December 7, 2022 • 20 mins
As her instant bestseller The Visibility Mindset debuts, Bernice Chao, Co-Founder of Asians In Advertising, talks with the Hall of Famer Renetta McCann about what it takes to change the game from the inside out.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
There was that moment of do I embrace who I
am or do I just keep fitting in? Can I
make a difference out there or should I just stay quiet?
And that moment of shifting over to know we have
to do something, we have to say something, we can't
just be quietly uncomfortable. And that was really kind of
the impetus of creating agents and advertising was I would
(00:29):
love to have the space for myself. I would love
to have the space when I started, and so there
wasn't that space out there, so I was like, why
don't I just create it? And just seeing I'm walking
in a time period where there's no social media disability
to invite participation, the ability to use creativity to rope
people doesn't exist. But one of the avenues I had
(00:52):
for myself of providing that visibility and demonstrating that was
to simply bring excellence to my aft. Hello and Welcome
to the Future Legends of Advertising podcast featuring newly inducted
members of the American Advertising Federations Hall of Achievement and
(01:14):
those in the Hall of Fame. In this series, will
compare notes, gain insights, and explore the future of the
advertising industry who never before heard conversations between those who
are shaping it. You'll meet industry icons like Fosama st John,
Daisy Exposita, Uillah, Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders
from the most impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in
(01:37):
the world. We're your host Hailey Rohmer and Ross Martin.
Now let's meet the legend Runanda McCann, Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here. Bernice Chow, Welcome
to the podcast. Thank you for being here, Thanks for
having me. So, Bernice, you are an award win you
(02:00):
are a business leader. Most importantly, you're about to get
a very personal award, which is the Advertising Hall of
Achievement will be inducting you as a member of the
class of two thousand twenty two. And as that happens,
I'm wondering your granetta for you, if you could think
(02:20):
back to moments like that in your career where you
know you've taken the stage, a spotlight has been on
you and your incredible work, and maybe give Bernice some
advice about what it felt like to be recognized by
your peers and how she should think about that as
(02:41):
this happens for her. So, Bernice I have been recognized
by various organizations for my body of work and contributions
to the industry. And I have been on stage and
had that opportunity to address others, And what I'd say
to you is I tend to do that with a
mindset of service, right, So what can I say to
(03:05):
the members of the audience that will give them a
nugget or an insight or a way of thinking about
our industry or a way of thinking about how they
can participate that will help them develop in their career.
And I suspect, having you know, judged advertising Um Hall
(03:27):
of Achievement before, that you're there because of your contributions
and service too, and that because you have developed your
own relationship with members of the community. So I would
you know, just say to you think about that relationship
as you you know, go to do what you do
and say what you say. Well, I'll tell you it
(03:48):
was a pretty easy decision for the Council of Judges
when we were looking at the nomination of pernice Um,
not not just because of the work that she's done
in her day job, which is currently as the head
of Integrated Creative at Isn't Bas, but also because of
(04:12):
her contributions above and beyond that in the community, in
particular as co founder of Asians and Advertising, and so
I really wonder when you think about your own identity
in this industry, per nice and what you represent, how
do you want to be seen in this moment? How
do you want people to experience who you are? Wow,
(04:35):
that is a not a small question. And I also
want to say I wish I could bring you everywhere
as a hype man, because you're very great at that.
I want to just be remembered as someone who own
their identity. That was really hard when I was struggling
to write my thank you speech because we had that
prep meeting and I was like, I have to get
on this. I have to figure out what my story
(04:56):
is here and what I'm really thinking. And it was
really what I realized is the moment of action. It
was really hard. There was that moment of do I
embrace who I am or do I just keep fitting in?
Do I you know, can I make a difference out there?
Or should I just stay quiet? And that moment of
(05:16):
shifting over to know we have to do something, we
have to say something. We can't just be quietly uncomfortable,
and that was really kind of the impetus of creating
Asians and advertising was I would love to have the
space for myself. I would love to have the space
when I started, even now, and so there wasn't that
space out there. So I was like, why don't I
(05:37):
just create it and just see Let's just see what happens.
