June 14, 2025 • 47 mins
To The Contrary newsletter author Charlie Sykes examines the escalation of Trump’s actions since his first administration. Ed Luce details his new book Zbig: The Life of Zbigniew Brzezinski, America's Great Power Prophet.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and Iran has struck back with missiles
heading into Tel Aviv. We have a great show for
you today to the Contrary Newsletters author or Trolley Psych
stops by to talk to us about the escalation of
(00:23):
Trump's actions from Trump one point zero to Trump two
point zero, the sequel authoritarianism. Then we'll talk to Ed
Luce about his new book, Ziebig, The Life of Zobignieff Brazinski,
America's Great Power Profit. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Molly, You're going to be shocked to hear this, but
Trump really feels like picking a fight with the courts
when it comes to some of these immigrants because they
know that there are achilles heels that will make these
policies he ran on fall and they're refusing to release
Bubbu Khalil despite the judge.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, who could have seen this coming? Oh? I know everyone, Look,
this is so much absolutely not what we want to see,
not what anyone wants to see. If the Biden administration
had a student that they had kidnapped and we're keeping
(01:22):
because he had been whatever. They can't even cook up
a reason to have him detained. This is real authoritarian
stuff and they don't want to release him. And I'm
going to bring I'm going to just read a quote here. Okay.
The government is using all its tools available to delay justice,
(01:42):
says Brett Kaufman, it's senior counsel at the ACLU. The
government practically never holds people in detention on a charge
like this, and it's clear that the government is doing
anything they can to punish my mood for his speech.
We will not stop until he's home with his family,
so I think, and you know, the administration is not
(02:03):
responding to the courts. It's missing it's deadlines. I mean,
this is the kind of stuff where this is like
the slow rolling authoritarianism. Right. They're just doing things like
they're ignoring the law, they're ignoring the courts, they're breaking
the rules, they're doing the kind of stuff that you
do when you're an authoritarian. And it's not okay. And
(02:26):
it's why people are going to hit the streets tomorrow
in a peaceful way for the No Kings protest. And
when you're listening to this podcast, there are going to
be protests all over this country, and they're going to
be protests for Donald Trump to know that he is
not a king, that he is an elected president and
he there are checks to his power. And just because
(02:47):
Congress doesn't take its job seriously, the rest of us
very much do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So, RFK, you'll be shocked to hear said Congress medical
disinformation to defend his co vaccine schedule change. And just
the same way he lied about who he was going
to reappoint for the vaccine panel.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, remember when when RFK Junior said he was not
going to fire anyone and he was not going to
go after vaccines. By the way, what has he done.
He's gone after vaccines. By the way, the most dangerous
time to get COVID is when you're pregnant or your elderly.
And we know from living through COVID in real time
(03:27):
that pregnant women get affected by COVID in just a
significantly more profound way than non pregnant people women. And
so this is just a completely crazy thing to do.
And what it's going to mean is, you know, it's
just crazy. So basically this is the story. RFK Junior
(03:50):
decides to change the US policy on COVID vaccines because
remember this guy got in office because of COVID right
people could not process this once in a lifetime pandemic.
Trump was able to get these RFK anti vaxxers. They
supported him, and now he's letting RFK just completely destroy
(04:11):
our healthcare in this system. So basically, this doctor at
Baylor said, it's so far out of left field, it's
insulting to members of Congress that they would actually give
them something like this. They're relying on these agencies to
provide them with valid information, and the agencies are providing
them with laws. He has been making announcements on x
(04:33):
and also in the Wall Street Journal editorial page when
he announced that he fired all the doctors. You're not
going to be able to trust the information. I mean,
this is what we're seeing already, is the information that
comes out of this government is no longer trustworthy. And
that means that we are really able to rely on
the federal government for less and less. And I have
(04:53):
to say, like as someone who we all pay a
lot of taxes here and it's it's just hard for
me to understand why states like California are going to
put in their federal taxes if they're not getting federal services. Right,
Like Trump is going to get rid of FEMA, right,
He's saying he's going to get rid of FEMA. He's
(05:15):
saying he's going to get rid of food saved, all
sorts of things that the federal government does. And I
don't think that Trump understands that, Like, there's no reason
for California to pay in on taxes. Federalism exists because
the federal government provides services. You get rid of those services,
and all of a sudden you have states that maybe
(05:36):
don't want to pay into the federal government. And that
means that those the other states, the Red States, the Alabamas.
You know, you separate California out of America, the country
really gets broke real fast. So I think Trump is
playing a dangerous game here.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Agreed. So at Appeals Court has temporarily allowed Trump to
keep the National Guard in LA after the first court
said that he had to relinquish control to Gavin Newsom.
This seems like this is another one of the very
big wars that's going to happen, but is not getting
paid attention to you. With all the breaking news out
of Israel today.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
We see this right. Trump has tried to federalize the
California National Guard. It was you know, Mayor Garland on
the Fifth Circuit said no, you can't do that. Now
the Appeals Court is saying, maybe you can. This will
undoubtedly go up to the Supreme Court. My guess is
that the Supreme Court will say you can't do this.
And my guess is it'll be five to four the
(06:33):
three liberals, Roberts and Amy Coney. My guess is the
other Trumpet justices will be like our mango God can
can do anything. But I do think, like Roberts, understands
just how insane it is to have a president federalizing
the National Guard, you know, taking over another state's national
Guard because of some fake, fake protests, you know, I
(06:56):
mean they're not fake, but it's a mile of protests,
square mile protes and Trump is using them and trying
to exploit them to connect with his base, which you know,
there's not a need for the federal Guard in California,
which is what the governor and the mayor keep saying.
So I think that the Supreme Court, I think they're
(07:18):
luckily there are five pretty sane. I mean, I don't
agree with Justice Amy, but I think she's probably going
to be right on this. Charlie Sikes is the author
of the two The Contrary Newsletter and the book How
the Right Lost Its Mind. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Charlie Sikes.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's good to be here, It's good to be anywhere
this week.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Ah so it is like again, like Trump one point zero,
just a complete flurry of news to the point of
every story is moving so fast and furious. But I
think we should first talk about Alex Padilla, the Senator
from California who went to a Christy Nome presser and
(08:09):
wanted to ask a question and got pounced on by
a bunch of her goons.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
For lack of a better word, yeah, I mean, look,
you know, let's cut through some of the bullshit. You know,
try to imagine Ron Johnson being, you know, wrestled to
the ground in Wisconsin, or Ted Cruz being wrestled to
the ground in Texas, or Lindsey Graham shows up at
an event and he is is handcuffed in South Carolina. Okay,
(08:37):
try to imagine that. Okay, me neither. I can't do it.
I just can't. So that's where where I would urge
people to have the bullshit meter for all the people explaining, well, okay,
he wasn't wearing his secret service pin, like no one
recognized the United States senator from California. In California, nobody
knew Christy Nome and he her entourage didn't notice what
(08:59):
was was happening here. I mean, and I said this,
you know, in my newsletter. You know, as outrageous as
it was the way he was treated, I think what
was much worse was the reaction, because you could certainly imagine,
you know, in a rational, decent universe, people would say,
if Healing made a mistake, really sorry, you know, Senator Padilla,
let's you know, let's find a way to disagree civilly.
(09:20):
But they didn't. They doubled down, and frankly, if you
look at maga, you know, Maga social media, they are
loving this. And I think the Trump that the Trump folks,
the Maga folks, I mean, they get a kick out
of this sort of thing and expect more of it,
and they're grooming themselves. I mean, they're they're grooming the
base to expect and ask for more of this. So
(09:44):
the fact that we got the gas lighting, the hypocrisy,
the lying, that's bad enough, but the fact is that
they are actively now celebrating it, and you can just
see they're all two messent about it. We humiliated in
an Hispanic US senator.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. And it
does feel like there is a bottomless appetite for this
kind of authoritarianism.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
You know, they like this.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I mean, people need under well and you know, right
wing media I'm talking about the fever swamp media is
pushing for more aggressive, you know, harder enforcement of the law.
And quite frankly, this is tapping into Donald Trump's it.
You want to talk about the week of the Ugly American,
the ugly American, he has loose troops on American streets
(10:31):
and the rhetoric that he's using. You know that if
protesters come out, you know, during my big beautiful military parade,
we're going to hit them very hard, making no distinction
between violent and non violent protests. So again, it is
Trump and full I could I disagree with one thing
that you said, though you said it's just like Trump
one point zero.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
We're having that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
This Trump one point zero feels like a kind of gentler,
more innocent time for sure, compared to we haven't because
everything now, frankly seems a bit existential in what Trump
is doing. It is it is as if all the
masks have been just ripped off and there's there's no pretense,
and we're going to see this sort of red Square,
(11:15):
you know, demonstration in Washington, d C. But by the way,
Saturday is going to be lits. It's gonna be that's
gonna talk about a news day wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So let's talk about I'll be giving a talk at
a book festival in Nantucket. So you know your your
New York Times best selling book.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I'm guessing yes, but I mean, but it is it's
very hard for me to multitask. But I want to
talk about so this is going on, we are seeing images.
I want to talk about an image that I saw
two days ago, which was worker field workers, right fruit
pickers in California being chased down by ice agents and cars.
