September 26, 2024 • 31 mins
Aubrey shares his experiences with Shekinah Church and his role in creating content for 7M Films. He reflects on some of the most poignant and unusual moments he encountered at the church. Aubrey also discusses the church's reaction to the Wilking parents' TikTok plea and how his perspective began to shift. Finally, he talks about his experience watching the documentary and the changes in his life since leaving the church.
A content warning: this episode contains explicit language while discussing the use of a discriminatory term. Discretion is advised and you may want to avoid playing this around young listeners.
Forgive Me For I Have Followed continues the exploration from Netflix’s hit Dancing for the Devil documentary series by delving deeper into the personal stories of those affected by Robert Shinn, Shekinah Church, and 7M Films. We will focus on the experiences of victims and their families, address urgent questions raised in the documentary, and gather insights from former members and dancers. Our goal is to uncover strategies for combating abuse and ensuring that controlling, cult-like communities are held accountable for their actions.
*The following is based on actual events. Certain composite and representative materials and characters have been used for dramatic purposes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And I was like, Okay, this is something you hear
that they're not saying, that they don't want to say.
But it's gott He's something very secretive. I was like,
one day I'll know about God. This guy's not secretive.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm Jessicas, the veto executive producer of the hit Netflix
series Dancing for the Devil, the seven.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
M TikTok Cult, and I'm Kalia Gray, former member of
Chakina Church and seven M Films, and welcome back to
Forgive Me for I have followed a series we're embarking
on a gripping journey into the hidden and harrowing truth
behind seven M Films and the Chicaina Church. On today's episode,
we're catching up with one of my good friends, Aubrey.
He's a world renowned dancer with millions of followers across
(00:43):
his socials. Aubrey is a singer, actor, and former Chicaina
member and seven M talent. He was featured prominently in
the doc series and had some revealing things to say
about his experience. In our conversation with Aubrey, we'll explore
all of the alleged manipulative dynamics of seven M management.
Hear about his experiences in Chkina Church and learn how
his life has changed since leaving.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
But first we'll catch up on his recent activities and
get his honest feedback and thoughts of what things were
like after the documentary series came out. Now our conversation
with Aubrey, Well, thank you for coming and doing this
(01:32):
with us.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I'm really happy to see you on the couch sitting
across from me.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Aubrey, How have you been.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I've been good.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Getting ready to release my next single, which is coming
out soon. I also have a video shoot this weekend
for it, so I'm preparing for that right now. What else,
getting ready to work for an artist that I'm choreographing
forward to as well. Yeah, just doing a lot of things,
new things. I'm kind of just starting fresh. But it's
started fresh in a good way.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's really beautiful. I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I'm really happy to hear that you're doing good and
all the things that you've been working on. Like I
see the clips online and you know, since I've moved
out of the area, I just feel like a little
more out of touch, Like I'm like just like I'm
on right, I'm not used to seeing you through a
screen versus like in person getting to ask you like, yeah,
how have you been what are you doing? So I
really appreciate you coming so one just so we could
(02:21):
like get to catch up and also, you know, get
more into how things have been for us, because we
haven't sat and had a conversation since the documentary came out,
So like, how has that been for you? Watching it
yourself after it's out, and like the response from everybody
from it, I.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Would say it was a little overwhelming because we shot
that like two years ago, so like everything has kind
of shift over as far as like my feelings or whatnot.
But the people that are still in there, like our friends.
You know, I still call my brothers and sisters even
though they may not, but you know, it is what
it is. But as far as like the outcome when
the whole release came out.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Some parts I was like so upset. I was mad.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I was like, man, can't believe we really went through
that whole mess. But the outcome of it, I mean,
everybody was, you know, checking up on me and like,
I'm pretty sure it's the same with you and concrete.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
To as well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, a lot of people don't even know about it,
to be honest, right, surprisingly, because when they first came out,
everybody knew about it, like it was like the whole
dance industry.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Outside of the dance industry. I mean, my grandma knew
about it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It was like people outside of life, like the whole
world kind of like knew of it. But then they
didn't really know like about it within details.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So I mean after that Instagram.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Life came then once the documenta came out, and then
they were.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Like, oh, oh, this is what it was. Okay, obviously
it's more to the story. You know, you ain't got
like one tenth of it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the story's still going.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's still going, and it does suck to see our
peoples there, to be honest, but you know, that's just
up to them whether they see it or not. I'm
just glad that the people that are left or doing
their own thing, you know, it's a blessing, you feel
me so absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Have you guys tried to reach out to anyone since
you've left, Like, was there any sort of continued contact?
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Try too, But at the same time, you can tell
the energy is kind of different you know. I spoke
to some of the people, you know, even said happy
birthday to one of them, you know, and it was like, oh,
thank you, bro, appreciate it. But like as far as
like hanging out stuff like that, like there's no way
we're gonna be able to hang out with them, especially
when we first left, Like I saw a few of
them a few times.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Actually, I like some events, and it wasn't like hey, bro,
miss you man, let's let's catch it up. It was
like hi, black boom.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It was that fast, like after all we've been through,
after all we've hung out and done stuff together, went
to movies together, had our long talks together saying what
we're brother this or sister is and that, and it's
just like he's gonna give up just like that.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Okay, it's all good for me.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Like leaving, it was able to Oh so this is
what like people's friends and family were talking about, like
Reno's parents, Randa's parents, like what they were saying back when,
I felt like, oh that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That doesn't sound right.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
It sounds like they're being they're being bearing, overbearing. Okay,
now I understand what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Because I got cold shoulder and that that cold, yes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That decrease in relationship, that distance, And I think I
especially see it through Kevin, because Kevin's been friends with
some of these people since he was a teenager. Yeah,
And so like having someone whom it's like, you're my
brother through time and like through everything to like turn
around and hear like, you're not my brother because you're
attacking us basically, like you said, this has nothing to
(05:22):
do with you. This has to do with the wrongs
that happened against me that need to be corrected.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I think I just kind of want to like take
us back to the beginning when you first were introduced
to Chicaina and seven M and you know what made
you want to like join and be a part of
what they had going on, be a part of their community.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I was first introduced, for one because one of my
friends are in there was good friends with Robert's son,
and you know, they were doing videos a lot, they
were doing content a lot. They're always like hanging out
and they became best friends. And so one story short,
one day, not Robert Son, but one of my other
dance friends, he was you know, mentioning like something from
the word and you know, he was very inspired and
(06:04):
you can tell like he was very uplifted, like he
was like, oh do I learn this? You know, this
is like really good, Like I've heard this from somebody
else in a minute, and like it's so refreshing to hear.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And you know, he started sharing it. I was like, Okay,
this sounds dope. You know, I grew up with in
a Christian home, so like I was like very intrigued.
I was like, okay, dope.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, man, Like I got friends out a Christian you
know that that go to church. You know, I reached
the Bible. All right, cool, this is dope.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So then you know, I'm like, okay, like who is
this guy He's like saying that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know, Robert's the pastor. You know, he's a man
of God and you know he he shares the word.