And I always tell the story about how we built
the website on a side. I built a site on
the Saturday, My co founder Jescelyn Lamb reviewed it on
the Sunday. We just put it out there on Monday
just to be Okay, let's see who cares. We got
six fifty sign ups out the gate, and we were
(06:00):
thinking just twenty people would care. And so this idea
of wow, there is a space that not only did
we think we needed, but everyone else was like, huh,
let's see what this is. And so it's been such
a wonderful journey. We've only been around for nearly a
year and a half now and kind of the community
has brought together the stories of vulnerability and we see
(06:22):
so much hope out of this community because there was
nothing like this before. So again, you know what to
Renata said, This isn't about me. This is about the community.
I was just kind of the facilitator and creating a hub.
But it's all them. Well, it's interesting you say so
first of all, Asians and advertising dot com is where
people should go. And there's not just a few people
(06:44):
following you or grateful for the opening you've created for
greater visibility. There's like an entire generation. And so when
you take that stage, I think there's a lot of
emotion around your success because of what you represent. And
you even have a book coming out called The Visibility Mindset.
(07:05):
And I just when we were thinking about what legend
to pair you with. The reason that Renetta was the
first choice is because when she started, there was nobody
that looked like her in this industry. And I wonder, RHETTA,
if you could go back to those days. You don't
want to go back to those days, but what was
(07:26):
that like? Do you hear some of yourself and your
own experience in what BERNIEE is saying. Absolutely, And so
I'll just correct the record just a little bit. There
were prominent African Americans or black folk in the industry
when I'm coming up. So you have a Tom Barrell
or you have a CHAIRL. H. Williams, you have a
(07:48):
vibrant agency ecosystem. I was, um one of the lone
members of being a black woman on the general market
side in the media just want and there were very
few of us and very far between. And so Bernice,
as you talk about what it means for visibility and
(08:13):
and would other people care and how to bring it together,
I think in some ways we were walking the same path.
It's just I'm walking at a time period where there's
no social media disability to invite participation, the ability to
use creativity to enroll people doesn't exist and could be
(08:35):
a limitation in my mind or whatever. But one of
the ways, UM, one of the avenues I had for
myself of of providing that visibility and demonstrating that was
to simply bring excellence to my craft. So really um
being seen as innovative in media or present in media.
(08:58):
And then eventually the voice came and I could use
that voice. UM. So I think we're on this. We
were on the same path, just with different tools made
possible by time. It's very interesting when we look at
your career and I think I speak for everybody at
the a F when I say this, Branda, is that
you truly embody the spirit of a growth mindset and
(09:20):
the commitment to never stop learning. Can you talk about
your commitment like because you're you're a legend too, is
it feels like you have so much more? Like it's
like I feel like you're at your halfway mark right
now because you're like setting up this whole other act.
When I started my career, it wasn't even possible to
be a CEO of a media enterprise, if only because
(09:43):
we were all departments of creative agencies, right, And so
I think, or I hope I would say one of
the things I hope people will take from my career
is creativity, innovation, reinvention, both of the brands that we're
(10:05):
working on but ourselves right. And one of the things
that's been ever present in my career is just simply changed.
Remember I started when there were only three networks, no cable,
and one syndicated show which was he haw Right. And
we are operating in an environment today that is vastly different.
(10:29):
And so you know, beyond the titles and the work,
it's that, um, we we have the possibility of invention
and reinvention and changed and actually I would tie it
to Bernice's work because I think that's what she you know,
(10:51):
and her partner for Asian Americans and advertising, that's what
they are now opening the door to that invention, that reinvention,
that change. It needs to happen in this moment in
time um for them to be seen and make their contributions. Well,
we're not a I just think your career is so fascinating.
