July 13, 2020 • 46 mins
We squat all the time and don't even think about it - it's a common movement in everyday life. There are a few divisive exercises out there that have a tendency to split even the experts. In fact, the studies can also muddy up the waters. As with most exercises, there is a right and wrong way to perform them, and it is important to make sure when you are approaching any exercise, that you are performing the movements the right way. In this episode of Fitness Disrupted, Tom gives you all the tips to be able to perform a successful squat to help you avoid unnecessary injury.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Fitness Disrupted, a production of I Heart Radio.
I am Tom Holland, and this is Fitness Disrupted. Let's
talk about squats. Are squats really bad for you? Do
you know squat? Are you a squatter? Let me start
(00:24):
by telling a quick story. Many years ago, I was
giving a lecture at the Marine Corps Marathon expo before
the race, and it was strength training for runners, one
of my many favorite topics to lecture about. One of
the reasons I talked about being injury free. I would
(00:46):
argue it's the strength training along with other things as well,
but great topic. Loved speaking about it and had the
whole power point presentation and I was with a bunch
of doctors. It was actually lee Um. There was just
a bunch of doctors who were presenting as well. I'm
not a doctor exercise physiologist. But when I came off
(01:08):
after giving my lecture, UH, doctor whom I knew of
actually practiced close to where I lived at the time,
had been doing so for decades. He was right at
the end of his career. I think he retired just
a couple of years later, and a well known doctor.
But he came up to me and said, Tom that
was That was a great lecture. And I said, thank you.
And he said, but you know what, you're wrong. You
(01:30):
shouldn't do squats. Squats are bad for you, and and
and you know, I said, okay, we will agree to disagree.
But that's what today shows about. End what's going to
surprise you. Of the four or so studies I'm going
to go into, they will contradict one another. This is
the perfect topic for the show. This is why there
(01:54):
is Fitness Disrupted. It's to look at the science, look
at the myths, and make sense of it because there's
both sides. There's both sides. And then, as I frequently discuss,
it's the then diagram, it's the three intersecting circles. Right.
We're gonna take the research, we're gonna take the anecdotal,
(02:17):
we're gonna take the common sense, and we're gonna take
where it connects. And we're gonna go, Okay, I see
what science says, I see what experience with clients and
myself has taught me. And then we're gonna go risk reward,
common sense. Pretty smart way to approach it. Unfortunately, many
people do not and totally disagree with that. Doctor, great guy,
(02:45):
helped a lot of people in other ways exercise science,
I would argue, not his forte. All right, quick break,
when we come back, our squats bad for you, and
we're gonna talk about two specific things. We're gonna talk
about squats, and they're gonna take it one step further
and talk about full squats. Should you go halfway? Should
(03:06):
you go all the way down? So great discussion all
about squats. When we come back, we'll be right back.
It's interesting how moments like that, being approached by a
(03:27):
doctor like that, especially this was a few years back,
so it was at the beginning of my career of lecturing,
and you know that's that could be a little daunting
when a a well known doctor who has just presented
on a sports medicine topic comes up and says you're
wrong again. I disagree wholeheartedly, and we will discuss why.
(03:50):
And here's one quick way to look at it. Okay,
how many people have bad knees quote unquote bad knees? Right?
How many people at cocktail parties come up to me
and say, Tom, I'd love to run, but I can't
because I have bad knees. Now, the bad knees aren't
for the vast majority of people I would say, over
(04:13):
whom I have this discussion with, it's not from running,
and it's not from doing squats at the gym. So
the myth about running being bad for your knees. If
you believe that, you gotta listen to the show I
did with the guy Dr Daniel Lieberman, Okay, debunked beyond
belief by science. Over and over, runners have a lower
(04:37):
it's an incidents of osteo arthritis than do non runners, Okay,
and squatting, those people are not complaining about bad knees
that they have developed over years of squatting. Okay. So
that doctor who was at this running you know, expo,
(04:58):
but telling people not to not to squat and let
me let me just start by saying, whenever the discussion
about squats comes up, I say, you are squatting all
day long, to get up to garden, to pick things up,
to pick up your children, to pick something up off
the floor, to get up and out of a chair,
the couch. All day long. You're squatting. So for anyone
(05:21):
in the profession to tell you shouldn't do it, that
doesn't make sense. Just at the outset, it doesn't make
sense to me. It never has, it never has. And
one line I like to use when it comes to squats,
and this takes me back to another moment when a
great moment for me. I was auditioning. Some of you
(05:41):
who are listening have done my Supreme nine d Day
nine day DVD program I was hired to host that.
They were doing a long very. They auditioned a lot
of people. It is a hard thing to host a
DVD series like that, so they're looking for a very,
as I said, a specific set of skills like Liam
(06:03):
Neeson takes a lot uh. And I went into the
audition and it was highly stressful, but I knew I
was gonna get it anyway. They said, okay, demonstrate an
exercise and queue us and just just go basically. And
I said, okay, let's talk about squats. Here's how you're
gonna do a squat. And I said, squats aren't bad
for you. Bad squats are bad for you. And the
(06:25):
guy Calposo, well known director of many fitness videos and
and just someone who was in the industry for for
a really long time, super highly regarded and scary, he said,
we're done. You got it. I'll never forget that. So
after that line, just delivering it and giving the proper
form and all that kind of stuff, And that's my philosophy.
(06:46):
Squats aren't bad for you. Improper form and as I
will talk about doing too much too soon, a common
topic of this show. You have to walk before you run,
you have to build a base of strength before you
go and lift heavier amounts of weight, and before you
(07:06):
do more advanced exercises. Those two things that I just
outlined are rarely, rarely done in fitness, and that's how
you get hurt. It's not the exercise itself that is
the problem. It's your approach to the exercise or the
person who is teaching it to you. Okay, you need
to do it progressively and with the right form. Okay,
(07:30):
So let's just get real quickly the the overview of
a squad. Why why do we care? Right? Squats are
uh done and have been done forever and are a
staple of most you know, fitness professionals, um repertoire because
of of several things. Uh. The body weight exercise something
(07:51):
you can do anywhere, anytime, and it can be modified
for the beginner all the way up to the advanced athlete. Okay,
and it is also a multi jewel movement involving large
muscle groups what's known as a compound exercise. So you
get a huge bang for your buck. You are working
a handful of muscles, a handful, you know, you're basically
(08:12):
working your entire lower body and your core, your lower back. Uh.
And depending on the type of squat you do uh
and how you do it uh, the muscle recruitment changes
as well. But you've got your quads, which are your thighs,
You've got your hamstrings, the back of your thighs, you've
got your glutes, your butt, okay, your calves, and again
(08:34):
your core and especially lower back. So you are getting
a lot. And when time is of the essence and
you want to get the most out of your workout,
you try to put in as many exercises as you
can that are compound exercises. You work many muscle groups.
You build a lot of muscle if if you do
(08:54):
it correctly, and that's your goal. And you're working three
different joints. You're working your ankles, your knee, end, your hips.
So this goes to what is thrown around as a
functional exercise. Now Over the years, I've I've come to
kind of parts and pull that term apart. I believe
all strength is functional. But back to what I started
(09:15):
by saying, we're squatting all day long. So for a
doctor to tell you you shouldn't get strong at squats,
that's a problem to me. For that reason again, that
so many muscle groups are involved. Three different joints are involved,
so we should be strengthening that. And the less you
(09:39):
use muscles, especially your lower back and you're the muscles
around your knee, your knees, the more pain you're gonna
experience when they get weaker and weaker and weaker. And
that is the snowball effect that so many of you
have and are experiencing. You have pain, you do less,
(10:00):
your pain increases because the muscles get weaker and weaker.
The contact, the rubbing, the the misalignment, the imbalances and
weaknesses get worse and worse, and that's why the pain increases. Okay,
we need our knees, we need our joints to be
(10:21):
as strong as possible. So why are people saying you
shouldn't do squats? Okay, I'm gonna give you the scientific
reading of it. Okay. Here's here's what the the researchers
and exercise scientists say. The concern for harmful forces at
your knee centers on what is known as peak patelo
(10:44):
femoral joint reaction force. Okay, you read the studies. That's
pp F j r F, peak patelo femoral joint reaction forces. Okay,
just forces at your knee as you're squatting down, right,
and that may lead to patelo femoral pain syndrome by
overloading your cartilage, which potentially leads to cartilage degeneration. We
(11:06):
don't want that. It happens over time, but we don't
want to increase that and subsequent subchondral bone degeneration. Okay,
So we don't want rubbing and we don't want the
cartilage to to degenerate. So the question is does that happen,
Does that happen, and when does it happen? And how
does it happen? Okay? And patello formoral pain syndrome, you go,
what is that? Well, it's one of the most common
(11:26):
disorders of the knees. Okay, accounting for roughly a third
of all knee injuries that are treated by doctors in
sports medicine facilities, rehab places. Uh. And it it affects
not just you know, the performers, the athletes, but quote
unquote regular people as well nee pain, bad knees, okay,
(11:49):
patelo femoral pain syndrome. So my experience has been, as
I just said, the less we squat, the less we
lunge another show, the more pain we experience. Now it's
gonna go to how I will finish the show talking
about the progression and the exercises and how and when
(12:10):
you should load your squats. But we need to squat.
