Is Marvin Harrison Jr. A WR1? | Dynasty Rankings Debate (Ep. 258) - FantasyPros Dynasty Football Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, everybody, Welcome into the Fantasy Pro's Dynasty Football Podcast.
I'm Ryan Warmley, joined as always by Pat Fitzmorris and
by Scott Bogman. Fellas. We are having some debates going
on today. You were just saying that you've had a
lot of each other this week. You're getting a bit
more here with our Dynasty Rankings Debates episode. We've picked
out nine players that you guys are pretty far apart

(00:23):
on either positionally or overall in your rankings or both.
For a lot of these cases, we're trying to hit
guys at every position. So we've got a quarterback on here,
handful of running backs and receivers and a tight end
as well, and we'll just kind of go through and
see if you guys can make your cases against each
other of why you feel the way you do about
these players. It's worth noting just as kind of a
general thought over all of this, that you know, we're

(00:46):
all kind of interested in everybody at the right price.
So it's not like if somebody is lower on somebody,
you're saying you can't possibly ever have this guy on
your Dynasty roster and you're terrible if you do. It's
not that, but just guys that we see differently from
each other, you twobe differently from each other. I want
to remind everybody that all of our twenty twenty five
consensus rankings and tears can be found at fantasypros dot
com slash rankings. You can navigate to the dynasty rankings

(01:09):
from there as well. All right, that was a long intro,
but before we dive into the actual show, I do
want to ask a little bit about something that happened
earlier today. Guys, Justin Fields was carted off. Now, guys
getting carted off in training camp is kind of overblown.
A lot of the time, they just use the cart
because why.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Not, Yes, it's not it's not actually like let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, you know, fields Head. It did have a lamp
and obviously it ended up being a dislocated toe. But yeah,
I would just say the general rule, don't overreact to
the cart in a lot of cases. But but it
brought up a good point that we were talking about
a little bit before we started recording Bogman, which is,
how do you approach your dynasty rankings, not read draft
your dynasty rankings. When you see I'll call it major

(01:49):
major ish injury news. I mean, it's significant injury news
right in training camp and stuff like that. How does
that impact your dynasty approach?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
It doesn't. It shouldn't, right because specifically, you know, I
mean I look in a shorter window, so maybe it'll
affect a little bit here or there. But I think
for most nasty managers, unless it is a torn acl
something where the guy's going to miss the whole season
or you know, significant chunk of the season, maybe I'll

(02:19):
adjust at that point. But for the most part, you
kind of ignore what happens in the preseason unless it's
a guy winning or losing a job, right like, and
that happens at the end of the preseason in training camp.
So yeah, early news like Justin Field's hurting his little toe,
I think I think we're okay with for now. When

(02:41):
we start to hear guys missed significant time, didn't react.
But the small news is small news, and I'm not
going to react to it immediately.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
What do you think.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
I dropped him a couple of spots, mainly because I
think Fields is probably one of those borderline guys right
now who is probably worse than fifty fifty to have
a starting job in the league in twenty twenty seven,
after this next wave of quarterbacks that comes out in
the next two draft classes.

Speaker 4 (03:07):
So you're gonna lean heavily on.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
The production he gives you in twenty twenty five and
twenty twenty six, maybe twenty twenty six if he still
has a job. And you know, now, I don't know
how aggressively he is running early in the season if
he's got a messed up toe, and there's always the
risk of cascading injuries that maybe lead to something else
like a soft tissue hamstring.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Our calf. So I'm a little concerned.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
And you know, I dropped him below a couple of
guys that maybe it was a borderline call with anyway,
Like one of the guys.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Was that Redraft or was that Dynasty you move you moved.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
In both re draft and Dynasty. I dropt him a
little bit like I put him.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
You consider good.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
I was just going to say, like I had him
one spot ahead of I think Anthony Richardson, and I
bumped Richardson ahead of him, even though even though who
knows if things are gonna go well in camp for
Richardson and my be sitting behind Daniel Jones.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Did you consider not a drastic drop, of course, but
did you consider a drop of Garrett Wilson just based
on the idea of if Fields does miss a lot
of time, it's yet another year with this horrible quarterback
situation for him.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Not yet.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I mean, is would it really be from a passing standpoint,
that big a drop off to Tyrod Taylor?

Speaker 4 (04:22):
I don't know if it would be maybe someone well,
I mean, I just.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Say people think like the college connection with Fields and Wilson.
I guess, but I'm not saying you should have dropped him.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
I just wanted to ask, Yeah, I have not dropped Wilson.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Okay, dive into some of the Oh, go ahead, I
was gonna say, I haven't moved anybody, but I wouldn't
move Garrett Wilson because he's had bad quarterback playing been
pretty good. So yeah, let's let's have been to some
of our debates here. We're gonna start with the one
quarterback we have on here, and it's Michael Pennix Junior.
Fitz has him at QB fourteen, Bogman at QB twenty.

(04:56):
Fits has him one hundred and third overall, and Bogman
one hundred and sixty fi overall. By the way, I
tried as best I could to get a mix of
guys like that one of you was higher on than
the other for whatever reason. There are plenty of both
where you disagree, But the biggest disagreement, which is where
we wanted to really focus on for today's episode, for
whatever reason, seem to be Fits higher and Bogman lower.

(05:17):
So it does skew a little little that way.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
And I'll just kind of preface that now that that
was not intentional or anything. There are a few here
where it's the reverse, but for whatever reason, where there's
a big gap, that tends to be the way it
is on our rankings. But yeah, QB fourteen versus QB
twenty one hundred and third overall versus one hundred and
sixty fifth overall, Fits is the guy who's higher. I'll
let you go first. Why do you like Pennix?

Speaker 4 (05:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (05:38):
And I like having the higher ground on Bogman on
most of these categories, Like he can try to scale
the castle walls and I can throw rocks and boiling
oil on him from my perch up top. All right,
So with Pennix, one caveat here I think QB fourteen
is a perfectly defensible ranking for Pennis in super flex,

(05:58):
where you're starting two quarterbacks and it's totally fine to
have a good pocket style quarterback in one of those spots,
maybe even both of those spots. In one QB dynasty,
I would probably have Penix like two or three spots lower,
just since it's a little more important in one QB
to get some rushing numbers out of your quarterback and
raise the ceiling a little bit. But for superflex, yeah,

(06:21):
like Pennix is a terrific arm He is a smart
pro style quarterback who is not going to take many
sacks or make a lot of dumb mistakes, so he's
going to have job security going forward. Basically, I think
he's a guy who is going to average somewhere around
eighteen fantasy points a game over the next ten years,
like about two hundred and thirty passing yards about you know,

(06:41):
one point seven touchdown passes a game, which gets them
in the upper twenties, lower thirties most years.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Like I'm not going way out over my.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Skis and projecting like Peyton Manning type rate stats for him,
but you know, and Boggs if you have Penix at
QB twenty, I'm probably going to be a gast at
some of the players you have ranked higher than him, Like,
which three guys do you have ranked in that?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think the big ones that you're going to be
upset about are golf, which I think it's like may
remember I three year window, and I'm looking at the
next two years for golf. I think maybe could still
be better than Pennix. I have cam Ward ahead of him.
I don't know where you're at of cam and I
do have justin fields all right.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think cam is defensible fields and golf not so
like Pennix is a younger. Golf doesn't run. It's gonna
give you pretty good. So let's true take the.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Younger version of Jared Goff.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
I think you just don't like him because he lit
up your Texas Longhorns in the college football playoffs.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
No no, no, no no no. So I looked at this,
and I looked at where I had him ranked, and
I do take the consideration, I, okay, well, what can
he say that's gonna throw me off? Golf is the
one guy that I would consider moving Pennix ahead of
right now, and honestly, that is like, is the rest
of your team built to win right now? If it is,

(08:12):
then take the floor of golf, you know what I mean,
and see what he can do. Especially if the defense
is bad like it was at the end of last season.
I'll have to pass a little bit more. Pennix is
that in terms of archetype, right, he is what you
want out of Joe Burrow. Like that, that's what you want.
You want him to build to be a Joe Burrow.
A guy that's gonna sit in the pocket, throw the ball.

