October 29, 2021 • 42 mins
In this episode, host Geoffrey Zakarian speaks with world renowned chef Eric Ripert. From his early childhood buying fresh fruits and vegetables from markets along the French Riviera to his rapid ascension through the ranks of Paris’ finest kitchens, they explore how Ripert developed his own taste and style – and what contentment looks like from the top.
Check out Eric Ripert’s cookbook, “Vegetables Simple,” here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/610571/vegetable-simple-a-cookbook-by-eric-ripert/
For more information on "Four Courses With Geoffrey Zakarian" follow Geoffrey on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/geoffreyzakarian"
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
My name is Jeffrey Z Carreen and you're listening to
four Courses with Jeffrey Z. Carrion from I Heart Radio.
In four courses, I'll be taking you along for the
ride while I talked with the top talent of our time.
In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from
my guest life and career. And during those four courses,
I'm going to dig deep in and cover new insights
(00:26):
and inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves
to push forward. My guest for this episode is a
world renowned chef. He built his career working for some
of the oldest and best restaurants in France, and today
his flagship restaurant in New York City ranks as one
of the best in the world. Without further delay, let's
get into my conversation with Eric Repair and jeff For
(00:50):
our first course, I wanted to ask Eric what parts
of his childhood drew him into the kitchen. He spent
his early life gathering fresh fruits and vegetables from local
markets and a part of the world most of us
can only dream of vacation. I was born in on
Teabe and then my parents live in um next to
can and then to Saint Tropez, and so I was
in the front review for about nine years here. So
(01:12):
when you think of like those times when you visit
back there, what smell or memory of smell or food
when you walked into your house grabbed you. What do
you remember walking into your house now that once in
a while you walk by another restaurant, like you know
that smells sort of like what was cooking in my
house or what we did all the time. What I
remember the most, it's the smell of the basil, the basil,
(01:37):
because over there is so vibrant. You can be like
fifty yards from the market and and from the stand
and you can smell the basil or the sweetness of
the melons or something like that. If at home I
have basil from the garden, or I have some melons
that I never put in a fridge by the way,
so they don't lose their flavor, then it minds me
(02:00):
the market. So how old were we about them when
you realize that that smell was like intoxicating. I was
very young. I was maybe four or five years old,
because my grandmother was taking me to the market every day,
you know, like in France, that the generation was going
to buy the bread every morning and whatever they needed
for the day, and the day after they were going
(02:22):
back to the market again and visiting the butcher and
stopping at the vegetable stand and some days going to
the fishery and so on. So it was you know,
they took but takes an hour or two to do
that every day. I mean, it takes time and you
have to do it, but you get the ability. First
of all, I believe that buying more often you you
spend less because you getting much smarter and you have
(02:43):
an inventory in your head about what you have, so
you don't you're not buying you know what, I'll just
get it anyways in case I need it. You don't
do that. That's not in case I need it. You know,
you buy what's on sale or what's fresh or what's
in season, and you buy a lot of it and
you eat that for three or four days. Yes, it's
fantastic because you are so connected with the season just
by visiting the market, just by talking to the people
(03:06):
who sell their products. And sometimes we talk about seasons
like the spring and the summer and the fall, but
the beginning of the spring is very different than the
middle of the spring at the end of the spring,
so we we were connected to the season. Just by
doing that, we knew exactly when was the best tomatoes
of the year, of the best strawberries, or the sherris
(03:28):
when the season was starting and so on. I grew
a vegetable garden this past year and never had done
one for a long time, and it was so much work.
And I had forgotten once zucchini comes, man, you're gonna
be eating zucchini a lot because it all comes on.
It's yes, it's the same for the salads. Right. This
year I planted some salads, and what I forgot is
(03:49):
that all the salads comes at the same time, and
so you get the same romane or the same letters
in huge quantities. What I like about it is that
we eat a lot of it because there's delicious, But
we are also connecting with the neighborhood because we give
them some salads and they're happy and they give us
(04:10):
something else and so on. There you go, and that's
what it's all about. So, so your grandmother went to
the market, did your mom monique r your mom's monique, right? Yeah?
And my mother was her name is still Monique, yes,
And did she go to market to or was she
just doing preparation and her mother helping your buying and
all that sort of stuff. So my mother was going
(04:32):
to the market as well, but not the way my
grandmothers were going to the market. So I had an
Italian grandmother and a provincial grandmother and they were going
there on the daily base, and it was like soul
food from their region northern Italy and the region of
province near Avignon. And my mother was going to the market,
(04:54):
but she was buying slightly differently, and she was very
inspired by nouvelle cuisine and by what chefs like Paul
Bocuse and Michelle Gerrard and all the generation we're doing.
And she was cooking for us very elaborate food. So
it was slightly different in terms of preparation and shopping. However,
(05:14):
for me it was a blessing because I was exposed
to salt food and I was exposed at the same
time to something that it was very refined. And I
didn't know that I was privileged. I thought every kid
in the world was eating exactly like me, and so
didn't really you like you wanted to do something in
the food world, or did you have college on mine
(05:35):
on your mind, or did you want to, you know,
learn a trade. Well, I was obsessed with eating because
I was so spoiled and my experience were so powerful,
and I was always trying to get inside the kitchen.
But nobody led me because they claim I would thrash
the kitchen or leave some disaster there. But I was
(05:55):
very young. I was five, six seven years old, obsessed
with the kitchen. Not necessarily to really work hard in
that kitchen. I wanted just to play a little bit,
but I wanted to eat well, and that's why I
was there. And then when I became older, instead of
studying in high school, I was reading cookbooks and I
(06:16):
remember Paul bocus Are like within the Marche and and
so on, and I was reading recipes. Therefore I had
bad grades, right, And because I had bad grades, at
one point they called my mother and said, your son
is really, really bad in school. He has to find
what they call in friends, vocational college. And I was like, yeah,
I'm going to culinary school. That's what I want to do.
(06:36):
I want to cook and I want to eat well.
And I no no idea how hard it would be
to go to a clinary school and study because as
you know, we are not born with knife skills and
all those those important details. Right, yes, but you're you're
into at this time or you still on the side
(06:57):
of France. So I was living in a principal of Andorra,
but the school was in Perpinion, which is the south
of France, which was about three hours by cal from
where I was living. So I was in that school
and they had a reputation of being tough. All the
teachers were coming from the the yacht Le France, and
(07:18):
that boat was very iconic in the seventies and eighties,
and those guys were very well trained and very tough.
So they were training the cooks in the in the
school with a lot of rigor, which is of course
beneficial at the end, right, And they knew their craft
very well. I had very good teachers, but I was
not the best cook in the class. There was a
(07:40):
lot of kids that were really excelling. I was doing
a good job. I was really bored in culinary school
because my parents were taking me to the best restaurants
in France, and I was exposed to grid cuisine and
then in culinary school, we were learning the basics, which
is normal obviously, and so the basics a mayonnaise and
vinegar it and sas beshamal and and things like that,
(08:02):
and I was like, oh my god, this is so boring.
So I was not that excited, but I was cooking
pretty well. So then they decided that I was a
great waiter because the first year in cleanery school you
had to be a waiter a little bit for part
of the weekend in the kitchen for about It's a
business in the business. So they tried to push me
to become a waiter, and I didn't want to do that.
(08:24):
And a big accident happened at the end of the year,
just before they took their decision. I basically dumped on
top of a general from the French army a trail
of cocktails, and and then it was not enough. I
had to go back to the table because the teacher
told me I had to go back. And then I
served the table, and when it was time to serve
(08:45):
his wife, the trail tilted and the glass fell on
the neck of his wife. And that was not over again.
They told me to go back to the bar and
come back so I I came back and I slid
on the ice cube that was on the floor, and
the trail went back on the table and that was
sent forever in the kitchen for the second year, and
in between, they send me in training to work in
(09:07):
a very tough kitchen to make sure that I had
a passion and the fire for cooking, which I had,
and I started to really enjoy being an in those
kitchen and then I graduated and moved to Paris. In
(09:36):
our second course, I had to understand how Eric's career
as a chef took off when he arrived in Paris, because,
unlike most people straight out of Connory School, Eric cut
his teeth at one of the most renowned restaurants in France,
latur Jon. In fact, the institution celebrated it's four d
anniversary the very year Eric started. They were basically the
(09:56):
first restaurant that introduced the fork in rents because the
King didn't want to eat with his fingers anymore, and
they created the fork, and uh, he was going there,
the restaurant of the King. I never knew that. That's incredible.