We are doing it all day long and it is
super important and it is part of my success personally
and with my clients when you read, if you read
my book The micro Workout Plan, and the clients in
the book that I profile to give you the success
(12:33):
stories because that's where true. You know, inspiration and value
comes from these older people who had issues. One in particular,
who we went through every single running related issue and
we strengthened. He was fifty plus. We strengthened through squats
and lunges and step ups, and not only did he
(12:54):
go from not being able to run for a couple
of minutes he became a Boston Marathon qualify, running a
three forty something at like age late fifties, early sixties.
Crazy and that can be you. You'll have to run
that fast. You don't have to run it all. My
goal for you is to be pain free, pain free,
And if you can't squat and if you can't run,
(13:17):
I would say that is like the worst thing to
me that a doctor can say, well, don't run and
don't squat, Well, shouldn't we be figuring out why you
can't and shouldn't we be trying to figure out how
to fix it. I'm not saying just don't do it. Secondly,
just could go away. It's actually gonna get worse. So
we need to squat. So all those muscles involved such
(13:38):
a great exercise, glutes especially. We are sitting all day long,
and so many of the problems that come up and
it goes for hips and knees and lower back are
because we have weak glutes. And squatting is one of
the simplest and most effective ways to combat this sitting,
(14:00):
this inactivity. We need to do our cardio and we
need to do our strength. And for me, when I
get that you have been contributing to the media for
decades and sometimes I feel like a broken record. But
because exercise science for me is and always will be
the same thing. And when they ask for the best
quote unquote best exercises for your lower body, it's always
(14:26):
gonna include squats and lunges. And there are an infinite
number of ways two change those around for each specific
person and each fitness level and your goals. Okay, but
that's the that's the question. So the studies we're gonna
look at are the forces at the knees, and it
(14:47):
not only goes for squats, but we're gonna more specifically
look at going past parallel. So what that means is
do you go where your butt basically drops all the
way down and a full squad is you know, you're
touching your calves, your your your the backs of your
legs and your calves they are touching. I'm gonna do
(15:09):
one right now, and you've seen people in the gym.
I've seen people in the gym do that. So the
question is do you do basically do you stop at
just above parallel? Do you stop at ninety degrees of
knee bend essentially, or like some people do. Do you
go full squad? And here's where the confusion lies. And
(15:31):
I get it, American College of Sports Medicine. If you
look at all the different certifying bodies, what do we
talk about? What do they talk about? You should do
exercises through a full range of motion. And I was
at the gym this morning and I watched several people
do really improper form and one of them was they
weren't using a full range of motion. Person was doing
(15:55):
cable rows way too heavy and very limited range of motion.
And here's one other aside to doing strength moves with
full range of motion that helps with flexibility. People. When
you do strength training through a full range of motion,
it increases and helps with flexibility. And there are so
(16:15):
many people who do limited range of motion, and that's
not good. So this is one exercise where we may
be saying, and again we're gonna look at the signs shortly, Uh,
maybe you shouldn't. Maybe this is an exercise where you
don't want to go through a full range of motion,
especially and here's the caveat with heavyweight and especially when
(16:36):
you're a beginner, and those two things come into play,
all right, So, uh, what we're talking about is especially
in the rehabilitation setting, squats are generally done and executed
to a shallow depth, and they're doing this to try
to avoid the higher joint forces that's associated with the
(16:57):
increased knee flexion. And that is the patelo for moral pain.
It's just talking about. And so let's let's look at
the studies. Is that true? All right? You know what
final break and then when we come back, we're gonna
look at studies. It's ay, yes you should go past parallel,
No you shouldn't. And they're gonna bring it all together
and say here's the solution. Alright, final break. We'll be
(17:20):
right back. You know how you know your job is
exactly what you should be doing. I'm I get so
excited to do these shows. I really do, because as
I'm gonna give you these two these two studies actually
(17:41):
four studies to four going past parallel in two against.
And so this is this is why this is so
necessary a show like this, because there is and you
can there's so much confusion and there's both sides, and
based on your bias, you can pick your side. If
you're someone who does certain workouts with certain groups that
(18:02):
love to go you know, heavy and past parallel, and
then you're gonna grab that research and talk about that
and actually that's how I'm gonna end the show, and
this this will be a little powerful at least it
is for me. And then if you're someone who doesn't
believe that you should go past parallel and you don't
want to go super heavy with then you can grab
onto those studies. My goal with every single show and
(18:25):
all the research is to take those and then take
common sense and say, what are your goals and what's
your risk reward? And that's where you go to. But
what is my job and what was my job as
a personal trainer to get you the greatest results in
the shortest amount of time with the least likelihood of
(18:45):
injury the least likelihood of injury. And therein lies the rub.
People they're in lies the rub and doing things and
doing exercises in directly with improper form and excessive amounts
of weight. You don't get hurt right away, generally speaking,
(19:07):
and you generally don't get hurt in a month or
two months. It's progressive and it's chronic, and then it's
it's over to a certain degree. You don't want to
experience many of the issues that occur because you take
that risk. So we'll talk about that, all right, So
let's get right to it. Here's the confusion. Here are
(19:30):
the studies. Okay, uh, alright. So the study was in
the Journal of Orthopedics and Sports Physical Therapy two thousand two,
a little while back, but still a good one, and
the title Patello for mooral joint kinetics while squatting with
and without an external load. Okay, And this one says,
(19:53):
basically the takeaway is, yes, going past parallel can be
an issue. Uh. And they say previous biomechanical analyzes have
indicated that the increased uh, let's call it. And to
make it easier for you, it's the pp F j
r F. Okay, it's that's the forces at the knee
is coupled with increased deflection angles. Okay, and squats up
(20:14):
to nine degrees of deflection without an external load and
with a load of thirty of the subject's body weight. Uh.
PPF F j r F Again, that's the joint reaction
forces was found to increase linearly with peak external deflection
moments in untrained men. Untrained men, that's important. Okay, So
we're gonna talk about that. Uh. So this is saying, yes,
(20:37):
that as the deflection angles increase, the forces on the
knees increase, all right. And the objective of this study
was to quantify that the patelo formoral joint reaction forces
and stress while squatting with and without an external load
fifteen subjects. And again the conclusion was that, yes, it increased,
(21:00):
is as the joint stress increases as the deflection angle increases,
and that the addition of external resistance further increases the
patelo femoral joint stress. Okay, And that's what the people
against squatting at all. That's what the doctor was saying,
is that you shouldn't do it. Now. He didn't even
ask about healthy knees. So what they're just saying here is, yes,
(21:24):
the stress increases. Is that a problem though? Is that
a problem? Okay? And here's a study that totally contradicts it. Uh,
much smaller study, and I'm gonna give you the takeaway first.
So this one is basically saying no, it's not bad. Uh.
This one says in contrast, when comparing squads with reflection
angles of seventy degrees ninety degrees and even past parallel
(21:46):
dred degrees in trained women. That's important. They found no
differences in those joint reaction forces or reactive forces. Okay,
the stress I should say, reaction forces, yes, um, so
contradictory trained versus untrained. I think that's really important. And
(22:06):
as I'm gonna talk about at the very end, the
way these studies are designed, uh, the prior strength, the
type of squats, the amount of weightlifted. Uh, it all
comes into play. It will make sense shortly, I promise. Okay.