(08:33):
He's not gonna get you those scrambling stats, not gonna
get you those rushing stats. But everyone else outside of
golf that I have ranked ahead of him is a
guy that's gonna get you rushing yards, all of them.
Cam Ward was fourth in rushing yards per attempt last
season at Miami. If they just let him run more,
he can do it. He hasn't or he didn't last season.

(08:54):
I think he's gonna do a lot of it at
Tennessee Fields. McCarthy, Lawrence Murray, even Love after the knee
injury or ink whatever it was early in the year
last year, party scrambles a little bit and he's more
proven than Pennis CJ. Stroud doesn't scramble, but he's already
had a really good year on the books. We've had
three starts for Michael PENNOCKX. They were great, He looked good,

(09:16):
and I do think he is a good quarterback because
he lit up my Longhorns, Fitzy. But that's why I
have him at twenty and I'm luke warm on him
instead of just Pollyanna.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
To come back on near the Fields thing, Like, I
really do have questions about his longevity because one like
he hasn't been a great passer, not terrible, but not great,
and like he just takes so many sacks, and which
is Pennix is the anti Fields in that regard, Like
he does not take sacks at all, which coaches are
gonna love if Fields continues to take sacks at the

(09:49):
raid he has or did when he was the starter
in Chicago, Like he's just not gonna last as a starter.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
No coach is gonna put up with that. He is
a sack magnet.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, And I only have them three spots apart. So
I don't hate the argument against Fields at all. If
you want to take penex Overfields, that's fine. I just
like I said, no rushing upside his even with a
guy like Burrow. We have Burrow at four because he
doesn't run right, and the other guys do, the top
three do. So I just I think I'm lukewarm.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I'm just not at it's worth noting that quarterback and
tight end we didn't have a ton of like there
wasn't as much disagreement there as there is it running
back and receiver, Like like there are some names where
it's like, okay, you're like a round apart on overall,
but like you're both generally high on Drake may right,
you know.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
This is our first one too. This is we'll get
We'll get the gloves out.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, the gloves. But Penix is interesting because there's uncertainty
there in both directions right about what the ceiling could
be and what the four really is because we just
haven't seen that much of it yet at the NFL level.
So I thought he was an interesting one to include here.
Let's go to the running backs, where, like I said,
were there were kind of more options here. The first

(11:04):
running back that I want to start with, and I
picked this guy and he's almost representative of some of
the other running backs that we did, you know, we
couldn't pick all of them. But James Cook. Now this
is somebody who positionally you're only five spots apart. It's
RB eleven versus RB sixteen, which is not nothing that
early on. But it's not like you're, you know, twenty
spots apart at the position you are twenty spots apart overall, Bogman,

(11:27):
you have him RB eleven, thirty second overall FITS. You
have James Cook RB sixteen, fifty second overall. This is
in line with a lot of the other running backs
early in terms of positionally. You know, there's small differences,
it's not crazy, but on the overall, by and large,
FITS is much lower here Bogman. You know Breise Hall,

(11:49):
you guys aren't that far apart positionally. You have him
nineteenth overall fits as and thirty second, Jonathan Taylor eighteenth
and thirty third, Kyron Williams twenty nine and thirty nine.
There's a lot of these early running backs types that
even if positionally they're on the same tier for you,
are a lot further apart in the overall rankings and
where you would take them in a startup. So Bob Man.
I'll start with you on this one because you're the
high man here, James Cook, I do want to talk

(12:11):
about individually, but also from a larger perspective being earlier
on all of these running backs.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, I'm just willing because I work in a smaller timeframe,
specifically in that initial draft. FITZI and I have spoken
about it, right, and I think the right way to
build is to skip the running backs early. So I
wouldn't take a bunch of these running I wouldn't go
three running backs without a wide receiver or anything. But

(12:37):
I haven't ranked where I would be willing to reach
on a running back early to get an advantage in
year one, right, I think FITZI isn't so if we're
just looking at a thirty thousand foot foot view of
the running backs overall, and why I have them ranked
higher than probably a lot of dynasty rankers and FITZI
is because I'm I'm looking to win in my first

(12:59):
two years. Fitz sets up for the future in those
first two years. So I think that is a fundamental
difference in at least the rankings for an initial draft
that we would have fits.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
Does that sound about right to you for the breakdown
of why we see the discrepancy.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
Maybe not entirely.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
First of all, just for sake of clarity, this is
our overall rankings, where we have Cook bogs at thirty
two fifty two. That's for one QB overall. We would
both have him lower in super flax, we'd shoot work
some quarterback a.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Bunch of quarterbacks up there.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, so all right, So obviously it was a complete
fluke that James Cook scored eighteen touchdowns last year, like
he had scored nine touchdowns in his first two seasons combined.
And it's just sort of crazy that Cook scored that
many touchdowns in a year when Josh Allen also had
double digit touchdown runs. But everyone realizes I think that

(13:56):
Cook is in for a haircut on his touchdown total.
I think Cook has probably maxed out on his usage.
He's averaged about thirteen carries a game the last two years,
pretty close to max potential I would think for a
one hundred and ninety pounds back, and Cook has really
not been that prolific a pass catcher like he does
add some value there, but he's averaged two point three

(14:19):
catches a game the last two years and Cook's teammate
Ty Johnson actually led all running backs in air yards
last year, which is kind of a crazy stat but
it shows the Cook's pass catching appeal is maybe capped
a little bit because one, the Bills don't throw to
their backs a ton, and two he's not the only
guy catching passes and generally that's just sort of it.

(14:42):
The Bills have this mantra for their offense. Everyone eats
like they use three running backs, they use a bunch
of different receivers and tight ends.

Speaker 4 (14:51):
Cook is going into the last year of his deal
with the Bills.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
If he stays in Buffalo, he's going to continue to
be part of this ensemble cast. Now, maybe he goes
elsewhere and plays a bigger role, but then he would
probably be in a less potent offense that isn't capable
of scoring sixty two touchdowns the way the Bills did
last year.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Bogman, anything more on Cook, Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
If we're talking specifically about Cook, I mean he's still
tied for six and carries inside the five, and that
was with all those touchdown runs from Josh Allen to
a lot of those were from outside the five, where
Alan will just pull it down and run like a
crazy man. Right, That's what Josh Allen does. But I
think one of two things is gonna happen for Cook.
I think he's in for another big year this year
as a primary back for the Bills. And yes, I

(15:35):
think Ray Davis gets a little bit more. And yeah,
he's probably not getting eighteen touchdowns again. But I just
think I think he's gonna be good again. And I
think he's gonna get paid by somebody and they're gonna
make him a feature back. He has had close to
three hundred touches before. I don't I'm not saying that
it's going to be smart, but I do think someone

(15:55):
is going to do it. There's going to a lot
of running backs for free agents next year. The class
is going to be like it was this season. Either,
So I you know, let's say Joe Mixon decides to
hang him up. Nick Chubb isn't anything in Houston and
he winds up in Houston as their main guy, right, Like,
I could easily see that happening. So I think he
either goes somewhere or he stays in Buffalo with this

(16:17):
potent offense getting these carries near the goal line. Next
to next to Josh Allen. So I think I'm just
pretty positive on James Cook's uh ARC overall, even though
I'm not like as a player, I kind of feel
like I'm luke warm about him, like Fits he is,
but in terms of fantasy production, he's gonna get it
in Buffalo, and if you go somewhere else, I think
he gets paid.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
If you want to jump into your own Dynasty debates,
join our Fantasy Pros Discord community chat with other fans
to get access to exclusive amas that wind up on
our podcast feed. Here's our current schedule, Bogs and Fits
at five eastern every Tuesday through the end of August.
Myself in Fits at five eastern on the first Tuesday
of every month. Come get your questions answered and be
on the show at Fantasy Pros slash Chat. All right, guys,

(17:02):
when running back that Fits is higher on than Bogman
is traveon Henderson as I'm all the way up at
RB eight, that's twenty ninth overall, Bogman at RB fifteen,
forty eighth overall fifth, you're the high man here. Why
do you like Henderson so much?

