February 21, 2024 • 33 mins
Host Chris Moody explores Matt Drudge's increasing recluviness, his site's flirtation with conspiracy and how he became as relevant as ever when Donald Trump entered the 2016 presidential race. Moody interviews Trump campaign operatives about Drudge's relationship with Trump -- and how Drudge played a role in Trump's 2016 electoral success. If you have a great Matt Drudge story, remember to call the hotline at 301-200-2414 and tell Chris about it!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ever since Matt Drudge burst onto the national scene in
the nineteen nineties, he's remained a curious enigma. With his
trademark Fedora, his old fashioned tabloid news style, and refusal
to play by the so called rules of journalism, he
created an air of mystery around himself. But despite his
status as an outsider, he was still a man about town.
(00:22):
You'd see him at cocktail parties, He'd pop into green
rooms and appear on c Span. His appearances made news themselves.
There he was posing for photos on the red carpet
at the White House Correspondence dinner in Washington. His appearance
at Tammy Haddad's garden brunch made a huge splash as
she escorted him around the party, showing him off like
a prize. But by two thousand and eight, when his
(00:44):
sight was humming with twenty million hits per day, Drudge
stopped showing up in person. He ended his weekly radio
show the year before. Other than his website updates, Drudge
was simply starting to vanish. By the time he started
posting pro Donald Trump content in twenty sixteen, he was
almost impossible to reach, making it harder and harder to
(01:06):
understand where he was coming from, and people noticed. Gabriel Sherman,
a writer for The New Republic at the time, called
Drudge the underground man. Drudge, Sherman noted in two thousand
and nine, has almost completely disappeared from public life. When
Drudge showed his face at Hillary Clinton's concession speech in
(01:27):
two thousand and eight, his mere presence was a news
event in itself. After all, it was one of the
only times he'd been seen in public that year. There
was plenty of speculation floating around. According to Sherman, Rush
Limbaugh had advised him to go dark. People who had
been in touch with him over AOL, instant messenger and
email found that Drudge stopped responding to their messages. A
(01:50):
friend of Drudge asked why he was being such a recluse.
According to Sherman's reporting, Drudge said, I don't need to
go out there and talk. So why did Matt Drudge
just vanish? Well, let's dive in. I'm Chris Moody and
this is finding Matt Drudge. How could the most powerful
(02:13):
man in media basically just vanish from public life? From
JMW Productions and iHeartMedia. This is finding Matt Drudge. Brian Lamb,
the founder of c SPAN, used to have Matt Drudge
(02:34):
on his morning talk show all the time, and then
suddenly Drudge stopped responding to his messages. Lamb has no
idea why, but he does have theories if.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
He's doing this on purpose, being unavailable because he wants
to either get out of the spotlight, or he wants
to create an intrigue. He's done it. I'd love to
interview him again. Trust me, we'd asked and we get
no response. I would ask him the obvious. The obvious
(03:06):
questions to Matt Drudge is where are you? What's your
life like? Has the Drudge Report turned out to be
what you hoped it would be? And why did you
go underground? What led you to that? But people do,
as you know, Chris, they go off the stage and
there's a whole bunch of them. Megan, he you never
(03:26):
hear from again. I wish you did, but they all
just say I'm out a here, you know. And so
that may be the simplest answer.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's a question that baffles people to this day. Where
is Matt Drudge? Where did he disappear? To Felipe Rhinus
was the longtime aide to Hillary Clinton. We met in
a previous episode. He actually met Drudge in person at
a White House Correspondence weekend brunch in the early odds.
As a high profile Democratic operative, Rhinus knew firsthand all
(03:55):
about Drudge's power.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
The simplest answer is that he got sick of it.
And I think every one of us can identify. It
is not a healthy situation. It is not good for
the soul.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
There are people who have good jobs, but even that
probably takes a lot out of them, just in terms
of fighting and negativity. And you know, the speed of
things is really accelerated, so it's awesome that doesn't might
not like the pace I would imagine, because see it
(04:31):
was just done.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But of course Matt Drudge wasn't done. His site continued
to churn out links, It did monster traffic even after
he stopped showing his face in public. People just expected
Drudge not to show his face. His absence from the
public stage simply became the norm. But that all changed
(04:53):
on March six, twenty twelve. One of Drudge's first employees
was an internet entrepreneur, editor, and conservative activist named Andrew Breitbart.
Breitbart ran the site for Drudge several hours a day
before breaking away to start his own website, Empire Breitbart News.
But in the middle of the Republican presidential primaries in
(05:14):
twenty twelve, Breitbart, only forty three years old, suddenly died
of heart failure. His premature death came as a shock
to his family, his friends, and devoted staff. On March sixth,
they gathered in Los Angeles to pay their final respects.
Breitbart's old boss, Matt Drudge, was slated to speak at
(05:35):
the service. Few people had seen him in years. Would
he really show up to such a public place. Steve Bannon,
who would go on to lead Breitbart's side after Andrew
Breitbart's death, was at the service when he caught sight
of Matt Drudge. Matt Drudge's appearance, Bannon recalled, was shocking.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
People had not seen Matt for years and were sitting
there at the service starts. It's right at the cemetery,
and you know, I'm sitting in like the second or
third row off to the side, to the right, and
all of a sudden, somebody comes and taps on the
shoulder and he had wrapped around sunglasses on, and I
kind of it didn't look like Matt Drudge, but I
(06:17):
kind of felt it might be Matt Drudge.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What did he look like?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
He he looked like and Adonna's I mean, he was
like in amazing shape. Everybody told me. Because I hadn't
known him before, but I had watched him when he
had his show, and I'd seen some pictures of him.
He always looked like he was kind of a pudgy guy.
That wasn't Matt Drudge. Matt Rudge was fully ripped.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Despite his physique, Drudge was still wary about being in public.
He told Bannon that he didn't want to get up
and talk at the funeral.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Matt tapped me on the shoulder, didn't make a big deal,
and Uh just whispered to me and says, hey, I
don't really feel that comfortable speaking. If you guys don't mind.
I said, hey, not a problem. You do what you want,
not an issue. And then Matt did not hold court afterwards.
Didn't like go around on Mad Drudge or something that
was off to the side.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Larry O'Connor was an editor at Breitbart's website at the
time who attended the funeral.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
He flew in that day and it was interesting because,
like we had recognized him and knew him, but he
was just sort of sitting by himself and sort of
keeping to himself. Before the service began, and I think
it was Larry Solov's mother who came over to me
and Meredith and said, guys, go over and talk to Matt.
No one's talking to Matt, and so we introduced ourselves
(07:32):
and talked to him that day.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Andrew Breitbart had died just days before. The staff were
planning a major redesign of their new site. Matt Drudge
asked Larry what they would do with the site now
that Breitbart was gone.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
He goes, well, what are you going to do with
the site now? And we said, well, we're we're of
course moving forward. We'll be launching in a few days
and everything. He goes, well, what are you going to
call it? And it was just weird as it's like, well,
of course, we're going to call it Breitbart News. And
he said, well, but how could you do that because
Andrew's not going to be running it anymore. And he
(08:06):
was like, well, we believe that this is still his
legacy and we want his name to go on and
we want people to always know Andrew Breitbart's name, even
if they didn't know Andrew Breitbart the man. And he said, Oh,
I could never do that, And we're like really, He says, oh, yes,
when I die, I just want Drudge to disappear. I
want the site to disappear. And he started did a
(08:26):
little thing with his hand like it would just dissolve
into the mist when Matt Drudge was no longer.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Do you know where Matt Drudge is? If you have
a great Matt Drudge story, they can shed insight into
the mysterious mogul and help us on our search. Call
us at three zero one two zero zero two four
one four and tell us about it. We may even
air your message in the final episodes of the show.
