Tim Miller, Frank Bruni & Tony Vargas

Tim Miller of The Bulwark surveys the fickleness of centrists whenever Biden does something that makes them angry. State Senator Tony Vargas details his run for Congress against Congressman Don Bacon in Nebraska. Frank Bruni of The New York Times examines his new book, "The Age of Grievance.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast, and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And RFK has finally admitted that he
has brighten worms. We always knew it to be true.
We have such a great show for you today. State
Senator Tony Vargas stops by to talk about running for

(00:24):
Congress against Congressman Don Bacon in Nebraska.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Then we'll talk to the New York Times.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Frank Bruney about his new book, The Age of Grievance.
But first we have the host of the Bulwark Daily podcast,
The Bullworks, Tim Miller.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome back to Fast Politics. Tim Miller, it's good to
be back.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Mollie John Fast.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
It's good to have you. So tell me if you
think this is crazy. This is the thing I've been
thinking a lot about. Is like there's such vibe based
feeling every day in this fucking run up to the
forever election.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
But you know, you check in with people and they're like,
oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
You know I have a friend who is like ambassadors
are trying to find trumpy ambassadors so that when Trump
comes back into power these countries and you know he's
not going to win, and my friend went to Alabama
and da da da, like I feel like and then
the next day everyone's like, wow, this is working. He
went to Wisconsin. This new poll out of Wisconsin tros

(01:25):
he's up six points. Like don't you feel like there's
sort of a vibe based group think that is hard
to not engage with.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
I do think that. I think that it is for
a couple of reasons. One, it's just our social media existence.
You know, there just wasn't like a need for having
constant opinions about elections that you know, in nineteen ninety six,
maybe you checked in the morning paper, maybe mention it
to one guy at work at the lunch room or gal,
but that was about it. So I think social media
creates it. And I also think that just fear of

(01:52):
Trump creates it. Right, I mean right, people are so
scared about it and so anxious that you know, they're
looking for a salve, right, They're looking for a fact
or somebody to give him hope. I'm looking for Simon
Rosenberg to give him a little hopeum one day and
then God loves Simon, that's not a criticism. And then
they're looking like they're trying to come up with, Okay,
what's my plan, what's my prepper plan for if he

(02:14):
does if he does win? You know, and like this
is just and so I think that yields vibe based
kind of flailing about and the other thing. As you said,
it's just been a very long election. I mean, like
we really, in a normal year, the general election would
just be coming into form. I mean, I'm going for
memory now, but pretty sure May night, like the Hillary
Obama race was still going May ninth, I mean it

(02:35):
was like pretty clear it was Obama at this point,
but Hillary, I think, was still going. We'll get love
to fact check that, but you know, I mean some
of these primaries have been still going at this point
in the cycle.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Jesse says that that election was going until June fourth,
So you were right.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, Jesse's doing it. I just pulled it up to
Hillary conceded June seventh. It looks like like it was
officially over June fourth, and she gave her that glass
ceiling speech June seventh, So that's another month, right, So
think about that. I mean, like this probably Mary has
been over.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
It feels like forever, right, and like the eighteen months
ago a week after Republicans underperformed in that twenty twenty election,
Trump was like, I got to get in there right,
largely because he was hoping that if he announced, he
would avoid criminal prosecution.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, he'd avoid going to prosecution, maybe scare some people
out of running. That didn't work with for DeSantis. Turned
out he didn't need to worry about scaring tiny d.
But yeah, I mean it's been going from before Thanksgiving
twenty twenty two and all the way to now and
we still six months, so you know, you need something
to fill that void when you have this anxiety. There's
when there's this interest, and there's some people have checked out,

(03:39):
but we have this interest. The funny thing about it
is are made. The depressing thing about it is all
of us who are like super informed, are making, you know,
our moods are swinging based on the news cycle unbelievably. Yeah,
and the people who are going to decide the election,
not all of them, but a big percentage of people
that are going to decide the election are like what's

(03:59):
row you know, like literally that there's a small handful
of swing voters who are highly engaged, but most of
the swing voters are not that engaged, and so all
the rest of us are like getting our you know,
on our anxiety meds over something that the people that
are actually going to potentially swing the election don't even
know is happening. So yeah, that's not healthy.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
I think it's a really good point.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
And the thing that people do now, and I wonder
if this happens to you because you live in a
totally different state, but in a blue city but in
a red state. The thing that happens to me now
is people come over to me and they're like lovely,
and I'm honored and likes as someone who is the
child and grandchild of people who weren't famous and then
weren't famous, I know what a privilege it is and

(04:45):
how fleeting it is. But people come over to me
and say, you know, you know whatever, and then they'll say,
is it going to be okay?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
I mean, do people ask you that?

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Oh yeah, I get that a lot. I mean I
get that a lot. I get it from friends who
are as much in tautics, but also strangers, you know,
which is also nice. I also like here for people,
it's wonderful. It's all, it's so lovely because it's usually
it's not people that are yelling at me because I
don't want Fox anymore. Right Like back in the old days,
some people yell at me at the airport back when
I go on Fox, but the Fox didn't have me anymore.
So it's always people that are like, thank you, I

(05:16):
appreciate and so I love that and I'm hopeful that
I can give people some kind of comfort or you know,
make them feel good to be like, oh, that's the
guy that used to be a Republican that isn't insane,
you know, Like I get that from people. But yeah,
they asked me it's going to be okay, They like
they want me to tell them it is, and I'm like, man,
I'm raincloud, Like I'm not the right person to ask
for this, Like I'm happy to be a hug if
we're going to do deep psychological stuff on the podcast today,

(05:37):
I have to tell you I mentally was not allowing
myself to consider the possibility that Trump could win up
through about a month or two ago. And I've been
starting over the last month to like do the thing
in my head, which is like, okay, it'll be okay.
You know, I live in a blue city, like I
will keep fighting. I'm not going to Portugal like these
you know, like these tuck and run franchists. I'm not

