April 3, 2025 • 41 mins
Ad Council CEO Lisa Sherman and CultureCon founder Imani Ellis join Christena to talk about building viral campaigns like Love Has No Labels, scaling CultureCon from a living room meetup to 10,000+ attendees, and navigating change—from corporate pivots to creative burnout. Packed with real talk and hard-won wisdom, this episode is a playbook for purposeful leadership.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, Welcome to season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm your host Tim Natividad and I'm your host Christina Pile.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And with that, let's meet the legends.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome, we are back with another incredible episode of our podcast.
We have two dynamic leaders as our guests today. I
have been eagerly awaiting this one. I'm not gonna lie.
Our first guest honestly doesn't need much of an introduction,
(00:55):
but I'll give you one anyway. Her name alone is
synonymous with super hero in a world of advertising and beyond.
In her role as President and CEO of the AD
Council are Superhero aka Lisa Sherman leads in all aspects
of the national nonprofit that is a lynchpin of doing
good in advertising. The AD Council has been an institution
(01:16):
that is aimed at educating, uplifting and uniting the world
by telling stories through advertising Lisa spearheads the work of
the AD Council, standing at the intersection of media marketing, tech, entertainment, advertising,
and philanthropy to build creative social impact campaigns that drive
change globally. US late comers who know Lisa from her
(01:37):
superhero days at AD Council, we all know that you
don't get inducted into the Advertising Hall of Fame for
just one life and only one chapter. There are so
many Lisa Sherman chapters. Lisa has more than thirty five
years of advertising experience, working for companies like Viacom. She
launched and led the Logo TV, the first network Forriology
(01:59):
bach Qia plus audiences. She spent time of Verizon and
Hill Holiday and somewhere along the way, she also co
founded the Women's Sports Network marketing company. If you could
only know then what we know now about the power
of women's sports, maybe you knew all along. Lisa's important
work continues, but we're looking forward to taking a brief
(02:21):
pause to induct her into the Advertising Hall of Fame
next month. Congrats Lisa, Thanks Christina, thanks and welcome to
the pod.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Happy to be here. Do whatever you tell me.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We're very excited to celebrate you. But while you're probably
delivering your acceptance speech, I'll be delivering a baby, So
I'm gonna miss that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So excited for you, Lisa, New York is your home
through and through. But where are you calling in? Where
are you dialing? And where are you joining us from?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I am calling from my home out in Long Island,
where I should be building an arc because it's been
raining for twenty four hours and my poor her legs crossed,
she doesn't like the rain.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Our next guest, and speaking of building, transforming and growing organizations,
is none other than Amani Ellis, the founder and CEO
of the Creative Collective and Culture con The Creative Collective
is a community dedicated to providing educational resources and community
for creative professionals. It has become the largest community of
(03:25):
creatives of color, with the annual three day Culture Khan
attracting more than ten thousand attendees in New York City
just outstanding. Amani's journey started in PR and communications in
the entertainment industry, beginning with handling talent at Viacom and
Universal Music Group and landing a vice president of communications
(03:45):
and unscripted Entertainment at NBCUniversal role at a very young age,
mind you, and speaking of handling talent, Amani began working
at NBC Universal, starting as a page and then eventually
becoming Andy Cohen's publicist, managing his press appearances, and she
has had to deal with a housewife or two. Ammani
(04:08):
always had a part of her that wanted to do
more for her own community, and the culture Con conference
was born from this feeling and has been featured in Vogue,
The Hollywood Reporter, Washington Post workshops that dive into niche
industry topics from building well to beating burnout and transcending
the creative block. The conference attracts luminaries like if You've
(04:30):
heard of Him, Will Smith's Ray, c L's Ross, John Legend,
Issa Ray, to name a few, and in August, Amani
launched her latest project to keep the conversation going year round.
It's the culture Con Uncut podcast. Perhaps we will get
the invite to join. Congrats to you, Amani, so powerful
to see you last November walk across that stage, deliver
(04:51):
the most impactful words and you were the best dressed.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
If I have to.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Say, Christita, my gosh, can I only have introductions from
you moving forward. It's so great to be here, and Lisa,
I am such an admirer of your work on what
you've built.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So yeah, just so happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I feel the same like I said, I feel like
our paths we sort of followed each other around between
Viacom and working with NBC Universal and all these things,
and fantastic, thrilled to be doing this together.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, thank you to the AF because today we get
to send conversation, explore your careers, your setbacks, your hopes.
Starting with you, Lisa. You recently celebrated ten years at
the AD Council, which puts you around twenty fifteen. A
couple things going on at that time. Snapchat, filters introduced,
selfie sticks were wildly popular, Apple watches, Apple music, avocado toast,
(05:46):
the millennials spend all their money and won't be able
to retire. On Hamilton, debuted on Broadway, and the finale
of mad Men. How nice as you step into this role,
but take us back there, take us back to some
of your favorite experiences, some of the standout campaigns, and
what you feel uniquely proud of.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, first of all, it's hard for me to imagine
and actually believe that it's been ten years. I still
sort of walk around feeling like the new girl, which
is so crazy. But yeah, twenty fifteen was an interesting time,
lots of new technologies coming into the space. We happened
to launch our Love Has No Labels campaign shortly after
(06:28):
I joined, and if you remember that campaign, which was
the Skeletons, focusing on diversity, inclusion and belonging. It was
the first time I'd ever experienced anything going viral. It
was super cool. Like I just kept refreshing my keyboard
and like the numbers just kept going up and up
and up and up. Because that piece of film just
(06:51):
captured everyone's imagination and I think it really sort of
set the AD Council on the trajector that I think
we've been on, you know, sort of reaching broadly in
culture in a way that people started to say wow.
So that was a great way to start. And you know,
(07:12):
lots of issues we work on, many of them. I'm
proud of all of them. And I will tell you
that the thing that just brings me such joy and
hope in the world is watching our industry come together
to do good. And that's really what the organization is
all about how do we use the power of our
(07:32):
industry to change hearts and minds on really important social
issues that we're challenged with.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, love has no labels. That was the work
you did with Urga, Yeah, yeah, it has. It was
so timely and ahead of its time. And I feel
the same way about your Stars program, where you guys
have brought a lot of attention through the ad counsel
to talent that might be skilled in a different way,
(08:01):
and it could not fall at a better time where
universities and we're rethinking who qualifies for industry. I just
have to say, like you presided over some of the
best work of our time.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Well, you know, this work is a team sport, and
I get to represent it publicly, but honestly, I have
the most extraordinary team, and we work with the leaders
of our industry who are all in on helping us.
So I feel like I've got the best job on
the planet, quite honestly.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And you're not done yet exactly, Amani. I could say
the same thing for you. It just kind of organically.
You're approaching nine years of culture con Has it been
nine years?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think we're shy of that we're at eight years,
but goodness, who's counting it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Oh okay, I'm you know, putting it out there. We're
going to be at the ten year anniversary celebrating. Could
you give me some of the same thoughts about some
of the work. E've been so proud of some of
the moments that just transcend over the last eight years
of developing this community and pulling off culture gone every year.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it really has been the
honor of a lifetime to be able to build these
spaces that we hadn't always seen. And I think, similar
to what Lisa just said, it's the team behind it
that is some of the most magical experience. I did
what they say you should never do. I worked with
my friends, and so I invited ten of my friends
(09:36):
to my living room and I said, I think we
deserve a place like this, and we all were a
little bit naive. And I think that naivete was one
of our superpowers because we had no idea that a
one hundred person event would scale to a ten thousand
person event. And I think part of the beauty was
(09:56):
we had no idea and so as we've.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Grown the collective.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Over the years, it's been so incredible to ask our
community what do you want to learn, what do you
want to see, and then to put that on the stage.