And I'm like, okay, cool, that's dope. And then they
started going there frequently so that they were like, hey, bro, we.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Had Isaiah's how you come through. I'm like, okay, fine,
I'll come up with the crib.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You know, I hang out with them and blah blah
blah whatever, and I'm chilling. I don't really know Isaiah
like that I just know three mother friends are there.
And then that's when you know, Robert comes down. He's cooking,
and you know, he's asking me questions like oh, okay,
I heard a lot about you, and how many follows
do you have? And you know, she's like, oh, you
gotta you got the same amount of faults as this guy.
And I'm like, yeah, just regud conversation, nothing too crazy.
(07:06):
Then you know, he feeds us. Then after he fees us,
that's when he starts getting into the world. He starts
asking me questions. You know, if you grew up in church,
or you grew up in a Christian family, have you
gone to church recently? Haven't been going to church a lot?
Or like do you know how many times you send
the day? You know, you know the normal question, how.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Many times do you think you sent it?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
How many times you think you sent the day?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What if I told you?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
If I told you?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And then like, you know, I said, I don't know,
maybe once, two, three, four or five times? He said thousands.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
I was like, oh, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
The syntactic.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
According to former Chakina church members, this was a strategy
alleged to be used by Robert to humble potential recruits
and encourage them to reconcile with God.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
This made them eager to join Chicaina. This is like
one of his favorite baits.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Yeah, he's that's what everybody that are new everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And so he's like thousands and he's saying how there's
a whole bunch of things that you can probably not
even know that you're sinning, but you're sending it.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And then he started mentioning about like how many people
do you think I have at my church? And I
was like like one hundred, one hundred and fifty and
he said no, he was like a small number. It's
like twenty thirty forty something like that. And he started
explaining like I don't allow anybody just to come to
my church. He said it depends on how you want it.
(08:26):
And I was like okay. And then he was like,
let's go to revelations and then he's like read this.
The scripture said here a look warm, I'll eat you
up and spit you out. I'm like that makes sense.
I was like okay, I have been, you know, kind
of on it off. And then that's when we started
getting to the word more and it this sounded like
very and drinuing like it sounded really good. I was
just like, okay, like this is something that like I've
(08:48):
really had before as far as like you know, if
someone's breaking down the word like that and whatnot. So
that's why I was like, okay, this is code, and
everybody else is like so like intrigued by it, and
those my friends.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
He's a friend of my friends. So I'm like, I'm
here about somefing Okay, cool, long story short. I slowly
started coming around, but not really.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
But then there's days for like, oh, okay, I'll go
hang out with him, let me learn more.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
And that's when I met Daniel.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Did Daniel invite you to me?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just I just went with my friends. It was just us,
like the dancers and Isaiah, you know, we're all hanging
out whatever. And then that's when he was like, all
we about to leave. We're about to go see Daniel.
He's like, bro, this person, he's so wise, He's got
so much wisdom. Man, How he talks, it's just like
how Robert talks. I was like, Okay, at the time,
we didn't call Robert Robert.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
We call him Doc. So you know, that's when They're like,
come with us, man.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I was like, no, I'm good, I don't want to come.
And then he was like, bro, this might be the
only chance, man, because you may never get an opportunity
like this. I was like all right, I guess and
they're all agreeing to it. They're like yeah, man, like
you bro, please just just come trust this. I was
like all right, I go, you know. And Daniel's cool.
He was like a little younger late thirties, forties, thirty
(10:00):
four years Yeah, very youth ful.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So I was like, okay, dope. Had a meeting outside.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We didn't get too deep with it, but it was
very like casual cool and that was about it, and
then just went home.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
After that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
One of my friends he was explaining how he had
a pain one night and he wasn't able to eat,
he wasn't able to do anything like it got to
the point where like he felt like he had to
go to the hospital. So he was explaining how, yo,
like it's unbelievable, man, Doc dick somebody to me and like, bro,
everybody got in circu they pray over me, and then
my stomach wasn't hurting like I kept hitting it like
(10:33):
I was hitting a hard as I can.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
I was like, I don't feel nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And after that, that's when he was like, yo, like
this is real, Like yo, he's got to be like legit.
So I'm just like, it's got to be something that
I'm missing here. Everybody's like going to this place and
they're getting the word and they're speaking about good things
about this guy. And so I'm like, you know what
I trusted, y'all, I'm gonna start going a lot. And
when I started going even more frequently, then that's when
(10:59):
like I started anymore like in tune with what he
was saying, and like he was saying, how like you know,
not everybody joins my church right away. It depends on
how bad you want it. And so that's when I
was really like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna show him I
want it. That's just how I got brought up to
the whole meaning Robert and all that.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
When did like the seven M get started in the
management side of it? Was that while you were first
joining or was it after you'd been.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Seven M started? So I'll give you a whole breakdown, Okay,
Me and three my other friends were all doing videos
at Hollow Boulevard and we did it for like a
couple hours.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Went back to Robert's house. Everybody's chilling. It's a hot day,
you know, everybody's chilling the house.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Robert comes down, you know, he's talking to everybody. You know,
he's like, hey, how you doing. You know, how's the videos?
Blah blah blah whatever. Then he starts seeing one person
was struggling to do something because he was trying to
get a brand new and he had to get it
fast or else it was too late for him to
get it from what they said, okay. And then my
other friend was also on the computer. He was trying
(12:06):
to get like something from a brando that he worked for,
but it was taken a while for him to get paid.
The only person that had a management was one person.
Everybody else did not have no management. So you know,
Robert of course knew all that, and he was like,
you know what he caught handed down. It's like, Hannah,
we're having a meeting.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, Hannah is Robert's wife.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
She comes down and right before they start the meeting,
I'm like, okay, let me just get out, let me
go leave. This has nothing to do with me, and
he goes, Albret, you can stay here and listen, and
I'm just like.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Okay, sure. I don't know why, but Eric sure.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And he's saying, Okay, we're gonna make a management company
you guys. You know, we're gonna call it seven Them,
and we're gonna make sure you guys get your payments.
You know, we're gonna give all the brand news to
you guys so that where you guys are not struggling
with payment whatever, blah blah blah. And after he finished
saying what he had to say the meeting ended. I
was like, I can I join? He didn't say anything,
walked away. I wanted to be my friend. I was like,
(13:00):
did you hear what he said? I was like no,
he was like what he said before me, it depends
on how you want it. I was like what, Like.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
What is like? What is this thing?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So then I'm like, okay, good things I have for everybody.
They trust this dude. They getting to work, and then
I'm just like okay. And then at this time, that's
when they barely started getting invited to the church. And
it took me about two months to get invited. And yeah,
that's how seven M started pretty much.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
When you did get invited to the church and you
started going to services, then you also got signed to
seven M.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So after I got invited, I will say about a
month or two in of being the church. Mind you,
I was already getting brand deals before I even knew
about Chikina. But the thing about it is that I
was already struggling to keep up with a lot of
things because it was just like, I'm independent, I got
a management, I ain't got no camera, man, I don't
have nobody, So I'm like, I'm scrambling to pitching the
(13:53):
deliverables as much as I can, and I was barely
making it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So if you'd already been getting brand deals and then
you signed into seven M, did you see like a
spike in what was coming in for you at that
time or do you think it was just kind of
a continuation of what you were already building.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It was just a continuation I was already building. It
was helped to learn how to manage as far as like,
are we're going to have you do this, Okay, this
person gonna come and do this for you. You're gonna do
like twenty five videos of this so that we can
cram it all the brand deals that you have to
work on and then you will get it all done
with it one day.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So just being way more efficient.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It was being made way more efficient, time efficient, creative.
