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September 11, 2023 69 mins

When PUSH comes to shove, Rob Thomas reveals he wrote love songs when he was young, not for the fame but to pick up on girls! 

Of course, he did go on to find much success as the lead singer of Matchbox Twenty, the multi-platinum, chart-topping band with over 40 million records sold worldwide! He talks to Lance about the struggles of 'making it,' including being homeless at one point, life on the road then versus now, and his band releasing a new album in over a decade! 

Plus, what he thinks of his son following in his footsteps and his thoughts on Ryan Gosling's cover of "Push" in the "Barbie'' movie. Is it Kenough?

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is Frosted Tips with Lance Bass and my Heart
Radio podcast. Hello, my Little Peanuts, it's me your host,
Lance Bass. This is Frosted Tips. Everyone with me and
my husband Michael Churchin. Hello there, Turkey Church into bost
that's right, gobble gobble. I hope everyone has recovered from
their Labor Day weekend. We sure have. We had a

nice little relaxing weekend. It was celebrating some friends getting engaged. Yeah,
it was nice to get away because we didn't really
have much of a summer vacation. No, apart from our
rich road trip, which was amazing. Home. We drove the
one on one. Used to do that every year. I agree.
I can't wait for the kids to get old enough
to be able to go traveling with us. I can't.

I want to be a camping family. I will be
a glamping family. We can be a glamping family. Camp
But we have to pitch a tent every one, for sure,
one of those daddy family tents. Oh that's somehow you
put air air mattresses in there. Let's get like a
balcony with the jacuzzi. Yeah, they sell at home devo,
but how fun will it be to have like because

we don't let the you know, kids sleep in our
bed because we don't want to start that habit because
we have so many friends are like, don't do it.
I know so many friends and kids an now are
like three four and they're still sleep in their bed.
And it would be hard for twins because one of
them is gonna be jumping around. Its just it would
be really hard and I don't want them to get
that happy, although I just wantsperately want to sleep next
to them. Oh my, soon once they're I mean they're

not even two yet, so once you get bigger a
little more. But I feel like this would be you
knowing you're forced to have to like snuggle it. Okay,
I'm down. Let's go right a little tent. I mean
we could practice at first in our yard. Oh yeah,
we can just go. Yeah, I've always I used to
do that as a kid. Well not all the time,
we did it maybe twice has It always started out

as a good idea, then you have to like pee
in the middle of the night, and then you're like
and then you just go to your bed. So your
friends like, you know what, we're gonna camp out, so
you know, you pitch the ten your friends are back there. Yeah. Yeah.
Two in the morning, you're like, I gotta pee, I'm thirsty,
and then you go straight your bed. Yeah. Yeah. I
would do that a lot as a kid. I would
always put pitch a tent to my parents balcony on

their bedroom and just sleep there. That's it always sounds
like a good idea. That just doesn't that way. Guys.
Today we have mister Rob Thomas song. Yeah, we got
a good, good one. Oh my goodness. Yes, he's not
an official boy band, but he was a boy in
a band. Yeah, so it counts. Of course it counts
because you know, we're again, we're gonna run out of
boy band members, so we got to really start stretching

out a little bit. Yeah, but he's had it such
a great career. Started at the same time as we
did nineteen ninety five Orlando, Florida. Yeah, I would say
we're people really compared us. It was hard to twenty
and sing, you know, it wasn't back didn't say it
was always twenty and sing. It's like who's who, like,
we can't tell hard. No, they were great dancers. I

know for the longest time I thought you were and
we played great. And I thought your name is land
Space because you're the bass player of Matt's Box twenty.
I thought it's true. I thought it was just a
stage name. Yeah. Uh, but we definitely went in different
directions and they did quite well. Yeah, he's that was
just reading. He's sold. He's sold over eighty million records,
including the ones he's written. That's a lot. That's good.

Someone's got some good royalties coming his legs. We're going
to ask him unless he got screwed like everyone else did.
I think he's good. I think you've been doing it
this long. You're gonna be making some good ass cap
deals there, all right. So when we come back, we're
gonna have the only, the one and only, the only
a Rod pub is but not this cool. I don't know.
It's a very rare name. I would think, Uh, Robert

Kelly Thomas is going to be with us Matchbox twenty
and I think you know helped. I mean in the
late nineties, remember the Latin explosion happened, Yes, and then
Smooth with Santana right in the middle of that. This
is what's solidified, like the Latin influence on the music,
and all it took was a German born American singer

named Robert Kelly Thomas. Be right back, mister Rob Thomas.

How are you are you doing? Man? I'm doing good.
It's been I've seen you. I love it. Everything good.
Where are you calling from? On my studio here in
New York? All right? Nice? Have you lived in New
York loan? Yeah? About twenty five years? So twenty five
years nine. When I met my wife, we were like, uh,

we lived on the bus for like three years because
it was the first record, kind of just going through
all the first record stuff. And so when I got
off the road, I didn't live anywhere and we were together,
and she was from New York. So we moved into
the city and we were there and then we moved
up to Westchester. While back Nice, we love it. That's
when when my husband here, Michael by the way, Rob,
when we met, I was moving from LA to New York.

So a month after we met, I'm like, well, this
isn't gonna last. But then somehow it did. I think
long distance really made the heart fonder. As they say,
all right, well let's get started, shall we. I could
talk to you for hours, but we only have one
hour with you. All right. Robert Kelly Thomas American singer, songwriter,
multi instrumentalist, best known for being the lead singer of
rock band Matchbox twenty. Thomas also records and performs as

a solo artist. With Lonely No More, released in two
thousand and five, he had even more chart success now.
He has received three Grammy Awards for co writing and
singing on the nineteen ninety nine hit Smooth by Santana,
which was also his first song as a featured solo artist,
and he's also been a songwriter for artists such as
Willie Nelson, Mick Jagger, Mark Anthony pat Green, Taylor Hicks,

Travis Tritt, Daughtry has some good names, right there, Rob Thomas,
Welcome to the show. Hey man, that's you know what.
I can't leave it right there tonight. I'm gonna ask
is that it's all that true? Yeah? I mean all
of it. I think that we were smudging multi instrumentalists. Yeah, Well,
what's your favorite what's your favorite instrument to write on? Uh?

You know, I love writing on the guitar, right but
I'm a limited skilled guitar player, so eventually I wind
up having to move out to the piano because like
I'll hit a chord that I don't know and I
wanted to go and I know that I can find
it on the piano because I'm a much better piano player.
Oh nice, nice, Well let's start at the beginning. Now,
I know you were born in Germany because your dad
was in the Army. Where in Germany were you born?

