November 6, 2023 • 50 mins
The Lincoln Project's Rick Wilson forecasts the likelihood of the GOP being unable to keep the government open during Speaker Mike Johnson's tenure. The Washington Post's Will Sommer surveys the madness sweeping through the Republican Party. Josh, the editor of the Ettingermentum Newsletter, details Trump and DeSantis's escalated jabs at each other.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and we are now one year out
from the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have such a great show for you today.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The Washington Post Will Somer joins us to talk about
the madness sweeping through the Republican Party. Then we'll talk
to Josh from the et Injermentum newsletter about Trump and
Desanta's escalating jobs at one another. But first we have
the host of the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project z
owned Rick Wilson. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Mollie Jong Fast. I'm delighted to be with you as always,
I mean today from beautiful Savannah, Georgia, for my son's
wedding week.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
This is a very remote little bit of interview. The
two of us are both in weird places. You're in Savannah,
Georgia for your son's wedding, which is the dream of
every parent.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Thank God.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, he means you've done it.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
After the children being wed, it is done. They are
awfully launched. They all have careers and and now I
await but the army of little Extra Wilson's to emerge
into the world.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yes, and Rip Wilson ready to be a grandfather.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
And I am in my mother's apartment cleaning it out.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Very heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So, speaking of heartbreaking, I want to ask you a question.
I've been acting my friends on the Hill all morning. Yeah,
Mike Johnson, Maggie, Mike Johnson. Is he very very stupid?
Or is he playing three dimensional chess? Or is he
eating the pieces? Discuss I have a belief.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That Mike Johnson is like the species of creature that
I discussed periodically called dumb smart guys. He is like
Tad Cruz. He is narrowly intelligent about a certain set
of things that he is very driven by religion. In
his case, it is his cult like dedication to a
small of evangelic anity, which I mean, look, I don't
(02:03):
speak for Jesus, of.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Course, yeah, I do get to be at.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Variance with some Well, he's one of the brethren. I
suspect that the narrow, pinched, fanatic, bizarro world version of
Christianity that Mike Johnson seems to represent is more interested
in telling those biddies to get back in the kitchen
and take those shoes off and have more babies than
the compassion of our Lord and Savior, if you take
(02:29):
my meanings.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But is he playing three dimensional chess when it comes
to he passed so bipartisan sport for this Israel aid package.
So instead of just passing the aid package the way
one would normally do it, he decides he's going to
add quote unquote pay for with the irs. Of course
these offsets offset nothing.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
But what is going on?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
He offsets the costs of the fourteen billion costs by
cutting the.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
IRS, which adds the depicit.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Right, that cut will lead to a twenty three billion
dollar loss a tax collection from the wealthiest taxpayer. I
don't think it's three dimensional chess. I think it's actually
a pretty shallow kind of feed the maga bass play,
because you know, the first thing out there is this
chunk of red meat of cutting the IRS. Now, look,
I guess I missed the ball here on how it
is that you allow the hyper wealthiest tax cheats.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's their donor base.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I missed how that was part of the freedom agenda.
They already are paying a significantly lower tax rate. You
and I are not exactly like your basic bitch ten
forty filers. We're not like in that category where.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
We can do our taxes on the back of a postcard.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
By the way, that was the one thing Trump ever
said where I was like, now this this I could
get interested in.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And by the way, there was never any follow up
on that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Right, But here's the thing, the idea that he's going
to cut the irs. These are the specific programs thereafter
are for these tax scoff laws and tax sheets at
a very high level. And these we're talking about people
who owe tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Of taxes to people like Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And I was just going to say, there are certain
people you might you might know them as America's favorite
first family of failed sons.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I mean, these people deserve like a nineteen sixties TV show.
They really do, like My Three Spawn or something. There's awful.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, the problem is, like, you can't do a TV
show with no likable characters.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
They'll be like, who should we root for in this?
And you're like, the American people, not really.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The meteors strike all of them.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, but we mean that in a completely theoretical sense
and a spiritual sense, and not.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean actual medior plunging.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now you don't anyway moving on to things they cannot
get us.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So where does this go? Right now?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
The setup is a MAGA might need Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell,
I don't think you want to go against Mitchell O'Connell.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Listen, Mitch has lost a step or three. Mitch's old,
tired and not doing well. But let me tell you, Washington,
DC is littered with the bodies of the young and
the song who thought they would take on Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And went yeah, Paul Ryan, I mean that whole crew
has gone.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The young guns, no more guns, no more young. They're out.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
They're now disarmed and elderly and in exile. I think
there's a real argument to be made here that McConnell,
as much as people find him uncomfortable, or they find
their ideological priors are completely different, or they blame him
for any number of things, if you look at Washington
right now, there is a moment where Mitch McConnell and
(05:44):
Chuck Schumer could actually form a ad hoc temporary.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
De facto alliance.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah alliance, And honestly, I think from what I've seen
even among Republicans in the last in the Senate. In
the last couple of weeks, the normy's in the Senate,
and it's a smaller number than it was, but there's
still a plurality of the caucus. Right they're about done
with the bullshit about they don't like Mike Johnson. In fact,
I heard from a chief of staff from one of
(06:10):
the most conservative, not a Maga senator, but an old
mainline conservative, who said, Mike Johnson is absolutely poisoned. He
is a bad guy. We're not going to play this game.
We're not going to be part of the stunt casting.
And in the Senate's internal business, they're growing number of
senators who are like, Okay, we're done with Tommy Tumberville's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Which right now, let's talk about Tommy Tubravel. She was
a coach from Alabama.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He coached at Miami for a while too. I don't
know if you ever heard about Miami back then, but
there are rumors that Tommy enjoyed what was on the
ground at Miami back then, if you take my meaning.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're not going to touch that innuendo, but we are
going to say that he is holding this up because
he does not want military members to be reimbursed for
travel for abortion.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Right, and so he is frozen the pro of hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of members of.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The service for months and months and months.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
We're approaching six or seven months now on it, including
the commandant of the Marine Corps, including the commander of
the third MA Marie Division, including the commanders that would
be taking a part in the current deployment in the
Mediterranean of two aircraft carrier battlegroups in the Mediterranean, and
including a Marine three star general who suffered a heart
attack because he's been working literally twenty hours a day
(07:28):
to do to do job of the commandant and the
job that he's currently assigned to.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And this three star general who had the heart attack
is currently in the hospital. It did serve to make
people like Alaska's Senator Dan Sullivan, and also we saw
a couple of other Republicans come out really hard against Tubervail,
all of them saying that this was really unfair and
(07:53):
he was punishing the military.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, in a crazy way.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Correct, And I will say this as neat as I can.
Tommy Tubberville's agenda here is quite frankly in service only
to a group of people who are in his staff
that I'm sort of getting some terrain on this. Now.
There are a group of people in his staff who
are these young, hyper alt right types who are pushing
(08:18):
this agenda, and the abortion thing is an excuse for them,
not a reason. They want to cause chaos in the
US military. They are Bannonites, they're burn it down type,
and what they're doing is very deliberately ranted towards trying
to break the US chain of command because they have
a belief that the military is just chuck full of
(08:39):
these Marxist Soros activists and they're going to burn it
all down. It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Now here's my question, is it his staffers?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Is this like a die Fi situation where the staff
is running the asylum? Because Tommy Tuberville seems like the
Louis Gohmert of the Senate.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
He seems real dumb.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Tommy Tuberville is easily overcome by inanimate objects. Tommy Turberville
could not operate a coaster of it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, that's my think.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He is the guy who knows how to how to
coach sportball. But that is the limit of Tommy Tuberville's
knowledge experience, and he's been given a set of talking
points to go out and repeat this stuff about abortion tourism. Yeah,
no one is doing abortion tourism, Tommy, dummy. But look,
the people that are the most thrilled by this aren't
even the abortion people. People that are most thrilled by
(09:25):
this are the Chinese and the Iranians and the Russians.
Because he is recapping the American military is leaving our
troops without leadership in the field. This is now to
the point where Tommy Tuberville is a national security threat.
And unfortunately the people of Alabama, even though, by the way, everybody,
he does not live in Alabama. He lives in Florida.
Their joke about him being the third Senator from Florida
(09:48):
is actually real. He does not live in his home state.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
What would be the play here? They're doing a couple
of the appointments, you know, on a voice so too yesterday,
I'm more today, I more this. You know, they're going
to do a bunch. But what's the play here? I mean,
is there a way to go?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I mean, could you change that?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You need sixty votes to change the center rules? I mean,
do you think there are nine Republicans who are willing
to go along with like Tuoburville must be stopped.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Well, from what I've told right now, there are six,
and I don't want to say their names because I
don't think that that helps the fight right now, and
I don't want any to be mobbed. I think there
are six. I think we're very close to adding enough
to get over the line. It is going to be
a big blood bath. I suspect that what's going to
have to happen is it's going to have to happen
(10:37):
while they're in session on the floor in a in
like a quick march order with a very closed kind
of rule, that that's all that it applies to, and
that they're going to bring it in, sweep the place clean,
and blow Tupperville away. But if the names of the
all of them were known ahead of time, Box would
start to drumbeat all that garbage.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I want to go back for Armena and just talk
about the House. The government is funded till November seventeenth.
This Israel aid package is already Schumer said it dies
in the Senate, right, it does in the Senate. Mitch
mcconnald doesn't like it. Biden said he's going to be
to it. So this goes nowhere. So now does Mike
Johnson now spend the next two weeks just hitting his
(11:18):
head against the wall, or do you think he tries
something bipartisan.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Look, Mike is under the same problematic rule that took
out Kevin, and he ends that if he crosses Gates
and the rest of the pro Russia pro Putin.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Coalition, the one person motioned to vakate MATC. Gates will
do it again.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Right, They'll vacate. They'll burn it all down again and
start the clock over. Here's the moment that I think
that Johnson's really going to be tested on. They don't
want a spending bill. As much as they claim they
don't want to do CRS, they also don't want to
do an actual budget because that puts them under the
spotlight and it shows exactly how much each of them is.
You know, I hate spending. And then they asked for Oh,
(11:55):
by the way, I need a bridge in my district.
I need this, I need that, I need this, I
need that. The problem with dedicating yourself to the forces
of chaos is that when the bill comes due, everybody's
looking around like who's going to take out the credit
card first? And the chaos monkeys? They want the restaurant
or to come in and stay. I'm calling the cops.
They want they want the blow up, they want the shit.
The idea of operating the government is anathema to the
(12:18):
radical edge of the Bannonite movement. They want to burn
it down. And so what would they love to do.
They'd love to burn it down, pass no aid for
anybody blame Joe Biden called Joe Biden an anti Semite
because he wouldn't do their specific bill. It's very predictable.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Molly, what's your money on a government shut down before
November of seventeenth.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Three to two odds?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Pretty good out, all right?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I don't think it would last a long time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Because Republicans are going to be blamed for that.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Every time the government shutdown happens, the party in the
majority is blamed for it one hundred percent of the time.
And this particular shut down, and look, we know this
for a fact. Not one of these Republicans who bleme
eats about fiscal conservatism gives a good goddamn about the deficit.
They do not care. When they passed a one point
(13:07):
seven trillion dollar tax bill for Donald Trump. When you
did the analysis of it, it benefited about two hundred
super high net worth individuals and families in this country.
Majority of the benefit went to about two hundred individuals
and families and companies. So they don't really care about it.
But like back in my days as a Republican, when
we talked about fiscal responsibility, I actually thought we meant it.
