January 4, 2021 • 38 mins
The families of JD Hudson and Chicken Man share memorable stories about these incredible men.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From I Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night.
I'm Jeff keating where I'm gonna lay down? My birdens
where down. When I first met Chicken Man back in
two thousand and three, he was actually Reverend Gordon Williams.
(00:24):
He greeted me at his church and we had our
first interview together. After a few years, we'd become close friends.
We broke bread together, we watched movies together. We talked
about our family together, and he ended up counseling my
life as well. I also got to know his family,
his wife Dolores, his son Gordon Williams Jr. And his
(00:49):
two daughters, Camilla and Barjona. Here I am with Dolores
as we talked about the first time she met Gordon Williams. Uh.
I was working in the salon doing Better Do first
year right. So Golden came in and told the receptionist
(01:12):
that he had an appointment with me, and so I
heard him and I turned around and looked, I said,
you know, like and he it was like he just
felt me when I said that, because I'm looking kind
of strange. At the time, I was trying not to
do me in hair, you know, I was busy, and
but and then he turned he said, yes, my appointment
is with Delores. He came, he said, and I began
(01:34):
to notice him, which was really strange for me because
I was busy, and guys come in all the time
and try to be at you and all that, but
I wouldn't really, you know, for all at it that
particular time. But there were things that I began to
notice about it. The way he was dressed. I mean,
he he was just immaculate, and he was the colors
were right, and it wasn't too much, it was just enough.
(01:57):
He was just he was just on it. So he
over what he wanted and I cut his hair, and
it just so happened that now I got two assistants,
but both of them were busy at the time when
it was start for him to get his hair shampoo.
So who has left to shampoo his hair? But man,
so I took it, you know, to shampoo bowl and
then I really could check it out. But she and uh,
(02:22):
and so when I finished with him, and he you know,
came back to the chair and he says, I really
enjoyed my shampoo and everything. He says, I would love
to make another appointment with the afterway you can and
you get really go out to do shop, take the
appointment for you know, right back that so, uh that's
how we met. You know, he started asking me to
(02:42):
go after Benner and all that, but I resisted it
for a long time, but because the fact that I
knew he was with somebody, you know, and uh so
I didn't want to get into all of that. But
he wouldn't. He wouldn't give up. Yeah, he wouldn't give
up on it. So tell me about the early years
of Dolores and partying and your heyday. What was that like?
It was? It was amazing, Like I said, immediately when
(03:07):
I opened the salon, it was so popular and so
anybody was to come to town, all of the new
people they would want to come there. And uh so
it was we worked hard and we're parded hard. So
at what point, you know, when you guys are dating,
like who starts to lean into you know, Jesus and
(03:28):
the Lord first is it? You? Are you doing it? Okay? Okay,
So tell me about kind of what led you down
that path and then how you kind of pulled Gordon
in with you. Okay, Well, you know, after after a
while I knew that he cared for me, I really did.
I knew he cared for me, but he had so
much going on in his life, so he was going
back and forth, you know, when his business and all that.
(03:50):
But it got to the point where he would when
he was in town, he was going to make sure
he came back to Salon. And he finally convinced me
to go out with him, and I did in it.
And he was such a gentleman. I mean, he would
make you love it, you know, he would really do that.
He was free high at he was a gentleman, and
he would take it to the best of places, and
(04:12):
and to see a man with his capabilities and his
personality and everything, he could easily fall in love with him.
And so that's what happened. And then then after we
were together for a while, he came my hand and
brought me to this house. And I've been in here since,
you know, like the kids were saying, well, they came later,
but we had gone through quite a few things and
(04:34):
breaking up, and and with me getting saved and everything,
you know, I got saved changed my life. So now
at some point you're married and you've got two young girls. Okay,
got you, And so tell me a little bit about finally,
you know, because again this is a long process where
Gordon realizes, Hey, if I'm gonna be with this lady
and these two young girls, I got to give up
this life. So tell me tell me how that happens.
(04:56):
And like, were you around for the thing where he
owed like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yeah, that was
a scary time. Okay, so tell me tell me that's
important because this is a story that he tells. And
so tell me about what was going on and how
you were feeling and how he was handling all that,
because that was I mean, that's that's close to death situation.
Well at this particular time, um, you know, it was
(05:17):
still the thing of him, you know, going back and forth.
He was working, you know, kind of what he was
doing and uh, but it was just getting you know,
the people that he was dealing with and could just
tell that things were and then I was able to
see these things, you know, so I would be finding
the one in advance, even though I wasn't with him
all the time, but I said, you know this and
(05:38):
that and that. So anyway, anyway, they tricked in and
uh ended up putting them in a bad situation. So
he was focusing a lot on getting that together, which
was the rightest thing to do, you know. And uh,
but at the meantime he ended up he had a
bullet that had been in his leg for a long time.
(05:59):
And why this thing? What was that? From the war?
From the streets? No, well, no, from the streets. He
got shot. So how did that happen? I think a
friend of here is something they were either together and
they got somebody got mad, and but at the time,
(06:20):
they were, you know, doing what they do. And so
he gets shot. He's got a bullet in his leg. Yeah,
I got a bullet in his leg. And he went
to the hospital for it, but he wouldn't even stay
that long enough for them to get it out, you know,
he just felt just left with it. Now this was
before I met him, Now, yes, I understand. And uh.
And so he left with the bullet in his leg,
(06:40):
and I guess he felt that he was all right,
So he never saw about it. But at this particular
time when he's down there, he's done a lot of
stress because they're trying to settle this thing, trying to
find this these people that stole all the stuff and
they ended up the bullet popped out of his leg. Yeah,
he was bleeding. So he ended up in the hospital.
(07:01):
Oh my goodness. And when he went to the hospital
where they will be kept him there and they cleaned
him up and all that kind of stuff, and he stays.
So that's when he said for me to come down there,
because can you know? And so I went. And when
you sit down there, do you mean to Miami? Yeah, okay,
got you go ahead. But he came out and you know,
and it was just such a a terrible pan. You know,
(07:23):
most of the time when you're in the life of crime, tolors,
it's very hard to get out. It is. When Gordon
is dealing with a high level situation, a lot of
money that he owes for drugs, that's just what it was.
He's got something that stole it from him. And more importantly,
they're giving him this ultimatum and he talks about this,
bring me this guy's head in a paper bag, and
everything's okay. And Gordon isn't a murderer, so he's like saying, listen, exactly,
(07:47):
I got it. So now he's got to clear to
this debt, So he's got to sell more drugs to
clear this debt. But normally after you do that, it's
so hard to get out. So finally he pays his debt,
but how does he get out of this life? I'm
glad that you brought it to the memory. When we
came home. Then he began to all the contacts or
whatever he had to to get rid of stuff. This
(08:10):
is what he began to do. So when when he
got the money all that he needed to pay, then
I remember I drove that rode down with him, when
rode down to Miami and he went, he met with
them and he paid them and uh and they would saying,
oh good. Then yeah, this is that, you know, like
they were so happy to know what else we could
(08:31):
we can do. He turned around and put his hand
on his button, said you can kiss. In other words,
he was through. He was through with it, and he
did not look back. So what you're telling me is
after he pays that off and he's like kiss my,
you know what, he literally is been able to cut
it all off. He did. Here I am with Gordon
(08:57):
Williams Jr. As he talks about how his father's lifestyle
affected him as he grew older. At the time, I'm
taking his place. So I'm selling kilos like crazy sins
of the father. Yeah, I'm following up my dad's footsteps.
