Jeanette Epps (NASA Astronaut / Aerospace Engineer) • #337 - Films To Be Buried With with Brett Goldstein

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look how it is only films to be buried with. Hello,
and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
is Brett Goldstein and my comedian and actor, a writer
director at Moonbeam, and I love films. As Jedediah Jenkins

(00:22):
once said, the curious are always in for a good story,
which is why I'll forever be inspired by Curious George
three Back to the Jungle. It's a real classic. Every
week I'm by a special guest over. I tell them
they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life
through the films that meant that most of them. Previous
guests include Barry Jenkins, Kevin Smith, Sharon Stone, and even
said Blambles. But this week it is the amazing and

(00:45):
recently returned to Earth Real life world astronaut Jeanette Epps.
All the episodes of Shrinking season two and season one
are now available on Apple TV. Get caught up on
all of them. You will fucking love it. Head over
to the Patreon at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldsteam,
where you get an extra twenty twenty five minutes with Jeanette.
We talk secrets. We talked secrets of the Universe. We

(01:07):
took beginnings and endings. You get the whole episode uncut,
and Adfrey and does a video. Check it out over
at patreon dot com Forward slash Brett Goldstein. So. Jeanette
Epps is known for her career as an astronaut, her
role as a NASA mission specialist, and her history making
appointment as the first African American woman to be assigned
to a long duration mission aboard the International Space Station.

(01:29):
Her accomplishments have earned her numerous accolades, including being named
one of the one hundred most Influential Women in Space
and receiving multiple honors for her contributions to science and engineering.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I met Jeanette. I mean it was mad.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Jeanette Epps was in space at the International Space Station
and she had a request in which, for some mad reason,
she wanted to talk to me on Zoom.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
So I zoomed with her.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
She was floating around in space with an incredible conversation,
and amazingly, she told me she was a fan of
the podcast, and I said to her, when she gets
back to Earth, she has to do it. She got
back to Earth and we recorded this. We did this
on zoom. A couple of weeks ago. I think it's
one of the all time great episodes. I mean, it
takes ages before we get to a film because I'm
asking her what it's like to be in fucking space?

(02:13):
Do you know what I mean? How often do you
get that opportunity? This was truly a very very special
and incredible experience, and I really hope you enjoy it
as much as I did, So that as it for now,
I very much hope you enjoy episode three hundred and
thirty seven of Films to be Buried With. Hello, and

(02:40):
welcome to Films to be Buried With. It is me
Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by a scientist,
a skywalker, a moon grazer, an International Space stationer, a
floating human, a person who literally if I's gravity, a hero,

(03:03):
a legend, a Marylander and earth Lander, and a space person.
I can't believe she's here. She's a real genuine astronaut,
the very first astronaut to be on the show. Could
you believe it? She's right here, She's back on Earth. Please,
welcome to the show. It's the amazing. It's to that EPs.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
You make me sound so.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Great, pretty fucking grin Jeanette, welcome home.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm so glad we're doing this. Shall we explain how
I know you?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Sure? I had watched Ted Lasso, and I watched the
entire season, and I thought it was phenomenal. And when
now did I wasn't setting you up to say that
you were not. But you know, one thing I can't
say is I did bring the shirt back unbelievable. So,
in watching that show, I thought, if I had to

(03:56):
select someone to chat with while in orbit, I would
like to talk with the person who played where I
can and just get insights from them because it was
written so well. All the characters were so well developed,
and I said, I would love to chat with someone
like that while I'm in space, and that wouldn't just
be entertaining, but who would be insightful? And so I

(04:17):
selected you, and NASA reached out to you and we
had a great conversation while I was in space. So
it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
So for the listener at home, if I get a
message from NASA saying there's someone in this space station
who would like to talk to you, I said, yes, absolutely,
what did they need? And we had a zoom while
you were floating around the space station. And I felt
bad because you had requested a conversation with me, But
all I did was ask you everything and make you
show me around the space station. But it was fucking

(04:47):
amazing and I wish people could see your life. But
let me ask you all the questions that I want
to know that everyone wants to know. How long were
you at this space station?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
I was there for two hundred and thirty three days,
so almost eight months.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, almost eight months. And the whole time what I
saw that you showed me. You're floating the whole.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Time time, never sitting down, never resting your head.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
You strap yourself into a sort of body bag to
sleep right, and it's strapped to the wall.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
You're upright. Yep, exactly eight months.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
And the toilet situation, Yes.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I did show you the toilet, did you did. It's
a shot back. It's basically a back and clean.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
It's so fascinating and you and your flight it looks
it looks very fun to move around like that, like
you're flying like a saber. That looks fun. Does it
stay fun? Is that a bit fun?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
It is fun? The only thing about zero gravity that
I'm this was a good shower because the water doesn't
pour down on you, it just kind of floats. So
a good shower was all I missed.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
So what what how did you watch yourself just.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
With like towels, well the water when you so water floats.
So what ends up happening is when you put it
on your skin, it just kind of spreads out. You
kind of wash off, and then you have to tee
off again because you've got to get all the water
off of you. Whereas here the water kind of flows
down you kind of like fill the dirt washing away.

(06:26):
In space, you kind of make sure you rub it
all off.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
So tell me that. So you were there, you were
in space. What I didn't know because I hadn't read
the story when you showed me around you you introduced
me to some people, and there were two people you
said were visitors, and I didn't realize that they were
the two people who had been Yes on Starlight. Forgive
me forgetting the name wrong. Starlight was it?

Speaker 2 (06:49):
It was a starliner, Yeah, the Boeing star Starliner.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yes, they came to the space. They were supposed to
be there for two days and they ended up. Are
they still there?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
They are still there? They were supposed to when they came.
They were supposed to be there at those eight days,
that was the max. And then you know, two months later,
three months later, and they're still there. They do not
come back home until April. So yeah, yeah, how are
they hoping? And how was it with them? Well, oh no,

(07:19):
they are, Sonny and Butch a lot of fun. They
added added a whole new dynamic to the space station
while they were there, and it was Sunny is always
a ball of joy, as you could see when she
was entering the space station. And Butch is the consonant,
you know, mister fix it. So we were pretty well
together and we had a lot of fun at the

(07:40):
same time.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
So it was and they're they're in good spirits given
they aren't going home for la time.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
The people who work here on the ground, they're doing
their best to make sure that they're fully employed and
have lots of things to do. They have time to
exercise and whatever they need. We could try to upmass
on like the next thevehicle that a doctor station, so
when we I'm not sure when they'll get the next
stranch of goodies on orbit, but we try our best

(08:08):
to make sure they're happy. They get to talk to
their family every day if they want to like participate
in things on Earth, virtually sure that they have all
of those things, so that you know, it is kind
of a you know, it kind of sucks that you
know they's but it also it's also once in a
lifetime thing and it's a unique experience that they'll have

(08:28):
lots to talk about when they come back.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
How long does it take to get to the space
station once.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
You take up, so it all depends on the vehicle
that you end up riding on. So like the Soy used,
it could take four hours once they launch, four hours
they die, so they only do like two and a
half orbits and then they dock for us because we
flew on the Dragon. We were crewate on the Dragon
SpaceX vehicle. We launched, then we had phasing. We had

(08:54):
thirty hours of phasing and meaning we had to get
into position in order to dock to the station. And
so it all depends on the vehicle and the way
that they've Most of the vehicles are autonomous, but it's
based on the way that they've programmed the vehicle to
autonomously fly to station. So we had thirty hours of
feazing before we could actually dock a station. You're incredible.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Tell me this. You're in that space station with five people,
seven people there.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
So at one point in time there were up twelve
people up there, so we had quite a few people
at one time, but it would get down to like
three Russians, and then we have four people in the
US segment and so seven people. And then we had
two visitors that made it nine. Had two more visitors
come that made it eleven. Oh, we had a couple
of visitors. So the most we had at one point

(09:44):
in time was twelve people.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
It has such a long time to be in an
inclined space with people, whoever they are. How do you
cope with that part of it? That's the part I
think I would find that how it is well.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
I think most people who are selected they understand that
they have to be very flexible in a da And
even though the people that you're with are not your family,
they're not necessarily your friend, but you have a mission
in common, and so you kind of rally around the
fact that we have this great mission between us. We
can talk about that and actually end up having a
good time. I'm one person who you know, not one person,

(10:18):
but several people I think you met some of them,
like Tracy Dyson and Sonny william Sonny is one of
the people who were She was on the star Liner.
So we all kind of, you know, we would do
our daily work, help each other as we need, and
then nighttime we have dinner together and we'd have great conversations,

(10:38):
try to laugh a lot, make sure we're keeping in
contact with the earth as well. But you know, sometimes
comms didn't work, so it would just be the group
of us together, chatting and making jokes.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
And did you ever get sick and did you ever
get depressed?

