March 13, 2025 • 34 mins
What is advertising? The business encompasses PR, sales, marketing, and so much more. Melanie L. Washington, Esq. and Richard Edelman stay abreast of all of this as they lead each of their teams—listen in on just how they get it all done.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello, Welcome to season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game. In this series, we explore the future of
the advertising industry through never before heard conversations between those
who created it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm your host Tim Natividad and I'm your host Christina
Pile And with that, let's meet the legends. Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We have a great podcast pairing for you today, Tim,
my co host on the show and I We talk
a lot about the pairing of a future legend with
a living legend. It's kind of like a wine pairing
kind of Our guests today have a lot of connective tissue,
but they are also both firsts. They're first to break
(01:05):
the barrier of PR at the Advertising Hall of Fame,
which is a grand stage and a high honor. So
that is making the way for other PR legends to follow.
And we have the first to make space at the
Advertising Hall of Achievement for how legal contracts and governance
impact and indeed transform our business if done well. They
(01:28):
both expanded the aperture of what we call advertising in media,
and I think there's other ways they're connected to I
think there's a Chicago connection, and we'll undoubtedly get into
more layers today. We're going to explore brand reputation and
complexities of agency contracts and more, and you'll see why
(01:48):
these themes are important to you and your business. So
let's get started. Let's introduce our guests. Advertising is a
multifaceted business. It's a crossroads of creative sales, branding, marketing,
experiential pr and so on.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We all want to.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Be close to the creative work, to the fund and
the sexy part of the business, but there are sides
of the business that many of us would consider less
glamorous until now. Few marketing leaders want to spend their
time reviewing contracts and deciphering the legalities that are crucial
to executing business, and often don't make the connection between
how it creates growth and opportunity and reshapes their brand. Well,
(02:31):
we're going to dig in on that today with our
special guests.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Melanie L.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Washington, the principal head of Contract Advisory at Media Liink,
but more effectually known to those who know as the
contract whisperer, Melody establishes the specialty practice she now leads
within Media Link, working with clients legal teams to help
navigate complexities of written legal agreements and risk evaluation of
(02:55):
contract partnerships. She's led the way on completely reshaping how brands,
agency and corporate councils structure their deals across the board.
She's been the behind the scenes architect of more than
forty five billion that's billion dollars in global media spend
to date, thus uncovering a brand new and highly lucrative
revenue stream. And you don't make it into the Hall
(03:17):
of Achievement on just achievement alone. Melanie also gives her
time to incredible community organizations like the LA Speech and
the LA Language Center, the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts
and Future. Now this past year, she joined the faculty
at Northwestern Law School as the adjunct professor. So we
(03:38):
could do a whole podcast on how she balances her time,
but we don't have time for that today.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Please welcome Melanie.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Thank you so much. It's so great to be here.
And that was a fantastic introduction. I was like, oh
my gosh, are you talking about me? That's lovely, But
it's really a pleasure to be here, and I really
look forward to this conversation with you and Richard.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I want to also congratulate you on being inducted to
the Averageing Hall of Achievement so major, and I would
love to know where where are you joining us from?
Are you in Sunny La living your best life?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I am in Sunny La living my best life. But
don't tell anyone I did not make it into the
office today. I am working from home, but I am
here at my living room table where a lot of
you know, the creativity happens behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, well, you got to love that flexibility, that hybrid option.
So I won't tell anybody, just our listeners. Joining Melanie
on this episode is Richard Edelman, the CEO of Edelman,
the world's largest communications firm period. Richard's father Dan started
the firm in nineteen fifty two and passed the torch
on to Richard in nineteen ninety six, and he has
(04:44):
not only set the PR world on fire, but he's
also ignited the family agency into major growth. Throughout the
twenty eight years that he's been CEO, he's increased revenue
by more than eleven times and expanded their agency presence
to sixty six offices worldwide. Richard has changed the definition
of PR, what it means to be a public relations agency,
(05:05):
and most importantly, the understanding of what public relations can
do for marketers. Richard is a leader. He's steering major
corporations like Samsung, Starbucks, and United Airlines through brand and
reputation management. Richard is an advisor. He's considered a top
authority on trust in business, government, media, and NGOs. And
(05:26):
Richard is an innovator. Edelman was a first PR agency
to launch a digital practice in nineteen ninety five and
evolved traditional public relations practice overall to be a global
communications powerhouse that it is today. Welcome Richard, and a
related congratulations to you on being inducted into the Advertising
Hall of Fame in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, I thought your reference to Chicago was perfectly appropriate
because I went to the Bears game on Sunday and
I got to sing Bear Down, Chicago Bears, and I
hadn't done that in a few years, and anyway, I
felt like a kid again.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, so there is a there is a Chicago connection here.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
My first time on the field since nineteen sixty three,
So that's a long time I got field passes, and god,
that was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think there's a quote from you about you don't
mess with somebody from Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
That's true. I have a sweatshirt that's draped over a
producer's chair that Jared Moses gave me, who was Melanie's mentor,
and it said you can't scare me. I'm from Chicago
and it has like this Halloween motif, so totally true. Yeah,
And when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame,
I told a story about some holding company trying to
(06:37):
buy us, and when I said no, he said he
threatened that. You know, he was going to squash us
like a nut. And I sent him back a note
I said, We're one tough nut.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So I know.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I would love to know. I feel like you're not
going to disclose it on this podcast. I would love
to know who that hold co was trying to buy
you and threaten you.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Well, it doesn't matter. They're still here and no threats
bother me.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Melanie. What's your Chicago connection?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
By way of Northwestern? So as soon as I finished
school here in Los Angeles, I went to undergrad at
Northwestern and spent four very very cold years there so
much so that I had to make my way out.
I didn't, you know, necessarily combat the cold that much
because I made I landed in New York, so but
(07:26):
I was used to it. There's nothing like a Chicago winter,
I mean that is brutal. So spent some time there
off of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, I do remember an ad history when they said
you couldn't you weren't viable outside of New York and Chicago.
Proused them differently, and absolutely Minnesota and Portland and San Francisco.
