October 17, 2024 • 26 mins
In this exclusive two-part interview, we speak with Melanie Wilking, a dancer and content creator featured in the documentary series Dancing for the Devil: The 7M TikTok Cult. Melanie and her sister Miranda, formerly the Wilking Sisters, faced a turning point when Miranda was drawn into the 7M organization. In a courageous move, Melanie and her parents went live on Instagram to expose the situation.
Melanie shares her family's journey since the docuseries, her experiences with Shekinah, and the emotional toll of Miranda's decision to stay. She discusses their ongoing efforts to reconnect with her sister and the important lessons learned along the way.
Forgive Me For I Have Followed continues the exploration from Netflix’s hit Dancing for the Devil documentary series by delving deeper into the personal stories of those affected by Robert Shinn, Shekinah Church, and 7M Films. We will focus on the experiences of victims and their families, address urgent questions raised in the documentary, and gather insights from former members and dancers. Our goal is to uncover strategies for combating abuse and ensuring that controlling, cult-like communities are held accountable for their actions.
*The following is based on actual events. Certain composite and representative materials and characters have been used for dramatic purposes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When she does come out someday, because I do have
hope that she will, she'll know that we did this
because we love her.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jess Cossabetto and.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm Kalia Gray. Our series explores the story of Robert Chin,
the Eli Basha kind of Church, and Seven M Films.
This week we have Melanie Wilking, an incredible dancer content creator.
She was also heavily featured in the documentary Dancing for
the Double. Miranda and Melanie used to create content together.
They had a brand called the Wilking Sisters, which they
(00:42):
built as a unit. So Melanie today is going to
share more of her story about how her and her
sister came in contact with Kina Church and how Miranda
was lured deeper into the seven M organization and what
that caused for their brand and their family as a whole.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And Melanie and her parents that live really did blow
the lid off this story and is really what introduced
us into it as well, and we appreciate them for
doing it and the courage that it took because it
really did spread so much awareness about what was happening.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
And just the tenacity of the Wilkings as a whole,
and what they have been able to do to try
to reach back out to their daughter, their sister, their
family member in such an intense environment like Chicaina and
seven m.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I can only imagine the emotional toll that it took
on the family and through the last couple of years
having so many conversations with them and building a friendship
with them. There was so much that wasn't shared in
the documentary, and so I'm excited to have this conversation
with her so we can go deeper into maybe some
things that people don't know about.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And now our conversation with.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Melanie's Melanie, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I feel like I haven't seen you in a long time,
so it really is so great to see you on camera.
Your hair is always looking fantastic, so.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
You're so sweet. Thank you, And it's great to be reconnected.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I know, I felt like during filming of the documentary
we saw each other so much and talk so much
and that it kind of just stopped. So it's like, Okay,
this is great to reconnect and chat.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, I don't like the distance, so we should make
it a point to stay in contact. But how are
you doing? How are you and your parents doing?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Doing? Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, under the circumstances, it's kind of crazy, but
it's like life goes on. You have to find those
positivities in your life and try to have joy. But
I will say it hasn't stopped us trying to reconnect
with my sister or doing things to try to help,
like the documentary me doing this, like still trying to
(02:54):
share our story and help in any way we can,
and I know my parents especially, it's still an everyday
occurrence of what can we do? What can we say?
Should I reach out? Should I just keep my distance?
You know, there is no textbook, this is what you do,
follow these steps. So yeah, it's still very much we
don't really know what to do, but we're going to
(03:16):
just try to do what we think is best at
the time, So do it, okay.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Since the documentary has been released, how has it been
like for you specifically, like the response of the people
around you, your community, Just how has the documentary affected
your life?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Now?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I will say it was overwhelmingly positive the response that
we got, and there was just so much support and love,
and not that I thought that people weren't going to
be supportive, but it was just like, oh my gosh,
on a global scale too, I'm getting reached out from
people all over the world and really just being thankful
(03:53):
for us sharing our story, or people reaching out saying,
you know, I'm in a similar situation and this gave
me maybe some tips in how to reconnect with my
loved one, or you know, parents saying I watch this
with my teen children and they're learning about signs that
they can look out for when it comes to these
high controlled groups. And it doesn't even have to be
(04:16):
necessarily a group. It could be one person, a relationship.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was just wild to me how many people it impacted.
And I'm just very thankful that we had you guys
and such a great support system to put this together
and so very happy with the outcome.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well that makes me really happy, because I know it
was not an easy decision for you and your parents
to participate in the documentary, but leading up to it,
you had started to establish a relationship again with Miranda,
and I think that there was just this overall overwhelming
feeling of concern that the documentary being released would change that.
But from the outside perspective, it's seen that you guys
(05:00):
aren't communicating anymore. Is that the case?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Sadly, No, And I think that's another thing. When the
documentary came out, Thankfully, I did not have the expectation
that my sister would come out as well. I think
for me, I hoped that maybe she saw it and
maybe it made her think about some things. For my parents,
I think that's different. I think they were really hoping
(05:23):
that she was going to get out.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Of this group.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But thankfully I wasn't completely shattered after and knew that
this was going to put a strain on our relationship.
