October 10, 2024 • 24 mins
In this episode, we chat with Angela Derrick, former wife of 7M dancer James “B-Dash” Derrick. Angela recounts their initial pairing and eventual marriage within a cult-like environment, sharing the moment she realized she needed to leave. She discusses how her decision led to their divorce and her journey as a single parent. Angela also offers her perspective on the Dancing for the Devil documentary and its unsettling parallels to her own experiences.
Forgive Me For I Have Followed continues the exploration from Netflix’s hit Dancing for the Devil documentary series by delving deeper into the personal stories of those affected by Robert Shinn, Shekinah Church, and 7M Films. We will focus on the experiences of victims and their families, address urgent questions raised in the documentary, and gather insights from former members and dancers. Our goal is to uncover strategies for combating abuse and ensuring that controlling, cult-like communities are held accountable for their actions.
*The following is based on actual events. Certain composite and representative materials and characters have been used for dramatic purposes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Then I told him, you know, you're not going to
see your dad for a while until he's out of
the situation. It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom,
do this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's get
him out of it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jess Cassavetto and I'm Kalia Gray.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Our series explores the story of Robert schin, the LA
based Chakina Church and seven M Films.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This week, we'll be speaking with Angela Morales, former wife
to James B. Dash Derek.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Angela and Vidash were actually involved in an another high
control cult like environment before Chakaina, So today we're going
to be speaking more on their experience in the former church,
their marriage, and what that was like for her leaving
another high control group similar to seven M. I could
feel already that I'm sure this is retriggering almost in
(00:55):
a way, to see all of these things coming out
about her ex husband, the father of her child, and
to hear him going through another situation exactly like the
one that she went through prior.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So now our conversation with Angela, Angela, thank you so
much for being a part of this podcast and sitting
down and chatting with us today. We really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How are you feeling today?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm good today. Tired from working overnight, but I'm good.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Are you a nurse?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Not yet? So I finished school once I passed the
inclex and I'll officially be licensed nurse. Yeah, the school
was the hardest part. So as long as that's done.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
You did the hardest part already. You prepared.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So what prompted you to speak out on social media
when all of this kind of came about?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So when everything first came out, I took some time
to myself. At first, it was really hard to watch
the video about Miranda that her family put out. It
was very similar to the situation that I was in.
I shared it with my family, who was also involved
in the church that I was in, so we kind
of dissected it together, and I don't know, I think
it triggered something in me and I just responded to something,
(02:14):
and I guess people kind of put the pieces together
and figured out who I was. And then I started
talking to Katie without a crystal ball, and so I
kept in contact with her a little bit. But because
Jada was younger. I kind of wanted to stay behind
the scenes at the time because he had an idea,
but there was only so much he could understand.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
At the time. How old is Jayden?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Now he's thirteen? Now he's thirteen?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And Jaden is your son? Yeah, So can you tell
us a little bit about your past and the experience?
So why watching that Instagram live with the Wilkings triggered
something for you?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So I went to a church when I was about
fourteen fifteen, and I was there for almost ten years,
and it was pretty much the same thing, just a
different church, different pastor, and it really affected my family
in ways that we're still trying to recover from. So
when I saw how it affected Miranda's family, it really
(03:13):
pushed something inside me.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Right, how did you initially meet James.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I went to the church when I was really young,
and the pastor had this thing where he took in
all the young mostly women, and try to mentor them,
and that's what he did with me. He wanted to
mentor me. I was really shy and I was really
intimidated for some reason by older men. But he told
my mom that God told him he had to be
(03:40):
my mentor, so I had to hang out with him
one on one so many different times. I was so uncomfortable,
so many inappropriate things that I look back and I'm like, hey,
that wasn't right. First of all, all the pump dancers
went there. It was full of dancers and everything, so
there were other guys that were interested, but he made
sure to keep everyone away. But there was one instance
where we're alone and he said, you know, would you
ever date me? Or do you think I'm too old?
(04:02):
And I just looked disgusted. I was like, oh, you're
too old. And after that he kind of just like okay,
pushed me on to James. When I look back, I
think the guys were like competition to him in a
way because all the girls liked the dancers, so he
set a lot of them up. Like a lot of
the dancers at the time were married. There was a
group of wives with the group of comp dancers. So
after I kind of said that I wasn't interested in
(04:24):
the pastor, I was set up with James, and God
said that was my husband and I had to be
with him or my life would be cursed. Wow. So
that's how that started.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What was the church called if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So his mom and his stepdad had the church and
for them it was Hospitality Church of God in Christ.
But through that he ran his own little services under
PhD ministries. So I was kind of leaked together, but
he was in charge of the PhD ministry, didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
He get arrested and then he started a new church
in California. He had had a church in high controlled
group somewhere else, was arrested and then came here and
started PhD.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So he started an organ. It wasn't until we left
the church that we found out he was a registered
sex offender. And my mom had to go back and
forth from organ to get the actual court records, and
it was a really hard process. The only thing we
were able to do was to get him registered in
California as well. Now he's no longer registered. I don't
know if there's an expiration or I don't know how
(05:25):
that works. Whatever happened happened in Orgon. It was so
long ago, and I remember we were in court because
they were trying to sue us for a defamation of character.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Oh my goodness, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Came up that he was a registered sex offender, and
she said, well it was an Oregon and not here.