If you want us to credit you, please say so
and leave your name. Andrew Breitbart's funeral had been scheduled
(09:02):
on Super Tuesday, one of the most important days of
the twenty twelve Republican presidential primary. Drudge might have taken
time to attend the funeral, but he also had work
to do. Here's Larry O'Connor.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
Greg Guttfeld was hosting a big wake, a big party
to sort of celebrate the incredible life of Andrew, and
it was supposed to be fun and joyful, and because
that's Andrew was fun and joyful and said, you know,
at the end of the start and said, Mat, come
on with us. We'll drive you over there and everything.
And he goes, I can't. I got to go back
to the hotel room. And I were like, why, come on,
you got to come to the day. He said, it's
(09:35):
Super Tuesday, I gotta work. It's Matt Drudge and how
long has that site been up and running? And you'd
think he could get somebody on the day of Andrew
Breitbart's funeral to run the site on Super Tuesday, But
either he just didn't want to be around a lot
of people, or he was that dedicated to being on
top of the news and writing the site in his
(09:57):
voice that night, I don't know, but it was an
interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And before people knew it, Drudge was out the door.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
He came and shook a few hands, stood in the back,
you know, acknowledged a few people, I think, and then
I think it left immediately for the airport. And it
was like ten minutes of that. Didn't you know, He's
not a guy could come in and I'm Matt Druge.
He's not a guy who's going to hold court or
get a line and people signing autographs or take you know,
selfies or things like that. It just doesn't seem like
that's him.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Still, his mere presence made an impact. Here's Carrie Pickett,
a reporter who was there for them. Matt Drudge's presence
surprised him. When you were at the funeral talking to
all of Andrew's friends, did Drudge's presence come up in conversations, Oh.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
Sure, absolutely, They're like, Matt was here, Matt is here,
Like where is he? He's gone, oh okay, Like did
you see him? No?
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (10:52):
It was almost like he sort of didn't want to
make the funeral about himself, but more than likely more
about it Andrew. He was sort of an elusive He
was sort of in and out in a flash.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
And that was it.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Drudge was gone, as far as I can gather reporting
this podcast. That was one of Drudge's last known big
public appearances, if you can even call it that. His
descent into extreme privacy continued into the twenty tens. In
twenty thirteen, Drudge sold his home in Miami Beach and
moved away from town to a secluded compound hideaway in
(11:30):
the far reaches of civilization near the Florida Everglades. During
that same time, readers of Drudge's site began to notice
a fascination with conspiracy theories. Drudge regularly started linking to
websites that trafficked infringe content. An investigation by the liberal
Center for American Progress in twenty twelve found that Drudge
(11:52):
had linked to websites like Alex Jones, Info Wars, and
WorldNet Daily, a site that constantly espoused the cop U r'
se theory that President Barack Obama wasn't born in the
United States. The report noted that Drudge had linked to
the sites nearly two hundred times, directing viewers to sites
where readers could explore content about how nine to eleven
(12:14):
was an inside job or crackpot ideas about how the
federal government was planning to round conservatives up into internment
camps run by FEMA. In December twenty twelve, a twenty
year old shooter murdered twenty six people at Sandy Hook
Elementary School. Twenty of the victims were children. It wouldn't
be long before Alex Jones would call the massacre a
(12:36):
false flag operation, a crusade against the victims' families that
would result in a lawsuit that would cost him a
billion dollars. Just before New Year's Eve in twenty twelve,
Drudge took to Twitter to publicly urge CNN to host
Alex Jones in prime time. This was before Jones had
(12:56):
made the comments about Sandy Hook, but his conspiracist views
were already well known, and only a few weeks later,
you know what happened. Piers Morgan welcomed Alex Jones on
his CNN show in January twenty thirteen, and it went
about exactly as you might imagine.
Speaker 10 (13:14):
Seventeen seventy six will commence again. If you try to
take our firearms, Pierce, don't try what your ancestors did before.
Why don't you come to America. I'll take you out shooting.
You can become an American and join the Republic.
Speaker 9 (13:28):
You finished.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Matt Drudge and Alex Jones clearly admired each other. Two
years later, while Alex Jones was filming his daily show
on Info Wars, Matt Drudge walked into his studio in Austin,
Texas and gave one of the longest on air interviews
he'd ever given, which also happened to be one of
his last. Alex Jones was shocked.
Speaker 8 (13:51):
It's amazing to have you here in Austin, Texas. You
certainly know how to make an entrance. I'm in a
seventy second break and I turn around and there's Matt
Drudge just boom. I tell you, I'm almost out an
art attack.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Drudge refused to show his face on air that day.
Jones only showed a silhouette of Drudge wearing that Fedora,
and viewers heard just his voice. The interview turned out
to be one of the deepest looks we have into
the mind of Drudge. During this interview, Drudge outlined much
about what he had learned in the decades in the
press and his thoughts on the state of technology, of media,
(14:28):
and politics. He congratulated Jones on building a media company
independent of corporate structures. He bemoaned how boring and flat
media organizations that he had once cherished had become. He
longed for the Internet to return to a place of dynamism, unpredictability,
and danger that it once was.
Speaker 11 (14:48):
The Enginet allows you to make your own dynamic, your
own universe, Drudge to me, when I look at it
right now, is a correction to this group think that
has I totally agree with that. There's no difference from
any of these websites between a slate or a salon.
What is the difference?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
There isn't any. Drudge celebrated and cherished his independence. His
disconnection from the world was what gave him power, and
he loved it. The insights from this interview gave us
a vital look into this reasoning for him going underground.
The media is trying to put us to sleep.
Speaker 11 (15:28):
And the reason I think the Drudge Report is interesting
every morning is it's not exactly the same as you
would see elsewhere, and that's because I'm not involved with
other people. I'm looking at the world through my eyes,
and that's what you're seeing. They've got no control over
the situation, none, no control, no control over me, sorry zero.
(15:49):
I live in a world that's free, colorful, vibrant, takes chances, bold,
stands up to power, and that's where I've made my success.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Drudge was proud of the fact that he had built
his empire outside the establishment media infrastructure. It was this
that bonded him with people like Alex Jones, who had
done the same. Then, after forty or so conspiratorial yet
captivating minutes with Alex Jones, Matt Drudge was gone again,
(16:18):
back behind the curtain of his website. The interview revealed
what excited Matt Drudge. He was obviously drawn to independent voices,
people who broke the mold, people who didn't care what
people thought, who did their own thing. And then along
came Donald Trump. Drudge's personal secrecy didn't slow down his
(16:41):
impact as the nation entered a new presidential race in
twenty sixteen, this time between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump,
Drudge arguably entered one of his most influential periods. With
the presidential campaign underway, Drudge's site became an increasingly supportive
place for Trump's candidate to see. Drudge consistently ran banner
(17:02):
stories celebrating Trump's rise. By the end of the Republican primary,
it was clear that Drudge was all in for Trump.