(11:57):
So let's talk about that this is a job Americans
don't want. They won't take it right. It's the reason
that they are hiring people to do this job is
because it's a job no one wants. It was so
incredibly disturbing and Craven I want to connect that to
the Trump truth quote unquote where he said people are
(12:17):
complaining to me they're losing their people. So talk about that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, that was an interesting walkback, wasn't it. You can
tell that obviously had somebody from the agriculture industry who
was having drinks or dinner at Margo Lago and said, hey,
you know, this is kind of hard to run all
of our farms. By the way, I knew this here
in Wisconsin that the dairy farmers were never into mass deportation.
They understood all of this. So it gives you some
(12:44):
sense of how policy is made in this administration. I'm
trying to imagine how the Stephen Millers of the world
would have reacted to anyone else saying what Donald Trump said.
You know, we have these good people who are working
hard here, you know, and in the farms. We have
to leave them alone. We're just going after the criminals.
I mean, this this thing is really a shit show.
And I think that you really, you really saw that.
(13:04):
And by the way, though, the thing about the enforcement
of you know, the immigration law, is that I know
it's gotten a lot of attention, but I just it
was just before he came On here reading a story
by Katherine Rampell in the Washington Post about the ICE
agents who are basically have become secret police. They refuse
to identify themselves. They're wearing masks. They're going around, you know, arresting, detaining,
(13:28):
you know, brown people, and you know, to live in
a society in which you asked for a cop to
show his badge or his ID and they refuse and
they're wearing masks. Right now, if you're an immigrant or
you're a non immigrant and somebody comes to your house
and is arresting people, how do you know who they are?
I mean, it is a dangerous, dangerous, ugly situation.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And there's actually reporting of a story of a woman
who got where he said he was an ICE agent
and it turned out he was just a random guy
and stole his as knowlargs from I mean, there's a
reason that we have police marked like this. I mean,
what I think is so interesting is like, you know,
when Elon was running our federal government. You'll remember that
(14:11):
from season one. Yeah, it was really like season three,
right or season five, I don't know whatever. We're in
In this nightmare, he learned a lot of things about
the federal government in real time right like what it did.
It feels like we're learning why police are identified, why,
you know, like Trump is learning these sort of things
(14:33):
that we had, you know that you could have asked
anyone in the world and would have told you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, I know. Maybe it is interesting watching the learning
curve of all of these guys. You just kind of
hope that, you know, as as Donald Trump actually learns
how things work, that we don't have that moment where
he goes, what happens if I pushed this button? Oh,
I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Hey, by the way, we're talking about Senator Piddie, I
forgot the most fucked up part of that story. Yeah, okay, yeah,
the Corey Yeah, yes, yes, the fact is okay. So
there's nothing wrong. And there's a videotape of the one
guy that realized how bad it was the way they
were treating is Corey Lewing Dawski. Corey no pacifist, not
(15:15):
at all, but apparently traveled around with Christy Nomes. Still,
I did not even know that that was a thing.
So he runs down the hall and says, let him go,
let him go. So how fucked up was it? That
even Corey fucking Lewindowski knew it was fucked up. I
need to make a bumpy shuck up. Yeah, yeah, I
would say, so.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, yes, that's true. And so let's talk cause and effect.
Trump is at least the polling I've seen, and there
are some other rest mutant polls that showed Trump is
the greatest North Korean president ever. But the regular polls
that I've seen show him to have the highest disapproval
rating that he's ever had, sixty percent.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
No, I mean, look, there's a lot of things that
he's doing that I think they are appealing to his base.
I mean, you watch what he's doing, and if let
me reverse engineer, if you look at the wooliest Harry's
corners of right wing social media, you can predict what
the administration is going to do next. I mean read
Steven mess to do it right, right. But this is
(16:18):
not what Middle America swing voters I think we're looking
for now. I don't know how the polling is going
to play on Los Angeles. I've tried to prepare people
for the fact that, you know, Americans might actually react
to the you know, burning cars and the Mexican flags
and say, we will like what Trump is doing. But
(16:39):
I just I'm I've got a new mantra right now
that I don't care whether he's winning. Okay, it's not
a winning losing thing. Sometimes it's just right and wrong.
And so let's say in fact that he does get
the upper hand on his use of the military. I
don't think he is. I think it's a losing issue
for him. But let's just say that he is. It
doesn't matter because there is something about losing causes that
(17:01):
have always appealed to me. And if democracy in did
right up the rule of LAWND and and all that,
if that's a losing because I don't care, let's let's
let's draw the r. I'm well, as.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We're talking about this, I'm going to read you a
new Reuters IPSOS poll. Thirty five percent of adults approve
of Trump's response to la the thirty five fifty percent
disapproved by a plus nine adults say that the president
has gone too far with the arrest event.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So, and that's from g Elliott Morris, who's a very
smart pollster and ran five thirty eight and knows of
what he speaks. So I do think that ultimately this
is a.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Loser for well, we'll see. I mean, you know, we're
living in a news cycle right now where things are
happening very very very quickly. You know, you have one incident,
do you have one can state like incident with you know,
shooting protesters or the other way around. Uh So on this,
I just I do think that it's very very important.
(18:05):
Two things, very very important. I think for Democrats we're
critical of and those of us are critical of Donald Trump,
to make it very clear that that we are not
defending a rationalizing violence in any way whatsoever. The protest
massive and they should be peaceful, peaceful and impact.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Violence undermines the message.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's a gift to Donald Trump. I'm just trying to imagine,
for example, you know, watching the protests over the weekend
with masses of American flags and maybe don't tread on
me flags, and then watch the way law enforcement reacts
to that. Make it hard on that, make it hard
on Trump. Don't make it easy on Trump.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yes, flags, definitely American flags, I think, And don't tread
on me that snake, that ridiculous snake. I think it's
very good. So Donald Trump got played this week too,
And I want to talk about that, because it seems
like there's quite a lot of spin coming out of
this White House about Israel and Trump's relationship, Trump's great,
(19:04):
great relationship with Israel. This is on the heels of
Trump's Trump's Trump's great, great relationship with Bottomer Putin. But
with times he.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, talk to me, No, I I agree with you.
In fact, it is interesting how many people are buying
this spin that you know, the US was really you know,
joined at the hip with with Israel, and they were
they were using this misdirection. It was kind of secret
and we and we misled everybody. That really does seem
like it's kind of retrofitting onto what we actually know
(19:35):
that the Trump was caught flat footed. You saw the
statement from Mark Rubio. Once again, you find a lot
of these guys who kind of under look, you know,
who understands Taco that you know that Trump Trump always
chickens out. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you could your
chickens out. You know, understands Taco. Vledimer Putin understands it. President,
(19:58):
she understands it, and he, yeah, who understands it? And
so I think you are seeing that play out right now.
But there's kind of a flop sweat around Trump saying
we were part of that too. Really, really we were
part of that. Hey, could I join the club?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, he looked weak and in impotent and really out
of step. Plus I want now, the world is an
incredibly dangerous place at a time when we have you know,
a costplaying you know, idiot like Peter Hexath in charge
of the Department of Defense. So it is a very
very dangerous time and probably one of the worst times
(20:33):
to be staging a stupid parade and using American troops
on American city streets.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah. I think that's right. And I just want to
go back to the Marco Rubio tweet. So Marco said
he had it with most This administration and subsequent administrations
have been very careful with their language around Israel, saying
they support them basically no matter what. And in this tweet,
Marco sort of says, you know, we weren't really involved
(21:00):
in this in a way that makes it clear that
this was them playing along by themselves. And then Trump
comes in and says, no, no, I knew all about this.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
No, but it is interesting that I feel like we've
been talking about Israel bombing Iran to destroy its nuclear
capabilities for the last twenty five years now, and again
it's hard to have a really solid opinion on this
because we're in the fog of war. We don't know
what was accomplished. And well, I mean, at the end
of this process, will will Iran be capable of developing
(21:34):
a nuclear weapon or not? There are all kinds of
things that can go wrong when you're bombing nuclear facilities.
So again, first, you know, the first tranch looks like
a successful military operation, in fact, rather stunningly successful for
the Israelis, but again two days from now, who knows.
(21:54):
I mean, that's it. There's so much uncertainty out there,
and this is exactly the moment when you want solid thing,
reasonable people in charge.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Unfortunately, not a Fox News host, Yeah, but I do
think for reality TV host as president. Yeah, but it is. Yes,
So I just want to just add it's not really
a fact check, but net NYA who has now been
saying for thirty three years that Ron was getting a nuke,
(22:27):
it seems like a lot of years.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Well something was going on. I mean, one of the
interesting questions will be why, now, why did they do this?
Was it because there was intelligence they were nearing a
bomb or is it because somebody wanted, you know, wanted
a distraction. We just don't know. Benjamin Netanyahu now has
opened a multi front war again. Maybe he has the
resources to be able to pursue this, but this doesn't
(22:55):
feel like it's going to be the slap fight of
the first time that they that they exchange missile. Remember
the first time Iran basically said we're going to retaliate
and then they sent those slow moving missiles all the
way across which were easily shot down. That had kind
of a Kabookie Dan's feel to it. I am guessing
that this will not be like that at all.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, and I also think it's important to remember that
this is you know, Natanya who really wants to stay
in power, right and he works from a very similar
playbook to Donald Trump, and so this getting in war
is a good way to stay in power.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Well, I mean, these are all the questions that you have.
You know, normally, I'll be honest with you, I would
normally have given the Israelis the benefit of the doubt,
except for Benjamin Natanyahu for exactly the reasons that you said.