Then I get busted in Henry County and it's one
(09:18):
of the largest drug busts in Henry County on record.
It was a guy who was driving for me, but
he got caught with twenty nine kilos and he told
him it was mine. So they picked me up and
charged me with conspiracy. So that was kind of like
the catalyst for my dad because it really hurt him
because now the fans got me. When the Fetz get you,
the Fez got you. I started off in Georgia Penitentiary.
(09:38):
How long did you have to serve? Ten years, six
months and twenty one days. That's a real deal right there. Yeah. Yeah,
So that that really hurt my dad, you know, because
I'm his I'm his firstborn, and for me to follow
in his footsteps and to fall like that changed his
whole world. And he came to court in my defense.
(10:00):
I was sending on my birthday, September the ninth. Prior
to that, he had stopped using. But tell me get
to the court. He's clean. He's clean, he's clean. The
judges sentenced me. Just happened to go to school with
my mom, so he knows about you. So he knows
about Yeah, he knows about me, and he knows about
my dad. So they asked, do anybody want to say
(10:23):
anything before they passed sentison, And my dad gets up
and says, your I like to speak on my son's
behalf and tell you that he's not bad and he
needs a second chance, and if you allow him the
second chance, you do right by you. And he said,
I throw myself on the merger of the court that
please don't sentence him, because they were asking for a
(10:46):
lot of time for me. They was asking for there
was asked to life. He told my dad, Mr Willien,
gona take everything in consideration, and I'm gonna send us
your son underneath the guidelines because the guidelines are called
for out of life. I'm gonna give him fifteen years.
And he gave me fifteen and I serve teen on it.
I was in Atlanta waiting to move and they had
(11:09):
a press service down it for the inmates, and they said,
anybody want to go to press service? I said, yeah,
you know, I go over there, and when I went
down to press service, I guess it was there. Your father,
my dad. He was running the outreach prison ministries for inmates.
And when he saw me, because I didn't know he
was coming, and I didn't know he was you know,
(11:31):
I didn't know he was gonna be there, and when
I went in, he's you know, he just he started crying.
You know, you're like God, let him man. Then he
started getting closer and closer to to the Lord and
he started, you know, started really confessing his sins and
started his life started changing. And then that's when he
opened up the Church International Ministries two thousand. Did he
(11:55):
did he ultimately get ordained? Yeah? Yeah, he's an ordained minister.
He was a ordained minister. When he died. He went
to theologically he went to more House over there, and
I was like, wow, what a turnaround from a drug
dealer to a reverend. And he said, yeah, you know,
I opened up my own church and minister. I said, really, okay, cool.
When I got out, I got out August the thirty,
(12:17):
two thousand and six, So when I got out, I
went to the church. So he wanted me to minister
to the younger guys in the congregation because they didn't
understand what it was like, you know, to to be
out here and selling drugs and doing wrong. He said,
you can give them a message that dad listen to
(12:39):
because you experienced it. Because my dad never defereral time.
He never went to prison for as long as I did.
So he said that I had something to offer. So
and I started, you know, I started, uh ministering to
the to the young, to the younger groups there. And
it was strange seeing my dad transfer for him like that.
(13:02):
That was a really strange transformation I witnessed because part
of me leaving he was, you know, I mean chicken man,
you know, and when you came out, he was what
Reben Williams. He was Reverend Williams when I came on.
He had let that that old name die. I mean,
but you can't get rid of it. I said, you're
gonna be Chicken Man for life. I don't care. I mean,
(13:22):
that's what people don't know you. And people people was
questioning whether his faith was real or not because they
just didn't want to believe it because they knew him
prior to meet this man afterwards, and he's talking about
worshiping God and praying and healing, and it just it
(13:44):
didn't set well. What a lot of people. When did
you know that the transformation was real? Well, him and
Dolores stopped using drugs when they gave their life to Christ.
I knew it was real. My name was real. I
(14:08):
also stayed in touch with j. D. Hudson over the years,
and I was shocked to learn about an incredible event
that happened to him, but not surprised by the outcome.
I connected with his daughter, Renee, as she told me
about who j D was as a father and what
it was like being the daughter of a policeman the
(14:31):
time that I was in high school. My father at
that time was a school detective and what does that mean?
And where was that? Back then, all the schools had
cops assigned to the school, so if they had problem
kids or whatever, if there was some kind of Rucka's
going on or whatever, they were assigned to certain high schools.
(14:52):
And my father was assigned to high school that I
went to. Do you think, okay, Renee, you think he
did that? Imagine? Yeah, do you think he did that
for a reason? I don't know. I think I know
your dad oh god, it was just you know, and everybody.
So I didn't have a whole lot of friends. Of course,
not you got this cop. That is so now maybe
(15:14):
some girlfriends that didn't want to you know that were Yeah,
it was straight lacewere. But no guys are going to
be like that's true. That's true. Oh my goodness, that's
that is a that is a j D move. If
I've ever my God, tell me a little bit about
your father. What kind of dad was he? What do
you remember about him growing up? What were some things
that you remember of being the daughter of J. D. Hudson.
(15:37):
I love my father. I thought he was He was
a good dad. He was a hard worker. He'd worked
a lot, you know, excellent provider. Oh. He loved holidays.
He loved Christmas. His favorite color was blue. So I
love Christmas too, But everything was blue. We had blue lights,
(16:00):
had a red blue wreathe, We had blue bulbs, We
had blue tints along the Christmas tree. And so I said,
when I grew up, I'm never having anything blue because
he loved blue. But he loved the holidays. He loved Christmas. Uh,
he loved wrapping gifts. He and my uncle they would
(16:22):
play on my brother's toys before my brother and I
would wake up for Christmas. He would always take us
on vacation Bangazne. Things were segregated. He loved to go
to Jackal Island and there was a black side of
Jackal Island and a white side of Jackal Island. We
you know, drive to Florida. There were a lot of
places we couldn't stop. I remember once we stopped somewhere
(16:46):
and we got gas, and the guy came out and
called my father the N word, and so my daddy
told him, you siphon all this gas out of my car.
That's when I kind of realized the world was not
the same everywhere, you know, because I had been so
(17:08):
insulated because in the area that I lived and it
was all black. He just always taught me to be
kind to everyone, you know, not to hate. He wanted
me to do well in school. I think he was
a pretty nice dad. The only thing about being my
father's daughter was that it prevented me from having a
(17:29):
lot of friends. A lot of people wouldn't come over
because my dad, you know, he started out being a cop,
you know, and then when he was over the beer
of corrections, oh my god, you know, and so people
shied away from me. It was different from my brother. Now,
my brother that was a different story. But for me,
oh my goodness, you know, I would said I love daddy,
(17:50):
but godly, I wish he wasn't a cop. Walk me
through where you were or when you heard about when
the guys tried to take the Cadillac from your dad's garage.