I would say that word for sure. But then as
far as like did they help me with them, No,
because I was pretty much building up to that already.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
One thing that just throughout this process for me that
I've heard from a lot of people, whether they be
the dancers or just ex members, was the system that
they created inside Chicaina and seven M was just efficiency
and I think also relinquishing the adulting side of life,
and then also just the organization. They had that so
much in place that it was easy for p people.
(15:00):
Once you kind of give that over, that control gets
handed to somebody else, but then you start to feel
there's a level of ease that.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Comes with that.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
But then from an outsider looking in, you can understand
how that could create so much control on their side
because you've taken away that muscle memory of you know,
paying bills, creating content, that responsibility of having to do
follow ups. But that efficiency works for them, and it
works really well for both the dancers and for people
(15:33):
that were in Chochina.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
And also the amount that they were asked these brand deals.
It was more so them the negotiations of it, all
negotiations stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Obviously, all of you are so incredibly talented, and the
genres that you can dance to are just you're very
versatile in that sense. But there's people that are still
in there that I feel have completely changed their style
of dance. Was that at times like if you wanted
to do a certain style and you weren't able to
because you're limited to a genre of music, did you
(16:04):
find that to be frustrating times at all?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
We can dance in any song we wanted to, But
the content day was more so orchestrated by Robert, So like, Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Do this song? Do this song? I do?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I think it's because me and somebody else has got
instructed to do this one song and it hit like
millions of views, and so Robert was saying, hoghlight. See
when you get instructed by the man of God, you'll
be blessed. So that's when everybody's like, You're like, oh damn,
like they got millions of abusing it. Okay, I guess
we're gonna do Oska music too.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
So that's when it was like, all right, cooler, then
let's do it. We're doing crazy on social media.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, And that's what made it so enticing too.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
When Kevin and I like were visiting La and so,
like we had already seen you guys putting out the
content and getting the brand deals, and you're like, well,
it's been working for a lot of your friends. Like,
let's let's see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Yeah, So we were like, all right, cool. And
it also made it fun too as well, because it
was with people that we already knew.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yeah, friends, So we're just like, this is even better.
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
You're listening to forgive me for I have followed. We'll
be right back, welcome back. We're breaking down Aubrey's experience
with seven M and Chicina. So when did that change?
When did you start to realize that something was off
and it wasn't what you thought it was?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When the services started changing and on different days, it
was less meetings at one point because of the whole
life thing. I grew up on social media with Mary
and his family. After that, life went out a few
services like back to back to back. At one point,
it wasn't about service. It was about backing up on
his side of a story. And then he was making
(17:46):
fun of Katie Joy. And then it was like, are.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
We gonna go to the world? Are you just gonna
Are we gonna just gonna gossip about something?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Don't have a whole sermon for two hours about somebody
else and then make fun of him and call him sandwich.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You started calling Katie Joe.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Yeah, so and it was soundwichy because and then people
thought that was so funny. We're gonna sound like, oh I.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Don't want to I don't want to call her a bitch,
so we're gonna call her a witch. We're gonna color
a sandwich. Bro. Yes, I was like, just color you
want You're already cussing on the.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
He's like, so you will never like, you'll never hear
a passion that cuss. But me, I'm cool one.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
I was like, Ohm, my bro, you ain't black, bro.
But it's not working.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
But oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Anyways, and then wait, what's that about? Hang on? Just
go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
He really there were a lot of times where he
would very much appropriate the culture is the nicest way
I would say it. But do you remember the time
where he went up on the pulpit and said the
N word no, yes, because he's like, I'm like, I
am your love, because like he was, he was just
(19:02):
saying like basically, when you're in the eyes of God,
like you know how he would just always be.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like, I'm I'm the man of God.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I am like Jesus. So if I'm like Jesus, I
have no race.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And if I have no race, I could say the
things I was.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh, I think I'll remember it on because only because
half of the time I just was not paying attention
because the serve would be so freaking long five hours,
six hours, five hours of sermon. Sometimes it'll be like
a longer was I think at one point, was there
until like eleven eleven thirty at night or something like
that when you get home late, like we'll start at
(19:39):
four four pm.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Sting, I'm sweating from all the things.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
I have so many Well, think about we had we
had he would.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Have worship for two hours, like just music playing for
two to three hours and prayer, silent prayer.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, And that's when Kevin would take his naps.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
I was I was taking was taking my nas and
because I guess that's what they did was they were
like you start and praying with them speaking in tongues,
and so you do have like a whole forty five
minutes to hour.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And then most sometimes even on Wednesdays too. Boy, I
was just like, oh man, I'm so tired.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Mind you. We had Sunday service as Monday meetings.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
The guy, I don't know, we'll be at Roberts House
for meetings on Mondays.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh no, that was the Kevin and I weren't invited
to those, remember.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, yeah, later on you guys run invited. Didn't know why.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Actually I never knew why, because Kevin didn't want to
go to one of the meetings because he and I
had like had a disagreement about something. So he was like,
I'm not going to anything, and then that's when we
got disinvited.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then Tuesday you had men's meeting with all the
men's a psalm.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Wednesday you had service. Thursday.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
What was Thursday? I don't think you would have anything
on Thursday. Friday we had a meeting and.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That was the women's meeting. Fridays, but I think we.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Had means at Roberts House Fridays. Saturday we had men's
meeting with Daniel at sam again, then you have service, So.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
We only had one day off the men's meetings versus
the women's meetings. Do you ever feel like you were
missing your partner, because I know when we spoke to Maryland,
she had kind of said that, you know, her experience
and David's experience were so different and that you start
to feel a little bit of that divide. Did you
guys ever feel that within your relationships?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, me and Kylie, she'll work throughout the day with kids,
and I was also doing like brand deals, like jobs,
or like doing content whatever. I was doing a lot
of things, a lot of work. What he also appreached
was that you have to have a relationship with your
mentor more than your spouse. Yeah, or something like that, Yeah,
that's how you get closer to God, or.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You should be talking to your mentor more than.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Talking to you because that's your tether to God. Submit
to your mentor. That.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Kevin had a really big problem with that one. He
was like, no, you're not in my bed.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
You're not.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
And it was a little bit different for Kevin and
I as well, because I helped shoot the content, so
I was there a lot of the times we spent
most of our time like together versus like some of
the other couples, they had different things going on. We'll
be back with more from our conversation with Aubrey. This
is forgive me for I have followed. Welcome back to
(22:24):
forgive me for I have followed. Here's the conclusion of
our conversation with Aubrey.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So when did you get out? When was that aha moment?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I wanted to ask you about that time here, because
you know, we kind of like moved past it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
We're glad you're out now.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
But it was like, so we had decided to leave,
the group of us had left, and then like we
had heard from the group of people that you were
like still back.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And going there.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
We were like, what Aubrey, what the heck?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Bro?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, so I knew everything was going wrong, but there
was still no evidence of it yet. My heart is
saying one thing, but my mind saying one thing. I'm
still trying to understand, like like what is this? You know?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
And so I was like, you know what, I hear
everybody's side.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I need clarity. I was like, I need clarity. So
I was still going into service, but I wasn't going
just to be there. That was more so just like
navigating and like looking. I was being very careful. I
was hearingbody's tone. I was looking at everybody's body language,
like I was looking at everything, like anything I could
find I was a red flag anything. And it was
more so like the services were kind of just acting
(23:29):
as if like everything was just so normal. And then
when we had our Bible study meetings, that was okay,
but like I wasn't feeling anything.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Week after week it was less caring.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It was more like forget these people, they left us whatever,
moving on, and I didn't really like that. I was like,
more so like okay, this is not something I want
to be a part of. And I was to my
heart is telling me not to be here. And I
was like, if I left today, would I'd be okay
leading here? Because we was in there, but we was
in it for a minute, so I was like, would
I be okay with it? And then as soon as
(24:01):
I left, I hit up one of my mentors and said, hey,
you know, I don't think I'll be able to go
to Chicano anymore. I just want to just take a
step back. He was like, okay, do you mind be
asking why. I was like, I just want to take
a break for a while, and he was okay, and
he started talking more, and I was just like, why
is he still talking to me? Like I thought, he'll
be very understandable, you know, he wouldn't be so pushy
(24:23):
about the whole conversation, just trying to have me stay.