So in launch school and on the Romstein Air Air Base.
You know that we heard a lot about that during uh,
you know, during pretty much any war because that's where
they take all of the soldiers when they're anywhere from
anywhere in Europe. So I think it's an actually an
air force base, but it's shared by the army. Oh nice. Yeah,
we because instinct we started at Orlando obviously first, but

then we have to Germany. And you did the opposite
with Germany to Orlando. So so what brought y'all to Orlando?
It's funny, Louke Proman, it was so weird. Wait now,
he first time, I think, you know, like nobody's really
from Orlando, right, like everybody wanted up there. My for me,

it was like middle school. You know. My mom had
a job in banking software at a company in Orlando,
and so that's we just happened to move there. So
we just kind of happened to be there, and that's
where the band started, but only because that's where I was,
you know, when I graduated high school. Yeah, was it
hard for you to move to a different country at
such a young age? No? Act, So actually, I mean

I was like freaking two, Like I kind of left
as a baby, and then that was because you don't
really remember too much of that, yeah, exactly. So I
went straight from there to Fort Jackson Army Base in
South Carolina, where that's where my mom and dad lived.
Then my mom and dad got divorced when I was
like two, okay, and so I was like in South
Carolina for a long time and then over to Florida. Yeah,

And I mean I've read where your childhood and teenagers
were pretty difficult. Uh. You know, like so many artists
that we know, you dealt with homelessness to abuse, and
it's amazing to see where you are now with the
rough start that you had. Where did you find the
drive to actually pursue music through all that? I mean,

I think you know, there was always that point. I
think when you're going through stuff like that. And at
that young age too, where you're you're kind of the
precipice of things going really really good or really really bad,
and so like I was kind of falling down the
wrong path. And I met musicians, you know, at a
really young age, like I think I was a freshman
high school. They were seniors. But I just it spoke

to me in a way, like my first band. I
remember my first band, I think we were called Bondage.
We played, we played like a pool party at a
friend's house, and I remember our first song was I
Just Died in Your Arms tonight, Like that was the
first song that was man. I was just like, oh,
this is great, and it was kind of it just

spoke to me in a way that nothing else had.
And then I didn't really have any other skills, and
so I didn't really have a lot of backup plans.
So even when I started to kind of work in
bands and take it seriously and you know and gig
out on weekends and stuff, I just started to make
it where I would take any job that would never
become a career. So I learned how to do everything
in construction and everything in restaurants and everything you know,

delivering and making futons and like anything that I quit
on a Friday if I had to, and then get
a new job on a Monday. That's right. I've always
wondered when you're when your first band Bondage, which, by
the way, did you name the group Bondage? I'm sure
I did. What music were y'all doing at that point?
Was it still rock? I mean yeah, it was. It

was like alt rock. Like the guy so the guy,
this guy in case I'll Attract You was the keyboard player,
and he was kind of like the music s Bengali
of everything. He was the guy that kind of pulled
everything together. He knew what he wanted to do. He
was getting ready to go to Berklee College of Music
the next year, and he came like straight from Italy,
like his family is street Familiy and really spoke English
and so like he had this kind of cool European style.

It was all Cavalicis before we knew that Cavaricis where
he was all like. But but he brought over like
depeche Mode and all these other bands and all these
all bands you know, and kind of turned me on
to the cure and and and you know, all those
these different things, and so he was kind of the
driving force behind it. I wasn't even writing yet. I
was just singing these songs that he was writing right now.

You Tab of the Secret was another band that you
were in right before Matchbox twenty. When did When did
Tap of the Secret start? So I think that was
probably like ninety two, Like that was when I was
I was starting to write songs and I wanted a
band to play these songs that I was writing, and
that has that had me Paul and Brian all from

Matchbox twenty. We're in that with two other guitar players.
So that was kind of like the beginning of everything,
and then we that band. It's it's really interesting because
you know, you know, they tell you have your whole
your whole life to write your first record, and then
the sophomore record is kind of the hard record several
times on the show. Yeah, yeah, And so I lucked
out in one way because we we had a huge

litigious falling out with the with the guitar players in
this band, and one of the things that had happened,
you know, I was kind of naive in a lot
of ways, like we all are at that age, and
these guys we just I had written about a bunch
of songs, and these guys kind of walked in the
room with these copyright papers and we're like here, just
signed these and we all signed them. And I didn't
realize I was signing a way all these songs that

I had written to just into the band. And so
when things got really, really bad and really contentious at
the end, I except for three Am Dream was a
song that I always felt close to because it meant
a lot to me. It was like one of the
first songs that I wrote that I really felt people
should listen to. I abandoned everything else, every other song

that we had worked on, and I wrote that first
Matchbox record in like a six month period, like I
put it all together, and just I didn't. I just
didn't want the satisfaction of them, you know, me making
a record. And then the best thing that happened because
listening back to those original group of songs, they were
dogshit and I mean like there, like I wouldn't be
sitting here having a talk with you twenty seven years
later if it's my first you know, entry into the world. Yeah,

now I feel the same way like with with the
insect guys. We did not get signed to America early
because no one wanted to sign. I said, I'm so
glad they didn't, because if they listened to our first stuff,
there's no way people would have accepted us. We would
have been dead in the water. I know. It's so funny,
like there's a certain time where you you are better,
like you are showing promise at a certain age, but

you're still kind of following. Yeah, and you you know,
and we had a chance, and I say, you and
I back coming from what I call the last good time,
right of being able to kind of build that up
privately like a mask, get yourself better, figure it out,
and then you controlled the point of injury to where
people saw you and how they saw you and how
you you brought that information. Now, you know, we could

still at least until like two thousand, you know, we
still kind of you could kind of control the way
that you wanted to be. I mean, it was really
hard work. You know, it took forever to you know,
get a single out, go to every radio station in
the country, and you know, travel and get everyone to
pay attention to you. But you're right. I loved the
fact that we were able to start small local league,

get the radio station in Orlando to like us. Then
see if anyone else outside that. Uh. These days, yeah,
a kid can put a song on TikTok and it
blows up overnight. But then they're like, wait, I don't
even know who I am, I don't know what my
sound is, what's coming next? Yeah, it can be. And
I mean a lot of those kids, it's hard for
them to find, you know, a live audience. It's hard
for them to kind of embed themselves in that way
that we were allowed to do. Yeah, I mean it's

so funny, like how there's so much Like if I
was young now and looking at the world, I would
be amaze of the access that I had to my
artists and freedom that I had to choose my entertainment
and how I wanted to listen to it and what
I wanted to hear, and listening to bands that I
never would have gotten to hear if it was only
like these three places where you could find music. But

at the same time, there's so much happening at one
time that it's it's so hard if you're young and
you have a machine behind you. It's hard because the
entire world is watching you from the jump the minute
that you made that brand you with who you are.
And if you're like a young kind of independent band,
you have all these opportunities now that you wouldn't have
had before. But it doesn't there's nothing there to kind

of boister you up so that you get to the
next record and the next record and that kind of
progression the way it's supposed to happen. Yeah, Well, like
you said, I mean, I think we were a part
of the last great generation of music before it just
kind of got the you know, the business got weird,
which every business does, but you know, our business really
went through a change in the late nineties early two
thousands with how we listen to music, how people get signed.

You know, back then labels actually developed, but now they're
just pr firms. What's the major thing that you've noticed
and the last you know, twenty five years of what
has changed just for you personally in the music industry. Well,
I mean, I think one of the things is is
how exponentially quick it starts to change right in Like
what like I remember when we first came out having

the conversation whether or not. We thought we needed a website, right, yeah,
just wait and see, like is this gonna take off?
I don't know. Yeah, it's cool. I mean like having
these conversations because when we started out, it was like
your press kit for labels was you had a folder
and it had like a set inside of it and
some flyers, some gigs that you've done, and maybe a
couple of bumper stickers, you know, and then the doe

that to labels and that's what they were used to
getting and so and it took like, you know, a
decade for that to kind of change into like, oh,
we're gonna do things online. But then it took like
three or four years, so like, oh no, we're only
going to purchase music online. And it took only like
three years. So I was like, oh no, we're not
going to purchase music at all, We're just gonna listen
to it online. Now, like we're I am having conversations

with my label about the fact that they're disappointed because
my record, our record, the last Matchups records sold really
really well physically, but it's not streaming well. And I
think it was five years ago where they were just
like I just you know, you're everybody's listening online. But
we got to get those numbers up. Like there was
a complete change within like a four or five year
period where now I went into the same president of