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Were you ever like I want to be aligned to that.
I am, well, so, I guess because I'm an introvert.
You know, in the evenings, at about nine thirty or ten,
I would retreat to my crew quarters and you shut
the door and you could have a bit of a
loone time. I was very fortunate. I never got sick
in space. I mean, I always had this ongoing thing
with my sinuses. But that's because dust floats. Everything floats,

(11:20):
and you're breathing it in. So most people would have
some kind of congestion because you're breathing in a lot
of stuff that floats around. So I was really fortunate.
I was never truly sick on orbit, and you know
of us are pretty healthy, so no one really got sick.
Some thing's happen, you know, someone may get a cut
and they We did have one person cut themselves and

(11:41):
had to have a few stitches. Things floating around, drops
float around and you catch it and it doesn't float everywhere. Yeah,
and so we we've had a couple of minor accidents
and things like that. But you know, our mission was
kind of a little crazy. It was unusual in that week,

(12:02):
and so it will everyone who goes there. We're just
the crew that is on deck and on watch. You know,
we take care of the station for however many months
were there and we trade out for with the next group.
But things happened, like we had a Russian satellite that
broke up in orbit and the big pieces were coming
right at the space station and it could puncture a

(12:22):
hole in it. So we were awaken in the middle
of the night told that the satellite had broken up
and components of it was heading for the station. So
we had to go safe even and so one of
the crew, our crewmates, butch one of the new guys.
He in the middle of the night came up banging
on the door, beging on the door. Wake up, wake up,
Safeva and safe Hava. And that meant, you know, you
kind of wake up out of this tea thirty three

(12:45):
o'clock in the morning and rush to your vehicle, strap
in and wait to see if the pieces passed by
or if it depressurizes the station. We were fortunate it
just passed right by us and no hole in the.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Station, So sorry. If it had made a held in
the station, you're flying away.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Well we would have had to undock and fly away
and then whatever happened to the station happened. Yeah, it
would have been a pretty bad day. We would have
had to reassess, can we redock, can we save the station?
Is this you know? Does everyone leave properly? And are
they safe? So there's a lot of things. That's if
you get a rapid depressurization of the space station, what

(13:26):
is the air up there? Is it coming? Is it filtered? Like?

Speaker 1 (13:28):
What how are you breathing of there?

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Well, so what they do up mass they have to
send nitrogen and oxygen, So we have basically seventy years
percent nitrogen and twenty percent oxygen and the rest is
usually like some micro constituents of other gases, but it's
all up mass. And so the Russian segment they actually
have a system to make oxygen and help pressurize the

(13:53):
station that way. So there's different ways that we produce oxygen,
and you know, we use certain ways and certain things
that we used to either make water, make oxygen, and
just try to provide an atmosphere that is very similar
to what's here on Earth. Even you know, I mentioned water,
but the humidity levels even so the lot that is done,

(14:18):
everything's artificial, except we don't have grab any.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
How often, if ever, were you scared.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Well, so two of us to me this two of
the scariest days on orbit was basically that when we
had to safe Haven and you're not really scared because
you trained for these things. You just go into muscle
memory and you just go do what you're supposed to
do because we've trained so much for emergencies. And then
you know, the day that we had a leak, so
two people were going out to do a spacewalk and

(14:46):
one person ended up having a leak water leak, and
there's it's called an umbilical that attaches so it was
pushing out water and she had to basically push it
out to open space and it froze immediately. So I
was kind of scary because she had to basically close
reclose the She opened the hatch and so she had
to close the hatch, but the hatch hat ice likely

(15:08):
building them around it because of the leak, and so
she had to get the hatch closed, get the umbilical
attached to her suit, and get back in. So going
through all the steps she had to do was kind
of like, you know, she's she's got a lot to overcome.
I mean, ice was building up on her gloves, her
helmet was fogging up, and then we had to try

(15:29):
to get them back into the station. And thank god,
things went really well because once she got everything connected
back up, we could repressurize the hatch where they were
located and get them out of there and get the
suit fixed. We did not go to walk. Yeah did
you have you done this guy walk? Because you no.

(15:51):
Unfortunately on this mission, no one got a chance to
do a spacewalk, so it was bitter sweet. But we
did a lot of work to try to get ready
for them, and you know, it didn't go but that's okay.
We we're glad that things worked out where everyone was safe,
the stage is safe, and the work that we were
going to do, they we can do it subsequently, hopefully

(16:12):
at the end of this month. The people who were
on Starliner me do with the spacewalks that we yes,
really if that goes. Yeah, they're veteran spacewalkers. So how
many times have you been to space? This was my
first time? This was it? Okay, yeah, this is would
you like? Will you?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Will you? And would you like to do more?

Speaker 2 (16:33):
So I'm not sure if we have a lot of
people in the pipeline who need to go to space.
Everyone needs to get experience, and then the people who
have experienced need to then they should go back. And
you know, everything that I learned over two hundred and
thirty three days is, you know, there's a lot of
valuable information that should be passed on to all the

(16:53):
next space flyers. So as we go in, you'll have
the experience going with newbies. And who knows if I'll
get a chance to go again, but I would love to.
I would like to. Whether or not they will, we
don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
So on this on your mission. This is why I
understand is there constantly experiments going on and what kind
of things are you trying to discover or figure out
while you're there.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
So the coolest part is that there's always experiments going on.
Like I always talk about the immunity assay experiment. That's
one with the European Space Agency. That's where we collect
our blood. Then we have to do all this processing
to try to figure out what is our immune function
throughout the space. Are how we're in space and so
we basically take our own blood. We have to centrifuge it, incubated,

(17:43):
do all these different things, freeze it, and then back
here on Earth they'll go through and they'll look at
our blood before we flew, during flight, and then post flight,
and they need to really kind of go through and
describe what our immune function, how it changes through space.
And this would be the first thing. Well, we should
know a lot about it, but we never really collected

(18:06):
all the data while in space. With the new tools
that we have, we can look at the entire immune
function from beginning to end now and this is a
new experiment, so we're collecting a lot of data that's
one thing. We look at different materials to protect from radiation.
We look at how fluids behave in space because I
don't know if I got a chance to show you
how water behaves just like motases, Yeah, those sphears that

(18:32):
just float around. So studying how fluids behave a lot
of different material science projects that we're doing a combustion,
a lot of DNA sequencing, stem cell research, and even
looking at how do you fabricate biofabrication facility that we
have there. They're looking at how to assemble cells like

(18:54):
we had cardiac cells, how do you assemble them to
build art is that you can in the future you
can fabricate like different organs in space and you know
they'll grow the way they do like in vitro, like
in zero gravity and instead of like here on Earth
because of gravity, you get one layer of cells that grow.