So it's a good time. It's a good time to
be in the industry. Well, both of you mentioned the
role of mentors and on your respective careers, and we
(07:57):
know that nobody gets to the state is that you've
gotten to in the achievement without mentors. Richard, do you
talk about your father as one of your mentors and
getting to work and learn from him for thirty five
years And I'd love for you to talk more about
the role of mentors, even if it's beyond your father
(08:17):
an impact on your career.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Well, you can read my blog post of yesterday because
it was Founder's Day seventy two years since Dan founded
Edelman and the merchandise martin Chicago. And yes, in fact,
he was my mentor and I had to talk to
him every day once I became CEO, tell him what
I was doing, get his advice, which was great. We
worked together for thirty five years. But I had other mentors.
(08:42):
Peter Georgesciu, for example, CEO of Y and R was
very generous with his time and continues to be. And
I rely on having people guide me advise me who
are not necessarily in the industry. It can be Presidency
universities or even my trainer who periodically gives me advice
(09:03):
whether I like it or not. And it's mostly very practical.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And you, I think you also mentioned your Larry, your
Harvard Business School professors too as part of your.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Steve Grayser, Yeah, he was invaluable for me, and he's
he's an advertising legend. I mean he started the advertising
course at HBS and he was the guy who started
business of sports at HBS. So again he's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And Melanie, you talk about Andre Harel and also there's
like a deeper lesson in there about not kind of
getting a little bit of rejection, but not a rejection.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It was a setup for success.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I would love for you to talk about your relationship
with Andre and mentorship in general.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Absolutely. I mean I have to say that I wouldn't
be at this point without having just amazing people that
have poured into me. And i'd say not necessarily by
just getting and kind of like that surface level advice,
but really really taking the time to help to guide
me and what is you know, the crazy world of
advertising in marketing, So think about just kind of a young,
(10:12):
bright eyed, you know, girl trying to figure out specifically
what it is I wanted to do and really just
having that opportunity to connect with Andre and he taught
me some real life lessons, right. You know, it was
really about how do you carve out a space for yourself?
How are you walking into a room and you know,
making sure people are actually noticing you, especially when you
(10:34):
think about, you know, just being a diverse woman and
really a male dominated industry. So there's certainly a lot
to be said there. So if I think about the
different times in my career in terms of making different shifts,
you know, Andrea was really there and helping me think
through specifically what that looks like. You know, So when
I thought through. I first started out in as a
(10:56):
marketing practitioner on both the agency and the brand side,
you know, working on campaign strategies and you know, really
kind of working through the ins and outs and learning
the business of media and really kind of figuring out that,
you know, there's something more to this, and so thinking
through how I kind of take that career shift from
being a marketing practitioner to entering into the you know,
(11:19):
the tough world of law and that I'm in now.
You know, there is certainly a lot to be said
about how to really kind of think through that, and Andre,
you know, said you really have to look at that
light space in terms of you know, really building a
practice where there is certainly going to be a need
and really kind of responding to I mean, and that's
really where things are going to. Where you're going to
(11:42):
be able to carve out and really make a difference
from that perspective is understanding what does that need? How
are you presenting yourself in the room, How are you
really kind of making your voice heard and making sure
that you are really responding to the industry in a
way and building kind of a service specifically that's going
to kind of fill avoid and that's a lot of
(12:03):
what he told me. I mean, I had to work
for it with him, meaning you know it wasn't easy.
I did work for him early on in my career
as a I started out as his assistant. But you know,
just kind of those little nuggets of information he gave
me or truly something that have stayed with me today
and inspired, you know, the birth of the contract optimization
(12:24):
practice that I currently running at Media Link.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, I hope he gets to listen to this episode.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I know he will feel moved by your comments recognition
of him. I wanted to stay with you for a
minute and come back to the contract Whisperer.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I love. I love that you.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Have become to be known as that before becoming the
powerhouse and in contract whisperer you are today.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You started out on.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The marketing side of a number of years, sort of
by accident. Can you tell us how that all came about?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Absolutely so. I as I told you, I started out
working with Andre Herrell as his assistant, and you know,
he really had the foresight in terms of saying, you know,
there's something more for you out there, kid. You know,
he wanted me to explore you know, just working across
different agencies, and so he made that first introduction to me.
(13:22):
For me, when I worked at Strategic Group. First I
went from Strategic Group to BMF Media. I did a
stint at United Entertainment Group, which of course Richard is
very familiar with, But there was a disconnect for me
as I was working within the media and marketing realm.
There were so many deals that we were doing. If
(13:43):
you think about the you know, the depth and breadth
of you know, global partnerships helping to come up with
new strategies for you know, these really really reputable brands,
and then when we start thinking through how you know,
these deals need to be envision within us contract I
found myself many times working directly with business and legal
(14:06):
affairs to make sure that they were actually capturing the
essence of the deals that we were working on on
the front end. You know, there was certainly we think
about contracts, they are very very dense, there's a lot
of legallees. But what was missing were kind of you know,
those brand specific points that are going to help a brand,
you know, kind of get to those kind of clear
(14:27):
business outcomes and how are partners going to help you
do that. So what happened was I found myself actually
advising in house teams specifically on how to kind of
structure these deals. I like to call, you know, deal
making one of the most creative jobs. I know that
I do it within the confines of you know, I
did it within the confines of the law, of course,
(14:50):
but it's really about how are we coming up, you know,
with different contracting structures and really negotiation strategies that are
going to help CEMO and legal teams work cohesively. So
when I was at the agency, I actually decided that
I wanted to formally explore, you know, being in law.
(15:11):
So I went to law school. It was tough, I balanced,
you know, working full time. I was working full time
at United Entertainment Group for several years and then I
was actually going to law school full time. But I
went there specifically with the goal of really kind of
digging into this white space. So if we think about,
you know, identifying a need in the industry, and I
(15:33):
always had Andrea in the back of my head in
terms of, you know, figure out where you can fit in.
I knew that there was something there in terms of
bridging that gap between kind of your day to day teams,
and also bridging the gap with in house legal teams
that may not be as well first in the ins
and outs of media and marketing because they actually weren't
(15:54):
practitioners themselves. So you know, it was really an opportunity
for me to take my several years working both and
understanding brands and agencies and then taking it and merging
it with my formal training and figuring out how to
operate within that space, which is really how our contract
optimization team was birth gap medialy.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We talked about with you navigating into marketing agencies by accident,
but when we Richard, when we talk about you and
by contrast, stepping into the CEO role, Edelman was not
an accident. It was very much by design to be
family owned and family operated. So tell me the importance
of this legacy to you, because I can I imagine
(16:38):
there's been many suitors who've come by, and if they
do continue to come by, we've got Melanie who could
help negotiate that contract. But talk to me about the
legacy of family owned, family operated.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I think that my father and I took the path
less trod, meaning most firms sold out tom dycomm or
IPG or WPP, and that was the standard way of
getting money, and neither of us were focused on that.
