece thing started happening today, even
before you moved into a different place, how else would
the boys know it?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I mean, I'm thinking like the same thing. Like, because
I'm a I'm a very patient person, but at times lately,
like it'd be little stuff and I should be a
little bit more patient, but it's just so much other
stuff going on that I'll probably snap a little bit
(21:23):
quicker than I usually will do, or you know, be
a little bit more annoyed then I'm usually yeah, So
I feel like if you was to snap your fingers,
that they notice that, especially my oldest one, my little one,
(21:44):
like he really don't. I think he's rolling with the
punches because he's just he's the youngest, like, so it
is what it is, like they gotta help, they gotta
I'm the youngest, so but I think with my oldest one,
he definitely notice that, Like, okay, that that is all right?
(22:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
What difference do it making their lives? Do you think
if they started noticing this piece on their parents right away,
like if they started seeing that more patience, less snappy,
how do you think that would impact the kids' lives?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I don't know, Like it's hard to say that is like,
I don't think it's impacting their lives in a bad
way right now, right, you know, without you snapping your fingers,
So I don't I can't see if they was to notice,
like how it will impact them. My biggest thing is
(22:49):
what's gonna happen when I'm not here, How that's gonna
impact I think that's a bigger transition and a bigger
impact than me being at peace mentally and you know,
not as snappy and more patient. I think that's the
biggest one. Like if I had to put things on
(23:11):
the board, that one is getting circled like four times
or underlined five times. It's that part why, because it's
a it's a big it's a big change you're talking about,
you know, it's a big change. It could affect him.
It can affect his attitude, It can affect his school work,
(23:31):
it could affect his move it could affect a lot
of things. Because it's Pop saying here because all of
his seventy years of his life, ninety eight percent of
the time, like I don't put him asleep, like you know,
went to sleep, he probably saw me if I wasn't
(23:52):
at work, but when he woke up, he saw me
right there. My boys expect to see me when they
get home, right Like. It's just that's one of the expectations.
So when that expectation is not there, then that's what's
I'm concerned, not saying they won't make it through it.
(24:15):
I can't basic on my childhood because I don't know
how it affected me. Nobody never sat me down like
like it probably did affect me. I don't know, you know,
but I know how it is with me being here
but we'll cross that bridge when it happened, you know,
(24:38):
and just like I said, just prey on it. That'll
be a smoother transition. He'd be good. He's a smart kid,
but he's emotional, he's sensitive.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
So right, Yeah, well I have a thought I want
to share about that. But before I do, Jay, you
said that you don't think David's a bad guy and
you still love him, but you're really ready for this
new chapter. What is it about David that you think
(25:11):
is like not a bad guy? Like, what is it
about what? What is it about David that's likable?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I mean, he's good to his children. He he eats healthy,
he's friendly, he's funny sometimes it's kind, you know, he
likes to write poetry. He loves God. Yeah, all those things.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
What makes him a good dad?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
He's present with them, he's involved. I think emotionally he's
a good dad for them. But I'm be honest, Like
if you if you say it's someone a good parent
and you don't factor in the financial piece, then I
I don't know, good is objective, I guess, but if
(26:02):
we take that part out, then you know, I feel
like you know, he's he's present with them, he helps them,
you know, he talks to them, he plays with them,
he praise with them.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, okay, do you like that? Do you want to
have a like a co parent that prays with your children?
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Of course?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
How do you think it impacts the boys to see
you guys kind of at your best, whether you're live
together or not, but to see you guys at your best?
How do you think it impacts the kids?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Oh, this line of questioning really challenges me in ways
that I don't like. How do I say it's okay,
I know this is your strategy. I just don't understand it.
So it's hard for me sometimes to just kind of
continue to process these questions. But I think it has
(26:57):
a positive impact on them. I think that it when
anyone is surrounded by care and love and kindness and
peace and all of that stuff, and also providing a
safe home, security structure, like these are the things that
create hopefully law abiding, effective adults. So I mean that's
(27:24):
the long run, I guess.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And you like the idea of them being you know,
law binding effective adults.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes, I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
It's very common that people will describe the questions that
I ask it's hard for them to answer. But to
be honest with you, I don't necessarily care because oftentimes
healing things are uncomfortable. Going to the doctor, you get shots,
that's uncomfortable. When you're sick, you take medicine that tastes nasty,
that's uncomfortable. Going to the gym, it's uncomfortable. Running for miles.