This wasn't an accident. The Trump campaign had spent years
making a concerted effort to woo him. Sam Nunberg was
an aide to Donald Trump for years before Trump announced
his presidential run in twenty fifteen. Number knew how crucial
(17:27):
Drudge's support would be helping Trump, and he worked to
curry favorable coverage.
Speaker 9 (17:33):
I am known for a while that Drudge had an
interest in Trump. I had heard from others who had
met with him. I don't want to break their confidences
that Drudge was saying, well, if Donald runs, I'm gonna
be with Donald. Wouldn't it be great for Trump to run?
Trump can wait because he's immedia fascination, same way Drudge was.
And Drudge was, you know, into the tabloids himself. Donald
(17:56):
is a tabloid. He's a living tabloid. Right. Drudge was
our New York Times, he was our Washington Post. It
was our newswire. It was the newswire for Republican primary politics.
If you wanted to control media in twenty sixteen, twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen, particularly in the Republican primary, you would do
(18:18):
it through Drudge. You needed something to break through, something
that our people were looking at. He has a hand
on the pulse of the Republican populace. If you got
a headline on Drudge, if you got a hyperlink, not
even a headline, if you've got a hyperlink on Drudge,
you would be able to be sure that you're going
(18:38):
to get the earned media. You're going to get three
points on conservative talk radio on TV right. If you
were getting hit hard by Drudge, you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Didn't have a chance.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
If you weren't getting any coverage by Drudge, I don't
think you had a chance unless you had millions and
millions of dollars to spend.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Nunberg started working Drudge early in twenty thirteen, when Trump
visited Iowa, Trump gave an interview to Matt Boyle of
Breitbart News with the hope that it would land on
the Drudge Report.
Speaker 9 (19:12):
I remember twenty thirteen, It's the first time I travel
with him, and I say, well, can we do an
interview mister Trump with Matt Boyle before you head to Iowa?
And does he? He goes, sure, of course, call him.
He gives an interview at how he's going to Iowa.
We land. When we land and we're talking, like you know,
less than a two hour flight. The article's up and
it's linked on the top of Drudge and I remember
(19:36):
saying to Donald, we're on Drudge. We're on Drudge. Drudge
I think really helped him get the coverage. Even that
weekend to be a legitimate candidate.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
What did Donald Trump think of Matt Drudge.
Speaker 9 (19:51):
He said that he and met Matt and mar Lago.
He always said, tell Mat, I say, hi said to me,
smart guy, smart guy. And he was interested in the
fact that esthetically the website wasn't that pleasing looking, and that,
you know, it was interesting to him. The power it
(20:11):
had when it wasn't a shining you know, wasn't shining gold, right.
I guess he was always interesting and more in terms
of the power that Matt had. He would ask me,
who were Matt's friends who you know? How do you
influence that more? Or how can we influence him? And
(20:32):
would ask me if he's getting the coverage from that
on certain articles, he would say, see if Matt'll put
this up, We'd send it and I'd say it was
when I worked for it was eight out of ten
times a week and go up on Drudge Report.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Eventually, Trump even started printing out screenshots of the Drudge
Report and would scribble handwritten letters sent directly to Drudge. Sam,
do you remember any instances and any strategies that you
guys had to try to influence the Drudge Report and
make it a part of your campaign strategy.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
Emails him directly. Multiple times. I would send emails to
Drudge updates. He would to respond. I would see see
Charlie Hurd on them, who I think was the editor
at that point I had heard. I would have notes.
Goddald would send attach them to the emails.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Wait, when you say notes, you mean handwritten not what
did the notes say?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Fucked Matt?
Speaker 9 (21:23):
Look at this? Or be a headline that Matt did
Matt and eat circle it. Thanks a lot, Thanks a lot.
I'm working hard here, something along those lines, you know
what I mean. I'm sure Drudge loved those right. Drudge
thought he was making a president too. You know, the
dirty little secret that we had was we meet the
media people that we needed, the influencers steel as if
(21:43):
they were part of this.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
In those early days of Trump's candidacy, you have to
remember that Trump was not the beloved figure among Republicans
that he grew to be later. People were skeptical of
him and some downright hostile. He needed all the help
he could get. Here's Steven who would go on to
become a Trump campaign advisor and later his White House
chief strategist.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Trump had very little support in conservative ink and very
little support in the Republican establishment. Fox was very anti
Trump at that time, you know, tried to take Trump
out in the first debate with Megan Kelly. You know,
Drudge was very populist, very nationalist. Most of conservative media
were you know, National Review, Weekly Standard, Daily Caller, They
(22:29):
were all, you know, very negative on Trump. Trudge was
not just positive on Trump, he's putting stuf up. It
is also positive on the populist nationalist movement very much so.
He's always been anti establishment. He saw Trump as a
very much an anti establishment figure. Barke, Bart and Drudge
got Trump through the through the primary.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Handwritten notes weren't the only things being sent to Drudge
from the Trump campaign. Not long after Trump announced his
presidential campaign in twenty fifteen, Roger Ayles, then the chairman
and CEO of Fox News, fed pulling data with Donald
Trump showing that he might just fare pretty well. Trump
called members of his staff to share the news. Corey Lewandowski,
(23:09):
Hope Hicks, and Sam Nunberg. Nunberg recalled the time that
Trump intentionally leaked the positive data directly to Drudge.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
He called Hope, Corey and me up to his office
because he had just dot with ails upter his announcement,
and they told him that Box News poll and he said,
do not anything leak at Roger will be pissed. And
then he called me back in and he gave me
the poll, and he gave me the numbers, and he
told me send this to Matt.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Do you think Drudge was responsible for making Trump?
Speaker 9 (23:38):
I give Drudge more credit than any other media, including
them billions of dollars of free media. Donald would always get.
I give him war credit. Donald's ultimately responsible for making
no right. Was he an important ingredient? One hundred percent?
He was.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Drudge started attending presidential debates. By the time the general
election rolled around, he had moved from the audience to
backstage watching the debates with Trump campaign operatives as though
he were a member of the campaign himself. In the
twenty sixteen debate between Trump and Hillary Clinton in Las Vegas,
Drudge joined campaign staffers Steve Bannon, David Bossi, and Jared
(24:15):
Kushner and others to watch the debate. Here's Bannon.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Matt showed up and actually sat in the room with
us and watched the h and watched the debate just
appeared out of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
He sat with campaign staffers.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
They sat with Jared myself, Jared myself. Bossy just came in,
didn't say a word, Hey, Matt, good to see, had
the hat on, just sat down and he watched the debate.
I don't remember him ever saying a word. And then he, uh,
you know, I went to go get the president or
the you know, the candidate, and I think Matt left
shortly thereafter. I think Jared probably he probably gave Jared
(24:51):
a heads up, but he came in. It was only
four or five of us. I think it was Kelly Inn, myself, Jared.