I was in Conyers and I drove over here and
by the time I got here to the house, they
had taken my father to the hospital. So then I
(18:13):
drive to Grady and I'm frantic, and I asked them,
I'm trying to find the gentleman that got shot and
it was just brought in by the ambulance. And they said,
there are two people that just got shot. I said,
what are you talking about? She said, there are two
people on whatever floor or an emergency their side by side.
(18:38):
You want the young man or the older man. And
so I said, what do you mean there are two people?
So I said, you need to tell the cops. If
there are two people that got shot, more than likely
that person that's sitting next this land it to my dad.
It's a person that shot him. They said, oh, ma'am.
So I ran to my father and I said, oh
my god. And do you know the man that shot
(18:59):
my daddy was right next door. And when he heard
me tell him the nurses you need to find that
guy because she shot my dad, he ran out of
the hospital. Well they caught the guy, you know that, right, Yeah? Okay?
And then there was two daddy, uh, and they and
they had a trial, but Daddy didn't tell me anything.
They didn't go because I wanted to go, but that
(19:20):
I don't know. I don't know. And so by the
time I found that they had already had a trial.
And did you know that there was two people that
were shot. One was killed. Yeah. See, this is the
mistake that Daddy made. Daddy was in his Cadillac. My
brother believed it was an intentional hit on my dad,
and so Daddy drove into the driveway and he made
the cardinal mistake of not letting the garage door down.
(19:44):
So he was sitting in the car with the radio on,
smoking a cigar, and these two guys with masks, which
is strange, came up, one to the left and one
to the right. Both cars were in the garage. And
you've been over here before, so you know, it's not
that much space between the wall and the and the
(20:05):
car parked and the other side, because Mama's car was
on the Ryan side. And they pointed the gun at
my dad. Old man get out of the car, and
Daddy just happened to have his service revolver and you
know how to have this whole pocket on the door,
on the left side of the door in the drippings back.
So that's when he pulled that gun up and he
(20:26):
shot him, and then he got the car and shot
the other one. And so then Daddy and Mama had
just come from abroad. Somebody had just dropped her off.
She just walked in the door and she was taking
her clothes off, and she she hurried the gunshot. She
came to the door with an underwear on. He told
her get back in the house, and she closed the
(20:48):
door and called the police, called the nine one one.
So the guy runs out, he shoots one guy and
then one guy falls down. I think he died. He
at him and he failed right before he got to
Cascade Road, so you can got as far as he
could the beach triss and fell over on the ground.
(21:09):
So I think that's the one that died. How was
your dad's recovery? The gunshots, they didn't hit any Organs,
but I believe they pausing them to his system, and
I think that was the reason that daddy died. He
was a tough man, your dad. Yeah, I think I
think he got shot. I think he had four gun shots,
three or four hun Remember he was definitely shot a
(21:30):
few times. I remember that. I still have the article.
Any closing words you want to say about J. D. Hudson,
I love him dearly. I think it was an excellent
role model. Um. It was wonderful being his daughter. Uh.
(21:53):
He was very and affectionate, kind man. Um. And every
Christmas I think about him because he really really loved Christmas.
I didn't have a lot of boyfriends, a lot of
christ but my daddy always gave me something for Valentine's Days.
(22:14):
You aways made sure I had a heart shaped think
of candy. You know, when there just a little things
like that. You know. He was just such a It
was a nice daddy. He was so affectionate and so thoughtful,
and I just missed. Here I am with Gordon's oldest daughter,
(22:47):
Camilla as she reflects on who he was as a father.
Growing up with Gordon Williams as a father, I think
one thing that sticks out to me is just the
excitement of knowing when he was coming home. He had
a signature whistle that he did. I can't whistle, but
(23:08):
it always said whoooo. That was his way of letting
us know that he was in the house. And I
just remember anytime I heard that whistle, I just got
so excited. He was very kind and loving. He trusted
us in a weird way, you know, even as children,
to make good decisions. He had a way of guiding
you without you know, dictating. He wanted you to to
(23:30):
learn and live your life, but he was always there
to drop those jewels of wisdom. You know. One thing
I always noticed that a lot of people always loved
him to um that he was loved by a lot
of people. You know, even we were at gas stations
or just random places that I didn't even know that
people would know who he was. Um, somebody would come
(23:51):
up and give him a handshake or a hug, or
just have something good to say about him. And what
do you remember him in your early years being a
referend and to community and affiliation with the church. I
remember him younger being more involved in the prison ministry.
I remember admiring his love for working with the prisoners.
And I do remember like events they would have at
(24:13):
the church at Saleman. I remember one event in particular,
like a bunch of prisoners were able to come to
the church during the service, and I remember him, you know,
being involved in that, and I was just thinking, Wow,
this is really dope, you know, for this to be happening.
So things like that. I definitely admired with him in
the church. He was I didn't really hear him speak
(24:34):
a lot growing up. I just saw more of his
actions being done. Tell me a little bit or some
of the memories that you remember, either maybe between you
and your dad or family members or trip. But what's
a one or two things that stands out. What sticks
out with me. Um was in his elder years when
he was having a bouts of like dementia. One of
(24:55):
the things was I used to like to put him
in the car and put and Osley brothers for the
love of you, and he would kind of just be present,
you know somehow it made him if he was having
issues remembering or you know, sometimes that would really frustrate him,
and he might be in a not one of his
(25:15):
best moves because he wanted to be, you know, fully
strong mentally and physically. But I remember when he would
kind of just be able to sit back in the
car and I remember just riding ask him where you
want to go, eat what he feels like eating, and
you know, being able to take him out to eat,
roll the windows down and just put on some Osley
Brothers and he would just be present, you know, be
(25:38):
there in the moment. And that brought me a lot
of joy. And this is Gordon's youngest daughter, Barjona, with
her insights on her father. He was just really kind
and uh wise father Like I don't remember him yelling
at me or being kind of a suplinarian. It was
(26:01):
more so if he wanted me to do something, he
kind of just told me and he could, you know,
he just had a way with words or he could
make you understand what he meant pretty easily and make
you want to follow it. And um, I remember towards
the end of his life he would just tell us
the same things over and over and over again. Like
he just would say, stay focused, stay focused. Every time
(26:23):
I talked to him on the phone every time I
see it, and he would say, but Jonah, stay focused,
and so things like that just resonated with me throughout
my life. You know, as I go on my journey,
tell me about some memories you have of maybe a
trip that you guys took, or a family dinner or
something um that stands out. One of my best memories
(26:47):
is just eating dinner. My dad was really big about
everyone sitting down at the table as a family and
eating together, which is something I don't necessarily always with
my family out. My dad really valued that. So whether
it didn't matter what we were eating, he just wanted
us to sit down as a family. We would end
(27:07):
up sitting at the table for hours just talking, having conversation,
and they gave us so much time to really get
to know each other and keep up on what each
other had going on throughout the day. So, as far
as back as you can remember, was your dad always
a reverend or did he become a reverend at some
(27:28):
point as you grew up. As far as I can remember,
he was always involved in the church in some way.
