October 26, 2020 • 26 mins
Enter J.D. Hudson. Assigned to the case by the Chief of Police, this tough no-nonsense cop had knowledge of the streets and the crooks who ran them. The first black detective in Atlanta’s desegregated police force, Hudson headed security for the Ali fight. As the lead investigator for the crime, Hudson’s job was to bring Chicken Man down. But few knew of the mutual respect and friendship they shared from opposite sides of the street. Could Atlanta’s homegrown version of Shaft save the hustler and solve the crime?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I remember so clearly the first time I told this story.
It was to my good friend Johnny at a bar
in Atlanta during the summer of two thousand and three.
After a few bourbon on the rocks, the details were
just flowing out of me. Muhammad Ali was back to
boxing in the fall of nineteen seventy after a three
year suspension for refusing to enter the military draft. There
(00:21):
were celebrities, politician, journalists, and hustlers from all over the
country that converged into Atlanta to celebrate his return. I
told him about a hustler named Gordon Williams, a k a.
Chicken Man, who was throwing the biggest party of his life.
But when his guests walked inside, they were greeted by
seven mask gunmen. Was sawed off shotguns who escorted them
(00:45):
down to the basement, stripped them out of their clothes,
and robbed them of a million dollars in cash and jewelry.
When I was done, Johnny looked at me with a
shocked expression on his face. Slowly, he turned to the
stranger sitting at the barn is left and said, you've
got to hear this story. Then he looked back at
me and demanded, tell it again, Jeff Okay, Johnny here
(01:10):
it is. Why did the press keep following this story?
Mamma Ali, Cassius Clay, there's not one number two. It
was a big robber. You're ready to worry Blackmark. Yeah,
I said they had robbed the blackmark. This fight represented
the brace Muhammad Ali. All the hotels were so loud,
(01:32):
guys had their rolls royces flown to a Maxi beautiful people.
Little bit star Ali was in exile in the boxing community.
He was stripped of his heavyweight title and the big
fight commissions. No one would touch him. They wasn't diving
and they were serious dropped because they hadn't known when
(01:54):
they were robbing. Then they were robbed. So when did
the investigation end? You wanted from my Heart radio and
doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night. I'm Jeff Keithing. Ever
(02:15):
since I was a kid, I've had a passion for
true crime. It all started forty years ago with my
dad in a hotel room in New York City. He
showed me a very r rated film, The French Connection
Behind My Mom's Back. This nine seventies true crime thriller
star Gene Hackman as the fearless detective pop by Doyle
(02:36):
and Fernando Ray as the cunning French heroine smuggler known
as Frog One. It was a classic depiction of cop
versus criminal, cat versus mouse, but also showed the incredibly
thin line between police and the criminals they chase. Needless
to say, I was hooked. Fast forward twenty years later,
(02:58):
my dad told me a true prime story that had
all the same things I loved about that movie. This
one was based in my hometown of Atlanta, Georgia. Another
classic case of cop versus criminal, but this time the
cat protects the mouse. Good morning, Good morning, sir. How
(03:21):
are you doing. I think I'm okay. This is my dad,
Tom Keating. He was in Atlanta the night of the fight.
In fact, he was at the hotel where Muhammad Ali
was staying, and I called him to ask him a
few questions about what it was like, and I would
have been out of my element. And it was just
an overwhelming array of glitter and clothing and colors and
(03:46):
festivities and pomp and circumstance, which later was called the
you know, the most unusual collection of black power and
black money, uh and sports and in history coming together
in a city, in our city, in the city that
I've been in since, so it would have been just
(04:09):
over years later. When I was an aspiring screenwriter in
my early thirties, my dad told me this incredible story
for the very first time. He remembered the headline from
the morning he left on his honeymoon with my mom,
so I dragged him down to the Decatur Library to
find out more. After hours searching through microfilm, we finally
got it. This is from the Atlanta Journal Evening edition,
(04:33):
October ninety. It was written by Orville Gaines and Larry Woods.
The headline reads like this, after fight partygoers robbed of
a hundred thousand in cash jewelry. My dad grinned when
he saw my reaction, and I said to him, this
is going to be my next film. This set me
(04:54):
on a path that led to the podcast you're listening
to right now. The interviews in this show spent is
to four decades and were sourced from all kinds of
things like VHS tapes, microcossette camp orders, phone calls, anything
I could get my hands on. Some of these tapes
were never meant to be heard by anyone but me,
so bear with me because some of the recordings are
(05:15):
higher quality than others. But now many of the people
involved in this story are no longer alive, and I
need you to hear from them, the ones who lived it,
in their own words, so you can truly believe what happened.
After researching several more articles from newspapers around the country,
(05:38):
I was able to zero in on one of the
top cops on the case, J D. Hudson, and with
the help that the Public Affairs Division of the Atlanta
Police Department, I tracked him down and got an interview.