And this study was in Clinical Biomechanics two thousand one,
and it was titled patelo femoral joint kinetics during squatting
(22:28):
in collegiate women athletes. All right, so uh, they were
trying to characterize the biomechanics of the patelo femoral joint
during squatting. And this one counters the other one says
it's okay, but again train versus untrained. Both small studies,
but especially this one much smaller. And let's give you
two more. Okay, here's one that says, no, you shouldn't
(22:50):
go past parallel neat joint kinetics in relation to commonly
prescribed squat loads in depths and this is one of my,
you know, favorite journals. I'm biased, but when it comes
to strength training the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research,
July two thirteen, and they were looking at how load
in depth. Two things we just talked about affect the
forces about the knee and that's totally what we're talking
(23:13):
about here. How far down you go and how much
you're squatting, how does that affect your knees? And I
also want to throw in there your lower back. I
watched at the gym again this morning. Holy cow, a
guy doing dead lifts with a significant amount of weight
(23:35):
and horrific form. And I'll leave it at that, but
it goes to squats because not only I would say squats. Yes,
we're worried about the knees, but we also have to
be worried about lower back. Okay, you need to maintain
jumping ahead of myself a little bit here, but your
natural lor dotic curve. You need to keep the curve
(23:57):
in your lower back to a large and especially under
large loads. You can argue with me on that and
I'll bring it all together and tell you why Uh
I disagree? Okay, uh and so this study uh again
controversy about the safety and performance benefits of performing the
squad exercises to depths beyond ninety degrees of needflection. Uh.
(24:21):
And so this one found that the lowest values of
the forces on the knees were body weight squats with
the hands behind your head and barbell squats using of
your body weight. Okay, and the important findings suggests that
as beginners or individuals make initial progressions in load in depth,
(24:45):
caution should be expressed as those forces occur at greater
rates during these times, common sense people, common sense beginners
or individuals, especially in like a rehabilitation setting, caution should
be expressed. And as I started the show by saying
(25:05):
that caution is rarely expressed, Okay, and I just I
just gotta read a couple more lines from this study
because it really goes to what we're talking about here.
These results suggest that a squad progression should start with
unloaded above parallel squats and progress two deeper squats before
(25:27):
the addition of load. We're getting ahead. This is how
I'm gonna bring the whole show together. When I give
you the takeaway, squat progression should again proceed from above
parallel squats to deeper squats once the load has been added. Okay, progression, progression, progression.
How many times do we see people in gyms and
certain workout not to name the specifics, but they just
(25:49):
go to heavyweights, complex movements right away. They may start
with the bar and they start with maybe unloaded bar,
but they really quickly advance. And I watched a video
yesterday of a gym like this where everyone was doing
these type of lifts and as the as the camera
pan down the people, I just thought, is no one
(26:10):
changing the form of these people. It was frightening the
form that some of the people had under heavy loads
and with large uh ranges of motion. Okay, and here's
what interesting a final takeaway from this study. And I
found this really interesting. So that when they did the
(26:31):
study and they were doing the three different depths right
above parallel, parallel and below parallel for this study some
and they had a special um computer sensors on the
legs and the people were supposed to stop at those
three points. What they found was very important takeaway. People
didn't really know. So it's that body awareness, that kin
(26:51):
esthetic awareness. So when they were told to stop at
certain depths. They didn't always do it, and that's really
important when it comes to squad. See, this is something
that's not talked about enough and it is, yes, a
simple observation perhaps, but the the outcomes and the things
that can go wrong are enormous. So subjects only squatted
(27:15):
to a consistent depth for the below parallel squad easy, right,
you gotta okay, gotta go really low. I gotta touch
you know, my legs together essentially, uh to my calves,
back of my legs to my calves. That's important because
that has, as they say in this study, important safety
implications for the squad exercising. Considering that increased squat depth
requires reduced loads, Going below and intended depth may lead
(27:40):
to a failed repetition and potential increased risk of injury.
They say that one more time going below and intended
intended depth may lead to a failed repetition and a
potential increased risk of injury. When loads were increased to
one rep maximum, subjects squatted approximate five to ten degrees
(28:01):
less during the above parallel and parallel squats. And this
goes back to a memory I've had, I've I've talked
about it on other shows. But uh, back when I
was working at one of the gyms in New York
City and these two guys would come in and they
would take fift twenty minutes to wrap their knees and
put an insane amount of weight on the bar. And
(28:23):
it was this whole production. And then when they had
this and they were squatting side by side in the
power racks, and when they squatted together, they would I
mean you talk about grunt yell, and they would do
like an inch and a half of range of motion,
and I assume they think they were going much deeper.
(28:43):
It goes to the findings for this study, and people
would watch and go really like what there's what are
you doing? There's almost no range of motion whatsoever. But
as this study shows, maybe they didn't know. I assume
they thought they were going a lot farther down. Uh.
And so finally, based on these findings, very important the
(29:04):
professional designing a progression for a client should take into
account the large increase in kneeloading from an unloaded squat
to a load consisting of run one rep maximum as
forces increase at the greatest rate during these loads. So
again study that says got to be careful that yes,
the forces increase. Now I'm gonna finish with one final
(29:26):
study that says no. And here we are Sports Medicine
two thousand and the title Analysis of the Load on
the knee, joint and vertebral column with changes in squatting
depth and weight load. Uh. Basically, they say it has
been suggested that deep squads could cause an increased injury
(29:47):
risk of the lumbar spine and the knee joins. And
they say concerns about the degenerative changes of the tendo
for moral complex and the apparent higher risk for crando malcia,
osteo arthritis and osteochondritis in deep squats are unfounded. The
study says, no, doesn't doesn't You don't have to worry
(30:10):
about crowd amount. So this is all knee issues, right,
knee issues. But here's what they say. Here's what they say,
provided that technique is learned accurately, under expert supervision and
with progressive training loads, the deep squat present presents an
effective training exercise for protection against injuries and strengthening of
(30:34):
the lower extremity. I agree one hu with that, and
that's why I'm ending the show with this study as well,
and I'm going to read it again because there's a
lot in there. I was gonna say unpacking hate when
like news people say it's a lot to unpacked there,
there's a lot there. And they end by saying, contrary
to commonly voiced concern, deep squats do not contribute increased
(30:57):
risk of injury to passive tissues. But let me read
that first sentence one more time. Provided that I'm gonna
call this number one, technique has learned accurately vast majority
of the significant majority of the time, it's not happening.
Technique is weren't learned accurately. Number two under expert supervision. Uh.
(31:18):
It's like every home instructor now for all these different companies,
every single one of them says we have world class instructors. Really,
what what what does it take to become a world
class instructor? Where's that certification? World class instructor? Most of
those people have little if any actual training. Uh. And
(31:40):
and study in exercise science, I promise you. And then finally,
progressive training loads. So those are three crucial elements to
just squatting in general. I'm not gonna pull out the
deep squats, just squatting in general, technique experts, supervision, progressive
training loads and the SPIT supervision is not just to
(32:01):
teach the technique, but as I just talked about, the
studies that show that a lot of people don't even
know what their form is as they're doing the exercise itself. Okay,
and let me bring this all together, because you go, Tom,
you just gave us two studies that say yes, two
studies that say no, you shouldn't go past parallel. First
of all, I don't, I don't. And this is how
(32:23):
we're gonna bring it all together. But why the the
the crazy contradictory research. Well, this is a tough They're
all all studies are are difficult in you know, I
want to get into you know, how studies are done
and and all that kind of stuff. But uh, squatting
is challenging due to the wide range of their squatting styles.
(32:44):
There's the experienced level of the subjects. That's why I
brought up trained and untrained collegiate women, and not uh,
the amount of load, how you are using you know,
the weight and the different methods involved in these studies.
So there's a lot going on. Okay, how you squat,
the fitness level of the people, the bias of the
(33:04):
people who are holding the studies. Okay, there's a lot
of variables involved, but this is how we bring in
common sense. This is how we bring in common sense.
So for me over the years, I I don't squat
super heavy and I don't go past parallel. You know why,
(33:25):
because I found I don't have to. There's no gains
that I am missing personally as someone who wants to
be injury free, but also compete at a really high level,
especially back in the day and enduring sports and get
my vanity side too. Always gonna be honest, so I
can look better, I can feel better, and I can
(33:47):
perform better and live longer by squatting. I'm gonna squat.
I'm just not gonna go super heavy and I'm not
going to go past parallel. That's me because I can
strengthen my legs, I strengthen my glutes, I can uh
you know, work on my imbalances. I had pure formist syndrome.
There's one of the few issues I had over the years,
(34:08):
and I fixed it through lower body strengthening, not going
past parallel and not doing heavy squats. Now there's people
listening who love heavy squats and love to go past parallel.
That is your choice. And there's research, as I just
said that said it's not an issue in these studies,
and there's other ones that contradicted, but the ones that say, hey, yes,
(34:31):
the forces increase as the the angle increases, I'm gonna
take that into account. And this is how I approach
everything in fitness, cost benefit, cost benefit. And I'm gonna
give an example I think I've given in one other show.