And I just looked at her and I said, there
are children in that church and so many women, and
you are okay with this as a woman of God,
Like what is wrong with you? So it was common
knowledge to his family, and a lot of his family
were there. They just never said.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Anything hearing even just you recounted how many like similarities
there are, even just like saying, oh, there's like the
group of wives that were with the Crumpers even in Chicaina,
Like we had the joke of oh, we're the crump
wives like with me and like the girls like and
so we're like, oh crumb wives, Like we had our
own intro and everything. And so it's just crazy how
it just sounds like history repeating itself. People being hurt,
(06:15):
families being hurt. And I'm so sorry for everything that
you had to go through, because especially at a young age,
when those are like your formidable years, when you're just
learning about the world and what things that we think
are like normal because we're we don't know any better,
we're so young, And then you get older and you
look back and you're like, wait, that was not how
that was supposed to go. So tell me more about
(06:39):
your relationship with James, Like when you guys were first
paired together, what was it like being with him in
that environment?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So me and James did not match at all. Yeah,
but because you know, God said we have to be together. Supposedly,
we're really genuinely trying to go by the Bible. We
studied it all the time. Yeah, So when we found
out we were for each other, we kind of just
dated like everyone else was dating at the church at
the time, so it wasn't anything out of the ordinary.
(07:08):
And then I remember we did break up once and
the pastor made a big deal about it in service,
saying that, you know, if we don't listen to God,
we're going to be cursed forever because there's only one
person in the whole world for you. And so we
ended up getting back together and we got married. Everything
on the church was so towards the wives. You had
to learn how to be a good wife, You had
(07:30):
to submit to your husband, you had to submit to
the pastor. Everything was so focused on that, And now
that I look back, it's because he was dating multiple
people in the church. So that was our life James
had the last say. He listened to everything that the
pastor said. Now, anybody that knows James, he's not a
bad guy. It's just he will follow blindly. If he
thinks somebody is speaking for God and there's no telling
(07:52):
him different, he will go with it no matter what
anyone else says. So that's how it was at the church.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah, that's something that Kevin has said about too, is
that he really loves God. And I think people who
have ulterior motives they'll jump on that easily because you
can see how devoted he is to God, to his
religion in general. But how long were you guys together?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Almost seven years? We were married for almost three of them.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
When did you guys take the relationship to the next
level and you decided that you wanted to have a kid?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
We never even talked about It's just the next step.
A lot of the Crump wifes got pregnant the same time,
so all of our sons are around the same age.
But it was just the next thing to do, I guess.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
So when did you and Bidash separate?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It was a little after Jaden turned one. Jada was
actually the reason I left. I always say that he's
the child that saved me, and then my daughter is
the child I never got to me. So we're very close.
So they both saved me in different ways.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I feel like that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Angela. This
is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Angela. To jump back a
little bit, Angela, you mentioned that you guys had separated
about a year after Jaden was born. How did that happen,
What was the separation like, and when did you decide
to leave that church?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, so there was one service. Jada was a newborn.
We were still in service till three or four in
the morning. So he started crying. I got up to
take him to the restroom. I was like one or
two in the morning, and I fed him and I
came back into the church, and right away, the pastor,
I don't even like calling him a pastor. Right away
he called me out in front of everybody and said
that my son had a demon in him because he
(09:44):
made me miss an important part of service. And everybody
just gave me such judgmental looks and started saying I
was a bad mom, and I was like, that was
the last straw, Like I was the first chid of
my family to leave the church, and I turned into
the devil. James wanted to divorce me. I did not care.
I left the church and my marriage the same week,
and you know, family that were going to the church,
(10:05):
A lot of people didn't understand. I've always known a
lot about the pastor because I was very close to
people that were involved with him, so I knew very
intimate details about him, even down to his bedroom looked like.
So once I left and stopped going, I was able
to start piecing things together. Well you know, hey, that's
not right. That's not right either. So I started speaking
(10:25):
up about it. And there were a couple of friends.
I don't know if you guys have heard of Tonica
and her sisters, So that was Chess's ex wife. We
were very close, and I remember going to dinner one
time and they said a story that matched something that
I knew about the pastor, and I was like, wait,
you guys know, and we let everything out. We're at
(10:46):
dinner for my birthday that night, and we talked for hours,
We cried, We let everything out. I went home that
night and I told my mom everything. I had years
worth of things that I was bottled up, and the
only person that knew was James, so he also knew
all these details. But his reaction to everything was, oh, well,
you know, he's still a man, so he's not perfect,
but because he's a prophet and amount of God, we're
(11:08):
just going to overlook it and forgive him. And I
was the one always questioning everything, like, hey, that's not right.
I'm gonna go tell him something. I'm really upset, and
everybody always stopped me, like, no, don't say anything. He's
still a man of God. You're going to be cursed
if you speak up. But once I left, and once
it started involving my son, I was that's it, and
so I left. I started speaking up. Once my mom
(11:29):
found out, we tried to go to the head pastor
and everything blew up from there. Everything went crazy for
a couple of years. They tried to sue us. It
turned into a crazy couple year experience going through court
trying to get people fired from their jobs, and that's
when all the dancers left. Half of the church stayed
and half left. The half that left were the dancers
(11:50):
and then the crump wives. But a couple of years
later another group left and they came back and apologized,
and it was just a really long, crazy ending to the.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Experience, Angela, do you mind if I asked, just to
the level that you're comfortable, what was it the stories
that were sure that you found out that wasn't right?