Both of us had the idea that this family business
(17:09):
could go global and that we could expand the definition
of PR beyond media relations into experiential or influencer or
digital or creative. And that's what we've done. And we've
been quite relentless about making acquisitions and new markets and
(17:31):
diversifying the business. You know, we'd buy a firm in
a you know, Germany and was healthcare firm, and then
we'd go into corporate or brand or other things. And
so I think our model has been unique in the industry,
and I think we've in a certain way disproven industry
logic and shown that in fact, a independent firm. We
(17:52):
had sixteen lions that can this year, including a titanium
for a DP World and three goals for Kia and
for Heineken and for Unilever, and so I'm really proud
of having been able to, you know, confound usual industry logic.
And my three daughters are all in the company and
(18:12):
being trained in one's thirty seven, one's thirty three, and
once's twenty nine and Today's Russia, Shana, And of course
I think about, you know, being a Jewish family business
at some point of major pride for me, and I
hope that they'll succeed me. That's my my every expectation.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, we love to see women lead and so we've
got three strong options there. And thank you for noting
the holiday today, Melan. I'm going to go back to you.
You were talking about balancing your full time job going
to law school. So how did you pull that off
and what inspired you to take that leap.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I have to say it was probably one of the
toughest times in my life, but I had the I
had a really strong support system, a really huge network
that I found within you know, the Four Walls of
United in an entertainment group when I was going to
law school. I mean, it really really took people actually
(19:08):
coming behind me and pulling me by my caller and
saying it's time for class. So that was something that
was actually really important as you start to think about
balance and commitment and having like a really really strong
network that is going to support you. But the one
thing that was really important for me is really making
sure that I wasn't taking a full step back away
(19:29):
from the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So if we think.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
About how fast media and marketing and advertising evolves, all
of the different technological advancements, it was really important for
me to actually stay put where I was and making
sure that I was continuing to be kind of abreast
of what was going on. What I didn't want to
do was actually walk away for three four years, go
to school and actually come back and almost have to
(19:54):
kind of relearn things over again, because things obviously, as
we know, they happen at the speed of light. So
that is something that was really important to me in
terms of, you know, making sure that there was that
balance having like a really really strong network and team
behind me. And you know, the other thing that I'd
say is, as I was had worked for about ten
(20:17):
years prior to formally going or really kind of pursuing
my legal career, you start to approach things differently, right,
you know, It's like I approached it as a job.
It was very different. It was hard to get back
into that kind of mindset of being a student. But
when you're able to really kind of apply some of
those real world experiences and then also couple that with
(20:38):
making a conscious decision to pursue something and no one's
telling you you have to go back to school. That
truly was the game changer for me and really made
all of the difference. So it was really kind of
like a perfect trifecta, i'd say, in terms of what
got me through. But what I'd say also is that
it was not It wasn't easy, which I'm sure Richard
(20:59):
knows as well.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Well, thank you for that honesty and just outstanding to
be able to strike that balance.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, and you know, I actually really identify that as
one of the most difficult times in my career. But Richard,
I actually wanted to ask you a question. I mean,
you have had so much success, you know, can you
tell us a little bit about a difficult time that
you've had in your career journey? When did things get
hard for you? Well?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I was CEO for a year and I hired a
new CFO who installed a financial system that didn't work,
and we couldn't send bills for a couple of months,
and my father looked at me like I was crazy,
And fortunately we were able to turn it around in
a month or so. But you know, that was not
good and I learned a lot from that We're never
(21:45):
going to implement a financial system without pretesting and all
this stuff, and I have to have to pay attention
to details and not just go out and get business.
That was really scary, And it was also scary in
COVID when demand just dropped off a cliff in some
markets like China, and you know, we were able fortunately
to fall back on our balance sheet and you know,
(22:06):
hang in there. But it was also important to, you know,
as soon as I could come back to the official
people that I was, you know, at captain of the
ship and that square my shoulders and get back to
work and give people a lot of input from the
trust barometer that we did every month on different subjects
and help guide the clients. So I would say those
(22:27):
are the two scary times.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's a little bit of a scary time in the
industry right now. And Melanie, that brings your kind of
specialty into focus, because if the devil's in the details,
I know those details are in the MSS, the MSA,
they're in the commercials and that's where the real business
is happening at our different agencies.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, think about the amount
of money right that is being poured into the industry
billions and billions and billions of dollars, and you know,
it's so important to really kind of have that level
of quality control, you know, you know paying you know
they always say the devil's in the details, and really understanding,
(23:14):
you know, specifically the interests that you're trying to protect.
So if you think about what a legal team in
house legal team is tasked with, right, you know, their
their leads will go to them and say, hey, we
want you to protect the interests of our global enterprise.
But if you don't understand the ins and outs of it,
if you don't understand the decisions that different departments are
(23:35):
making and why they're making those decisions, and if you
are not closely tied to you know, specifically kind of
what those three five year goals are and understanding all
of the different you know, influences that are going to
drive different decisions. What's a contract, right, you know, it's
(23:56):
it's basically a blank piece of paper that actually holds now. Wait,
but you know, as we've gotten into this time where
marketing budgets are being cut, you know, Richard brought that up.
COVID was a very very telling time you know, where
agencies were losing money left and right. You know, there's
some industries that actually thrived, but there are a lot
(24:18):
that didn't. And so it really took a lot to
figure out a way to reinvent agreements that was still
unlocking incremental value for brands so that they could actually
find ways to reinvest money back in their budgets because
they had to make their dollars stretch even further because
their budgets were going down. So I do spend a
(24:38):
lot of time thinking about, you know, the structure of agreements,
thinking about how to unlock incremental value. What do you know,
what is productivity? You know, what do efficiency targets look
like from an advertiser perspective, And it's not about just
saving the money, but it's how are we you know,
positioning them in a way to set them up for
(25:00):
future growth, but doing it in a way that is
going to be i'd say, really in line with and
realistic in terms of as we think about how agencies
are operating. Right, So it's it's again I'm to your point.