But I had to think about the big picture and
when she does come out someday, because I do have
hope that she will, she'll know that we did this
because we love her, because we want to share, and
we don't want other people to fall victim of this group.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
So unfortunately No. I did reach.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Out after, and I was in California, reached out to
try to see her. Didn't end up seeing her, but
she has talked to my grandmother through text here and
there and now just recently. My mom very short, pretty
surface level, but it's something and so I think that's
(06:14):
something that we've kind of learned too, is they come
back around. You know, we did our live stream because
we were completely cut off, so we kind of had
nothing else to lose.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
That's kind of how I feel about all this, like
me speaking out, what do I have to lose?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know, she already is gone in my eyes, so
anything I can do that when she does get out,
she'll know that we kept continuing to fight for her.
So thankfully she is coming back a little bit and
hopefully that continues to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Fingers crossed.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Thank you, honestly, and I did want to personally thank
you and your parents. I know it must have been
such a difficult decision to sit and make that live
because it really did blow the lid off of the thing.
It got a lot of the public talking and people
interested and questions that were already being asked on the inside.
It really exasperated that. So just for me to you
(07:08):
thank you so much. I know it was hard, but
it helped a lot of people in a lot of
different ways.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Thank you. That's honestly like the thing that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's like we set our piece and then it actually
made some sort of change, even though it was like
such a chaotic video and like, I can't even listen
to it.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I don't know what we were saying.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It was terrible, but it helped people, yeah, kind of
get validated and maybe some of the things that you
are already thinking.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
So thank you. I'm very glad.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Before we get deeper into that, I do kind of
want to take it back a little bit to how
you and your sister first started your dance career together,
because I don't really know much about the history of
the Woking sisters.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
We started dancing ever since we were very little and
just continue to love it so much, and I would
say we got really serious into it probably when we
were in middle school. We started going to these dance
conventions where it was teachers from LA and choreographers and
you're learning from all these amazing people, and we kind
(08:09):
of both had the realization that we wanted to do this, like,
let's be dancers, Let's make a career out of this.
And so when we got older, my sister moved to
California right after her graduation, and that was hard because
she's two years older than me.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So I stayed back and had to you know, go
to school.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I was still dancing at her dance studio and all that,
but she was doing her thing in LA and doing amazing,
making connections, working really following.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Her dreams, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
And then a year later I came out because during
the summertimes, my family and I would come to California
and we would train and you know, have a little vacation.
And so that summer we came out to visit Miranda
and my sister and I actually booked a job with
Radio Disney. We were doing a live stream during one
(08:59):
of the radio shows, and that was as the Wilking Sisters.
So that's kind of how The Wilking Sisters even really started.
As we started to do dance videos online when social
media was still fairly new, we were hearing more and
more about people being these influencers and working with brands
(09:19):
and stuff, and like, well, you know, that sounds really fun.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I think we should try that. So we started doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And then when we started working with Radio Disney, I
still had one year of high school, but thankfully I
had the support of my school my parents, and I
ended up finishing high school online and stayed out in California.
So that we could continue with the Wilking Sisters brand
because we realized if I went home, that was all
going to go away. It was going to be separated again.
(09:49):
So I was like, Okay, I'm going to say we're
going to figure this out. And yeah, then we just
kept the Wilking Sisters brand going.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Melanie. This
is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Melanie. So you moved to La,
You're working, you start this brand. It's going really well.
Flash forward, how were you introduced to Chicaina and seven M.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
My sister's now husband, James bea Dash He was the
one that got introduced first, and we had realized that
he was hanging out with his videographer Isaiah Shin, which
is Robert the pastor's son. All the time they were
hanging out, and at that time we didn't know that
Isiah's dad was a pastor of a church, so we
(10:46):
just thought they were just friends.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
You know, both creatives didn't seem crazy at all, you know.
And then it was during COVID.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
We were at home in Michigan and my sister flew
out to California to see her boyfriend at the time
now husband, and we still had a place in California,
so where like check on the house, see James, and
when we would talk to her, because we're very much
that family where like I call my parents every single day,
like I'm giving them a play by play of what's
(11:15):
going on in my life and so are they. So
we would talk to Miranda, you know, every day kind
of like what did you do today?
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And it was strange because every single.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Day she was at Isaiah's house, which is Robert's house,
and we're like hmm okay, every day or at their house,
and she wasn't filming any videos.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
She was just kind of there. That's what was kind
of interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And then James told her, oh, he's actually a pastor,
but then he's also helping with my taxes. It was
just kind of strange. But that's when now looking back,
we believe that Miranda got involved. And then about a
month later, I went out to California in I believe
(12:00):
it was October of twenty twenty, and that's when I
got introduced to them to actually go, so I'd already
kind of knew about them, knew that it was religious
in some sense.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
At this point, I knew Isaiah's dad was a pastor.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And so I got invited to a dinner and that's
where I saw firsthand. We're at the dinner table, take
out your Bible app or even before then, when Robert
came into the room, it was like this man was God.