So four years or so, two six D something, I mean,
that's just unbelievable. Yeah. During the French Revolution, because it
(10:20):
was a sign of royalty, they basically burned the restaurant
and destroy it, but they rebuilt it again on top
of the ashes of the old restaurant. And then in
the beginning of the twentieth century the name changed from
Latin became Cafe only so Jan. So what's Tota Jan
(10:40):
is known for other than it's incredible seller. It's like
located on top of like I think it looks over
Notre Dame. I think I haven't been in a long time.
And they have the famous Tacolo range or the duck
per se correct which the giant doctor gets smashed. Did
you do that? Did you learn that process? Were you
there long enough to go to the entire station? Yes?
(11:01):
I was. I was, so I started and I was
seventeen years old. I was the youngest coup in the kitchen,
not the most brilliant one, I have to tell you,
because coming from culinary school, going to a brigade like
that is a definitely a culture whole change and the challenge.
But I did all the stations except past three because
they put me in pastry and one afternoon while everybody
(11:22):
was away I ate twenty five raspberry tartlets and I
didn't know they were counting them, and they kicked me
out of the past three. I never went back, but
I did all the station from from the fish station
to the duck station. Don't they have a number system?
I remember back then they had how many ducks they sold,
and then they had like a prize. I believe at
(11:43):
one point, not too many years ago, that there was
the one million duck or something like that. Yes, they
reached the one million. So each time that someone eats
a duck, they gave him a postcard with a number.
I have to tell you don't believe that story because
I burned so many ducks and they didn't issue numbers
for them. One day, I went for the family meal
(12:05):
and when I came back, it was flames coming out
of the hood. It was twenty four ducks burning in
the oven. Oh my god, I mean duck. People understand,
duck is a dangerous animal. I mean, there's so much
fat on them. They're very You've got to really understand
how to coca duck. It's easy to overcook it, but
probably cooked ducks so the leg and the thigh is
(12:26):
almost impossible. Probably if you haven't been to a lot,
Toldo Young, I would put it on anybody's bucket list.
I don't care how many stars it has now. It's
just such a spectacular place to go. And it's just
it's like you feel like the movie rather too. You
know that when they sit down and you look it
over the Paris. That's what it's like. It's that magical.
It really is. Yes, it's one of the most dining
(12:47):
room in the world. Actually, I mean you have a
view of Notre Dame de Paris. It feels like it's
it's in the dining room basically made of gigantic windows,
and it's amazing. On inside, you see the lascent, which
is the river and and Paris and Notre Dame. And
on the other side you have those kind of what
they called duck theaters, which are like small areas that
(13:11):
look like a mini theater where the waiters are cutting
the ducks and they are preparing the ducks and making
the sauce with the press and so on. I mean,
it's it's one of those very unique experience. And then
they have one of the most beautiful wines set over
in the world. I mean, it's i was very young
when I saw it and I understood it. I would
love to go back again, and just taking it as
(13:31):
someone who just wants the experience. And I remember what
I remember was going up to the window and seeing
the barges going by all lit up and people are
having dinner on the barges as they were going down
the scene. I'm like, this is just magnificent. And that
was like I thought, it was like, wow, it was
a show that we was just doing it. No, that's
how it's every day like that. It's just it's a lifestyle.
(13:52):
Back then, I think it was three stars. Yes, if
I'm not it was. So you went from you know,
Colninary school to a couple of places three stars. That's
a big leap. A lot of people work a long
long time before they gave recruited for a three star restaurant. Yes,
but in my mind there was no other way. I
wanted to work in a three star restaurant. I didn't
(14:13):
want to work in anything else. So when I graduated,
I went to buy the Michelin Guide and it was
eighteen restaurants in France that at three stars, and I
sent I wrote by end of course, at the time
it was no computers. I wrote eighteen letters saying, hey,
I'm a re repair I just graduated, blah blah blah,
I'm seventeen years old. I wanted to work in your kitchen,
(14:34):
and nobody answered and and finally a month and a
half later, I received a call and it was a
suche from lad Brand who said are you repair? And
I said, yes, I am repaired. While we got your
letter and we have a job for you. And I
said when, Yeah, great, okay, when can I start? And
it was a Friday afternoon and I remember because I
(14:55):
was coming back from ranging in the forest for Portugue.
And the guy said, well, I need you on Monday.
In between Friday afternoon and Monday, we were able to
find an airline ticket. I made my suitcase and I
was in Paris in a subway on Monday morning on
(15:16):
my way to rang. I just hearing that, I get
chills because when you get to the door, you know,
the hallway to the kitchen is always fluorescent, like it's
not pretty, it's always the feeling is like you're out
of body feeling. It's like where am I? What's that
so foreign? You're not in any comfort zone. Whatsoever, and
you're like, at the same time, you're like, oh my god,
(15:36):
this is amazing. Yes, it was amazing and fascinating. But
I was so scared because I was pretty protected in
my lifestyle because Andorra is a very small country. Everybody
is happy. I have never seen professional kitchens. It was
all about reading in books and dreaming about it and
(15:58):
so on. And suddenly you are in that kitchen with
thirty or forty cooks. And when I walk in that kitchen,
they were already like in full speed. It was eight
o'clock in the morning, but the stocks were boiling and
the guys were working and running and so on and
and actually I was very surprised. Nobody was my age.
(16:18):
They were all like twenty five thirty years old, and
they look at me like I was someone coming from
a UFO. And uh, it was very intimidating. But I
mean after a couple of days, I mean, was it
just like You're like, oh my god, it's pinched me
because you know you're at some place that's extraordinary. Yes,
I was extremely happy and challenge at the same time,
(16:42):
because when you come out of a culinary school, as
much as you believe that with your graduation. You are
a great cook. When you work in those restaurants, you
realize you know so little and you make so many
mistakes and so on, and you the challenges are enormous.
It was a very intense experience for me, but I
have no regret at all. I will do it in
(17:03):
a heartbit. Yeah. I So what's the first station that
you worked? Where did they put you first? Obviously didn't
work a station. And then what was the first time
when someone noticed that you were really very capable and
they're like said, okay, let's you know, the world got
around that, you know what you were doing so specialized
(17:24):
in ducks. However, they put me in a fish station.
H And the fish station it was not so easy.
I mean you had to take care of yourself of
filting your fish and taking care of the shellfish and
making your sauce and garnishchees and so on. So I
was helping the main chief in that station, and I
(17:44):
had a lot to learn. I mean from making an
lands with thirty two yolks that became scrambled eggs after
on my first day, after an hour in that kitchen,
to cutting my fingers, slicing shallotte again on the first
day was the beginning was a bit rough. But after
I would say three or four months, finally that came
to me and they said, you know, we believe. Now
(18:07):
now it's time for you to move to the next station.
And that was a big deal. When they were moving you,
it was like a very big compliment. You were accomplished
in one station, you could go to the next and
learn something else, and then you were moving again and
again and again. So the fish station. So you're at
the fish station, is there anything now knowing fish like
you know now? Was there anything there that stood out
(18:30):
knowing what it was then as being exemplary since they
weren't known for fish. Yeah, I thought that the way
they were preparing fish was extremely light and very original. Actually,
the chef Dominick Bush at the time was trying to
change a little bit the reputation of Latron and get
(18:50):
away from the ducks and have a reputation for a
broader cuisine. So it was really putting a lot of
efforts into the fish station, which was my luck because
we we're using a lot of different techniques. It was
a blessing because I really really started my love for
cooking fish in there. It seems like like looking back
at your career, like told Jean, could have been a
(19:13):
place that really cemented fish for you, even though it's
not known for fish. I mean I never ate fishy
to Jean, No, because nobody, I mean, if everybody hits
the duck. However, again, the fish was really delicious, and
I really started to enjoy very much cooking fish because
when you cook meat, and I love I don't have
(19:34):
a preference in between meat and fish or vegetables. When
I cook, I cook with my heart and with my
knowledge and and so on and my instinct. But when
you cook meat is a very sensual way of cooking, right,
But when you cook fish, it's a very sensual way.
But also it's a very technical way. And I love
the fact that you have to be so focused because
(19:55):
ten seconds could be the biggest mistake and the fish
becomes are cooked and he has no flavor and so on.
The meat is much more forgiven you cooked meat an
extra minute, you don't have consequences for the fish. You
have to be so cautious, and you have to be
so cautious also with whatever goes in the plate, because
the fish is so delicate. That any ingredients could overwhelm
(20:18):
the qualities of that filly of fish in the plate.