(13:28):
We didn't. We meant the preservation of tax cuts for
a narrow sector of the economy. As a legitimate conservative,
not a fake like fake orgasm conservative, you know, if
you're going to have fiscal responsibility, it has to be
applied equally to everyone. So right now, the Trump tax
bill has expired. So the tiny trickle that helped the
middle class and the Trump tax bill it ages out.
(13:50):
It's gone. It disappears this year, So next year everybody's
taxes go up except for us super wealthiest. If they're
willing to shut down the government so that those things
can be preserved, that tells you everything about.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Just one last thing. Dessanda's lips. Is this more embarrassing
than Scott Walker's presidential run?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Discuss this makes Scott Walker's presidential run look like Ronald Reagan.
This so embarrassing and look, I wrote a piece about
this on my subset called little Boots. This will forever
be his brand, This will be the thing that he
is forever remembered by. Okay, this is like Ed Musky
crying in front of the press.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Is decaucus than the tank.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Is decaucus in the tank, and it makes decaucus in
the tank look like Churchill on the floor of Parliament
blasting the knos. It is so beyond the valley of
just embarrassing and horrible. And he will never live this down.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
If you are working on this campaign and you had
a candidate who was wearing lifts, would you just never
have led.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Him wear lifts.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I would never have let him wear lifts. There was
some talk during the Bush and Gore race early on
of do you tell w to put on some higher
heeled shoes or whatever. Now w wore cowboy boots organically
as a fucking text.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You can see lived in Texas and he is about I.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Don't know, a Bush, about six foot, I guess. But
Gore was huge, course a big tall guy. And there's
this idea that like Al Gore was gonna be so
tall over him on the stage, and Bush himself was like,
get the fuck out of here, come on, And ironically
this idea that you had to make the stantus like
go from five to seven or five to eight or
five to night whatever the height Hea is to six
foot you know, like I'm five eleven okay, like every
(15:27):
day fucking profile in America and earlier Wilson fly too.
I'm like, I'm an actual five to ten without fancy
high heel shoes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I love that you have to ment and mention this.
We are, by the way, the same height you and I. Well.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Sommer is a reporter at the Washington Post.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Welcome back too Fast Politics, my friend and yours potentially, Will.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Sommer, thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I think of you.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
As the guy who knows what is happening in the
darkest corners of the Internet.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I want to start by.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Talking about a piece you just wrote because the.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Darkest corners of the Internet happened to dovetail with the
Republicans in the House discuss.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
I wrote this piece during sort of the speakership chaos,
before Mike Johnson emerged as the victor, and just sort
of this is the story about how the right wing
media and the world of you know, whether it's Sean
Hannity's show on Fox or Steve Bannon's show, which I
believe is on Real America's Voice.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
You know that, you know, Real America's Voice.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
We all love that one.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Yeah, how they sort of contribute to the chaos because
it gives an outsized amount of power to this this
kind of Matt Gatsey and fringe in that they can
go on Steve Bannon's show and say, this random congressman
from Arkansas is not voting for Jim Jordan the way
we want, so you need to call his office and
pressure him.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, I feel like this is trump is We saw
it like with death threats in twenty seventeen, twenty.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Sixteen, fifty and like, you know, you have to support
our guy.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
We haven't seen like this kind of top down bullying
on like procedural votes before.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
It's really weird.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
I mean watching these shows and they would be it
would be like Patrick McHenry's holding up the vote to
get to the floor tonight and then you see and
you know it is not clear that there's a tie here,
but then all the amount of like threats and death
threats to Republican members of Congress and and their wives
who if they weren't voting for Jim Jordan.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I mean, it's as far as I know.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
I mean, it's unheard of, certainly since the modern era,
that the average sort of grassroots activist would be disinvolved
in whether the vote is going to the floor tonight
or tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Right? Is this a sort of interest in governance? Are
these people more interested in the nuts and bolts of
the federal government? This cannot be.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
No.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that
everyone got the Almanac of American.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Politics Christmas and now they're all fired up.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
No.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
I think it's that the speaker's race, like so many
other things, has been sort of subsumed into the rights
cultural war within itself. And because really, you know, someone
like Steve Scalise is not all that different from someone
like Jim Jordan ideologically, but you know, it's sort of
this attitude, and it's this idea that Jim Jordan was
willing to risk it all in a way that Steve
Scalise was not. And so you have someone like Steve
(18:18):
Bannon who really wants to I think feel that he
had his role in this process. So he riles up
what he calls the war room posse to go, you know,
deluge these congressmen with calls, and ultimately that's I did
succeed because they got this really far right wing guy
and Mike Johnson to be the speaker.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, so Mike Johnson looks like Paul Ryan, but he
acts like Sydney Powell. And this is my takeaway. But
I feel like you've looked at him from a different angle.
So I'm going to tell you my hot take and
then you're gonna.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Tell me why I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Or perhaps I'm right, but I might get more out
of being wrong. This is a guy who was a
religious zealot Christian extremist, then in twenty twenty saw an
opportunity by writing this Amakus Brief to get involved or
trying to overturn the election for our man, not mine,
(19:11):
but his man, Donald Trump. Then has become a sort
of right wing media fever pitch.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Kind of guy. Is that what this is? Or is that?
Am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
No, I mean I think that's more or less like
you're right on. This is a guy who was basically
a backbencher. Very few people were aware of this guy
who comes from a real like Christian nationalist background, a
lot of anti gay stuff in his past, a lot
of just this idea that you know, America is like
a very affirmatively Christian nation, that that is sort of
key to what it is to be American. And then
he emerges from you know, relative obscurity in twenty twenty
(19:48):
he sort of came up with what was sort of
the thinking man's election denial, right, And so, you know,
on one hand, you have someone like Sidney Powell or
Mike Lindell who's ranting and raving and saying, you know,
a supercomputer stole the election, or dominion did it. And
I believe Mike Johnson got a little bit of the
dominion stuff. But his idea was, well, what if we
say the election has to be overturned because certain states
(20:11):
changed their election laws in ways we don't like to allow,
you know, more male and voting perhaps or early voting.
People might notice this when Republican members of Congress who
are not like really on the fringe of the fringe,
when they're asked, do you think the election was stolen?
They'll say, well, I think there were a lot of
like weird voting law changes, and it's like, well, that's
not what anyone means by the election was stolen.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yeah, the laws changed, and.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
You didn't like it.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
You know, we're talking about like mail trucks full of
fake ballots rolling up and stuff like that. But in
this case, so yes, he sort of came up with
the polite version of trying to steal the election.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It is interesting because the election thing, the fac the
fake electors lying about the election, which has become the
Republican party line, and that really was something that was
dreamed up in the sort of fever swamp that you.
Sorry to tell you, I still consider you to be
(21:02):
a person who lives in I do.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I love it, Molly, I have a high tolerance for it.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Are you surprised at how well that lie took and
how much it sort of growned the mainstream or did
you sort of expect this?
Speaker 6 (21:14):
I mean, honestly, yeah, I mean, even as someone who
has really been up at sort of the right of
the face of all this action, I mean every step
of the way, I've been surprised with how the Republican
Party has really allowed these conspiracy theories, including election denial.
It's really fester. I mean I remember on election night
when Trump got up and said, well, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Lose and they stolen.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
I thought, oh geez, it's something that you could have
seen coming, but still felt like a real crossing the
rubicon moment. And then at each step as the GOP
really welcomed that in and now it's really you know,
the mainstream line. I mean, taking it back to Mike Johnson,
we saw that after his at the press conference where
he was asked, you know, after he was selected as
their nominee, after he was asked, do you still think
the election was stolen? I mean it's something they don't
(21:52):
really want to address because they know the base thinks
the election was stolen and Trump does. But they realized
that the average person thinks that's crazy. And so when
the reporter that, then everyone goes so shut up. You know, hey,
you know what a rude thing to bring up.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, that was incredible, I have to say, because it
did feel like they have a problem, right, They have
this problem which is the thing that the base loves,
alienates and my instream voter.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Yeah exactly, And I mean that's something that you see
over and over is that I certainly saw on the
speaker's race, was this idea that the person the base
wants who is just this like like someone like Jim Jordan,
who's you know, most famous for just like owning liberals
in his viral videos and hearings. That's not going to
appeal to the average voter, but you know, they're kind
of locked in this thing. I mean, it's the same
(22:37):
thing we're seeing with Trump and and honestly, I think
the genius of getting Mike Johnson is that he's a
guy very few people even in the Republican Party knew about,
and that he has a very bland name, and so
I mean I think that it is sort of a
name that goes in and out of your head, and
so it makes it hard for people to think, you know,
a name like McCarthy's, scalies, even Jim Jordan is a
(22:57):
name that I think sticks with people more so it's
like a bit more of an enigma to the average voter.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, it's funny because it's like I think about, you know,
just strategically, if I were a Democratic dread just which
I'm very much not, I would be nervous about Republicans
picking someone like a Tom Emer.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Or even as Steve Scalise.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's very right wing, but like sort of affable and
likable and not too crazy. Even though in my heart
of hearts, I want them to pick someone like that
so government can work. It seems like it would help
them more in this election season to pick someone normal
who you could have out there on the step, seeming
like Republicans hadn't lost their goddamn minds. But they absolutely
(23:39):
did not have any interest in that person.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
No, no, exactly.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I mean, like I said, I mean when I looked
at sites like the Gateway Pundit or when I watched
t Bannon show, I mean, there is a sense that,
you know, and this is how sort of the GOP's
activist fringe has managed to drive the party, you know,
at least since the Tea Party movement, is that they
just want it more and they're more intense, and you know,
the moderates end up as they did, you know, I mean,
this was this idea that with Jim Jordan and the
(24:03):
moderates were so concerned.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Because they didn't want an election, deny or and all
this stuff.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
And then you get Mike Johnson, who's one of the
architects of trying to steal the electure.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
They go, okay, so let's talk for.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
A minute about what happens on Steve Bannon's show. A
little bit obsessed with Steve Bannon Show because it is
I mean, I want you to explain to us, like
how many people watch it and why it seems to
be setting the agenda on some And again, I don't
want to say anything nice about Steve Bannon here, except
(24:33):
I'm going to say one nice thing about Steve Bannon,
which is he's very smart. A lot of these people
are very stupid and who sort of fall into this
like a Sean Hannity, But this guy is actually quite smart,
which is why he's so dangerous discussed.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Yeah, I mean, like, look, this is a guy who
certainly loves to participate in his own self mythologizing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
But you know, he is a very active player. I
mean he's in DC.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
I think his studio is in Capitol Hill, so it's
very close by for members of Congress like Gates who
want to swing by. And I mean he was very
engaged during the Speaker's race and saying, you know, telling
the you know it's called war rooms.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
You know, he has members of Congress.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
He has sort of a rotating cast of sort of
like Trump administration leftovers who come on and are sort of,
you know, hawking their own things. One thing I think
is interesting about Bannon is he's a guy who's willing
to try to sort of make new issues on the right.
Like he was a big activist against transhumanism, so the
idea that you know, we're going to merge with robots,
and so he's been really like pushing that and it
(25:29):
may not still be the case, but on his website,
the big issues, it was used to say, election, pandemic,
and transhumanism.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
He's really sort of a pioneer in these ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right, Matt Gates has emerged as the reason why Kevin
McCarthy is not the Speaker of the House anymore. What
do you think a Matt Gates' endgame is and why
do you think Matt Gates would so set on removing mcarthy.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
It is interesting, I mean, you know, perhaps his endgame.
