October 6, 2020 • 30 mins
K-Pop producer and songwriter David Amber gives Esther the inside view from the world of K-pop, currently one of the most popular music genres in the world. David breaks down the worldwide appeal of K-Pop, why it's more than just a trend, how its popularity has introduced millions to Korean culture, and how he became a chart topping producer of the genre as a white American man who speaks very little Korean.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
I think what the K pop agencies and the artists
do a really good job of is like kind of
creating this like really immersive experience where it's not just
about one thing. It's not just about the music, it's
not just about the videos, it's not just about the
fan interactions, like it's not just about the backstories. But
all these things combined create this cultural phenomenon that's it's
(00:24):
super powerful and effective, and it connects in ways that
maybe American pop or European pop like doesn't doesn't really do.
Welcome to get down with Kay Town. I'm your host
esther Choy. So how on earth did K pop become
a global phenomenon from Kingdom style by size several K
(00:46):
pop bands such as BTS, Scott seven XO, Black Pink
hitting number one on billboards constantly. K pop stardom is unreal.
What's really fascinating is that none of this is accidental.
K pop has been the international face of South Korea
and really backed by the government. It is an extremely disciplined,
(01:06):
organized and controlled production system. And I don't really don't
think that there will ever be a straight answer to
this question of how K pop became k pop there's
so many layers and facets of K pop and definitely
we can always try to understand this and answer some questions.
And to help me do that, today I have a
(01:27):
really good friend of mine joining us to talk all
things K pop. David Amber, Welcome to the show having me.
Dave is a music producer, songwriter, and composer based out
of l A, originally from New York though, because that's
how we met. You run and operate your own full
(01:47):
service music production company. And for our listeners who might
not know what this means, including me, what does this mean? Like,
what does it mean to operate your whole full service
music production company? So for me and the people that
I work with, were like the beginning of the production
process because generally, um, you know, we we take the
(02:11):
song from the ground up. Me as the producer, songwriters,
writing songs, singers has kind of developed demo singers, putting
all these things together. Um, we create the song as
far as we can take it before we pass it
along to the music labels, who then give the songs
to the artists, promote the artists, promote the songs, create
(02:32):
the music videos through the choreography. It's the whole process.
It's the whole process. You're the start of it. We're well,
I mean as far as the from the musical process. Obviously,
the labels are kind of like our clients, UM, but
we create the music from the ground up. And yeah,
you've worked with both major labels and independent artists, UM
(02:55):
in the US and abroad specifically obviously the in pop world,
meaning K pop and J pop. Did can you name
a few artists that you work with, like in K pop?
That's huge? Sure? Yeah, I worked with Twice, who's a
big girl group XO girlfriend G friend. UM. Recently one
(03:17):
of your songs made the number one hit list. Which
song is that? Well? Last year I had a song
called yes or Yes that came out with Twice that
went it was it was they called a perfect all
kill where it hits number one on all the South
Korean charts that simultaneously. Um. So that was pretty exciting,
super exciting. What was your favorite artists that you worked with?
(03:38):
You think that your favorite song? Do you have one?
Really hard to say. They're all that kind of my babies, UM.
And working with the artists, I mean, obviously the artists,
I'll bring their kind of perspective of the songs, and
depending on who the artist is, they kind of had
their own twist. So that's kind of like the cool
thing like when we, you know, kind of perform a
(04:00):
song one way and an artist takes it and they
kind of like make it their own, their own personality. Yeah,
and and and it's like, you know, sometimes it takes
it to a place that I never even thought that,
you know, it could go. And particularly I always like
the group SF nine. Um, they're a boy group, and
I'm always a big fan. I'm a big fan of
(04:20):
their vocal performances, and they've always done a great job
with the songs I've given them. So so what makes
their vocal so special? I don't know. I mean, everybody's special, right,
but I don't want to say like they're special and
somebody else's in special just for like I don't know
something about. Um. You know, I had a song with
them that just came out recently. Um, what's a song called.
(04:40):
It's called Lulu La La, And they you know, we
wrote some raps for the verses, and you know, we
wrote it a certain way, and when I heard the
final it was just so quirky and weird, so different
and so different from the way that like we had
imagined it that like it was just it was really
cool for me. I was a fan of what they did.
(05:02):
You know, that's great. So like that's real talent right there. Yeah,
I think so, yeah, I have to ask this is
maybe the most like blunt and obvious question. But I
don't think I've ever asked you this. So Dave is
not Korean and everyone's like what, so, Dave, you are
a white American man and this is a little bit
(05:24):
mind boggling because how did you get into k pop? Why?
Kee pop? And it's like it's kind of crazy, right
because you would think that all these writers of this,
these kay pop music, it would be a Korean person,
but it's not like that at all. Can you talk
about this a little bit, like I'm sure, do you
get asked this, like what has that been? Like? Sure? Yeah,
(05:46):
I mean, you know, I think still probably the majority
of writers that working K pop are Korean. Um, you know,
maybe there's I don't know, foreign writers either from your
up or North America, you know, other places in Japan.
For me personally, like I don't know, I've always kind
(06:06):
of like tangentially. Like I mean, like I've known I've
been like kind of exposed to K pop since I
don't know when I was in college early two thousand's okay,
but it's not like you grew up with these K
pop artists, Like you didn't grow up with like h
O T or SCS or no. But I was aware
of them. You were aware. Yeah, I was aware of
(06:27):
them and like you know, and you really liked it
from the from sre so like we would go to
likee Ban with my Korean friends, like and like they
would be singing these songs and there was a lot
of them, Like I mean, I still remember a lot
of these songs like one Time and oh I Love
one Time, like a lot of the ballads too from
that time. If I hear them now, it's like very nostalgic.