So I learned that from La Daran and moving to
Robbie Shaw and to other restaurants, I learned that respect
for the techniques and for the ingredients, and especially for
cooking fish for our third course. I wasn't just gonna
(20:47):
let Eric class all the time working with world class
chef Joan robber Shan at his restaurant jam Robbishan ran
one of the strictest kitchens in the business, and I
wanted to know how these extremely high standard shaped Eric's
style as a chef. Tell me about Jamain. I mean
I remember eating a Jamin and then I remember the
next time I had his. This cuisine was the Latalier
(21:07):
and he did a very big deal. But tell me
about the working as German, Like what, you were assistant
chef the party, which is a big deal. Yes, So
he hired me um as the chef the party. So
after a chef the Party, which is like, it's a
pretty good title. I mean, chef the party means you're
responsible for a station. And I was actually in garde manger,
(21:29):
which is the cold pitier section, and I was in
charge of Garde Manger. With him, Joel Robbie Jamain was
doing miracles every day. And he's the most rigorous, knowledgeable,
precise and demanding chef that I have ever seen in
the world. To this day, he's no longer with us,
(21:51):
but he was considered God at the time and his
his entire career, he was extremely respected for the fact
that he was probably with Freddy Rillard Gerardin in Switzerland,
considered the best chef of the planet. So I walk
in Jamin and I come. I'm coming from lat Dar ground.
We are about thirty cooks in La round. We do
(22:13):
and read and something cover the night. I go at
rubbish round. We are about thirty cooks and we do
fourty covers. And everybody start at six o'clock in the
morning as a break of half hour in afternoon and
we end up at midnight at the earliest, or sometimes
one or two o'clock in the morning. And that is
five days a week, so you basically have four hours
(22:34):
to go to your house, take a shower, have breakfast,
brought your teeth, put some clothes, come back. So tell
me why, tell me what you saw that was remarkable
that stayed with you. Robbi Shawn was caring so much
about the attention to the detail, and he was the
first and I think the only chef that I know
(22:55):
who was able to bring the precision and the stat
of the cuisine that they do in competitions. But usually
that cuisine in competition is not really delicious. It looks
beautiful and it takes three days to make, so three
days later your fish is fishy, obviously. But Robi Shaw
was able to bring that exercise of making competitions and
(23:19):
he won all of them, and he was bringing that
in the plate, and it was done in a timely
manner for the clients, and everything was super freshy, and
we had the best thing radiants and so on. So
it was basically mission impossible. You were going to robbish
On knowing that you will not be capable to make
him happy and to meet the standards. However, you will
(23:43):
try to get as close as you can, and it
will take you hours and hours and hours of work
to try. And at the same time you knew he
would never be happy. Just amazing. So I remember I
remember distinctly the ravioli languesstea u. This is amazing. Jeffrey
that's ravioli of langostein. You know, we were making the
(24:05):
ravioli when you were ordering. So you were saying, I
want an order of ravioli, which was on the bed
of cabbage with flua grad trafle sauce. Right, you had
some guy running with some lingos tein's, going to the
pasta machine, making the door, putting the langosteins in it,
poaching the langosteins in a broth. And while someone was
(24:26):
doing all that, we were preparing the cabbage, and we
were preparing the flag. Oh my god. That was the
way Roby Shron was cooking for his clients. So imagine
we were, yes, thirdly cooks for four recovers, but you
were ordering one order of langostein and you had three
(24:46):
or four guys involved for fifteen minutes just for you.
And then he was touching the revoli with his finger
and sometimes the langostins wouldn't be as firm as he likes,
so we will have to read the dish. It was
an interesting time. How long did you stay there? So
I stayed one year and then I was struggling because
(25:08):
it was really really challenging, and I was called to
go to do my military duties because it was mandatory
at the time in France. So I went to see
him and I told him that I had to live
because I was called. And he said, don't worry about it.
I'm going to send you to the Eliza. You will
cook for the President of France, but you're staying with
me for now. And I said, very flattering. It was
(25:31):
very flattering, but I said, no, I cannot do that
because I really have to go back to the south
of France. So anyway, let me go. And on my
last day of my military duties, I thought it was
a joke. I received a call at the office of
the sergeant and the sergeant said, you have a call.
Is Joel Robby Shaw on the phone? And I was like, yeah,
(25:51):
sure of course, and I grabbed the phone and it
seemed and he says to me, he says, I hear
that you're finishing your duties and so on. I have
a positive for you. Would you like to come back
at jama and you will be the chef person in
charge of the fish station. And I said to him,
thank you so much. I have to think about it.
And he said to me, of course, you have thirty
(26:13):
seconds and you can imagine in thirty seconds how many
things goes in your head. And of course I had
to say, yes, I had no choice. So therefore I
was back with him again for two more years in
a fish station. So tell me how he cooked fishback then?
How did he use his poal? What did he do
about he roast palet jose? What did he do? So
(26:37):
he was identifying the qualities of the fish in his mind.
He knew that some fish are better when they are
poach or steam. Some fish are better when they are
soute and the skin is crispy. Some fish needs to
be backed and hauled and then potentially of the boat,
and so on. We were using all those different techniques
(26:58):
we had about I was six different recipes of fish
on the menu as main course. They had, of course
different source and different techniques and different garnishes that were
all meant to elevate the qualities of the fish. And
that is what I learned with him before I came
to America. It's how to elevate the qualities of every
(27:20):
individual shellfish and and fish that we are cooking. So
I mean, you came to us eighty nine, what the
hell was on your my New has been the Second Revolution.
I remember eighty nine. It was it was crazy. New
York City was crazy to eighty nine. I was in Washington.
Disease it was not the word at all because politicians
and lawyers are pretty boring at night. However, I was
(27:42):
with Georgean Riparadan, great great Jean Riparada was an extremely
creative chef. It was kind of a hipy gypsy, crazy, fun,
creative guy. And I learned so much from him because
he said to me said, look, you come from Robbish,
from kitchen, and he he made you a great technician.
(28:02):
But basically you cannot create anything. You can only duplicate.
So he said, I'm going to take care of you
and I'm gonna make you creative. You have to open
your mind. So Jean Louis was on a mission to
make me creative with all the techniques that I had
to related from La. That's a deadly assassin, right you have,
knowing Judo and carrying an M sixteen. So anyway, if
(28:28):
I can make a comparison its own analogies like coming
from Catholic school and going to Woodstock directly. Anyway, I
was having fun in the kitchen with Jean Riparada, but
I didn't want to stay in Washington. I was very young,
and I was very attracted by New York because it
was a lot of things happening in New York in
every industry, and and the city is always very active,
(28:51):
as we know, so I wanted to party as well.
So I came to the city and worked for David Boule.
I worked with him for eight or nine months, and
then Sheberlocas offered me the position of being his chef
the cuisine, and I came to Lebernarda. How did he
know about you? Did he know that you worked in Robberation?
Did they have a hotline into all these new guys friends?
(29:15):
So Shelberlacaus wanted to replace Elbera Miller, who opened Lebernardan
with him in nine six, So it was one and
he called Jean Upaada in Washington. They were good friends,
and Jean Louis said, I had this kid in my
kitchen now is at Boule, but I think he can
do the job. Try to get in touch with him
and we will see if he can go to lebernard
(29:35):
And and become the chef. I started actually Junie leven
at seven for the am of and I remember because
I look at my watch, the energy was very strange.
I felt it was something very special. My sixth cents said,
this restaurant's going to be very important for you. Do
not forget when you arriving here at and and then
(29:58):
I never forgot. So you have the technician, and you
had Happy and now you have Yourbert. Where is he stand?
Where is he lie? So Gilbert knows how to cook fish,
and his fish is delicious, and I'm learning from him.
But I have learned already a lot from my previous
chefs and mentors, and I muster pretty well all the
(30:20):
techniques that are used at Lebernardre. So Gilbert basically says
to me, look, I want you to be the chef here.
You're going to be in charge of managing the team.
For me, it's something very new, because until then I
was managing very small teams, like two guys with me
in my station. Suddenly I'm I'm basically in charge of
(30:41):
a kitchen of forty five cooks or something like that.
At the time, it's something that was completely new. And
Gilbert was very kind and very patient and very supportive,
and he let me make all the mistakes. Always always
defended me and and stood up for me, knowing that
I was wrong anyway, It meant her meaning like that,
(31:03):
and it was my luck. And I worked with him
for three full years until he passed away. Very sad day.
