WIllie D chops it up with producer and songwriter extraordinaire Errol McCalla aka "Poppi". They discuss his experiences working with the likes Beyoncé, Destiny Child, Missy Elliot, Keyshia Cole (to name a few), being in a group with rapper Z-Ro, success in the e-commerce business and much more. Tune in and join the conversation in the socials below.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yet you know boys is back and rediod it all
in your mind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, now deep throating.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
This is for the streets, the real the railroading, the
distan franchise, the truth escapegoating, and they ain't know when
we speak the truth, so they quoted because we wrote it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The North South East Coaches.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
The ge be mocked for keeping your head, Bobby, it
ain't no.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Stopping and once to be drops head by then the
system is so corrupt they threw the.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Rock out their heads and then blame it on us.
Don't get it twisted on coding. We danced to put
no butterment biscuits. It's Willie d y'all get old Boys
in the house back with another episode of information and
instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world.
In the studio, Earl E. Poppy mccallar Jr.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Key, Hey man, thanks for happening, man.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Absolutely, Man, it's always nice to sit down and chop
it up.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
With Hey, it's all good. Thank you for the compliment.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, man, you are a serial entrepreneur, did you know.
I think it's fair to say, hey, yeah, I've been
knowing you for a while, so I know your many businesses,
any successful businesses, but before all of that, and you
were one of the men that were responsible for some
of the biggest hits that we had an opportunity to
(01:24):
rock to where gases don't Danny boogie. But you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, at least make Love to or
something like that, right, right.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right, right right, man, Uh, drop some of your credits, man,
I know what they are.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
But I mean, we got you know, Beyonce, They're interestingly
in love, we got the Pussy Cabin, Cy Elliott.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's a independent woman. I was a co writer on that.
Truth hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I didn't know you wrote.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, I got the River to work on that. So
as a matter of fact, we can go into that too.
I got right now, I have seven titles that I
have the River to work on. So people don't know
that I've was behind some major records. But you know
some of those are you know, almost put classified as
a ghost writing position, so you know it's not really
ghost writing.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Let's talk about derivative work since.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
We talked about that, but we'll bring it up later
because that is maybe something that you want to get into.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Let's talk about it now, all right, Before we get
off track.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So sometimes you get these especially back and then when
I would write and do all these writer sessions, you
get a lot of writers in and they'll start creating
with you. So whenever work is created from that original record,
that's and they go and change it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's a derivative work, right, So what So.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
That happened a lot of times where I'm in and
out of different camps obviously, and somebody may take an
opportunity with another producer, say hey, I wrote this song,
I co wrote this song, and all of a sudden
they trying to start trying to strip my stuff off
that I've helped and go bring it to another producer
because they may have a better chance. You know, I
can't hate them on that. But there's a way that
the business works.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, give me give me my money.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, you know a lot of people they jumping this
with the tech and the don't know the business. See,
I made sure I lay it up and everything from
the chop, so I knew, I knew. I read a
lot of books and that's when I actually that's when
I first learned about the rivers work, and I took
it to my attorney and then we just want to
have to all these records.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so basically it's derivative. Work is derivative, which is
derivative of the word derived. Absolutely, So it all starts
with you making music or something, sometimes in collaboration with
someone else, but as a person, a person that works
in your camp may decide, Okay, I'm going to take
(03:34):
this and I'm going to embellish it with another artist,
or just put my name on it.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
No, that would be stilling if they just put their
name on it. But in the case, let's say you know,
you and I we get in, we lock in, we
do something. You're not not got a hook.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Let's say, right, and you didn't take this and you say,
you know what, I like this track that he did.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Maybe maybe it was old, maybe it was just a
year or two old, five years old, and you decide
to take that song dated with somebody else. I now
own a piece of that record, though, because your lyric
and melody derived from my music.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I think that's what I was trying to say. I
just I guess I was articulating your audience, basically just
saying basically, this music that you had, you put a
footprint on, you had something to do with that, but
there was the elements that's in the original, absolutely the
original composition.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
And in the case of the one I just mentioned,
like I had some real weird clown music, I was
going for a different style.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
My my production company was Playhouse, and I used to
have this like treehouse type of concept with these kids.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I created these animated characters to go with it, sounds
and all that. So I was going for this real corny,
goofy sound, and it was real cheesy. That record would
have never been what it is if the producers didn't
redo it. When they heard it, they heard the potential
of what the topic was, so they redone that record,
and it's a smash.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
You got your money, yeah, yeah, got money.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
As much as they as much as they paid until
they stopped. Yeah yeah, well yeah, it's all how.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Does that go? Somebody owe you money?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
And that was just a passive joke, I meaning like
until they it won't stop obviotually it's coming through performing royalties, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
it's coming to get that money.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The p r os handled that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And it's not even about being money hungry, you know,
being greedy it's just a by getting what's belonging to me? Correct,
you know it.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Always happened though, yeah, I mean me because you got
to realize we're in the industry. We got some big
sharks out there, right, So a lot of times I
had to just play my position.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I've had songs taken all kinds of things like that.
But I have to choose.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Do I want to go in that battle and never
work again, or I just want to sit quiet, take that,
take that al and move on.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Now. When you were making the music with Destiny's Child,
was you in the studio with the girls? Yes, yeah, yeah,
what's that vibe? Like?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I mean, if you want me to start with B
I have still to this day, never been with somebody
as detailed and and uh just it's all you have
to be in there to really see what happened that
when our first song happened, we were at we actually
were in Houston and we were at what's the name
of the.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Studio, what street? I'll tell you what it was.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
That's a big studio, oldest studio. I can't believe he's
gonna be mad that I forgot this studio.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tell me the street, I help you out.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
It's kind of in this area. It's uh in this area. Yeah,
hold on, let me see.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
A big studio in this area.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Damn Bookman is over there.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh oh yeah, I see.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, that's what happened to me just now.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, well, well well we call it the takeover that.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh no, I'm thinking no, excuse me, I butchered his name, yeah,
said Danny book white guy glasses.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh, I butchered him. Were gonna have to go back
on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You're talking about sugar Hill, thank you? Yeah, yeah, so
let's run it back.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
And so yeah, we ended up at sugar Hill on
the first on our first session, and we just got
into a writer session. And that was a funny moment
for me because I had a record that was kind
of like a It was banging. It was supposed to be,
matter of fact, even go into some lessons from here too.
So I started playing tracks. Oh, they chose one. It
(07:20):
had like a tumbling vibe sound to it. I was
playing some guitars on it, and you know, I had
one of my co writers in there with me, and
he wrote a song that I hated. I just hated
that song. So everybody in there trying to you know,
get the vibe on B. You know, no shot of
anybody else. She was out working everybody. Okay. So after
a while they couldn't come up with anything that anybody
(07:42):
would just locking into. So my guy said, hey, I
got something that's hot. So he ended up singing the
song to him. I looked at him like I wanted
to kill him, but they loved it so that it
was a song called hands off, and it was actually
to fast forward or going into that session what I
saw the ethic. They didn't have a sample or anything
at that time, or I forgot what it was, but
we couldn't fly the hook. B did every part over exactly,
(08:05):
so if I if I had a record for eight parts,
she went to the next hook.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
And did everyone exactly like the first. No, she was like,
I mean, she was knocking the miles. She was like,
all right, what you like that? Yeah, all right, cool?
Next and she's just knocking it off.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So now this is how I know you're not lying.
Back in the gap before the girls took off, I'm
at their house. I'm at the Knowle's house, the Nose's house,
and the girls are practicing and they're dancing. So right
(08:42):
after they finished Matt like, we wanted want to do
it again? Willie, I want to do He said, you want?
He said, you want to do it again? Will I say?
You know me, I'm a worker, Yeah, do it again,
because I want to see the commitment. Beyonce jumps up first,
just like that. She ready. The other girls, they you know,
(09:04):
they came along, but they were more they came along
more sluggishly, like it was more like, Okay, let's do it.
They didn't complain, but in their face they was like
you could tell that they were a little you know,
they were a little tired or whatever. But Beyonce may
have been tired, but man, she just jumped right back
in just like that. And the thing that I'd always
(09:27):
admired about her is that she's always been the lead,
and at least for the most part, she's been the
lead and her dad was the manager. She could have
easily been a really bad person, She could have easily
been a bad actor, and she could have been selfish
(09:50):
and spawled, but she never came across that way.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Ever.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I've never seen her look down on anybody play somebody.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
She knew, she knew that it was yeah, she knew that, Yeah,
she still you.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Know, but to all the girls. Credit, man, they all
of them, they all work the off.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I just have it as somebody you'd have to.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So someone would say, big deal, she did all the
hooks of No, it was the level of commitment that
she put into that.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Correct, you should have seen it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
It was only it was only something that would have
been worth seeing on tape or being that experience. Okay,
So but yeah, fast forward with that. That song was
supposed to be the first single for them, and through
politics they start changing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Uh you know, because you deal with a lot of that,
especially with the old.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Mister Pops knows that you know, he wanted his way,
uh you know, so sometimes we don't agree and things happen,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So that recor is still sitting in the archive right now,
but it's a hot one.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah. Now what was Kelly's like?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Oh, she was there, All of them were there. Just
they're doing what they need to do.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Really, to be honest with you, Beyonce was more so
instructing who's gonna do it part and they would just
do that part after she done.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
She done majority of it, right, So.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
This is this is Kelly beyond say Michelle, No, this
is this is before.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That, because when I got together, yeah, all the girls get.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Together, yeah, LaTavia and LaToya LaToya.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah absolutely, yeah, yeah, So that was there and that
was in I will say this had to be in
ninety eight because, believe it or not, I got with
them through Missy. Missy is the one who introduced me
to them. I always used to try to get at
Matthew and at the time I didn't understand what I'm
trying to run up on them with tapes and everything.
You know, hey, check the out, checked out the CD.