(06:48):
So like I've always kind of even if I wasn't
like actively listening, Yeah, I was always kind of being
exposed to it and influenced by that. I mean, if
you were in Philadelphia because there was a big crean scene, sure, yeah,
so you think that that kind of shaped your way
of like, okay, like K pop, I like it and yeah,
and just my way of like kind of the way
I go about making music, and it all kind of
(07:09):
rubs off on you. I'm curious how you got started
into dabbling into K pop because you weren't always obviously
writing like K pop music from the start of your
career kind of became that kind of progressed later. Yeah, well,
actually what happened was when I started like really professionally
writing songs, because I started doing commercials when I first
(07:30):
started like professionally, remember, yeah, so, and that's I mean,
that's something I love doing, like I love composing. But
when I started writing songs and sending them out to
like different you know, publishers and people that could help
me get the songs exposed. Um. I had sent some
songs to Um, a Korean publisher, and he had gotten
(07:52):
in touch with me, and he was like, yo, your
stuff like it fits like maybe it's it's raw and
it's like you know, so when you were sending these
songs out to these producers, was it complete songs like
pop songs? Yeah, so it was pops. It's not like, oh,
I'm going to send these this K pop song to
this Maybe it wasn't like that. I was just writing songs,
(08:13):
writing songs like trying to get my chops up, like
you know, so I would just send stuff out and
see what the reaction would be. And he was one
of the people that like contacted me, and he was
like this works for the K pop market, and like,
you know, this is probably two thousand eleven. So like
that that next wave of K pop was starting to
(08:35):
come in. You know, you had the Girl's Generation super
junior kind of all those sm artists. Big Bang was
still huge. It was before Gingham style, but there was
still like a lot of buzz. Yeah, So like I was,
I was interested when he said that. It made me
interested in like, oh, maybe this is something that I
can pursue. Yeah, yeah, And then from there it kind
(08:57):
of was history. Like you started writing specifically for like
Asian pop culture. Not only you right for K pop music,
you write like J pop as well well. J pop.
I mean, like I listened to J pop when I
was a kid, like actively actively. Yeah, Like you speak Japanese,
you like lived in Japan for a bit. Yeah, so
like that was that was something else. But with with
(09:20):
K pop particularly and getting involved in that world, it
was like kind of a slow build. So even from there.
It's not like I dove in right after that. But
once I started listening to more music and actively listening,
probably like two thousand eleven, like my interest started to build,
So then I started trying to push more into it.
(09:41):
Got it. Is there a difference between J pop and
kee pop, like the way the music is? Yeah, for sure.
What would you say like the biggest differences. I think
like sonically for me as a producer, K pop isn't
isn't so especially these days, like K pop is more
on like the cutting tip, you know, like the cutting
edge of of sonically all the newest sounds like they're
(10:06):
very trend conscious k pop. Yeah, So it's like in
that sense that's what helps it be so global, because
they're they're forward thinking, um in terms of like using
the latest sounds like you know that kind of stuff,
whereas J pop they kind of have their own thing
going on. It's its own category of music. Yeah, it's
(10:26):
more like underground. Um, it depends. I mean obviously broadly speaking,
like with these Japanese idol groups, it's like kind of
more I want to say, more kind of retro sounding,
you know. Um, they use a lot of like traditional instruments,
like it's more of like like maybe disco pop or
something like that, as opposed to k pop, which is
(10:48):
generally it's pretty modern. I want to talk about the
formulation of a Korean pop song, right, like, how do
you do you know what's going to be a hit
before you Right? This means like say you're in the
(11:10):
process of writing a song, you write in and you're like,
this is like definitely going to be a hit, Like
do you know? Is that a weird question? Really? I mean,
like I certainly feel good about certain songs when I'm
like I'm like this is this is fire, Like this
is amazing. There must be a formula to it, is what.
I don't think, so I really don't. I mean, like,
you know, you might do something that you think is
(11:30):
like the bomb, like this is the best thing I've
ever done, and then you send it out and it's
like crickets, you know, and that has happened to you
oh yeah many times. Um, And then they'll be songs
where I'm like this is cool, like this isn't like
my favorite song, and then it'll get picked up right away.
So like for me, it'd be nice if there was
(11:51):
some kind of formula, like there is no formula, yeah,
because I mean, you know, sounds change, it depends who's
listening to it. It's just I'm trying to get into
your your musical break. So I think so a lot
of times it's like either there's two ways to start.
It's like either a label or a publisher requests some
(12:11):
certain kind of song, Like they say, we're looking for
songs for this artist, can you do something for them?
So that sometimes it's like artists specific. Yeah, a lot
of times it's artists right, um, and so we so
like in that situation, it's like you have a starting point.
But other times, and sometimes the songs that have the
(12:32):
most success are just the ones where you're just like,
let's write a song, and you know, as long as
you're kind of like keeping the parameters in mind of
what you're doing, those can be the most fun. What
do you think makes ke pop song different than your
standard pops? On? Like? Why is why do you think
ke pop became ke pop? Like it's just it's crazy, right,
(12:54):
Like it is fandom of keep hop. It's like the
wrath of your like K pop fans. Yeah, they're rabbit man.
It's like it's pretty amazing. I was saying that. I
went to that US show on Friday, the showcase, and
like just can you can you tell our listeners what? Oh? Sure? Yeah,
they're they're kind of a newer K pop girl group.
(13:15):
They're like the sister group of Twice, which is they're
you know, they're a massive K pop group under the
j y P label, So they're kind of new, but
they've gotten They've had a lot of success in a
very short time. So we went to their showcase at
l A Live the other night and just being around
the fans, like everything that the girls say, it's like
(13:37):
people are going nuts. It's like what, for example, can
you can you example that you were? Like what the
I'm trying to remember even off the top of my head.
It was just like basic kind of just like the
energy is different. The energy is it's just like up
to eleven, like it's I don't And you know. The
another fascinating thing is like a lot of these fans
(13:57):
are not Korean. It's a mix. It's a mix of
every you look around, it's it's every ethnicities, it's it's
truly a global thing, which is I think that's so great.
I mean, like kkon you spoke at. Kon Kekan is
basically like a Korean conference where it's like an annual
Korean wave convention that it's that's held all over the
(14:20):
world and it started here in l A. But it's
like a fan celebration of Korean culture and mostly music. Um,
I've done some food stuff for Kekon, which I've so
I've seen it. It's like insane, Yeah, it's insane. You
see like these girls that are dressed like k pop
(14:41):
stars and none of these girls are Korean and they're
all like doing the dance moves, they're singing to the lyrics,
are speaking Korean? Is that? I mean? For me, I'm
just mind blown. What is going on? It's so cool,
it's so cool, and I'm just I'm just trying to
understand like why k pop, Like are the songs really
not different? Is it? What is it? I don't know
(15:03):
if it's the cleaning process, like what do you think?
