Global Health Is A Collective Problem: How We Can Solve It, Together?

In a semi post-pandemic world, there’s no doubt that global health is still very much a problem - especially when it comes to inequity and access. Leveling the playing field in places where there are very little resources to go around, or in places that aren’t even aware they desperately need help, can feel overwhelming and near impossible. Especially in the mental health space. Our guests today prove that sometimes giving your time, compassion and skill set towards a cause are priceless resources just as vital as financial contributions.

 

In this episode, hear from Juan Acosta – a mental health advocate and regional manager at CalHOPE Warm Line at Mental Health Association of San Francisco who began his work at the young age of 13, and Dr. Karry Jose Felix, Chief Surgeon at Doctors Without Borders. Both guests talk about their journey within their organizations, and how they’ve brought their lived experiences to help their communities to create a bigger, lasting impact for health access and change.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello, and welcome back. Now. In Part one of our
Global Health Conversation, we talked a lot about this idea
that health is less of an individual issue and more
of a collective problem, and our guests in that conversation
proved that when we work together, when we try to
heal and help one another, we save lives. So make

(00:27):
sure you don't miss that episode. Meanwhile, as I've shared
with you before, I love this idea of putting our
heads together, joining forces, and basically becoming voltron for change.
So today I'm gonna continue exploring global health by putting
the spotlight on some action leaders. These are folks on
the ground providing health care access, both physical and mental,

(00:51):
in some remote places, including right here in the United States.
I wanted to know a few things. What's it like
to provide healthcare in places where inequity is a problem.
How do you globalize an issue that has so many
nuances within each government, each system, in each community. How
do you facilitate mental health access in the community that

(01:13):
doesn't know it desperately needs it. To answer some of
these questions, I sat down with Juan Acosta, a mental
health advocate and regional manager at cal Hope Warmline at
the Mental Health Association of San Francisco. He began his
work really young, accumulating over two hundred hours of community
service at age fifteen. He's also a New York Times

(01:36):
bestselling author for a book he co authored with Lady Gaga, Yeah,
Lady Gaga called Channel Kindness, Stories of Kindness and Community.
After one, We'll hear from Dr Kerry Joe's Felix. He
works as a chief surgeon at Doctors Without Borders and
has been with the organization since He spent time offering

(01:57):
his services all over the world, from his native home
in Haiti to the Congo in Africa. Welcome to Force Multiplier.
Thank you for joining me. Thank you. So you have

(02:17):
a book with Lady Gaga. I saw you kicking it
with Selena Gomez and the first Lady at the White House.
So I just want to start by saying congratulations on
your life one. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Now.
I know things didn't start this way. Can you take
me back to some of your early days. Tell me
where you were born and raised, some of your early

(02:38):
home and school experiences. Great well, I was born in Halisco, Mexico,
and I came to this country at age two. Uh
So growing up. I grew up in Woodland, California, and
growing up here was quite interesting because it's a small town,
so everybody knows one another. And because I immigrated to

(02:59):
this country, I didn't know the English language when I
first arrived, and I have to learn it throughout grade school,
which put me through some barriers and communication with my classmates,
with my teachers, and I started to get made fun
of for those things. And I was also being labeled
things in regards to my sexuality prior to me being

(03:20):
able to acknowledge it myself. So that's when a little
bit of my mental health journey began and just why
I got into the work that I did today. We
all have so many parts to our identities, and you've
hinted at a few pieces already. But what parts of
yourself and your identity are you comfortable with and fully
embracing now that you weren't able to do with a kid. Yeah,

(03:43):
I think living authentically as a gay man has been
one of the things that I'm most proud of today.
It brought me a lot of fear and a lot
of inner conflict to even be able to name that
out to people, to my parents, to my ends. I
felt like I had to repress and hide a lot

(04:04):
of who I was in order to be living in
a society that I felt was not meant for people
like me. This feeling, this internal tension, is feeling of
repression that you just described. How did that show up
in your life? Yeah, it manifested in many ways, and
I generally believe it did in every aspect of my life.
Even with my parents. I remember I built this barrier

(04:27):
and communicating with them. I was trying to push my
my own family away because I didn't want to feel
like I was too attached if they were to turn
their back on me when I came out to them.
So I I didn't share a lot with my parents.
And I also didn't share because I saw them struggling
as well to put food on the table to pay
for our bills, because they were working a day and