our label and she's like, really just thinking about algorithms,
like this is the algorithms, and this is what's going
to search better. This is what you know, and it's
not I try to not be the you know, the
old guy like all back in my day. Yeah, but
so fast and gets harder to wrap your head around,
you know. And so my son's twenty five years old.
He has a band right now called The Lucky. He

graduated from Berkeley College of Music, and he is way
more equipped for this new world than I am. You know,
I understand you know what he understands what he's doing
with TikTok, and you understand why that matters, you know.
And I think it's a it's a good balance, you know.
It's taking the new and paining attention of what is
having algorithms that type of stuff, but also bringing just

that old school look at ed music and what really works,
because yes, numbers are numbers, but you can't quantify feelings,
you know. And I think a lot of the times people,
You know it is right now. As a songwriter, I think,
look how songwriter has changed the last twenty years. Uh.
You know, back in or day, you know one or
two songwriters. Great, now there's twenty twenty writers to one

major song. You know, one person to do like half
of the B verse, this will do the last. You know,
it's it's like frankinstrack together. Do you think that is fair? Once?
First off? And uh? And and as a songwriter, are
you taking care of these days with numbers and all that.
You know what we're doing with the sag stright All

the actors are trying to get a piece of what
they deserve. So are writers as music called up to that. No,
I mean I think you've I'm sure you've been a
part of this. You know when you go every year
ass cap or B and I and you do the
march on Congress. They're trying, you know, talk about the
exact same you know, term limits that every artist has
had since the beginning of the music industry, like since

the sixty whereas every other entertainment industry has kind of
changed what you know, what their contracts are. They turned
in like seven year terms. We don't have any of
those things. And then all of this was happening while
streaming became the number one way of listening to music,
and there was not one consideration for artists, you know,
Like I remember when when labels hated working with Spotify,

and now they love it because they get a really
good chunk of everything on Spotify. But nothing's been worked
out for the artist. And so if you're a performing writer,
you're a little bit better off because you have those
performing royalties. But in truth, like I remember sitting with
the guys from ask Cap and going through like Smooth
was a good example because it was like one of
the most streamed songs of the decade or whatever. And

even with those numbers, if you were the other writer
that wasn't the performer and you and all you have
was you're writing credit. I think it made like sixteen
thousand dollars from streaming. It was like nothing. We're like,
you know, it would have been a billions and millions,
like he should be able to pay his kids college.
But now because no considerations for streaming, you know, as

a writer and purely a writer, uh you know, those
those guys, it makes it way. I can't understand the
incentive now to want to be a writer. Yeah, that's
like Benny Blanco or somebody, if you're gonna write with
their track, you're gonna automatically get fifty percent of that track.
You know that that's the only way that you're going
to do it because as a writer, he realizes he's
going to bring a lot to the table, but he's

not going to get a lot out of it, right, right, right,
I know, it's uh, we have It's It's funny how
you know. I'm in the film and television and I'm
in music, and just comparing the two, there's a lot
of similarities. But I do think music is always behind.
I mean in some ways, and I say this, and
I say this, I think more than an ambassador to
everyone who's coming up and the people who haven't maybe

had as many lucky breaks as I've had, because I mean,
I've done well. I'm hearing this really nice house in Westchester,
so I'm not complaining. But on the overall picture, take
me out of it. It's always been like my wife says,
that there's you know, there's a certain gravitas for all
the entertainment industry and then music even though it's a
driver of so much. Is like the bastard son of
the entertainment house. It's so true. Behind and get the

scraps and try being in a boy band. In the
music industry, you're like the prior of the music industry.
Oh yeah, it's like can you. I mean, people't imagine,
Like right now, the movies start to, you know, show
just a small crack in the facade, and everybody starts
to come to arms, like we must protect the movies,
we must protect the movies. And then like a while back,

someone said, you know, I just don't understand why we
need to pay for music at all, and nobody was like, yeah,
you know, I get that. That's stially true. I think
you should be free. I think the whole world should
have it. And you're like, yeah, but you know what
about yea, the person that made it, mortgages and things
like that. I mean, I love art too. Maybe should
just have free art, right, yeah, exactly, your art away
for freem Yeah, let's go to souther Bees. Let's have

a free fl Okay. So, in ninety six, you released
your debut album yourself or someone like you, on the

same day that the record label folded U. It only
sold a few hundred copies. So what did you guys
feel like at that moment? Where did you think your
career was gonna go? When you're like, what are the
odds your album coming out? And then folding this Wow,
and everybody was getting dropped. It was on lock because
I think it was like bands like Steve I Think,
Who Me, Sugar, Ray, Kid Rock and Edwin McCain like

four that they stuck around and everybody else got dropped
and we kind of folded into Atlantic. One hand became
thought our career was over obviously, yeah, because also we
had a song out called Long Day and it was underperforming,
so that didn't help the situation. And we uh, there
was another part of this store that was like we

had sold six hundred and twelve records and we thought, wow,
we never sold six hundred records in a week. That's amazing. Yeah,
I know, if you sell those those mini CDs at
a concert, you're like, yeah, it's like a month work
of shows. Yeah. And then I mean we so we
were we were sweating it out and we were still
out playing, you know, we we we had been since

way before the release, you know, in the van and
trailer playing every shitty little club. It was funny because
you think that the deal is to get the record deal,
like that's your main goal, this this aspiration that you have,
and you realize that you just have to now do
the exact same work but harder and over, like the
entire actually starting all the way over. But you don't
really have any money because all that money you got

from the advance goes back into the product, right, so
like that went back into a van and trailer, and
that back into paying salaries and gear all the stuff
that it took. So like we didn't really have money
even though we had had this advance. We're traveling around
playing the nobody and so I literally so for us.
There was a station in Birmingham, Alabama, and a program

director named Dave Rossi. So back in it, you have
to imagine that it's a time where radio stations could
play songs because they liked them. Right. There was no
computer kind of telling you what the playlist has to be.
There's no right front. It was just a dude who
was like, oh, I like this song, push and he
just started playing in a lot in Birmingham and it
became like the number one song in Birmingham and we're

playing all to all these empty places and get to
the five Music Hall and there's a line around the
block and that was like it was like a film
in that way, and that from that moment on, every
week expanitions got bigger and bigger and bigger, and we're
starting to like see these numbers and then you're like
people are having these conversations about you when you're not
in the room, and that felt good. Uh, and so

then we from that point on it was a pretty good,
steady success, but it was it was touching at the
beginning there, and like we were saying before, that's what
I call the wave, right, you know, one town a
song will start blowing up, and then the wave starts
and it starts growing and growing, and you just follow
that wave. You ride it. So by the time you
get you know, if it starts on the East coast
and you get to the West coast, you've written it

for like six months, Like finally you know you can
see the height of the song go up and down
all the way across the country. It's it's a fun
thing to say, but I don't know if that happens
this day. It's like almost thirty years later. The one
thing that stayed consistent is the place where we seem
to do the least is our hometown. Always, always, absolutely, like,
we don't even go to Orlando anymore because we don't
sell enough, like to you know, we can go to

Tampa and sell twenty six thousand seats you know at
the Amphitheater, ye sell nine thousand in Orlando. What is that?
Because same thing. I mean with every band that I've
talked to, the same thing. Or in Orlando that was
the least visited concert ever was always we would do
Tampa for law Ordelle. We know we do Orlando every
once a while, but yeah, like no one really cared

and maybe just because they know you so well. But
I also feel that way in La too. La is
always the worst show too, because everyone's a little too
industry and you know, they're just too close. It's always
been pretty good, especially considering that we're you know, a
nineties band, and also it got better like within nostalgia. Yeah,
definitely a sense of like, you know people because now

it's it's a lot of those people that came because
those people that were are my age anyway, they're like
in their seventies now, and their kids are coming and
their grandkids are coming, and so there's like this kind
of different kind of a resurgence. It's oh yeah, now
last run and and it's so great. Yeah. But it's

fun to see this researchen because one, I constantly feel
like I'm just twenty one years old at all times,
and I can't believe it's not nineteen ninety nine anymore.
But the research is especially of push right now. I
mean Ryan Gosling has you know, has covered your ear song?
And uh, I thought did to me this The performance
from Ryan was, you know how like impersonators impersonate Share?