I think Evoka might have been their date.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Bossy.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Matt came in, sat down, said hi, but I'm going
to real quick, quiet like nod because the thing has
already started. And then I left a few minutes before
the end to get right at the closing statements to
make sure we could get to pick up the candidate.
And I think Matt just slipped down left shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's very on brand for him to come, you know,
quietly in and quickly out.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That's him.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
The Trump campaign staff weren't the only ones to notice
that Drudge had slipped backstage. Hillary Clinton and her staff
saw him too. Felipe Rhyinus was walking into the secure
area of the debate hall, well passed secret service, and
there unmistakably was Matt Drudge wandering around without any credentials,
as if he owned the place. Here's Rhinus the motor gate.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
We left the hotel. Everyone piles out, always like a
party tent, but narrow. You know by definition, if you're
being led through there, it is probably for security reasons.
I would have thought it was strange if he was
ahead of us walking in, but it was also walking out.
(26:17):
I remember we got out of the motorcade and were
walking into the Chuot and Matt Driugro was coming out.
He was coming out with any credentials.
Speaker 9 (26:27):
It was almost as if.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Barack Obama was walking out. It was almost like he
had done what he went to do and then was living,
which I'm not sure what that could possibly be. He
was wearing the hat, so it's pretty easy to identify it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Were you walking in with the candidate with Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yes, Clinton's staff were baffled.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Where he was coming out of was a highly controlled there.
It was where both candidates entered into the venue.
Speaker 9 (27:00):
It would have been.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Again, I mean, when once you become the nominee, which
both at that point Hillary and Donald Trump were, You've
got almost a presidential level security package. It's not a daggle.
There's no bomb truck at the back. It's for all
intents and purposes pretty similar. And it's not as if
(27:24):
you just show up and there's no pre position agents.
You have advance agents.
Speaker 9 (27:31):
So it was just strict.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
The number of people that must have let him through,
it's more than zero. And I don't know now again,
maybe because he was exiting people don't think. But it
was odd. It was odd. I just don't know how
he pulled it off. It was, without a doubt slopping.
It was, without a doubt, a violation of a lot
(27:55):
of things for some guy to just be walking at,
you know, the candidate. I did get a sense that
he can do.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
He was just I did it.
Speaker 9 (28:05):
But it was weird.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
But he's not Dan Rather. Yeah, I bet Dan Rather
would have been stopped after that.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Drudge's intimacy with the campaign only grew. By election night,
Trump's top brass were calling him asking for advice, and
Matt Drudge gave it. Here's Bannon we.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Felt pretty comfortable. Jared and I thought we had a
pre good handle on this about and that's why if
you see the pattern of where we sent Trump in
the last week, you know, we were very confident we're
going to squeak this thing out right. And I particularly
was very focused on piercing the blue wall in Wisconsin, Michigan,
and Pennsylvania. And so I think it's four o'clock in
(28:46):
the afternoon. I think they coming at four and five,
or maybe it's five o'clock and six. When the exit
polls first came, he came out guy sent them to
us from one of the broadcastings. We got him, and
Jared and I are sitting there and we're in distinct
we call it the crack in. It was the sixth
floor Trump Tower. And so Jared and I are off
there and we're feeling pretty good at what we're hearing
during the day, and then the exit polls come and
(29:09):
I think we were up in Iowa by a point,
and I think we were up in Ohio by a point.
Dead even are up by point. We were getting blown
out everywhere else, I mean blown out in Florida, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan.
Speaker 9 (29:25):
It was.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
It was not four hundred electoral votes, but it was
according to the those polls, those exit polls, this was
a landslide for Hillary Clinton. And so in looking at that,
Jared and I looked at each other and he goes,
what do you think? I go, God, I don't. I'm
not sure that these exit polls. I knew the one
on Carry was wrong, but I said, I don't feel it,
and I don't think that we've got an information to
(29:47):
day that shows us this bad. Jared goes, what do
you think? I go, I don't know, what do you think?
He goes, let me call Drudge. So he calls Drudge.
It puts him on the speaker. We're sitting on the balcony.
You know, it's freezing out there. This is a Trump tower,
and Drudge just goes, I mean, it was really great
because he treated us like, you know, small shorty. He goes, hey,
fuck that. He said, that's just corporate media. He says, bullshit.
(30:10):
He says, don't believe any of that. It just dropped it.
Don't even think about it, don't worry. Just do whatever
you guys got to do.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Just do it.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Don't that's just corporatist media. These guys are always wrong.
The exit pols are all bullshit. Is the psyche people out?
Speaker 9 (30:20):
Click out?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Turns out Matt Drudge was right despite all the punditry
leading up to election night that said Hillary Clinton would
not only win the election but win it decisively. Trump,
as we know, defeated her that night and went on
to become president. Matt Drudge's bet on this anti establishment
long shot candidate paid off. After Trump was elected, Drudge
(30:44):
visited the White House and dined with the President. He
held meetings with top White House officials, particularly Jared Kushner.
Beyond Twitter, Trump wasn't much of an Internet user, but
he knew that Drudge mattered. Here's Steve Bannon, who took
on a role within the White House as chief strategist,
but he respected.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Matt Drudge and knew that Metruge was a powerful guy
and a guy that you had to that you should,
you know, try to develop a relationship.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
With Sean Spicer, Trump's spokesperson in twenty seventeen, remembered seeing
Drudge at the White House.
Speaker 12 (31:16):
There was this sort of attempt to create a friendship
and a kinship between the two. Drudge came in a
couple times for dinner with the president. You know, was
very cordial with my interactions with him. He had come
in as a guest to Jared Kushner. Jared brought him
in to obviously build a relationship with the president. Trump
still valued the idea that Matt Drudge and his site
(31:39):
were a place that was powerful, especially among the center
right crowd.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
People can debate Drudge's role in helping to elect Trump.
Obviously it didn't hurt to have his support during the campaign.
Drudge's site defended Trump even in his worst moments, and
that mattered. And yet shortly into Trump's administration, Ude his
tone started to change. The fawning headlines became increasingly rare.
(32:06):
Something about Drudge's attitude toward Trump was shifting. Early in
twenty seventeen, Drudge made a surprise appearance on AM Talk
radio with right wing host Michael Savage. In what was
his last broadcast interview, Drudge started to show concern with
the administration he helped birth and wondered whether Trump himself
(32:27):
was to blame. Here's Drudge, and.
Speaker 11 (32:30):
We're trying to save this young Trump administration. I do
think there is a crisis on many fronts. Is some
of it of his own making.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It was the beginning of the end of the relationship
between Drudge and Trump. Soon, Drudge and his sight would
turn outright hostile against Trump.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But why.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
In the next episode of Finding Matt Drudge, I'll try
to answer the question that everyone is still trying to
figure out. Why exactly did Matt Drudge turn against Trump?
His decision had consequences, It costs Drudge dearly with his
conservative readers and fans. Join us as we travel to
Florida and back to DC in search of Matt Drudge.
(33:18):
I'm Chris Moody, and this is Finding Matt Drudge. Remember
(33:44):
to call us at three zero one two zero zero
two four one four if you have a great tip
or a great Matt Drudge story. We'll track down the
tips for the final episodes of the show.