But again, we're going to see how the rest of
the Mid East reacts, how the world economy reacts to
all of this, whether or not you know what the
level of you know, damages to Israel. I mean, this
(23:55):
is this is the potential for a major war. I
mean it's yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And so far we're seeing oil prices spike, so that
is and again, I just want to get back to this.
Trump's central thesis when he ran for president was that
this second time he said these things, right, that what
we knew were lies, but we couldn't. Necessarily people didn't,
you know, they weren't. People wanted to believe. He said,
(24:22):
I'm going to make things cheaper, right, I'm going to
you know, groceries gas, right, I'm going to make it cheaper,
and I'm going to end forever wars. So that seems
like neither of those things are happening.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Well, you know again, both those things now are on
the bubble. And you you know, the polls that you
are citing, which which suggests that he's below forty percent
on approval ratings, would suggest that it's not working. Now again,
I am I am really struck by the way when
you're eu roytous poll is very, very interesting because Donald
Trump in the White House and with sitting in the
(24:59):
Oval Office with Stephen Miller, is absolutely convinced that things
like what's happening in Los Angeles are winners for him,
that they take away from the losers. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you think you think about like about a
week and a half ago, there was the Night of
the Bright Shiny Objects, when the Elon Musk thing was
was the big story, and that that was there was
that fight, and it looked like he was about to
(25:20):
cave into China on terrace. So he dropped all of
these things all at once. Remember he dropped an order
on a travel band and everything. Then of course they
followed by los An Well, these are all things that
that he thinks are like in his wheelhouse, that he
really thinks this is the red meat, and it is
red meat for his base. But you know, I think
(25:42):
that Steven Miller has talked him into thinking, you know,
the more cruelty, the more brutality, the better it is
for you. That may turn out to be one of
the great miss miscalculations, which by the way, would go
a bit, actually a long way to restoring my faith
in the American people. If they look at this and go,
I'm sorry, No, we think this is fucked up. We
(26:05):
have retained enough dignity and enough perspective that we are
not going along with this sort of thing that it's
not going to be nineteen seventy all over again.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, and I think that's a real question. I do think,
you know. I just read this incredible William F. Buckley
biography by Sam tennant House, which I recommend highly. Yeah,
because I'm traveling, I'm having the best time.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I'm just reading.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
But you know, I don't have to mean it's just me,
So I'm just reading books and going up. Yeah. Well,
I'm a little confused. I go to the wrong I
go to the wrong place, and I miss the plane.
But I'm good. But I read this incredible William F.
Buckley biography, and in it, tenant House talked about how
how much the country really has changed, and that pushback
(26:52):
in the seventies, these cultural shifts, these you know, these backlashes.
They they sort of you know, you two steps forward,
one step back. So I don't know that you can
do back to the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, no, I you were never going back to the
nineteen fifties. But a lot of these guys you can see,
are are thinking that are thinking in previous decades, you know,
how how did hey, how did the public react to
uses of force and strength? But again, this is this
is really very very close to the essence of trump
(27:26):
Ism right now, which is strength versus weakness, brutality being
a sign of manliness. There's a reason why Christy Nome
has become the ice Barbie. And we all we sort
of made fun of her, you know about the whole
shooting her puppy in the face, but they shooting the
puppy in the face story was written as part of
a resume to get a job in this administration. She
(27:46):
got the job that she wanted in this administration, and
it's turning out to be just as deplorable and stupid
as we thought she would be. But again, they feast
on all of this. So I think the thing to
keep watching for always is hubrious, the arrogance of hubris
and going too far. You know, this is an administration
(28:08):
that honestly believes it has all the cards that it
is immune what could possibly go wrong? And by the way,
one thing we haven't talked about was that in the
run up to the big beautiful military parade. You also
had that appearance at Fort Bragg where clearly I think
that Donald Trump is doing two things. He's by deploying
(28:29):
the troop, he's trying to desensitize Americans to the use
of military force. But he's also right now hoping, I think,
to radicalize the US military and the security apparatus in
this country, radicalize the troops, grooming them to be instruments
of MAGA. So you put all of those things in
(28:51):
a line, and it is deeply dangerous and ominous. And look,
I agree with you that I mean Trump. I'm still
you know, I have PTSD from Trump one point zero.
But Trump, you know, always had guardrails. And you know, yeah,
when he wanted to shoot protesters, you know, you had
you know, the Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper in the room.
You had Mark Milly, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
(29:13):
of Step in the room. You even had Bill Barr,
the Attorney General, saying you can't do that, mister president.
There is no one around Donald Trump who's going to
tell him no.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
This time around.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, that's right, That's exactly right. Charlie Sikes, thank you
for joining.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
US thank you. New York Times best selling author of
Mullay John Fast.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Ed Luce is the Financial Times Chief US commentator and
the author of Zie Big, The Life of Zybignief Brazinski,
America's Great Power profit. Welcome to Fast Politics, Ed Loose.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Such a pleasure to be with you, Marley always Okay, Ed, so.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You have a book, talk to me about this book,
and then we have many other things to discussed.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Okay. This is a biography of Big Brashinski. You know,
Henry Kissinger's great rival in the Cold War and afterwards,
and there's never been a full life biography of him,
and his life is really quite cinematic, you know, from
from inter War Poland to Washington and the heights he
scaled here. And I was given the diaries he kept
(30:22):
as National security advisor to Jimmy Carter, extraordinary troves of letters,
correspondence with Pope John pulsecond. And when you start sort
of going through this primary material others haven't had access to,
your excitement mounts. And the more you find out, the
more you you want to find out. So it's just
it's a work of It's the most exciting project I've
ever worked on. It's certainly the biggest, the biggest I
(30:44):
should say.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Do you think the world would be better off had
Brazinsky been the lead? Is Brazinski's worldview a little bit
better worldview?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
He was oddly known as a hawk when he worked
for Carter, but as very much a dove. He sort
of redeemed himself with the liberal wing and the Democratic
Party after nine to eleven, and particularly his criticisms of
Iraq War and his endorsement a few years later of
Obama for the same reasons, because Obama had opposed the
(31:14):
right war. But during the seventies he and Kissinger had
utterly different views of how to confront the Soviet Union
in the Cold War, and I would say that Razhinski
gets the better of that argument. I mean, he was
a Soviet toller. He was this great Harvard scholar, as
was Kissinger. Then became a Columbia scholar, and he predicted
the Soviet Union was going to unravel, it was going
(31:35):
to collapse of its own weight. It was Moriband, you know,
run by old man had this thing which he called
reverse natural selection, where it only promoted the least innovative,
least creative people. And Kissinger thought the USSR was a
permanent feature of the landscape. So I think the way
Rashinsky put his scholarship to work in trying to sort
of help peacefully unravel the Soviet Empire was pretty impressive,
(31:59):
and I think I think on the Cold War he's
a more effective figure than Kissinger. Kissinger was a lot funnier,
but he was a lot less principled, right.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's sort of his thing. What are the lessons that
we can learn from that period? It was a lot
of sort of unmaking and making on the foreign stage.
What are the lessons we can learn right now that
could connect to where we are right now?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Well, I would say that, you know, we are living
today in that sort of revenge of geopolitics era. It's
a more complicated era because this is, you know, a
multipolar world of many great powers, not just the two
superpowers you had facing each other off in the Cold War.
But what we had I think in between was a
little bit of a holiday from history. I mean, one
(32:45):
of the great things about Brazhinsky and to be fair,
Kissinger was they were steeped in knowledge of the world
that they were sort of trying to shape, and the
languages Brazinski spoke fluent Russian. Right now, I think with
the Trump administration, we have, you know, to put it
very politely, an a strategic worldview, which is a posh
word for stupid. And I don't think we've got too
(33:07):
many Chinese speakers around or curiosity or scholarship or expertise
on the world outside. So we've got this guy who's
trumpoo sees the world as a jungle, and you know,
there are predators, and there are a prey, and if
you dress like an antelope and walk like an antelope,
he's going to eat you. And if Putin does the
same in his sphere of interest, Russia's backyard, and China
(33:29):
does in its own backyard, that's all fine with Trump.
That's how big predators operate. And really the Brashinski world view,
and they had a lot of the same problems. Iran,
of course, was cartis undoing, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,
the non invasion of Poland, suppression of Ukrainian activism. Then
a lot of these same problems, you know, are with us,
(33:51):
but we don't seem to have that burning curiosity and
therefore the sort of strategic thoughts, whether you agree with
them or not that come from knowledge and burning curiosity.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Let's talk about there we are right now in an
American life. There is this trade war with China that
is likely not to go away. So you know, there's
been backing down and backing up. But I would love
you to give me this sort of your sense of
how to balance this uncertainty, well, the.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Achina war trade war. I mean, there's a poem nursing
rhyme in English about the grand old Duke of York
who marched his men to the top of the hill
and marched them down again. And what Trump has done
with tariffs is a great folding. I mean, he escalated
to a peak very rapidly after quotation marks Liberation Day April.
(34:43):
And you know, on the basis lifelong held belief that
trade wars are easy to win, he has discovered they're
not easy to win, and so he's marched his troops
down to the bottom of the hill again. So now
we have market relief, a market rally, restoring some of
the losses that Trump you know, inflicted self inflicted on
(35:03):
the US bond market as well as the equity market.
But the world's trust and I'm including here America's friends
as well as its enemies, who Trump has kind of
driven together, which is posit of strategy. There's a trust
factor here, or rather a mistrust factor. If you do
a deal with Trump, how long does it last? One week,
one year? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That is the thing that I think is so striking.