I have to repeat myself again, and I was like, okay,
this is the reason why I have to leave.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
And so after I got out the phone with him,
I sent him my email to hand.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I was like, hey, just continue this last brand new
that we have together that's in a contract. But after that,
you know, I'll be done. I wish you guys the best,
and blah blah. It was very very professional, and then
you know she's messed me back home. I'm so sad
for you to leave. You know, let me know if
you need anything. I hope everything goes well for you.
And that was it, and then I think about a
few days or a week later. That's when we had
(24:55):
our meeting. And then that's when when somebody else was
explaining about how she kind of was and I was like,
no way, if I was in Chicaina, I probably would
not go to that meeting that we had with Alanie.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I would never know.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I didn't realize how and it was.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I told you. I was like I had literally just left.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, it's all coming back to me.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Wow. Still, and then when Rotha came out and I
was like, oh, oh this is good.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is good that the things are adding up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And then when Daniel and Chloe says something they made
a statement, made a statement, I was like, Okay, there's
something in here that they're not saying that they don't
want to say, but it's got something very secretive. I
was like, one thing I know about God, this guy
is not secretive. And I was like, that is my cute.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Have you heard from like Daniel or Chloe since.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
There's I haven't. I haven't heard from Daniel Chloe.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I think my thing is that I don't want to
get in fad of what they were dealing with robbery
because at the same time, that's like that's his daughter,
and I'm just like, I think I'm just leave y'all
be because y'all was in there for the longest.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
I don't know what y'all going through right now.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So with that being said, I'm gonna let y'all deal
with it on your own and whenever that time is,
even if we do meet up and talk, then that
time will come.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
But other than that, I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Like, because I have I have so many questions for Dan.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I'm like, and they just left out of nowhere.
And then when Roberts just says something like, oh, I
don't know why they left. But then I caught him
the other time when that topic came about again, he
was saying, like, we have a mentor and the men
of guy. You know, there's gonna be some agreements, there's
gonna be some disagreements. But I was like, didn't you
just say you don't know why the left? So that
was when I was like, very skeptical about that too
(26:40):
as well. But I didn't catch that until later on,
because you know, when you're in something, you get so
oblivious you just don't really like ask questions in there
because if you do, then you lose privileges like you
just don't you don't do this, you don't get invited
to this, or blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
So we both have like friends or people I still
care about that are the best of our knowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Still over there.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Yeah, anything that you want to say to them, like
now if they were to hear this, or if they
were to hear from.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You, Oh man, there's a lot I would want to say,
but I'm just gonna keep it short. Man, what are
y'all in there out there? We still support you and
we still love y'all.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
That's it, Like, you know, still have community.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We still still have community outside of that, you know,
and don't rely on some man to make decisions for you.
It's just if I had to be completely honest, there's
not just one thing I would just say to them.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
It's multiple things I want to say to them.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
But at the same time, like it's hard for me
to keep it short and simple because it's like it's complex,
you know, Like I build a relationship, I better friendship
with them, So it's kind of hard to kind of
be like, what's one word you would say? I was like,
I mean they could be one word about Like, there's
multiple words I can say.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
To a two hour conversations.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
Our conversation. We got to sit down and talk, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So that's why it's very hard for me to like
let it out of me because I'm like, I don't know,
like it's so much to let out and say.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It actually has me very very emotional, and I think
that there's this like one the reminder of how soon
after we met. But I'm gonna try to get through
this real quick. You guys have become friends, and I
it makes me sad that they don't get to be
a part of your lives because I think you guys
(28:21):
are just such amazing people and just hearing you after
everything that you've been through, after all of the shit
that's been said after the documentary came out, and obviously,
as you guys know, big concern after the doc came out,
which just making sure that you guys were good and
still the love that I know that you have for
them in there and the manipulation and the way it's
being twisted. I guess my hope is is that you
(28:42):
guys can have those moments again, that you can have
those two hours to be like, Yo, we need to
sit down, we need to talk about this, and we
need to hash it out because I've just gained so
much love and respect for you guys, and I consider
you friends and it's a shame. It's a shame that
they don't get to be a part of that. And
I'm so appreciative. I'm appreciative for you and for the
(29:05):
time and for trusting us through such a vulnerable process.
I think maybe I forgot how vulnerable it was, knowing
how soon we met with you and and you know,
hopefully we've created that community that you feel that you
have support in all of that, but in the continuation
of it.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
But I need a tissue O cry beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But I will say, if it was another word, I
will say to them, I would just say, I forgive y'all.
That's it, you know, only because y'all intentions are very
pure and I get it. But at the same time,
it's like there's two ways every story, Yes there are,
but it's only one truth.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
There's always only one truth. So when God reveals that
we'll be here.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
It was really amazing getting to catch up with Aubrey
on today's episode. Hearing his recounts of many key moments
was illuminating, at times, really hilarious.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And often heartfelt.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
I really loved just being able to hear his story
and compare it to my own, because it wasn't something
we got to do a lot in the church. While
joining Chicaina Church and seven M Films wasn't exactly what
we expected. It's important to reflect and focus on collective healing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Forgive
Me For I Have Followed. We're especially grateful to Aubrey
for sharing his story with us. We'll be back next week.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
wv Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael Tore podcast network,
hosted by me Khalia Gray and me Jess cossabetto Forgive
Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Berlson
and Sophie Spencer Zabos.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, Myself, Warmer Balderama, Leo Klem,
and Aaron Burlison at wv Sound.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
See you next week, See you next week.