(05:58):
doing it. I'm going to fight it and we can
survive it, and it's going to be bad. But anyway,
but that's not a great sign that But that just
shows like if I'm going through that psychological thing, obviously
other folks are. But I'm not in a panic. I
don't want to make it to seem to listeners like
I'm in a panic. I still think that Biden probably
guts this out in the electoral college, but it's just
it's just way too close for comfort.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right And I think, look, it's easier to keep an
incumbency than it is. Incumbency has huge advantages being the
actual president and versus the guy sitting in the criminal
one hundred center Street listening to an adult film star
talk about their sexual encounter, which is what Trump is

(06:39):
doing right now. But I think what's hard for me
psychologically since this has turned into Molly and Tim Dooth therapy,
is that I come from a world where, like yesterday
RFK said he had a big dead worm in his brain.
I would think that would be disqualifying to a presidential candidate.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
You're able to know.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
If I had a big dead worm in my brain,
I would be like, perhaps I shouldn't be president.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
It is like a perfect veep situation. I mean, you
can just imagine the scene and beep where they like,
you know, man of vice president, he's got brain worms
and she's like, obviously he's got brain words, and he's like, no, literally,
he has a dead worm that was eating his brain.
Everything that he said that demonstrates that he has figured
if brain worms is what has been disqualifying, the RFK

(07:33):
mojo definitely seems to be slackening a little bit. I
don't think it's just the brain worm that's good. I've
always said that the lower you get him, the better
because his core base is kind of trumpy, you know,
And so what you don't want is RFK getting up
into the teens or the double digits, Like that's going
to be bad news for Biden. If you can keep
him down at three or four, that's going to be
maybe probably help Biden on that.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
I thought that Ari Malburn did a really good interview
of RFK Junior yesterday, and like there's this big argument
in the liberal space of like whether or not you
should have people like that on an interview, And I
actually thought it was brilliant. Because of our siloed media environment,
he hasn't received a ton of like real smart pushback.

(08:18):
And one of the things that I was struck by
watching Ari was that he really did. RFK Junior just
fell apart. Like Ari was like, well what about this?
And he could, you know, will you pardon the januaries?
You know, the problem with RFK two is he knows
Trumpers like him, so he doesn't want to alienate them,
so that he's like, would you pardon these January sixth?
I mean, these are like violent people who are in jail.

(08:41):
This is an easy one, right. The answer is oh,
And he's like and he's like.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
I'm a lawyer at it.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know. He just will not answer the question and
then he just got furious with Ari.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
And I thought it was a.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Really good example of how if you push these people,
they kind of just fall apart.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
I think you have to break these bubbles somehow. And
I understand the platform and complaint. I think a lot
of it is based on just this total legitimate frustration
with how the media treated Trump in twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
It was just such a fuck up and such an
obvious fuck up. But like, not every situation is Trump
in twenty sixteen, right, Like you have to be nimbleough
to understand, Like, yeah, sure, there are certain people like
non famous people. Also, we shouldn't platform Like that is
a habit that I've switched, you know, I don't quote
tweet non famous you know, people that are obviously doing
rage bait, racist stuff because they're trying to go viral,

(09:32):
and I don't you know what I mean, Like that
makes sense. But people who are in presidential politics, who
are in politics, who are influential, who never have to
answer hard questions because they're in their little either contrarian
bubble in RF case case or maga bubble in the
case of some of these other folks, they do need
to get pushed back on, and they struggle with these
questions because they're you know a lot of them are

(09:52):
advancing obvious lies, like whether it be about vaccines or
the twenty twenty elexent or January sixth. Like, these people
don't want to have to answer questions on these, So
you do them a favor by not platforming them. You
know they they're they're happy to just go on Fox
and Sean Hannity, and so already it's great at this
already did that. I had a great exchange with car
Rove earlier this year too that I thought was very
you know, useful to kind of poke at the soft

(10:15):
underbelly of some of these arguments that are coming from
like Trump apologists.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, I think it's really important and I think you
got to do it. And it's totally different than having
a town hall where Trump just runs rough shaw over you.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
And you have a crowd with cheering for him.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
That was so bad.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
And you know what's amazing about that town hall that's
an in town hall is that the moment they did it,
their numbers never came back. But it's just sort of
fascinating like they did this and viewers were like, no.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Sounds crazy. I've always felt the same a scene. Then,
I think Scenn could do well if they just stuck
in on hard news, and obviously that town hall is
a big mistake. Seen then has this fundamental problem that
a lot of people in media do that I see clearly.
I think given my perspective at the Bulwark, which is
to represent the Republican side, we're going to have on
people that will defend Donald Trump but aren't really MAGA

(11:11):
and aren't insurrectionists, and they're kind of conservative, and we're
going to pander to this group, you know, in order
to show some kind of faux balance, when in reality,
like that group of people is like eight percent of America,
so it's like they might be important eight percent actually
as a swing vote and group in elections. So if
you're telling me you're going to advertise targeting those groups,
if your Joe Biden, I said, that's smart. But if

(11:32):
you're CNN, it's like, why are you doing this? Like
why why are you? You know, either make the decision
to have mega people on and hold them accountable because
they actually represent the Republican Party, or do an MSBC
does and just say, hey, we're not going to we're
not going to platform liars, Like either of those are
defensible positions. This like, oh, we're gonna kind of whitewash
the Republican Party and only put on the you know,

(11:52):
the few, you know, blue blazered faces of it, you know,
who have no actual power within the party I get
to doesn't make any sense, and so I just think
CNN is really stuck in kind of a sour spot
on that.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, I think that's right.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I mean, I sort of get it because it's like
there's no precedent for one party pretty much giving up
on democracy.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Right, It's hard, These are hard choices. This is all
I kind of hate, like the broad brush media criticism.
I'm totally on board with case by case picking it.
But like what the New York Times editored did the
Ben Smith interview this week, This is just it was
a horrible interview this guy gave where he's like, Oh,
the people care about immigration, so we should write more
about immigration. It's like that, what do you talk like?
That's not you don't pull to decide what you should

(12:34):
write about.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
But it's also impossible to know what I mean, the
big problem that all of us are having right now
is that the polls have been notoriously wrong. We really
don't know what what are this huge country and we
have no idea what anyone's thinking.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah, and so you should just write about what's important,
what the news is right, and so this is the
tough part. So I'm totally on board with everybody should
write more about the stakes and the Times how it's
actually done a good amount of reporting on the Project
twenty twenty five stuff. But on the scandal side, I
totally get the Dan Pfeiffer, the Democratic complaint. That's like
they've written twelve stories about Biden's age and zero stories