I remember that, how did you reconcile with that where
you then became the person? How do you replace someone
that's such a dynamic person. What did you think to
yourself at that time? If you can remember, It was
(31:24):
very difficult. But Magilos called me a few days later
and she said, look, my brother always told me that
he trusted you to run his kitchen, and I would
like for you to to now run the kitchen on
your own. And I don't want to create a museum
to the memory of my brother. I want you to
continue to create and find your style and your voice,
(31:47):
and I'm going to support you, and we are going
to keep it down out there, open, and we are
going to make it better than ever. Wow, what a
remarkable lady to see that. That's a big leap. But
obviously she's a very smart lady, because look what happened
top fifty in the world, and you've taken it from
that pressure laden restaurant in Paris, and you moved through
(32:11):
the ranks and you just came up with your own
style and actually happened the way it was actually supposed
to happen. Yeah, sometimes you know, destiny is full of mystery, right.
But I am very grateful to be at lebernarda. I'm
having fun. Of course, we have been challenged throughout the years,
in between nine eleven and a good recession and lately
(32:33):
the COVID and so on, but I still have tremendous
joy in being in Le Bernard and working with the team,
and it's extremely motivating, rewarding. Of course, the ultimate goal
is to create an experience and the delicious meal to
our clients, and that makes me happy. But you also
you've given that if you let your staff shine. I
(32:53):
think you've let what Maggie do to you to your
other people with Aldo and it's such a fun place
to be and it's you've made it very unpretentious, I
must say. And that's you feel. I think you said
you were grateful. You feel the gratitude, you really do.
Your staff loves you, and you feel the gratitude they
have for what they what they're doing. They're able to
have this incredible experience and work there. Thank you. Yes,
(33:16):
I mean I really try to create an experience that
is warm and friendly, and restaurants, fine dining or not,
should be always very welcoming, and it should be always
we are here to please, right, I mean, they don't
come to the better then to be miserable. They come
to to have good food and to have a good time,
(33:37):
and that makes it interesting. For our fourth and final course,
I got to ask Eric about how he finds contentment
and the way he keeps himself anchored in a fast
paced world. But first I wanted to hear more about
his inspiration behind his latest cookbook, Vegetable Simple. I've read
(33:58):
a lot about you, your books two Yolks, and this
wonderful book, this best seller, Vegetable Simple, which is it's
actually so simple, it's almost I'm like, I'm looking in
the recipe, I'm like, that's all there is. Let me
like clicks that again. There's only four ingredients, and like, yes,
treated with respect for ingredients is absolutely enough if you
have a really good product, and so that that thank
you for doing that, because it really is vegetable Simple.
(34:19):
You really restrain yourself. Yeah, thank you. It's inspired really
by my lifestyle outside the restaurant and by my childhood.
And when I entertained in Hampton's in the summer, I
go to the farm stand and I get inspired by
the vegetables that I see. And then I entertained and
I put a lot of different dishes on the table
(34:39):
that are very easy to make and and that pay
respected to the ingredients of great quality. And then I said,
why not make a book like that? Well, it is amazing,
and I you know, I was watching your Instagram during
the pandemic, but you're putting out things like rat TWI
you made like uh, mozzarella dish and uh. It was
(35:01):
just so inspiring to see you cook things like with
such simplicity and elegance. It was like wow, Yeah, I mean,
overnight I became the private chef of the family. The
restase was closing, and I was in charge of breakfast, lunch,
and dinner, and and therefore I had to go shopping
and and then I was creating food for the family
that was nutritional and well balanced and at the same
(35:25):
time that was delicious, because I cannot have my family
saying that my food is not delicious, So I was
putting a lot of passion in it. So you've had five,
i think five or six books. You know, you've won
so many accolades, and you really love just doing one
one restaurant. You really love this, and I still respect
that about you. There's very few people that are very like,
(35:46):
just you really love doing this thing. What is it
that makes you want to say? You know what? This
is great? I love this. I want to continue this.
I just want to keep getting better and better because
it's such a stressful environment. Yes, of course it's stressful,
but as you know, Jeffrey, we'll learn how to manage
to the stress, and we'll learn how to strive on
the stress, and and so on. For me, I came
(36:08):
in this industry because I love eating, I love cooking.
I love to be with my team, and I love
to create an experience. I never came in in our
industry because I wanted to become a model, and I
didn't think that I was coming in this industry to
open fifty restaurants. Not like it's wrong. Obviously, I admire
(36:29):
where as fifty restaurants, and if they are happy, I'm
I'm super happy for them as well. And for me,
it doesn't do it, it doesn't make me happy. I tried, actually,
and I didn't like to be in a plane. I
didn't like to be in a train. I didn't like
to be away from my house. I didn't like to
be away from the kitchen of le Bernard. And I
(36:49):
didn't like to lose not the control, but basically the
influence that I have in the kitchen or in a
team when I am here. I didn't like the distance
and so on. So they afore I decided that Lebernard
and was sufficient. And I think I have learned over
the years how to recognize contentment. And I am content.
(37:10):
And when you are content, why do something else? So
where are you moving to? What? What is your your
mental state, in your spiritual state? Saying about where the
restaurant has to go, where you have to go, and
where you have to lead your team, because you have
to be going somewhere. Right, You can't just stay still, Yes,
especially in New York, if you stay still, everything moves
(37:31):
forwarth so fast suddenly you are going backwards. So you
have to always evolve. But evolving, for me, it's instinctive.
It's a reaction to what's happening in fashion, to what's
happening in technology, to what's happening in the world around us,
and I respond to it in a creative way, in
(37:52):
an artistic way, by changing lebernardance slowly but surely, and
changing the way we hook, the way we deliver the
experience to the client, by renovating the dining room. By
all of that text a lot of time, and then
I have a lot of pleasure doing books. I did
a bit of TV at one point, and I loved it.
(38:14):
It was fun. It's always something going on. I am
very busy, just evolving and learning and and so on.
And also I have the luck to basically divide my
my time to find balance. I dedicate a third of
my time to the business and le Bernard and and
so on, a third of my time to my family,
(38:36):
and a third of my time for myself. And by
doing that, I find balance. And I believe that if
you have time for yourself, like just being selfish, you
will be a better family member. Family support you. Therefore
you will be a better boss, and the team support you,
and therefore you can again support your family better. And
(38:58):
it's a circle, is a cycle, and all of that
it's a blessing for me to feel like that and
to be able to play with an instrument, which is
the restaurant, the way I want to play. It's like
almost like a miracle. So therefore, I'm never board. I'm
always motivated. I always have projects and visions and I
(39:20):
accomplished them. I have challenges, of course, a lot of it,
and you can see that in my white hair. But
it's fantastic. It's life. I mean, I just love the
way you said that. I think, honestly, some balance is hard.
The recipe of balance, I tell people it's very hard.
You're always putting out fires and you're always there's three
balls in the here all the time, so you really
(39:42):
it is juggling. But the way you put it is
more spiritual than juggling. So it's sort of a spiritual juggling,
you would say. But I really believe that when you
do bring energy to your family, you have a better family.
You're able to support and make your partner better. If
she can be better, your family can be better. You
you you got their back, And that's really what I
(40:02):
hear a lot of people talking about. They say, well,
what's the what's the hardest thing to do is just
the really make everybody around you better, and it's probably
why you're so content because you're always doing that. Yes,
and and again it's not easy every day. Obviously, it's
challenging in a way, right, but it's fantastic to try
and to succeed and to see the results, to try
(40:24):
to find systems for your employees for them to have
happiness and have also some balance because in our industry,
as you know, Jeffrey, it's a lot of people who burn,
and they burn because they don't have that balance. So
we we have to create that to protect ourselves and
to protect the people that support us, and that may
make us successful because our families and team are our success.
(40:51):
Without them, we are nothing. As you know. The thing
for me we're just listening to is it's extraordinary. I
think that endure, that remote little place in the south
of France and the smell of Basil, I think it
affected you deeply, and I think that you try to
recreate that, and you have recreated that, and you're you're
very fortunate, but you've not gone through all the things
you've gone through. So my hat's off to you, and uh,
(41:15):
thank you so much for spending time with me on
Four Courses. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jeffrey
for having me, and thank you thanks very much for
listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey Zcrian, A production of
I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment. Four Courses is
created by Jeffrey Zcarrion, Margaret Zecarrion, Jared Keller, and Tara Helper.
