July 26, 2023 • 46 mins
*This episode was recorded prior to the start of the SAG-AFTRA strike.*
LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With!
Join your host Brett Goldstein for a special REWIND edition, as he talks life, death, love and the universe with the excellent writer and actor MOON ZAPPA!
A glorious episode in the FTBBW archives, with insightful and revelatory contributions from Moon making for a proper goody. Below is the original writeup - we'll have more awesome rewinds for you this Summer!
You’ll surely recognize the surname, but that is not why we’re here today… Moon has been making power moves out there in the US for a while now, with a huge amount of work to her name, and this week it’s her time to talk about all things movies, from her childhood days up to the present. It’s a superb selection of cinematic treats of course, but on top of that there are dips into such topics as the ‘forever library’, being ultra intuitive as a kid, having a very specific nervous system and how it came about, her parents (specifically her father Frank), and the utter madness inspired by book tours. So much to dig into, and a fantastic ride as the first episode of 2021!
Video and extra audio available on Brett's Patreon!
SUPERBOB (Brett's 2015 feature film)
CORNERBOYS with BRETT & SCROOBIUS PIP
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look out.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
It's only Films to be Buried with Rewind Classic. Hello there,
this is Brett Goldstein. We're taking a short break between seasons,
(00:22):
so in the meantime enjoy this absolutely banging Rewind Classic
until we return on August ninth with a brand new
season of unbelievable new guests and episodes. In the meantime,
I've curated some of my all time favorite episodes. So
sit back or run, or walk or drive or sleep
or bang or whatever you do to these no judgments,
(00:44):
and I very much hope you enjoy this episode of
Films to be Buried with Rewind Classic.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It
is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by
a writer, a actor, a podcaster, a thinker, a philosopher,
a censor, tvo, a hero, a legend, a spirit guide,
and a spirit follower. Please welcome to the show. The
(01:24):
Brilliant Moon Upper.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Hello, thank you for having me. That was a lovely intro.
I'm going to start crying already.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Hi Moan, how are you?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I'm already weepy.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So Moon and I we've only met once before, and
we met doing the WGA podcast where I was the guest,
she was the host, and I'd describe it as like
the best therapy session I've ever had, and it was free,
and I thought, oh, I'd like to turn the tables
aggressively turn the tables, and I'd like to get Moon
(01:56):
on my podcast, and I'd like to hear about your life.
So that's why we're here.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
That's great. Yeah, like I said, I was. When you
asked me, I thought, Oh, that sounds like fun. And
then the more I thought about it, I thought this
is really difficult, and I realized I don't even watch movies.
I think the same way other people watch them. I've
never watched them just to be like, oh I feel
like relaxing, I'm gonna watch something, or oh, it's never
been entertainment. How do you watch fil I think it's
always been me trying to understand my family of origin
(02:26):
and saying, does anybody have any information? So, even as
a kid, before I knew I could go to therapy,
there was such a thing as therapy. I was just
trying to make sense of the external world and the
world I was subjected to, and then my interior life
and my reactions to it. I think I was just
looking for does anybody have answers for me? So as
I looked at these films and I was thinking, these movies,
(02:47):
I don't even know if I like them, because they're
just the movies that absolutely built the structure of me
and saved my life.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
You are the perfect guest to this. That is how
you should be watching fields. Anybody's watching films to escape
get out. That's that's great. Well, then this should be
very interesting. And also do you feel the same way
about all all things? Do you feel the same about
music and books and or particularly films?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Definitely? Absolutely right, definitely, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think so. I find it interesting. I've done this
podcast for a while and there's a question on it
what film you must relate to? And I'm surprised by
a lot of people saying, oh, I don't really know
the answer to that. I've never really thought about it,
and I always think, what is it? What do you mean?
Don't you mean all the films?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, and that's the other thing too, which which character
in the film or the director or the writer, like
there's so many ways to be like which thing am I?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And then I'm always passive by why did I pick that?
Why am I?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Why am I rooting for that character not the other one?
It's so fascinating. Yeah, and then if you don't feel represented,
I think that's one of the reasons why I became
a writer. Like well, I don't see myself in all
the ways I want to see myself. I see a
piece of myself there, but I'm still not here yet.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And have you written films?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, I've not told any, but I've written a few.
And Yeah, it's been an interesting journey. I'm looking forward
to when they actually all meet daylight.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Let's say that's a very nice Well, I'm not sure
you want your films to meet daylight that I want
my films to meet a darkened room. I don't know.
Maybe that's just a different way of looking at it.
Oh Moon, I've forgotten to tell you something.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, oh shit, Oh no, you can tell me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
You don't mind if I just tell you. I should
have maybe said this before we were recording. Look, I'm
not I've said i'd say i'd cut it if you're
uncomfortable with this, but I feel like that might jeopardize
the episode. I'll just tell you. I'll tell you you've died.
You're dead.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Wait what what?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, is this a joke? No? No, this
is real. Hi Jake, you literally froze when I said
that as well, your screen friend.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
No, I was trying to feel what that would feel like,
if I feel relieved or not.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I think I feel relieved.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Do you a bit?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
M hm?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, that's nice and we better check in with you
at the end of the episode. You feel a bit? Really?
Do you know how you died? How did you die?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Well, here's the thing. I'm a powerful manifestor.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I really do believe in the written and spoken word,
you kind of conjure your life. So my request is
to die peacefully in my sleep in real life. But
for the purpose of a storytelling adventure, I have a
couple of different scenarios.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The one I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Go with, though, I think, is a standoff. I'm a
I'm a cult leader, but I'm misunderstood. Yeah, yeah, misunderstood. Actually,
I'm actually one of the decent ones, and there's a
hostile standoff and I'm martyred.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
It's really more like a hotel.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Hell, are you shot to death by FBI?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yes I am, Yes, FBI.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Shoot, You're in a hotel room with your with your followers.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
No, no, it's it's my my, my cult experience. It's
a Tuscany and a state in Tuscany, and it's more
like a hotel for friends, like a spar kind of
a feeling a great, Oh, it's fantastic. And then yeah,
they storm in and they've got it all wrong. And
then I'm mark, what's.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
The what's the ethos of your cult? Of this particular one,
the one that you're you're martyred for.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
The ethos would be make yourself as happy as possible,
for as long as possible, doing good for the world
and for yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right. What a tragic way to go, just when you
were spreading that a quite good message. Yeah, well, let's
hope that that message lives on through your your follower
is also shot to death by the FBI.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
I hope not so awkward?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, how long had they seeded the hotel? How long
were you? How long was this stand up?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm going to say it was pretty quick. They it
was just such a misunderstanding. They got the call a
bit late.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right, right, Okay, the reception called you and said hey,
and you said, I know, I don't need my room cleaned.
And I said no, no, just to let you know, FBI.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
No, I was completely caught off guard. Oh okay, I
was completely caught off guard.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
They stormed in, then they did what they did, and
then they got the message it's called off it's she's fine,
she checks out.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And then they're like, oh, do we go with the
cover up?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Or and then they had to kill all your followers
because good no, I know say that this is just
the facts of the facts, and it's listen. It's a
tragic story, but a great Netflix documentary. Do you worry
about death?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Oh? Of course I do every minute.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
It's the thing that drives every single thing I do,
from making a cup of tea?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Is this the last? Is this the last and best
cup of tea I can have? Is this the best way?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Always tried to be like, is this the best possible
way I could do this thing?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
In case this is the last time I do this thing.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's pretty great. It's exhausting or is that yeah, that's tiring.
Nice way to approach your cup of tea. You die.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
It makes me a snob a tea snot. It makes
me a snob across the board.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Actually, because you're like, this isn't good enough because everything
is your last. This isn't good enough for my last
t This isn't good enough for my last Mayo.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
That's a terrible mantra. But I guess that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow, how long have you been that way?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Since birth? Since birth? Pretty much?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
No time where you weren't worried about imminent death.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I don't think so. I mean I don't think so.
I started union therapy recently.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And when you go back to the pre verbal like
what was I feeling and thinking and trying to articulate,
I don't think I ever had a feeling of like
a calm nervous system ever. So I think I always
had some sense of like, WHOA, what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You phonn that way in a panic.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I do think that that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I think part of it is, honestly, because when I
was in utero, my mom's dad died, and I think
I was flooded with the grief hormone. And then my
father was touring. So here's this twenty two year old
girl suddenly having to take care of a baby, and
she's a baby herself in a basement apartment on Jane
(09:20):
Street in New York City, and I think that that
wasn't a great opening scene.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Wow yeah fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I mean so I have a totally different nervous system
than my siblings because it's a different thing was happening.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They weren't born through abject grief. They were in Yeah,
so they're all pretty chill.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Well I wouldn't so chill, but uh, they're not as
sad as I am.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Let's say that. Literally, I can be touched by absolutely everything.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
What do you think happens when you die?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, I do believe that there's I believe in the
cast records. I don't know why I believe in this,
but I do believe that it's like there's a forever
library that you can tap into at anytime that's already
your death self, that can access this thing and know
all things at all times.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And so I like to imagine that when.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You go, you just shed the thing that's holding you
back from knowing it all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
The forever library. I've never heard that before. Have you
made that up with?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
That's personally, that's what I call it, the forever library.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I love that. So that's all your past lives or
that's all of universe, all everything of all time ever
exists when you die.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think we can
all access it. To me, it's the thing that makes us.