(11:14):
I love the shift between the different even career paths,
and then the longevity of it. I know, I'm seventeen
years into my career and I don't see many role
models that have that same longevity. And even me, when
I was pregnant five years ago, I was like, are
(11:34):
they going to put me out? Am I done with
my Am I done? As a woman? Is my my
role as a woman in career and advertising over And
it's so commendable to see someone like you with this
legacy and then you're keep building more legacies. And so
I just want to say, I really am so humbled
by saying that, and it's such an inspiration for my
(11:56):
own career to know that there isn't a time limit,
there isn't a point where you can stop. Well to
that point, it's really clear that you're both not stopping
anytime soon. And also, Bernie, you and I have talked
about how being inducted into Advertising Hall of Achievement is
not really a victory lap it's as much as it
is a responsibility and and empowerment, you know, to actually
(12:18):
continue on the path through affect and change. Let me
ask you both, what would you like to change most
in our industry? You know, I would be read miss
if I didn't offer commentary on the fact that for
myself personally, and I think for the betterment of our industry,
(12:40):
I would like to see more black talent in more
leadership roles across our industry. And I want to be specific.
That's not to the exclusion of any other identities or
talent um. But when I started in the industry, it
was about four and a half five black talent, and
(13:05):
it's still dangerously close to that percentage. Maybe it's closer
to six or seven percent. And I just fundamentally believe
that the creativity, that the contributions that black talent can
make two storytelling and connection and community are highly valuable.
(13:28):
So I would be read miss if I if I
didn't state my longing to see more of that come
to fruition for me. I mean, the purpose of Asians
and advertising isn't just to get Asians there. Yes, it's
on a community level, but it's really if there were
more representation they're creating more safe spaces, will create more
(13:51):
inclusion down the whole, Like in the room. I have
experienced my career with very little representation in the creative vertical.
They'll be there's diversity, and it's usually at the lower
levels and it's usually not increative. And so I would
love to see that in the creative vertical space, particularly
even when I have my mentors who are black or
(14:14):
you know, our different Asian brown like, there is a
sense of community. We understand the struggle and so it
doesn't have to be a one to one in terms
of leadership. But I just want to see more just
to create the safe spaces, to make the room more inclusive,
so that people that feel different feel like they have
a space. One of the great things about being part
(14:35):
of the American Advertising Federation peces that you you do
get access to the great leaders of our industry, Renetta
being one of them. Do you have a question you'd
like to ask her, Yes, I'm so interested about the
career shift, how you decide to go back to school,
how you saw the need here. So a little bit
of history, I'll try to make it short. Um, I
(14:57):
grew up in the LEO Brenette system, and I'm still
I'm only, you know, working two offices. But I grew
up in the LEO ber Nett system and there was
an inherent, let's call it contract or agreement that if
you went there and you did well, your career would
be taken care of. And that was absolutely true for me.
(15:18):
And so what I learned about leadership I learned through
practice of craft and running clients and running teams, et cetera.
But as I get into this world of being a
CEO and let's call it the responsibilities of leadership, I
realized that there were probably some of the classical learnings
(15:39):
around how you're designing organizations or how you're building teams.
There were just things that my work experience couldn't give me.
And so what I decided to do was go back
to school and specifically study what are the elements that
drive learning and change in side of organizations? Right not
(16:03):
with large out in the world. And and one of
the other things I'll say, Bernice, is that you know,
as a CEO, every CEO says and I understand why
they say that talent is our top priority. And I
was a talent focus CEO, and on any given day
I had to admit that the operating statement um, running product,
(16:27):
dealing with client client contracts, you know, answering to management,
et cetera. Even I could only get you know, on
a good day, might only get talented to the number
five slot, right, And so what I was really curious
about is if and how that relationship could change and
(16:47):
how would you do that? And then and I'll stop
in a minute. But also as I began to do
that work, what I think, or what I think now
is that organizations are in relationship of people, which is
different than even employees are talent, And that if the
(17:08):
official things are going to happen in the world for
both shareholders and stakeholders, how do organizations and people come
together in order to drive things forward that need to
be in the world. And so post that, you see
me in the CTO space, you see me in the
d e I space. You see me in the parts
of the space where the people are showing up because
(17:32):
I'm trying to figure out how that people, organization connect
can go. What do you see as the role of
creativity itself in fostering the community we need and in
shaping or reshaping the organizations that we have. So I
(17:54):
teach at l m U. I'm a professor there and creativity,
and I get a lot of students in the cross
words of do I want to go into advertising, but
I want to change the world. I want to work
in nonprofit or maybe I want to work in film
to tell authentic stories, and I always mentioned you could
tell those in advertising. There's so many opportunities to work
(18:17):
with a brand to get a message out there, a
beautiful message that can tell the story in a way
that feels really genuine and reach a huge audience. And
so one of the commercials that I'm thinking of was recent.
