May 20, 2024 • 46 mins
Rick Wilson of The Lincoln Project skewers MTG's latest embarrassment in Congress. Senator Bernie Sanders examines how progressives can come back to supporting Joe Biden. Nikki McCann Ramirez of Rolling Stone gives us a survey of the personality of John McEntee, a likely Trump administration official who loves bragging about his cruelty to others.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and Donald Trump Junior says, I'm getting
an MSNBC weekend show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have an amazing show for you today.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Senator Bernie Sanders stops by to talk about bringing progressives
back on the Biden train. Then we'll talk to Rolling Stones,
NICKI McCann Ramirez about John McEntee, who is a likely
Trump administration official if we are very unlucky, and how
he likes to make TikTok spragging about his cruelty to
(00:38):
the homeless. But first we have the host of the
Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project, z own Rick Wilson. Welcome
back to Fast Politics, my poor sick friend, Rick Wilson.
Rick Wilson, I want to talk about last night's spicy
(00:59):
AFT after hours hearing. On Thursday night, when the Freedom
Caucus was done spending the day with Donald J. Trump
at his criminal trial, they came back to hold a
late night hearing to complain about I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Go first off, and folks, I'm going to apologize I
have pneumonia right now and for the good of the order,
I'm still doing the show. Yeah, so I sound like
dragged over ass, But here we go. There is no
pleasure in the world greater than seeing a bully get
smacked in the face. And Marjorie Taylor Green is a terrorist,
she is an abuser, she is a bully, she's a punk.
(01:44):
And when she went at Jasmine Crockett during that hearing
on Thursday night, and folks, this is late at night.
This is like ten o'clock at night. And so I'm
sick as a dog. I'm laying there in bed and
renamed my Fance pokes me. She's like, oh my god,
you have to wake up. You have to watch this clip.
I'm thinking, oh God, kill me now. But no, it
(02:05):
was so worth it because Margie Taylor Green starts going
at Jasmine Crockett, saying, oh, your false eyelashes are blocking
you can't see. She'd already gone at AOC a few
minutes before, and Jasmine Crockett just said, I believe I
have exhausted the supply of focks available to me in
the Greater Washington metropolitan area. And she just went right
at her. And I got to tell you, do I
wish we had a world where people in Congress debated
(02:26):
the key issues and the intellectual framework of their ideas. Sure,
but in the meantime, every day the Republicans are bringing
a flamethrower into the room, and sometimes you have to
punch them right in the face. And that's why watching
Rask and Swallowell, Moskuwitz Kroc, watching them go after their
Republican colleagues, when the Republicans come in with these ridiculous
(02:47):
stud casting ideas and these ridiculous pranks, watching them get
checked on it is a real pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, I think what was interesting. I mean, so that
was the oversight hearing about.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Judge Merchant's daughter. That's what Green claimed it was about,
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right, But I actually think that it was an issue
of contempt for Garland over his refusal to turn over
the audio recordings of Biden's Herr interview.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
All they wanted them for was to leak them to Fox.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Right, to leak them to Fox already use them in
some kind of untoward way. But what is interesting was
that the question that Green asked was trumpy propaganda, which
a journalist from New York Magazine saw him editing what
his surrogates were going to say. Outside of the courthouse
about how Judge Mershon's daughter is paid by Democrats.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So you see the through line here.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
MTG asked the Democrat if they paid Judge Murshan's daughter.
So the through line here is that Marjorie Taylor Green
is disseminating the trumpy propaganda. And it's not even a hearing,
it's an oversight hearing, and it's not even about that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
One thing to remember, Molly is that the Republicans operate
on a continuity of message all the time. Yeah, the
rules for Republicans about messaging are absolutely inviable. You must
stay on message. And the message right now is that
Trump wants everybody out there beating up on the judge's daughter.
That's the message. That's all they care about.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
The gag order protects only the family of the judge
and the DA, not the judge and the DA for
whom he's allowed to say whatever he wants.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And look, I don't think anybody is going to mistake
Donald Trump for somebody who follows the rules, or who
plays by the rules, or who believes in the rules.
The gag order technically says that Trump can't induce others
to violate the rules. Either, and yet he does. Why
does he get away with it? Well, he gets away
with it because the judge recognizes he's only got a
(04:48):
few days of this asshole in his court room left,
and he didn't end up wanting to be the guy
who put Donald Trump in prison as much as we
would have all enjoyed it. Here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think it's probably a smart move.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, And Mrshawn is trying to run this.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Trial like a professional, right and also just as carefully
as possible. Tuesday we had the Speaker in the House
at the trial and he was doing it. Obviously, Trump
saved his job. He feels, you know, in Trump world,
you have to pay back right away. I think this
has downstream consequences, Like I think that there are a
(05:24):
lot of voters who see the Speaker of the House
at the ex president's criminal trial and they're turned off
by that.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Am I crazy?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
No, You're not crazy? And actually, look, I'm a big
fan of the Lol. Nothing matters philosophy, But in this situation,
what you're seeing is in a country where every single
day you've got a guy Mike Johnson screaming the border
is unsecure. We're being overrun. This is a problem. That's
a problem. Fentanyl this and immigrants that, all this stuff, right,
(05:56):
all this mania, all these like crazy shout match things
that they're always involved in, and it's like, Okay, where
where are you are? Are you actually making any kind
of effort to fix the problem, You actually try to
actually solve the issue? Of course not, of course not.
The reason they're not trying to solve the issue is
because they benefit only when the issue continues. They benefit
(06:17):
only when the issue is an ongoing crisis rather than
a solved crisis. And so they're going to pretend that
the most important thing they can do is go and
stand with Donald Trump. But it really just speaks to
the unbelievable shallowness and emptiness of the Republicans as a party,
because there's no there there anymore, there's no issue, right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
But do you think voters see that and are turned
off by it?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think a lot of the voters that I talk to,
and my cohort of voters that we you know, the
ex Republicans, the moderate Democrats, the independence a lot of
those people are turned off by this stuff. They do
find it to be just egregious and tiresome and like,
when will they take take the world seriously for one
damn minute.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Here's another thought I have.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So a lot of these Senate candidates who are running
in swing year districts have stopped talking about how the
twenty twenty election was stolen.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
They have stopped.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
They are no longer pushing some of these trumpy lives.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They're doing it because they think it'll help them get elected.
But I'm curious if they're doing that. They obviously have
seen polls that show it doesn't play. So if that
doesn't play, how does the Speaker of the House going
to Donald Trump's criminal trial help them keep the House?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
That is the apperable question. Republicans are always caught now
in the horns of a terrible dilemma. And I want
to say this for folks listening, every single Republican the
UC say Elachi was stolen. Trump's being railroaded deep State,
Even in his most passionate supporters, not one of them
believe that's true. They know it's not true. No one
of them, none, zero the number, even Matt Gates and
(07:57):
Merge and all the crazies, none of them them believe
that's true. They know it's not true. They know it's
a lie. These rich guys that are paying their consultants
a ton of money to tell them how to not
lose are very nervous right now because you know, if
they want to win primaries, if they want to keep
the magas happy, they've got to say that Trump was
cheated and all this other garbage if they want to
(08:18):
not get their heady into too them in the general election.
They get nothing out of pretending otherwise. Nothing good comes
from them doing this except more pain from regular voters
when the time comes making these arguments, it means you're
just not serious as a person.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So thread the needle here for me, though, I mean,
Mike Johnson is obviously going to get reelected because he's
in an R plus two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Right, well billion, right, But.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Like I mean, does this hurt a Mike Lawler? Does
this hurt a d Esposito? Does this hurt in California
and New York State? There are you know about ten
or twelve total swing state members of Congress, that's.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And in those areas, those people if they bite this apple,
if they start up with these talking points.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Like Lawler voted for both impeachments.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and those things are a burden to them now.
And a lot of the people on the MAGA side
of the equation will sort of nod and say, oh,
I have to do this and wink behind the scenes,
But they're having to do all this on the record.
They don't get to hide this. They don't get to
pretend that this isn't happening. They don't get to pretend
that they're not part of the MAGA game plan, the
MAGA movement. Once you start voting that way, you are
(09:31):
that person, right.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And do you think that that will come back to
get them in the elections?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Look, I think it doesn't help them. I think it
actively hurts their chances. And again, in these swing seats,
voters are not telling us, Oh my god, my number
one concern is Donald Trump's being persecuted.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Now, is anyone telling you that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
No one's telling us that. It literally does not appear
in any survey research outside of like the pages of Breitbart.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Right, So that's like an important data point.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah, it's a little bit of a thing. We're not
in a world where the things that MAGA voters respond
to when they're clicking the directed email link may care
about one set of things, but that's not what regular
voters are caring about at all.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Also, I kind of think, Molly, I kind of maybe
I'll get your opinion on this. Doesn't it feel just
kind of like the shtick is worn out?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I mean, I'm very bored with it. But that's just me.
I mean, I am just barely limpy along.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
You and I are very different people than the average
MAGA voter. But at some point, you know, the lies
of Trump's being persecuted and the election was told all that,
it just feels tired. It feels broken and worn out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, I think they're going to try to run on
that forever, but I just don't totally understand where that
gets them.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It's one thing to believe in your causes and your
concerns and the things your movement wants you to believe in.