I remember him being a deacon. I think that's my
earliest memory of him. He worked as a deacon, and
he was the guy in the church that we would
say always had all the keys. So just like he
(27:48):
drove the church man, he was just always involved in
the church. And which church was that when you were
growing up, well, well we're going up. We went to
Salem and he was very involved there. He worked as
a deacon, and then he also participated in the prison ministry,
and then he also worked at a rehab house like
(28:11):
a drug rehab house of bank kid and that he
headed up. So sometimes we would go to work with
him there and he did a lot of counseling um
with people in the community. So I always remember him
being involved in the community and with the church, and
you know, just trying to lend a healthy hand to
younger males especially. And at what point, as you started
(28:35):
to grow up did you realize that your dad had
a former life different than the one he was leading
now as a hustler. I would say when I really
found out, Jeff was when I met youth and you
started bringing around like newspaper clippings and things like that.
I mean, before then I knew people call him chicken man,
and I had heard kind of stories about his life,
(28:58):
but I wasn't exactly sure um that he was like
a hustler um until I got to high school and
people started showing so much interest in his story, and
that's when I started learning more. Honestly, I I feel
like I'm still learning a lot about who he was.
And if you ask different people, you get a different response.
(29:18):
And with me being like his lash child, I was
born so late in his life. I think the version
of my dad that I got was like this whole
body minister. So I was kind of shocked to note
that he was involved in all these different enterprises. I
would say, as a young man, what were some of
(29:39):
the things that your dad talked about as growing up
as a black man in Atlanta or some of the
racial things that he dealt with growing up that he
broach those subjects at all. My dad, he more so
talked about race. And I think this is true of
him and my mom from their own perspective, Like it
was never more so about like how they were treated
(30:01):
by white people. It was more so what their own
reaction to it was. We just kind of knew you
work for yourself. One thing that he told me is
that he felt that black people were better off before
integration because they had a stronger sense of entrepreneurship and community.
(30:22):
That's what he told me about race, but never really
from the perspective that I should look out for any
race over another, but just more so that if you're
going to be a black person in America, you have
to stand up for what you believe it and you
have to really know your value in the workplace and
not allow people to use you because you're bringing value
(30:44):
to whatever you do. Did you ever see him give
any sermons? Oh? Yes, definitely. What kind of preacher was he?
My dad was the most laid back preacher, like almost
too laid back. Like he would just like I said,
he just talked to you. He wasn't gonna yell at you.
He wasn't gonna hoop and holler. He was gonna have
an outline and give you some good tip bits, and
(31:07):
he might speak for thirty minutes, but it's always gonna
be like one thing you remember, you know, um, But
I remember at the end of each sermon he would
always say, and remember, only what you do for Christ
will last. More so than a preacher, he was a counselor.
You know. He was a type that after he gets
off the pulpit. Then everybody wants to go talk to him,
(31:28):
you know, get advice from him, tell them about his day,
you know, about their day. I would say, just a
kind and caring type of preacher, not not somebody who's
gonna condemn you for the things you did wrong, but
more so understanding. And he would always just tell me,
you know, people are just people. They're always gonna disappoint you.
You can't hold people to this high standard and expect
(31:50):
them to be perfect. You'll always be disappointed. You just
have to let people be who they are. So that's
how he really operated as a minister as well. Um
madey grace. How sweet this out to say? Likely When
(32:32):
I found out that Gordon got Parkinson's, I was really bummed.
I went to visit him at the v A hospital
right near where my parents lived. He was weak, but
he gathered his strength to speak with me one last time.
We shared a quiet moment of reflection and I said
my goodbyes. Here's his family talking about the last days
(32:56):
they were with him at the hospital. This is camill One.
I remember a particular in his very last days when
I went to see him in the hospital and I
think this is the same day that he passed. He
passed that night, but when I got there that morning,
(33:17):
I remember when I walked in, you know, just you
could tell he was extremely weak, but I remember I
was holding his hand. I had been reading to him
and things like that, and then he started to move
a little bit in his face and I just remember
looking and thinking, oh my god, I think he's about
to open his eyes. And you could tell that it
(33:38):
took a lot of effort, but he opened his eyes
and it was just like for a second. But I
remember I was smiling, and all the nurses came in
and they were so happy, you know, that he opened
his eyes. And so that definitely sticks out to me.
And he had a way of getting you to learn
a lesson and from that, I just always remember thinking
(34:00):
I could do anything, you know, because he was so
strong to even be on his deathbed and worked so
hard to be able to see me one more time
and let me know that I can't make excuses with
your life. I just gotta persevering no matter what. Like
he always told us to stay focused and keep moving forward.
Even in the last days. You know, you can steal accomplish.
(34:22):
What did you want to accomplish, even if that's just
open your eyes to see your family. And this is
part Jona. Well, it seems like those years went by fast,
from when he was like diagnose with Parkinson's to his
health beginning to decline. When he got to the end
of his life where he couldn't say much. Even what
(34:43):
I would call to talk to my mom on the phone,
I could hear in the background then like stay focused.
So he was just trying to give us those last
you know, messages of who he wanted us to be
and you know, make that contribution to our life and
really appreciate that at this age. You know, sometimes I
wish he was still here, but I think he left
(35:05):
us with so many, you know, nuggets wisdom. And this
is his wife, Dolores, talking about the last moments of
his life. He was okay. You could see that he
had peace in his heart, he had peace in his mind,
you know, and he in fact, he told me he
was ready to go. I said, no, no, no, I'm
(35:28):
trying to know you're not. You're not ready to go,
and say you can't leave me as you can't leave
me with these girls. That's what I said. No, you
y'all don't be all right, y'all gonna be all right.
He was really ready to go. And here is Gordon
Williams Jr. As he was with his father at the
end when they had to put him on the respirators
(35:55):
when it really hit me that it was coming to
an end. So we all went to um because he
died in South Forks in the hospital on Cleveland Avenue.
So we all went there and uh and when we
got there, he was, you know, they had him on
the respirator and had him on the breathe machine and
(36:17):
stuff like that. That was that was real difficult. That
was really difficult looking at my dad like that. But
I knew that, I knew that the end was near.
He motioned for me to come, you know, and I
went over to his bed side, and the loss was
on this side. I was on that side, and I
grabbed his hand and he just he squeezed my hand
(36:39):
and he took his last breath and that was it.
That was that was something else. He's a good man.
It's a good man. Yeah. Uh ws walls loud. But
(37:11):
now I've fun live but noa uh Ce. Fight Night
(37:34):
is a joint production from I Heart Radio, Will Packer
Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. Produced
and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer,
James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown.
Supervising producer is Taylor Scoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown
(37:55):
and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts.
Edited by at Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah
Kulanni Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players.
Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB
News Film and Video Tape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University
(38:15):
of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and
David Davis. Fight Night is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the
i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
From I Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night.