(04:49):
night as immigrants in this country to provide for my siblings.
And I I felt stomach ache showing up to school.
I didn't want to be in class because I knew
I was going to get bullied on my peers. It
wasn't a great feeling and I chose to stay home
often so that I wouldn't interact with people in school
or outside of school, because I knew it was going

(05:11):
to put me in the fire zone, that I was
going to be a target to the people around me. Yeah,
I have this image of just walls between you and
your peers at school, walls between you and your own family,
walls within yourself. I grew up with a mother who
worked really really hard to make the road a bit

(05:33):
smoother from me, and I can identify with withholding some
of my own needs so as not to be a burden. Definitely,
So I really I really connect with that. That said,
how did your parents react when you remove that wall
and revealed that part of yourself to them? Honestly, it
took me a while to do so. I was in

(05:55):
high school, I think, when I had built up the
courage to do so, I just didn't want to feel
a lot of their disappointment. Thankfully, when I did come
out to them, they were really accepting and embracing. My
dad had a couple of questions to try and understand,
but he is the sweetest man, and he's supportive of me,

(06:16):
and he's proud, and I'm proud to just be able
to have this relationship with them. And I also recognized
that my story isn't the same story of every other
lgbt Q plus person, and that people are at times
kicked out of their homes and face many more barriers
when coming out. What were some of the spaces where

(06:37):
you started to feel more comfortable connecting with this part
of your identity and starting this healing process for you? Who?
Who did help you? Who did you run to first? Yeah? Honestly,
when I was going through it, when I was deep,
like in the dark, I did not know where to go,
and that is why I got into advocacy. I found

(06:58):
an opportunity to join a youth council locally at a
nonprofit here in my town, and I started doing a
lot of volunteer work, a lot of community service. You
joined a youth council in your town? How old were you?
I was thirteen when I started. Just doing that community
service was really beneficial to my own mental health at

(07:18):
the time in your life where you didn't necessarily feel
fully supported. Based on the timeline you shared, you end
up volunteering to try to support others. Talk to me
a little bit more about that that may not be
obvious to a lot of people. Yeah, for me, that
moment was about me feeling like I didn't belong in

(07:39):
the community and wanting to feel like I belonged in
the community, and joining that youth council was the opportunity
for me to belong in the community by trying to
have a positive impact with other people because I knew
that we were all in that council with one purpose,
and it was to support one another and support the
other youth in our community. I want to talk about

(08:00):
the roller culture in supporting the LGBTQ community. You said
it was some of the lyrics and Lady Gaga is
Born this Way that really helped you be your true self.
What was it about that music, those lyrics that resonated
so deeply with you. Yeah, I think with Gaga. I

(08:22):
I always liked her performance art. But that album came
out in middle school at a point where I was
really struggling with my mental health. I had a lot
of suicidal thoughts and feelings at the time because I
was being bullied almost every day in school, and when
that song came out, it just kind of reaffirmed that
it was okay to be myself. And in this small

(08:42):
town that I live, and there wasn't a lot of
lgbt Q plose folks, and there wasn't that representation, and
that was really isolating. But when I see and hear
music with these lyrics of you being beautiful in your
way and that doesn't matter if you're gay, it really
spoke to me that point, and it gave me kind
of that light amidst all the darkness that I was

(09:04):
surrounded by someone seemingly so far away, you know, connected
so closely to you in and broke through some of
those walls. You had a rector to protect yourself. M h.
How did you end up hearing that song and then
I'm reading about you as co author of a book
with Lady Gaga? How did that begin? I was looking

(09:28):
for every opportunity to stay involved in community work, and
I saw an opportunity to join Channel Kindness, which is
Lady Gaga's extension of her Born This Way Foundation, and
that we're looking for an inaugural cohort for this new
platform about storytelling and kindness and community, and I applied.

(09:48):
In my head, I was like, there's no way they're
going to choose me. You know, in Woodland, like a
small town, like it's just not gonna work out, but
I'm just gonna take the risk, and I applied into
my surprise, I was accepted, and years later I wrote
a story for the Platform about my journey and drafting
a historic lgbt Q plus proclamation for my hometown that

(10:11):
made history. Tell me about that proclamation. What is the
proclamation that you wrote? Yeah, so, prior to moving to
San Francisco, where I pursued my higher education, I wanted
to address the lgbt Q plus community here in Woodland
where I grew up because I didn't have that message
of acceptance or belonging, and I wanted to change that

(10:33):
for the young people that were going to be growing
up here. So I emailed the city manager at the
time and I was like, how can we get the
city council to proclaim June as Pride Month? And they said,
what we need language for a proclamation, and I was
I had just turned twenty one at the time, and
I had no clue about any language for a proclamation.