It's another thing when the movement asks you to believe
in things that you know are object actively, untrue and dumb,
and that are issues for losers right right right. And look,
I've said this for a million years. The only way
you're going to beat MAGA is to beat Trump and
(11:11):
to eventually cause so much pain in their electoral lives
that they go, well, maybe this isn't.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Workking, That's the only way. And I still think the
fact that Nikki Haley has not endorsed, and that you
have these people who are keeping their powder dry is
really important.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Nicki Haley still continues to wreck up. If she continues
to wreck up fifteen to twenty percent of the vote
everywhere she goes, without being in the campaign, without having
a campaign, without spending money in a campaign, just because
she's not Donald Trump, it's a signal inside of a
lot of the noise that I think people should be
paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Do you think that Trump's people, I mean, while they
would never admit anything, do you think that they see
that that's a problem or are they just fully foe
focused on flipping Minnesota as this news psychle was today.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, the idea that we're going to flip Minnesota
is fascinating. Meanwhile, I'm sure that they're very competitive in
Hawaii as well. Yeah, so you know that level of
self delusion, man, that is respectable. That is really something.
But I think las Avita and Susie Wilds and a
bunch of these other people do understand that they need
to make this election a referendum on Joe Biden. That's
(12:27):
hard when Donald Trump spends every day making it a
referendum on him.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, it is definitely true.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So let's talk about the big news was that their
debates have been set.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I am thrilled. Okay, I will say this. First off,
let's not forget Joe Biden beat Donald Trump in two
debates in twenty twenty, beat him like a drum. No,
we're not pretending here, We're not like half asking this.
Donald Trump did not do well.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Did not know.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Donald Trump will not have the one thing he truly
wants in this debate is audience. The second thing he
won't have in this debate is RFK. He really needed
RFK as a distraction, as a sideline, as a cat's
paw in this thing, and he's not going to have it.
But the lack of an audience and the fact that
he's got essentially you know, look, are they perfect? Maybe not.
(13:18):
Are there going to be good reporters who are not
going to let Trump completely get away with bullshit? I
think they will be.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I think Jake Tapper doesn't want to be a guy
who ends up looking like an a hole by letting
Trump get away with murder at one of two debates.
And I think the fact that it's not a Fox debate,
it's not an audience debate, I think all these things
add up in a way that is pretty beneficial to
the president. And again, I just want to say this
one more time, because people always underestimate Joe Biden every
(13:46):
goddamn time they go, oh, this State of the Union
will be a disaster if he doesn't do it perfectly.
And he's blown both States of the Union performances out
of the water, and I think he's going to do
the same of the debates. I'm much more sanguine about
Biden in these debates than a lot of people. I
just I think he's much better out of the people think.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, that is what we've seen again and again and again.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Right when he is called and he needs to step up,
the guy steps up. And also, let's not pretend that
Trump is some masterful performer at the same level he
was in twenty sixteen. He's lost a not a step,
he's lost a mile.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm right, Trump is not the he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The same guy that he was. And while Biden is older,
while Biden is older. Trump in many ways feels just
weaker and out of control and less capable than he
ever has.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We have two more days or three more days, one
more week of the Trump trial.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
This will probably be the last week coming up.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What do you think again, these are like downstream effects
of the Trump trial.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Do we think they exist? What do we think?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, look, one thing we know about voters right now
is they're not really moved by old information about Trump. Yeah,
it feels very baked in the cake for a lot
of voters. Yes he's a scumbag, Yes he's a weirdo.
Yes he's a bad guy. But there are a lot
of things that feel fresher about this whole case because
nobody's had to review all this crap for years, right,
(15:12):
No one's had to think about this for years.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, which I.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Am kind of fascinated by the degree to which people
had forgotten what a scumbag the guy was. The people
had left behind the idea of just who and how
venal and criminal and creepy and nasty he is.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Thank you, Rick Wilson, Molly.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
You are welcome as always. I'm now going to go
back to bed.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Spring is here, and I bet you are trying to
look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all
new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store
with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,
and top bags. To grab some head to Fast politics
dot com. Bernie Sanders is the senior Senator from Vermont.
(16:05):
Welcome back to Fast Politics, Senator Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Well, it's great to be with you, Maia, Thanks for
coming on.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You wrote a really good ab about what a second
Biden term would look like and more importantly, sort of
how the progressive job needs to keep going. And I
actually believe Biden has been a really progressive president.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Will you talk to us about that?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, it is no secret to any of the listeners
that we are living in a moment in American history
where we say some unprecedented challenges. What has not widely
talked about, what is true is we're living in an
oligarthic form of society. We have more income in wealth
inequality today and have performed in American history. People on
(16:48):
top doing fantastically, But sixty percent of the Americans are
living paycheck to paycheck. Six hundred thousand are sleeping out
on the streets. All right, We're dealing with climate change,
and if we don't solve that problem through international cooperation,
the planet that we're going to be leaving our children
will be increasingly uninhabitable and unhealthy. We are looking at
the time when women's right, the right of women that
(17:09):
control their own bodies, is being taken away from them,
and many many other issues that are out there. But
we're looking at some really tough times and the American
people are going to stand together and fight back to
create the kind of government that works for all of
us and not just a few.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You've been like one of the great progressive champions of
Joe Biden. I feel like progressives are mad at Biden
for any number of reasons. Biden World has passed incredible
progressive legislation when it comes to American manufacturing or even climate.
But there are certainly a lot of places where you
know they're upset, and I mean, what do you say
(17:43):
to them?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
How do you talk to them about it?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Well, that's that's a really good question something that we
are looking at. People are upset at Biden. I think
primarily because of this war in Gossip, which has been
a humanitarian disaster led by Nettignelle White being expremience. In
my view that yo should not have gotten a nickel
from the American taxpayer is that's stop with Biden thinks,
(18:05):
and people are very upset about that. But what I
would ask people to consider is when you look at politics,
to understand that Joe Biden is not running against God
in this election. He's running against a guy named Donald Trump.
And Donald Trump was the most dangerous president in American
history in my view, and he will be more dangerous
in the next four years. So what I would say
(18:27):
to people out there, well, I'm angry at Biden. Fine,
I am angry at him as well, and I talked
to him about this biggest policies on God's the odd
dead run. But on the other hand, if you are concerned,
let's just say about income and wealth inequality and the
rights of work as well. Guess what, Joe Biden was
the first president in American history to walk on a
picket line with striking workers. He is pro union, he
(18:48):
is pro work. You know what. Donald Trump is very
much the opposite. If you're concerned about climate change, which
I would hope everybody in America is, you know what,
Donald Trump's view on climate changes, he thinks that's a
hopes And you've indicated Biden has been very strong. We
put more money into transforming our energies to some of
the Biden's than any president in americanistry. Why are you
concerned about women's right? Well, Donald Trump raggs that he
(19:10):
appointed three members of the Supreme Quarta over term roby Wait.
Biden has been solidly pro choice on and on and go.
So is there a real fundamental difference between these two candidates?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Is Biden everything that the progressive community would like? No?
But I think what we've got to do is look
at the totality of the situation and strongly support not
only Biden, but other progressive candidates all over the country.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I mean, we're both Jewish.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You are from an older generation than I am, no offense,
and your generation, like my parents' generation, lived through the Holocaust.
So you have, or at least the people in my parents' generation,
have a real connection to Israel in a way that
maybe I, as in the younger generation, don't.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Necessarily.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I'm curious you must have had a lot of feeling
about this in a way that I mean, I have
such a lot of feeling about this, if that makes sense,
you know, no.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Are you right? I do understand where you come from, Allian. Look,
there has always been sympathy in this country for Israel
because that is the place where a Jewish people deathsimated
with six million murders by Hitler, went and tried to
rebuild a society where they can live in peace and security,
and there has been widespread support for that concept for
(20:24):
a decade. What is happening now and it does personally
break my art. I got to tell you that is
that this is not the Israel up ten twenty thirty
years ago. This is not gold in my ears, you
suck from being This is Benjamin N'tena who and Benjamin
n'atena who is a right wing extremist who is allied
(20:44):
in his government with people who are out and out
anti Palestinian racist, and everybody in America. I don't know
there's anybody in America who doesn't believe that Israel had
the right to defend itself against this horrific Kama terrorist
attack on US. Israel had the right to dependence helps
but Israel did not and does not have the right
(21:04):
to go to war against the entire Palestinian people and
the death so the number of wounded, sixty five percent
of them women and children. The destruction of housing, the
displacement of people, the destruction of the healthcarecer and no
electricity right now, the people being pushed around like their
cattle going in right now and wrap up six hundred
thousand people being displaced after they even displaced before. Very
(21:27):
few people in Erica or around the world thinks about
as successful.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
My grandfather was this writer called Howard Fast who is
a communist and Jew.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Oh I remember that, I knew the name Howard's Nail.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, that was my grandpa.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And one of the fights he had a lot was
with the people like the parents of John pod Horns
Norman pod Horns, Jews, who felt that Jews had to
be conservative and it was like a very anti Semitic trope.
And I feel like we're seeing Trump do that trope
again in there, and I really do feel they're trying
(22:02):
to divide blacks and Jews the way they did in
the sixties.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Well, Look, you know it's always hard to talk about
Trump because he is so outrageous, but you know, the
idea that any Jewish person who is critical of net
Yahoo is you know, shouldn't be you know, voting democratic
or all. This stuff is beyond the pale. But I
think what we are saying right now, and you know,
it's ironic that in many of the schools that where
(22:29):
they were protests, a non insignificant number of the kids
were Jews who are legitimately upset about what net yaz So.
I think the point is, and I hope everybody understands this.
If you disagree with the policies of the Italian government,
they're not anti You've disagree with the policies of the
Irish government. You don't hate Irish people, you know. So
what you have now is, you know net Yao, who's
(22:51):
not the king of the Jews. He is a right winger,
he miss who's the Prime Minister of Israel. And you
can strongly disagree with net Yao and not be antisemitic.