I'm Jeff keating where I'm gonna lay down? My birdens
where down. When I first met Chicken Man back in
two thousand and three, he was actually Reverend Gordon Williams.
(00:24):
He greeted me at his church and we had our
first interview together. After a few years, we'd become close friends.
We broke bread together, we watched movies together. We talked
about our family together, and he ended up counseling my
life as well. I also got to know his family,
his wife Dolores, his son Gordon Williams Jr. And his
(00:49):
two daughters, Camilla and Barjona. Here I am with Dolores
as we talked about the first time she met Gordon Williams. Uh.
I was working in the salon doing Better Do first
year right. So Golden came in and told the receptionist
(01:12):
that he had an appointment with me, and so I
heard him and I turned around and looked, I said,
you know, like and he it was like he just
felt me when I said that, because I'm looking kind
of strange. At the time, I was trying not to
do me in hair, you know, I was busy, and
but and then he turned he said, yes, my appointment
is with Delores. He came, he said, and I began
(01:34):
to notice him, which was really strange for me because
I was busy, and guys come in all the time
and try to be at you and all that, but
I wouldn't really, you know, for all at it that
particular time. But there were things that I began to
notice about it. The way he was dressed. I mean,
he he was just immaculate, and he was the colors
were right, and it wasn't too much, it was just enough.
(01:57):
He was just he was just on it. So he
over what he wanted and I cut his hair, and
it just so happened that now I got two assistants,
but both of them were busy at the time when
it was start for him to get his hair shampoo.
So who has left to shampoo his hair? But man,
so I took it, you know, to shampoo bowl and
then I really could check it out. But she and uh,
(02:22):
and so when I finished with him, and he you know,
came back to the chair and he says, I really
enjoyed my shampoo and everything. He says, I would love
to make another appointment with the afterway you can and
you get really go out to do shop, take the
appointment for you know, right back that so, uh that's
how we met. You know, he started asking me to
(02:42):
go after Benner and all that, but I resisted it
for a long time, but because the fact that I
knew he was with somebody, you know, and uh so
I didn't want to get into all of that. But
he wouldn't. He wouldn't give up. Yeah, he wouldn't give
up on it. So tell me about the early years
of Dolores and partying and your heyday. What was that like?
It was? It was amazing, Like I said, immediately when
(03:07):
I opened the salon, it was so popular and so
anybody was to come to town, all of the new
people they would want to come there. And uh so
it was we worked hard and we're parded hard. So
at what point, you know, when you guys are dating,
like who starts to lean into you know, Jesus and
(03:28):
the Lord first is it? You? Are you doing it? Okay? Okay,
So tell me about kind of what led you down
that path and then how you kind of pulled Gordon
in with you. Okay, Well, you know, after after a
while I knew that he cared for me, I really did.
I knew he cared for me, but he had so
much going on in his life, so he was going
back and forth, you know, when his business and all that.
(03:50):
But it got to the point where he would when
he was in town, he was going to make sure
he came back to Salon. And he finally convinced me
to go out with him, and I did in it.
And he was such a gentleman. I mean, he would
make you love it, you know, he would really do that.
He was free high at he was a gentleman, and
he would take it to the best of places, and
(04:12):
and to see a man with his capabilities and his
personality and everything, he could easily fall in love with him.
And so that's what happened. And then then after we
were together for a while, he came my hand and
brought me to this house. And I've been in here since,
you know, like the kids were saying, well, they came later,
but we had gone through quite a few things and
(04:34):
breaking up, and and with me getting saved and everything,
you know, I got saved changed my life. So now
at some point you're married and you've got two young girls. Okay,
got you, And so tell me a little bit about finally,
you know, because again this is a long process where
Gordon realizes, Hey, if I'm gonna be with this lady
and these two young girls, I got to give up
this life. So tell me tell me how that happens.
(04:56):
And like, were you around for the thing where he
owed like hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yeah, that was
a scary time. Okay, so tell me tell me that's
important because this is a story that he tells. And
so tell me about what was going on and how
you were feeling and how he was handling all that,
because that was I mean, that's that's close to death situation.
Well at this particular time, um, you know, it was
(05:17):
still the thing of him, you know, going back and forth.
He was working, you know, kind of what he was
doing and uh, but it was just getting you know,
the people that he was dealing with and could just
tell that things were and then I was able to
see these things, you know, so I would be finding
the one in advance, even though I wasn't with him
all the time, but I said, you know this and
(05:38):
that and that. So anyway, anyway, they tricked in and
uh ended up putting them in a bad situation. So
he was focusing a lot on getting that together, which
was the rightest thing to do, you know. And uh,
but at the meantime he ended up he had a
bullet that had been in his leg for a long time.
(05:59):
And why this thing? What was that? From the war?
From the streets? No, well, no, from the streets. He
got shot. So how did that happen? I think a
friend of here is something they were either together and
they got somebody got mad, and but at the time,
(06:20):
they were, you know, doing what they do. And so
he gets shot. He's got a bullet in his leg. Yeah,
I got a bullet in his leg. And he went
to the hospital for it, but he wouldn't even stay
that long enough for them to get it out, you know,
he just felt just left with it. Now this was
before I met him, Now, yes, I understand. And uh.
And so he left with the bullet in his leg,
(06:40):
and I guess he felt that he was all right,
So he never saw about it. But at this particular
time when he's down there, he's done a lot of
stress because they're trying to settle this thing, trying to
find this these people that stole all the stuff and
they ended up the bullet popped out of his leg. Yeah,
he was bleeding. So he ended up in the hospital.
(07:01):
Oh my goodness. And when he went to the hospital
where they will be kept him there and they cleaned
him up and all that kind of stuff, and he stays.
So that's when he said for me to come down there,
because can you know? And so I went. And when
you sit down there, do you mean to Miami? Yeah, okay,
got you go ahead. But he came out and you know,
and it was just such a a terrible pan. You know,
(07:23):
most of the time when you're in the life of crime, tolors,
it's very hard to get out. It is. When Gordon
is dealing with a high level situation, a lot of
money that he owes for drugs, that's just what it was.
He's got something that stole it from him. And more importantly,
they're giving him this ultimatum and he talks about this,
bring me this guy's head in a paper bag, and
everything's okay. And Gordon isn't a murderer, so he's like saying, listen, exactly,
(07:47):
I got it. So now he's got to clear to
this debt, So he's got to sell more drugs to
clear this debt. But normally after you do that, it's
so hard to get out. So finally he pays his debt,
but how does he get out of this life? I'm
glad that you brought it to the memory. When we
came home. Then he began to all the contacts or
whatever he had to to get rid of stuff. This
(08:10):
is what he began to do. So when when he
got the money all that he needed to pay, then
I remember I drove that rode down with him, when
rode down to Miami and he went, he met with
them and he paid them and uh and they would saying,
oh good. Then yeah, this is that, you know, like
they were so happy to know what else we could
(08:31):
we can do. He turned around and put his hand
on his button, said you can kiss. In other words,
he was through. He was through with it, and he
did not look back. So what you're telling me is
after he pays that off and he's like kiss my,
you know what, he literally is been able to cut
it all off. He did. Here I am with Gordon
(08:57):
Williams Jr. As he talks about how his father's lifestyle
affected him as he grew older. At the time, I'm
taking his place. So I'm selling kilos like crazy sins
of the father. Yeah, I'm following up my dad's footsteps.
