April 24, 2021 • 38 mins
The workplace is slowly gaining steam as the pandemic is seemingly getting more under control. However, as more people find work, women are again facing difficult decisions on whether to focus on finding a job or caring for their family. We’ll take a look at some of the solutions that could help turn that around.
And speaking of turning around, our next guest is a firm believer that people should. Many women find themselves being defined by the mistakes from their past and our guest says the path to really follow is to evolve. To break up with your fears and revolutionize your life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Follow the Profit is a production of Ging Rich three
sixty and I Heart Radio. The workplace is slowly gaining
steam as the pandemic is seemingly getting more under control, hopefully,
and as more people find work, women again are facing
difficult decisions on whether to focus on finding a job
or caring for their family. And we'll take a look
(00:21):
at some of the solutions that could help turn that around. Plus,
speaking of turning around, our next guest is a firm
believer that people should Many women find themselves defined by
their mistakes from their past, and our guests says the
path to really follow is to evolve, to break up
with your fears and revolutionize your life. I'm David Grosso,
(00:41):
and this is Following the Profit. You're looking to get
rich quick, Well, this isn't the podcast for you. When
you listen to Follow the Profit, We're going to deconstruct
what's going on in the world around us economically, politically,
and socially so that you can use your own money
(01:01):
to help you. And when it comes to the workplace,
women have been fighting for every gain in that arena.
They have to fight really hard over things like equal pay, discrimination,
opportunity in general, maternity leave, other family issues, and of
course progress was made, but when COVID hit, it brought
(01:23):
women back several steps. So the pandemic, as you probably remember,
hit its peak in April, and many people of many
backgrounds lost their jobs, but women saw the biggest hit
at men at but if you hone in on a
certain group, women of color, that number one as high
(01:47):
as almost twenty So the employment hurdles that women faced
during the pandemic didn't stop there. It turns out that
many of the industries that employ a large amount of women,
such as education and healthcare, they routinely saw furloughs and
mandated shutdowns. So if women were able to hold onto
their job, they then had to face other tough decisions
(02:09):
like childcare, elder care, and probably the biggest one homeschooling.
In Massachusetts is a state that has one of the
highest number of women in the workforce, and they saw
those numbers dropped during the pandemic. Many experts called this
period the she session, so women working during COVID saw
a spike and not being able to get proper time
(02:30):
off to care for themselves or loved ones, whether they
were infected or in quarantine. And really these decisions were
often brutal. Do I keep a job or do I
care for my loved ones? And it was decisions like
that that scaled back a lot of the progress that
women had seen in the workplace, and some states are
currently looking at ways to fix the problem, whether it
(02:51):
be easier access to childcare, retraining for new jobs, or
funding for emergency paid leave. Paid leave has all always
been something that women have been fighting for and specifically
a lot of studies show that women being out of
the workplace severely inhibits their career, especially when it comes
to child's rearing. Additionally, other studies show that somehow, some way,
(03:15):
the way women operate, they tend to ask for raises less.
So we're gonna break that down with my guests for
a moment here. I want you to place yourself in
the garden of Eden. Specifically, put your place in the
position of Eve. We all know the story. You're told
by your creator that you can have anything in the
(03:37):
garden except the fruit from this one tree. Well, we
all know how the story ends. Eve was tempted and voila,
she ate from the tree, and then she offered up
that apple or whatever fruit variety existed in that tale.
She offered it to Adam and he ate from the tree,
and then the fall of mankind happened. So our next
(04:00):
guests says, there's a lot to be learned from this story,
essentially that one cannot focus on who they were, but
instead pursue what they can become and the way this
tale is told, especially in the Judeo Christian tradition which
I was raised. And of course a lot of focus
is placed on Eve and her past failure, but perhaps
(04:21):
a major lesson for women is to move away from
that path and spend their energy trying to evolve. Women
have the strength to break away from their fears and
instead of place a priority on revolutionizing their lives, and
her next guests will explain that mindset and more. She
is Sarah Jakes Roberts, daughter of Pastor T. D. Jake's.
In her early twenties, she found herself dealing with low
(04:43):
self esteem, toxic relationships, depression, and other insecurities and at
one point a decision had to be made, settle for
who she was or evolved. Today, she's over in sunny California.
She's a wife, mom, businesswoman, and spiritual warrior, and she
joins us, Now, how you doing, Sarah, I'm doing great.
(05:03):
Thank you for having me so. Adam and Eve is
one of the oldest stories that we can think of
that was told to us as children. How did you
channel this story, which of course us know, and use
that to send a message to women. Well, I think
to your point, when we look at how women have
been represented throughout culture, whether it is that you will pay,
(05:24):
that they're looking for or just fighting for their space
in the workplace, I really believe that the woman's perception
goes back to what happened in the garden, and that
perception of the woman was obviously diminished when Eve ate
from this fruit. Because I was like most people when
I thought about Adam and Eve, I was like, Eve
messed it up for us all she is not my friend.
There is no way we can ever forgive Eve for
(05:45):
ruining humanity. But when I looked back at it, I
saw that when we look at that story that we
have used to vilify, even to be honest, so many
other women. What I learned is one the original intention
for male and female was to have dominion. It was
to be fruitful and to multiply it was to subdue.
There was never this hierarchy. There was always equality from
(06:05):
that original intention. And so as I began studying what
I realized because about not eating from the fruit, God
says that if you eat from this fruit, you will
surely die. But Eve lives on after that. What dies
in Eve? I think her courage, I think her right
to feel like she belongs in the space that she's in,
advocating for her stuff. I think those are the things
that died in that moment. And so Woman evolved for
(06:27):
me is about rescuing Eve. But any other woman who
feels like her courage, her faith, her ability to stand
up for herself is beginning to shrivel and die to
show her that there's life after forbidden fruit. So some
of the nastiest forms of discrimination I've seen in my
life have been against women, which is odd because we
all have mothers, right, There's no possible way for someone
(06:50):
to be walking this earth without a mother. Why do
you think that's become so normalized? And do we have
a double standard the way we view our mother Visa Vie,
the way we view other women. Perhaps I'm speaking of
course of men. Sure you know, my husband says that
all the time. He says, women have been the most
oppressed people group throughout history, and I really do feel
that it goes back to this moment in the garden.
(07:11):
I think from that moment forward that it felt like
women couldn't be trusted, and so women had to have
their plans and their lives kind of premeditated by men
who didn't understand what it was like to be women.
And so I think that there's a fragility maybe that
we perceive women with. And yet I have met some
incredibly strong women, like my mother, like so many women
who we've seen main history, and um, I think the
(07:34):
goal is to get it to see that our strength
is not an anomaly, that this is a part of
our fullness and our identity, and so it needs to
be highlighted more and we need to be empowered to
put it on display. Well, what I like is that
you're touching on an issue. And one of the things
about our culture right now is that when we are
of a group that is, you know, let's say, viewed
(07:55):
as less powerful, instead of celebrating victimhood, you're celebrating victory.
Can you tell me more about that? Absolutely, because, like you,
most people feel like that is where Eve's story in
the Bible, and she eats from that fruit, she ruins
it for us all, and then we look for the
woman who comes after that. And yet when I studied,
I saw that that's not really where her story ended.
(08:17):
That in that moment that God comes down and he
talks to the serpent and he tells the serpent, there's
gonna be war between you and the woman, and you're
gonna bruise her heel. But at the end of the day,
the seed that she produces is going to bruise your head.
And so what I see from Eve after that moment
is her being intentional about manifesting the next thing that
is supposed to happen in her life. Sometimes we get
(08:39):
stuck when we feel like we've been victimized, whether it's
by our own decisions or the choices of others, and
we don't see that we have the ability to manifest
the next if we're willing to do the hard work
to dig in our wounds to discover the wisdom that's
connected to them. So you grew up in the church.
Obviously your dad is T. D. Jake's Mega church pastor.