(13:09):
about Trump's age, and that's unfair. It's kind of like, yeah,
that's unfair. But also, what are you supposed to do
if you're the New York Times when you have one
candidate from one party that is just a habitual liar
that has ninety some odd felony counts, you know, that
is trying to end the democracy that is staffed by
like white nationalist freaks. Like the fact that Donald Trump

(13:31):
is old is like the eighty fourth most troubling thing
about him. And so it's like, okay, so how where
do you fit it in? And so I understand you've
got to be conscious of fairness and all that, but
I think that that Donald Trump has presented this just
unprecedented challenge for the media in how to deal with
somebody that is constantly lying, constantly advancing conspiracies, constantly criming.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
You know, It's like.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
It's also a mechanics problem, like the you know, the
opinion page. I mean a lot of those pieces we're
in the opinion side. I mean, you don't get to tell.
I mean, I guess you probably do, but you know,
the opinion columnists have a lot of power, and that's
what they wanted to write about. I mean, that's not
necessarily a larger editorial decision, and it's not necessarily organized,

(14:15):
you know. Like that's the other thing which I think
is we all have to be really careful about. I
feel like we're not being as fun as usual. But
like it's not a case exactly. It's okay, it's very fun.
It's very fun. It's often not a conspiracy as much
as it's just how things turn out, which I think
is a valuable lesson after twenty sixteen.

Speaker 5 (14:35):
It is.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
And I mean, you know, look, the guy is in court,
we're taking this and Stormy is getting is getting cross examined.
And it's been a while we've had a situation where
a presidential candidate has to sit in court and listen
to somebody that he did kind of a rape adjacent,
gross sexual encounter with that he then covered up. Okay,
so that's one thing you got to write about. But
then also he has all these scary plans for twenty

(14:58):
twenty five, and then also got these staffers around him
that are corrupt, and he's promising these part and it's
just like, it's an overwhelming amount of stuff that you
could that you could write about it.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, And I've written about the stormy testimony, and I
am very struck by it, especially that she talks about
this idea that it was like not totally consensual, right,
that she wasn't raped, but she certainly did not feel
like she had a ton of options.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
And this is a woman.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
She was young, she was twenty seven, but she had
been in situations like this before, right. I mean, I
think sleazy guys wanting to have sex with her was
not something that was.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
New to her.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
It stood out to her, and I think that is
meaningful that to me, speaks more to his character than
many things I've heard about her.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, I'm obsessed about talking about this because I think
it gets shrunk in media discourse too. Trump had sex
with the porn star while his wife was, you know,
still had a very very young baby, and that's matter. Yeah,
you know, that's the kind of the one sentence thing.
But it also, like to some guys like to bros
like that makes it seem like badass, Like yeah, Trump

(16:07):
was banging this porn star. But like the real story,
if you just explain it with four more sentences, is
much grosser and much creepier, you know. And that is
that a disgusting old man went and sat on the
bed in his fucking dirty underwear while Stormy was in
the bathroom while they were planning to go to dinner,
and she gets out of the bathroom and he pressures

(16:28):
her to have sex by promising her some like reality
TV role or some director role while he has a
security guard sitting outside the door, and then he puts
his gross hands on her and darts his little disgusting
tongue in her face and puts his little fingers in
her Like that is a disgusting rape adjacent. It's not
rape good on Stormy, Like can Stormy did not make
a false accusation thing. So but it's like that is

(16:50):
a very creepy, very sad, very gross scene. That's not
like badass guy screwing broads, you know what I mean? Yeah,
And I think that's very different and and it's important
to talk about it Avia because Stormy deserves us to
talk about it as it really was. But also maybe
somewhere out there there's going to be some twenty year
old that like listens to it from that perspective and

(17:11):
it's like, wait a minute, this guy sucks. Actually this
isn't cool, right.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
And I also think when you read the Olivia Nazzi
piece in your magazine, she says, I thought we were
having this conversation about my future, and then I come
out of the bathroom and he's in his boxer shorts.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
And I realized that.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
She actually says in the piece of everything he was
promising me was bullshit, and that betrayal. Even though this
is a woman who you know from Michael Abinauti, I mean,
this woman has definitely had her share of betrayals, but
it just struck me as such a like heartbreaking moment
when she realizes, like something right out of a movie,
you know.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
She realizes that he's just been lying this whole time.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Yeah, he's sick.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
I hate him so much, Mollie, you have no idea.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
I just would like to not spend the next.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
Can we re interrst the people that I hate? Now?
Thank you the most, thank you, And that's your show,
so we can do it everyone. We can talk about
Marjorie Taylor Green, we can talk about jazz Fest. We've
got whatever you.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Spring us here, and I bet you are trying to
look fashionable, So why not pick up some fashionable all
new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store
with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,
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(18:35):
Tony Vargas is a state senator and candidate for Congress
in Nebraska's second district. Welcome to Fast Politics, Tony. Tell
me where you're running and what you're running for and the.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Whole kaboodle, the whole.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
My name is Tony Vargas. I am a state senator
in Nebraska, and I'm running for Congress from Nebraska's second
congressional district.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
Amazing, And tell me what does that district look like?

Speaker 4 (19:06):
An incredibly unique independent district. This is where the big
city of Omaha is. This is also a district that's
voted for Trump in twenty sixteen, then voted for Biden
in twenty twenty. It's urban, you know, sort of suburban
sprawl and a little bit of rural. So it's it's

(19:27):
just an incredibly diverse district in terms of all the
geographic locations, and it's where I've served in office for
eight years as a state senator.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
And two it's Nebraska's second district. Right, yes, correct, So,
and right now you're running against the Republican who is
in there?

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Who is Don Bacon?

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yeah, you got it?

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Is he running for reelection?