(27:57):
It's uncomfortable. You can't grow experience change why it will
being comfortable. My job is to create what I call
useful discomfort. My job is to create the experience of discomfort,
but the kind of discomfort that creates change in the
direction that the client would be pleased with. So if
I got to the end of the session and my
client was like, oh, those questions were really easy and
(28:19):
this was a super comfortable process, I didn't do a
good job. My job is to create useful discomfort, meaning
the kind of discomfort that moves the client's life from
wherever they are to wherever they'd like to be. Okay, So, Jay,
(28:43):
first of all, I got to say thank you because
I know there have been times in my time of
knowing you that you wanted to reach through the screen
and choke me out and given that you've been in
the military, you probably know how to choke me out.
So I'm really really grateful you to answer those questions.
So thank you, David. I've never felt like he ever
(29:07):
wanted to choke me out, even though he's probably capable
of it too. But I asked you those questions because
I want to get I wanted to get some information
and understand a few things. And now that you've spent
you know, nearly an hour answering those questions, can I
give you some feedback. I think I think the two
(29:32):
of you are making a mistake, and I want to
help you avoid this mistake, okay, And the mistake you're
making is you're falling into the trap of like, I
want peace, which is understandable, by the way, I totally
(29:53):
understand people wanting peace, and I want to grow. And
the trap is thinking I can't have peace until David
moves out, or or David thinking I can't have peace
until I move out.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I can't.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Well hold on, wait before you say that, let me
say my part. I want you guys, to get to
the point where my ability to have peace is not
dependent upon whether I live in the house or in
a different place. Now that's not to say not to
(30:34):
move out, and there's not to say not to move
out urgently, but that is to say, if I can
treat the other partner with kindness and acknowledge that they're
not all bad, and acknowledge that they're good at certain things,
then it's going to increase your ability to be more
patient with the children, to be more patient with each other,
(30:55):
and it'll remove the tension in the home.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I'll see what you say.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Instead of just being like we're gonna be tense until
we leave, it doesn't actually have to be that way.
And I also think you're underestimating your impact on the
on the children because number one, I promise you they
can feel the tension in the house. I promise you
that's true. Even if you hide negative interactions from them,
(31:25):
they can feel the tension in the house. And I
also promise you the two of you are both loving,
caring parents, so you're gonna be able to parent them
through this transition. So I think it's really important that
we have as much peace as we can possibly have
while we're in the house, because we don't want the
boys to be impacted by the tension that is present.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, I think. I think lately it's been uh, we
don't like, we really don't like. We don't argue, uh,
we say stuff we had text each other more than anything.
(32:12):
We try not to get upset with each other in
front of the boys either. We don't say anything. It's
been times that we had that stuff and the boys
was right there. But I just think lately, like you know,
we we try. It's not easy. We try, right, but
(32:37):
it's not easy.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Right, And David, I'm very aware what I'm asking and
what I'm what I'm pointing you to. I am very
aware it's not easy, but I'm also aware that it's
massively impactful for the children. And David, you know, like,
have you ever been in a around two people that
(33:02):
you know don't like each other and you can just
feel attention even if they don't say nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
To one person, you can just right absolutely, I know
what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So that's what I'm saying. I promise you your boys can
feel attention. Even though you two are really good people,
You're not You're not throwing, you know, bullets at each
other in front of the kids. You're not stabbing each
other in the face with knives in front of the kids.
You're not having knockdown, drag out fights in front of
the kids, But that tension that you that I was
just talking about, I promise they can feel it, and
(33:36):
I want you guys to do your absolute best to
treat each other with kindness, simply because I think you're
a good person.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Now.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I might not want to be with you right now,
I might want to move out, but that doesn't mean
enough to treat you like you're the worst human being
that ever lived. That doesn't mean I have to treat
you from a place of resentment.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
I'm gonna say this, I partially agree with you.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I feel partially.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yes, So I definitely think there is an impact on
our children. Yes, I agree with that. I think the
impact is more that they do not see their parents
in a loving, affectionate relationship, and I think that has
a negative impact on them. I think that, yes, we
(34:22):
are trying our best to be peaceful and be kind
to each other, and I think we do really well
at that. But obviously the tension is there. It's not
going to just be gone totally, but I think that
we do handle it pretty well. The part that I
disagree with is trying to find peace in an environment
(34:42):
that is not conducive.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
For that is hard. It's unrealistic.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
It's not just hard, it's unrealistic. If I was, for example,
if I was beating David's ass, which would be really
hard for me to do, right six five do it,
and I have no intentions on doing it. I'm just
using it as an example. It would be really hard
for us to live together in peace. So know our
(35:09):
situation is not that extreme, but it is still an
environment that is not conducive to the both of us
getting to a place where we deserve to be. So,
no matter what we do, as long as we continue
to live together, and it's going to be impossible for
us to reach the goals that we have for ourselves individually,
(35:31):
that is a given. If this situation was like I said,
Mebida has asked, neither one of us would be at peace.