And again, so much of what's happened in the Trump's
second administration is benefited from the destruction that it already
engaged in the Trump's first administration. But I just wonder
when you look at this question of trust. During Trump's
(35:48):
first administration, the world did the same thing, right, They
pulled away, They got together and made deals that didn't
include us because Trump was so a rational and could
make a deal with him. But tomorrow will be out.
He seems both a little more rational than he did
last time, but also a lot more in bolder.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I would agree that he's I mean, I think Trump
two point zero is trump Ism squared. We had a
dress rehearsal in his first administration, but he was surrounded
by people who muffled or blocked his worst instincts. Now
he's surrounded by people who amplify them. So that's a
very different situation. He's in office after the most improbable campaign,
(36:30):
following an attempt to overturn an election, I mean, a
clear strike at the US Constitution, at the republic, and
he managed to get elected anyway. So you can understand
why he's walking on air. At least in his own head,
he thinks he's indestructible. And so America's partners, whether they're
you know, adversaries or friends across the Atlantic. Canada in particular,
(36:55):
I mean, are experiencing Trump a lot worse than they
did first time round. I mean, remember, I remember first
time round he did arm twist Canada and Mexico to renegotiate,
and after as as MAACA as they called it, the
first thing he did on trade after he was inaugurated.
This time round was declared the renegotiated and after his
(37:15):
deal to be a terrible deal. Of me, what's the
point of breaking a deal?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
When you look at where we are as a country
right now, do you see like a world where we
were turned to normalcy after this?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
It's really difficult to picture, and I'm not sure. I'm
not sure how I would define normalcy anymore, you know,
because I think the Democratic Party is untouched by this.
It has to adjust, it has to change quite radically,
and I don't see signs of that at the moment.
I mean, I appreciate that this system doesn't, you know,
provide as a parliamentary system does a leader of the
(37:50):
opposition and a government in waiting. It is a different system,
So it is more difficult to frame a response of
resistance to what's going on. But there are really urgent
challenges here that you know, don't just rely on. It
seems to me that Chuck Schumer and others have one strategy,
which is just you wait until the midterms. And I'm
(38:11):
not confident, you know, this will be the same republic
by November twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, I've not either. I'll volunteer my thinking here too,
because this is an important question. But like, what do
you think is the most important thing your person listeners
podcast being super freaked out? What do you think is
the most important sort of pro democracy thing that normal
people can do?
Speaker 4 (38:33):
They can I think, respond to leaders. There are too
many around, but there are people like Chris Murphy, I
think JB. Pritzka, AOC. I think these people have shown
sort of courage and principle and they can reward those
who are showing that. I don't think it's a particularly
impressive act nowadays to sign up to Kevin Newsom's podcast.
(38:54):
Let's put it that way. This sounds like sort of
weak tea, because the truth is, leadership has to come from,
you know, people who are capable of leading, and then
we will respond. We sort of talking of But there
are tons of the political equivalent of what JFK calls
numberless small acts of kindness. There are numberless small acts
(39:14):
of resistance, solidarity, pressuring, you know, companies that are bending
the need to Trump punishing them. I mean, just pull
the cord on whichever platforms are bribing Trump. It's extraordinary
the sorts of money that he's heaving.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I do feel like there has been quite a bit,
and I think there'll be a lot more pushback, and
you do see I mean they're losing in the courts.
Those things do give me a live phole.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I would agree with that. I think today, which is
what mid May compared to a mid April, I'm a
lot less pessimistic. I'm certainly not optimistic, but I'm a
lot less pessimistic about civil society, about people's awareness you know,
this has been a crash course, this is an ongoing
teachable moment and so people's society's response is evolving. So
(40:04):
I mean, you're right, and the courts have thrown a
lot more grit into the wheels than you might have imagined. Nevertheless, yes,
we're going to get to Supreme Court rulings, you know.
And Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, who I actually did an
on stage interview with the Weekend, a very tough, contentious
interview as you might imagine at the Kennedy Center, which
(40:25):
you know, probably will cause me to pee double cancels
by some of my friends, but it was nevertheless a
very very revealing exercise. He doubled down on Stephen Miller's
call for a suspension of habbyiest Corpus. Why what was
the bullshit excuse that the courts were essentially thwarting the
(40:46):
will of the people.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
But it's not the will of the people, it's the
will of the monarch.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Indeed, But unfortunately that was the lens through which he
was interpreting democracy, which is this sort of sovereigntist thing
these Curtis yave.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
But even for Ris Jarvin is not happy, right, and.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Culter seems to be unhappy. I mean there are different
Laura Luma seems to be unhappy, very unhappy. Yeah, to
be unhappy with the sort of theft in broad day well,
the bribery in broad daylight. But when fanatics are unhappy
with you, it's not necessarily because you're not being fanatic enough.
I think it's because you're being incompetently fanatic.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I tend to skew overly optimistic, which is why I
try to be mindful of that. But I have to
wonder if it's possible that this thing that saves us
all is the incomfidence.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I would hope. So, but what does Trump do when
he's really backed into the corner? I fear that he
will sort of. He's got a tool kid with Project
twenty twenty five. He has got the likes of Stephan
Miller and Rick Ridell around him, and these people do
believe in the suspension of Happiest Corpus. And you know
I should mention, I asked Bannon if the Supreme Court
rejected that basically Trump's deportation efforts down or at least
(42:03):
the ones without due process, so that all of them
must have due process would you advise Trump to ignore it?
And balanderclined to answer that what happens in that scenario
is a tremendously important moment. It's coming at some speed
or other. That moment will come, as several such moments
will come.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's funny because it's I mean, it's not funny. Actually,
I mean it's disturbing, but it's funny and strange. It
does feel as if what Trump is doing is not popular,
but Trump doesn't really care, right, I mean, that's sort
of where we are.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
His trip to the Gulf, you know, to Saudi Arabia,
to Emirates and gutter, and you compare that with the
America first sort of rhetoric that he's sold to the
mega base. You know, this is Trump first, This is
an America first. You know, he takes a jumbo jet
from Guitar because Boeing is allegedly late on it's delivery. Boeing,
(43:01):
in spite of recent problems, is one of the great
sort of corporate icons of the United States. He's choosing Ghata,
which has played host to Hamas by the way, I
mean right, of course, find a student on a foreign
visa who I think mostly with completely false allegations he
can link or his people can link to Hamas, he
will cancel their visas and deport them, but he'll accept
(43:23):
a four hundred million dollar gift from the Emirate Kingdom
that there's been hosting and funding hamas for many, many years.
So this is Trump first, and I think that shows
that you're right. He doesn't really care. It's about him.
It's about his enrichment, his family's enrichment. The number of
towers and golf courses that are going up all over
(43:43):
the Gulf, but also in other countries like Serbia. Eric
and Donald Jr. Were in Serbia, they were in Belgrade,
they were in Budapest, in Hungary, Victor Bands Hungri They're
getting deals in these countries, which, just to tie it
back with my book Brijin calls the Alliance of the Aggrieved,
you know, led by China and Russia, but with Iran,
(44:05):
with North Korea, and with a sort of bunch of
countries that want to bring the system down, that feel
like they were on the losing side of the Cold
War and are now coming back. This is the revenge
of geopolitics, and Trump is kind of with them. These
are the people who are enriching Trump. The Prime Minister
of Canada, Mark Carney, cannot give Trump a jumbo jet.
(44:25):
He can't pledge a sort of phony l and s
six hundred billion dollars in America over the next decade,
because he doesn't have the power to do that, because
he's the leader of a democracy. There is no distinction
between public and private. In Saudi Arabia, the country is
named after its ruling family. There's no such thing as
a conflict of interest. So these are countries Trump likes.
It's they operate in the style he wishes to emulate,
(44:49):
so they have a massive advantage over democracies to be
able to do deals with him, to get preferential trade terms. Again,
I have to stress for Trump's benefit, not Americas.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, Ed Lewis, I hope you'll come back.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
That's a delight to be with you, Molly. I'd love
to come back.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
No more, exactly, Jesse Cannon.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
So, Molly, there is a press conference yesterday on the
space coast of Florida that was bonkers. Now, some people
who have been paying attention will know that Florida has
been leading the way and saying that you can't protest anymore.
And there's been some pushback on this, but this seems
like one of those moments where it's like, you know,
(45:34):
we really better start stocking up some acl you lawyers
down here, because some of this rhetoric was very bad.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So a Florida sheriff issued a stark message to protesters
planning to demonstrate this weekend against increasing ice arrests. He's
a sheriff called ween Ivy.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I should also say we will kill you dead. Is
more than a stark message.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yes, is throw a breck of fire bomb or point
a gun, they will be killed. If you block an
intersection or roadway, you are going to jail. If you
free arrest, you are going to jail. Tired, because we
are going to run you down and put you in jail.
If you try to mob rule a car, gather round it,
(46:20):
or refuse to let the driver leave, you are most
likely going to get run over and dragged across the street.
This reminds me of the sort of white nationalist of
the nineteen fifties, kind of terrifying Jim Crow South Wallace type.
George Wallace. Yeah, so this guy, I just want to say,
(46:43):
he reminds me a little bit of like a terrifying
authoritarian from another time, and we're not going to play.