Ever since Matt Drudge burst onto the national scene in
the nineteen nineties, he's remained a curious enigma. With his
trademark Fedora, his old fashioned tabloid news style, and refusal
to play by the so called rules of journalism, he
created an air of mystery around himself. But despite his
status as an outsider, he was still a man about town.
(00:22):
You'd see him at cocktail parties, He'd pop into green
rooms and appear on c Span. His appearances made news themselves.
There he was posing for photos on the red carpet
at the White House Correspondence dinner in Washington. His appearance
at Tammy Haddad's garden brunch made a huge splash as
she escorted him around the party, showing him off like
a prize. But by two thousand and eight, when his
(00:44):
sight was humming with twenty million hits per day, Drudge
stopped showing up in person. He ended his weekly radio
show the year before. Other than his website updates, Drudge
was simply starting to vanish. By the time he started
posting pro Donald Trump content in twenty sixteen, he was
almost impossible to reach, making it harder and harder to
(01:06):
understand where he was coming from, and people noticed. Gabriel Sherman,
a writer for The New Republic at the time, called
Drudge the underground man. Drudge, Sherman noted in two thousand
and nine, has almost completely disappeared from public life. When
Drudge showed his face at Hillary Clinton's concession speech in
(01:27):
two thousand and eight, his mere presence was a news
event in itself. After all, it was one of the
only times he'd been seen in public that year. There
was plenty of speculation floating around. According to Sherman, Rush
Limbaugh had advised him to go dark. People who had
been in touch with him over AOL, instant messenger and
email found that Drudge stopped responding to their messages. A
(01:50):
friend of Drudge asked why he was being such a recluse.
According to Sherman's reporting, Drudge said, I don't need to
go out there and talk. So why did Matt Drudge
just vanish? Well, let's dive in. I'm Chris Moody and
this is finding Matt Drudge. How could the most powerful
(02:13):
man in media basically just vanish from public life? From
JMW Productions and iHeartMedia. This is finding Matt Drudge. Brian Lamb,
the founder of c SPAN, used to have Matt Drudge
(02:34):
on his morning talk show all the time, and then
suddenly Drudge stopped responding to his messages. Lamb has no
idea why, but he does have theories if.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
He's doing this on purpose, being unavailable because he wants
to either get out of the spotlight, or he wants
to create an intrigue. He's done it. I'd love to
interview him again. Trust me, we'd asked and we get
no response. I would ask him the obvious. The obvious
(03:06):
questions to Matt Drudge is where are you? What's your
life like? Has the Drudge Report turned out to be
what you hoped it would be? And why did you
go underground? What led you to that? But people do,
as you know, Chris, they go off the stage and
there's a whole bunch of them. Megan, he you never
(03:26):
hear from again. I wish you did, but they all
just say I'm out a here, you know. And so
that may be the simplest answer.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's a question that baffles people to this day. Where
is Matt Drudge? Where did he disappear? To Felipe Rhinus
was the longtime aide to Hillary Clinton. We met in
a previous episode. He actually met Drudge in person at
a White House Correspondence weekend brunch in the early odds.
As a high profile Democratic operative, Rhinus knew firsthand all
(03:55):
about Drudge's power.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
The simplest answer is that he got sick of it.
And I think every one of us can identify. It
is not a healthy situation. It is not good for
the soul.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
There are people who have good jobs, but even that
probably takes a lot out of them, just in terms
of fighting and negativity. And you know, the speed of
things is really accelerated, so it's awesome that doesn't might
not like the pace I would imagine, because see it
(04:31):
was just done.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
But of course Matt Drudge wasn't done. His site continued
to churn out links, It did monster traffic even after
he stopped showing his face in public. People just expected
Drudge not to show his face. His absence from the
public stage simply became the norm. But that all changed
(04:53):
on March six, twenty twelve. One of Drudge's first employees
was an internet entrepreneur, editor, and conservative activist named Andrew Breitbart.
Breitbart ran the site for Drudge several hours a day
before breaking away to start his own website, Empire Breitbart News.
But in the middle of the Republican presidential primaries in
(05:14):
twenty twelve, Breitbart, only forty three years old, suddenly died
of heart failure. His premature death came as a shock
to his family, his friends, and devoted staff. On March sixth,
they gathered in Los Angeles to pay their final respects.
Breitbart's old boss, Matt Drudge, was slated to speak at
(05:35):
the service. Few people had seen him in years. Would
he really show up to such a public place. Steve Bannon,
who would go on to lead Breitbart's side after Andrew
Breitbart's death, was at the service when he caught sight
of Matt Drudge. Matt Drudge's appearance, Bannon recalled, was shocking.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
People had not seen Matt for years and were sitting
there at the service starts. It's right at the cemetery,
and you know, I'm sitting in like the second or
third row off to the side, to the right, and
all of a sudden, somebody comes and taps on the
shoulder and he had wrapped around sunglasses on, and I
kind of it didn't look like Matt Drudge, but I
(06:17):
kind of felt it might be Matt Drudge.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
What did he look like?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
He he looked like and Adonna's I mean, he was
like in amazing shape. Everybody told me. Because I hadn't
known him before, but I had watched him when he
had his show, and I'd seen some pictures of him.
He always looked like he was kind of a pudgy guy.
That wasn't Matt Drudge. Matt Rudge was fully ripped.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Despite his physique, Drudge was still wary about being in public.
He told Bannon that he didn't want to get up
and talk at the funeral.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
Matt tapped me on the shoulder, didn't make a big deal,
and Uh just whispered to me and says, hey, I
don't really feel that comfortable speaking. If you guys don't mind.
I said, hey, not a problem. You do what you want,
not an issue. And then Matt did not hold court afterwards.
Didn't like go around on Mad Drudge or something that
was off to the side.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Larry O'Connor was an editor at Breitbart's website at the
time who attended the funeral.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
He flew in that day and it was interesting because,
like we had recognized him and knew him, but he
was just sort of sitting by himself and sort of
keeping to himself. Before the service began, and I think
it was Larry Solov's mother who came over to me
and Meredith and said, guys, go over and talk to Matt.
No one's talking to Matt, and so we introduced ourselves
(07:32):
and talked to him that day.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Andrew Breitbart had died just days before. The staff were
planning a major redesign of their new site. Matt Drudge
asked Larry what they would do with the site now
that Breitbart was gone.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
He goes, well, what are you going to do with
the site now? And we said, well, we're we're of
course moving forward. We'll be launching in a few days
and everything. He goes, well, what are you going to
call it? And it was just weird as it's like, well,
of course, we're going to call it Breitbart News. And
he said, well, but how could you do that because
Andrew's not going to be running it anymore. And he
(08:06):
was like, well, we believe that this is still his
legacy and we want his name to go on and
we want people to always know Andrew Breitbart's name, even
if they didn't know Andrew Breitbart the man. And he said, Oh,
I could never do that, And we're like really, He says, oh, yes,
when I die, I just want Drudge to disappear. I
want the site to disappear. And he started did a
(08:26):
little thing with his hand like it would just dissolve
into the mist when Matt Drudge was no longer.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Do you know where Matt Drudge is? If you have
a great Matt Drudge story, they can shed insight into
the mysterious mogul and help us on our search. Call
us at three zero one two zero zero two four
one four and tell us about it. We may even
air your message in the final episodes of the show.