I mean there's talk that he wants to run for
a governor of Florida. He does seem to love getting
attention and power, like many politicians, I guess, I mean,
we all remember that, you know, he grew up in
the Truman show House where The Truman Show was filmed,
and so he's.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
A quirky guy. I guess what I try to say.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
But you know, I think there was like some personal
enmity in the fact that he just sort of wanted
a head because, as you said, I mean, it doesn't
really make a ton of sense to get rid of
Kevin McCarthy and then throw the GOP into chaos for
a month. But at the same time, he was also
you know, reportedly very mad that McCarthy had allowed this
ethics investigation into him, and so that he you know,
he wanted to take him out for that.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
It is just incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
There seems to be like a schism between Marjorie Taylor
Green and Lauren Bopert.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Oh yeah, well this is a very intense schism.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, how did this happen?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (26:44):
So, I mean, you know, you hate to see two
QAnon believers by.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It, just hate to see it.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Well, yeah, I mean you have.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Two women with sort of like outsize personalized as well.
I think this dates back to when McCarthy was first
getting elected as speaker, and I think Marjorie Taylor Green
seems to have figured, well, there's an advantage for me
in cutting a deal with McCarthy and being one of
his lieutenants rather than fighting him in something that he's.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Eventually going to win.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
And Bobert chose the opposite side, teamed up with Matt Gates,
and then throughout we then see I believe my colleague,
my former colleague Zact Beatrizza at the Daily Beast had
some reporting. I mean, this got to the point that
they had an argument in the women's room one of
the restrooms at the Capitol where they were kind of,
you know, really getting intense with each other. And so,
I mean, this is like a very legit and ongoing feud,
and I believe there were some tweets about it. I mean,
(27:30):
so it is interesting because you know, from the outside,
they you would think of them as very similar politically
and temperamentally. But I think Marjorie Taylor Green has proved
herself to be sort of a more adept political player
because we think about Lauren Bobert, she's kind of playing
second fiddle to Matt Gates and that whole crew. She's
kind of part of this crew that includes like Paul
Gosar and Louis Gohmer and all these characters. Martor Taylor
(27:52):
Green's kind of on her own path. And also, you know,
Marjorie Taylor Green does not have a video of herself
getting a little wild at beetlejuice, right, And so I
think that show some more wisdom as well, by the way.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
A terrifying conversation that chows more wisdom.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But I do know what you're saying. I mean, it
does seem likely that Lauren Bobert is going to lose
her seat.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Yeah, she barely got it last year twenty twenty two,
and she really only has added on more and more
scandal since then.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And so I mean, we'll have to see. I mean,
it's not looking great, I would.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Say, in the house.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Besides those two, you have this new speaker. Then you
have sort of the kind of ken Buck v. The
crazies talk about that dynamic because it seems like ken
Buck is the Mitt Romney of the House.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
I mean you have the situation where you have Ken
Buck and a few other members of Congress or Republicans
who just seem to be really fed up with it,
and you know, and like Mitt Romney Now ken Buck
says he won't run for reelection, right, and so I
think like Romney Buck appears to have realized, you know, geez,
like the crazies really are in control of this party
and it's not going to be fixed anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
As just calling it quits.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, it seems like there's a Maga crew in the
Senate that is Ted Cruz, jd Vance and sort of
are you seeing that and what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Sure, I mean jd Vance, Josh Hawley, Right, I mean
in the case of Jady Vance, certainly he's sort of
the hero of what a lot of young Republican activists
call the new Right, which is to say, sort of
a proto fascist right, and that it is very focused on.
If you think about the difference between them and maybe
you know you're more traditional hard right Republican, is that
(29:29):
they feel, the young folks and jd Vance feel that
the previous set was did not crush their enemies enough.
And so that's why they love or loved Ron DeSantis
because they saw him as someone who, you know, I'm
gonna you know, strip Disney World down plank by plank
and stuff like that. But then you know, we've already
seen a lot of that movement implode, at least in
this collection cycle. I mean, Ron DeSantis did awfully. Nate Hawkman,
(29:51):
who is this young hero of the New Right, he
joined the DeSantis campaign and then got fired for making
the video with the Nazi symbolism.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Because Nazi symbolism is not funny, and none of this
is funny, but it is also just so stupid.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
It's amazing, it's.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So crazy, like why would you yeah, you know, let's
just put I mean, it's how Internet addled these guys are,
and how within their own universe they are that they're like, well,
why don't we just slip this Son and rad In
and we're gonna have kind of these liked Santi's stormtroopers marching.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Thought'll be fine. I don't think anyone will mind that.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
And so that is sort of the movement that Jade
Vance has seen as this hero of that. These are
the people who call for an American Caesar, right, because
you can't if you say an American Hitler or American Mussolini,
people won't like that. But you can say, oh, I
like Caesarism, right, Yeah, Caesarism that's great.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I have sort of one last question for you, which
is the people who went on DeSantis World, because there
was a sort of schism, right people, A lot of
Trump people, not a lot, but some Trump people went
off to Santas World.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Can they come back to Trump World or is it
over for them?
Speaker 6 (31:03):
I think it depends. I think it depends how aggressive
some of them were. I mean, you have people like
the guys on Twitter, like John Cardillo, dave Reeboy, these
kind of like bald musclemen, middle aged types in Florida,
these guys who just really like jousted with the sort
of the the Maga die hards that your Laura Lumer types.
You're like, these these people who I mean, they will
(31:25):
die for Trump. And that's what Dessanta's doesn't have, is
that he doesn't have these people who are willing to
just look like absolute buffoons for him. And so for
those guys, I think it's I mean, I don't think
they're coming back to Trump Land. I think they have
to become never Trump guys, but not in like a
Lincoln project way, like like I don't know if there's
going to be the Dassanta's Project afterwards for those guys
so that they could like find a living because really
(31:48):
they're stuck. And so The New York Times had a
story recently about the Dssanta's efforts to sort of take
over the MAGA social media universe and just how badly
they imploded in this idea. I mean, you see the
tweets wear I can't remember exactly what. Just recently they
were like it's been X number days since Donald Trump
had a flub.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
This is the new flub counter and it's like, oh, brother.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
You know, it reminds you of when Christy was like
I call him Donald Duck and it's like, you know,
there were so many meetings about it, and it just dies.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
I call him Donald Duck. Will sommer, always a delight.
We'll never call you Donald Duck.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
That means a lot, Molly, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Josh is the editor of the Endermentum newsletter. Welcome to
Fast Politics et Indermentum. Whose real name is Josh, and
we're interviewing you today. I'm a subscriber and a fan.
I wanted to talk to you. You've been really chronicling
this incredible Republican Is it a primary?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
It feels like it's not even a primary.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
No, not really. I haven't read it about it since.
Like I think August I wrote like a series on
DeSantis and I kind of officially said his bid was dead.
When I started, I titled it The Art of Losing,
and it was that was like back in June, and
by the time, like I wrote, like, I was like
a couple months into it, I was already like, this
is kind of over a pound of sick of this.
But I finished that I gave kind of like my
(33:22):
opinion on him of that series. But I haven't red
I don't think I've read about the primary since then.
I think it's kind of settled. The Trump has wanted.
It's pretty embarrassing there's they're still going through with it.
But like I have that series and I did on it,
but everything else is kind of just looking Republicans more
generally after that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.
But I was talking to a friend of mine who's
a journalist, and he was saying straight news journalist, and
he was saying he has to go to Miami for
the debate, and I was like, oh my god, they
are still having Republican debate.
Speaker 7 (33:50):
Yeah, I saw like DeSantis responding to like some news
stuff the other day, and it's like, I forgot he's
still alive.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, it's really weird by the way he just fell
down that Scott Walker Hale right where it's just if
you're a completely uncharismatic person, you should not run for president.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I think that's part of it. I'm still thinking now,
like how.
Speaker 7 (34:10):
To write a porst mortem for that campaign. If he
could have done anything differently that it could have had
a different result, because he was pulling very well in
the winter earlier this year, but that obviously completely fell apart.
And it's strange looking back, like why that was even
the case back then, what people kind of saw from
him and what they expected him to be. I think
if he wanted to have a chance of like putting
(34:31):
in a decent showing he had to be a lot
more anti Trump than he actually was. He really tried
to appeal to everybody, ended up just alienating everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
This is like the fundamental problem that a lot of
these Republicans had. It's like the primary numbers were like
Trump and everybody else. So if you were going to
be a never Trump candidate, right, you could be a
never Trump, not the way Mitt Romney is never Trump,
but the way Ken Buck is never Trump. Right, they're similar,
but you're going to in it. In twenty twenty, twenty nineteen,
(35:04):
Democrats basically.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Cleared the field.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
They were like, Joe Biden may not be my first choice,
but he is a candidate.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
That reads like a white guy who can win.
Speaker 7 (35:16):
Yeah, he had the best numbers. I was a Bernie
supporter back then, but like even then, I was kind
of like looking at the polling there as like making
a calculated risk because like Bernie and Biden always pulled
the best versus Trump. It was like they always led
by seven or eight points and Biden led by it
like a quite higher than him. So like for my
personal calculation, like, oh, I think that Bernie like will
be better president than him, So I'm willing to take
(35:38):
that risk of one or two percent because they're leading
by so much. But like I wasn't under any illusions
that Biden was the most wasn't the most electable at
the time, Like the calculation that that was the main
thing that Prayorg has, Like it made sense, like from
some perspectives.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
He seemed the most electable to you.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
He was probably.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, it's funny because it's like, I mean, I just
was like, as a Jew, I was like, we're never
going to have.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
A two president.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
No, it's so sad.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It was like, I like Bernie a lot, but like
the idea that we would have someone who literally looks
like one of my relatives as president, like seemed impossible.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
It was so cool.
Speaker 7 (36:11):
He felt like like he had the accent of everything.
He kind of had the attitude.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
Yeah. No, I mean he's like Larry David. So the
calculus was like, this is the guy. He may not
be your first choice, but he can win.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I mean, why couldn't Republicans do that with a nicky
Haley or someone I mean, I'm not saying the.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
Satus would have made the most sense to do that.
Disantus actually had an incredible twenty twenty two. I really like,
if people don't recognize me or know my stuff, really
my I first got attention because I was one of
the people who said that there was not going to
be a red wave in twenty twenty two. I said
that Democrats want a lot stronger position. It wasn't like
the toughest call to make. There were a lot of
(36:49):
like side twenty that way, but it was surprisingly uncommon
for people to say that, So I was very vocal
in that and that got me some attention, which is kind.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Of where I am now.
Speaker 7 (36:58):
And I was very down on how all the looking
performed everywhere, but the satists did undeniablely well. Like running
by twenty points in Florida is impressive. He won like
Miami and Palm Beach County. That's like not like nothing,
that's really those are good numbers, and none of the
other candidates in the race really have that kind of record,
but they all kind of ran anyway. I think it
(37:20):
was a mix of like they genuinely saw this as
like one of their last chances of new too, something
they always planned to and just went threw it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Out of muscle memory.
Speaker 7 (37:28):
Are there just trying to get a position in Trump's cabinet,
which I think is the case for some of them.
I think definitely for vec although things have looked a
little dicier for him than they did like a couple
months ago, so he had to do the Santis had.