(08:59):
I grew up in a big church as well. Can
you tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, you know,
it's crazy whenever I hear people say megachurch, I think
there's such a misnomer with that, because the truth is,
I was just seeing my father walk out what he
felt was his purpose and what he was called to do,
and people just kept coming, and so we had to
create a space that was big enough for the people
(09:20):
who kept coming. And as we continue to invite people
into our church family, there were all different types of
family environments that were created within our church community. And
you know, I had so many experiences that played out
in front of those family members. My highs and my loads,
my struggles, my team, pregnancy, my divorce. All of these
things happened within the context of that community. And some
(09:42):
days it was easy, other days it was difficult. But
to my personal families credit, they were amazing and steadfast
through it all. We're gonna take a quick break here,
be right back. So a lot of times the churches
give it and take it away, right Sarah. In a
(10:05):
time of need, they help. But you know, it's a
community of humans. A lot of times you face judgment
for certain decisions that you've made. Can you tell me
a little bit about that. I think one of the
prime examples is when I got pregnant at thirteen and
I had my child at fourteen, and there were some
people who wanted me to get up and apologize in
front of the entire church, and that was really challenging
(10:25):
because you know, a lot of the times I was
playing with their children, so I knew what their kids
were doing, and yet they were holding me to this standard.
But I will also say that when members of the
press came out to try and get a story, or
when I actually had my son, there were also people
who you could tell were like lovingly holding me and
they're embraced even from afar and kind of making me
(10:46):
see that I wasn't in it by myself. So there
is a mix of all of it happening at the
same place, and I'm grateful that I didn't feel completely isolated,
even though my shame tried to make me believe that
there was no one who was for me in that moment. Obviously,
when you're the child of someone who is powerful or
influential or whatnot, you're judged by a different standard, aren't you. Definitely.
(11:08):
But I've always told people like if a dentist child
has a cavity, they don't want to take the dentist
license away. Right. We know that part of humanity means
like we're going to be out here on a journey,
and yet in church, if something happens, they want everything dismantled.
And so I'm hoping that people will become more compassionate
with that, but I know that that's the reality for
(11:30):
a lot of people. So tell me a little bit
about what made you evolve so your team Pregnan see
that the story of Eve didn't end. When the tale ended,
it looks like your story continues. Sarah, tell us about
your story. When I first got pregnant, I was trying
so hard to not be the girl who got pregnant,
whatever judgment that is. That was in my mind about
(11:50):
what it means to be pregnant as a as a teenager,
I wanted to run as far away from that as possible.
I wanted to go to college. I wanted to do X,
Y and Z. I had this dream for my life,
and every time I tried to do that it felt
like I was failing. I had this one course in
college I couldn't complete, dropped out of school because I
knew I couldn't get into business school, and I just
(12:10):
kept meeting failure after failure after failure. And it wasn't
until I decided to stop trying to be the girl
who got pregnant and except that I am the girl
who got pregnant. That is a part of my story
and it's not a part of my story that I
just want to put in the closet and act like
it's not there. And I think that that struggled to
embrace your truth is where I was. But my story
(12:31):
began to shift and change. What I said, this is
who I am, this is what I've gone through. Now
what now? What can I do with what I have left?
And it was that humility and that beautiful brokenness that
allowed me to start connecting with other women who wanted
that as well, and from that this Woman Evolved movement
kind of blossomed into what it is today. What lessons
(12:53):
does women involved have for men? Because we always do
this thing right, When we're advocating for a certain group,
it's perceived as not advocating for another. I have to
tell you that because my husband is like my number
one supporter of Woman Evolved and he is very much
so a man, right, But I think that there is
something about us as women also come into a place
where my evolving doesn't mean that I want men to
(13:16):
dissolve that even if we go back to that story
when God blessed male and female, he created them to
have dominion in the world together. And so for me,
woman evolved is an opportunity for men to even understand
the women in their lives better. If you've got nieces
or daughters, or sisters or a mother to take a
moment and be able to see life through her perspective.
(13:38):
Maybe we think certain things were hard, but don't necessarily
recognize the true damage or the true issues that could
have sprung up for her when experiencing different things in life.
And so I think it's an intimate view and to
what it means to be a woman in this day
and age, and it makes you better allies as we
continue to fight for equality. Yeah, so let's talk about
equality because this shows about money we follow the pro
(14:00):
I think one of the scariest things about living in
marginalized communities or being a you know, pregnantine or you know,
being an unemployed woman, man, black, white, Asian whatever it
is is the economic insecurity, Can we talk a little
bit about that? Yeah? Absolutely, And as a woman of color,
and especially someone who is a person of faith, you know,
(14:21):
our number one objective is to make sure, of course
we're dealing with the spiritual issues, but how can we
support people who are experiencing economic insecurity. The moment that
the pandemic hit, women evolved, knew that there were going
to be mothers and women who were having to make
some tough decisions, and so we immediately begin flooding our
communities with as many resources as possible, financial, emotional, mental,
(14:45):
because I don't think what we really understand is it's
not just the economic insecurity, it's generations of economic insecurity.
There is a mentality of oppression that begins to permeate
our communities when that happens, and we don't even think
that there is a way to or a path towards entrepreneurship,
a way to climb the ladder. And so that mental
(15:06):
connection to it, I think is also something that needs
to be highlighted because there is opportunity after whatever we've
gone through, but being clear enough to see it is difficult. Yeah,
So that's really interesting the entrepreneurial mindset, because I feel
like I had that because I'm the son of an
immigrant my mother. But beyond that, we were also part
(15:27):
of the nondenominational movement growing up, and I don't think
people understand the the interface between the nondenominational movement and entrepreneurship.
Can you color that a little bit? I don't know
that I could fully cover it, probably to the extent
that you can. But I do think that there is
something to having the limits and barriers removed from the
(15:48):
way you show up in the world, even as nondenominational,
that allows you to think without restriction and boundaries. And
so if I am not limited by this certain way
of living, this certain way of thinking, then I'm free
enough to create. And with that creativity comes an opportunity
to produce the solutions that our communities need, because I
think the most incredible entrepreneurship is solution based, and I
(16:11):
think that that requires freedom and liberation in order to
do that. You said it better than I could have
ever had. So you're being modest, and so you've lived
in this culture. So we live in a world where
religion is on the decline. Why do you feel like
it's more relevant than ever. You know. I actually think
that it is good for religion to be on the
decline because I think spirituality and real connection with that
(16:36):
higher power is so important for each of us. I
think part of the reason why we're seeing religion on
the decline has to do with social media. It's difficult
to feel like your religion is the religion when you're
friends with someone who is a Muslim or an atheist
on social media and you see them living their life.
It's difficult then to feel like, Okay, well, this is
the only way to do it. And so I think
(16:57):
in many ways we have become more open, and we've
come to a place, hopefully and prayerfully, will continue to
grow in this place where we are okay being who
wherever we are on our spiritual journeys, and giving people
room to do the same. As a believer in a
person of faith, my walk with Jesus, my desire to
stay connected with him is that the foremost of my convictions,
(17:18):
and it's how I relate to others. And we don't
see Jesus being religious. We see him talking and connecting
with so many different people. And I think that that's
what we're turning towards. It looks like religion is declining,
but I believe that there's something even more beautiful uprising.
I'm not an atheist, but just to put on the
atheist had here, religion has been a tool to keep
women down, especially economically, since like the Dawn of Time,
(17:42):
I mean, the story of Eve, you know, kind of
puts even her place and the damn you Eve, like
you're you're the problem. No, I told him, but I
will say this, and and and there are so many
denominations that reflect that mindset that relates to women. But
I think that we cannot underestimate the other denominations Like
(18:05):
my husband, my father have been voices of empowerment for
women for several years, decades from my father even, and
so I think that it is important that we do
have to kind of shift our focus to the places
where we do see women being celebrated. You know. As
a woman in faith, I have this following on social
media that I think is in direct contradiction to those
(18:27):
notions of oppressing women. And at the end of the day,
I do believe that there is a change taking place,
and I think it's a worthy change. But women need
to be empowered to take their position, and we need
men to be a part of that empowerment. And I'm
thankful that my husband and my father have been instrumental
in making space from my voice in their movement. What
role does entrepreneurship play and healing historically disadvantaged communities like
(18:51):
communities of color or from Texas? You know you've lived
in these communities. What role does you know taking charge
of your own economic future play and fixing these systemic problems? Yeah,
they are certainly systemic. We've got to have a multi
pronged approach. We need people invading the systems to deconstruct them,
and then we need people who are in the communities
(19:12):
who are taking ownership of their communities. I'm not just
gonna wait for someone to come in here while they're
working on whatever system is trying to keep us down.