(41:40):
Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses is produced
by Jonathan Habs Dressler. Our research is conducted by Jesselyn Shields.
Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent.
This episode was edited and written by Priya Maha Davon
and mixed by Joe Tistle. Special thanks to Katie Fellman
(42:00):
for help as recording engineer. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
My name is Jeffrey Z Carreen and you're listening to
four Courses with Jeffrey Z. Carrion from I Heart Radio.
In four courses, I'll be taking you along for the
ride while I talked with the top talent of our time.
In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from
my guest life and career. And during those four courses,
I'm going to dig deep in and cover new insights
(00:26):
and inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves
to push forward. My guest for this episode is a
world renowned chef. He built his career working for some
of the oldest and best restaurants in France, and today
his flagship restaurant in New York City ranks as one
of the best in the world. Without further delay, let's
get into my conversation with Eric Repair and jeff For
(00:50):
our first course, I wanted to ask Eric what parts
of his childhood drew him into the kitchen. He spent
his early life gathering fresh fruits and vegetables from local
markets and a part of the world most of us
can only dream of vacation. I was born in on
Teabe and then my parents live in um next to
can and then to Saint Tropez, and so I was
in the front review for about nine years here. So
(01:12):
when you think of like those times when you visit
back there, what smell or memory of smell or food
when you walked into your house grabbed you. What do
you remember walking into your house now that once in
a while you walk by another restaurant, like you know
that smells sort of like what was cooking in my
house or what we did all the time. What I
remember the most, it's the smell of the basil, the basil,
(01:37):
because over there is so vibrant. You can be like
fifty yards from the market and and from the stand
and you can smell the basil or the sweetness of
the melons or something like that. If at home I
have basil from the garden, or I have some melons
that I never put in a fridge by the way,
so they don't lose their flavor, then it minds me
(02:00):
the market. So how old were we about them when
you realize that that smell was like intoxicating. I was
very young. I was maybe four or five years old,
because my grandmother was taking me to the market every day,
you know, like in France, that the generation was going
to buy the bread every morning and whatever they needed
for the day, and the day after they were going
(02:22):
back to the market again and visiting the butcher and
stopping at the vegetable stand and some days going to
the fishery and so on. So it was you know,
they took but takes an hour or two to do
that every day. I mean, it takes time and you
have to do it, but you get the ability. First
of all, I believe that buying more often you you
spend less because you getting much smarter and you have
(02:43):
an inventory in your head about what you have, so
you don't you're not buying you know what, I'll just
get it anyways in case I need it. You don't
do that. That's not in case I need it. You know,
you buy what's on sale or what's fresh or what's
in season, and you buy a lot of it and
you eat that for three or four days. Yes, it's
fantastic because you are so connected with the season just
by visiting the market, just by talking to the people
(03:06):
who sell their products. And sometimes we talk about seasons
like the spring and the summer and the fall, but
the beginning of the spring is very different than the
middle of the spring at the end of the spring,
so we we were connected to the season. Just by
doing that, we knew exactly when was the best tomatoes
of the year, of the best strawberries, or the sherris
(03:28):
when the season was starting and so on. I grew
a vegetable garden this past year and never had done
one for a long time, and it was so much work.
And I had forgotten once zucchini comes, man, you're gonna
be eating zucchini a lot because it all comes on.
It's yes, it's the same for the salads. Right. This
year I planted some salads, and what I forgot is
(03:49):
that all the salads comes at the same time, and
so you get the same romane or the same letters
in huge quantities. What I like about it is that
we eat a lot of it because there's delicious, But
we are also connecting with the neighborhood because we give
them some salads and they're happy and they give us
(04:10):
something else and so on. There you go, and that's
what it's all about. So, so your grandmother went to
the market, did your mom monique r your mom's monique, right? Yeah?
And my mother was her name is still Monique, yes,
And did she go to market to or was she
just doing preparation and her mother helping your buying and
all that sort of stuff. So my mother was going
(04:32):
to the market as well, but not the way my
grandmothers were going to the market. So I had an
Italian grandmother and a provincial grandmother and they were going
there on the daily base, and it was like soul
food from their region northern Italy and the region of
province near Avignon. And my mother was going to the market,
(04:54):
but she was buying slightly differently, and she was very
inspired by nouvelle cuisine and by what chefs like Paul
Bocuse and Michelle Gerrard and all the generation we're doing.
And she was cooking for us very elaborate food. So
it was slightly different in terms of preparation and shopping. However,
(05:14):
for me it was a blessing because I was exposed
to salt food and I was exposed at the same
time to something that it was very refined. And I
didn't know that I was privileged. I thought every kid
in the world was eating exactly like me, and so
didn't really you like you wanted to do something in
the food world, or did you have college on mine
(05:35):
on your mind, or did you want to, you know,
learn a trade. Well, I was obsessed with eating because
I was so spoiled and my experience were so powerful,
and I was always trying to get inside the kitchen.
But nobody led me because they claim I would thrash
the kitchen or leave some disaster there. But I was
(05:55):
very young. I was five, six seven years old, obsessed
with the kitchen. Not necessarily to really work hard in
that kitchen. I wanted just to play a little bit,
but I wanted to eat well, and that's why I
was there. And then when I became older, instead of
studying in high school, I was reading cookbooks and I
(06:16):
remember Paul bocus Are like within the Marche and and
so on, and I was reading recipes. Therefore I had
bad grades, right, And because I had bad grades, at
one point they called my mother and said, your son
is really, really bad in school. He has to find
what they call in friends, vocational college. And I was like, yeah,
I'm going to culinary school. That's what I want to do.
(06:36):
I want to cook and I want to eat well.
And I no no idea how hard it would be
to go to a clinary school and study because as
you know, we are not born with knife skills and
all those those important details. Right, yes, but you're you're
into at this time or you still on the side
(06:57):
of France. So I was living in a principal of Andorra,
but the school was in Perpinion, which is the south
of France, which was about three hours by cal from
where I was living. So I was in that school
and they had a reputation of being tough. All the
teachers were coming from the the yacht Le France, and
(07:18):
that boat was very iconic in the seventies and eighties,
and those guys were very well trained and very tough.
So they were training the cooks in the in the
school with a lot of rigor, which is of course
beneficial at the end, right, And they knew their craft
very well. I had very good teachers, but I was
not the best cook in the class. There was a
(07:40):
lot of kids that were really excelling. I was doing
a good job. I was really bored in culinary school
because my parents were taking me to the best restaurants
in France, and I was exposed to grid cuisine and
then in culinary school, we were learning the basics, which
is normal obviously, and so the basics a mayonnaise and
vinegar it and sas beshamal and and things like that,
(08:02):
and I was like, oh my god, this is so boring.
So I was not that excited, but I was cooking
pretty well. So then they decided that I was a
great waiter because the first year in cleanery school you
had to be a waiter a little bit for part
of the weekend in the kitchen for about It's a
business in the business. So they tried to push me
to become a waiter, and I didn't want to do that.
(08:24):
And a big accident happened at the end of the year,
just before they took their decision. I basically dumped on
top of a general from the French army a trail
of cocktails, and and then it was not enough. I
had to go back to the table because the teacher
told me I had to go back. And then I
served the table, and when it was time to serve
(08:45):
his wife, the trail tilted and the glass fell on
the neck of his wife. And that was not over again.
They told me to go back to the bar and
come back so I I came back and I slid
on the ice cube that was on the floor, and
the trail went back on the table and that was
sent forever in the kitchen for the second year, and
in between, they send me in training to work in
(09:07):
a very tough kitchen to make sure that I had
a passion and the fire for cooking, which I had,
and I started to really enjoy being an in those
kitchen and then I graduated and moved to Paris. In
(09:36):
our second course, I had to understand how Eric's career
as a chef took off when he arrived in Paris, because,
unlike most people straight out of Connory School, Eric cut
his teeth at one of the most renowned restaurants in France,
latur Jon. In fact, the institution celebrated it's four d
anniversary the very year Eric started. They were basically the
(09:56):
first restaurant that introduced the fork in rents because the
King didn't want to eat with his fingers anymore, and
they created the fork, and uh, he was going there,
the restaurant of the King. I never knew that. That's incredible.
So four years or so, two six D something, I mean,
that's just unbelievable. Yeah. During the French Revolution, because it
(10:20):
was a sign of royalty, they basically burned the restaurant
and destroy it, but they rebuilt it again on top
of the ashes of the old restaurant. And then in
the beginning of the twentieth century the name changed from
Latin became Cafe only so Jan. So what's Tota Jan
(10:40):
is known for other than it's incredible seller. It's like
located on top of like I think it looks over
Notre Dame. I think I haven't been in a long time.