Like when you think about somebody and then they call you,
or you have a little foreshadowing of something, it's because
you've tapped in. But sometimes people can you know, block
the channel, either on the receiving side or on the
sending side. And because it's private, it's private information, you
(10:51):
got to ask permission to go in there.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh, you're blowing my mind already. So is that where
like create you know, when we did the podcast before
I talked about the magic, Like when you're writing and
you get sort of lost and you just are writing.
Is that Is that because you're tapped into the forever Library?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I think?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So yeah, But what's this thing? So you sometimes have
to shut down your portal to the forever library in
case people can get in that you don't want.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Well, say, let's let's go. Here's a great example. An
ex boyfriend. Maybe instead of cruising their Facebook page, you
might be like, oh, I wonder what he's up to
in that feeling state inside yourself, but you might be like,
it's not my business. That's we've made a contract to
not know one another anymore. So I don't need to
access the file, and he might be blocking it, and
(11:39):
I might want him to block it, or I might
want to block it and have him not be able
to know anything about me.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It's you know, sometimes it's.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
The reason why people move to other cities so they
can't be found. It's the same thing, except it's in
the Forever Library, you know. It's a good example of
it is in willy Wonka, when all the little particles
are flying over like TV's head.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Past the Forever Library. I mean, that's just a visual one.
I love this, right, I mean already I'm stand into silence. Well,
I've got I've got news for you, means Zeppa, there
is a heaven in this Forever Library. There's a heaven
section where you can just hang out. The only sort
of difference with this place for you is that you
(12:16):
don't feel abject panic at all times of the day.
You feel quite ah. I love it. It's nice, right,
you actually feel that piece here and everything you like
is there, like pillows, pillows in the background. There's lots
of pillows there. It mainly mainly pillow based and but
(12:41):
in this pillow based heaven, they're obsessed with films like
you and me, and they want to know about your
life through film. And the first thing they ask you
is what is the first film that you remember seeing?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
The first film is I think Herbie the love Bug?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Nice? Not really the original, the first one. I'd love
to have a film?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was my first movie going experience
at the cinema.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, at the cinema.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Who were you with?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I think my mother must have taken me and Dweasel
to see it. And what I remember was like laughing
in another space, Like my laughter startled me that I
was like, oh, that it was in another setting spatially,
it went a little farther, traveled different than it did
at home, say, and it was with other people, a
(13:30):
shared laugh experience. So I was maybe that's how opera
singers feel when they encounter a space where a voice
rises to a rafter or something else.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A sound came out, A big sound came out of me.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Whow where was this? Do you? Whereabouts was this happening?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I'm assuming it must have been in Hollywood somewhere.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And how old we you may ask?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Probably five? I don't know what year that thing came out,
but it was little, so you were with a sibling. Yeah,
probably were you the youngest, I'm the oldest.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
You quite extraordinary to have the awareness of, oh, this
sound is in a different space. I'm moving in a
different time space at five, I mean you were, you
were tapped in early.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I've been lonely a while, Brett. It's it's I don't
relate to adjust anyone. It's it's I have to wait
to be interviewed on a podcast with somebody going oh, yeah,
I know that feeling.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Fascinating. What also the love Bug is? I'm sad you
don't think it's good.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I mean no, I remember thinking it was extremely silly.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's a lovely card that's like a dog. Even then
he thought this is stupid, this is childish. Believe me,
when we get to the stuff I think it's funny,
you'll be like, oh, grow up, Herbie. All right, what's
the film that scared you the most? Imagine this is
(14:53):
a long list, is it, Tommy? Oh, that is a
fucking scary film.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That's a terrifying mo That one really scared me. And
what's the one with please sir? They have some more.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
What's that one Oliver Oliver?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
That terrifying to me?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Is it Oliver Reid? Is he? Is? He the villain?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
He's still the scariest person, the scariest actor like that.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
That role is still it haunts me. Whatever he tapped into.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So I tell you you know you've seen ted Lasso, right, Yes,
you've seen some of the part of ted Lasso based
on Oliver reading Oliver.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Wow, what are you joking right now?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, I'm not. I'm playing Bill Sykes. If Bill Sykes
didn't beat Nancy right now, No I'm not. I'm serious.
If Bill Sykes didn't beat Nancy to death and had
a heart, that's roy Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Wow, that is so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I did watch the film again recently. It's fucking dark
and it's dark. It's really dark. It ends with he
gets hung, he beats Nancy to death. Then he sort
of hung in the street while people there's a mob
underneath him, and then Oliver's sort of there's kind of
a happy ending for Oliver, but not like he's left
a lot of destruction behind him. It's a very dark
(16:09):
upbringing for the poor boy. For it's just he's not
going to change Yeah, those two.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Those two movies are bleak and very disturbing to me.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
How old were you when you saw Tommy?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Oh, maybe eight or nine, I don't know what year
was that. Yeah, that was upsetting to me. You know
another movie that has that same vibratory frequency to me
is eyes wide shut disturbing.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It just like taps into something. So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It's like I hear it like a like a musical
note where're like sour, weird, lo I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's like a yeah, Tommy, Tommy's got a vibe about
it of like sort of dark chaos or something something
like where you go like this is unhinged in a
way that makes me feel unsafe, Like, yeah, this isn't
necessarily fun. There's something very wrong here. Yeah, yeah, I
(17:00):
get that. Yeah. Do you like being scared or is
that something you try to avoid giving you?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I mean, I'm always scared, so I don't love it.
But I did hear you talking about how you do
love it in one of the episodes, and I and
I was trying to protect like, well, I'm gonna I'm
gonna pretend I'm Brett enjoying this that you seem to Okay,
what would it be like if I did like it?
And uh so I actually have been experimenting with pretending
I like Yeah. It is an interesting thing that if
(17:29):
you in the same way that if you're lying in chivasana,
that's the idea of corpse poses.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You're confronting your death. And so the idea of like.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Actively saying I'm going to examine some fear and move
it outside of myself in a group setting where I
know it's safe, there is something cathartic about that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Theoretically, Wait a second, Chavasina means corpse pise. Yeah, you
fucking that is your three for three, blowing my mind?
What which pose is that? Can you do it? For
the for the patriots are on the vision.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Lying flat on your on your you can have it
at your sides.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's just it's the final pose.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
The final resting pose is shavasan, and to me, it's
the most confronting yoga pose because it's you're you're just
you know, it's you're you're you're saying I'm I'm going
to entirely let go. But it's a it's a nice
practice to see what what could I finally give up?
Let go of, especially if you're you know, letting go
of things that are painful, like if you're a feeling
your own apologies like I feel, for example.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
How you feel I can understand that. Are you any
closer to letting that go work?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
No? I think I think I'm getting closer. I think
it definitely is a life's work. But I think unless
you can do it fast, if I'm always looking for
the most efficient way to Yeah, I mean, I think
it would be nice if a loving person maybe said
the words that no one else is going to say.
And it's it's nice when you can say it yourself,
but it's even nicer when someone else can say to
you with a hand on your and maybe petting your
(19:01):
hair a little bit, maybe you're in their app You know,
that would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So have you read Evensler's The Apology?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I haven't. I'm looking forward to that. Have you read it?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yes? I think it's life changing as an idea, as
a concept. I will quickly tell the listener Evensler had
a terrible, terrible, dark relationship with her father, spent her
life waiting for an apology, waiting for him to acknowledge
what he did, etc. Sort of blamed all of her
her problems in life on him, on the things that
(19:33):
he damaged to the chob which were truly terrible. And then
he died, and he died having never said the things
she needed to him to say, and so she wrote
this short book which is called The Apology, which is
her imagining him saying the exact words she wanted him
to say, and by doing it, it was a sort
of act of an act of letting go, an act
of these are the things I needed to hear. He
(19:54):
maybe was never capable of it, but it's on me
to accept that. And it's also a very good apology.
It's a real good sort of this is how you apologize. Yeah, yeah,
it's so fascinating and I do, and I've thought about
that a lot. I know, I've definitely experienced a lot
of this where you're so upset with someone and you
(20:15):
want that person to make it right and all of this,
and at some point you have to sort of go,
they don't think like I do. They're never this is
never going to these magical words. I'm they're not coming
because they they're not me, and possibly they're not even
remotely thinking about this, and I'm the one using all
this energy and suffering waiting for this magical anyway here
(20:37):
we are.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, the word capacity, I just kind of want to
punch it in the taint.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But this is exactly why I thought this podcast would be. Like,
I love it. I'm loving it. I hope you're comfortable.