Speaker 4 (17:18):
All right?

Speaker 3 (17:18):
So, most Dynasty leagues are PPR leagues, so passing game
usage really matters, and Trevion Henderson is going to play
on passing downs wherever he goes for the entirety of
his career. He's a smooth pass catcher, super dangerous after
the catch, so good on screens, and Henderson is a

(17:39):
terrific pass blocker even though he's not a very big dude.
He's also going to have a role on early downs.
He's an electric runner, especially on outside runs. Averaged a
touchdown a game over four college seasons. Henderson's got a
rock solid floor and a high ceiling. Really excited about
his NFL career in Bogs. There is just no way

(18:00):
James Cook should be ranked ahead of Henderson. Like, Henderson
is younger and he's a better prospect than Cook was.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay, yeah, I mean, listen, I'm jealous of the stones
that you have with Traveon Henderson here, and I'm i
am jealous and my comp to him is a Chan.
Do you think that's fair? Yeah? Yeah, so, but ah,
Chan and Cook and Traveon Henderson are all guys in

(18:28):
the same window that shouldn't be much more than three
hundred touches. Travon Henderson comes in to the NFL as
a guy that has had injury issues at the collegiate level.
Last year worked out great him and Judkins, so I
still think he's a stud. I think he's great. But also,
according to the way that Ramandre Stevenson's contract works out

(18:51):
right now, at least looking at overthecap dot commas where
I go to see these details, he is not of
value to cut until after the twenty twenty sixth season.
So I think when you're really rebuilding this offense initially
with the Patriots, right, it may just be the fact
you may be right, like, look, Henderson is just too good.
Stevenson is you know, the tread is worn thin, he

(19:16):
fumbles too much, He's not that good. Maybe Henderson just
pushes Stevenson out. But I think while you're rebuilding this offense,
there is potential to potentially split carries more than necessary
to kind of save Henderson a little bit. It's not
the way the NFL usually works, not the way you
want to do things, But I think a guy with
an injury history coming in shouldn't be three hundred touches.
And you have a guy that you're overpaying right now,

(19:38):
maybe give him a little wear and tear initially so
to me, and I'm I think I'm right in consensus
with Henderson. I love that you think it's outrageous that
I have Cook over Henderson, and maybe it is, like
I'm easily willing to say that, but I just I
think Henderson is limited in his touch, which limits his.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
He is about twelve to fifteen pounds heavier than Cook
and h Chan.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Okay, let me ask you this, bagman, what would you
need to see early this season to feel like, Nope,
I was too low, Henderson needs to be up. Like
what would that need to look like for you?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Like a seventy to thirty snap percentage between Stevenson and Anderson,
which could easily come. That could be fine, and I
would be low on him then, and I would say
that I have Henderson probably in this grip, Henderson and Judkins.
I would put in a grip from like nine down

(20:36):
to fifteen. So that's kind of the group, the tier
that i'd be working with. I think, you know, I
don't think Omari and Hampton. I think Henderson is better
than Hampton, or Hampton is better than Henderson. So like
that's a line for me, no way in any world
I put Henderson over Hampton, so that's kind of where
I would stand. So I could move him all the

(20:59):
way up to he would be in that tier, but
I just have him at the bottom of it right now.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, I don't know if would have him as high
as eight, but I definitely I think I leaned closer
towards the Fit's side of this, because even if he's
not getting as many touches and just the snaps as
we would want from a top ten running back at Dynasty,
he's gonna be getting the valuable ones like to fits
his point about being PPR, and he's gonna be getting
the explosive plays we would imagine.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
So I do it right in your a chant right,
if you do everything right, you're a chance.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
I've been thinking of him as like a poor man's
junior Gibbs, where yes, there's another guy in that backfield,
but Gibbs is the guy that we all. He's not
as good as Gibbs. I'm not saying that, but like
that kind of stylistic match. And I really liked Henderson
to prospect, like, especially early on in his college career,
Like he was a guy I did a startup campus
to Canton League. Going into Henderson's sophomore season, he was

(21:52):
at the third overall pick. It was like bijon, like
Caleb Williams and then Trayvon Henderson.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
I forget the exact Him and Judkins last year were
a cheat cod at Ohio State. Yeah, and crazy one
two punch.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
I don't know if for more Stevenson is going to
have anything close to a David Montgomery roll for the Patriots,
like they were ready to throw him overboard for Antonio
Gibson last year with the fumbles.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Antonio Gibson had a couple of good numbers last year.
Like you look at his elusive rating is yack. It
was pretty pretty good.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Still, Yeah, let's go to a maybe less exciting running back.
But this is the widest gap on the list that
we're working off of today. It's Rashad White. And this
is somewhat mirrored in your guy. You guys are a
part on Bucky Irving. This is kind of the other
you know, the side of that coin fits RB fifty one,

(22:42):
one hundred and sixty fourth overall, Bogman up at RB
thirty five, one hundred and twentieth overall. So neither of
you is saying like this is this should be your
RB one or anything crazy like that, But there is
a sizeable gap there. Bogman again, this time ye're the
high guy. What is it that you like about White?
Or is this in your eye is the reflection of
being a little bit lower than fits on Bucky?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Oh no, I love bucket. Okay, So this is specifically
by yeah, yeah, and I think you saw and I
think the reason fits he is down on Rashod White
is that usage for Bucky went way up at the
end of the year Roger. Rashad White was coming off
the field, which look with a talent like Bucky. I'm
not gonna sit here and tell you that you should
like Rashad White because Bucky's not good. Bucky's amazing, But

(23:26):
I think Rashad White is better than a jag right.
I think if you put him in that same bucket
with like a Devin Singletary somewhere in that place, like
he's a he's a guy that could go somewhere next
year and his floor is at least a really good
third down back. I think he could turn in to,
you know, like a at the end of his career,
could be like Austin Eckler, So I don't think he's

(23:49):
a guy that gets pushed off of a team. And
he's a free agent after this season. So eleventh and
pass block Ray, He's gonna be in there as a
good third down back. He's had one hundred and sixty
five catches over the last three seasons. He's increased his
yack per attempt every single year, so he's been improving

(24:09):
between the tackles as well. So I just think Rashad
White is still a decent running back. I don't think
he's in Bucky's neighborhood. I think we ignore him because
of that, and we don't. This is one of the
few times where I'm like, let's look at this down
the road, not just for season one, because yes, this
year not big on Rashad White because Bucky's there and