Everyone was like, oh, that's him, hello, you know, like
just a weird energy. And to go back a little
(12:36):
bit before I met them, my sister had explained it
like the Shin family were superheroes, and I felt like
that was a little strange that you put them on
such high of a pedestal, and to have that comparison,
it was just like, hmm, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It's interesting because that's like almost everyone's story. Because I
had a similar story. I was visiting La with Kevin
and you know, he'd known them for a while, and
then I got oh, we're gonna go to a dinner
party and I was like, okay, cool, like rooftop la vibes,
let's do it. And then when I went and it
was the same, Okay, now pulled out your Bibles.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I said, Bibles. Way, where are we right now? Thankfully
I was prepped.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My sister did tell me that they would read the Bible,
but she said that you wouldn't have to do anything.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
This is just for me to take it in.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And Robert made me read almost every single verse.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I got in the car and I was like,
you lied to me. He made me read everything. I
thought I was an observer exactly. And she's like, well,
I didn't want you to get freaked out, so she knew.
She knew they were going to throw me to the wolves.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You had gotten a call from Chloe and that was
when alarm bells went off. Can you tell me more
about that.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, they were definitely warning signs up to this point.
But like the first thing that Robert said to me
is that if I died right now, I'd go to Hell.
And it was just kind of like, really, okay, I
think I'm a good person, and yeah, just really controlling
of your time. You know, Bible studies services are all
(14:12):
several hours and you're seeing them basically every day, and
you also have to be invited to services, so it's
not like oh, open arms church, just show up.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
You know, we accept everyone.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
No, even if you're in the church, you have to
be invited to go to the service. So this particular
service I was not invited to, and I remember feeling
some sort of way about it, which is exactly what
they want. They want you to want to work harder
so that you are invited the next time. But I
remember like it was working on me. I was like
asking my sister, you know, what do you think I did?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
What's going on? Whatever?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Thank goodness, I was not invited because, come to find out,
I was actually supposed to be invited to the service,
but Chloe, who was Robert's daughter, who was my mentor
at the time, she didn't tell me that I was invited,
and so I had already made other plans and I
was taking a friend to the airport and I get
(15:09):
a call from Chloe saying, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I just talked to Pastor, which is another red flag.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
It's her dad, but she calls him Pastor and she said,
he really needs you to hear the word today, and
what are the chances you can just drop everything and
come right now. I was like, I'm so sorry, I
already made these plans. I'm not going to leave my
friend high and dry, like I'll be at the next one.
And it was very adamant, like there's one thing to
want me to be there and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I can't make it all good. You can come to
the next one.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
This was like, you cannot miss this and you need
to drop everything and be there, and I was not.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
About to do that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Then after that, I remember telling my sister, this is
not for me. I will never be going back. And
my sister agreed that it was very strange what had
gone on, and then she, of course sure talk to Chloe,
of course talked to her husband now and it was.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Oh, they just care so much about you, and they
just want you to be there and help you. And
I'm like, I met these people a week ago. They
don't know me like that.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They want something from me, and I'm not going to
give that to them.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Melanie. This
is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
We'll be right back, welcome back to forgive me for
I have followed. And now more from our conversation with
Melanie Welking.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
At the time, were all of the other dancers going
to the church as well, when you had attended the
two services.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Yes, that's what was so enticing about it. It's like, oh,
I look up to these people.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
They're also talented, and I want to be there too.
But then when you know, these little things started to
come out, I was like, sorry, it's not worth it.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I'll figure it out on my own.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
For clarification, Melanie, when you were there, Kalia and Kevin
were not there, correct, got it because Kalia, you guys
came in a little later.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, we definitely came later. And I think I can
echo that same sentiment where I'm going in and I'm
like meeting all of Kevin's influencer friends. I think for
me it was the first time being around people that
are taking their passions and making a career out of it.
So that was the big like oh my gosh, like
I've been in a ceiling for so long and now
like I can make a career out of my dreams.
(17:29):
And I think for me that's what was, like you said,
really enticing about it. It's like a lot of people
who have done so much work and like have made
something of themselves, and I'm like, Okay, well it looks
like this group is successful. In what they're doing, you know,
and Kevin's known them for so long, so it's like, okay,
let's just join and see what they're doing. And Kevin
and Bidash had a brand at the time, and so
Kevin's like, this is nothing out of the ordinary where
(17:51):
he calls me like, oh, come from Sacramento. I have
jobs to do, so come out and be these jobs
with me. So after you had said noticed all of
the red flags, spoke with Miranda. When did you notice
your relationship with Miranda begin to change?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Was it gradual?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Was it instant?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
What was that like? It was?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I would say pretty instant. For the relationship that we had.
We were attached to the best friends, did everything together,
told each other everything.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
We were essentially one person.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And so then when this happened, I was seeing the
darkness and what they were trying to do, and my
sister did not. She was just thinking these people are
very nice. They live in a nice house, they drive
nice cars, we're reading the Bible. What's wrong with that?
That sort of thing, And of course you're going to
think like, oh, yeah, what is bad about that? But
(18:41):
I was like, no, it's so much deeper than that.