I mean, you're never comfortable. But right, what's the film
that made you cry? The mice?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Jim Sheridan's in America is one of them. That one
kills me. I'm tearing up just thinking about it. That
one just kills me.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, is there a particular reason that one that was.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think in two thousand and two, So my father
died in ninety three, and I think I just didn't
see it coming.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Tearing up just think about it.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
When you know the final the final scene on the
on the you know they're on the fire escape and
they and they're looking at the sky.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Ooh hmmm.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
It just it just I don't even want to give
it away for the for the listeners if they haven't
if they haven't seen the film, but they say a
certain simple phrase that we say all the time when
we're departing, and it just it just undid me just
undid me because it's it was my father's name, and
it just I felt like I got, you know, extra
amplification to send someone away that I really cared about
(21:59):
that film and gravity killed me.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Gravity killed me, killed me like.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Like I had to stay in the theater afterwards howling,
like embarrassingly howling.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, that one, just another one. It totally captured how
I've always felt like. I always felt like the things
come away from the ship and I'm free falling in
space endlessly.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's meaning. The problem with doing these over zoom it's
very difficult to give you a hug if you're I'm sorry, thanks, Thanks, Brett. Well,
that's a great answer, and I very much relate to
the gravity thing that's her spinning in space forever gave
(22:47):
me a full anxiety, like full like that's the worst
thing that could happen. Yeah, what's the film that most
people people don't like? It's critically not acclaimed, but you
love it with all your heart. You don't give it
a shit what anyone says.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
This is a sleeper film that I think needs a
second look. Downsizing, Yes, Alexander Payne, Yeah, I think this
is a real I think this is a sleeper masterpiece actually,
and I know that I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Even think he likes it, but I think it's really
I think it's I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I don't know, there's something about it that really just
struck me in so many ways.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So why doesn't he like it?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I wonder if I wonder if he really believed what
the critics said about it and just was like, yeah,
I guess it isn't good because I don't know. I'd
love to talk to him about it, because I just
I find it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I just think it's great. I think it should be
studied really truly.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah. I think it's purely that it was so different
from his other type of films that people were just
scared of it or something. I don't know, it was
so different.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, And the structure's weird and the story's weird, and
there's a character in it that you're just like, why
is she in this thing?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And then you're like, she's the greatest actress A lot.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Like it's I don't know, there's so many pieces of
it that are so weird.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, great shout, very underrated. What the what's the film
that you used to love you loved it hard, and
then you've watched it recently and you've gone, oh no,
I don't feel like that anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Weathering heights that piece of shit.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I mean, how disfunctional somebody say something in real time
and be in this press Like, how that was to
me the most romantic?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
What this is toxic? I'm spinning. I'm so angry.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
You're right, that is a very desfunctional relationship and we
shouldn't keep celebrating it to sit down and have an
actual talk about their feelings.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And at some point in the movie, when somebody is
under the weather, they put her in the sun and
make her drink cream.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
I'm like, that is the worst advice under a blanket anyway?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, when is drinking cream ever good? What? What century
was that the cure?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I know what.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
I'm glad you've brought this up. I think that Bronte
has got a lot to answer for this time we
had we revised our views on them. People love that
as ship. They love a moody gezer. He's a fucking
they do like. That's why I think Fifty Shades of
Gray is so popular because, regardless of what you may
think of it, quality wise, et cetera. It's about a
(25:42):
geezer who's shut down a bit moody, so it's all
all all people are drawn to that dynamic. Oh, he's
so difficult, and maybe I can make it work if
I just let him tie me up and smash me
about a bit in this is the dawn of time
in the in the literatures. Yeah, I'm glad you called
(26:05):
that out.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
What's the antidote to that?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, I guess the problem is stories about like
emotionally well rounded people just meeting up and getting on
aren't perhaps narrative wise, that interesting. That's the problem with
Enlightenment in it boring?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think that's it. What's the film that means the
most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is any good,
but because the experience you had around seeing it, that
will always make it special to you.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I mean, there's a couple of films like I really
have a soft spot in my heart for the film
Little Darlings. That film also is just I don't know,
it's just I feel like.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
What's Little Darlings?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Little Darlings is Christy McNichol and Tatum O'Neill and Matt Dylan,
and it's about two girls that go off to summer
camp and they come from opposite sides of the tracks,
and they this camp unites them and they get into
these kind of a quarrel. They decide to lose their
virginity and both of them lie, but one actually does
lose a virginity and one doesn't, and they both lie
(27:18):
about it. One of the things that really struck me
was that was the first time I thought, oh, wait,
we as the audience, know something that they don't know.
So that was like the first time I think I
had that awareness of like POV and how that can
shift and how you give the gift of the POV
to the to the audience that now we're in on
something that we we're holding all of the information. Yeah,
(27:39):
it makes you have to like you have to decide
if you're you're going to keep their secrets or not.
There's something it was very just there was something psychologically
satisfying about it, but also just a really sweet, tender
film about you know, first intimacies and what that looks like.
And I don't know, just that really touched me.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
That film.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You were probably six when you had that.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
And The other one was is Gangs of New York,
because that one was I had a novel come out
on September eleventh, and I was in New York and
I was two hours into the press and then the
towers came down and all that hard work that I
had done, it was like POMPEII.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I was like, what was all that for? What was
Why did I you know, cause I had that.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I really had that moment of thinking, my life's about
to start. I finally have done the thing, you know.
I followed the Cameron Crow model, like if you finally
tell you your story, all doors open, and all doors
didn't open, they all exploded closed, and then I had
nothing to do with me, and I was I took
something humongous so personally and so when I saw and
(28:44):
it took me a long time even to be creative
again because it was so much work that just was.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like boop, it's gone.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And then when I saw that film, I had a
context for how to understand it and set it aside.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I didn't. There was no other way for me to
process it. Prior to that film.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Holy shit, your nine to eleven was nine to eleven. Yeah,
that's insane.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, it's really intane because but what's really funny is
when the book came out in the UK the first
day of press, I was in this little, you know,
little bookstore in Manchester and two skinheads came to the reading,
and one one right before I started to read from
the book, he says, we're.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Not here for you, We're here for your father.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
And I was like, oh, and I said, I said
thank you so much, thank you so much. And then
he was so disgruntled that I didn't take the bait,
and then he goes, no, we're not here.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
For you, for your father.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I say, thank you so much. That is so kind,
thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
And then somebody else goes, that's not very nice. And
then they just started punching people in the head in
the audience, and I was like, am I on a
camera hidden camera show? I know it was that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
And it was like a third of the people, like
like one of those test study groups, Like a third
of the people ran for help, a third of the
people hid, and a third of the people like got
all scrappy with and I'm just staying there frozen, going
I don't know what to do. I don't know what's
happening anyway. After that, after that event, somebody said, well,
this has never happened before, and if I that has
that sentence has been said so many times on my watch.
(30:19):
And she said, well, at least it won't be this
bad in the States. This will never happen again.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
And she was right, Wow, why what was what?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I don't even understand. I don't know what would What
were these men wanting when they said we're here for
your father like that?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You I don't even think they were Zappa fans. That
was It was so weird, So they I don't I
don't know they were just they were just hooligans.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So I guess me tell you. I look, I'm sure
this is a you don't have to Is it mad
to have grown up.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
With completely completely?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah? And you always knew it was mad?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yes, And I usually I tell people it was like
having across between Jesus and Spock for a father.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Like even if it was if it.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Was Jesus as the time, I would have been like, oh,
do you have to do everything for everybody?
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Can we just have can we?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah? Oh yeah? Can we walk on water in our
swimming pool? Just us?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Just us for a change?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, man. And that's a difficult I was thinking, I am,
I think that must I don't know. Look you could.
I'm sure you've talked about this. It must be very hard,
it must be very hard to constantly to that being
a reference. Well.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The other thing too, is most people, when somebody passes away,
they stay dead, and little by little their voice fades,
or their image fades, or their mannerisms fade. There is
no chance this zombie lives on and on.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Zombie Jesus, Wow, fascinating. That story of your book is
fucking mad mad. I mean, it's difficult not to see
that as a side.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
To stop creating, just be a stay at home something.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I guess if the world literally ended while I was
promoting a book, I'd be like, you didn't. I guess
you didn't lie that one? That guy? Okay, you're amazing. Okay,
So what's the film that you must relate to?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Well, again, it hasn't been made yet, but I would say,
uh yeah, Gravity probably is the closest to the feeling tone.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Alien is another one.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I would say, who in Alien? The Alien? Oh?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
You know another movie that that speaks to me is
I can't think of it.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
It's Amy Adams.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It's another Yeah, you know the Alien one.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Arrival, Arrival, Arrival?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I love that film? Why why that one?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
There's something about the responsibility that the position she's put in,
the decision she has to make. She's you know, like
a grand scale space holder literally and a pioneer. I
mean that that movie is making that makes me choke
up too. Just what she you know those those are?
That movie is so fascinating. I went to read on
(33:19):
about the writer. I was like, forget the movie.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
This writer's amazing. What is he? What else is this
person thinking about?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You read his book, his book of short stories that
that's from. I read that. Have you read it?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I didn't read it, but I went and read that
piece of about that story and how, and then I
learned more about how that what that story actually is about,
and I was just fascinated by it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
He is quite the mind means uppa, what is the
sexiest film ever made?
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Okay, well there's a scene in The Postman Always Rings twice?
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Come on dirty?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
That doesn't come up? Hasn't come up? What doesn't come up?
On this? Yeah? Good shot, good chow.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, that is very that's just that's just ridiculous. She's amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I think she might be that she she exudes sex appeal,
all that jazz.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Good lord her in Kate Fear. I mean, she's amazing.