I don't know, it's like there, I mean, it's the
whole thing. Really. I mean, I think what the K
pop agencies and the artists do a really good job
of is like kind of creating this like really immersive
experience where it's not just about one thing. It's not
just about the music, it's not just about the videos,
(15:24):
it's not just about the fan interactions, like it's not
just about the backstories. But all these things combined create
this cultural phenomenon that's it's super powerful and effective, and
it connects in ways that maybe American pop or European
pop like doesn't doesn't really do. And for certain people
(15:45):
that it really connects with, it's like it creates this
kind of like super dedicated fan and I think it's
so crazy. Yeah, it's hard to put it's hard to
like pinpoint exactly what it is, but I can say that,
you know, in my opinion, they're they're doing something that
nobody you know, the companies and the artists are doing
something that nobody else is doing. They've really tapped into something.
(16:07):
It's like very powerful that goes beyond just entertainment. It
goes Yeah, obviously it's like very cultural and obviously for
Korea it's just been insane. I mean, I feel like
K pop really shape the way of people understanding what
Korean culture is about. I think so yeah. I mean
(16:28):
I think for a lot of people it's probably there
their first and main exposure to Korean culture a lot, right, Like,
especially in different parts of the world. I mean, we're
in America, so it's it's especially New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia,
these big cities that have you know, there's a lot
of Korean Americans, you know, Koreatown in l A. It's
(16:49):
like it's this cultural hub. But a lot of places
don't have that. So this is their main exposure to
Korean culture, at least their first exposure. Yeah, for sure,
I know that you speak a little bit of Korean,
but when you're writing these songs, like how did it
do you write your write the lyrics? Like, if you
(17:10):
don't speak the language fluently, how is this song? Well,
we don't write the lyrics. We don't we write English lyrics, okay,
And like so I mean, you know we write we
write a song in English, and generally the way that
it works is we'll write a song in English, we'll
send it to a label and if they decide that
(17:32):
they want to use the song, then they'll hire a
Korean lyricist to either adapt the song or sometimes they'll
just change change the lyrics completely. Yeah, And I think
does that matter to you as like as an artist, Well,
I'm you know, so, like my main skill is production,
(17:53):
So like for me, it's cool because like the music
doesn't really change, you know what I mean. But no,
I don't think so. I think it's it's collaborative, and
I think it's a cool way for non Koreans and
Koreans to be able to work together and create something
cool and different. Should love. I think maybe that's why
you've been so successful in creating these K pop songs
because you're not Korean. Because sometimes if you're exposed to
(18:16):
something like too much, you get so used to it
that it's like one way, right, But you're I guess
as an artist, like or as a songwriter, you're not
just thinking about create. It's not what you're exposed to
and create. K pop songs are kind of a mix
of all different genres, right right. It's not just like
one type of pop music. It's like pulling different types
(18:38):
of music into one. There's a lot of variety. Yeah,
and you have to kind of no, no, your ship
basically in terms of music, you must be like really
special or something like. That's not true. But like, no,
I think it is a cool thing that like and
like I've talked to a lot of Korean songwriters and
producers and stuff, and there's a lot of musical knowledge there.
(19:01):
It's not like Korean writers only listen to k pop,
Like they listen to everything. They listen to everything, and
it's like the same thing that I try to do.
It's like I want to listen to everything and take
sources from all over the place. So when we're able
to collaborate and bring these different perspectives, like culturally, you know,
because I'm from New Jersey, you know, so it's so
(19:22):
much different than from somebody who's from like you know,
post on her soul and we can like get on
Skype write a song together, and it's like just this
kind of cross And do you do that, you like,
collaborate with and writer you guys are like writing music altogether. Yeah,
I mean it depends in the situation. Situations Sometimes it's like,
(19:43):
you know, I make a track, I send it um
and then they'll do their thing. But it's it's always
like and it's it's actually sometimes fun. Like sometimes you know,
if I can go to Korea or something and work
with some you know, Korean writers and like they can
speak a little English, I can speak a little crayon,
(20:04):
but like somehow just through the music, you know, I
can go what if we do and they go, well,
we can go. It's like there's no language barrier exactly. Yeah,
so that's the cool part. So a lot of these
(20:28):
K pop groups are like ten twelve people, So how
how do you know which person is going to get
which part? Or are you a part of that process?
Because you have to be thinking about that when you're
writing the music, right, We definitely think about it when
we're writing. You know, we have to write, Um, I
try to write more depending. I mean, sometimes you're writing
(20:49):
for a solo artist, so that affects you know the
way that you're going to write, But if you're writing
for a group, um, you have to think about, well,
there has to be this part for this member. There
has to be this part for this member, whether or
not that's how it ends up. Why do some some
members get left out and don't get all? I think
everybody gets apart, but like it might not be the
(21:11):
part that you know we originally intended it for them
to be. Because you know, they have vocal producers, um
who you know are in the studio coaching them, so
they might change some parts around when they're doing it,
and so yeah, it just depends. How do you think
K pop influence went Western pop or the other way around.
(21:33):
I mean, obviously it had to have influenced each other,
right sure. Yeah, Well, I think especially these days, like
K pop's influence on the West is it's huge. I
mean you can see that with like all the collaborations
that are happening, you know, you know BTS and Halsey
and I mean, you know, um, you know, Monster X
is doing all these collaps and there's just so much.
(21:56):
There's so many different things going on that I think
at this point live in a world where it's like
there are no barriers to collaboration kind of you know
what I was saying, even with working with you know,
different writers. So I think these days it's like everything,
everything is influencing each other. It's just just one giant
(22:18):
kind of melting pot of music and pop cultoration of
pop culture. Yeah, do you think K pop is a trend?
What's the future of K pop? Because right now, like,
do you think it's hit a peak? I Mean, it's
something that I'm curious about all the time. It's K pop,
Like it's so crazy right now? How can it go crazier? Yeah,
(22:39):
I mean, I mean it's it is hard to say.
I mean, but I would say it's definitely not a trend.