If you want us to credit you, please say so
and leave your name. Andrew Breitbart's funeral had been scheduled
(09:02):
on Super Tuesday, one of the most important days of
the twenty twelve Republican presidential primary. Drudge might have taken
time to attend the funeral, but he also had work
to do. Here's Larry O'Connor.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
Greg Guttfeld was hosting a big wake, a big party
to sort of celebrate the incredible life of Andrew, and
it was supposed to be fun and joyful, and because
that's Andrew was fun and joyful and said, you know,
at the end of the start and said, Mat, come
on with us. We'll drive you over there and everything.
And he goes, I can't. I got to go back
to the hotel room. And I were like, why, come on,
you got to come to the day. He said, it's
(09:35):
Super Tuesday, I gotta work. It's Matt Drudge and how
long has that site been up and running? And you'd
think he could get somebody on the day of Andrew
Breitbart's funeral to run the site on Super Tuesday, But
either he just didn't want to be around a lot
of people, or he was that dedicated to being on
top of the news and writing the site in his
(09:57):
voice that night, I don't know, but it was an
interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And before people knew it, Drudge was out the door.
Speaker 5 (10:05):
He came and shook a few hands, stood in the back,
you know, acknowledged a few people, I think, and then
I think it left immediately for the airport. And it
was like ten minutes of that. Didn't you know, He's
not a guy could come in and I'm Matt Druge.
He's not a guy who's going to hold court or
get a line and people signing autographs or take you know,
selfies or things like that. It just doesn't seem like
that's him.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Still, his mere presence made an impact. Here's Carrie Pickett,
a reporter who was there for them. Matt Drudge's presence
surprised him. When you were at the funeral talking to
all of Andrew's friends, did Drudge's presence come up in conversations, Oh.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
Sure, absolutely, They're like, Matt was here, Matt is here,
Like where is he? He's gone, oh okay, Like did
you see him? No?
Speaker 8 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (10:52):
It was almost like he sort of didn't want to
make the funeral about himself, but more than likely more
about it Andrew. He was sort of an elusive He
was sort of in and out in a flash.
Speaker 9 (11:06):
And that was it.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Drudge was gone, as far as I can gather reporting
this podcast. That was one of Drudge's last known big
public appearances, if you can even call it that. His
descent into extreme privacy continued into the twenty tens. In
twenty thirteen, Drudge sold his home in Miami Beach and
moved away from town to a secluded compound hideaway in
(11:30):
the far reaches of civilization near the Florida Everglades. During
that same time, readers of Drudge's site began to notice
a fascination with conspiracy theories. Drudge regularly started linking to
websites that trafficked infringe content. An investigation by the liberal
Center for American Progress in twenty twelve found that Drudge
(11:52):
had linked to websites like Alex Jones, Info Wars, and
WorldNet Daily, a site that constantly espoused the cop U r'
se theory that President Barack Obama wasn't born in the
United States. The report noted that Drudge had linked to
the sites nearly two hundred times, directing viewers to sites
where readers could explore content about how nine to eleven
(12:14):
was an inside job or crackpot ideas about how the
federal government was planning to round conservatives up into internment
camps run by FEMA. In December twenty twelve, a twenty
year old shooter murdered twenty six people at Sandy Hook
Elementary School. Twenty of the victims were children. It wouldn't
be long before Alex Jones would call the massacre a
(12:36):
false flag operation, a crusade against the victims' families that
would result in a lawsuit that would cost him a
billion dollars. Just before New Year's Eve in twenty twelve,
Drudge took to Twitter to publicly urge CNN to host
Alex Jones in prime time. This was before Jones had
(12:56):
made the comments about Sandy Hook, but his conspiracist views
were already well known, and only a few weeks later,
you know what happened. Piers Morgan welcomed Alex Jones on
his CNN show in January twenty thirteen, and it went
about exactly as you might imagine.
Speaker 10 (13:14):
Seventeen seventy six will commence again. If you try to
take our firearms, Pierce, don't try what your ancestors did before.
Why don't you come to America. I'll take you out shooting.
You can become an American and join the Republic.
Speaker 9 (13:28):
You finished.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Matt Drudge and Alex Jones clearly admired each other. Two
years later, while Alex Jones was filming his daily show
on Info Wars, Matt Drudge walked into his studio in Austin,
Texas and gave one of the longest on air interviews
he'd ever given, which also happened to be one of
his last. Alex Jones was shocked.
Speaker 8 (13:51):
It's amazing to have you here in Austin, Texas. You
certainly know how to make an entrance. I'm in a
seventy second break and I turn around and there's Matt
Drudge just boom. I tell you, I'm almost out an
art attack.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Drudge refused to show his face on air that day.
Jones only showed a silhouette of Drudge wearing that Fedora,
and viewers heard just his voice. The interview turned out
to be one of the deepest looks we have into
the mind of Drudge. During this interview, Drudge outlined much
about what he had learned in the decades in the
press and his thoughts on the state of technology, of media,
(14:28):
and politics. He congratulated Jones on building a media company
independent of corporate structures. He bemoaned how boring and flat
media organizations that he had once cherished had become. He
longed for the Internet to return to a place of dynamism, unpredictability,
and danger that it once was.
Speaker 11 (14:48):
The Enginet allows you to make your own dynamic, your
own universe, Drudge to me, when I look at it
right now, is a correction to this group think that
has I totally agree with that. There's no difference from
any of these websites between a slate or a salon.
What is the difference?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
There isn't any. Drudge celebrated and cherished his independence. His
disconnection from the world was what gave him power, and
he loved it. The insights from this interview gave us
a vital look into this reasoning for him going underground.
The media is trying to put us to sleep.
Speaker 11 (15:28):
And the reason I think the Drudge Report is interesting
every morning is it's not exactly the same as you
would see elsewhere, and that's because I'm not involved with
other people. I'm looking at the world through my eyes,
and that's what you're seeing. They've got no control over
the situation, none, no control, no control over me, sorry zero.
(15:49):
I live in a world that's free, colorful, vibrant, takes chances, bold,
stands up to power, and that's where I've made my success.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Drudge was proud of the fact that he had built
his empire outside the establishment media infrastructure. It was this
that bonded him with people like Alex Jones, who had
done the same. Then, after forty or so conspiratorial yet
captivating minutes with Alex Jones, Matt Drudge was gone again,
(16:18):
back behind the curtain of his website. The interview revealed
what excited Matt Drudge. He was obviously drawn to independent voices,
people who broke the mold, people who didn't care what
people thought, who did their own thing. And then along
came Donald Trump. Drudge's personal secrecy didn't slow down his
(16:41):
impact as the nation entered a new presidential race in
twenty sixteen, this time between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump,
Drudge arguably entered one of his most influential periods. With
the presidential campaign underway, Drudge's site became an increasingly supportive
place for Trump's candidate to see. Drudge consistently ran banner
(17:02):
stories celebrating Trump's rise. By the end of the Republican primary,
it was clear that Drudge was all in for Trump.