(24:31):
the usage went way down at the end of the year.
But I think Bucky or excuse me, Rashaw White can
end up somewhere else next year in a much bigger
role as a third down back.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Fitz, you have Rashaia White ranked in a range of
like probably not really going to be on even any
of your rosters if he is like you're very willing
to move on from him. Is that, in your opinion,
a Bucky thing or is it just you don't like
White the player, a.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Little bit of both, so I don't want to talk
out of my both.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
My mouth here.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
And I talked about the importance of pass catching ability
in Dynasty, where it's mainly PPR leagues, and Rashad White
has been a proven pass catcher. But you know, whereas
Boggs says that the floor for Rashad White is good
third down back, I would contend that the ceiling for
Rashad White is probably a good third down back, Like
there's just no lead back up side here anymore. And honestly,

(25:25):
right now, he's not even the best third down back
on his own team. Like I think Bucky Irving was
a better pass catcher last year, Like Rashada White was
a guy who was in the right place at the
right time for the Buccaneers in twenty twenty three and
had this very productive fantasy season, even though the underlying
metrics said he was a pretty bad and inefficient runner.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
But I said that then too, I was like, look,
Rashad White could get pushed off this job by a
really good running back. I said that then, but I
also think that he's got a good floor as a
receiving back. You don't, well, here's the floor.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
I mean, Bucky Irving comes on last year, starts off
in a backup role, but as the season wears on,
Bucky Snapchair just continues to grow and grow and grow
on a weekly basis, and Rashad White Snapchair is falling
off the map.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
By the end of the season.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
Like in the Buccaneers last three games, Rashad White had
snaphairs ranging from twenty six point nine percent to thirty
seven point five percent, and he was out touched by
Bucky Irvin Irving in those last three games sixty four
to ten. So they pretty much just I mean, they
kicked for Shod White to the curb. And I don't
see why that's going to change because Bucky was just

(26:36):
electric last year.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
I mean it might not. I do think at that
point in the year, you're you know, you're pushing all
your chips in and Bucky is clearly better. So uh
is White and play as much as possible is White.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Somebody Bogman for you that you are like targeting like
that you let you want to be adding to your
teams because you are a head of consensus on him,
or is it more just like you think this is
the appropriate ranking, But he's not somebody that you're trying
to like necessarily get a throw in on a trade
or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
No, I want him. I want him in a trade,
but it has to be in a certain scenario, like
you know, like FITZI said, if I'm trying to win
this year, where Sean White's not my guy, He's not
a guy I'm gonna win a championship with this year.
But I do think if he ends up in you know,
let's say Alvin Kamara leaves New Orleans, they sign him
and draft somebody right now, he should third down back

(27:28):
in New Orleans at the very least, right just want to.
I think next year he'll go and find a situation
that behooves him, and it's not gonna be staying in
Tampa specifically, if they lower his snapshare down to like
thirty percent, I think he'll go somewhere else. And I think,
like I said, I just I do think he's better
than a jag and I think he at least has
a floor, which makes him like a low wind wide

(27:49):
a running back three for me. Moving forward. That's all.

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Al Right, guys, let's go into the wide receivers, which
is a really fun group. Here. Could have gone in
a lot of different directions. This is the one where
we're really initially kind of aiming to do about eight names,
but there were just too many good receivers to talk about,
so I squeezed in an extra one here. We'll start

(29:03):
with Marvin Harrison Junior. This is one where if you
just hear the numbers of where you guys have in
the rank, it doesn't sound that crazy far apart, but
it's early enough in startup drafts that it is kind
of actually far apart. Fits you have a wide receiver eleven,
bobmin wide receiver fourteen. Fits you have him sixteenth overall,
and Bobby you have him twenty fifth overall. So that's

(29:24):
a difference between like an early ish second round pick
versus an early third round pick, which is sizable when
you're that early, and there's so much talent on the
board in drafts, so fits Marvin Harrison Junior. Obviously, this
mega elite prospect coming into the draft gets put in
what we thought was this really excellent situation in terms
of he's going to get all the targets in the
wide receiver room. He has a capable quarterback. It just

(29:47):
didn't click. They used him in weird ways. He was
really up and down. You know, Kyler Murray did target
him in the red zone, but it didn't work in
the end zone specifically a lot of the time. But
this is still a young guy with talent who back
a little bit stronger this year year two. Do you
in ranking him this aggressively as a top sixteen player

(30:07):
again in one QB formats, do you see this as
enough because the situation hasn't changed, right, So do you
see this as he's going to take a step forward
on an individual basis? Do you see this as he's
going to take a step forward in terms of the
usage and what the Cardinals are doing with him. Do
you think there's going to be a step forward in
the chemistry between him and Kyler because you were ranking

(30:28):
him in a way that he needs to be better
than he was last year for this to pan out.
So where is it in that pie chart of his
production that you expect to see a step forward?

Speaker 3 (30:37):
You would think there would be a mandate for the
Cardinals for Jonathan Gannon, for Drew Petsing to get Harrison
untracked after spending the number four pick on the draft
in him. Now, whether it actually happens, I don't know,
by the way, just to set the record straight, Superflex,
I've got Harrison thirty second. Like, I would never take

(31:00):
him in the second round of a super Flex startup.
He's like mid to late third, I think, And honestly,
after throwing Haymakers at Boggs when we were talking about
running backs and Michael Pennix like, this is going to
be kind of a half hearted defense honestly because of
what you were just talking about Whorm like how it
did not click in year one. Like I have Harrison

(31:21):
ranked wide receiver eleven, but I think there's a pretty
clear top ten, and then I've got Harrison at the
top of a tier that also includes guys like Jackson
Smith and Jigba AJ Brown who's a little older, Tedoroe McMillan,
Garrett Wilson, T Higgins, Travis Hunter. I think the case
for Harrison is that he was a phenomenal college receiver

(31:42):
and was the number four pick in the draft. The
case against it just seems like he's in a really
bad situation, and the situation makes it kind of hard
to assess what sort of ceiling Harrison is capable of hitting.
Like we've talked about how Harrison had an averaged up
the two are going to thirteen point four yards last season,
and how odd it was that he was running these

(32:04):
deeper routes all the time, even though that's not really
his game. He's not a speed merchant. And Kyler Murray
has not been effective throwing to the middle of the field,
possibly because he stands five foot ten, like Harrison ran
three quarters of his routes on the perimeter last year,
despite pretty good success rates for him on routes over

(32:24):
the middle.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
So yeah, I have Harrison a wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Eleven, but I really don't have any beef with where
Boggs has him a little bit lower. And Harrison is
just one of those guys I'm really anxious to watch
in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
I'm hoping for more, but I'm worried we might not
get more.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
And by the way, it might sound like a really
drastic drop to say always all, he goes from sixteenth
to thirty two in superflex, But look how many quarterbacks
are I mean, QB sixteen Trevor Lawrence. So like this
is like Lawrence McCarthy, these are the guys in range
of QB sixteen and you're of.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Course I'm taking any quarterbacks ahead of Harrison in a
one QB. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
So it's it's that is why they're such a sizeable
drop there. Before I throw the bogs, Fitz, I just
want to ask you if you had to pick, say,
Marlvin Harrison Junior is going to be significantly higher than
this a year from now or significantly lower. Would it
be lower or would you be the optimistic side say
I think he's going to take that step forward.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
I don't think significantly higher because I don't think he
passes guys like neighbors. Brian Thomas, Drake London. I think
he could be could be comfortably inside the top ten,
but that's about as high as it gets. My guess
is that he's probably right around where I have him
wide Receiver eleven.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Bobby, what do you think about Harrison obviously a little
bit lower, but Fitz says there's not too much disagreement here.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Really, I think Fitz liking Harrison just got pulled into
the orbit of him hating Drey McBride. I think that's
that's more of what happened here than him loving Marvin Harrison.
But they are legit concerns about Harrison. I feel like
here and ninety ninth out of one hundred and ten
in catch percentage when targeted last season, fifty fifth in