He wouldn't take it because it's unsolicited work, you know
(11:37):
what I'm saying. So he wouldn't he wouldn't take it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I used to see him.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I used to work at the music store and would
see him coming there time to time, try to give
him something. It ain't happened so long and short as
they ended up after I got with Missy.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I got with Missy, get in the system, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, I got I got with her when I went
to New York obviously, and we can go into some
of that too, But I was I had just left
New York and I was in Atlanta and then back
into Houston. On this trip, you know, just making Beach
studio the studio, and they ended up coming to New
York and she kept raving about, hey, you need to
check out this kid from Texas, you know, on and
on and on, and that's when it happened.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So that hadn't been like ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And Missy's opinion has weight.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Oh yeah, you got to realized she had just dropped
at that time. She just dropped her album that Super
super Fly.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, so I was. I was there with all that
girl all that yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So yeah, because they know Missy know it hit, yeah,
it hit?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So how did that relationship evolved with Missy?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
How did it come about? Or just eat?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean, you know, well, well, first of all, how
did it started? Then? How did y'all still being contact?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Man?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Y'all still I haven't really you know, when I took
a hiatus, it seemed like a lot of people got
mad at me for even just leaving, you know what
I'm saying. But I just needed to, you know, raise
a family and do some normal stuff or what I
considered normal for me, at least for a minute, because
the industry could drop you in.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
You know, do you ever regret that, nah, man, Cause I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
If you sit with my family, sit with me and
see what's become of them and what's coming.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Then you done. Ustare. Okay, we got a whole new
round that we're about to you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Okay, Yeah, So I don't regret it because I knew
that I stepped in the game young at sixteen seventeen, so,
and I had a good run up until about twenty eight.
And my plan was always to retire at thirty three.
And I figured if I ever came back, I know enough,
know enough people, I could pull up another young one
or create a camp or do it myself again. No,
(13:33):
there's really no age on this producer thing, right, So
even right now as I step back in, you know
what I mean, here we go, and I got my
young ones with me, Like my sixteen year old female
right she's producing right now. She's already scored a movie gig.
She already got her first same Placens placement at sixteen.
(13:54):
So it's a movie coming out called ninety seven Minutes
with Alec Baldwin. Yeah, and she has the only song
that they chose in the movie other than that, Neim
Neim made the beat.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Nim made the beat. Yeah, how you spell.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Nim and I am and I am Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Nim made the beat.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yes, sir, okay, So I'm not to let you hear
somebody nim right right?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
See you get you shine on. You know, it's time
for it's time for another producer out of Houston to
rise above the crop.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, now what we're what we're looking for.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
When you say that, I think, and we'll go go
go back into some of the questions that you asked.
But when you say stuff like that Roseberger crop, I
think we need that, but it's gonna need to support
problem with. I think our whole, especially hip hop environment
is competition and this is creating.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
This is creation.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So why why should we always be competing? Because when
I compete, it puts us at odds. So that's why
I could never work with somebody long term because they
always started to compete rather than just co create.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, but I think competition for only competition is good.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
That's all the same. But it doesn't. That doesn't that's not.
That's good to say, but that's not what happens. I
have people that have tried to work with I'm not
competing with them, But then in their head, they're competing
with me.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Right And when I when I said, when I say
rise above the crop, I'm talking about you know, I'm
talking about average, a mediocre. I'm not talking about I'm
not talking about Oh, you know, we got a good
producer here, and these are good producers, but this guy
is better than everybody. And I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about we need, we need, we need more talent.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Coming up with the compliment to add into that I
was saying, but we as a community need to get
behind this person.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That's what I'm saying. We need to get behind them.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That's not gonna what I what I realized about Houston
is you gotta got to just do it and whether
they whether they jump on it or not, you just
got to do it. And it's like and one one
of the things is that typically people in Houston, once
they hear somebody else is messing with you on the
e side of Houston, then it kind of validates you, like,
(16:04):
oh damn, they they jamming them in Memphis. Oh oh
they picking it up in Chicago like that today, Yeah,
let me jump on it. Let me see what this
is about. With our celest what happened with ghetto boars,
you know, like it was like man, Chicago on this,
Dallas on this absolutely you know, uh, you know Houston.
Houston was kind of you know how well, I can't
(16:25):
say that all the way about Houston with us because
Houston kind of accepted us immediately, so we kind of
had it like but we didn't get radio immediately everybody else.
We had to get radio. Hell day nuts on us
local radio.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Hell that.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
For some reason, I understood what you was talked about,
overstood what you were saying when you talked about used
reference to say Chicago, somebody else's I knew you were
talking about radio. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, because I know
that from the gate y'all y'all would you know it?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
But yeah, just going back into some of the things
because we did leave a few, you know, crumbs here
and there. But I guess, you know, after I graduated,
that's when I started working at this music store.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I don't know if you remember Mars Music.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Mars Music where.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Was that h It was sixteen off for sixteen and
actually where the KG is now, that's where Mars Music
was a super center.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It was like your.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Sam ash or H and H. But it was a
huge concept for this stage lighting and sound.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it was. It was really more like
electronics and stuff and the sold out there. Yeah, but no, no, no,
when you said when you said Mars music, I was
thinking like they were selling selling music.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Right no they so yeah, yeah right yeah, all of
that stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, that type of stuff music as far as instruments
and stuff like.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
That after school, trying to do the school thing after school.
So the first went to my graduated high school. Eventually
I found myself over there for about six months before
the opportunities came about to go to New York. When
I went to New York, I was working with the
the short lived Crave Records. I don't even know if
that was Mariah Carey's label. It was from ninety seven
(18:05):
to ninety eight. They just started ninety seven, like March
or something like that. It was about March. By the
summertime I was out there, you know, they were looking
at me as an in house producer. We're putting everything
together and by the next year it fell out.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And what happened was it Mariah just.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I think you know obviously at that time she was
married to Tommy Matola, and I'm not sure if you
know that that issue between them, you know, I don't
want to speculate, but it just you know, her her
stuff went away, right. So, but I did a lot
of records over there that were coming out. They had
a group called the Lord, seven Mile Girl named Kesha.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It was a lot of stuff. I was just working,
you know.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
So I had a lot of records about to come out,
and then the whole label just you know, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Michael Jackson said, tom and Motola was the devil.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I don't know about all that. You uh no, no,
that's what i'maid. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, so I can't answer to that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, I don't know, Mike said, Mike said. Mike said,
Timmy Mantlet is the devil.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Well, I mean I got people, My peoples know them,
and they don't say that.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So oh yeah, yeah, all right, Okay, is he still active?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I don't think so. I can make a text message, right,
you know, and we can find out just now.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was surprised that Jimmy Ivan retired.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Well, you know, all of them getting in age and
they want to do something else.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I enjoy something else. It is what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I think it's at some point in time to come
to retire. Because when I stepped into this, like I
said from I was in the sixth grade when we started.
And I don't know if you know Zero started with me.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Like you got some zero beats, you got some zero music,
three albums with zero anything unreleased.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm talking unreleased.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
You got three zero albums unreleased.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, because we were a group. We were a group
like you Zero and who We went.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Through and I in middle school, we went through probably
about twelve of us in our final on this photo
I'm about to show you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Uh yeah, that's just good trying too and all that
kind of stuff would just be probably.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
One here, shut that out.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I have to go ahead find So that was that
when we finally and we finally just narrowed it down,
we said, okay, this is us for so myself, I
was djaying and producing another guy Boba, No, he was djaying,
Uh that guy. The other guy's name is Little Moody
and of course Zero right there. So and that's what
that's what Zero was talking about. He was on Vlad
TV and he mentioned it. He said hey, you know,
(20:48):
and again there's this evidence. So I need to send
him this because Vlad sounded like he had a hard.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Time believing him. But you know, but that we were
doing all this in middle school.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
But this I was like fourteen thirteen, fourteen right here, wow,
because the way I could trace it down because by
the time ninth grade came, it was only Zero and
I and then I got mad with the whole just
idea of this thing and stopped doing music.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
At that time.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
You get mad, oh man, I mean we had some
emotional roller coasters going on at that time. Many yeah, yeah,
as a group, you know groups, you know what it is. Yeah, yeah,
So so we had we had our differences creatively, more
so with Joe Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Joe, you know, Zero was just like a brother.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
So but yeah, a lot of yeah that's what he's
that's why, you know, out of respect, he even you know,
mentioned me sitting on glad the whole nine of ten.
But yeah, I need to send him this stuff because
it's a good memorabilia. This is the start, you know,
I'm saying, this is right where he started with me
and everything else. But yeah, a lot of people don't
know that.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, go to boys reloaded podcasts will be right back
after the quick.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
What piqued your interest in music in the first place?
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I was probably eleven. Yeah. It was a competition actually
weird enough.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
My older sister, she didn't realize we had this you know,
civil excuse me this, uh, you know, just rivalry my
older sister.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
So every time she was good at something, I would
probably get jealous and I go get good at it
so she could she could draw.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I got good with drawing. She started playing the keyboard.
I'll say, hey, so that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So I was a good b boxer going into the
sixth grade, and I was almost bullied, like zero and
all them. When I was be boxing, they you know,
beating on the table mixing it with that. They'd be rapping,
and they were like, you need to start producing. Huh
what they said, making beats, you know. So at that
point it was almost like they told me, not asked
me to. So obviously I started learning the keyboard just
(22:51):
to beat my sister, and uh, it just turned into beats.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah. And how many instruments do you play?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Nine?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Because I know you played multiple.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Yeah, yeah, nine instruments it mainly would win instruments because
I was in band. I kept moving around and then
you know, I started touching the brass, the drums, keyboard, guitars,
just like that stuff that's not relevant today for some reason.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I mean it's relevant.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
But you know, do your kids play instruments.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
They want to play guitar. They want to play guitar,
like all of them want to take guitar. And they
were actually fussing at me the other day saying, why
did I stop teaching them how to play the guitar?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But I'm like, I barely know myself. I play my
ear but you know it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, Niam, how good do you think she can be?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I'm gonna I wish, I wish we had a slight
conversation about this before so you can hear. But put
it like this. Other songs were sent in for this soundtrack.
Hers was chosen.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I sent nine songs to recently to Sony for Raisin Kanan.
Three of her songs was chosen for that. Right now,
it's slated and cut the check, but they pulled it down.
They told me, yeah, this looks good. This is three
So how good is she that good?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
M What kind of kid were you growing up? Like?
You know, like, were you like an inquisitive kid? Were you?
Were you bad? I didn't.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
On the surface, I didn't give trouble. But if you
knew me intimately, you knew I wasn't the one to
play with. But other than that, I look just as
innocent as I look today. But you know, but if
it's an issue, I've always been in a position where
(24:39):
it's like a phone call or something and the issues
go away.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So how did you get this cool down era in
your life? How did that come about? Because ever since
I've been on, ever since I've been on you, you know,
you've been a laid back dude.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, you know, I've always been chill to an extent.
There were times when I try to turn up and
I get put back in my place too. But so
maybe just a quick learner, you know, yeah, just a
quick learner. Especially you know, you get humbled real quick.
I remember I used to go back in the beats.