And I was like, Okay, this is something you hear
that they're not saying, that they don't want to say.
But it's gott He's something very secretive. I was like,
one day I'll know about God. This guy's not secretive.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I'm Jessicas, the veto executive producer of the hit Netflix
series Dancing for the Devil, the seven.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
M TikTok Cult, and I'm Kalia Gray, former member of
Chakina Church and seven M Films, and welcome back to
Forgive Me for I have followed a series we're embarking
on a gripping journey into the hidden and harrowing truth
behind seven M Films and the Chicaina Church. On today's episode,
we're catching up with one of my good friends, Aubrey.
He's a world renowned dancer with millions of followers across
(00:43):
his socials. Aubrey is a singer, actor, and former Chicaina
member and seven M talent. He was featured prominently in
the doc series and had some revealing things to say
about his experience. In our conversation with Aubrey, we'll explore
all of the alleged manipulative dynamics of seven M management.
Hear about his experiences in Chkina Church and learn how
his life has changed since leaving.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
But first we'll catch up on his recent activities and
get his honest feedback and thoughts of what things were
like after the documentary series came out. Now our conversation
with Aubrey, Well, thank you for coming and doing this
(01:32):
with us.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
I'm really happy to see you on the couch sitting
across from me.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Aubrey, How have you been.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
I've been good.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Getting ready to release my next single, which is coming
out soon. I also have a video shoot this weekend
for it, so I'm preparing for that right now. What else,
getting ready to work for an artist that I'm choreographing
forward to as well. Yeah, just doing a lot of things,
new things. I'm kind of just starting fresh. But it's
started fresh in a good way.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's really beautiful. I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I'm really happy to hear that you're doing good and
all the things that you've been working on. Like I
see the clips online and you know, since I've moved
out of the area, I just feel like a little
more out of touch, Like I'm like just like I'm
on right, I'm not used to seeing you through a
screen versus like in person getting to ask you like, yeah,
how have you been what are you doing? So I
really appreciate you coming so one just so we could
(02:21):
like get to catch up and also, you know, get
more into how things have been for us, because we
haven't sat and had a conversation since the documentary came out,
So like, how has that been for you? Watching it
yourself after it's out, and like the response from everybody
from it, I.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Would say it was a little overwhelming because we shot
that like two years ago, so like everything has kind
of shift over as far as like my feelings or whatnot.
But the people that are still in there, like our friends.
You know, I still call my brothers and sisters even
though they may not, but you know, it is what
it is. But as far as like the outcome when
the whole release came out.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
Some parts I was like so upset. I was mad.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I was like, man, can't believe we really went through
that whole mess. But the outcome of it, I mean,
everybody was, you know, checking up on me and like,
I'm pretty sure it's the same with you and concrete.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
To as well.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, a lot of people don't even know about it,
to be honest, right, surprisingly, because when they first came out,
everybody knew about it, like it was like the whole
dance industry.
Speaker 5 (03:16):
Outside of the dance industry. I mean, my grandma knew
about it.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It was like people outside of life, like the whole
world kind of like knew of it. But then they
didn't really know like about it within details.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So I mean after that Instagram.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Life came then once the documenta came out, and then
they were.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Like, oh, oh, this is what it was. Okay, obviously
it's more to the story. You know, you ain't got
like one tenth of it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And the story's still going.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's still going, and it does suck to see our
peoples there, to be honest, but you know, that's just
up to them whether they see it or not. I'm
just glad that the people that are left or doing
their own thing, you know, it's a blessing, you feel
me so absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Have you guys tried to reach out to anyone since
you've left, Like, was there any sort of continued contact?
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Try too, But at the same time, you can tell
the energy is kind of different you know. I spoke
to some of the people, you know, even said happy
birthday to one of them, you know, and it was like, oh,
thank you, bro, appreciate it. But like as far as
like hanging out stuff like that, like there's no way
we're gonna be able to hang out with them, especially
when we first left, Like I saw a few of
them a few times.
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Actually, I like some events, and it wasn't like hey, bro,
miss you man, let's let's catch it up. It was
like hi, black boom.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It was that fast, like after all we've been through,
after all we've hung out and done stuff together, went
to movies together, had our long talks together saying what
we're brother this or sister is and that, and it's
just like he's gonna give up just like that.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Okay, it's all good for me.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Like leaving, it was able to Oh so this is
what like people's friends and family were talking about, like
Reno's parents, Randa's parents, like what they were saying back when,
I felt like, oh that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That doesn't sound right.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
It sounds like they're being they're being bearing, overbearing. Okay,
now I understand what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Because I got cold shoulder and that that cold, yes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
That decrease in relationship, that distance, And I think I
especially see it through Kevin, because Kevin's been friends with
some of these people since he was a teenager. Yeah,
And so like having someone whom it's like, you're my
brother through time and like through everything to like turn
around and hear like, you're not my brother because you're
attacking us basically, like you said, this has nothing to
(05:22):
do with you. This has to do with the wrongs
that happened against me that need to be corrected.
Speaker 5 (05:26):
Totally.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I think I just kind of want to like take
us back to the beginning when you first were introduced
to Chicaina and seven M and you know what made
you want to like join and be a part of
what they had going on, be a part of their community.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
I was first introduced, for one because one of my
friends are in there was good friends with Robert's son,
and you know, they were doing videos a lot, they
were doing content a lot. They're always like hanging out
and they became best friends. And so one story short,
one day, not Robert Son, but one of my other
dance friends, he was you know, mentioning like something from
the word and you know, he was very inspired and
(06:04):
you can tell like he was very uplifted, like he
was like, oh do I learn this? You know, this
is like really good, Like I've heard this from somebody
else in a minute, and like it's so refreshing to hear.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
And you know, he started sharing it. I was like, Okay,
this sounds dope. You know, I grew up with in
a Christian home, so like I was like very intrigued.
I was like, okay, dope.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, man, Like I got friends out a Christian you
know that that go to church. You know, I reached
the Bible. All right, cool, this is dope.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
So then you know, I'm like, okay, like who is
this guy He's like saying that.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know, Robert's the pastor. You know, he's a man
of God and you know he he shares the word.
And I'm like, okay, cool, that's dope. And then they
started going there frequently so that they were like, hey, bro, we.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Had Isaiah's how you come through. I'm like, okay, fine,
I'll come up with the crib.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
You know, I hang out with them and blah blah
blah whatever, and I'm chilling. I don't really know Isaiah
like that I just know three mother friends are there.
And then that's when you know, Robert comes down. He's cooking,
and you know, he's asking me questions like oh, okay,
I heard a lot about you, and how many follows
do you have? And you know, she's like, oh, you
gotta you got the same amount of faults as this guy.
And I'm like, yeah, just regud conversation, nothing too crazy.
(07:06):
Then you know, he feeds us. Then after he fees us,
that's when he starts getting into the world. He starts
asking me questions. You know, if you grew up in church,
or you grew up in a Christian family, have you
gone to church recently? Haven't been going to church a lot?