One of my favorite moments had to be, you know,
when Tracey Ellis Ross came and she's speaking on the
Culture con stage about being self conscious about her hair
growing up. And I'm looking at Tracey Yellis Ross, like
(10:23):
you have the most beautiful hair I've ever seen. But
the humanity of her saying I didn't always feel that way,
I think really encouraged you know, creatives in the audience
to say that sometimes the thing that you're the most
self conscious about is your superpower. That's what makes you
really special. And so even as I've kind of navigated
(10:44):
scaling this conference, I think one of the things we
always want to keep at the forefront is that we
wanted to always feel like that living room conversation. So
we wanted to feel like we're scaling intimacy and that
everyone is really welcome.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Have you been able to stay true to that north star?
Because it does. As you scale up, you start to
add more people, you start to add more sponsors and supporters,
more brands, and you have an incredible roster brands supporting
culture Con. But have you been able to stay true
to that north Star?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think so much of culture Con is the experiential design,
and that's what I'm the most proudest of. Is people
will come up and say I met so many friends
or people are so nice here, and that shouldn't be
a surprise that people are nice at an event, but
it is built by design that culture Con feels like
a homecoming and so fun fact about me is I'm
(11:42):
an introvert, so it does not escape me that building
a space of ten thousand people is a little ironic.
But because I'm an introvert, I think about what would
it feel like to come to an event like this
by myself, or what would it feel like to come
to an event like this if I didn't live in
New York, And then our team reverse engineers that feeling.
(12:03):
So when we plan culture Con, we're planning it for
the person who comes alone. We're planning it for the
person who comes with all their friends. We're planning it
for Tracy Ellis Ross. So that everyone kind of has
to choose your own adventure experience.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I have to say, it's so interesting that you're an introvert,
and I love that you are thinking about this in
the context of someone who is an introvert. I actually
tend to be more introverted also, and I look this
up and it is a thing. It's called an extroverted introvert.
So I can be out front and I bet you
you're an extroverted introvert to Amani if you look it up,
(12:38):
the definition will describe me perfectly, and I would imagine
it would to you too. It's like, you can do
that and you do get some energy from it, but
then you hit the wall and you gotta go. You
gotta go, you gotta go recharge your batteries.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Lisa, you are my people, and when you hit the wall,
there is no like it.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Times up, we've done it exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But yeah, absolutely, I think I am an extroverted introvert,
Like I can plus it up, but it's not my nature.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Exactly, which I think is really great. It just shows
that we can be publicly facing people and sometimes our
roles require that. But that don't don't sort of just
assume that that means that we're extroverted.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Right, absolutely, absolutely, I think introverts shall inherit the earth.
I think it's it is definitely time for the quiet
power and the reflection that introverts bring.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
So bring it on.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
At least I want to go back to you and
talk about change because we are perhaps living at the
pace of change every day, and it feels like twenty
twenty four and twenty twenty five like the like Pantone
color of the year, Like it feels like the word
change is the word of the year. From I would
(13:58):
say emerging technology, to encroaching technology within our industry, to consolidation,
hybrid work. I could go on and we forget this
industry has undergone tremendous change over three decades. So how
have you navigated the many changes in this advertising and
(14:18):
marketing landscape? And no, that's a big question.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, well, you know the first thing that came to
my mind when you asked the question. I played sports
when I was a kid, and I played in high
school and I played in college, and my dad would
always say to me when he would come to my games,
He's like, Lisa, keep your knees bent, because when you
(14:42):
keep your knees bent, you sort of have a lower
center of gravity, and it gives you the opportunity to
pivot or to turn, or to not get knocked off
of your feet, you know, when something happens, and so
sort of metaphorically, I I think the way I navigate
change is trying to keep my knees bent because I
(15:04):
think the only thing we know is constant is change.
I mean, and I think inherently as humans, change is
hard because we get very set into our ways and
our behaviors. But I think a couple things. One, I
think resisting change is a fool's errand because it's happening,
and I think if we can just figure out ways
(15:26):
to embrace it. And sometimes what I do is I mean,
I'm a big question asker. You know, if I don't
understand something, I ask a lot of questions. I seek
a lot of advice, and I seek a lot of
input to really try and understand what these potential changes
mean to our business, to our teams. And I think
(15:47):
that ability to stay curious, know what I don't know,
and not be afraid to ask the questions has helped
me sort of navigate the changes that we've had to
make in almost every area of what we do every
single day. I think the biggest change, I mean, you
listed a ton of them. I'll just never forget the
(16:10):
change we all had to make On March twelfth of
twenty twenty, when the world completely shut down talk about change.
That was like a like an O shit moment. You know, sorry,
you know, we just went home and we never left.
We thought we were leaving for two weeks, and we
were gone for quite some time, and it was really
I think the other thing about change is surrounding yourself
(16:32):
with the teams that sort of you know, I'm a
very team person. I'm very team oriented because I did
play sports and I've seen the power of it, like
really relying on those that core group that can help
you navigate. And so you know, when I first got
to the AD Council, we were mostly distributing all of
our work through more traditional media and that as you
(16:55):
just mentioned Snapchat. You know, Facebook had launched maybe a
few years before, and I felt like we really needed
to understand how we take the work that we do
and partner up with these new platforms that we're going
to have this incredible reach in a very different way
than our traditional media. I can list ten things that
(17:16):
you know over the last ten years, and I think
I approach it all. I try and approach it all
the very same way with bent nees. With bent knees, yeah,
keep your knees bed. Well, we have to know right now,
right now, where you are. You know, eight months in
you probably want to keep your knees bend. People actually
(17:38):
actually yes, people keep telling me good luck with the
next eighteen years. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, well,
you're really going to have to keep your knees bent.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I'm curious, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I always love asking, you know, leaders who I admire
about their decision process, because I've met some leaders who
are very much like, you're never going to get one
hundred percent of them right, just go fast, keep going.
And then I've met other leaders who are a little
bit more like, I want to sit in deliberation.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Where do you kind of fall.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
On that spectrum in terms of, you know, the buck
does stop with you, right?
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So how do you approach making hard decisions?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think I think it depends on what the decision
is and how and what the decision is and sort
of the gravity of the decision. I had a boss
once and he gave me a piece of advice. He said, Lisa,
never make a decision till you have to, because people
might push you to make a decision because it's going
to help them feel better because they know which direction
(18:37):
you want to go in. But if you really don't
have to, don't feel the pressure of that. If you
know that you still have a little more time to
make that decision, because in the period of time between
when someone wants the decision and when you actually have
to make it, you might gather more input and more
information and more insight that ultimately allows you to make
(18:58):
a much better decision. And I absolutely have learned that
the hard way, and it's really true. So that's one
thing that's sort of how I determine, you know, on
March twelfth, twenty twenty, we had to make some pretty
fast decisions. And when I'm in that mode, I become
much more sort of directive, and we'll grab the team
(19:22):
and say, you know, we've got to get something out
into the marketplace as soon as possible, because people are
relying on the ad Council to figure out how do
I keep my family safe in the midst of a
global pandemic that we don't even understand, So there's not
a lot of time for deliberating at that point. So
I think we sort of get the best information and
we make decisions and we move really fast. In fact,
(19:43):
at that period of time, we had stuff out into
the marketplace again with the support of our partners and
our team, in five days, which was unheard of for us.
