March 6, 2025 • 41 mins
What would you do if you weren’t afraid? Bianca Guimaraes answers that question with stories from Mischief’s groundbreaking campaigns, while Shelly Lazarus reflects on lessons from David Ogilvy that continue to inspire today’s advertising leaders.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, Welcome to Season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future. I'm your
host Tim Natividad.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I'm your host Christina Pile.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And with that, let's meet the legends. Welcome, Welcome back
to Future Legends of Advertising Today, I am thrilled to
introduce Bianca Guimerez, an Emmy winning executive creative director and
(00:51):
founding partner at Mischief. Bianca's career is marked by bold,
culture shifting campaigns including Thinks, Menstruation, and the impactful anti
bullying campaign The Epidemic with Monica Lewinsky. She made headlines
when she left her secure role at BBDO to co
launch a new agency, of Course, in the midst of
a global pandemic. Her work has not only earned her
(01:14):
an Emmy and over one hundred international awards, but also
recognition as one of ad Ages forty under forty as
well as Business Insiders thirty under thirty. Multiple times Beyonca's
mission is clear to inspire young women to see themselves
in advertising and push the boundaries of what creative leadership
looks like. Beyonca, thanks for joining us. Seems like you're
(01:37):
I know that background well, seems like you're deep in
a phone booth somewhere in corporate America.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I am in midtown. Very very special, Yes, artists for
this talk, very relevant.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Joining us now is Shelley Lazarus, a true icon in
the industry and Chairman Emerita of Ogilvy. Shelley's career spans
over four decades, nearly all of them at Ogilvy, where
she began her journey during the era when the legendary
David Ogilvie himself walked the halls. Named worldwide CEO in
(02:12):
nineteen ninety six and Chairman in nineteen ninety seven, Shelley
led Ogilvy with an unweavering focus on building powerful, enduring
brands for global giants, giants like IBM, Coca Cola, and Unilever.
Her legacy is built on passionate leadership and a commitment
to excellence, making her a guiding light for generations of
(02:35):
advertising professionals. You know, this is a pretty impressive class
that we have this year, and just thinking through this episode,
there are really only few people who have the background
and track record as Shelley, and so as we look
at how we want to spend our conversation today, I
kind of thought maybe a really interesting place to start,
Shelley might just be if you could walk us back
(02:57):
to maybe the early days of your time, even entering
at Maxwell House, and what was like just coming into
the industry as one of the fewer female voices in
a fairly male dominated industry, and how they catapulted or
influenced your vision for your career. Obviously, Bianca today represents
not just women in leadership, but also having come from
(03:19):
the bipop community as well, which we'll talk through in
detail as well.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Well. Thank you Tim. It's I always like sort of
starting with my story because it was everything was an accident.
I'm looking forward to hearing whether Bianca had a similar
sort of start. But I really had no idea what
I wanted to do, but I needed to make money
(03:46):
because I was in love and my boyfriend fiance was
in medical school and I was setting out in nineteen
sixty eight, and there are many people who remember this,
but if you were a woman in nineteen sixty eight
and you wanted to work in the commercial world, you
had to type pretty much, and so I really didn't
(04:10):
want to do that. Somebody said to me, I think
if you had an MBA, they couldn't make you type.
It was a hypothetical, It was not a sure thing.
But anyway, I didn't know what that was. But I
went and I found out, and I found out that Columbia,
where my now husband was going to medical school, they
had a business school and they gave MBAs. So I
(04:34):
went and got an MBA, again, not having any idea
what I wanted to do. I was one of four
women in a class of three hundred. I mean you
just sort of the visual of it for women and
two hundred and ninety six men and so. But the
great thing that happened is that I sort of fell
in love with marketing and advertising. I didn't know it
(04:55):
was a thing until I got to business school, and
I didn't find a lot of what I was studying
that interesting, but I love marketing. I just thought it
was fascinating, and so that's that's sort of how I
set out. There were agencies and companies that wouldn't hire
(05:16):
women MBAs. I mean, they were nice about it. They
always had some reason, like you know, the the carrying case,
the sample case when you go out on sales training
was so heavy that a woman, you know, wouldn't be
able to handle it, because that was part of the training.
Or one of my other favorites was we have so
(05:38):
few spots, so we couldn't waste one on a woman.
Some very prestigious company at representative actually said that to me,
And so, you know, I just kind of the thing
that's amazing when I look back in retrospect was that
I didn't sort of stand up and walk out in
a huff. I didn't find it Outgus, I said, it
(06:01):
was just more kind of the way it was. So
I did get a job as a client. I worked
at Claral on all kinds of hair things.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I was very happy there. I found it really interesting.
And then I got a call from Ogilvie one day
saying they were looking for somebody to work on a
Unilever account. They needed someone who knew something about hair.
So because I had been at Clarle, I was a
good candidate. I never expected to go to Ogilvie. I
mean it was quite happy at Clarle, but I had
(06:33):
been an intern at General Foods in the Maxwell House division,
and Ogilvy was the agency for the I did it
for the summer, and so I thought, well, I'm not
going to go there, but I'd love to go back
and see some of my old friends. And so I went,
I interviewed, I got seduced, and I went there thinking, Okay,
well I'll do two years in an agency. I did
(06:55):
two years at a client, although two years at an agency,
and they'll figure it all up. And so I went
to Ogilvy and I never left. I mean, that's that's
the whole story. It was sort of I fell in
almost accidentally, and and then I never left. But but
your you know, your question, Tim is a fascinating one
(07:16):
because because it looked completely different. I mean I was
very often the only woman in the room. And in
those days, almost everything we were selling was to women.
It was consumer package goods. I mean, those were the
big advertisers. So it was detergent and margarine and shampoo
and coffee and and all that stuff, and and so
(07:40):
beyond I'm thinking that there was actually there was one
female creative director one in the entire agency. Uh she
got more of the really really girly girl uh products Revacorda.
She was great, but it was just a completely differ
for an environment. And you know, there would be moments
(08:04):
where I'd be speaking on the part of all the
women in the world, because all these men would be
having conversations about how women felt about things, how women
would see things, you know what, where women were in
their lives, and at some point someone would turn to
me and go, well, Shelley, what do women think? And
(08:25):
I was speaking on behalf of all the women in
the world for years in the advertising industry. So anyway,
you know, fast forward to today. It's just I had
a wonderful run. It was great, and with time, more
and more women came in. And the thing that is
so wonderful I think about the time we're living in now,
(08:46):
is we had trouble sort of finding women who could
be creative leaders. And I was always asked about that
because there were a lot of women in management, you know,
with time and there weren't that many women creative leaders.
There were women who were in creative roles, but not
necessarily the leaders. And so Bianca when you know, when
(09:07):
I see your list of accomplishments and what you've done
and that you're an agency founder, it just it just
warms my heart that now we have incredible women leaders
who are leading the industry, and you know, you look
everywhere at Ogilvy. Now are our worldwide creative head. Liz Tailor.
(09:28):
I mean, she's fantastic, but she's the first woman who
we've ever had was who was the creative lead. So
I'm thinking we're living in a new, better time.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Her story is fantastic, and yeah, I love Liz. This
is Yeah, it's really really inspiring. And I have so
many other questions, but Tim, I'll let you continue for now,
for now beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
You know, if we kind of fast forward to today
where something like Mischief is live and real and growing
and there's a ton of success around it as well,
I have to imagine the Shelley from Maxwellhouse could only
dream of something like Mischief living today and breathing today.
And so maybe, Bianka, if you could just share with
us the mission behind Mischief. I know it's a relatively
(10:16):
new organization, although we're seeing a ton of momentum in general,
perhaps now would be a great time to kind of
just share with the rest of the audience what mischief
is all about.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Yeah, well, Shelly, thanks for paving the way.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I know you were there like in the trenches, but yeah,
I'll tell you a little bit about mischief. So we're
basically found on this notion of it's like this question
of what would you do if you weren't afraid? And
it is really kind of like coming from this perspective
that all these people from like big agents has kind
of came together and realized that a lot of the
(10:49):
times were whenever we face any sort of like you know,
if it's a creative presentation, or if it's a business decision,
if it's like a hiring moment, like whatever it is,
we're always kind of like coming from a place of fear,
and we're always kind of like thinking.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
The you know, how do we You know, you're playing
you're playing not.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
To lose versus to win, and you start making the
wrong decisions in our opinion when you're playing that way.