(34:13):
yards per route run, seventy eighth in contested catch percentage.
He has the tenth most contested catches, which means he's
not getting a lot of separation, but seventy eighth in
contested catch percentage. The thing, the biggest thing that I
don't like about Marvin Harrison Junior going into this season.
I still think he's a very good wide receiver. Obviously,

(34:35):
I have him as a top twenty wide receiver and
there's still a lot of meat on the bone for
him to grow. But I hate the fact that he
changed his entire body after one really weird rookie year,
because I think you're going to get one of two
things to happen here. He's either going to turn into
Megatron and be able to run over everybody because you

(34:56):
had one mistackle force last year one, so you know,
putting this bulk on maybe like, hey, look I need
to win in these contested situations. So I'm not gonna
get this separation I did in college. Let me box
these dudes out. Let me be more physical and get
the job done that way. Either it's gonna work, or
it's gonna slow him down and turnham in David Boston
and give him leg problems because he's carrying too much

(35:18):
top weight. So you know that's getting a little too
granular most likely, but I think it's almost death by
a thousand cuts. You have Trey McBride here, he had
a down year, he changed his body, you know, like
there's all these little nagging things when it comes to
Marvin Harrison, Like what I want him to do is
shut all of us up, be amazing this year and

(35:41):
make himself a top ten wide receiver. That's what I
would love, But I just I'm not confident we're gonna
get it.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Let's go to a rookie wide receiver here that you
guys are a part of. And really I could have
picked either Ted McMillan or Travis Hunter. I went with
tet because I thought it was more interesting. Hunter. Obviously
we've talked a lot about and it's very easy to
make why people would kind of take a different approach
to him given that there's so much certainty with the
position there TET, though I like a lot personally fits.

(36:08):
You have a wide receiver fourteen twenty first overall, Bogmin
wide receiver twenty six forty fourth overall. We've been starting
with the guy who's higher, and let me start with
the guy who's lower this time Bogman again, Wide receiver
twenty six, forty fourth overall on TET. Why is it
that he's ranked in that range for you?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, And I'm just I was kind of floored that
Hunter and McMillan were put so high and then I
was so much lower than consensus in the initial you
know when I initially looked at this and we talked
about it even on this show before, where I have
a tier right from sixteen to twenty six and that

(36:48):
goes to me all the way down to where I
have McMillan at twenty six. So could he balloon up
in this absolutely, But I think people are ranking him
as if he's going to be Mike Evans, right, because
he's that type of physical body, a big guy making
contested catches over players. He looks like he's already going

(37:09):
to be the number one target guy by a wide
stretch in Carolina, and that all can be possible. But
he's not Mike Evans. And there are a lot of
naysayers on McMillan coming into the draft. I wasn't one
of them. I think he's going to be pretty good,
but I don't know. I think we're a little bit
too poly anna and a guy that we haven't seen
play one snap in the NFL yet. I hope he's great,

(37:34):
but I don't know that he's going to be great.
And I think a lot of these other rankings of
him so I just a little bit too much for me.
He's a wide receiver three for me, I can't have
him as a wide receiver two.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Fitz, I'm really curious to hear what you say, because
going into this conversation, I definitely lean more on your side.
I just don't see a path to him not getting
enough workload in this receiving room to a crew a
lot of fantasy points, and I think he's talented enough
to take advantage of it. I think Bryce Young stepped
forward in the second half of last season was legitimate
enough for him to, you know, support Ted McMillan as

(38:07):
a key fantasy asset. So I I just like the fit,
I like the player. I'm very in on him. Why
do you find yourself feeling maybe not aggressive, but just
ranking him higher than Bogman.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
For a lot of the same reasons you do, Worm,
And I'm I'm I can't hide my disappointment in Scott
Bogman right now, Like I know how much college football
he watches, and if he had some knits to pick
with the Teteroa McMillan prospect profile, Like, hey, I respect
Bogman's opinion on that kind of stuff immensely, but like
for it to be all about him falling outside the

(38:39):
top twenty receivers for Bogs for the reasoning that he
hasn't played an NFL game yet and has a blank
resume like that that's disappointing.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
It's not that he has a blank resumes, it's that
people think he's Mike Evans. He ain't. He ain't Mike Evans.
He's good, he's a big bodied receiver. But I mean,
we're putting him ahead of some good established players, that's
the thing. Like you immediately put him ahead of Jordan Addison.
I'm not going to do that. I thought Addison was
better than him coming out. I think DeVante Smith was

(39:09):
better than him coming out. And he's just automatically going
ahead of some of these guys because they're number two's
in their offense and he's going to get a ton
of targets. Ted McMillan is I just in terms of skill,
what's to stop the Panthers from adding somebody else next
to him next year and he becomes the number two.
I don't think that's an impossibility.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
I mean that's part of it, but that he is
going to be a number one right away. He's younger
than those guys, and like the prospect profile is arguably
just as good as it was for Addison and DeVante Smith.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
Like McMillan averaged.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
He averaged one hundred and eight point eight yards per
game over his final two college seasons. And like you know,
Noah Fafida is is not any sort of star at quarterback.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
For nobody played with him since high school.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Yeah, but this will.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Be the first time he has a non Noah fafeeda quarterback.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I mean, do you think do you do you think
McMillan is not Maybe we didn't talk about this enough
in the spring. Like, I think McMillan's a pretty advanced
rout runner andy six foot four, Like, the only real
knock on him is that he's not a burner.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
But well, I thought Keon Coleman was really good too,
and he didn't come down with a lot of stuff, right, So.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Well, McMillan had much better college numbers than than Kean
Coleman did.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
You also played in the Big twelve. So look, I'm
not I think McMillan is good, but I do think,
you know, I think Roma Doonza is better than him,
and Roma Doonsay had a bad year last year, right,
And I also think Bryce Young is not guaranteed to
be legitimate. I think it's just as likely he backslides
as he gets better. I think, do I think he's
gonna get better? Yes, if you asked me, I would

(40:45):
say yes. But is it within the realm of possibility
that he's not the guy? That is also true?

Speaker 1 (40:50):
So I think for me, Like, so he's wide receiver
eighteen in ECR, and you look at some of the
names behind him, like you mentioned Addison and Smith. I
think the reason why I'm really comfortable having him there
if not a little higher. Is less about McMillan, although
I think I might be higher McMillan than you, Bogman,
But I think it's more about the guys behind him.
Like we know DeVante Smith is going to be the

(41:12):
number two for as long as AJ Brown is there.
We know Jordan As is not overtaking justin Jefferson. There's
a chance Ted McMillan they add some great number one
stud piece that you know saddles in with number two
targets in this offense. But there's a chance that doesn't happen,
and he just has that you know, Runway Smith's four
years older and is locked into number two, you know,

(41:33):
unless AJ Brown were to move on. So and like
guys like Zay Flowers is two spots behind him, like
Teed's get I think he get way more touchdowns than
Zay will Roma Dunze.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Had a bad year. Zay is a better wide receiver
than Ted, I think too. And and by the way, again,
I have him in this tier sixteen to twenty six
with all the guys that we're talking about, So I
freely admit that, you know, by the end of the year,
could he be at sixteen instead of twenty six. Of
course he could be a wide receiver two. But going
into the year, I just can't put him ahead of

(42:03):
those other guys because I guess, I just I guess
I don't believe in him as much as other people do.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, I'm just looking at other guys in this tier,
like not your tier, but in the in ECR. You know,
it's like DJ Moore, DK Metcalf. Those guys are in
their late twenties now, yea, Terry McLaurin. It's gonna be
thirty soon. You know, I would just rather have have
Ted if I'm building out a team.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
And Bog says his fantasy teams have the fountain of
youth in their their team clubhouse, Like, you don't have
to worry about that.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
How about how about I'm just confident that I'm gonna
be able to pick the right guys in the rookie
how about that?