And they have the famous Tacolo range or the duck
per se correct which the giant doctor gets smashed. Did
you do that? Did you learn that process? Were you
there long enough to go to the entire station? Yes?
(11:01):
I was. I was, so I started and I was
seventeen years old. I was the youngest coup in the kitchen,
not the most brilliant one, I have to tell you,
because coming from culinary school, going to a brigade like
that is a definitely a culture whole change and the challenge.
But I did all the stations except past three because
they put me in pastry and one afternoon while everybody
(11:22):
was away I ate twenty five raspberry tartlets and I
didn't know they were counting them, and they kicked me
out of the past three. I never went back, but
I did all the station from from the fish station
to the duck station. Don't they have a number system?
I remember back then they had how many ducks they sold,
and then they had like a prize. I believe at
(11:43):
one point, not too many years ago, that there was
the one million duck or something like that. Yes, they
reached the one million. So each time that someone eats
a duck, they gave him a postcard with a number.
I have to tell you don't believe that story because
I burned so many ducks and they didn't issue numbers
for them. One day, I went for the family meal
(12:05):
and when I came back, it was flames coming out
of the hood. It was twenty four ducks burning in
the oven. Oh my god, I mean duck. People understand,
duck is a dangerous animal. I mean, there's so much
fat on them. They're very You've got to really understand
how to coca duck. It's easy to overcook it, but
probably cooked ducks so the leg and the thigh is
(12:26):
almost impossible. Probably if you haven't been to a lot,
Toldo Young, I would put it on anybody's bucket list.
I don't care how many stars it has now. It's
just such a spectacular place to go. And it's just
it's like you feel like the movie rather too. You
know that when they sit down and you look it
over the Paris. That's what it's like. It's that magical.
It really is. Yes, it's one of the most dining
(12:47):
room in the world. Actually, I mean you have a
view of Notre Dame de Paris. It feels like it's
it's in the dining room basically made of gigantic windows,
and it's amazing. On inside, you see the lascent, which
is the river and and Paris and Notre Dame. And
on the other side you have those kind of what
they called duck theaters, which are like small areas that
(13:11):
look like a mini theater where the waiters are cutting
the ducks and they are preparing the ducks and making
the sauce with the press and so on. I mean,
it's it's one of those very unique experience. And then
they have one of the most beautiful wines set over
in the world. I mean, it's i was very young
when I saw it and I understood it. I would
love to go back again, and just taking it as
(13:31):
someone who just wants the experience. And I remember what
I remember was going up to the window and seeing
the barges going by all lit up and people are
having dinner on the barges as they were going down
the scene. I'm like, this is just magnificent. And that
was like I thought, it was like, wow, it was
a show that we was just doing it. No, that's
how it's every day like that. It's just it's a lifestyle.
(13:52):
Back then, I think it was three stars. Yes, if
I'm not it was. So you went from you know,
Colninary school to a couple of places three stars. That's
a big leap. A lot of people work a long
long time before they gave recruited for a three star restaurant. Yes,
but in my mind there was no other way. I
wanted to work in a three star restaurant. I didn't
(14:13):
want to work in anything else. So when I graduated,
I went to buy the Michelin Guide and it was
eighteen restaurants in France that at three stars, and I
sent I wrote by end of course, at the time
it was no computers. I wrote eighteen letters saying, hey,
I'm a re repair I just graduated, blah blah blah,
I'm seventeen years old. I wanted to work in your kitchen,
(14:34):
and nobody answered and and finally a month and a
half later, I received a call and it was a
suche from lad Brand who said are you repair? And
I said, yes, I am repaired. While we got your
letter and we have a job for you. And I
said when, Yeah, great, okay, when can I start? And
it was a Friday afternoon and I remember because I
(14:55):
was coming back from ranging in the forest for Portugue.
And the guy said, well, I need you on Monday.
In between Friday afternoon and Monday, we were able to
find an airline ticket. I made my suitcase and I
was in Paris in a subway on Monday morning on
(15:16):
my way to rang. I just hearing that, I get
chills because when you get to the door, you know,
the hallway to the kitchen is always fluorescent, like it's
not pretty, it's always the feeling is like you're out
of body feeling. It's like where am I? What's that
so foreign? You're not in any comfort zone. Whatsoever, and
you're like, at the same time, you're like, oh my god,
(15:36):
this is amazing. Yes, it was amazing and fascinating. But
I was so scared because I was pretty protected in
my lifestyle because Andorra is a very small country. Everybody
is happy. I have never seen professional kitchens. It was
all about reading in books and dreaming about it and
(15:58):
so on. And suddenly you are in that kitchen with
thirty or forty cooks. And when I walk in that kitchen,
they were already like in full speed. It was eight
o'clock in the morning, but the stocks were boiling and
the guys were working and running and so on and
and actually I was very surprised. Nobody was my age.
(16:18):
They were all like twenty five thirty years old, and
they look at me like I was someone coming from
a UFO. And uh, it was very intimidating. But I
mean after a couple of days, I mean, was it
just like You're like, oh my god, it's pinched me
because you know you're at some place that's extraordinary. Yes,
I was extremely happy and challenge at the same time,
(16:42):
because when you come out of a culinary school, as
much as you believe that with your graduation. You are
a great cook. When you work in those restaurants, you
realize you know so little and you make so many
mistakes and so on, and you the challenges are enormous.
It was a very intense experience for me, but I
have no regret at all. I will do it in
(17:03):
a heartbit. Yeah. I So what's the first station that
you worked? Where did they put you first? Obviously didn't
work a station. And then what was the first time
when someone noticed that you were really very capable and
they're like said, okay, let's you know, the world got
around that, you know what you were doing so specialized
(17:24):
in ducks. However, they put me in a fish station.
H And the fish station it was not so easy.
I mean you had to take care of yourself of
filting your fish and taking care of the shellfish and
making your sauce and garnishchees and so on. So I
was helping the main chief in that station, and I
(17:44):
had a lot to learn. I mean from making an
lands with thirty two yolks that became scrambled eggs after
on my first day, after an hour in that kitchen,
to cutting my fingers, slicing shallotte again on the first
day was the beginning was a bit rough. But after
I would say three or four months, finally that came
to me and they said, you know, we believe. Now
(18:07):
now it's time for you to move to the next station.
And that was a big deal. When they were moving you,
it was like a very big compliment. You were accomplished
in one station, you could go to the next and
learn something else, and then you were moving again and
again and again. So the fish station. So you're at
the fish station, is there anything now knowing fish like
you know now? Was there anything there that stood out
(18:30):
knowing what it was then as being exemplary since they
weren't known for fish. Yeah, I thought that the way
they were preparing fish was extremely light and very original. Actually,
the chef Dominick Bush at the time was trying to
change a little bit the reputation of Latron and get
(18:50):
away from the ducks and have a reputation for a
broader cuisine. So it was really putting a lot of
efforts into the fish station, which was my luck because
we we're using a lot of different techniques. It was
a blessing because I really really started my love for
cooking fish in there. It seems like like looking back
at your career, like told Jean, could have been a
(19:13):
place that really cemented fish for you, even though it's
not known for fish. I mean I never ate fishy
to Jean, No, because nobody, I mean, if everybody hits
the duck. However, again, the fish was really delicious, and
I really started to enjoy very much cooking fish because
when you cook meat, and I love I don't have
(19:34):
a preference in between meat and fish or vegetables. When
I cook, I cook with my heart and with my
knowledge and and so on and my instinct. But when
you cook meat is a very sensual way of cooking, right,
But when you cook fish, it's a very sensual way.
But also it's a very technical way. And I love
the fact that you have to be so focused because
(19:55):
ten seconds could be the biggest mistake and the fish
becomes are cooked and he has no flavor and so on.
The meat is much more forgiven you cooked meat an
extra minute, you don't have consequences for the fish. You
have to be so cautious, and you have to be
so cautious also with whatever goes in the plate, because
the fish is so delicate. That any ingredients could overwhelm
(20:18):
the qualities of that filly of fish in the plate.