It was called the Name. It was by Procter and
Gamble and R G A. I didn't work on this,
but it was a beautiful commercial that when I saw it.
(18:38):
And even though my name is Bernie, I have many
friends who have their ethnic name even though they're American
or non American. But one of the things that happens
to Asian Americans when we come to this country, or
even my parents come to this country, we shed our
names because it is seen as we can't fit in
with this name, we can't be accepted with this name,
(18:59):
we be seen as foreign. And so this name in
this commercial really resonated with me because I was like,
why don't we tell the story sooner? It's like something
I grew up with my childhood and experiencing and it
was so much shameful. And I think the black community
has done such a great job, which is taking back
their names and taking back their origins and just being like, hey,
(19:23):
we're proud. And I think that is something that opportunities
that brands can have to do this. It's just really wonderful.
And I really hope you know that whole team was
diverse and you needed Asian people to tell that story.
And so I'm getting a little emotional because we never
had this, but we need the creatives there to tell
(19:46):
the story absolutely, and I I just want to Etholo
reinforce what you say. It's it's the creativity, it's the storytelling.
It's allowing people to be seen, it's in some ways
helping people understand that they're not alone. And I think
(20:07):
that's the work that you in particular, but your generation
can continue to reinforce because I think that needs to
be ever present. On behalf of my art and a
F and my co rost Hailey, we we love and
appreciate you so much and we'll see you all soon
and thank you for inspiring us. All. Well, that doesn't
(20:30):
for this episode of the Future Legends of Advertising podcast
arm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Rohmer, and thank you
for listening. We'll be back with another episode before you
know it. And for more information on the American Advertising Federation,
go to a a F dot org
There was that moment of do I embrace who I
am or do I just keep fitting in? Can I
make a difference out there or should I just stay quiet?
And that moment of shifting over to know we have
to do something, we have to say something, we can't
just be quietly uncomfortable. And that was really kind of
the impetus of creating agents and advertising was I would
(00:29):
love to have the space for myself. I would love
to have the space when I started, and so there
wasn't that space out there, so I was like, why
don't I just create it? And just seeing I'm walking
in a time period where there's no social media disability
to invite participation, the ability to use creativity to rope
people doesn't exist. But one of the avenues I had
(00:52):
for myself of providing that visibility and demonstrating that was
to simply bring excellence to my aft. Hello and Welcome
to the Future Legends of Advertising podcast featuring newly inducted
members of the American Advertising Federations Hall of Achievement and
(01:14):
those in the Hall of Fame. In this series, will
compare notes, gain insights, and explore the future of the
advertising industry who never before heard conversations between those who
are shaping it. You'll meet industry icons like Fosama st John,
Daisy Exposita, Uillah, Deborah Wall, and future ones, including leaders
from the most impactful brands, agencies, and media platforms in
(01:37):
the world. We're your host Hailey Rohmer and Ross Martin.
Now let's meet the legend Runanda McCann, Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for being here. Bernice Chow, Welcome
to the podcast. Thank you for being here, Thanks for
having me. So, Bernice, you are an award win you
(02:00):
are a business leader. Most importantly, you're about to get
a very personal award, which is the Advertising Hall of
Achievement will be inducting you as a member of the
class of two thousand twenty two. And as that happens,
I'm wondering your granetta for you, if you could think
(02:20):
back to moments like that in your career where you
know you've taken the stage, a spotlight has been on
you and your incredible work, and maybe give Bernice some
advice about what it felt like to be recognized by
your peers and how she should think about that as
(02:41):
this happens for her. So, Bernice I have been recognized
by various organizations for my body of work and contributions
to the industry. And I have been on stage and
had that opportunity to address others, And what I'd say
to you is I tend to do that with a
mindset of service, right, So what can I say to
(03:05):
the members of the audience that will give them a
nugget or an insight or a way of thinking about
our industry or a way of thinking about how they
can participate that will help them develop in their career.