So it's really about kind of like, you know, what
would you do if you're not afraid? Like what ideas
would you present your client, what person would you hire,
what business would you say no to what you know,
So like coming from that perspective, we kind of founded
(11:29):
this agency that believes in, you know, in taking, in creating,
making a stir, and you cannot make a stir if
you're afraid. So it kind of like all comes together.
So that's the kind of like in like a quick answer,
what we are about.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And beyond, I have to imagine. I don't know what
it was like for either of the two of you.
I can't say. Through elementary school and middle school, I
said to myself one day, I think I think I'll
get into advertising. That's that's where it's at. What kind
of drove a lot of your early interest in advertising,
both for you, Shelley and Bianca.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I think for me it was a little similar to
Shelley's story in the sense.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
That it was I I.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Found advertising through the things that I did not like,
like so like it was almost like what was left
as like some options of things I could do based
on the things that I knew.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
I didn't want to do.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But I didn't know much about advertising, and I thought
it sounded fun, and I knew I didn't want to
be a doctor or like a lawyer or I know,
like I kind of like went through all these things
and I was like, okay, no, no, no, no, what's left?
It was like you know at the time, and I'm
from Brazil and there was kind of like radio n
TV was like when options seen him. I was an option,
(12:46):
fashion was an option, and advertising was an option. Of
the things that were left that I kind of like
felt like, oh, maybe one of those things. But it
was really not until I started it that I really fell.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
In love with it.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And I was like, how lucky am I that I
ended up here? And I really loved this and like
I still can't explain, but it was really something that
I ran into and I was like, I really liked
this thing, and with time I got to understand what
it was really about.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Well, I think one of the reasons that I sort
of liked it as much as I did when I
was first exposed is that I majored in psychology in
college and so this was kind of my goodness. Never
thought about it. If you changed the stimulus, you could
get a different response, and so it was just sort
of that constant game of what could we do to
(13:41):
the stimulus and you And then I discovered that you
could play the game with these remarkable people. I mean,
I didn't know people in advertising until I actually, you know,
went to Ogiley. But you had all these writers and
artists and uh you know, musicians and who were now
just focusing their talents on you know, on advertising, on
(14:06):
something quite specific, and so, you know, it never felt
like work to me. It just was. It was so
fun to You're solving this, you know, kind of knotty problem,
but you're solving it with a bunch of really talented
people who are a little nad, a little crazy, but
(14:27):
fearless in a way I mean, And so you know,
you just sort of look forward to coming to the
office every day, you know, I thought, and my god,
and then you get paid on top of everything for
spending your day in such a fun way.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And Shelly, I've heard you talk about that in various
interviews you've conducted. Were a lot of career success, at
least as the way you've described it just kind of
comes down to the love of the game, right, and
then on top of it, you say, hey, I happen
to get paid for this, or maybe in Beyonca's case,
she can say I happened to you know, while doing
the nine to five get nominated for several Emmys, and
(15:06):
so biancle, what was that story about? So it sounds
like through your work and through your you know, obviously
the impact on upward social mobility for certain underrepresented identities
is a big part of the mission and what drives
both of you to show up at the office. But
then of course some of the i'll call it perks
of the job come along. Could you just what was
(15:28):
that story and how did what was the moment when
you first realized, wow, I am together with my team
nominated for not just one, but several Emmys.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because I didn't realize the power of
advertising into what was already doing it. And that's when
I said, like, I was so lucky that I look
and I was like, I'm so happy I landed here,
and like I didn't see the impact that it could
happen people's lives.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I didn't really know how it worked.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But anyway, in my second I moved to New York
fifteen years ago, and you know, my second job was
at BBDO and I remember my first brief at by
Video was a brief for Autism Speaks, and it was
you know, we had that kind of I've always been
equally like Shelley is saying, excited about our jobs, and
I don't really see it as a job, and like
(16:15):
the whole the fact that we get paid for this
and it's so fun. I'm like, I feel like the
best profession in the world. So, you know, I was
super excited hire like you know, New Higher Energy, and
I went all out with my partner at that brief,
and then we did a good job at the brief,
like the you know, we ended up being able to
sell like a few different campaigns to that client and.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Produce work right away.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
And the work was seen internally, I think in the
agency as like a case of success, and people were like,
you know, people liked it. So once you kind of
like are on people's radar, and like if people start
kind of like knows you in the department, it's like
really you someone kind of asks you to put you
on a brief. So like another brief or like another
nonprofit came in and they were like, well, Bianca did
(17:01):
a good job on that, why don't we put Bianca
on this? And then you and then I worked on
another thing and that was like I think, like a
climate change thing. And then the climate change thing was
interesting and it came out well too, and then it
was like, well, now we have Monica Lewinsky and Sandy
Hook Promise like in the building and they like want
to do like these campaigns. And at the time, specifically
for Sandy Hook, which was one of the Emmys, we
(17:23):
you know, there was a guy Peter Sente running the
brand and they had like you know done, I think
like they were working for maybe a year or so
together and Peter then invited me, is like, hey, I
need a creative partner to run the business with me.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Do you want to do it? And I'm like, sure,
that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And so that's when we kind of like did for
the next four years or so campaigns year after a
year for them. And so it's it was this process
of once you kind of like once people know you,
and for some reason the nonprofit thing became something that's
kind of like Bianca, you know, like Bianca has done that,
and I very you know, it feels like to me
(18:01):
kind of like makes my karma a little more leveled
when I'm kind of like selling chocolate to people, and
at the same time, if I can do something good
for the world, it just kind of like it feels
so rewarding, and I was happy to really be embracing
that and and I think you know that happens too
with product briefs as well. But I embraced the thing
(18:22):
and like you know, with causes, it almost felt like
that was my life and like I needed to solve
that problem for the world, especially with Sandy hook promise.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Like after I had kids, I was like, this is
I can't, like we need to figure this out.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So it was just like I think, you know, this
combination of being really passionate about it but also wanting
to create change and seeing like how powerful advertising is
to be able to do that. And yeah, and I
did a few of those along with some other kind
of like you know, non non nonprofit stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And that's where the awards come in.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I guess they're kind of like a you know, the
it's like the outcome when you do a good job.
But it was never really kind of like the first
main goal, even though it's nice to do it and
I won't lie that it feels it feels great to
celebrate in that to be the outcome.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Was there a ceremony? Did you go to a thing
with a black tie and go up on a stage, and.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
All my my coworkers did go to like the one
time we were a couple of times we were nominated.
I had just had a kid, which is funny, like
when I had a baby, my my my first next
after I had my first son, the next year and
a half was one of my most productive years at
the office And it was when I launched like a
lot of those those pieces of work, and I didn't
(19:43):
go I had the baby, but we did zooms with like,
you know, the team and to like celebrate. It was
also like pandemic was kind of like it was all
this kind of combination of things. But I they had
a great time, and I was jealous. So maybe you
need to like try to try to do it again.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Well that's great, and Bianca, So I'll give you just
a sort of a preview of you know, a later
chapter in your life. Turns out that all these causes
they need what we know how to do, and so
you can sort of take your whole lifetime of experience
in you know, communicating and persuading people and then just
decide where you want to focus your time and attention.
(20:23):
You know, what causes, what issues and your dance card
fills up very quickly. But it's very satisfying to be
able to take what you know how to do as
your profession and your career and then make a difference
with things that you really care about.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Very true, Shelly, was that how you were just kind
of dialing back the clock a little bit. You are
actually an inductee of AAF's Hall of Fame. I believe
that was in twenty thirteen, and so just thinking through,
you know, there's been some time since you received that.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
A war with the rest of your class.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
How have you seen, you know, over these last ten
plus years, have you seen the industry change and transform?