And yes, this is just one, and yes, who knows
the causality, but I'm gonna bring it up because it
(34:54):
it resonated with me for a long time and continues to.
Many years ago, I was to train the Sun of
a man who was rower. They were rowers, uh, collegiate
rower the Sun, high level, really hardcore workout, not for
me uh. And I was brought in to do other things.
(35:16):
But he had he had a right I mean right
out of central casting, Russian trainer of this crew team.
And they did really heavy, really deep and I would say,
not great form squats and I said, listen, you know,
he asked me about it. I said, I don't. I
don't do those. I agree with those here studies, and
he went off. He said, you're totally wrong. I do them,
(35:37):
my son does them. I believe in them. He went
to those studies similar to the ones I just pulled out.
I go, I get it, I get it. I don't.
The risk reward h for me isn't there. And fast forward.
Maybe he was ten or fifteen years maybe even not
that much ten years. Maybe I saw him he could
(35:57):
barely walk. Now do I know it's from that? Of
course not. There's many things, but I'm not willing to
risk that. And most of you, I would say listening
to the show, are not powerlifters. And for those of
you who are, listen, use proper form and build up
(36:18):
your strength. And that's where we bring it all together.
As the studies say progression. If you want to be
a powerlifter, and listen dru Jen Ellison I had on
the show. Uh, she's getting back into powerlifting. So that's different.
Professional athletes. People are competing, there's there's the risk reward,
(36:41):
and they risk injury. And that's why so many other
things are involved, like performance enhancing drugs. People. Okay, but
I personally look at it this way, and so should
you what are your goals? What are your goals? Okay,
if your goals are to you know, loose weight, to
strengthen your body, to bulletproof your body, to work on
(37:04):
imbalances and weaknesses, you can stop at ninety degrees for squads.
That's my opinion looking at the research, my experience over
the years. If you're a power lifter, if you're going
for super heavy, if you love that, well, then you
just darn well better use great form, hopefully under supervision
with with someone else watching as well. That can always help.
(37:25):
Don't need it. You got mirrors too, and be careful
because when you go super heavy with any exercise, the
injury increase potential is enormous and I don't need that.
I don't want that. Okay, even though I do endurance
sports that's slow, steady, you know, it's not high you know,
(37:48):
intensity quick movements. Heavy weights, Um do you just run
a risk. So that is your choice, and that's why
I give you both sides. That's why I give you
both sides. And and God bless you. If you are
lifting heavyweights. I hope that you know fifty years from
now you're good and with proper form and and all
(38:09):
that kind of stuff. You know, hopefully you are, but
I don't. I don't need to run that risk myself.
That's my personal approach. And that's with everything. And you know,
I always talk about the one thing I'm most proud
about everything is being injury free. That's it, because once
we're not, everything changes. Okay, so you have to be smart.
You have to check your ego every now and again.
(38:32):
It's a whole another show. All right, So what is
good form? Let's bring this all together. Good form. Your
chest is up, your chest is facing forward. So most
people are many people with poor form. What happens is
the first movement they do is they drop right, So
there there chest drops. Your hips have to go back.
Your hips go back. You keep that Lord Dottic curve,
(38:53):
which it's just the natural curve. And you sit back
as if you're going back into a chair. As I'm
doing this, I stand when I do these shows. I'm
doing it. So hips go back, all right, you look forward,
you keep your heels on the ground, and you keep
your knees behind your toes. Now it's a whole another show.
(39:14):
Talk about people in India who squat past parallel needs,
go past their toes are fine, that's body weight to
whole another show. But that's my queueing. Okay. And one
thing I like to do back when I was teaching
the videos hosting those videos, I would go down into
a squat and try going down, and while you're going
down into a squat, lift your toes up and down.
(39:35):
You can't do that if your heels are up. So
that's a way to show that you are nice and balanced. Now,
if you're someone who has quote unquote bad knees and
you're just starting out, your rage of motion is going
to be very small and you're just gonna use your
body weight. Okay, you can put a chair behind you,
a couch, you can hold onto something. I used to
have clients hold onto something. Sometimes it was my hands
(39:58):
when that was appropriate, or you know, a chair, something stable,
And it's that progression. And that's what progression is about.
So when I was working with clients with knee issues
and and you know pain that needed to strengthen, we
started small and it was body weight, and then over
time we would increase the depth to get down to
(40:21):
ninety degrees. All right, a great test, here's the great
it's fun. Put a chair right, in front of your
knees and try to squat down without sending that chair
across the floor, all right. And another one is sit
in a chair and try to get up without using
your hands. We need to have that strength, and you
(40:43):
don't need to squat two pounds to get that strength,
all right, So small range of motion, body weight. Over time,
you're gonna go deeper and deeper and deeper, and go slowly.
I'm not a fan of the air squats. I want
you to control that movement, the entire range of motion
as many muscle fibers as you can. All right. Then,
(41:04):
and this is a long time after if you're just starting,
a long time for for those just starting out, you're
gonna build that strength. Then you're going to add weight,
and it can be dumbell is gonna be a kettle bell,
it can be a barbell. I see a lot of
people who hold dumbbells, though, and therefore immediately goes. So
you're holding those dumbbells at your side and your your
(41:28):
chest collapses a because it's it's awkward and be a
lot of times again you're using weight that's too heavy.
So I would rather and have clients hold I'd rather
you do a PLEI a type squad, hold one dumbbell
or hold one kettle bell. If you're going to add
external weight with something like that. You can also if
you say I want to use the dumbbells, hold them
(41:49):
up by your shoulders and increase the weight that way.
You can also wear a weight vest another way to
add some weight. And then as you get stronger, as
you build that base of strength, then you can go
to a back squad with a barbell across your back.
Now there are so many other squads, front squats, and
you know innumerable. This is squatting one oh one. But
(42:10):
build the base of strength through body weight and increasing
range of motion and decreasing the speed at which you
do them. It will go a really, really really long way.
I mean the majority of my exercises to stay healthy,
especially the lower body body weight push ups for upper planks, lunges, squats,
(42:37):
one legged versions of those, I don't add a lot
of weight almost ever, because I just slow it down
because I want to be strong. I don't need a
lot of weight to do that. That's not helping my
goal and it's increasing my chance of injury. All Right,
and try that try to do a squat down to
(43:00):
ninety degrees and pick up your toes. Alternate picking up
your toes as you go down, wiggle them up and down.
See if you can do that? All right, But that's
what you want to talk about and think about when
you are figuring out what type of squats you're gonna
do and how much weight you're gonna use. What are
your goals and if your goals are as I say
at the end of every show, to look better, feel better,
(43:20):
live longer. I don't have to do that with a
lot of weight. Doesn't have to be complicated. Got to
weigh the risk rewards. Okay, And this is a perfect
example of their two sides to it, and one side
may have a risk of injury. Why am I going there?
It doesn't help my goals? All right? So there you haven't.
(43:41):
I'm a big fan of squatting. I would be very
cautious about going past parallel, and I would be cautious
about using a large amount of weight, especially as we
get older. And that's not to say you can't listen.
I got you know friends who still squat heavy and
and at younger ages are squatting heavy. Again. I just
want to be healthy, and as we fatigue, technical failure occurs,
(44:06):
and technical failure causes injury. Muscular failure, technical failure. We
will talk more about that in a separate show, but
that is a really important thing to think about. As
soon as your form goes boom, you're done, and that
one extra one under heavy load can be one too many.
(44:29):
Perfect way to end it all, right, So the doctor
who said Tom, you shouldn't be telling people to squat,
I disagree. Be smart about it, do it for your
specific goals and you will be fine. Thank you for listening.
I am Tom Holland, exercise physiologists, certified sports nutritionists and
just a lover of everything fitness. If you could rate
(44:52):
the show, please do so, please please, I would greatly
appreciate that. And if you have already, thank you very much.
I do have a new book out if you're interested,
the Micro Workout Plan UH more information on how to
be the best you. And I really just want you
to know I come into all these topics with no
bias other than being healthy and giving you the best
(45:13):
information out there, based on the research, based on my experience,
and based on common sense. And I'm living proof of it.
My clients are living proof of it. And many people
who now have listened to the show long enough and
are contacted me and telling me the incredible success they've
had from following the advice of this show. And I
love that. And if you have questions, comments, success stories,
(45:34):
if you're angry with me, reach out. Tom h Fit
is my Twitter and my Instagram Tom h Fit. You
can learn more about me and contact me through the
website Fitness disrupted dot com. And let me say it
one final time, there are three things we control, how
much we move, what we put into our mouths every day,
(45:56):
and our state of mind, our attitude. And that is awesome.