Like I don't I don't think that it's like if
like BTS went away tomorrow, that like K pop itself
would go away as a global force. I think that,
you know, it's it's become such a global culture that
it's it's not whether it maintains like this level, because
(23:02):
I always say, like BTS, it's like Beatlemania, like it's
like it is. I mean, it's exactly the same. I mean,
they're they're what like they might be the best selling
artists in the world at this point or at least
up there. Um, they sell out stadiums all around the world,
so that level, I mean, yeah, why not. Why can't
there be another group that does that? Every time I
(23:25):
think that it can't be beat it's like some other
group comes along and I'm like, oh my gosh, right right,
what about you? Like, are you going to continue writing
k pop? This is like your thing, this is your realm.
I mean, well, I'm you know, I'm a musician. I
love writing all different kinds of things. But like I
I think for me, uh, I find a lot of
joy in writing um for K pop and because and
(23:48):
I think the big thing about it is because it's
not like something that I wouldn't even necessarily get the
chance to do ten fifteen years ago. To be able
to do that, and and the fact that like the
fan base is so excited about everything everything and makes
you excited and you're like, we gonna be excited together. Yeah,
(24:08):
it's almost like I don't know, like you know, I
don't think that there is like like fan bases of
artists that kind of even match that you know, justin
Bieber fans aren't even that crazy. You know. There's something
about these fans that are just it's it's extremely influential
(24:29):
in like so many different ways, right, And they're not
just fans of K pop once they become like a
KA pop fan, their fans of everything Korean. Oh, yeah,
for sure. And it affects like every part of the culture. Yeah,
it's like a like a gateway gateway. It's a gateway drug,
you know, it's a gateway. Definitely. I always say that
the food is the gateway, but really with Korean culture,
(24:52):
it might be pop. Well, I don't know. I mean
maybe maybe you know. The food is definitely like right there,
food is right. I mean, you wanta have to ask
me a cream obviously, it's fucking great. And speaking of food,
you know, I do this thing where I cook for
all of my guests. David Little you don't need spicy
(25:13):
and someone's green food is spicy. Oh my god, this
kind of blows my mind about you that you don't
eat spicy food. Still to this thing, I say, and um,
of course Dave's wife I worked with for a long time.
She's a Korean chef, and I'm like, Dave doesn't need
spicy food. You gotta you gotta train him. Well I
can do, I can. I've gone to that level. Oh
(25:33):
my god, I'm so proud of you. Yeah, I'm proud
of myself. So I wanted to like do this gad
thing where I cook something mad spicy for you, but
do that so funny, so funny. I feel like every
man's favorite Korean dish is this dish, and I've made
it for another one of my guests. It's kyd Beteam
the Brave short rib. The other version I made was spicy,
(25:56):
So I was like, you know, what this version is,
the non spice one. It's a more traditional one. Thank
you very much. I'm gonna have you tasted. Sure. When's
the last time you had Kybee team. I don't know,
maybe a month ago, a month ago that long. Well,
you know, it looks unbelievable, dude, This is this is
this looks unbelievable. This is so First of all, it's
(26:18):
so funny that every every like man that I had
on the show always wants these very difficult dishes, Like
it's like it's like beef that's like being cooked for
like three days, like you want it's hard long tongue
which is the bone broth, which it was impossible for
me to make. Or Kaybee Tam this is possible, but
it still takes like four hours eating this. Now I
(26:39):
can't even please, you can't even Oh and then the
other thing that you said was coop tongue, which is
like intestines, And I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna like
clean the testine. No, you don't want you don't want
to make that for me. So of course, Kaybee tim
is um not hard to make. It just takes a
long time. It's basically sibree short ribs. Um, sorry to
(27:05):
interrupt you. This is just so good? Is it good?
It's so good? Thank you, You're very welcome. Can you
like describe the flavors for our listeners? Okay, so I
don't know, I really no food terminology. I would imagine
like savory and succulent and tender and juicy and just
all kinds of goodness. What's the flavor profile? Like, it's
(27:29):
a little sweet. There's some sweetness there for sure, Yeah,
just enough. It's not like overwhelming, but it doesn't get
in the way of all the other stuff that's going on. Um,
what else? What else can you describe? It's like the
meat itself is the perfect blend of like there's something
(27:50):
like the fattiness, tenderness, and just like real kind of
beef that you can dig into. It's just like a
really nice combination. Yeah. And of course the potatoes and
the carrots, and I add sweet potatoes to my credit team,
which I always think it's like a nice touch. Yeah,
maybe that's giving it some of the sweetness. What is
(28:11):
your fondest memory of this dish? Like, why is this
your favorite cream dish besides it being freaking delicious? Yeah,
I mean this might have been one of the first
Korean dishes that I've ever had. Really, Yeah, maybe this
and like um, yeah you know, or some sort of
like cream barbecue. Yeah, you know, but like this is
(28:34):
I don't know this feel because you know, there wasn't
that many cream dishes that I could eat because some
many of them are spicy, like soups and stuff. So
like I was very limited. This is like very nice
for me. Yeah, that's true, you don't want Yeah, and
for some of our listeners that can't eat spicy food,
this is like the perfect thing to start with, I think. So. Yeah.
I mean it's like Bree short rips. Who doesn't like that? Yeah,
(28:56):
it's some meat and potatoes. Yeah, definitely like a crowd pleaser,
Like I meet this dish when I know that, when
I don't know who I'm cooking for, I make this
dish and I know that everyone's gonna love it. So
it's safe. It's safe. It's a safe but it's it's basic. Right,
It's like a great pop song. Yeah, oh wow, perfect,
(29:19):
I love it. I love it. Al Rite another book,
m hmm, it's cool. Well, Dave, thank you so much.
Where can we find you? And where can we find
your music? You can? You know? My my music is
all over the place you on. My website is amber
Songs dot com and my Instagram handles David amber Songs.
(29:41):
So yeah, I'm always updating my releases and amazing doing
all new T pop stuff. Thank you for all you
do for our Korean culture and keep pop. Thank you.
I mean, I'm so happy that I can be involved
and you know it's great. Thank you so much, Dave.