And where have you seen the advertising fulfill some of
the ambition and promise that even back in twenty thirteen
you thought was maybe only just a dream.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Well, you know, the thing is that what hasn't changed
is the power of a big idea. I mean, so
everyone's everything's changed, and people got everything's changed, the world's
not the same. Well, the one thing that hasn't changed
is the power of a big idea. And I would
argue that as the media has gotten more fragmented and
(21:39):
the number of places that you can meet people has
grown exponentially, it's increasingly important that you have a big idea,
something that kind of pulls all the things together. And
so I think the possibilities, the opportunities for how you
(21:59):
can deliver your message to someone, you know, it's just
extraordinary now. It boggles them on. I always say, you know,
if you can think it, you can do it now.
And so that the most creative part of presentations now
is what you know we used to call the media
part is okay, so we have this idea, how are
(22:21):
we going to deliver it to the audiences that we
want to reach? So, you know, I think that part
is extraordinary. I'll do a commercial now for a review
I have. I think separating out media and creative all
those years ago was a mistake. I actually think it
should come back together because when we used to sit
(22:41):
together and dream together, and the ideas that went back
and forth between what the idea was and where you
could put it led to extraordinary results. I mean, you know,
it's just uh. I always say. My best example was
(23:02):
we had when we introduced e commerce for IBM. The
idea that the creative people had was, you know, how
do you make sure everybody knows what this is in
the space of four days. Well, the answer was eight
straight pages in the Wall Street Journal, the ft the
German newspaper. They forget the name now. And if you
(23:25):
said to a media person, how would you think about
a media plan, There's no way in hell that they
would do eight consecutive pages in you know, in one publication.
But as we talked together, it became so obvious, it
became such a big idea. It made each side, you know,
each group's idea bigger. And so I'm hoping I'm thinking
(23:48):
that media and creative get back together again in some way,
at least that they think together. And I think it
would be good for TikTok tim I actually do you know,
just to have the idea come out of hole.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Well, it's interesting, you know the the obviously people come
to TikTok as a reach driver and you know, media
media pipes basically turns out. I'll say two things. One,
I don't think you've really lived a day in your
life as a parent until you've done a TikTok dance
with your child. But having said that, okay, there there
(24:23):
you go, there you go, I will say, you know,
making my own tiktoks is I'll put it like this,
It's easier to sell TikTok as an ad platform, at
least for me personally, than it is actually make a TikTok.
And turns out brands have the same challenge when it
comes to building creative fit for for TikTok as well.
And so you know, at least through the lens of TikTok,
we have kind of seen this blend of where creative
(24:46):
plays a role much much earlier upstream and the stages
prior to you know, the media planning stages, and we're
starting to see that play out as well. Although I
have to imagine Bianca, you know, just as a creative,
you know, born and bred creative, your elf. I'm sure
you've also seen parts of Shelley's vision here on the
role that media and creative can play together for joint success.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I could not agree more.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
In Brazil, media and the end, you know, the agency
is still a thing, and it's like when people are
asking about the biggest difference between like you know, how
the agencies work here and there, and I'm like, media,
can we bring it back? So we're working on it
at Mischief, But I agree it's like things work better
when you're more integrated, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And how much of your time at bbdo you know,
we should spend some time talking about that, Bianca, how
did that influence your vision for Mischief? And maybe we
can talk about this in two parts, right when you
think about what strong creative looks like, how much of
that just came from the grounding and the foundation set
at BBDO And then number two, of course, I think
(25:50):
if you look at the rest of the folks who
are in the Hall of Achievement or perhaps in the
Hall of Fame, invariably at some point along their path,
you know, they say, you know what, this is great,
I'm going to try something out on my own. And
I think that's a pretty big bet. Now, I bet
that you chose to make with intense hunger and vision
(26:12):
and testament to the success that Mischief has today. But
you know, always easy to say that now with look
looking through the rear view window, that's probably not how
you felt in twenty twenty and missed a pandemic. So
if you could also let's just maybe talk about what
that leap of faith was like for you at that
moment in time.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, you know, I was at Bibo for six years
and on the pandemic the you know, I by the way,
I used to work with Kevin Morroy, who was my
partner now also one of the partners at Mischief, and
we used to work together at Babydo and with at Bibdeo.
I think we've learned a lot from the leadership there, right,
like Greg Huhn, who was like the chief creative officer
there at the time. Then there was David Loubars, and
(26:52):
you know, I think part of like the you know,
six years that we were there, it shaped us as
creatives to think in a similar way or kind of too.
I do things that were similar to like Greg and
you know, the leadership there in the sense of like
there was always a lot of I think Greg was
very always very strategic and he there's there was always
like a lot of a lot of time given to
(27:16):
that part of the process, which I think made us
kind of the creatives that really value that and were
very ground like, you know, made us very much more
grounded into like strategy and thinking bigger about it. And
I think that's a little bit of like what we
think is our secret sauce and Mischief, which is not
really a secret. And I think a lot of people
(27:37):
talk about the importance of strategy, but I think that
growing up under that and learning how to think that
way and kind of like having similar sensibilities ended ended
up making us great partners to start something together when
you're talking about, you know, having the same similar vision
and sensibilities. And so when Greg got lego at bivideo
(27:59):
because it was the pandemic make and that whole thing
where everybody was a little bit like shocked that it
was happening. He is very good at his job, and
you know, we usually say that like the only kind
of like guarantee you have nowadays, Like when you know,
in a world where Greg Hunt gets let go, it's
like being good at your job because you can land
on your feet really well.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
And that's what you know too.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Not even two months later, we you know, we taught
he reached out and it was kind of like, Hey,
I'm going to start an agency.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
Do you and Kevin want to do this?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
And we were like, that's the you know, to me,
when you're talking about doing this thing where you stop
and you're like, I'm going to do my own thing.
I don't know if I would have like stopped and
done my own thing, if it was kind of like
me on my own as like my kind of like
idea that I always thought advertising feels such a tough
business in the sense that like you build so much
(28:50):
and then you lose a client and you like everything,
like it just always felt so fragile that I was like,
I want to get to like, you know, to the
top somewhere that's already established, and I want to be
part of our leadership of something big. But like I
in my head, it was kind of like I don't
know if the idea of starting something would have kind
of come for me. But when you know, someone like
Greg said hey, do you guys want to do this?
(29:13):
We were like yes, and it felt like the worst
that can happen is the agency is not going to
work out and we're going to learn a lot, and
we're going to do something more entrepreneurial, something very different
than what we're doing here. And it was it was
that that was kind of like it we you know,
was the starting the stars aligne where also like we
had our president was at the time was kind of
(29:36):
like also available. And I won't tell too much backstory
because it would be too long. We winded, But it
was like the sort of combination of a few people
at the same time that had similar vision, and that's
kind of how the whole thing started. Yeah, I think
that's kind of the beginning story of it, or how
I got into it.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
So Biaco, was it really scary at the start?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The scary part was more like I knew I think
between me, Greg and Kevin, which were the people that
we knew because carry or president, like we didn't know
her before, and then our head of production and our
cso we kind of like met them as like almost
like free lancers for a project here and there, and
then we started like we're like, oh this they are
great and then kind of like they were incorporated as
(30:20):
kind of like mischief heads.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
But I think at the beginning we knew.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The scary part was that, like I knew, meet Kevin
and Greg warn't like business people per se, and we
warn't the people that were going to be like, oh,
let me kind of like bring my rolodex and start
like you know, hitting up some clients and going out
for lunches and trying to like see if they want
to do stuff with us, and we're like, who is
going to be that person and like, and I think
that's also where kind of like two of our co
(30:45):
founders also Dave and Surge, come in and that's kind
of the story where Greg found you know, also people
that were going to do the business part of things,
and it was kind of like, you guys are creatives.