I'm here in Houston. You know, I'm playing against everybody,
(25:17):
this so called so called competition. It wasn't that, but
you know I could play beats and you're like, you like,
I need to go back home.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I go to New York.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I had to go back home, you know, because they
were whooping my tail with the sonic quality sounds, some
of these. You know, I'm in my mom's house, you
know what I mean, just knocking out something a little whatever,
Rudy Pool keyboard. These boys in the studio all you know,
two inch tape running their drums through. There, re sampling
it MPC three thousand, two thousands, everything else, and I'm
(25:45):
competing with all that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So I had to just get it up there, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
So a lot of times, you know, I can say, quick, learner,
you step out with your chest out, get deflated, and
it's always still like that.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So that's why I just learned to just.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Just what's it like. Working with Keisha?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's great. She was.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I can go onto her stories, toms she she was.
I was the type of let me start here with me.
I was like this bully producer. So we had some
moments in the studio that she wouldn't appreciate. Okay, and
I say bully because I was trying to pull out
of her what I can uh and the best out
of her.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So well, your tactics that you used, what would you say, like,
because all producers try to pull the best out of you,
well different now you doing what is what is it?
What is it?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Insults all the way down to you know, I don't
really want to go into too much.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
How would go?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
How would a normal insult go? Like?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
What the fun was that?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah, do that sh it again?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Like you know, and then like because you're being in
the in the booth and you doing it and you
think you just gave.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
You better not do it again?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Do it again?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Uh, you know, things like that. So then it is
what it is?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
So that key she just took that, just took it.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
She didn't just take it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I mean honestly she did. She was in a situation
she was still coming yeah so early yeah yeah. Like
the song that we one of the songs that we
did actually is what aided and helped her keep her
position at the label. Label was Clearing House and Ron
(27:32):
Fair because she came here to recorded.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
She was actually recorded at my house, so she stayed
with me for about two weeks.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
She recorded Your House.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
We did like five songs, but the two that we
put on the album is or We Could Be and
Never with Eve with Eve on that never too Much.
And I was also the first person I didn't know
that at the time to sample and get cleared Luther
Vanders record Never too Much. Yeah, and he got to
hear before he passed everything. He's going to improve it
now just as a reference.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That took all the right We thought he was gonna
get something. He took all of it, man, but it
was worth it. Yeah, it's all good. But yeah, that
record long short.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
When she got back to Cali at some point in
time later, as they were clearing the different roster of
artists and she was up for question, Ron ended up
hearing the record and he was like, when'd you do this?
And back We did like four versions of it because
I did, you know, like, I replayed it another myself
and another guy came in herm and little Yeah, he
(28:30):
came in with me. We replayed one version that didn't
make it. I did want all choppy like, very Kanye like.
Then I did want it's more like a straight record
than I and that's what you you know here that
made it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
But I did like five versions of it, so long
and short.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
She played the version that Ron liked and that's when
he immediately ran over to the department that was doing
the soundtrack and Barbershop Too soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And they made that one of the lead singles for
Barbershop two.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
So and then that and then from there, Kanye did
the record with Changed My Mind and No, No, Yeah
We Go Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Tina Turner music icon recently died. Have you ever had
an opportunity to work with any of the icons from
the past, not not this the contemporary icons, but the
ones from the past, like those who are around back
in the sixties and seventies even eighties.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Mm hmm. Indirectly maybe, but not directly where I can
just say.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Over, you've got to get some credits like that bro
you got, because then that'll make you seem like that's
almost like going back to get your masters. You know,
it's like it's like, man, look, I ain't, I ain't,
I ain't. Just did this right here, man, You know,
you can go back and say I'm classically trained. That's
almost like being classically trained to have work with those
type of people all struck. Yeah, you know, I got
(29:51):
Ron Eyesley under my belt. You know, I got I
got uh, I got uh George Clinton. You know what
I'm saying, I ain't bragging or nothing. I'm just saying
I'm just doing that, you know, you know, just make
it add up.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, well it's there, it's there.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should work with them. I mean,
you know, like and George is close by, you know,
I'm sure George like Adams.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
A Cloud, you know. Yeah, I mean we did her
last album. You worked with we did her last album.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Because yeah, so what happened with that is my god,
Marcus uh, Marcus Egby, he called me to do a
song or so said hey, Lona's working this that the other,
and we basically said, hey, let's let's lock it in.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
So we flooded up with songs and tracks.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
So are my camp me and my homies or producing
homies and click everything you want to call us? Right,
end up doing eighty percent of it. So the last
album that she put out called Becoming It, which was
her first independent album that she did, we did that.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, but you learned is still more contemporary, you know,
all right? You know I was talking about those I'm
talking about that music that raised our parents. Now yeah
you know that type of means those people, Yeah, they
was so special, bro, Listen, I listened to some of
that stuff. Today man, And I'm like, man, I just
I just being odd, like damn, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Well it's it's like this, I was working so much,
like I forget some of the stuff that I was doing,
you know, so I have to like you hit me
with that one like coming out of left and I'm like, oh,
I gotta kind of go on the bag and say
is there Oh yeah, this happened then, But did it
happen back then?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I meaning like any anywhere between then and now, there's
been some type of hey, I'm gonna send this to
this person, They're gonna record this song, et cetera, et cetera.
But you know, I got more songs just sitting in
the catalog waiting to come out than it is out.
I can tell you that right now, you know. And
I'm talking about with Who's who with my I gotta
like if I can get releases on these things, man,
(31:44):
it's popping.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So you're sitting around and waiting on release it. That's
why you ain't put that Get zero man. Zero would
have put that out. Zero would have been like many
zero would have hit that button bam, like y'all come
get it.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Like yeah, he had lost touch for a long time.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
It wasn't until I was actually uh going into a bank,
keeps coming out of back and I said we saw
each other, like we sat outside talking for like two hours.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I was caught up. But that was
a that was a good moment too.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
But yeah, I was just thinking Zero had Yeah, it'll
be a whole other thing.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Zero, Man, if you wanted the song, you wanted to
be on the album, Man, you should have seen something. Man,
I I just I just cut it out. If you
ain't want me to, who is it? Hey, look, hey,
talk to my life, talk to Big, talk to Big.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'm gonna have to get with him because we go.
It's a nice thing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You didn't want me to put it out. You shouldn't
have recorded it. Ship. We were supposed to wait fail
and Zero go get that money, man.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You gonna do it.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Get We got to make sure because somebody stuff on
two inch and and is that old?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
And it's been sitting in the garage. Yeah, I got it,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I hope it's a Oh so do you know what
to send it to?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Have to do something like that?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, so I know where to send it. I just
got a bunch of stuff. Yeah, converted. Okay, yeah, a
few months ago. Stuff that I had been having sitting
for like a couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah, yeah, Well I just I just got those photos
because somebody gave me.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
The photographer gave me those photos.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You only seen one of them, but he gave me
the photos probably two three years ago, and I just said,
let me look at the resources because every time I
was calling, nobody was taking thirty five millimeters anymore slides.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And they wanted me to send it off for a month.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
But I found an app that allowed me to just
I just put it on the lighted plate, like you know,
I took a ring light through it on there and
you take a photo of it, and there it is.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Let me let me look at it again.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, if you slide through, you'll see some of the
other ones.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So he just the photographer brought him over.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I can't give it to you, but you can know
he gave me the thirty fives.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
But I couldn't get him developed fast enough in the
times that I wanted.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
To get it. You see that we road. He ain't
seen him yet. That's why I want to get I
want to get his.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Week, like, yo, let's make something happen.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, that's why I said, like he deserved to see
that first.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's part of his come
up right there.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh man, this is dope.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You see how we're looking.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, this is dope.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Bro.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Thanks shout out to uh the photographer Marby Bowden who
took that and gave it to me.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That's good photographer, reach out to you just caught up.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
With him now, he reached out today.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I got you had no idea.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, no, I know he had them, but I just forgot. Yeah,
it's just kind of forgotten. And that was a good thing.
He reached out. Like the whole package of it was
that plus some other stuff. And there you know when
I because at that time I used to go by
DJ deaf Right, and it was I just literally looked
at the phone one day and saw the number three
(35:16):
and said d E F And that's that's.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
My name, DJ F. So that's how I came up
with that name.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
And then after that I started going by Player, and
when I started, of course more rapping and solo, it
was Player and then the group came out Player. So
that's when this female named me poppy, and then I
had a bunch of guys saying, I ain't gonna call
you poppy.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So I just said e poppy or arrow poppy so
that it was more acceptable. Then that's kind of evolution.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know that that was That was brilliant because I
wouldn't have called you poppy either, but I called you
that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
It was a smooth, you know, little move, but yeah,
but yeah, but this, I know we missed a few things,
but yeah, like you had asked earlier, like even with
the Missy thing, that that.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Whole relationship came about by being prepared.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I was in New York.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I was working with I'm signed a seasack so my
that's my performance organization pro and we were at HIT Factory.
They have I don't know if it's still the same,
but at that time they were like on the fifth,
sixth floor where the HIT Factory was in New York
and or still is. I hadn't been there so long,
so longest shortest I heard that Missy was in the
(36:30):
building and I was working with a writer. I hurried
up and I already had CDs made and we went
and started asking questions. A bodyguard came out, shot out
Big Rob and the rest is history, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
So Putler older let me just kind of go into it.
I gave him the CD.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
The Texas thing worked for me. When he realized I'm
from Texas. He locked in because he was from Texas,
so you know, he made sure that all the numbers,
everything was there. I went back to Queens. I was
staying with my grandmother. By the time I got to Queens,
my grandfather said, hey, somebody named.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Rob kept calling. It was already late. It was late late,
that kind of out, you know.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Because you have to take like the E train all
this other crap to get the Queens and then you
know all and so it was probably like twelve midnight.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
So I called Rob back.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
He said, Man, Missy wants you come back up here,
so it's try to take a taxi. You know, she
want to meet you to take a taxi. I ain't
get back home till like seven the next morning, cause
that's how she worked. And we just locked in right away.
Day one locked in.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
What's that work ethic like like being in that studio
with her?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Well, number one, she'll kick you out when she's doing
her thing.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
You ain't finna be in there. It's her and the engineer,
but you know, and the engineer. Yeah, sometimes just her.
She'll run a border.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
She has no producers, that's it. Nobody.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No, she will kick you out. She don't want your opinion.