(10:56):
So I stayed up all night kind of figuring stuff out,
looking at things from the Internet, and I did it,
and I emailed it to them and they took it
up to their study Hall meeting and I went to
speak during public comment and all of the people opposing it,
and it passed unanimously for the first time in the
town's history. Wow, what did it feel like to hear

(11:21):
that opposition and to have the proclamation ultimately passed. Yeah.
I think curing the opposition was something that I knew
was going to happen, just because of the things that
I had undergone in this town. And to my surprise,
there was also a lot of people speaking in favor
of it. It was just so beautiful to see and

(11:42):
I didn't think much of the opposition in that moment.
I was there to do one thing and I wanted
to make sure it got done. And just when it
passed and I saw everybody else like near me, cry
and hug each other and have their like pride flags,
it was just a mom And I think that's still
my favorite moment till this day, of just being able

(12:04):
to do that, because for my inner child, it was
a full circle moment of kind of something that I
was shamed for so much, and now in our present day,
they have like a pride week, a Pride Parade and
it's completely three sixty. That's tremendous. And it's also for
so many folks they get that moment elsewhere and and

(12:26):
so they're accepted in a community they weren't born into.
You got that feeling in your hometown. That's great man,
Thank you. Yeah. You know, I've recently had a conversation
on this podcast with Amanda Ryan Smith. She's at the
Trevor Project running development, and she was telling me how

(12:47):
there are over two d harmful policies targeting LGBTQ folks
proposed this year alone. So you've got this front row
seat with the Commander in chief. I mentioned the White
House and passing earlier, but you were part of the
first ever youth mental health action form at the White House.

(13:09):
What was the purpose of the forum? What was your role?
Give me some deeds? Yeah, So the forum was put
in in partnership with MTV and the White House, and
it brought together thirty young people to create a mental
health campaign that was going to address relevant issues in
our community and are My campaign, along with my team,

(13:31):
was around intersectionality and mental health. How different aspects of
our identity impact our mental health. The way we have
access to care and how we approach mental health support
and care. And we all authority of us created these campaigns,
and we all presented it to a variety of media

(13:52):
and brands so that they could come together to create
and put these campaigns into action along with the government.
I'm you're in like Avengers style scene with you know,
all the Avengers versus like the villains in the various movies,
and and on one side, I see these proposed exclusionary laws,

(14:13):
and on the other I see you, you know, and
I see Lady Gaga, and I see these mental health
advocacy campaigns. Where do you see the field right now?
Do you feel like we're moving in the right direction
in terms of the politics. Does it feel like we're
moving backwards? What's your take? I think it's a mixture
of both. I believe that there is progress that has

(14:35):
definitely been made, and that, you know, just having conversations
around intersectionality and mental health and having more people that
look like society itself being represented and speaking to these
issues has been great. And I think the issue that
we've been encountering is that there has been a lot

(14:55):
of conversations and not enough action and when there's these
policies that are impacting and targeting communities, we are letting
history repeat itself. Maybe not in the same exact way,
but history is repeating itself. And what we need to
do is to ensure that we, yes, are fostering these conversations,

(15:16):
but that we're being intentional and following through with our
actions after I have often thought that history isn't a circle,
but it can feel like a spiral, and we revisit
like similar coordinates, but on kind of a different plane.
So there's these echoes of the past. When you talk
about moving from words to action, you make me think

(15:37):
of what I hear a lot about Generation Z. I
hear that gen Z is done with the status quo,
ready the challenge and fight for issues that matter to
them most and act and not just talk. Do you
think that's true, And as so, what do you see
in terms of those actions that are different among gen
Z versus other generations. I think it's definitely true. I

(16:00):
think in comparison to other generations, the majority of gen
Z is advocating and they're pushing their thoughts beliefs out there,
whether it's through social media or locally with their community.
And I think that's great. And I think just this
that we have about the youth mental health crisis. I
know the Surgeon General put out a mental health crisis