On July one, two thousand two, I parked my STUV
on a street in southwest Atlanta and walked to the
(05:59):
front of J. D. Hudson's house. I knocked lightly on
the door and waited. When he finally came out, j
D immediately reminded me of the character Shaft played by
Richard Rowntree in the nineteen seventies crime films Shit, Chef's
his name, Chef's his game. He blocked the entrance while
puffing on a white out miniature cigar and blew a
(06:22):
big smoke ring that engulfed my head. He said, I
don't have to talk to you. I don't have to
talk to anybody, now get inside. While I was grateful
to escape the heat, j D was not particularly welcoming.
He didn't say a word as he led me back
to his living room and plopped down into his worn recliner.
(06:45):
Turned his attention back to the Williams sisters playing at
Wimbledon on TV. J D made it clear he would
not be turning off the game, though we did lower
the volume and notch is kind of a throwaway courtesy.
I pressed the record button and I asked my first quest,
gen what happened the night of the robbery? All right,
(07:10):
take me back to this party, because I'm so confused
about the point I think. Let me try to get
that you thankless birthday. J D told me about a
hustler named Fireball who asked his friend Chicken Man, toast
a big party in Atlanta after the Ali Corey fight.
Who's who of hustlers and gangsters from New York, Philly,
(07:30):
Miami and other big cities around the country were all invited.
Chicken Man wanted this to be like New Year's Eve,
the Super Bowl and Marty Grawl all rolled into one
big party and matter after the frightenes. Okay, when you
talk about a hustles party, rich very rich people, heaven,
(07:53):
the food you can eat right out of you can
drink Okay, Okay, that the big chatter they depend the
girls man. Okay, movie kind of stuff and expects him
and how about a day you know? Right? J D
had risen through the ranks of the Atlanta Police Department
(08:15):
to become the first black man in charge of internal affairs.
He also knew the world of these hustlers, and he
personally knew several of the people directly involved in the
party and the robbery. In fact, he grew up with
some of them in a predominantly black neighborhood in Atlanta
known as Buttermilk Bottom. I grew at an Atlanta the
(08:37):
neighborhood known as the Whole foot Water but that was
baptized at age twelve and the Butt Street Baptist Stretch
from Butler Street. I looked at the Salmon School. There
was some check Jackson and d l being on a Wednesday.
J D knew the world of hustlers and low level
(08:57):
criminals from an early age, but he was also front
and center in the earliest days of the civil rights movement.
Also that I had contact with Andy. I'm starting to
cooking and King and I were friends. And yeah, most
people in the movement Lenne King then Brown as we
grew up together, griping in my MC together. The Butler
(09:20):
Street y m c A was a very important institution
located uh in the Sweet Arban district of the Old
Fourth Ward. This is Dr Maurice Hobson, Atlanta historian, scholar
and author of the award winning book The Legend of
the Black Mecca, Politics and Class and the Making of
Modern Atlanta. Though it served, as you know, a venue
(09:41):
for the young Man's Christian Association, it also served as
the venue for the Hungry Club, which was the black
political sphere in Atlanta. So any political figure that was
interested in courting the black vote had to come to
the Butler Street y m c A. As with most
places in the United States, African Americans were designated it
two low lying areas that oftentimes with flood it was
(10:04):
undesirable land because standing water or stagnant water that made
it more accessible for yellow fever malaria across the American South.
If you lived in that area, that was called the bottom.
So every black community across the American South, there's always
the bottoms, and it usually floods. That particular area becomes
very much a haven. As to how Black America really
(10:25):
begins to congregate, j D never intended to be a cop,
but when he decided to take the officers exam, he
aced it. He was destined for a life enforcing the
law as one of Atlanta's first black policeman. And I
sat down and picks in and made the highes bo
that side. It came up faces. I was one in
(10:47):
the chief praade with Herbert Jenkins, and he sware me
in as a Niga Polies, sware me in as a Nigatholies.
J D dealt with the same struggles that many black
men and women faced in Atlanta during the Civil Rights movement,
(11:07):
and the chief of Police, Herberty Jenkins, who swore j
D n using a racial slur, would develop into a
progressive leader defending the black citizens in the city. You
noticed I I didn't notice it. I just thought about
a respect because I'm used later when he evolved and
(11:28):
founded being one of the most liberal police chiefs in
the country. There's no accident that the headquarters of all
the civil rights movements located in the Atlantic because the
protection the lad Abo Atlanta said the government through her
Virginia's he would not allow whites to attack rights in Amata,
and he demanded were not have arresting. Atlanta was not
(11:50):
gonna be torn about our rights. Now. We were restrictive.
We could not arrest right people. We could not arrest
white people in Atlanta. When the first black cops were
commissioned by the City of Atlanta, it was seen as
purely ceremonial and symbolic. However, the power bestowed upon them
as police officers had little to no effect. They had
(12:12):
no real policing powers. They could not arrest white people.
They were not even allowed to use the locker rooms
at the Atlanta Police station, and so they had to
get dressed at the Butler Street Y m c A.