I'm behind the scenes leveraging different benchmarks, you know, across
(25:22):
different categories. Think about auto CpG retail media networks, you know,
start to do a lot of work in highly regulated categories.
But there's a through line there, right, and the through
line is how are we unlocking and extracting more value
on the advertising side and also making sure that on
you know, Richard's side, on the agency side, you know
(25:44):
that they are really creating deals that are going to
be mutually beneficial and protecting interests.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
We talked about your leap.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I do want to ask Richard about a quantum leap
that your network, the Edleman Network, has taken over the years.
Was it nineteen ninety five with the digitization, was it
the launch of the Trust Barometer twenty years ago? I'd
love to know that quantum leap for your network.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
So we had really four leaps. We had the one
when we started doing digital, we had another one when
we started doing creative. We had another one when the
trust barometer. So I would say now our hope is
that we do one based on AI and that we
have a product coming out called ARCHIAI that's going to
(26:34):
enable communicators to write more intelligent press releases and speeches
and do message points, you know, based on not just
their own knowledge, but you know what fifty companies have
already done that it's improved trust. So we're quite keen
(26:55):
to put this to advantage make our work better than
the other RGAI.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You heard it here first. So the name of my
dog is that the whole family is in on it, Richard,
the whole family, just to jump in.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It's while you have, you know, agencies that are building
out these like net newtic like this fantastic technology advertisers
behind the scenes right now, they're like, you know, they're
shaking in their seats if we think about kind of
AI governance and what that means for their business and
how to implement it, and just kind of some of
(27:30):
the different protections that need to be put in place,
you know, and to think about what happens from a
privacy perspective. All of this stuff isn't written right, you know,
we'd say that, you know, the rise of AI powered personalization,
that is actually the trend to watch right now. Everybody's
talking about it, but it's it's really from my perspective,
the work that I'm doing is how do you stay
(27:51):
ahead of that? How are you catching up? And you know,
how are you really kind of thinking through that in
a way that is going to make sure that advertisers
and agencies alike are protected in that because it unlocks,
you know, and unlocks a lot there, you know, just
from a risk perspective. But more than that, I say,
the benefit outweighs the risk one hundred percent. And that's
(28:12):
obviously where we're going.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
We can't have an episode, an advertising episode without talking
about our clients, perhaps the lifeblood or the reason why
we're in service. Talk to me about a client relationship,
special unique breakthrough client relationship, Richard, I'd love to hear
from you.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Well, the one I've at worked on the longest as Unilever.
I started in the mid eighties and still on today
forty years later, and my work has moved from mostly
brand marketing, which I did in the eighties, to some
part marketing and some part advising top executives on geopolitics
(28:52):
or versus inclusion, sustainability, and so I love working on
that one. And I've also worked on the dairy business
for almost, I don't know, fifteen years, and I know
a lot of the farmers and I respect that again
because of family business, and just.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
To jump in around client relationships. I'll continue the conversation there,
I'd say on my side, they've been tough. You know,
you really have to build trust because if you think
about it, I'm working with some of the most seasoned,
tenured legal professionals in the industry. You know, if you
think about you know, the global General Council for X,
(29:32):
Y and Z Financial Institution, Cross Pharma, these people are smart,
smart smart. It just so happens that a lot of
the work that I do, I'm brought in from the
marketing side and from the media teams who are really
trying to figure out how to make sure those kind
of business points are integrated and memorialized into the agreements
because there's always been that disconnect that we've talked about.
(29:53):
But I'd say that building client relationships for me, it
was a slow start, but that is actually how I
was able kind of to define success for me. When
I heard one day from you know, general counsel they said,
we get it right. That for me was just truly
a defining moment, you know, just to start to become
(30:13):
a thought leader in that space and to start to
really gain the trust of these really amazing you know
very you know, reputable global brands are pumping a lot
of money into the industry. So that for me has
been truly a success in gaining that trust, but it
definitely took some time.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, that's a good word, from reputation to governance to trust,
which is something that Edelman has really put into the Zeigeist.
Final question, you both have worked with major rebranding and
reputation management in different capacities. What do you see as
the biggest challenges.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
For me, The biggest challenge is moving clients to appreciate
the importance of all stakeholders, not just Wall Street or
not just consumers. That employees, for example, have a very
important voice now in the future of the enterprise, and
that companies need to make money but also be important
(31:19):
in society and stand for change, and that especially when
you've had a crisis, to make it an opportunity to
change your stripes. And when United had that problem five
years ago of taking the passenger off the plane, they
fundamentally change their relationship not just with the customer but
(31:40):
also the gate agents and gave them a lot more
leeway to do what was necessary instead of having this
playbook from the nineteen fifties that just was like military
and you have to trust your people and that CEO
Oscar Munos United deserves a lot of credit for recognizing
the need for change.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I think that's so poignant with great companies look at
their employees as their first consumers.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Melanie, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Just going to say, as we think about a number
of legacy brands that are trying to keep up with
the market, that are really trying to go through you know,
massive marketing transformation, you know, reworking their data infrastructure, really
trying to figure out this world of digital I think
one of the biggest challenges that I've seen is managing
(32:31):
and mastering this blend of art and science, you know,
and it's kind of where it does creativity and strategy merge.
So it's really kind of how are brands crafting compelling
stories while using the data right to really kind of
understand how they can bring impact. And that's something that
we're seeing a lot of companies struggle with. Obviously, some
do it better than others, but there's certainly obviously a
(32:54):
lot of opportunities to build that brand story, find ways
to think outside of the box. What how are you
doing that while setting yourself up to kind of achieve
measurable results right, and how are you bringing in the
right partner ecosystem to help you do that? So I'd
say to Richard's point, it's certainly within the four walls
of your organization, but it's also how are you constructing
(33:15):
and really kind of, you know, architecting your partner ecosystem
to bring in the Edelmans of the world to help you.
Really kind of think through a lot of those narratives, Richard,
from a living legend to a future legend. One piece
of advice to close this out, get.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Knocked down ten, get up eleven. Just be your resilient
self and don't let any individual or client shake your confidence.
You've got a mission and go do it. I'm proud
of you.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Thank you so much. I'm going to take that with me.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Get knocked down ten and get up eleven. Richard and Melody,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm Christina Pile. Thank you for listening. We'll be back
with another episode.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Before you know it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go
to AAF dot org.