I'm gonna do what is necessary to take care of
my community. Representation is so important. There are reasons why
people within our communities only think that they can be
rappers or basketball players because those are the images they
(19:32):
see from day to day. But the more that we
can see our brothers, our mothers, our uncle's creating businesses,
whether it's on the corner with lollipops or having convenience
stores or nonprofits within our communities. There's a sense of
ownership and pride that says, I want to take care
of my people and my community, and it allows us
to begin changing the narrative about what we think is
(19:53):
possible for people who look like us. Yeah, and especially
women play a major role in that, because entrepreneur ship
has been historically something if we take race out of
the equation, that has really been a male driven activity.
Hasn't it for sure? But I think the stats are
showing that over the last few years, that women, especially
women of color, are entering that space of entrepreneurship at
(20:15):
a rapid pace. And I think that has a lot
to do with us not seeing representation and not waiting
for someone to represent us and saying if no one
else is going to do it, I'll do it for
the people who are within my community. We're gonna take
a quick break here, be right back. Part of your
story about evolving involves burying the past. It's not so
(20:38):
easy to bury the past, especially when the past haunts
are president. If you live in a neighborhood that doesn't
function properly. The past is haunting you. If you got
pregnant when you were a team, people are still whispering
about you, Sarah, that you were that girl, right, you
were the preacher's girl who got pregnant. How do we
confront the past without ruining the president? Oh, my goodness,
(21:00):
that's such a beautiful question. I think there are some
instances and what we learned that the past is really
the boogey man, that the past is this fictional, especially
for something like me with my team pregnancy, I felt
like that past whisper was gonna follow me forever. But
when I finally said, what is it you're saying about me?
What are those words that are being spoken over my
life by fear, by my past, by my insecurity, and
(21:22):
then begin to confront those words, that I saw change.
I think that in our communities the past is ever present,
and yet I think that where we're beginning to see
changes when people confront the issues I'm not talking about
just we know that the past is haunting us. We
know that drugs have been an issue in our community.
We know the economic disadvantages have been something that's happened
in our communities. It takes someone who says, but what
(21:44):
are we going to do about it? That's what we
have to start, staying back to the voices that our past,
to the voices of fear and shame. What are we
going to do about it? We are giving a short
time here on earth, and we want to make it impactful,
and we want to make it meaningful. And so the
question becomes, if this is where I live, if these
are my people, if this is my community, what can
I do to begin to turn this ship in a
(22:05):
different direction. So, Sarah, Um, a lot of mega pastors
have gotten some heat for their lifestyles in the Gospel
of Wealth. Can we talk about that a little bit,
because that was something that was big maybe fifteen years ago,
and in fact even further back with the seven hundred
Club for young listeners, there's been several scandals were religious leaders,
(22:25):
and in fact we've had one recently with of course
Jerry Fallwell Jr. Where we see these the mighty fall
as well. I guess I have a two pronged questions, Sarah.
My first question is these people are imperfect because they're human, obviously,
but people tend to conflate that with spirituality and religion,
don't they for sure? And that's a multi layer conversation
(22:46):
when we're talking about the different ways that people are
able to make their lifestyles happen. I think that for
someone like my father or my husband and myself, we'd
have multiple businesses, multiple strains of income. The downfall to that, though,
is that there's one that is very public, and that
public thing ends up getting the credit for all of
the other businesses that we have. So it looks like
(23:07):
it's all coming from this one's stream. And yet we
have books, we have movies, we have TV shows, we
have all of these different streams in real estate that
play a role in our lifestyle. And so I think
it's on the person who was watching to see the
full picture and to make a judgment based on that
full picture. And I think when it comes to morality,
and people are faith letting us down in moral ways,
(23:28):
yet we're certainly imperfect. I think now more than ever,
we need leaders who are authentic. We need leaders who
are functioning and humility, who don't mind apologizing and saying
when they're wrong, and don't mind stepping back and stepping
down when they need time to heal. Yeah, they have
trouble doing that, Sarah, if you haven't noticed, what about
(23:48):
the interface between faith and politics, because that's something that
gets a lot of press. What is the proper role
for faith leaders in politics? My goodness, you know, I
will tell you this that when it comes to faith,
God is not a Republican or a Democrat, and I
think to utilize our platform to push for God's candidate
is not ideal. I think at the end of the
(24:09):
day that we have to remember how Jesus came to
the earth, what God's focuses on, thinking about those who
are marginalized, thinking about those who are poor. I think
those are the areas where we have to consider really
advocating if we are going to be the representation of
Heaven on earth, and I think that we can do
that without being disparaging to whoever is on the opposing
(24:29):
side of that. I think that our primary responsibility is
to operate with love and respect, regardless of a person's belief,
and I think that that's an area where we could
stand to grow a little bit more. Funny enough, I
feel like if more women had been powerful in the
faith community, we wouldn't have seen so much aggression against
the LGBT community in the past. Can we talk about
(24:52):
that a little bit? Absolutely? Well. I think this is
a generalization, but I do think that women tend to
see things through a lens of empathy and compassion, and
I think that when you're seeing anything through the lens
of empathy and compassion, that it changes the way that
we interact and engage. I'm hopeful that we'll be able
to see a change as we move forward, not just
(25:14):
in that community, but in all different types of communities,
for me, as a team mother and then a single mother,
to really see us begin to wrap our arms around everyone,
because my husband and I share this as faith leaders.
My goal is to get you to God. What God
wants to do with your life after that is between
you and Him. And some of my prayers that we
can continue to be that bridge and not the judge
(25:36):
instead of the bridge. Speaking of representation and why it matters,
you talked about representation and communities, but how about in
the nation's boardrooms and in the halls of Congress and whatnot?
Does representation matter or would you rather have someone who
doesn't look like you or isn't your gender but shares
your values? Oh? No, representation definitely matters. That feels like
(25:57):
a trick question. I mean, and if you don't believe that,
I think cancel culture is going to make sure that
we have representation in the boardroom because when we continue
to see corporate organizations make the type of mistakes that
are insensitive to communities, different communities, that they're gonna learn
those lessons and it'll be a hard lesson, but hopefully
it will open up space in those boardrooms for all
(26:19):
different types of people, not just black people, but brown
people and Asian people and all different types of people
from different walks of life. It's really interesting to see
when corporations mess up, and it seems like if they
had had you in the rooms, me in the room,
that that someone would have said, hold out a second,
like we can't do this hopefully, but you know what
(26:40):
happens is you get in the room and there you
be allowed that what happens in the room to change
who you are, and you're so afraid of losing your
seat in the room that you don't speak up. And
so we do need to be in the room, but
we also need to make sure that we are using
our voice when we are in the room, because there
has been representation in some spaces, but there wasn't a
(27:01):
culture that allowed you to actually use that representation to
expand the company's views. Ah. So now we talk about
the difference between diversity and inclusion, you hit the magic button.
So diversity is just like a United Colors of Benetitent commercial.
But inclusion means that we care with Sarah and David think.
Isn't that correct? Absolutely? And I have to tell you,
(27:23):
you know, as a black woman who has spoken in
different spaces, whether they were mostly white communities or white
corporate organizations, that I have made a commitment to make
sure that I am myself in those spaces. I don't
want to just be the token girl on the flyer.