Speaker 4 (19:50):
He is running for reelection. Yeah, he's in the middle
of his own battle right now in a primary right
and against him.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yet, Yeah, so Bacon is a he's one of these
embryonic personhood people talk to us about Republicans and their
obsession with banning both abortion and IBF.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
I mean, one, I can tell you it's at a
step with this districts. We continually hear from Nebraskans and
in this district that the overwhelming majority support reproductive freedom
and abortion rights. And you know, sixty one percent of
the district supports it. He is incredibly at a step.
He didn't just co sponsor the Life of Conception Act once,

(20:31):
he co sponts it it three times. This extreme Haga
position on a banning abortion nationwide with no exceptions and
no carve out for IVF is what he really wants
to do. It is what he is pushing for, It's
what he cares about. But I love seeing him try
to pivot on this because co spots through legislation and

(20:53):
Lutley saying he thinks he is smarter than women and
physicians is making people angry at the district and is
at a step up with the Bradskins in the second districts.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
So one of the things you are doing is talking
to people who in a district they voted for Trump
in twenty sixteen but voted for Biden in twenty twenty.
I live in the Acela Corridor, so I am subjected
to vibes based punditry. And I'm curious since you are

(21:22):
actually in a district that is in some ways about weather, right,
because your people are clearly a little bit sane, right,
because they voted for Trump and then voted for Biden.
So I'm curious what are their concerns and what are
their anxieties? And are you talking to people who are like,
we can't let this guy get back in office or

(21:43):
are they Trump curious again?

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Have they like?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
The big anxiety in the media industrial complex is that
people have forgotten Trump?

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Do you are you seeing that? What are you seeing
when you talk to voters?

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Well, I don't think people have forgotten Trump at all.
You know, Trump isn't actually very very unpopular in the district.
It is very clear where Bacon stands on this. You know,
he didn't just endorse him to time. He was the
first member of the federal delegation to endorse Trump the
first two times and just endorsed him a third time.
People were taking notice of that. They know that he's
endorsed somebody that is indicted so many times that we've

(22:19):
lost count and know that somebody that undermines democracy and
that wants to, you know, continue to support, you know,
people that are subverting our government system. And he's just
as extreme. And you know, I think what what we've
seen and heard from people on the ground is they
want an everyday person in Congress. They want a working
class individual that's going to fight for them. And when

(22:40):
we talk to people, I get to share with him.
You know, I'm the son of Peruving immigrants. I am
a first generation college graduate. I was a public school
science teacher. I've served as a school board member, and
I've been a state senator, you know, and I'm a father.
I have two young kids and the wonderful, amazing wife
and that you know, and she's got her own career, working,
you know, in the nonnprofit law sector. And we are

(23:01):
working parents trying to fight for others. And in the legislature,
that's what I've done. I prioritized fighting for the middle class.
You know, this is bringing jobs to this state. You know,
so like worked on the complementary legislation to help the
Chips Act. You know, Bacon's voted against the Chips Act,
and we're trying to make sure we are investing in

(23:21):
the next generation of American made jobs. You know, Bacon
voted against the American Rescue Plan Act, you know, to
try to help us bounce back from COVID nineteen, help
our businesses and individuals. And I work to leverage these
funds with a few other sub senators to secure more
than two hundred and fifty million dollars for the east
side of the second District. And so they know that

(23:42):
one Bacon is extreme. He is endorsing Trump a third time,
and he's doing absolutely nothing to actually help middle class families.
And we're not letting them forget it.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
When you talk to people on the ground, what do
they say. Do they blame Biden for inflation? Are they
mad about inflation? Are they worried about democracy? What are
voters concerns that you're hearing.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Well, you hit one thing on the head, which is
they're frustrated. And I get why they're frustrated inflation. You know,
even even when we are investing in jobs and even
when we're doing more to to to give money back
to people, inflation is rising. And it hurts. It hurts
families that are trying to pay childcare, and it's getting
expensive more expensive. It hurts when you're trying to pay

(24:26):
rent or your mortgage. It hurts when you're trying to
pay your gas bill or your grocery spill. It does.
And I think it's stepping up and recognizing that, and
so we hear that, and then I get to tell
people that's the reason why I'm running. You know, in
the legislature, I've I've given I've given money back to
Nebraska and so I've voted for tax relief and in
record numbers. I've also been able to balance our budget.
I've been able to invest invest in jobs, and then

(24:49):
Bacon voting against lowering prescription drug costs, and voting against
lowering health insurance premips, and voting against the middle class
tax cut, and you know, and talking about gutting soul
security and medicare. We hear that they want somebody that
it's going to actually listen to their pain and how
they're feeling right now economically and is going to do

(25:12):
something about it, rather than somebody that like Bacon, that's
just talking as if he is going to do something.
But look, after you know, eight years, isn't actually get
anything done to lower the cost of living for every
data Braskets.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Do you talk to people who get twenty five dollars
insulin and are they like, oh, this was Biden.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Do you think they're able to thread the needle?

Speaker 4 (25:32):
Well, I think one thing is true. People know that
this administration is responsible for lowering the cost of insulin,
and that Democrats have been leading on lowering the cost
of healthcare. But we also have people like Bacon that
try to lie. You know, he tried to take credit
for it, you know, even though he voted against the
actual legislation that lowered you know, insulin costs for Nebraskas

(25:54):
and so I think that's what this is. There's a
lot of issues that we're hearing from people, but like
the top three things we hear from me is cost
of living hurts, Inflation hurts, and we want somebody that's
going to listen and it's going to do something about it.
I have a record of getting into action and being
an actual problem solve on behalf of Nebraskans. People want
somebody that's going to respect their privacy and their freedoms.
And Bacon inserting themselves between a physician and you know,

(26:16):
and their families and women, you know, is not only
out of step, is incredibly extreme for this country and
extreme for this district. And then lastly, they do want
somebody that's going to stand up to democracy. You know,
Bacon endorsing Trump three times despite everything tells me he
cares more about power, power and politics and the party
and standing by Trump and doesn't have the backbone to
actually represent our country in Congress when we need it

(26:40):
the most. We need it the most, We need somebody
that's going to stand up to extreme as well.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Is the mood in Nebraska sour though? Are people in
a bad mood.