I'm Tom holland this is Fitness Disrupted. Believe in yourself.
Fitness Disrupted is a production of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(46:19):
favorite shows.
Welcome to Fitness Disrupted, a production of I Heart Radio.
I am Tom Holland, and this is Fitness Disrupted. Let's
talk about squats. Are squats really bad for you? Do
you know squat? Are you a squatter? Let me start
(00:24):
by telling a quick story. Many years ago, I was
giving a lecture at the Marine Corps Marathon expo before
the race, and it was strength training for runners, one
of my many favorite topics to lecture about. One of
the reasons I talked about being injury free. I would
(00:46):
argue it's the strength training along with other things as well,
but great topic. Loved speaking about it and had the
whole power point presentation and I was with a bunch
of doctors. It was actually lee Um. There was just
a bunch of doctors who were presenting as well. I'm
not a doctor exercise physiologist. But when I came off
(01:08):
after giving my lecture, UH, doctor whom I knew of
actually practiced close to where I lived at the time,
had been doing so for decades. He was right at
the end of his career. I think he retired just
a couple of years later, and a well known doctor.
But he came up to me and said, Tom that
was That was a great lecture. And I said, thank you.
And he said, but you know what, you're wrong. You
(01:30):
shouldn't do squats. Squats are bad for you, and and
and you know, I said, okay, we will agree to disagree.
But that's what today shows about. End what's going to
surprise you. Of the four or so studies I'm going
to go into, they will contradict one another. This is
the perfect topic for the show. This is why there
(01:54):
is Fitness Disrupted. It's to look at the science, look
at the myths, and make sense of it because there's
both sides. There's both sides. And then, as I frequently discuss,
it's the then diagram, it's the three intersecting circles. Right.
We're gonna take the research, we're gonna take the anecdotal,
(02:17):
we're gonna take the common sense, and we're gonna take
where it connects. And we're gonna go, Okay, I see
what science says, I see what experience with clients and
myself has taught me. And then we're gonna go risk reward,
common sense. Pretty smart way to approach it. Unfortunately, many
people do not and totally disagree with that. Doctor, great guy,
(02:45):
helped a lot of people in other ways exercise science,
I would argue, not his forte. All right, quick break,
when we come back, our squats bad for you, and
we're gonna talk about two specific things. We're gonna talk
about squats, and they're gonna take it one step further
and talk about full squats. Should you go halfway? Should
(03:06):
you go all the way down? So great discussion all
about squats. When we come back, we'll be right back.
It's interesting how moments like that, being approached by a
(03:27):
doctor like that, especially this was a few years back,
so it was at the beginning of my career of lecturing,
and you know that's that could be a little daunting
when a a well known doctor who has just presented
on a sports medicine topic comes up and says you're
wrong again. I disagree wholeheartedly, and we will discuss why.
(03:50):
And here's one quick way to look at it. Okay,
how many people have bad knees quote unquote bad knees? Right?
How many people at cocktail parties come up to me
and say, Tom, I'd love to run, but I can't
because I have bad knees. Now, the bad knees aren't
for the vast majority of people I would say, over
(04:13):
whom I have this discussion with, it's not from running,
and it's not from doing squats at the gym. So
the myth about running being bad for your knees. If
you believe that, you gotta listen to the show I
did with the guy Dr Daniel Lieberman, Okay, debunked beyond
belief by science. Over and over, runners have a lower
(04:37):
it's an incidents of osteo arthritis than do non runners, Okay,
and squatting, those people are not complaining about bad knees
that they have developed over years of squatting. Okay. So
that doctor who was at this running you know, expo,
(04:58):
but telling people not to not to squat and let
me let me just start by saying, whenever the discussion
about squats comes up, I say, you are squatting all
day long, to get up to garden, to pick things up,
to pick up your children, to pick something up off
the floor, to get up and out of a chair,
the couch. All day long. You're squatting. So for anyone
(05:21):
in the profession to tell you shouldn't do it, that
doesn't make sense. Just at the outset, it doesn't make
sense to me. It never has, it never has. And
one line I like to use when it comes to squats,
and this takes me back to another moment when a
great moment for me. I was auditioning. Some of you
(05:41):
who are listening have done my Supreme nine d Day
nine day DVD program I was hired to host that.
They were doing a long very. They auditioned a lot
of people. It is a hard thing to host a
DVD series like that, so they're looking for a very,
as I said, a specific set of skills like Liam
(06:03):
Neeson takes a lot uh. And I went into the
audition and it was highly stressful, but I knew I
was gonna get it anyway. They said, okay, demonstrate an
exercise and queue us and just just go basically. And
I said, okay, let's talk about squats. Here's how you're
gonna do a squat. And I said, squats aren't bad
for you. Bad squats are bad for you. And the
(06:25):
guy Calposo, well known director of many fitness videos and
and just someone who was in the industry for for
a really long time, super highly regarded and scary, he said,
we're done. You got it. I'll never forget that. So
after that line, just delivering it and giving the proper
form and all that kind of stuff, And that's my philosophy.
(06:46):
Squats aren't bad for you. Improper form and as I
will talk about doing too much too soon, a common
topic of this show. You have to walk before you run,
you have to build a base of strength before you
go and lift heavier amounts of weight, and before you
(07:06):
do more advanced exercises. Those two things that I just
outlined are rarely, rarely done in fitness, and that's how
you get hurt. It's not the exercise itself that is
the problem. It's your approach to the exercise or the
person who is teaching it to you. Okay, you need
to do it progressively and with the right form. Okay,
(07:30):
So let's just get real quickly the the overview of
a squad. Why why do we care? Right? Squats are
uh done and have been done forever and are a
staple of most you know, fitness professionals, um repertoire because
of of several things. Uh. The body weight exercise something
(07:51):
you can do anywhere, anytime, and it can be modified
for the beginner all the way up to the advanced athlete. Okay,
and it is also a multi jewel movement involving large
muscle groups what's known as a compound exercise. So you
get a huge bang for your buck. You are working
a handful of muscles, a handful, you know, you're basically
(08:12):
working your entire lower body and your core, your lower back. Uh.
And depending on the type of squat you do uh
and how you do it uh, the muscle recruitment changes
as well. But you've got your quads, which are your thighs,
You've got your hamstrings, the back of your thighs, you've
got your glutes, your butt, okay, your calves, and again
(08:34):
your core and especially lower back. So you are getting
a lot. And when time is of the essence and
you want to get the most out of your workout,
you try to put in as many exercises as you
can that are compound exercises. You work many muscle groups.
You build a lot of muscle if if you do
(08:54):
it correctly, and that's your goal. And you're working three
different joints. You're working your ankles, your knee, end, your hips.
So this goes to what is thrown around as a
functional exercise. Now Over the years, I've I've come to
kind of parts and pull that term apart. I believe
all strength is functional. But back to what I started
(09:15):
by saying, we're squatting all day long. So for a
doctor to tell you you shouldn't get strong at squats,
that's a problem to me. For that reason again, that
so many muscle groups are involved. Three different joints are involved,
so we should be strengthening that. And the less you
(09:39):
use muscles, especially your lower back and you're the muscles
around your knee, your knees, the more pain you're gonna
experience when they get weaker and weaker and weaker. And
that is the snowball effect that so many of you
have and are experiencing. You have pain, you do less,
(10:00):
your pain increases because the muscles get weaker and weaker.
The contact, the rubbing, the the misalignment, the imbalances and
weaknesses get worse and worse, and that's why the pain increases. Okay,
we need our knees, we need our joints to be
(10:21):
as strong as possible. So why are people saying you
shouldn't do squats? Okay, I'm gonna give you the scientific
reading of it. Okay. Here's here's what the the researchers
and exercise scientists say. The concern for harmful forces at
your knee centers on what is known as peak patelo
(10:44):
femoral joint reaction force. Okay, you read the studies. That's
pp F j r F, peak patelo femoral joint reaction forces. Okay,
just forces at your knee as you're squatting down, right,
and that may lead to patelo femoral pain syndrome by
overloading your cartilage, which potentially leads to cartilage degeneration. We
(11:06):
don't want that. It happens over time, but we don't
want to increase that and subsequent subchondral bone degeneration. Okay,
So we don't want rubbing and we don't want the
cartilage to to degenerate. So the question is does that happen,
Does that happen, and when does it happen? And how
does it happen? Okay? And patello formoral pain syndrome, you go,
what is that? Well, it's one of the most common
(11:26):
disorders of the knees. Okay, accounting for roughly a third
of all knee injuries that are treated by doctors in
sports medicine facilities, rehab places. Uh. And it it affects
not just you know, the performers, the athletes, but quote
unquote regular people as well nee pain, bad knees, okay,
(11:49):
patelo femoral pain syndrome. So my experience has been, as
I just said, the less we squat, the less we
lunge another show, the more pain we experience. Now it's
gonna go to how I will finish the show talking
about the progression and the exercises and how and when
(12:10):
you should load your squats. But we need to squat.