I want to bring the fullness of my identity into
this room. And what I have learned is the core
of what I'm speaking about it when it comes to empowerment,
(27:46):
when it comes to growth, releasing our fears and our
anxieties and stepping into confidence, the core of what I
talked about it hits the room the same way whether
the room is mostly white or mostly black. But we
have to trust that the core of what we want,
whether it's for our corporate mission, or for ourselves as humanity.
The core of what we want is the same. We
just don't always agree on how it should be communicated
(28:09):
or how the work should be done. And that's where
us having the ability to be flexible and nimble really
plays a role. Yeah, well you're talking my language. Most
of these communities talk past each other. It goes back
to what I said earlier. Advocating for a certain group
is seeing as not advocating for another group, and that's
patently false. And we just use different language to talk
to each other in our respective communities. Absolutely, and I
(28:33):
think that we're getting tired of it, I really really do.
But I do think the pandemic has forced us to
have to hear thoughts that we could otherwise ignore. And
as we come out of the pandemic, one of the
things that I hope we're able to do is to
maintain our ability to hear from voices that are different
from ours. The insurrection, as terrible as it was, was
(28:53):
a rumbling that had been taken place, but we were
all so busy in our world that we didn't know
exactly how bad it was until that day when we
saw what happened to our nation's capital, and I think
now we're going to take it more seriously when someone
says something about our country. The same thing with George
Floyd's murder, when people were able to view that because
they weren't so busy with their own lives, that made
(29:15):
them more engaged with wanting change. So, Sarah, this is
potentially a sensitive question, but I've noticed that corporate America
has really jumped on the bandwagon of black lives matter,
and it seems like every stock photo model is black.
Right you go to Amazon's website or whatnot? Is this good?
Is this bab is it a mixed bag? How do
I interpret this as someone who who is not black?
(29:36):
You know, I think it's too soon to tell. I
think that actions over time are able to represent a
fuller picture, and I think that as a person of
color that I want to see how things play out
over time and what it does for people's mindsets and paradigms,
because I think when you're starting anything new, that you
try everything and then you see what works, what feels unique.
(29:58):
Sometimes you are forcing it. When you started new business
and you don't know how to market yourself, you're forcing
yourself to do things that you wouldn't otherwise be comfortable with.
But over time you're able to really capture a rhythm
that takes into account the fullness of what your business
is there to do, but also who your business serves.
And so I think it's too soon to tell, but
I like that they're willing to try. I think there's
(30:18):
something to be said about effort instead of ignorance. So
I want to finish with something that you know, I
don't quite understand because I'm too old, and I'm hoping
you're younger than me. Sarah Little Massacs and his devil
blood shoes. I mean, like it seems like an entrepreneurial thing.
(30:40):
It seems like a lot of the faux pause that
used to exist around respecting communities of faith have kind
of like disappeared, you know. I think it was and
based off of his own admission, I think that it
was I don't want to say backlash, but I think
that it was him saying to a community that he
felt hurt by that he doesn't care about their thoughts
(31:03):
and opinions anymore. For me personally, I don't want scary
movies and I don't play with the devil, so it's
not my jam at all. I don't know either, Sarah,
don't play with the devil. I don't. I don't want
his shoes, I don't want his symbols. That's not my jam,
you know. And my hope for little Noaacs when I
said this on my own podcast, is that he will
(31:24):
come to a place where he no longer has to
respond to his critics, but he would be so free
that he can create from a place of healing and impurity.
And for listeners who don't know what that is, basically,
this was this Nike shoe that this entrepreneurial sneaker, gay
black sort of satanists put human blood in and mass
(31:46):
marketed as like a niche product without Nike's authorization. Did
I do that justice, Sarah? You did? You did. It
was a lot in this sauce, but you were able
to pour it out. We liked it. I'm getting a no?
Is that a no? No? You did well? You did? Okay? Okay,
So that might not be right. So I don't have
(32:07):
a lot of time to focus on niche marketing, although
it seems like there's a lot of that these days.
It seems like the future, especially going back to our story,
is that micro entrepreneurship is really this is the best
time in the world to start a business. All the
barriers have come down. Everyone is a global vendor. People
in every corner of the earth can join the revolution,
(32:29):
and that includes people right here in the United States,
doesn't it, Sarah, Yes, you're dead and most especially women,
which is definitely why one Evolve is important to me
because I really do feel like the revolution is closer
than it appears. But it does take work. It does
take uncovering some layers and then planning some good seats.
So yes, let's start the revolution. How do you manage
(32:50):
your social media following? And I promise I'll leave you
alone after this because because that's a loaded question already
got called a trick question one, so trying to avoid
those a load of questions. How do you how do
you manage being a mother? How many children do you have?
We have six where blended family with six kiddos. They
are twenty four twenty two. We both have boys the
(33:12):
same aid, so they're now eighteen. We have an eleven
year old and a five year old. And how do
you balance being an entrepreneur? Mega pasture daughter also the
founder of a movement and also somehow having time to
talk to me. And you gotta make sure your socials
on fire. So how do you do it all? Yes,
(33:33):
I store up photos for social media because most of
the day I'm in sweatpants. And this is the other thing, Like,
this is the big secret. I'm going to give it
away on your podcast. The big secret is to be
the same in every space, that when you're not having
to change who you are to show up in another location.
The same person I am when I'm running my business,
the same person talking to you on this podcast, is
(33:55):
the same person you would see in a sermon. It's
the same person who you would see frying chicken in
my kitchen. And the more that I'm able to maintain
that authenticity and allow what to show up in different spaces,
the easier it is to balance. And I think the
key thing is also saying no, knowing when I've had enough,
knowing when I need some soul care and not just
self care. That makes a big difference for me. So
(34:17):
where do we learn more about you? Sarah? You can
follow me on all the socials I'm Sarah Jakes Roberts,
and you can get plugged in with the movement via
our podcast or even on social media as well. Okay, cool,
And you got to give a shout out to dad.
What's that up to these days? That man is a
busy man. He's got a lifetime deal. He's got movies
coming out and like consecutively over the next few months.
(34:40):
And he's got a book dropping, he's on skate somewhere.
And how does he do it? How do you all
do that? How do you manage all the pressure? Because
everyone thinks it's so easy to be part of the glitterati,
what it really it's hard. You know. I think God
that we've got great team. We've got great team that
allows us to function in different spaces, and um, we
take lots of gnats, that's what. That's it. And I
(35:02):
and I would be amiss not to ask about your mother. Oh, yes,
my friend, she's doing so good. She just went back
to school. She just finished her degree. She decided to
go back to school in the middle of the pandemic,
so she finished her degree. She's working on her business
and she's still covering for me. I had her make
something for a friend of mine who just had a baby.
So she's still holding it down. And she always does
(35:25):
so wait, mom's evolving too. My mother is big Tommy evolving.
She got us out of the house and became someone
who I totally admire and didn't I get to see
growing up. She's like doing things. I saw some snaps
there which you can't see on audio. I guess we'll
just snap like this. Well, Sarah, I so appreciate your time.
(35:46):
All the best to you, your husband and your six children.
And sunny Los Angeles. I'm jealous. I imagined the weather
there is better than here in Orlando, Florida, not so hot.
It's great. Thank you, Thank you for this opportunity. Thanks
to all of you for joining me as we follow
(36:07):
the profit. And a big warm thanks to Sarah Jake's
Roberts way cooler than me and also the author of
Women Evolved and is wanting to share two people, especially women,
how they can get past those fears and really revolutionize
their life. And a shout out to our team of
producers Emileano lemon Over in San Diego, California, Scott Hantler
and Chyennrid in New York, and our executive producers New
(36:30):
Gingrich and Debbie Myers. I'm your host, David Grasso if
you like this show, go ahead and give me five stars,
and my team will look at that review so that
we can learn what this show should be about. Follow
the Profit is a production of ging Rich three sixty
and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(36:50):
you get your podcasts. All opinion is expressed by David
Grasso and his guests on the show are solely their
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sixty or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by
David Grasso on this podcast, television, radio, internet, or another medium.