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Well, I think Ted is one of the right guys
in a rookie draft. So one guy that we already
talked about in this episode, James Cook. This month, if
you want a chance to win a signed James Cook
Bill's jersey for free, courtesy of our friends at Pristine
auction dot Com. All you have to do is subscribe
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(42:53):
so make sure to turn on those notifications so you
can know when new videos are up and to claim
your prize.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Those those red Bills jerseys are completely awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, that bring back the red helmet too, right, I
saw that. All right, Next receiver here, this is one
that I think everybody probably could have guessed was going
to be on this list of you know, widest Gavin rankings.
It's George Pickens. Unshockingly, Bogman has him higher wide receiver
nineteen thirty fifth overall, while Fits has some wide receiver

(43:25):
thirty one sixty first overall. So very wide gap here, Bogman.
You can go first here with you being the high guy,
and obviously you know a lot about Pickens wide SEVERER
nineteen feels aggressive, but I know you feel really confident
in the stake.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
All right, Yes, it's an insanely high ranking for George Pickens.
It's been talked about on this show before. You don't
have to take him where I rank him Okay, so
understand that, but I think you just get a ton
of upside. I don't think this guy got a fair
shake in Pittsburgh eighty eight and catch percentage, Yes, that's bad.
He also had miserable quarterback play since he's been in

(44:00):
Pittsburgh fourteenth and yak per reception twenty fifth, in yards
per route run eighteenth and a dot. He obviously has
a lot of issues in terms of being a locker
room guy and being a guy that is going to
produce on the field and not be lazy. But I
think that's maturity stuff. And I do think that once

(44:22):
you get shipped out, you're kind of on notice, right,
you got traded once. Now you need to do this stuff.
And by the way, also having Cede Lamb in this
room next to him, knowing, look, I'm not the number
one wide out anymore. I have to go out there
and prove this. I think that, added with the fact
that you get Dak Prescott, you have a lack of
a running game here in Dallas. I just think if

(44:44):
you see an improvement and effort in George Pickens, you're
going to see his real talent shine through to the top.
And I think he's going way too low. I think
he's much better. This is the one that the Steelers
are going to lose on in trading the wide receiver
on all these other deals. But I think even with

(45:04):
his antics in his locker room nonsense, he's still in
that positive and I think for fantasy you have to
view him as that as well, and a lot of
people just don't fits.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Again, it's not like you hit You're like crazy low
on Pickens, but you do have him as like a
midwide receiver three as opposed to a midwide receiver two
where Bogman has him and more of like an early
sixth round ish pick in a one QB format.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Do you feel like you are actively trying to fade
Pickens or do you feel like you are more just
kind of in line with everybody else in Bogman is
high high on Hickins not you know.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah, I got you warm.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
I have to be a little more conciliatory. I think
on the Pickens argument, I probably am too low, and
I do think Bogman is a little too high, and
probably the right ranking is somewhere in between where we are.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
It's probably what a easy R is I do have to.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Give Bogman some green though about like the you know guys,
the diva is getting their act together once they are
shipped out to another team, Like Antonio Brown and Terall
Owens were so much better after they went somewhere else,
Like they were totally straight laced after that.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Well, I get. My thing with Pickens is is he's
not doing stuff off the field right, Like he's not
getting duys or anything violent. It's all stupid things between.
It's laziness. It's straight up laziness. And you know, as
a young man, okay, some immaturity can be accepted. You're
growing up now, You're you've been traded, you're an adult,

(46:38):
you're a man. You're you're playing across from a guy
that should eat up coverage to leave you one on one. Now,
if you don't win here, then you're a nothing burger. Honestly,
So I think he's I think he's going to be
really good.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Yeah, But to your point, like it's true, the bigger
a diva you are, the better you have to play
to convince your employer that you're a headache. So you know,
that's always the concern, and we have to doc Pickens
maybe at least a little for that, and just because man,
if this guy is his head on straight, like even
as a blocker, like he will wreck guys as a

(47:14):
blocker if he is focused and on, and then sometimes
you'll see him just not even attempt to execute his blocking.

Speaker 4 (47:22):
Assignment, I guess.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
So the one other issue I have with Pickens is
that he has never been a big target earner. Like
he's averaged six point one targets a game over his
three seasons, and his high water mark was last year
seven point four targets a game. I don't think seven
point four is in his range of outcomes this year
with Ceedee Lamb, at least if Lamb stays healthy all year.
So yeah, I'm a little worried about that, And maybe

(47:47):
that caps is ceiling a little bit, but no question,
Like Pickens has just freaky ball skills. This dude is
an absolute acrobat with those crazy hot.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
He had a lot of drops last year. He's like
one hundred first and operate he was. He had only
at thirty eight percent win in contested catches last year, Like.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
You were knowing considering how well he just high points
it on those sideline throwers.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
That is not that is not what it should be.
He's clearly not playing with one hundred percent effort. And
I think if if the Cowboys can unlock it, Look,
there's funny guys with a ton of skill that never
did a damn thing because of their effort in in
the NFL. I just I don't think with as much
talent as he has, he can he can be like
this much longer. Yeah, he's got to he the the

(48:37):
Like you said, the talent has to match the problems
on it.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
But I do like the situation, like he could be
a sixty catch, thousand yard guy in Dallas, no question
about it this year. And I actually my Redraft ranking
is pretty close to where my Dynasty ranking is for him,
which is weird for a young player.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
But that's where the diva concerns come in from me.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
You want him as a wide receiver three or four
like that. That's what you want a fantasy swing Yeah,
on your fantasy team. You want him to be that
swing guy as your wide receiver three or your flex
play with upside. That's where you want picking.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
So that's that's how I've got him ranked.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I was gonna say, Boga, you have to have
him is the third round pick.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
But how did I start this? I said, you don't
have to take him where I have him rand.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
I'm really curious to see where he is, like what
team he's on a year from now, because because I
like the fit right now, I'm curious long term what
it looked like. We have one more receiver here, which
we'll go to. We're going a little bit long Jerry Judy,
and this one I just thought was kind of an
interesting We don't really talk that much about Judy on
the show. Obviously, he is disappointed relative's draft capital early on,

(49:46):
has had stretches where he looked really good. It's been
somewhat dependent on the quarterback play. That's a big question
mark right now. Fits, you've got him wide receiver twenty
nine fifty eighth overall, Bogman wide receiver thirty eight seventy
sixth overall. It's why do you like Judy?

Speaker 4 (50:01):
It's funny.