Another day. We used the bump pears all the time.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You know, it's like like, just y'all, you don't like
that or whatever whatever, you know that type of bump
he is, But.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
No, you ain't gonna be so.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Once she locked increatively, that's it. Everybody got to.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Get Everybody got to get out. Everybody gets out. Yeah,
it's everybody off the thing. You're sitting out there, all
you hear that's it, through the through the walls. You
ain't hearing her. Yeah, you're gonna hear that music. If
she turned it up, that's it. And should we should
bite you back in when she done.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So, when y'all bumped hiss, what'd y'all bump he is over?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Oh? Bump here would be the wrong thing.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
But I know, like on Pussycat as an example, when
the rap came on, I was like, but.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
It worked out fine. So at that time, you know,
she just was way ahead. You feel me. So I
was looking at her like huh.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
And then she was like, you know, we was We
had like at that time, I would say, a brother
sister type of vib So she would just talk about me,
talk about me, talk about me, and I come back
at her as best as I can without insulting without
getting kicked out, right.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
So so so.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
We're just back and forth like that and eventually, yeah,
it is what it is, her decision, so I'm just there.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
But she taught me a lot.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
It's kind of sounds some of the stuff you know,
that I got from her is like just not working
on with everybody. So that's why, like a lot of
times until to this day, I kind of like turned
down a lot of projects.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It was just not you know, horn your name out
basically things like that.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Because I would call her at that time when we
were you know, with each other often and say, hey,
I just left this label and they want this, and
then she's like no, no offense, no meaning no offense
to them, And then she broke down why and some
of these people got names, you know, but she just
was like that we ain't doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I'm here to learn. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, you also work with Dallas Austin, Right, yeah, and
who what what producer have you worked with that did
you believe that had the most impact on your career.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Impact? You know what, who's a unknown known Rick Knowles?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Rick Knowles, Yeah, he's a he's he's more of a
in the UK market, but he's like La Santa Monica.
We did, we did some stuff. We did a record
call back to the music for a vv Brown. She
was a Vanessa Brown. She was she had a conflict
in her whole thing. She was signed to Polydor or
something like that in the UK and she had like
(40:21):
three labels like in a scope, you know, in whatever,
so that became a conflict. But we did what was
supposed to be her single at that time and it
was a nice experience with him.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
I would just off top, but I think everybody that
I've worked with, Rodney Jerkins man, I mean yeah, I
would say Rodney, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a beast.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Rodney Rodney Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Just his musical like ability that was, you know how
he could just go in play everything.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
What's his energy like when he's making the beast because
some some he acquired and it just just like a
mad scientist, just moving stuff and then some of them
black n end up moving around and stay back.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
He's laid back, but just control the heat. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, is that how Dallas Austin is too, because he
has that laid back the meaning.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
We were working on Black when I was out there
with him, and then he had JT money at that time.
We're working on that as well.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Just I was just.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Getting in what I fit in, So you know, wherever
I get in, I'm doing songs, doing records whatever. But yeah,
that was that was That's what I you know, to
come up was like that, and I think you still
should do that now as if you're trying to come
up as a producer, you need to get in where
you're gonna fit in. Try not to commit. You know,
people make you, try to lock you in, but just
try not to commit and just keep moving.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Go to boys. Reloaded podcasts will be right back after spot.
Let's talk about some of your business endeavors. Man, Like
you are a serious business man. I mean you you
got your hands and a lot of a lot of stuff. Yeah,
(42:03):
what what are you doing right now that you can
brag about?
Speaker 4 (42:08):
I'm helping artists actually, as well as other companies and
my girls run like e comm businesses. So I'm showing
them how to make money, still be at home, you know,
and not be stressed, so to say. So we've been
I've been teaching them skills from you know, just online marketing,
you know, everything that's going to take to market that
(42:29):
finding products, you know, and then exploiting those products on
the different various platforms and then getting a bunch of sales.
Can you be amazed how you know one hundred thousand
could just rack up just from twenty dollars sales or
two hundred dollars sales. It just is what it is.
So right now, that's that. But you know, if you
know me, I've been in you know, real estate things
(42:49):
like that, and all of that has its ebbs and flow.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
You know, it's it's, uh, look at what's happening right now.
I went through that.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, let's say five hundred dollars. I want to
get into the e commerce business. What's a good lane
for me? Like, you know, is it is it selling clothes?
Is it selling products? On Amazon?
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Well here's the issue with Amazon's let's start there, little
start and stop. We actually started on Amazon. One of
the issues that people don't widely discuss is that with Amazon,
you're not going to keep or customer retention, so the
customer's information, they keep that, so you don't receive any
of that. So you may find, you know, a water
bottle and it may sell a lot. They're gonna hit
(43:38):
you with the fees and everything else, and then once
that product is selling, they gonna compete with you. They're
gonna sell about themselves.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Yeah, so you and that playground. So that's the issue
with it. So, yeah, you could make a little money there.
You probably make a lot of money, but it's not
it's not long. You're not building a brand or something
that you could turn around and sells. So with the
five hundred, we would it's not really what your passion
or anything is because what you're passionate about may not sell, right,
So we're going to find, uh, you know, if you
(44:06):
just want to do a winning product, you know, I
would show you ways to find that winning product.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
There's apps and everything for that.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Now we start you on some e commerce site, you know,
Shopify or whatever, or we can build your own site,
you know, on your own HTML.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
You know, what's the most economical way to do it
up up front, because you can always.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Shop yeah, shopify and drop shipping or something like that,
and then find a winning product and then you can
just start.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
If you want to brand it with your own you
can do that as well.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Why not just go to let's say Costco or Sam's
Club and buy buy the products that's selling the most
and then ship them to an Amazon warehouse and then
get paid like that.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Because the same same out the aforementioned it's the same circle.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
So by the time, so when you go into Amazon,
you have to do Amazon uh fulfillment by Amazon, So
you have to pay for the cube square foot on
that that what you're using for the warehouse space.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Right, Oh, they make the merchants pay for the space
that the products take up. Why not, absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
You're paying for the space.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
So you just can't have two thousand books just sitting
on and they're not selling or whatever you.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Pay unless they change your pass.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
You're paying for that real estate and you're paying them
for to sell and ship. Yeah for a year.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Yeah, all that's you're going to put in your price though,
so you'll make it back through your you know, you
make it.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Back, so it's not it's not an evil process. It's
just that you're not going to retain that customer.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
And that's what's important because like a lot of times,
what I'm showing people that I'm working with, who I'm
helping build their brand is that email list.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
The open rate is still there.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
It's still especially for musicians, Like when it comes to
like some of the musicians I'm working with, the open
rate is.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Like twenty three that's pretty good on the emails.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So now what do you mean by open rate that.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
People are open and checking the email and reading through it.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Okay, yeah, oh yes, there's like a maybe twenty six
percent open rate. So you know, every hundred that we
send out, twenty six of them open, some people are clicking,
there's a great percentage of them.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, and how many of them are actually buying out
of that twenty six percent.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
It's a good I'd take three to seven percent from there,
which is a good return because we just keep sending
because you you know the ones who didn't.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
There's there's funnels that we put in place.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
So and if you ever noticed how you would probably
on a website and then you get an email or
something saying, hey, you know, we'll take five percent off
of this because you know who want you to come
back blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
So we have those funnels in place to bring these
people back.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
But that's what I'm saying, Like, when we capture this
information from the sms, meaning their their phone numbers all
the way to the email addresses, we're able to retarget them.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I can create lookalike audiences for them. So what is that?
What does that mean? Everything?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Or your characteristics when it comes to you online, even
your demographics of you know who you are, all that
it's online trusting belief. So if I'm looking for someone
like yourself, these systems, their algorithms have an ability to
go produce a million or five million of you who's
likely to buy, and you know, the law of averages
(47:26):
is going to just exist with that.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
So I just found it being real easy, you know,
to go into e comm We are my girls, my
wife and myself. We went in about twenty eighteen and
we've grown run a few brands or we're starting you know.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Nice. Yeah nice. That's good money, man. That internet money
is some good money.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Man, it is.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah. Both you and I have had moments in MLM
in the past. Are you still doing mL.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
And so so here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
As you may know, I think I got you into one.
I'm still doing it, but not meaning that there's requirements
to keep in uh in your your your income.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But one of the companies that still in one of
them from the past. Yeah, you're still getting residuals from that,
That's what I'm talking about. So you still have to
hustle it.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
Well, I have to keep a customer in every ninety days,
so making sure I meet that minimum requirement.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, so what kind of residual that is that?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Looking like I'm a six figure earner in there.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
So yeah, so still six figures a year.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It's it's reduced significantly.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
We need to look into why, but it's it's uh,
it's significant people.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I think so, and then you're not working it. Yeah,
exactly so front either, so numbers probably getting smaller.
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah, but you got to realize that company, that that
business I worked for six months, I worked for six months,
only worked six months and as you see, I mean, hey,
screw a nice team, damn.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
And that was what like eight yeah, two thousand and
eight nine, so aroun there Yeah, yeah, it's still today checks.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yeah, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
So I know some people are against m Alumi, but
this obviously, this particular one we're talking about, which we're
not mentioning it was. It wasn't a product, you know,
it was a product on like any other let's just say,
like that for a service, you know. So therefore it
made all the sense to do it. I think that's
even why you saw it. It was like this makes sense. Yeah,
(49:30):
it's a must have.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, we go yeah, yeah, man, I take a chance
on business, like I don't gamble. I don't do the
regular gambling like I'm not I'm not going to Vegas
to play. I'm not shooting no craps, I'm not playing
black jack, and I've done that in the past, but
I'm not doing none of that. I haven't did that
(49:53):
chance gambling like that in over twenty years. But I
will gamble on business. And I think that one of
the huge misconceptions in business is people think that it's
supposed to be easy. They think it and they think
it's not supposed to be a risk.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Well, not only that at the time.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
If I didn't have an understanding or just you know, family,
because it would just be a problem. I can tell
you that because I put a lot of hours into this,
Like even right now with one of our businesses, it
started as you know, me the girl's wife, and it
now seemed like it's just me and then my wife
kind of like I'm gonna help you, right, But it's
(50:36):
grown so much and the income has gotten like every
time I set a goal, say you know what, you know,
maybe we can get here, we get it.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
So it's to the point where I had.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
To cut stop my ads because we would implode. Damn yeah,
because we can't handle the the you know.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
What I mean.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
So we had to really cap it, you know, you know,
say you know what I mean. I want to put
a number on it, but you.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Know, we had to cap it where we ca right
now because we don't.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Have so why not skill? Why what ask people there?
Speaker 3 (51:03):
You go?
Speaker 4 (51:04):
So right now I'm looking into doing some vas and
so forth and on. But some of the products that
we're selling take it's not just buy this bottle and go.