(16:22):
statement late last year. There needs to be proactive measures
at all levels to ensure that young people and everybody
in general have support before them reaching a crisis point.
For so long people have reached the crisis and it
is not until then that they receive support, and we
need to change that. We need to make sure people

(16:43):
are getting support early on so that they don't have
to go into a crisis. Yeah, it feels like we
can't talk about lgbt Q plus mental health without talking
also about technology. I've been online for a very long
time and seeing some of the best part where folks
who feel isolated, who don't have someone in their town
like them, can find someone in another town like them

(17:06):
and feel less alone. But I've also seen the bullying,
the isolation that the targeted harassment of this community as well.
What would you like to see tech companies do more
of or less to have the role of technology be
more supportive than harmful. You're talking about tech spaces here.

(17:26):
I think making sure that they are ensuring that whether
it's apps or spaces are safe for people that could
look very differently for many members what we've seen these
past years in terms of misinformation of just attacks on communities.
People go sometimes online when they can't find a safe

(17:46):
space in their own communities or at home. So I
think trying to ensure that's done is really important. This
show we like to focus on action. One of our
hashtact is action meets Impact. Can you tell us about
some of the action you're up to now, particularly with
this concept of a warm line as opposed to a

(18:07):
hotline at the cow Hope Warm Line. So I work
as a regional manager for the cow Hope Wormline, and
a worm line is meant to be a phone line
where people are able to call it in and get
support prior to them being in a crisis. So unlike
a crisis line, when people call wormline, they're going to
be connected to a peer counselor someone who's been there
before and who understand what it's like to struggle. And

(18:29):
our peer counselors they come from all different backgrounds and
they have different experience in the mental health field, and
when people call in, they're able to have an honest
conversation about how they're feeling. And people like this approach
because unlike the clinical field, there isn't a hierarchy. They're
able to talk to and with one another rather than

(18:51):
out one another where you're just sharing, sharing, sharing and
getting nothing back. And they are also connected to resources,
whether it's a source of a peer support program or
group in their community where they're able to go in person,
or they're connected to how to find a therapist in
their communities. So that's our approach at the warm Lane,

(19:13):
and it's very real around the nation, and a lot
of people don't know about that. And I think just
the more we're able to raise awareness because sometimes people
can't get a therapy appointment because of insurance or because
of long wait times. So the more we can use
resources that are accessible to us, better we can ensure
that people don't have to wait to reach a crisis point. Yeah.

(19:36):
I love that kind of preemptive, preventive position. I also
like this idea that you know, I've I've talked with
therapists before in my life, and that can be a
pretty q and a focus kind of extractive, like tell
me about your traumas as opposed to the way you
described a peer who's been through some version of this,
and there's more of an exchange there. How long have

(19:59):
you been in this role. I started working at the
warm Line in I started off as a coordinator, than
assistant manager and the regional manager for the line. But
what I've seen throughout it has been really incredible because
there's people who reach out for the first time for
mental health support. People who share how they never wanted

(20:19):
or could acknowledge in their household that they were struggling
mentally and now they're fifty calling the warm Line talking
about their struggles for the very first time. Yeah. When
you hear that story, how does that make you feel?
You know, it gives validation to the work, and it
continues pushing me and the counters who are answering the

(20:40):
phones through because this work can be heavy and it
can be exhausting emotionally, as is advocacy. So when you
hear these stories, you are reminded of your why and
why you get into this work is because of that
passion and purpose to support the community, and those stories

(21:01):
are that they are very much the purpose of why
we do this work. Yeah, that's great, It's like fuel.
Definitely is in a world filled with such literally devastating
news every day. This is a great reminder there's a
warmline you can call that, there's kindness that you can

(21:22):
channel and be inspired by or contribute to yourself. How
do you manage your own mental health today? And it
sounds like you've been on quite a journey from that
two year old who showed up in Woodland and a
couple of decades ago. What are your tools now? How
do you assess where you're at? How do you manage well?