So I learned that from La Daran and moving to
Robbie Shaw and to other restaurants, I learned that respect
for the techniques and for the ingredients, and especially for
cooking fish for our third course. I wasn't just gonna
(20:47):
let Eric class all the time working with world class
chef Joan robber Shan at his restaurant jam Robbishan ran
one of the strictest kitchens in the business, and I
wanted to know how these extremely high standard shaped Eric's
style as a chef. Tell me about Jamain. I mean
I remember eating a Jamin and then I remember the
next time I had his. This cuisine was the Latalier
(21:07):
and he did a very big deal. But tell me
about the working as German, Like what, you were assistant
chef the party, which is a big deal. Yes, So
he hired me um as the chef the party. So
after a chef the Party, which is like, it's a
pretty good title. I mean, chef the party means you're
responsible for a station. And I was actually in garde manger,
(21:29):
which is the cold pitier section, and I was in
charge of Garde Manger. With him, Joel Robbie Jamain was
doing miracles every day. And he's the most rigorous, knowledgeable,
precise and demanding chef that I have ever seen in
the world. To this day, he's no longer with us,
(21:51):
but he was considered God at the time and his
his entire career, he was extremely respected for the fact
that he was probably with Freddy Rillard Gerardin in Switzerland,
considered the best chef of the planet. So I walk
in Jamin and I come. I'm coming from lat Dar ground.
We are about thirty cooks in La round. We do
(22:13):
and read and something cover the night. I go at
rubbish round. We are about thirty cooks and we do
fourty covers. And everybody start at six o'clock in the
morning as a break of half hour in afternoon and
we end up at midnight at the earliest, or sometimes
one or two o'clock in the morning. And that is
five days a week, so you basically have four hours
(22:34):
to go to your house, take a shower, have breakfast,
brought your teeth, put some clothes, come back. So tell
me why, tell me what you saw that was remarkable
that stayed with you. Robbi Shawn was caring so much
about the attention to the detail, and he was the
first and I think the only chef that I know
(22:55):
who was able to bring the precision and the stat
of the cuisine that they do in competitions. But usually
that cuisine in competition is not really delicious. It looks
beautiful and it takes three days to make, so three
days later your fish is fishy, obviously. But Robi Shaw
was able to bring that exercise of making competitions and
(23:19):
he won all of them, and he was bringing that
in the plate, and it was done in a timely
manner for the clients, and everything was super freshy, and
we had the best thing radiants and so on. So
it was basically mission impossible. You were going to robbish
On knowing that you will not be capable to make
him happy and to meet the standards. However, you will
(23:43):
try to get as close as you can, and it
will take you hours and hours and hours of work
to try. And at the same time you knew he
would never be happy. Just amazing. So I remember I
remember distinctly the ravioli languesstea u. This is amazing. Jeffrey
that's ravioli of langostein. You know, we were making the
(24:05):
ravioli when you were ordering. So you were saying, I
want an order of ravioli, which was on the bed
of cabbage with flua grad trafle sauce. Right, you had
some guy running with some lingos tein's, going to the
pasta machine, making the door, putting the langosteins in it,
poaching the langosteins in a broth. And while someone was
(24:26):
doing all that, we were preparing the cabbage, and we
were preparing the flag. Oh my god. That was the
way Roby Shron was cooking for his clients. So imagine
we were, yes, thirdly cooks for four recovers, but you
were ordering one order of langostein and you had three
(24:46):
or four guys involved for fifteen minutes just for you.
And then he was touching the revoli with his finger
and sometimes the langostins wouldn't be as firm as he likes,
so we will have to read the dish. It was
an interesting time. How long did you stay there? So
I stayed one year and then I was struggling because
(25:08):
it was really really challenging, and I was called to
go to do my military duties because it was mandatory
at the time in France. So I went to see
him and I told him that I had to live
because I was called. And he said, don't worry about it.
I'm going to send you to the Eliza. You will
cook for the President of France, but you're staying with
me for now. And I said, very flattering. It was
(25:31):
very flattering, but I said, no, I cannot do that
because I really have to go back to the south
of France. So anyway, let me go. And on my
last day of my military duties, I thought it was
a joke. I received a call at the office of
the sergeant and the sergeant said, you have a call.
Is Joel Robby Shaw on the phone? And I was like, yeah,
(25:51):
sure of course, and I grabbed the phone and it
seemed and he says to me, he says, I hear
that you're finishing your duties and so on. I have
a positive for you. Would you like to come back
at jama and you will be the chef person in
charge of the fish station. And I said to him,
thank you so much. I have to think about it.
And he said to me, of course, you have thirty
(26:13):
seconds and you can imagine in thirty seconds how many
things goes in your head. And of course I had
to say, yes, I had no choice. So therefore I
was back with him again for two more years in
a fish station. So tell me how he cooked fishback then?
How did he use his poal? What did he do
about he roast palet jose? What did he do? So
(26:37):
he was identifying the qualities of the fish in his mind.
He knew that some fish are better when they are
poach or steam. Some fish are better when they are
soute and the skin is crispy. Some fish needs to
be backed and hauled and then potentially of the boat,
and so on. We were using all those different techniques
(26:58):
we had about I was six different recipes of fish
on the menu as main course. They had, of course
different source and different techniques and different garnishes that were
all meant to elevate the qualities of the fish. And
that is what I learned with him before I came
to America. It's how to elevate the qualities of every
(27:20):
individual shellfish and and fish that we are cooking. So
I mean, you came to us eighty nine, what the
hell was on your my New has been the Second Revolution.
I remember eighty nine. It was it was crazy. New
York City was crazy to eighty nine. I was in Washington.
Disease it was not the word at all because politicians
and lawyers are pretty boring at night. However, I was
(27:42):
with Georgean Riparadan, great great Jean Riparada was an extremely
creative chef. It was kind of a hipy gypsy, crazy, fun,
creative guy. And I learned so much from him because
he said to me said, look, you come from Robbish,
from kitchen, and he he made you a great technician.
(28:02):
But basically you cannot create anything. You can only duplicate.
So he said, I'm going to take care of you
and I'm gonna make you creative. You have to open
your mind. So Jean Louis was on a mission to
make me creative with all the techniques that I had
to related from La. That's a deadly assassin, right you have,
knowing Judo and carrying an M sixteen. So anyway, if
(28:28):
I can make a comparison its own analogies like coming
from Catholic school and going to Woodstock directly. Anyway, I
was having fun in the kitchen with Jean Riparada, but
I didn't want to stay in Washington. I was very young,
and I was very attracted by New York because it
was a lot of things happening in New York in
every industry, and and the city is always very active,
(28:51):
as we know, so I wanted to party as well.
So I came to the city and worked for David Boule.
I worked with him for eight or nine months, and
then Sheberlocas offered me the position of being his chef
the cuisine, and I came to Lebernarda. How did he
know about you? Did he know that you worked in Robberation?
Did they have a hotline into all these new guys friends?
(29:15):
So Shelberlacaus wanted to replace Elbera Miller, who opened Lebernardan
with him in nine six, So it was one and
he called Jean Upaada in Washington. They were good friends,
and Jean Louis said, I had this kid in my
kitchen now is at Boule, but I think he can
do the job. Try to get in touch with him
and we will see if he can go to lebernard
(29:35):
And and become the chef. I started actually Junie leven
at seven for the am of and I remember because
I look at my watch, the energy was very strange.
I felt it was something very special. My sixth cents said,
this restaurant's going to be very important for you. Do
not forget when you arriving here at and and then
(29:58):
I never forgot. So you have the technician, and you
had Happy and now you have Yourbert. Where is he stand?
Where is he lie? So Gilbert knows how to cook fish,
and his fish is delicious, and I'm learning from him.
But I have learned already a lot from my previous
chefs and mentors, and I muster pretty well all the
(30:20):
techniques that are used at Lebernardre. So Gilbert basically says
to me, look, I want you to be the chef here.
You're going to be in charge of managing the team.
For me, it's something very new, because until then I
was managing very small teams, like two guys with me
in my station. Suddenly I'm I'm basically in charge of
(30:41):
a kitchen of forty five cooks or something like that.
At the time, it's something that was completely new. And
Gilbert was very kind and very patient and very supportive,
and he let me make all the mistakes. Always always
defended me and and stood up for me, knowing that
I was wrong anyway, It meant her meaning like that,
(31:03):
and it was my luck. And I worked with him
for three full years until he passed away. Very sad day.