But there are other decisions where I, you know, if
we have a longer lead time, or I think there's
something we you have to do to ultimately make a
change in the organization that's going to be a big
(20:04):
change that could be difficult. I become more deliberate, and
I become more talking to a lot of people and
triangulating the information and seeking support and testing ideas before
we ultimately make a decision. So again I really think
it depends. No, that's great, Amani, I want to take
(20:26):
it back. I also want to take it uptown to
your apartment in Harlem. Like as we talked about change,
what gave you kind of that confidence, that courage, that
faith to walk away from what felt very secure. I'm
sure your precipitous, like your rise to success at NBC Universal,
(20:51):
now you're stepping out into kind of an entrepreneurism space.
You're building it your own like, I just want to
know your mind, said then, and what gave you that
that confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It's so interesting because I did not want to be
an entrepreneur. I wanted to work in corporate my entire life.
I wanted to be the corner office at corporate. And
I loved my job at NBCUniversal. I had a great job.
I was hanging out with housewives, I had Andy Cohen
on speed dial, Like, it doesn't get better than this.
(21:25):
And then we launched BRAVOCN, which was super exciting, and
so Creative Collective was growing organically.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
It was something that we kind of put into the.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Ground and we'd water it every few days and we'd
get back to our corporate jobs. Me and all of
my friends had corporate jobs, and so I remember kind
of looking over one day and being like when did
she get that big?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And I had a really supportive boss, which I think
is so important, Jen Geyser, who along the way was like,
this is incredible that you're building this, and you're building
this because the insights I was getting from Creative Collective
was allowing me to be a better employee because I
was building community at NBC. And so when we finally
got to the precipice of its time. It was kind
(22:11):
of like.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
The perfect storm.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So what I mean by that is I was staring
at this life that I had always really wanted. I
was vice president at NBC Universal, and I was really
able to bring myself to work and to bring ideas
and to charter and new talent. But the Creative Collective
had gotten to an undeniable growth spurt. We had over
(22:36):
two hundred thousand members and culture Con had gone on
a three city tour and I was doing all of
that with a full time job. So as culture Con
was growing, I was promoted at NBC six times because
I never wanted anyone to say her work is slipping
or things are falling between the cracks, and so at
(22:57):
the end I had almost two full time jobs. And
what started to happen was I always imagined that Culture
Con it would be a big loud bang when it
was time to leave, but actually it was a quiet whisper.
But it was very consistent, and I'll never forget kind
(23:19):
of like sitting in my office and I had met
some friends for drinks after work, and as I'm sitting
there and we're talking about what's really exciting us culture
con was the first thing I wanted to talk about,
and I resisted that for a very long time because,
to your point, I had a very secure thing going on,
(23:40):
and finally I ended up. You know, one of my
mentors said, I think you should do some odyssey planning,
and I had never heard of that technique before. But basically,
you create three versions of your life. The first version
is if nothing changes and you continue on this path,
what does that look like? The second version of your
(24:01):
life is this kind of quiet whisper that you're hearing.
What if you went after that? What does that look like?
And then the third life that you kind of imagine
is like a wild card, like if you could do
anything in the world, And that shows you kind of
what your desires are. And when I looked at my
odyssey planning, I said, well, I know what my life
(24:21):
looks like. If I spend the rest of my life
at NBC, I'll be happy, I will felt accomplished, but
I might.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Feel a little bit of what if.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so when I looked at that and I said,
you know, what's the worst that could happen. I could
always come back home, And yes, that's a little bit
you know, can you. But I felt like I could
always come back home. I just thought, let me, let
me try, and so that was kind of my methodology
(24:51):
of leaving. I don't know if I can say I
was fearless. I definitely felt the fear. I just pushed
through it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Amazing. Can I just say that's another thing we have
in common, Amani, because I was at seventeen years at
Verizon and I didn't do that thing with the three whatever.
What did you call that odyssey planning?
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Odyssey planning?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, right, so I did sort of. I did that
without actually formally doing it. And I decided to leave
to launch my own company in women's sports because at
the time, women's sports was becoming really hot and the
WNBA had just started, and you know, I had a
passion for sports obviously, and I sort of made the
(25:37):
same calculation that you did. How cool is that?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
And Lisa, I also did sports.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
So we are basically living cosmic identical lives.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
We are because you've become an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, now the audience wants to know, Lisa and Moni,
what what sports did you play?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
My goodness, So I ran track, I did hurdles and sprints.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Lisa, what about you?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I played basketball and lacrosse.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Nice, Okay, there is something about sports that women in
sports particularly, that gives you a sense of strength and
those difficult days in the workplace. And I'm sure being
an entrepreneur, oh for sure, definitely.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
And I think there is a stat. I don't know
it off the top of my head, but it's the
number of female CEOs in the country. The percentage is
upwards of like ninety percent all played sports. I don't
doubt that we're going to go with that statis fact.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, yeah, because I think athletes know and I'm you know,
I heard this quote and I'm like, it's such an
athletic mindset of like, you don't stop when the job
gets hard.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
You stop when the job gets done.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And that ability to not stop is really what makes
you a leader because there are so many times you're
like I just don't want to, but you are literally
built as an athlete to finish the game, finish the practice.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And yeah, I think you take that to work.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Plus I learned so many life lessons that apply to
business from sports. Right. You learn about preparation, you learn
about teamwork, you learn about sportsmanship, you learn. I mean
you learn about leadership. I mean it's there's so many
life lessons from sports that apply in life generally and
specifically in business.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Did sports prepare you for to take on two jobs
at once? That that as you were describing it, I
was getting tired. I also do want to shout out
to supportive bosses who see and nurture excellence in people
that deserves celebration. So thanks for calling out your boss, Lisa.
There is a chemistry between you two that we didn't
(27:45):
even know bringing you together. But Amani was talking about
that pivot from corporate safe to the unknown of entrepreneurism.
You kind of did a similar pivot from this corporate
like the Viacoms and the hill Holidays of the world
and me you pivoted to the nonprofit space. So give
(28:07):
me a little bit of making that transition, like what
it took and what it unlocked for you.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I think when I left Corporate America early days
to start Women's Sports Network, the thing that motivated me
to do that was this. I think I had some
entrepreneurial genes that I needed to flex and you know,
muscles I needed to flex. But I also it's the
first time I married the work I loved to do
of marketing with a passion I had of sports, and
(28:37):
once I tasted that, there was no going back. I
was so energized and motivated because I felt like there
was a higher calling for the work. It wasn't just marketing,
you know, it was it was elevating women and girls
and how amazing athletes women and girls are that at
(28:59):
the time, especially in ninety nine and two thousand or
we're just starting to capture some attention. And so, you know,
all of my subsequent roles, whether it was there or
at Hill Holiday, I ended up in the new business
area and I would work on you know, new business
for large nonprofits who were doing work that I cared about.
(29:20):
So I once I tasted that combination of passion and purpose,
I couldn't. I couldn't sort of wean myself off of
that drug. So when I left to go to Viacom
to launch Logo, another issue I cared deeply, deeply about.
You know, you know, we built a business, no doubt,
this was not a charity, but there was a higher calling.