First off, if he was a good politician, he would
have been able to clear the field like that. It
would that's just a prerequisite, like you need to get
people out of the race to promise them whatever you
(37:50):
show them the reality. He's just not like good at
that nuts and bald stuff. He never really has been
if you look at like my series on him.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
He wasn't connecting with the like back ben chief Florida
Congress people had he wanted to work that he could have,
you know, had people at the governor's mansion.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
I mean there just was. He was not good at
the vote whipping part of politics.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
Yeah, nuts and bald stuff, not like not even ideological,
just like basic competency things. The one story that always
sticks with me is when he flew up the DC
to meet with a bunch of these Republicans and representatives
from Florida because he was kind of having a cold
war of endorsements with Trump that he lost very decisively,
but this was in the early stages of that, and
he met with these like congressmen in this hotel for
(38:37):
several hours, and those people came out and they said,
we endorsed Trump. So we actively did like made them
go away from him from spending that effort. And it's
something you can see just across his entire career. The
more people see of him, the less they like him,
except in Florida. I guess they're just weird.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Some of what happened in Florida is that the Democratic
Party fell off a cliff and they ran a guy
who was probably a uniquely bad candidate. Right he had
been a Republican.
Speaker 7 (39:05):
Yeah, Christ was pretty poor. Both the lives, they ran
pretty poor candidates. Gillum in twenty eighteen got a lot
of attention, but looking back on it, he was actually
under like FBI investigation during the campaign, which might not
have been ideal, and he's still only narrowly lost. Christ
was just very, very Poortus, like most incumbent governers across
the country were popular. Desantus wasn't unique by any means
(39:28):
of having a strong year last year. I think Whitmer
actually had better numbers than him relative to how the
country was leading. Yeah, but nobody really ever talks about
that because of the media is sexist and they hate Whitmer.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I want to talk about that for a minute, because
this is like a peccadillo of mine. Obviously daughter of
a second wave feminists, Like this is something I think
about a lot. Why is it that women politicians here's Whitmer.
She reads, and again, I'm going to say something that
people are not going to like, but I think it's right.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
She reads in the least feminine way.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
She plays up her sort of ability to seem like
a quote unquote normal politician, if that makes sense.
Speaker 7 (40:09):
Yeah, like her fixed the damn roads, the kind of
a very kind of.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Masculine energy, very careful, almost was the victim of an
enormously scary violent crime, very fucking tough, tough, tough, tough,
and still really gets all of the sexism.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
Yeah, people just generally don't take that seriously. But also
because she didn't know when to shift gears when it
benefited her. When Dobbs came out, she was really the
one politician in the country who did the most to
engineer that to her benefit. She campaigned relentlessly on abortion.
She defined her opponent as zone anti abortion extreamist. She
was like spearheading effort to get an abortion referendum on
(40:49):
the ballot at the same time as her So she
wasn't like afraid to run away from that issue. She
saw it as successful and she really did it like
more better than anybody else in the country. I think
across the entire state Michigan shifted blue compared to twenty twenty.
It wasn't just her. She carried everybody across the line
and obviously got her trifecta from it. So it was
a uniquely like just well managed state party campaign there
(41:13):
that I think got kind of overlooked because people just said, oh,
generally democrats did well, some Democrats did well, some did
better than others, and she was definitely in the higher
end of that.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
It sounds like it was the opposite of New York State.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, exactly, give me the TLDR on twenty twenty eight.
I'm sorry, I don't get nobody get mad at me,
but who do you see as strong? I read a
piece in one of those political magazines that was like,
she's twenty twenty eight. Did you see that candidates are
buying in case they can manage to get Who do
(41:48):
you like for twenty twenty eight? Oh?
Speaker 7 (41:50):
Well, I wrote, like, I'm a list of this actually
most few one. I don't want to go through everything,
but I have on Whitmer as the highest there by far.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I think she's kind of.
Speaker 7 (41:59):
In a cheer of her own. If you're like a
left winger, she's not really anything totally new from what
you've seen Democrats before. She's very much a mainstream liberal.
But like really any analysis of her like kind of
my take on it is that she's a liberal who
can definitively win, like in terms of a lifetidentity. Nobody
really has her track record. She has a history of
using the power that she got through her savvy electoral
(42:23):
sort of approach for like very positive legislative gains in
a very tough legislative environment. She has one seed majorities
in both of the state houses there and has been
able to repeal Right to Work I think, codify Obamacare.
I think she did that two days ago, codifi Roe v. Wade,
and Michigan just like a very tremendously productive year they've
(42:44):
had there. So I don't think really anybody else has
the combination of executive experience and demonstrated political competency that
she has. Warnock, I think as a Georgian I've always
been a fan of him. I'm still surprised that he's one,
not like two, but basically four elections for Warnock. Yeah,
he's had to work so hard. I saw him like
(43:04):
at a rally one time, he looked so tired. I
told him he was going to win so and I
was right. So that was a fun little moment.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
He has really had to work it though.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Let me ask you, when you look at this sort
of speakership battle, were you surprised?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I mean, I feel like they just had a moment
where they like, we can't embarrass ourselves anymore.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
We just have to pick whoever it is.
Speaker 7 (43:26):
Yeah, that was my most recent article. But US politics,
I call it just good old fashioned political failure. That
wasn't everybody wants to chalk it up like, oh, Washington's dysfunctional,
Washington can get anything done. That was beyond that and
all of these instances. You just have these kind of
cases of Republicans being really like just stupid beyond like
an ideological level. The conclusion I kind of came to
(43:49):
when I was writing about this and like finishing that
piece was we're used to Republicans being evil or bad,
like pushing evil and bad policies, and we can still
fear them because evil and bad people can be very
competent and savvy, right, But this new Republican Party isn't
like they're not just bad, but they're also dumb. So
it's not just their policies are bad. Their policies are
(44:11):
just stupid, and you believe in enough stupid policies, eventually
you just become stupid yourself, and you get to a
point where you're like Jim Jordan and you're like having
your supporter send death threats to the people who won't
vote for you and blaming them for that, embarrassing yourself
on a national stage. Are you Steve Scalise and you're
at the apex of your career you can't even articulate
(44:31):
why you should be speaker? Are Tom Emmer and God
just hates you and you have to drop out after
four hours. It's not even like that they just believe
in bad things that they're not popular. They're just personally
stupid to the point where they can't even selfishly seek
power the way that they used to be able to.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
We keep finding them sort of unable to deliver for
them besides their voters, for themselves.
Speaker 7 (44:54):
Yeah, that's the difference, because it used to be that
these guys could personally benefit from being in power. Now
they just can't really accomplish anything.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, this is like the thing I think about a
lot is here we are. We have this guy. He
doesn't know how to do the speaker job at all.
He's hired two people from Fox News to be in
his team, right, he didn't hire like.
Speaker 7 (45:15):
He's a total hicic dumb ass. I can say this
is a Southerner. He just like is really just one
of those stupid people that you see you are involved
in right wing politics?
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Were this me?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And I woke up one day and was like, holy shit,
I'm the Speaker of the House.
Speaker 5 (45:28):
I'm completely unprepared for this job.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
I have no idea who anyone is. I cannot whip votes.
Nobody knows who I am. I just met miss McConnell.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
This is like America's worst anxiety dream.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Wouldn't you just hire all of the smart people who
worked for McCarthy, who is also a moron? Like, wouldn't
you yeah, instead of pulling out people from Fox News.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
I mean, what's the thinking here?
Speaker 7 (45:51):
I think the one thing with Mike Johnson that makes
them particularly important here is that he genuinely believes in
like God and thinks that like he's fulfilling some kind
of large like he's a younger creationist. He thinks that
the earth is six thousand years old. He genuinely believes
in this stuff and what he wanted. He probably thought like, well,
that's probably just because God is rewarding me for all
the other stuff that I did before. So I imagine
(46:12):
he has a tremendous level of confidence where he thinks
he's being divinely rewarded for being a massive homophob for
his entire life. And he's just thinking like, well, this
is going well, why don't I just continue with what
I'm doing. The thing is, what he was doing before
was at a really low level, and when you're at
this higher stage, you have to be very tactful in
what you say and very like measured and strategic. So
(46:33):
he's just going out there and singing like, oh yeah,
Joe Biden, this guy who I'm gonna have to work
with for the next year. I think he's seen Aisle.
He's just gonna personally insult him.
Speaker 5 (46:41):
Not brilliant.
Speaker 7 (46:42):
Yeah, I'll pass the israel A that everybody sports. If
you let us take money away from the irs so
rich people cannot pay taxes, and then that gets revealed
to cost more money than it'll save. It's just like
a baseline level of incompetence there that makes you really
realize why this guy was like a last its choice.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, I think that's right. You think he's able to
stick around just the Israel AID stuff.
Speaker 5 (47:06):
I think there are.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
People in the Senate who believe they can put together
a package and then bring it back to the House
and get the bipartisan vote. I mean, are Republicans willing
to die on this? Hell they love Israel?
Speaker 7 (47:16):
Yeah, I don't think so. The question will be I
think if it's going to be a combined Ukraine Israel
package or if they're going to be split. And the
Ukraine stuff is obviously like a lot more contentious in
terms of passing than the Israel stuff is. The offsetting
it is completely dead on arrival. It's politically unpopular. That's
just a complete stunt and looks embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
Yeah, so that's dead on arrival. So what was the
point of doing that?
Speaker 7 (47:42):
He's just not It's like what I said, like these
guys believe in dumb stuff, and at a certain point
they just are kind of dumb themselves, like they live
in an echoed chamber. They think that everybody thinks the
way that they do, and they misinterpreted the reason why
they wanted the past, and they think that just doing
far right stunts is like going to get people interested.
When Jim Jordan said, according to Politico that like he
(48:03):
was trying to threaten least and he said America wants me,
I think he sincerely thinks that America does want him, because,
like you think, these guys are looking at like what
normal people think. They're just looking at like their supporters.
They have a bunch of yes men around them. They're
kind of atrophying into a party that would be one
that you'd expect to be organized around Trump, which is
just not very confident.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Thank you, no moment, Wilson.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yes, I'm here for all your fuckery needs.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Do you have a moment of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
You know, I have a moment of fuckery from Thursday
watching Eric fail Son, absolutely the best bed for the
Trump family, absolutely losed his mind and blow it on
the stand. You had to know that in Donald Trump's head,
like everything was validated at that moment about how shittingly
he treats Eric, because Eric literally not have made a
(49:01):
dumber set of statements in the course of that appearance.
Although the secondary moment of fuckery that's coming is Avoka
has to testify, He's gonna struggle with a set of
feelings of betrayal, hatred, and arousal all at once.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I have to say that the Evanka, she gets my
moment of rockery because she said she couldn't testify during
the school week.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I have three children. They do go to school. But
she moved to Miami is not very far from New York.
That's like a two hour flight.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
You could theoretically, and you know, I don't know if
you know this, but her father has a lot of
real estate in New York. She could fly on his
plane and be back for dinner the next night.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
I would be remis if I failed to mention that
Evanka has an army of Nanny Cook's gardeners, drivers, health servants, ladies' maids,
under butlers, butlers, the entire Downton abbey f constellation of
household staff. And give me a break.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
We think that Ivanka does not need to take the
school week from testifying.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Right, Yeah, And if you think of Vodka is sitting
at home with a little Kushner Sprague saying okay, honey,
have you finished all your homework? No? They have some
sort of staff or in house to deal with that.