Like what was the light bulb moment?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It was about women, just the pastor and he was
involved with so many women there, and there was a
lot of questionable things he was doing, but nobody questioned
them saying they was chakaina, not to the extent. I
don't think people were making as much money there. But
he was in control of finances. He was in control
of every aspect of people's lives that you couldn't make
(12:31):
decisions without him, right. He would have people write journals
of all their sexual experiences and have them read it
to him, and because that's them letting it go and
healing from it, or God won't forgive them unless they
did that. There was so many things.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, you know, I think, what's a
little bit disappointing and disheartening is the fact that you know,
hearing you say that James did know about a lot
of things. It's hard because he's obviously like going into this,
like really truly believing, And then there's a little bit
like obviously, like I believe he's being manipulated my own
personal opinion, but it's not with malice. The intention feels right,
(13:13):
but it feels just so naive that like he would
have experienced this with you, yes, knows that there's something
that was wrong and said, oh, well, we have to
forgive him because he's a man. Then it gets revealed
and he's a part of this community, and this conversation
of a public apology to then go right back into
a situation like that, how was that when you had
(13:35):
seen that he was remarried. Did that all just bring
back what you experienced in the church.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
He actually announced that on Instagram on Jaden's birthday, and
Jaden was so upset. He was so hurt, first of
all because his dad didn't tell him, didn't invite him,
and his dad didn't even call to say happy birthday.
At that time, he was having a very hard time
not having his dad around. He would have breakdowns all
the time and cry hysterically. And when he saw that,
(14:02):
he just broke down. He was so upset. But I
didn't know about the church yet. I didn't know about
the situation, so I was just upset of him being
a bad father. And I used to make excuses for
James all the time, like, you know, everybody has to
go through their own healing process from what we went through.
And I gave him passes and excuses like, Okay, you
know he needs to heal that. I'll give him a
(14:23):
pass for not being a good dad. But once it
got years later, I'm like, you don't get a pass anymore.
My son is hurting, And I said, you know what,
You're going to call your dad. He's like, no, Mom,
I don't want him to hear me crying. I said, no,
it's time. You're going to call him and let him
hear how hurt you are, so maybe he can change.
And he called his dad and he was crying hysterically,
and I heard people in the background. I don't know
who was there, but James made light of the situation,
(14:46):
basically saying it wasn't a big deal that Janea shouldn't
feel that way, and I lost it. I took the
phone away and I went off on James and I said,
you know, you're not going to make my son feel
that way. If you want to go biblical. My dad's
a pastor, I was in the same church. I can
throw s pictures at you. You're wrong, Like, I don't
care how you want to spin this. If you want
to go by the godly way, the biblical way, you're
wrong and you're hurting my son. And if we have
(15:08):
to cut you out completely, that's what we're gonna do.
But you're not going to continue hurting him. And James
just kind of like laughed at it, and I hung
up the phone after that, And I think James didn't
try becoming more involved with Jaden until all this came out.
It's just a bad dad, unfortunately. Yeah. I always say
he's a good guy, so it's really unfortunate. But yeah,
(15:30):
just the reality.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm so sorry. When we returned the conclusion of our
conversation with Angela, this is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Here
is the conclusion of our conversation with Angela.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
So how are you guys today? Like, have you heard
from him, Does he speak to you or his son?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well, right now, Jaden's one is broken, so I've kind
of just left it. I loved Jayden not having a phone,
but I was very confused when everything first started coming
out a couple years ago before the documentary, when it
came out online and James wanted to see Jayden more often.
I was so confused on how to handle it because
I didn't want to keep my son from his relationship
with his dad, but I needed strong boundaries to be
(16:18):
put down. So I told James, like, he is not
allowed to step foot in the church, He's not allowed
to be around anybody in the church. Jaden had his phone.
I had his location on at all times. Because James
never communicated with me once he started going to the church,
he would communicate through Jaden. He never sent me his
home address. He never let me know what was going on.
So I made sure if my son's going, I'm gonna
(16:39):
know myself. Then I had his home address. Because I
had Jayden's location, I knew where they were going while
they were together, whether they were at the church or
the movies, because I had Jaden's location. But everything was
communicated through Jaden. So at the time I still let
them have a relationship. James didn't see him very often.
But after everything came out with the documentary and they
started saying they didn't feel safe, they're being followed. I
(17:00):
told James, no, he's not going, Like, if you want
to see him, you can come to us. I'm not
going to stop your relationship, but he is not going
with you, especially not after all this. And had I
said that a couple of years ago, Jaden would have
been so upset and started blaming me for not having
a relationship with his dad. But he's seen the documentary
and he knows what's going on, so he understands. And
I told him, you know, you're not going to see
(17:21):
your dad for a while until he's out of the situation.
It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom, do
this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's hope him
and Miranda hear it. Let's get him out of it.