You can do your vision and you can kind of
like build the agency around that and we'll take care
of the business. But still the part about getting clients,
I think in the US because they've insurged, we're also
(31:08):
you know, from Canada. It was the part where it
us have least like you know, me and Kevin a
little more like how is it going to be yere?
We're going to have like stuff to work on where
we can find clients, And from the very beginning we
had clients kind of like I think part of it
was because it was like a big story, right like
Greg had been let go. It's kind of like this
(31:30):
comeback type story, but also a network of people that
loved and had worked with him before at Bibdeo for
so long that now was like, oh, I want that brain,
you know, for not a price of like holding company
right at that moment, So it's kind of like, way
I get access to these people for you know, not
(31:50):
you know, at the time, it's kind of like a
small agent, so we're not like, you know, charging the
same as you would somewhere else. So it's like, oh,
I get this team for sure, let's try. And we
were so busy from the very beginning. I think for
the first year and a half, we're kind of like
we didn't have to do one reach out to any clients.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
We didn't have like, you.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Know, our new business person now, we didn't have a
CIMO all the time, like and all the macteer was
kind of like he used to be a reporter. He
got on board at Mischief also like in the ground
and he was kind of like helping us with all
of that and being like a PR person turn new business.
And so everybody was kind of just very busy the
whole time and not needing to go after clients. But
(32:29):
that was the part I think that was kind of
like thiscarious in the beginnings, like, ah, what if we're
just sitting around looking at each other and it never happened.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Who was your first client?
Speaker 5 (32:39):
It was craft?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Actually, yeah, yes, And that's the medium I just had
today and like this is the funny. Yeah, they were
the first client and we did a Capris so and
project with them and then the MC and Cheese sand
nudes campaign and they were very, very first clients. So
it's a big, big client to be the first one to.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
I did cat present at one point in my life too.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Bangle was there.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I know, the said nudes campaign hilarious and maybe not
maybe you all from the get go, I mean, by
the way, talk about going from zero to sixty with
Craft as your as your first client, you don't really
get to, you know, have any mulligans. There was there
a moment or a pitch where you all felt, you know,
maybe you Greg and Kevin said, you know what, I
We're onto something here. This is not just mischift on
(33:26):
a paper with a business plan, but you know, our
ideas are actually landing.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I think we didn't do that a lot in the beginning.
To be honest, we were very like we I remember
like someone in the team having to stop everybody to
be like, guys, can we stop right now to just
kind of like talk about what's happening or celebrate because like,
how how did we make that thing? Or how like
are we going like getting so you know, like people
are interested, like what's happening because we're very cats down
(33:56):
doing the work and focusing and like kind of like
you know, trying to to get things done versus like
stopping to either to celebrate or just get acknowledged. So
I think it was very it was very surreal, and
I don't I remember like not pausing enough to just
kind of like be like, wow, well, look at what
(34:16):
we were accomplishing in such a small period of time.
But obviously I think the drive and the joy that
it was giving us was feeling all the energy that
we're putting on it. We knew that we were all
also kind of like raising a little baby together, and
it just feels so much more For me for the
first time, it felt so much more exciting too. I
(34:37):
mean I was already excited by the way to be
doing it for like even though it wasn't like I
didn't have a piece of the pie, but like just
doing it in a way that you're also like it's
your thing too. We just so it feels so special
and it just to this day it's been four years,
I wake up and I'm like I love this and
I love the people, and I'm so excited and I'm
so happy and this is so great and yeah, so
(34:59):
it's yeah, I'm a bit of a I'm still very
positive about it all wonderful.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
You're a dreamer.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, we've just got a little bit of some time here,
so I'll ask I'll ask you this last question, Bianca.
We're going to fast forward maybe ten years, and you're
in Shelley's C and we're bringing on the twenty thirty
four class of af's Hall of Achievement. Couldn't tell you
who's there on the other end of the microphone, but
(35:27):
at that moment in time, where's mischief?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I mean, I hope that I hope that we are
still an AGENC that's recognized for doing amazing work, that
we're able to figure out a way to be big
but still maintain our essence.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I think that's what kind of keeps us up right now.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
It's just make sure that you grow really carefully and
that you're not taking on too much, even if they're
good opportunities. Just kind of like being careful with not
doing too many things so you can do things well.
So I hope we did a good job there because
we've spent a lot a lot of time keeping that
in mind, and I and maybe maybe a couple offices
(36:05):
around the world, maybe one in Brazil, maybe I visit
my family sometimes and work from there. But I yeah,
I see Mischief as you know, a long term, big
thing we're building and hopefully can be an agency that
inspires also other smaller agencies that are coming up. I'm
get so excited and by the way, we were inspired
by so many of them already. I know we're not
(36:26):
the new ones doing it, but like, I get so
excited to see all these new offices coming coming up.
And I want advertising to be this healthy, amazing business
with lots of options for everybody to work in. And
then the fact that like places like oh go v bbdo,
like the fact that they're like still huge and able
(36:47):
to do so much good work. I'm like, yes, we
need diversity of like all sorts of like different sizes
and agency types and you know, people that do one
thing well and not like I'm just I really want
the business to be as healthy as it can be
in the options to be like you know many, So
I get really excited about cheering each other on and
(37:10):
really kind of being in any way like an agency
that's doing really well in the midst of like many.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Others, Shelly as someone who's maybe walked a mile or
two on the path that Bianca's on, any any words
of wisdom as she gets to that next ten years now.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Absolutely, I was actually thinking this tim is, as Bianca
was talking, is because you know we have I watched
David Oakley sort of start. You know, he didn't have
any clients and it was just him. He only added
and made so it would sound bigger. And he started out,
you know, in nineteen forty eight alone with no clients
(37:48):
and just you know, built a build a company. He
built an advertising agency. But one of the things he
did he started out with a point of view about
how an agency should run, what was important, how people
should treat each other. Actually he defined the culture. And
as I listened to you Bianca, I think you know
(38:09):
what that is too. But he wrote it down. It
was really important. It wasn't the writing down part. It
was it was sort of being deliberate about this is
what we believe, this is what we value, This is
how we think we should treat each other. This is
where clients fit, this is the respect we have for them.
And it's what's amazing to me is you know, seventy
(38:33):
five years later, Ogilvie still lives by those principles, and so, Bianka,
you can live forever if you just sort of, you know,
sort of figure out what those principles are, what you believe.
I mean, they get interpreted in different ways as life
changes and all that, but at the heart of it all,
it is a set of beliefs, a set of values
(38:53):
that weren't there at the start, you know, of the company.
And it also gives the ability to move around the
world because you can sort of start in any country
with a set of beliefs and an approach.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
And so.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
To this very day, this morning, I made a decision
about something to do and I decided not to I
was asked to do decided not to do it. And
it was because David Ogilvie, all the way back in
the nineteen fifties said never do this, and it was
it came back to me at eleven o'clock this morning
(39:30):
and I said, I'm not doing this. And so just
just you know, kind of write it helps to write
it down. It's a good discipline, you know, to actually
write this is what we believe, and this is what
we will always do, this is what we will never do,
and then you'll live for one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
I'm so inspired by you, Honestly, it's amazing. The thing.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I love this conversation. I've learned so much and I
just feel like I want to do this more for
another three hours because I have so many other things
that I want to ask you. But it's really inspiring
and amazing to see to talk to you, to hear
all of this and to know I think you're absolutely right.
I think having establishing what you're about and just making
(40:16):
sure that that can continue on if you do it,
like if you do a good job of like instilling
that into you know, in the agency, and it's really
the key.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
So thanks for the reminder.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, and that, my friends, is the story of how
Bianca showed up three hours late to her client pitch.
All Shelley's fault and Tim's fault.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Takes full responsibility.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Thank you both so much for the conversation. This was wonderful,
and I'm also very glad that you two got to
meet each other. I'm also glad to have met you
as well. I'm Tim Natividad thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another episode before you know it. And
for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go to
(41:02):
a a F dot org.