And we worked uh all of the Avenue Van City
far as the avenue whatever. That was gradually expanded, but
(12:36):
we started it was very restrictive. Things eight hours. We
were not allowed to drive through his uniform through the
white community. We were not allowed to well our uniforms
home made defense on white prison. It was fascinating. You know,
you're a guy who had unprecedented authority in the back community,
(12:59):
no black man and whield the authority and in latter
in the city. As a matter of fact, that a
black policeman did, people did what you told him to do.
People ask you for information, that you were the webserviction there.
People smiled and waved at you. As a matter of fact,
people who followed us around us that we want as
every one on. Black people were very proud about. Yes
(13:21):
they were. Black communities of Atlanta were extremely proud of
these black police officers. And one of the things that
was characteristic of these police officers is that many of
them were from the community in which they were police,
and so there was a trust between black communities and
the black police officers. And the rules and laws changed,
you still had hostility, had resentment. Ah ask a couple
(13:47):
of guys who didn't want to work from me, who
were white. Once they wake from me, they want to
leave men. I was hin the top of the hill,
I was hot, stunned, I was police celebrity. That was
the vie White brothers on the police department. He's a
(14:07):
big to write with me. So it makes some cases.
J D had been dealing with inequality and racial tension
on the Atlanta police force for years. In fact, early
on he wasn't allowed to arrest white people, but he
would eventually be faced with an even more complicated dilemma
having to arrest black people who were out fighting for
(14:30):
his rights as a black man. This tension came to
a head at a place called Lebs Diner. Here's Dr
Hobson so. Lebs Diner was a New York delicatessen that
was located across from what is now the rialto Unlucky
and Forsyth in the early nineties sixties. It was a
whites only restaurant with the students of the Atlanta Student movement.
(14:50):
It was one of the restaurants where black students would
come and promote non violent direct action. And so this
was one of the lunch counters that they would go
to and to be seated in a respectful manner, and
usually the police would show up, had to arrest people.
Uh done. It's a rights movement who were fighting for
(15:10):
my freedom, half of my right to vote, my right
to be a citizen at the resting. You know, so,
I guess I should be a very bitter man. Some
of the challenges of a black police officer was how
to earned the respect of their constituency, but at the
same time, how to enforce the laws which sometimes are
(15:32):
created to marginalize this franchise, criminalized and demonized the same communities,
and which the from Oftentimes, black police officers may have
been harder on black communities then white police officers, because
what the black police officers were trying to do was
trying to show the white establishment that they were not
like some of these criminals in the black community. Being
(15:53):
one of the first black police officers in the country
was very empowering for j D. But it also presented
a constant dream of moral dilemmas. As he rose through
the ranks of the Atlanta p D, his job became
increasingly complicated, a delicate balancing act between his responsibilities and
limitations as a black cop. By seventy j D. Hudson
(16:23):
had been promoted to the head of internal affairs for
the Atlanta Police Department, having risen through the ranks more slowly,
he says, because he was never one to suck up
to his superiors. It was the same year that j
D was given an incredible assignment to guard Muhammad Ali,
a k A. Cassius Clay. In the days leading up
(16:43):
to his triumphant return to boxing, I had the responsibility
of Goden Cassius Clay, because that in about five thousand
threats against the Slight. So I had been with him
all day, and I cared him to the fight and
led him into the range. Matter of fact, I got
(17:06):
beat up. See his head is on around me and
I was walking in front of it. God was practically
only hid and so I was a debate that stayed
with him for twenty whiles a day, seven days a week.
The time he got into and he left, I ran
(17:26):
into all kinds of people rich and the famous and
all that stuff. But j D had no idea about
the million dollar heist which was brewing behind the scenes
of Ali's comeback fight, or that less than twenty four
hours later the chief of police would assign him the
case of his life. J D's assignment made perfect sense.
(17:47):
He was the best man for the job and one
of the only men on the force who was able
to navigate the world of both cops and criminals, and
he understood the relationship between the two. Were there any
police than they were in love to, you know, illegal
activities back in the seventies of that time, policeman involved,
and every hustle and every city in this country. Okay,
(18:11):
money is exchanging hands, always had, always as well, okay,
and the press is trying to clean us up, right,
And I'm being a trader to the policeman because they
don't like me, because this ain't supposed to say it.
Everybody loves the cooking cops get red boded those and
(18:33):
everybody encourages the proper to be cooking. They won't admitted.
Oh hell, I don't care. Two manion policemen m two
many hustles paroh right. See, that's a world if you
don't know about it. That's what I'm trying to reach
as the world girl't know about. Chief of Police Herberty
Jenkins needed j D for two reasons, to navigate racial tensions,
(18:56):
and because he was an honest cop. But j D
said that jenkins confidence in him was isolated. He felt
that others on the force, the press, and even the
FBI seemed to judge him based on racial stereotypes, which
had been advanced by pop culture for decades. So yeah,
I understand black books to the second, and you state
(19:21):
them so step and fetch it was more or less
kind of a black face caricature. When we begin to
talk about caricatures, particularly black caricatures, what we're talking about
our aspects of minstrel shows. This is not for a candidate.