And I suspect, having you know, judged advertising Um Hall
(03:27):
of Achievement before, that you're there because of your contributions
and service too, and that because you have developed your
own relationship with members of the community. So I would
you know, just say to you think about that relationship
as you you know, go to do what you do
and say what you say. Well, I'll tell you it
(03:48):
was a pretty easy decision for the Council of Judges
when we were looking at the nomination of pernice Um,
not not just because of the work that she's done
in her day job, which is currently as the head
of Integrated Creative at Isn't Bas, but also because of
(04:12):
her contributions above and beyond that in the community, in
particular as co founder of Asians and Advertising, and so
I really wonder when you think about your own identity
in this industry, per nice and what you represent, how
do you want to be seen in this moment? How
do you want people to experience who you are? Wow,
(04:35):
that is a not a small question. And I also
want to say I wish I could bring you everywhere
as a hype man, because you're very great at that.
I want to just be remembered as someone who own
their identity. That was really hard when I was struggling
to write my thank you speech because we had that
prep meeting and I was like, I have to get
on this. I have to figure out what my story
(04:56):
is here and what I'm really thinking. And it was
really what I realized is the moment of action. It
was really hard. There was that moment of do I
embrace who I am or do I just keep fitting in?
Do I you know, can I make a difference out there?
Or should I just stay quiet? And that moment of
(05:16):
shifting over to know we have to do something, we
have to say something. We can't just be quietly uncomfortable,
and that was really kind of the impetus of creating
Asians and advertising was I would love to have the
space for myself. I would love to have the space
when I started, even now, and so there wasn't that
space out there. So I was like, why don't I
(05:37):
just create it and just see Let's just see what happens.
And I always tell the story about how we built
the website on a side. I built a site on
the Saturday, My co founder Jescelyn Lamb reviewed it on
the Sunday. We just put it out there on Monday
just to be Okay, let's see who cares. We got
six fifty sign ups out the gate, and we were
(06:00):
thinking just twenty people would care. And so this idea
of wow, there is a space that not only did
we think we needed, but everyone else was like, huh,
let's see what this is. And so it's been such
a wonderful journey. We've only been around for nearly a
year and a half now and kind of the community
has brought together the stories of vulnerability and we see
(06:22):
so much hope out of this community because there was
nothing like this before. So again, you know what to
Renata said, This isn't about me. This is about the community.
I was just kind of the facilitator and creating a hub.
But it's all them. Well, it's interesting you say so
first of all, Asians and advertising dot com is where
people should go. And there's not just a few people
(06:44):
following you or grateful for the opening you've created for
greater visibility. There's like an entire generation. And so when
you take that stage, I think there's a lot of
emotion around your success because of what you represent. And
you even have a book coming out called The Visibility Mindset.
(07:05):
And I just when we were thinking about what legend
to pair you with. The reason that Renetta was the
first choice is because when she started, there was nobody
that looked like her in this industry. And I wonder, RHETTA,
if you could go back to those days. You don't
want to go back to those days, but what was
(07:26):
that like? Do you hear some of yourself and your
own experience in what BERNIEE is saying. Absolutely, And so
I'll just correct the record just a little bit. There
were prominent African Americans or black folk in the industry
when I'm coming up. So you have a Tom Barrell
or you have a CHAIRL. H. Williams, you have a
(07:48):
vibrant agency ecosystem. I was, um one of the lone
members of being a black woman on the general market
side in the media just want and there were very
few of us and very far between. And so Bernice,
as you talk about what it means for visibility and
(08:13):
and would other people care and how to bring it together,
I think in some ways we were walking the same path.
It's just I'm walking at a time period where there's
no social media disability to invite participation, the ability to
use creativity to enroll people doesn't exist and could be
(08:35):
a limitation in my mind or whatever. But one of
the ways, UM, one of the avenues I had for
myself of of providing that visibility and demonstrating that was
to simply bring excellence to my craft. So really um
being seen as innovative in media or present in media.