This is a constitutional right that we have the right
to protest. It comes before the right you have to
have guns, and quite frankly, fuck that guy. That's it
for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
(47:09):
Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics
make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and Iran has struck back with missiles
heading into Tel Aviv. We have a great show for
you today to the Contrary Newsletters author or Trolley Psych
stops by to talk to us about the escalation of
(00:23):
Trump's actions from Trump one point zero to Trump two
point zero, the sequel authoritarianism. Then we'll talk to Ed
Luce about his new book, Ziebig, The Life of Zobignieff Brazinski,
America's Great Power Profit. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Molly, You're going to be shocked to hear this, but
Trump really feels like picking a fight with the courts
when it comes to some of these immigrants because they
know that there are achilles heels that will make these
policies he ran on fall and they're refusing to release
Bubbu Khalil despite the judge.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, who could have seen this coming? Oh? I know everyone, Look,
this is so much absolutely not what we want to see,
not what anyone wants to see. If the Biden administration
had a student that they had kidnapped and we're keeping
(01:22):
because he had been whatever. They can't even cook up
a reason to have him detained. This is real authoritarian
stuff and they don't want to release him. And I'm
going to bring I'm going to just read a quote here. Okay.
The government is using all its tools available to delay justice,
(01:42):
says Brett Kaufman, it's senior counsel at the ACLU. The
government practically never holds people in detention on a charge
like this, and it's clear that the government is doing
anything they can to punish my mood for his speech.
We will not stop until he's home with his family,
so I think, and you know, the administration is not
(02:03):
responding to the courts. It's missing it's deadlines. I mean,
this is the kind of stuff where this is like
the slow rolling authoritarianism. Right. They're just doing things like
they're ignoring the law, they're ignoring the courts, they're breaking
the rules, they're doing the kind of stuff that you
do when you're an authoritarian. And it's not okay. And
(02:26):
it's why people are going to hit the streets tomorrow
in a peaceful way for the No Kings protest. And
when you're listening to this podcast, there are going to
be protests all over this country, and they're going to
be protests for Donald Trump to know that he is
not a king, that he is an elected president and
he there are checks to his power. And just because
(02:47):
Congress doesn't take its job seriously, the rest of us
very much do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So, RFK, you'll be shocked to hear said Congress medical
disinformation to defend his co vaccine schedule change. And just
the same way he lied about who he was going
to reappoint for the vaccine panel.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, remember when when RFK Junior said he was not
going to fire anyone and he was not going to
go after vaccines. By the way, what has he done.
He's gone after vaccines. By the way, the most dangerous
time to get COVID is when you're pregnant or your elderly.
And we know from living through COVID in real time
(03:27):
that pregnant women get affected by COVID in just a
significantly more profound way than non pregnant people women. And
so this is just a completely crazy thing to do.
And what it's going to mean is, you know, it's
just crazy. So basically this is the story. RFK Junior
(03:50):
decides to change the US policy on COVID vaccines because
remember this guy got in office because of COVID right
people could not process this once in a lifetime pandemic.
Trump was able to get these RFK anti vaxxers. They
supported him, and now he's letting RFK just completely destroy
(04:11):
our healthcare in this system. So basically, this doctor at
Baylor said, it's so far out of left field, it's
insulting to members of Congress that they would actually give
them something like this. They're relying on these agencies to
provide them with valid information, and the agencies are providing
them with laws. He has been making announcements on x
(04:33):
and also in the Wall Street Journal editorial page when
he announced that he fired all the doctors. You're not
going to be able to trust the information. I mean,
this is what we're seeing already, is the information that
comes out of this government is no longer trustworthy. And
that means that we are really able to rely on
the federal government for less and less. And I have
(04:53):
to say, like as someone who we all pay a
lot of taxes here and it's it's just hard for
me to understand why states like California are going to
put in their federal taxes if they're not getting federal services. Right,
Like Trump is going to get rid of FEMA, right,
He's saying he's going to get rid of FEMA. He's
(05:15):
saying he's going to get rid of food saved, all
sorts of things that the federal government does. And I
don't think that Trump understands that, Like, there's no reason
for California to pay in on taxes. Federalism exists because
the federal government provides services. You get rid of those services,
and all of a sudden you have states that maybe
(05:36):
don't want to pay into the federal government. And that
means that those the other states, the Red States, the Alabamas.
You know, you separate California out of America, the country
really gets broke real fast. So I think Trump is
playing a dangerous game here.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Agreed. So at Appeals Court has temporarily allowed Trump to
keep the National Guard in LA after the first court
said that he had to relinquish control to Gavin Newsom.
This seems like this is another one of the very
big wars that's going to happen, but is not getting
paid attention to you. With all the breaking news out
of Israel today.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
We see this right. Trump has tried to federalize the
California National Guard. It was you know, Mayor Garland on
the Fifth Circuit said no, you can't do that. Now
the Appeals Court is saying, maybe you can. This will
undoubtedly go up to the Supreme Court. My guess is
that the Supreme Court will say you can't do this.
And my guess is it'll be five to four the
(06:33):
three liberals, Roberts and Amy Coney. My guess is the
other Trumpet justices will be like our mango God can
can do anything. But I do think, like Roberts, understands
just how insane it is to have a president federalizing
the National Guard, you know, taking over another state's national
Guard because of some fake, fake protests, you know, I
(06:56):
mean they're not fake, but it's a mile of protests,
square mile protes and Trump is using them and trying
to exploit them to connect with his base, which you know,
there's not a need for the federal Guard in California,
which is what the governor and the mayor keep saying.
So I think that the Supreme Court, I think they're
(07:18):
luckily there are five pretty sane. I mean, I don't
agree with Justice Amy, but I think she's probably going
to be right on this. Charlie Sikes is the author
of the two The Contrary Newsletter and the book How
the Right Lost Its Mind. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Charlie Sikes.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's good to be here, It's good to be anywhere
this week.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Ah so it is like again, like Trump one point zero,
just a complete flurry of news to the point of
every story is moving so fast and furious. But I
think we should first talk about Alex Padilla, the Senator
from California who went to a Christy Nome presser and
(08:09):
wanted to ask a question and got pounced on by
a bunch of her goons.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
For lack of a better word, yeah, I mean, look,
you know, let's cut through some of the bullshit. You know,
try to imagine Ron Johnson being, you know, wrestled to
the ground in Wisconsin, or Ted Cruz being wrestled to
the ground in Texas, or Lindsey Graham shows up at
an event and he is is handcuffed in South Carolina. Okay,
(08:37):
try to imagine that. Okay, me neither. I can't do it.
I just can't. So that's where where I would urge
people to have the bullshit meter for all the people explaining, well, okay,
he wasn't wearing his secret service pin, like no one
recognized the United States senator from California. In California, nobody
knew Christy Nome and he her entourage didn't notice what
(08:59):
was was happening here. I mean, and I said this,
you know, in my newsletter. You know, as outrageous as
it was the way he was treated, I think what
was much worse was the reaction, because you could certainly imagine,
you know, in a rational, decent universe, people would say,
if Healing made a mistake, really sorry, you know, Senator Padilla,
let's you know, let's find a way to disagree civilly.
(09:20):
But they didn't. They doubled down, and frankly, if you
look at maga, you know, Maga social media, they are
loving this. And I think the Trump that the Trump folks,
the Maga folks, I mean, they get a kick out
of this sort of thing and expect more of it,
and they're grooming themselves. I mean, they're they're grooming the
base to expect and ask for more of this. So
(09:44):
the fact that we got the gas lighting, the hypocrisy,
the lying, that's bad enough, but the fact is that
they are actively now celebrating it, and you can just
see they're all two messent about it. We humiliated in
an Hispanic US senator.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. And it
does feel like there is a bottomless appetite for this
kind of authoritarianism.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
You know, they like this.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I mean, people need under well and you know, right
wing media I'm talking about the fever swamp media is
pushing for more aggressive, you know, harder enforcement of the law.
And quite frankly, this is tapping into Donald Trump's it.
You want to talk about the week of the Ugly American,
the ugly American, he has loose troops on American streets
(10:31):
and the rhetoric that he's using. You know that if
protesters come out, you know, during my big beautiful military parade,
we're going to hit them very hard, making no distinction
between violent and non violent protests. So again, it is
Trump and full I could I disagree with one thing
that you said, though you said it's just like Trump
one point zero.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
We're having that.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
This Trump one point zero feels like a kind of gentler,
more innocent time for sure, compared to we haven't because
everything now, frankly seems a bit existential in what Trump
is doing. It is it is as if all the
masks have been just ripped off and there's there's no pretense,
and we're going to see this sort of red Square,
(11:15):
you know, demonstration in Washington, d C. But by the way,
Saturday is going to be lits. It's gonna be that's
gonna talk about a news day wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So let's talk about I'll be giving a talk at
a book festival in Nantucket. So you know your your
New York Times best selling book.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I'm guessing yes, but I mean, but it is it's
very hard for me to multitask. But I want to
talk about so this is going on, we are seeing images.
I want to talk about an image that I saw
two days ago, which was worker field workers, right fruit
pickers in California being chased down by ice agents and cars.
(11:57):
So let's talk about that this is a job Americans
don't want. They won't take it right. It's the reason
that they are hiring people to do this job is
because it's a job no one wants. It was so
incredibly disturbing and Craven I want to connect that to
the Trump truth quote unquote where he said people are
(12:17):
complaining to me they're losing their people. So talk about that.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, that was an interesting walkback, wasn't it. You can
tell that obviously had somebody from the agriculture industry who
was having drinks or dinner at Margo Lago and said, hey,
you know, this is kind of hard to run all
of our farms. By the way, I knew this here
in Wisconsin that the dairy farmers were never into mass deportation.