Hello, Welcome to Season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future. I'm your
host Tim Natividad.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
And I'm your host Christina Pile.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And with that, let's meet the legends. Welcome, Welcome back
to Future Legends of Advertising Today, I am thrilled to
introduce Bianca Guimerez, an Emmy winning executive creative director and
(00:51):
founding partner at Mischief. Bianca's career is marked by bold,
culture shifting campaigns including Thinks, Menstruation, and the impactful anti
bullying campaign The Epidemic with Monica Lewinsky. She made headlines
when she left her secure role at BBDO to co
launch a new agency, of Course, in the midst of
a global pandemic. Her work has not only earned her
(01:14):
an Emmy and over one hundred international awards, but also
recognition as one of ad Ages forty under forty as
well as Business Insiders thirty under thirty. Multiple times Beyonca's
mission is clear to inspire young women to see themselves
in advertising and push the boundaries of what creative leadership
looks like. Beyonca, thanks for joining us. Seems like you're
(01:37):
I know that background well, seems like you're deep in
a phone booth somewhere in corporate America.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I am in midtown. Very very special, Yes, artists for
this talk, very relevant.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Joining us now is Shelley Lazarus, a true icon in
the industry and Chairman Emerita of Ogilvy. Shelley's career spans
over four decades, nearly all of them at Ogilvy, where
she began her journey during the era when the legendary
David Ogilvie himself walked the halls. Named worldwide CEO in
(02:12):
nineteen ninety six and Chairman in nineteen ninety seven, Shelley
led Ogilvy with an unweavering focus on building powerful, enduring
brands for global giants, giants like IBM, Coca Cola, and Unilever.
Her legacy is built on passionate leadership and a commitment
to excellence, making her a guiding light for generations of
(02:35):
advertising professionals. You know, this is a pretty impressive class
that we have this year, and just thinking through this episode,
there are really only few people who have the background
and track record as Shelley, and so as we look
at how we want to spend our conversation today, I
kind of thought maybe a really interesting place to start,
Shelley might just be if you could walk us back
(02:57):
to maybe the early days of your time, even entering
at Maxwell House, and what was like just coming into
the industry as one of the fewer female voices in
a fairly male dominated industry, and how they catapulted or
influenced your vision for your career. Obviously, Bianca today represents
not just women in leadership, but also having come from
(03:19):
the bipop community as well, which we'll talk through in
detail as well.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Well. Thank you Tim. It's I always like sort of
starting with my story because it was everything was an accident.
I'm looking forward to hearing whether Bianca had a similar
sort of start. But I really had no idea what
I wanted to do, but I needed to make money
(03:46):
because I was in love and my boyfriend fiance was
in medical school and I was setting out in nineteen
sixty eight, and there are many people who remember this,
but if you were a woman in nineteen sixty eight
and you wanted to work in the commercial world, you
had to type pretty much, and so I really didn't
(04:10):
want to do that. Somebody said to me, I think
if you had an MBA, they couldn't make you type.
It was a hypothetical, It was not a sure thing.
But anyway, I didn't know what that was. But I
went and I found out, and I found out that Columbia,
where my now husband was going to medical school, they
had a business school and they gave MBAs. So I
(04:34):
went and got an MBA, again, not having any idea
what I wanted to do. I was one of four
women in a class of three hundred. I mean you
just sort of the visual of it for women and
two hundred and ninety six men and so. But the
great thing that happened is that I sort of fell
in love with marketing and advertising. I didn't know it
(04:55):
was a thing until I got to business school, and
I didn't find a lot of what I was studying
that interesting, but I love marketing. I just thought it
was fascinating, and so that's that's sort of how I
set out. There were agencies and companies that wouldn't hire
(05:16):
women MBAs. I mean, they were nice about it. They
always had some reason, like you know, the the carrying case,
the sample case when you go out on sales training
was so heavy that a woman, you know, wouldn't be
able to handle it, because that was part of the training.
Or one of my other favorites was we have so
(05:38):
few spots, so we couldn't waste one on a woman.
Some very prestigious company at representative actually said that to me,
And so, you know, I just kind of the thing
that's amazing when I look back in retrospect was that
I didn't sort of stand up and walk out in
a huff. I didn't find it Outgus, I said, it
(06:01):
was just more kind of the way it was. So
I did get a job as a client. I worked
at Claral on all kinds of hair things.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
I was very happy there. I found it really interesting.
And then I got a call from Ogilvie one day
saying they were looking for somebody to work on a
Unilever account. They needed someone who knew something about hair.
So because I had been at Clarle, I was a
good candidate. I never expected to go to Ogilvie. I
mean it was quite happy at Clarle, but I had
(06:33):
been an intern at General Foods in the Maxwell House division,
and Ogilvy was the agency for the I did it
for the summer, and so I thought, well, I'm not
going to go there, but I'd love to go back
and see some of my old friends. And so I went,
I interviewed, I got seduced, and I went there thinking, Okay,
well I'll do two years in an agency. I did
(06:55):
two years at a client, although two years at an agency,
and they'll figure it all up. And so I went
to Ogilvy and I never left. I mean, that's that's
the whole story. It was sort of I fell in
almost accidentally, and and then I never left. But but
your you know, your question, Tim is a fascinating one
(07:16):
because because it looked completely different. I mean I was
very often the only woman in the room. And in
those days, almost everything we were selling was to women.
It was consumer package goods. I mean, those were the
big advertisers. So it was detergent and margarine and shampoo
and coffee and and all that stuff, and and so
(07:40):
beyond I'm thinking that there was actually there was one
female creative director one in the entire agency. Uh she
got more of the really really girly girl uh products Revacorda.
She was great, but it was just a completely differ
for an environment. And you know, there would be moments
(08:04):
where I'd be speaking on the part of all the
women in the world, because all these men would be
having conversations about how women felt about things, how women
would see things, you know what, where women were in
their lives, and at some point someone would turn to
me and go, well, Shelley, what do women think? And
(08:25):
I was speaking on behalf of all the women in
the world for years in the advertising industry. So anyway,
you know, fast forward to today. It's just I had
a wonderful run. It was great, and with time, more
and more women came in. And the thing that is
so wonderful I think about the time we're living in now,
(08:46):
is we had trouble sort of finding women who could
be creative leaders. And I was always asked about that
because there were a lot of women in management, you know,
with time and there weren't that many women creative leaders.
There were women who were in creative roles, but not
necessarily the leaders. And so Bianca when you know, when
(09:07):
I see your list of accomplishments and what you've done
and that you're an agency founder, it just it just
warms my heart that now we have incredible women leaders
who are leading the industry, and you know, you look
everywhere at Ogilvy. Now are our worldwide creative head. Liz Tailor.
(09:28):
I mean, she's fantastic, but she's the first woman who
we've ever had was who was the creative lead. So
I'm thinking we're living in a new, better time.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Her story is fantastic, and yeah, I love Liz. This
is Yeah, it's really really inspiring. And I have so
many other questions, but Tim, I'll let you continue for now,
for now beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
You know, if we kind of fast forward to today
where something like Mischief is live and real and growing
and there's a ton of success around it as well,
I have to imagine the Shelley from Maxwellhouse could only
dream of something like Mischief living today and breathing today.
And so maybe, Bianka, if you could just share with
us the mission behind Mischief. I know it's a relatively
(10:16):
new organization, although we're seeing a ton of momentum in general,
perhaps now would be a great time to kind of
just share with the rest of the audience what mischief
is all about.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Yeah, well, Shelly, thanks for paving the way.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I know you were there like in the trenches, but yeah,
I'll tell you a little bit about mischief. So we're
basically found on this notion of it's like this question
of what would you do if you weren't afraid? And
it is really kind of like coming from this perspective
that all these people from like big agents has kind
of came together and realized that a lot of the
(10:49):
times were whenever we face any sort of like you know,
if it's a creative presentation, or if it's a business decision,
if it's like a hiring moment, like whatever it is,
we're always kind of like coming from a place of fear,
and we're always kind of like thinking.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
The you know, how do we You know, you're playing
you're playing not.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
To lose versus to win, and you start making the
wrong decisions in our opinion when you're playing that way.