And anyone who suggests otherwise is really expressing a terrible thought.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You are one of the very few candidates I think
of in modern history who connected with young people in
a completely unexpected and profound way, much like Barack Obama.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I'm sure it's hard to sort.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Of explain why, But can you just give us a
tiny bit of an idea of why you think that happened.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Well, I think for a couple of reasons. Number one,
the younger generation in America today is probably the most
progressive generation in the history of this country. This is
a generation that is very strongly anti racist, anti sexist,
anti homophobe. And also, this is a generation that sees
through bullshit and I think just wants to be told
(23:48):
the truth. And that's what I try to do. You
agree with me or disagree with maybe I'm going to
tell you, you know, the way I see it and
the way I see it. Also for this younger generation
is that despite the fact that you're looking being in
the wealthiest country in the history of the world, guess
what this younger generation everything being equal on as we change,
it is going to have a lower standard of living
than their parents. So when you talk about income in
(24:11):
wealth inequality, when you talk about the greed of the
American ruling class, when you talk about people not being
able to afford housing, paying you know, tremendous amounts of
money on their student debt, that resonates with young people.
And you know, I think it should right now.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
This is like a dark moment with polling, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
If you were running Joe Biden's campaign, what would you
do right now?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
What I would do? And you know we've talked to
the President about this and his team is You've got
to understand that while Biden has done, as you've indicated,
a number of good things are he stood with unions,
We're rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. We're lowering the costs of
prescription drums. He is fighting for women's rights and the
(24:53):
right women to control their own bodies. I mean, there's
a long, long list of accomplishments which he has a
right to be proud. But you have to appreciate is
that at the end of the day, all over this country,
Vermont from America, people are struggling and you've got to
give them an gender and hope that things will be
better in the future. Just can't look at, Hey, look
(25:13):
at what I've done in the last four years. For example,
we have a dysfunctional health cassis. It is outrageous to
the expensive and the results if the outcomes are not
particularly good compared to other countries. Prisidents kind of get
up and say you know what. Healthcare is the human right.
We are going to move to universal health cay. I
don't give if you're rich and poor, you're going to
be able to get healthy you need because you're a
human being. We have made some progress, some progress in
(25:36):
taking on the pharmaceutical industry, and it is say that
the Union. He indicated that he wants to do more,
but he's got to stand up to the greed of
the drug companies and make it clear we're going to
significantly low drug prices in America. And I'll tell you
something in Vermont that I think in many many states,
this housing situation is really a crisis. You get some
rents are going up, mortgages are going up, and see
(25:57):
you's got to say, you know what, instead of giving
tax pray the billion as, we're going to start building
the millions of units of blowing from an affordable housing
that we should have built years ago. We're going to
raise the minimum wage to a living wage. We're going
to make it easier for workers the form unions. I mean,
there are progressive ideas out there that are all very popular.
Give you another one right now, you talk to an
older person, talk to somebody on social security on Medicare.
(26:20):
They will tell you, my god, I wish that Medicare
would come a dental hearing envision because they can't afford it.
Biden campaigns that overwhelming support. Everything that I'm telling you
is enormously popular, but it requires you to take on
powerful special interests. That's what I think Biden should be doing.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I mean, he definitely has passed a lot of legislation
that is progressive.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
What is the logjam? Here is it?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And I do think he's ideologically moved, you know, like
this marijuana staff is a big deal, and it seems
like it's a very reactive administration in a way you want, right,
like you say, you know you can't. You know, he's
tried to cancel Student Dad. He's trying to work around
that now.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And well, the way Mallya's not that he has tried
to He hasn't done that, not as far as I
would go. Right, he canceled the student that I don't know.
I don't know if you've talked to anybody.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But then the Supreme Court overturned it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Despite that, he's been able to get around it. Millions
of people today in America and I've got people have
got to appreciate that I talked to a woman that
teacher eighty thousand dollars student that will changed her life,
and that is true for millions of other people. Yes,
so that's a real accomplishment that he should be proud of.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You have been in the center for a long time.
You really know how this works. What is the log jam?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Do you think the log jam is the different We
live in a corrupt political system in which big money
plays these very significant roles. Right, So if you want
to do what is immensely popular, for example, expand Medica
to cover dental jeering and vision, you can have to
take on very powerful people in the insurance industry. Okay,
(28:00):
if you want to make sure that we join every
other country and everything guarantee healthcare all people as a right,
or a Medicare for all program or whatever, you're going
to have to take on the insurance industry, very very powerful.
If you want to demand that the rich start paying
their fair share taxes, man, you're going to have to
take on some of those powerful people in the world
who are delighted that they've had an effective tax rate
(28:22):
lower than you pay. That's what they want. They don't
want to pay any taxes, you got to take them on.
So the question is do you have an administration and
a political movement prepared to take some on. In many ways,
the Democrats sets up with the Democrats, or a lot
of Democrats are And that's the kind of log jam.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Part of it is executive orders, and part of it
is messaging these accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Well, it's messaging accomplishments, and it's also giving people hope
that the future will be better because a lot of
people today they're worried about their parents, they're worried about
their kids, they're worried about the environment. And you have
to say, look, I understand that these are tough times.
Democracy is you know, we talked about Donald Trump. This
is a guy who is an authoritarian type you does
(29:04):
not believe in democracy. So you've got to aut like that.
But you also have got to have a vision for
the future that people say, Okay, for next four years,
we're going to really accomplish. As you know, one of
the problems that Biden has happened, not his fault, is
that right now you have right wing Republicans controlling the House.
Very hard to do anything under those circumstances, and then
two years before that we had two corporate Democrats in
(29:26):
the Senate, which prevent them us asking some really sweeping
legislation like build back American voting rights.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Will you hit the trail with mine?
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Yeah, I mean to agree that the administration wants. You know,
we have talked about this and I and others are
trying to figure out the most effective role that we
can pipe.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Are you proud of the politician that AOC has become.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I am very proud of them. She and I just
did a podcast the other day, actually, and she is
a very you know, and I use the word politician
here in the best sense of the words.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Not in the negative and the positive.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, not in a negative you know, being in a
democratic society, being a politician, you know, it's not a
negative thing. But I think she understands where she has
come from, and you grew up in a you know,
a struggling family, and I think she understands what people
all over this country are experiencing. And I think she
is incredibly articulate. She is a great leader today. And
(30:22):
I think there are a lot of people, especially young people,
young people of colored women, who looked at her with admiration.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You have influenced America so much, probably more than any
other single senator.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Are you optimistic?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I am nervous about the future of this country. What
I am nervous about, Molly, is that a lot of
people are so discouraged or so cynical that they're giving
up on democracy. And we have got to revive hope.
We have got to make sure that young people understand
that they, in fact can create a very different type
of America where all people can live in dignity and security.
(31:01):
We can deal with climate change. So I am nervous,
but I am not unoptimistic because throughout American history. You know,
this country, I don't want to sound rhetorical yet, but
it has responded to challenges. We've gone through terrible civil wore,
the racism, the segregation that existed, World War two, the Depression,
terrible times in American history, and yet the country has
(31:21):
come together and move forward. And I hope very much
and believe that we can do.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
That at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Thank you, Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Well, thank you very much. Enjoyed chatting McKinnon.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Nicki mckat ramirez is a reporter at Rolling Stone. Welcome
to Fast Politics.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Nikki, Hi, Mollie, thank you so much for having me back.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
So Jesse and I will talking about this video on
the soon to be gone TikTok and it was a
guy talking about giving counterfeit money to homeless people so
that they would get arrested. It's the kind of cruel
(32:03):
day that really feels trumpy.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Turns out, tell us who this guy is?
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
So listeners might have seen this video of this like
violently oranged man with a really bleached smile, pulling out
like faked dollar bills from his console and talking about
how like, oh, like I give these two homeless people,
I'm like cleaning up the streets because when they use them,
they get arrested. And in the caption of the video,
he wrote like it's a joke, calm down. But of
course that begs the question like what kind of person
(32:32):
thinks this is in any way funny? And that person
is John mcintee, who not only is one of the
founders of the miserably performing right wing dating app The
Right Stuff, he's also a former Trump administration official who
is at this moment being considered for a return position
(32:52):
should Trump win in November and he has a really
just gross history within Trump world.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
So tell us a little bit about that gross history
within Trump world.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 7 (33:04):
John mcintee was hired into the Trump administration as kind
of a personal aid to Trump. He was head of
the White House Personnel Office, and there's a wonderful article
in The Atlantic, I believe about how insane that office was.
He had a habit of hiring really hot women and
really unattractive men who were non threatening to him. And
(33:25):
as head of that office, he was in charge of
basically bringing on liaisons who would operate as the go
betweens between the White House and major federal agencies.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
And his reputation was that.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
He would only hire diehard Trump loyalists who were extremely
aggressive in their relationships with these federal agencies. Would constantly
be pressuring other government officials outside of the White House,
sort of direct sphere to show more loyalty to Trump,
bad mouthing people who he perceived as like not being
super loyal to Trump. In twenty eighteen, he actually got
(33:58):
fired from the White House because failed background check.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I'm shocked, shocking.
Speaker 7 (34:03):
He you can kind of tell just by his general
vibe apparently had a concerning gambling habit sports gambling in
particular was I think the one it was. But he
was basically ousted from the White House and in twenty
twenty was re hired by the Trump campaign to serve
as sort of like a personnel liaison. And yeah, obviously
Trump loses in twenty twenty, but mcintee, even in the
(34:26):
last days of the administration, was still planning out, interviewing
and vetting potential hires for a second Trump term. He
was a true believer that the election had been stolen.