I think this was his version of like really trying
to impersonate you and like the most exaggerated possibility, who
impersonates me? Share? Yeah, that's always said like this Isa
had a baby like everybody And and I understand too
it because like, especially like that first record I was
had a deep Southern accent, you know, so there was
a lot of like your car was that Share And

it's funny everybody does that like it's it was such
it was so earnest. It's kind of like yeah, and I, uh,
I mean, honestly, I don't know, like if I have
a bigger crush on the male or female lead and
that just to see that face sing my words come

out of that mouth, Yes, yes, I love it. Would
y'all ever a Fisher recorder due out of this, that
would be amazing. I wouldn't do anything he asked me
to get. Okay that I that I'm still awaiting. He
that he asked for my home address because he wants
to send a present to my house. Oh my god,
that's awesome present. Maybe it's because you know, he sent

greta girlwig for her birthday, a flash mob to her
exercise class, so maybe it might be a flash mob.
Just be watching out for that. That would be amazing.
I think a lot of people forget that he has
a great singing voice. I mean, he was on the
Mickey mouse Club, so I mean he's people forget that
he was a singer first before going Now that's true.

That's what he was like right there with Justin and everybody. Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah and Brittany. The fact that Disney does
not bring back Vickey mouse Club because they used to
bring it back every twenty years, right, Well it's been
way past twenty years, the talent that game from there,
why would you not bank on just redoing that show
to create the next super It's true because like you know,

if you argue, like if you think about all of
the years of American Idol, there's only been a handful
of people that really the voice with the most famous
judges of all time, I don't know they've ever really
broken and the best talent. But yeah, they don't break
any artist. I'm sure you get this guy's because if
you ever spend any time in Australia and you know
about any of these Australian actors, every one of them

was either on a show called Neighbors, Yes, called Home
and Away, Yeah, and two of the worst fucking soap
op you're ever going to see in your life because
it's an hour of like two people sitting in the
room having a cigarette. But ever, if you name a
famous Australian actor or act they came out of that
right there. Like that's that's what Mickey Mouse Club could

continue to be its true Or like the east Enders
in England, Like I feel like EastEnders in England as
a looking back, as you know, a teenager, would you
have ever auditioned for a show like Mickey Mouse Club.
Would that have been your your cup of tea? No,
I don't think so. I mean because I was I
was never for me. It was all about writing. Yeah, yeah,

you know what I mean, Like I was, I overcame
my fear of like being in front of people so
that I could sing the songs that I wrote. And
I always kind of felt like, now, if if I
couldn't find a career at this, I would just go
away quietly, you know, like I'm not gonna wind up
on Dancing with the Stars and I'm not gonna wind up,
you know, somewhere else, trying to keep it out in
the spotlight because I only want to be known for

the thing that I do. And I was also driven
by like that need, you know, I was I didn't
know where I was going to go. I didn't have
any other options, Like I was just driven by this need.
And then the songs like they kind of like it
was a snaky in its own tail. It was the
need created the songs, and then the songs created the opportunity,
and then you know, it just became so much about

that that like I just didn't have I didn't. I
never had enough self worth to be like, oh, I'm
gonna try out for something and get it. What made
you feel that you had, uh, that you were worthy?
Was there a moment you're like, Okay, I'm good at this. No,
I mean I'm still working with my therapist on that. Yeah,
we all are. Yeah, that's a hard wi worthy is
a really hard thing because you're I think if I

equate the amount of work that I've done, you know,
I think that if you you know, I've worked really
really hard, and so there's a certain amount of deserving
this that you have because you put the hours in.
I think that I'm a good songwriter. I'm plagued constantly
by great songwriters, you know, by like like waking up
one day and just hearing something that I'm just like,
it looks like math again, even though it's just a person,

of course, but for some reason, it's like some sort
of weird math that I can't get my head room.
It's just so it's just so beautiful, like when when
a Lord came out with Royals. I mean you could
break it down to its parts and you know exactly
what it is. It sounded like an alien just coming
out of the you know, because it's so perfect about it.
I mean maybe that's the idea too. It's just never

it should always be a faulterizon that you never quite
get to because you're always kind of trying to chase it. Yeah,
that makes true. Would you remember the first song you
ever wrote? Yeah, it was well, I think it was
a song called how Long Can a Dream Last? And
I think it was actually do you remember that when
the rock star guy Jamie Something came on to Melrose Place? Yes, yeah,

I do actually, which is weird because I was more
of a nine o two one oh guy, But I
do remember this. Yes, when that was what I thought
was like, you know, as we were getting older and
we just started to maybe outgrow because I'm a little
older than you, but like as we started to outgrow
nine o two one h R's Place was like, oh,
we're here for you, come on over. Yeah. Yeah, it
was graduation hit a single called how Do You Talk

to an Angel? Well, because when we all when we
all started, that was the song that was out because
I remember when we lived in Germany, Jamie would you know,
do all the radio shows with us and all that,
and we always thought he looked. I think he was
like Chris kop Patrick a little bit at the time,
was it a little bit? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So basically
it was that song because I was like all the

songs I wrote were just bad versions of Lionel Richie songs, right, Like,
I was trying to like write love songs to pick
up girls because I was a weird kid and I
didn't really fit in. I got along pretty much with
a lot of groups, but I didn't fit in. Yeah,
so I would like go to these you know, like
house parties in high school and like somebody's parents would
go out of town and just we would you know,

just ascend onto the house and I would have, like
if they had a piano in the house. I had
a copy of the Lionel Richie Greatest Hit Songbook on me,
and so like I would say, like all the jocks
would like drink and pass out and they would leave
me with all their girlfriends and I would just playing
like Lionel Richie songs, just trying to you know. Yeah.

Years later, I ran into Lionel Richie at a at
a hotel and it came over to him. I was like, man, listen,
you know, I just want to say hi. And he
was really nice and generous, and I said, you know,
I gotta tell you your your songs have gotten me
so late. He goes, and he goes me too, I
mean imagined. Just imagine how much sex Lionel has created

in this world because it is a lot. There's a
lot of babies out there because of your Lionel, a lot.
And you forget how incredible Lionel is. We just saw
him at the Heart Festival last year or two years ago,
and I mean love Lionel, right, but when you when
I saw him, I was sucked back in. I'm like,
oh my god, Yes, this is why you're a legends.

What other legends do you love? Like? What? What? What
inspired you? Well? I mean, you know when so when
I was growing up, I was in South Carolina, in
the Deep South, So it was like Willie Nelson and
Whale and Jennen's and Conway Twitty and like all these
kind of like like tree storytellers. Right, there was something about,
like these guys they lived these really hard lives. You know,
they were drinking and fighting and fucking and doing drugs.