But he understands he's not going to go see his dad,
and he's fine with it for now.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Shout out to Jaden for being a total I was
going to say badass. Sorry, I guess right, He's a teenager,
I could say that, and to see where you're at today,
I mean, how's your healing journey? Ben?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Since I left the church and left James, I became
a single mom, so it was always survival mode, go go, go,
Like I didn't have time to sit and process. I
had to be strong and just move on with life,
which is really hard because when you leave a call,
your mind needs to be rewired. You're getting introduced to
so many Like I didn't have my first alcoholic drink
until I left the church. I did not go out
(18:11):
with friends to a bar. Just tiny little things that
people experience when they're younger. I was doing for the
first time in mid twenties. Even still, there's a lot
I haven't experienced. But I think until all of this
came out, that's when I started more okay, you know,
I went through this and it's okay and it's time
to face it. And when I came to Washington for
the first couple of months, I had a lot of downtime,
(18:33):
like looking for a job and everything, and we kind
of used it as a little vacation to start. But
I don't know how I feel about God, to be honest,
So I always say God or the universe, whoever took
it as like, Okay, it's your time to start dealing
with all your trauma and all your past. So these
last couple months, I really am learning to be okay
with what I went through. I think I've tried my
best to heal certain parts. Even still, like something bad
(18:55):
happens in my life, I'm like, oh my God, I'm
cursed the pastor cursed me. I need to pray to God.
And I'm like, wait, nope, that's not true. It's just
bad things happen sometimes, and that's okay. So I think
I'm finally to a point where I'm okay talking about it.
I'm okay saying, you know, it happened, and it's nothing
to be ashamed of, it's nothing to be embarrassed about.
But that's been very recent over the last couple of years,
(19:16):
and I've been out for so long. I think I
just didn't deal with it. I didn't have the time
the mental space. I always had to take care of
my kids and be a mom.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It really does touch my heart that he wanted you
to do this today. So hopefully he can get through
to his dad and to Miranda. Is there anything that
you would want to say if they are listening.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mostly to Miranda. I want her to remember the people
that love her, like it's so easy to forget when
you're in there and you're told, you know, if they're
not part of the churches, I don't believe they're not
your family. They don't exist anymore. And I really hope
she remembers that everything that was done was out of love.
And I know when she leaves, she will see that.
I didn't see that until after I left, but I
hope that's something that can be remembered. And I hope
(19:58):
James can leave and have a relationship with the son
before it's too late, before Jayden's not willing to have
one with him anymore. Jayden's sorry. Jaden's an amazing kid.
He's still amazing, and he's so much like his dad.
He's his twin. Sometimes he says things and I'm like,
oh my god, that's James, Like he's so much like
(20:18):
his dad. And they don't really have a relationship. And
you know, it started when Jayda was three. All he
wanted was the dad. Mom. Can you find someone to
be my dad? Mom? You know, please? I really want
a dad and James can fill that void that Jayden has,
Like James is the only one that can do it.
He's the only one, and I wish I could say
(20:39):
my love is enough. There's one time I told Jaden,
you know what, I'll be your dad. What do you
want a dad for? And he said, well, I want
to know how to work on cars. And I said, well,
I'm going to learn, I'll go on YouTube. He goes, well,
I want to play basketball. I said, I'm going to
go start practicing. And I said, you want to call
me dad, call me dad, and we both just started
laughing But I know it's something that I can't fill
(21:00):
no matter how hard I try. Only James can do it.
I know if they had a relationship, they would be
so close. There's so much light. So I really do
hope for Jaden's sake, he loves Miranda too. I hope
for Jayden's sake they both leave. They both see that
there's a child looking up to them that really just
wants to be part of their lives. So, I mean,
we do have hopes that they leave, and you know,
(21:21):
one day it can happen, and I believe it will,
hopefully sooner than later.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Us too, us too, Angela, you are really strong your
son he is an amazing kid. I can't tell I
know he means the world to you and he deserves
to have that in his life.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Do you have any advice to someone who's experiencing a
situation either both being in a situation like this and
getting out and then also being on the outside for
family members that are looking at their loved ones that
are still in.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
It's really hard. If someone's it's so rooted in a cult,
there's not much you can say. But if there are
people that are having thoughts, like hey, you know, questioning things,
It's not okay for someone to tell you what you
can do at all times, how to spend your money,
control every aspect of your life. It's not normal, whether
they're godly or not. And I don't believe God won't
(22:19):
want anyone to let go with their family like that's
the first red flag. So if people are in there
and they're questioning, don't stop questioning. Don't be afraid to leave,
and don't be afraid to leave on your own. It's
very scary, but it's the best thing you can do
for yourself in your future and for the family members
on the outside, don't stop reaching out, don't stop showing love,
don't keep quiet, like all that stuff matters. And in
(22:41):
the decision of leaving, it really helps knowing that they
can leave and have somewhere to go to, because it's
scary you come out to nothing, and knowing that they
have people that love them and that care about them
and are willing to fight for them non stop, it
really does make a difference.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Amazing, Angela, you are an incredible woman. Thank you so
much for doing this and sharing your experience and your
call out. Again, just nothing but love to you and
Jaden and your family. So yeah, thank you. We really
really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We want to thank Angela for today's conversation, and we
want to thank Jane Did for his encouragement. We appreciate
her insight and transparency, and we wish her all the
best on her healing journey.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
This has been Forgive Me For I Have Followed.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
We'll be back next week.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
A production from wv Sound Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael
Tore podcast network, hosted by me Khalia Gray and Me
jessicasobetto Forgive Me For I Have Followed is produced by
Aaron Burlson and Sophie Spencer's zabos Our.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Executive producers are Khalia Gray myself, Wilmar Balderama, Leo Clem,
and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
See you next week, See you next week,
Then I told him, you know, you're not going to
see your dad for a while until he's out of
the situation. It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom,
do this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's get
him out of it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jess Cassavetto and I'm Kalia Gray.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Our series explores the story of Robert schin, the LA
based Chakina Church and seven M Films.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
This week, we'll be speaking with Angela Morales, former wife
to James B. Dash Derek.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Angela and Vidash were actually involved in an another high
control cult like environment before Chakaina, So today we're going
to be speaking more on their experience in the former church,
their marriage, and what that was like for her leaving
another high control group similar to seven M. I could
feel already that I'm sure this is retriggering almost in
(00:55):
a way, to see all of these things coming out
about her ex husband, the father of her child, and
to hear him going through another situation exactly like the
one that she went through prior.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So now our conversation with Angela, Angela, thank you so
much for being a part of this podcast and sitting
down and chatting with us today. We really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Oh, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How are you feeling today?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm good today. Tired from working overnight, but I'm good.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Are you a nurse?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Not yet? So I finished school once I passed the
inclex and I'll officially be licensed nurse. Yeah, the school
was the hardest part. So as long as that's done.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
You did the hardest part already. You prepared.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So what prompted you to speak out on social media
when all of this kind of came about?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So when everything first came out, I took some time
to myself. At first, it was really hard to watch
the video about Miranda that her family put out. It
was very similar to the situation that I was in.
I shared it with my family, who was also involved
in the church that I was in, so we kind
of dissected it together, and I don't know, I think
it triggered something in me and I just responded to something,
(02:14):
and I guess people kind of put the pieces together
and figured out who I was. And then I started
talking to Katie without a crystal ball, and so I
kept in contact with her a little bit. But because
Jada was younger. I kind of wanted to stay behind
the scenes at the time because he had an idea,
but there was only so much he could understand.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
At the time. How old is Jayden?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Now he's thirteen? Now he's thirteen?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And Jaden is your son? Yeah, So can you tell
us a little bit about your past and the experience?
So why watching that Instagram live with the Wilkings triggered
something for you?
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So I went to a church when I was about
fourteen fifteen, and I was there for almost ten years,
and it was pretty much the same thing, just a
different church, different pastor, and it really affected my family
in ways that we're still trying to recover from. So
when I saw how it affected Miranda's family, it really
(03:13):
pushed something inside me.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Right, how did you initially meet James.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I went to the church when I was really young,
and the pastor had this thing where he took in
all the young mostly women, and try to mentor them,
and that's what he did with me. He wanted to
mentor me. I was really shy and I was really
intimidated for some reason by older men. But he told
my mom that God told him he had to be
(03:40):
my mentor, so I had to hang out with him
one on one so many different times. I was so uncomfortable,
so many inappropriate things that I look back and I'm like, hey,
that wasn't right. First of all, all the pump dancers
went there. It was full of dancers and everything, so
there were other guys that were interested, but he made
sure to keep everyone away. But there was one instance
where we're alone and he said, you know, would you
ever date me? Or do you think I'm too old?
(04:02):
And I just looked disgusted. I was like, oh, you're
too old. And after that he kind of just like okay,
pushed me on to James. When I look back, I
think the guys were like competition to him in a
way because all the girls liked the dancers, so he
set a lot of them up. Like a lot of
the dancers at the time were married. There was a
group of wives with the group of comp dancers. So
after I kind of said that I wasn't interested in
(04:24):
the pastor, I was set up with James, and God
said that was my husband and I had to be
with him or my life would be cursed. Wow. So
that's how that started.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What was the church called if you don't mind me asking.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
So his mom and his stepdad had the church and
for them it was Hospitality Church of God in Christ.
But through that he ran his own little services under
PhD ministries. So I was kind of leaked together, but
he was in charge of the PhD ministry, didn't.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
He get arrested and then he started a new church
in California. He had had a church in high controlled
group somewhere else, was arrested and then came here and
started PhD.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So he started an organ. It wasn't until we left
the church that we found out he was a registered
sex offender. And my mom had to go back and
forth from organ to get the actual court records, and
it was a really hard process. The only thing we
were able to do was to get him registered in
California as well. Now he's no longer registered. I don't
know if there's an expiration or I don't know how
(05:25):
that works. Whatever happened happened in Orgon. It was so
long ago, and I remember we were in court because
they were trying to sue us for a defamation of character.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Oh my goodness, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Came up that he was a registered sex offender, and
she said, well it was an Oregon and not here.