(21:42):
One of my biggest tools now, it's just being honest
and open, both about my struggles and how I'm feeling.
I think that has changed my life tremendously compared to
where I was in middle school, where I repressed everything
and where I felt shameful almost every part of my being.
I now feel very proud of who I am, and
I feel like I'm able to share how I'm feeling

(22:04):
with my family openly. I set boundaries. I take care
of my own mental health. I try and move my
body every morning at five am. I tray and exercise.
I also have my own support groups, peer support therapy.
All of those things work for me. What's one thing
you want someone listening to this conversation to be sure

(22:26):
they take away I want people to not feel broken
for being who they are. I think our society is
the one that's broken, and we are at times made
to feel shame or broken for being ourselves, and that
should never be the case. We should be proud of
who we are and we should embrace our light. That

(22:47):
is what makes us who we are, that is what
makes us unique, that is what makes us want to live.
And if we are feeling broken and we're repressing who
we are, we are not living life. We are alive,
and we cannot just be alive. We need to live.
That's about everything right there. We have to live, not

(23:09):
just be alive. What's one thing you want people listening
to this conversation to do. I want people listening to
this conversation to reach out for support when they're struggling,
and to support those around them if they have the capacity.
I think that's really important. And when we do that,
we create a ripple effect. We impact ourselves positively, and

(23:32):
we impact those around us to do the same with
our peers and with the folks around them. M mmm mmmmm.
It's almost like we become a kind of force multiplier
on exactly. I have so much respect for you. I'm

(23:56):
so grateful for what you're doing in the world, the ripples,
your cre aiding. I think what stands out to me
is when you said, if you have the capacity offering
support to a lot of us going through whatever we're
going through, we can get stuck in our own and
think of any extra effort as extra, right. It's like

(24:16):
outside of ourselves. But sometimes we need to get outside
of ourselves to find ourselves. And it seems to be
a part of your journey. You know, as you were
needing support, you were also offering it, and so you
became that and with a community, you know, found that
for yourself. Why is there anything else you want to add? Now?
Just thank you again for having me on here and

(24:39):
for having this conversation, and to again to folks out there,
reach out for support if you need it, and take
people up into your head and show them how you're feeling.
Thank you. One a costa. Thank you. You're listening to

(25:05):
a podcast called Force Multiplier, Action meets Impact. Now. I'm
sure you've grown to expect ads baked into your podcast,
but we're gonna do something a little different to walk
the walk. We've donated our ad space to the organizations
that need it, most organizations directly tackling today's greatest challenges.

(25:25):
Be right back. The biggest threat to global health isn't
a virus, it's injustice. The same scenario the ones denied
life saving HIV medication to the world's poorest countries is
now on repeat with access to COVID relief, we must
act now to get doctors and nurses on the front
lines to help they need to save lives. Join read

(25:47):
and learn how every dollar raised for the Global Fund
results in thirty one dollars in health gains and economic returns.
Visit red dot org for the many ways your money
and support can become a force multiplier in the fight
against pandemics. Hey, I'm still Baritune Day, your host for
Force Multiplier, but I'm checking in with you with a
little different energy, because if you're listening, you like the show,

(26:08):
and if you like the show, you might like my
other show, How to Citizen, where we take citizen as
a verb and find out from people practicing the ways
we can shape our community by showing up, investing in relationships,
understanding power, and valuing our collective selves. Check it out
at how to citizen dot com or wherever you get
your podcast. Yo. I am so impressed by Want, not

(26:37):
just because he's annoyingly accomplished at his young age, but
because he was able to open doors for so many
by figuring out how to be himself. That's a radical
yet simple idea that finding our voice can be one
of the most powerful things we do for ourselves and
for those around us. Our next guest follows a similar path.

(27:01):
Doctor carry Joe's Felix was so inspired by those around
him he decided to get into medicine, where he helps
people in some of the most unpredictable conditions. My name
is Carrie Jos Felix m thirty eight years old. I
was born and raised in eighty the Caribbean. My family

(27:22):
really believed in education, and my mother is a nurse.
And also I have an uncle with a doctor that
we admired lot, so I think I've been very much
influenced by those two people. So I've been working with
Doctor's brothers since two thousand and sixteen, first as a
general surgeon in eighty and then I became the chief

(27:45):
of the surgeons in the Bird Center import winds to
Capital City. So I'm part of this generation of doctors
who actually had to deal with the consequences of the
devasting earthquake in eighty two ten. So I've been pretty

(28:05):
much aware of differences in the global healthcare system in general.
One of the differences is access to care. For example,
the number especially is that we would find in one
hospital in Ottawa that would be more than the world

(28:26):
Central African Republic. For example, there is only one Central
African autopedic surgeon in the world country, and the other
autopedic surgeon who would be working in the country are
the ones bought by the clubs with our borders. So
this is one of the biggest inequities that I can notice.