And that's our show. Thanks for listening. If you like
(30:01):
what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a five
star review. Get Down with kay Town is a production
of I Heart Radio and was created by our executive
producer Christopher Hasiotis and me Esther Toroy. Follow me on
all social media at toy bites and I'd also like
to thank our producer, editor and mixer Marcy de Pina.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
(30:23):
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
I think what the K pop agencies and the artists
do a really good job of is like kind of
creating this like really immersive experience where it's not just
about one thing. It's not just about the music, it's
not just about the videos, it's not just about the
fan interactions, like it's not just about the backstories. But
all these things combined create this cultural phenomenon that's it's
(00:24):
super powerful and effective, and it connects in ways that
maybe American pop or European pop like doesn't doesn't really do.
Welcome to get down with Kay Town. I'm your host
esther Choy. So how on earth did K pop become
a global phenomenon from Kingdom style by size several K
(00:46):
pop bands such as BTS, Scott seven XO, Black Pink
hitting number one on billboards constantly. K pop stardom is unreal.
What's really fascinating is that none of this is accidental.
K pop has been the international face of South Korea
and really backed by the government. It is an extremely disciplined,
(01:06):
organized and controlled production system. And I don't really don't
think that there will ever be a straight answer to
this question of how K pop became k pop there's
so many layers and facets of K pop and definitely
we can always try to understand this and answer some questions.
And to help me do that, today I have a
(01:27):
really good friend of mine joining us to talk all
things K pop. David Amber, Welcome to the show having me.
Dave is a music producer, songwriter, and composer based out
of l A, originally from New York though, because that's
how we met. You run and operate your own full
(01:47):
service music production company. And for our listeners who might
not know what this means, including me, what does this mean? Like,
what does it mean to operate your whole full service
music production company? So for me and the people that
I work with, were like the beginning of the production
process because generally, um, you know, we we take the
(02:11):
song from the ground up. Me as the producer, songwriters,
writing songs, singers has kind of developed demo singers, putting
all these things together. Um, we create the song as
far as we can take it before we pass it
along to the music labels, who then give the songs
to the artists, promote the artists, promote the songs, create
(02:32):
the music videos through the choreography. It's the whole process.
It's the whole process. You're the start of it. We're well,
I mean as far as the from the musical process. Obviously,
the labels are kind of like our clients, UM, but
we create the music from the ground up. And yeah,
you've worked with both major labels and independent artists, UM
(02:55):
in the US and abroad specifically obviously the in pop world,
meaning K pop and J pop. Did can you name
a few artists that you work with, like in K pop?
That's huge? Sure? Yeah, I worked with Twice, who's a
big girl group XO girlfriend G friend. UM. Recently one
(03:17):
of your songs made the number one hit list. Which
song is that? Well? Last year I had a song
called yes or Yes that came out with Twice that
went it was it was they called a perfect all
kill where it hits number one on all the South
Korean charts that simultaneously. Um. So that was pretty exciting,
super exciting. What was your favorite artists that you worked with?
(03:38):
You think that your favorite song? Do you have one?
Really hard to say. They're all that kind of my babies, UM.
And working with the artists, I mean, obviously the artists,
I'll bring their kind of perspective of the songs, and
depending on who the artist is, they kind of had
their own twist. So that's kind of like the cool
thing like when we, you know, kind of perform a
(04:00):
song one way and an artist takes it and they
kind of like make it their own, their own personality. Yeah,
and and and it's like, you know, sometimes it takes
it to a place that I never even thought that,
you know, it could go. And particularly I always like
the group SF nine. Um, they're a boy group, and
I'm always a big fan. I'm a big fan of
(04:20):
their vocal performances, and they've always done a great job
with the songs I've given them. So so what makes
their vocal so special? I don't know. I mean, everybody's special, right,
but I don't want to say like they're special and
somebody else's in special just for like I don't know
something about. Um. You know, I had a song with
them that just came out recently. Um, what's a song called.
(04:40):
It's called Lulu La La, And they you know, we
wrote some raps for the verses, and you know, we
wrote it a certain way, and when I heard the
final it was just so quirky and weird, so different
and so different from the way that like we had
imagined it that like it was just it was really
cool for me. I was a fan of what they did.
(05:02):
You know, that's great. So like that's real talent right there. Yeah,
I think so, yeah, I have to ask this is
maybe the most like blunt and obvious question. But I
don't think I've ever asked you this. So Dave is
not Korean and everyone's like what, so, Dave, you are
a white American man and this is a little bit
(05:24):
mind boggling because how did you get into k pop? Why?
Kee pop? And it's like it's kind of crazy, right
because you would think that all these writers of this,
these kay pop music, it would be a Korean person,
but it's not like that at all. Can you talk
about this a little bit, like I'm sure, do you
get asked this, like what has that been? Like? Sure? Yeah,
(05:46):
I mean, you know, I think still probably the majority
of writers that working K pop are Korean. Um, you know,
maybe there's I don't know, foreign writers either from your
up or North America, you know, other places in Japan.
For me personally, like I don't know, I've always kind
(06:06):
of like tangentially. Like I mean, like I've known I've
been like kind of exposed to K pop since I
don't know when I was in college early two thousand's okay,
but it's not like you grew up with these K
pop artists, Like you didn't grow up with like h
O T or SCS or no. But I was aware
of them. You were aware. Yeah, I was aware of
(06:27):
them and like you know, and you really liked it
from the from sre so like we would go to
likee Ban with my Korean friends, like and like they
would be singing these songs and there was a lot
of them, Like I mean, I still remember a lot
of these songs like one Time and oh I Love
one Time, like a lot of the ballads too from
that time. If I hear them now, it's like very nostalgic.