Then I get busted in Henry County and it's one
(09:18):
of the largest drug busts in Henry County on record.
It was a guy who was driving for me, but
he got caught with twenty nine kilos and he told
him it was mine. So they picked me up and
charged me with conspiracy. So that was kind of like
the catalyst for my dad because it really hurt him
because now the fans got me. When the Fetz get you,
the Fez got you. I started off in Georgia Penitentiary.
(09:38):
How long did you have to serve? Ten years, six
months and twenty one days. That's a real deal right there. Yeah. Yeah,
So that that really hurt my dad, you know, because
I'm his I'm his firstborn, and for me to follow
in his footsteps and to fall like that changed his
whole world. And he came to court in my defense.
(10:00):
I was sending on my birthday, September the ninth. Prior
to that, he had stopped using. But tell me get
to the court. He's clean. He's clean, he's clean. The
judges sentenced me. Just happened to go to school with
my mom, so he knows about you. So he knows
about Yeah, he knows about me, and he knows about
my dad. So they asked, do anybody want to say
(10:23):
anything before they passed sentison, And my dad gets up
and says, your I like to speak on my son's
behalf and tell you that he's not bad and he
needs a second chance, and if you allow him the
second chance, you do right by you. And he said,
I throw myself on the merger of the court that
please don't sentence him, because they were asking for a
(10:46):
lot of time for me. They was asking for there
was asked to life. He told my dad, Mr Willien,
gona take everything in consideration, and I'm gonna send us
your son underneath the guidelines because the guidelines are called
for out of life. I'm gonna give him fifteen years.
And he gave me fifteen and I serve teen on it.
I was in Atlanta waiting to move and they had
(11:09):
a press service down it for the inmates, and they said,
anybody want to go to press service? I said, yeah,
you know, I go over there, and when I went
down to press service, I guess it was there. Your father,
my dad. He was running the outreach prison ministries for inmates.
And when he saw me, because I didn't know he
was coming, and I didn't know he was you know,
(11:31):
I didn't know he was gonna be there, and when
I went in, he's you know, he just he started crying.
You know, you're like God, let him man. Then he
started getting closer and closer to to the Lord and
he started, you know, started really confessing his sins and
started his life started changing. And then that's when he
opened up the Church International Ministries two thousand. Did he
(11:55):
did he ultimately get ordained? Yeah? Yeah, he's an ordained minister.
He was a ordained minister. When he died. He went
to theologically he went to more House over there, and
I was like, wow, what a turnaround from a drug
dealer to a reverend. And he said, yeah, you know,
I opened up my own church and minister. I said, really, okay, cool.
When I got out, I got out August the thirty,
(12:17):
two thousand and six, So when I got out, I
went to the church. So he wanted me to minister
to the younger guys in the congregation because they didn't
understand what it was like, you know, to to be
out here and selling drugs and doing wrong. He said,
you can give them a message that dad listen to
(12:39):
because you experienced it. Because my dad never defereral time.
He never went to prison for as long as I did.
So he said that I had something to offer. So
and I started, you know, I started, uh ministering to
the to the young, to the younger groups there. And
it was strange seeing my dad transfer for him like that.
(13:02):
That was a really strange transformation I witnessed because part
of me leaving he was, you know, I mean chicken man,
you know, and when you came out, he was what
Reben Williams. He was Reverend Williams when I came on.
He had let that that old name die. I mean,
but you can't get rid of it. I said, you're
gonna be Chicken Man for life. I don't care. I mean,
(13:22):
that's what people don't know you. And people people was
questioning whether his faith was real or not because they
just didn't want to believe it because they knew him
prior to meet this man afterwards, and he's talking about
worshiping God and praying and healing, and it just it
(13:44):
didn't set well. What a lot of people. When did
you know that the transformation was real? Well, him and
Dolores stopped using drugs when they gave their life to Christ.
I knew it was real. My name was real. I
(14:08):
also stayed in touch with j. D. Hudson over the years,
and I was shocked to learn about an incredible event
that happened to him, but not surprised by the outcome.
I connected with his daughter, Renee, as she told me
about who j D was as a father and what
it was like being the daughter of a policeman the
(14:31):
time that I was in high school. My father at
that time was a school detective and what does that mean?
And where was that? Back then, all the schools had
cops assigned to the school, so if they had problem
kids or whatever, if there was some kind of Rucka's
going on or whatever, they were assigned to certain high schools.
(14:52):
And my father was assigned to high school that I
went to. Do you think, okay, Renee, you think he
did that? Imagine? Yeah, do you think he did that
for a reason? I don't know. I think I know
your dad oh god, it was just you know, and everybody.
So I didn't have a whole lot of friends. Of course,
not you got this cop. That is so now maybe
(15:14):
some girlfriends that didn't want to you know that were Yeah,
it was straight lacewere. But no guys are going to
be like that's true. That's true. Oh my goodness, that's
that is a that is a j D move. If
I've ever my God, tell me a little bit about
your father. What kind of dad was he? What do
you remember about him growing up? What were some things
that you remember of being the daughter of J. D. Hudson.
(15:37):
I love my father. I thought he was He was
a good dad. He was a hard worker. He'd worked
a lot, you know, excellent provider. Oh. He loved holidays.
He loved Christmas. His favorite color was blue. So I
love Christmas too, But everything was blue. We had blue lights,
(16:00):
had a red blue wreathe, We had blue bulbs, We
had blue tints along the Christmas tree. And so I said,
when I grew up, I'm never having anything blue because
he loved blue. But he loved the holidays. He loved Christmas. Uh,
he loved wrapping gifts. He and my uncle they would
(16:22):
play on my brother's toys before my brother and I
would wake up for Christmas. He would always take us
on vacation Bangazne. Things were segregated. He loved to go
to Jackal Island and there was a black side of
Jackal Island and a white side of Jackal Island. We
you know, drive to Florida. There were a lot of
places we couldn't stop. I remember once we stopped somewhere
(16:46):
and we got gas, and the guy came out and
called my father the N word, and so my daddy
told him, you siphon all this gas out of my car.
That's when I kind of realized the world was not
the same everywhere, you know, because I had been so
(17:08):
insulated because in the area that I lived and it
was all black. He just always taught me to be
kind to everyone, you know, not to hate. He wanted
me to do well in school. I think he was
a pretty nice dad. The only thing about being my
father's daughter was that it prevented me from having a
(17:29):
lot of friends. A lot of people wouldn't come over
because my dad, you know, he started out being a cop,
you know, and then when he was over the beer
of corrections, oh my god, you know, and so people
shied away from me. It was different from my brother. Now,
my brother that was a different story. But for me,
oh my goodness, you know, I would said I love daddy,
(17:50):
but godly, I wish he wasn't a cop. Walk me
through where you were or when you heard about when
the guys tried to take the Cadillac from your dad's garage.