I remember that, how did you reconcile with that where
you then became the person? How do you replace someone
that's such a dynamic person. What did you think to
yourself at that time? If you can remember, It was
(31:24):
very difficult. But Magilos called me a few days later
and she said, look, my brother always told me that
he trusted you to run his kitchen, and I would
like for you to to now run the kitchen on
your own. And I don't want to create a museum
to the memory of my brother. I want you to
continue to create and find your style and your voice,
(31:47):
and I'm going to support you, and we are going
to keep it down out there, open, and we are
going to make it better than ever. Wow, what a
remarkable lady to see that. That's a big leap. But
obviously she's a very smart lady, because look what happened
top fifty in the world, and you've taken it from
that pressure laden restaurant in Paris, and you moved through
(32:11):
the ranks and you just came up with your own
style and actually happened the way it was actually supposed
to happen. Yeah, sometimes you know, destiny is full of mystery, right.
But I am very grateful to be at lebernarda. I'm
having fun. Of course, we have been challenged throughout the years,
in between nine eleven and a good recession and lately
(32:33):
the COVID and so on, but I still have tremendous
joy in being in Le Bernard and working with the team,
and it's extremely motivating, rewarding. Of course, the ultimate goal
is to create an experience and the delicious meal to
our clients, and that makes me happy. But you also
you've given that if you let your staff shine. I
(32:53):
think you've let what Maggie do to you to your
other people with Aldo and it's such a fun place
to be and it's you've made it very unpretentious, I
must say. And that's you feel. I think you said
you were grateful. You feel the gratitude, you really do.
Your staff loves you, and you feel the gratitude they
have for what they what they're doing. They're able to
have this incredible experience and work there. Thank you. Yes,
(33:16):
I mean I really try to create an experience that
is warm and friendly, and restaurants, fine dining or not,
should be always very welcoming, and it should be always
we are here to please, right, I mean, they don't
come to the better then to be miserable. They come
to to have good food and to have a good time,
(33:37):
and that makes it interesting. For our fourth and final course,
I got to ask Eric about how he finds contentment
and the way he keeps himself anchored in a fast
paced world. But first I wanted to hear more about
his inspiration behind his latest cookbook, Vegetable Simple. I've read
(33:58):
a lot about you, your books two Yolks, and this
wonderful book, this best seller, Vegetable Simple, which is it's
actually so simple, it's almost I'm like, I'm looking in
the recipe, I'm like, that's all there is. Let me
like clicks that again. There's only four ingredients, and like, yes,
treated with respect for ingredients is absolutely enough if you
have a really good product, and so that that thank
you for doing that, because it really is vegetable Simple.
(34:19):
You really restrain yourself. Yeah, thank you. It's inspired really
by my lifestyle outside the restaurant and by my childhood.
And when I entertained in Hampton's in the summer, I
go to the farm stand and I get inspired by
the vegetables that I see. And then I entertained and
I put a lot of different dishes on the table
(34:39):
that are very easy to make and and that pay
respected to the ingredients of great quality. And then I said,
why not make a book like that? Well, it is amazing,
and I you know, I was watching your Instagram during
the pandemic, but you're putting out things like rat TWI
you made like uh, mozzarella dish and uh. It was
(35:01):
just so inspiring to see you cook things like with
such simplicity and elegance. It was like wow, Yeah, I mean,
overnight I became the private chef of the family. The
restase was closing, and I was in charge of breakfast, lunch,
and dinner, and and therefore I had to go shopping
and and then I was creating food for the family
that was nutritional and well balanced and at the same
(35:25):
time that was delicious, because I cannot have my family
saying that my food is not delicious, So I was
putting a lot of passion in it. So you've had five,
i think five or six books. You know, you've won
so many accolades, and you really love just doing one
one restaurant. You really love this, and I still respect
that about you. There's very few people that are very like,
(35:46):
just you really love doing this thing. What is it
that makes you want to say? You know what? This
is great? I love this. I want to continue this.
I just want to keep getting better and better because
it's such a stressful environment. Yes, of course it's stressful,
but as you know, Jeffrey, we'll learn how to manage
to the stress, and we'll learn how to strive on
the stress, and and so on. For me, I came
(36:08):
in this industry because I love eating, I love cooking.
I love to be with my team, and I love
to create an experience. I never came in in our
industry because I wanted to become a model, and I
didn't think that I was coming in this industry to
open fifty restaurants. Not like it's wrong. Obviously, I admire
(36:29):
where as fifty restaurants, and if they are happy, I'm
I'm super happy for them as well. And for me,
it doesn't do it, it doesn't make me happy. I tried, actually,
and I didn't like to be in a plane. I
didn't like to be in a train. I didn't like
to be away from my house. I didn't like to
be away from the kitchen of le Bernard. And I
(36:49):
didn't like to lose not the control, but basically the
influence that I have in the kitchen or in a
team when I am here. I didn't like the distance
and so on. So they afore I decided that Lebernard
and was sufficient. And I think I have learned over
the years how to recognize contentment. And I am content.
(37:10):
And when you are content, why do something else? So
where are you moving to? What? What is your your
mental state, in your spiritual state? Saying about where the
restaurant has to go, where you have to go, and
where you have to lead your team, because you have
to be going somewhere. Right, You can't just stay still, Yes,
especially in New York, if you stay still, everything moves
(37:31):
forwarth so fast suddenly you are going backwards. So you
have to always evolve. But evolving, for me, it's instinctive.
It's a reaction to what's happening in fashion, to what's
happening in technology, to what's happening in the world around us,
and I respond to it in a creative way, in
(37:52):
an artistic way, by changing lebernardance slowly but surely, and
changing the way we hook, the way we deliver the
experience to the client, by renovating the dining room. By
all of that text a lot of time, and then
I have a lot of pleasure doing books. I did
a bit of TV at one point, and I loved it.
(38:14):
It was fun. It's always something going on. I am
very busy, just evolving and learning and and so on.
And also I have the luck to basically divide my
my time to find balance. I dedicate a third of
my time to the business and le Bernard and and
so on, a third of my time to my family,
(38:36):
and a third of my time for myself. And by
doing that, I find balance. And I believe that if
you have time for yourself, like just being selfish, you
will be a better family member. Family support you. Therefore
you will be a better boss, and the team support you,
and therefore you can again support your family better. And
(38:58):
it's a circle, is a cycle, and all of that
it's a blessing for me to feel like that and
to be able to play with an instrument, which is
the restaurant, the way I want to play. It's like
almost like a miracle. So therefore, I'm never board. I'm
always motivated. I always have projects and visions and I
(39:20):
accomplished them. I have challenges, of course, a lot of it,
and you can see that in my white hair. But
it's fantastic. It's life. I mean, I just love the
way you said that. I think, honestly, some balance is hard.
The recipe of balance, I tell people it's very hard.
You're always putting out fires and you're always there's three
balls in the here all the time, so you really
(39:42):
it is juggling. But the way you put it is
more spiritual than juggling. So it's sort of a spiritual juggling,
you would say. But I really believe that when you
do bring energy to your family, you have a better family.
You're able to support and make your partner better. If
she can be better, your family can be better. You
you you got their back, And that's really what I
(40:02):
hear a lot of people talking about. They say, well,
what's the what's the hardest thing to do is just
the really make everybody around you better, and it's probably
why you're so content because you're always doing that. Yes,
and and again it's not easy every day. Obviously, it's
challenging in a way, right, but it's fantastic to try
and to succeed and to see the results, to try
(40:24):
to find systems for your employees for them to have
happiness and have also some balance because in our industry,
as you know, Jeffrey, it's a lot of people who burn,
and they burn because they don't have that balance. So
we we have to create that to protect ourselves and
to protect the people that support us, and that may
make us successful because our families and team are our success.
(40:51):
Without them, we are nothing. As you know. The thing
for me we're just listening to is it's extraordinary. I
think that endure, that remote little place in the south
of France and the smell of Basil, I think it
affected you deeply, and I think that you try to
recreate that, and you have recreated that, and you're you're
very fortunate, but you've not gone through all the things
you've gone through. So my hat's off to you, and uh,
(41:15):
thank you so much for spending time with me on
Four Courses. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jeffrey
for having me, and thank you thanks very much for
listening to Four Courses with Jeffrey Zcrian, A production of
I Heart Radio and Corner Table Entertainment. Four Courses is
created by Jeffrey Zcarrion, Margaret Zecarrion, Jared Keller, and Tara Helper.
(41:40):
Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Four Courses is produced
by Jonathan Habs Dressler. Our research is conducted by Jesselyn Shields.
Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent.
This episode was edited and written by Priya Maha Davon
and mixed by Joe Tistle. Special thanks to Katie Fellman
(42:00):
for help as recording engineer. For more podcasts from I
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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