They understood all of this. So it gives you some
(12:44):
sense of how policy is made in this administration. I'm
trying to imagine how the Stephen Millers of the world
would have reacted to anyone else saying what Donald Trump said.
You know, we have these good people who are working
hard here, you know, and in the farms. We have
to leave them alone. We're just going after the criminals.
I mean, this this thing is really a shit show.
And I think that you really, you really saw that.
(13:04):
And by the way, though, the thing about the enforcement
of you know, the immigration law, is that I know
it's gotten a lot of attention, but I just it
was just before he came On here reading a story
by Katherine Rampell in the Washington Post about the ICE
agents who are basically have become secret police. They refuse
to identify themselves. They're wearing masks. They're going around, you know, arresting, detaining,
(13:28):
you know, brown people, and you know, to live in
a society in which you asked for a cop to
show his badge or his ID and they refuse and
they're wearing masks. Right now, if you're an immigrant or
you're a non immigrant and somebody comes to your house
and is arresting people, how do you know who they are?
I mean, it is a dangerous, dangerous, ugly situation.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
And there's actually reporting of a story of a woman
who got where he said he was an ICE agent
and it turned out he was just a random guy
and stole his as knowlargs from I mean, there's a
reason that we have police marked like this. I mean,
what I think is so interesting is like, you know,
when Elon was running our federal government. You'll remember that
(14:11):
from season one. Yeah, it was really like season three,
right or season five, I don't know whatever. We're in
In this nightmare, he learned a lot of things about
the federal government in real time right like what it did.
It feels like we're learning why police are identified, why,
you know, like Trump is learning these sort of things
(14:33):
that we had, you know that you could have asked
anyone in the world and would have told you.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, I know. Maybe it is interesting watching the learning
curve of all of these guys. You just kind of
hope that, you know, as as Donald Trump actually learns
how things work, that we don't have that moment where
he goes, what happens if I pushed this button? Oh,
I wasn't supposed to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Hey, by the way, we're talking about Senator Piddie, I
forgot the most fucked up part of that story. Yeah, okay, yeah,
the Corey Yeah, yes, yes, the fact is okay. So
there's nothing wrong. And there's a videotape of the one
guy that realized how bad it was the way they
were treating is Corey Lewing Dawski. Corey no pacifist, not
(15:15):
at all, but apparently traveled around with Christy Nomes. Still,
I did not even know that that was a thing.
So he runs down the hall and says, let him go,
let him go. So how fucked up was it? That
even Corey fucking Lewindowski knew it was fucked up. I
need to make a bumpy shuck up. Yeah, yeah, I
would say, so.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Yeah, yes, that's true. And so let's talk cause and effect.
Trump is at least the polling I've seen, and there
are some other rest mutant polls that showed Trump is
the greatest North Korean president ever. But the regular polls
that I've seen show him to have the highest disapproval
rating that he's ever had, sixty percent.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
No, I mean, look, there's a lot of things that
he's doing that I think they are appealing to his base.
I mean, you watch what he's doing, and if let
me reverse engineer, if you look at the wooliest Harry's
corners of right wing social media, you can predict what
the administration is going to do next. I mean read
Steven mess to do it right, right. But this is
(16:18):
not what Middle America swing voters I think we're looking
for now. I don't know how the polling is going
to play on Los Angeles. I've tried to prepare people
for the fact that, you know, Americans might actually react
to the you know, burning cars and the Mexican flags
and say, we will like what Trump is doing. But
(16:39):
I just I'm I've got a new mantra right now
that I don't care whether he's winning. Okay, it's not
a winning losing thing. Sometimes it's just right and wrong.
And so let's say in fact that he does get
the upper hand on his use of the military. I
don't think he is. I think it's a losing issue
for him. But let's just say that he is. It
doesn't matter because there is something about losing causes that
(17:01):
have always appealed to me. And if democracy in did
right up the rule of LAWND and and all that,
if that's a losing because I don't care, let's let's
let's draw the r. I'm well, as.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We're talking about this, I'm going to read you a
new Reuters IPSOS poll. Thirty five percent of adults approve
of Trump's response to la the thirty five fifty percent
disapproved by a plus nine adults say that the president
has gone too far with the arrest event.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
So, and that's from g Elliott Morris, who's a very
smart pollster and ran five thirty eight and knows of
what he speaks. So I do think that ultimately this
is a.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Loser for well, we'll see. I mean, you know, we're
living in a news cycle right now where things are
happening very very very quickly. You know, you have one incident,
do you have one can state like incident with you know,
shooting protesters or the other way around. Uh So on this,
I just I do think that it's very very important.
(18:05):
Two things, very very important. I think for Democrats we're
critical of and those of us are critical of Donald Trump,
to make it very clear that that we are not
defending a rationalizing violence in any way whatsoever. The protest
massive and they should be peaceful, peaceful and impact.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Violence undermines the message.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's a gift to Donald Trump. I'm just trying to imagine,
for example, you know, watching the protests over the weekend
with masses of American flags and maybe don't tread on
me flags, and then watch the way law enforcement reacts
to that. Make it hard on that, make it hard
on Trump. Don't make it easy on Trump.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yes, flags, definitely American flags, I think, And don't tread
on me that snake, that ridiculous snake. I think it's
very good. So Donald Trump got played this week too,
And I want to talk about that, because it seems
like there's quite a lot of spin coming out of
this White House about Israel and Trump's relationship, Trump's great,
(19:04):
great relationship with Israel. This is on the heels of
Trump's Trump's Trump's great, great relationship with Bottomer Putin. But
with times he.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, talk to me, No, I I agree with you.
In fact, it is interesting how many people are buying
this spin that you know, the US was really you know,
joined at the hip with with Israel, and they were
they were using this misdirection. It was kind of secret
and we and we misled everybody. That really does seem
like it's kind of retrofitting onto what we actually know
(19:35):
that the Trump was caught flat footed. You saw the
statement from Mark Rubio. Once again, you find a lot
of these guys who kind of under look, you know,
who understands Taco that you know that Trump Trump always
chickens out. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you could your
chickens out. You know, understands Taco. Vledimer Putin understands it. President,
(19:58):
she understands it, and he, yeah, who understands it? And
so I think you are seeing that play out right now.
But there's kind of a flop sweat around Trump saying
we were part of that too. Really, really we were
part of that. Hey, could I join the club?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
No?
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Yeah, he looked weak and in impotent and really out
of step. Plus I want now, the world is an
incredibly dangerous place at a time when we have you know,
a costplaying you know, idiot like Peter Hexath in charge
of the Department of Defense. So it is a very
very dangerous time and probably one of the worst times
(20:33):
to be staging a stupid parade and using American troops
on American city streets.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah. I think that's right. And I just want to
go back to the Marco Rubio tweet. So Marco said
he had it with most This administration and subsequent administrations
have been very careful with their language around Israel, saying
they support them basically no matter what. And in this tweet,
Marco sort of says, you know, we weren't really involved
(21:00):
in this in a way that makes it clear that
this was them playing along by themselves. And then Trump
comes in and says, no, no, I knew all about this.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
No, but it is interesting that I feel like we've
been talking about Israel bombing Iran to destroy its nuclear
capabilities for the last twenty five years now, and again
it's hard to have a really solid opinion on this
because we're in the fog of war. We don't know
what was accomplished. And well, I mean, at the end
of this process, will will Iran be capable of developing
(21:34):
a nuclear weapon or not? There are all kinds of
things that can go wrong when you're bombing nuclear facilities.
So again, first, you know, the first tranch looks like
a successful military operation, in fact, rather stunningly successful for
the Israelis, but again two days from now, who knows.
(21:54):
I mean, that's it. There's so much uncertainty out there,
and this is exactly the moment when you want solid thing,
reasonable people in charge.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Unfortunately, not a Fox News host, Yeah, but I do
think for reality TV host as president. Yeah, but it is. Yes,
So I just want to just add it's not really
a fact check, but net NYA who has now been
saying for thirty three years that Ron was getting a nuke,
(22:27):
it seems like a lot of years.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Well something was going on. I mean, one of the
interesting questions will be why, now, why did they do this?
Was it because there was intelligence they were nearing a
bomb or is it because somebody wanted, you know, wanted
a distraction. We just don't know. Benjamin Netanyahu now has
opened a multi front war again. Maybe he has the
resources to be able to pursue this, but this doesn't
(22:55):
feel like it's going to be the slap fight of
the first time that they that they exchange missile. Remember
the first time Iran basically said we're going to retaliate
and then they sent those slow moving missiles all the
way across which were easily shot down. That had kind
of a Kabookie Dan's feel to it. I am guessing
that this will not be like that at all.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, and I also think it's important to remember that
this is you know, Natanya who really wants to stay
in power, right and he works from a very similar
playbook to Donald Trump, and so this getting in war
is a good way to stay in power.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Well, I mean, these are all the questions that you have.
You know, normally, I'll be honest with you, I would
normally have given the Israelis the benefit of the doubt,
except for Benjamin Natanyahu for exactly the reasons that you said.
But again, we're going to see how the rest of
the Mid East reacts, how the world economy reacts to
all of this, whether or not you know what the
level of you know, damages to Israel. I mean, this
(23:55):
is this is the potential for a major war. I
mean it's yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And so far we're seeing oil prices spike, so that
is and again, I just want to get back to this.