That's a really good shout and I'm surprised that hasn't
come up. And that is on that list of films
where people were like, oh did they do it for real?
Because it looks like it and they were going out
at the time when they say legit, good show means appa.
(34:29):
There's a sub category to this question, traveling Bone is worrying,
why does what's the film you found arousing that you
weren't sure you should?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Ten? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Why why not?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Because I think I don't know, there's it's it's kind
of misogynistic. Oh yeah, yeah, So I think whenever whenever
I identify with the misogynist and something, I'm like, that's weird,
you know, when I when I'm objectifying somebody, it's that's
a weird feeling to be looking through that that lens.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
That's very interesting, yes, but well, perhaps it shows the
power of all this culture because it is designed to
be arousing and exciting, and I guess even with intellectual
lenses on it, it's hard not to be moved by it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I would say the same thing with Flash Dance,
that scene with the water and the shadow. I don't
think that that's necessarily supposed to be for girls to
be aroused by, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
But I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
That's why am I having a lady feeling about this
as a heterosexual lady.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
That's yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Another weird scene that is creepily erotic is oh god,
it's a rape.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Scene in Brooklyn something Brooklyn. What's her name? Jennifer Jason
Lee is in the back of a car getting gang raped.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh, last exit to Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, last exit to Brooklyn. That scene. I'm just like that.
I got to see a therapist after this. I don't
know what. Why did that? Huh? I shouldn't do the thing.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
No, I mean fair play. That's a perfect answer. You can't.
There's nothing more troubling than that answer. That is a
troubling boner. Some people really struggle with that question. You've
passed with flags. Does it surprise me? What is what
(36:30):
is objectively, objectively the greatest film of all time?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Laurens of Arabia?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, yeah, okay, moving on, what is the film that
you could or have what's the most over and over again?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Heaven can wait? Really?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I love the reason wonder one bet you one?
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yes that when that? I love that film so much.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
It's a lovely film.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, Charles Grodin is so funny. Can It's so funny?
And then just that story is so touching to me?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Is it? Is it? Julie Christie, m mamma Miah Y
so love it. So it's And that's the film that
got remade a million times, and it was originally called
a Guy called Joe? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (37:16):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Then always this sort of that as well.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Basically he dies and then comes back for a bit.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah, And in this in this iteration of it, he's
he comes back in the body of an old man
and somebody he shouldn't get along with.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
They they have a connection.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
And then when he finally wins her over because she
doesn't want to be won over by this person, then
he they find the alternate body he's supposed to be
in because there's a you know, a fuck up in heaven,
and then they all remember him, but then he doesn't
remember them. So there's this piece of like that they
have to start over again, and maybe it'll work out,
(37:54):
maybe it won't. But do you remember that how that
how she they recognize something each other's eyes and then
he doesn't record.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
He can't.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
He's lost the ability, he's afresh being. But she still
has to now be the holder of this idea.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I like that idea a lot. You know what, I
think one of the most romantic films I've ever made
is fifty First Dates, The Adams and the film.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
The idea that you have to start every single day
again with a blank slate and make someone pull in
love with you all over again every day. I think
that's okay.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Isn't that like the Enlightenment you were objecting to just
a few sentences a girl.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
When you put it like fifty first dates, that's not boring,
is it?
Speaker 4 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Wow? I guess Enlightenment's okay. I'm glad we found their
way back to it. That was the devil distracting way,
taking me off the path, the devil with my again.
Enlightenment's boring. Yeah, that sound bory, go over there. We
(39:04):
don't like to be negative. I don't think you do either.
What's the worst film you've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Bridges of Madison County in the DA Vinci Code.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
A heck of a double bill. Why I mean Davindy guide.
I understand why Bridges, the beloved Bridges of Master County.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Because just this whole thing of like, I'm having an
affair and I family found myself and I'm not gonna
go with my true hearts thing because I'm gonna I'm
gonna go back to my family and just continue living alive.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
But it's a secret line.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's like what garbage and then torture the family and
then the kids find the thing and they're like.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Wait, what who was? Who was our mother? Even?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And now we're supposed to be like what are we
How we're supposed to feel about that other than confuse, angry,
the complexity, the selfishness.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Oh no, you gave up your happiness for us, and
we're supposed to be pleased about this, but now we
live with the guilt of you could have been happy,
but we held you back. You put all that on us.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Why did you even have us? And now we have
no way to argue it out with you. Fuck you?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
This person was obsessed with Bridges. You cares this is
your guy? What did he do?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Take bridges and I really think like you do, think
about a bridge guy.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Really.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Anyway, that is a that's a great shot. What's the film?
It means up but you're funny. What's the film that
made you laugh the most?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Okay, so well, there's so many, but one that shouldn't
make me laugh Caveman with Ringo Star and.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Cave Man You don't You're you're not really missing much.
But that was as a kid, that one really made
me laugh.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
What is it? It's Ringo Star as a cave man.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, and what's I want to say? Yeah, no, it
was it was just that was silly. I can't that's
I loved all the airplane movies as a kid. I
loved all the Pink Panther movies. I loved Time Bandits
was a favorite.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh wow, I want to know more about this game
man show. It's Ringo Star. What it's like California Man,
It's like Encino Man, but with Ringo.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Star, It's it's just it's just the most dumb. It's
just dumb that there's you know, I know the song.
I don't want to have to pay money for the
the composer, but anyway, there's just.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
You're not gonna have to. I think we all want
to hear this song because.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You know, there's like a there's a blind cave man.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
He keeps switting his hand in fire. It's hilarious, you
know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Moon Zappa, you've been a wonderful guest. You've been everything
I hoped you'd be. This has been wonderful. Thank you
for sharing everything. However, when you became a cult leader,
which isn't I think much of a stretch, and you've
moved your you and your followers to a hotel in Tuscany,
it's a lovely cult preaching sort of tolerance and love
(42:09):
and being good to other people and good to yourself.
I think the fact that you kept aggressively calling it
a cult raised some alarms when it was arguably a
holiday with some friends, but you kept you kept saying
it's a coat, it's like a cult in it. And
someone at the hotel, I think there's a cult in
our hotel, and they call the FBI, as as hotels do.
(42:31):
The FBI showed up. You were in the middle of
a meditation, you know, you were doing yoga and you
were doing corpse pose, which again I'm not making any judgment,
but I feel like that was misleading. And the FBI
bang on the door. You thought it was has keeping.
Next thing you know, they come in with guards, kill you,
shoot you dead, and then they say, oh shit, I
(42:53):
don't think she was as bad as we thought. And
the followers say, we saw what you did, and they go,
you saw it, did you? And then they shoot all
of the itself. It is a mess. Now. I happen
to be passing. I was just doing a little tour
of sets from Kenneth Brown has much ado about nothing.
So I was in Tuscany and I heard about this colt.
(43:16):
I said, I know about this colt a bit. And
I go to the hotel and I said, there's this
coat and I go, ah, it's been a bit noisy
from that room. I go to the room. It's a
fucking massacre. Everyone's dead. You are splattered. I'm sorry, but
you are splattered against the wall. I have to get
I brought a coffin with me, by the way, I'm
always walking with a coffin, like how we have a
Clint Eastwood. The coffin I had was the size of you.
(43:39):
But there's you're splattered onto fucking the wall. I'm having
to chip bits of the wall off, pick up bits
of the carpet that you're spread into. Anyway, I stuff
you into this coffin, but there's more of you than
was expected because of all the extra bits that you've
stuck to stuffed you in. It's jam pat. There's very
(43:59):
little room for anything. There's enough room for one DVD
for a pillow. No, no pillow, I'm afraid. Oh okay,
one DVD that I can slide into the side of
the coffin for you to take to the other side.
And on the other side, it's movie night every night,
and one night it's your movie night. What film are
you taking to show the people in heaven when it's
(44:20):
your movie night, moons Apper.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Today, just for today, it's going to be Force Maseure
the Avalanche.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Wow wee movie because you want everyone to feel deeply
uncomfortable to heaven.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Remember this feeling you're left behind, Remember having to make
choices and having a bit of conflict and affects everything.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
And this was life, right, this was life, guys. We're free.
Not a bad choice. It's a great shout, moons Appy,
You've been brilliant. Is there anything you would like to
tell people to look out for or listen to or read,
perhaps your novel novels.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
You know what I would tell people to read the
book Breath by James Nestor. That's what I would tell
people to read. That book is a game changer. It's
a it's about how to breathe, actually how to breathe.
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Does it have a section on how to self promode?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I'm a cult leader till the end.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
I want I want you to be uplifted, at empowered
and live your exceed your your expectations for yourself, so
to go beyond beyond.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Well, I'm happy to be part of your cult. Thank
you very much for doing this means Eppa have a
lovely death and good night.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
So.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That was another rewind classic. We'll be back on August
night with ten brand new episodes. Thanks for listening. I
hope you're all well. I hope you're having a lovely summer.
Thank you to screwp This, Pip and the Destruction Pieces Network.
Thanks to Buddy Peace and producing it. Thanks to iHeartMedia
and Will Peraoh's Big Money Players Network for hosting it.
Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and leads to
Laden for the photography. So that is it for now.