Speaker 4 (26:49):
We've been listening to Nebraskas, and we've been doing events.
We've been we've been knocking on tens of thousands of doors,
and my wife and my kids and I when we're
listening to people, we recognize and hear the pain of
people are also seeing hope. They're seeing hope. We're trying
to reach out to them. Like there's differences in what
we're seeing on the ground and we're also seeing it
are upholling. Like right now we are up in the

(27:10):
polls forty six to forty three, which reminds us that,
like people want something different. They want to know voting
against them, and I told you how extreme Bacon is
and what they're voting against, but they also want to
know what you stand for. And we've been able to
tell them and communicate and we will over the next
six months reach out to people, meet them where they're at,
and also tell them what's at stake. We need somebody

(27:31):
that's going to protect democracy. We need somebody that will
always fall back and listen to people first, not parties,
you know, not not super wealthy people, but then first.
And I think that's why, you know, Bacon's incredibly unpopular
in the district. You know, in our you know, he's
he's underwater and negative eleven in terms of his unfavorability
in the district. And that shows us that people are

(27:53):
are fed up with with somebody that's just going to
blindly support you know, extreme magor right, you know, wing
to the party, and and they want somebody that's going
to try to represent everybody. And I've done that for
the last eight years, for the last eleven years, is
acted official. So it matters, you know, it matters that
you know, we've been listening and we've been we've been
actually acting and trying to reach many people's possible.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, that seems really important and good. So I'm just
curious how you sort of you run Are people able
to sort of figure out that there is a connection
between the dysfunction in the house and flipping the seat.
And also, I think one of the big anxieties that
a lot of us have is that there's a sense

(28:37):
in which we wonder how much is getting through to
people because of what's happened with the media so and
the death of local news. So for example, yesterday Marjorie
Taylor Green did another motion to vacate. So I'm wondering
if you see voters like, are they seeing the dysfunction
in the House and are they blaming people like Don

(29:00):
Bacon for it.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
We are hearing from people that they're seeing that, and
most I don't think it's about blaming them. It's the
responsibility that they decided to take on. Don Bacon has
helped enable the far right extreme in this country, like
Marjorie Taylor Green to be able to have the power
that they currently have by not standing up to Trump,
by not standing up to the far right to be

(29:23):
get in this position. It's their own party. You know,
they wanted to govern, they wanted to be in leadership,
and they have to rely on Democrats to do that.
And I think the country is seeing real bipartisanship is
happening when when Democrats are stepping up and doing everything
they possibly can to make sure government functions. And it's
you know, my time in the legislature. I've buckt my
own party to make sure that we're balancing budgets to

(29:45):
make sure that we are giving money back to taxpayers
and providing billions of dollars of tax relief. And I've
actually done that. And so people are seeing that while
people are trying to afford groceries while they're trying to
pay for gas. There's being that Bacon is part of
a Congress and is leading it is out out there
that is the most ineffective Congress that is more focused

(30:08):
on mega issue.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
I mean, do voters say that to you when you
talk to them. Do they say, like, you know, I
know they have passed the least bills of any Congress
ever or has that not permeated.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
I think one very big headline has permeated, which is
they're not doing their job and they're likeed to do
their job and everybody else every day work in Nebraskan's
a nurse, a firefighter, you know, a tea shirt, you know,
a construction worker, you know a union member. Like they
are working every day and Congress isn't getting any work
done on their behalf.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
The house flipped.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
Republicans buy such a small margin and they've had so
much chaos, and the speakership battle has been one of
the big ones.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
The voters that you talk to, are they aware of that?

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I think voters are aware of that right now. Bacon
and others you know in the Republican Party. There's been
more chaos that has been part of everything that they've
been doing, you know, and right now we need new
members of leadership. I mean in members of Congress that
are focusing on the actual things that matter to Nebraska's
It's why I'm running as a former public school science teacher,

(31:13):
as somebody that is a working parent. I am still
feeling and seeing what people are going through. And so
when people like Bacon are focusing on trying to ban abortionationwide,
and you know, are not getting anything done for working
families to lower cost of living. I've been working in
this last couple of years just actually on creating jobs
and actually making it easier for people. And so it's resonating.

(31:37):
It's getting back to people. This Congress is unable to
get anything done. And why would we re elect, you know,
a member of this party, of the majority party, when
they have the ability and the power. I'm the majority.
They're doing absolutely nothing for the American people.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
If you are elected to Congress, what will happen for
people in your district?

Speaker 4 (31:58):
You know, my parents were both union workers. My dad
was at IBW and I was in UFCW. And I
want to make sure that we are we're creating jobs.
This is like this is about both supporting businesses that
are job creators then making sure the jobs that we
we have have great wages and great benefits. Then you
can do both. It's what I've done in the legislature.

(32:20):
This is investing in you know, in the American dream
is about the opportunity that exists and enabling people to
have opportunities to work really hard to be able to
earn things. That's what my parents had. Those opportunities are
harder and harder every single year. They're harder when you
have people like Baking that vote against middle class tax
cuts or won't support you know, things like the Proact,

(32:40):
when they vote against health insurance and health costs being lowered,
that's not growing the middle class. I actually want to
support both businesses and workers. And that's the difference maker here.
That's what we're hearing, and that's what I think is
at stake, and you know, so that's why I think
back to my family a lot. I think back to
what really matters. What will be different is and you
get actually members that are from the middle class and

(33:04):
working families in Congress that represent this country, then it's
not a talking point. It's about actually getting results on
behalf people, you know, and as one of the few
members right now of some of the most competitive seats,
it's a former union member, one of the few that
has grew up in poverty, one of the few that's
a first generation college graduate. I know what working families

(33:24):
are going through, and that's why I'm going to fight
for them.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Senator of Augus State Senator of August soon to be congressman.
So after we stopped recording, I said, you know, the
mood in the Cella Corridor is very sour, and people
are worried that everyone has forgotten about Trump and how
unmanageable it was, and that people are mad at Biden
for inflation. And you actually said no, so tell us

(33:49):
what you are seeing.