We are doing it all day long and it is
super important and it is part of my success personally
and with my clients when you read, if you read
my book The micro Workout Plan, and the clients in
the book that I profile to give you the success
(12:33):
stories because that's where true. You know, inspiration and value
comes from these older people who had issues. One in particular,
who we went through every single running related issue and
we strengthened. He was fifty plus. We strengthened through squats
and lunges and step ups, and not only did he
(12:54):
go from not being able to run for a couple
of minutes he became a Boston Marathon qualify, running a
three forty something at like age late fifties, early sixties.
Crazy and that can be you. You'll have to run
that fast. You don't have to run it all. My
goal for you is to be pain free, pain free,
And if you can't squat and if you can't run,
(13:17):
I would say that is like the worst thing to
me that a doctor can say, well, don't run and
don't squat, Well, shouldn't we be figuring out why you
can't and shouldn't we be trying to figure out how
to fix it. I'm not saying just don't do it. Secondly,
just could go away. It's actually gonna get worse. So
we need to squat. So all those muscles involved such
(13:38):
a great exercise, glutes especially. We are sitting all day long,
and so many of the problems that come up and
it goes for hips and knees and lower back are
because we have weak glutes. And squatting is one of
the simplest and most effective ways to combat this sitting,
(14:00):
this inactivity. We need to do our cardio and we
need to do our strength. And for me, when I
get that you have been contributing to the media for
decades and sometimes I feel like a broken record. But
because exercise science for me is and always will be
the same thing. And when they ask for the best
quote unquote best exercises for your lower body, it's always
(14:26):
gonna include squats and lunges. And there are an infinite
number of ways two change those around for each specific
person and each fitness level and your goals. Okay, but
that's the that's the question. So the studies we're gonna
look at are the forces at the knees, and it
(14:47):
not only goes for squats, but we're gonna more specifically
look at going past parallel. So what that means is
do you go where your butt basically drops all the
way down and a full squad is you know, you're
touching your calves, your your your the backs of your
legs and your calves they are touching. I'm gonna do
(15:09):
one right now, and you've seen people in the gym.
I've seen people in the gym do that. So the
question is do you do basically do you stop at
just above parallel? Do you stop at ninety degrees of
knee bend essentially, or like some people do. Do you
go full squad? And here's where the confusion lies. And
(15:31):
I get it, American College of Sports Medicine. If you
look at all the different certifying bodies, what do we
talk about? What do they talk about? You should do
exercises through a full range of motion. And I was
at the gym this morning and I watched several people
do really improper form and one of them was they
weren't using a full range of motion. Person was doing
(15:55):
cable rows way too heavy and very limited range of motion.
And here's one other aside to doing strength moves with
full range of motion that helps with flexibility. People. When
you do strength training through a full range of motion,
it increases and helps with flexibility. And there are so
(16:15):
many people who do limited range of motion, and that's
not good. So this is one exercise where we may
be saying, and again we're gonna look at the signs shortly, Uh,
maybe you shouldn't. Maybe this is an exercise where you
don't want to go through a full range of motion,
especially and here's the caveat with heavyweight and especially when
(16:36):
you're a beginner, and those two things come into play,
all right, So, uh, what we're talking about is especially
in the rehabilitation setting, squats are generally done and executed
to a shallow depth, and they're doing this to try
to avoid the higher joint forces that's associated with the
(16:57):
increased knee flexion. And that is the patelo for moral pain.
It's just talking about. And so let's let's look at
the studies. Is that true? All right? You know what
final break and then when we come back, we're gonna
look at studies. It's ay, yes you should go past parallel,
No you shouldn't. And they're gonna bring it all together
and say here's the solution. Alright, final break. We'll be
(17:20):
right back. You know how you know your job is
exactly what you should be doing. I'm I get so
excited to do these shows. I really do, because as
I'm gonna give you these two these two studies actually
(17:41):
four studies to four going past parallel in two against.
And so this is this is why this is so
necessary a show like this, because there is and you
can there's so much confusion and there's both sides, and
based on your bias, you can pick your side. If
you're someone who does certain workouts with certain groups that
(18:02):
love to go you know, heavy and past parallel, and
then you're gonna grab that research and talk about that
and actually that's how I'm gonna end the show, and
this this will be a little powerful at least it
is for me. And then if you're someone who doesn't
believe that you should go past parallel and you don't
want to go super heavy with then you can grab
onto those studies. My goal with every single show and
(18:25):
all the research is to take those and then take
common sense and say, what are your goals and what's
your risk reward? And that's where you go to. But
what is my job and what was my job as
a personal trainer to get you the greatest results in
the shortest amount of time with the least likelihood of
(18:45):
injury the least likelihood of injury. And therein lies the rub.
People they're in lies the rub and doing things and
doing exercises in directly with improper form and excessive amounts
of weight. You don't get hurt right away, generally speaking,
(19:07):
and you generally don't get hurt in a month or
two months. It's progressive and it's chronic, and then it's
it's over to a certain degree. You don't want to
experience many of the issues that occur because you take
that risk. So we'll talk about that, all right, So
let's get right to it. Here's the confusion. Here are
(19:30):
the studies. Okay, uh, alright. So the study was in
the Journal of Orthopedics and Sports Physical Therapy two thousand two,
a little while back, but still a good one, and
the title Patello for mooral joint kinetics while squatting with
and without an external load. Okay, And this one says,
(19:53):
basically the takeaway is, yes, going past parallel can be
an issue. Uh. And they say previous biomechanical analyzes have
indicated that the increased uh, let's call it. And to
make it easier for you, it's the pp F j
r F. Okay, it's that's the forces at the knee
is coupled with increased deflection angles. Okay, and squats up
(20:14):
to nine degrees of deflection without an external load and
with a load of thirty of the subject's body weight. Uh.
PPF F j r F Again, that's the joint reaction
forces was found to increase linearly with peak external deflection
moments in untrained men. Untrained men, that's important. Okay, So
we're gonna talk about that. Uh. So this is saying, yes,
(20:37):
that as the deflection angles increase, the forces on the
knees increase, all right. And the objective of this study
was to quantify that the patelo formoral joint reaction forces
and stress while squatting with and without an external load
fifteen subjects. And again the conclusion was that, yes, it increased,
(21:00):
is as the joint stress increases as the deflection angle increases,
and that the addition of external resistance further increases the
patelo femoral joint stress. Okay, And that's what the people
against squatting at all. That's what the doctor was saying,
is that you shouldn't do it. Now. He didn't even
ask about healthy knees. So what they're just saying here is, yes,
(21:24):
the stress increases. Is that a problem though? Is that
a problem? Okay? And here's a study that totally contradicts it. Uh,
much smaller study, and I'm gonna give you the takeaway first.
So this one is basically saying no, it's not bad. Uh.
This one says in contrast, when comparing squads with reflection
angles of seventy degrees ninety degrees and even past parallel
(21:46):
dred degrees in trained women. That's important. They found no
differences in those joint reaction forces or reactive forces. Okay,
the stress I should say, reaction forces, yes, um, so
contradictory trained versus untrained. I think that's really important. And
(22:06):
as I'm gonna talk about at the very end, the
way these studies are designed, uh, the prior strength, the
type of squats, the amount of weightlifted. Uh, it all
comes into play. It will make sense shortly, I promise. Okay.