This wasn't an accident. The Trump campaign had spent years
making a concerted effort to woo him. Sam Nunberg was
an aide to Donald Trump for years before Trump announced
his presidential run in twenty fifteen. Number knew how crucial
(17:27):
Drudge's support would be helping Trump, and he worked to
curry favorable coverage.
Speaker 9 (17:33):
I am known for a while that Drudge had an
interest in Trump. I had heard from others who had
met with him. I don't want to break their confidences
that Drudge was saying, well, if Donald runs, I'm gonna
be with Donald. Wouldn't it be great for Trump to run?
Trump can wait because he's immedia fascination, same way Drudge was.
And Drudge was, you know, into the tabloids himself. Donald
(17:56):
is a tabloid. He's a living tabloid. Right. Drudge was
our New York Times, he was our Washington Post. It
was our newswire. It was the newswire for Republican primary politics.
If you wanted to control media in twenty sixteen, twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen, particularly in the Republican primary, you would do
(18:18):
it through Drudge. You needed something to break through, something
that our people were looking at. He has a hand
on the pulse of the Republican populace. If you got
a headline on Drudge, if you got a hyperlink, not
even a headline, if you've got a hyperlink on Drudge,
you would be able to be sure that you're going
(18:38):
to get the earned media. You're going to get three
points on conservative talk radio on TV right. If you
were getting hit hard by Drudge, you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Didn't have a chance.
Speaker 9 (18:51):
If you weren't getting any coverage by Drudge, I don't
think you had a chance unless you had millions and
millions of dollars to spend.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Nunberg started working Drudge early in twenty thirteen, when Trump
visited Iowa, Trump gave an interview to Matt Boyle of
Breitbart News with the hope that it would land on
the Drudge Report.
Speaker 9 (19:12):
I remember twenty thirteen, It's the first time I travel
with him, and I say, well, can we do an
interview mister Trump with Matt Boyle before you head to Iowa?
And does he? He goes, sure, of course, call him.
He gives an interview at how he's going to Iowa.
We land. When we land and we're talking, like you know,
less than a two hour flight. The article's up and
it's linked on the top of Drudge and I remember
(19:36):
saying to Donald, we're on Drudge. We're on Drudge. Drudge
I think really helped him get the coverage. Even that
weekend to be a legitimate candidate.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
What did Donald Trump think of Matt Drudge.
Speaker 9 (19:51):
He said that he and met Matt and mar Lago.
He always said, tell Mat, I say, hi said to me,
smart guy, smart guy. And he was interested in the
fact that esthetically the website wasn't that pleasing looking, and that,
you know, it was interesting to him. The power it
(20:11):
had when it wasn't a shining you know, wasn't shining gold, right.
I guess he was always interesting and more in terms
of the power that Matt had. He would ask me,
who were Matt's friends who you know? How do you
influence that more? Or how can we influence him? And
(20:32):
would ask me if he's getting the coverage from that
on certain articles, he would say, see if Matt'll put
this up, We'd send it and I'd say it was
when I worked for it was eight out of ten
times a week and go up on Drudge Report.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Eventually, Trump even started printing out screenshots of the Drudge
Report and would scribble handwritten letters sent directly to Drudge. Sam,
do you remember any instances and any strategies that you
guys had to try to influence the Drudge Report and
make it a part of your campaign strategy.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
Emails him directly. Multiple times. I would send emails to
Drudge updates. He would to respond. I would see see
Charlie Hurd on them, who I think was the editor
at that point I had heard. I would have notes.
Goddald would send attach them to the emails.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Wait, when you say notes, you mean handwritten not what
did the notes say?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Fucked Matt?
Speaker 9 (21:23):
Look at this? Or be a headline that Matt did
Matt and eat circle it. Thanks a lot, Thanks a lot.
I'm working hard here, something along those lines, you know
what I mean. I'm sure Drudge loved those right. Drudge
thought he was making a president too. You know, the
dirty little secret that we had was we meet the
media people that we needed, the influencers steel as if
(21:43):
they were part of this.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
In those early days of Trump's candidacy, you have to
remember that Trump was not the beloved figure among Republicans
that he grew to be later. People were skeptical of
him and some downright hostile. He needed all the help
he could get. Here's Steven who would go on to
become a Trump campaign advisor and later his White House
chief strategist.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Trump had very little support in conservative ink and very
little support in the Republican establishment. Fox was very anti
Trump at that time, you know, tried to take Trump
out in the first debate with Megan Kelly. You know,
Drudge was very populist, very nationalist. Most of conservative media
were you know, National Review, Weekly Standard, Daily Caller, They
(22:29):
were all, you know, very negative on Trump. Trudge was
not just positive on Trump, he's putting stuf up. It
is also positive on the populist nationalist movement very much so.
He's always been anti establishment. He saw Trump as a
very much an anti establishment figure. Barke, Bart and Drudge
got Trump through the through the primary.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Handwritten notes weren't the only things being sent to Drudge
from the Trump campaign. Not long after Trump announced his
presidential campaign in twenty fifteen, Roger Ayles, then the chairman
and CEO of Fox News, fed pulling data with Donald
Trump showing that he might just fare pretty well. Trump
called members of his staff to share the news. Corey Lewandowski,
(23:09):
Hope Hicks, and Sam Nunberg. Nunberg recalled the time that
Trump intentionally leaked the positive data directly to Drudge.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
He called Hope, Corey and me up to his office
because he had just dot with ails upter his announcement,
and they told him that Box News poll and he said,
do not anything leak at Roger will be pissed. And
then he called me back in and he gave me
the poll, and he gave me the numbers, and he
told me send this to Matt.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Do you think Drudge was responsible for making Trump?
Speaker 9 (23:38):
I give Drudge more credit than any other media, including
them billions of dollars of free media. Donald would always get.
I give him war credit. Donald's ultimately responsible for making
no right. Was he an important ingredient? One hundred percent?
He was.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Drudge started attending presidential debates. By the time the general
election rolled around, he had moved from the audience to
backstage watching the debates with Trump campaign operatives as though
he were a member of the campaign himself. In the
twenty sixteen debate between Trump and Hillary Clinton in Las Vegas,
Drudge joined campaign staffers Steve Bannon, David Bossi, and Jared
(24:15):
Kushner and others to watch the debate. Here's Bannon.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Matt showed up and actually sat in the room with
us and watched the h and watched the debate just
appeared out of nowhere.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
He sat with campaign staffers.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
They sat with Jared myself, Jared myself. Bossy just came in,
didn't say a word, Hey, Matt, good to see, had
the hat on, just sat down and he watched the debate.
I don't remember him ever saying a word. And then he, uh,
you know, I went to go get the president or
the you know, the candidate, and I think Matt left
shortly thereafter. I think Jared probably he probably gave Jared
(24:51):
a heads up, but he came in. It was only
four or five of us. I think it was Kelly Inn, myself, Jared.
I think Evoka might have been their date.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Bossy.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Matt came in, sat down, said hi, but I'm going
to real quick, quiet like nod because the thing has
already started. And then I left a few minutes before
the end to get right at the closing statements to
make sure we could get to pick up the candidate.