This happens to be a cod And so there's a
(19:44):
longstanding history in the United States dating back to the
eighteen twenties that deals with minstrel shows and what minstrel
shows are where these exaggerated characters of who black people
were supposed to be that were often performed by white ethnics.
And so they took a fictitious narrative of who black
people were as dumb and ignorant and promiscuous and and
(20:07):
you know, self loathing and slower the uptake. They took
that to be real. And so when we think about
the embodiment of you know, and ain't Jemima Uncle ben
uh step and fetch it, the notion was to promote
a white supremacy that showed that the most unintelligent white
(20:28):
person was smarter than the smartest black person. This was
a real conversation around white supremacy. You don't know, that's
for nothing. They're dumb as white man it's black man. Okay.
At the end of Southern you'll tell you that. Okay,
right now, I had to take off from guys who
(20:48):
couldn't chat max usely, right, my boss. Right, I'm a lawyer.
I think about it. I knew what happened, I knew
about the party, I knew about the people. I understood
the culture of the night in question of the culture
the people there. So now JD is heading up the
investigation into the heist that stole the spotlight and the
(21:12):
headlines from Muhammad Ali's epic comeback fight, and in those
headlines you start to see a very interesting narrative emerge.
Fight fans are invited by engraved invitation two hundred thousand
dollar hold up. Police say, hold up conceived in New
York lottery figure and girlfriends saw it in two hundred
(21:34):
thousand dollar fight. Party plucked by robbers to Chicken Man,
says chicken Man. Who was this Chicken Man? I had
to find out, So I kept digging into more and
more headlines and saw this name Chicken Man pop up
over and over again as the prime suspect who organized
(21:56):
the heist. I asked j D about it, and he
said that his boss, the FBI, and other policemen were
pushing this hustler. Street named Chicken Man as the prime suspect,
but j D wasn't so sure. Chief Chaplains, who at
that time was super detective, believe ah. He said that
(22:18):
he had the most relivable meation in the world. Uh,
that was Chicken Man in his group. That he set
the whole thing up. That was just a buncha boo.
I couldn't tell my boss that, but I told the
chief that. So the Chief said, it's your decision, you
make it, and I did. Chicken Man had been a
(22:43):
person of interest to the Atlanta p D for years
for crimes ranging from bootlegging and drugs to running illegal lotteries.
J d's boss, Chief of Detectives, Charles Chaffin, believed Chicken
Man had organized the after hours party so he had
all the side information he needed to also organize the heist.
(23:04):
But j D didn't believe the heightst originated in Atlanta
at all. In fact, he thought Chicken Man had nothing
to do with it. J D would turn out to
be onto something with that New York connection, and we'll
explore that in more depths throughout the story. But for now.
What's important to remember is that Chicken man, whose real
name was Gordon Williams, was already a big time hustler
(23:26):
making a lot of money in Atlanta. J D believed
it just didn't make sense for him to put all
of that on the line by robbing his own party,
let alone the types of high level gangsters that could
have and would have had him killed. J D had
a moral code. While he was absolutely toughest nails as
(23:46):
a cop and wanting to put away criminals, he would
never even consider penning a crime on someone that didn't
do it, and he resented those above and around him
who would have done just that. I always called myself
a cold, better professional. Now I didn't care who you are.
I love the hated You had nothing to do. Mean
(24:06):
folks in the law. You know my best friend, and
I caught your body. No, I locked you up. You
might waste any man person. I hate it with all
kinds of passion. If you didn't do anything wrong, I
wasn't gonna bother you, and it bothered me the policeman
when in fact trying to get this man killed. I
knew they were gonna kill it, and the police were
(24:27):
going to be responsible because they kept on bless his
name out of the police say an FBI. They thought
he had robbed a black mafia. The figures black hustlers
in this country, some of the toughest men in this country,
some of the dead list men in this country, Guys
who would not hesitate to blow your head off because
you stepped on that shoe. They would have killed it.
(24:50):
And according to the New York Times, that's exactly what
they did Wednesday, October, informed sources associate created with the
police department suggested today that the police believe Williams planned
the robbery to raise funds to repay a large debt.
The sources also said that the Atlanta police now believe
(25:12):
Williams is dead as the result of a contract released
on him Gangland Terminology for an arrangement of his murder,
and over the next six months, more bodies would be
discovered from Atlanta to New York. As I read this
article on microfilm at the Decatur Library, my mind was
racing my main source for this story. The lead investigator
(25:35):
into the heist, Detective J. D. Hudson, didn't believe Chicken
Man had anything to do with the robbery, but now
I find out he's dead. So if Chicken Man didn't
do it, who did? And who killed Chicken Man fighting?
(26:00):
And it's a joint production from My Heart Radio, Will
Packer Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures.
Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer,
James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobson, and Noel Brown.
Supervising producer is Taylor Shicoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown
(26:20):
and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts.
Edited by Matt Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah
Kolonnie Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players.
Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB
News Film and Videotape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University of
(26:41):
Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and David
Davis
I remember so clearly the first time I told this story.
It was to my good friend Johnny at a bar
in Atlanta during the summer of two thousand and three.
After a few bourbon on the rocks, the details were
just flowing out of me. Muhammad Ali was back to
boxing in the fall of nineteen seventy after a three
year suspension for refusing to enter the military draft. There
(00:21):
were celebrities, politician, journalists, and hustlers from all over the
country that converged into Atlanta to celebrate his return. I
told him about a hustler named Gordon Williams, a k a.
Chicken Man, who was throwing the biggest party of his life.
But when his guests walked inside, they were greeted by
seven mask gunmen. Was sawed off shotguns who escorted them
(00:45):
down to the basement, stripped them out of their clothes,
and robbed them of a million dollars in cash and jewelry.
When I was done, Johnny looked at me with a
shocked expression on his face. Slowly, he turned to the
stranger sitting at the barn is left and said, you've
got to hear this story. Then he looked back at
me and demanded, tell it again, Jeff Okay, Johnny here
(01:10):
it is. Why did the press keep following this story?
Mamma Ali, Cassius Clay, there's not one number two. It
was a big robber. You're ready to worry Blackmark. Yeah,
I said they had robbed the blackmark. This fight represented
the brace Muhammad Ali. All the hotels were so loud,
(01:32):
guys had their rolls royces flown to a Maxi beautiful people.
Little bit star Ali was in exile in the boxing community.
He was stripped of his heavyweight title and the big
fight commissions. No one would touch him. They wasn't diving
and they were serious dropped because they hadn't known when
(01:54):
they were robbing. Then they were robbed. So when did
the investigation end? You wanted from my Heart radio and
doghouse Pictures. This is fight Night. I'm Jeff Keithing. Ever
(02:15):
since I was a kid, I've had a passion for
true crime. It all started forty years ago with my
dad in a hotel room in New York City. He
showed me a very r rated film, The French Connection
Behind My Mom's Back. This nine seventies true crime thriller
star Gene Hackman as the fearless detective pop by Doyle
(02:36):
and Fernando Ray as the cunning French heroine smuggler known
as Frog One. It was a classic depiction of cop
versus criminal, cat versus mouse, but also showed the incredibly
thin line between police and the criminals they chase. Needless
to say, I was hooked. Fast forward twenty years later,
(02:58):
my dad told me a true prime story that had
all the same things I loved about that movie. This
one was based in my hometown of Atlanta, Georgia. Another
classic case of cop versus criminal, but this time the
cat protects the mouse. Good morning, Good morning, sir. How
(03:21):
are you doing. I think I'm okay. This is my dad,
Tom Keating. He was in Atlanta the night of the fight.
In fact, he was at the hotel where Muhammad Ali
was staying, and I called him to ask him a
few questions about what it was like, and I would
have been out of my element. And it was just
an overwhelming array of glitter and clothing and colors and
(03:46):
festivities and pomp and circumstance, which later was called the
you know, the most unusual collection of black power and
black money, uh and sports and in history coming together
in a city, in our city, in the city that
I've been in since, so it would have been just
(04:09):
over years later. When I was an aspiring screenwriter in
my early thirties, my dad told me this incredible story
for the very first time. He remembered the headline from
the morning he left on his honeymoon with my mom,
so I dragged him down to the Decatur Library to
find out more. After hours searching through microfilm, we finally
got it. This is from the Atlanta Journal Evening edition,
(04:33):
October ninety. It was written by Orville Gaines and Larry Woods.
The headline reads like this, after fight partygoers robbed of
a hundred thousand in cash jewelry. My dad grinned when
he saw my reaction, and I said to him, this
is going to be my next film. This set me
(04:54):
on a path that led to the podcast you're listening
to right now. The interviews in this show spent is
to four decades and were sourced from all kinds of
things like VHS tapes, microcossette camp orders, phone calls, anything
I could get my hands on. Some of these tapes
were never meant to be heard by anyone but me,
so bear with me because some of the recordings are
(05:15):
higher quality than others. But now many of the people
involved in this story are no longer alive, and I
need you to hear from them, the ones who lived it,
in their own words, so you can truly believe what happened.
After researching several more articles from newspapers around the country,
(05:38):
I was able to zero in on one of the
top cops on the case, J D. Hudson, and with
the help that the Public Affairs Division of the Atlanta
Police Department, I tracked him down and got an interview.
On July one, two thousand two, I parked my STUV
on a street in southwest Atlanta and walked to the
(05:59):
front of J. D. Hudson's house. I knocked lightly on
the door and waited. When he finally came out, j
D immediately reminded me of the character Shaft played by
Richard Rowntree in the nineteen seventies crime films Shit, Chef's
his name, Chef's his game. He blocked the entrance while
puffing on a white out miniature cigar and blew a
(06:22):
big smoke ring that engulfed my head. He said, I
don't have to talk to you. I don't have to
talk to anybody, now get inside. While I was grateful
to escape the heat, j D was not particularly welcoming.