And she got really distant. We shared a car at
the time, and she would leave and just go all
day and I didn't know where she was, didn't know
what she was doing.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
I'm like, hey, kind of stranded at the house now, like, well,
where are you? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And you know, come to find out she's with the
Chins all day. Just certain things like that. James never
came around after I said I was leaving.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
It was very brief. I didn't see him very much.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then whenever I would try to vocalize, you know,
they're going to try to split us apart. They're not
going to let us stay together because I'm not following them,
it would turn into these fights that it was like
we never fought before. If we had a disagreement, we
were able to just talk it out and come to
a solution. And those were happening very often, and that
(19:35):
was so scary to me. And I would tell her,
they're going to try to represent you, because I remember
them saying that they were starting this management company now
known as seven M. I said, they're going to represent you.
We are the Wilking Sisters. That is our brand. I
will never be represented by them. So how do you
think that's going to work. You know, they will try
(19:56):
to separate.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Us, and it was no, no, no, I'm still going
to work with you. They won't do that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Well, everything I said happened like I wanted to shake
her and be like, why can't you see this?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
And still that's how it is.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You know, obviously I haven't talked to her, we haven't
been able to have those conversations. And I know that
she's not getting the information, she's not able to see
everything that has come out. But it's just so hard
to see your loved one in these situations when it's
like I was seeing it so clearly and like seeing
my life blow up right in my face.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
It was awful.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So sorry, Mel.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It's so tricky because it's like they'll say no, like
they are getting the information. We're showing them everything, but
it's like, no, you're putting your spin on it. Because
I remember during a service, like Robert would sit and
show line by line things that were happening on social
media but explaining it from his perspective. So it's like, yeah,
you're showing them, but you're giving your own twists to it,
(20:54):
So it could be your narrative that's being put forward
at the end of the day for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
And we all also heard from some members that have
left that it's like, you can look up whatever you want,
you can read up about stuff, but you're inviting the
devil in, so you know that's up to you. The
correct answer for them is don't let the devil in.
So you're not going to look up what's going on.
You're not going to watch these videos.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There was this like Friday meeting where they had all
of the women sit and watch this scary movie. That
just reinforced that idea because it was like, oh, we're
gonna do movie nights, which is like, okay, we'll all
get together, we'll watch some films, and like the first
one we watched was like whatever, but then the second
one was like a horror film where when anybody would
see the riding on the wall, they would become possessed.
And then it was a whole conversation of like, oh see,
(21:40):
you could look at it, you can see it, but
remember the movie. It invites the devil in, and wow,
not the movie propaganda being pushed on us right now,
that's really crazy.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's like, yeah, read up on whatever, watch these videos,
get information, but yeah, you're letting the devil in and
then you're setting yourself back on your or walk with God.
It's so sad because you know, my sister did not
watch the documentary. You know, she's very filtered in what
she sees, so it's difficult.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I can also see them sitting down and watching the
documentary together with them pausing it and being like, see no,
this and that, remember that, and like just twisting it
in a way to where it's like because I think
all of them have mentioned in their own communities like
the whole documentary was just one sided and biased and
they didn't want to hear our side. But we know
how that goes for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Correct me if I'm wrong. But your family had shared
with her that you guys were going to participate in
the documentary. She was aware of it before it came out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
She knew when we were filming. We told her that
we were already doing this. Of course, she pleaded with
us to not do this, and at that point we
were like, I'm so sorry, this is what we feel
is best, but we just want to let you know
so that you're not blindsided when this thing comes out
and that was well before the documentar was ever released.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, and just for anyone that had question about it.
As a production, we have to reach out to the
subjects that are being discussed in documentaries, and they were
aware of it from our side as well. But why
do you think that she responded the way that she did?
Do you think that was orchestrated by Robert?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That's another thing that's been frustrating for us is why
is Miranda always the spokesperson?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Why is she the.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
One that has to come out and have these statements
and these videos and no one else. This whole thing
is about Robert shann and he's a pastor.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
How can you.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Not stand up for your church and yourself and your people?
Why are people not coming out to back him up?
It's just always a.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Tax on everyone else.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So I have to believe that she's probably being told
what to say, and for some reason, she is the
spokesperson for the whole group. I do not understand that.
But no one else says anything. It's here Miranda say this.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And I noticed that as well, and it was really
hard for me to see. And I'm not her family,
and I agree with you, Mail, I feel like this
would have been a great opportunity for him to step
up to the plate, own his shit.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Be the leader that he says that he is exactly.
It's sad because he really does blame Miranda, like he's like, oh,
you and your parents, and that's why we're in this situation.
But praise God, we're going to get through it. And
so I feel like part of like the reason why
she's being made to be the spokesperson. It's like, oh, well,
because in their mind it's like your family started this.
(24:31):
But the truth is, Robert, your actions over the past
thirty years have culminated to this moment, and like Kevin
likes to say, like, you fucked with the wrong families
and now you're reaping what you sew. And it's funny
because that's something that he preaches all the time.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, we're definitely big family people, and we are not
going to give him the satisfaction that he was able
to tear us apart. We are so much stronger than this.
We're going to stay positive, We're going to continue to
share our stories. But even in the meantime, we're helping
other people get out and you know, connecting with other
people that were affected by this group and it's like
(25:09):
so much bigger than just my sister.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That concludes the first part of our conversation with Melanie Welking.