I for you. So that is our moment of cook right,
A glorious, glittering moment of trumpy and fuckery.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Thank you, Rex, thank you, thank you. That's it for
this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
And again, thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and we are now one year out
from the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have such a great show for you today.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
The Washington Post Will Somer joins us to talk about
the madness sweeping through the Republican Party. Then we'll talk
to Josh from the et Injermentum newsletter about Trump and
Desanta's escalating jobs at one another. But first we have
the host of the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project z
owned Rick Wilson. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Rick Wilson.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Mollie Jong Fast. I'm delighted to be with you as always,
I mean today from beautiful Savannah, Georgia, for my son's
wedding week.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
This is a very remote little bit of interview. The
two of us are both in weird places. You're in Savannah,
Georgia for your son's wedding, which is the dream of
every parent.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Thank God.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, he means you've done it.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
After the children being wed, it is done. They are
awfully launched. They all have careers and and now I
await but the army of little Extra Wilson's to emerge
into the world.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yes, and Rip Wilson ready to be a grandfather.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
And I am in my mother's apartment cleaning it out.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Very heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So, speaking of heartbreaking, I want to ask you a question.
I've been acting my friends on the Hill all morning. Yeah,
Mike Johnson, Maggie, Mike Johnson. Is he very very stupid?
Or is he playing three dimensional chess? Or is he
eating the pieces? Discuss I have a belief.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
That Mike Johnson is like the species of creature that
I discussed periodically called dumb smart guys. He is like
Tad Cruz. He is narrowly intelligent about a certain set
of things that he is very driven by religion. In
his case, it is his cult like dedication to a
small of evangelic anity, which I mean, look, I don't
(02:03):
speak for Jesus, of.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Course, yeah, I do get to be at.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Variance with some Well, he's one of the brethren. I
suspect that the narrow, pinched, fanatic, bizarro world version of
Christianity that Mike Johnson seems to represent is more interested
in telling those biddies to get back in the kitchen
and take those shoes off and have more babies than
the compassion of our Lord and Savior, if you take
(02:29):
my meanings.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
But is he playing three dimensional chess when it comes
to he passed so bipartisan sport for this Israel aid package.
So instead of just passing the aid package the way
one would normally do it, he decides he's going to
add quote unquote pay for with the irs. Of course
these offsets offset nothing.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
But what is going on?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
He offsets the costs of the fourteen billion costs by
cutting the.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
IRS, which adds the depicit.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Right, that cut will lead to a twenty three billion
dollar loss a tax collection from the wealthiest taxpayer. I
don't think it's three dimensional chess. I think it's actually
a pretty shallow kind of feed the maga bass play,
because you know, the first thing out there is this
chunk of red meat of cutting the IRS. Now, look,
I guess I missed the ball here on how it
is that you allow the hyper wealthiest tax cheats.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
It's their donor base.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I missed how that was part of the freedom agenda.
They already are paying a significantly lower tax rate. You
and I are not exactly like your basic bitch ten
forty filers. We're not like in that category where.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
We can do our taxes on the back of a postcard.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
By the way, that was the one thing Trump ever
said where I was like, now this this I could
get interested in.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And by the way, there was never any follow up
on that.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Right, But here's the thing, the idea that he's going
to cut the irs. These are the specific programs thereafter
are for these tax scoff laws and tax sheets at
a very high level. And these we're talking about people
who owe tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Of taxes to people like Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
And I was just going to say, there are certain
people you might you might know them as America's favorite
first family of failed sons.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
I mean, these people deserve like a nineteen sixties TV show.
They really do, like My Three Spawn or something. There's awful.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Well, the problem is, like, you can't do a TV
show with no likable characters.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
They'll be like, who should we root for in this?
And you're like, the American people, not really.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
The meteors strike all of them.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yes, but we mean that in a completely theoretical sense
and a spiritual sense, and not.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean actual medior plunging.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now you don't anyway moving on to things they cannot
get us.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So where does this go? Right now?
Speaker 1 (04:55):
The setup is a MAGA might need Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell,
I don't think you want to go against Mitchell O'Connell.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Listen, Mitch has lost a step or three. Mitch's old,
tired and not doing well. But let me tell you, Washington,
DC is littered with the bodies of the young and
the song who thought they would take on Mitch McConnell.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
And went yeah, Paul Ryan, I mean that whole crew
has gone.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The young guns, no more guns, no more young. They're out.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
They're now disarmed and elderly and in exile. I think
there's a real argument to be made here that McConnell,
as much as people find him uncomfortable, or they find
their ideological priors are completely different, or they blame him
for any number of things, if you look at Washington
right now, there is a moment where Mitch McConnell and
(05:44):
Chuck Schumer could actually form a ad hoc temporary.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
De facto alliance.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah alliance, And honestly, I think from what I've seen
even among Republicans in the last in the Senate. In
the last couple of weeks, the normy's in the Senate,
and it's a smaller number than it was, but there's
still a plurality of the caucus. Right they're about done
with the bullshit about they don't like Mike Johnson. In fact,
I heard from a chief of staff from one of
(06:10):
the most conservative, not a Maga senator, but an old
mainline conservative, who said, Mike Johnson is absolutely poisoned. He
is a bad guy. We're not going to play this game.
We're not going to be part of the stunt casting.
And in the Senate's internal business, they're growing number of
senators who are like, Okay, we're done with Tommy Tumberville's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Which right now, let's talk about Tommy Tubravel. She was
a coach from Alabama.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
He coached at Miami for a while too. I don't
know if you ever heard about Miami back then, but
there are rumors that Tommy enjoyed what was on the
ground at Miami back then, if you take my meaning.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
We're not going to touch that innuendo, but we are
going to say that he is holding this up because
he does not want military members to be reimbursed for
travel for abortion.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Right, and so he is frozen the pro of hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of members of.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The service for months and months and months.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
We're approaching six or seven months now on it, including
the commandant of the Marine Corps, including the commander of
the third MA Marie Division, including the commanders that would
be taking a part in the current deployment in the
Mediterranean of two aircraft carrier battlegroups in the Mediterranean, and
including a Marine three star general who suffered a heart
attack because he's been working literally twenty hours a day
(07:28):
to do to do job of the commandant and the
job that he's currently assigned to.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
And this three star general who had the heart attack
is currently in the hospital. It did serve to make
people like Alaska's Senator Dan Sullivan, and also we saw
a couple of other Republicans come out really hard against Tubervail,
all of them saying that this was really unfair and
(07:53):
he was punishing the military.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, in a crazy way.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Correct, And I will say this as neat as I can.
Tommy Tubberville's agenda here is quite frankly in service only
to a group of people who are in his staff
that I'm sort of getting some terrain on this. Now.
There are a group of people in his staff who
are these young, hyper alt right types who are pushing
(08:18):
this agenda, and the abortion thing is an excuse for them,
not a reason. They want to cause chaos in the
US military. They are Bannonites, they're burn it down type,
and what they're doing is very deliberately ranted towards trying
to break the US chain of command because they have
a belief that the military is just chuck full of
(08:39):
these Marxist Soros activists and they're going to burn it
all down. It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Now here's my question, is it his staffers?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Is this like a die Fi situation where the staff
is running the asylum? Because Tommy Tuberville seems like the
Louis Gohmert of the Senate.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
He seems real dumb.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Tommy Tuberville is easily overcome by inanimate objects. Tommy Turberville
could not operate a coaster of it.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, that's my think.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
He is the guy who knows how to how to
coach sportball. But that is the limit of Tommy Tuberville's
knowledge experience, and he's been given a set of talking
points to go out and repeat this stuff about abortion tourism. Yeah,
no one is doing abortion tourism, Tommy, dummy. But look,
the people that are the most thrilled by this aren't
even the abortion people. People that are most thrilled by
(09:25):
this are the Chinese and the Iranians and the Russians.
Because he is recapping the American military is leaving our
troops without leadership in the field. This is now to
the point where Tommy Tuberville is a national security threat.
And unfortunately the people of Alabama, even though, by the way, everybody,
he does not live in Alabama. He lives in Florida.
Their joke about him being the third Senator from Florida
(09:48):
is actually real. He does not live in his home state.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
What would be the play here? They're doing a couple
of the appointments, you know, on a voice so too yesterday,
I'm more today, I more this. You know, they're going
to do a bunch. But what's the play here? I mean,
is there a way to go?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I mean, could you change that?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You need sixty votes to change the center rules? I mean,
do you think there are nine Republicans who are willing
to go along with like Tuoburville must be stopped.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Well, from what I've told right now, there are six,
and I don't want to say their names because I
don't think that that helps the fight right now, and
I don't want any to be mobbed. I think there
are six. I think we're very close to adding enough
to get over the line. It is going to be
a big blood bath. I suspect that what's going to
have to happen is it's going to have to happen
(10:37):
while they're in session on the floor in a in
like a quick march order with a very closed kind
of rule, that that's all that it applies to, and
that they're going to bring it in, sweep the place clean,
and blow Tupperville away. But if the names of the
all of them were known ahead of time, Box would
start to drumbeat all that garbage.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I want to go back for Armena and just talk
about the House. The government is funded till November seventeenth.
This Israel aid package is already Schumer said it dies
in the Senate, right, it does in the Senate. Mitch
mcconnald doesn't like it. Biden said he's going to be
to it. So this goes nowhere. So now does Mike
Johnson now spend the next two weeks just hitting his
(11:18):
head against the wall, or do you think he tries
something bipartisan.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Look, Mike is under the same problematic rule that took
out Kevin, and he ends that if he crosses Gates
and the rest of the pro Russia pro Putin.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Coalition, the one person motioned to vakate MATC. Gates will
do it again.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Right, They'll vacate. They'll burn it all down again and
start the clock over. Here's the moment that I think
that Johnson's really going to be tested on. They don't
want a spending bill. As much as they claim they
don't want to do CRS, they also don't want to
do an actual budget because that puts them under the
spotlight and it shows exactly how much each of them is.
You know, I hate spending. And then they asked for Oh,
(11:55):
by the way, I need a bridge in my district.
I need this, I need that, I need this, I
need that. The problem with dedicating yourself to the forces
of chaos is that when the bill comes due, everybody's
looking around like who's going to take out the credit
card first? And the chaos monkeys? They want the restaurant
or to come in and stay. I'm calling the cops.
They want they want the blow up, they want the shit.
The idea of operating the government is anathema to the
(12:18):
radical edge of the Bannonite movement. They want to burn
it down. And so what would they love to do.
They'd love to burn it down, pass no aid for
anybody blame Joe Biden called Joe Biden an anti Semite
because he wouldn't do their specific bill. It's very predictable.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Molly, what's your money on a government shut down before
November of seventeenth.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Three to two odds?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Pretty good out, all right?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I don't think it would last a long time.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Because Republicans are going to be blamed for that.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Every time the government shutdown happens, the party in the
majority is blamed for it one hundred percent of the time.
And this particular shut down, and look, we know this
for a fact. Not one of these Republicans who bleme
eats about fiscal conservatism gives a good goddamn about the deficit.
They do not care. When they passed a one point
(13:07):
seven trillion dollar tax bill for Donald Trump. When you
did the analysis of it, it benefited about two hundred
super high net worth individuals and families in this country.
Majority of the benefit went to about two hundred individuals
and families and companies. So they don't really care about it.
But like back in my days as a Republican, when
we talked about fiscal responsibility, I actually thought we meant it.
(13:28):
We didn't. We meant the preservation of tax cuts for
a narrow sector of the economy. As a legitimate conservative,
not a fake like fake orgasm conservative, you know, if
you're going to have fiscal responsibility, it has to be
applied equally to everyone. So right now, the Trump tax
bill has expired. So the tiny trickle that helped the
middle class and the Trump tax bill it ages out.
(13:50):
It's gone. It disappears this year, So next year everybody's
taxes go up except for us super wealthiest. If they're
willing to shut down the government so that those things
can be preserved, that tells you everything about.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Just one last thing. Dessanda's lips. Is this more embarrassing
than Scott Walker's presidential run?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Discuss this makes Scott Walker's presidential run look like Ronald Reagan.