Speaker 3 (50:02):
It seems like Judy has been around for a long time,
but he just turned twenty six in April, so he's
basically just entering his prime.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
And last year we.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Finally got the Jerry Judy we had been waiting forever
since he was drafted fifteenth overall out of Alabama and
twenty twenty got ninety catches, twelve hundred yards, four touchdowns,
and that was with Judy averaging three catches and thirty
eight receiving yards a game in his seven games with
Deshaun Watson starting a quarterback. So I do realize the

(50:31):
quarterback position is still a major issue for the Browns,
although Judy investors are probably going to be pretty happy
if Joe Flacco makes a bunch of starts for Cleveland
this year. But it really does seem like the light
went on for Judy last season and the breakout was legit.
And look, this dude is really pretty good at what

(50:52):
are probably the two most important attributes for a receiver,
running routes and making yardage after the catch. And I
don't think wide receiver now twenty nine is too crazy
a price for.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
Him, bagman.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, So, I think what we see in Cleveland is
an effort to move away from the structure of the
offense that they had last season. Right, This is why
they drafted quinch On Judkins and Dylan Sampson, Right, is
because they want to run the ball more. They led
the league in pass attempts last year because they were
losing in so many games thirty what was it, thirty

(51:28):
eight point nine. But when Stefanski came to Cleveland, they
were twenty eighth in twenty twenty twenty eighth and twenty one,
twenty first in twenty two. It wasn't until they started
to lose some of these games. Twenty twenty three. You know,
Joe Flacco came in because Watson went down, they didn't
have a good running game to started to pass the
ball a bunch. I think you're seeing an effort to

(51:49):
restructure this, right, So we'll see what's going on with Judkins.
Of course, who knows, but the Browns have run this offense.
They might run the offense through Joe Flacco, that's possible,
But as soon as they go one in six, you
know they start, you're gonna see Gabriel, You're gonna see
Shad or Standards. You're gonna see a young quarterback coming

(52:09):
here and likely struggle. Right, So what is Judy gonna
be when one of those guys comes in. Maybe it's
a nice fit with Jamis Winston, Maybe it's not. So
I just think we saw we saw a glimpse of
what he might be. Right, we saw a glimpse of
what Jerry Judy could be if everything clicked. I'm not

(52:30):
sure everything clicked. I think it was a nice run
with Jameis Winston. I'm just really not interested in rostering
this dude. He seems volatile. They have no clear quarterback situation.
They want to run the ball more. I don't want
any part of most of the Browns offense that is
in the run game.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Let's hit on a tight end here quickly, and then
we wrap up with some mailbag questions. Thanks everybody for
sending those in. Like quarterback, there wasn't a ton of
huge disagreement on the tight end. The biggest one was
Isaiah Likely, who obviously is not the number one time
end on his team right now, at least going into
the season, but as somebody that's really talented and younger. Fifth,

(53:05):
you've got him tight end ten, Bogman tight end fifteen. Fifth,
you've got him one hundred and twelfth overall, Bogman one
hundred and fifty first overall, So a wider gap in
the overall then at the position, but not crazy far
apart either. Fifthy you can go first on this one.
What do you like about Likely? And is it just
as simple as if Andrews isn't there next year, we're
gonna love this guy.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
It is that simple, wor like very good pass catcher,
only twenty five years old, and he's a year away
from no longer being tethered to Mark Andrews. So and
we had talked about this, I think in a previous show.
In Likely's first three NFL seasons, in games that Mark
Andrews has missed, and there have been nine of them,
Isaiah Likely has averaged three point four catches fifty point

(53:47):
three yards and zero point seven touchdowns in those nine games.
That would work out to fifty eight catches for eight
hundred and fifty five yards and eleven touchdowns over a
full season. And those are like rock solid tight end
one numbers. So I fully expect Likely to be a
consensus top ten dynasty tight end at this time next year.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Bob, besides the fact that you're a Steelers stand why
do you hate it as a likely?

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Because he might not be in Baltimore either. He's a
free agent too, by the way, uh so he may
be gone. There's actually a lot of free agent tight
ends that are pretty good next year, Kyle Pitts.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Helloa, whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Okay, hold on, how about David and Joku. David and
Joku do anything for you.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
I've always been lower on a joker than others, but
I'll allow it as you're the point you're making. I
won't allow Pitts is the point.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Jake ferguson zach Ertz like maybe like.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
He's a much higher ceiling than zach Hertz.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
He does, but back in Baltimore, if he's in Carolina,
do I care?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Se see I do? I think the appeal of likely.
Sorry to cut you off, Bog, you keep going in
a second, but I think.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
You know, but you're the likely guy so well.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
I think the appeal of likely is that there are
two paths to him being a starting tight end next year.
One is he stays at Baltimore and Angel. The other
is the Ravens say, hey, we'll bring the Andrews back
in the cheap and Likely says I want to go
somewhere and get paid to be the number one guy. So,
whether it's Baltimore or not, I do expect him to
be a top the tight end depth chart on whatever
team he's on a year from now.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
I mean, you know, maybe he's on top of the
depth chart, but I mean we could see Pitt's breakout,
we could see Kincaid breakout, we could see Taylor or
Royal Ferguson strange like, there could be a lot of
tight end breakouts. So, you know, putting him higher than
where I have him, I just can't do because I
just think he's in a big group. Could he move

(55:34):
to the top of that group, yes, But I just
Baltimore is a perfect situation worm. But I think in
any situation that he goes to, he's still a big
slot and that's it. You know, he's not a blocker,
He's not a complete tight end. Like, let me ask
you this, FITZI, if we took if we took Isaiah

(55:56):
Likely and put him in, let's go with Carolina. Let's
say things are pretty good, Ted is what you expect
him to be. Now he's the second option pretty clearly
in Carolina and the Ravens trade for Michael Mayer next season.
Would you rather have Isaiah Likely or would you rather
have a guy like Michael Mayer who is a complete
tight end getting completely hosed behind Brock Bauers in Vegas.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Right, assuming Mayor is assuming Mark Andrews is gone from
Baltimore too, like Mayor's the guy. Yeah, I think i'd
still rather have Likely, But I understand the premise of
your right.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Yeah, And that's a fair argument. And I'm not saying
one is right or one is wrong. I'm just saying
I don't know where Likely is going to be next year.
If he's in Baltimore and Mark Andrews is gone, best
case scenario for him, I think, But if he's somewhere else,
I just don't know what it's going to look like,
what his usage is going to be, and who else
goes to Baltimore. Some of these other guys can step
up and have big years. I do like Likely. I

(56:57):
think he's good. I don't think I'm much further off
consensus than where he is. I am in the overall
but not in the positional, which, to be clear, I
don't really care about overall rankings. Positional is way more important.
But I think that there's just a lot of different scenarios.
And I don't mean to poop poo on your guy
at all. I think he's pretty good.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I think he's really good. And I will think that
even if he's not a balt where this isn't just
like a Ravens thing like, No, that's fair. I think Likely,
besides George Kittle, who's insane with the ball in his hands,
I think likely is one of the best tight ends
I can recall watching specifically with the ball in his hands.
He is very, very good after the catch, and he
just doesn't get the opportunity to do it that much.
He stiff arms guys, he like puts juke moves on players.