There was so much that we wanted to discuss with
Melanie and one episode just wouldn't do it, So.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Lucky for us, we are breaking it down into two
episodes so we can get everything to you guys, So
please join us next week for part two of our conversation,
and trust me, you don't.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Want to miss this one.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
WV Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael tore podcast network,
hosted by me Kalia Gray and me Jesscossovetto. Forgive Me
For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson and
Sophie Spencer Zavos.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself, Walmer Balderama, Leo
Klam and Aaron Burlison at wb Sound.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
To your favorite shows. See you next week, See you
next week.
When she does come out someday, because I do have
hope that she will, she'll know that we did this
because we love her.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jess Cossabetto and.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
I'm Kalia Gray. Our series explores the story of Robert Chin,
the Eli Basha kind of Church, and Seven M Films.
This week we have Melanie Wilking, an incredible dancer content creator.
She was also heavily featured in the documentary Dancing for
the Double. Miranda and Melanie used to create content together.
They had a brand called the Wilking Sisters, which they
(00:42):
built as a unit. So Melanie today is going to
share more of her story about how her and her
sister came in contact with Kina Church and how Miranda
was lured deeper into the seven M organization and what
that caused for their brand and their family as a whole.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And Melanie and her parents that live really did blow
the lid off this story and is really what introduced
us into it as well, and we appreciate them for
doing it and the courage that it took because it
really did spread so much awareness about what was happening.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
And just the tenacity of the Wilkings as a whole,
and what they have been able to do to try
to reach back out to their daughter, their sister, their
family member in such an intense environment like Chicaina and
seven m.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I can only imagine the emotional toll that it took
on the family and through the last couple of years
having so many conversations with them and building a friendship
with them. There was so much that wasn't shared in
the documentary, and so I'm excited to have this conversation
with her so we can go deeper into maybe some
things that people don't know about.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
And now our conversation with.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Melanie's Melanie, thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I feel like I haven't seen you in a long time,
so it really is so great to see you on camera.
Your hair is always looking fantastic, so.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
You're so sweet. Thank you, And it's great to be reconnected.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I know, I felt like during filming of the documentary
we saw each other so much and talk so much
and that it kind of just stopped. So it's like, Okay,
this is great to reconnect and chat.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, I don't like the distance, so we should make
it a point to stay in contact. But how are
you doing? How are you and your parents doing?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Doing? Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know, under the circumstances, it's kind of crazy, but
it's like life goes on. You have to find those
positivities in your life and try to have joy. But
I will say it hasn't stopped us trying to reconnect
with my sister or doing things to try to help,
like the documentary me doing this, like still trying to
(02:54):
share our story and help in any way we can,
and I know my parents especially, it's still an everyday
occurrence of what can we do? What can we say?
Should I reach out? Should I just keep my distance?
You know, there is no textbook, this is what you do,
follow these steps. So yeah, it's still very much we
don't really know what to do, but we're going to
(03:16):
just try to do what we think is best at
the time, So do it, okay.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Since the documentary has been released, how has it been
like for you specifically, like the response of the people
around you, your community, Just how has the documentary affected
your life?
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Now?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
I will say it was overwhelmingly positive the response that
we got, and there was just so much support and love,
and not that I thought that people weren't going to
be supportive, but it was just like, oh my gosh,
on a global scale too, I'm getting reached out from
people all over the world and really just being thankful
(03:53):
for us sharing our story, or people reaching out saying,
you know, I'm in a similar situation and this gave
me maybe some tips in how to reconnect with my
loved one, or you know, parents saying I watch this
with my teen children and they're learning about signs that
they can look out for when it comes to these
high controlled groups. And it doesn't even have to be
(04:16):
necessarily a group. It could be one person, a relationship.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
You never know.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was just wild to me how many people it impacted.
And I'm just very thankful that we had you guys
and such a great support system to put this together
and so very happy with the outcome.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well that makes me really happy, because I know it
was not an easy decision for you and your parents
to participate in the documentary, but leading up to it,
you had started to establish a relationship again with Miranda,
and I think that there was just this overall overwhelming
feeling of concern that the documentary being released would change that.
But from the outside perspective, it's seen that you guys
(05:00):
aren't communicating anymore. Is that the case?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Sadly, No, And I think that's another thing. When the
documentary came out, Thankfully, I did not have the expectation
that my sister would come out as well. I think
for me, I hoped that maybe she saw it and
maybe it made her think about some things. For my parents,
I think that's different. I think they were really hoping
(05:23):
that she was going to get out.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Of this group.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But thankfully I wasn't completely shattered after and knew that
this was going to put a strain on our relationship.
But I had to think about the big picture and
when she does come out someday, because I do have
hope that she will, she'll know that we did this
because we love her, because we want to share, and
we don't want other people to fall victim of this group.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
So unfortunately No. I did reach.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Out after, and I was in California, reached out to
try to see her. Didn't end up seeing her, but
she has talked to my grandmother through text here and
there and now just recently. My mom very short, pretty
surface level, but it's something and so I think that's
(06:14):
something that we've kind of learned too, is they come
back around. You know, we did our live stream because
we were completely cut off, so we kind of had
nothing else to lose.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
That's kind of how I feel about all this, like
me speaking out, what do I have to lose?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
You know, she already is gone in my eyes, so
anything I can do that when she does get out,
she'll know that we kept continuing to fight for her.