So it doesn't have to be that extreme to know
that this is not right. This is not the environment
that we want. And we can try, and we have tried,
and we continue to try to be the best version
(35:53):
of ourselves that we can be while we're together, but
that is not going to reach its highest potential until
we are separating it, and I.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Don't disagree with that, Jay, I don't disagree with that.
You You're using some really important phrases there when you're like,
we can't reach our highest potential until we're no longer
living together. Jay, I'm not saying that's not true. Let
me give you an example from your own life to
highlight what I mean. How many times did you deploy.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Twice?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And if I remember correctly, Jay, you were in like.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
The war zone, correct for one deployment?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yet where where were you?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Like?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
What what area?
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Afghanistan?
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:39):
When?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So, when we deploy soldiers to places like Afghanistan, that's
not ideal, but we do things to make it like
as comfortable as possible, Like, for example, they'll have a
(37:02):
big Christmas dinner and another thing they'll do is they'll
play the super Bowl and it's like those things to like,
I'm gonna make it as and in less than ideal situation,
I'm gonna make certain things happen to help the soldiers
focus on this thing. And to be honest with you,
(37:23):
that's really what I'm talking about. I agree with everything
you said, Jay, Like you really didn't say anything that
I really want to disagree with you said like, in
order for me to reach my highest potential, I got
to start my next chapter. We can't do that when
we're living here. I agree with you. I don't think
the situation is ideal, But in the midst of an
unideal less than ideal situation, I can still treat my
(37:48):
partner as like a friend. I can still treat my
co parent as someone that I appreciate instead of someone
I resent and your children will experience that shift and
it'll do good for them.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Yeah, I mean, I'm working on the resentment.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Part, and that's to be honest with you, one hundred percent.
That's all I'm saying. I believe that you are both
really good people. I believe that you both love your
children very much, and I believe you're doing a good
job of keeping the conflict away from the children. I
also believe that in spite of you guys deciding that
you want to live in separate places, that doesn't mean
(38:27):
you have to do it with resentment, and the kids
are the one that pay the price for the presence
of that resentment. So all I'm saying is, what if
we could live together and instead of looking at him
like oh, the pos that pissed me off. I could
look at you as like you're the dad that prays
with my children, and that's going to help you treat
(38:49):
the other person from a position of appreciation instead of resentment,
and the children benefit from that shift.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, I guess I'm not sure how I don't do that.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Well. I think you both could do better at it.
And the reason I know that is because you talk
about the tension and the resentment in the home.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I think it's just some days.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
I just keep it to myself.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, I think bottle it up. Yeah, some days are
better than others. I think it's some days is better
than others. I'm gonna be honest with you. It's not.
I'm not going to sit here and like it's in
when fantasy land or whatever the case may be. It's
some days are better than others. So I think we
got to take it day by day. And it's like
(39:33):
I keeps it's not. It's extremely difficult and we are
doing our best. I still sorry.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I don't want to cut you off, but we kind
of need to pick up our kids. I mean we can,
we can still talk, but we got to get in
the car.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
We're gonna be done, and can I have like sixty
more seconds?
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
So all I want you to work on is treating
you each other with appreciation instead of resentment. That's it.
I don't want you to like I have these resentful thoughts,
I just hold the man. I want you to replace
the resentful thoughts with appreciation. That doesn't mean you don't
have to move out, that doesn't mean you have to
change anything within the relationship. But I want you to praise,
(40:18):
replace resentment with appreciation, and the children will experience a benefit.