And I just looked at her and I said, there
are children in that church and so many women, and
you are okay with this as a woman of God,
Like what is wrong with you? So it was common
knowledge to his family, and a lot of his family
were there. They just never said.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Anything hearing even just you recounted how many like similarities
there are, even just like saying, oh, there's like the
group of wives that were with the Crumpers even in Chicaina,
Like we had the joke of oh, we're the crump
wives like with me and like the girls like and
so we're like, oh crumb wives, Like we had our
own intro and everything. And so it's just crazy how
it just sounds like history repeating itself. People being hurt,
(06:15):
families being hurt. And I'm so sorry for everything that
you had to go through, because especially at a young age,
when those are like your formidable years, when you're just
learning about the world and what things that we think
are like normal because we're we don't know any better,
we're so young, And then you get older and you
look back and you're like, wait, that was not how
that was supposed to go. So tell me more about
(06:39):
your relationship with James, Like when you guys were first
paired together, what was it like being with him in
that environment?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So me and James did not match at all. Yeah,
but because you know, God said we have to be together. Supposedly,
we're really genuinely trying to go by the Bible. We
studied it all the time. Yeah, So when we found
out we were for each other, we kind of just
dated like everyone else was dating at the church at
the time, so it wasn't anything out of the ordinary.
(07:08):
And then I remember we did break up once and
the pastor made a big deal about it in service,
saying that, you know, if we don't listen to God,
we're going to be cursed forever because there's only one
person in the whole world for you. And so we
ended up getting back together and we got married. Everything
on the church was so towards the wives. You had
to learn how to be a good wife, You had
(07:30):
to submit to your husband, you had to submit to
the pastor. Everything was so focused on that, And now
that I look back, it's because he was dating multiple
people in the church. So that was our life James
had the last say. He listened to everything that the
pastor said. Now, anybody that knows James, he's not a
bad guy. It's just he will follow blindly. If he
thinks somebody is speaking for God and there's no telling
(07:52):
him different, he will go with it no matter what
anyone else says. So that's how it was at the church.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah, that's something that Kevin has said about too, is
that he really loves God. And I think people who
have ulterior motives they'll jump on that easily because you
can see how devoted he is to God, to his
religion in general. But how long were you guys together?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Almost seven years? We were married for almost three of them.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Yeah, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
When did you guys take the relationship to the next
level and you decided that you wanted to have a kid?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
We never even talked about It's just the next step.
A lot of the Crump wifes got pregnant the same time,
so all of our sons are around the same age.
But it was just the next thing to do, I guess.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
So when did you and Bidash separate?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It was a little after Jaden turned one. Jada was
actually the reason I left. I always say that he's
the child that saved me, and then my daughter is
the child I never got to me. So we're very close.
So they both saved me in different ways.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
I feel like that's so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Angela. This
is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Angela. To jump back a
little bit, Angela, you mentioned that you guys had separated
about a year after Jaden was born. How did that happen,
What was the separation like, and when did you decide
to leave that church?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, so there was one service. Jada was a newborn.
We were still in service till three or four in
the morning. So he started crying. I got up to
take him to the restroom. I was like one or
two in the morning, and I fed him and I
came back into the church, and right away, the pastor,
I don't even like calling him a pastor. Right away
he called me out in front of everybody and said
that my son had a demon in him because he
(09:44):
made me miss an important part of service. And everybody
just gave me such judgmental looks and started saying I
was a bad mom, and I was like, that was
the last straw, Like I was the first chid of
my family to leave the church, and I turned into
the devil. James wanted to divorce me. I did not care.
I left the church and my marriage the same week,
and you know, family that were going to the church,
(10:05):
A lot of people didn't understand. I've always known a
lot about the pastor because I was very close to
people that were involved with him, so I knew very
intimate details about him, even down to his bedroom looked like.
So once I left and stopped going, I was able
to start piecing things together. Well you know, hey, that's
not right. That's not right either. So I started speaking
(10:25):
up about it. And there were a couple of friends.
I don't know if you guys have heard of Tonica
and her sisters, So that was Chess's ex wife. We
were very close, and I remember going to dinner one
time and they said a story that matched something that
I knew about the pastor, and I was like, wait,
you guys know, and we let everything out. We're at
(10:46):
dinner for my birthday that night, and we talked for hours,
We cried, We let everything out. I went home that
night and I told my mom everything. I had years
worth of things that I was bottled up, and the
only person that knew was James, so he also knew
all these details. But his reaction to everything was, oh, well,
you know, he's still a man, so he's not perfect,
but because he's a prophet and amount of God, we're
(11:08):
just going to overlook it and forgive him. And I
was the one always questioning everything, like, hey, that's not right.
I'm gonna go tell him something. I'm really upset, and
everybody always stopped me, like, no, don't say anything. He's
still a man of God. You're going to be cursed
if you speak up. But once I left, and once
it started involving my son, I was that's it, and
so I left. I started speaking up. Once my mom
(11:29):
found out, we tried to go to the head pastor
and everything blew up from there. Everything went crazy for
a couple of years. They tried to sue us. It
turned into a crazy couple year experience going through court
trying to get people fired from their jobs, and that's
when all the dancers left. Half of the church stayed
and half left. The half that left were the dancers
(11:50):
and then the crump wives. But a couple of years
later another group left and they came back and apologized,
and it was just a really long, crazy ending to the.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Experience, Angela, do you mind if I asked, just to
the level that you're comfortable, what was it the stories
that were sure that you found out that wasn't right?