So thankfully she is coming back a little bit and
hopefully that continues to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Fingers crossed.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Thank you, honestly, and I did want to personally thank
you and your parents. I know it must have been
such a difficult decision to sit and make that live
because it really did blow the lid off of the thing.
It got a lot of the public talking and people
interested and questions that were already being asked on the inside.
It really exasperated that. So just for me to you
(07:08):
thank you so much. I know it was hard, but
it helped a lot of people in a lot of
different ways.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Thank you. That's honestly like the thing that keeps me going.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's like we set our piece and then it actually
made some sort of change, even though it was like
such a chaotic video and like, I can't even listen
to it.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
I don't know what we were saying.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
It was terrible, but it helped people, yeah, kind of
get validated and maybe some of the things that you
are already thinking.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
So thank you. I'm very glad.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Before we get deeper into that, I do kind of
want to take it back a little bit to how
you and your sister first started your dance career together,
because I don't really know much about the history of
the Woking sisters.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
We started dancing ever since we were very little and
just continue to love it so much, and I would
say we got really serious into it probably when we
were in middle school. We started going to these dance
conventions where it was teachers from LA and choreographers and
you're learning from all these amazing people, and we kind
(08:09):
of both had the realization that we wanted to do this, like,
let's be dancers, Let's make a career out of this.
And so when we got older, my sister moved to
California right after her graduation, and that was hard because
she's two years older than me.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
So I stayed back and had to you know, go
to school.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I was still dancing at her dance studio and all that,
but she was doing her thing in LA and doing amazing,
making connections, working really following.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Her dreams, which was incredible.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
And then a year later I came out because during
the summertimes, my family and I would come to California
and we would train and you know, have a little vacation.
And so that summer we came out to visit Miranda
and my sister and I actually booked a job with
Radio Disney. We were doing a live stream during one
(08:59):
of the radio shows, and that was as the Wilking Sisters.
So that's kind of how The Wilking Sisters even really started.
As we started to do dance videos online when social
media was still fairly new, we were hearing more and
more about people being these influencers and working with brands
(09:19):
and stuff, and like, well, you know, that sounds really fun.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
I think we should try that. So we started doing that.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And then when we started working with Radio Disney, I
still had one year of high school, but thankfully I
had the support of my school my parents, and I
ended up finishing high school online and stayed out in California.
So that we could continue with the Wilking Sisters brand
because we realized if I went home, that was all
going to go away. It was going to be separated again.
(09:49):
So I was like, Okay, I'm going to say we're
going to figure this out. And yeah, then we just
kept the Wilking Sisters brand going.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Melanie. This
is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Melanie. So you moved to La,
You're working, you start this brand. It's going really well.
Flash forward, how were you introduced to Chicaina and seven M.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
My sister's now husband, James bea Dash He was the
one that got introduced first, and we had realized that
he was hanging out with his videographer Isaiah Shin, which
is Robert the pastor's son. All the time they were
hanging out, and at that time we didn't know that
Isiah's dad was a pastor of a church, so we
(10:46):
just thought they were just friends.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
You know, both creatives didn't seem crazy at all, you know.
And then it was during COVID.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
We were at home in Michigan and my sister flew
out to California to see her boyfriend at the time
now husband, and we still had a place in California,
so where like check on the house, see James, and
when we would talk to her, because we're very much
that family where like I call my parents every single day,
like I'm giving them a play by play of what's
(11:15):
going on in my life and so are they. So
we would talk to Miranda, you know, every day kind
of like what did you do today?
Speaker 4 (11:22):
And it was strange because every single.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Day she was at Isaiah's house, which is Robert's house,
and we're like hmm okay, every day or at their house,
and she wasn't filming any videos.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
She was just kind of there. That's what was kind
of interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And then James told her, oh, he's actually a pastor,
but then he's also helping with my taxes. It was
just kind of strange. But that's when now looking back,
we believe that Miranda got involved. And then about a
month later, I went out to California in I believe
(12:00):
it was October of twenty twenty, and that's when I
got introduced to them to actually go, so I'd already
kind of knew about them, knew that it was religious
in some sense.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
At this point, I knew Isaiah's dad was a pastor.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And so I got invited to a dinner and that's
where I saw firsthand. We're at the dinner table, take
out your Bible app or even before then, when Robert
came into the room, it was like this man was God.
Everyone was like, oh, that's him, hello, you know, like
just a weird energy. And to go back a little
(12:36):
bit before I met them, my sister had explained it
like the Shin family were superheroes, and I felt like
that was a little strange that you put them on
such high of a pedestal, and to have that comparison,
it was just like, hmm, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
It's interesting because that's like almost everyone's story. Because I
had a similar story. I was visiting La with Kevin
and you know, he'd known them for a while, and
then I got oh, we're gonna go to a dinner
party and I was like, okay, cool, like rooftop la vibes,
let's do it. And then when I went and it
was the same, Okay, now pulled out your Bibles.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I said, Bibles. Way, where are we right now? Thankfully
I was prepped.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
My sister did tell me that they would read the Bible,
but she said that you wouldn't have to do anything.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
This is just for me to take it in.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And Robert made me read almost every single verse.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So I got in the car and I was like,
you lied to me. He made me read everything. I
thought I was an observer exactly. And she's like, well,
I didn't want you to get freaked out, so she knew.