(28:47):
And also the fact that there is universal have college
in some countries and defeated in that in a lot
of other countries. Dr Felix has traveled the world both
in training and in practice, but nothing actually prepares you
for the stressful situations that pop up without notice. I

(29:08):
spent four months in the Congo las here and when
I arrived in May, I've been there for two weeks.
And then there was that volcanic awersion in Goma, one
of the biggest cities in the Congo. People had to
be evacuated. So I was already there, you know, a

(29:29):
smaller city about seven kilometals from Goma, So there were
like thousands of people on the wards and of course
my team not only had to receive and shutter a
lot of those people, but also we were receiving at
nights ten, fifteen, twenty people involving accidents. So we would

(29:53):
come to the hospital and we would have to do
triage and operate on some patient. So that was one
of those situations. Was a bit like difficult and swears
for so community will come together after crisis to help
and also to take things in their own hands because
the fact that we are here trying to help without

(30:16):
any kind of discrimination, that brings a lot of hope
to them. They feel that they are not all known.
But my biggest investment, I would say it's the local staff,
the local doctors, local nurses, because I do believe that
they're the ones. I mean, if they had means, they
would do more to actually serve the population and help

(30:39):
them talk to us. For all, brothers were begging expertise,
were begging means, medication, experience all of that. So they
are here, they're working with us, we are helping them
to help their own population, and they're learning also, So
that's that was the case in Native for example, I
was part of the international which actually came to help,

(31:02):
and that was a very special experience, and I was
so happy because one of the ancient surgeons who actually
came to help was one of the ones that I trained,
and I was so proud of that. You see, whatever,
He's one of those experiences where actually we've seen what
we've done being replicated to build a community and keep helping.

(31:27):
It's easy to see these crises as far removed from us,
especially when they happened on the other side of the world.
But through his experience, he's learned that sometimes help looks
similar regardless of geography. So right now the needs may
be more in the Middle East and uh in Africa
or Latin America and nowadays Ukraine, but things may happen

(31:52):
everywhere any time in the world, so it's not about them.
It's us. So today's Africa or you friend, but it
can be anyone any time, so we should care a
little bit more. No Man is an island, John Dan
said right, So we have to try to stay from
and see what's going on in the world and try

(32:14):
to see how we can help based on the needs.
And also we have to be culturally sensitive because every
country has their own specificities and we have to be
aware of that. We have to give a hand, but
also respecting the dignity of the people that we're helping,
so people can help in their own ways. There are

(32:35):
people who are willing to give, so I would definitely
encourage people to keep donating, but also volunteer. There are
so many ways to get involved, doats about borders. This
is not just about doctors and nurses. There are a
lot of people with different back ones. No man is

(33:00):
an island. This perfectly sums up how important Dr Felix's
work is not just to the regions he services, but
to the whole world. And I can't help but think
of these local doctors and nurses. He references, those that
do so much despite having so little. We all need
more of that spirit, just a pair of willing hands

(33:23):
that want to help. I don't know about you, but
I have to talking more with Juan and Dr Felix.
I feel like the world is a little bit smaller
and a little bit more compassionate. It's not just because
we're connecting from different parts of the world or across
time zones. I think it's because they give me hope
that the solution can be replicated, just with added sprinkles

(33:45):
of culture and nuance, depending on what community you're serving.
I also love that they both believe we can be
part of the action with more than just our dollars,
because our skills, time, and empathy don't have to begin
and end with medicine. Sometimes, compassion, the ability to listen,
and the willingness to learn is more than enough to help.

(34:24):
Are you feeling inspired and want to check out more
information about the organizations we talked about in this episode.
Learn more about them and how you can support their work.
Go to salesforce dot org slash Force Multiplier. Force Multiplier
is a production of I Heart Radio and Salesforce dot
Org hosted by me Barrettune Day Thurston. It's executive produced

(34:45):
by Elizabeth Stewart, produced by Van Schien, edited and mixed
by James Foster, and written by Yvette Lopez. A special
thanks to our guests Dr Kerry, Joe's Felix and Juan Acosta.
Listen to force multiplier on the I heart rate, your app,
Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. M m

(35:10):
hm