He actually wrote a memo to Mike Pence's chief of
staff talking about how, like h. Thomas Jefferson used his
vice presidential powers to secure the presidency and making like
(34:47):
a very very dubious legal argument about how Mike Pence
could usurp the certification of Biden's election. But to the
very end, he was still helping Donald Trump prepare for
a second term amidst all of the like efforts to
overturn the twenty twenty election that didn't pan out. In
that in between, mac and Tee launched, along with two
(35:10):
other co founders, and the backing of Peter Teel launched
the Right Stuff, which was is because it still exists
despite its lack of performance. A dating app aimed at conservatives,
and from its launch, the app was a bit of
a joke. It really lacked female users, It was overrun
by trolls.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yeah, it was invite only when it.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
First launched, and like people were just like giving out
the invites willy nilly. So they ended up getting like
a bunch of journalists infiltrating the app, a bunch of
trolls who just joined it to sort of annoy other
like diehard conservatives who were trying to use it seriously.
And then the FBI started contacting users because you know,
if you've ever used like Tinder or Bumble, they'll give
(35:50):
you like those little prompts like what is your perfect
date light go blah blah blah. One of the prompts
was January sixth was oh yes, they was like January
sixth was blank, And a bunch of like people on
the app started writing stuff in response to that, indicating
that they had been at the riot or like been
(36:10):
at the protest. So they started getting contacted by the FBI,
and you know, it was just a flop and a
terrible way to launch.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
And this endeavor.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
The thing that did not flop and has not been
flopping is the Right Stuff's TikTok, which seems to be
what MC and tee has been doing while he waits
to see what the outcome of November will be. And
the video about him handing out fake money to homeless
people is the surface of how gross this TikTok account is.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It's not like any other dating app where you'll have.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
Like couples talking about how they met or like stupid
little jokes about how shitty it is to date in
these modern times. It's literally just him eating plates of
food and making the most like asinine right wing commentary,
and then it'll veer into like the really racist and
hateful he loves to talk about, like why do white
people get hate for slavery when everyone does it? And
(37:01):
that kind of thing. So it's just like your typical
sort of like right wing trumper who's kind of in
limbo right now and has decided the way he's going
to make a name for himself is by just becoming
like a MAGA influencer.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah wow. One of the videos he showed, he said.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
He was just kidding, Yeah, the whomeless one.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
So I guess he sort of knows that he could
get in trouble for this.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Oh yeah, I think he absolutely knows.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
I reached out to him for an article we wrote
in Rolling Stone, and when I asked him, like, were
you serious about this? Do you actually do this? He
basically told me to like read the caption of the video. So,
according to him, it's a joke. But once again, I
don't see how anyone with empathy or just like a
monochrome of respect for other people discussing.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah, it's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Now we need to talk about Rudy Giuliani has had
a tough, tough go of it.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
There's a lesson here about being a lawyer for Trump.
Talk to us about.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Rudy speaking of election deniers.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
So, Rudy Giuliani for a long time has had a
radio show hosted by WABC.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And it's a station owned by John Casta. Mattides.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yes, it is Trump humper, John Trump Humper, and yeah,
and also the guy who owns Cristiities for those of
you who lip in the Tristate area.
Speaker 7 (38:18):
Oh really, I did not know that. Oh yes, well,
I think in the aftermath of the dominion lawsuit, which
was catastrophic for Fox News. A lot of cro Trump
media outlets realized that by continuing to push lies about
the twenty twenty election, they were exposing themselves to litigation.
So WABC instituted a policy basically saying like, we're not
(38:41):
gonna air claims disputing the legitimacy of the twenty twenty election,
and last week Castidian WABC announced that Giuliani's radio show
had not only been canceled, but that Giuliani had been
suspended indefinitely because as it goes, According to Casta Mattides,
Giuliani had been warned multiple times that he was not
(39:01):
allowed to continue espousing like his conspiracy theories about the
twenty twenty election, and he directly told him, I'm not
gonna stop.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
By a right to say this. You can't stop me.
So they were like, all right, we're not going to
air your shit.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
And you know, Giuliani has been taking el's all over
the place regarding the election conspiracy theories at best.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
I mean, yeah, he now is.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
Like one hundred and forty eight million dollars to two
Georgia election workers that he spread conspiracy theories about He's
obviously indicted in Georgia. I believe he also got indicted
in Arizona, and he's on the hook for a ton
of attorneys fees that he has not paid. And I
think it just goes to show. And I'm we're seeing
it a lot as well, with the current Trump trial
(39:42):
in Manhattan and Michael Cohen's testimony that the people in
Trump's Trump so far has not been held to account
in any legal way about over the shit heepoled in
twenty twenty. The people who are typically held to account
are the lawyers, the lackeys, the ass kissers around him,
And I just don't it boggles my mind how someone
who's been put through the wringer like this, with like lawsuits,
(40:05):
criminal indictments, like even your lawyers are like, we can't
represent you anymore because you're not paying us, would still
be pushing to protect Trump in this way, with like
the idea that it will save him. It's never saved anyone.
He throws anyone under the bus as soon as they
become a problem for him. So I don't know, you'd
think he would have learned his lesson. He absolutely has not.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's pretty funny, though, it.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Is pretty funny, Like I have no sympathy for these people.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's a real lesson to other people.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
So talk to us about what else you're seeing in
this cast of characters, you know, the sort of that
outer layer of Trump World. I mean some of them
are going to the trial with him, some of them,
what are they up to?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
These people?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
All of these people are, you know, making their pilgrimages
to Manhattan to show support for Trump, just like flitting
around like little gnats around his head because they're all
looking for a place in a potential future in minutes
A A lot of them are up for reelection, especially
the ones that are showing up to the trials, So
they want that endorsement. They want to attach themselves to
(41:08):
Trump and hope that the enthusiasm for him among his
base continues to rub off on them. But I think
a lot of people are really just waiting in the wings,
making themselves available and showing that when Trump comes in.
And this will take us back a little bit to mcine.
We spoke to some sources in Trump world who say
that Trump remains like really enthusiastic about potentially hiring him.
(41:31):
If mcine were to be hired, he would have a
very similar job as he had for the first Trump
administration and on the twenty twenty campaign, which is ensuring
that all the federal agencies, all of the cabinet positions,
all of the staffing that Trump would have to do,
is filled by people who are Trump loyalists, sickophants, unquestioning
allies who would not present a barrier to the agenda
(41:55):
that the conservative movement would try to implement if Trump won.
Mcinte was actually higher by the Heritage Foundation to be
like a consultant on Project twenty twenty five and on
a massive database they're building on potential people who are
ultra conservative, pro Trump, die hard Republicans to like basically
(42:16):
have a hiring database on day.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
One of a second Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Jessie Same, can you give us like two seconds on
Laura Lowe Lumer and all the sort of rest of
those kind of the Trump media industrial complex.
Speaker 7 (42:35):
See, Laura Lumer is one of those figures where I
know there's been a lot of chatter about like her
potentially being hired.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Right, No, she's never gonna get hirghed, She's ever going
to begin buy uber. I mean that's pretty bad.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Yeah, we've seen these people before.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
Laura Lumer, surprisingly enough, has endured, whereas people like Milo
Unopolis were kind of just like cast out in the
aftermath of like twenty sixteen then the Trump administration. But
I think with every Trump's cycle we see the resurgence
of the cast of characters who are pushing the misinformation,
saying the things that Trump and other elected officials sort
of hedge or feel like they can't present in any
(43:12):
way outside of like very carefully crafted political speak. They
are surrogates. They are fundamentally mouthpieces for the campaign, for
the administration. They are convenient assets, many of whom are
delusional in the notion that they will be granted positions
of higher power if Trump gets re elected. But I
think we've seen it in Trump's last two campaigns. He's
(43:33):
perfectly happy to use these people as his surrogates, as
his little angry minions. If he wins. They'll continue spouting
their bullshit, they'll continue spreading misinformation, they'll continue supporting his agenda.
But I frankly don't think a lot of the Laura
Lumer types are actually going to make it into government positions.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah no, no, I mean, and there are people just
as bad as Laura Long Lumer probably well, but yes,
I agree.
Speaker 7 (44:02):
Yeah, and who have been much more careful about their
public presentation. Laura Lumer is considered a crazy person even
in Republican circles.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I mean, but there are quite a few other
mac and mac and T is the really scary one.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
It's terrifying, but I think it's also just like a
really good example of the type of person that I
think would make it into a Trump administration because I
was not fully aware of him before I started seeing. First,
I started seeing like one of his less less egregious tiktoks.
I saw one where he was like shitting on the irs,
which like cool, the irs sucks, And became more aware
(44:40):
of him after I started seeing people like stitching his
videos and dunking on him.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
And I think the Homelessness video, which really exploded, finally
drew the connection for people like, oh my god, that's
this guy and this is just sort of like a
rest stop that he's inhabiting between now and November is
so bad, it's really cross.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
Thank you, Nikki, No of Court, It's always my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
No Mo.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Jesse Canon, Mai jungk Fest.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
You know how like the kids say that people are
entering their blank era. I feel like Rudy is still
in his rake face era.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I don't know what that means, but and I think
that's something the youngs say to each other. But I
would like to say Rudy Giuliani's eightieth birthday, he had
it at a political Republican political strategist for Carrie Lake's
house in Palm Beach.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That sentence is pretty cursed. It was a big group of.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
People, and hidden among those people was the process server
who actually sang him happy birthday. Oh what a happy birthday.
It was birthday. By the way, his birthday is until
later in the week the present. He celebrates his birthday
on the Friday of the week. But anyway, right, he
had just tweeted about how much he was not going
(46:05):
to be served, and how he was did not want
to be served, and how he wasn't going to be served,
and how he was going to get off, and it
turns out that in fact none of that was true
and he got served. In Rudy Giuliani his eightieth birthday
is our moment of fuck ray. That's it for this
(46:27):
episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
To hear the best minds in politics makes sense of
all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please
send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
And again, thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and Donald Trump Junior says, I'm getting
an MSNBC weekend show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have an amazing show for you today.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Senator Bernie Sanders stops by to talk about bringing progressives
back on the Biden train. Then we'll talk to Rolling Stones,
NICKI McCann Ramirez about John McEntee, who is a likely
Trump administration official if we are very unlucky, and how
he likes to make TikTok spragging about his cruelty to
(00:38):
the homeless. But first we have the host of the
Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project, z own Rick Wilson. Welcome
back to Fast Politics, my poor sick friend, Rick Wilson.