(06:48):
So like I've always kind of even if I wasn't
like actively listening, Yeah, I was always kind of being
exposed to it and influenced by that. I mean, if
you were in Philadelphia because there was a big crean scene, sure, yeah,
so you think that that kind of shaped your way
of like, okay, like K pop, I like it and yeah,
and just my way of like kind of the way
I go about making music, and it all kind of
(07:09):
rubs off on you. I'm curious how you got started
into dabbling into K pop because you weren't always obviously
writing like K pop music from the start of your
career kind of became that kind of progressed later. Yeah, well,
actually what happened was when I started like really professionally
writing songs, because I started doing commercials when I first
(07:30):
started like professionally, remember, yeah, so, and that's I mean,
that's something I love doing, like I love composing. But
when I started writing songs and sending them out to
like different you know, publishers and people that could help
me get the songs exposed. Um. I had sent some
songs to Um, a Korean publisher, and he had gotten
(07:52):
in touch with me, and he was like, yo, your
stuff like it fits like maybe it's it's raw and
it's like you know, so when you were sending these
songs out to these producers, was it complete songs like
pop songs? Yeah, so it was pops. It's not like, oh,
I'm going to send these this K pop song to
this Maybe it wasn't like that. I was just writing songs,
(08:13):
writing songs like trying to get my chops up, like
you know, so I would just send stuff out and
see what the reaction would be. And he was one
of the people that like contacted me, and he was
like this works for the K pop market, and like,
you know, this is probably two thousand eleven. So like
that that next wave of K pop was starting to
(08:35):
come in. You know, you had the Girl's Generation super
junior kind of all those sm artists. Big Bang was
still huge. It was before Gingham style, but there was
still like a lot of buzz. Yeah, So like I was,
I was interested when he said that. It made me
interested in like, oh, maybe this is something that I
can pursue. Yeah, yeah, And then from there it kind
(08:57):
of was history. Like you started writing specifically for like
Asian pop culture. Not only you right for K pop music,
you write like J pop as well well. J pop.
I mean, like I listened to J pop when I
was a kid, like actively actively. Yeah, Like you speak Japanese,
you like lived in Japan for a bit. Yeah, so
like that was that was something else. But with with
(09:20):
K pop particularly and getting involved in that world, it
was like kind of a slow build. So even from there.
It's not like I dove in right after that. But
once I started listening to more music and actively listening,
probably like two thousand eleven, like my interest started to build,
So then I started trying to push more into it.
(09:41):
Got it. Is there a difference between J pop and
kee pop, like the way the music is? Yeah, for sure.
What would you say like the biggest differences. I think
like sonically for me as a producer, K pop isn't
isn't so especially these days, like K pop is more
on like the cutting tip, you know, like the cutting
edge of of sonically all the newest sounds like they're
(10:06):
very trend conscious k pop. Yeah, So it's like in
that sense that's what helps it be so global, because
they're they're forward thinking, um in terms of like using
the latest sounds like you know that kind of stuff,
whereas J pop they kind of have their own thing
going on. It's its own category of music. Yeah, it's
(10:26):
more like underground. Um, it depends. I mean obviously broadly speaking,
like with these Japanese idol groups, it's like kind of
more I want to say, more kind of retro sounding,
you know. Um, they use a lot of like traditional instruments,
like it's more of like like maybe disco pop or
something like that, as opposed to k pop, which is
(10:48):
generally it's pretty modern. I want to talk about the
formulation of a Korean pop song, right, like, how do
you do you know what's going to be a hit
before you Right? This means like say you're in the
(11:10):
process of writing a song, you write in and you're like,
this is like definitely going to be a hit, Like
do you know? Is that a weird question? Really? I mean,
like I certainly feel good about certain songs when I'm
like I'm like this is this is fire, Like this
is amazing. There must be a formula to it, is what.
I don't think, so I really don't. I mean, like,
you know, you might do something that you think is
(11:30):
like the bomb, like this is the best thing I've
ever done, and then you send it out and it's
like crickets, you know, and that has happened to you
oh yeah many times. Um, And then they'll be songs
where I'm like this is cool, like this isn't like
my favorite song, and then it'll get picked up right away.
So like for me, it'd be nice if there was
(11:51):
some kind of formula, like there is no formula, yeah,
because I mean, you know, sounds change, it depends who's
listening to it. It's just I'm trying to get into
your your musical break. So I think so a lot
of times it's like either there's two ways to start.
It's like either a label or a publisher requests some
(12:11):
certain kind of song, Like they say, we're looking for
songs for this artist, can you do something for them?
So that sometimes it's like artists specific. Yeah, a lot
of times it's artists right, um, and so we so
like in that situation, it's like you have a starting point.
But other times, and sometimes the songs that have the
(12:32):
most success are just the ones where you're just like,
let's write a song, and you know, as long as
you're kind of like keeping the parameters in mind of
what you're doing, those can be the most fun. What
do you think makes ke pop song different than your
standard pops? On? Like? Why is why do you think
ke pop became ke pop? Like it's just it's crazy, right,
(12:54):
Like it is fandom of keep hop. It's like the
wrath of your like K pop fans. Yeah, they're rabbit man.
It's like it's pretty amazing. I was saying that. I
went to that US show on Friday, the showcase, and
like just can you can you tell our listeners what? Oh? Sure? Yeah,
they're they're kind of a newer K pop girl group.
(13:15):
They're like the sister group of Twice, which is they're
you know, they're a massive K pop group under the
j y P label, So they're kind of new, but
they've gotten They've had a lot of success in a
very short time. So we went to their showcase at
l A Live the other night and just being around
the fans, like everything that the girls say, it's like
(13:37):
people are going nuts. It's like what, for example, can
you can you example that you were? Like what the
I'm trying to remember even off the top of my head.
It was just like basic kind of just like the
energy is different. The energy is it's just like up
to eleven, like it's I don't And you know. The
another fascinating thing is like a lot of these fans
(13:57):
are not Korean. It's a mix. It's a mix of
every you look around, it's it's every ethnicities, it's it's
truly a global thing, which is I think that's so great.
I mean, like kkon you spoke at. Kon Kekan is
basically like a Korean conference where it's like an annual
Korean wave convention that it's that's held all over the
(14:20):
world and it started here in l A. But it's
like a fan celebration of Korean culture and mostly music. Um,
I've done some food stuff for Kekon, which I've so
I've seen it. It's like insane, Yeah, it's insane. You
see like these girls that are dressed like k pop
(14:41):
stars and none of these girls are Korean and they're
all like doing the dance moves, they're singing to the lyrics,
are speaking Korean? Is that? I mean? For me, I'm
just mind blown. What is going on? It's so cool,
it's so cool, and I'm just I'm just trying to
understand like why k pop, Like are the songs really
not different? Is it? What is it? I don't know
(15:03):
if it's the cleaning process, like what do you think?