I was in Conyers and I drove over here and
by the time I got here to the house, they
had taken my father to the hospital. So then I
(18:13):
drive to Grady and I'm frantic, and I asked them,
I'm trying to find the gentleman that got shot and
it was just brought in by the ambulance. And they said,
there are two people that just got shot. I said,
what are you talking about? She said, there are two
people on whatever floor or an emergency their side by side.
(18:38):
You want the young man or the older man. And
so I said, what do you mean there are two people?
So I said, you need to tell the cops. If
there are two people that got shot, more than likely
that person that's sitting next this land it to my dad.
It's a person that shot him. They said, oh, ma'am.
So I ran to my father and I said, oh
my god. And do you know the man that shot
(18:59):
my daddy was right next door. And when he heard
me tell him the nurses you need to find that
guy because she shot my dad, he ran out of
the hospital. Well they caught the guy, you know that, right, Yeah? Okay?
And then there was two daddy, uh, and they and
they had a trial, but Daddy didn't tell me anything.
They didn't go because I wanted to go, but that
(19:20):
I don't know. I don't know. And so by the
time I found that they had already had a trial.
And did you know that there was two people that
were shot. One was killed. Yeah. See, this is the
mistake that Daddy made. Daddy was in his Cadillac. My
brother believed it was an intentional hit on my dad,
and so Daddy drove into the driveway and he made
the cardinal mistake of not letting the garage door down.
(19:44):
So he was sitting in the car with the radio on,
smoking a cigar, and these two guys with masks, which
is strange, came up, one to the left and one
to the right. Both cars were in the garage. And
you've been over here before, so you know, it's not
that much space between the wall and the and the
(20:05):
car parked and the other side, because Mama's car was
on the Ryan side. And they pointed the gun at
my dad. Old man get out of the car, and
Daddy just happened to have his service revolver and you
know how to have this whole pocket on the door,
on the left side of the door in the drippings back.
So that's when he pulled that gun up and he
(20:26):
shot him, and then he got the car and shot
the other one. And so then Daddy and Mama had
just come from abroad. Somebody had just dropped her off.
She just walked in the door and she was taking
her clothes off, and she she hurried the gunshot. She
came to the door with an underwear on. He told
her get back in the house, and she closed the
(20:48):
door and called the police, called the nine one one.
So the guy runs out, he shoots one guy and
then one guy falls down. I think he died. He
at him and he failed right before he got to
Cascade Road, so you can got as far as he
could the beach triss and fell over on the ground.
(21:09):
So I think that's the one that died. How was
your dad's recovery? The gunshots, they didn't hit any Organs,
but I believe they pausing them to his system, and
I think that was the reason that daddy died. He
was a tough man, your dad. Yeah, I think I
think he got shot. I think he had four gun shots,
three or four hun Remember he was definitely shot a
(21:30):
few times. I remember that. I still have the article.
Any closing words you want to say about J. D. Hudson,
I love him dearly. I think it was an excellent
role model. Um. It was wonderful being his daughter. Uh.
(21:53):
He was very and affectionate, kind man. Um. And every
Christmas I think about him because he really really loved Christmas.
I didn't have a lot of boyfriends, a lot of
christ but my daddy always gave me something for Valentine's Days.
(22:14):
You aways made sure I had a heart shaped think
of candy. You know, when there just a little things
like that. You know. He was just such a It
was a nice daddy. He was so affectionate and so thoughtful,
and I just missed. Here I am with Gordon's oldest daughter,
(22:47):
Camilla as she reflects on who he was as a father.
Growing up with Gordon Williams as a father, I think
one thing that sticks out to me is just the
excitement of knowing when he was coming home. He had
a signature whistle that he did. I can't whistle, but
(23:08):
it always said whoooo. That was his way of letting
us know that he was in the house. And I
just remember anytime I heard that whistle, I just got
so excited. He was very kind and loving. He trusted
us in a weird way, you know, even as children,
to make good decisions. He had a way of guiding
you without you know, dictating. He wanted you to to
(23:30):
learn and live your life, but he was always there
to drop those jewels of wisdom. You know. One thing
I always noticed that a lot of people always loved
him to um that he was loved by a lot
of people. You know, even we were at gas stations
or just random places that I didn't even know that
people would know who he was. Um, somebody would come
(23:51):
up and give him a handshake or a hug, or
just have something good to say about him. And what
do you remember him in your early years being a
referend and to community and affiliation with the church. I
remember him younger being more involved in the prison ministry.
I remember admiring his love for working with the prisoners.
And I do remember like events they would have at
(24:13):
the church at Saleman. I remember one event in particular,
like a bunch of prisoners were able to come to
the church during the service, and I remember him, you know,
being involved in that, and I was just thinking, Wow,
this is really dope, you know, for this to be happening.
So things like that. I definitely admired with him in
the church. He was I didn't really hear him speak
(24:34):
a lot growing up. I just saw more of his
actions being done. Tell me a little bit or some
of the memories that you remember, either maybe between you
and your dad or family members or trip. But what's
a one or two things that stands out. What sticks
out with me. Um was in his elder years when
he was having a bouts of like dementia. One of
(24:55):
the things was I used to like to put him
in the car and put and Osley brothers for the
love of you, and he would kind of just be present,
you know somehow it made him if he was having
issues remembering or you know, sometimes that would really frustrate him,
and he might be in a not one of his
(25:15):
best moves because he wanted to be, you know, fully
strong mentally and physically. But I remember when he would
kind of just be able to sit back in the
car and I remember just riding ask him where you
want to go, eat what he feels like eating, and
you know, being able to take him out to eat,
roll the windows down and just put on some Osley
Brothers and he would just be present, you know, be
(25:38):
there in the moment. And that brought me a lot
of joy. And this is Gordon's youngest daughter, Barjona, with
her insights on her father. He was just really kind
and uh wise father Like I don't remember him yelling
at me or being kind of a suplinarian. It was
(26:01):
more so if he wanted me to do something, he
kind of just told me and he could, you know,
he just had a way with words or he could
make you understand what he meant pretty easily and make
you want to follow it. And um, I remember towards
the end of his life he would just tell us
the same things over and over and over again. Like
he just would say, stay focused, stay focused. Every time
(26:23):
I talked to him on the phone every time I
see it, and he would say, but Jonah, stay focused,
and so things like that just resonated with me throughout
my life. You know, as I go on my journey,
tell me about some memories you have of maybe a
trip that you guys took, or a family dinner or
something um that stands out. One of my best memories
(26:47):
is just eating dinner. My dad was really big about
everyone sitting down at the table as a family and
eating together, which is something I don't necessarily always with
my family out. My dad really valued that. So whether
it didn't matter what we were eating, he just wanted
us to sit down as a family. We would end
(27:07):
up sitting at the table for hours just talking, having conversation,
and they gave us so much time to really get
to know each other and keep up on what each
other had going on throughout the day. So, as far
as back as you can remember, was your dad always
a reverend or did he become a reverend at some
(27:28):
point as you grew up. As far as I can remember,
he was always involved in the church in some way.