(19:16):
You can grow things three dimensionally and so you can
get whole components. Yeah, it's kind of cool. So that's
there's a lot. But the other thing that we do
is we also maintain the station. Like someone has to
fix the toilet when it breaks, and that happens in
the water processor because yesterday's coffee is today's coffee kind

(19:37):
of mentality. So you always have to make sure that
the toilet is working. And then the processor water processor
water reclamation system. Really that's always always needs fixing. If
we am our exercise devices break, we have to fix those.
If our carbon dioxide removal system breaks, we have to
fix that. And then some things we're just changing filters

(19:57):
and making sure they continue to work. You have done
a lot of maintenance on orbit and a lot of research.
And then the third thing that we all have to
do just about every day is exercise. So lifting, Yeah,
what is your exercise? So we have this advanced resistive
exercise device and it's basically weightlifting, So lots of splots
and lots of deadlifts to load the bones that we

(20:19):
don't do all for two hundred and thirty three days
or however long some people will be there.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
So it's like, is it like air pressure resistance?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah? Is a weight? Isn't a weight? Right? Exactly? This
is definitely working against a vacuum and a cylinder, and
so they've measured it precisely so that you can lift
weights effectively. And you know, when I came back, they
did a dexa scan to see how much bone loss
I had. I had only about five to seven percent.
And that's actually really good because every moment you're not exercising,

(20:52):
you're shetting, you're losing a little bit of bone density. Yeah,
so weightlifting every day to load the heaviest bone in
your body, which is like in your legs and your pelvis,
just to make sure you don't I mean, your bones
are very important in your immune system as well, so
you want to pin sure you're exercising just about every
day and do a little cardio as well. So we

(21:14):
have a stationary bike and we have a treadmill. So yeah,
in order to stay healthy, those are you have to exercise.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
So how many hours of exercise a day would you do?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Well? What they give us on the on the timeline
is about two and a half hours, but that's for
set up. You got to change your clothes, set up,
do the exercise, then go on to the next one
and then clean up. So you get about two and
a half hours. So your day is pretty much past.
It is filled. So those are really the three things

(21:46):
that we did do exercise, do experiments, and maintain the station.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
Did you sleep well? In space.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
I slept better in space than I do here. Well,
we were so exhausted after a full day. You just
kind of float there and you can sleep pretty well.
I mean you're not like sleeping on your arm and
then you wake up and you're like, oh my arm
or yeah, your neck is like in a weird position.
So you sleep without any pressures on your body.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
So can you grow by in density? Back this five
to seven percent you've lost, it's coming back.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Oh yeah, so once gravity, once you hit gravity, your
body starts rebuilding. And it's kind of interesting because when
I landed.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, tell me everything about landing after this time.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Well, it was amazing because you know, we're coming back
screaming through the atmosphere. You know, when we start filling
the load the geese and it is something crazy. And
then you know, as we're coming in, we go through
this blackout period because we're coming through the atmosphere and
there's a lot of friction and it creates a plasma,

(22:53):
so we can't talk to the ground, so we have
basically it comes out. Then as we enter the atmosphere
we can talk the ground again. But then all of
a sudden we get we hear this loud pop and
those are the drogue pair of shees to slow us down.
And then next thing, another pop, and then the main
pair of shoes come out. And then as we're coming in,
we're screened in. You would think that you would fill

(23:14):
these jerks jerky movements as the pair shoes come out. No,
it was pretty smooth. I mean, you feel the g's
and you're kind of like expecting that, but there was
something that was so crazy and where you feel like
you're gonna, you know, just puke or something. No, it's
like an amusement park ride. You fill the g's. You
have to intentionally breathe when you fell, like four g's

(23:35):
on your body. Yeah, we kind of practiced that before
we fly anyway, Then you hit the water. The reason
we were stranded, we weren't stranded, we were on orbit
for so long was because we were waiting for the
weather to kind of clear and the water sea state
was pretty calm. So we hit the water and it's
like it wasn't like a crash or anything. You just

(23:55):
kind of hit the water and you're like, oh, okay,
that wasn't so bad. And then the upriting bags you
could build a vehicle kind of rotating around to upright,
and it was amazing, but it wasn't as scary or
you know, all these jerky movements. It was pretty we
landed and we're in a call. And one thing I

(24:16):
felt immediately it was like, oh my god, my head
weighs about a thousand pounds, was because I had held
it up in eight months. So we're like, we're just
refiring and starting to get back acquainted with having to
hold up ahead and actually walking was kind of weird
because your inner ears are going crazy because no gravity

(24:38):
acting on a great month, and so.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
You oh, yeah, what happens when you first walked? Are
you able to Were you falling over?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Well? Yes, I was definitely like over because so in
my brain the way things were working was that I'm
moving at a normal speed, but really I was moving
too fast and my body would just keep going and
then you fall. Pretty much. You always had to have
someone around you kind of make sure you didn't fall
over for at least the first three days. So when

(25:08):
you return it is not as clamorous. You're able to
walk and do all these things, but some of the
things you experienced you hadn't experienced in eight months, so
they're kind of new again.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
But how was the first shower?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
That must be glorious, right, amazing? And so I think
it was two days. So we came back on Friday,
like right after two or so in the morning on Friday, Saturday,
you know, we're kind of reacclimating to everything. And then
Sunday we actually I ended up going to dinner at

(25:45):
one of my favorite restaurants here in Houston. And so
you're really back to normal and able to like kind
of hold yourself up even though you're exhausted the first
second or third day that you're back. And so some people,
you know, like the day that they returned there, okay.
For me, it was like the second day that Sunday,

(26:05):
we were out at dinner and I felt, okay, I
was actually able to eat, you know, most of the
half of the dinner and yeah, what are you eating
in space?

Speaker 1 (26:14):
You're eating like freeze dried stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yes, it was right, and space is it? You know,
it's you're kind of duped into thinking, oh it's so good.
You're like, oh my god, they got it. But it
wasn't bad food. It was edible. It was not like
the food and space was is not like it's just
oh gross, I can't eat any of this. No, it's

(26:38):
actually edible food. It's just not like, Okay, your favorite
restaurant makes your favorite you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Is it do you cook in space? I've never understood this.
Is it just packets you're eating out?

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Most of us just packets every now and then we
do things like at one point they sent up a
kit to make pizza, so they sent up Acruss. You
can kind of spread the sauce on it, even put
like peppers and pepperoni and some cheese on top. And
because everything flows, you can kind of wrap it in
boil and put it sideways in the oven and heat

(27:13):
it up. So you know, most of the food though,
is in these packets that you heat up or they're
freeze dried and you have to rehydrate it. And that's
like eighty five to ninety percent of the food. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
So, and drinking a glass of water must have been
fucking great.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yep. See that's the thing. Being able to pick up
a glass and things like that and the water kind
of stay in the glass.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
That was glorious too. I can ask you a big question,
sure if you are okay it I saw one on
both sides of it. Was there any experience of you're
so removed? You are literally removed from the world, and
you were removed for a long long time. I think
things are probably different now than they used to be,
because you do we zoomed new in space. So you

(27:58):
did get to like connect with family and with your
man most days, right, yeah, and so you have this connection,
but you're very far away. It's not easy, as we
know from the two people still strying to still like
go I just want to go home. Did you have
any moments of sort of profound I guess sadness or homesickness,
or like, fuck, this is too too long too, you know,

(28:19):
did you ever have that?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
There were several things. I mean, there's always stuff like
that where you know you and it comes out of
nowhere and even expected, and you're kind of like, especially
for me, it would happen on the weekends because I
didn't I wasn't distracted with all the work that we
had to do, and so whenever we had work on
the weekend, I was kind of happy in a sense.