(37:15):
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(37:35):
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(37:59):
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(38:20):
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(38:44):
advice from your own financial or investment advisor,
Follow the Profit is a production of Ging Rich three
sixty and I Heart Radio. The workplace is slowly gaining
steam as the pandemic is seemingly getting more under control, hopefully,
and as more people find work, women again are facing
difficult decisions on whether to focus on finding a job
or caring for their family. And we'll take a look
(00:21):
at some of the solutions that could help turn that around. Plus,
speaking of turning around, our next guest is a firm
believer that people should Many women find themselves defined by
their mistakes from their past, and our guests says the
path to really follow is to evolve, to break up
with your fears and revolutionize your life. I'm David Grosso,
(00:41):
and this is Following the Profit. You're looking to get
rich quick, Well, this isn't the podcast for you. When
you listen to Follow the Profit, We're going to deconstruct
what's going on in the world around us economically, politically,
and socially so that you can use your own money
(01:01):
to help you. And when it comes to the workplace,
women have been fighting for every gain in that arena.
They have to fight really hard over things like equal pay, discrimination,
opportunity in general, maternity leave, other family issues, and of
course progress was made, but when COVID hit, it brought
(01:23):
women back several steps. So the pandemic, as you probably remember,
hit its peak in April, and many people of many
backgrounds lost their jobs, but women saw the biggest hit
at men at but if you hone in on a
certain group, women of color, that number one as high
(01:47):
as almost twenty So the employment hurdles that women faced
during the pandemic didn't stop there. It turns out that
many of the industries that employ a large amount of women,
such as education and healthcare, they routinely saw furloughs and
mandated shutdowns. So if women were able to hold onto
their job, they then had to face other tough decisions
(02:09):
like childcare, elder care, and probably the biggest one homeschooling.
In Massachusetts is a state that has one of the
highest number of women in the workforce, and they saw
those numbers dropped during the pandemic. Many experts called this
period the she session, so women working during COVID saw
a spike and not being able to get proper time
(02:30):
off to care for themselves or loved ones, whether they
were infected or in quarantine. And really these decisions were
often brutal. Do I keep a job or do I
care for my loved ones? And it was decisions like
that that scaled back a lot of the progress that
women had seen in the workplace, and some states are
currently looking at ways to fix the problem, whether it
(02:51):
be easier access to childcare, retraining for new jobs, or
funding for emergency paid leave. Paid leave has all always
been something that women have been fighting for and specifically
a lot of studies show that women being out of
the workplace severely inhibits their career, especially when it comes
to child's rearing. Additionally, other studies show that somehow, some way,
(03:15):
the way women operate, they tend to ask for raises less.
So we're gonna break that down with my guests for
a moment here. I want you to place yourself in
the garden of Eden. Specifically, put your place in the
position of Eve. We all know the story. You're told
by your creator that you can have anything in the
(03:37):
garden except the fruit from this one tree. Well, we
all know how the story ends. Eve was tempted and voila,
she ate from the tree, and then she offered up
that apple or whatever fruit variety existed in that tale.
She offered it to Adam and he ate from the tree,
and then the fall of mankind happened. So our next
(04:00):
guests says, there's a lot to be learned from this story,
essentially that one cannot focus on who they were, but
instead pursue what they can become and the way this
tale is told, especially in the Judeo Christian tradition which
I was raised. And of course a lot of focus
is placed on Eve and her past failure, but perhaps
(04:21):
a major lesson for women is to move away from
that path and spend their energy trying to evolve. Women
have the strength to break away from their fears and
instead of place a priority on revolutionizing their lives, and
her next guests will explain that mindset and more. She
is Sarah Jakes Roberts, daughter of Pastor T. D. Jake's.
In her early twenties, she found herself dealing with low
(04:43):
self esteem, toxic relationships, depression, and other insecurities and at
one point a decision had to be made, settle for
who she was or evolved. Today, she's over in sunny California.
She's a wife, mom, businesswoman, and spiritual warrior, and she
joins us, Now, how you doing, Sarah, I'm doing great.
(05:03):
Thank you for having me so. Adam and Eve is
one of the oldest stories that we can think of
that was told to us as children. How did you
channel this story, which of course us know, and use
that to send a message to women. Well, I think
to your point, when we look at how women have
been represented throughout culture, whether it is that you will pay,
(05:24):
that they're looking for or just fighting for their space
in the workplace, I really believe that the woman's perception
goes back to what happened in the garden, and that
perception of the woman was obviously diminished when Eve ate
from this fruit. Because I was like most people when
I thought about Adam and Eve, I was like, Eve
messed it up for us all she is not my friend.
There is no way we can ever forgive Eve for
(05:45):
ruining humanity. But when I looked back at it, I
saw that when we look at that story that we
have used to vilify, even to be honest, so many
other women. What I learned is one the original intention
for male and female was to have dominion. It was
to be fruitful and to multiply it was to subdue.
There was never this hierarchy. There was always equality from
(06:05):
that original intention. And so as I began studying what
I realized because about not eating from the fruit, God
says that if you eat from this fruit, you will
surely die. But Eve lives on after that. What dies
in Eve? I think her courage, I think her right
to feel like she belongs in the space that she's in,
advocating for her stuff. I think those are the things
that died in that moment. And so Woman evolved for
(06:27):
me is about rescuing Eve. But any other woman who
feels like her courage, her faith, her ability to stand
up for herself is beginning to shrivel and die to
show her that there's life after forbidden fruit. So some
of the nastiest forms of discrimination I've seen in my
life have been against women, which is odd because we
all have mothers, right, There's no possible way for someone
(06:50):
to be walking this earth without a mother. Why do
you think that's become so normalized? And do we have
a double standard the way we view our mother Visa Vie,
the way we view other women. Perhaps I'm speaking of
course of men. Sure you know, my husband says that
all the time. He says, women have been the most
oppressed people group throughout history, and I really do feel
that it goes back to this moment in the garden.
(07:11):
I think from that moment forward that it felt like
women couldn't be trusted, and so women had to have
their plans and their lives kind of premeditated by men
who didn't understand what it was like to be women.
And so I think that there's a fragility maybe that
we perceive women with. And yet I have met some
incredibly strong women, like my mother, like so many women
who we've seen main history, and um, I think the
(07:34):
goal is to get it to see that our strength
is not an anomaly, that this is a part of
our fullness and our identity, and so it needs to
be highlighted more and we need to be empowered to
put it on display. Well, what I like is that
you're touching on an issue. And one of the things
about our culture right now is that when we are
of a group that is, you know, let's say, viewed
(07:55):
as less powerful, instead of celebrating victimhood, you're celebrating victory.
Can you tell me more about that? Absolutely, because, like you,
most people feel like that is where Eve's story in
the Bible, and she eats from that fruit, she ruins
it for us all, and then we look for the
woman who comes after that. And yet when I studied,
I saw that that's not really where her story ended.
(08:17):
That in that moment that God comes down and he
talks to the serpent and he tells the serpent, there's
gonna be war between you and the woman, and you're
gonna bruise her heel. But at the end of the day,
the seed that she produces is going to bruise your head.
And so what I see from Eve after that moment
is her being intentional about manifesting the next thing that
is supposed to happen in her life. Sometimes we get
(08:39):
stuck when we feel like we've been victimized, whether it's
by our own decisions or the choices of others, and
we don't see that we have the ability to manifest
the next if we're willing to do the hard work
to dig in our wounds to discover the wisdom that's
connected to them. So you grew up in the church.
Obviously your dad is T. D. Jake's Mega church pastor.