Or like do you know how many times you send
the day? You know, you know the normal question, how.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Many times do you think you sent it?
Speaker 5 (07:25):
How many times you think you sent the day?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What if I told you?
Speaker 5 (07:28):
If I told you?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
And then like, you know, I said, I don't know,
maybe once, two, three, four or five times? He said thousands.
Speaker 5 (07:35):
I was like, oh, oh yes.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
The syntactic.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
According to former Chakina church members, this was a strategy
alleged to be used by Robert to humble potential recruits
and encourage them to reconcile with God.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
This made them eager to join Chicaina. This is like
one of his favorite baits.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
Yeah, he's that's what everybody that are new everybody.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And so he's like thousands and he's saying how there's
a whole bunch of things that you can probably not
even know that you're sinning, but you're sending it.
Speaker 5 (08:04):
I was like okay.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
And then he started mentioning about like how many people
do you think I have at my church? And I
was like like one hundred, one hundred and fifty and
he said no, he was like a small number. It's
like twenty thirty forty something like that. And he started
explaining like I don't allow anybody just to come to
my church. He said it depends on how you want it.
(08:26):
And I was like okay. And then he was like,
let's go to revelations and then he's like read this.
The scripture said here a look warm, I'll eat you
up and spit you out. I'm like that makes sense.
I was like okay, I have been, you know, kind
of on it off. And then that's when we started
getting to the word more and it this sounded like
very and drinuing like it sounded really good. I was
just like, okay, like this is something that like I've
(08:48):
really had before as far as like you know, if
someone's breaking down the word like that and whatnot. So
that's why I was like, okay, this is code, and
everybody else is like so like intrigued by it, and
those my friends.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
He's a friend of my friends. So I'm like, I'm
here about somefing Okay, cool, long story short. I slowly
started coming around, but not really.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
But then there's days for like, oh, okay, I'll go
hang out with him, let me learn more.
Speaker 5 (09:11):
And that's when I met Daniel.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Did Daniel invite you to me?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Just I just went with my friends. It was just us,
like the dancers and Isaiah, you know, we're all hanging
out whatever. And then that's when he was like, all
we about to leave. We're about to go see Daniel.
He's like, bro, this person, he's so wise, He's got
so much wisdom. Man, How he talks, it's just like
how Robert talks. I was like, Okay, at the time,
we didn't call Robert Robert.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
We call him Doc. So you know, that's when They're like,
come with us, man.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I was like, no, I'm good, I don't want to come.
And then he was like, bro, this might be the
only chance, man, because you may never get an opportunity
like this. I was like all right, I guess and
they're all agreeing to it. They're like yeah, man, like
you bro, please just just come trust this. I was
like all right, I go, you know. And Daniel's cool.
He was like a little younger late thirties, forties, thirty
(10:00):
four years Yeah, very youth ful.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
So I was like, okay, dope. Had a meeting outside.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
We didn't get too deep with it, but it was
very like casual cool and that was about it, and
then just went home.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
After that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
One of my friends he was explaining how he had
a pain one night and he wasn't able to eat,
he wasn't able to do anything like it got to
the point where like he felt like he had to
go to the hospital. So he was explaining how, yo,
like it's unbelievable, man, Doc dick somebody to me and like, bro,
everybody got in circu they pray over me, and then
my stomach wasn't hurting like I kept hitting it like
(10:33):
I was hitting a hard as I can.
Speaker 5 (10:34):
I was like, I don't feel nothing.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And after that, that's when he was like, yo, like
this is real, Like yo, he's got to be like legit.
So I'm just like, it's got to be something that
I'm missing here. Everybody's like going to this place and
they're getting the word and they're speaking about good things
about this guy. And so I'm like, you know what
I trusted, y'all, I'm gonna start going a lot. And
when I started going even more frequently, then that's when
(10:59):
like I started anymore like in tune with what he
was saying, and like he was saying, how like you know,
not everybody joins my church right away. It depends on
how bad you want it. And so that's when I
was really like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna show him I
want it. That's just how I got brought up to
the whole meaning Robert and all that.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
When did like the seven M get started in the
management side of it? Was that while you were first
joining or was it after you'd been.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Seven M started? So I'll give you a whole breakdown, Okay,
Me and three my other friends were all doing videos
at Hollow Boulevard and we did it for like a
couple hours.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Went back to Robert's house. Everybody's chilling. It's a hot day,
you know, everybody's chilling the house.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Robert comes down, you know, he's talking to everybody. You know,
he's like, hey, how you doing. You know, how's the videos?
Blah blah blah whatever. Then he starts seeing one person
was struggling to do something because he was trying to
get a brand new and he had to get it
fast or else it was too late for him to
get it from what they said, okay. And then my
other friend was also on the computer. He was trying
(12:06):
to get like something from a brando that he worked for,
but it was taken a while for him to get paid.
The only person that had a management was one person.
Everybody else did not have no management. So you know,
Robert of course knew all that, and he was like,
you know what he caught handed down. It's like, Hannah,
we're having a meeting.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, Hannah is Robert's wife.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
She comes down and right before they start the meeting,
I'm like, okay, let me just get out, let me
go leave. This has nothing to do with me, and
he goes, Albret, you can stay here and listen, and
I'm just like.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
Okay, sure. I don't know why, but Eric sure.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And he's saying, Okay, we're gonna make a management company
you guys. You know, we're gonna call it seven Them,
and we're gonna make sure you guys get your payments.
You know, we're gonna give all the brand news to
you guys so that where you guys are not struggling
with payment whatever, blah blah blah. And after he finished
saying what he had to say the meeting ended. I
was like, I can I join? He didn't say anything,
walked away. I wanted to be my friend. I was like,
(13:00):
did you hear what he said? I was like no,
he was like what he said before me, it depends
on how you want it. I was like what, Like.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
What is like? What is this thing?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
So then I'm like, okay, good things I have for everybody.
They trust this dude. They getting to work, and then
I'm just like okay. And then at this time, that's
when they barely started getting invited to the church. And
it took me about two months to get invited. And yeah,
that's how seven M started pretty much.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
When you did get invited to the church and you
started going to services, then you also got signed to
seven M.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So after I got invited, I will say about a
month or two in of being the church. Mind you,
I was already getting brand deals before I even knew
about Chikina. But the thing about it is that I
was already struggling to keep up with a lot of
things because it was just like, I'm independent, I got
a management, I ain't got no camera, man, I don't
have nobody, So I'm like, I'm scrambling to pitching the
(13:53):
deliverables as much as I can, and I was barely
making it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
So if you'd already been getting brand deals and then
you signed into seven M, did you see like a
spike in what was coming in for you at that
time or do you think it was just kind of
a continuation of what you were already building.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
It was just a continuation I was already building. It
was helped to learn how to manage as far as like,
are we're going to have you do this, Okay, this
person gonna come and do this for you. You're gonna do
like twenty five videos of this so that we can
cram it all the brand deals that you have to
work on and then you will get it all done
with it one day.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
So just being way more efficient.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It was being made way more efficient, time efficient, creative.