But then they wrote these beautiful songs about it. You know,
it's just weird, you know, dichotomy of these of these
two worlds. And then when I moved to Florida and
I was in like middle school, high school, it was
that second English invasion. So it's all of these alt
bands that were coming over from you know, London. We
were all Anglophiles for a second and like and then

it was all about that for a while, and then
you know, I went through the punk phase. It was
all like Black Flag and Dead Kennedy's. So it's kind
of like these different, you know, phases of my life.
But the consistence no matter what I was listening to,
you were like Lona Richie Elton, John Billy Joel, Tom Petty,
I was always one. And I mean Willie and Willie

stayed there as well, and the Stones, you know that
kind of thing. It was all it's still just stayed
centered around songwriters from me. Yeah, I was just thinking, I, yeah,
you're definitely in this picture. And remember the Grammy picture
we took with I think Dave la Chappelle. Oh yeah,
it was the big like it was tr MTVTRL put
all their Grammy nominated artists together in one picture. It

was the only time they did it because it was
impossible to get all of us together. But yeah, you
guys were there. I believe I think everyone wasn't I
was in there. Yeah, there was Matchbox during that time
because that was yeah, it's two thousand. I believe it
was like Diddy and Brittany, like the four Blessed Crowd
girls before Destiny went to three. Yeah, yeah, it was yeah,

it was a it was a it was a very
It was a fun day. But I need to put
that picture up. It used to be in your office.
Oh well I don't have an office anymore. But yeah,
that was a that was a fun day. When do
you remember the moment you found out you were Grammy
nominated for the first time. Yeah, I remember my my
manager calling me and saying, I mean, you know, like
we everybody knew that that Supernatural was going to be

a big Oh nominated. You're kind of the reason the
Latin you know, music exploded in the late nineties. Well,
I think we were like a second wave, right of
an explosion, because it was it was posting Ricky Martin. Yeah,
yeah there right, yeah, yeah, Ricky, Yeah, that was that
started right there. Ye. At the Grammys, they were like,
who is this guy, that'd be an amazing but I

think you know, there was a lot of really good
songs that year, so when it came to songs, it
was kind of you know and again like you just
never really kind of put yourself in that thing. I mean,
you guys have been there before, but I'm surely when
it first started to happen, you're like, well, what's not
going to be us? Like like you really did think,
what's pleasure to be nominated? You know, it's just nice

to be in the conversation. Yeah, yeah, we're still saying
that after nine nominations. Yea has never wanted anything either.
I mean, yeah, it felt it felt really good. And
what's funny is, you know, me and Carlos then we
were pretty tight. But so did y'all know each other
before Smooth or did Smooth during that whole year you know,

like recording and doing all the promo and we did
all these you know, filming together, so we had spent
a lot of time together. But now it's funny, like
he texted me five minutes ago, like and he just
sends me like songs that he's listening to or new
stuff that he's working on, or like pictures of him
from the road, you know, like like we'll like we're

just two old men, you know each other. Our wives
are making fun of us because we're like up on
the road, what are you up to? And He's like,
I just fucking burned Chicago to the ground. I would
we ever see you guys doing a tour together in
the future. We talk about it all the time. Yea

we have is that neither one of us wants to
play first. Yeah, well you can do the whole jay
Z Beyonce thing they did it. Yeah, well, I like
I also said that I will I'll play first, because
it's Carlos like, you know, I'll come out and yeah
and play first. But then Carlos was like, yeah, I
need my two hours, and I'm like yeah, but I
need my two hours four hours. So we're thinking out

maybe one offs but the next movie. Maybe do a
record together. Yeah. We never really did was take a record,
like write a whole new record of all originals and
then put it out, you know, but not just like
twelve smooths, but you know, try and see what it
sounds like. That would be so incredible and the timing
is perfect. I mean, now is the moment. You know,

it's like, uh, everyone is just really wanting to feel
good again, you know, and go back just a few
years where it was felt safe and you make people
feel safe. I'm like a fucking hug. Yeah, you are
a hug. You are a great hug. So this also

gave match by twenty some more visibility ahead of the
second album. Uh and you also change the name to
match Bucks twenty spelling out twenty. Why don't you do that?
I mean it was more of a joke, like, I mean,
we just we just like we started liking it spelled out.
It looks classier to us, you know, and we don't
that we were like tired of being compared to bands

like like Blink one eighty two or like you know.
But then people didn't get the joke. I remember like
opening up Entertainment Weekly or something, and there was like
a we were the the like the the dick of
the week or whatever they call it, you know, and
the guy was just like, how dare they think they
would ever be compared? You know? It was that was

the joke. We changed our name from Matchbox twenty to
Matchbox twenty, Like that was the That was the joke.
I love that. That's so great. Well, in two thousand
and four, Songwriters Hall of Fame awards you with the
first how David Starlight Award. How David, for those that
don't know, is a prolific songwriter. I mean, name some songs.
I mean he did so much like and I mean everything,

walk them by much everything. I mean for decades was
like he was the Bernie toppin yeahs Elton, he was
that for for Burt exactly. Uh, when you knew you
were going to get this, uh, this award? What went
through your head? Because I mean, you're a songwriter first,
and I can imagine you know, the Hall of Fame,

Songwriting Hall of Fame, you know, honoring you with this
huge award. I mean you must have gone back to
when you were a twelve year old and be like,
oh my god, I did it. Yeah, I remember, I was.
It was. It was the best thing since Matchbucks twenty
won their first Jammy. Yeah wait, what's a Jammie? Don't
know what jammie? It was like Orlando Magazine. In Orlando,

the lag was jam Magazine, okay, and so like and
every year they have the Jammies, which is like the
local band it was like a big deal. Dude. They
hold it at the type of ware center, so it
was you know, pretty fucking that's legit. That is legit
for that. Yeah, we were never nominated for for a
Jammi Jai jammies. We did, we did, but so no,

I mean that was obviously it was very cool because
I was in a room full of people that, you know,
songwriters are a funny breed because some of them we
all know, and then some of the most famous ones
you wouldn't recognize on the street. But we were, you know,
so like us. There were like Mickey Newberry and all
these people and You're just like, wow, this is you know,
these are my people. So that felt good. Looking back
at your career thus far, is there a moment that

just really sticks in your head? You're like, ah, that
that that is my favorite moment. I mean, there was
something beautiful about the very very beginning, you know, the
van and trailer time, Like right at that Sally Fields,
they like me, they really like me. Yeah, But the

cheesiest answer of all, I mean, like, I like, we
just got off the road and we got along. We
had the longest tour you ever had. We got along
better than we've ever gotten along. We played the bigger
numbers we've ever been playing too. So I mean maybe
it's now, you know what I mean, This ability to
like work and do my solo thing and then be

able to work on the Matchbox thing, and the fans
being generous enough to let me go back and forth
and kind of patient with me and and being open
whatever it is I have to say in either place,
we have to say. You know, in the case of Matchbox,
like I think there's something you know, you put so
much into something at the very very beginning, the hope
is that you're putting equity into the future. And so
I kind of feel like, you know, anything that you

and I did that that was happening where you were
a part of the national conversation for a minute, Like
that was you buying that currency that you could spend
later on no matter where you are. So even if
like maybe we're not a part on, you know, of
every conversation now, we're just kind of there and we're
soilrified and we haven't initiated a group of people that
care about Yeah, it's called being an icon, rob an icon. Yeah,

I was looking for I was going I was gonna
was gonna say demigod, but okay, but it is true.
I say a lot of times my favorite moments were
the beginning because it was that that hustle, in that fight,
and it really bonded you with your brothers and you know,
you were all in it together, just trying to prove
to everyone like we deserve to be here. And then

I can only imagine years later, when you know you've
established that fan base and you kind of do whatever
you want, that now you tour for different reasons. You know,
you're grown up, y'all have kids, you know, you just
you just look at life differently. I can imagine it
goes a little smoother this this time around. Yeah, I
mean everybody nobody's eating is precious about you know, their

ideas as they used to be. It's pet these out
now then we're all you know, then the world's gonna
end or even worse, My idea is the only idea
that counts that mutality. Like when you guys, what year,
what year would you say, like was the year that
it broke for you guys? Well in America nineteen ninety eight? Yeah,

that makes sense. I remember going overseas and seeing you guys,
but also seeing a lot of boy bands and singing
boy like singing groups out there. Oh there were five
hundred and I remember like going back and they hadn't
broken the stage yet at all. Like it was, there
was no such thing as the word boy band in
the stage of them, and no one knew what that was.