So it's really about kind of like, you know, what
would you do if you're not afraid? Like what ideas
would you present your client, what person would you hire,
what business would you say no to what you know,
So like coming from that perspective, we kind of founded
(11:29):
this agency that believes in, you know, in taking, in creating,
making a stir, and you cannot make a stir if
you're afraid. So it kind of like all comes together.
So that's the kind of like in like a quick answer,
what we are about.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
And beyond, I have to imagine. I don't know what
it was like for either of the two of you.
I can't say. Through elementary school and middle school, I
said to myself one day, I think I think I'll
get into advertising. That's that's where it's at. What kind
of drove a lot of your early interest in advertising,
both for you, Shelley and Bianca.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
I think for me it was a little similar to
Shelley's story in the sense.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
That it was I I.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Found advertising through the things that I did not like,
like so like it was almost like what was left
as like some options of things I could do based
on the things that I knew.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
I didn't want to do.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But I didn't know much about advertising, and I thought
it sounded fun, and I knew I didn't want to
be a doctor or like a lawyer or I know,
like I kind of like went through all these things
and I was like, okay, no, no, no, no, what's left?
It was like you know at the time, and I'm
from Brazil and there was kind of like radio n
TV was like when options seen him. I was an option,
(12:46):
fashion was an option, and advertising was an option. Of
the things that were left that I kind of like
felt like, oh, maybe one of those things. But it
was really not until I started it that I really fell.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
In love with it.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
And I was like, how lucky am I that I
ended up here? And I really loved this and like
I still can't explain, but it was really something that
I ran into and I was like, I really liked
this thing, and with time I got to understand what
it was really about.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Well, I think one of the reasons that I sort
of liked it as much as I did when I
was first exposed is that I majored in psychology in
college and so this was kind of my goodness. Never
thought about it. If you changed the stimulus, you could
get a different response, and so it was just sort
of that constant game of what could we do to
(13:41):
the stimulus and you And then I discovered that you
could play the game with these remarkable people. I mean,
I didn't know people in advertising until I actually, you know,
went to Ogiley. But you had all these writers and
artists and uh you know, musicians and who were now
just focusing their talents on you know, on advertising, on
(14:06):
something quite specific, and so, you know, it never felt
like work to me. It just was. It was so
fun to You're solving this, you know, kind of knotty problem,
but you're solving it with a bunch of really talented
people who are a little nad, a little crazy, but
(14:27):
fearless in a way I mean, And so you know,
you just sort of look forward to coming to the
office every day, you know, I thought, and my god,
and then you get paid on top of everything for
spending your day in such a fun way.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And Shelly, I've heard you talk about that in various
interviews you've conducted. Were a lot of career success, at
least as the way you've described it just kind of
comes down to the love of the game, right, and
then on top of it, you say, hey, I happen
to get paid for this, or maybe in Beyonca's case,
she can say I happened to you know, while doing
the nine to five get nominated for several Emmys, and
(15:06):
so biancle, what was that story about? So it sounds
like through your work and through your you know, obviously
the impact on upward social mobility for certain underrepresented identities
is a big part of the mission and what drives
both of you to show up at the office. But
then of course some of the i'll call it perks
of the job come along. Could you just what was
(15:28):
that story and how did what was the moment when
you first realized, wow, I am together with my team
nominated for not just one, but several Emmys.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, it's interesting because I didn't realize the power of
advertising into what was already doing it. And that's when
I said, like, I was so lucky that I look
and I was like, I'm so happy I landed here,
and like I didn't see the impact that it could
happen people's lives.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I didn't really know how it worked.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But anyway, in my second I moved to New York
fifteen years ago, and you know, my second job was
at BBDO and I remember my first brief at by
Video was a brief for Autism Speaks, and it was
you know, we had that kind of I've always been
equally like Shelley is saying, excited about our jobs, and
I don't really see it as a job, and like
(16:15):
the whole the fact that we get paid for this
and it's so fun. I'm like, I feel like the
best profession in the world. So, you know, I was
super excited hire like you know, New Higher Energy, and
I went all out with my partner at that brief,
and then we did a good job at the brief,
like the you know, we ended up being able to
sell like a few different campaigns to that client and.
Speaker 5 (16:37):
Produce work right away.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
And the work was seen internally, I think in the
agency as like a case of success, and people were like,
you know, people liked it. So once you kind of
like are on people's radar, and like if people start
kind of like knows you in the department, it's like
really you someone kind of asks you to put you
on a brief. So like another brief or like another
nonprofit came in and they were like, well, Bianca did
(17:01):
a good job on that, why don't we put Bianca
on this? And then you and then I worked on
another thing and that was like I think, like a
climate change thing. And then the climate change thing was
interesting and it came out well too, and then it
was like, well, now we have Monica Lewinsky and Sandy
Hook Promise like in the building and they like want
to do like these campaigns. And at the time, specifically
for Sandy Hook, which was one of the Emmys, we
(17:23):
you know, there was a guy Peter Sente running the
brand and they had like you know done, I think
like they were working for maybe a year or so
together and Peter then invited me, is like, hey, I
need a creative partner to run the business with me.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
Do you want to do it? And I'm like, sure,
that sounds great.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
And so that's when we kind of like did for
the next four years or so campaigns year after a
year for them. And so it's it was this process
of once you kind of like once people know you,
and for some reason the nonprofit thing became something that's
kind of like Bianca, you know, like Bianca has done that,
and I very you know, it feels like to me
(18:01):
kind of like makes my karma a little more leveled
when I'm kind of like selling chocolate to people, and
at the same time, if I can do something good
for the world, it just kind of like it feels
so rewarding, and I was happy to really be embracing
that and and I think you know that happens too
with product briefs as well. But I embraced the thing
(18:22):
and like you know, with causes, it almost felt like
that was my life and like I needed to solve
that problem for the world, especially with Sandy hook promise.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
Like after I had kids, I was like, this is
I can't, like we need to figure this out.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So it was just like I think, you know, this
combination of being really passionate about it but also wanting
to create change and seeing like how powerful advertising is
to be able to do that. And yeah, and I
did a few of those along with some other kind
of like you know, non non nonprofit stuff.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
And that's where the awards come in.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I guess they're kind of like a you know, the
it's like the outcome when you do a good job.
But it was never really kind of like the first
main goal, even though it's nice to do it and
I won't lie that it feels it feels great to
celebrate in that to be the outcome.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Was there a ceremony? Did you go to a thing
with a black tie and go up on a stage, and.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
All my my coworkers did go to like the one
time we were a couple of times we were nominated.
I had just had a kid, which is funny, like
when I had a baby, my my my first next
after I had my first son, the next year and
a half was one of my most productive years at
the office And it was when I launched like a
lot of those those pieces of work, and I didn't
(19:43):
go I had the baby, but we did zooms with like,
you know, the team and to like celebrate. It was
also like pandemic was kind of like it was all
this kind of combination of things. But I they had
a great time, and I was jealous. So maybe you
need to like try to try to do it again.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Well that's great, and Bianca, So I'll give you just
a sort of a preview of you know, a later
chapter in your life. Turns out that all these causes
they need what we know how to do, and so
you can sort of take your whole lifetime of experience
in you know, communicating and persuading people and then just
decide where you want to focus your time and attention.
(20:23):
You know, what causes, what issues and your dance card
fills up very quickly. But it's very satisfying to be
able to take what you know how to do as
your profession and your career and then make a difference
with things that you really care about.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Very true, Shelly, was that how you were just kind
of dialing back the clock a little bit. You are
actually an inductee of AAF's Hall of Fame. I believe
that was in twenty thirteen, and so just thinking through,
you know, there's been some time since you received that.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
A war with the rest of your class.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
How have you seen, you know, over these last ten
plus years, have you seen the industry change and transform?