(29:44):
If we could elevate in culture, you know, and put
create television and people could see themselves on television. It
would be so validating for a community that never really
saw that before. That was the reason that I got.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Up every day.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And so when I got the call about the AD Council,
I thought, oh my god, like, here's an opportunity to
have an even bigger platform to work on not a
single issue, but many issues that I care about. And
so I just I literally, I've said this before, I
felt like lightning went through my body when I got
(30:25):
the call for that. Whether I wanted to be considered
and I just knew in that moment I had to
have the job. And then I went and tried to
do everything I could to get the job. And again
it was just all about passion, purpose impact.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It is not to diminish how hard some of your
days are, but it is the dream job.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
It is. I agree, thank you, I totally agree. I
feel incredibly grateful to have it. And you know, it's interesting.
It also for me comes with an incredible sense of
responsibility because you know, we only get to do these
things for a certain period of time, and so you know,
(31:11):
it's sort of like, how can I what can I
do in the time that I have the privilege of
leading this organization to sort of continue the great work
and to make it better for the next person who
will take it from me. You know, it just feels
like one of those kinds of roles.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
So well said, and you talked about the passionate purpose
higher calling. Our industry calls it the RTB, the reason
to Believe, Amani. I'm gonna go to you. As an industry,
I would say, including like the wider media industry, our
ecosystem is obsessed with KPIs measurement and growth another buzzword
(31:49):
of the year. And Mark Pritchard at P ANDNG often
and also inducted into Hall of Fame. He talks about
media as a force for good and growth. And my
question is why is good forever and always good for
growth and inextricably linked.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yes, I think you know.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
For me, when I think about media, I really think
about the power of storytelling, and I think about the
importance of who gets to tell stories, whose stories are included.
And I think what we're seeing is to your point,
good stories drives growth. You don't have to choose between
business growth and good storytelling. And so at the creative collective,
(32:31):
you know, we recently just launched you mentioned culture con
Studios for that very reason was we wanted to really
diversify who gets to tell stories, and the barrier for
entry has never been lower, and so there are opportunities
to learn about so many different experiences across the world,
and also to expand what it means to be creative.
(32:52):
I think there's been a lot of really kind of
small boxes, and now we're seeing that chefs have incredible stories,
and Helpton's have incredible stories. We're watching Severance and they're
just sitting at a nine to five and we can't
get enough of it. And I think that that shows
that there are so many mediums for storytelling. And so
when we think about goodness and what resonates, I think
(33:16):
that we have found that people want to see themselves
and they want to imagine themselves in different stories. And
it's been exciting to see how media continues to expand.
One of my kind of Cinderella stories that I've been
loving lately is Doci and her incredible rise right now,
and I think one of the reasons that she's trending
(33:37):
everywhere is she goes on any stage and she is herself,
and that's good storytelling and it is great for business.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Thank you for mentioning severance. Of course, she just didn't
want to get through this pod without that. I could
ask you the same thing, Lisa. I think you intrinsically understand,
maybe throughout your intent higher career, the power of good
and growth for businesses, for brands, for agencies.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I think it's you know I Ultimately it's I think
Amana you said it like we are trying to connect
with audiences, We're trying to connect with consumers. People I
think inherently want to connect with authentic, real stories about
real people, and when they do, there's this connection that
(34:31):
sort of builds trust, and that builds brands, and that
builds all that follows. I really believe that, and I
think what we're doing, whether it's you know, what Amani's doing,
or what I did with Women's Sports or the AD
Council or even at Logo, we're telling stories that haven't
often been told, and so you begin to expand the
(34:54):
imagination of people, and those people start to think, wow,
you know there is a place for me too, and
I want to be affiliated with a company or a
brand who wants to reflect.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
That Amani for somebody who's accomplished a lot at a
young age. What excites you, what's on the precipice.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I have really been in my student era, which is
kind of freeing because I think, you know, sometimes you
can say, wow, I've done so much, what is left?
And I'm like, everything is left and so for so
for me, I'm kind of going back to spaces that
I'm really curious about. One of those is a project
(35:42):
I'm working on called Creative Residency, and it is for
ambitious people who don't know how to incorporate rest into
their creative process. And so that's something that's going to
be launching very soon. But you know, as Lisa was talking,
you know, being an athlete, we learn about preparation, and
(36:03):
I think somewhere along the line of just the everyday demand,
we sometimes scrap the preparation and the resting in our
work lives.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
And I have found that when I.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Am not burnt out, I am more creative, I am
just a better collaborator. And so I think I'm going
to be putting a lot of resources behind tools for
ambitious people who need to rest.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
That is my latest, my latest venture. Arianna Huffington, are
you listening?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Can I be part of the test group for this
new idea, because I'm all in on.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
That absolutely, So we're gonna offline. I'm going to see
what you think exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Please, Lisa, you are accepting and your being inducted into
the Advertising Hall of Fame, which is a lifetime achievement award,
but there is a whole lifetime after. So I would
love to know also what's on the precipice for you,
what's exciting, what's you know giving you anxiety and keeping
(37:11):
you up?
Speaker 4 (37:12):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
How much time do you have, Christina, We don't have
enough time to talk about that, you know. I I
said it at the top, and I will say it again.
I continue to look, there's no shortage of issues for
us to work on right in our country. We're doing
some great work on a couple of areas that I think,
you know, I am fully committed to continuing. You know,
(37:35):
whether it's mental health an issue that is you know,
I don't know anyone that's been untouched by mental health challenges,
and it's an issue that has so much stigma associated
with it that people both don't want to acknowledge that
they're struggling, and then therefore they don't get the help
that they need. So I'm fully you know, I'm very
enthusiastic about that. Look, I think we live in an
(37:59):
environment that has become very divided. I think, you know,
the AD Council has always found a way to be
non partisan and talk about issues that allow both sides
to hear and then perhaps with understanding and listening, we
could move on it. So, you know, we just launched
a campaign two weeks ago now on gun violence prevention
(38:23):
that we call agree to Agree. And the one staggering
fact to me is that firearm deaths and injuries are
the number one killer of our kids in this country.
I don't think anybody agrees that that's okay, And so
you know, I think the term we have to agree
to disagree that always sort of ends a conversation. But
(38:46):
if you know, the way we launch this campaign is like, no,
we agree to agree, which can extend a conversation, and
that is sort of another major commitment we have at
the organization, so sort of in the most immediate like
that work is so it's like literally like both of
those issues and the work we're doing will be life saving.
I'm fully committed to that, and you know, I think,
(39:08):
as Amani said, I'm really I do. I think as
part of the work we're doing with mental health, Like
I think there's a reason why they tell you to,
you know, put your oxygen mask on first. You know,
I really feel like for myself in times of the
most stress and most of the times when i'm you know,
can't sleep at night because there's so much, you know,
(39:29):
on my mind, I really want to take the heart
and I'm trying to take the heart that I have
to also have self care and to spend time making
sure that I'm taking care of myself. And because if
I'm not taking care of myself, I'm not good to
my team, I'm not good to my family, and I'm
not good to me. And so that's that's got to
(39:49):
that is really more and more an important priority.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well that is a whole other podcast that we could
talk about, So we're gonna we're going to have to
go on Amani's podcast. But I do want to thank
you both for putting people before profit and making community
your calling. There are some things that we will carry
forward that you reminded us. We will keep our knees bent,
(40:13):
we will stay ready. Thanks Dad, We'll never make a
decision until we have to, giving it ourselves time to
really think. We will plan using the odyssey method, and
we won't stop when the job gets hard. We'll stop
when the job is done. So thank you both for
the deep wisdom, your shared connection and the work that
(40:36):
you've chosen to make your work.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I'm Christina Pile. Thank you for listening. We'll be back
with another episode before you know it. And for more
information on the American Advertising Federation, go to AAF dot org.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Also to extend the bipl
Hello, Welcome to season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
In this series, we explore the future of the advertising
industry through never before heard conversations between those who created
it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
I'm your host Tim Natividad and I'm your host Christina Pile.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
And with that, let's meet the legends.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Welcome, we are back with another incredible episode of our podcast.