Hello, Welcome to season three of the Future Legends of
Advertising podcast on iHeart, featuring the hottest up and coming
stars and advertising as well as the biggest legends in
the game. In this series, we explore the future of
the advertising industry through never before heard conversations between those
who created it and those who are shaping its future.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm your host Tim Natividad and I'm your host Christina
Pile And with that, let's meet the legends. Welcome.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
We have a great podcast pairing for you today, Tim,
my co host on the show and I We talk
a lot about the pairing of a future legend with
a living legend. It's kind of like a wine pairing
kind of Our guests today have a lot of connective tissue,
but they are also both firsts. They're first to break
(01:05):
the barrier of PR at the Advertising Hall of Fame,
which is a grand stage and a high honor. So
that is making the way for other PR legends to follow.
And we have the first to make space at the
Advertising Hall of Achievement for how legal contracts and governance
impact and indeed transform our business if done well. They
(01:28):
both expanded the aperture of what we call advertising in media,
and I think there's other ways they're connected to I
think there's a Chicago connection, and we'll undoubtedly get into
more layers today. We're going to explore brand reputation and
complexities of agency contracts and more, and you'll see why
(01:48):
these themes are important to you and your business. So
let's get started. Let's introduce our guests. Advertising is a
multifaceted business. It's a crossroads of creative sales, branding, marketing,
experiential pr and so on.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We all want to.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Be close to the creative work, to the fund and
the sexy part of the business, but there are sides
of the business that many of us would consider less
glamorous until now. Few marketing leaders want to spend their
time reviewing contracts and deciphering the legalities that are crucial
to executing business, and often don't make the connection between
how it creates growth and opportunity and reshapes their brand. Well,
(02:31):
we're going to dig in on that today with our
special guests.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Melanie L.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Washington, the principal head of Contract Advisory at Media Liink,
but more effectually known to those who know as the
contract whisperer, Melody establishes the specialty practice she now leads
within Media Link, working with clients legal teams to help
navigate complexities of written legal agreements and risk evaluation of
(02:55):
contract partnerships. She's led the way on completely reshaping how brands,
agency and corporate councils structure their deals across the board.
She's been the behind the scenes architect of more than
forty five billion that's billion dollars in global media spend
to date, thus uncovering a brand new and highly lucrative
revenue stream. And you don't make it into the Hall
(03:17):
of Achievement on just achievement alone. Melanie also gives her
time to incredible community organizations like the LA Speech and
the LA Language Center, the Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts
and Future. Now this past year, she joined the faculty
at Northwestern Law School as the adjunct professor. So we
(03:38):
could do a whole podcast on how she balances her time,
but we don't have time for that today.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Please welcome Melanie.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Thank you so much. It's so great to be here.
And that was a fantastic introduction. I was like, oh
my gosh, are you talking about me? That's lovely, But
it's really a pleasure to be here, and I really
look forward to this conversation with you and Richard.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I want to also congratulate you on being inducted to
the Averageing Hall of Achievement so major, and I would
love to know where where are you joining us from?
Are you in Sunny La living your best life?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I am in Sunny La living my best life. But
don't tell anyone I did not make it into the
office today. I am working from home, but I am
here at my living room table where a lot of
you know, the creativity happens behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, well, you got to love that flexibility, that hybrid option.
So I won't tell anybody, just our listeners. Joining Melanie
on this episode is Richard Edelman, the CEO of Edelman,
the world's largest communications firm period. Richard's father Dan started
the firm in nineteen fifty two and passed the torch
on to Richard in nineteen ninety six, and he has
(04:44):
not only set the PR world on fire, but he's
also ignited the family agency into major growth. Throughout the
twenty eight years that he's been CEO, he's increased revenue
by more than eleven times and expanded their agency presence
to sixty six offices worldwide. Richard has changed the definition
of PR, what it means to be a public relations agency,
(05:05):
and most importantly, the understanding of what public relations can
do for marketers. Richard is a leader. He's steering major
corporations like Samsung, Starbucks, and United Airlines through brand and
reputation management. Richard is an advisor. He's considered a top
authority on trust in business, government, media, and NGOs. And
(05:26):
Richard is an innovator. Edelman was a first PR agency
to launch a digital practice in nineteen ninety five and
evolved traditional public relations practice overall to be a global
communications powerhouse that it is today. Welcome Richard, and a
related congratulations to you on being inducted into the Advertising
Hall of Fame in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Well, I thought your reference to Chicago was perfectly appropriate
because I went to the Bears game on Sunday and
I got to sing Bear Down, Chicago Bears, and I
hadn't done that in a few years, and anyway, I
felt like a kid again.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Okay, so there is a there is a Chicago connection here.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
My first time on the field since nineteen sixty three,
So that's a long time I got field passes, and god,
that was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think there's a quote from you about you don't
mess with somebody from Chicago.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
That's true. I have a sweatshirt that's draped over a
producer's chair that Jared Moses gave me, who was Melanie's mentor,
and it said you can't scare me. I'm from Chicago
and it has like this Halloween motif, so totally true. Yeah,
And when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame,
I told a story about some holding company trying to
(06:37):
buy us, and when I said no, he said he
threatened that. You know, he was going to squash us
like a nut. And I sent him back a note
I said, We're one tough nut.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So I know.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
I would love to know. I feel like you're not
going to disclose it on this podcast. I would love
to know who that hold co was trying to buy
you and threaten you.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Well, it doesn't matter. They're still here and no threats
bother me.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Melanie. What's your Chicago connection?
Speaker 3 (07:04):
By way of Northwestern? So as soon as I finished
school here in Los Angeles, I went to undergrad at
Northwestern and spent four very very cold years there so
much so that I had to make my way out.
I didn't, you know, necessarily combat the cold that much
because I made I landed in New York, so but
(07:26):
I was used to it. There's nothing like a Chicago winter,
I mean that is brutal. So spent some time there
off of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, I do remember an ad history when they said
you couldn't you weren't viable outside of New York and Chicago.
Proused them differently, and absolutely Minnesota and Portland and San Francisco.
So it's a good time. It's a good time to
be in the industry. Well, both of you mentioned the
role of mentors and on your respective careers, and we
(07:57):
know that nobody gets to the state is that you've
gotten to in the achievement without mentors. Richard, do you
talk about your father as one of your mentors and
getting to work and learn from him for thirty five
years And I'd love for you to talk more about
the role of mentors, even if it's beyond your father
(08:17):
an impact on your career.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Well, you can read my blog post of yesterday because
it was Founder's Day seventy two years since Dan founded
Edelman and the merchandise martin Chicago. And yes, in fact,
he was my mentor and I had to talk to
him every day once I became CEO, tell him what
I was doing, get his advice, which was great. We
worked together for thirty five years. But I had other mentors.