(08:58):
And then eventually the voice came and I could use
that voice. UM. So I think we're on this. We
were on the same path, just with different tools made
possible by time. It's very interesting when we look at
your career and I think I speak for everybody at
the a F when I say this, Branda, is that
you truly embody the spirit of a growth mindset and
(09:20):
the commitment to never stop learning. Can you talk about
your commitment like because you're you're a legend too, is
it feels like you have so much more? Like it's
like I feel like you're at your halfway mark right
now because you're like setting up this whole other act.
When I started my career, it wasn't even possible to
be a CEO of a media enterprise, if only because
(09:43):
we were all departments of creative agencies, right, And so
I think, or I hope I would say one of
the things I hope people will take from my career
is creativity, innovation, reinvention, both of the brands that we're
(10:05):
working on but ourselves right. And one of the things
that's been ever present in my career is just simply changed.
Remember I started when there were only three networks, no cable,
and one syndicated show which was he haw Right. And
we are operating in an environment today that is vastly different.
(10:29):
And so you know, beyond the titles and the work,
it's that, um, we we have the possibility of invention
and reinvention and changed and actually I would tie it
to Bernice's work because I think that's what she you know,
(10:51):
and her partner for Asian Americans and advertising, that's what
they are now opening the door to that invention, that reinvention,
that change. It needs to happen in this moment in
time um for them to be seen and make their contributions. Well,
we're not a I just think your career is so fascinating.
(11:14):
I love the shift between the different even career paths,
and then the longevity of it. I know, I'm seventeen
years into my career and I don't see many role
models that have that same longevity. And even me, when
I was pregnant five years ago, I was like, are
(11:34):
they going to put me out? Am I done with
my Am I done? As a woman? Is my my
role as a woman in career and advertising over And
it's so commendable to see someone like you with this
legacy and then you're keep building more legacies. And so
I just want to say, I really am so humbled
by saying that, and it's such an inspiration for my
(11:56):
own career to know that there isn't a time limit,
there isn't a point where you can stop. Well to
that point, it's really clear that you're both not stopping
anytime soon. And also, Bernie, you and I have talked
about how being inducted into Advertising Hall of Achievement is
not really a victory lap it's as much as it
is a responsibility and and empowerment, you know, to actually
(12:18):
continue on the path through affect and change. Let me
ask you both, what would you like to change most
in our industry? You know, I would be read miss
if I didn't offer commentary on the fact that for
myself personally, and I think for the betterment of our industry,
(12:40):
I would like to see more black talent in more
leadership roles across our industry. And I want to be specific.
That's not to the exclusion of any other identities or
talent um. But when I started in the industry, it
was about four and a half five black talent, and
(13:05):
it's still dangerously close to that percentage. Maybe it's closer
to six or seven percent. And I just fundamentally believe
that the creativity, that the contributions that black talent can
make two storytelling and connection and community are highly valuable.
(13:28):
So I would be read miss if I if I
didn't state my longing to see more of that come
to fruition for me. I mean, the purpose of Asians
and advertising isn't just to get Asians there. Yes, it's
on a community level, but it's really if there were
more representation they're creating more safe spaces, will create more
(13:51):
inclusion down the whole, Like in the room. I have
experienced my career with very little representation in the creative vertical.
They'll be there's diversity, and it's usually at the lower
levels and it's usually not increative. And so I would
love to see that in the creative vertical space, particularly
even when I have my mentors who are black or
(14:14):
you know, our different Asian brown like, there is a
sense of community. We understand the struggle and so it
doesn't have to be a one to one in terms
of leadership. But I just want to see more just
to create the safe spaces, to make the room more inclusive,
so that people that feel different feel like they have
a space. One of the great things about being part
(14:35):
of the American Advertising Federation peces that you you do
get access to the great leaders of our industry, Renetta
being one of them. Do you have a question you'd
like to ask her, Yes, I'm so interested about the
career shift, how you decide to go back to school,
how you saw the need here. So a little bit
of history, I'll try to make it short. Um, I
(14:57):
grew up in the LEO Brenette system, and I'm still
I'm only, you know, working two offices. But I grew
up in the LEO ber Nett system and there was
an inherent, let's call it contract or agreement that if
you went there and you did well, your career would
be taken care of. And that was absolutely true for me.