I mean, the closest thing had been like boys to
men or something, right, I mean that's who we all idolize. Yeah,
like New Kids, The New Kids was I guess the
last official I mean you would call them up because
they you know, saying and dance and they're you know,
white kids without instruments. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's I mean, yeah,
I guess I like singing group better than I like
boy band. Yeah, all, we all do. But we're trying

to take the name back, you know, and it's fun.
And the reason I started this show is I wanted
to bring all these fandoms together and we're definitely uh,
you know, expanding who all can be a part of
the boy band world. And now we're just like, you know,
any dude in a band, you you know, we consider
you and the boy band family. Boys to man. We
have you know, everyone is now just a part of
this family and we're all having a good time. But

I remember, man, I remember like one year, I mean,
we're I think it was a Gray Music could have
been the MTV Music Awards. They all kind of run together,
but and you guys, it was one of the places
where you guys were doing Friday night. Yeah. And I remember,
like my wife and I are just on our feet,
just fucking hands in the air. But I also looked
around and so were everybody else, you know what I mean,
like like there were there were rockers, there were rappers,

you know, like I would look out and see you know,
like fucking Dave Grohl, just like fucking yeah. Like there
was a sense of community there that I thought, it
is great. I remember that was the Billboard Music Awards.
It didn't kill that cutthroat, It didn't feel true. It
was just this moment where you just like you see
all these people from all these different genres, but everybody
was just kind of like in for the moment. Yeah,

it's true. I'm seeing that right now with Taylor Swift.
Uh you know, it's like we're we're at that moment
again where not familiar, well, there's this new artist. She's
up and coming, she's you know, she's a country singer. Us,
she's a promising future, promising. No, But with Taylor, it
just reminded me of those ENCYNCT days where you just

look around and yes, there's a lot of you know,
girls and teenagers and they're having the best time, but
there's all walks of life. There's like these dudes, and
you know, like parents that are just freaking out over
Taylor just as much as their kids just having the
best time. And I'm sure a handful of problematic dudes
as well well, of course, Oh yeah, there are a few.
I was yeah, me, no, Yeah, I was sitting next

to one boyfriend who just was sitting down the entire
time on his phone, but you could literally he could
tell he really wanted to get into it, but was
just yeah, who's trying to land cool? Yeah, you kept looking.
We traded bracelets. Okay, okay, friends, we have friendship bracelets.
Who do you think is doing it right right now?
Who's one of your favorite artists? I mean doing it

right is obviously Taylor Swift. I think, I mean can't
get more right than her right now. There's a new artist.
Her name is just rosy, and she's just really about
to come out. She's a beautiful, beautiful writer. I really
like I'm a big like. I love like Florence in
the Machine and like Nathaniel Weightlift. I love my Morning Jacket. Yeah, Okay,

I guess I guess everybody I like is still over forty. Yeah,
we got our likes, you know. Now, you released the
album Where the Lights Go. Uh, Where the Light Goes,
the first Matchbotch twenty album in over a decade, back
in May. What's it like making music and performing with
the guys twenty years later? I mean, it's been easier.

Like we were. We kind of thought at some point
that we were done making records, Like I was making
solo records, Pop Klesman working solo stuff. Paul has been
doing film scoring and television scoring. Oh yeah, and so
we were all kind of doing these other things when
we kind of thought, well, maybe every few years we'll
get together, we'll tour and maybe put out a song,
and that'll just kind of be what we do. And

then so we're gonna go out in twenty twenty, and
then you know, uh, in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one,
and then I don't remember that year what happened. Ye
twenty twenty two. Everybody was kind of going out, but
I wasn't ready yet. My wife was still not well,
and Pooky, our bass player, was not feeling well. He
had had some immune problems. And so that was the
year that we felt bad because we knew that other

people were out and it was it was kind of
just us. And so that's when we decided, well, let's
just if we're gonna we were gonna work all summer anyway,
so why don't we get together and make a record.
And it just it kind of was born out of that,
but it was super easy, like we didn't really have
a lot of pressure on it. We started off, well,
let's let's just put some songs together. I had took
some songs that I was going to work on, and
I had a solo record kind of all planned out

with Atlantic. It was gonna come out right after the tour,
and so I kind of put a hold on that
and took some of those songs and we all just
kind of started throwing in songs and it turns out
we had a record easy. We just had to make it.
So it was kind of, you know, it was just
a different thing, Like, it wasn't that weird. We're all
gonna you know, move in like a boot camp and
live in a studio for six months and you know,
bleed this record out and you know and hurt for it.

It was kind of like, we're gonna get together every
couple of weeks and you know, sometimes it'll be the
two of us and sometimes the two of us and
sometimes the whole group, and you know, and then we're
gonna do stuff in our own studios at home and
just kind of build it up. And it was like,
oh shit, it's done. Look at that. Yeah, Oh, that's
so nice of your entire discography. I think it might
be three AM because you talked about this earlier. But
what is what are you most proud of writing? Man?

That's a hard mean, that's a hard thing. I think
three Am. I we've a lot of credit too, because
it was the first song that I thought was a
good song that it wasn't just like I wasn't writing
from the outside and I was writing from the inside out. Yeah,
So that's and that was a song that like Paul
heard and that's what made him answer this ad in
the paper to come be our drummer at the time.
That's how okay? So, yeah, how did you? I don't

think I asked how did you all get together? Yeah?
How did you? Yeah? I mean me. You know, Pooky
was in was with us from the very beginning. He
was had just graduated from University of Miami and was
living in Orlando, going to Full Sale in Orlando, Orlando
Full Sale. Yeah, and uh had joined. He knew the
two old guitar players. Paul answered an ad in a

in the in Jam magazine. He really did he know?
Did he have a jam that's gonna be like a
Netflix series of like a period piece of nineteen ninety
five at Jam Magazine, It's like it's like it's like
a rolling stone, only the stakes aren't quite so high. Yeah,

we gotta get that band. We can't do well. Oh
you a funny thing. So Paul, though, answer that ad.
He was our drummer in Maxbox twenty for twelve years,
and then we fired our guitar player, Adam, and then
Paul became our guitar player. Now he's been our guitar
player since like two thousand three or something like that. Yeah, wow,

twenty years now our guitar player instead. Wait, why do'd
y'all have to fire the guitar player? This wasn't working out? Yeah,
I mean we'd go yeah, I mean like we tried everything.
The four of us were just a we were we
were a certain kind of single minded unit, and he
just wasn't sharing any of the kind of stuff that
we were, you know, yeah, yeah, Do you have any
particular like rituals or habits to get into that creative mindset?