(08:59):
I grew up in a big church as well. Can
you tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, you know,
it's crazy whenever I hear people say megachurch, I think
there's such a misnomer with that, because the truth is,
I was just seeing my father walk out what he
felt was his purpose and what he was called to do,
and people just kept coming, and so we had to
create a space that was big enough for the people
(09:20):
who kept coming. And as we continue to invite people
into our church family, there were all different types of
family environments that were created within our church community. And
you know, I had so many experiences that played out
in front of those family members. My highs and my loads,
my struggles, my team, pregnancy, my divorce. All of these
things happened within the context of that community. And some
(09:42):
days it was easy, other days it was difficult. But
to my personal families credit, they were amazing and steadfast
through it all. We're gonna take a quick break here,
be right back. So a lot of times the churches
give it and take it away, right Sarah. In a
(10:05):
time of need, they help. But you know, it's a
community of humans. A lot of times you face judgment
for certain decisions that you've made. Can you tell me
a little bit about that. I think one of the
prime examples is when I got pregnant at thirteen and
I had my child at fourteen, and there were some
people who wanted me to get up and apologize in
front of the entire church, and that was really challenging
(10:25):
because you know, a lot of the times I was
playing with their children, so I knew what their kids
were doing, and yet they were holding me to this standard.
But I will also say that when members of the
press came out to try and get a story, or
when I actually had my son, there were also people
who you could tell were like lovingly holding me and
they're embraced even from afar and kind of making me
(10:46):
see that I wasn't in it by myself. So there
is a mix of all of it happening at the
same place, and I'm grateful that I didn't feel completely isolated,
even though my shame tried to make me believe that
there was no one who was for me in that moment. Obviously,
when you're the child of someone who is powerful or
influential or whatnot, you're judged by a different standard, aren't you. Definitely.
(11:08):
But I've always told people like if a dentist child
has a cavity, they don't want to take the dentist
license away. Right. We know that part of humanity means
like we're going to be out here on a journey,
and yet in church, if something happens, they want everything dismantled.
And so I'm hoping that people will become more compassionate
with that, but I know that that's the reality for
(11:30):
a lot of people. So tell me a little bit
about what made you evolve so your team Pregnan see
that the story of Eve didn't end. When the tale ended,
it looks like your story continues. Sarah, tell us about
your story. When I first got pregnant, I was trying
so hard to not be the girl who got pregnant,
whatever judgment that is. That was in my mind about
(11:50):
what it means to be pregnant as a as a teenager,
I wanted to run as far away from that as possible.
I wanted to go to college. I wanted to do X,
Y and Z. I had this dream for my life,
and every time I tried to do that it felt
like I was failing. I had this one course in
college I couldn't complete, dropped out of school because I
knew I couldn't get into business school, and I just
(12:10):
kept meeting failure after failure after failure. And it wasn't
until I decided to stop trying to be the girl
who got pregnant and except that I am the girl
who got pregnant. That is a part of my story
and it's not a part of my story that I
just want to put in the closet and act like
it's not there. And I think that that struggled to
embrace your truth is where I was. But my story
(12:31):
began to shift and change. What I said, this is
who I am, this is what I've gone through. Now
what now? What can I do with what I have left?
And it was that humility and that beautiful brokenness that
allowed me to start connecting with other women who wanted
that as well, and from that this Woman Evolved movement
kind of blossomed into what it is today. What lessons
(12:53):
does women involved have for men? Because we always do
this thing right, When we're advocating for a certain group,
it's perceived as not advocating for another. I have to
tell you that because my husband is like my number
one supporter of Woman Evolved and he is very much
so a man, right, But I think that there is
something about us as women also come into a place
where my evolving doesn't mean that I want men to
(13:16):
dissolve that even if we go back to that story
when God blessed male and female, he created them to
have dominion in the world together. And so for me,
woman evolved is an opportunity for men to even understand
the women in their lives better. If you've got nieces
or daughters, or sisters or a mother to take a
moment and be able to see life through her perspective.
(13:38):
Maybe we think certain things were hard, but don't necessarily
recognize the true damage or the true issues that could
have sprung up for her when experiencing different things in life.
And so I think it's an intimate view and to
what it means to be a woman in this day
and age, and it makes you better allies as we
continue to fight for equality. Yeah, so let's talk about
equality because this shows about money we follow the pro
(14:00):
I think one of the scariest things about living in
marginalized communities or being a you know, pregnantine or you know,
being an unemployed woman, man, black, white, Asian whatever it
is is the economic insecurity, Can we talk a little
bit about that? Yeah? Absolutely, And as a woman of color,
and especially someone who is a person of faith, you know,
(14:21):
our number one objective is to make sure, of course
we're dealing with the spiritual issues, but how can we
support people who are experiencing economic insecurity. The moment that
the pandemic hit, women evolved, knew that there were going
to be mothers and women who were having to make
some tough decisions, and so we immediately begin flooding our
communities with as many resources as possible, financial, emotional, mental,
(14:45):
because I don't think what we really understand is it's
not just the economic insecurity, it's generations of economic insecurity.
There is a mentality of oppression that begins to permeate
our communities when that happens, and we don't even think
that there is a way to or a path towards entrepreneurship,
a way to climb the ladder. And so that mental
(15:06):
connection to it, I think is also something that needs
to be highlighted because there is opportunity after whatever we've
gone through, but being clear enough to see it is difficult. Yeah,
So that's really interesting the entrepreneurial mindset, because I feel
like I had that because I'm the son of an
immigrant my mother. But beyond that, we were also part
(15:27):
of the nondenominational movement growing up, and I don't think
people understand the the interface between the nondenominational movement and entrepreneurship.
Can you color that a little bit? I don't know
that I could fully cover it, probably to the extent
that you can. But I do think that there is
something to having the limits and barriers removed from the
(15:48):
way you show up in the world, even as nondenominational,
that allows you to think without restriction and boundaries. And
so if I am not limited by this certain way
of living, this certain way of thinking, then I'm free
enough to create. And with that creativity comes an opportunity
to produce the solutions that our communities need, because I
think the most incredible entrepreneurship is solution based, and I
(16:11):
think that that requires freedom and liberation in order to
do that. You said it better than I could have
ever had. So you're being modest, and so you've lived
in this culture. So we live in a world where
religion is on the decline. Why do you feel like
it's more relevant than ever. You know. I actually think
that it is good for religion to be on the
decline because I think spirituality and real connection with that
(16:36):
higher power is so important for each of us. I
think part of the reason why we're seeing religion on
the decline has to do with social media. It's difficult
to feel like your religion is the religion when you're
friends with someone who is a Muslim or an atheist
on social media and you see them living their life.
It's difficult then to feel like, Okay, well, this is
the only way to do it. And so I think
(16:57):
in many ways we have become more open, and we've
come to a place, hopefully and prayerfully, will continue to
grow in this place where we are okay being who
wherever we are on our spiritual journeys, and giving people
room to do the same. As a believer in a
person of faith, my walk with Jesus, my desire to
stay connected with him is that the foremost of my convictions,
(17:18):
and it's how I relate to others. And we don't
see Jesus being religious. We see him talking and connecting
with so many different people. And I think that that's
what we're turning towards. It looks like religion is declining,
but I believe that there's something even more beautiful uprising.
I'm not an atheist, but just to put on the
atheist had here, religion has been a tool to keep
women down, especially economically, since like the Dawn of Time,
(17:42):
I mean, the story of Eve, you know, kind of
puts even her place and the damn you Eve, like
you're you're the problem. No, I told him, but I
will say this, and and and there are so many
denominations that reflect that mindset that relates to women. But
I think that we cannot underestimate the other denominations Like
(18:05):
my husband, my father have been voices of empowerment for
women for several years, decades from my father even, and
so I think that it is important that we do
have to kind of shift our focus to the places
where we do see women being celebrated. You know. As
a woman in faith, I have this following on social
media that I think is in direct contradiction to those
(18:27):
notions of oppressing women. And at the end of the day,
I do believe that there is a change taking place,
and I think it's a worthy change. But women need
to be empowered to take their position, and we need
men to be a part of that empowerment. And I'm
thankful that my husband and my father have been instrumental
in making space from my voice in their movement. What
role does entrepreneurship play and healing historically disadvantaged communities like
(18:51):
communities of color or from Texas? You know you've lived
in these communities. What role does you know taking charge
of your own economic future play and fixing these systemic problems? Yeah,
they are certainly systemic. We've got to have a multi
pronged approach. We need people invading the systems to deconstruct them,
and then we need people who are in the communities
(19:12):
who are taking ownership of their communities. I'm not just
gonna wait for someone to come in here while they're
working on whatever system is trying to keep us down.