We have two dynamic leaders as our guests today. I
have been eagerly awaiting this one. I'm not gonna lie.
Our first guest honestly doesn't need much of an introduction,
(00:55):
but I'll give you one anyway. Her name alone is
synonymous with super hero in a world of advertising and beyond.
In her role as President and CEO of the AD
Council are Superhero aka Lisa Sherman leads in all aspects
of the national nonprofit that is a lynchpin of doing
good in advertising. The AD Council has been an institution
(01:16):
that is aimed at educating, uplifting and uniting the world
by telling stories through advertising Lisa spearheads the work of
the AD Council, standing at the intersection of media marketing, tech, entertainment, advertising,
and philanthropy to build creative social impact campaigns that drive
change globally. US late comers who know Lisa from her
(01:37):
superhero days at AD Council, we all know that you
don't get inducted into the Advertising Hall of Fame for
just one life and only one chapter. There are so
many Lisa Sherman chapters. Lisa has more than thirty five
years of advertising experience, working for companies like Viacom. She
launched and led the Logo TV, the first network Forriology
(01:59):
bach Qia plus audiences. She spent time of Verizon and
Hill Holiday and somewhere along the way, she also co
founded the Women's Sports Network marketing company. If you could
only know then what we know now about the power
of women's sports, maybe you knew all along. Lisa's important
work continues, but we're looking forward to taking a brief
(02:21):
pause to induct her into the Advertising Hall of Fame
next month. Congrats Lisa, Thanks Christina, thanks and welcome to
the pod.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Happy to be here. Do whatever you tell me.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
We're very excited to celebrate you. But while you're probably
delivering your acceptance speech, I'll be delivering a baby, So
I'm gonna miss that.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So excited for you, Lisa, New York is your home
through and through. But where are you calling in? Where
are you dialing? And where are you joining us from?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I am calling from my home out in Long Island,
where I should be building an arc because it's been
raining for twenty four hours and my poor her legs crossed,
she doesn't like the rain.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Our next guest, and speaking of building, transforming and growing organizations,
is none other than Amani Ellis, the founder and CEO
of the Creative Collective and Culture con The Creative Collective
is a community dedicated to providing educational resources and community
for creative professionals. It has become the largest community of
(03:25):
creatives of color, with the annual three day Culture Khan
attracting more than ten thousand attendees in New York City
just outstanding. Amani's journey started in PR and communications in
the entertainment industry, beginning with handling talent at Viacom and
Universal Music Group and landing a vice president of communications
(03:45):
and unscripted Entertainment at NBCUniversal role at a very young age,
mind you, and speaking of handling talent, Amani began working
at NBC Universal, starting as a page and then eventually
becoming Andy Cohen's publicist, managing his press appearances, and she
has had to deal with a housewife or two. Ammani
(04:08):
always had a part of her that wanted to do
more for her own community, and the culture Con conference
was born from this feeling and has been featured in Vogue,
The Hollywood Reporter, Washington Post workshops that dive into niche
industry topics from building well to beating burnout and transcending
the creative block. The conference attracts luminaries like if You've
(04:30):
heard of Him, Will Smith's Ray, c L's Ross, John Legend,
Issa Ray, to name a few, and in August, Amani
launched her latest project to keep the conversation going year round.
It's the culture Con Uncut podcast. Perhaps we will get
the invite to join. Congrats to you, Amani, so powerful
to see you last November walk across that stage, deliver
(04:51):
the most impactful words and you were the best dressed.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
If I have to.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Say, Christita, my gosh, can I only have introductions from
you moving forward. It's so great to be here, and Lisa,
I am such an admirer of your work on what
you've built.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
So yeah, just so happy to be here.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
I feel the same like I said, I feel like
our paths we sort of followed each other around between
Viacom and working with NBC Universal and all these things,
and fantastic, thrilled to be doing this together.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Well, thank you to the AF because today we get
to send conversation, explore your careers, your setbacks, your hopes.
Starting with you, Lisa. You recently celebrated ten years at
the AD Council, which puts you around twenty fifteen. A
couple things going on at that time. Snapchat, filters introduced,
selfie sticks were wildly popular, Apple watches, Apple music, avocado toast,
(05:46):
the millennials spend all their money and won't be able
to retire. On Hamilton, debuted on Broadway, and the finale
of mad Men. How nice as you step into this role,
but take us back there, take us back to some
of your favorite experiences, some of the standout campaigns, and
what you feel uniquely proud of.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Well, first of all, it's hard for me to imagine
and actually believe that it's been ten years. I still
sort of walk around feeling like the new girl, which
is so crazy. But yeah, twenty fifteen was an interesting time,
lots of new technologies coming into the space. We happened
to launch our Love Has No Labels campaign shortly after
(06:28):
I joined, and if you remember that campaign, which was
the Skeletons, focusing on diversity, inclusion and belonging. It was
the first time I'd ever experienced anything going viral. It
was super cool. Like I just kept refreshing my keyboard
and like the numbers just kept going up and up
and up and up. Because that piece of film just
(06:51):
captured everyone's imagination and I think it really sort of
set the AD Council on the trajector that I think
we've been on, you know, sort of reaching broadly in
culture in a way that people started to say wow.
So that was a great way to start. And you know,
(07:12):
lots of issues we work on, many of them. I'm
proud of all of them. And I will tell you
that the thing that just brings me such joy and
hope in the world is watching our industry come together
to do good. And that's really what the organization is
all about how do we use the power of our
(07:32):
industry to change hearts and minds on really important social
issues that we're challenged with.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I mean, love has no labels. That was the work
you did with Urga, Yeah, yeah, it has. It was
so timely and ahead of its time. And I feel
the same way about your Stars program, where you guys
have brought a lot of attention through the ad counsel
to talent that might be skilled in a different way,
(08:01):
and it could not fall at a better time where
universities and we're rethinking who qualifies for industry. I just
have to say, like you presided over some of the
best work of our time.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Well, you know, this work is a team sport, and
I get to represent it publicly, but honestly, I have
the most extraordinary team, and we work with the leaders
of our industry who are all in on helping us.
So I feel like I've got the best job on
the planet, quite honestly.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
And you're not done yet exactly, Amani. I could say
the same thing for you. It just kind of organically.
You're approaching nine years of culture con Has it been
nine years?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think we're shy of that we're at eight years,
but goodness, who's counting it's been a while.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Oh okay, I'm you know, putting it out there. We're
going to be at the ten year anniversary celebrating. Could
you give me some of the same thoughts about some
of the work. E've been so proud of some of
the moments that just transcend over the last eight years
of developing this community and pulling off culture gone every year.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it really has been the
honor of a lifetime to be able to build these
spaces that we hadn't always seen. And I think, similar
to what Lisa just said, it's the team behind it
that is some of the most magical experience. I did
what they say you should never do. I worked with
my friends, and so I invited ten of my friends
(09:36):
to my living room and I said, I think we
deserve a place like this, and we all were a
little bit naive. And I think that naivete was one
of our superpowers because we had no idea that a
one hundred person event would scale to a ten thousand
person event. And I think part of the beauty was
(09:56):
we had no idea and so as we've.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Grown the collective.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Over the years, it's been so incredible to ask our
community what do you want to learn, what do you
want to see, and then to put that on the stage.