Like what was the light bulb moment?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
It was about women, just the pastor and he was
involved with so many women there, and there was a
lot of questionable things he was doing, but nobody questioned
them saying they was chakaina, not to the extent. I
don't think people were making as much money there. But
he was in control of finances. He was in control
of every aspect of people's lives that you couldn't make
(12:31):
decisions without him, right. He would have people write journals
of all their sexual experiences and have them read it
to him, and because that's them letting it go and
healing from it, or God won't forgive them unless they
did that. There was so many things.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Oh my gosh, Yeah, you know, I think, what's a
little bit disappointing and disheartening is the fact that you know,
hearing you say that James did know about a lot
of things. It's hard because he's obviously like going into this,
like really truly believing, And then there's a little bit
like obviously, like I believe he's being manipulated my own
personal opinion, but it's not with malice. The intention feels right,
(13:13):
but it feels just so naive that like he would
have experienced this with you, yes, knows that there's something
that was wrong and said, oh, well, we have to
forgive him because he's a man. Then it gets revealed
and he's a part of this community, and this conversation
of a public apology to then go right back into
a situation like that, how was that when you had
(13:35):
seen that he was remarried. Did that all just bring
back what you experienced in the church.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
He actually announced that on Instagram on Jaden's birthday, and
Jaden was so upset. He was so hurt, first of
all because his dad didn't tell him, didn't invite him,
and his dad didn't even call to say happy birthday.
At that time, he was having a very hard time
not having his dad around. He would have breakdowns all
the time and cry hysterically. And when he saw that,
(14:02):
he just broke down. He was so upset. But I
didn't know about the church yet. I didn't know about
the situation, so I was just upset of him being
a bad father. And I used to make excuses for
James all the time, like, you know, everybody has to
go through their own healing process from what we went through.
And I gave him passes and excuses like, Okay, you
know he needs to heal that. I'll give him a
(14:23):
pass for not being a good dad. But once it
got years later, I'm like, you don't get a pass anymore.
My son is hurting, And I said, you know what,
You're going to call your dad. He's like, no, Mom,
I don't want him to hear me crying. I said, no,
it's time. You're going to call him and let him
hear how hurt you are, so maybe he can change.
And he called his dad and he was crying hysterically,
and I heard people in the background. I don't know
who was there, but James made light of the situation,
(14:46):
basically saying it wasn't a big deal that Janea shouldn't
feel that way, and I lost it. I took the
phone away and I went off on James and I said,
you know, you're not going to make my son feel
that way. If you want to go biblical. My dad's
a pastor, I was in the same church. I can
throw s pictures at you. You're wrong, Like, I don't
care how you want to spin this. If you want
to go by the godly way, the biblical way, you're
wrong and you're hurting my son. And if we have
(15:08):
to cut you out completely, that's what we're gonna do.
But you're not going to continue hurting him. And James
just kind of like laughed at it, and I hung
up the phone after that, And I think James didn't
try becoming more involved with Jaden until all this came out.
It's just a bad dad, unfortunately. Yeah. I always say
he's a good guy, so it's really unfortunate. But yeah,
(15:30):
just the reality.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm so sorry. When we returned the conclusion of our
conversation with Angela, this is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Here
is the conclusion of our conversation with Angela.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
So how are you guys today? Like, have you heard
from him, Does he speak to you or his son?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Well, right now, Jaden's one is broken, so I've kind
of just left it. I loved Jayden not having a phone,
but I was very confused when everything first started coming
out a couple years ago before the documentary, when it
came out online and James wanted to see Jayden more often.
I was so confused on how to handle it because
I didn't want to keep my son from his relationship
with his dad, but I needed strong boundaries to be
(16:18):
put down. So I told James, like, he is not
allowed to step foot in the church, He's not allowed
to be around anybody in the church. Jaden had his phone.
I had his location on at all times. Because James
never communicated with me once he started going to the church,
he would communicate through Jaden. He never sent me his
home address. He never let me know what was going on.
So I made sure if my son's going, I'm gonna
(16:39):
know myself. Then I had his home address. Because I
had Jayden's location, I knew where they were going while
they were together, whether they were at the church or
the movies, because I had Jaden's location. But everything was
communicated through Jaden. So at the time I still let
them have a relationship. James didn't see him very often.
But after everything came out with the documentary and they
started saying they didn't feel safe, they're being followed. I
(17:00):
told James, no, he's not going, Like, if you want
to see him, you can come to us. I'm not
going to stop your relationship, but he is not going
with you, especially not after all this. And had I
said that a couple of years ago, Jaden would have
been so upset and started blaming me for not having
a relationship with his dad. But he's seen the documentary
and he knows what's going on, so he understands. And
I told him, you know, you're not going to see
(17:21):
your dad for a while until he's out of the situation.
It's just not healthy. And he said, well, Mom, do
this podcast. Let's hope he hears it. Let's hope him
and Miranda hear it. Let's get him out of it.
But he understands he's not going to go see his dad,
and he's fine with it for now.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Shout out to Jaden for being a total I was
going to say badass. Sorry, I guess right, He's a teenager,
I could say that, and to see where you're at today,
I mean, how's your healing journey? Ben?