Speaker 4 (33:51):
You know, what we're seeing is people are frustrated, but
the frustration is coming from wanting to see something different,
and we're seeing that in how people are investing in
our You know, we have raised a record amount of
funds and donations to our campaign. We raised more than
two point five million dollars so far. This is more
than any Democrat or Republican challenger has ever raised in

(34:11):
this in this race, and it's coming from Republicans and
Democrats and Independence hosting events, volunteering, donating, using their time.
And it's because they're taking that anger, they're taking the frustration,
and they're putting it into action, you know. So the
hope is really high. I don't think it's a bad
thing that people are frustrated, frustration what we're seeing on
the ground in this district and leading people to say,

(34:33):
I'm not going to stand by and let democracy be
undermined by people like Bacon and let them sell it
out to Trump. We're going to stand up and we're
going to stand for something different, and in a place
like Nebraska. It is no more brighter than a place
like Nebraska. And that's that's why we're up with the pulse.
That's why we're seeing the ground game, tens of thousands
of doors knocked, that's why we're seeing our holes being

(34:54):
up by three forty six to forty three. It's what
we're seeing on our record fundraising. And so there's brightness
every frustration, and we're taking that and we're going to
win this November amazing.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Thank you, thank you very very much for taking the time.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Frank Bruney is the author of the brune letter at
The New York Times and the new book The Aide
of Grievance.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Welcome back to Fast Politics.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Frank, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
I'm very excited to have you.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
You've written a ton of books, but this book, it's
an interesting boocause I think of it as a spiritual
experience with your health a little bit, if that's fair,
with losing some of your vision, and so I feel
like this book is spiritual in a similar way.

Speaker 6 (35:44):
It's interesting. I think it is connected to what happened
to me personally in the sense that I had to
learn when I had my medical episode or deal odyssey,
whatever you want to call it, you know, to learn
certain habits of mind in which I did not fall
into the traps of self pity. And I tried to
take the law view. And that's kind of what I'm
asking America to do.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
In the book.

Speaker 6 (36:03):
So I think that's an accurate read. Molly, thank you anytime.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, you know, I got sober when I was nineteen,
and I talk about it all the time because I
want people to know that they can get sober as
teenagers and stop the familial legacy of alcoholism and not
that many people do. I think that if they knew
that you could do it, it would help. I am
a person who thinks a lot about what is self pity?

Speaker 6 (36:27):
Mean?

Speaker 2 (36:27):
What is grievance?

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Me?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
You know, these are the things I think.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
But as a sober person who is in alcoholics anonymous,
and everyone knows this about me because I think it's
more helpful for me to say it than not. And
I've been sober twenty six years. I spend a lot
of time thinking about self pity and grievance and all
of the things that you're talking about, because that you know,
in order to stay sober, I have to address these things.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
So this hits me right where I live.

Speaker 5 (36:55):
Interesting. Interesting.

Speaker 6 (36:56):
I'm glad to hear that. I'm also glad to hear
that your journey has been what it is and that
you're in such a healthy place.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like very lucky, and I
think that there's some element of spirituality there for sure.
So explain to us what the sort of central thesis
here is.

Speaker 6 (37:11):
This book explores what I believe is a dysfunction in
the country right now, which is that too many Americans,
I would say an overwhelming majority of them they enter
the political readA, they enter all political discussions from the
standpoint of.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
How have I been wronged? Who has wronged me? How
do I take revenge on the people who've wronged me?

Speaker 6 (37:29):
I mean, you see this in the messaging and the
approaches that political candidates take. You see this in our
culture war battles. Everyone is so fascinated by and mired
in their estimation of how they've been wronged in American life.
And while there are grave, grave wrongs in American life

(37:50):
that we need to examine and we need to address,
and we need to improve, we are doing such a
scary job right now of mingling righteous causes and petty pints,
of taking everything that happens to defcon one, having discussions
about issues in which each side gets so quickly and
spectacularly overwrought that there's absolutely no chance for common ground

(38:15):
or for progress.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
That's what the book is about.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Righteous causes and petty defeats us A great line. I
think I got it wrong, But first I want you
to talk through like I can see this on the
Trump side for sure, that's easy. Where else are you
seeing this? I mean, I want to be open to
you know, if you're seeing this in other places.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I mean, I certainly can see it.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
There are some lefties I can see, but it does
not strike me as like.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
A Joe Biden problem.

Speaker 6 (38:41):
Particularly well, I don't think it's much of a Joe
Biden problem. And I think one of the hopeful details
here is that he was elected in twenty twenty, that
he won the Democratic primary. And I think he won
the Democratic primary in part because he is not someone
who exists in the realm and with the psychology that
I was just describing. This is really tough to write
and talk about because I think overwrought grievance exists across

(39:04):
the political spectrum. I think this habit of you know,
let me begin the discussion with telling you how I've
been wronged and what I'm ow I think. I think
that is hand partisan, super partisan. I don't know that
we have the right term for it. But this is
difficult to talk and write about because I am not
making a false equivalence. The most dangerous versions of this,

(39:24):
the more pervasive. This exists in a much more pervasive
fashion and a much more dangerous fashion on the right.
It is on the far right that we have organized
political violence.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
It is on the.

Speaker 6 (39:33):
Right that we have this broad election denialism. You can't
have a country if you don't believe in the attack
and the integrity of the systems and the institutions and
the democracy.

Speaker 5 (39:44):
So I am not in any.

Speaker 6 (39:45):
Measure saying the left and the right need to look
equally at this, but they both do need to look
at it.

Speaker 5 (39:50):
And where do you see it on the left?

Speaker 6 (39:52):
I mean, we could pick any number of news events
or moments when something happens, and if you are a
social justice warrior whose cause is racism, you see white
supremacy and racism and what happened, whether it's there or not.
Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not.

Speaker 5 (40:06):
But this is your brand, this is your lens.

Speaker 6 (40:08):
This is what you trot out in every situation, and
it is an impediment to healthy constructive conversation. I'll give you,
like just a random example from what was it two
years ago?

Speaker 5 (40:18):
Three years ago?

Speaker 6 (40:19):
I mean, remember when horrifyingly Britney Grider was jailed in
Russia right on trunked up, ridiculous charges. You could see
on Twitter and you could see written in some columns
the claim that she was rotting in this jail cell
and she was forgotten and nobody cared, and nobody was
attending to it because she was a woman, because she
was a lesbian, and because she was black. Right, Brittany

(40:40):
Grider got more attention and from the highest levels of government,
and rightly so, she got more attention than other political prisoners.
Then a political prisoner, a man I forget his name
right now, it's in the book, who've been falsely in
prisoned for years. So that was a ridiculous, grievance driven
complaint that gives people who don't care as much as

(41:01):
they should about real examples of racism, of which there
are plenty, real examples of homophobia, of which there are plenty,
real examples of misogyny, of which.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
They are plenty.