I need to take some information from you, you know
what I'm saying. So let's say if it's a specialty item,
or let's just throw out some random let's say it's
a shirt in your name, is supposed to be on it, right,
So I need to get your name, I need to
get this, you know, the different measurements from you for
(51:26):
some of these items. So every if it's one hundred
sells today, that's one hundred phone calls. And you know,
everybody answering their phone, so that's another issue. So you know,
just get in touch with people, texting them, calling them,
all that good stuff, just to make sure you know so.
But I find myself doing a lot of that. So
now yes, answering that, why not? You know, we're at
(51:47):
that point now. I just had to see some consistency
because when you step into this game as an entrepreneur
of e commerce, the easiest thing is to try to
run everything yourself or learn as much. So that's when
I talked about like teaching them things about marketing. They
don't necessarily want to do some of this, but I'm
saying these are skills that if this company, we decided
to stop that company or that company, you now had
(52:09):
that skill that you can go do it for will
It Y or whoever else, whether he was marketing his
music or whatever. Marketing is marketing. It's just you know
how and where, So learning how to market in these places.
But bringing this back up overall, it takes a lot
of time. And when you're sitting online and somebody telling
(52:29):
you how easy E comm is, they line, they tail on.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
It's a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
They're trying to get that.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Yeah, they're trying to get that bag out of you,
which some of them are deserving. They give you some
good information, but some is just regurgitate. They just learned
it while watching the last video repackage it. You know,
probably bought some PLR you understand what that is?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think, hold on, let me think, if I let
me see if I can get this p L R
p L Are.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
You the first one say private? Yeah, so L is
listing label.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Oh damn, now I got and I got the R
left I got, I got private label. Who you almost
had private label? It's not retail private label, not registered
(53:25):
private label.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
You right there, you're about to sput it out.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
All right?
Speaker 3 (53:31):
What rights?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 4 (53:33):
So you could have created an entire package and you're
giving me the ability to white label it or whatever,
you know, just put my name on it and sell it.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
His mind.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
So a lot of that I'm seeing, even to the
point where I bought to the same thing from two
different people, like and I had to give him money
back on it, you know, and is what it is
because when you're saying I bought, yeah, we had to
step in here and start educating myself. Will be be
educated through you know, those masters around and so far.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
And some people want them back for their services. We
ain't talking about nothing cheap.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
Like the first one I almost got in they wanted
like thirty four thousand dollars to learn Amazon.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I was about to give it to him. I was
like right there because they had some guarantees.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Because you're gonna make millions. Thirty four thousand ain't nothing
if you you know, if you got it, if you
got that kind of money, and they tell you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (54:22):
Make money, yeah, they'll financially give me.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
They'll financial for what they say, give me two thousand
a month.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Uh no, not by yourself.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
They're gonna put you with a bank or get you
some credit cards and pull it off of there. They
got all kinds of ways, man. What Yeah, they ain't playing. Yeah, yeah,
they're gonna show you how to get some line of credit.
They're gonna pull it right off of their financing like that.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah. Yeah, but oh that's how yeah yeah, because now
in your mind you're thinking like, well I can get
that up because I'm gonna be making so much money.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
That's gonna cut. That's the trick for it.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
It's gonna cut.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
By yourself in debt. Man. Yeah what I'm saying, Yeah,
like no joke. Yeah yeah. So it's like that, but.
Speaker 4 (55:01):
It's that world is so good because there's no limits
on you know, what you can sell and where you
can be. You know, my first my first experience in
there was actually before that on eBay and I found
myself somehow selling women's adult toys. But I wasn't individually
(55:22):
selling them. I found a supplier through like Ali bah Bah,
and I was bolk selling these things, you know, just
the whole box.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
It's called a lot.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
They used to call it business business. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well whoever was bonding they were buying it. Yeah, I
was just on ebase. I don't know my but what
happened is the supplier.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
They realized he's ordering quite a bit and fast, and
they realized, oh no, they ain't do that.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
They did it worse. They put the product on eBay.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
Themselves and undercut me when they found Yeah, so I
had to stop it because I couldn't compete with whoever
was buying this stuff from me.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Now that can get it in my price or lower. Yeah,
and that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (56:06):
So that was in twenty fifteen, twenty fourteen, fifteen, Yeah,
and then by the circle back in eighteen. That's when
I was like, yo, let's let's do this Amazon thing.
And then we just started finding Shopify doing our own stores,
and then we started doing print on demand, which is
basically like.
Speaker 3 (56:24):
I mean, I can do anything on print on the
mand just like like this.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
This was print on the man. It's a whole other backband,
you know what I'm saying. This is one of the
brands that I got for this rapper out of Jamaica,
and he's been internationally selling that and doing doing a
great job with it too. So we're building up his
brand and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Hold it up again, yeah, hold it up to catch
it on the camera. Polishing polished. Yeah, that's nice man.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Thanks. So yeah, this guy he was you know, I'll
share with you some of that apparel as well. But
you know, it's all about expansion and not doing too much,
you know, like one of the brands we did. We
just started.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
We launched an online magazine and also a physical hard copy.
So it's a good way for in this game you
want to have what's the options? Were not the options,
it's called when when people are what's the word for this?
Social proof? So another form of social proof. We decided
(57:24):
to with that brand, start magazines and put these magazines
like what so in places that like high sit areas
like doctor's office, uh, you.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Know, on and on and on.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
So we put these magazines in there people could thumb through.
But what they're they're not only looking at great fashion
and things that they can buy, got QR codes right there,
but they're also seeing customer reviews, real customers, their reviews,
their experiences. And with that company, we interview the customers,
so even when you get to see it online, you're
(57:54):
watching the customers experience. So it's just a different form
of uh you know, of that social proof that's necessary
to help you sell a product. But we put it
in the form of like you know, magazine and things
like that, so just you know, coming with a unique twist.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
It either works or it doesn't. We got to try,
you know, I mean, or do it.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
But yeah, that's but back on the time, It's a
lot of time into this I put, man, I feel
like twenty hour days sometimes, like no joke into this,
you know.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
So it is what it is, you know, on to
the next at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, how long have you and your wife been Marria.
Speaker 4 (58:29):
Ooh married it since two thousand and five, so yes,
eight eighteen years.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Eighteen years. Yeah, that's a nice run, man. Yeah. I've
been around your family, you know, you seem to have
a very you know, nice cohesive, loving family. What do
you think about all of this back and forth bantering
bickering going on between black men and black women online.
Speaker 3 (58:55):
There's gonna be the issue.
Speaker 4 (58:57):
They can say what they want to say, but the
reality is they're not moving it, you know, and they
could try it and they're gonna just regret it at
the end of the day. As a species, I think
we need to you know, co mingle and co create
and all that good stuff. But I get it because
I do have you know, maybe I'm gonna say two
thirds now, probably about a half a half of my
friends are single, whether it be female or male, and
(59:18):
they either tried things before and it didn't work. But
it just comes down to like learning how to like
be with people, you know, learn how to you know,
just agree, learn when to shut the fuck up, all
things like that, you know, so, or let somebody play
their position. If you didn't notice, even when I said
when I was in the studio, if I'm with some
if I'm with someone like this.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
I'm gonna shut up, I'm gonna listen. I'm a play.
So it's the same thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (59:40):
You know, so if you're gonna get this man, let's
say from the woman point, if you're gonna give him
that floor, give him the floor.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Let him even if.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
You know you could run circles all around this dude.
Just let him feel like he you know what I'm saying.
Maybe that because when he feel respected that he should
be showing it back, you know.
Speaker 3 (59:56):
So, how do I feel about all this?
Speaker 4 (59:58):
I think the problem is issue within a black community,
is it's going to result in less everything, less wealth building,
less kids, but more drama.
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, man, you hit the nail on
the head. I do not understand it whatsoever. And the
trip part about it is a lot of it is
coming from people who purport to be educated. They act
like they're smarter than everybody else. A lot of these
people have platforms, and people are going there listening to
(01:00:32):
these people, and they're putting people who shit couldn't even
read read out loud in class on that platform to
give advice about people's lives.
Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Let me add to that. I'm not going to call
anybody out, but some of these people are very impressionable
and influential in their wording and how they can give you.
I'm almost say, a cinematic view of you know, just
through their expressions of how life is, and they probably
haven't even lived, you know some of it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Some of these people are young. But what I'm saying
is if I were young and listening to that, I
wouldn't have been married.
Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Yeah, I just it just wouldn't because I would have
That's how impressionable.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Some of this is that you just scared to move,
but you know, you just got to find the right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
One, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Everybody want to be held against and everything, and they
scared of love. Explain that to me, I can't. Yeah,
I know some of the people the hardest dudes, but
then they're scared to get their heart broke, so they
choose to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
You know, well, I think everybody's scared. I know what
you're saying. You can take your money, you can praise
it your money. I think everybody's everybody's afraid to get
their heartbroken. But you know, if it's like lot or
you gotta be in it to win it. If you
want love, if you want if you want love, if
you want a good healthy relationship, you got to be
in one. You got to be in a relationship first
(01:02:02):
of all to give it a chance, to give that
a chance.
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
Okay, you've played sports and you practice, right, So was
the last chick practice or was it?
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
You know, meaning like, hey man, you got y'all gonna
have to just get in here and exercise and learn
how to like do life. Because I'm the same guy
who I got some of the same friends from pre
K so something about me is working or just maybe
I'm a workable guy. Right, So then I got people
that I just don't agree with. But I'm not hard
to get along with. And you understand this. So obviously
(01:02:33):
in some cases it's not me, but maybe it is.
But my point is, we just got to learn to
like be with each other. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I think the fundamental, the fundamental aspect of this is
just simple respect, because everything starts with respect. And I
see even the way how they talk to each other
online some some of the things that they say, like,
you know, the biggest problem with the black community is
(01:03:04):
the black woman. Right there, you already lost, You already
you're lost. And I ain't talking about lost the argument
you're lost. The biggest problem in the black community is
the black man. You're lost. And these are people, a
lot of them, you know, they're hurt. They're really just hurt,
and they don't know. They haven't been taught how to communicate.
(01:03:24):
They haven't been taught conflict resolution, and they're too proud
to listen. They're too proud to want to learn. But
at the same time, many of these people they're raising girls,
but they hate women. They have daughters, but they hate women.
They have sons, but they hate men. How you gonna
(01:03:46):
hate that which your son is to become? How are
you gonna hate that which your daughter is to become?
These people are delusional. There is something wrong with them.
It's a mental illness. It really is a mental illness.
Because we can't we have survived and won a lot
(01:04:06):
of wars, agenda war. We cannot we cannot win agenda war.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
So again, do you think that this is on a
conspired level of speaking? Is just planned?