I I mean a little weed never hurts. Yeah, that's
a good writing on weed. Yeah, I like it. You know,
it's funny. So I come if I'm doing in my studio,
like I like to clean everything, Like I like everything
to kind of be in a nice orderly place where
before I sit down at the piano and like just
start writing, you know, especially if I'm gonna smuggle a

weed because I'm starting like everything, Like, now, are you
like O. C. D clean or just like I just
need things? It's a little it's a little both. Like
One of the things is that I you know, the
writing for me is more it comes at like really
inconvenient times. You know. It's usually like you lay in

bed and you're about to fall asleep, and this idea
comes in and you know that you know you're not
gonna remember it. Like everybody always says a couple of misnomers, right.
They always say, hey, you're the songs that come quickly,
are there are the best ones? And that's not always true.
Sometimes it takes you forever to find that right chorus
or that right next verse. You know, the lyric and
also the idea that like, if it's good, you're gonna

remember it. Like that's you got to record everything. And
it's because a lot of times, like you sit down
and you write down an idea, like a lyric idea,
but then you forget the melody that came with it,
and then it's useless without that. So like sure we
all have just voice note after voice note after voice
note after voice note of like me is sane? I

mean lance pretty much every night. Lance, Like we'll wake
up in the middle of sleeping and it's pull out
because I say the same thing, this is such a
great idea, I'm definitely gonna remember tomorrow. I don't need
to go write it my notes never but I'm like, nope,
I will never remember this, so I will like wake
up put it in my notes Chburg, where like you
lay in bed and you're just so tired that you
try and convince yourself it's not that good of an idea.

Yeah I have. I'm like, you know what, it's good,
but like, am I really gonna do something with this?
So I really need to remember this the next day.
The next day, I kind of a really good idea,
but I can't remember it the next big I've had
times where like I'm not like especially like if I
have a couple of, you know, glasses of wine, and
then I go to bed and I jump up really

quick and I get on the voice note and I
kind of forget my surroundings and I'm like, that's just
wakes up, like the house is on fire. That is great.
Since you're such a great writer, would you ever attempt
to write a musical? Yeah, it's funny. I've been talking
about that. So there's there's two things right now. There's

a producer what the guy who directed Jersey Boys actually
and I'm so the guy who wrote Jersey Boys is
writing the book for I guess it kind of it's
a it's a jukebox musical of mine and matchbox songs. Okay, nice,
but it takes place and like it's a play within
a play, and it's kind of like this done like
a like a Greek chorus kind of it's you know,

it's it's pretty. I love that because your songs are
I mean, you're a storyteller. You do remind me and
you can tell you grow up with country music because
you know country just it's a story, right, and with
all your songs, like you just you really just lay
out this beautiful, like visual story that you can just see.
So I could definitely see your music being turned into
a jukebox musical. Yeah, thanks, man. I mean, you know,

there's a there's a there's a line and push it's
it's it's in the second verse, like it says a
like don't just stand there say nice things to me.
That's a very country kind of a line. Yeah, totally.
I mean, like because you can't forget another way to
say it, so you just kind of say it. Yeah,
that's the best way to do it, you know, especially
if you use a lot of if you use a
lot of colorful language, you know, and a lot of

metaphors and a lot of and then all of a
sudden you throw in just very plain spoken something, it
really hits a lot harder. I think that's a country
one O one. I love it. Give us a froust
to tip on what advice you would give to aspiring
musicians today and this crazy music landscape. I mean, I
think again, my understanding of the business world is probably

not the best one to take it from. I think
anybody over fifty is not necessarily because because I have
great advice on how things used to be and how
things used to work. But I would say that I
still believe that no matter what you're doing, no matter
how you're coming at it, the content you know, matters.
And I think you know, if you're coming in and
you're you need to have a good song. Like my

son's band is really really good. They're a better band
than I was at that age. But I you know,
I always tell them you just need that one song.
And the funny thing is if you have the one song,
these other songs retroactively will do better because they're followed
by that one good song. You know, Like these songs
right now, you don't have to change anything about them,
and they might not be hits, but if you have

this one hit, they might become hits because all of
a sudden they'll be looked at different. They'll just shine
a different light on them or something. I'm not sure
how you look at it, but people find the song
the song. The song is always is always key in
music anyway. And then you have that dreaded sophomore album
like up, yeah, who everybody wrong? Just take your take

your album you're working on right now, throw it out,
write another one. There you go, and uh, I always say,
you know, for new artists, don't worry about trying to
win over the world. Just try to win over your
fan base, like create that little fan base and it
will grow. If you're authentic, they will find you. They
will find you. Can you guys? Imagine like when you're

starting out and you're doing well already, right, but then
you look over and you see like, you know, fucking
Nickelback or something, and you're like, you know, I want
a little bit of that too, And then all of
a sudden you're like, you're not Nickelback, but you're not
in sync, and then like what are you? You know,
because you're trying really hard to like chase after markets
as opposed to like do what you do really really well.

And bring that initiate a group of people and then
foster a relationship and love with them and it'll grow
out from that. Nickelback, Oh my gosh, that was another
Orlando band. Well, I oh, I knew Chad lived in Orlando.
It's Canadian, right, I don't know, but I know they
lived in Orlando. I don't know why. But why do
you think they got so much shit for a while there,

Like because they were like one of Like it's the
joke about Nickelback. I was glad when they did because
people left us alone, Like Matchbox was Nickelback before Nickelback,
and so soon it says they come out, I'm like, yeah,
fuck those guys. So you started this, Yeah, I mean
I think you know as well as anybody man, Like,

there's a certain level of success that once you achieve it,
you were you're such an easy target. Yeah of course,
you know. Yeah, it's as much as you're loved, you're
gonna be as hated as equally. Well, yeah, territory it's
easy for people to punch up. Yeah, you gotta of course. Yeah.
So they see that and it's like they figured, like
there's no real harm to anybody there exactly with your

son's bands. The lucky right is your son's been How
much influence did you have on this band? Like how
much are you helping him? Is this something that you
loved for him to get into or were you kind
of like, oh, I kind of hope you don't go
into music and be a front man. You know. I
believe him enough to pay for Berkeley, for him to
get to Berkeley. In his four years, he just he

did all the right things with it. He practiced all
the time. He became such a phenomenal guitar player. He
started to really become a gearhead, like he just you know,
like he would go like to, you know, get a
ticket to John Marrin. John would go meet him at
the gate and bring him back, and he was just
like peek out over John's rig, you know, just pedal.
What is this fright? You know? Yeah? And so I'm

really really proud of the work that he puts into it,
and he and he works really really hard still. And
so when he came out and he moved out to
LA with his band, I think probably the worst parental advice,
but the best advice to a young artist was I
told him not to have a backup plan, you know.
I was like, if this is what you're doing, go

a thousand percent and get yourself a waiter, gig, get
something you know it's gonna pay your bills, and then
spend the rest of the time putting everything into the
into the band. And it's going to take a minute,
you know, for that to pay off, but it'll be
it'll be worth it because I figure the worst case
scenario is that I'll have him on my couch for
a little while when he's thirty. Yeah, you probably wouldn't

mind that. Listen. Yeah, I'll love our kids when they're
thirty to come. All right, let's get us some fan
questions here. Well E four nine eight already asked would
you ever do a duet of Push with Ryan Cosling?
And yes, Ryan, give us a call. I'm sure he's
listening right now. All right, how does it feel to
have your son following your footsteps? That's from Mary Beth.
I'm gonna be kind of touched on that, but yeah,

I mean, so you know, another fun fact about my son.
I have a private gig coming up in a couple
but then I have a few more coming up, and
then I'm going to start on the new solo stuff,
you know after Matchbox Kids back from Australia. When we
do that, my son is actually going to be the
guitar player in my solo band, that's all. And talking
about great experience, you know, because season he's he opened up.