Trump's central thesis when he ran for president was that
this second time he said these things, right, that what
we knew were lies, but we couldn't. Necessarily people didn't,
you know, they weren't. People wanted to believe. He said,
(24:22):
I'm going to make things cheaper, right, I'm going to
you know, groceries gas, right, I'm going to make it cheaper,
and I'm going to end forever wars. So that seems
like neither of those things are happening.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Well, you know again, both those things now are on
the bubble. And you you know, the polls that you
are citing, which which suggests that he's below forty percent
on approval ratings, would suggest that it's not working. Now again,
I am I am really struck by the way when
you're eu roytous poll is very, very interesting because Donald
Trump in the White House and with sitting in the
(24:59):
Oval Office with Stephen Miller, is absolutely convinced that things
like what's happening in Los Angeles are winners for him,
that they take away from the losers. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you think you think about like about a
week and a half ago, there was the Night of
the Bright Shiny Objects, when the Elon Musk thing was
was the big story, and that that was there was
that fight, and it looked like he was about to
(25:20):
cave into China on terrace. So he dropped all of
these things all at once. Remember he dropped an order
on a travel band and everything. Then of course they
followed by los An Well, these are all things that
that he thinks are like in his wheelhouse, that he
really thinks this is the red meat, and it is
red meat for his base. But you know, I think
(25:42):
that Steven Miller has talked him into thinking, you know,
the more cruelty, the more brutality, the better it is
for you. That may turn out to be one of
the great miss miscalculations, which by the way, would go
a bit, actually a long way to restoring my faith
in the American people. If they look at this and go,
I'm sorry, No, we think this is fucked up. We
(26:05):
have retained enough dignity and enough perspective that we are
not going along with this sort of thing that it's
not going to be nineteen seventy all over again.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, and I think that's a real question. I do think,
you know. I just read this incredible William F. Buckley
biography by Sam tennant House, which I recommend highly. Yeah,
because I'm traveling, I'm having the best time.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I'm just reading.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
But you know, I don't have to mean it's just me,
So I'm just reading books and going up. Yeah. Well,
I'm a little confused. I go to the wrong I
go to the wrong place, and I miss the plane.
But I'm good. But I read this incredible William F.
Buckley biography, and in it, tenant House talked about how
how much the country really has changed, and that pushback
(26:52):
in the seventies, these cultural shifts, these you know, these backlashes.
They they sort of you know, you two steps forward,
one step back. So I don't know that you can
do back to the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, no, I you were never going back to the
nineteen fifties. But a lot of these guys you can see,
are are thinking that are thinking in previous decades, you know,
how how did hey, how did the public react to
uses of force and strength? But again, this is this
is really very very close to the essence of trump
(27:26):
Ism right now, which is strength versus weakness, brutality being
a sign of manliness. There's a reason why Christy Nome
has become the ice Barbie. And we all we sort
of made fun of her, you know about the whole
shooting her puppy in the face, but they shooting the
puppy in the face story was written as part of
a resume to get a job in this administration. She
(27:46):
got the job that she wanted in this administration, and
it's turning out to be just as deplorable and stupid
as we thought she would be. But again, they feast
on all of this. So I think the thing to
keep watching for always is hubrious, the arrogance of hubris
and going too far. You know, this is an administration
(28:08):
that honestly believes it has all the cards that it
is immune what could possibly go wrong? And by the way,
one thing we haven't talked about was that in the
run up to the big beautiful military parade. You also
had that appearance at Fort Bragg where clearly I think
that Donald Trump is doing two things. He's by deploying
(28:29):
the troop, he's trying to desensitize Americans to the use
of military force. But he's also right now hoping, I think,
to radicalize the US military and the security apparatus in
this country, radicalize the troops, grooming them to be instruments
of MAGA. So you put all of those things in
(28:51):
a line, and it is deeply dangerous and ominous. And look,
I agree with you that I mean Trump. I'm still
you know, I have PTSD from Trump one point zero.
But Trump, you know, always had guardrails. And you know, yeah,
when he wanted to shoot protesters, you know, you had
you know, the Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper in the room.
You had Mark Milly, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
(29:13):
of Step in the room. You even had Bill Barr,
the Attorney General, saying you can't do that, mister president.
There is no one around Donald Trump who's going to
tell him no.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
This time around.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, that's right, That's exactly right. Charlie Sikes, thank you
for joining.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
US thank you. New York Times best selling author of
Mullay John Fast.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Ed Luce is the Financial Times Chief US commentator and
the author of Zie Big, The Life of Zybignief Brazinski,
America's Great Power profit. Welcome to Fast Politics, Ed Loose.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Such a pleasure to be with you, Marley always Okay, Ed, so.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You have a book, talk to me about this book,
and then we have many other things to discussed.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Okay. This is a biography of Big Brashinski. You know,
Henry Kissinger's great rival in the Cold War and afterwards,
and there's never been a full life biography of him,
and his life is really quite cinematic, you know, from
from inter War Poland to Washington and the heights he
scaled here. And I was given the diaries he kept
(30:22):
as National security advisor to Jimmy Carter, extraordinary troves of letters,
correspondence with Pope John pulsecond. And when you start sort
of going through this primary material others haven't had access to,
your excitement mounts. And the more you find out, the
more you you want to find out. So it's just
it's a work of It's the most exciting project I've
ever worked on. It's certainly the biggest, the biggest I
(30:44):
should say.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Do you think the world would be better off had
Brazinsky been the lead? Is Brazinski's worldview a little bit
better worldview?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
He was oddly known as a hawk when he worked
for Carter, but as very much a dove. He sort
of redeemed himself with the liberal wing and the Democratic
Party after nine to eleven, and particularly his criticisms of
Iraq War and his endorsement a few years later of
Obama for the same reasons, because Obama had opposed the
(31:14):
right war. But during the seventies he and Kissinger had
utterly different views of how to confront the Soviet Union
in the Cold War, and I would say that Razhinski
gets the better of that argument. I mean, he was
a Soviet toller. He was this great Harvard scholar, as
was Kissinger. Then became a Columbia scholar, and he predicted
the Soviet Union was going to unravel, it was going
(31:35):
to collapse of its own weight. It was Moriband, you know,
run by old man had this thing which he called
reverse natural selection, where it only promoted the least innovative,
least creative people. And Kissinger thought the USSR was a
permanent feature of the landscape. So I think the way
Rashinsky put his scholarship to work in trying to sort
of help peacefully unravel the Soviet Empire was pretty impressive,
(31:59):
and I think I think on the Cold War he's
a more effective figure than Kissinger. Kissinger was a lot funnier,
but he was a lot less principled, right.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's sort of his thing. What are the lessons that
we can learn from that period? It was a lot
of sort of unmaking and making on the foreign stage.
What are the lessons we can learn right now that
could connect to where we are right now?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Well, I would say that, you know, we are living
today in that sort of revenge of geopolitics era. It's
a more complicated era because this is, you know, a
multipolar world of many great powers, not just the two
superpowers you had facing each other off in the Cold War.
But what we had I think in between was a
little bit of a holiday from history. I mean, one
(32:45):
of the great things about Brazhinsky and to be fair,
Kissinger was they were steeped in knowledge of the world
that they were sort of trying to shape, and the
languages Brazinski spoke fluent Russian. Right now, I think with
the Trump administration, we have, you know, to put it
very politely, an a strategic worldview, which is a posh
word for stupid. And I don't think we've got too
(33:07):
many Chinese speakers around or curiosity or scholarship or expertise
on the world outside. So we've got this guy who's
trumpoo sees the world as a jungle, and you know,
there are predators, and there are a prey, and if
you dress like an antelope and walk like an antelope,
he's going to eat you. And if Putin does the
same in his sphere of interest, Russia's backyard, and China
(33:29):
does in its own backyard, that's all fine with Trump.
That's how big predators operate. And really the Brashinski world view,
and they had a lot of the same problems. Iran,
of course, was cartis undoing, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,
the non invasion of Poland, suppression of Ukrainian activism. Then
a lot of these same problems, you know, are with us,
(33:51):
but we don't seem to have that burning curiosity and
therefore the sort of strategic thoughts, whether you agree with
them or not that come from knowledge and burning curiosity.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Let's talk about there we are right now in an
American life. There is this trade war with China that
is likely not to go away. So you know, there's
been backing down and backing up. But I would love
you to give me this sort of your sense of
how to balance this uncertainty, well, the.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Achina war trade war. I mean, there's a poem nursing
rhyme in English about the grand old Duke of York
who marched his men to the top of the hill
and marched them down again. And what Trump has done
with tariffs is a great folding. I mean, he escalated
to a peak very rapidly after quotation marks Liberation Day April.
(34:43):
And you know, on the basis lifelong held belief that
trade wars are easy to win, he has discovered they're
not easy to win, and so he's marched his troops
down to the bottom of the hill again. So now
we have market relief, a market rally, restoring some of
the losses that Trump you know, inflicted self inflicted on
(35:03):
the US bond market as well as the equity market.
But the world's trust and I'm including here America's friends
as well as its enemies, who Trump has kind of
driven together, which is posit of strategy. There's a trust
factor here, or rather a mistrust factor. If you do
a deal with Trump, how long does it last? One week,
one year? Who knows?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
That is the thing that I think is so striking.