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
It was, It has been planned, it planned, and it's
still being planned. But the problem is a lot of times, man,
when you're when you're fed something constantly, it's propaganda. When
you're fed propaganda. And on top of that, it's not
just words. These people actually implemented certain things to make
(01:04:40):
sure that they are able to divide us. You know, uh,
you know welfare, you know, uh, crack cocaine, school prison pipeline.
I mean the school, the school to prison pipeline.
Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
You know, believe it or not. I got friends who
will argue on that.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Red line, everything you can think of. They intentionally these
things to divide us. But here's the thing. After a while,
sometimes you can become so traumatized by something that you
actually start to believe whatever that propaganda is. You actually
(01:05:16):
start to believe it yourself. Somebody tell you ain't shit
long enough, you start thinking you ain't shit, you know,
And so is a man thinking you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Yeah, well, there's no argument with what you're saying. Is
just that as we identify the problem, what do we have,
what can we provide as a solution?
Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
We start with self. See, everybody got to start with self.
See a lot of us were sitting back waiting waiting
on the woman to do it, or we're sitting on
waiting waiting on this person to do it to that person.
Doing two things can happen at the same time. We
can't walk into bubble gum at the same time. The
very first thing you need to do is work on
yourself first and foremost. Most people who are in relationships,
(01:06:00):
in my opinion, are not qualified to be in a
relationship because they don't have the tools. They don't have
the resources to deal with rejection and conflict resolution. They
should not be in relationships. You should get yourself together first.
If you have a hot temper, you don't, you shouldn't
be in a relationship. If you're if you're incapable of compromise,
(01:06:21):
it's my way of the highway, you shouldn't be in
a relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
But the same person probably is difficult even in a
business relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
So when it goes into it, it goes back to
what you said, self reflection and making those adjustments because
if somebody's hot at home, in the boardroom or just
in the locker room, they the same.
Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
But watch this. Some people are so caught up and
getting to the bad that they have a money over
everything mentality. So when it comes to their jobs. So
when it comes to their jobs, they know how to
acquiesque to their boss's demands. They know how to do
(01:07:06):
what they told they're told on the job because it's
a bag attached. They know this is how I get
my money. This is my bag. I'm talking about men
and wealth. They know how to they know how to
acquiesque when it comes to getting that bag when they
when they're on the job. But when they go home
and they're they're they're significant other, this person that they're
(01:07:27):
supposed to be building a life with a generational wealth
with and raising human beings with. Ask something of them
is a problem.
Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
Now, is that because the job has a consequence, it's
gonna affect their livelihood as far as financially versus you know.
Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
The job.
Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
The job has consequences that will affect their life financially.
But the relationship, an intimate relationship, uh a committed relationship
has implications that could affect your life, not just your bag,
(01:08:08):
but your life, your quality of life. Do you know
that there have been people who have worried themselves to
death in relationships. People have lost their minds, and and
and and and committed suicide. Most people who have committed suicide.
If you compare work to to intimate relationships, it's no,
(01:08:34):
it's not even a comparison. People can get over losing jobs,
but it's very hard for them to get over losing
another human being, their significant other. You know. So we
put we put too much emphasis on getting to the
bag because a lot of us we have we we
(01:08:54):
got the money, but we but we're lonely. We're in
these big houses, win these big cars. We got the bag,
but we're lonely, and we try to mask it with
buying stuff. We try to buy stuff to help us
get through it. And the people on the our side
(01:09:18):
see that, and they see how we're living. They just
see the bag. They don't see what we see behind
closed doors. They just see the bag. So they get
caught up in the bag. And even if you tell
them money ain't everything, you know, what they're saying, well,
just give me your money. Let's see if money is everything.
The only time people say that is when they got money. Duh.
Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
I mean that's telling you like, you know, but overall, Yeah,
don't just disagree with what you're saying. It's just that
I'm the type I'm looking for. How are we far gone?
That's what I want to know, Like, are we just
far gone? Or do we have to start teaching these kids,
you know, through meat, through our own media, you know,
(01:10:03):
producing our own whatever we gotta do to start impressing
that mind, because I think some of us are far gone.
Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
We're just stuck in away.
Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
I'm not going to put an age on you know,
Kevin Samuels type talk or nothing like that. I just
think some are far gone and then some just hadn't experienced,
you know, a life with a good person. And it's
gonna come down to probably attracting that. I know they
getting to some mo who But I mean, just if
you're putting out this frequency, then you're just gonna get
back what you're putting out, you know, so that.
Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Some of the people are not good people themselves, so
that you attract what you are.
Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
That's basically what it comes down to.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Yeah, yeah, but you've done pretty good, attracting some good
people in your life. Man, And so that's why you're
in the position you are, and that's why you continue
to put that big pearly white on us like you do, man, white,
just like it's smarting because you know, life is good.
Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
And know, I mean it's not, it's you know what
it's on the mind because I find myself complain and
at times and I have to check myself and say,
what are you doing is because sometimes I see myself
going here and I'm gonna say here, and it's taking longer.
But that's just you know, enjoyed and I forget to
enjoy the journey. But you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I've done that, man, I've done that. I don't do
it anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
I was doing it the other day. I have to
check myself.
Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
The other day. I remember, you know, back in the nineties,
I'm sitting at the house and I'm going through a
little minor, minor depression because I'm thinking, like, things ain't
happening fast. I'm doing good, but it ain't happening fast enough.
Well I want to go. You know, it ain't happening
(01:11:42):
fast enough. So I'm you know, I'm upset. I look
at the windows. I look at these Florida ceiling windows
in my house, and I see people walking on the
golf course, and I see these big, old, two hundred
year old oak trees. And I look out and I
(01:12:03):
see my custom pool and waterfall. It's just water is cascading,
and and I look within myself and I say, you're tripping, bro,
you're tripping. You know. I'm not where I want to be,
but thank god, ain't where I used to be.
Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Thank you for coming on the show man, thank you,
any last words, any last words?
Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Hey, just thank you for having me. And uh, you know,
we'll do this again. We'll just do it.
Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
We should with some intense focus on a certain topic
and subject to bring to the people that we can
just make sure we find a way to impact the
mental you know, change the way they think.
Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Well, what you sound like, Stevie wonder boy right there?
Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
All right?
Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Thank you, Thank you ladies and gentlemen. The Man, the Myth,
the listen, eat Poppy all right.
Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
This episode was produced by a King and brought to
you by the Black Effect Podcast Network at iHeartRadio.
Yet you know boys is back and rediod it all
in your mind.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, now deep throating.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
This is for the streets, the real the railroading, the
distan franchise, the truth escapegoating, and they ain't know when
we speak the truth, so they quoted because we wrote it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
The North South East Coaches.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
The ge be mocked for keeping your head, Bobby, it
ain't no.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Stopping and once to be drops head by then the
system is so corrupt they threw the.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Rock out their heads and then blame it on us.
Don't get it twisted on coding. We danced to put
no butterment biscuits. It's Willie d y'all get old Boys
in the house back with another episode of information and
instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world.
In the studio, Earl E. Poppy mccallar Jr.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Key, Hey man, thanks for happening, man.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Absolutely, Man, it's always nice to sit down and chop
it up.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
With Hey, it's all good. Thank you for the compliment.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, man, you are a serial entrepreneur, did you know.
I think it's fair to say, hey, yeah, I've been
knowing you for a while, so I know your many businesses,
any successful businesses, but before all of that, and you
were one of the men that were responsible for some
of the biggest hits that we had an opportunity to
(01:24):
rock to where gases don't Danny boogie. But you know
what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, at least make Love to or
something like that, right, right.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right, right right, man, Uh, drop some of your credits, man,
I know what they are.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
But I mean, we got you know, Beyonce, They're interestingly
in love, we got the Pussy Cabin, Cy Elliott.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
It's a independent woman. I was a co writer on that.
Truth hurts.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I didn't know you wrote.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, I got the River to work on that. So
as a matter of fact, we can go into that too.
I got right now, I have seven titles that I
have the River to work on. So people don't know
that I've was behind some major records. But you know
some of those are you know, almost put classified as
a ghost writing position, so you know it's not really
ghost writing.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Let's talk about derivative work since.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
We talked about that, but we'll bring it up later
because that is maybe something that you want to get into.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Let's talk about it now, all right, Before we get
off track.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
So sometimes you get these especially back and then when
I would write and do all these writer sessions, you
get a lot of writers in and they'll start creating
with you. So whenever work is created from that original record,
that's and they go and change it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
That's a derivative work, right, So what So.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
That happened a lot of times where I'm in and
out of different camps obviously, and somebody may take an
opportunity with another producer, say hey, I wrote this song,
I co wrote this song, and all of a sudden
they trying to start trying to strip my stuff off
that I've helped and go bring it to another producer
because they may have a better chance. You know, I
can't hate them on that. But there's a way that
the business works.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I mean, give me give me my money.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, you know a lot of people they jumping this
with the tech and the don't know the business. See,
I made sure I lay it up and everything from
the chop, so I knew, I knew. I read a
lot of books and that's when I actually that's when
I first learned about the rivers work, and I took
it to my attorney and then we just want to
have to all these records.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, so basically it's derivative. Work is derivative, which is
derivative of the word derived. Absolutely, So it all starts
with you making music or something, sometimes in collaboration with
someone else, but as a person, a person that works
in your camp may decide, Okay, I'm going to take
(03:34):
this and I'm going to embellish it with another artist,
or just put my name on it.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
No, that would be stilling if they just put their
name on it. But in the case, let's say you know,
you and I we get in, we lock in, we
do something. You're not not got a hook.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Let's say, right, and you didn't take this and you say,
you know what, I like this track that he did.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Maybe maybe it was old, maybe it was just a
year or two old, five years old, and you decide
to take that song dated with somebody else. I now
own a piece of that record, though, because your lyric
and melody derived from my music.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I think that's what I was trying to say. I
just I guess I was articulating your audience, basically just
saying basically, this music that you had, you put a
footprint on, you had something to do with that, but
there was the elements that's in the original, absolutely the
original composition.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
And in the case of the one I just mentioned,
like I had some real weird clown music, I was
going for a different style.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
My my production company was Playhouse, and I used to
have this like treehouse type of concept with these kids.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
You know.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
I created these animated characters to go with it, sounds
and all that. So I was going for this real corny,
goofy sound, and it was real cheesy. That record would
have never been what it is if the producers didn't
redo it. When they heard it, they heard the potential
of what the topic was, so they redone that record,
and it's a smash.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
You got your money, yeah, yeah, got money.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
As much as they as much as they paid until
they stopped. Yeah yeah, well yeah, it's all how.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Does that go? Somebody owe you money?