(08:42):
Peter Georgesciu, for example, CEO of Y and R was
very generous with his time and continues to be. And
I rely on having people guide me advise me who
are not necessarily in the industry. It can be Presidency
universities or even my trainer who periodically gives me advice
(09:03):
whether I like it or not. And it's mostly very practical.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
And you, I think you also mentioned your Larry, your
Harvard Business School professors too as part of your.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Steve Grayser, Yeah, he was invaluable for me, and he's
he's an advertising legend. I mean he started the advertising
course at HBS and he was the guy who started
business of sports at HBS. So again he's been amazing.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
And Melanie, you talk about Andre Harel and also there's
like a deeper lesson in there about not kind of
getting a little bit of rejection, but not a rejection.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
It was a setup for success.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I would love for you to talk about your relationship
with Andre and mentorship in general.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Absolutely. I mean I have to say that I wouldn't
be at this point without having just amazing people that
have poured into me. And i'd say not necessarily by
just getting and kind of like that surface level advice,
but really really taking the time to help to guide
me and what is you know, the crazy world of
advertising in marketing, So think about just kind of a young,
(10:12):
bright eyed, you know, girl trying to figure out specifically
what it is I wanted to do and really just
having that opportunity to connect with Andre and he taught
me some real life lessons, right. You know, it was
really about how do you carve out a space for yourself?
How are you walking into a room and you know,
making sure people are actually noticing you, especially when you
(10:34):
think about, you know, just being a diverse woman and
really a male dominated industry. So there's certainly a lot
to be said there. So if I think about the
different times in my career in terms of making different shifts,
you know, Andrea was really there and helping me think
through specifically what that looks like. You know, So when
I thought through. I first started out in as a
(10:56):
marketing practitioner on both the agency and the brand side,
you know, working on campaign strategies and you know, really
kind of working through the ins and outs and learning
the business of media and really kind of figuring out that,
you know, there's something more to this, and so thinking
through how I kind of take that career shift from
being a marketing practitioner to entering into the you know,
(11:19):
the tough world of law and that I'm in now.
You know, there is certainly a lot to be said
about how to really kind of think through that, and Andre,
you know, said you really have to look at that
light space in terms of you know, really building a
practice where there is certainly going to be a need
and really kind of responding to I mean, and that's
really where things are going to. Where you're going to
(11:42):
be able to carve out and really make a difference
from that perspective is understanding what does that need? How
are you presenting yourself in the room, How are you
really kind of making your voice heard and making sure
that you are really responding to the industry in a
way and building kind of a service specifically that's going
to kind of fill avoid and that's a lot of
(12:03):
what he told me. I mean, I had to work
for it with him, meaning you know it wasn't easy.
I did work for him early on in my career
as a I started out as his assistant. But you know,
just kind of those little nuggets of information he gave
me or truly something that have stayed with me today
and inspired, you know, the birth of the contract optimization
(12:24):
practice that I currently running at Media Link.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Well, I hope he gets to listen to this episode.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I know he will feel moved by your comments recognition
of him. I wanted to stay with you for a
minute and come back to the contract Whisperer.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
I love. I love that you.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Have become to be known as that before becoming the
powerhouse and in contract whisperer you are today.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
You started out on.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
The marketing side of a number of years, sort of
by accident. Can you tell us how that all came about?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Absolutely so. I as I told you, I started out
working with Andre Herrell as his assistant, and you know,
he really had the foresight in terms of saying, you know,
there's something more for you out there, kid. You know,
he wanted me to explore you know, just working across
different agencies, and so he made that first introduction to me.
(13:22):
For me, when I worked at Strategic Group. First I
went from Strategic Group to BMF Media. I did a
stint at United Entertainment Group, which of course Richard is
very familiar with, But there was a disconnect for me
as I was working within the media and marketing realm.
There were so many deals that we were doing. If
(13:43):
you think about the you know, the depth and breadth
of you know, global partnerships helping to come up with
new strategies for you know, these really really reputable brands,
and then when we start thinking through how you know,
these deals need to be envision within us contract I
found myself many times working directly with business and legal
(14:06):
affairs to make sure that they were actually capturing the
essence of the deals that we were working on on
the front end. You know, there was certainly we think
about contracts, they are very very dense, there's a lot
of legallees. But what was missing were kind of you know,
those brand specific points that are going to help a brand,
you know, kind of get to those kind of clear
(14:27):
business outcomes and how are partners going to help you
do that. So what happened was I found myself actually
advising in house teams specifically on how to kind of
structure these deals. I like to call, you know, deal
making one of the most creative jobs. I know that
I do it within the confines of you know, I
did it within the confines of the law, of course,
(14:50):
but it's really about how are we coming up, you know,
with different contracting structures and really negotiation strategies that are
going to help CEMO and legal teams work cohesively. So
when I was at the agency, I actually decided that
I wanted to formally explore, you know, being in law.
(15:11):
So I went to law school. It was tough, I balanced,
you know, working full time. I was working full time
at United Entertainment Group for several years and then I
was actually going to law school full time. But I
went there specifically with the goal of really kind of
digging into this white space. So if we think about,
you know, identifying a need in the industry, and I
(15:33):
always had Andrea in the back of my head in
terms of, you know, figure out where you can fit in.
I knew that there was something there in terms of
bridging that gap between kind of your day to day teams,
and also bridging the gap with in house legal teams
that may not be as well first in the ins
and outs of media and marketing because they actually weren't
(15:54):
practitioners themselves. So you know, it was really an opportunity
for me to take my several years working both and
understanding brands and agencies and then taking it and merging
it with my formal training and figuring out how to
operate within that space, which is really how our contract
optimization team was birth gap medialy.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
We talked about with you navigating into marketing agencies by accident,
but when we Richard, when we talk about you and
by contrast, stepping into the CEO role, Edelman was not
an accident. It was very much by design to be
family owned and family operated. So tell me the importance
of this legacy to you, because I can I imagine
(16:38):
there's been many suitors who've come by, and if they
do continue to come by, we've got Melanie who could
help negotiate that contract. But talk to me about the
legacy of family owned, family operated.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
I think that my father and I took the path
less trod, meaning most firms sold out tom dycomm or
IPG or WPP, and that was the standard way of
getting money, and neither of us were focused on that.