In the meantime, have a lovely week and please be
(46:11):
excellent to each other
Look out.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
It's only Films to be Buried with Rewind Classic. Hello there,
this is Brett Goldstein. We're taking a short break between seasons,
(00:22):
so in the meantime enjoy this absolutely banging Rewind Classic
until we return on August ninth with a brand new
season of unbelievable new guests and episodes. In the meantime,
I've curated some of my all time favorite episodes. So
sit back or run, or walk or drive or sleep
or bang or whatever you do to these no judgments,
(00:44):
and I very much hope you enjoy this episode of
Films to be Buried with Rewind Classic.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It
is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by
a writer, a actor, a podcaster, a thinker, a philosopher,
a censor, tvo, a hero, a legend, a spirit guide,
and a spirit follower. Please welcome to the show. The
(01:24):
Brilliant Moon Upper.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Hello, thank you for having me. That was a lovely intro.
I'm going to start crying already.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Hi Moan, how are you?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I'm already weepy.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So Moon and I we've only met once before, and
we met doing the WGA podcast where I was the guest,
she was the host, and I'd describe it as like
the best therapy session I've ever had, and it was free,
and I thought, oh, I'd like to turn the tables
aggressively turn the tables, and I'd like to get Moon
(01:56):
on my podcast, and I'd like to hear about your life.
So that's why we're here.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
That's great. Yeah, like I said, I was. When you
asked me, I thought, Oh, that sounds like fun. And
then the more I thought about it, I thought this
is really difficult, and I realized I don't even watch movies.
I think the same way other people watch them. I've
never watched them just to be like, oh I feel
like relaxing, I'm gonna watch something, or oh, it's never
been entertainment. How do you watch fil I think it's
always been me trying to understand my family of origin
(02:26):
and saying, does anybody have any information? So, even as
a kid, before I knew I could go to therapy,
there was such a thing as therapy. I was just
trying to make sense of the external world and the
world I was subjected to, and then my interior life
and my reactions to it. I think I was just
looking for does anybody have answers for me? So as
I looked at these films and I was thinking, these movies,
(02:47):
I don't even know if I like them, because they're
just the movies that absolutely built the structure of me
and saved my life.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
You are the perfect guest to this. That is how
you should be watching fields. Anybody's watching films to escape
get out. That's that's great. Well, then this should be
very interesting. And also do you feel the same way
about all all things? Do you feel the same about
music and books and or particularly films?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
Definitely? Absolutely right, definitely, yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I think so. I find it interesting. I've done this
podcast for a while and there's a question on it
what film you must relate to? And I'm surprised by
a lot of people saying, oh, I don't really know
the answer to that. I've never really thought about it,
and I always think, what is it? What do you mean?
Don't you mean all the films?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Well, and that's the other thing too, which which character
in the film or the director or the writer, like
there's so many ways to be like which thing am I?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And then I'm always passive by why did I pick that?
Why am I?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Why am I rooting for that character not the other one?
It's so fascinating. Yeah, and then if you don't feel represented,
I think that's one of the reasons why I became
a writer. Like well, I don't see myself in all
the ways I want to see myself. I see a
piece of myself there, but I'm still not here yet.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And have you written films?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yes, I've not told any, but I've written a few.
And Yeah, it's been an interesting journey. I'm looking forward
to when they actually all meet daylight.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Let's say that's a very nice Well, I'm not sure
you want your films to meet daylight that I want
my films to meet a darkened room. I don't know.
Maybe that's just a different way of looking at it.
Oh Moon, I've forgotten to tell you something.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, oh shit, Oh no, you can tell me.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
You don't mind if I just tell you. I should
have maybe said this before we were recording. Look, I'm
not I've said i'd say i'd cut it if you're
uncomfortable with this, but I feel like that might jeopardize
the episode. I'll just tell you. I'll tell you you've died.
You're dead.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
Wait what what?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, is this a joke? No? No, this
is real. Hi Jake, you literally froze when I said
that as well, your screen friend.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
No, I was trying to feel what that would feel like,
if I feel relieved or not.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I think I feel relieved.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Do you a bit?
Speaker 4 (05:18):
M hm?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, that's nice and we better check in with you
at the end of the episode. You feel a bit? Really?
Do you know how you died? How did you die?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Well, here's the thing. I'm a powerful manifestor.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I really do believe in the written and spoken word,
you kind of conjure your life. So my request is
to die peacefully in my sleep in real life. But
for the purpose of a storytelling adventure, I have a
couple of different scenarios.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
The one I'm going to.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Go with, though, I think, is a standoff. I'm a
I'm a cult leader, but I'm misunderstood. Yeah, yeah, misunderstood. Actually,
I'm actually one of the decent ones, and there's a
hostile standoff and I'm martyred.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
It's really more like a hotel.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Hell, are you shot to death by FBI?
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yes I am, Yes, FBI.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Shoot, You're in a hotel room with your with your followers.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
No, no, it's it's my my, my cult experience. It's
a Tuscany and a state in Tuscany, and it's more
like a hotel for friends, like a spar kind of
a feeling a great, Oh, it's fantastic. And then yeah,
they storm in and they've got it all wrong. And
then I'm mark, what's.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
The what's the ethos of your cult? Of this particular one,
the one that you're you're martyred for.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
The ethos would be make yourself as happy as possible,
for as long as possible, doing good for the world
and for yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right. What a tragic way to go, just when you
were spreading that a quite good message. Yeah, well, let's
hope that that message lives on through your your follower
is also shot to death by the FBI.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
I hope not so awkward?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, how long had they seeded the hotel? How long
were you? How long was this stand up?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I'm going to say it was pretty quick. They it
was just such a misunderstanding. They got the call a
bit late.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right, right, Okay, the reception called you and said hey,
and you said, I know, I don't need my room cleaned.
And I said no, no, just to let you know, FBI.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
No, I was completely caught off guard. Oh okay, I
was completely caught off guard.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
They stormed in, then they did what they did, and
then they got the message it's called off it's she's fine,
she checks out.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
And then they're like, oh, do we go with the
cover up?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Or and then they had to kill all your followers
because good no, I know say that this is just
the facts of the facts, and it's listen. It's a
tragic story, but a great Netflix documentary. Do you worry
about death?
Speaker 4 (07:48):
Oh? Of course I do every minute.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
It's the thing that drives every single thing I do,
from making a cup of tea?
Speaker 4 (07:55):
Is this the last? Is this the last and best
cup of tea I can have? Is this the best way?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Always tried to be like, is this the best possible
way I could do this thing?
Speaker 4 (08:03):
In case this is the last time I do this thing.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's pretty great. It's exhausting or is that yeah, that's tiring.
Nice way to approach your cup of tea. You die.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
It makes me a snob a tea snot. It makes
me a snob across the board.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Actually, because you're like, this isn't good enough because everything
is your last. This isn't good enough for my last
t This isn't good enough for my last Mayo.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
That's a terrible mantra. But I guess that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Wow, how long have you been that way?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Since birth? Since birth? Pretty much?
Speaker 1 (08:33):
No time where you weren't worried about imminent death.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
I don't think so. I mean I don't think so.
I started union therapy recently.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
And when you go back to the pre verbal like
what was I feeling and thinking and trying to articulate,
I don't think I ever had a feeling of like
a calm nervous system ever. So I think I always
had some sense of like, WHOA, what's happening here?
Speaker 1 (08:54):
You phonn that way in a panic.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
I do think that that's what happened.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
I think part of it is, honestly, because when I
was in utero, my mom's dad died, and I think
I was flooded with the grief hormone. And then my
father was touring. So here's this twenty two year old
girl suddenly having to take care of a baby, and
she's a baby herself in a basement apartment on Jane
(09:20):
Street in New York City, and I think that that
wasn't a great opening scene.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Wow yeah fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
I mean so I have a totally different nervous system
than my siblings because it's a different thing was happening.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They weren't born through abject grief. They were in Yeah,
so they're all pretty chill.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Well I wouldn't so chill, but uh, they're not as
sad as I am.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Let's say that. Literally, I can be touched by absolutely everything.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
What do you think happens when you die?
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, I do believe that there's I believe in the
cast records. I don't know why I believe in this,
but I do believe that it's like there's a forever
library that you can tap into at anytime that's already
your death self, that can access this thing and know
all things at all times.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
And so I like to imagine that when.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You go, you just shed the thing that's holding you
back from knowing it all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
The forever library. I've never heard that before. Have you
made that up with?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
That's personally, that's what I call it, the forever library.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
I love that. So that's all your past lives or
that's all of universe, all everything of all time ever
exists when you die.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, I think we can
all access it. To me, it's the thing that makes us.
Like when you think about somebody and then they call you,
or you have a little foreshadowing of something, it's because
you've tapped in. But sometimes people can you know, block
the channel, either on the receiving side or on the
sending side. And because it's private, it's private information, you
(10:51):
got to ask permission to go in there.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Oh, you're blowing my mind already. So is that where
like create you know, when we did the podcast before
I talked about the magic, Like when you're writing and
you get sort of lost and you just are writing.