I would say that word for sure. But then as
far as like did they help me with them, No,
because I was pretty much building up to that already.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
One thing that just throughout this process for me that
I've heard from a lot of people, whether they be
the dancers or just ex members, was the system that
they created inside Chicaina and seven M was just efficiency
and I think also relinquishing the adulting side of life,
and then also just the organization. They had that so
much in place that it was easy for p people.
(15:00):
Once you kind of give that over, that control gets
handed to somebody else, but then you start to feel
there's a level of ease that.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Comes with that.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
But then from an outsider looking in, you can understand
how that could create so much control on their side
because you've taken away that muscle memory of you know,
paying bills, creating content, that responsibility of having to do
follow ups. But that efficiency works for them, and it
works really well for both the dancers and for people
(15:33):
that were in Chochina.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
And also the amount that they were asked these brand deals.
It was more so them the negotiations of it, all
negotiations stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Obviously, all of you are so incredibly talented, and the
genres that you can dance to are just you're very
versatile in that sense. But there's people that are still
in there that I feel have completely changed their style
of dance. Was that at times like if you wanted
to do a certain style and you weren't able to
because you're limited to a genre of music, did you
(16:04):
find that to be frustrating times at all?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
We can dance in any song we wanted to, But
the content day was more so orchestrated by Robert, So like, Okay.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Do this song? Do this song? I do?
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I think it's because me and somebody else has got
instructed to do this one song and it hit like
millions of views, and so Robert was saying, hoghlight. See
when you get instructed by the man of God, you'll
be blessed. So that's when everybody's like, You're like, oh damn,
like they got millions of abusing it. Okay, I guess
we're gonna do Oska music too.
Speaker 5 (16:32):
So that's when it was like, all right, cooler, then
let's do it. We're doing crazy on social media.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, And that's what made it so enticing too.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
When Kevin and I like were visiting La and so,
like we had already seen you guys putting out the
content and getting the brand deals, and you're like, well,
it's been working for a lot of your friends. Like,
let's let's see what's going on.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah. Yeah, So we were like, all right, cool. And
it also made it fun too as well, because it
was with people that we already knew.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Yeah, friends, So we're just like, this is even better.
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
You're listening to forgive me for I have followed. We'll
be right back, welcome back. We're breaking down Aubrey's experience
with seven M and Chicina. So when did that change?
When did you start to realize that something was off
and it wasn't what you thought it was?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
When the services started changing and on different days, it
was less meetings at one point because of the whole
life thing. I grew up on social media with Mary
and his family. After that, life went out a few
services like back to back to back. At one point,
it wasn't about service. It was about backing up on
his side of a story. And then he was making
(17:46):
fun of Katie Joy. And then it was like, are.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
We gonna go to the world? Are you just gonna
Are we gonna just gonna gossip about something?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Don't have a whole sermon for two hours about somebody
else and then make fun of him and call him sandwich.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
You started calling Katie Joe.
Speaker 5 (18:01):
Yeah, so and it was soundwichy because and then people
thought that was so funny. We're gonna sound like, oh I.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Don't want to I don't want to call her a bitch,
so we're gonna call her a witch. We're gonna color
a sandwich. Bro. Yes, I was like, just color you
want You're already cussing on the.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
He's like, so you will never like, you'll never hear
a passion that cuss. But me, I'm cool one.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
I was like, Ohm, my bro, you ain't black, bro.
But it's not working.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
But oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Anyways, and then wait, what's that about? Hang on? Just
go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
He really there were a lot of times where he
would very much appropriate the culture is the nicest way
I would say it. But do you remember the time
where he went up on the pulpit and said the
N word no, yes, because he's like, I'm like, I
am your love, because like he was, he was just
(19:02):
saying like basically, when you're in the eyes of God,
like you know how he would just always be.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like, I'm I'm the man of God.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I am like Jesus. So if I'm like Jesus, I
have no race.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And if I have no race, I could say the
things I was.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh, I think I'll remember it on because only because
half of the time I just was not paying attention
because the serve would be so freaking long five hours,
six hours, five hours of sermon. Sometimes it'll be like
a longer was I think at one point, was there
until like eleven eleven thirty at night or something like
that when you get home late, like we'll start at
(19:39):
four four pm.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Sting, I'm sweating from all the things.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
I have so many Well, think about we had we
had he would.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Have worship for two hours, like just music playing for
two to three hours and prayer, silent prayer.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Yes, And that's when Kevin would take his naps.
Speaker 6 (19:56):
I was I was taking was taking my nas and
because I guess that's what they did was they were
like you start and praying with them speaking in tongues,
and so you do have like a whole forty five
minutes to hour.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And then most sometimes even on Wednesdays too. Boy, I
was just like, oh man, I'm so tired.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
Mind you. We had Sunday service as Monday meetings.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
The guy, I don't know, we'll be at Roberts House
for meetings on Mondays.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Oh no, that was the Kevin and I weren't invited
to those, remember.
Speaker 5 (20:31):
Yeah, yeah, later on you guys run invited. Didn't know why.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Actually I never knew why, because Kevin didn't want to
go to one of the meetings because he and I
had like had a disagreement about something. So he was like,
I'm not going to anything, and then that's when we
got disinvited.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
And then Tuesday you had men's meeting with all the
men's a psalm.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Wednesday you had service. Thursday.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
What was Thursday? I don't think you would have anything
on Thursday. Friday we had a meeting and.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
That was the women's meeting. Fridays, but I think we.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Had means at Roberts House Fridays. Saturday we had men's
meeting with Daniel at sam again, then you have service, So.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
We only had one day off the men's meetings versus
the women's meetings. Do you ever feel like you were
missing your partner, because I know when we spoke to Maryland,
she had kind of said that, you know, her experience
and David's experience were so different and that you start
to feel a little bit of that divide. Did you
guys ever feel that within your relationships?
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, me and Kylie, she'll work throughout the day with kids,
and I was also doing like brand deals, like jobs,
or like doing content whatever. I was doing a lot
of things, a lot of work. What he also appreached
was that you have to have a relationship with your
mentor more than your spouse. Yeah, or something like that, Yeah,
that's how you get closer to God, or.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You should be talking to your mentor more than.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
Talking to you because that's your tether to God. Submit
to your mentor. That.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Kevin had a really big problem with that one. He
was like, no, you're not in my bed.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
You're not.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
And it was a little bit different for Kevin and
I as well, because I helped shoot the content, so
I was there a lot of the times we spent
most of our time like together versus like some of
the other couples, they had different things going on. We'll
be back with more from our conversation with Aubrey. This
is forgive me for I have followed. Welcome back to
(22:24):
forgive me for I have followed. Here's the conclusion of
our conversation with Aubrey.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So when did you get out? When was that aha moment?
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I wanted to ask you about that time here, because
you know, we kind of like moved past it.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
We're glad you're out now.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
But it was like, so we had decided to leave,
the group of us had left, and then like we
had heard from the group of people that you were
like still back.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And going there.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
We were like, what Aubrey, what the heck?