Speaker 4 (05:05):
And that was just a passive joke, I meaning like
until they it won't stop obviotually it's coming through performing royalties, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
it's coming to get that money.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
The p r os handled that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And it's not even about being money hungry, you know,
being greedy it's just a by getting what's belonging to me? Correct,
you know it.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Always happened though, yeah, I mean me because you got
to realize we're in the industry. We got some big
sharks out there, right, So a lot of times I
had to just play my position.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I've had songs taken all kinds of things like that.
But I have to choose.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Do I want to go in that battle and never
work again, or I just want to sit quiet, take that,
take that al and move on.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Now. When you were making the music with Destiny's Child,
was you in the studio with the girls? Yes, yeah, yeah,
what's that vibe? Like?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
I mean, if you want me to start with B
I have still to this day, never been with somebody
as detailed and and uh just it's all you have
to be in there to really see what happened that
when our first song happened, we were at we actually
were in Houston and we were at what's the name
of the.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Studio, what street? I'll tell you what it was.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
That's a big studio, oldest studio. I can't believe he's
gonna be mad that I forgot this studio.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Tell me the street, I help you out.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
It's kind of in this area. It's uh in this area. Yeah,
hold on, let me see.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
A big studio in this area.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Damn Bookman is over there.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Oh oh yeah, I see.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, that's what happened to me just now.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, well, well well we call it the takeover that.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Oh no, I'm thinking no, excuse me, I butchered his name, yeah,
said Danny book white guy glasses.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh, I butchered him. Were gonna have to go back
on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You're talking about sugar Hill, thank you? Yeah, yeah, so
let's run it back.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
And so yeah, we ended up at sugar Hill on
the first on our first session, and we just got
into a writer session. And that was a funny moment
for me because I had a record that was kind
of like a It was banging. It was supposed to be,
matter of fact, even go into some lessons from here too.
So I started playing tracks. Oh, they chose one. It
(07:20):
had like a tumbling vibe sound to it. I was
playing some guitars on it, and you know, I had
one of my co writers in there with me, and
he wrote a song that I hated. I just hated
that song. So everybody in there trying to you know,
get the vibe on B. You know, no shot of
anybody else. She was out working everybody. Okay. So after
a while they couldn't come up with anything that anybody
(07:42):
would just locking into. So my guy said, hey, I
got something that's hot. So he ended up singing the
song to him. I looked at him like I wanted
to kill him, but they loved it so that it
was a song called hands off, and it was actually
to fast forward or going into that session what I
saw the ethic. They didn't have a sample or anything
at that time, or I forgot what it was, but
we couldn't fly the hook. B did every part over exactly,
(08:05):
so if I if I had a record for eight parts,
she went to the next hook.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
And did everyone exactly like the first. No, she was like,
I mean, she was knocking the miles. She was like,
all right, what you like that? Yeah, all right, cool?
Next and she's just knocking it off.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So now this is how I know you're not lying.
Back in the gap before the girls took off, I'm
at their house. I'm at the Knowle's house, the Nose's house,
and the girls are practicing and they're dancing. So right
(08:42):
after they finished Matt like, we wanted want to do
it again? Willie, I want to do He said, you want?
He said, you want to do it again? Will I say?
You know me, I'm a worker, Yeah, do it again,
because I want to see the commitment. Beyonce jumps up first,
just like that. She ready. The other girls, they you know,
(09:04):
they came along, but they were more they came along
more sluggishly, like it was more like, Okay, let's do it.
They didn't complain, but in their face they was like
you could tell that they were a little you know,
they were a little tired or whatever. But Beyonce may
have been tired, but man, she just jumped right back
in just like that. And the thing that I'd always
(09:27):
admired about her is that she's always been the lead,
and at least for the most part, she's been the
lead and her dad was the manager. She could have
easily been a really bad person, She could have easily
been a bad actor, and she could have been selfish
(09:50):
and spawled, but she never came across that way.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Ever.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I've never seen her look down on anybody play somebody.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
She knew, she knew that it was yeah, she knew that, Yeah,
she still you.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Know, but to all the girls. Credit, man, they all
of them, they all work the off.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I just have it as somebody you'd have to.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
So someone would say, big deal, she did all the
hooks of No, it was the level of commitment that
she put into that.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Correct, you should have seen it.
Speaker 4 (10:18):
It was only it was only something that would have
been worth seeing on tape or being that experience. Okay,
So but yeah, fast forward with that. That song was
supposed to be the first single for them, and through
politics they start changing.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Uh you know, because you deal with a lot of that,
especially with the old.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Mister Pops knows that you know, he wanted his way,
uh you know, so sometimes we don't agree and things happen,
you know.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
So that recor is still sitting in the archive right now,
but it's a hot one.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah. Now what was Kelly's like?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Oh, she was there, All of them were there. Just
they're doing what they need to do.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Really, to be honest with you, Beyonce was more so
instructing who's gonna do it part and they would just
do that part after she done.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
She done majority of it, right, So.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
This is this is Kelly beyond say Michelle, No, this
is this is before.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
That, because when I got together, yeah, all the girls get.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Together, yeah, LaTavia and LaToya LaToya.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah absolutely, yeah, yeah, So that was there and that
was in I will say this had to be in
ninety eight because, believe it or not, I got with
them through Missy. Missy is the one who introduced me
to them. I always used to try to get at
Matthew and at the time I didn't understand what I'm
trying to run up on them with tapes and everything.
You know, hey, check the out, checked out the CD.
He wouldn't take it because it's unsolicited work, you know
(11:37):
what I'm saying. So he wouldn't he wouldn't take it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I used to see him.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
I used to work at the music store and would
see him coming there time to time, try to give
him something. It ain't happened so long and short as
they ended up after I got with Missy.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I got with Missy, get in the system, yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Yeah, I got I got with her when I went
to New York obviously, and we can go into some
of that too, But I was I had just left
New York and I was in Atlanta and then back
into Houston. On this trip, you know, just making Beach
studio the studio, and they ended up coming to New
York and she kept raving about, hey, you need to
check out this kid from Texas, you know, on and
on and on, and that's when it happened.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So that hadn't been like ninety eight.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And Missy's opinion has weight.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Oh yeah, you got to realized she had just dropped
at that time. She just dropped her album that Super
super Fly.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Yeah, so I was. I was there with all that
girl all that yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So yeah, because they know Missy know it hit, yeah,
it hit?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So how did that relationship evolved with Missy?
Speaker 3 (12:37):
How did it come about? Or just eat?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean, you know, well, well, first of all, how
did it started? Then? How did y'all still being contact?
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Man?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Y'all still I haven't really you know, when I took
a hiatus, it seemed like a lot of people got
mad at me for even just leaving, you know what
I'm saying. But I just needed to, you know, raise
a family and do some normal stuff or what I
considered normal for me, at least for a minute, because
the industry could drop you in.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
You know, do you ever regret that, nah, man, Cause I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
If you sit with my family, sit with me and
see what's become of them and what's coming.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Then you done. Ustare. Okay, we got a whole new
round that we're about to you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Okay, Yeah, So I don't regret it because I knew
that I stepped in the game young at sixteen seventeen, so,
and I had a good run up until about twenty eight.
And my plan was always to retire at thirty three.
And I figured if I ever came back, I know enough,
know enough people, I could pull up another young one
or create a camp or do it myself again. No,
(13:33):
there's really no age on this producer thing, right, So
even right now as I step back in, you know
what I mean, here we go, and I got my
young ones with me, Like my sixteen year old female
right she's producing right now. She's already scored a movie gig.
She already got her first same Placens placement at sixteen.
(13:54):
So it's a movie coming out called ninety seven Minutes
with Alec Baldwin. Yeah, and she has the only song
that they chose in the movie other than that, Neim
Neim made the beat.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Nim made the beat. Yeah, how you spell.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Nim and I am and I am Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Nim made the beat.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yes, sir, okay, So I'm not to let you hear
somebody nim right right?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
See you get you shine on. You know, it's time
for it's time for another producer out of Houston to
rise above the crop.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, now what we're what we're looking for.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
When you say that, I think, and we'll go go
go back into some of the questions that you asked.
But when you say stuff like that Roseberger crop, I
think we need that, but it's gonna need to support
problem with. I think our whole, especially hip hop environment
is competition and this is creating.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
This is creation.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So why why should we always be competing? Because when
I compete, it puts us at odds. So that's why
I could never work with somebody long term because they
always started to compete rather than just co create.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Well, but I think competition for only competition is good.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
That's all the same. But it doesn't. That doesn't that's not.
That's good to say, but that's not what happens. I
have people that have tried to work with I'm not
competing with them, But then in their head, they're competing
with me.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Right And when I when I said, when I say
rise above the crop, I'm talking about you know, I'm
talking about average, a mediocre. I'm not talking about I'm
not talking about Oh, you know, we got a good
producer here, and these are good producers, but this guy
is better than everybody. And I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about we need, we need, we need more talent.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Coming up with the compliment to add into that I
was saying, but we as a community need to get
behind this person.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That's what I'm saying. We need to get behind them.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
That's not gonna what I what I realized about Houston
is you gotta got to just do it and whether
they whether they jump on it or not, you just
got to do it. And it's like and one one
of the things is that typically people in Houston, once
they hear somebody else is messing with you on the
e side of Houston, then it kind of validates you, like,
(16:04):
oh damn, they they jamming them in Memphis. Oh oh
they picking it up in Chicago like that today, Yeah,
let me jump on it. Let me see what this
is about. With our celest what happened with ghetto boars,
you know, like it was like man, Chicago on this,
Dallas on this absolutely you know, uh, you know Houston.
Houston was kind of you know how well, I can't
(16:25):
say that all the way about Houston with us because
Houston kind of accepted us immediately, so we kind of
had it like but we didn't get radio immediately everybody else.
We had to get radio. Hell day nuts on us
local radio.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Hell that.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
For some reason, I understood what you was talked about,
overstood what you were saying when you talked about used
reference to say Chicago, somebody else's I knew you were
talking about radio. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, because I know
that from the gate y'all y'all would you know it?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:54):
But yeah, just going back into some of the things
because we did leave a few, you know, crumbs here
and there. But I guess, you know, after I graduated,
that's when I started working at this music store.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I don't know if you remember Mars Music.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Mars Music where.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Was that h It was sixteen off for sixteen and
actually where the KG is now, that's where Mars Music
was a super center.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
It was like your.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Sam ash or H and H. But it was a
huge concept for this stage lighting and sound.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah it was. It was really more like
electronics and stuff and the sold out there. Yeah, but no, no, no,
when you said when you said Mars music, I was
thinking like they were selling selling music.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Right no they so yeah, yeah right yeah, all of
that stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, that type of stuff music as far as instruments
and stuff like.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
That after school, trying to do the school thing after school.