(57:38):
You just don't see that even out of really good
tight ends like brock Bauers is not doing that. After
brock Bars is much better tight end than Isaia like it.
But but for reasons other than after the catch. I
just think he's really good in that scenario. And if
a team is going to give him top two on
the on the team targets like he could get in
Carolina as an example, I'll be really interested in that.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Yeah. And by the way, you know, we're making the
arguments for and against these players. It's fun, But what
you really want is you want to be able to
see the upside in the downside of every player. That's
the point that you need to come away with here
is look, I can squint and see big upside on
this player. What is the biggest what is? But what
can they sink into? You need to consider both when

(58:18):
doing your rankings and when drafting.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Let's wrap up with some mailbag questions here. Appreciate everybody
sending these in. We're getting questions from Twitter, but I
did that because they don't always have the chance to
ask us questions on Discord. You can ask questions all
the time we were doing those chats that I mentioned
earlier in the show. There's also you know AMA channels.
You can ask Bogman and Fits and other guys questions
on there all the time. So fanspros dot com slash

(58:42):
chat if you have questions you want to ask ed.
They don't get answered, you know, on the show or
anything like that. These are some questions from Twitter slash x.
I keep calling you Twitter out of habit. One question here.
It's a half PPR league. You only have to start
two wide receivers. The rest of the league is fairly normal.
You know settings would you rather have Ian Thomas Junior
or Ash genty? There is no cost on the keeper

(59:04):
like have to give up a certain round or dollar amount,
nor any limit to the number of seasons kept. You
just get one of them again. Brian Thomas Junior or
Ash Genty fits. This is in a two wide receiver
league with one flex spot.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
Yeah, Genty because it becomes easier to fill those two
wide receiver spots. And there's a chance that you know,
Travis Hunter does have a measurable effect on Brian Thomas's production, Like,
I don't think that's going to happen, and I worry
that maybe, well I worry for the Hunter investors. He
might play a lot of defense in the coming years.
But yeah, I mean Genty could be a special running

(59:38):
back and in a two wide receiver league, there's a.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
Lot less stress at that position.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Bogwin eight for gent eleven for Brian Thomas, and I'm
glad we can get back to a greint on things
FITSI I'm exactly with you.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
So would you, guys have said Thomas if it was
a three receiver format, No.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I would still have gent, but it would be a
little bit closer.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Hold on. Let me consult my overall rankings here. I'm
just I think in that case I would have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Look, we're going three did you say three wide receiver
full PPR?

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
This is half PPR two wide receiver, which skews it
towards genty. If it's three receiver and let's call it
full PPR, then is that enough to get it to Thomas?

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I have Thomas one spot higher, assuming.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
Three wide receivers. Okay, fr and flip, Yeah, they're very close.
They're both awesome. Next question here. Also involving genty, fast
forward to August twenty twenty six, Naji Harris is on
the Saints and Omarian Hampton has cemented his place as
the workhorse slash BELCW for the Chargers. How significant will
the difference and outlook be for Hampton and ashon genty?

(01:00:46):
Moving forward? So that Naji Harrison the Saint stuff doesn't
really matter, just the idea that he's gone. How much
How different will it be between genty and Hampton if
Hampton is the guy on the Chargers bagman?

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Not very big? I mean right now, I feel like
I have it fairly close anyway, because I'm real big
on Hampton. I have him at eight. I have eight
chan at all right, excuse me? I have genty at four?
So could Hampton move past like I have him behind
Haul and Taylor right now. Yeah, I can move him

(01:01:19):
ahead of those guys. So yeah, not very far at all.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Fits right now I've got Genty at three and Hampton
at seven. The only reason I would still have a
gap between the two, and maybe the gap would shrink
a little bit. Greg Roman's offenses have not utilized the
running backs as pass catchers all that much, even though
that is a skill that Omari and Hampton absolutely has.

(01:01:44):
I just think Genty's pass catching ability is going to
get more of a It's going to be used more
in Las Vegas than Hampton's will.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
For the Chargers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Last mail bag question here, what is the best way
to assess your new dinings the league members experience or
fantasy skills if you don't know them before joining the league.
This is more of a macro level, obviously not referring
to a specific player. What do you think about that fits?
I'll read the question again, what is the best way
to assess your new dynasty league members experience or fantasy

(01:02:16):
skills if you don't know them before joining the league.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Do we think that he's talking about he's joining the
league with all new members, he or she or they're
vetting a new member.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
So when I read this question yesterday when it came in,
I was thinking the former that it was him, that
it was a new player joining his league, or to
the latter, I thought it was a player joining his league.
But now that I'm rereading it, I wonder if it's
him joining the league.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
I'm not actually sure this person may be joining the league.
If it's someone joining a league, maybe look at a
log of recent trades. I mean, it's kind of hard
to vet because they're the rosters and everything. I think
hopefully you know someone in the league and you can
just contact them and ask for a scouting report, or.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
You can chat right like, fire up a conversation the
league chat and say yeah, whatever, I'm looking for this,
or hey, did you guys see this piece of offseason news?

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
See how they react to Well, what's interesting is not
a good way is the idea of like, what if
this is a new league and it's like, oh, hey,
I'm starting its startup, it's with a bunch of friends
from college, do you want to join in on this?
So he doesn't know those other guys, you know, because
that could be the possibility to where there's not like
a previous history of the league to look at.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Is there money green?

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Yeah, I mean that's like you just kind of probe
and you engage people, whether it's the one person joining
the full league or the league vetting a new person.
Just reach out and communicate and chat and be friendly
and you'll probably if you start talking football, you're going
to get a pretty good gauge of what their fandom
and fantasy experiences.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
And as long as they're not ruining the vibe. That's
the thing in terms of a fantasy league, right, you know,
the first f in fantasy should be fun. Like that's
the reason we came to this, honestly, But before it's
anything else, it was fun, right, So like, just don't
bring in someone that's a bad time they're gonna run
the league.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
I think the best way is to somehow get access
to their phone. Check Spotify, see if they listen to
the Fantasy Pros Dynasty Football podcast. If they do, you
can be assured they will know what they're.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Their credit score.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Right, But yeah, I think you just kind of figure
it out as you go, and if it's really important
to you, like you only want to play in a
high stakes, competitive league, or you're more casual and you
don't want a bunch of sharks to take advantage of you.
Then you ask whoever it is that invited you to
the league, or or try to find out. The Other
thing I would say is if it's your league that
already exists and you're kind of trying to vet a

(01:04:53):
new member, I think if it's somebody that you don't
know their skills, you should be willing to if you're
the commissioner, be willing to step in and say, like, hey,
this guy's brand new. Okay, don't offer this guy a
fourth round rookie draft pick for Brian Thomas Junior just
because he doesn't really know what he's doing. Like, like,
I think it's okay. It's not handholding in my opinion

(01:05:14):
to do stuff like that, to say, hey, we all
started somewhere. Everybody kind of has to learn. The first
Fantasy league I ever played, and it wasn't a dynasty legue,
but the first guy I ever played in I dropped
rookie Adrian Peterson in like Week three for like no
real reason. It's just I don't know what I'm doing, right, Like,
you know, we all have to learn somehow, So I
think it's okay to kind of step in and say, like, listen,
this is like not a trade you should be making.

(01:05:36):
And you know, even if the league doesn't have vetos,
say you know, we're all trying to figure it out
together at various points. Everybody starts somewhere, right, So yeah,
I think it's okay even if they don't have experience
and skills, is what I'm saying, and try not to
take advantage of them. But thank you again for the question,
to everybody who sent those into Kelly, Sammy, and Michael
for tweeting those questions. We'll do some of these more

(01:05:57):
throughout the rest of the summer. Here the opportunity to
answer specific questions, We'll go ahead and wrap up there.
I hope everybody enjoyed the Dynasty rankings debates Forfeits and Bogman.
I'm Ryan Warmley. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you
next time. Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Dynasty
Football podcast. If you love the show, the best freeway
to support us is by leaving a positive review on

(01:06:17):
Apple Podcasts or Spotify, Follow us on x, Instagram, and
TikTok at Fantasy Pros and subscribe to our YouTube channel
at YouTube dot com. Slash Fantasy Pros

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Is Marvin Harrison Jr. A WR1? | Dynasty Rankings Debate (Ep. 258)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Is Marvin Harrison Jr. A WR1? | Dynasty Rankings Debate (Ep. 258)