(28:41):
But when you were sitting there and you're kind of alone,
and then you know, your sister, My sister would call,
or my niece would call, or Brian would call, and
then that's when I would start missing being and like
being at events and things that they were doing for me.
The big thing is that I knew that, you know,
I'm only here temporarily, so I have to consciously stay

(29:04):
in the moment because I have to treat this like
I may never get back here again. So the moments
we were not often, but they did. I mean, of course,
I mean I'm from a big family. I'm one of
seven kids, and so being alone is kind of like
a luxury. But another luxury too though, having your people,

(29:26):
but my people who I'm close with, having my people
around luntury. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
So would you just with those moments, would you just
kind of wait for those moments to pass? Did you
have sort of coping mechanisms for that or.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well speak, I had distraction methods to kind of get pasted,
And so I didn't watch a whole lot of movies
while I was in space. I watched more like series
television series like Star Trek and Picard and things like that.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Were you watching it like this is bullshit?

Speaker 2 (30:00):
In some cases, there were things that would happen, or
you know, read, listen to a book, a long book.
So those were some of the things that I would
do every now and then listen to music, or go
take photos, look out the window and take post and
you know, remind myself that you know, this may be
a once in a lifetime. And I mean, I get

(30:21):
back and.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
You're one of I don't know the numbers, but it
must be I need thousands of thousand.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, we're getting close to about Wow. Yeah, you're one
of hundreds of people. I think it's understand hundred seven
hundred people been to space.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
It's been to space. That's extraordinary. That's amazing that I'm
talking to you. I'm very grateful. What's about the other
side of it? There have been a number of films,
and I love these films. I'm always interested in the stories.
And you tell me, how long have.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
You been back? Since October twenty fifth.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
So there's often stories of people coming back from space
and struggling with the normal people, normal life because you've
had such a profound experience that no one else has
had and can relate to, and has any part of
it been difficult in that way sort of psychologically and
being back with people who have them into fucking space.

(31:14):
Has any of that been tricky?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
No? See for me, you know, I felt like when
we returned, we had to do a lot of we
had to give a lot of samples. I call it samples,
but there's a lot of blood collection and other collection.
We had to do a lot of debriefs, We had
to go see a bunch of different people, and so
we were really busy when we got back. And it's

(31:38):
not that I didn't think about it before I landed.
One of the questions that so on Orbit, we do
talk to psych docs and medical docks, and the psych
docs it probably once a month in the medical docks
every week or so, and you know, one of the
things that was put to me was like, how am
I going to feel? And you know, this very question
that you're asking now came up and for me, you know,
over my career, I've had some moments like when I

(32:02):
got out of graduate school, I kind of felt this emptiness,
you know what next, but it's going to be the
next big thing for my life. And in that moment
way back when I finished graduate school, it was kind
of very depressing and you know, trying to figure out
what next for my life, And you know, I was
working in Michigan and trying to figure out the next
phase of my life now that I've kind of accomplished

(32:24):
this thing that I had been hoping for, and so
I think for the rest of my life, what I
realized was that, you know, everything that I learned on
that journey of earning a degree was more important than
the end goal because that grew so much. I mean,
I was a child when I started, you know, as
far as I'm experience in life and things like that,

(32:44):
and so by the time I finished graduate school, I
had grown so much, and that final point was to me,
I realized the final point was eclipsed by everything that
I learned along the way. And so for me in life,
what I kind of focus on are those moments like
it's been a fifteen year career. I mean, I've done
so many really cool things along this journey, and enjoying

(33:07):
that final moment of being in space, I kind of
immersed myself in that and stayed in the moment. And
so when I landed, it was such a sense of
joy that I was now at a point in my
life where I had achieved what I set out but
I have grown and I've done so much in this
career that I'm grateful for all of that. I mean,

(33:30):
I've had some really really highs in this along this journey,
and some real lows and incredible lows, but they all
kind of culminated into that point and in that moment
that I'm just really grateful at this point and I
can enjoy life now and enjoy the little things, not
waiting for these big things that happen, but enjoy being

(33:53):
with my family, with Brian, in these little moments of
being around friends and family. So I think for me,
I decided a long time ago that I'm not going
to get depressed at the end of these big things,
but be grateful for everything that I made it through.
Holy Cow, it was a lot of sun so over
fifteen years and crazy very pleasant question.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
But for normal people, I think a long distance relationship
is hard, and it's often helped when you get back
together just to reacclimatize to your normal life together. How
has it been with your man once you got home
after this time.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
The nice thing is that throughout the two hundred and
thirty three days, I probably talked to Brian two hundred
and thirty of those days and so you know, it
was just kind of it was seamless because of that,
and staying in touch and really having good conversations while
in space and not letting things kind of list away

(34:50):
and like, oh, I don't have time to talk to
you right now. Yeah, But being more intentional about it
made it work, I think. And he was very intense
to know about making sure that you know, he was
available even though we were on different time schedules, but
making time like, Okay, we're going to set aside this
time to make sure we talk. It's hard, but being

(35:11):
intentional about it makes it easier and easier and easier.
So I think intentionality instead of letting relationships just kind
of happen or purposeful and intentional about it really helped.
But I think you get it. It is you have
to be really intentional, and if you're not, things would
just kind of float away. You just kind of.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I think it's such a it's interesting that you're in space.
Like I said, if you're both like I've got things
going on, you're always in space. That's always got a win.
I can only talk to you for this hour because
that's when I will be above Earth, so you better
pick up.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
We will have cons so you have to pick up
at this stime. Yeah, that's really like I can't argue
with that. I guess.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I guess we've got to do it your way because
you're in space.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Well, yeah, I kind of have a truck in my
back market. But he has to go along with that,
and that's that's easy. So finding someone who is willing
to go along with that and and be and just
be normal about it, is this net enough?

Speaker 1 (36:27):
I forget forgive me you married or you're no, we're
not married. Yeah, so he gets to say, my girl,
my girlfriend's in space again. Sorry, she can't be she's
in fucking space anyway. What's your girlfriend minds in space?

(36:52):
Your girlfriends on the ground with gravity, she minds in space.
One thing I did ask you on the zoom and
I hope you don't mind repeating it, But I've thought
about it a lot since I did ask you. I
hope you don't mind me asking you again. You're a scientist.
You've worked incredibly hard to get to the position that
you're in. You were in space, looking at Earth, looking

(37:13):
at the universe. It is all physical and practical to you.
And I asked you if it made you feel anything
spiritual or you know, beyond the kind of physical gravity
or not see gravity of it, and would you please
tell me your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Now, Oh yeah, I think it would be hard to
come back and not have like kind of a spiritual awakening,
almost because when you look out in space, especially if
it's daytime, first of all, you're looking at this beautiful
blue Earth with these marvelly kind of patterns on it,
but the background is completely black. You can't see any

(37:52):
other stars during the daytime, and it is so it's
just the blackest black you've ever seen. It's so deep,
and you just feel lonely. Is like you know, they
say lonely planet, it's not really lonely planet. It's like,
are we the only thing in this universe? And how
close is the next human or alien or whatever life

(38:13):
form there is? Well, it's just us here, just us
in your arm, and you know, is there a God?
You start thinking a lot about God and his role
in the universe and things like that, But also you
think about everybody I know is on that planet, every
human being. I can't even see them, but everything I
love is there, and we're so separate, you know, and

(38:34):
even when we get back, we're so separate from other
human beings. You know, we're so callous towards other human beings.
You know, we've gotten to the point where we love
our pets more than we love another human being. And
I get that though, I get loving your pet, but
a human being, even if you don't know them, you
got to value their life. And we we're so separate

(38:55):
in so many ways, and that makes me want to
be closer to other human beings. Be kind to people,
love them, not just toiss them away, and you know,
treat them carelessly. That's the thing that I realized, that
we treat each other so carelessly. And we're all we
got and we've got one planet. The closest is we

(39:16):
have a moon, and that's not a planet, but can
we even live there? We're going to try. The next
place we may get to is Mars in my lifetime.
That is, I don't know if we'll make it to
Mars in my lifetime. We might, we're working on it.
We're moving towards that. But we're still one group of
people on this whole planet. It's not like another species

(39:37):
or anything. We're all humans here. We've got animal life forms,
we've got plants and trees, and you know, but being
kind of one another and taking care of each other
has become much more important to me. Even when I
drive on the road, I'm different, which is I'm much
kinder because I don't want to hurt someone. And you know,

(39:58):
take a second, in a millisecond, a blink of an eye,
you change someone's life or your own. And so to me,
it's like being more careful and just more caring and courteous.
And so I've changed a little bit in that way
and learning to love people a lot more than I
think I felt that I did in the past.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
So is there is that God?