Is that Is that because you're tapped into the forever Library?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
I think?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
So yeah, But what's this thing? So you sometimes have
to shut down your portal to the forever library in
case people can get in that you don't want.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Well, say, let's let's go. Here's a great example. An
ex boyfriend. Maybe instead of cruising their Facebook page, you
might be like, oh, I wonder what he's up to
in that feeling state inside yourself, but you might be like,
it's not my business. That's we've made a contract to
not know one another anymore. So I don't need to
access the file, and he might be blocking it, and
(11:39):
I might want him to block it, or I might
want to block it and have him not be able
to know anything about me.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
It's you know, sometimes it's.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
The reason why people move to other cities so they
can't be found. It's the same thing, except it's in
the Forever Library, you know. It's a good example of
it is in willy Wonka, when all the little particles
are flying over like TV's head.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Past the Forever Library. I mean, that's just a visual one.
I love this, right, I mean already I'm stand into silence. Well,
I've got I've got news for you, means Zeppa, there
is a heaven in this Forever Library. There's a heaven
section where you can just hang out. The only sort
of difference with this place for you is that you
(12:16):
don't feel abject panic at all times of the day.
You feel quite ah. I love it. It's nice, right,
you actually feel that piece here and everything you like
is there, like pillows, pillows in the background. There's lots
of pillows there. It mainly mainly pillow based and but
(12:41):
in this pillow based heaven, they're obsessed with films like
you and me, and they want to know about your
life through film. And the first thing they ask you
is what is the first film that you remember seeing?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
The first film is I think Herbie the love Bug?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Nice? Not really the original, the first one. I'd love
to have a film?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was my first movie going experience
at the cinema.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
Yeah, at the cinema.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Who were you with?
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I think my mother must have taken me and Dweasel
to see it. And what I remember was like laughing
in another space, Like my laughter startled me that I
was like, oh, that it was in another setting spatially,
it went a little farther, traveled different than it did
at home, say, and it was with other people, a
(13:30):
shared laugh experience. So I was maybe that's how opera
singers feel when they encounter a space where a voice
rises to a rafter or something else.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
A sound came out, A big sound came out of me.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Whow where was this? Do you? Whereabouts was this happening?
Speaker 4 (13:45):
I'm assuming it must have been in Hollywood somewhere.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And how old we you may ask?
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Probably five? I don't know what year that thing came out,
but it was little, so you were with a sibling. Yeah,
probably were you the youngest, I'm the oldest.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
You quite extraordinary to have the awareness of, oh, this
sound is in a different space. I'm moving in a
different time space at five, I mean you were, you
were tapped in early.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I've been lonely a while, Brett. It's it's I don't
relate to adjust anyone. It's it's I have to wait
to be interviewed on a podcast with somebody going oh, yeah,
I know that feeling.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Fascinating. What also the love Bug is? I'm sad you
don't think it's good.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I mean no, I remember thinking it was extremely silly.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
It's a lovely card that's like a dog. Even then
he thought this is stupid, this is childish. Believe me,
when we get to the stuff I think it's funny,
you'll be like, oh, grow up, Herbie. All right, what's
the film that scared you the most? Imagine this is
(14:53):
a long list, is it, Tommy? Oh, that is a
fucking scary film.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
That's a terrifying mo That one really scared me. And
what's the one with please sir? They have some more.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
What's that one Oliver Oliver?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
That terrifying to me?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Is it Oliver Reid? Is he? Is? He the villain?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
He's still the scariest person, the scariest actor like that.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
That role is still it haunts me. Whatever he tapped into.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So I tell you you know you've seen ted Lasso, right, Yes,
you've seen some of the part of ted Lasso based
on Oliver reading Oliver.
Speaker 4 (15:30):
Wow, what are you joking right now?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, I'm not. I'm playing Bill Sykes. If Bill Sykes
didn't beat Nancy right now, No I'm not. I'm serious.
If Bill Sykes didn't beat Nancy to death and had
a heart, that's roy Wow.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Wow, that is so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I did watch the film again recently. It's fucking dark
and it's dark. It's really dark. It ends with he
gets hung, he beats Nancy to death. Then he sort
of hung in the street while people there's a mob
underneath him, and then Oliver's sort of there's kind of
a happy ending for Oliver, but not like he's left
a lot of destruction behind him. It's a very dark
(16:09):
upbringing for the poor boy. For it's just he's not
going to change Yeah, those two.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Those two movies are bleak and very disturbing to me.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
How old were you when you saw Tommy?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Oh, maybe eight or nine, I don't know what year
was that. Yeah, that was upsetting to me. You know
another movie that has that same vibratory frequency to me
is eyes wide shut disturbing.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
It just like taps into something. So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
It's like I hear it like a like a musical
note where're like sour, weird, lo I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It's like a yeah, Tommy, Tommy's got a vibe about
it of like sort of dark chaos or something something
like where you go like this is unhinged in a
way that makes me feel unsafe, Like, yeah, this isn't
necessarily fun. There's something very wrong here. Yeah, yeah, I
(17:00):
get that. Yeah. Do you like being scared or is
that something you try to avoid giving you?
Speaker 3 (17:06):
I mean, I'm always scared, so I don't love it.
But I did hear you talking about how you do
love it in one of the episodes, and I and
I was trying to protect like, well, I'm gonna I'm
gonna pretend I'm Brett enjoying this that you seem to Okay,
what would it be like if I did like it?
And uh so I actually have been experimenting with pretending
I like Yeah. It is an interesting thing that if
(17:29):
you in the same way that if you're lying in chivasana,
that's the idea of corpse poses.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You're confronting your death. And so the idea of like.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Actively saying I'm going to examine some fear and move
it outside of myself in a group setting where I
know it's safe, there is something cathartic about that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Theoretically, Wait a second, Chavasina means corpse pise. Yeah, you
fucking that is your three for three, blowing my mind?
What which pose is that? Can you do it? For
the for the patriots are on the vision.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Lying flat on your on your you can have it
at your sides.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's just it's the final pose.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
The final resting pose is shavasan, and to me, it's
the most confronting yoga pose because it's you're you're just
you know, it's you're you're you're saying I'm I'm going
to entirely let go. But it's a it's a nice
practice to see what what could I finally give up?
Let go of, especially if you're you know, letting go
of things that are painful, like if you're a feeling
your own apologies like I feel, for example.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
How you feel I can understand that. Are you any
closer to letting that go work?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
No? I think I think I'm getting closer. I think
it definitely is a life's work. But I think unless
you can do it fast, if I'm always looking for
the most efficient way to Yeah, I mean, I think
it would be nice if a loving person maybe said
the words that no one else is going to say.
And it's it's nice when you can say it yourself,
but it's even nicer when someone else can say to
you with a hand on your and maybe petting your
(19:01):
hair a little bit, maybe you're in their app You know,
that would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
So have you read Evensler's The Apology?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I haven't. I'm looking forward to that. Have you read it?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yes? I think it's life changing as an idea, as
a concept. I will quickly tell the listener Evensler had
a terrible, terrible, dark relationship with her father, spent her
life waiting for an apology, waiting for him to acknowledge
what he did, etc. Sort of blamed all of her
her problems in life on him, on the things that
(19:33):
he damaged to the chob which were truly terrible. And then
he died, and he died having never said the things
she needed to him to say, and so she wrote
this short book which is called The Apology, which is
her imagining him saying the exact words she wanted him
to say, and by doing it, it was a sort
of act of an act of letting go, an act
of these are the things I needed to hear. He
(19:54):
maybe was never capable of it, but it's on me
to accept that. And it's also a very good apology.
It's a real good sort of this is how you apologize. Yeah, yeah,
it's so fascinating and I do, and I've thought about
that a lot. I know, I've definitely experienced a lot
of this where you're so upset with someone and you
(20:15):
want that person to make it right and all of this,
and at some point you have to sort of go,
they don't think like I do. They're never this is
never going to these magical words. I'm they're not coming
because they they're not me, and possibly they're not even
remotely thinking about this, and I'm the one using all
this energy and suffering waiting for this magical anyway here
(20:37):
we are.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Yeah, the word capacity, I just kind of want to
punch it in the taint.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But this is exactly why I thought this podcast would be. Like,
I love it. I'm loving it. I hope you're comfortable.
I mean, you're never comfortable. But right, what's the film
that made you cry? The mice?