I'm gonna do what is necessary to take care of
my community. Representation is so important. There are reasons why
people within our communities only think that they can be
rappers or basketball players because those are the images they
(19:32):
see from day to day. But the more that we
can see our brothers, our mothers, our uncle's creating businesses,
whether it's on the corner with lollipops or having convenience
stores or nonprofits within our communities. There's a sense of
ownership and pride that says, I want to take care
of my people and my community, and it allows us
to begin changing the narrative about what we think is
(19:53):
possible for people who look like us. Yeah, and especially
women play a major role in that, because entrepreneur ship
has been historically something if we take race out of
the equation, that has really been a male driven activity.
Hasn't it for sure? But I think the stats are
showing that over the last few years, that women, especially
women of color, are entering that space of entrepreneurship at
(20:15):
a rapid pace. And I think that has a lot
to do with us not seeing representation and not waiting
for someone to represent us and saying if no one
else is going to do it, I'll do it for
the people who are within my community. We're gonna take
a quick break here, be right back. Part of your
story about evolving involves burying the past. It's not so
(20:38):
easy to bury the past, especially when the past haunts
are president. If you live in a neighborhood that doesn't
function properly. The past is haunting you. If you got
pregnant when you were a team, people are still whispering
about you, Sarah, that you were that girl, right, you
were the preacher's girl who got pregnant. How do we
confront the past without ruining the president? Oh, my goodness,
(21:00):
that's such a beautiful question. I think there are some
instances and what we learned that the past is really
the boogey man, that the past is this fictional, especially
for something like me with my team pregnancy, I felt
like that past whisper was gonna follow me forever. But
when I finally said, what is it you're saying about me?
What are those words that are being spoken over my
life by fear, by my past, by my insecurity, and
(21:22):
then begin to confront those words, that I saw change.
I think that in our communities the past is ever present,
and yet I think that where we're beginning to see
changes when people confront the issues I'm not talking about
just we know that the past is haunting us. We
know that drugs have been an issue in our community.
We know the economic disadvantages have been something that's happened
in our communities. It takes someone who says, but what
(21:44):
are we going to do about it? That's what we
have to start, staying back to the voices that our past,
to the voices of fear and shame. What are we
going to do about it? We are giving a short
time here on earth, and we want to make it impactful,
and we want to make it meaningful. And so the
question becomes, if this is where I live, if these
are my people, if this is my community, what can
I do to begin to turn this ship in a
(22:05):
different direction. So, Sarah, Um, a lot of mega pastors
have gotten some heat for their lifestyles in the Gospel
of Wealth. Can we talk about that a little bit,
because that was something that was big maybe fifteen years ago,
and in fact even further back with the seven hundred
Club for young listeners, there's been several scandals were religious leaders,
(22:25):
and in fact we've had one recently with of course
Jerry Fallwell Jr. Where we see these the mighty fall
as well. I guess I have a two pronged questions, Sarah.
My first question is these people are imperfect because they're human, obviously,
but people tend to conflate that with spirituality and religion,
don't they for sure? And that's a multi layer conversation
(22:46):
when we're talking about the different ways that people are
able to make their lifestyles happen. I think that for
someone like my father or my husband and myself, we'd
have multiple businesses, multiple strains of income. The downfall to that, though,
is that there's one that is very public, and that
public thing ends up getting the credit for all of
the other businesses that we have. So it looks like
(23:07):
it's all coming from this one's stream. And yet we
have books, we have movies, we have TV shows, we
have all of these different streams in real estate that
play a role in our lifestyle. And so I think
it's on the person who was watching to see the
full picture and to make a judgment based on that
full picture. And I think when it comes to morality,
and people are faith letting us down in moral ways,
(23:28):
yet we're certainly imperfect. I think now more than ever,
we need leaders who are authentic. We need leaders who
are functioning and humility, who don't mind apologizing and saying
when they're wrong, and don't mind stepping back and stepping
down when they need time to heal. Yeah, they have
trouble doing that, Sarah, if you haven't noticed, what about
(23:48):
the interface between faith and politics, because that's something that
gets a lot of press. What is the proper role
for faith leaders in politics? My goodness, you know, I
will tell you this that when it comes to faith,
God is not a Republican or a Democrat, and I
think to utilize our platform to push for God's candidate
is not ideal. I think at the end of the
(24:09):
day that we have to remember how Jesus came to
the earth, what God's focuses on, thinking about those who
are marginalized, thinking about those who are poor. I think
those are the areas where we have to consider really
advocating if we are going to be the representation of
Heaven on earth, and I think that we can do
that without being disparaging to whoever is on the opposing
(24:29):
side of that. I think that our primary responsibility is
to operate with love and respect, regardless of a person's belief,
and I think that that's an area where we could
stand to grow a little bit more. Funny enough, I
feel like if more women had been powerful in the
faith community, we wouldn't have seen so much aggression against
the LGBT community in the past. Can we talk about
(24:52):
that a little bit? Absolutely? Well. I think this is
a generalization, but I do think that women tend to
see things through a lens of empathy and compassion, and
I think that when you're seeing anything through the lens
of empathy and compassion, that it changes the way that
we interact and engage. I'm hopeful that we'll be able
to see a change as we move forward, not just
(25:14):
in that community, but in all different types of communities,
for me, as a team mother and then a single mother,
to really see us begin to wrap our arms around everyone,
because my husband and I share this as faith leaders.
My goal is to get you to God. What God
wants to do with your life after that is between
you and Him. And some of my prayers that we
can continue to be that bridge and not the judge
(25:36):
instead of the bridge. Speaking of representation and why it matters,
you talked about representation and communities, but how about in
the nation's boardrooms and in the halls of Congress and whatnot?
Does representation matter or would you rather have someone who
doesn't look like you or isn't your gender but shares
your values? Oh? No, representation definitely matters. That feels like
(25:57):
a trick question. I mean, and if you don't believe that,
I think cancel culture is going to make sure that
we have representation in the boardroom because when we continue
to see corporate organizations make the type of mistakes that
are insensitive to communities, different communities, that they're gonna learn
those lessons and it'll be a hard lesson, but hopefully
it will open up space in those boardrooms for all
(26:19):
different types of people, not just black people, but brown
people and Asian people and all different types of people
from different walks of life. It's really interesting to see
when corporations mess up, and it seems like if they
had had you in the rooms, me in the room,
that that someone would have said, hold out a second,
like we can't do this hopefully, but you know what
(26:40):
happens is you get in the room and there you
be allowed that what happens in the room to change
who you are, and you're so afraid of losing your
seat in the room that you don't speak up. And
so we do need to be in the room, but
we also need to make sure that we are using
our voice when we are in the room, because there
has been representation in some spaces, but there wasn't a
(27:01):
culture that allowed you to actually use that representation to
expand the company's views. Ah. So now we talk about
the difference between diversity and inclusion, you hit the magic button.
So diversity is just like a United Colors of Benetitent commercial.
But inclusion means that we care with Sarah and David think.
Isn't that correct? Absolutely? And I have to tell you,
(27:23):
you know, as a black woman who has spoken in
different spaces, whether they were mostly white communities or white
corporate organizations, that I have made a commitment to make
sure that I am myself in those spaces. I don't
want to just be the token girl on the flyer.
I want to bring the fullness of my identity into
this room. And what I have learned is the core
of what I'm speaking about it when it comes to empowerment,
(27:46):
when it comes to growth, releasing our fears and our
anxieties and stepping into confidence, the core of what I
talked about it hits the room the same way whether
the room is mostly white or mostly black. But we
have to trust that the core of what we want,
whether it's for our corporate mission, or for ourselves as humanity.