This so embarrassing and look, I wrote a piece about
this on my subset called little Boots. This will forever
be his brand, This will be the thing that he
is forever remembered by. Okay, this is like Ed Musky
crying in front of the press.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Is decaucus than the tank.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Is decaucus in the tank, and it makes decaucus in
the tank look like Churchill on the floor of Parliament
blasting the knos. It is so beyond the valley of
just embarrassing and horrible. And he will never live this down.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
If you are working on this campaign and you had
a candidate who was wearing lifts, would you just never
have led.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Him wear lifts.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
I would never have let him wear lifts. There was
some talk during the Bush and Gore race early on
of do you tell w to put on some higher
heeled shoes or whatever. Now w wore cowboy boots organically
as a fucking text.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You can see lived in Texas and he is about I.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Don't know, a Bush, about six foot, I guess. But
Gore was huge, course a big tall guy. And there's
this idea that like Al Gore was gonna be so
tall over him on the stage, and Bush himself was like,
get the fuck out of here, come on, And ironically
this idea that you had to make the stantus like
go from five to seven or five to eight or
five to night whatever the height Hea is to six
foot you know, like I'm five eleven okay, like every
(15:27):
day fucking profile in America and earlier Wilson fly too.
I'm like, I'm an actual five to ten without fancy
high heel shoes.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I love that you have to ment and mention this.
We are, by the way, the same height you and I. Well.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Sommer is a reporter at the Washington Post.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Welcome back too Fast Politics, my friend and yours potentially, Will.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Sommer, thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
I think of you.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
As the guy who knows what is happening in the
darkest corners of the Internet.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I want to start by.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
Talking about a piece you just wrote because the.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Darkest corners of the Internet happened to dovetail with the
Republicans in the House discuss.
Speaker 6 (16:15):
I wrote this piece during sort of the speakership chaos,
before Mike Johnson emerged as the victor, and just sort
of this is the story about how the right wing
media and the world of you know, whether it's Sean
Hannity's show on Fox or Steve Bannon's show, which I
believe is on Real America's Voice.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
You know that, you know, Real America's Voice.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
We all love that one.
Speaker 6 (16:35):
Yeah, how they sort of contribute to the chaos because
it gives an outsized amount of power to this this
kind of Matt Gatsey and fringe in that they can
go on Steve Bannon's show and say, this random congressman
from Arkansas is not voting for Jim Jordan the way
we want, so you need to call his office and
pressure him.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, I feel like this is trump is We saw
it like with death threats in twenty seventeen, twenty.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Sixteen, fifty and like, you know, you have to support
our guy.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
We haven't seen like this kind of top down bullying
on like procedural votes before.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
It's really weird.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
I mean watching these shows and they would be it
would be like Patrick McHenry's holding up the vote to
get to the floor tonight and then you see and
you know it is not clear that there's a tie here,
but then all the amount of like threats and death
threats to Republican members of Congress and and their wives
who if they weren't voting for Jim Jordan.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I mean, it's as far as I know.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
I mean, it's unheard of, certainly since the modern era,
that the average sort of grassroots activist would be disinvolved
in whether the vote is going to the floor tonight
or tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Right? Is this a sort of interest in governance? Are
these people more interested in the nuts and bolts of
the federal government? This cannot be.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
No.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I don't think it's that. I don't think it's that
everyone got the Almanac of American.
Speaker 6 (17:53):
Politics Christmas and now they're all fired up.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
No.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
I think it's that the speaker's race, like so many
other things, has been sort of subsumed into the rights
cultural war within itself. And because really, you know, someone
like Steve Scalise is not all that different from someone
like Jim Jordan ideologically, but you know, it's sort of
this attitude, and it's this idea that Jim Jordan was
willing to risk it all in a way that Steve
Scalise was not. And so you have someone like Steve
(18:18):
Bannon who really wants to I think feel that he
had his role in this process. So he riles up
what he calls the war room posse to go, you know,
deluge these congressmen with calls, and ultimately that's I did
succeed because they got this really far right wing guy
and Mike Johnson to be the speaker.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, so Mike Johnson looks like Paul Ryan, but he
acts like Sydney Powell. And this is my takeaway. But
I feel like you've looked at him from a different angle.
So I'm going to tell you my hot take and
then you're gonna.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
Tell me why I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Or perhaps I'm right, but I might get more out
of being wrong. This is a guy who was a
religious zealot Christian extremist, then in twenty twenty saw an
opportunity by writing this Amakus Brief to get involved or
trying to overturn the election for our man, not mine,
(19:11):
but his man, Donald Trump. Then has become a sort
of right wing media fever pitch.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
Kind of guy. Is that what this is? Or is that?
Am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (19:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (19:25):
No, I mean I think that's more or less like
you're right on. This is a guy who was basically
a backbencher. Very few people were aware of this guy
who comes from a real like Christian nationalist background, a
lot of anti gay stuff in his past, a lot
of just this idea that you know, America is like
a very affirmatively Christian nation, that that is sort of
key to what it is to be American. And then
he emerges from you know, relative obscurity in twenty twenty
(19:48):
he sort of came up with what was sort of
the thinking man's election denial, right, And so, you know,
on one hand, you have someone like Sidney Powell or
Mike Lindell who's ranting and raving and saying, you know,
a supercomputer stole the election, or dominion did it. And
I believe Mike Johnson got a little bit of the
dominion stuff. But his idea was, well, what if we
say the election has to be overturned because certain states
(20:11):
changed their election laws in ways we don't like to allow,
you know, more male and voting perhaps or early voting.
People might notice this when Republican members of Congress who
are not like really on the fringe of the fringe,
when they're asked, do you think the election was stolen?
They'll say, well, I think there were a lot of
like weird voting law changes, and it's like, well, that's
not what anyone means by the election was stolen.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Yeah, the laws changed, and.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
You didn't like it.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
You know, we're talking about like mail trucks full of
fake ballots rolling up and stuff like that. But in
this case, so yes, he sort of came up with
the polite version of trying to steal the election.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It is interesting because the election thing, the fac the
fake electors lying about the election, which has become the
Republican party line, and that really was something that was
dreamed up in the sort of fever swamp that you.
Sorry to tell you, I still consider you to be
(21:02):
a person who lives in I do.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
I love it, Molly, I have a high tolerance for it.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Are you surprised at how well that lie took and
how much it sort of growned the mainstream or did
you sort of expect this?
Speaker 6 (21:14):
I mean, honestly, yeah, I mean, even as someone who
has really been up at sort of the right of
the face of all this action, I mean every step
of the way, I've been surprised with how the Republican
Party has really allowed these conspiracy theories, including election denial.
It's really fester. I mean I remember on election night
when Trump got up and said, well, I didn't.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
Lose and they stolen.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
I thought, oh geez, it's something that you could have
seen coming, but still felt like a real crossing the
rubicon moment. And then at each step as the GOP
really welcomed that in and now it's really you know,
the mainstream line. I mean, taking it back to Mike Johnson,
we saw that after his at the press conference where
he was asked, you know, after he was selected as
their nominee, after he was asked, do you still think
the election was stolen? I mean it's something they don't
(21:52):
really want to address because they know the base thinks
the election was stolen and Trump does. But they realized
that the average person thinks that's crazy. And so when
the reporter that, then everyone goes so shut up. You know, hey,
you know what a rude thing to bring up.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, that was incredible, I have to say, because it
did feel like they have a problem, right, They have
this problem which is the thing that the base loves,
alienates and my instream voter.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
Yeah exactly, And I mean that's something that you see
over and over is that I certainly saw on the
speaker's race, was this idea that the person the base
wants who is just this like like someone like Jim Jordan,
who's you know, most famous for just like owning liberals
in his viral videos and hearings. That's not going to
appeal to the average voter, but you know, they're kind
of locked in this thing. I mean, it's the same
(22:37):
thing we're seeing with Trump and and honestly, I think
the genius of getting Mike Johnson is that he's a
guy very few people even in the Republican Party knew about,
and that he has a very bland name, and so
I mean I think that it is sort of a
name that goes in and out of your head, and
so it makes it hard for people to think, you know,
a name like McCarthy's, scalies, even Jim Jordan is a
(22:57):
name that I think sticks with people more so it's
like a bit more of an enigma to the average voter.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, it's funny because it's like I think about, you know,
just strategically, if I were a Democratic dread just which
I'm very much not, I would be nervous about Republicans
picking someone like a Tom Emer.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
Or even as Steve Scalise.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's very right wing, but like sort of affable and
likable and not too crazy. Even though in my heart
of hearts, I want them to pick someone like that
so government can work. It seems like it would help
them more in this election season to pick someone normal
who you could have out there on the step, seeming
like Republicans hadn't lost their goddamn minds. But they absolutely
(23:39):
did not have any interest in that person.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
No, no, exactly.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
I mean, like I said, I mean when I looked
at sites like the Gateway Pundit or when I watched
t Bannon show, I mean, there is a sense that,
you know, and this is how sort of the GOP's
activist fringe has managed to drive the party, you know,
at least since the Tea Party movement, is that they
just want it more and they're more intense, and you know,
the moderates end up as they did, you know, I mean,
this was this idea that with Jim Jordan and the
(24:03):
moderates were so concerned.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Because they didn't want an election, deny or and all
this stuff.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
And then you get Mike Johnson, who's one of the
architects of trying to steal the electure.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
They go, okay, so let's talk for.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
A minute about what happens on Steve Bannon's show. A
little bit obsessed with Steve Bannon Show because it is
I mean, I want you to explain to us, like
how many people watch it and why it seems to
be setting the agenda on some And again, I don't
want to say anything nice about Steve Bannon here, except
(24:33):
I'm going to say one nice thing about Steve Bannon,
which is he's very smart. A lot of these people
are very stupid and who sort of fall into this
like a Sean Hannity, But this guy is actually quite smart,
which is why he's so dangerous discussed.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Yeah, I mean, like, look, this is a guy who
certainly loves to participate in his own self mythologizing.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
But you know, he is a very active player. I
mean he's in DC.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
I think his studio is in Capitol Hill, so it's
very close by for members of Congress like Gates who
want to swing by. And I mean he was very
engaged during the Speaker's race and saying, you know, telling
the you know it's called war rooms.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
You know, he has members of Congress.
Speaker 6 (25:08):
He has sort of a rotating cast of sort of
like Trump administration leftovers who come on and are sort of,
you know, hawking their own things. One thing I think
is interesting about Bannon is he's a guy who's willing
to try to sort of make new issues on the right.
Like he was a big activist against transhumanism, so the
idea that you know, we're going to merge with robots,
and so he's been really like pushing that and it
(25:29):
may not still be the case, but on his website,
the big issues, it was used to say, election, pandemic,
and transhumanism.
Speaker 4 (25:35):
He's really sort of a pioneer in these ideas.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right, Matt Gates has emerged as the reason why Kevin
McCarthy is not the Speaker of the House anymore. What
do you think a Matt Gates' endgame is and why
do you think Matt Gates would so set on removing mcarthy.
Speaker 6 (25:54):
It is interesting, I mean, you know, perhaps his endgame.
I mean there's talk that he wants to run for
a governor of Florida. He does seem to love getting
attention and power, like many politicians, I guess, I mean,
we all remember that, you know, he grew up in
the Truman show House where The Truman Show was filmed,
and so he's.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
A quirky guy. I guess what I try to say.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
But you know, I think there was like some personal
enmity in the fact that he just sort of wanted
a head because, as you said, I mean, it doesn't
really make a ton of sense to get rid of
Kevin McCarthy and then throw the GOP into chaos for
a month. But at the same time, he was also
you know, reportedly very mad that McCarthy had allowed this
ethics investigation into him, and so that he you know,
he wanted to take him out for that.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
It is just incredible stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
There seems to be like a schism between Marjorie Taylor
Green and Lauren Bopert.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Oh yeah, well this is a very intense schism.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, how did this happen?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Sure?