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Did you? Did you think that? Oh? Definitely? When I
look out at night time, I didn't even mention nighttime.
At nighttime, you see the density of stars. You see
the atmosphere and how precious it is. But you see
the density of stars and how far away they are,
you know, And so I definitely believe that there's a God.
When you got on the night sky, some of the

(40:43):
images that we were able to capture, there's so much
going on out there. The auroras, Aurora borealis and australis
absolutely amazing and beautiful. There's something going on out there.
There's got to be an unmoved mover. Who started How
did this begin? You know what I mean? So there's

(41:04):
a lot going on. As I believe that there are,
I think the challenge is how do we get to
each other? Yeah, I definitely believe that there are aliens
in our galaxy? Really, I think in our galaxy has
billions of solar systems. We're one tiny solar system in
the Milky Way Galaxy. There's probably millions of others. But

(41:26):
then we're one galaxy. There's billions of other galaxies out there.
So how do we get to each other? Is the question?
Can you figure that out in the next six months? Please?
I wish so that we can all when things get
rough with the fires in California and everything happening.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, so fascinating. I've forgotten to tell you something to know,
and I feel dreadful about it because we've been talking
for so long and I feel like I should have
told about it. On the other hand, I also feel
like you've been to space, so maybe it's okay, but
you've died, You're dead. It didn't seem a bit unrealistic,

(42:08):
didn't it? Everything you just tell me seemed like a
disis of dream.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, well, I guess about one hundred and twenty years
old when I say, I get the full But I'm traveling.
I'm still able to travel, and you know, I'm going
overseas to work with some you know, at a school
for children or something like, or go visit a hospital.

Speaker 1 (42:32):
And right, and when you say overseas, you mean the
seas of Saturn.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Or it could be I've returned from Saturn and I'm
going to visit some kids, like at a hospital or
something like that overseas. The reason I'm not sure why
I say overseas, but it's because I love to travel,
and I really expect that I'm going to be moving
or still traveling. Okay, And some kid who has a

(42:58):
virus or something me hugged me, hugs me, and then boom, I'm.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Gone killed by a kid instantly.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I got back from Saturn, and you know my immune
system is weakend.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Oh my god, it's so tragic. But you lived to
twenty one hundred and twenty and you were still traveling overseas.
It's big good. Do you worry about death?

Speaker 2 (43:20):
No? The reason I don't worry about death is because
I truly believe that when it's my when I'm done
with everything I'm supposed to do here, then I will go.
I don't know when that will be, but when I'm done,
I'm done. And you know, I mean, if I haven't
died in living underwater or a cave, going to space

(43:41):
and all these things, I'm like, Oh, okay. And it's
not that I'm pushing the envelope in tempty fate or
anything like that. It's just that I really do believe
that when it's my time, yeah, I'm done.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Wait did you just say you've lived underwaters?

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah? Well only for about nine days. What why are
we talking about this now? Please? Well, it's just one
of the analog missions that we do. I've lived in
a cave even and so underwater. We have this kind
of a little habitat off the coast of off the
coast of Florida, about six miles out. It's about fifty

(44:19):
feet underwater. There's an air pocket and we kind of
do a scuba dive. We go into the little chamber
and we lived there for We lived there, my team,
we live there for nine days.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
You take off, you're like it's pressurized.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
And yeah, exactly as.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Oxygen and you're just living. You're just like wet or
there's a humid all the time, right, it's humid all
the time. Yes, so yeah, that's the only thing. And
then that's called the NASA Extreme Environment Mission operations where
you live underwater, or the other one is with the
European Space Agency where you live in a cave. You
do all this mountaineering stuff in the end of it,

(44:58):
you live in a cave for five days.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
We did up in Slovenia. Yeah, so yeah, if we
do all all this stuff, and it's not that I'm
pushing faith or tempting fate that yeah, when you're when
your time comes, however you're going to go, you're going
to go.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
I was living underwater for nine days. Oh.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
It was phenomenal because it's another world. Everything moves, even
little things that look like a rock, it starts moving.
You see sharks. It's extremely colorful. No, we had like
these big portals that we can look out and you know,
it's it's one of those analog missions. Where our commander

(45:40):
was Akihide from the Japanese Space Agency. There's me the scientists.
We had Mark vander Hie, who was a colonel in
the army in Toma Pascua from the European Space Agency.
He's like France's only yestronaut right now, maybe there's another
one now. Actually we also had two lab techs, so
there were six of us that slept in these bunk

(46:02):
beds across from each other, very close quarters, simulating what
we would have in space, even though it was actually
smaller than what we have in space. And we would
do these fake missions that we landed on an asteroid,
so we'd have to put on our scuba gear, leave
the habitat and go pretend we're excavating an asteroid.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So that was a lot of fun, A lot of fun.
Your life is very cool. What do you think happens
when you die?

Speaker 2 (46:30):
I think the kids don't feel bad, because you know,
I died the way that I wanted in working with
these little kids, even though they give me a virus.
I think it's a glorious time and people are celebrating
because you know, I lived so long, I was able
to help people hopefully and give back. After having been

(46:54):
able to do all these things, go to space and
come back and I was able to help people and
now it's time to celebrate big. Do you think there's
enoughter life for you?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
I do.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
I would hope that there is a beautiful afterlife.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Well there is. Congratulations, you're going, Oh you are going
to heaven. Let me tell you, heaven is filled with
your favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
My friends and family? Oh my god, they're all there.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
They're all there, your friends and family, they're all over heaven.
They're so excited to see you. And all they want
to do is talk about your life. You're one hundred
and twenty year life, but they want to talk about
it through film, which is weird. The first thing that
they ask you is, what's the first film you remember seeing?

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Jett Apps. Well, it's kind of fitting that I'm in space.
I remember being a kid and my twin sister and
I we went downtown with our mother and we went
to Landmark Theater and we saw a movie called Jesus
Christ Superstar. So yeah, so that's what we watched. So

(48:07):
we had to be like maybe seven or eight. I mean,
this is wow. Some years after the movie came out
and it was showing at a local theater downtown in Syracuse.
So did you love it? I remember loving it. I
don't remember a whole lot of movie, but I remember
loving it. My mother loved the movie, of course, and
so it was just our little thing to do, Janet

(48:28):
and I being the youngest and always with our mom,
and you know, she wanted to get out and do things.
So you know, that was one of the fun things
that we did together.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Are you and your twin identical?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
No, we're for fraternal. But her name was Janet, so yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Well Janette, Jane and Jeannette. Yeah, it's ridiculous, that's very silly.
There's no justification for that. We're not even Idana. That's

(49:06):
a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it. Do
you did you always feel connected to her? Was there
any you know, sometimes people say have twins, do you
have a invisible code?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Do you have that with her? We definitely do, you know,
probably because we spent we went to the same schools,
we were, went to same undergrad same graduate school, and
we just deviate it once we finished school. Yeah, did
you still feel it when you were all the way
in space? No? I don't. I don't think I did.