Both of us had the idea that this family business
(17:09):
could go global and that we could expand the definition
of PR beyond media relations into experiential or influencer or
digital or creative. And that's what we've done. And we've
been quite relentless about making acquisitions and new markets and
(17:31):
diversifying the business. You know, we'd buy a firm in
a you know, Germany and was healthcare firm, and then
we'd go into corporate or brand or other things. And
so I think our model has been unique in the industry,
and I think we've in a certain way disproven industry
logic and shown that in fact, a independent firm. We
(17:52):
had sixteen lions that can this year, including a titanium
for a DP World and three goals for Kia and
for Heineken and for Unilever, and so I'm really proud
of having been able to, you know, confound usual industry logic.
And my three daughters are all in the company and
(18:12):
being trained in one's thirty seven, one's thirty three, and
once's twenty nine and Today's Russia, Shana, And of course
I think about, you know, being a Jewish family business
at some point of major pride for me, and I
hope that they'll succeed me. That's my my every expectation.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, we love to see women lead and so we've
got three strong options there. And thank you for noting
the holiday today, Melan. I'm going to go back to you.
You were talking about balancing your full time job going
to law school. So how did you pull that off
and what inspired you to take that leap.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I have to say it was probably one of the
toughest times in my life, but I had the I
had a really strong support system, a really huge network
that I found within you know, the Four Walls of
United in an entertainment group when I was going to
law school. I mean, it really really took people actually
(19:08):
coming behind me and pulling me by my caller and
saying it's time for class. So that was something that
was actually really important as you start to think about
balance and commitment and having like a really really strong
network that is going to support you. But the one
thing that was really important for me is really making
sure that I wasn't taking a full step back away
(19:29):
from the industry.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
So if we think.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
About how fast media and marketing and advertising evolves, all
of the different technological advancements, it was really important for
me to actually stay put where I was and making
sure that I was continuing to be kind of abreast
of what was going on. What I didn't want to
do was actually walk away for three four years, go
to school and actually come back and almost have to
(19:54):
kind of relearn things over again, because things obviously, as
we know, they happen at the speed of light. So
that is something that was really important to me in
terms of, you know, making sure that there was that
balance having like a really really strong network and team
behind me. And you know, the other thing that I'd
say is, as I was had worked for about ten
(20:17):
years prior to formally going or really kind of pursuing
my legal career, you start to approach things differently, right,
you know, It's like I approached it as a job.
It was very different. It was hard to get back
into that kind of mindset of being a student. But
when you're able to really kind of apply some of
those real world experiences and then also couple that with
(20:38):
making a conscious decision to pursue something and no one's
telling you you have to go back to school. That
truly was the game changer for me and really made
all of the difference. So it was really kind of
like a perfect trifecta, i'd say, in terms of what
got me through. But what I'd say also is that
it was not It wasn't easy, which I'm sure Richard
(20:59):
knows as well.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Well, thank you for that honesty and just outstanding to
be able to strike that balance.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah, and you know, I actually really identify that as
one of the most difficult times in my career. But Richard,
I actually wanted to ask you a question. I mean,
you have had so much success, you know, can you
tell us a little bit about a difficult time that
you've had in your career journey? When did things get
hard for you? Well?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I was CEO for a year and I hired a
new CFO who installed a financial system that didn't work,
and we couldn't send bills for a couple of months,
and my father looked at me like I was crazy,
And fortunately we were able to turn it around in
a month or so. But you know, that was not
good and I learned a lot from that We're never
(21:45):
going to implement a financial system without pretesting and all
this stuff, and I have to have to pay attention
to details and not just go out and get business.
That was really scary, And it was also scary in
COVID when demand just dropped off a cliff in some
markets like China, and you know, we were able fortunately
to fall back on our balance sheet and you know,
(22:06):
hang in there. But it was also important to, you know,
as soon as I could come back to the official
people that I was, you know, at captain of the
ship and that square my shoulders and get back to
work and give people a lot of input from the
trust barometer that we did every month on different subjects
and help guide the clients. So I would say those
(22:27):
are the two scary times.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It's a little bit of a scary time in the
industry right now. And Melanie, that brings your kind of
specialty into focus, because if the devil's in the details,
I know those details are in the MSS, the MSA,
they're in the commercials and that's where the real business
is happening at our different agencies.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Yeah, it definitely is. I mean, think about the amount
of money right that is being poured into the industry
billions and billions and billions of dollars, and you know,
it's so important to really kind of have that level
of quality control, you know, you know paying you know
they always say the devil's in the details, and really understanding,
(23:14):
you know, specifically the interests that you're trying to protect.
So if you think about what a legal team in
house legal team is tasked with, right, you know, their
their leads will go to them and say, hey, we
want you to protect the interests of our global enterprise.
But if you don't understand the ins and outs of it,
if you don't understand the decisions that different departments are
(23:35):
making and why they're making those decisions, and if you
are not closely tied to you know, specifically kind of
what those three five year goals are and understanding all
of the different you know, influences that are going to
drive different decisions. What's a contract, right, you know, it's
(23:56):
it's basically a blank piece of paper that actually holds now. Wait,
but you know, as we've gotten into this time where
marketing budgets are being cut, you know, Richard brought that up.
COVID was a very very telling time you know, where
agencies were losing money left and right. You know, there's
some industries that actually thrived, but there are a lot
(24:18):
that didn't. And so it really took a lot to
figure out a way to reinvent agreements that was still
unlocking incremental value for brands so that they could actually
find ways to reinvest money back in their budgets because
they had to make their dollars stretch even further because
their budgets were going down. So I do spend a
(24:38):
lot of time thinking about, you know, the structure of agreements,
thinking about how to unlock incremental value. What do you know,
what is productivity? You know, what do efficiency targets look
like from an advertiser perspective, And it's not about just
saving the money, but it's how are we you know,
positioning them in a way to set them up for
(25:00):
future growth, but doing it in a way that is
going to be i'd say, really in line with and
realistic in terms of as we think about how agencies
are operating. Right, So it's it's again I'm to your point.
I'm behind the scenes leveraging different benchmarks, you know, across
(25:22):
different categories. Think about auto CpG retail media networks, you know,
start to do a lot of work in highly regulated categories.