And as you do that, I want you to notice
notice differences in your children, because they will show you differences.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Okay, what does appreciation look like.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
It looks like when you see David walk down the
hall on one of those really bad days when you're like,
I could just go, I could just go shove him
right now. I want you to remind yourself. I want
you to remind yourself. But he's also the kind of
dad that will pray with his children every night, and
a lot of a lot of kids don't have a
dad like that. That's what appreciation looks. Appreciation looks like
(40:54):
in your head saying things that are counter to the resentment,
So it increases is your ability to see that other
person in a positive way. That's what it looks like.
All right, And David, you too, same thing.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Same kid, Okay, I'll try.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Same thing because your mind is like David. You if
I remember correctly, we haven't talked in like over a year.
You cook really well, and you cook vegetarian or even
vegan food. If you cooked me a bomb meal and
then the next day you stole my brand new jacket
(41:44):
because it was cold outside, I could be mad at
you that you took my jacket without permission, or I
could remind myself, but you know what, he made me
a great meal last night. And the human brain will
follow whatever track you put it on. So when you
have one of those bad days and we're being we're
we're having those difficult, resentful thoughts, replace them with the
(42:07):
thoughts associated with appreciation, and your children will notice because
it will impact at tension around them. And I want
you to notice. I want you to notice them noticing. Okay, okay,
Oki do God awesome, all right, you guys go pick
up the kids. Have a great day.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
David.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
My brother was good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Jay.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
It was good to see you again, my sister.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
You know a lot of times clients will refer to
themselves as being like in a stuck situation, and they
don't realize that they're not stuck by the situation. They're
stuck by their mentality associated with the situation. Because even
if David and Jay break up, they still have children
have to raise together, So it's really really important that
they have the proper mindset and mind frame towards the
(42:59):
other parents as they go down this journey. And it
is extremely common when we want to create change, we
have to like mentally, we start to not like our
current situation in order to want to create a new situation.
And in this scenario, there are definitely things about each
other that are causing them to want to break up.
(43:19):
So it's normal to be like, well, this thing drives
me nuts about this person, and that drives my energy
towards them, and that increases resentment. But when you have children,
you have to be very very aware about the environment
and what happens within that environment, and there are things
present like resentment, So we have to acknowledge I can
still not want to be with you, but appreciate you
(43:42):
for the things that you are. So to use as
an example, and this goes both ways, but I'll use
Jay as an example. Jay does not want to be
with David because she said he's not a good provider,
and she has every right to make that decision. But
he's also the kind of dad that attends to his children.
He prays for his children nightly, he prepares meals for
his children, and his children look forward to where used
(44:04):
to seeing him. And you get to acknowledge I don't
want to partner with you anymore, but I don't have
to resent you because I see that you are these
good things too. And if you can do that, then
you're not stuck anymore. You can still create a new chapter.
But it's not about being stuck. It's just about like
waiting for the time for the new chapter to take hold.
Most of the time, the last time we see our
(44:26):
clients is the last time we see our clients. There
are definitely situations where clients will call you a year,
five years, or at some point in the future because
they want to revisit and come back. But it is
absolutely not customary that we get an opportunity to follow
with clients and see how things have been going, and
it's very much in line with what I would expect.
Some things have changed in a really, really positive way,
(44:51):
but a lot of those things don't get noticed. And
one of the things I would say was the biggest
sign of progress for me is how decisive both of
them were, Like they both know exactly what they want
for their future, and they're both doing things that they
(45:11):
weren't doing before, like like Jay talked about working out consistently,
and David talked about like writing and starting new jobs
and working on new things, and which to me is
like taking action and taking initiative. And you know what,
they've decided that they don't want to be together in
this new chapter, into this new season, and that's perfectly okay.
(45:35):
I think we shouldn't measure ourselves as therapists based upon,
you know, whether a couple stay together or not. What
we should measure ourselves upon is whether or not the
individuals in the therapy gained enough enlightenment and awareness that
they could make a decision that they were pleased with,
and that certainly happened here. Thank you for listening. Next
week we will introduce our new family and begin to
(45:57):
follow their journey towards healing. I would love to hear
from you about your healing journey, your family, and your feedback.
Leave a review, send a DM connect with me on
socials at Elliott Speaks. Family Therapy is a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Special thanks to
our assistant Glendale Seppe. It's produced by Jack Quice Thomas
(46:18):
and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team or any
(46:43):
specific concerns or questions you may have.
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