Speaker 6 (41:10):
It gives them a reason to turn away and turn
the whole thing off, because they can say, you're being ridiculous,
that's not true. We need to check that kind of
behavior because it undermines important social progress.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
What I hear from you is that this grievance culture
undermines the sort of larger fabric of America.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I think about this a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Because I have on my desk two things that my
a sponsor told me to have because they are like
my character defects because I had sort of coping mechanisms
that were.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
Bad and so I have or just not helpful.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
So I have a don't be a brat explanation point,
and do I think I'm too good for something? Right?
And these are these general ideas of how important humility is.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Right, that is the sort of solve for all of this.

Speaker 6 (41:59):
Right, I agree with you more In fact, as you know,
the last chapter of the book is entirely about humility.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
Is the antidoteal grievance.

Speaker 6 (42:05):
And what I mean by that and what you mean
by it with you just said is we're not talking
about being theatrically or unduly self effacing. But it is
so important if this country is to survive, if our
communities are going to thrive, it is so important to
see yourself as a part of a larger goal. It's
so important to see you. I think you just use
the word fabric, which is a terrific, terrific word. We

(42:27):
are all threads in a tapestry, threads in a fabric,
and when we get unduly obsessed with the contours, had
every last detail of our own disappointment. When we demand
that the world inform entirely to our liking. When we
jumble heady complaints with righteous causes, we're being really unhumble
and we're jeopardizing something that's going to matter more to

(42:50):
our contentment than any momentary whim, which is the collective good.

Speaker 5 (42:54):
Whatever happened to the collective good? You know?

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Well, that is that you know, what can you do
for your country? So I want to talk about my
obsession now, which is the reason why I will never
be elected president, among other things, and also never running.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
But is that I really truly believe it. And they've
started this Climate Core. I'm very excited.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
I'm probably the only person who's excited about this, But
I really want there to be a year of national
service in America mandatory for everyone. And it can be
anything from teach for America to cleaning up our national
parks to climate stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I just think that it would be.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
The thing that would get you know, if you're rich,
you're poor, you're black, you're white, you're from the South,
you're from the north, you would have an experience, you
could go anywhere you wanted, you would work with these other,
you know, eighteen year olds. It would be a sort
of mandatory year of just work, and you would be
an American like all other Americans, and class and race

(43:58):
and wealth would have nothing to do with that.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
I salute that idea.

Speaker 6 (44:03):
I'd want to push back at the mandatory part, but
let's come to that in a second. But I promote
the idea of national service of the book. I mention
that prominent political candidates have made that a big part
of their platforms. It was something Pete Footage Edge emphasized
a lot in his twenty twenty campaign.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
It made all the Libertarians so mad.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
Well, it shouldn't make them mad.

Speaker 6 (44:21):
I mean, you described one of the reasons it's so
important very well when you talked about diverse backgrounds. There
are increasingly few avenues of places in American life where
people of different education levels, people of different class backgrounds,
people of different races, where there's real.

Speaker 5 (44:39):
Real diverse mangling.

Speaker 6 (44:40):
More and more we live on homogeneous communities, We travel
online in completely tiny clicks. We need to find ways
to make people who otherwise wouldn't interact interact, because the
only way that you don't end up seeing your fellow
Americans in caricature is if you understand them better and
meet them face to face and SA time with them.

(45:00):
I don't think we could do national service mandatory. I
think the pushback would be so severe that would never happen.
But I don't think we need to because I think
there are ways to build in rewards and incentives that
we get enough people to do it that it becomes
a kind of vote, and people are almost ashamed not
to do it. And I think we could turn it
into something of a custom without making it mandatory.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I would love that so much, because I just think
that part of the problem.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
I mean this idea when we talk about grievance, there's
a feeling that other people and you write about this
so well with this stuff about Americans, and you know,
they're fantasy that somehow China everybody has it better, and
there's this feeling that other people have it better. We
talk a lot about this idea, and again, like the

(45:48):
Trump is that Trump sort of ran on this idea
that he would give white men back what they felt
had been taken from them by someone else. Now, obviously
none of that was true, but people were so removed
from each other they couldn't see it.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 6 (46:04):
They don't have any sense that the people who you know.
When Trump is demonizing a population, when other Republican candidates
are demonizing a population, or if Democratic candidates do it
with a different group, no one knows to say, wait,
that doesn't ring true because I know someone like that,
and that's caricature, that's silly. We can't push back at
it because our lives don't bring us into contact with

(46:24):
those people. There are too few crossed paths, and social
media aggravates this so insidiously because so many people are
projecting these perfect, potentic in lives on social media that
make everyone else feel like, well, why is everybody else
always at a wedding with a champagne flute raised to
the sun's setting. Where's my champagne and my son set

(46:45):
in my wedding? Well, you're seeing the best day of
their year. You're not seeing two nights later when they're
crime because they had a horrible day at work and
they just had a fight with their lover and they're
alone in bed. No one's putting that on Instagram. But
that's life too. I mean, we need to understand that
whatever frustrations and pains we're experiencing, they're probably much much

(47:05):
more universal than exception.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
When it comes to social media. I have two large
thoughts that I want you to sort of talk to
me about. One is this idea we don't know how
the algorithms work, and we don't know what algorithms are
being used, so we don't know how our content is
being farmed to us.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Isn't that part of the problem.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
I think it is part of the problem, and there
have been calls for transparency in that regard.

Speaker 5 (47:31):
There are people who listen.