(49:35):
But we talked all the time, so you know, I
think I was focused on other things maybe and not
really kind of like what's going on with you?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Jan hits up to what is the film that made
you cry the mice? Are you a crier?

Speaker 2 (49:53):
I try not to cry. And you know, when I
read this question, I was thinking about it, and I'm like,
I cried a lot of movies. But I realized that
the reason that I cry is that like Scrooge, I
mean every Scrooge that I've read, any story of redemption,
and I mean sad life and you kind of feel

(50:13):
like you really want this to happen, and and so
stories of redemption and happiness, those are the ones that
I cry at the most. Shawshank Redemption that was another one. Yeah,
you can't help but cry, and that one. I So
those are the kind of movies that really make me
tear up. And when some triumph happens, justice or something

(50:36):
like that, you finally get to that point you get it.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
So, yeah, which witch Scrooge are you referring to?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Albert? No, So the first one that I watched was
the one with Patrick Stewart, but the one man it
is the most gut wrenching, the one with Guy Peers
It was like a TV one one, and it goes
through his childhood and why he became the way he

(51:06):
ended up being. It was even more counfrenching because it
kind of tells the story of, you know, why was
Scrooge like that? What made him become this? And so
those are the kind of stories that really tear me apart. Yeah,
I get that.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
What is the film that scared you device? Do you
like being scared? Do you get scared? Rosemary's Baby? I
don't know if you've ever seen that.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
I don't like scary movies at all, but Rosemary Baby
was one of those movies that you know, like that
could happen. As a kid, I'm like, oh my god,
that could actually happen. Extors is scary. That was so scary.
In fact, last week we drove by that Georgetown home

(51:54):
in that area very feak. I think I was more
afraid of Rosemary's Baby than exist because I can't see
Exorcist really happening. I'm sure it could, but baby, it's
just it was scary.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
So you don't think the devil can possess someone, but
you do think that they can give birth, they can
imprecate someone.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Well, the head spinning around and the battle floating that
could happen. But Rosemary Baby was like, oh my god,
what if that kid was born? Yeah? What could I do?
That was? It's true?

Speaker 1 (52:30):
What is the film that you like but it is
not critically acclaimed, but you love it? You don't care
what people think.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Okay, don't judge me when I tell you this is
Have you ever seen The Fifth Element? Love the Fifth Element?

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Well, it's one of the most accurate science fiction films
ever made. I'm sure you'd agree.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
It's hilarious. It's so funny. So I've watched it many,
many times. But I'm one of my guilty pleasures. I
think I love that film. See a lot of people
do not like that film, but I love this true.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
I think the Blue Lady Opera Singer Octopus blue Head.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yes, it's very movie.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I love It's a great film. Oh here's the question
I wanted to ask you, as someone who's done all this,
is there any film you've seen science fiction film or
you know, space movie that is close to the one.
What's the one that's impressed you the most where you're like, yeah,
that's pretty spot If any.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Well, it's interesting because you know, Andy Weir wrote The
Martian and that was probably the most accurate. But that's
because he did all of his research, right, And yeah,
he did a lot of great research on the spacesuit,
potentially growing things in space, mission control and so you know,

(54:00):
he received the Hugo Award for that story. But it
was because he got very close to the accurate, to
their actual way things in space. And it's difficult to
do that. I mean, there's a lot of stories that
don't come close, but The Martian was pretty close. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
Oh yeah, there's a film called Iss came out last year.
Do you see it?

Speaker 2 (54:27):
I did see it. Is this the one where only
two people survive in the end.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Is the Ariana Duvois film where they get they think
the Earth has been like and then now they've got
to fight each other. Yes, tell me how, because I
enjoyed that film. I have no idea how real, how good,
how stupid? You tell me, having lived there.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
The relationships and so basically it's the same movie that
we saw. You have the Russians fighting the Americans in
a way, yes, and so that's the part that is
not real, and I think that's partly the movie was
not bad the premise of it was what I didn't like, Like,
you would never see the Russians and Americans fighting like that.

(55:12):
I mean, there are closest neighbors in the States, and
so it's funny whenever every weekend we had dinner together
and it was either in the data in the Russian
segment or downtown in the US segment. So we got
along really really well. So would there ever be a
kind of like a fight like that, I can say never.

(55:36):
I would say that would never happen. But it was
the sort of physical nature of that film which looked
pretty good to me. It was a lot of things
that were active, but it was side by I guess
the side by side seating is correct in the SOYUS.
Within the SOYUS it is much more cramped inside the

(55:57):
Soyuz vehicle. There were a lot of things, really good
things that they did on there that I think the
only reason why I did not I was like, no, this,
this would never happen, was because of the relationship.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Right, that's good, that's good, that's nice.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
It is interesting that you know, we still have this
really close relationship with our Russian colleagues, and I think
a lot of people are surprised, but we work so
closely together. Like Alexander Grievinkin was the gentleman, the cosmonaut
that I flew with. One of the best human beings

(56:34):
I've ever met. Is another one some of my favorite Russians,
Serge Anton Skaparev. I did language immersion in Russia, so
you know, getting to know a lot of these guys.
And I did all the training in Star City as well.
We really do work closely together and train closely. You
get to know each other really well and you have

(56:56):
to trust each other. Yeah. Nice.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Do you feel like like you'll be close with these
people back in the real world.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
You'll keep in touch and stuff to people. I still
get for the holidays, Alec to me and he's he
always sends Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, International Woman's Day.
In March, I get a note from Alec. Yeah, we
we keep in touch through what'sapp. So the world has

(57:25):
gotten smaller with things like WHATSP telegram things like that.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
So what is the film that you used to love
but you have watched recently and you've thought, I don't
like this anymore.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Well, so I won't watch those movies. And the reason
I say. I say that is because I remember as
a kid, we loved any movie that had Elvis Presley
in it. Right now, as I've gotten older and rewatched
some of those like, yeah, I just can't movies. Sorry

(57:57):
to Elvis fans, but they were yeah, I can't. Yeah,
watch any.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
What is the film that means the most to you?
Not necessarily the film is good, but the experience you
had seeing the film will always make it.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Maybe. Oh well, I'm looking this way because you know,
not too long ago. So one of the movies that
I watched a while ago was this movie called Deer
Hunter with Robert de Niro Narrow Street. It's a great movie. Yeah,
up until like twenty twenty two, I hadn't really watched
the movie. I probably watched it maybe ten years. Prior
to that, I had never seen a friend of mineset.

(58:31):
It was a great Vietnam movie. You got to watch it,
and I thought it was a pretty good movie. And
then Brian we we've been friends for twenty some odd
years now, but a few years the reason we ended
up probably getting together was one night he was keeping
me company while I was quarantined for working with Crew five.

(58:53):
It was another mission to the space station. It was
crew five. I was the backup, so I had to
quarantine and Brian, as a friend, agreed to keep me
company while I was quarantined alone. And so he's like, yeah,
I'll watch a movie. I was like, oh, okay. And
you know I knew that Brian. You know, he was

(59:13):
a military analyst. I knew he loved all these military movies.
So I said, hey, why don't we watch Deer Hunter together?
And you know that way is something I'll enjoy. He'll
definitely like he's doing me a favorite, keeping me company. Fine,
So this is about almost three years ago now. So
we watched the movie and then Brian kept talking at

(59:34):
the end of the movie, and he kept talking and
kept talking, and we had this long conversation about two
hours afterwards. Then it dawned on me that oh, I
think this was a date and it was a day. Yes,
so yes, So from that day on we've been see.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
I like, how it's very sweet that a man says
I'll come and keep you company quarantined. You had no idea, Well,
we were in separate places that way. The funniest part,
you were in separate like pods.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
No, he was at home in Maryland and I was
in Florida. No, actually I was in here here in Houston.
I was in Houston. So we started the movie at
the same time. And wow, you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
Too too, A good at long distance.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
It's very sweet. Well we were friends for what twenty
years at that point? Yeah, twenty years?