She knew they were going to throw me to the wolves.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
You had gotten a call from Chloe and that was
when alarm bells went off. Can you tell me more
about that.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, they were definitely warning signs up to this point.
But like the first thing that Robert said to me
is that if I died right now, I'd go to Hell.
And it was just kind of like, really, okay, I
think I'm a good person, and yeah, just really controlling
of your time. You know, Bible studies services are all
(14:12):
several hours and you're seeing them basically every day, and
you also have to be invited to services, so it's
not like oh, open arms church, just show up.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
You know, we accept everyone.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
No, even if you're in the church, you have to
be invited to go to the service. So this particular
service I was not invited to, and I remember feeling
some sort of way about it, which is exactly what
they want. They want you to want to work harder
so that you are invited the next time. But I
remember like it was working on me. I was like
asking my sister, you know, what do you think I did?
Speaker 4 (14:47):
What's going on? Whatever?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Thank goodness, I was not invited because, come to find out,
I was actually supposed to be invited to the service,
but Chloe, who was Robert's daughter, who was my mentor
at the time, she didn't tell me that I was invited,
and so I had already made other plans and I
was taking a friend to the airport and I get
(15:09):
a call from Chloe saying, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I just talked to Pastor, which is another red flag.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
It's her dad, but she calls him Pastor and she said,
he really needs you to hear the word today, and
what are the chances you can just drop everything and
come right now. I was like, I'm so sorry, I
already made these plans. I'm not going to leave my
friend high and dry, like I'll be at the next one.
And it was very adamant, like there's one thing to
want me to be there and I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I can't make it all good. You can come to
the next one.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
This was like, you cannot miss this and you need
to drop everything and be there, and I was not.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
About to do that.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Then after that, I remember telling my sister, this is
not for me. I will never be going back. And
my sister agreed that it was very strange what had
gone on, and then she, of course sure talk to Chloe,
of course talked to her husband now and it was.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Oh, they just care so much about you, and they
just want you to be there and help you. And
I'm like, I met these people a week ago. They
don't know me like that.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They want something from me, and I'm not going to
give that to them.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Melanie. This
is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
We'll be right back, welcome back to forgive me for
I have followed. And now more from our conversation with
Melanie Welking.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
At the time, were all of the other dancers going
to the church as well, when you had attended the
two services.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Yes, that's what was so enticing about it. It's like, oh,
I look up to these people.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
They're also talented, and I want to be there too.
But then when you know, these little things started to
come out, I was like, sorry, it's not worth it.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I'll figure it out on my own.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
For clarification, Melanie, when you were there, Kalia and Kevin
were not there, correct, got it because Kalia, you guys
came in a little later.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Yeah, we definitely came later. And I think I can
echo that same sentiment where I'm going in and I'm
like meeting all of Kevin's influencer friends. I think for
me it was the first time being around people that
are taking their passions and making a career out of it.
So that was the big like oh my gosh, like
I've been in a ceiling for so long and now
like I can make a career out of my dreams.
(17:29):
And I think for me that's what was, like you said,
really enticing about it. It's like a lot of people
who have done so much work and like have made
something of themselves, and I'm like, Okay, well it looks
like this group is successful. In what they're doing, you know,
and Kevin's known them for so long, so it's like, okay,
let's just join and see what they're doing. And Kevin
and Bidash had a brand at the time, and so
Kevin's like, this is nothing out of the ordinary where
(17:51):
he calls me like, oh, come from Sacramento. I have
jobs to do, so come out and be these jobs
with me. So after you had said noticed all of
the red flags, spoke with Miranda. When did you notice
your relationship with Miranda begin to change?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Was it gradual?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Was it instant?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
What was that like? It was?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
I would say pretty instant. For the relationship that we had.
We were attached to the best friends, did everything together,
told each other everything.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
We were essentially one person.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
And so then when this happened, I was seeing the
darkness and what they were trying to do, and my
sister did not. She was just thinking these people are
very nice. They live in a nice house, they drive
nice cars, we're reading the Bible. What's wrong with that?
That sort of thing, And of course you're going to
think like, oh, yeah, what is bad about that? But
(18:41):
I was like, no, it's so much deeper than that.
And she got really distant. We shared a car at
the time, and she would leave and just go all
day and I didn't know where she was, didn't know
what she was doing.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
I'm like, hey, kind of stranded at the house now, like, well,
where are you? What's going on?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And you know, come to find out she's with the
Chins all day. Just certain things like that. James never
came around after I said I was leaving.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
It was very brief. I didn't see him very much.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then whenever I would try to vocalize, you know,
they're going to try to split us apart. They're not
going to let us stay together because I'm not following them,
it would turn into these fights that it was like
we never fought before. If we had a disagreement, we
were able to just talk it out and come to
a solution. And those were happening very often, and that
(19:35):
was so scary to me. And I would tell her,
they're going to try to represent you, because I remember
them saying that they were starting this management company now
known as seven M. I said, they're going to represent you.