He didn't say a word as he led me back
to his living room and plopped down into his worn recliner.
(06:45):
Turned his attention back to the Williams sisters playing at
Wimbledon on TV. J D made it clear he would
not be turning off the game, though we did lower
the volume and notch is kind of a throwaway courtesy.
I pressed the record button and I asked my first quest,
gen what happened the night of the robbery? All right,
(07:10):
take me back to this party, because I'm so confused
about the point I think. Let me try to get
that you thankless birthday. J D told me about a
hustler named Fireball who asked his friend Chicken Man, toast
a big party in Atlanta after the Ali Corey fight.
Who's who of hustlers and gangsters from New York, Philly,
(07:30):
Miami and other big cities around the country were all invited.
Chicken Man wanted this to be like New Year's Eve,
the Super Bowl and Marty Grawl all rolled into one
big party and matter after the frightenes. Okay, when you
talk about a hustles party, rich very rich people, heaven,
(07:53):
the food you can eat right out of you can
drink Okay, Okay, that the big chatter they depend the
girls man. Okay, movie kind of stuff and expects him
and how about a day you know? Right? J D
had risen through the ranks of the Atlanta Police Department
(08:15):
to become the first black man in charge of internal affairs.
He also knew the world of these hustlers, and he
personally knew several of the people directly involved in the
party and the robbery. In fact, he grew up with
some of them in a predominantly black neighborhood in Atlanta
known as Buttermilk Bottom. I grew at an Atlanta the
(08:37):
neighborhood known as the Whole foot Water but that was
baptized at age twelve and the Butt Street Baptist Stretch
from Butler Street. I looked at the Salmon School. There
was some check Jackson and d l being on a Wednesday.
J D knew the world of hustlers and low level
(08:57):
criminals from an early age, but he was also front
and center in the earliest days of the civil rights movement.
Also that I had contact with Andy. I'm starting to
cooking and King and I were friends. And yeah, most
people in the movement Lenne King then Brown as we
grew up together, griping in my MC together. The Butler
(09:20):
Street y m c A was a very important institution
located uh in the Sweet Arban district of the Old
Fourth Ward. This is Dr Maurice Hobson, Atlanta historian, scholar
and author of the award winning book The Legend of
the Black Mecca, Politics and Class and the Making of
Modern Atlanta. Though it served, as you know, a venue
(09:41):
for the young Man's Christian Association, it also served as
the venue for the Hungry Club, which was the black
political sphere in Atlanta. So any political figure that was
interested in courting the black vote had to come to
the Butler Street y m c A. As with most
places in the United States, African Americans were designated it
two low lying areas that oftentimes with flood it was
(10:04):
undesirable land because standing water or stagnant water that made
it more accessible for yellow fever malaria across the American South.
If you lived in that area, that was called the bottom.
So every black community across the American South, there's always
the bottoms, and it usually floods. That particular area becomes
very much a haven. As to how Black America really
(10:25):
begins to congregate, j D never intended to be a cop,
but when he decided to take the officers exam, he
aced it. He was destined for a life enforcing the
law as one of Atlanta's first black policeman. And I
sat down and picks in and made the highes bo
that side. It came up faces. I was one in
(10:47):
the chief praade with Herbert Jenkins, and he sware me
in as a Niga Polies, sware me in as a Nigatholies.
J D dealt with the same struggles that many black
men and women faced in Atlanta during the Civil Rights movement,
(11:07):
and the chief of Police, Herberty Jenkins, who swore j
D n using a racial slur, would develop into a
progressive leader defending the black citizens in the city. You
noticed I I didn't notice it. I just thought about
a respect because I'm used later when he evolved and
(11:28):
founded being one of the most liberal police chiefs in
the country. There's no accident that the headquarters of all
the civil rights movements located in the Atlantic because the
protection the lad Abo Atlanta said the government through her
Virginia's he would not allow whites to attack rights in Amata,
and he demanded were not have arresting. Atlanta was not
(11:50):
gonna be torn about our rights. Now. We were restrictive.
We could not arrest right people. We could not arrest
white people in Atlanta. When the first black cops were
commissioned by the City of Atlanta, it was seen as
purely ceremonial and symbolic. However, the power bestowed upon them
as police officers had little to no effect. They had
(12:12):
no real policing powers. They could not arrest white people.
They were not even allowed to use the locker rooms
at the Atlanta Police station, and so they had to
get dressed at the Butler Street Y m c A.
And we worked uh all of the Avenue Van City
far as the avenue whatever. That was gradually expanded, but
(12:36):
we started it was very restrictive. Things eight hours. We
were not allowed to drive through his uniform through the
white community. We were not allowed to well our uniforms
home made defense on white prison. It was fascinating. You know,
you're a guy who had unprecedented authority in the back community,
(12:59):
no black man and whield the authority and in latter
in the city. As a matter of fact, that a
black policeman did, people did what you told him to do.