And where have you seen the advertising fulfill some of
the ambition and promise that even back in twenty thirteen
you thought was maybe only just a dream.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Well, you know, the thing is that what hasn't changed
is the power of a big idea. I mean, so
everyone's everything's changed, and people got everything's changed, the world's
not the same. Well, the one thing that hasn't changed
is the power of a big idea. And I would
argue that as the media has gotten more fragmented and
(21:39):
the number of places that you can meet people has
grown exponentially, it's increasingly important that you have a big idea,
something that kind of pulls all the things together. And
so I think the possibilities, the opportunities for how you
(21:59):
can deliver your message to someone, you know, it's just
extraordinary now. It boggles them on. I always say, you know,
if you can think it, you can do it now.
And so that the most creative part of presentations now
is what you know we used to call the media
part is okay, so we have this idea, how are
(22:21):
we going to deliver it to the audiences that we
want to reach? So, you know, I think that part
is extraordinary. I'll do a commercial now for a review
I have. I think separating out media and creative all
those years ago was a mistake. I actually think it
should come back together because when we used to sit
(22:41):
together and dream together, and the ideas that went back
and forth between what the idea was and where you
could put it led to extraordinary results. I mean, you know,
it's just uh. I always say. My best example was
(23:02):
we had when we introduced e commerce for IBM. The
idea that the creative people had was, you know, how
do you make sure everybody knows what this is in
the space of four days. Well, the answer was eight
straight pages in the Wall Street Journal, the ft the
German newspaper. They forget the name now. And if you
(23:25):
said to a media person, how would you think about
a media plan, There's no way in hell that they
would do eight consecutive pages in you know, in one publication.
But as we talked together, it became so obvious, it
became such a big idea. It made each side, you know,
each group's idea bigger. And so I'm hoping I'm thinking
(23:48):
that media and creative get back together again in some way,
at least that they think together. And I think it
would be good for TikTok tim I actually do you know,
just to have the idea come out of hole.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Well, it's interesting, you know the the obviously people come
to TikTok as a reach driver and you know, media
media pipes basically turns out. I'll say two things. One,
I don't think you've really lived a day in your
life as a parent until you've done a TikTok dance
with your child. But having said that, okay, there there
(24:23):
you go, there you go, I will say, you know,
making my own tiktoks is I'll put it like this,
It's easier to sell TikTok as an ad platform, at
least for me personally, than it is actually make a TikTok.
And turns out brands have the same challenge when it
comes to building creative fit for for TikTok as well.
And so you know, at least through the lens of TikTok,
we have kind of seen this blend of where creative
(24:46):
plays a role much much earlier upstream and the stages
prior to you know, the media planning stages, and we're
starting to see that play out as well. Although I
have to imagine Bianca, you know, just as a creative,
you know, born and bred creative, your elf. I'm sure
you've also seen parts of Shelley's vision here on the
role that media and creative can play together for joint success.
Speaker 5 (25:08):
I could not agree more.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
In Brazil, media and the end, you know, the agency
is still a thing, and it's like when people are
asking about the biggest difference between like you know, how
the agencies work here and there, and I'm like, media,
can we bring it back? So we're working on it
at Mischief, But I agree it's like things work better
when you're more integrated, for sure.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
And how much of your time at bbdo you know,
we should spend some time talking about that, Bianca, how
did that influence your vision for Mischief? And maybe we
can talk about this in two parts, right when you
think about what strong creative looks like, how much of
that just came from the grounding and the foundation set
at BBDO And then number two, of course, I think
(25:50):
if you look at the rest of the folks who
are in the Hall of Achievement or perhaps in the
Hall of Fame, invariably at some point along their path,
you know, they say, you know what, this is great,
I'm going to try something out on my own. And
I think that's a pretty big bet. Now, I bet
that you chose to make with intense hunger and vision
(26:12):
and testament to the success that Mischief has today. But
you know, always easy to say that now with look
looking through the rear view window, that's probably not how
you felt in twenty twenty and missed a pandemic. So
if you could also let's just maybe talk about what
that leap of faith was like for you at that
moment in time.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Yeah, you know, I was at Bibo for six years
and on the pandemic the you know, I by the way,
I used to work with Kevin Morroy, who was my
partner now also one of the partners at Mischief, and
we used to work together at Babydo and with at Bibdeo.
I think we've learned a lot from the leadership there, right,
like Greg Huhn, who was like the chief creative officer
there at the time. Then there was David Loubars, and
(26:52):
you know, I think part of like the you know,
six years that we were there, it shaped us as
creatives to think in a similar way or kind of too.
I do things that were similar to like Greg and
you know, the leadership there in the sense of like
there was always a lot of I think Greg was
very always very strategic and he there's there was always
like a lot of a lot of time given to
(27:16):
that part of the process, which I think made us
kind of the creatives that really value that and were
very ground like, you know, made us very much more
grounded into like strategy and thinking bigger about it. And
I think that's a little bit of like what we
think is our secret sauce and Mischief, which is not
really a secret. And I think a lot of people
(27:37):
talk about the importance of strategy, but I think that
growing up under that and learning how to think that
way and kind of like having similar sensibilities ended ended
up making us great partners to start something together when
you're talking about, you know, having the same similar vision
and sensibilities. And so when Greg got lego at bivideo
(27:59):
because it was the pandemic make and that whole thing
where everybody was a little bit like shocked that it
was happening. He is very good at his job, and
you know, we usually say that like the only kind
of like guarantee you have nowadays, Like when you know,
in a world where Greg Hunt gets let go, it's
like being good at your job because you can land
on your feet really well.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
And that's what you know too.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Not even two months later, we you know, we taught
he reached out and it was kind of like, Hey,
I'm going to start an agency.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
Do you and Kevin want to do this?
Speaker 3 (28:30):
And we were like, that's the you know, to me,
when you're talking about doing this thing where you stop
and you're like, I'm going to do my own thing.
I don't know if I would have like stopped and
done my own thing, if it was kind of like
me on my own as like my kind of like
idea that I always thought advertising feels such a tough
business in the sense that like you build so much
(28:50):
and then you lose a client and you like everything,
like it just always felt so fragile that I was like,
I want to get to like, you know, to the
top somewhere that's already established, and I want to be
part of our leadership of something big. But like I
in my head, it was kind of like I don't
know if the idea of starting something would have kind
of come for me. But when you know, someone like
Greg said hey, do you guys want to do this?
(29:13):
We were like yes, and it felt like the worst
that can happen is the agency is not going to
work out and we're going to learn a lot, and
we're going to do something more entrepreneurial, something very different
than what we're doing here. And it was it was
that that was kind of like it we you know,
was the starting the stars aligne where also like we
had our president was at the time was kind of
(29:36):
like also available. And I won't tell too much backstory
because it would be too long. We winded, But it
was like the sort of combination of a few people
at the same time that had similar vision, and that's
kind of how the whole thing started. Yeah, I think
that's kind of the beginning story of it, or how
I got into it.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
So Biaco, was it really scary at the start?
Speaker 3 (29:58):
The scary part was more like I knew I think
between me, Greg and Kevin, which were the people that
we knew because carry or president, like we didn't know
her before, and then our head of production and our
cso we kind of like met them as like almost
like free lancers for a project here and there, and
then we started like we're like, oh this they are
great and then kind of like they were incorporated as
(30:20):
kind of like mischief heads.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
But I think at the beginning we knew.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
The scary part was that, like I knew, meet Kevin
and Greg warn't like business people per se, and we
warn't the people that were going to be like, oh,
let me kind of like bring my rolodex and start
like you know, hitting up some clients and going out
for lunches and trying to like see if they want
to do stuff with us, and we're like, who is
going to be that person and like, and I think
that's also where kind of like two of our co
(30:45):
founders also Dave and Surge, come in and that's kind
of the story where Greg found you know, also people
that were going to do the business part of things,
and it was kind of like, you guys are creatives.