(15:18):
And so what I learned about leadership I learned through
practice of craft and running clients and running teams, et cetera.
But as I get into this world of being a
CEO and let's call it the responsibilities of leadership, I
realized that there were probably some of the classical learnings
(15:39):
around how you're designing organizations or how you're building teams.
There were just things that my work experience couldn't give me.
And so what I decided to do was go back
to school and specifically study what are the elements that
drive learning and change in side of organizations? Right not
(16:03):
with large out in the world. And and one of
the other things I'll say, Bernice, is that you know,
as a CEO, every CEO says and I understand why
they say that talent is our top priority. And I
was a talent focus CEO, and on any given day
I had to admit that the operating statement um, running product,
(16:27):
dealing with client client contracts, you know, answering to management,
et cetera. Even I could only get you know, on
a good day, might only get talented to the number
five slot, right, And so what I was really curious
about is if and how that relationship could change and
(16:47):
how would you do that? And then and I'll stop
in a minute. But also as I began to do
that work, what I think, or what I think now
is that organizations are in relationship of people, which is
different than even employees are talent, And that if the
(17:08):
official things are going to happen in the world for
both shareholders and stakeholders, how do organizations and people come
together in order to drive things forward that need to
be in the world. And so post that, you see
me in the CTO space, you see me in the
d e I space. You see me in the parts
of the space where the people are showing up because
(17:32):
I'm trying to figure out how that people, organization connect
can go. What do you see as the role of
creativity itself in fostering the community we need and in
shaping or reshaping the organizations that we have. So I
(17:54):
teach at l m U. I'm a professor there and creativity,
and I get a lot of students in the cross
words of do I want to go into advertising, but
I want to change the world. I want to work
in nonprofit or maybe I want to work in film
to tell authentic stories, and I always mentioned you could
tell those in advertising. There's so many opportunities to work
(18:17):
with a brand to get a message out there, a
beautiful message that can tell the story in a way
that feels really genuine and reach a huge audience. And
so one of the commercials that I'm thinking of was recent.
It was called the Name. It was by Procter and
Gamble and R G A. I didn't work on this,
but it was a beautiful commercial that when I saw it.
(18:38):
And even though my name is Bernie, I have many
friends who have their ethnic name even though they're American
or non American. But one of the things that happens
to Asian Americans when we come to this country, or
even my parents come to this country, we shed our
names because it is seen as we can't fit in
with this name, we can't be accepted with this name,
(18:59):
we be seen as foreign. And so this name in
this commercial really resonated with me because I was like,
why don't we tell the story sooner? It's like something
I grew up with my childhood and experiencing and it
was so much shameful. And I think the black community
has done such a great job, which is taking back
their names and taking back their origins and just being like, hey,
(19:23):
we're proud. And I think that is something that opportunities
that brands can have to do this. It's just really wonderful.
And I really hope you know that whole team was
diverse and you needed Asian people to tell that story.
And so I'm getting a little emotional because we never
had this, but we need the creatives there to tell
(19:46):
the story absolutely, and I I just want to Etholo
reinforce what you say. It's it's the creativity, it's the storytelling.
It's allowing people to be seen, it's in some ways
helping people understand that they're not alone. And I think
(20:07):
that's the work that you in particular, but your generation
can continue to reinforce because I think that needs to
be ever present. On behalf of my art and a
F and my co rost Hailey, we we love and
appreciate you so much and we'll see you all soon
and thank you for inspiring us. All. Well, that doesn't
(20:30):
for this episode of the Future Legends of Advertising podcast
arm Ross Martin and I'm Hailey Rohmer, and thank you
for listening. We'll be back with another episode before you
know it. And for more information on the American Advertising Federation,
go to a a F dot org
Hosts And Creators
Ross Martin
Hayley Romer
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