Rick Wilson, I want to talk about last night's spicy
(00:59):
AFT after hours hearing. On Thursday night, when the Freedom
Caucus was done spending the day with Donald J. Trump
at his criminal trial, they came back to hold a
late night hearing to complain about I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Go first off, and folks, I'm going to apologize I
have pneumonia right now and for the good of the order,
I'm still doing the show. Yeah, so I sound like
dragged over ass, But here we go. There is no
pleasure in the world greater than seeing a bully get
smacked in the face. And Marjorie Taylor Green is a terrorist,
she is an abuser, she is a bully, she's a punk.
(01:44):
And when she went at Jasmine Crockett during that hearing
on Thursday night, and folks, this is late at night.
This is like ten o'clock at night. And so I'm
sick as a dog. I'm laying there in bed and
renamed my Fance pokes me. She's like, oh my god,
you have to wake up. You have to watch this clip.
I'm thinking, oh God, kill me now. But no, it
(02:05):
was so worth it because Margie Taylor Green starts going
at Jasmine Crockett, saying, oh, your false eyelashes are blocking
you can't see. She'd already gone at AOC a few
minutes before, and Jasmine Crockett just said, I believe I
have exhausted the supply of focks available to me in
the Greater Washington metropolitan area. And she just went right
at her. And I got to tell you, do I
wish we had a world where people in Congress debated
(02:26):
the key issues and the intellectual framework of their ideas. Sure,
but in the meantime, every day the Republicans are bringing
a flamethrower into the room, and sometimes you have to
punch them right in the face. And that's why watching
Rask and Swallowell, Moskuwitz Kroc, watching them go after their
Republican colleagues, when the Republicans come in with these ridiculous
(02:47):
stud casting ideas and these ridiculous pranks, watching them get
checked on it is a real pleasure.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, I think what was interesting. I mean, so that
was the oversight hearing about.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Judge Merchant's daughter. That's what Green claimed it was about,
or something.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Right, But I actually think that it was an issue
of contempt for Garland over his refusal to turn over
the audio recordings of Biden's Herr interview.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
All they wanted them for was to leak them to Fox.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Right, to leak them to Fox already use them in
some kind of untoward way. But what is interesting was
that the question that Green asked was trumpy propaganda, which
a journalist from New York Magazine saw him editing what
his surrogates were going to say. Outside of the courthouse
about how Judge Mershon's daughter is paid by Democrats.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So you see the through line here.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
MTG asked the Democrat if they paid Judge Murshan's daughter.
So the through line here is that Marjorie Taylor Green
is disseminating the trumpy propaganda. And it's not even a hearing,
it's an oversight hearing, and it's not even about that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
One thing to remember, Molly is that the Republicans operate
on a continuity of message all the time. Yeah, the
rules for Republicans about messaging are absolutely inviable. You must
stay on message. And the message right now is that
Trump wants everybody out there beating up on the judge's daughter.
That's the message. That's all they care about.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
The gag order protects only the family of the judge
and the DA, not the judge and the DA for
whom he's allowed to say whatever he wants.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
And look, I don't think anybody is going to mistake
Donald Trump for somebody who follows the rules, or who
plays by the rules, or who believes in the rules.
The gag order technically says that Trump can't induce others
to violate the rules. Either, and yet he does. Why
does he get away with it? Well, he gets away
with it because the judge recognizes he's only got a
(04:48):
few days of this asshole in his court room left,
and he didn't end up wanting to be the guy
who put Donald Trump in prison as much as we
would have all enjoyed it. Here we are.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
I think it's probably a smart move.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, And Mrshawn is trying to run this.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Trial like a professional, right and also just as carefully
as possible. Tuesday we had the Speaker in the House
at the trial and he was doing it. Obviously, Trump
saved his job. He feels, you know, in Trump world,
you have to pay back right away. I think this
has downstream consequences, Like I think that there are a
(05:24):
lot of voters who see the Speaker of the House
at the ex president's criminal trial and they're turned off
by that.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Am I crazy?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
No, You're not crazy? And actually, look, I'm a big
fan of the Lol. Nothing matters philosophy, But in this situation,
what you're seeing is in a country where every single
day you've got a guy Mike Johnson screaming the border
is unsecure. We're being overrun. This is a problem. That's
a problem. Fentanyl this and immigrants that, all this stuff, right,
(05:56):
all this mania, all these like crazy shout match things
that they're always involved in, and it's like, Okay, where
where are you are? Are you actually making any kind
of effort to fix the problem, You actually try to
actually solve the issue? Of course not, of course not.
The reason they're not trying to solve the issue is
because they benefit only when the issue continues. They benefit
(06:17):
only when the issue is an ongoing crisis rather than
a solved crisis. And so they're going to pretend that
the most important thing they can do is go and
stand with Donald Trump. But it really just speaks to
the unbelievable shallowness and emptiness of the Republicans as a party,
because there's no there there anymore, there's no issue, right.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
But do you think voters see that and are turned
off by it?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I think a lot of the voters that I talk to,
and my cohort of voters that we you know, the
ex Republicans, the moderate Democrats, the independence a lot of
those people are turned off by this stuff. They do
find it to be just egregious and tiresome and like,
when will they take take the world seriously for one
damn minute.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Here's another thought I have.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So a lot of these Senate candidates who are running
in swing year districts have stopped talking about how the
twenty twenty election was stolen.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
They have stopped.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
They are no longer pushing some of these trumpy lives.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They're doing it because they think it'll help them get elected.
But I'm curious if they're doing that. They obviously have
seen polls that show it doesn't play. So if that
doesn't play, how does the Speaker of the House going
to Donald Trump's criminal trial help them keep the House?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
That is the apperable question. Republicans are always caught now
in the horns of a terrible dilemma. And I want
to say this for folks listening, every single Republican the
UC say Elachi was stolen. Trump's being railroaded deep State,
Even in his most passionate supporters, not one of them
believe that's true. They know it's not true. No one
of them, none, zero the number, even Matt Gates and
(07:57):
Merge and all the crazies, none of them them believe
that's true. They know it's not true. They know it's
a lie. These rich guys that are paying their consultants
a ton of money to tell them how to not
lose are very nervous right now because you know, if
they want to win primaries, if they want to keep
the magas happy, they've got to say that Trump was
cheated and all this other garbage if they want to
(08:18):
not get their heady into too them in the general election.
They get nothing out of pretending otherwise. Nothing good comes
from them doing this except more pain from regular voters
when the time comes making these arguments, it means you're
just not serious as a person.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So thread the needle here for me, though, I mean,
Mike Johnson is obviously going to get reelected because he's
in an R plus two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Right, well billion, right, But.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Like I mean, does this hurt a Mike Lawler? Does
this hurt a d Esposito? Does this hurt in California
and New York State? There are you know about ten
or twelve total swing state members of Congress, that's.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
And in those areas, those people if they bite this apple,
if they start up with these talking points.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Like Lawler voted for both impeachments.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah, and those things are a burden to them now.
And a lot of the people on the MAGA side
of the equation will sort of nod and say, oh,
I have to do this and wink behind the scenes,
But they're having to do all this on the record.
They don't get to hide this. They don't get to
pretend that this isn't happening. They don't get to pretend
that they're not part of the MAGA game plan, the
MAGA movement. Once you start voting that way, you are
(09:31):
that person, right.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
And do you think that that will come back to
get them in the elections?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Look, I think it doesn't help them. I think it
actively hurts their chances. And again, in these swing seats,
voters are not telling us, Oh my god, my number
one concern is Donald Trump's being persecuted.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Now, is anyone telling you that.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
No one's telling us that. It literally does not appear
in any survey research outside of like the pages of Breitbart.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Right, So that's like an important data point.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Yeah, it's a little bit of a thing. We're not
in a world where the things that MAGA voters respond
to when they're clicking the directed email link may care
about one set of things, but that's not what regular
voters are caring about at all.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Also, I kind of think, Molly, I kind of maybe
I'll get your opinion on this. Doesn't it feel just
kind of like the shtick is worn out?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I mean, I'm very bored with it. But that's just me.
I mean, I am just barely limpy along.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
You and I are very different people than the average
MAGA voter. But at some point, you know, the lies
of Trump's being persecuted and the election was told all that,
it just feels tired. It feels broken and worn out.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, I think they're going to try to run on
that forever, but I just don't totally understand where that
gets them.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It's one thing to believe in your causes and your
concerns and the things your movement wants you to believe in.
It's another thing when the movement asks you to believe
in things that you know are object actively, untrue and dumb,
and that are issues for losers right right right. And look,
I've said this for a million years. The only way
you're going to beat MAGA is to beat Trump and
(11:11):
to eventually cause so much pain in their electoral lives
that they go, well, maybe this isn't.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Workking, That's the only way. And I still think the
fact that Nikki Haley has not endorsed, and that you
have these people who are keeping their powder dry is
really important.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Nicki Haley still continues to wreck up. If she continues
to wreck up fifteen to twenty percent of the vote
everywhere she goes, without being in the campaign, without having
a campaign, without spending money in a campaign, just because
she's not Donald Trump, it's a signal inside of a
lot of the noise that I think people should be
paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Do you think that Trump's people, I mean, while they
would never admit anything, do you think that they see
that that's a problem or are they just fully foe
focused on flipping Minnesota as this news psychle was today.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I mean, the idea that we're going to flip Minnesota
is fascinating. Meanwhile, I'm sure that they're very competitive in
Hawaii as well. Yeah, so you know that level of
self delusion, man, that is respectable. That is really something.