We are the Wilking Sisters. That is our brand. I
will never be represented by them. So how do you
think that's going to work. You know, they will try
(19:56):
to separate.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Us, and it was no, no, no, I'm still going
to work with you. They won't do that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Well, everything I said happened like I wanted to shake
her and be like, why can't you see this?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
And still that's how it is.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
You know, obviously I haven't talked to her, we haven't
been able to have those conversations. And I know that
she's not getting the information, she's not able to see
everything that has come out. But it's just so hard
to see your loved one in these situations when it's
like I was seeing it so clearly and like seeing
my life blow up right in my face.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
It was awful.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So sorry, Mel.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
It's so tricky because it's like they'll say no, like
they are getting the information. We're showing them everything, but
it's like, no, you're putting your spin on it. Because
I remember during a service, like Robert would sit and
show line by line things that were happening on social
media but explaining it from his perspective. So it's like, yeah,
you're showing them, but you're giving your own twists to it,
(20:54):
So it could be your narrative that's being put forward
at the end of the day for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
And we all also heard from some members that have
left that it's like, you can look up whatever you want,
you can read up about stuff, but you're inviting the
devil in, so you know that's up to you. The
correct answer for them is don't let the devil in.
So you're not going to look up what's going on.
You're not going to watch these videos.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
There was this like Friday meeting where they had all
of the women sit and watch this scary movie. That
just reinforced that idea because it was like, oh, we're
gonna do movie nights, which is like, okay, we'll all
get together, we'll watch some films, and like the first
one we watched was like whatever, but then the second
one was like a horror film where when anybody would
see the riding on the wall, they would become possessed.
And then it was a whole conversation of like, oh see,
(21:40):
you could look at it, you can see it, but
remember the movie. It invites the devil in, and wow,
not the movie propaganda being pushed on us right now,
that's really crazy.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
It's like, yeah, read up on whatever, watch these videos,
get information, but yeah, you're letting the devil in and
then you're setting yourself back on your or walk with God.
It's so sad because you know, my sister did not
watch the documentary. You know, she's very filtered in what
she sees, so it's difficult.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
I can also see them sitting down and watching the
documentary together with them pausing it and being like, see no,
this and that, remember that, and like just twisting it
in a way to where it's like because I think
all of them have mentioned in their own communities like
the whole documentary was just one sided and biased and
they didn't want to hear our side. But we know
how that goes for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Correct me if I'm wrong. But your family had shared
with her that you guys were going to participate in
the documentary. She was aware of it before it came out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
She knew when we were filming. We told her that
we were already doing this. Of course, she pleaded with
us to not do this, and at that point we
were like, I'm so sorry, this is what we feel
is best, but we just want to let you know
so that you're not blindsided when this thing comes out
and that was well before the documentar was ever released.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, and just for anyone that had question about it.
As a production, we have to reach out to the
subjects that are being discussed in documentaries, and they were
aware of it from our side as well. But why
do you think that she responded the way that she did?
Do you think that was orchestrated by Robert?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
That's another thing that's been frustrating for us is why
is Miranda always the spokesperson?
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Why is she the.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
One that has to come out and have these statements
and these videos and no one else. This whole thing
is about Robert shann and he's a pastor.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
How can you.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Not stand up for your church and yourself and your people?
Why are people not coming out to back him up?
It's just always a.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
Tax on everyone else.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
So I have to believe that she's probably being told
what to say, and for some reason, she is the
spokesperson for the whole group. I do not understand that.
But no one else says anything. It's here Miranda say this.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And I noticed that as well, and it was really
hard for me to see. And I'm not her family,
and I agree with you, Mail, I feel like this
would have been a great opportunity for him to step
up to the plate, own his shit.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Be the leader that he says that he is exactly.
It's sad because he really does blame Miranda, like he's like, oh,
you and your parents, and that's why we're in this situation.
But praise God, we're going to get through it. And
so I feel like part of like the reason why
she's being made to be the spokesperson. It's like, oh, well,
because in their mind it's like your family started this.
(24:31):
But the truth is, Robert, your actions over the past
thirty years have culminated to this moment, and like Kevin
likes to say, like, you fucked with the wrong families
and now you're reaping what you sew. And it's funny
because that's something that he preaches all the time.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, we're definitely big family people, and we are not
going to give him the satisfaction that he was able
to tear us apart. We are so much stronger than this.
We're going to stay positive, We're going to continue to
share our stories. But even in the meantime, we're helping
other people get out and you know, connecting with other
people that were affected by this group and it's like
(25:09):
so much bigger than just my sister.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
That concludes the first part of our conversation with Melanie Welking.
There was so much that we wanted to discuss with
Melanie and one episode just wouldn't do it, So.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
Lucky for us, we are breaking it down into two
episodes so we can get everything to you guys, So
please join us next week for part two of our conversation,
and trust me, you don't.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Want to miss this one.
Speaker 5 (25:41):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
WV Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael tore podcast network,
hosted by me Kalia Gray and me Jesscossovetto. Forgive Me
For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson and
Sophie Spencer Zavos.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself, Walmer Balderama, Leo
Klam and Aaron Burlison at wb Sound.
Speaker 5 (26:02):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
To your favorite shows. See you next week, See you
next week.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Acevedo
Kailea Gray
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