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
And so when did you get together after that after
the Deer Hunter? How long until you were physically.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Maybe probably about so, probably about two weeks after that
a little bit over we you know, the launch went
off and I could finally leave quarantine and we met
up face to face flintly. So, but it was after
that it was like every day we had to check
that so and we weren't chatting about anymore that first
night four hours of Deer Hunt.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Mo pas to click. So do you does everyone have
to quarantine for two weeks before you go into space
so that you're all jam free?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Swin theory, no one should get in in space because
none of you have brought anything with.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
You, exactly. But when you do introduce the new folks
in like which the Starliner folks, they've also quarantined, so
they shouldn't have anything. But you know, there's a potential.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, what is I keep having I keep forgetting whis
men to talk about films? So what is the film
you mightst relate to?

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Oh gosh, there's so many movies and I'm kind of
a weird person, and that I picked the things that
caused me to grow the most and the film that
I'm most related to, and there's there's there's several of them.
But when my favorite movies is Doune and even though yeah, yeah,

(01:02:05):
I love that as a kid. So yeah, And I
don't know if it was because I was going through
something weird, you know, like going through school was weird
for me because you know, I wanted to be a scientist.
My parents weren't scientists. Things like that. But there's always
just so much in this movie that is I related
to it at a given moment. And you know, for example,

(01:02:27):
like in the movie when I'm dup, Lito says to Paul,
you know, the sleeper must awaken. You know. It's like
for me, I knew I had a lot of work
I needed to do. I need to get on it,
and I knew that there were things that I needed
to do and you know, just must awaken. And I
was so corny, But those are little things that to

(01:02:48):
me like call the action almost and just relating to Paul,
Paul reluctantly had to become this person. And it wasn't
that I was reluctant. It's just that, you know, I
had to go to Loane just get it done.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
How did you when did you do you remember deciding
you wanted to do this? You always knew this?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Well, I think it was more like getting into undergraduate
and going to college. And going to graduate school was
kind of like a big decision for me because you know,
my brothers had gone to college and they joined the
army and done things like that. But Jane and I
we wanted to be scientists and that was very different.

(01:03:27):
But we had a mom who said, oh, sure, why not,
even though she had no clue what we wanted to do.
And so it was just interesting that things like Dune
and stuff like that and getting into the right mindset
to go forward and do these things was was a challenge.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
But do you know what inspired it? Like was did
something happen at school or in TV or anything that
made you go That's what I'm interested in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Well, I will tell you when I was nine years old,
My older brother came home from college, and you know,
Janet and I being the nice little sisters, we wanted
to make our brother happy, and so we showed up
what was our report cards, so you get your grades
back then, it was on a card and you either
get a's, b's, your attendance and all this stuff is
on it. So we showed our brother, and our brother

(01:04:18):
said to Jane to me, he's like, wow, this is great.
You guys are doing well in math and science. You know,
maybe you can become astronauts or aerospace engineers. And I
knew that, you know, there's no way that I could
become They would select me to become an astronaut, but
I knew that I become an aerospace engineer. So at
the age of nine, this little bit was flipped in

(01:04:38):
my brain. Up, I have to go to school for this.
And it didn't change, it didn't waiver. You know, there
were times when you doubt that, but it was just
you know, this is what I have to do. This
is what I'm supposed to be doing kind of thing,
and so it didn't inspire me. My brother kind of
convinced me that that is what you're supposed to be doing. Wow,
that's so cool. And what about Jack? Is she a scientist?

(01:05:02):
She she is, but she did molecular cell biology, so
she did more stuff with genetics. Yeah, and yeah, we
were nerds, and you know, we're kind of like paying
for it as we get older because there's things that
other kids did he did not.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
You are amazing. What Oh, here we go to that.
What's the sexiest film you've ever seen?

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Oh? That's Oh, I've got a couple. There's two that
came to mind almost immediately. There's a movie called Love
Jones and that has me a long love that film.
It was so amusing. Yeah, and then Thomas Crown Affair.
Of course, the new one or the one I love? Yeah,

(01:05:48):
I like both of them a lot. Very sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I think that New one is really sexy. Great film.
Here's Brasman, Yes, yes, please, wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Love Jones was is a you know a lot of
people haven't seen that one, but I'm like the music,
the relationships, the way things played out.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
I mean it was just very sexy, very very sexy.
There's a subcategory, you know, there is sometimes I don't
love asking it, but here we are traveling by those
worrying why Jones a film you found a rousing that
you weren't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Sure you shit, that's a that's a tough one. Yeah,
I mean these be honest, all of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
These romantic movies, I mean like Love Jones and Thomas Crowdlefeer.
They're not like super like you know, close off and
this and that and the other. But that is to
me the sexiest way you get around. And it's it's
like more of the imagination and it's not so much
you got to see all the skin and you got
to see it. No, it's just this whole kind of

(01:07:01):
notion of this deep passion between these people that is
so and it's just boiling over. So it's probably probably
loved Jones or I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Will I will accept it. That's what well. I want
to ask, by way, what is how do you cope
with that side of things? Being in space for two
hundred and thirty days? Just shut down? I just shut down.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
And it's so funny because there is a scientist who
she has done like presentations on sex and space and
so really getting into this and we'll see in the
future how far that goes. But yeah, you're in space,
you're in close quarters with all these people. I think
the worst thing, and this is how I always felt like,

(01:07:52):
you don't you don't sleep with the people you work with.
You got to see them the next day. It doesn't
work out, you don't want them, like spiking your punchers.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Yeah, were there any relationships on this space station.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Where you were No, So, Matt's married, Mike's married, Tracy's married.
I'm pretty much, I guess closely. Yeah, and then the
Russians are like, you know, they're like they're there to work,
they're doing the ground tells them, and everyone's kind of
like on the street.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Well, from what I could see, Yeah, answering that question,
I appreciate you. You just have to shut it down.
I assume that's what you say. Just shut that down,
but just just kill that part of your brain for
two hundred and thirty days and just keep looking at
the wonder of the world.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
I guess I'm I'm going to be I don't know.
I know in the military they claim that the feel
that they would give these guys would kind of shut
a lot of that down. I don't know if that's true,
but yeah, I kind of doubt that it's true, to
be honest, because that's just not right. You've got to

(01:09:05):
tell someone that you're doing this. That's good. We are
dragging you, so you don't so you have no libido?
I take it. Great. Sounds sensible, right, it sounds sensible. Right, Yeah,
there are there's a research a medical doctor. She has
been doing a lot of presentations on sex and space

(01:09:28):
and why for health reasons. I guess. I'm not sure
of all her reasons, but she's out there, yeah, kind
of proselytizing. So she's given many presentations on it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
What so in the same way that you guys have
been looking into immunity in space and three D, she's
sort of going, what about sex and space that might
be good for us? Except exactly that's important to work. Okay,
thank you friends for these questions. What is objectively the
greatest film of all time?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Oh? So okay, this one is when I saw this
question to her and you know, everything for me like
relates back to family and friends and things like that.
So for me, it's The Ten Commandments. I mean the Wow,
Charleston Heston and yeah, Bill Brenner to mill was he

(01:10:22):
was the director, I think, So you got to realize that,
you know, when I was a kid growing up in Syracuse,
like around Easter time, you know, the Tenth Commandments was
shown on television, and it was like my mother was like, oh,
we got to watch this, so it would be like
a big Sunday dinner. My mother's making dinner on a
Sunday afternoon. The movie is like twenty hours long in

(01:10:48):
real time exactly, so she's cooking dinner. We're all sitting
around watching it, and you know, you could smell the
food in the house, and we're just all sitting down
together watching my mother's making dinner. We eat dinner. The
movie is still going on, and it's just an epic movie.
And so many actors and superstars ended up in the movie.