But I think las Avita and Susie Wilds and a
bunch of these other people do understand that they need
to make this election a referendum on Joe Biden. That's
(12:27):
hard when Donald Trump spends every day making it a
referendum on him.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, it is definitely true.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So let's talk about the big news was that their
debates have been set.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I am thrilled. Okay, I will say this. First off,
let's not forget Joe Biden beat Donald Trump in two
debates in twenty twenty, beat him like a drum. No,
we're not pretending here, We're not like half asking this.
Donald Trump did not do well.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Did not know.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Donald Trump will not have the one thing he truly
wants in this debate is audience. The second thing he
won't have in this debate is RFK. He really needed
RFK as a distraction, as a sideline, as a cat's
paw in this thing, and he's not going to have it.
But the lack of an audience and the fact that
he's got essentially you know, look, are they perfect? Maybe not.
(13:18):
Are there going to be good reporters who are not
going to let Trump completely get away with bullshit? I
think they will be.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I think Jake Tapper doesn't want to be a guy
who ends up looking like an a hole by letting
Trump get away with murder at one of two debates.
And I think the fact that it's not a Fox debate,
it's not an audience debate, I think all these things
add up in a way that is pretty beneficial to
the president. And again, I just want to say this
one more time, because people always underestimate Joe Biden every
(13:46):
goddamn time they go, oh, this State of the Union
will be a disaster if he doesn't do it perfectly.
And he's blown both States of the Union performances out
of the water, and I think he's going to do
the same of the debates. I'm much more sanguine about
Biden in these debates than a lot of people. I
just I think he's much better out of the people think.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Well, that is what we've seen again and again and again.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Right when he is called and he needs to step up,
the guy steps up. And also, let's not pretend that
Trump is some masterful performer at the same level he
was in twenty sixteen. He's lost a not a step,
he's lost a mile.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I'm right, Trump is not the he's not.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
The same guy that he was. And while Biden is older,
while Biden is older. Trump in many ways feels just
weaker and out of control and less capable than he
ever has.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
We have two more days or three more days, one
more week of the Trump trial.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
This will probably be the last week coming up.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
What do you think again, these are like downstream effects
of the Trump trial.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Do we think they exist? What do we think?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Well, look, one thing we know about voters right now
is they're not really moved by old information about Trump. Yeah,
it feels very baked in the cake for a lot
of voters. Yes he's a scumbag, Yes he's a weirdo.
Yes he's a bad guy. But there are a lot
of things that feel fresher about this whole case because
nobody's had to review all this crap for years, right,
(15:12):
No one's had to think about this for years.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, which I.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Am kind of fascinated by the degree to which people
had forgotten what a scumbag the guy was. The people
had left behind the idea of just who and how
venal and criminal and creepy and nasty he is.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Thank you, Rick Wilson, Molly.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
You are welcome as always. I'm now going to go
back to bed.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Spring is here, and I bet you are trying to
look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all
new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store
with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,
and top bags. To grab some head to Fast politics
dot com. Bernie Sanders is the senior Senator from Vermont.
(16:05):
Welcome back to Fast Politics, Senator Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Well, it's great to be with you, Maia, Thanks for
coming on.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
You wrote a really good ab about what a second
Biden term would look like and more importantly, sort of
how the progressive job needs to keep going. And I
actually believe Biden has been a really progressive president.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Will you talk to us about that?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Yeah, it is no secret to any of the listeners
that we are living in a moment in American history
where we say some unprecedented challenges. What has not widely
talked about, what is true is we're living in an
oligarthic form of society. We have more income in wealth
inequality today and have performed in American history. People on
(16:48):
top doing fantastically, But sixty percent of the Americans are
living paycheck to paycheck. Six hundred thousand are sleeping out
on the streets. All right, We're dealing with climate change,
and if we don't solve that problem through international cooperation,
the planet that we're going to be leaving our children
will be increasingly uninhabitable and unhealthy. We are looking at
the time when women's right, the right of women that
(17:09):
control their own bodies, is being taken away from them,
and many many other issues that are out there. But
we're looking at some really tough times and the American
people are going to stand together and fight back to
create the kind of government that works for all of
us and not just a few.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You've been like one of the great progressive champions of
Joe Biden. I feel like progressives are mad at Biden
for any number of reasons. Biden World has passed incredible
progressive legislation when it comes to American manufacturing or even climate.
But there are certainly a lot of places where you
know they're upset, and I mean, what do you say
(17:43):
to them?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
How do you talk to them about it?
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Well, that's that's a really good question something that we
are looking at. People are upset at Biden. I think
primarily because of this war in Gossip, which has been
a humanitarian disaster led by Nettignelle White being expremience. In
my view that yo should not have gotten a nickel
from the American taxpayer is that's stop with Biden thinks,
(18:05):
and people are very upset about that. But what I
would ask people to consider is when you look at politics,
to understand that Joe Biden is not running against God
in this election. He's running against a guy named Donald Trump.
And Donald Trump was the most dangerous president in American
history in my view, and he will be more dangerous
in the next four years. So what I would say
(18:27):
to people out there, well, I'm angry at Biden. Fine,
I am angry at him as well, and I talked
to him about this biggest policies on God's the odd
dead run. But on the other hand, if you are concerned,
let's just say about income and wealth inequality and the
rights of work as well. Guess what, Joe Biden was
the first president in American history to walk on a
picket line with striking workers. He is pro union, he
(18:48):
is pro work. You know what. Donald Trump is very
much the opposite. If you're concerned about climate change, which
I would hope everybody in America is, you know what,
Donald Trump's view on climate changes, he thinks that's a
hopes And you've indicated Biden has been very strong. We
put more money into transforming our energies to some of
the Biden's than any president in americanistry. Why are you
concerned about women's right? Well, Donald Trump raggs that he
(19:10):
appointed three members of the Supreme Quarta over term roby Wait.
Biden has been solidly pro choice on and on and go.
So is there a real fundamental difference between these two candidates?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Is Biden everything that the progressive community would like? No?
But I think what we've got to do is look
at the totality of the situation and strongly support not
only Biden, but other progressive candidates all over the country.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I mean, we're both Jewish.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
You are from an older generation than I am, no offense,
and your generation, like my parents' generation, lived through the Holocaust.
So you have, or at least the people in my parents' generation,
have a real connection to Israel in a way that
maybe I, as in the younger generation, don't.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Necessarily.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I'm curious you must have had a lot of feeling
about this in a way that I mean, I have
such a lot of feeling about this, if that makes sense,
you know, no.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Are you right? I do understand where you come from, Allian. Look,
there has always been sympathy in this country for Israel
because that is the place where a Jewish people deathsimated
with six million murders by Hitler, went and tried to
rebuild a society where they can live in peace and security,
and there has been widespread support for that concept for
(20:24):
a decade. What is happening now and it does personally
break my art. I got to tell you that is
that this is not the Israel up ten twenty thirty
years ago. This is not gold in my ears, you
suck from being This is Benjamin N'tena who and Benjamin
n'atena who is a right wing extremist who is allied
(20:44):
in his government with people who are out and out
anti Palestinian racist, and everybody in America. I don't know
there's anybody in America who doesn't believe that Israel had
the right to defend itself against this horrific Kama terrorist
attack on US. Israel had the right to dependence helps
but Israel did not and does not have the right
(21:04):
to go to war against the entire Palestinian people and
the death so the number of wounded, sixty five percent
of them women and children. The destruction of housing, the
displacement of people, the destruction of the healthcarecer and no
electricity right now, the people being pushed around like their
cattle going in right now and wrap up six hundred
thousand people being displaced after they even displaced before. Very
(21:27):
few people in Erica or around the world thinks about
as successful.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
My grandfather was this writer called Howard Fast who is
a communist and Jew.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Oh I remember that, I knew the name Howard's Nail.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, that was my grandpa.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And one of the fights he had a lot was
with the people like the parents of John pod Horns
Norman pod Horns, Jews, who felt that Jews had to
be conservative and it was like a very anti Semitic trope.
And I feel like we're seeing Trump do that trope
again in there, and I really do feel they're trying
(22:02):
to divide blacks and Jews the way they did in
the sixties.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Well, Look, you know it's always hard to talk about
Trump because he is so outrageous, but you know, the
idea that any Jewish person who is critical of net
Yahoo is you know, shouldn't be you know, voting democratic
or all. This stuff is beyond the pale. But I
think what we are saying right now, and you know,
it's ironic that in many of the schools that where
(22:29):
they were protests, a non insignificant number of the kids
were Jews who are legitimately upset about what net yaz So.
I think the point is, and I hope everybody understands this.
If you disagree with the policies of the Italian government,
they're not anti You've disagree with the policies of the
Irish government. You don't hate Irish people, you know. So
what you have now is, you know net Yao, who's
(22:51):
not the king of the Jews. He is a right winger,
he miss who's the Prime Minister of Israel. And you
can strongly disagree with net Yao and not be antisemitic.
And anyone who suggests otherwise is really expressing a terrible thought.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
You are one of the very few candidates I think
of in modern history who connected with young people in
a completely unexpected and profound way, much like Barack Obama.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I'm sure it's hard to sort.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Of explain why, But can you just give us a
tiny bit of an idea of why you think that happened.
Speaker 4 (23:27):
Well, I think for a couple of reasons. Number one,
the younger generation in America today is probably the most
progressive generation in the history of this country. This is
a generation that is very strongly anti racist, anti sexist,
anti homophobe. And also, this is a generation that sees
through bullshit and I think just wants to be told
(23:48):
the truth. And that's what I try to do. You
agree with me or disagree with maybe I'm going to
tell you, you know, the way I see it and
the way I see it. Also for this younger generation
is that despite the fact that you're looking being in
the wealthiest country in the history of the world, guess
what this younger generation everything being equal on as we change,
it is going to have a lower standard of living
than their parents. So when you talk about income in
(24:11):
wealth inequality, when you talk about the greed of the
American ruling class, when you talk about people not being
able to afford housing, paying you know, tremendous amounts of
money on their student debt, that resonates with young people.