People ask you for information, that you were the webserviction there.
People smiled and waved at you. As a matter of fact,
people who followed us around us that we want as
every one on. Black people were very proud about. Yes
(13:21):
they were. Black communities of Atlanta were extremely proud of
these black police officers. And one of the things that
was characteristic of these police officers is that many of
them were from the community in which they were police,
and so there was a trust between black communities and
the black police officers. And the rules and laws changed,
you still had hostility, had resentment. Ah ask a couple
(13:47):
of guys who didn't want to work from me, who
were white. Once they wake from me, they want to
leave men. I was hin the top of the hill,
I was hot, stunned, I was police celebrity. That was
the vie White brothers on the police department. He's a
(14:07):
big to write with me. So it makes some cases.
J D had been dealing with inequality and racial tension
on the Atlanta police force for years. In fact, early
on he wasn't allowed to arrest white people, but he
would eventually be faced with an even more complicated dilemma
having to arrest black people who were out fighting for
(14:30):
his rights as a black man. This tension came to
a head at a place called Lebs Diner. Here's Dr
Hobson so. Lebs Diner was a New York delicatessen that
was located across from what is now the rialto Unlucky
and Forsyth in the early nineties sixties. It was a
whites only restaurant with the students of the Atlanta Student movement.
(14:50):
It was one of the restaurants where black students would
come and promote non violent direct action. And so this
was one of the lunch counters that they would go
to and to be seated in a respectful manner, and
usually the police would show up, had to arrest people.
Uh done. It's a rights movement who were fighting for
(15:10):
my freedom, half of my right to vote, my right
to be a citizen at the resting. You know, so,
I guess I should be a very bitter man. Some
of the challenges of a black police officer was how
to earned the respect of their constituency, but at the
same time, how to enforce the laws which sometimes are
(15:32):
created to marginalize this franchise, criminalized and demonized the same communities,
and which the from Oftentimes, black police officers may have
been harder on black communities then white police officers, because
what the black police officers were trying to do was
trying to show the white establishment that they were not
like some of these criminals in the black community. Being
(15:53):
one of the first black police officers in the country
was very empowering for j D. But it also presented
a constant dream of moral dilemmas. As he rose through
the ranks of the Atlanta p D, his job became
increasingly complicated, a delicate balancing act between his responsibilities and
limitations as a black cop. By seventy j D. Hudson
(16:23):
had been promoted to the head of internal affairs for
the Atlanta Police Department, having risen through the ranks more slowly,
he says, because he was never one to suck up
to his superiors. It was the same year that j
D was given an incredible assignment to guard Muhammad Ali,
a k A. Cassius Clay. In the days leading up
(16:43):
to his triumphant return to boxing, I had the responsibility
of Goden Cassius Clay, because that in about five thousand
threats against the Slight. So I had been with him
all day, and I cared him to the fight and
led him into the range. Matter of fact, I got
(17:06):
beat up. See his head is on around me and
I was walking in front of it. God was practically
only hid and so I was a debate that stayed
with him for twenty whiles a day, seven days a week.
The time he got into and he left, I ran
(17:26):
into all kinds of people rich and the famous and
all that stuff. But j D had no idea about
the million dollar heist which was brewing behind the scenes
of Ali's comeback fight, or that less than twenty four
hours later the chief of police would assign him the
case of his life. J D's assignment made perfect sense.
(17:47):
He was the best man for the job and one
of the only men on the force who was able
to navigate the world of both cops and criminals, and
he understood the relationship between the two. Were there any
police than they were in love to, you know, illegal
activities back in the seventies of that time, policeman involved,
and every hustle and every city in this country. Okay,
(18:11):
money is exchanging hands, always had, always as well, okay,
and the press is trying to clean us up, right,
And I'm being a trader to the policeman because they
don't like me, because this ain't supposed to say it.
Everybody loves the cooking cops get red boded those and
(18:33):
everybody encourages the proper to be cooking. They won't admitted.
Oh hell, I don't care. Two manion policemen m two
many hustles paroh right. See, that's a world if you
don't know about it. That's what I'm trying to reach
as the world girl't know about. Chief of Police Herberty
Jenkins needed j D for two reasons, to navigate racial tensions,
(18:56):
and because he was an honest cop. But j D
said that jenkins confidence in him was isolated. He felt
that others on the force, the press, and even the
FBI seemed to judge him based on racial stereotypes, which
had been advanced by pop culture for decades. So yeah,
I understand black books to the second, and you state
(19:21):
them so step and fetch it was more or less
kind of a black face caricature. When we begin to
talk about caricatures, particularly black caricatures, what we're talking about
our aspects of minstrel shows. This is not for a candidate.
This happens to be a cod And so there's a
(19:44):
longstanding history in the United States dating back to the
eighteen twenties that deals with minstrel shows and what minstrel
shows are where these exaggerated characters of who black people
were supposed to be that were often performed by white ethnics.