Speaker 6 (26:44):
So, I mean, you know, you hate to see two
QAnon believers by.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
It, just hate to see it.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Well, yeah, I mean you have.
Speaker 6 (26:51):
Two women with sort of like outsize personalized as well.
I think this dates back to when McCarthy was first
getting elected as speaker, and I think Marjorie Taylor Green
seems to have figured, well, there's an advantage for me
in cutting a deal with McCarthy and being one of
his lieutenants rather than fighting him in something that he's.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
Eventually going to win.
Speaker 6 (27:08):
And Bobert chose the opposite side, teamed up with Matt Gates,
and then throughout we then see I believe my colleague,
my former colleague Zact Beatrizza at the Daily Beast had
some reporting. I mean, this got to the point that
they had an argument in the women's room one of
the restrooms at the Capitol where they were kind of,
you know, really getting intense with each other. And so,
I mean, this is like a very legit and ongoing feud,
and I believe there were some tweets about it. I mean,
(27:30):
so it is interesting because you know, from the outside,
they you would think of them as very similar politically
and temperamentally. But I think Marjorie Taylor Green has proved
herself to be sort of a more adept political player
because we think about Lauren Bobert, she's kind of playing
second fiddle to Matt Gates and that whole crew. She's
kind of part of this crew that includes like Paul
Gosar and Louis Gohmer and all these characters. Martor Taylor
(27:52):
Green's kind of on her own path. And also, you know,
Marjorie Taylor Green does not have a video of herself
getting a little wild at beetlejuice, right, And so I
think that show some more wisdom as well, by the way.
Speaker 5 (28:02):
A terrifying conversation that chows more wisdom.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But I do know what you're saying. I mean, it
does seem likely that Lauren Bobert is going to lose
her seat.
Speaker 6 (28:12):
Yeah, she barely got it last year twenty twenty two,
and she really only has added on more and more
scandal since then.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
And so I mean, we'll have to see. I mean,
it's not looking great, I would.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
Say, in the house.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Besides those two, you have this new speaker. Then you
have sort of the kind of ken Buck v. The
crazies talk about that dynamic because it seems like ken
Buck is the Mitt Romney of the House.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 6 (28:37):
I mean you have the situation where you have Ken
Buck and a few other members of Congress or Republicans
who just seem to be really fed up with it,
and you know, and like Mitt Romney Now ken Buck
says he won't run for reelection, right, and so I
think like Romney Buck appears to have realized, you know, geez,
like the crazies really are in control of this party
and it's not going to be fixed anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
As just calling it quits.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, it seems like there's a Maga crew in the
Senate that is Ted Cruz, jd Vance and sort of
are you seeing that and what does that look like?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (29:09):
Sure, I mean jd Vance, Josh Hawley, Right, I mean
in the case of Jady Vance, certainly he's sort of
the hero of what a lot of young Republican activists
call the new Right, which is to say, sort of
a proto fascist right, and that it is very focused on.
If you think about the difference between them and maybe
you know you're more traditional hard right Republican, is that
(29:29):
they feel, the young folks and jd Vance feel that
the previous set was did not crush their enemies enough.
And so that's why they love or loved Ron DeSantis
because they saw him as someone who, you know, I'm
gonna you know, strip Disney World down plank by plank
and stuff like that. But then you know, we've already
seen a lot of that movement implode, at least in
this collection cycle. I mean, Ron DeSantis did awfully. Nate Hawkman,
(29:51):
who is this young hero of the New Right, he
joined the DeSantis campaign and then got fired for making
the video with the Nazi symbolism.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Because Nazi symbolism is not funny, and none of this
is funny, but it is also just so stupid.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
It's amazing, it's.
Speaker 6 (30:10):
So crazy, like why would you yeah, you know, let's
just put I mean, it's how Internet addled these guys are,
and how within their own universe they are that they're like, well,
why don't we just slip this Son and rad In
and we're gonna have kind of these liked Santi's stormtroopers marching.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Thought'll be fine. I don't think anyone will mind that.
Speaker 6 (30:28):
And so that is sort of the movement that Jade
Vance has seen as this hero of that. These are
the people who call for an American Caesar, right, because
you can't if you say an American Hitler or American Mussolini,
people won't like that. But you can say, oh, I
like Caesarism, right, Yeah, Caesarism that's great.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I have sort of one last question for you, which
is the people who went on DeSantis World, because there
was a sort of schism, right people, A lot of
Trump people, not a lot, but some Trump people went
off to Santas World.
Speaker 5 (31:01):
Can they come back to Trump World or is it
over for them?
Speaker 6 (31:03):
I think it depends. I think it depends how aggressive
some of them were. I mean, you have people like
the guys on Twitter, like John Cardillo, dave Reeboy, these
kind of like bald musclemen, middle aged types in Florida,
these guys who just really like jousted with the sort
of the the Maga die hards that your Laura Lumer types.
You're like, these these people who I mean, they will
(31:25):
die for Trump. And that's what Dessanta's doesn't have, is
that he doesn't have these people who are willing to
just look like absolute buffoons for him. And so for
those guys, I think it's I mean, I don't think
they're coming back to Trump Land. I think they have
to become never Trump guys, but not in like a
Lincoln project way, like like I don't know if there's
going to be the Dassanta's Project afterwards for those guys
so that they could like find a living because really
(31:48):
they're stuck. And so The New York Times had a
story recently about the Dssanta's efforts to sort of take
over the MAGA social media universe and just how badly
they imploded in this idea. I mean, you see the
tweets wear I can't remember exactly what. Just recently they
were like it's been X number days since Donald Trump
had a flub.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
This is the new flub counter and it's like, oh, brother.
Speaker 6 (32:09):
You know, it reminds you of when Christy was like
I call him Donald Duck and it's like, you know,
there were so many meetings about it, and it just dies.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
I call him Donald Duck. Will sommer, always a delight.
We'll never call you Donald Duck.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
That means a lot, Molly, thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Josh is the editor of the Endermentum newsletter. Welcome to
Fast Politics et Indermentum. Whose real name is Josh, and
we're interviewing you today. I'm a subscriber and a fan.
I wanted to talk to you. You've been really chronicling
this incredible Republican Is it a primary?
Speaker 5 (32:59):
It feels like it's not even a primary.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
No, not really. I haven't read it about it since.
Like I think August I wrote like a series on
DeSantis and I kind of officially said his bid was dead.
When I started, I titled it The Art of Losing,
and it was that was like back in June, and
by the time, like I wrote, like, I was like
a couple months into it, I was already like, this
is kind of over a pound of sick of this.
But I finished that I gave kind of like my
(33:22):
opinion on him of that series. But I haven't red
I don't think I've read about the primary since then.
I think it's kind of settled. The Trump has wanted.
It's pretty embarrassing there's they're still going through with it.
But like I have that series and I did on it,
but everything else is kind of just looking Republicans more
generally after that.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about that in a minute.
But I was talking to a friend of mine who's
a journalist, and he was saying straight news journalist, and
he was saying he has to go to Miami for
the debate, and I was like, oh my god, they
are still having Republican debate.
Speaker 7 (33:50):
Yeah, I saw like DeSantis responding to like some news
stuff the other day, and it's like, I forgot he's
still alive.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, it's really weird by the way he just fell
down that Scott Walker Hale right where it's just if
you're a completely uncharismatic person, you should not run for president.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, I think that's part of it. I'm still thinking now,
like how.
Speaker 7 (34:10):
To write a porst mortem for that campaign. If he
could have done anything differently that it could have had
a different result, because he was pulling very well in
the winter earlier this year, but that obviously completely fell apart.
And it's strange looking back, like why that was even
the case back then, what people kind of saw from
him and what they expected him to be. I think
if he wanted to have a chance of like putting
(34:31):
in a decent showing he had to be a lot
more anti Trump than he actually was. He really tried
to appeal to everybody, ended up just alienating everybody.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
This is like the fundamental problem that a lot of
these Republicans had. It's like the primary numbers were like
Trump and everybody else. So if you were going to
be a never Trump candidate, right, you could be a
never Trump, not the way Mitt Romney is never Trump,
but the way Ken Buck is never Trump. Right, they're similar,
but you're going to in it. In twenty twenty, twenty nineteen,
(35:04):
Democrats basically.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Cleared the field.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
They were like, Joe Biden may not be my first choice,
but he is a candidate.
Speaker 5 (35:12):
That reads like a white guy who can win.
Speaker 7 (35:16):
Yeah, he had the best numbers. I was a Bernie
supporter back then, but like even then, I was kind
of like looking at the polling there as like making
a calculated risk because like Bernie and Biden always pulled
the best versus Trump. It was like they always led
by seven or eight points and Biden led by it
like a quite higher than him. So like for my
personal calculation, like, oh, I think that Bernie like will
be better president than him, So I'm willing to take
(35:38):
that risk of one or two percent because they're leading
by so much. But like I wasn't under any illusions
that Biden was the most wasn't the most electable at
the time, Like the calculation that that was the main
thing that Prayorg has, Like it made sense, like from
some perspectives.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
He seemed the most electable to you.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
He was probably.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, it's funny because it's like, I mean, I just
was like, as a Jew, I was like, we're never
going to have.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
A two president.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
No, it's so sad.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
It was like, I like Bernie a lot, but like
the idea that we would have someone who literally looks
like one of my relatives as president, like seemed impossible.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
It was so cool.
Speaker 7 (36:11):
He felt like like he had the accent of everything.
He kind of had the attitude.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
Yeah. No, I mean he's like Larry David. So the
calculus was like, this is the guy. He may not
be your first choice, but he can win.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I mean, why couldn't Republicans do that with a nicky
Haley or someone I mean, I'm not saying the.
Speaker 7 (36:28):
Satus would have made the most sense to do that.
Disantus actually had an incredible twenty twenty two. I really like,
if people don't recognize me or know my stuff, really
my I first got attention because I was one of
the people who said that there was not going to
be a red wave in twenty twenty two. I said
that Democrats want a lot stronger position. It wasn't like
the toughest call to make. There were a lot of
(36:49):
like side twenty that way, but it was surprisingly uncommon
for people to say that, So I was very vocal
in that and that got me some attention, which is kind.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Of where I am now.
Speaker 7 (36:58):
And I was very down on how all the looking
performed everywhere, but the satists did undeniablely well. Like running
by twenty points in Florida is impressive. He won like
Miami and Palm Beach County. That's like not like nothing,
that's really those are good numbers, and none of the
other candidates in the race really have that kind of record,
but they all kind of ran anyway. I think it
(37:20):
was a mix of like they genuinely saw this as
like one of their last chances of new too, something
they always planned to and just went threw it.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Out of muscle memory.
Speaker 7 (37:28):
Are there just trying to get a position in Trump's cabinet,
which I think is the case for some of them.
I think definitely for vec although things have looked a
little dicier for him than they did like a couple
months ago, so he had to do the Santis had.
First off, if he was a good politician, he would
have been able to clear the field like that. It
would that's just a prerequisite, like you need to get
people out of the race to promise them whatever you
(37:50):
show them the reality. He's just not like good at
that nuts and bald stuff. He never really has been
if you look at like my series on him.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
He wasn't connecting with the like back ben chief Florida
Congress people had he wanted to work that he could have,
you know, had people at the governor's mansion.