I remember him being a deacon. I think that's my
earliest memory of him. He worked as a deacon, and
he was the guy in the church that we would
say always had all the keys. So just like he
(27:48):
drove the church man, he was just always involved in
the church. And which church was that when you were
growing up, well, well we're going up. We went to
Salem and he was very involved there. He worked as
a deacon, and then he also participated in the prison ministry,
and then he also worked at a rehab house like
(28:11):
a drug rehab house of bank kid and that he
headed up. So sometimes we would go to work with
him there and he did a lot of counseling um
with people in the community. So I always remember him
being involved in the community and with the church, and
you know, just trying to lend a healthy hand to
younger males especially. And at what point, as you started
(28:35):
to grow up did you realize that your dad had
a former life different than the one he was leading
now as a hustler. I would say when I really
found out, Jeff was when I met youth and you
started bringing around like newspaper clippings and things like that.
I mean, before then I knew people call him chicken man,
and I had heard kind of stories about his life,
(28:58):
but I wasn't exactly sure um that he was like
a hustler um until I got to high school and
people started showing so much interest in his story, and
that's when I started learning more. Honestly, I I feel
like I'm still learning a lot about who he was.
And if you ask different people, you get a different response.
(29:18):
And with me being like his lash child, I was
born so late in his life. I think the version
of my dad that I got was like this whole
body minister. So I was kind of shocked to note
that he was involved in all these different enterprises. I
would say, as a young man, what were some of
(29:39):
the things that your dad talked about as growing up
as a black man in Atlanta or some of the
racial things that he dealt with growing up that he
broach those subjects at all. My dad, he more so
talked about race. And I think this is true of
him and my mom from their own perspective, Like it
was never more so about like how they were treated
(30:01):
by white people. It was more so what their own
reaction to it was. We just kind of knew you
work for yourself. One thing that he told me is
that he felt that black people were better off before
integration because they had a stronger sense of entrepreneurship and community.
(30:22):
That's what he told me about race, but never really
from the perspective that I should look out for any
race over another, but just more so that if you're
going to be a black person in America, you have
to stand up for what you believe it and you
have to really know your value in the workplace and
not allow people to use you because you're bringing value
(30:44):
to whatever you do. Did you ever see him give
any sermons? Oh? Yes, definitely. What kind of preacher was he?
My dad was the most laid back preacher, like almost
too laid back. Like he would just like I said,
he just talked to you. He wasn't gonna yell at you.
He wasn't gonna hoop and holler. He was gonna have
an outline and give you some good tip bits, and
(31:07):
he might speak for thirty minutes, but it's always gonna
be like one thing you remember, you know, um, But
I remember at the end of each sermon he would
always say, and remember, only what you do for Christ
will last. More so than a preacher, he was a counselor.
You know. He was a type that after he gets
off the pulpit. Then everybody wants to go talk to him,
(31:28):
you know, get advice from him, tell them about his day,
you know, about their day. I would say, just a
kind and caring type of preacher, not not somebody who's
gonna condemn you for the things you did wrong, but
more so understanding. And he would always just tell me,
you know, people are just people. They're always gonna disappoint you.
You can't hold people to this high standard and expect
(31:50):
them to be perfect. You'll always be disappointed. You just
have to let people be who they are. So that's
how he really operated as a minister as well. Um
madey grace. How sweet this out to say? Likely When
(32:32):
I found out that Gordon got Parkinson's, I was really bummed.
I went to visit him at the v A hospital
right near where my parents lived. He was weak, but
he gathered his strength to speak with me one last time.
We shared a quiet moment of reflection and I said
my goodbyes. Here's his family talking about the last days
(32:56):
they were with him at the hospital. This is camill One.
I remember a particular in his very last days when
I went to see him in the hospital and I
think this is the same day that he passed. He
passed that night, but when I got there that morning,
(33:17):
I remember when I walked in, you know, just you
could tell he was extremely weak, but I remember I
was holding his hand. I had been reading to him
and things like that, and then he started to move
a little bit in his face and I just remember
looking and thinking, oh my god, I think he's about
to open his eyes. And you could tell that it
(33:38):
took a lot of effort, but he opened his eyes
and it was just like for a second. But I
remember I was smiling, and all the nurses came in
and they were so happy, you know, that he opened
his eyes. And so that definitely sticks out to me.
And he had a way of getting you to learn
a lesson and from that, I just always remember thinking
(34:00):
I could do anything, you know, because he was so
strong to even be on his deathbed and worked so
hard to be able to see me one more time
and let me know that I can't make excuses with
your life. I just gotta persevering no matter what. Like
he always told us to stay focused and keep moving forward.
Even in the last days. You know, you can steal accomplish.
(34:22):
What did you want to accomplish, even if that's just
open your eyes to see your family. And this is
part Jona. Well, it seems like those years went by fast,
from when he was like diagnose with Parkinson's to his
health beginning to decline. When he got to the end
of his life where he couldn't say much. Even what
(34:43):
I would call to talk to my mom on the phone,
I could hear in the background then like stay focused.
So he was just trying to give us those last
you know, messages of who he wanted us to be
and you know, make that contribution to our life and
really appreciate that at this age. You know, sometimes I
wish he was still here, but I think he left
(35:05):
us with so many, you know, nuggets wisdom. And this
is his wife, Dolores, talking about the last moments of
his life. He was okay. You could see that he
had peace in his heart, he had peace in his mind,
you know, and he in fact, he told me he
was ready to go. I said, no, no, no, I'm
(35:28):
trying to know you're not. You're not ready to go,
and say you can't leave me as you can't leave
me with these girls. That's what I said. No, you
y'all don't be all right, y'all gonna be all right.
He was really ready to go. And here is Gordon
Williams Jr. As he was with his father at the
end when they had to put him on the respirators
(35:55):
when it really hit me that it was coming to
an end. So we all went to um because he
died in South Forks in the hospital on Cleveland Avenue.
So we all went there and uh and when we
got there, he was, you know, they had him on
the respirator and had him on the breathe machine and
(36:17):
stuff like that. That was that was real difficult. That
was really difficult looking at my dad like that. But
I knew that, I knew that the end was near.
He motioned for me to come, you know, and I
went over to his bed side, and the loss was
on this side. I was on that side, and I
grabbed his hand and he just he squeezed my hand
(36:39):
and he took his last breath and that was it.
That was that was something else. He's a good man.
It's a good man. Yeah. Uh ws walls loud. But
(37:11):
now I've fun live but noa uh Ce. Fight Night
(37:34):
is a joint production from I Heart Radio, Will Packer
Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures. Produced
and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer,
James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown.
Supervising producer is Taylor Scoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown
(37:55):
and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts.
Edited by at Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah
Kulanni Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players.
Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB
News Film and Video Tape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University
(38:15):
of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and
David Davis. Fight Night is a production of I heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, check out the
i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Host
Jeff Keating
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