We just did the Hollywood Bowl and he his band
opened up for us when we did the Hot That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah,
our at player just got tired of being on the
road and so I called him up and asked him
if he wants to take over. So he's gonna he's
gonna move into that spot. So I mean, how proud
of a dad were you to see your son opening
up with the Hollywood Bowl? Yeah, yeah, it was amazing

feat yeah anyone by the way, So in thirty years,
that was our That was the last box to check off, right,
Like we had done everything from the Wheel Turn to
to a Troubadours, the Staples Center, the Forum, you know,
the Greek back when they had Universal amphitheater, like we
played all the good stuff. We've never done Hollywood Bowl.
Technically he played it before I did. Yeah, he did,

he did. He did that is again like you we
played every venue, but that uh, and I go to
the shows there all the time, and I'm like, God,
this would be so nice. It's a magical venue. Man,
I can't believe it. It It took us that long, but
there is It's something that was very beautiful and special
about being there. Yeah. We saw Dolly Parton there a

couple of years ago, just and Reba McIntyre. We just
saw Janet Jackson. I mean just there's some real and
it's great and because you have to change your show
a little bit there because the stage is smaller and
you can't bring in your full set, so you know,
you have to put on your own a different show
at the Bowl that the that white band show creates
its own atmosphere, you know, it becomes the light show

is the actual you know, and the fireworks that you
can put in there. Janet had some crazy fireworks. I've
never seen anything like that. That was like, Jesus, what's
Kim up to? Says? Whose idea was it? To put
a camel and the real world music video? Originally it
was an armadillo. Huh. But you can't an armadillo can't

make it through the gutters on a bowling alley. Okay,
I I yeah, I mean, that is why we needed
one of the other. Why. I don't know. Man, it's
turtles all the way down. I don't know if it take.
I love it exactly. Well, Rob, it was so great

to talk to you and really dive into your life.
You're You've had such a phenomenal career, and I feel
like this next chapter is even gonna be bigger, and
I'm excited to see what is great for you solo
with Mashbox twenty. I can. I'm so happy that your
son is about to like start taking off. I mean,

your your life is good. Oh. By the way, I
want to ask, how did you meet your wife? She?
Uh came to see a show in Montreal at a
time where I was more famous than she thought that
I was, but less famous than I thought that I
was love and to her like friend had drug her

to a show. She didn't really know anything about me,
and I got her number and then went to Europe
and just talked to her every night on the phone
and then just fell in love with her and got
we got married. We got engaged on our first date. Well,
I told her on our first date we were gonna
get that I was gonna marry and then like a
month later we got engaged, and then a year after

that we got married and then that was five years ago. Wow,
as a good love story. Before we let you go?
What can we are? Do? You do you have time
to watch TV? At all? It's all I do? Okay,
is there anything that we need to be? Like? You know? Yeah?
What are you watching? That? What reality shows? We are? You?
Are you guys? Have you guys caught it with the Bear? No? No,

but everybody talks about that show. Yeah, we need to
catch up. Yeah, man, are watching Miracle Workers that Daniel
Radcliffe show that it's a different season, It's like a
different point in history every season. Yeah, I heard, I've
heard of that, but now I haven't seen that one
yet either. The great great Yeah, wow, you're giving us

some good recommendations because I feel like we watched every
single show and I've not seen any of the shows
you mentioned. Yeah, so this is good some of the best.
I'm somewhere. I have like a sticky that I just
send to my friends of like this is you know
on HBO, and like it goes all the way back
to like fucking breaking bad you like if you you know,
because I'm like, my mom just watched Breaking Bad for
the first time. Yeah, it was a good one. He's

still haven't seen the full Yeah, I'm seen it. This
is how bad. I never watched it when you were
watched it, and then I decided I watched it when
you were watching an episode one day and it was
the finale. You watched the finale first. It's the only
episode I've seen was the finale. And I'm like, oh man,
the Downton Abbey rabbit Hole. Oh yeah, oh, yes, so good.
I was a movie theater with my wife right when

that last movie that came out, and I was like
the whole time, I'm like, you know, I'm gonna go,
but I could watch this at home. It's fucking down.
I didn't need to see any theater. Yea. And an
hour later, I'm sitting in a theater like, who's just
so I mean, that's it was so good, It's so great.
One of our good friends, uh is the Irish guy
on the show, the one that was the ballet that

married one of the whatever, our friend, Alan Leitch. He
plays the Branson. Yes, yes, uh yeah, he's he's great.
He's just lives down the street and there they have
kids kind of like the same age as are, so
we had a little play group and stuff and Rob,
it was so great to see my man. I hope

you have an incredible day when you're back in LA
I definitely want to come see you guys. Do you'll
have any plans on touring California right now? We so
we just got off the road. It was like fifty
four days. It's like the longest done. And so we're
we're barring a couple you know, corporate and other you know,
kind of like charity gigs. We're doing Australia in February

and we'll be there for like a month, and then
after that I'm kind of like right back into solo world.
So I'll reach out to you when I get back
out there on Solo World. I love that loved and
we're we're looking forward to the solo album for sure.
So uh yeah, we're we're waiting. We're waiting. The world
is waiting. Rob. All right, man, Well you have a
great day, all right, yeah exactly? All right, all right,

we'll see you later and we'll catch up with you
next time. Just good to see you, all right, you two. Man?

What I horrible should nasty guy, worst interview. God, what
a legend, I mean a legend, what a great I
was gonna say it again. So that's a nice I mean,
you know, I wouldn't say we're friends, but we definitely
been around each other a lout. No, I just loved
his vibe, always cool, and the whole band, the whole

band now and he's never looked better. I was gonna say,
it's about to say that, what the hell he he
looks good. He has not aged a day. Oh, I
feel like he's gotten hotter. He's definitely good looking boy.
Yeah uh yeah, like something like something's in the because yeah,
well for some people, yeah, some people got like the

well water or not your cheese comes out of yeah, exactly.
But the lovely guy, you know, and the whole band
is who was the match Marks twenty member that we
would always go over to uh uh Leah Black's house.
That's who knows, Brian maybe, oh you're right, which one

but one of them? I remember, that's that's who taught
me how to meditate for the first time. Remember, I
was like, I just can't meditate. I'm my brain just
and it's like, no, I'm the same way. And the
way you do it is you go back to the
same place in your head, and it's like people like us,
it was like a major add Yes, you go back
to the same same place. Did you build one little
thing in this little world every single time and you

just slowly build it, and then you know, over time
this world gets bigger and bigger, but you just focus
on this one little you know, and mine is an
ice world. I guess it's all when I when one
of my times in therapy, I did the same thing.
But it's like, imagine like your ideal like out forest
park that it's just your own and you go in

and all you do is keep looking around the park
and notice something different and build a beautiful like here's
gonna be a waterfall, There's gonna be a flower. I
have lots of igloos in my town, like a lot,
but they're like great igloos. And I have lots of
animals that don't really they're not supposed to live in
the Arctic areas. Wow. But it's a complicated brain of yours.
It is. It's very zutopia. But let's say it's like

your farm Bill game, Hey day game, but in your
head y'all. Hey, days so fun. We can't go down
this rabbit, We can't. I'm gonna end it right here,
all right. That is all the show we have for you.
Thank you so much for listening. Everyone, have a great
day because it is a great day to have a
great day. Be good to each other. I don't drink
and drive, take care of oh those little animals, and

remember saysted Hey, thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram
at Frosted Tips with Lance and Michael Urson Art and
at Lance Bass for all your pop culture needs, and
make sure to write us a review and leave us
five stars six if you can see you next time.
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