Speaker 6 (47:33):
There's a whole lot of regulation of social media companies
that hasn't happened because of the kind of odd wild
West spirit in which the Internet was born. And among
the calls for regulation in some quarters are calls for
transparency of algorithms so that we can understand better how
we're being manipulated. I think it might be enough just

(47:53):
for us to understand that we're being manipulated to talk
more about it. I believe in classrooms from a very
early age, people need to be made aware of what
happens to them in their online lives about how one
set of decisions breeds and other set of decisions, because
they don't necessarily want that to happen, and awareness is
a big part of the problem. Like when I pause
with students, I do this no matter the class, every semester,

(48:16):
when I say, like, how much intention did you put
into the people you follow on whatever your platforms of
choice are, How much intention did you put into the
things that are bookmarked? How much intention do you put
into what you click on when it comes to you?
And that is that the kind of information diet, is
that the education, the kind of exposure that you meant

(48:38):
to have. We could go a long way from you
just get everybody to pause to think about how the
algorithms have distorted what they're seeing to reconfigure their online
lives to something that matches what their real goals are.
That's more than a baby's step in the right direction,
and that has not been taken, and that I think
is in large parts the responsibility for that on educators,

(49:01):
public servants having a discussion.

Speaker 5 (49:03):
That we have not been having with the people around us.
With the students in particular, you teach.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
These amazing duke students.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
You're sort of in the field with these college students,
So what are you seeing from them?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
And does it make you hopeful?

Speaker 6 (49:17):
It makes me more hopeful than not. I mean, I
see some stuff that encourages me, I see some stuff
that discourages me. I'll start with what discourages me really quickly,
and then I'll go to what encourages me. What discourages
me is I think, and I think this is a
sane take on the world. I think they feel that
they live at a time and in a country where
economically speaking, the margin for error is really slim. They

(49:38):
have not been raised and again, this is a sane
This is the sane response for them to have in
a sane perspective.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
They have not been.

Speaker 6 (49:45):
Raised in such a fashion where they see this country
as one of guaranteed bounty and better tomorrows.

Speaker 5 (49:52):
You know, I will outpace my parents.

Speaker 6 (49:54):
I will live the American dream of continued and further
assent up to social ladder. So they feel a sort
of anxiety and caution about their futures that I think
is discouraging to see, but is an understandable response.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Don't you think that's a little bit good, like that
they don't have that entitlement, because I think of that
entitlement as so bad for working hard and connecting with people.
And you know that I feel like that is sort
of the worst way you can be. But tell me
I'm wrong, or if I am wrong.

Speaker 6 (50:26):
You're not wrong. But I think it's a little bit
more complicated than that. I think it's sad because it
tramples on and diminishes the measure of optimism in their lives.
I think optimism is so key to making things better,
kind of reaching for unattained goals. So I think it's complicated,
But I will tell you they're very earnest.

Speaker 5 (50:43):
Ernest isn't the right work.

Speaker 6 (50:44):
That sounds like a little bit of a diss that
sounds Pollyanna esque, But it's good to be well. They
want the world to be a better place. They're sensitive, too,
sometimes over sensitive to matters of injustice. They care about
those things in a very genuine way. Word inclusion or inclusiveness.
It's become a kind of cant or rgo and and

(51:05):
I think people just let it wash over them. But inclusion, inclusiveness,
these are important things. And I think the students I
teach their generation care more genuinely and expansively about that
the previous generations did, and I think will be the
beneficiarias of that.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
So interesting, so important. I hope you will come back.

Speaker 6 (51:24):
I would be delighted too, and I thank you for
having me on the show.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
The moment, do you have a moment of fuckery?

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I do have a moment of fuckery. And then my
moment of fuckery is all of these quasi anti Trump
conservative foreign policy hawks that are very pro BB and
pro Israel, but that have, to their credit, you know,
criticized Trump and said they're anti Trump there at commentary magazine,
National Review and at these at these types of places.

(51:58):
So some of them are still at Fox and binding
out after. Let's just be honest. Biden's been pretty damn
stalwart with BB for seven months.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Perhaps way too much. Yes, many people are saying.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
In the face of criticism from his left flank, in
the face of criticism from other world leaders and other allies,
and he said that Israel is our ally, they were attacked,
they're holding our hostages. We need to stick with them.
I get that, you know, we can quibble about the details.
So then one day, finally seven months into this, when
BB is planning an invasion that has no real plan

(52:29):
for success. The plan is just basically, we're going to
kill a bunch of people and like, we'll see where
the chips fall, like that's basically the plan. All Biden
says say is, you know, we're not going to give
you these big ass bombs to kill as many people
as possible. All Right, We're still gonna help you with
defensive stuff. We're still helping with intelligence. It's just if
you go ahead with this like this is now a
step too far, which puts him again as like one
of the still one of the closest allies are you

(52:51):
compared to what the other European countries are saying about it?
And now these assholes are out there. This guy Cliff Assnus,
who's a big donor to was a big Nick Galy donor,
is tweeting yesterday hashtag Trump twenty twenty four, Biden betrayal,
Biden abandoning Israel. It's just like be a grown up,
like you guys are just as bad, if not worse

(53:12):
than the like eighteen year olds who are like I
won't vote for genocide Joe, I'm going to vote for
Cornell West. It's like be a grown up. Being a
grown up means sometimes you don't get everything you want,
and sometimes there are two choices, whether or not you
don't find them both perfect. But you've got to decide
which one is better and which one is more responsible.
That's a grown up thing to do, and in this case,
it's obviously Joe Biden that is the right choice. And

(53:35):
these guys know it, they know the threat to Trump,
but they're babies and they're not getting everything they want
on their one issue of Israel, and so now they're
lashing out and they're putting on the red maga hat.
Fuck you, fuck you.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Wow, good for you, Tim Miller.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
My moment of buckery is Susan necklace slut shamings Stormy Daniels.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Yeah, amen to that too.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
I mean, it's just disgusting.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
You know, the fact that the men on the defense
have used her in this way is disgusting. The fact
that she is sledshaming this woman who you know, Stormy
has perhaps made some money off of this, but ultimately,
I'm sure she would rather not as both of us
as recipients of death threats. I'm sure she would rather

(54:19):
just be normal. And I just feel like it's a
terrible look. And every time things like this happen, as
we are both parents of daughters and it's just discussing,
and it gets me really upset.

Speaker 5 (54:31):
It's gross.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Thank you. We're totally lyned on that one. Yeah, screw
her too, now literally.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Take you, Tip Miller.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds
in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you
enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.