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Jim Sheridan's in America is one of them. That one
kills me. I'm tearing up just thinking about it. That
one just kills me.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, is there a particular reason that one that was.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I think in two thousand and two, So my father
died in ninety three, and I think I just didn't
see it coming.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Tearing up just think about it.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
When you know the final the final scene on the
on the you know they're on the fire escape and
they and they're looking at the sky.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Ooh hmmm.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
It just it just I don't even want to give
it away for the for the listeners if they haven't
if they haven't seen the film, but they say a
certain simple phrase that we say all the time when
we're departing, and it just it just undid me just
undid me because it's it was my father's name, and
it just I felt like I got, you know, extra
amplification to send someone away that I really cared about
(21:59):
that film and gravity killed me.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Gravity killed me, killed me like.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Like I had to stay in the theater afterwards howling,
like embarrassingly howling.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Yeah, that one, just another one. It totally captured how
I've always felt like. I always felt like the things
come away from the ship and I'm free falling in
space endlessly.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's meaning. The problem with doing these over zoom it's
very difficult to give you a hug if you're I'm sorry, thanks, Thanks, Brett. Well,
that's a great answer, and I very much relate to
the gravity thing that's her spinning in space forever gave
(22:47):
me a full anxiety, like full like that's the worst
thing that could happen. Yeah, what's the film that most
people people don't like? It's critically not acclaimed, but you
love it with all your heart. You don't give it
a shit what anyone says.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
This is a sleeper film that I think needs a
second look. Downsizing, Yes, Alexander Payne, Yeah, I think this
is a real I think this is a sleeper masterpiece actually,
and I know that I don't.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Even think he likes it, but I think it's really
I think it's I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I don't know, there's something about it that really just
struck me in so many ways.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So why doesn't he like it?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I wonder if I wonder if he really believed what
the critics said about it and just was like, yeah,
I guess it isn't good because I don't know. I'd
love to talk to him about it, because I just
I find it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I just think it's great. I think it should be
studied really truly.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah. I think it's purely that it was so different
from his other type of films that people were just
scared of it or something. I don't know, it was
so different.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, And the structure's weird and the story's weird, and
there's a character in it that you're just like, why
is she in this thing?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
And then you're like, she's the greatest actress A lot.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Like it's I don't know, there's so many pieces of
it that are so weird.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, great shout, very underrated. What the what's the film
that you used to love you loved it hard, and
then you've watched it recently and you've gone, oh no,
I don't feel like that anymore.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Weathering heights that piece of shit.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
I mean, how disfunctional somebody say something in real time
and be in this press Like, how that was to
me the most romantic?
Speaker 4 (24:37):
What this is toxic? I'm spinning. I'm so angry.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
You're right, that is a very desfunctional relationship and we
shouldn't keep celebrating it to sit down and have an
actual talk about their feelings.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
And at some point in the movie, when somebody is
under the weather, they put her in the sun and
make her drink cream.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
I'm like, that is the worst advice under a blanket anyway?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, when is drinking cream ever good? What? What century
was that the cure?
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I know what.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
I'm glad you've brought this up. I think that Bronte
has got a lot to answer for this time we
had we revised our views on them. People love that
as ship. They love a moody gezer. He's a fucking
they do like. That's why I think Fifty Shades of
Gray is so popular because, regardless of what you may
think of it, quality wise, et cetera. It's about a
(25:42):
geezer who's shut down a bit moody, so it's all
all all people are drawn to that dynamic. Oh, he's
so difficult, and maybe I can make it work if
I just let him tie me up and smash me
about a bit in this is the dawn of time
in the in the literatures. Yeah, I'm glad you called
(26:05):
that out.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
What's the antidote to that?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean, I guess the problem is stories about like
emotionally well rounded people just meeting up and getting on
aren't perhaps narrative wise, that interesting. That's the problem with
Enlightenment in it boring?
Speaker 4 (26:31):
That's so funny.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I think that's it. What's the film that means the
most to you? Not necessarily the film itself is any good,
but because the experience you had around seeing it, that
will always make it special to you.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I mean, there's a couple of films like I really
have a soft spot in my heart for the film
Little Darlings. That film also is just I don't know,
it's just I feel like.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
What's Little Darlings?
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Little Darlings is Christy McNichol and Tatum O'Neill and Matt Dylan,
and it's about two girls that go off to summer
camp and they come from opposite sides of the tracks,
and they this camp unites them and they get into
these kind of a quarrel. They decide to lose their
virginity and both of them lie, but one actually does
lose a virginity and one doesn't, and they both lie
(27:18):
about it. One of the things that really struck me
was that was the first time I thought, oh, wait,
we as the audience, know something that they don't know.
So that was like the first time I think I
had that awareness of like POV and how that can
shift and how you give the gift of the POV
to the to the audience that now we're in on
something that we we're holding all of the information. Yeah,
(27:39):
it makes you have to like you have to decide
if you're you're going to keep their secrets or not.
There's something it was very just there was something psychologically
satisfying about it, but also just a really sweet, tender
film about you know, first intimacies and what that looks like.
And I don't know, just that really touched me.
Speaker 4 (27:57):
That film.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
You were probably six when you had that.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
And The other one was is Gangs of New York,
because that one was I had a novel come out
on September eleventh, and I was in New York and
I was two hours into the press and then the
towers came down and all that hard work that I
had done, it was like POMPEII.
Speaker 4 (28:18):
I was like, what was all that for? What was
Why did I you know, cause I had that.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I really had that moment of thinking, my life's about
to start. I finally have done the thing, you know.
I followed the Cameron Crow model, like if you finally
tell you your story, all doors open, and all doors
didn't open, they all exploded closed, and then I had
nothing to do with me, and I was I took
something humongous so personally and so when I saw and
(28:44):
it took me a long time even to be creative
again because it was so much work that just was.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like boop, it's gone.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And then when I saw that film, I had a
context for how to understand it and set it aside.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
I didn't. There was no other way for me to
process it. Prior to that film.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Holy shit, your nine to eleven was nine to eleven. Yeah,
that's insane.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Yeah, it's really intane because but what's really funny is
when the book came out in the UK the first
day of press, I was in this little, you know,
little bookstore in Manchester and two skinheads came to the reading,
and one one right before I started to read from
the book, he says, we're.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Not here for you, We're here for your father.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
And I was like, oh, and I said, I said
thank you so much, thank you so much. And then
he was so disgruntled that I didn't take the bait,
and then he goes, no, we're not here.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
For you, for your father.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I say, thank you so much. That is so kind,
thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
And then somebody else goes, that's not very nice. And
then they just started punching people in the head in
the audience, and I was like, am I on a
camera hidden camera show? I know it was that.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
And it was like a third of the people, like
like one of those test study groups, Like a third
of the people ran for help, a third of the
people hid, and a third of the people like got
all scrappy with and I'm just staying there frozen, going
I don't know what to do. I don't know what's
happening anyway. After that, after that event, somebody said, well,
this has never happened before, and if I that has
that sentence has been said so many times on my watch.
(30:19):
And she said, well, at least it won't be this
bad in the States. This will never happen again.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
And she was right, Wow, why what was what?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
I don't even understand. I don't know what would What
were these men wanting when they said we're here for
your father like that?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
You I don't even think they were Zappa fans. That
was It was so weird, So they I don't I
don't know they were just they were just hooligans.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
So I guess me tell you. I look, I'm sure
this is a you don't have to Is it mad
to have grown up.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
With completely completely?
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah? And you always knew it was mad?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yes, And I usually I tell people it was like
having across between Jesus and Spock for a father.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
Like even if it was if it.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Was Jesus as the time, I would have been like, oh,
do you have to do everything for everybody?
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Can we just have can we?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah? Oh yeah? Can we walk on water in our
swimming pool? Just us?
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Just us for a change?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, man. And that's a difficult I was thinking, I am,
I think that must I don't know. Look you could.
I'm sure you've talked about this. It must be very hard,
it must be very hard to constantly to that being
a reference. Well.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
The other thing too, is most people, when somebody passes away,
they stay dead, and little by little their voice fades,
or their image fades, or their mannerisms fade. There is
no chance this zombie lives on and on.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Zombie Jesus, Wow, fascinating. That story of your book is
fucking mad mad. I mean, it's difficult not to see
that as a side.
Speaker 4 (32:02):
To stop creating, just be a stay at home something.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
I guess if the world literally ended while I was
promoting a book, I'd be like, you didn't. I guess
you didn't lie that one? That guy? Okay, you're amazing. Okay,
So what's the film that you must relate to?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Well, again, it hasn't been made yet, but I would say,
uh yeah, Gravity probably is the closest to the feeling tone.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Alien is another one.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
I would say, who in Alien? The Alien? Oh?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
You know another movie that that speaks to me is
I can't think of it.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
It's Amy Adams.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
It's another Yeah, you know the Alien one.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Arrival, Arrival, Arrival?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
I love that film? Why why that one?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
There's something about the responsibility that the position she's put in,
the decision she has to make. She's you know, like
a grand scale space holder literally and a pioneer. I
mean that that movie is making that makes me choke
up too. Just what she you know those those are?
That movie is so fascinating. I went to read on
(33:19):
about the writer. I was like, forget the movie.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
This writer's amazing. What is he? What else is this
person thinking about?
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You read his book, his book of short stories that
that's from. I read that. Have you read it?
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
I didn't read it, but I went and read that
piece of about that story and how, and then I
learned more about how that what that story actually is about,
and I was just fascinated by it.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
He is quite the mind means uppa, what is the
sexiest film ever made?
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Well?
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Okay, well there's a scene in The Postman Always Rings twice?
Speaker 4 (33:52):
Come on dirty?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
That doesn't come up? Hasn't come up? What doesn't come up?
On this? Yeah? Good shot, good chow.
Speaker 4 (33:58):
Yeah, that is very that's just that's just ridiculous. She's amazing.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
I think she might be that she she exudes sex appeal,
all that jazz.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Good lord her in Kate Fear. I mean, she's amazing.
That's a really good shout and I'm surprised that hasn't
come up. And that is on that list of films
where people were like, oh did they do it for real?
Because it looks like it and they were going out
at the time when they say legit, good show means appa.