And so they took a fictitious narrative of who black
people were as dumb and ignorant and promiscuous and and
(20:07):
you know, self loathing and slower the uptake. They took
that to be real. And so when we think about
the embodiment of you know, and ain't Jemima Uncle ben
uh step and fetch it, the notion was to promote
a white supremacy that showed that the most unintelligent white
(20:28):
person was smarter than the smartest black person. This was
a real conversation around white supremacy. You don't know, that's
for nothing. They're dumb as white man it's black man. Okay.
At the end of Southern you'll tell you that. Okay,
right now, I had to take off from guys who
(20:48):
couldn't chat max usely, right, my boss. Right, I'm a lawyer.
I think about it. I knew what happened, I knew
about the party, I knew about the people. I understood
the culture of the night in question of the culture
the people there. So now JD is heading up the
investigation into the heist that stole the spotlight and the
(21:12):
headlines from Muhammad Ali's epic comeback fight, and in those
headlines you start to see a very interesting narrative emerge.
Fight fans are invited by engraved invitation two hundred thousand
dollar hold up. Police say, hold up conceived in New
York lottery figure and girlfriends saw it in two hundred
(21:34):
thousand dollar fight. Party plucked by robbers to Chicken Man,
says chicken Man. Who was this Chicken Man? I had
to find out, So I kept digging into more and
more headlines and saw this name Chicken Man pop up
over and over again as the prime suspect who organized
(21:56):
the heist. I asked j D about it, and he
said that his boss, the FBI, and other policemen were
pushing this hustler. Street named Chicken Man as the prime suspect,
but j D wasn't so sure. Chief Chaplains, who at
that time was super detective, believe ah. He said that
(22:18):
he had the most relivable meation in the world. Uh,
that was Chicken Man in his group. That he set
the whole thing up. That was just a buncha boo.
I couldn't tell my boss that, but I told the
chief that. So the Chief said, it's your decision, you
make it, and I did. Chicken Man had been a
(22:43):
person of interest to the Atlanta p D for years
for crimes ranging from bootlegging and drugs to running illegal lotteries.
J d's boss, Chief of Detectives, Charles Chaffin, believed Chicken
Man had organized the after hours party so he had
all the side information he needed to also organize the heist.
(23:04):
But j D didn't believe the heightst originated in Atlanta
at all. In fact, he thought Chicken Man had nothing
to do with it. J D would turn out to
be onto something with that New York connection, and we'll
explore that in more depths throughout the story. But for now.
What's important to remember is that Chicken man, whose real
name was Gordon Williams, was already a big time hustler
(23:26):
making a lot of money in Atlanta. J D believed
it just didn't make sense for him to put all
of that on the line by robbing his own party,
let alone the types of high level gangsters that could
have and would have had him killed. J D had
a moral code. While he was absolutely toughest nails as
(23:46):
a cop and wanting to put away criminals, he would
never even consider penning a crime on someone that didn't
do it, and he resented those above and around him
who would have done just that. I always called myself
a cold, better professional. Now I didn't care who you are.
I love the hated You had nothing to do. Mean
(24:06):
folks in the law. You know my best friend, and
I caught your body. No, I locked you up. You
might waste any man person. I hate it with all
kinds of passion. If you didn't do anything wrong, I
wasn't gonna bother you, and it bothered me the policeman
when in fact trying to get this man killed. I
knew they were gonna kill it, and the police were
(24:27):
going to be responsible because they kept on bless his
name out of the police say an FBI. They thought
he had robbed a black mafia. The figures black hustlers
in this country, some of the toughest men in this country,
some of the dead list men in this country, Guys
who would not hesitate to blow your head off because
you stepped on that shoe. They would have killed it.
(24:50):
And according to the New York Times, that's exactly what
they did Wednesday, October, informed sources associate created with the
police department suggested today that the police believe Williams planned
the robbery to raise funds to repay a large debt.
The sources also said that the Atlanta police now believe
(25:12):
Williams is dead as the result of a contract released
on him Gangland Terminology for an arrangement of his murder,
and over the next six months, more bodies would be
discovered from Atlanta to New York. As I read this
article on microfilm at the Decatur Library, my mind was
racing my main source for this story. The lead investigator
(25:35):
into the heist, Detective J. D. Hudson, didn't believe Chicken
Man had anything to do with the robbery, but now
I find out he's dead. So if Chicken Man didn't
do it, who did? And who killed Chicken Man fighting?
(26:00):
And it's a joint production from My Heart Radio, Will
Packer Media and Doghouse Pictures in association with Psychopia Pictures.
Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Will Packer,
James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobson, and Noel Brown.
Supervising producer is Taylor Shicoyne. Story editors are Noel Brown
(26:20):
and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating and Jim Roberts.
Edited by Matt Owen. Mixing and sound designed by Jeremiah
Kolonnie Prescott. Music written and performed by The Diamond Street Players.
Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio archives courtesy of WSB
News Film and Videotape Collection, Brown Media Archives, University of
(26:41):
Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to Dr Maurice Hobson and David
Davis
Host
Jeff Keating
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