But there's a through line there, right, and the through
line is how are we unlocking and extracting more value
on the advertising side and also making sure that on
you know, Richard's side, on the agency side, you know
(25:44):
that they are really creating deals that are going to
be mutually beneficial and protecting interests.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
We talked about your leap.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I do want to ask Richard about a quantum leap
that your network, the Edleman Network, has taken over the years.
Was it nineteen ninety five with the digitization, was it
the launch of the Trust Barometer twenty years ago? I'd
love to know that quantum leap for your network.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
So we had really four leaps. We had the one
when we started doing digital, we had another one when
we started doing creative. We had another one when the
trust barometer. So I would say now our hope is
that we do one based on AI and that we
have a product coming out called ARCHIAI that's going to
(26:34):
enable communicators to write more intelligent press releases and speeches
and do message points, you know, based on not just
their own knowledge, but you know what fifty companies have
already done that it's improved trust. So we're quite keen
(26:55):
to put this to advantage make our work better than
the other RGAI.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You heard it here first. So the name of my
dog is that the whole family is in on it, Richard,
the whole family, just to jump in.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It's while you have, you know, agencies that are building
out these like net newtic like this fantastic technology advertisers
behind the scenes right now, they're like, you know, they're
shaking in their seats if we think about kind of
AI governance and what that means for their business and
how to implement it, and just kind of some of
(27:30):
the different protections that need to be put in place,
you know, and to think about what happens from a
privacy perspective. All of this stuff isn't written right, you know,
we'd say that, you know, the rise of AI powered personalization,
that is actually the trend to watch right now. Everybody's
talking about it, but it's it's really from my perspective,
the work that I'm doing is how do you stay
(27:51):
ahead of that? How are you catching up? And you know,
how are you really kind of thinking through that in
a way that is going to make sure that advertisers
and agencies alike are protected in that because it unlocks,
you know, and unlocks a lot there, you know, just
from a risk perspective. But more than that, I say,
the benefit outweighs the risk one hundred percent. And that's
(28:12):
obviously where we're going.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
We can't have an episode, an advertising episode without talking
about our clients, perhaps the lifeblood or the reason why
we're in service. Talk to me about a client relationship,
special unique breakthrough client relationship, Richard, I'd love to hear
from you.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
Well, the one I've at worked on the longest as Unilever.
I started in the mid eighties and still on today
forty years later, and my work has moved from mostly
brand marketing, which I did in the eighties, to some
part marketing and some part advising top executives on geopolitics
(28:52):
or versus inclusion, sustainability, and so I love working on
that one. And I've also worked on the dairy business
for almost, I don't know, fifteen years, and I know
a lot of the farmers and I respect that again
because of family business, and just.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
To jump in around client relationships. I'll continue the conversation there,
I'd say on my side, they've been tough. You know,
you really have to build trust because if you think
about it, I'm working with some of the most seasoned,
tenured legal professionals in the industry. You know, if you
think about you know, the global General Council for X,
(29:32):
Y and Z Financial Institution, Cross Pharma, these people are smart,
smart smart. It just so happens that a lot of
the work that I do, I'm brought in from the
marketing side and from the media teams who are really
trying to figure out how to make sure those kind
of business points are integrated and memorialized into the agreements
because there's always been that disconnect that we've talked about.
(29:53):
But I'd say that building client relationships for me, it
was a slow start, but that is actually how I
was able kind of to define success for me. When
I heard one day from you know, general counsel they said,
we get it right. That for me was just truly
a defining moment, you know, just to start to become
(30:13):
a thought leader in that space and to start to
really gain the trust of these really amazing you know
very you know, reputable global brands are pumping a lot
of money into the industry. So that for me has
been truly a success in gaining that trust, but it
definitely took some time.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Yeah, that's a good word, from reputation to governance to trust,
which is something that Edelman has really put into the Zeigeist.
Final question, you both have worked with major rebranding and
reputation management in different capacities. What do you see as
the biggest challenges.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
For me, The biggest challenge is moving clients to appreciate
the importance of all stakeholders, not just Wall Street or
not just consumers. That employees, for example, have a very
important voice now in the future of the enterprise, and
that companies need to make money but also be important
(31:19):
in society and stand for change, and that especially when
you've had a crisis, to make it an opportunity to
change your stripes. And when United had that problem five
years ago of taking the passenger off the plane, they
fundamentally change their relationship not just with the customer but
(31:40):
also the gate agents and gave them a lot more
leeway to do what was necessary instead of having this
playbook from the nineteen fifties that just was like military
and you have to trust your people and that CEO
Oscar Munos United deserves a lot of credit for recognizing
the need for change.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, I love.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
I think that's so poignant with great companies look at
their employees as their first consumers.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Melanie, Yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Just going to say, as we think about a number
of legacy brands that are trying to keep up with
the market, that are really trying to go through you know,
massive marketing transformation, you know, reworking their data infrastructure, really
trying to figure out this world of digital I think
one of the biggest challenges that I've seen is managing
(32:31):
and mastering this blend of art and science, you know,
and it's kind of where it does creativity and strategy merge.
So it's really kind of how are brands crafting compelling
stories while using the data right to really kind of
understand how they can bring impact. And that's something that
we're seeing a lot of companies struggle with. Obviously, some
do it better than others, but there's certainly obviously a
(32:54):
lot of opportunities to build that brand story, find ways
to think outside of the box. What how are you
doing that while setting yourself up to kind of achieve
measurable results right, and how are you bringing in the
right partner ecosystem to help you do that? So I'd
say to Richard's point, it's certainly within the four walls
of your organization, but it's also how are you constructing
(33:15):
and really kind of, you know, architecting your partner ecosystem
to bring in the Edelmans of the world to help you.
Really kind of think through a lot of those narratives, Richard,
from a living legend to a future legend. One piece
of advice to close this out, get.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Knocked down ten, get up eleven. Just be your resilient
self and don't let any individual or client shake your confidence.
You've got a mission and go do it. I'm proud
of you.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Thank you so much. I'm going to take that with me.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Get knocked down ten and get up eleven. Richard and Melody,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
I'm Christina Pile. Thank you for listening. We'll be back
with another episode.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Before you know it.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
And for more information on the American Advertising Federation, go
to AAF dot org.
Hosts And Creators
Ross Martin
Hayley Romer
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