(01:11:10):
Even Vincent Price was in there. It's just kind of
a beautiful movie. To me, it was just epic. But
it reminds me of growing up in Syracuse and my
mom cooking on a Sunday afternoon, and it was such
a big deal to watch this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
Every you start to Semstein, you've got them. You've got
a lot of biblical, biblical films here were you were
you religious religious family?

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Well, yeah, we were. I think as I've grown up,
I've gotten more away from like religion as an institution,
but more Christian and you know, instead of blindly following things,
really understanding what you're doing, and you know, the big
premise of all of it is love at the end
of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
Yeah, what is the film you could or have watched.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
The I love movies, so there's so many things. You
could name a Star Trek movie. I've watched it over
a hundred times. In fact, we recently watched The Wrath
of Khan, which is so I mean, and we're watching
it now and they were like, oh, the acting was
kind of but we love the promise of it. I mean,

(01:12:22):
there's so many movies. Oh my gosh, I've watched so
many of the James Bond movies. Admittedly, I've watched those
repeatedly over and over, and then you know there's I'm
looking at the notes that I wrote down, and uh,
you know two of my favorite actors that I've watched

(01:12:42):
a lot of their movies over over and over again
is Robin Williams and Denzel Washington. Yeah, as Missus douth
Flower or Patch Adams and Denzel Washington in just about anything.
Holy God, I agree, very good.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
He's my favoritis I would watch them in end and
I have, what is the worst film you've ever seen?

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Let's not be too negative. No, I'm not going to
be negative, but this this one was undoubtedly So I
was forced. I wasn't forced. I was asked to watch
if I wanted to watch a movie while I was
doing a training exercise and I was stuck in a
vacuum chamber inside the spacesuit. And so they're like, oh,

(01:13:26):
we've got tons of movie. We've got Shark Nado. You
can watch Shark Nado. Like, I've never seen it. Is
it any good? They were like, oh, yeah, it's good movie.
And I was I can't even believe that I watched
that movie. But I was a captive audience. I was
in a chamber.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
What does that mean? So you're are you flight team No.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Here in Houston, we have a chamber where basically they
lock you. You're in the space suit, the spacesuited vehicle. You
have oxygen pressurized. But then they take you in the
suit and they put you into a chamber, take all
the air out. You're in vacuum, and so you're stuck
there because what they want to do is see how
the soup behaves and how you behave when you're in

(01:14:10):
a vacuum chamber. We're purging all of the nitrogen out
of your body so that you don't get decompression sickness
when you do outdoor on the space walk. And so
I'm just basically sitting there in a suit as a
captive person, and I'm able to look at this little
portal while I'm stuck in this chamber, and they could
show a movie and they can pipe in the sound

(01:14:30):
into the suit and Shark Nado evolve being I cannot
get back, it's so horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
So there's so many physical checkpoints along the way that
if you didn't pass, you can't go to space. Essentially,
you could do all this work and if you can't
handle that, you're out and.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
And that was the I think that was part of
the test. Can you handle being in the back and
watched Sharp DA. If you can do that your hand,
then have you seen the movie? I actually have not
seen Sharkda though, Okay, so I judge it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Whatever you do, do it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
What is the film that made you laugh the most?

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Oh? Did you laugh in space? Oh? Yeah, something about Mary.
I don't know if you've seen that one. I have
seen that. Yeah, it probably made me laugh the most.
I went to see the bussters and yeah, we laughed
so hard. That was years ago, though, that's probably Jeanette Epps.
This has genuinely been a privilege for me and on

(01:15:39):
it and I've enjoyed this so so much. I really
really appreciate you telling me everything. I hope these questions
haven't been boring for you. No, No, been as fascinated
as I have.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
However, when you were one hundred and twenty years out
and you just got back from Saturn, so you were
pretty let's stay clean, germ free, and you being you
were like, ah, I'm home for a bit, but I
still like to travel. I'm going to go overseas. You
went overseas. Want to help some kids. You go visit
a school. I'm going to inspire some kids. And one
of these fucking kids, absolutely riddled with illness comes over. Oh,

(01:16:15):
I'm such a big fan, hunts you, kisses you, and
as they kiss you, they pass the virus to your
very innocent body that has had no germs for so
long as you've been on Saturn. Just swinging around the
fucking rings and stuff. I have a lovely time anyway,
the virus takes over you. It eats your flesh. You
collapse a skeleton on the floor. All the kids scream,

(01:16:36):
oh my God, Jesus that I'm walking around with a coffin.
You know, I'm like, I go, Jesus, what's that? I go,
Oh my God, is that the famous asson? Oh my God,
look at her skeleton? Jesus, And I say, you kissed her?
And the kid goes it was me, And I got you,
little shit, look what you've done. Get out of here,
and I go, come on, everybode help me. You get

(01:16:56):
your bones, But your bones there's less less densitys you've
just been to Sat. Your bones are like very light.
I'm getting the bones and the shutter of oh oh God,
getting bits of your skin. Anyway. End up, I've got
a much smaller coffin than I thought. Coffin is rammed
despite how very thin your bones are. There's only enough
room in this coffin for me to slip one DVD

(01:17:17):
into the side for you to take across to the
other side. And on the other side, it's movie night
every night. What film are you taking to show your
friends and family in heaven? When it is your movie night. Please.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Since it's my family, it has to be the ten commands.
Oh my god, I love it. And we're we're making dinner,
we're hanging out watching the tank Amends like we did
when we were little, and.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
It lasts eternity because it is the Tanker moment. Oh, Jeanette,
this has been such a joy. Normally I say to people,
you know that is there things people should look out
for and watch with you? What have you got coming up?
Is there anything we should be looking out for? What's
going on next for you?

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Well, I'm entering back into the core, and I'm going
to do a lot of presentations to students and things
like that, going out to the New York Halle Science
and talking to students there, and maybe back to my
undergrad in Syracuse Lemoyne College and talking to students. So
pretty much, I'm entering back into the core, starting training

(01:18:25):
again and talking to a lot of students and hoping,
hoping that I can inspire them and show them some
things that they've never seen and maybe they'll get interested
or become interested in science, technology, engineering, mathematics.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
And what's the cool? When you say the core, what's
the what's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
The astronaut core.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
That's so cool. That's so cool. Wow, Janet X, what's
an absolute treat. Thank you very very very very much
for doing this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
So happy to me. Thank you for inviting me, oh man,
especially thanks for accepting the invitation to talk to us
in space. Are you kidding? It's the crazest thing.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
That happened of all the amazing things to happen, to
be told by NASA, can you have a chat with
someone in space?

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
You're like, fuck, yes, that was amazing. So thank you
so much, Thank you, pleasure. I appreciate you. I appreciate
you so much. Good day.

Speaker 1 (01:19:22):
So that was episode three hundred and thirty seven. Head
over to the patreontpatreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldsteam
for the extra twenty twenty five minutes of chat, secrets
and video with Jeanette. Go to Apple Podcasts give us
a five star rating. But right about the film that
means they're nice to you and why it's a lovely
thing to read helps her numbers much appreciated, Thank you,
thanks for listening. Thank you so much to Jeanette for

(01:19:43):
coming back to Earth and giving me her time. Thanks
to Scrubius, Pip and the distraction pieces of network. Thanks
to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to iHeartMedia and
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network for hosting it. Thanks
very much to Adam Richardson for the graphics and leads
Alight Them for the photography. Come and join me next
week for another smashing. Yes, that's it for now, but
in the meantime, have a lovely week and please be

(01:20:05):
excellent to each other.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
Sh

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Jeanette Epps (NASA Astronaut / Aerospace Engineer) • #337

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Brett Goldstein

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Jeanette Epps (NASA Astronaut / Aerospace Engineer) • #337