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Since I left the church and left James, I became
a single mom, so it was always survival mode, go go, go,
Like I didn't have time to sit and process. I
had to be strong and just move on with life,
which is really hard because when you leave a call,
your mind needs to be rewired. You're getting introduced to
so many Like I didn't have my first alcoholic drink
until I left the church. I did not go out
(18:11):
with friends to a bar. Just tiny little things that
people experience when they're younger. I was doing for the
first time in mid twenties. Even still, there's a lot
I haven't experienced. But I think until all of this
came out, that's when I started more okay, you know,
I went through this and it's okay and it's time
to face it. And when I came to Washington for
the first couple of months, I had a lot of downtime,
(18:33):
like looking for a job and everything, and we kind
of used it as a little vacation to start. But
I don't know how I feel about God, to be honest,
So I always say God or the universe, whoever took
it as like, Okay, it's your time to start dealing
with all your trauma and all your past. So these
last couple months, I really am learning to be okay
with what I went through. I think I've tried my
best to heal certain parts. Even still, like something bad
(18:55):
happens in my life, I'm like, oh my God, I'm
cursed the pastor cursed me. I need to pray to God.
And I'm like, wait, nope, that's not true. It's just
bad things happen sometimes, and that's okay. So I think
I'm finally to a point where I'm okay talking about it.
I'm okay saying, you know, it happened, and it's nothing
to be ashamed of, it's nothing to be embarrassed about.
But that's been very recent over the last couple of years,
(19:16):
and I've been out for so long. I think I
just didn't deal with it. I didn't have the time
the mental space. I always had to take care of
my kids and be a mom.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
It really does touch my heart that he wanted you
to do this today. So hopefully he can get through
to his dad and to Miranda. Is there anything that
you would want to say if they are listening.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mostly to Miranda. I want her to remember the people
that love her, like it's so easy to forget when
you're in there and you're told, you know, if they're
not part of the churches, I don't believe they're not
your family. They don't exist anymore. And I really hope
she remembers that everything that was done was out of love.
And I know when she leaves, she will see that.
I didn't see that until after I left, but I
hope that's something that can be remembered. And I hope
(19:58):
James can leave and have a relationship with the son
before it's too late, before Jayden's not willing to have
one with him anymore. Jayden's sorry. Jaden's an amazing kid.
He's still amazing, and he's so much like his dad.
He's his twin. Sometimes he says things and I'm like,
oh my god, that's James, Like he's so much like
(20:18):
his dad. And they don't really have a relationship. And
you know, it started when Jayda was three. All he
wanted was the dad. Mom. Can you find someone to
be my dad? Mom? You know, please? I really want
a dad and James can fill that void that Jayden has,
Like James is the only one that can do it.
He's the only one, and I wish I could say
(20:39):
my love is enough. There's one time I told Jaden,
you know what, I'll be your dad. What do you
want a dad for? And he said, well, I want
to know how to work on cars. And I said, well,
I'm going to learn, I'll go on YouTube. He goes, well,
I want to play basketball. I said, I'm going to
go start practicing. And I said, you want to call
me dad, call me dad, and we both just started
laughing But I know it's something that I can't fill
(21:00):
no matter how hard I try. Only James can do it.
I know if they had a relationship, they would be
so close. There's so much light. So I really do
hope for Jaden's sake, he loves Miranda too. I hope
for Jayden's sake they both leave. They both see that
there's a child looking up to them that really just
wants to be part of their lives. So, I mean,
we do have hopes that they leave, and you know,
(21:21):
one day it can happen, and I believe it will,
hopefully sooner than later.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
Us too, us too, Angela, you are really strong your
son he is an amazing kid. I can't tell I
know he means the world to you and he deserves
to have that in his life.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, okay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Do you have any advice to someone who's experiencing a
situation either both being in a situation like this and
getting out and then also being on the outside for
family members that are looking at their loved ones that
are still in.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
It's really hard. If someone's it's so rooted in a cult,
there's not much you can say. But if there are
people that are having thoughts, like hey, you know, questioning things,
It's not okay for someone to tell you what you
can do at all times, how to spend your money,
control every aspect of your life. It's not normal, whether
they're godly or not. And I don't believe God won't
(22:19):
want anyone to let go with their family like that's
the first red flag. So if people are in there
and they're questioning, don't stop questioning. Don't be afraid to leave,
and don't be afraid to leave on your own. It's
very scary, but it's the best thing you can do
for yourself in your future and for the family members
on the outside, don't stop reaching out, don't stop showing love,
don't keep quiet, like all that stuff matters. And in
(22:41):
the decision of leaving, it really helps knowing that they
can leave and have somewhere to go to, because it's
scary you come out to nothing, and knowing that they
have people that love them and that care about them
and are willing to fight for them non stop, it
really does make a difference.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Amazing, Angela, you are an incredible woman. Thank you so
much for doing this and sharing your experience and your
call out. Again, just nothing but love to you and
Jaden and your family. So yeah, thank you. We really
really appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
We want to thank Angela for today's conversation, and we
want to thank Jane Did for his encouragement. We appreciate
her insight and transparency, and we wish her all the
best on her healing journey.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
This has been Forgive Me For I Have Followed.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
We'll be back next week.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
A production from wv Sound Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael
Tore podcast network, hosted by me Khalia Gray and Me
jessicasobetto Forgive Me For I Have Followed is produced by
Aaron Burlson and Sophie Spencer's zabos Our.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Executive producers are Khalia Gray myself, Wilmar Balderama, Leo Clem,
and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
See you next week, See you next week,
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Jessica Acevedo
Kailea Gray
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