And you know, I think it should right now.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
This is like a dark moment with polling, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
If you were running Joe Biden's campaign, what would you
do right now?
Speaker 4 (24:33):
What I would do? And you know we've talked to
the President about this and his team is You've got
to understand that while Biden has done, as you've indicated,
a number of good things are he stood with unions,
We're rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. We're lowering the costs of
prescription drums. He is fighting for women's rights and the
(24:53):
right women to control their own bodies. I mean, there's
a long, long list of accomplishments which he has a
right to be proud. But you have to appreciate is
that at the end of the day, all over this country,
Vermont from America, people are struggling and you've got to
give them an gender and hope that things will be
better in the future. Just can't look at, Hey, look
(25:13):
at what I've done in the last four years. For example,
we have a dysfunctional health cassis. It is outrageous to
the expensive and the results if the outcomes are not
particularly good compared to other countries. Prisidents kind of get
up and say you know what. Healthcare is the human right.
We are going to move to universal health cay. I
don't give if you're rich and poor, you're going to
be able to get healthy you need because you're a
human being. We have made some progress, some progress in
(25:36):
taking on the pharmaceutical industry, and it is say that
the Union. He indicated that he wants to do more,
but he's got to stand up to the greed of
the drug companies and make it clear we're going to
significantly low drug prices in America. And I'll tell you
something in Vermont that I think in many many states,
this housing situation is really a crisis. You get some
rents are going up, mortgages are going up, and see
(25:57):
you's got to say, you know what, instead of giving
tax pray the billion as, we're going to start building
the millions of units of blowing from an affordable housing
that we should have built years ago. We're going to
raise the minimum wage to a living wage. We're going
to make it easier for workers the form unions. I mean,
there are progressive ideas out there that are all very popular.
Give you another one right now, you talk to an
older person, talk to somebody on social security on Medicare.
(26:20):
They will tell you, my god, I wish that Medicare
would come a dental hearing envision because they can't afford it.
Biden campaigns that overwhelming support. Everything that I'm telling you
is enormously popular, but it requires you to take on
powerful special interests. That's what I think Biden should be doing.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
I mean, he definitely has passed a lot of legislation
that is progressive.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
What is the logjam? Here is it?
Speaker 1 (26:44):
And I do think he's ideologically moved, you know, like
this marijuana staff is a big deal, and it seems
like it's a very reactive administration in a way you want, right,
like you say, you know you can't. You know, he's
tried to cancel Student Dad. He's trying to work around
that now.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
And well, the way Mallya's not that he has tried
to He hasn't done that, not as far as I
would go. Right, he canceled the student that I don't know.
I don't know if you've talked to anybody.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But then the Supreme Court overturned it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Despite that, he's been able to get around it. Millions
of people today in America and I've got people have
got to appreciate that I talked to a woman that
teacher eighty thousand dollars student that will changed her life,
and that is true for millions of other people. Yes,
so that's a real accomplishment that he should be proud of.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
You have been in the center for a long time.
You really know how this works. What is the log jam?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Do you think the log jam is the different We
live in a corrupt political system in which big money
plays these very significant roles. Right, So if you want
to do what is immensely popular, for example, expand Medica
to cover dental jeering and vision, you can have to
take on very powerful people in the insurance industry. Okay,
(28:00):
if you want to make sure that we join every
other country and everything guarantee healthcare all people as a right,
or a Medicare for all program or whatever, you're going
to have to take on the insurance industry, very very powerful.
If you want to demand that the rich start paying
their fair share taxes, man, you're going to have to
take on some of those powerful people in the world
who are delighted that they've had an effective tax rate
(28:22):
lower than you pay. That's what they want. They don't
want to pay any taxes, you got to take them on.
So the question is do you have an administration and
a political movement prepared to take some on. In many ways,
the Democrats sets up with the Democrats, or a lot
of Democrats are And that's the kind of log jam.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Part of it is executive orders, and part of it
is messaging these accomplishments.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Well, it's messaging accomplishments, and it's also giving people hope
that the future will be better because a lot of
people today they're worried about their parents, they're worried about
their kids, they're worried about the environment. And you have
to say, look, I understand that these are tough times.
Democracy is you know, we talked about Donald Trump. This
is a guy who is an authoritarian type you does
(29:04):
not believe in democracy. So you've got to aut like that.
But you also have got to have a vision for
the future that people say, Okay, for next four years,
we're going to really accomplish. As you know, one of
the problems that Biden has happened, not his fault, is
that right now you have right wing Republicans controlling the House.
Very hard to do anything under those circumstances, and then
two years before that we had two corporate Democrats in
(29:26):
the Senate, which prevent them us asking some really sweeping
legislation like build back American voting rights.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Will you hit the trail with mine?
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Yeah, I mean to agree that the administration wants. You know,
we have talked about this and I and others are
trying to figure out the most effective role that we
can pipe.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Are you proud of the politician that AOC has become.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I am very proud of them. She and I just
did a podcast the other day, actually, and she is
a very you know, and I use the word politician
here in the best sense of the words.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Not in the negative and the positive.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Yeah, not in a negative you know, being in a
democratic society, being a politician, you know, it's not a
negative thing. But I think she understands where she has
come from, and you grew up in a you know,
a struggling family, and I think she understands what people
all over this country are experiencing. And I think she
is incredibly articulate. She is a great leader today. And
(30:22):
I think there are a lot of people, especially young people,
young people of colored women, who looked at her with admiration.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You have influenced America so much, probably more than any
other single senator.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Are you optimistic?
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I am nervous about the future of this country. What
I am nervous about, Molly, is that a lot of
people are so discouraged or so cynical that they're giving
up on democracy. And we have got to revive hope.
We have got to make sure that young people understand
that they, in fact can create a very different type
of America where all people can live in dignity and security.
(31:01):
We can deal with climate change. So I am nervous,
but I am not unoptimistic because throughout American history. You know,
this country, I don't want to sound rhetorical yet, but
it has responded to challenges. We've gone through terrible civil wore,
the racism, the segregation that existed, World War two, the Depression,
terrible times in American history, and yet the country has
(31:21):
come together and move forward. And I hope very much
and believe that we can do.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
That at the time.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Thank you, Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 4 (31:28):
Well, thank you very much. Enjoyed chatting McKinnon.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Nicki mckat ramirez is a reporter at Rolling Stone. Welcome
to Fast Politics.
Speaker 5 (31:37):
Nikki, Hi, Mollie, thank you so much for having me back.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
So Jesse and I will talking about this video on
the soon to be gone TikTok and it was a
guy talking about giving counterfeit money to homeless people so
that they would get arrested. It's the kind of cruel
(32:03):
day that really feels trumpy.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Turns out, tell us who this guy is?
Speaker 5 (32:08):
Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 7 (32:10):
So listeners might have seen this video of this like
violently oranged man with a really bleached smile, pulling out
like faked dollar bills from his console and talking about
how like, oh, like I give these two homeless people,
I'm like cleaning up the streets because when they use them,
they get arrested. And in the caption of the video,
he wrote like it's a joke, calm down. But of
course that begs the question like what kind of person
(32:32):
thinks this is in any way funny? And that person
is John mcintee, who not only is one of the
founders of the miserably performing right wing dating app The
Right Stuff, he's also a former Trump administration official who
is at this moment being considered for a return position
(32:52):
should Trump win in November and he has a really
just gross history within Trump world.
Speaker 6 (32:59):
So tell us a little bit about that gross history
within Trump world.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 7 (33:04):
John mcintee was hired into the Trump administration as kind
of a personal aid to Trump. He was head of
the White House Personnel Office, and there's a wonderful article
in The Atlantic, I believe about how insane that office was.
He had a habit of hiring really hot women and
really unattractive men who were non threatening to him. And
(33:25):
as head of that office, he was in charge of
basically bringing on liaisons who would operate as the go
betweens between the White House and major federal agencies.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
And his reputation was that.
Speaker 7 (33:37):
He would only hire diehard Trump loyalists who were extremely
aggressive in their relationships with these federal agencies. Would constantly
be pressuring other government officials outside of the White House,
sort of direct sphere to show more loyalty to Trump,
bad mouthing people who he perceived as like not being
super loyal to Trump. In twenty eighteen, he actually got
(33:58):
fired from the White House because failed background check.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I'm shocked, shocking.
Speaker 7 (34:03):
He you can kind of tell just by his general
vibe apparently had a concerning gambling habit sports gambling in
particular was I think the one it was. But he
was basically ousted from the White House and in twenty
twenty was re hired by the Trump campaign to serve
as sort of like a personnel liaison. And yeah, obviously
Trump loses in twenty twenty, but mcintee, even in the
(34:26):
last days of the administration, was still planning out, interviewing
and vetting potential hires for a second Trump term. He
was a true believer that the election had been stolen.
He actually wrote a memo to Mike Pence's chief of
staff talking about how, like h. Thomas Jefferson used his
vice presidential powers to secure the presidency and making like
(34:47):
a very very dubious legal argument about how Mike Pence
could usurp the certification of Biden's election. But to the
very end, he was still helping Donald Trump prepare for
a second term amidst all of the like efforts to
overturn the twenty twenty election that didn't pan out. In
that in between, mac and Tee launched, along with two
(35:10):
other co founders, and the backing of Peter Teel launched
the Right Stuff, which was is because it still exists
despite its lack of performance. A dating app aimed at conservatives,
and from its launch, the app was a bit of
a joke. It really lacked female users, It was overrun
by trolls.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
Yeah, it was invite only when it.