And this study was in Clinical Biomechanics two thousand one,
and it was titled patelo femoral joint kinetics during squatting
(22:28):
in collegiate women athletes. All right, so uh, they were
trying to characterize the biomechanics of the patelo femoral joint
during squatting. And this one counters the other one says
it's okay, but again train versus untrained. Both small studies,
but especially this one much smaller. And let's give you
two more. Okay, here's one that says, no, you shouldn't
(22:50):
go past parallel neat joint kinetics in relation to commonly
prescribed squat loads in depths and this is one of my,
you know, favorite journals. I'm biased, but when it comes
to strength training the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research,
July two thirteen, and they were looking at how load
in depth. Two things we just talked about affect the
forces about the knee and that's totally what we're talking
(23:13):
about here. How far down you go and how much
you're squatting, how does that affect your knees? And I
also want to throw in there your lower back. I
watched at the gym again this morning. Holy cow, a
guy doing dead lifts with a significant amount of weight
(23:35):
and horrific form. And I'll leave it at that, but
it goes to squats because not only I would say squats. Yes,
we're worried about the knees, but we also have to
be worried about lower back. Okay, you need to maintain
jumping ahead of myself a little bit here, but your
natural lor dotic curve. You need to keep the curve
(23:57):
in your lower back to a large and especially under
large loads. You can argue with me on that and
I'll bring it all together and tell you why Uh
I disagree? Okay, uh and so this study uh again
controversy about the safety and performance benefits of performing the
squad exercises to depths beyond ninety degrees of needflection. Uh.
(24:21):
And so this one found that the lowest values of
the forces on the knees were body weight squats with
the hands behind your head and barbell squats using of
your body weight. Okay, and the important findings suggests that
as beginners or individuals make initial progressions in load in depth,
(24:45):
caution should be expressed as those forces occur at greater
rates during these times, common sense people, common sense beginners
or individuals, especially in like a rehabilitation setting, caution should
be expressed. And as I started the show by saying
(25:05):
that caution is rarely expressed, Okay, and I just I
just gotta read a couple more lines from this study
because it really goes to what we're talking about here.
These results suggest that a squad progression should start with
unloaded above parallel squats and progress two deeper squats before
(25:27):
the addition of load. We're getting ahead. This is how
I'm gonna bring the whole show together. When I give
you the takeaway, squat progression should again proceed from above
parallel squats to deeper squats once the load has been added. Okay, progression, progression, progression.
How many times do we see people in gyms and
certain workout not to name the specifics, but they just
(25:49):
go to heavyweights, complex movements right away. They may start
with the bar and they start with maybe unloaded bar,
but they really quickly advance. And I watched a video
yesterday of a gym like this where everyone was doing
these type of lifts and as the as the camera
pan down the people, I just thought, is no one
(26:10):
changing the form of these people. It was frightening the
form that some of the people had under heavy loads
and with large uh ranges of motion. Okay, and here's
what interesting a final takeaway from this study. And I
found this really interesting. So that when they did the
(26:31):
study and they were doing the three different depths right
above parallel, parallel and below parallel for this study some
and they had a special um computer sensors on the
legs and the people were supposed to stop at those
three points. What they found was very important takeaway. People
didn't really know. So it's that body awareness, that kin
(26:51):
esthetic awareness. So when they were told to stop at
certain depths. They didn't always do it, and that's really
important when it comes to squad. See, this is something
that's not talked about enough and it is, yes, a
simple observation perhaps, but the the outcomes and the things
that can go wrong are enormous. So subjects only squatted
(27:15):
to a consistent depth for the below parallel squad easy, right,
you gotta okay, gotta go really low. I gotta touch
you know, my legs together essentially, uh to my calves,
back of my legs to my calves. That's important because
that has, as they say in this study, important safety
implications for the squad exercising. Considering that increased squat depth
requires reduced loads, Going below and intended depth may lead
(27:40):
to a failed repetition and potential increased risk of injury.
They say that one more time going below and intended
intended depth may lead to a failed repetition and a
potential increased risk of injury. When loads were increased to
one rep maximum, subjects squatted approximate five to ten degrees
(28:01):
less during the above parallel and parallel squats. And this
goes back to a memory I've had, I've I've talked
about it on other shows. But uh, back when I
was working at one of the gyms in New York
City and these two guys would come in and they
would take fift twenty minutes to wrap their knees and
put an insane amount of weight on the bar. And
(28:23):
it was this whole production. And then when they had
this and they were squatting side by side in the
power racks, and when they squatted together, they would I
mean you talk about grunt yell, and they would do
like an inch and a half of range of motion,
and I assume they think they were going much deeper.
(28:43):
It goes to the findings for this study, and people
would watch and go really like what there's what are
you doing? There's almost no range of motion whatsoever. But
as this study shows, maybe they didn't know. I assume
they thought they were going a lot farther down. Uh.
And so finally, based on these findings, very important the
(29:04):
professional designing a progression for a client should take into
account the large increase in kneeloading from an unloaded squat
to a load consisting of run one rep maximum as
forces increase at the greatest rate during these loads. So
again study that says got to be careful that yes,
the forces increase. Now I'm gonna finish with one final
(29:26):
study that says no. And here we are Sports Medicine
two thousand and the title Analysis of the Load on
the knee, joint and vertebral column with changes in squatting
depth and weight load. Uh. Basically, they say it has
been suggested that deep squads could cause an increased injury
(29:47):
risk of the lumbar spine and the knee joins. And
they say concerns about the degenerative changes of the tendo
for moral complex and the apparent higher risk for crando malcia,
osteo arthritis and osteochondritis in deep squats are unfounded. The
study says, no, doesn't doesn't You don't have to worry
(30:10):
about crowd amount. So this is all knee issues, right,
knee issues. But here's what they say. Here's what they say,
provided that technique is learned accurately, under expert supervision and
with progressive training loads, the deep squat present presents an
effective training exercise for protection against injuries and strengthening of
(30:34):
the lower extremity. I agree one hu with that, and
that's why I'm ending the show with this study as well,
and I'm going to read it again because there's a
lot in there. I was gonna say unpacking hate when
like news people say it's a lot to unpacked there,
there's a lot there. And they end by saying, contrary
to commonly voiced concern, deep squats do not contribute increased
(30:57):
risk of injury to passive tissues. But let me read
that first sentence one more time. Provided that I'm gonna
call this number one, technique has learned accurately vast majority
of the significant majority of the time, it's not happening.
Technique is weren't learned accurately. Number two under expert supervision. Uh.
(31:18):
It's like every home instructor now for all these different companies,
every single one of them says we have world class instructors. Really,
what what what does it take to become a world
class instructor? Where's that certification? World class instructor? Most of
those people have little if any actual training. Uh. And
(31:40):
and study in exercise science, I promise you. And then finally,
progressive training loads. So those are three crucial elements to
just squatting in general. I'm not gonna pull out the
deep squats, just squatting in general, technique experts, supervision, progressive
training loads and the SPIT supervision is not just to
(32:01):
teach the technique, but as I just talked about, the
studies that show that a lot of people don't even
know what their form is as they're doing the exercise itself. Okay,
and let me bring this all together, because you go, Tom,
you just gave us two studies that say yes, two
studies that say no, you shouldn't go past parallel. First
of all, I don't, I don't. And this is how
(32:23):
we're gonna bring it all together. But why the the
the crazy contradictory research. Well, this is a tough They're
all all studies are are difficult in you know, I
want to get into you know, how studies are done
and and all that kind of stuff. But uh, squatting
is challenging due to the wide range of their squatting styles.
(32:44):
There's the experienced level of the subjects. That's why I
brought up trained and untrained collegiate women, and not uh,
the amount of load, how you are using you know,
the weight and the different methods involved in these studies.
So there's a lot going on. Okay, how you squat,
the fitness level of the people, the bias of the
(33:04):
people who are holding the studies. Okay, there's a lot
of variables involved, but this is how we bring in
common sense. This is how we bring in common sense.
So for me over the years, I I don't squat
super heavy and I don't go past parallel. You know why,
(33:25):
because I found I don't have to. There's no gains
that I am missing personally as someone who wants to
be injury free, but also compete at a really high level,
especially back in the day and enduring sports and get
my vanity side too. Always gonna be honest, so I
can look better, I can feel better, and I can
(33:47):
perform better and live longer by squatting. I'm gonna squat.
I'm just not gonna go super heavy and I'm not
going to go past parallel. That's me because I can
strengthen my legs, I strengthen my glutes, I can uh
you know, work on my imbalances. I had pure formist syndrome.
There's one of the few issues I had over the years,
(34:08):
and I fixed it through lower body strengthening, not going
past parallel and not doing heavy squats. Now there's people
listening who love heavy squats and love to go past parallel.
That is your choice. And there's research, as I just
said that said it's not an issue in these studies,
and there's other ones that contradicted, but the ones that say, hey, yes,
(34:31):
the forces increase as the the angle increases, I'm gonna
take that into account. And this is how I approach
everything in fitness, cost benefit, cost benefit. And I'm gonna
give an example I think I've given in one other show.
And yes, this is just one, and yes, who knows
the causality, but I'm gonna bring it up because it
(34:54):
it resonated with me for a long time and continues to.