The core of what we want is the same. We
just don't always agree on how it should be communicated
(28:09):
or how the work should be done. And that's where
us having the ability to be flexible and nimble really
plays a role. Yeah, well you're talking my language. Most
of these communities talk past each other. It goes back
to what I said earlier. Advocating for a certain group
is seeing as not advocating for another group, and that's
patently false. And we just use different language to talk
to each other in our respective communities. Absolutely, and I
(28:33):
think that we're getting tired of it, I really really do.
But I do think the pandemic has forced us to
have to hear thoughts that we could otherwise ignore. And
as we come out of the pandemic, one of the
things that I hope we're able to do is to
maintain our ability to hear from voices that are different
from ours. The insurrection, as terrible as it was, was
(28:53):
a rumbling that had been taken place, but we were
all so busy in our world that we didn't know
exactly how bad it was until that day when we
saw what happened to our nation's capital, and I think
now we're going to take it more seriously when someone
says something about our country. The same thing with George
Floyd's murder, when people were able to view that because
they weren't so busy with their own lives, that made
(29:15):
them more engaged with wanting change. So, Sarah, this is
potentially a sensitive question, but I've noticed that corporate America
has really jumped on the bandwagon of black lives matter,
and it seems like every stock photo model is black.
Right you go to Amazon's website or whatnot? Is this good?
Is this bab is it a mixed bag? How do
I interpret this as someone who who is not black?
(29:36):
You know, I think it's too soon to tell. I
think that actions over time are able to represent a
fuller picture, and I think that as a person of
color that I want to see how things play out
over time and what it does for people's mindsets and paradigms,
because I think when you're starting anything new, that you
try everything and then you see what works, what feels unique.
(29:58):
Sometimes you are forcing it. When you started new business
and you don't know how to market yourself, you're forcing
yourself to do things that you wouldn't otherwise be comfortable with.
But over time you're able to really capture a rhythm
that takes into account the fullness of what your business
is there to do, but also who your business serves.
And so I think it's too soon to tell, but
I like that they're willing to try. I think there's
(30:18):
something to be said about effort instead of ignorance. So
I want to finish with something that you know, I
don't quite understand because I'm too old, and I'm hoping
you're younger than me. Sarah Little Massacs and his devil
blood shoes. I mean, like it seems like an entrepreneurial thing.
(30:40):
It seems like a lot of the faux pause that
used to exist around respecting communities of faith have kind
of like disappeared, you know. I think it was and
based off of his own admission, I think that it
was I don't want to say backlash, but I think
that it was him saying to a community that he
felt hurt by that he doesn't care about their thoughts
(31:03):
and opinions anymore. For me personally, I don't want scary
movies and I don't play with the devil, so it's
not my jam at all. I don't know either, Sarah,
don't play with the devil. I don't. I don't want
his shoes, I don't want his symbols. That's not my jam,
you know. And my hope for little Noaacs when I
said this on my own podcast, is that he will
(31:24):
come to a place where he no longer has to
respond to his critics, but he would be so free
that he can create from a place of healing and impurity.
And for listeners who don't know what that is, basically,
this was this Nike shoe that this entrepreneurial sneaker, gay
black sort of satanists put human blood in and mass
(31:46):
marketed as like a niche product without Nike's authorization. Did
I do that justice, Sarah? You did? You did. It
was a lot in this sauce, but you were able
to pour it out. We liked it. I'm getting a no?
Is that a no? No? You did well? You did? Okay? Okay,
So that might not be right. So I don't have
(32:07):
a lot of time to focus on niche marketing, although
it seems like there's a lot of that these days.
It seems like the future, especially going back to our story,
is that micro entrepreneurship is really this is the best
time in the world to start a business. All the
barriers have come down. Everyone is a global vendor. People
in every corner of the earth can join the revolution,
(32:29):
and that includes people right here in the United States,
doesn't it, Sarah, Yes, you're dead and most especially women,
which is definitely why one Evolve is important to me
because I really do feel like the revolution is closer
than it appears. But it does take work. It does
take uncovering some layers and then planning some good seats.
So yes, let's start the revolution. How do you manage
(32:50):
your social media following? And I promise I'll leave you
alone after this because because that's a loaded question already
got called a trick question one, so trying to avoid
those a load of questions. How do you how do
you manage being a mother? How many children do you have?
We have six where blended family with six kiddos. They
are twenty four twenty two. We both have boys the
(33:12):
same aid, so they're now eighteen. We have an eleven
year old and a five year old. And how do
you balance being an entrepreneur? Mega pasture daughter also the
founder of a movement and also somehow having time to
talk to me. And you gotta make sure your socials
on fire. So how do you do it all? Yes,
(33:33):
I store up photos for social media because most of
the day I'm in sweatpants. And this is the other thing, Like,
this is the big secret. I'm going to give it
away on your podcast. The big secret is to be
the same in every space, that when you're not having
to change who you are to show up in another location.
The same person I am when I'm running my business,
the same person talking to you on this podcast, is
(33:55):
the same person you would see in a sermon. It's
the same person who you would see frying chicken in
my kitchen. And the more that I'm able to maintain
that authenticity and allow what to show up in different spaces,
the easier it is to balance. And I think the
key thing is also saying no, knowing when I've had enough,
knowing when I need some soul care and not just
self care. That makes a big difference for me. So
(34:17):
where do we learn more about you? Sarah? You can
follow me on all the socials I'm Sarah Jakes Roberts,
and you can get plugged in with the movement via
our podcast or even on social media as well. Okay, cool,
And you got to give a shout out to dad.
What's that up to these days? That man is a
busy man. He's got a lifetime deal. He's got movies
coming out and like consecutively over the next few months.
(34:40):
And he's got a book dropping, he's on skate somewhere.
And how does he do it? How do you all
do that? How do you manage all the pressure? Because
everyone thinks it's so easy to be part of the glitterati,
what it really it's hard. You know. I think God
that we've got great team. We've got great team that
allows us to function in different spaces, and um, we
take lots of gnats, that's what. That's it. And I
(35:02):
and I would be amiss not to ask about your mother. Oh, yes,
my friend, she's doing so good. She just went back
to school. She just finished her degree. She decided to
go back to school in the middle of the pandemic,
so she finished her degree. She's working on her business
and she's still covering for me. I had her make
something for a friend of mine who just had a baby.
So she's still holding it down. And she always does
(35:25):
so wait, mom's evolving too. My mother is big Tommy evolving.
She got us out of the house and became someone
who I totally admire and didn't I get to see
growing up. She's like doing things. I saw some snaps
there which you can't see on audio. I guess we'll
just snap like this. Well, Sarah, I so appreciate your time.
(35:46):
All the best to you, your husband and your six children.
And sunny Los Angeles. I'm jealous. I imagined the weather
there is better than here in Orlando, Florida, not so hot.
It's great. Thank you, Thank you for this opportunity. Thanks
to all of you for joining me as we follow
(36:07):
the profit. And a big warm thanks to Sarah Jake's
Roberts way cooler than me and also the author of
Women Evolved and is wanting to share two people, especially women,
how they can get past those fears and really revolutionize
their life. And a shout out to our team of
producers Emileano lemon Over in San Diego, California, Scott Hantler
and Chyennrid in New York, and our executive producers New
(36:30):
Gingrich and Debbie Myers. I'm your host, David Grasso if
you like this show, go ahead and give me five stars,
and my team will look at that review so that
we can learn what this show should be about. Follow
the Profit is a production of ging Rich three sixty
and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
(36:50):
you get your podcasts. All opinion is expressed by David
Grasso and his guests on the show are solely their
opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Gingrich three
sixty or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by
David Grasso on this podcast, television, radio, internet, or another medium.
(37:15):
You should not treat any opinion expressed by David Grass
so as a specific inducement to make a particular investment
or follow in particular strategy, but only as an expression
of his opinion. David Grass's opinions are based upon information
he considers reliable, but neither ging Rich Productions, nor its
affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and
(37:35):
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(37:59):
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(38:20):
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