Speaker 7 (35:30):
First launched, and like people were just like giving out
the invites willy nilly. So they ended up getting like
a bunch of journalists infiltrating the app, a bunch of
trolls who just joined it to sort of annoy other
like diehard conservatives who were trying to use it seriously.
And then the FBI started contacting users because you know,
if you've ever used like Tinder or Bumble, they'll give
(35:50):
you like those little prompts like what is your perfect
date light go blah blah blah. One of the prompts
was January sixth was oh yes, they was like January
sixth was blank, And a bunch of like people on
the app started writing stuff in response to that, indicating
that they had been at the riot or like been
(36:10):
at the protest. So they started getting contacted by the FBI,
and you know, it was just a flop and a
terrible way to launch.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
And this endeavor.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
The thing that did not flop and has not been
flopping is the Right Stuff's TikTok, which seems to be
what MC and tee has been doing while he waits
to see what the outcome of November will be. And
the video about him handing out fake money to homeless
people is the surface of how gross this TikTok account is.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It's not like any other dating app where you'll have.
Speaker 7 (36:39):
Like couples talking about how they met or like stupid
little jokes about how shitty it is to date in
these modern times. It's literally just him eating plates of
food and making the most like asinine right wing commentary,
and then it'll veer into like the really racist and
hateful he loves to talk about, like why do white
people get hate for slavery when everyone does it? And
(37:01):
that kind of thing. So it's just like your typical
sort of like right wing trumper who's kind of in
limbo right now and has decided the way he's going
to make a name for himself is by just becoming
like a MAGA influencer.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah wow. One of the videos he showed, he said.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
He was just kidding, Yeah, the whomeless one.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
So I guess he sort of knows that he could
get in trouble for this.
Speaker 5 (37:27):
Oh yeah, I think he absolutely knows.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
I reached out to him for an article we wrote
in Rolling Stone, and when I asked him, like, were
you serious about this? Do you actually do this? He
basically told me to like read the caption of the video. So,
according to him, it's a joke. But once again, I
don't see how anyone with empathy or just like a
monochrome of respect for other people discussing.
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Yeah, it's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Now we need to talk about Rudy Giuliani has had
a tough, tough go of it.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
There's a lesson here about being a lawyer for Trump.
Talk to us about.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Rudy speaking of election deniers.
Speaker 7 (38:00):
So, Rudy Giuliani for a long time has had a
radio show hosted by WABC.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And it's a station owned by John Casta. Mattides.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yes, it is Trump humper, John Trump Humper, and yeah,
and also the guy who owns Cristiities for those of
you who lip in the Tristate area.
Speaker 7 (38:18):
Oh really, I did not know that. Oh yes, well,
I think in the aftermath of the dominion lawsuit, which
was catastrophic for Fox News. A lot of cro Trump
media outlets realized that by continuing to push lies about
the twenty twenty election, they were exposing themselves to litigation.
So WABC instituted a policy basically saying like, we're not
(38:41):
gonna air claims disputing the legitimacy of the twenty twenty election,
and last week Castidian WABC announced that Giuliani's radio show
had not only been canceled, but that Giuliani had been
suspended indefinitely because as it goes, According to Casta Mattides,
Giuliani had been warned multiple times that he was not
(39:01):
allowed to continue espousing like his conspiracy theories about the
twenty twenty election, and he directly told him, I'm not
gonna stop.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
By a right to say this. You can't stop me.
So they were like, all right, we're not going to
air your shit.
Speaker 7 (39:13):
And you know, Giuliani has been taking el's all over
the place regarding the election conspiracy theories at best.
Speaker 5 (39:21):
I mean, yeah, he now is.
Speaker 7 (39:22):
Like one hundred and forty eight million dollars to two
Georgia election workers that he spread conspiracy theories about He's
obviously indicted in Georgia. I believe he also got indicted
in Arizona, and he's on the hook for a ton
of attorneys fees that he has not paid. And I
think it just goes to show. And I'm we're seeing
it a lot as well, with the current Trump trial
(39:42):
in Manhattan and Michael Cohen's testimony that the people in
Trump's Trump so far has not been held to account
in any legal way about over the shit heepoled in
twenty twenty. The people who are typically held to account
are the lawyers, the lackeys, the ass kissers around him,
And I just don't it boggles my mind how someone
who's been put through the wringer like this, with like lawsuits,
(40:05):
criminal indictments, like even your lawyers are like, we can't
represent you anymore because you're not paying us, would still
be pushing to protect Trump in this way, with like
the idea that it will save him. It's never saved anyone.
He throws anyone under the bus as soon as they
become a problem for him. So I don't know, you'd
think he would have learned his lesson. He absolutely has not.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
It's pretty funny, though, it.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
Is pretty funny, Like I have no sympathy for these people.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
It's a real lesson to other people.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
So talk to us about what else you're seeing in
this cast of characters, you know, the sort of that
outer layer of Trump World. I mean some of them
are going to the trial with him, some of them,
what are they up to?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
These people?
Speaker 7 (40:48):
All of these people are, you know, making their pilgrimages
to Manhattan to show support for Trump, just like flitting
around like little gnats around his head because they're all
looking for a place in a potential future in minutes
A A lot of them are up for reelection, especially
the ones that are showing up to the trials, So
they want that endorsement. They want to attach themselves to
(41:08):
Trump and hope that the enthusiasm for him among his
base continues to rub off on them. But I think
a lot of people are really just waiting in the wings,
making themselves available and showing that when Trump comes in.
And this will take us back a little bit to mcine.
We spoke to some sources in Trump world who say
that Trump remains like really enthusiastic about potentially hiring him.
(41:31):
If mcine were to be hired, he would have a
very similar job as he had for the first Trump
administration and on the twenty twenty campaign, which is ensuring
that all the federal agencies, all of the cabinet positions,
all of the staffing that Trump would have to do,
is filled by people who are Trump loyalists, sickophants, unquestioning
allies who would not present a barrier to the agenda
(41:55):
that the conservative movement would try to implement if Trump won.
Mcinte was actually higher by the Heritage Foundation to be
like a consultant on Project twenty twenty five and on
a massive database they're building on potential people who are
ultra conservative, pro Trump, die hard Republicans to like basically
(42:16):
have a hiring database on day.
Speaker 5 (42:18):
One of a second Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Jessie Same, can you give us like two seconds on
Laura Lowe Lumer and all the sort of rest of
those kind of the Trump media industrial complex.
Speaker 7 (42:35):
See, Laura Lumer is one of those figures where I
know there's been a lot of chatter about like her
potentially being hired.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Right, No, she's never gonna get hirghed, She's ever going
to begin buy uber. I mean that's pretty bad.
Speaker 5 (42:47):
Yeah, we've seen these people before.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
Laura Lumer, surprisingly enough, has endured, whereas people like Milo
Unopolis were kind of just like cast out in the
aftermath of like twenty sixteen then the Trump administration. But
I think with every Trump's cycle we see the resurgence
of the cast of characters who are pushing the misinformation,
saying the things that Trump and other elected officials sort
of hedge or feel like they can't present in any
(43:12):
way outside of like very carefully crafted political speak. They
are surrogates. They are fundamentally mouthpieces for the campaign, for
the administration. They are convenient assets, many of whom are
delusional in the notion that they will be granted positions
of higher power if Trump gets re elected. But I
think we've seen it in Trump's last two campaigns. He's
(43:33):
perfectly happy to use these people as his surrogates, as
his little angry minions. If he wins. They'll continue spouting
their bullshit, they'll continue spreading misinformation, they'll continue supporting his agenda.
But I frankly don't think a lot of the Laura
Lumer types are actually going to make it into government positions.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah no, no, I mean, and there are people just
as bad as Laura Long Lumer probably well, but yes,
I agree.
Speaker 7 (44:02):
Yeah, and who have been much more careful about their
public presentation. Laura Lumer is considered a crazy person even
in Republican circles.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I mean, but there are quite a few other
mac and mac and T is the really scary one.
Speaker 7 (44:17):
It's terrifying, but I think it's also just like a
really good example of the type of person that I
think would make it into a Trump administration because I
was not fully aware of him before I started seeing. First,
I started seeing like one of his less less egregious tiktoks.
I saw one where he was like shitting on the irs,
which like cool, the irs sucks, And became more aware
(44:40):
of him after I started seeing people like stitching his
videos and dunking on him.
Speaker 5 (44:44):
And I think the Homelessness video, which really exploded, finally
drew the connection for people like, oh my god, that's
this guy and this is just sort of like a
rest stop that he's inhabiting between now and November is
so bad, it's really cross.
Speaker 7 (45:01):
Thank you, Nikki, No of Court, It's always my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
No Mo.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Jesse Canon, Mai jungk Fest.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
You know how like the kids say that people are
entering their blank era. I feel like Rudy is still
in his rake face era.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
I don't know what that means, but and I think
that's something the youngs say to each other. But I
would like to say Rudy Giuliani's eightieth birthday, he had
it at a political Republican political strategist for Carrie Lake's
house in Palm Beach.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That sentence is pretty cursed. It was a big group of.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
People, and hidden among those people was the process server
who actually sang him happy birthday. Oh what a happy birthday.
It was birthday. By the way, his birthday is until
later in the week the present. He celebrates his birthday
on the Friday of the week. But anyway, right, he
had just tweeted about how much he was not going
(46:05):
to be served, and how he was did not want
to be served, and how he wasn't going to be served,
and how he was going to get off, and it
turns out that in fact none of that was true
and he got served. In Rudy Giuliani his eightieth birthday
is our moment of fuck ray. That's it for this
(46:27):
episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
To hear the best minds in politics makes sense of
all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please
send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
And again, thanks for listening.
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