Speaker 5 (38:08):
I mean there just was. He was not good at
the vote whipping part of politics.
Speaker 7 (38:15):
Yeah, nuts and bald stuff, not like not even ideological,
just like basic competency things. The one story that always
sticks with me is when he flew up the DC
to meet with a bunch of these Republicans and representatives
from Florida because he was kind of having a cold
war of endorsements with Trump that he lost very decisively,
but this was in the early stages of that, and
he met with these like congressmen in this hotel for
(38:37):
several hours, and those people came out and they said,
we endorsed Trump. So we actively did like made them
go away from him from spending that effort. And it's
something you can see just across his entire career. The
more people see of him, the less they like him,
except in Florida. I guess they're just weird.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Some of what happened in Florida is that the Democratic
Party fell off a cliff and they ran a guy
who was probably a uniquely bad candidate. Right he had
been a Republican.
Speaker 7 (39:05):
Yeah, Christ was pretty poor. Both the lives, they ran
pretty poor candidates. Gillum in twenty eighteen got a lot
of attention, but looking back on it, he was actually
under like FBI investigation during the campaign, which might not
have been ideal, and he's still only narrowly lost. Christ
was just very, very Poortus, like most incumbent governers across
the country were popular. Desantus wasn't unique by any means
(39:28):
of having a strong year last year. I think Whitmer
actually had better numbers than him relative to how the
country was leading. Yeah, but nobody really ever talks about
that because of the media is sexist and they hate Whitmer.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
I want to talk about that for a minute, because
this is like a peccadillo of mine. Obviously daughter of
a second wave feminists, Like this is something I think
about a lot. Why is it that women politicians here's Whitmer.
She reads, and again, I'm going to say something that
people are not going to like, but I think it's right.
Speaker 5 (39:58):
She reads in the least feminine way.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
She plays up her sort of ability to seem like
a quote unquote normal politician, if that makes sense.
Speaker 7 (40:09):
Yeah, like her fixed the damn roads, the kind of
a very kind of.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Masculine energy, very careful, almost was the victim of an
enormously scary violent crime, very fucking tough, tough, tough, tough,
and still really gets all of the sexism.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
Yeah, people just generally don't take that seriously. But also
because she didn't know when to shift gears when it
benefited her. When Dobbs came out, she was really the
one politician in the country who did the most to
engineer that to her benefit. She campaigned relentlessly on abortion.
She defined her opponent as zone anti abortion extreamist. She
was like spearheading effort to get an abortion referendum on
(40:49):
the ballot at the same time as her So she
wasn't like afraid to run away from that issue. She
saw it as successful and she really did it like
more better than anybody else in the country. I think
across the entire state Michigan shifted blue compared to twenty twenty.
It wasn't just her. She carried everybody across the line
and obviously got her trifecta from it. So it was
a uniquely like just well managed state party campaign there
(41:13):
that I think got kind of overlooked because people just said, oh,
generally democrats did well, some Democrats did well, some did
better than others, and she was definitely in the higher
end of that.
Speaker 5 (41:22):
It sounds like it was the opposite of New York State.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, exactly, give me the TLDR on twenty twenty eight.
I'm sorry, I don't get nobody get mad at me,
but who do you see as strong? I read a
piece in one of those political magazines that was like,
she's twenty twenty eight. Did you see that candidates are
buying in case they can manage to get Who do
(41:48):
you like for twenty twenty eight? Oh?
Speaker 7 (41:50):
Well, I wrote, like, I'm a list of this actually
most few one. I don't want to go through everything,
but I have on Whitmer as the highest there by far.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
I think she's kind of.
Speaker 7 (41:59):
In a cheer of her own. If you're like a
left winger, she's not really anything totally new from what
you've seen Democrats before. She's very much a mainstream liberal.
But like really any analysis of her like kind of
my take on it is that she's a liberal who
can definitively win, like in terms of a lifetidentity. Nobody
really has her track record. She has a history of
using the power that she got through her savvy electoral
(42:23):
sort of approach for like very positive legislative gains in
a very tough legislative environment. She has one seed majorities
in both of the state houses there and has been
able to repeal Right to Work I think, codify Obamacare.
I think she did that two days ago, codifi Roe v. Wade,
and Michigan just like a very tremendously productive year they've
(42:44):
had there. So I don't think really anybody else has
the combination of executive experience and demonstrated political competency that
she has. Warnock, I think as a Georgian I've always
been a fan of him. I'm still surprised that he's one,
not like two, but basically four elections for Warnock. Yeah,
he's had to work so hard. I saw him like
(43:04):
at a rally one time, he looked so tired. I
told him he was going to win so and I
was right. So that was a fun little moment.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
He has really had to work it though.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Let me ask you, when you look at this sort
of speakership battle, were you surprised?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (43:20):
I mean, I feel like they just had a moment
where they like, we can't embarrass ourselves anymore.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
We just have to pick whoever it is.
Speaker 7 (43:26):
Yeah, that was my most recent article. But US politics,
I call it just good old fashioned political failure. That
wasn't everybody wants to chalk it up like, oh, Washington's dysfunctional,
Washington can get anything done. That was beyond that and
all of these instances. You just have these kind of
cases of Republicans being really like just stupid beyond like
an ideological level. The conclusion I kind of came to
(43:49):
when I was writing about this and like finishing that
piece was we're used to Republicans being evil or bad,
like pushing evil and bad policies, and we can still
fear them because evil and bad people can be very
competent and savvy, right, But this new Republican Party isn't
like they're not just bad, but they're also dumb. So
it's not just their policies are bad. Their policies are
(44:11):
just stupid, and you believe in enough stupid policies, eventually
you just become stupid yourself, and you get to a
point where you're like Jim Jordan and you're like having
your supporter send death threats to the people who won't
vote for you and blaming them for that, embarrassing yourself
on a national stage. Are you Steve Scalise and you're
at the apex of your career you can't even articulate
(44:31):
why you should be speaker? Are Tom Emmer and God
just hates you and you have to drop out after
four hours. It's not even like that they just believe
in bad things that they're not popular. They're just personally
stupid to the point where they can't even selfishly seek
power the way that they used to be able to.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
We keep finding them sort of unable to deliver for
them besides their voters, for themselves.
Speaker 7 (44:54):
Yeah, that's the difference, because it used to be that
these guys could personally benefit from being in power. Now
they just can't really accomplish anything.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, this is like the thing I think about a
lot is here we are. We have this guy. He
doesn't know how to do the speaker job at all.
He's hired two people from Fox News to be in
his team, right, he didn't hire like.
Speaker 7 (45:15):
He's a total hicic dumb ass. I can say this
is a Southerner. He just like is really just one
of those stupid people that you see you are involved
in right wing politics?
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Were this me?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
And I woke up one day and was like, holy shit,
I'm the Speaker of the House.
Speaker 5 (45:28):
I'm completely unprepared for this job.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
I have no idea who anyone is. I cannot whip votes.
Nobody knows who I am. I just met miss McConnell.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
This is like America's worst anxiety dream.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Wouldn't you just hire all of the smart people who
worked for McCarthy, who is also a moron? Like, wouldn't
you yeah, instead of pulling out people from Fox News.
Speaker 5 (45:49):
I mean, what's the thinking here?
Speaker 7 (45:51):
I think the one thing with Mike Johnson that makes
them particularly important here is that he genuinely believes in
like God and thinks that like he's fulfilling some kind
of large like he's a younger creationist. He thinks that
the earth is six thousand years old. He genuinely believes
in this stuff and what he wanted. He probably thought like, well,
that's probably just because God is rewarding me for all
the other stuff that I did before. So I imagine
(46:12):
he has a tremendous level of confidence where he thinks
he's being divinely rewarded for being a massive homophob for
his entire life. And he's just thinking like, well, this
is going well, why don't I just continue with what
I'm doing. The thing is, what he was doing before
was at a really low level, and when you're at
this higher stage, you have to be very tactful in
what you say and very like measured and strategic. So
(46:33):
he's just going out there and singing like, oh yeah,
Joe Biden, this guy who I'm gonna have to work
with for the next year. I think he's seen Aisle.
He's just gonna personally insult him.
Speaker 5 (46:41):
Not brilliant.
Speaker 7 (46:42):
Yeah, I'll pass the israel A that everybody sports. If
you let us take money away from the irs so
rich people cannot pay taxes, and then that gets revealed
to cost more money than it'll save. It's just like
a baseline level of incompetence there that makes you really
realize why this guy was like a last its choice.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, I think that's right. You think he's able to
stick around just the Israel AID stuff.
Speaker 5 (47:06):
I think there are.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
People in the Senate who believe they can put together
a package and then bring it back to the House
and get the bipartisan vote. I mean, are Republicans willing
to die on this? Hell they love Israel?
Speaker 7 (47:16):
Yeah, I don't think so. The question will be I
think if it's going to be a combined Ukraine Israel
package or if they're going to be split. And the
Ukraine stuff is obviously like a lot more contentious in
terms of passing than the Israel stuff is. The offsetting
it is completely dead on arrival. It's politically unpopular. That's
just a complete stunt and looks embarrassing.
Speaker 5 (47:38):
Yeah, so that's dead on arrival. So what was the
point of doing that?
Speaker 7 (47:42):
He's just not It's like what I said, like these
guys believe in dumb stuff, and at a certain point
they just are kind of dumb themselves, like they live
in an echoed chamber. They think that everybody thinks the
way that they do, and they misinterpreted the reason why
they wanted the past, and they think that just doing
far right stunts is like going to get people interested.
When Jim Jordan said, according to Politico that like he
(48:03):
was trying to threaten least and he said America wants me,
I think he sincerely thinks that America does want him, because,
like you think, these guys are looking at like what
normal people think. They're just looking at like their supporters.
They have a bunch of yes men around them. They're
kind of atrophying into a party that would be one
that you'd expect to be organized around Trump, which is
just not very confident.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Thank you, no moment, Wilson.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Yes, I'm here for all your fuckery needs.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Do you have a moment of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
You know, I have a moment of fuckery from Thursday
watching Eric fail Son, absolutely the best bed for the
Trump family, absolutely losed his mind and blow it on
the stand. You had to know that in Donald Trump's head,
like everything was validated at that moment about how shittingly
he treats Eric, because Eric literally not have made a
(49:01):
dumber set of statements in the course of that appearance.
Although the secondary moment of fuckery that's coming is Avoka
has to testify, He's gonna struggle with a set of
feelings of betrayal, hatred, and arousal all at once.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
I have to say that the Evanka, she gets my
moment of rockery because she said she couldn't testify during
the school week.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
I have three children. They do go to school. But
she moved to Miami is not very far from New York.
That's like a two hour flight.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
You could theoretically, and you know, I don't know if
you know this, but her father has a lot of
real estate in New York. She could fly on his
plane and be back for dinner the next night.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
I would be remis if I failed to mention that
Evanka has an army of Nanny Cook's gardeners, drivers, health servants, ladies' maids,
under butlers, butlers, the entire Downton abbey f constellation of
household staff. And give me a break.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
We think that Ivanka does not need to take the
school week from testifying.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Right, Yeah, And if you think of Vodka is sitting
at home with a little Kushner Sprague saying okay, honey,
have you finished all your homework? No? They have some
sort of staff or in house to deal with that.
I for you. So that is our moment of cook right,
A glorious, glittering moment of trumpy and fuckery.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
Thank you, Rex, thank you, thank you. That's it for
this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
And again, thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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