And again, so much of what's happened in the Trump's
second administration is benefited from the destruction that it already
engaged in the Trump's first administration. But I just wonder
when you look at this question of trust. During Trump's
(35:48):
first administration, the world did the same thing, right, They
pulled away, They got together and made deals that didn't
include us because Trump was so a rational and could
make a deal with him. But tomorrow will be out.
He seems both a little more rational than he did
last time, but also a lot more in bolder.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I would agree that he's I mean, I think Trump
two point zero is trump Ism squared. We had a
dress rehearsal in his first administration, but he was surrounded
by people who muffled or blocked his worst instincts. Now
he's surrounded by people who amplify them. So that's a
very different situation. He's in office after the most improbable campaign,
(36:30):
following an attempt to overturn an election, I mean, a
clear strike at the US Constitution, at the republic, and
he managed to get elected anyway. So you can understand
why he's walking on air. At least in his own head,
he thinks he's indestructible. And so America's partners, whether they're
you know, adversaries or friends across the Atlantic. Canada in particular,
(36:55):
I mean, are experiencing Trump a lot worse than they
did first time round. I mean, remember, I remember first
time round he did arm twist Canada and Mexico to renegotiate,
and after as as MAACA as they called it, the
first thing he did on trade after he was inaugurated.
This time round was declared the renegotiated and after his
(37:15):
deal to be a terrible deal. Of me, what's the
point of breaking a deal?
Speaker 1 (37:21):
When you look at where we are as a country
right now, do you see like a world where we
were turned to normalcy after this?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
It's really difficult to picture, and I'm not sure. I'm
not sure how I would define normalcy anymore, you know,
because I think the Democratic Party is untouched by this.
It has to adjust, it has to change quite radically,
and I don't see signs of that at the moment.
I mean, I appreciate that this system doesn't, you know,
provide as a parliamentary system does a leader of the
(37:50):
opposition and a government in waiting. It is a different system,
So it is more difficult to frame a response of
resistance to what's going on. But there are really urgent
challenges here that you know, don't just rely on. It
seems to me that Chuck Schumer and others have one strategy,
which is just you wait until the midterms. And I'm
(38:11):
not confident, you know, this will be the same republic
by November twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, I've not either. I'll volunteer my thinking here too,
because this is an important question. But like, what do
you think is the most important thing your person listeners
podcast being super freaked out? What do you think is
the most important sort of pro democracy thing that normal
people can do?
Speaker 4 (38:33):
They can I think, respond to leaders. There are too
many around, but there are people like Chris Murphy, I
think JB. Pritzka, AOC. I think these people have shown
sort of courage and principle and they can reward those
who are showing that. I don't think it's a particularly
impressive act nowadays to sign up to Kevin Newsom's podcast.
(38:54):
Let's put it that way. This sounds like sort of
weak tea, because the truth is, leadership has to come from,
you know, people who are capable of leading, and then
we will respond. We sort of talking of But there
are tons of the political equivalent of what JFK calls
numberless small acts of kindness. There are numberless small acts
(39:14):
of resistance, solidarity, pressuring, you know, companies that are bending
the need to Trump punishing them. I mean, just pull
the cord on whichever platforms are bribing Trump. It's extraordinary
the sorts of money that he's heaving.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I do feel like there has been quite a bit,
and I think there'll be a lot more pushback, and
you do see I mean they're losing in the courts.
Those things do give me a live phole.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I would agree with that. I think today, which is
what mid May compared to a mid April, I'm a
lot less pessimistic. I'm certainly not optimistic, but I'm a
lot less pessimistic about civil society, about people's awareness you know,
this has been a crash course, this is an ongoing
teachable moment and so people's society's response is evolving. So
(40:04):
I mean, you're right, and the courts have thrown a
lot more grit into the wheels than you might have imagined. Nevertheless, yes,
we're going to get to Supreme Court rulings, you know.
And Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, who I actually did an
on stage interview with the Weekend, a very tough, contentious
interview as you might imagine at the Kennedy Center, which
(40:25):
you know, probably will cause me to pee double cancels
by some of my friends, but it was nevertheless a
very very revealing exercise. He doubled down on Stephen Miller's
call for a suspension of habbyiest Corpus. Why what was
the bullshit excuse that the courts were essentially thwarting the
(40:46):
will of the people.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
But it's not the will of the people, it's the
will of the monarch.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
Indeed, But unfortunately that was the lens through which he
was interpreting democracy, which is this sort of sovereigntist thing
these Curtis yave.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
But even for Ris Jarvin is not happy, right, and.
Speaker 4 (41:04):
Culter seems to be unhappy. I mean there are different
Laura Luma seems to be unhappy, very unhappy. Yeah, to
be unhappy with the sort of theft in broad day well,
the bribery in broad daylight. But when fanatics are unhappy
with you, it's not necessarily because you're not being fanatic enough.
I think it's because you're being incompetently fanatic.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I tend to skew overly optimistic, which is why I
try to be mindful of that. But I have to
wonder if it's possible that this thing that saves us
all is the incomfidence.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
I would hope. So, but what does Trump do when
he's really backed into the corner? I fear that he
will sort of. He's got a tool kid with Project
twenty twenty five. He has got the likes of Stephan
Miller and Rick Ridell around him, and these people do
believe in the suspension of Happiest Corpus. And you know
I should mention, I asked Bannon if the Supreme Court
rejected that basically Trump's deportation efforts down or at least
(42:03):
the ones without due process, so that all of them
must have due process would you advise Trump to ignore it?
And balanderclined to answer that what happens in that scenario
is a tremendously important moment. It's coming at some speed
or other. That moment will come, as several such moments
will come.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's funny because it's I mean, it's not funny. Actually,
I mean it's disturbing, but it's funny and strange. It
does feel as if what Trump is doing is not popular,
but Trump doesn't really care, right, I mean, that's sort
of where we are.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
His trip to the Gulf, you know, to Saudi Arabia,
to Emirates and gutter, and you compare that with the
America first sort of rhetoric that he's sold to the
mega base. You know, this is Trump first, This is
an America first. You know, he takes a jumbo jet
from Guitar because Boeing is allegedly late on it's delivery. Boeing,
(43:01):
in spite of recent problems, is one of the great
sort of corporate icons of the United States. He's choosing Ghata,
which has played host to Hamas by the way, I
mean right, of course, find a student on a foreign
visa who I think mostly with completely false allegations he
can link or his people can link to Hamas, he
will cancel their visas and deport them, but he'll accept
(43:23):
a four hundred million dollar gift from the Emirate Kingdom
that there's been hosting and funding hamas for many, many years.
So this is Trump first, and I think that shows
that you're right. He doesn't really care. It's about him.
It's about his enrichment, his family's enrichment. The number of
towers and golf courses that are going up all over
(43:43):
the Gulf, but also in other countries like Serbia. Eric
and Donald Jr. Were in Serbia, they were in Belgrade,
they were in Budapest, in Hungary, Victor Bands Hungri They're
getting deals in these countries, which, just to tie it
back with my book Brijin calls the Alliance of the Aggrieved,
you know, led by China and Russia, but with Iran,
(44:05):
with North Korea, and with a sort of bunch of
countries that want to bring the system down, that feel
like they were on the losing side of the Cold
War and are now coming back. This is the revenge
of geopolitics, and Trump is kind of with them. These
are the people who are enriching Trump. The Prime Minister
of Canada, Mark Carney, cannot give Trump a jumbo jet.
(44:25):
He can't pledge a sort of phony l and s
six hundred billion dollars in America over the next decade,
because he doesn't have the power to do that, because
he's the leader of a democracy. There is no distinction
between public and private. In Saudi Arabia, the country is
named after its ruling family. There's no such thing as
a conflict of interest. So these are countries Trump likes.
It's they operate in the style he wishes to emulate,
(44:49):
so they have a massive advantage over democracies to be
able to do deals with him, to get preferential trade terms. Again,
I have to stress for Trump's benefit, not Americas.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, Ed Lewis, I hope you'll come back.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
That's a delight to be with you, Molly. I'd love
to come back.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
No more, exactly, Jesse Cannon.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
So, Molly, there is a press conference yesterday on the
space coast of Florida that was bonkers. Now, some people
who have been paying attention will know that Florida has
been leading the way and saying that you can't protest anymore.
And there's been some pushback on this, but this seems
like one of those moments where it's like, you know,
(45:34):
we really better start stocking up some acl you lawyers
down here, because some of this rhetoric was very bad.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So a Florida sheriff issued a stark message to protesters
planning to demonstrate this weekend against increasing ice arrests. He's
a sheriff called ween Ivy.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I should also say we will kill you dead. Is
more than a stark message.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yes, is throw a breck of fire bomb or point
a gun, they will be killed. If you block an
intersection or roadway, you are going to jail. If you
free arrest, you are going to jail. Tired, because we
are going to run you down and put you in jail.
If you try to mob rule a car, gather round it,
(46:20):
or refuse to let the driver leave, you are most
likely going to get run over and dragged across the street.
This reminds me of the sort of white nationalist of
the nineteen fifties, kind of terrifying Jim Crow South Wallace type.
George Wallace. Yeah, so this guy, I just want to say,
(46:43):
he reminds me a little bit of like a terrifying
authoritarian from another time, and we're not going to play.
This is a constitutional right that we have the right
to protest. It comes before the right you have to
have guns, and quite frankly, fuck that guy. That's it
for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
(47:09):
Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics
make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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