One of my favorite moments had to be, you know,
when Tracey Ellis Ross came and she's speaking on the
Culture con stage about being self conscious about her hair
growing up. And I'm looking at Tracey Yellis Ross, like
(10:23):
you have the most beautiful hair I've ever seen. But
the humanity of her saying I didn't always feel that way,
I think really encouraged you know, creatives in the audience
to say that sometimes the thing that you're the most
self conscious about is your superpower. That's what makes you
really special. And so even as I've kind of navigated
(10:44):
scaling this conference, I think one of the things we
always want to keep at the forefront is that we
wanted to always feel like that living room conversation. So
we wanted to feel like we're scaling intimacy and that
everyone is really welcome.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Have you been able to stay true to that north star?
Because it does. As you scale up, you start to
add more people, you start to add more sponsors and supporters,
more brands, and you have an incredible roster brands supporting
culture Con. But have you been able to stay true
to that north Star?
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think so much of culture Con is the experiential design,
and that's what I'm the most proudest of. Is people
will come up and say I met so many friends
or people are so nice here, and that shouldn't be
a surprise that people are nice at an event, but
it is built by design that culture Con feels like
a homecoming and so fun fact about me is I'm
(11:42):
an introvert, so it does not escape me that building
a space of ten thousand people is a little ironic.
But because I'm an introvert, I think about what would
it feel like to come to an event like this
by myself, or what would it feel like to come
to an event like this if I didn't live in
New York, And then our team reverse engineers that feeling.
(12:03):
So when we plan culture Con, we're planning it for
the person who comes alone. We're planning it for the
person who comes with all their friends. We're planning it
for Tracy Ellis Ross. So that everyone kind of has
to choose your own adventure experience.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
I have to say, it's so interesting that you're an introvert,
and I love that you are thinking about this in
the context of someone who is an introvert. I actually
tend to be more introverted also, and I look this
up and it is a thing. It's called an extroverted introvert.
So I can be out front and I bet you
you're an extroverted introvert to Amani if you look it up,
(12:38):
the definition will describe me perfectly, and I would imagine
it would to you too. It's like, you can do
that and you do get some energy from it, but
then you hit the wall and you gotta go. You
gotta go, you gotta go recharge your batteries.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Lisa, you are my people, and when you hit the wall,
there is no like it.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Times up, we've done it exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But yeah, absolutely, I think I am an extroverted introvert,
Like I can plus it up, but it's not my nature.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Exactly, which I think is really great. It just shows
that we can be publicly facing people and sometimes our
roles require that. But that don't don't sort of just
assume that that means that we're extroverted.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Right, absolutely, absolutely, I think introverts shall inherit the earth.
I think it's it is definitely time for the quiet
power and the reflection that introverts bring.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
So bring it on.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
At least I want to go back to you and
talk about change because we are perhaps living at the
pace of change every day, and it feels like twenty
twenty four and twenty twenty five like the like Pantone
color of the year, Like it feels like the word
change is the word of the year. From I would
(13:58):
say emerging technology, to encroaching technology within our industry, to consolidation,
hybrid work. I could go on and we forget this
industry has undergone tremendous change over three decades. So how
have you navigated the many changes in this advertising and
(14:18):
marketing landscape? And no, that's a big question.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, well, you know the first thing that came to
my mind when you asked the question. I played sports
when I was a kid, and I played in high
school and I played in college, and my dad would
always say to me when he would come to my games,
He's like, Lisa, keep your knees bent, because when you
(14:42):
keep your knees bent, you sort of have a lower
center of gravity, and it gives you the opportunity to
pivot or to turn, or to not get knocked off
of your feet, you know, when something happens, and so
sort of metaphorically, I I think the way I navigate
change is trying to keep my knees bent because I
(15:04):
think the only thing we know is constant is change.
I mean, and I think inherently as humans, change is
hard because we get very set into our ways and
our behaviors. But I think a couple things. One, I
think resisting change is a fool's errand because it's happening,
and I think if we can just figure out ways
(15:26):
to embrace it. And sometimes what I do is I mean,
I'm a big question asker. You know, if I don't
understand something, I ask a lot of questions. I seek
a lot of advice, and I seek a lot of
input to really try and understand what these potential changes
mean to our business, to our teams. And I think
(15:47):
that ability to stay curious, know what I don't know,
and not be afraid to ask the questions has helped
me sort of navigate the changes that we've had to
make in almost every area of what we do every
single day. I think the biggest change, I mean, you
listed a ton of them. I'll just never forget the
(16:10):
change we all had to make On March twelfth of
twenty twenty, when the world completely shut down talk about change.
That was like a like an O shit moment. You know, sorry,
you know, we just went home and we never left.
We thought we were leaving for two weeks, and we
were gone for quite some time, and it was really
I think the other thing about change is surrounding yourself
(16:32):
with the teams that sort of you know, I'm a
very team person. I'm very team oriented because I did
play sports and I've seen the power of it, like
really relying on those that core group that can help
you navigate. And so you know, when I first got
to the AD Council, we were mostly distributing all of
our work through more traditional media and that as you
(16:55):
just mentioned Snapchat. You know, Facebook had launched maybe a
few years before, and I felt like we really needed
to understand how we take the work that we do
and partner up with these new platforms that we're going
to have this incredible reach in a very different way
than our traditional media. I can list ten things that
(17:16):
you know over the last ten years, and I think
I approach it all. I try and approach it all
the very same way with bent nees. With bent knees, yeah,
keep your knees bed. Well, we have to know right now,
right now, where you are. You know, eight months in
you probably want to keep your knees bend. People actually
(17:38):
actually yes, people keep telling me good luck with the
next eighteen years. I'm like, oh my god, yeah, well,
you're really going to have to keep your knees bent.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
I'm curious, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I always love asking, you know, leaders who I admire
about their decision process, because I've met some leaders who
are very much like, you're never going to get one
hundred percent of them right, just go fast, keep going.
And then I've met other leaders who are a little
bit more like, I want to sit in deliberation.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Where do you kind of fall.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
On that spectrum in terms of, you know, the buck
does stop with you, right?
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So how do you approach making hard decisions?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You know?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think I think it depends on what the decision
is and how and what the decision is and sort
of the gravity of the decision. I had a boss
once and he gave me a piece of advice. He said, Lisa,
never make a decision till you have to, because people
might push you to make a decision because it's going
to help them feel better because they know which direction
(18:37):
you want to go in. But if you really don't
have to, don't feel the pressure of that. If you
know that you still have a little more time to
make that decision, because in the period of time between
when someone wants the decision and when you actually have
to make it, you might gather more input and more
information and more insight that ultimately allows you to make
(18:58):
a much better decision. And I absolutely have learned that
the hard way, and it's really true. So that's one
thing that's sort of how I determine, you know, on
March twelfth, twenty twenty, we had to make some pretty
fast decisions. And when I'm in that mode, I become
much more sort of directive, and we'll grab the team
(19:22):
and say, you know, we've got to get something out
into the marketplace as soon as possible, because people are
relying on the ad Council to figure out how do
I keep my family safe in the midst of a
global pandemic that we don't even understand, So there's not
a lot of time for deliberating at that point. So
I think we sort of get the best information and
we make decisions and we move really fast. In fact,
(19:43):
at that period of time, we had stuff out into
the marketplace again with the support of our partners and
our team, in five days, which was unheard of for us.