I don't know, it's like there, I mean, it's the
whole thing. Really. I mean, I think what the K
pop agencies and the artists do a really good job
of is like kind of creating this like really immersive
experience where it's not just about one thing. It's not
just about the music, it's not just about the videos,
(15:24):
it's not just about the fan interactions, like it's not
just about the backstories. But all these things combined create
this cultural phenomenon that's it's super powerful and effective, and
it connects in ways that maybe American pop or European
pop like doesn't doesn't really do. And for certain people
(15:45):
that it really connects with, it's like it creates this
kind of like super dedicated fan and I think it's
so crazy. Yeah, it's hard to put it's hard to
like pinpoint exactly what it is, but I can say that,
you know, in my opinion, they're they're doing something that
nobody you know, the companies and the artists are doing
something that nobody else is doing. They've really tapped into something.
(16:07):
It's like very powerful that goes beyond just entertainment. It
goes Yeah, obviously it's like very cultural and obviously for
Korea it's just been insane. I mean, I feel like
K pop really shape the way of people understanding what
Korean culture is about. I think so yeah. I mean
(16:28):
I think for a lot of people it's probably there
their first and main exposure to Korean culture a lot, right, Like,
especially in different parts of the world. I mean, we're
in America, so it's it's especially New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia,
these big cities that have you know, there's a lot
of Korean Americans, you know, Koreatown in l A. It's
(16:49):
like it's this cultural hub. But a lot of places
don't have that. So this is their main exposure to
Korean culture, at least their first exposure. Yeah, for sure,
I know that you speak a little bit of Korean,
but when you're writing these songs, like how did it
do you write your write the lyrics? Like, if you
(17:10):
don't speak the language fluently, how is this song? Well,
we don't write the lyrics. We don't we write English lyrics, okay,
And like so I mean, you know we write we
write a song in English, and generally the way that
it works is we'll write a song in English, we'll
send it to a label and if they decide that
(17:32):
they want to use the song, then they'll hire a
Korean lyricist to either adapt the song or sometimes they'll
just change change the lyrics completely. Yeah, And I think
does that matter to you as like as an artist, Well,
I'm you know, so, like my main skill is production,
(17:53):
So like for me, it's cool because like the music
doesn't really change, you know what I mean. But no,
I don't think so. I think it's it's collaborative, and
I think it's a cool way for non Koreans and
Koreans to be able to work together and create something
cool and different. Should love. I think maybe that's why
you've been so successful in creating these K pop songs
because you're not Korean. Because sometimes if you're exposed to
(18:16):
something like too much, you get so used to it
that it's like one way, right, But you're I guess
as an artist, like or as a songwriter, you're not
just thinking about create. It's not what you're exposed to
and create. K pop songs are kind of a mix
of all different genres, right right. It's not just like
one type of pop music. It's like pulling different types
(18:38):
of music into one. There's a lot of variety. Yeah,
and you have to kind of no, no, your ship
basically in terms of music, you must be like really
special or something like. That's not true. But like, no,
I think it is a cool thing that like and
like I've talked to a lot of Korean songwriters and
producers and stuff, and there's a lot of musical knowledge there.
(19:01):
It's not like Korean writers only listen to k pop,
Like they listen to everything. They listen to everything, and
it's like the same thing that I try to do.
It's like I want to listen to everything and take
sources from all over the place. So when we're able
to collaborate and bring these different perspectives, like culturally, you know,
because I'm from New Jersey, you know, so it's so
(19:22):
much different than from somebody who's from like you know,
post on her soul and we can like get on
Skype write a song together, and it's like just this
kind of cross And do you do that, you like,
collaborate with and writer you guys are like writing music altogether. Yeah,
I mean it depends in the situation. Situations Sometimes it's like,
(19:43):
you know, I make a track, I send it um
and then they'll do their thing. But it's it's always
like and it's it's actually sometimes fun. Like sometimes you know,
if I can go to Korea or something and work
with some you know, Korean writers and like they can
speak a little English, I can speak a little crayon,
(20:04):
but like somehow just through the music, you know, I
can go what if we do and they go, well,
we can go. It's like there's no language barrier exactly. Yeah,
so that's the cool part. So a lot of these
(20:28):
K pop groups are like ten twelve people, So how
how do you know which person is going to get
which part? Or are you a part of that process?
Because you have to be thinking about that when you're
writing the music, right, We definitely think about it when
we're writing. You know, we have to write, Um, I
try to write more depending. I mean, sometimes you're writing
(20:49):
for a solo artist, so that affects you know the
way that you're going to write, But if you're writing
for a group, um, you have to think about, well,
there has to be this part for this member. There
has to be this part for this member, whether or
not that's how it ends up. Why do some some
members get left out and don't get all? I think
everybody gets apart, but like it might not be the
(21:11):
part that you know we originally intended it for them
to be. Because you know, they have vocal producers, um
who you know are in the studio coaching them, so
they might change some parts around when they're doing it,
and so yeah, it just depends. How do you think
K pop influence went Western pop or the other way around.
(21:33):
I mean, obviously it had to have influenced each other,
right sure. Yeah, Well, I think especially these days, like
K pop's influence on the West is it's huge. I
mean you can see that with like all the collaborations
that are happening, you know, you know BTS and Halsey
and I mean, you know, um, you know, Monster X
is doing all these collaps and there's just so much.
(21:56):
There's so many different things going on that I think
at this point live in a world where it's like
there are no barriers to collaboration kind of you know
what I was saying, even with working with you know,
different writers. So I think these days it's like everything,
everything is influencing each other. It's just just one giant
(22:18):
kind of melting pot of music and pop cultoration of
pop culture. Yeah, do you think K pop is a trend?
What's the future of K pop? Because right now, like,
do you think it's hit a peak? I Mean, it's
something that I'm curious about all the time. It's K pop,
Like it's so crazy right now? How can it go crazier? Yeah,
(22:39):
I mean, I mean it's it is hard to say.
I mean, but I would say it's definitely not a trend.