You can do your vision and you can kind of
like build the agency around that and we'll take care
of the business. But still the part about getting clients,
I think in the US because they've insurged, we're also
(31:08):
you know, from Canada. It was the part where it
us have least like you know, me and Kevin a
little more like how is it going to be yere?
We're going to have like stuff to work on where
we can find clients, And from the very beginning we
had clients kind of like I think part of it
was because it was like a big story, right like
Greg had been let go. It's kind of like this
(31:30):
comeback type story, but also a network of people that
loved and had worked with him before at Bibdeo for
so long that now was like, oh, I want that brain,
you know, for not a price of like holding company
right at that moment, So it's kind of like, way
I get access to these people for you know, not
(31:50):
you know, at the time, it's kind of like a
small agent, so we're not like, you know, charging the
same as you would somewhere else. So it's like, oh,
I get this team for sure, let's try. And we
were so busy from the very beginning. I think for
the first year and a half, we're kind of like
we didn't have to do one reach out to any clients.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
We didn't have like, you.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Know, our new business person now, we didn't have a
CIMO all the time, like and all the macteer was
kind of like he used to be a reporter. He
got on board at Mischief also like in the ground
and he was kind of like helping us with all
of that and being like a PR person turn new business.
And so everybody was kind of just very busy the
whole time and not needing to go after clients. But
(32:29):
that was the part I think that was kind of
like thiscarious in the beginnings, like, ah, what if we're
just sitting around looking at each other and it never happened.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Who was your first client?
Speaker 5 (32:39):
It was craft?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Actually, yeah, yes, And that's the medium I just had
today and like this is the funny. Yeah, they were
the first client and we did a Capris so and
project with them and then the MC and Cheese sand
nudes campaign and they were very, very first clients. So
it's a big, big client to be the first one to.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
I did cat present at one point in my life too.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
Bangle was there.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I know, the said nudes campaign hilarious and maybe not
maybe you all from the get go, I mean, by
the way, talk about going from zero to sixty with
Craft as your as your first client, you don't really
get to, you know, have any mulligans. There was there
a moment or a pitch where you all felt, you know,
maybe you Greg and Kevin said, you know what, I
We're onto something here. This is not just mischift on
(33:26):
a paper with a business plan, but you know, our
ideas are actually landing.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I think we didn't do that a lot in the beginning.
To be honest, we were very like we I remember
like someone in the team having to stop everybody to
be like, guys, can we stop right now to just
kind of like talk about what's happening or celebrate because like,
how how did we make that thing? Or how like
are we going like getting so you know, like people
are interested, like what's happening because we're very cats down
(33:56):
doing the work and focusing and like kind of like
you know, trying to to get things done versus like
stopping to either to celebrate or just get acknowledged. So
I think it was very it was very surreal, and
I don't I remember like not pausing enough to just
kind of like be like, wow, well, look at what
(34:16):
we were accomplishing in such a small period of time.
But obviously I think the drive and the joy that
it was giving us was feeling all the energy that
we're putting on it. We knew that we were all
also kind of like raising a little baby together, and
it just feels so much more For me for the
first time, it felt so much more exciting too. I
(34:37):
mean I was already excited by the way to be
doing it for like even though it wasn't like I
didn't have a piece of the pie, but like just
doing it in a way that you're also like it's
your thing too. We just so it feels so special
and it just to this day it's been four years,
I wake up and I'm like I love this and
I love the people, and I'm so excited and I'm
so happy and this is so great and yeah, so
(34:59):
it's yeah, I'm a bit of a I'm still very
positive about it all wonderful.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
You're a dreamer.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Well, we've just got a little bit of some time here,
so I'll ask I'll ask you this last question, Bianca.
We're going to fast forward maybe ten years, and you're
in Shelley's C and we're bringing on the twenty thirty
four class of af's Hall of Achievement. Couldn't tell you
who's there on the other end of the microphone, but
(35:27):
at that moment in time, where's mischief?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
I mean, I hope that I hope that we are
still an AGENC that's recognized for doing amazing work, that
we're able to figure out a way to be big
but still maintain our essence.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
I think that's what kind of keeps us up right now.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
It's just make sure that you grow really carefully and
that you're not taking on too much, even if they're
good opportunities. Just kind of like being careful with not
doing too many things so you can do things well.
So I hope we did a good job there because
we've spent a lot a lot of time keeping that
in mind, and I and maybe maybe a couple offices
(36:05):
around the world, maybe one in Brazil, maybe I visit
my family sometimes and work from there. But I yeah,
I see Mischief as you know, a long term, big
thing we're building and hopefully can be an agency that
inspires also other smaller agencies that are coming up. I'm
get so excited and by the way, we were inspired
by so many of them already. I know we're not
(36:26):
the new ones doing it, but like, I get so
excited to see all these new offices coming coming up.
And I want advertising to be this healthy, amazing business
with lots of options for everybody to work in. And
then the fact that like places like oh go v bbdo,
like the fact that they're like still huge and able
(36:47):
to do so much good work. I'm like, yes, we
need diversity of like all sorts of like different sizes
and agency types and you know, people that do one
thing well and not like I'm just I really want
the business to be as healthy as it can be
in the options to be like you know many, So
I get really excited about cheering each other on and
(37:10):
really kind of being in any way like an agency
that's doing really well in the midst of like many.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Others, Shelly as someone who's maybe walked a mile or
two on the path that Bianca's on, any any words
of wisdom as she gets to that next ten years now.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Absolutely, I was actually thinking this tim is, as Bianca
was talking, is because you know we have I watched
David Oakley sort of start. You know, he didn't have
any clients and it was just him. He only added
and made so it would sound bigger. And he started out,
you know, in nineteen forty eight alone with no clients
(37:48):
and just you know, built a build a company. He
built an advertising agency. But one of the things he
did he started out with a point of view about
how an agency should run, what was important, how people
should treat each other. Actually he defined the culture. And
as I listened to you Bianca, I think you know
(38:09):
what that is too. But he wrote it down. It
was really important. It wasn't the writing down part. It
was it was sort of being deliberate about this is
what we believe, this is what we value, This is
how we think we should treat each other. This is
where clients fit, this is the respect we have for them.
And it's what's amazing to me is you know, seventy
(38:33):
five years later, Ogilvie still lives by those principles, and so, Bianka,
you can live forever if you just sort of, you know,
sort of figure out what those principles are, what you believe.
I mean, they get interpreted in different ways as life
changes and all that, but at the heart of it all,
it is a set of beliefs, a set of values
(38:53):
that weren't there at the start, you know, of the company.
And it also gives the ability to move around the
world because you can sort of start in any country
with a set of beliefs and an approach.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
And so.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
To this very day, this morning, I made a decision
about something to do and I decided not to I
was asked to do decided not to do it. And
it was because David Ogilvie, all the way back in
the nineteen fifties said never do this, and it was
it came back to me at eleven o'clock this morning
(39:30):
and I said, I'm not doing this. And so just
just you know, kind of write it helps to write
it down. It's a good discipline, you know, to actually
write this is what we believe, and this is what
we will always do, this is what we will never do,
and then you'll live for one hundred years.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
I'm so inspired by you, Honestly, it's amazing. The thing.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
I love this conversation. I've learned so much and I
just feel like I want to do this more for
another three hours because I have so many other things
that I want to ask you. But it's really inspiring
and amazing to see to talk to you, to hear
all of this and to know I think you're absolutely right.
I think having establishing what you're about and just making
(40:16):
sure that that can continue on if you do it,
like if you do a good job of like instilling
that into you know, in the agency, and it's really
the key.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
So thanks for the reminder.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, and that, my friends, is the story of how
Bianca showed up three hours late to her client pitch.
All Shelley's fault and Tim's fault.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Takes full responsibility.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Thank you both so much for the conversation. This was wonderful,
and I'm also very glad that you two got to
meet each other. I'm also glad to have met you
as well. I'm Tim Natividad thank you for listening. We'll
be back with another episode before you know it. And
for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go to
(41:02):
a a F dot org.
Hosts And Creators
Ross Martin
Hayley Romer
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