But there are other decisions where I, you know, if
we have a longer lead time, or I think there's
something we you have to do to ultimately make a
change in the organization that's going to be a big
(20:04):
change that could be difficult. I become more deliberate, and
I become more talking to a lot of people and
triangulating the information and seeking support and testing ideas before
we ultimately make a decision. So again I really think
it depends. No, that's great, Amani, I want to take
(20:26):
it back. I also want to take it uptown to
your apartment in Harlem. Like as we talked about change,
what gave you kind of that confidence, that courage, that
faith to walk away from what felt very secure. I'm
sure your precipitous, like your rise to success at NBC Universal,
(20:51):
now you're stepping out into kind of an entrepreneurism space.
You're building it your own like, I just want to
know your mind, said then, and what gave you that
that confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It's so interesting because I did not want to be
an entrepreneur. I wanted to work in corporate my entire life.
I wanted to be the corner office at corporate. And
I loved my job at NBCUniversal. I had a great job.
I was hanging out with housewives, I had Andy Cohen
on speed dial, Like, it doesn't get better than this.
(21:25):
And then we launched BRAVOCN, which was super exciting, and
so Creative Collective was growing organically.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
It was something that we kind of put into the.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Ground and we'd water it every few days and we'd
get back to our corporate jobs. Me and all of
my friends had corporate jobs, and so I remember kind
of looking over one day and being like when did
she get that big?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (21:49):
And I had a really supportive boss, which I think
is so important, Jen Geyser, who along the way was like,
this is incredible that you're building this, and you're building
this because the insights I was getting from Creative Collective
was allowing me to be a better employee because I
was building community at NBC. And so when we finally
got to the precipice of its time. It was kind
(22:11):
of like.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
The perfect storm.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
So what I mean by that is I was staring
at this life that I had always really wanted. I
was vice president at NBC Universal, and I was really
able to bring myself to work and to bring ideas
and to charter and new talent. But the Creative Collective
had gotten to an undeniable growth spurt. We had over
(22:36):
two hundred thousand members and culture Con had gone on
a three city tour and I was doing all of
that with a full time job. So as culture Con
was growing, I was promoted at NBC six times because
I never wanted anyone to say her work is slipping
or things are falling between the cracks, and so at
(22:57):
the end I had almost two full time jobs. And
what started to happen was I always imagined that Culture
Con it would be a big loud bang when it
was time to leave, but actually it was a quiet whisper.
But it was very consistent, and I'll never forget kind
(23:19):
of like sitting in my office and I had met
some friends for drinks after work, and as I'm sitting
there and we're talking about what's really exciting us culture
con was the first thing I wanted to talk about,
and I resisted that for a very long time because,
to your point, I had a very secure thing going on,
(23:40):
and finally I ended up. You know, one of my
mentors said, I think you should do some odyssey planning,
and I had never heard of that technique before. But basically,
you create three versions of your life. The first version
is if nothing changes and you continue on this path,
what does that look like? The second version of your
(24:01):
life is this kind of quiet whisper that you're hearing.
What if you went after that? What does that look like?
And then the third life that you kind of imagine
is like a wild card, like if you could do
anything in the world, And that shows you kind of
what your desires are. And when I looked at my
odyssey planning, I said, well, I know what my life
(24:21):
looks like. If I spend the rest of my life
at NBC, I'll be happy, I will felt accomplished, but
I might.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Feel a little bit of what if.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
And so when I looked at that and I said,
you know, what's the worst that could happen. I could
always come back home, And yes, that's a little bit
you know, can you. But I felt like I could
always come back home. I just thought, let me, let
me try, and so that was kind of my methodology
(24:51):
of leaving. I don't know if I can say I
was fearless. I definitely felt the fear. I just pushed
through it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Amazing. Can I just say that's another thing we have
in common, Amani, because I was at seventeen years at
Verizon and I didn't do that thing with the three whatever.
What did you call that odyssey planning?
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Odyssey planning?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, right, so I did sort of. I did that
without actually formally doing it. And I decided to leave
to launch my own company in women's sports because at
the time, women's sports was becoming really hot and the
WNBA had just started, and you know, I had a
passion for sports obviously, and I sort of made the
(25:37):
same calculation that you did. How cool is that?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
And Lisa, I also did sports.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
So we are basically living cosmic identical lives.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
We are because you've become an entrepreneur.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, now the audience wants to know, Lisa and Moni,
what what sports did you play?
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
My goodness, So I ran track, I did hurdles and sprints.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Lisa, what about you?
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I played basketball and lacrosse.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Nice, Okay, there is something about sports that women in
sports particularly, that gives you a sense of strength and
those difficult days in the workplace. And I'm sure being
an entrepreneur, oh for sure, definitely.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
And I think there is a stat. I don't know
it off the top of my head, but it's the
number of female CEOs in the country. The percentage is
upwards of like ninety percent all played sports. I don't
doubt that we're going to go with that statis fact.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, yeah, because I think athletes know and I'm you know,
I heard this quote and I'm like, it's such an
athletic mindset of like, you don't stop when the job
gets hard.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
You stop when the job gets done.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And that ability to not stop is really what makes
you a leader because there are so many times you're
like I just don't want to, but you are literally
built as an athlete to finish the game, finish the practice.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
And yeah, I think you take that to work.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
Plus I learned so many life lessons that apply to
business from sports. Right. You learn about preparation, you learn
about teamwork, you learn about sportsmanship, you learn. I mean
you learn about leadership. I mean it's there's so many
life lessons from sports that apply in life generally and
specifically in business.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Did sports prepare you for to take on two jobs
at once? That that as you were describing it, I
was getting tired. I also do want to shout out
to supportive bosses who see and nurture excellence in people
that deserves celebration. So thanks for calling out your boss, Lisa.
There is a chemistry between you two that we didn't
(27:45):
even know bringing you together. But Amani was talking about
that pivot from corporate safe to the unknown of entrepreneurism.
You kind of did a similar pivot from this corporate
like the Viacoms and the hill Holidays of the world
and me you pivoted to the nonprofit space. So give
(28:07):
me a little bit of making that transition, like what
it took and what it unlocked for you.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So I think when I left Corporate America early days
to start Women's Sports Network, the thing that motivated me
to do that was this. I think I had some
entrepreneurial genes that I needed to flex and you know,
muscles I needed to flex. But I also it's the
first time I married the work I loved to do
of marketing with a passion I had of sports, and
(28:37):
once I tasted that, there was no going back. I
was so energized and motivated because I felt like there
was a higher calling for the work. It wasn't just marketing,
you know, it was it was elevating women and girls
and how amazing athletes women and girls are that at
(28:59):
the time, especially in ninety nine and two thousand or
we're just starting to capture some attention. And so, you know,
all of my subsequent roles, whether it was there or
at Hill Holiday, I ended up in the new business
area and I would work on you know, new business
for large nonprofits who were doing work that I cared about.
(29:20):
So I once I tasted that combination of passion and purpose,
I couldn't. I couldn't sort of wean myself off of
that drug. So when I left to go to Viacom
to launch Logo, another issue I cared deeply, deeply about.
You know, you know, we built a business, no doubt,
this was not a charity, but there was a higher calling.