And I think Matt just slipped down left shortly thereafter.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's very on brand for him to come, you know,
quietly in and quickly out.
Speaker 5 (25:24):
That's him.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
The Trump campaign staff weren't the only ones to notice
that Drudge had slipped backstage. Hillary Clinton and her staff
saw him too. Felipe Rhyinus was walking into the secure
area of the debate hall, well passed secret service, and
there unmistakably was Matt Drudge wandering around without any credentials,
as if he owned the place. Here's Rhinus the motor gate.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
We left the hotel. Everyone piles out, always like a
party tent, but narrow. You know by definition, if you're
being led through there, it is probably for security reasons.
I would have thought it was strange if he was
ahead of us walking in, but it was also walking out.
(26:17):
I remember we got out of the motorcade and were
walking into the Chuot and Matt Driugro was coming out.
He was coming out with any credentials.
Speaker 9 (26:27):
It was almost as if.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Barack Obama was walking out. It was almost like he
had done what he went to do and then was living,
which I'm not sure what that could possibly be. He
was wearing the hat, so it's pretty easy to identify it.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Were you walking in with the candidate with Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yes, Clinton's staff were baffled.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Where he was coming out of was a highly controlled there.
It was where both candidates entered into the venue.
Speaker 9 (27:00):
It would have been.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Again, I mean, when once you become the nominee, which
both at that point Hillary and Donald Trump were, You've
got almost a presidential level security package. It's not a daggle.
There's no bomb truck at the back. It's for all
intents and purposes pretty similar. And it's not as if
(27:24):
you just show up and there's no pre position agents.
You have advance agents.
Speaker 9 (27:31):
So it was just strict.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
The number of people that must have let him through,
it's more than zero. And I don't know now again,
maybe because he was exiting people don't think. But it
was odd. It was odd. I just don't know how
he pulled it off. It was, without a doubt slopping.
It was, without a doubt, a violation of a lot
(27:55):
of things for some guy to just be walking at,
you know, the candidate. I did get a sense that
he can do.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
He was just I did it.
Speaker 9 (28:05):
But it was weird.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
But he's not Dan Rather. Yeah, I bet Dan Rather
would have been stopped after that.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Drudge's intimacy with the campaign only grew. By election night,
Trump's top brass were calling him asking for advice, and
Matt Drudge gave it. Here's Bannon we.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Felt pretty comfortable. Jared and I thought we had a
pre good handle on this about and that's why if
you see the pattern of where we sent Trump in
the last week, you know, we were very confident we're
going to squeak this thing out right. And I particularly
was very focused on piercing the blue wall in Wisconsin, Michigan,
and Pennsylvania. And so I think it's four o'clock in
(28:46):
the afternoon. I think they coming at four and five,
or maybe it's five o'clock and six. When the exit
polls first came, he came out guy sent them to
us from one of the broadcastings. We got him, and
Jared and I are sitting there and we're in distinct
we call it the crack in. It was the sixth
floor Trump Tower. And so Jared and I are off
there and we're feeling pretty good at what we're hearing
during the day, and then the exit polls come and
(29:09):
I think we were up in Iowa by a point,
and I think we were up in Ohio by a point.
Dead even are up by point. We were getting blown
out everywhere else, I mean blown out in Florida, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan.
Speaker 9 (29:25):
It was.
Speaker 5 (29:25):
It was not four hundred electoral votes, but it was
according to the those polls, those exit polls, this was
a landslide for Hillary Clinton. And so in looking at that,
Jared and I looked at each other and he goes,
what do you think? I go, God, I don't. I'm
not sure that these exit polls. I knew the one
on Carry was wrong, but I said, I don't feel it,
and I don't think that we've got an information to
(29:47):
day that shows us this bad. Jared goes, what do
you think? I go, I don't know, what do you think?
He goes, let me call Drudge. So he calls Drudge.
It puts him on the speaker. We're sitting on the balcony.
You know, it's freezing out there. This is a Trump tower,
and Drudge just goes, I mean, it was really great
because he treated us like, you know, small shorty. He goes, hey,
fuck that. He said, that's just corporate media. He says, bullshit.
(30:10):
He says, don't believe any of that. It just dropped it.
Don't even think about it, don't worry. Just do whatever
you guys got to do.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Just do it.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Don't that's just corporatist media. These guys are always wrong.
The exit pols are all bullshit. Is the psyche people out?
Speaker 9 (30:20):
Click out?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Turns out Matt Drudge was right despite all the punditry
leading up to election night that said Hillary Clinton would
not only win the election but win it decisively. Trump,
as we know, defeated her that night and went on
to become president. Matt Drudge's bet on this anti establishment
long shot candidate paid off. After Trump was elected, Drudge
(30:44):
visited the White House and dined with the President. He
held meetings with top White House officials, particularly Jared Kushner.
Beyond Twitter, Trump wasn't much of an Internet user, but
he knew that Drudge mattered. Here's Steve Bannon, who took
on a role within the White House as chief strategist,
but he respected.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
Matt Drudge and knew that Metruge was a powerful guy
and a guy that you had to that you should,
you know, try to develop a relationship.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
With Sean Spicer, Trump's spokesperson in twenty seventeen, remembered seeing
Drudge at the White House.
Speaker 12 (31:16):
There was this sort of attempt to create a friendship
and a kinship between the two. Drudge came in a
couple times for dinner with the president. You know, was
very cordial with my interactions with him. He had come
in as a guest to Jared Kushner. Jared brought him
in to obviously build a relationship with the president. Trump
still valued the idea that Matt Drudge and his site
(31:39):
were a place that was powerful, especially among the center
right crowd.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
People can debate Drudge's role in helping to elect Trump.
Obviously it didn't hurt to have his support during the campaign.
Drudge's site defended Trump even in his worst moments, and
that mattered. And yet shortly into Trump's administration, Ude his
tone started to change. The fawning headlines became increasingly rare.
(32:06):
Something about Drudge's attitude toward Trump was shifting. Early in
twenty seventeen, Drudge made a surprise appearance on AM Talk
radio with right wing host Michael Savage. In what was
his last broadcast interview, Drudge started to show concern with
the administration he helped birth and wondered whether Trump himself
(32:27):
was to blame. Here's Drudge, and.
Speaker 11 (32:30):
We're trying to save this young Trump administration. I do
think there is a crisis on many fronts. Is some
of it of his own making.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
It was the beginning of the end of the relationship
between Drudge and Trump. Soon, Drudge and his sight would
turn outright hostile against Trump.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
But why.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
In the next episode of Finding Matt Drudge, I'll try
to answer the question that everyone is still trying to
figure out. Why exactly did Matt Drudge turn against Trump?
His decision had consequences, It costs Drudge dearly with his
conservative readers and fans. Join us as we travel to
Florida and back to DC in search of Matt Drudge.
(33:18):
I'm Chris Moody, and this is Finding Matt Drudge. Remember
(33:44):
to call us at three zero one two zero zero
two four one four if you have a great tip
or a great Matt Drudge story. We'll track down the
tips for the final episodes of the show.
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