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Bro?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
What happened?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, so I knew everything was going wrong, but there
was still no evidence of it yet. My heart is
saying one thing, but my mind saying one thing. I'm
still trying to understand, like like what is this? You know?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
And so I was like, you know what, I hear
everybody's side.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I need clarity. I was like, I need clarity. So
I was still going into service, but I wasn't going
just to be there. That was more so just like
navigating and like looking. I was being very careful. I
was hearingbody's tone. I was looking at everybody's body language,
like I was looking at everything, like anything I could
find I was a red flag anything. And it was
more so like the services were kind of just acting
(23:29):
as if like everything was just so normal. And then
when we had our Bible study meetings, that was okay,
but like I wasn't feeling anything.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Week after week it was less caring.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
It was more like forget these people, they left us whatever,
moving on, and I didn't really like that. I was like,
more so like okay, this is not something I want
to be a part of. And I was to my
heart is telling me not to be here. And I
was like, if I left today, would I'd be okay
leading here? Because we was in there, but we was
in it for a minute, so I was like, would
I be okay with it? And then as soon as
(24:01):
I left, I hit up one of my mentors and said, hey,
you know, I don't think I'll be able to go
to Chicano anymore. I just want to just take a
step back. He was like, okay, do you mind be
asking why. I was like, I just want to take
a break for a while, and he was okay, and
he started talking more, and I was just like, why
is he still talking to me? Like I thought, he'll
be very understandable, you know, he wouldn't be so pushy
(24:23):
about the whole conversation, just trying to have me stay.
I have to repeat myself again, and I was like, okay,
this is the reason why I have to leave.
Speaker 5 (24:31):
And so after I got out the phone with him,
I sent him my email to hand.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I was like, hey, just continue this last brand new
that we have together that's in a contract. But after that,
you know, I'll be done. I wish you guys the best,
and blah blah. It was very very professional, and then
you know she's messed me back home. I'm so sad
for you to leave. You know, let me know if
you need anything. I hope everything goes well for you.
And that was it, and then I think about a
few days or a week later. That's when we had
(24:55):
our meeting. And then that's when when somebody else was
explaining about how she kind of was and I was like,
no way, if I was in Chicaina, I probably would
not go to that meeting that we had with Alanie.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I would never know.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
I didn't realize how and it was.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I told you. I was like I had literally just left.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Yeah, it's all coming back to me.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
Wow. Still, and then when Rotha came out and I
was like, oh, oh this is good.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Is good that the things are adding up.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
And then when Daniel and Chloe says something they made
a statement, made a statement, I was like, Okay, there's
something in here that they're not saying that they don't
want to say, but it's got something very secretive. I
was like, one thing I know about God, this guy
is not secretive. And I was like, that is my cute.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Have you heard from like Daniel or Chloe since.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
There's I haven't. I haven't heard from Daniel Chloe.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I think my thing is that I don't want to
get in fad of what they were dealing with robbery
because at the same time, that's like that's his daughter,
and I'm just like, I think I'm just leave y'all
be because y'all was in there for the longest.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
I don't know what y'all going through right now.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So with that being said, I'm gonna let y'all deal
with it on your own and whenever that time is,
even if we do meet up and talk, then that
time will come.
Speaker 5 (26:14):
But other than that, I'm.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Like, because I have I have so many questions for Dan.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, I'm like, and they just left out of nowhere.
And then when Roberts just says something like, oh, I
don't know why they left. But then I caught him
the other time when that topic came about again, he
was saying, like, we have a mentor and the men
of guy. You know, there's gonna be some agreements, there's
gonna be some disagreements. But I was like, didn't you
just say you don't know why the left? So that
was when I was like, very skeptical about that too
(26:40):
as well. But I didn't catch that until later on,
because you know, when you're in something, you get so
oblivious you just don't really like ask questions in there
because if you do, then you lose privileges like you
just don't you don't do this, you don't get invited
to this, or blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
So we both have like friends or people I still
care about that are the best of our knowledge.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Still over there.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Yeah, anything that you want to say to them, like
now if they were to hear this, or if they
were to hear from.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
You, Oh man, there's a lot I would want to say,
but I'm just gonna keep it short. Man, what are
y'all in there out there? We still support you and
we still love y'all.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
That's it, Like, you know, still have community.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We still still have community outside of that, you know,
and don't rely on some man to make decisions for you.
It's just if I had to be completely honest, there's
not just one thing I would just say to them.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
It's multiple things I want to say to them.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
But at the same time, like it's hard for me
to keep it short and simple because it's like it's complex,
you know, Like I build a relationship, I better friendship
with them, So it's kind of hard to kind of
be like, what's one word you would say? I was like,
I mean they could be one word about Like, there's
multiple words I can say.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
To a two hour conversations.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
Our conversation. We got to sit down and talk, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
So that's why it's very hard for me to like
let it out of me because I'm like, I don't know,
like it's so much to let out and say.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
It actually has me very very emotional, and I think
that there's this like one the reminder of how soon
after we met. But I'm gonna try to get through
this real quick. You guys have become friends, and I
it makes me sad that they don't get to be
a part of your lives because I think you guys
(28:21):
are just such amazing people and just hearing you after
everything that you've been through, after all of the shit
that's been said after the documentary came out, and obviously,
as you guys know, big concern after the doc came out,
which just making sure that you guys were good and
still the love that I know that you have for
them in there and the manipulation and the way it's
being twisted. I guess my hope is is that you
(28:42):
guys can have those moments again, that you can have
those two hours to be like, Yo, we need to
sit down, we need to talk about this, and we
need to hash it out because I've just gained so
much love and respect for you guys, and I consider
you friends and it's a shame. It's a shame that
they don't get to be a part of that. And
I'm so appreciative. I'm appreciative for you and for the
(29:05):
time and for trusting us through such a vulnerable process.
I think maybe I forgot how vulnerable it was, knowing
how soon we met with you and and you know,
hopefully we've created that community that you feel that you
have support in all of that, but in the continuation
of it.
Speaker 5 (29:23):
But I need a tissue O cry beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
But I will say, if it was another word, I
will say to them, I would just say, I forgive y'all.
That's it, you know, only because y'all intentions are very
pure and I get it. But at the same time,
it's like there's two ways every story, Yes there are,
but it's only one truth.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
There's always only one truth. So when God reveals that
we'll be here.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
It was really amazing getting to catch up with Aubrey
on today's episode. Hearing his recounts of many key moments
was illuminating, at times, really hilarious.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
And often heartfelt.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
I really loved just being able to hear his story
and compare it to my own, because it wasn't something
we got to do a lot in the church. While
joining Chicaina Church and seven M Films wasn't exactly what
we expected. It's important to reflect and focus on collective healing.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Forgive
Me For I Have Followed. We're especially grateful to Aubrey
for sharing his story with us. We'll be back next week.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
wv Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael Tore podcast network,
hosted by me Khalia Gray and me Jess cossabetto Forgive
Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Berlson
and Sophie Spencer Zabos.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, Myself, Warmer Balderama, Leo Klem,
and Aaron Burlison at wv Sound.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
See you next week, See you next week.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Acevedo
Kailea Gray
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