Many years ago, I was to train the Sun of
a man who was rower. They were rowers, uh, collegiate
rower the Sun, high level, really hardcore workout, not for
me uh. And I was brought in to do other things.
(35:16):
But he had he had a right I mean right
out of central casting, Russian trainer of this crew team.
And they did really heavy, really deep and I would say,
not great form squats and I said, listen, you know,
he asked me about it. I said, I don't. I
don't do those. I agree with those here studies, and
he went off. He said, you're totally wrong. I do them,
(35:37):
my son does them. I believe in them. He went
to those studies similar to the ones I just pulled out.
I go, I get it, I get it. I don't.
The risk reward h for me isn't there. And fast forward.
Maybe he was ten or fifteen years maybe even not
that much ten years. Maybe I saw him he could
(35:57):
barely walk. Now do I know it's from that? Of
course not. There's many things, but I'm not willing to
risk that. And most of you, I would say listening
to the show, are not powerlifters. And for those of
you who are, listen, use proper form and build up
(36:18):
your strength. And that's where we bring it all together.
As the studies say progression. If you want to be
a powerlifter, and listen dru Jen Ellison I had on
the show. Uh, she's getting back into powerlifting. So that's different.
Professional athletes. People are competing, there's there's the risk reward,
(36:41):
and they risk injury. And that's why so many other
things are involved, like performance enhancing drugs. People. Okay, but
I personally look at it this way, and so should
you what are your goals? What are your goals? Okay,
if your goals are to you know, loose weight, to
strengthen your body, to bulletproof your body, to work on
(37:04):
imbalances and weaknesses, you can stop at ninety degrees for squads.
That's my opinion looking at the research, my experience over
the years. If you're a power lifter, if you're going
for super heavy, if you love that, well, then you
just darn well better use great form, hopefully under supervision
with with someone else watching as well. That can always help.
(37:25):
Don't need it. You got mirrors too, and be careful
because when you go super heavy with any exercise, the
injury increase potential is enormous and I don't need that.
I don't want that. Okay, even though I do endurance
sports that's slow, steady, you know, it's not high you know,
(37:48):
intensity quick movements. Heavy weights, Um do you just run
a risk. So that is your choice, and that's why
I give you both sides. That's why I give you
both sides. And and God bless you. If you are
lifting heavyweights. I hope that you know fifty years from
now you're good and with proper form and and all
(38:09):
that kind of stuff. You know, hopefully you are, but
I don't. I don't need to run that risk myself.
That's my personal approach. And that's with everything. And you know,
I always talk about the one thing I'm most proud
about everything is being injury free. That's it, because once
we're not, everything changes. Okay, so you have to be smart.
You have to check your ego every now and again.
(38:32):
It's a whole another show. All right, So what is
good form? Let's bring this all together. Good form. Your
chest is up, your chest is facing forward. So most
people are many people with poor form. What happens is
the first movement they do is they drop right, So
there there chest drops. Your hips have to go back.
Your hips go back. You keep that Lord Dottic curve,
(38:53):
which it's just the natural curve. And you sit back
as if you're going back into a chair. As I'm
doing this, I stand when I do these shows. I'm
doing it. So hips go back, all right, you look forward,
you keep your heels on the ground, and you keep
your knees behind your toes. Now it's a whole another show.
(39:14):
Talk about people in India who squat past parallel needs,
go past their toes are fine, that's body weight to
whole another show. But that's my queueing. Okay. And one
thing I like to do back when I was teaching
the videos hosting those videos, I would go down into
a squat and try going down, and while you're going
down into a squat, lift your toes up and down.
(39:35):
You can't do that if your heels are up. So
that's a way to show that you are nice and balanced. Now,
if you're someone who has quote unquote bad knees and
you're just starting out, your rage of motion is going
to be very small and you're just gonna use your
body weight. Okay, you can put a chair behind you,
a couch, you can hold onto something. I used to
have clients hold onto something. Sometimes it was my hands
(39:58):
when that was appropriate, or you know, a chair, something stable,
And it's that progression. And that's what progression is about.
So when I was working with clients with knee issues
and and you know pain that needed to strengthen, we
started small and it was body weight, and then over
time we would increase the depth to get down to
(40:21):
ninety degrees. All right, a great test, here's the great
it's fun. Put a chair right, in front of your
knees and try to squat down without sending that chair
across the floor, all right. And another one is sit
in a chair and try to get up without using
your hands. We need to have that strength, and you
(40:43):
don't need to squat two pounds to get that strength,
all right, So small range of motion, body weight. Over time,
you're gonna go deeper and deeper and deeper, and go slowly.
I'm not a fan of the air squats. I want
you to control that movement, the entire range of motion
as many muscle fibers as you can. All right. Then,
(41:04):
and this is a long time after if you're just starting,
a long time for for those just starting out, you're
gonna build that strength. Then you're going to add weight,
and it can be dumbell is gonna be a kettle bell,
it can be a barbell. I see a lot of
people who hold dumbbells, though, and therefore immediately goes. So
you're holding those dumbbells at your side and your your
(41:28):
chest collapses a because it's it's awkward and be a
lot of times again you're using weight that's too heavy.
So I would rather and have clients hold I'd rather
you do a PLEI a type squad, hold one dumbbell
or hold one kettle bell. If you're going to add
external weight with something like that. You can also if
you say I want to use the dumbbells, hold them
(41:49):
up by your shoulders and increase the weight that way.
You can also wear a weight vest another way to
add some weight. And then as you get stronger, as
you build that base of strength, then you can go
to a back squad with a barbell across your back.
Now there are so many other squads, front squats, and
you know innumerable. This is squatting one oh one. But
(42:10):
build the base of strength through body weight and increasing
range of motion and decreasing the speed at which you
do them. It will go a really, really really long way.
I mean the majority of my exercises to stay healthy,
especially the lower body body weight push ups for upper planks, lunges, squats,
(42:37):
one legged versions of those, I don't add a lot
of weight almost ever, because I just slow it down
because I want to be strong. I don't need a
lot of weight to do that. That's not helping my
goal and it's increasing my chance of injury. All Right,
and try that try to do a squat down to
(43:00):
ninety degrees and pick up your toes. Alternate picking up
your toes as you go down, wiggle them up and down.
See if you can do that? All right, But that's
what you want to talk about and think about when
you are figuring out what type of squats you're gonna
do and how much weight you're gonna use. What are
your goals and if your goals are as I say
at the end of every show, to look better, feel better,
(43:20):
live longer. I don't have to do that with a
lot of weight. Doesn't have to be complicated. Got to
weigh the risk rewards. Okay, And this is a perfect
example of their two sides to it, and one side
may have a risk of injury. Why am I going there?
It doesn't help my goals? All right? So there you haven't.
(43:41):
I'm a big fan of squatting. I would be very
cautious about going past parallel, and I would be cautious
about using a large amount of weight, especially as we
get older. And that's not to say you can't listen.
I got you know friends who still squat heavy and
and at younger ages are squatting heavy. Again. I just
want to be healthy, and as we fatigue, technical failure occurs,
(44:06):
and technical failure causes injury. Muscular failure, technical failure. We
will talk more about that in a separate show, but
that is a really important thing to think about. As
soon as your form goes boom, you're done, and that
one extra one under heavy load can be one too many.
(44:29):
Perfect way to end it all, right, So the doctor
who said Tom, you shouldn't be telling people to squat,
I disagree. Be smart about it, do it for your
specific goals and you will be fine. Thank you for listening.
I am Tom Holland, exercise physiologists, certified sports nutritionists and
just a lover of everything fitness. If you could rate
(44:52):
the show, please do so, please please, I would greatly
appreciate that. And if you have already, thank you very much.
I do have a new book out if you're interested,
the Micro Workout Plan UH more information on how to
be the best you. And I really just want you
to know I come into all these topics with no
bias other than being healthy and giving you the best
(45:13):
information out there, based on the research, based on my experience,
and based on common sense. And I'm living proof of it.
My clients are living proof of it. And many people
who now have listened to the show long enough and
are contacted me and telling me the incredible success they've
had from following the advice of this show. And I
love that. And if you have questions, comments, success stories,
(45:34):
if you're angry with me, reach out. Tom h Fit
is my Twitter and my Instagram Tom h Fit. You
can learn more about me and contact me through the
website Fitness disrupted dot com. And let me say it
one final time, there are three things we control, how
much we move, what we put into our mouths every day,
(45:56):
and our state of mind, our attitude. And that is awesome.
I'm Tom holland this is Fitness Disrupted. Believe in yourself.
Fitness Disrupted is a production of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(46:19):
favorite shows.
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