(29:44):
If we could elevate in culture, you know, and put
create television and people could see themselves on television. It
would be so validating for a community that never really
saw that before. That was the reason that I got.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Up every day.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And so when I got the call about the AD Council,
I thought, oh my god, like, here's an opportunity to
have an even bigger platform to work on not a
single issue, but many issues that I care about. And
so I just I literally, I've said this before, I
felt like lightning went through my body when I got
(30:25):
the call for that. Whether I wanted to be considered
and I just knew in that moment I had to
have the job. And then I went and tried to
do everything I could to get the job. And again
it was just all about passion, purpose impact.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
It is not to diminish how hard some of your
days are, but it is the dream job.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
It is. I agree, thank you, I totally agree. I
feel incredibly grateful to have it. And you know, it's interesting.
It also for me comes with an incredible sense of
responsibility because you know, we only get to do these
things for a certain period of time, and so you know,
(31:11):
it's sort of like, how can I what can I
do in the time that I have the privilege of
leading this organization to sort of continue the great work
and to make it better for the next person who
will take it from me. You know, it just feels
like one of those kinds of roles.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
So well said, and you talked about the passionate purpose
higher calling. Our industry calls it the RTB, the reason
to Believe, Amani. I'm gonna go to you. As an industry,
I would say, including like the wider media industry, our
ecosystem is obsessed with KPIs measurement and growth another buzzword
(31:49):
of the year. And Mark Pritchard at P ANDNG often
and also inducted into Hall of Fame. He talks about
media as a force for good and growth. And my
question is why is good forever and always good for
growth and inextricably linked.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yes, I think you know.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
For me, when I think about media, I really think
about the power of storytelling, and I think about the
importance of who gets to tell stories, whose stories are included.
And I think what we're seeing is to your point,
good stories drives growth. You don't have to choose between
business growth and good storytelling. And so at the creative collective,
(32:31):
you know, we recently just launched you mentioned culture con
Studios for that very reason was we wanted to really
diversify who gets to tell stories, and the barrier for
entry has never been lower, and so there are opportunities
to learn about so many different experiences across the world,
and also to expand what it means to be creative.
(32:52):
I think there's been a lot of really kind of
small boxes, and now we're seeing that chefs have incredible stories,
and Helpton's have incredible stories. We're watching Severance and they're
just sitting at a nine to five and we can't
get enough of it. And I think that that shows
that there are so many mediums for storytelling. And so
when we think about goodness and what resonates, I think
(33:16):
that we have found that people want to see themselves
and they want to imagine themselves in different stories. And
it's been exciting to see how media continues to expand.
One of my kind of Cinderella stories that I've been
loving lately is Doci and her incredible rise right now,
and I think one of the reasons that she's trending
(33:37):
everywhere is she goes on any stage and she is herself,
and that's good storytelling and it is great for business.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Thank you for mentioning severance. Of course, she just didn't
want to get through this pod without that. I could
ask you the same thing, Lisa. I think you intrinsically understand,
maybe throughout your intent higher career, the power of good
and growth for businesses, for brands, for agencies.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I think it's you know I Ultimately it's I think
Amana you said it like we are trying to connect
with audiences, We're trying to connect with consumers. People I
think inherently want to connect with authentic, real stories about
real people, and when they do, there's this connection that
(34:31):
sort of builds trust, and that builds brands, and that
builds all that follows. I really believe that, and I
think what we're doing, whether it's you know, what Amani's doing,
or what I did with Women's Sports or the AD
Council or even at Logo, we're telling stories that haven't
often been told, and so you begin to expand the
(34:54):
imagination of people, and those people start to think, wow,
you know there is a place for me too, and
I want to be affiliated with a company or a
brand who wants to reflect.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
That Amani for somebody who's accomplished a lot at a
young age. What excites you, what's on the precipice.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Right now?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I have really been in my student era, which is
kind of freeing because I think, you know, sometimes you
can say, wow, I've done so much, what is left?
And I'm like, everything is left and so for so
for me, I'm kind of going back to spaces that
I'm really curious about. One of those is a project
(35:42):
I'm working on called Creative Residency, and it is for
ambitious people who don't know how to incorporate rest into
their creative process. And so that's something that's going to
be launching very soon. But you know, as Lisa was talking,
you know, being an athlete, we learn about preparation, and
(36:03):
I think somewhere along the line of just the everyday demand,
we sometimes scrap the preparation and the resting in our
work lives.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
And I have found that when I.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Am not burnt out, I am more creative, I am
just a better collaborator. And so I think I'm going
to be putting a lot of resources behind tools for
ambitious people who need to rest.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
That is my latest, my latest venture. Arianna Huffington, are
you listening?
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Can I be part of the test group for this
new idea, because I'm all in on.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
That absolutely, So we're gonna offline. I'm going to see
what you think exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Please, Lisa, you are accepting and your being inducted into
the Advertising Hall of Fame, which is a lifetime achievement award,
but there is a whole lifetime after. So I would
love to know also what's on the precipice for you,
what's exciting, what's you know giving you anxiety and keeping
(37:11):
you up?
Speaker 4 (37:12):
What's next?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
How much time do you have, Christina, We don't have
enough time to talk about that, you know. I I
said it at the top, and I will say it again.
I continue to look, there's no shortage of issues for
us to work on right in our country. We're doing
some great work on a couple of areas that I think,
you know, I am fully committed to continuing. You know,
(37:35):
whether it's mental health an issue that is you know,
I don't know anyone that's been untouched by mental health challenges,
and it's an issue that has so much stigma associated
with it that people both don't want to acknowledge that
they're struggling, and then therefore they don't get the help
that they need. So I'm fully you know, I'm very
enthusiastic about that. Look, I think we live in an
(37:59):
environment that has become very divided. I think, you know,
the AD Council has always found a way to be
non partisan and talk about issues that allow both sides
to hear and then perhaps with understanding and listening, we
could move on it. So, you know, we just launched
a campaign two weeks ago now on gun violence prevention
(38:23):
that we call agree to Agree. And the one staggering
fact to me is that firearm deaths and injuries are
the number one killer of our kids in this country.
I don't think anybody agrees that that's okay, And so
you know, I think the term we have to agree
to disagree that always sort of ends a conversation. But
(38:46):
if you know, the way we launch this campaign is like, no,
we agree to agree, which can extend a conversation, and
that is sort of another major commitment we have at
the organization, so sort of in the most immediate like
that work is so it's like literally like both of
those issues and the work we're doing will be life saving.
I'm fully committed to that, and you know, I think,
(39:08):
as Amani said, I'm really I do. I think as
part of the work we're doing with mental health, Like
I think there's a reason why they tell you to,
you know, put your oxygen mask on first. You know,
I really feel like for myself in times of the
most stress and most of the times when i'm you know,
can't sleep at night because there's so much, you know,
(39:29):
on my mind, I really want to take the heart
and I'm trying to take the heart that I have
to also have self care and to spend time making
sure that I'm taking care of myself. And because if
I'm not taking care of myself, I'm not good to
my team, I'm not good to my family, and I'm
not good to me. And so that's that's got to
(39:49):
that is really more and more an important priority.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Well that is a whole other podcast that we could
talk about, So we're gonna we're going to have to
go on Amani's podcast. But I do want to thank
you both for putting people before profit and making community
your calling. There are some things that we will carry
forward that you reminded us. We will keep our knees bent,
(40:13):
we will stay ready. Thanks Dad, We'll never make a
decision until we have to, giving it ourselves time to
really think. We will plan using the odyssey method, and
we won't stop when the job gets hard. We'll stop
when the job is done. So thank you both for
the deep wisdom, your shared connection and the work that
(40:36):
you've chosen to make your work.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I'm Christina Pile. Thank you for listening. We'll be back
with another episode before you know it. And for more
information on the American Advertising Federation, go to AAF dot org.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Also to extend the bipl
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