Like I don't I don't think that it's like if
like BTS went away tomorrow, that like K pop itself
would go away as a global force. I think that,
you know, it's it's become such a global culture that
it's it's not whether it maintains like this level, because
(23:02):
I always say, like BTS, it's like Beatlemania, like it's
like it is. I mean, it's exactly the same. I mean,
they're they're what like they might be the best selling
artists in the world at this point or at least
up there. Um, they sell out stadiums all around the world,
so that level, I mean, yeah, why not. Why can't
there be another group that does that? Every time I
(23:25):
think that it can't be beat it's like some other
group comes along and I'm like, oh my gosh, right right,
what about you? Like, are you going to continue writing
k pop? This is like your thing, this is your realm.
I mean, well, I'm you know, I'm a musician. I
love writing all different kinds of things. But like I
I think for me, uh, I find a lot of
joy in writing um for K pop and because and
(23:48):
I think the big thing about it is because it's
not like something that I wouldn't even necessarily get the
chance to do ten fifteen years ago. To be able
to do that, and and the fact that like the
fan base is so excited about everything everything and makes
you excited and you're like, we gonna be excited together. Yeah,
(24:08):
it's almost like I don't know, like you know, I
don't think that there is like like fan bases of
artists that kind of even match that you know, justin
Bieber fans aren't even that crazy. You know. There's something
about these fans that are just it's it's extremely influential
(24:29):
in like so many different ways, right, And they're not
just fans of K pop once they become like a
KA pop fan, their fans of everything Korean. Oh, yeah,
for sure. And it affects like every part of the culture. Yeah,
it's like a like a gateway gateway. It's a gateway drug,
you know, it's a gateway. Definitely. I always say that
the food is the gateway, but really with Korean culture,
(24:52):
it might be pop. Well, I don't know. I mean
maybe maybe you know. The food is definitely like right there,
food is right. I mean, you wanta have to ask
me a cream obviously, it's fucking great. And speaking of food,
you know, I do this thing where I cook for
all of my guests. David Little you don't need spicy
(25:13):
and someone's green food is spicy. Oh my god, this
kind of blows my mind about you that you don't
eat spicy food. Still to this thing, I say, and um,
of course Dave's wife I worked with for a long time.
She's a Korean chef, and I'm like, Dave doesn't need
spicy food. You gotta you gotta train him. Well I
can do, I can. I've gone to that level. Oh
(25:33):
my god, I'm so proud of you. Yeah, I'm proud
of myself. So I wanted to like do this gad
thing where I cook something mad spicy for you, but
do that so funny, so funny. I feel like every
man's favorite Korean dish is this dish, and I've made
it for another one of my guests. It's kyd Beteam
the Brave short rib. The other version I made was spicy,
(25:56):
So I was like, you know, what this version is,
the non spice one. It's a more traditional one. Thank
you very much. I'm gonna have you tasted. Sure. When's
the last time you had Kybee team. I don't know,
maybe a month ago, a month ago that long. Well,
you know, it looks unbelievable, dude, This is this is
this looks unbelievable. This is so First of all, it's
(26:18):
so funny that every every like man that I had
on the show always wants these very difficult dishes, Like
it's like it's like beef that's like being cooked for
like three days, like you want it's hard long tongue
which is the bone broth, which it was impossible for
me to make. Or Kaybee Tam this is possible, but
it still takes like four hours eating this. Now I
(26:39):
can't even please, you can't even Oh and then the
other thing that you said was coop tongue, which is
like intestines, And I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna like
clean the testine. No, you don't want you don't want
to make that for me. So of course, Kaybee tim
is um not hard to make. It just takes a
long time. It's basically sibree short ribs. Um, sorry to
(27:05):
interrupt you. This is just so good? Is it good?
It's so good? Thank you, You're very welcome. Can you
like describe the flavors for our listeners? Okay, so I
don't know, I really no food terminology. I would imagine
like savory and succulent and tender and juicy and just
all kinds of goodness. What's the flavor profile? Like, it's
(27:29):
a little sweet. There's some sweetness there for sure, Yeah,
just enough. It's not like overwhelming, but it doesn't get
in the way of all the other stuff that's going on. Um,
what else? What else can you describe? It's like the
meat itself is the perfect blend of like there's something
(27:50):
like the fattiness, tenderness, and just like real kind of
beef that you can dig into. It's just like a
really nice combination. Yeah. And of course the potatoes and
the carrots, and I add sweet potatoes to my credit team,
which I always think it's like a nice touch. Yeah,
maybe that's giving it some of the sweetness. What is
(28:11):
your fondest memory of this dish? Like, why is this
your favorite cream dish besides it being freaking delicious? Yeah,
I mean this might have been one of the first
Korean dishes that I've ever had. Really, Yeah, maybe this
and like um, yeah you know, or some sort of
like cream barbecue. Yeah, you know, but like this is
(28:34):
I don't know this feel because you know, there wasn't
that many cream dishes that I could eat because some
many of them are spicy, like soups and stuff. So
like I was very limited. This is like very nice
for me. Yeah, that's true, you don't want Yeah, and
for some of our listeners that can't eat spicy food,
this is like the perfect thing to start with, I think. So. Yeah.
I mean it's like Bree short rips. Who doesn't like that? Yeah,
(28:56):
it's some meat and potatoes. Yeah, definitely like a crowd pleaser,
Like I meet this dish when I know that, when
I don't know who I'm cooking for, I make this
dish and I know that everyone's gonna love it. So
it's safe. It's safe. It's a safe but it's it's basic. Right,
It's like a great pop song. Yeah, oh wow, perfect,
(29:19):
I love it. I love it. Al Rite another book,
m hmm, it's cool. Well, Dave, thank you so much.
Where can we find you? And where can we find
your music? You can? You know? My my music is
all over the place you on. My website is amber
Songs dot com and my Instagram handles David amber Songs.
(29:41):
So yeah, I'm always updating my releases and amazing doing
all new T pop stuff. Thank you for all you
do for our Korean culture and keep pop. Thank you.
I mean, I'm so happy that I can be involved
and you know it's great. Thank you so much, Dave.
And that's our show. Thanks for listening. If you like
(30:01):
what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a five
star review. Get Down with kay Town is a production
of I Heart Radio and was created by our executive
producer Christopher Hasiotis and me Esther Toroy. Follow me on
all social media at toy bites and I'd also like
to thank our producer, editor and mixer Marcy de Pina.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
(30:23):
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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