(34:29):
There's a sub category to this question, traveling Bone is worrying,
why does what's the film you found arousing that you
weren't sure you should?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Ten? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Why why not?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Because I think I don't know, there's it's it's kind
of misogynistic. Oh yeah, yeah, So I think whenever whenever
I identify with the misogynist and something, I'm like, that's weird,
you know, when I when I'm objectifying somebody, it's that's
a weird feeling to be looking through that that lens.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
That's very interesting, yes, but well, perhaps it shows the
power of all this culture because it is designed to
be arousing and exciting, and I guess even with intellectual
lenses on it, it's hard not to be moved by it.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I would say the same thing with Flash Dance,
that scene with the water and the shadow. I don't
think that that's necessarily supposed to be for girls to
be aroused by, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
But I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
That's why am I having a lady feeling about this
as a heterosexual lady.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
That's yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Another weird scene that is creepily erotic is oh god,
it's a rape.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Scene in Brooklyn something Brooklyn. What's her name? Jennifer Jason
Lee is in the back of a car getting gang raped.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Oh, last exit to Brooklyn.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yeah, last exit to Brooklyn. That scene. I'm just like that.
I got to see a therapist after this. I don't
know what. Why did that? Huh? I shouldn't do the thing.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
No, I mean fair play. That's a perfect answer. You can't.
There's nothing more troubling than that answer. That is a
troubling boner. Some people really struggle with that question. You've
passed with flags. Does it surprise me? What is what
(36:30):
is objectively, objectively the greatest film of all time?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Laurens of Arabia?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, yeah, okay, moving on, what is the film that
you could or have what's the most over and over again?
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Heaven can wait? Really?
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I love the reason wonder one bet you one?
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Yes that when that? I love that film so much.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
It's a lovely film.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, Charles Grodin is so funny. Can It's so funny?
And then just that story is so touching to me?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Is it? Is it? Julie Christie, m mamma Miah Y
so love it. So it's And that's the film that
got remade a million times, and it was originally called
a Guy called Joe? Is that right?
Speaker 4 (37:16):
I think so?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Then always this sort of that as well.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Mm hm.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Basically he dies and then comes back for a bit.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Yeah, And in this in this iteration of it, he's
he comes back in the body of an old man
and somebody he shouldn't get along with.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
They they have a connection.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
And then when he finally wins her over because she
doesn't want to be won over by this person, then
he they find the alternate body he's supposed to be
in because there's a you know, a fuck up in heaven,
and then they all remember him, but then he doesn't
remember them. So there's this piece of like that they
have to start over again, and maybe it'll work out,
(37:54):
maybe it won't. But do you remember that how that
how she they recognize something each other's eyes and then
he doesn't record.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
He can't.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
He's lost the ability, he's afresh being. But she still
has to now be the holder of this idea.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I like that idea a lot. You know what, I
think one of the most romantic films I've ever made
is fifty First Dates, The Adams and the film.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
The idea that you have to start every single day
again with a blank slate and make someone pull in
love with you all over again every day. I think
that's okay.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Isn't that like the Enlightenment you were objecting to just
a few sentences a girl.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
When you put it like fifty first dates, that's not boring,
is it?
Speaker 4 (38:39):
No?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Wow? I guess Enlightenment's okay. I'm glad we found their
way back to it. That was the devil distracting way,
taking me off the path, the devil with my again.
Enlightenment's boring. Yeah, that sound bory, go over there. We
(39:04):
don't like to be negative. I don't think you do either.
What's the worst film you've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Bridges of Madison County in the DA Vinci Code.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
A heck of a double bill. Why I mean Davindy guide.
I understand why Bridges, the beloved Bridges of Master County.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Because just this whole thing of like, I'm having an
affair and I family found myself and I'm not gonna
go with my true hearts thing because I'm gonna I'm
gonna go back to my family and just continue living alive.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
But it's a secret line.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's like what garbage and then torture the family and
then the kids find the thing and they're like.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Wait, what who was? Who was our mother? Even?
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And now we're supposed to be like what are we
How we're supposed to feel about that other than confuse, angry,
the complexity, the selfishness.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Oh no, you gave up your happiness for us, and
we're supposed to be pleased about this, but now we
live with the guilt of you could have been happy,
but we held you back. You put all that on us.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Why did you even have us? And now we have
no way to argue it out with you. Fuck you?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
This person was obsessed with Bridges. You cares this is
your guy? What did he do?
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Take bridges and I really think like you do, think
about a bridge guy.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Really.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Anyway, that is a that's a great shot. What's the film?
It means up but you're funny. What's the film that
made you laugh the most?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
Okay, so well, there's so many, but one that shouldn't
make me laugh Caveman with Ringo Star and.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Cave Man You don't You're you're not really missing much.
But that was as a kid, that one really made
me laugh.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
What is it? It's Ringo Star as a cave man.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
Yeah, and what's I want to say? Yeah, no, it
was it was just that was silly. I can't that's
I loved all the airplane movies as a kid. I
loved all the Pink Panther movies. I loved Time Bandits
was a favorite.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh wow, I want to know more about this game
man show. It's Ringo Star. What it's like California Man,
It's like Encino Man, but with Ringo.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Star, It's it's just it's just the most dumb. It's
just dumb that there's you know, I know the song.
I don't want to have to pay money for the
the composer, but anyway, there's just.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
You're not gonna have to. I think we all want
to hear this song because.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You know, there's like a there's a blind cave man.
Speaker 3 (41:38):
He keeps switting his hand in fire. It's hilarious, you
know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Moon Zappa, you've been a wonderful guest. You've been everything
I hoped you'd be. This has been wonderful. Thank you
for sharing everything. However, when you became a cult leader,
which isn't I think much of a stretch, and you've
moved your you and your followers to a hotel in Tuscany,
it's a lovely cult preaching sort of tolerance and love
(42:09):
and being good to other people and good to yourself.
I think the fact that you kept aggressively calling it
a cult raised some alarms when it was arguably a
holiday with some friends, but you kept you kept saying
it's a coat, it's like a cult in it. And
someone at the hotel, I think there's a cult in
our hotel, and they call the FBI, as as hotels do.
(42:31):
The FBI showed up. You were in the middle of
a meditation, you know, you were doing yoga and you
were doing corpse pose, which again I'm not making any judgment,
but I feel like that was misleading. And the FBI
bang on the door. You thought it was has keeping.
Next thing you know, they come in with guards, kill you,
shoot you dead, and then they say, oh shit, I
(42:53):
don't think she was as bad as we thought. And
the followers say, we saw what you did, and they go,
you saw it, did you? And then they shoot all
of the itself. It is a mess. Now. I happen
to be passing. I was just doing a little tour
of sets from Kenneth Brown has much ado about nothing.
So I was in Tuscany and I heard about this colt.
(43:16):
I said, I know about this colt a bit. And
I go to the hotel and I said, there's this
coat and I go, ah, it's been a bit noisy
from that room. I go to the room. It's a
fucking massacre. Everyone's dead. You are splattered. I'm sorry, but
you are splattered against the wall. I have to get
I brought a coffin with me, by the way, I'm
always walking with a coffin, like how we have a
Clint Eastwood. The coffin I had was the size of you.
(43:39):
But there's you're splattered onto fucking the wall. I'm having
to chip bits of the wall off, pick up bits
of the carpet that you're spread into. Anyway, I stuff
you into this coffin, but there's more of you than
was expected because of all the extra bits that you've
stuck to stuffed you in. It's jam pat. There's very
(43:59):
little room for anything. There's enough room for one DVD
for a pillow. No, no pillow, I'm afraid. Oh okay,
one DVD that I can slide into the side of
the coffin for you to take to the other side.
And on the other side, it's movie night every night,
and one night it's your movie night. What film are
you taking to show the people in heaven when it's
(44:20):
your movie night, moons Apper.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Today, just for today, it's going to be Force Maseure
the Avalanche.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Wow wee movie because you want everyone to feel deeply
uncomfortable to heaven.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Remember this feeling you're left behind, Remember having to make
choices and having a bit of conflict and affects everything.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
And this was life, right, this was life, guys. We're free.
Not a bad choice. It's a great shout, moons Appy,
You've been brilliant. Is there anything you would like to
tell people to look out for or listen to or read,
perhaps your novel novels.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
You know what I would tell people to read the
book Breath by James Nestor. That's what I would tell
people to read. That book is a game changer. It's
a it's about how to breathe, actually how to breathe.
It's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Does it have a section on how to self promode?
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I'm a cult leader till the end.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
I want I want you to be uplifted, at empowered
and live your exceed your your expectations for yourself, so
to go beyond beyond.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Well, I'm happy to be part of your cult. Thank
you very much for doing this means Eppa have a
lovely death and good night.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
So.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
That was another rewind classic. We'll be back on August
night with ten brand new episodes. Thanks for listening. I
hope you're all well. I hope you're having a lovely summer.
Thank you to screwp This, Pip and the Destruction Pieces Network.
Thanks to Buddy Peace and producing it. Thanks to iHeartMedia
and Will Peraoh's Big Money Players Network for hosting it.
Thanks to Adam Richardson for the graphics and leads to
Laden for the photography. So that is it for now.
In the meantime, have a lovely week and please be
(46:11):
excellent to each other
Host
Brett Goldstein
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