So the first went to my graduated high school. Eventually
I found myself over there for about six months before
the opportunities came about to go to New York. When
I went to New York, I was working with the
the short lived Crave Records. I don't even know if
that was Mariah Carey's label. It was from ninety seven
(18:05):
to ninety eight. They just started ninety seven, like March
or something like that. It was about March. By the
summertime I was out there, you know, they were looking
at me as an in house producer. We're putting everything
together and by the next year it fell out.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And what happened was it Mariah just.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I think you know obviously at that time she was
married to Tommy Matola, and I'm not sure if you
know that that issue between them, you know, I don't
want to speculate, but it just you know, her her
stuff went away, right. So, but I did a lot
of records over there that were coming out. They had
a group called the Lord, seven Mile Girl named Kesha.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
It was a lot of stuff. I was just working,
you know.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
So I had a lot of records about to come out,
and then the whole label just you know, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Michael Jackson said, tom and Motola was the devil.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
I don't know about all that. You uh no, no,
that's what i'maid. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Yeah, so I can't answer to that.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, I don't know, Mike said, Mike said. Mike said,
Timmy Mantlet is the devil.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Well, I mean I got people, My peoples know them,
and they don't say that.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
So oh yeah, yeah, all right, Okay, is he still active?
Speaker 4 (19:21):
I don't think so. I can make a text message, right,
you know, and we can find out just now.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was surprised that Jimmy Ivan retired.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Well, you know, all of them getting in age and
they want to do something else.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I enjoy something else. It is what it is.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I think it's at some point in time to come
to retire. Because when I stepped into this, like I
said from I was in the sixth grade when we started.
And I don't know if you know Zero started with me.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Like you got some zero beats, you got some zero music,
three albums with zero anything unreleased.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I'm talking unreleased.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
You got three zero albums unreleased.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, because we were a group. We were a group
like you Zero and who We went.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Through and I in middle school, we went through probably
about twelve of us in our final on this photo
I'm about to show you.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Uh yeah, that's just good trying too and all that
kind of stuff would just be probably.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
One here, shut that out.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
I have to go ahead find So that was that
when we finally and we finally just narrowed it down,
we said, okay, this is us for so myself, I
was djaying and producing another guy Boba, No, he was djaying,
Uh that guy. The other guy's name is Little Moody
and of course Zero right there. So and that's what
that's what Zero was talking about. He was on Vlad
TV and he mentioned it. He said hey, you know,
(20:48):
and again there's this evidence. So I need to send
him this because Vlad sounded like he had a hard.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Time believing him. But you know, but that we were
doing all this in middle school.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
But this I was like fourteen thirteen, fourteen right here, wow,
because the way I could trace it down because by
the time ninth grade came, it was only Zero and
I and then I got mad with the whole just
idea of this thing and stopped doing music.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
At that time.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
You get mad, oh man, I mean we had some
emotional roller coasters going on at that time. Many yeah, yeah,
as a group, you know groups, you know what it is. Yeah, yeah,
So so we had we had our differences creatively, more
so with Joe Joe.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Joe, you know, Zero was just like a brother.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
So but yeah, a lot of yeah that's what he's
that's why, you know, out of respect, he even you know,
mentioned me sitting on glad the whole nine of ten.
But yeah, I need to send him this stuff because
it's a good memorabilia. This is the start, you know,
I'm saying, this is right where he started with me
and everything else. But yeah, a lot of people don't
know that.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, go to boys reloaded podcasts will be right back
after the quick.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
What piqued your interest in music in the first place?
How old were you?
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I was probably eleven. Yeah. It was a competition actually
weird enough.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
My older sister, she didn't realize we had this you know,
civil excuse me this, uh, you know, just rivalry my
older sister.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
So every time she was good at something, I would
probably get jealous and I go get good at it
so she could she could draw.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
I got good with drawing. She started playing the keyboard.
I'll say, hey, so that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So I was a good b boxer going into the
sixth grade, and I was almost bullied, like zero and
all them. When I was be boxing, they you know,
beating on the table mixing it with that. They'd be rapping,
and they were like, you need to start producing. Huh
what they said, making beats, you know. So at that
point it was almost like they told me, not asked
me to. So obviously I started learning the keyboard just
(22:51):
to beat my sister, and uh, it just turned into beats.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah. And how many instruments do you play?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Nine?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Because I know you played multiple.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Yeah, yeah, nine instruments it mainly would win instruments because
I was in band. I kept moving around and then
you know, I started touching the brass, the drums, keyboard, guitars,
just like that stuff that's not relevant today for some reason.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, I mean it's relevant.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
But you know, do your kids play instruments.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
They want to play guitar. They want to play guitar,
like all of them want to take guitar. And they
were actually fussing at me the other day saying, why
did I stop teaching them how to play the guitar?
Speaker 3 (23:27):
But I'm like, I barely know myself. I play my
ear but you know it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, Niam, how good do you think she can be?
Speaker 3 (23:37):
I'm gonna I wish, I wish we had a slight
conversation about this before so you can hear. But put
it like this. Other songs were sent in for this soundtrack.
Hers was chosen.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
I sent nine songs to recently to Sony for Raisin Kanan.
Three of her songs was chosen for that. Right now,
it's slated and cut the check, but they pulled it down.
They told me, yeah, this looks good. This is three
So how good is she that good?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
M What kind of kid were you growing up? Like?
You know, like, were you like an inquisitive kid? Were you?
Were you bad? I didn't.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
On the surface, I didn't give trouble. But if you
knew me intimately, you knew I wasn't the one to
play with. But other than that, I look just as
innocent as I look today. But you know, but if
it's an issue, I've always been in a position where
(24:39):
it's like a phone call or something and the issues
go away.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So how did you get this cool down era in
your life? How did that come about? Because ever since
I've been on, ever since I've been on you, you know,
you've been a laid back dude.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Yeah, you know, I've always been chill to an extent.
There were times when I try to turn up and
I get put back in my place too. But so
maybe just a quick learner, you know, yeah, just a
quick learner. Especially you know, you get humbled real quick.
I remember I used to go back in the beats.
I'm here in Houston. You know, I'm playing against everybody,
(25:17):
this so called so called competition. It wasn't that, but
you know I could play beats and you're like, you like,
I need to go back home.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
I go to New York.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
I had to go back home, you know, because they
were whooping my tail with the sonic quality sounds, some
of these. You know, I'm in my mom's house, you
know what I mean, just knocking out something a little whatever,
Rudy Pool keyboard. These boys in the studio all you know,
two inch tape running their drums through. There, re sampling
it MPC three thousand, two thousands, everything else, and I'm
(25:45):
competing with all that.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
So I had to just get it up there, you know.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
So a lot of times, you know, I can say, quick, learner,
you step out with your chest out, get deflated, and
it's always still like that.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
So that's why I just learned to just.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Just what's it like. Working with Keisha?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It's great. She was.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I can go onto her stories, toms she she was.
I was the type of let me start here with me.
I was like this bully producer. So we had some
moments in the studio that she wouldn't appreciate. Okay, and
I say bully because I was trying to pull out
of her what I can uh and the best out
of her.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So well, your tactics that you used, what would you say, like,
because all producers try to pull the best out of you,
well different now you doing what is what is it?
What is it?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Insults all the way down to you know, I don't
really want to go into too much.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
How would go?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
How would a normal insult go? Like?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
What the fun was that?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Yeah, do that sh it again?
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Like you know, and then like because you're being in
the in the booth and you doing it and you
think you just gave.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
You better not do it again?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Do it again?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Uh, you know, things like that. So then it is
what it is?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
So that key she just took that, just took it.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
She didn't just take it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
I mean honestly she did. She was in a situation
she was still coming yeah so early yeah yeah. Like
the song that we one of the songs that we
did actually is what aided and helped her keep her
position at the label. Label was Clearing House and Ron
(27:32):
Fair because she came here to recorded.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
She was actually recorded at my house, so she stayed
with me for about two weeks.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
She recorded Your House.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
We did like five songs, but the two that we
put on the album is or We Could Be and
Never with Eve with Eve on that never too Much.
And I was also the first person I didn't know
that at the time to sample and get cleared Luther
Vanders record Never too Much. Yeah, and he got to
hear before he passed everything. He's going to improve it
now just as a reference.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That took all the right We thought he was gonna
get something. He took all of it, man, but it
was worth it. Yeah, it's all good. But yeah, that
record long short.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
When she got back to Cali at some point in
time later, as they were clearing the different roster of
artists and she was up for question, Ron ended up
hearing the record and he was like, when'd you do this?
And back We did like four versions of it because
I did, you know, like, I replayed it another myself
and another guy came in herm and little Yeah, he
(28:30):
came in with me. We replayed one version that didn't
make it. I did want all choppy like, very Kanye like.
Then I did want it's more like a straight record
than I and that's what you you know here that
made it.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
But I did like five versions of it, so long
and short.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
She played the version that Ron liked and that's when
he immediately ran over to the department that was doing
the soundtrack and Barbershop Too soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (28:52):
And they made that one of the lead singles for
Barbershop two.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
So and then that and then from there, Kanye did
the record with Changed My Mind and No, No, Yeah
We Go Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Tina Turner music icon recently died. Have you ever had
an opportunity to work with any of the icons from
the past, not not this the contemporary icons, but the
ones from the past, like those who are around back
in the sixties and seventies even eighties.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Mm hmm. Indirectly maybe, but not directly where I can
just say.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Over, you've got to get some credits like that bro
you got, because then that'll make you seem like that's
almost like going back to get your masters. You know,
it's like it's like, man, look, I ain't, I ain't,
I ain't. Just did this right here, man, You know,
you can go back and say I'm classically trained. That's
almost like being classically trained to have work with those
type of people all struck. Yeah, you know, I got
(29:51):
Ron Eyesley under my belt. You know, I got I
got uh, I got uh George Clinton. You know what
I'm saying, I ain't bragging or nothing. I'm just saying
I'm just doing that, you know, you know, just make
it add up.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Yeah, well it's there, it's there.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you should work with them. I mean,
you know, like and George is close by, you know,
I'm sure George like Adams.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
A Cloud, you know. Yeah, I mean we did her
last album. You worked with we did her last album.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Because yeah, so what happened with that is my god,
Marcus uh, Marcus Egby, he called me to do a
song or so said hey, Lona's working this that the other,
and we basically said, hey, let's let's lock it in.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
So we flooded up with songs and tracks.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
So are my camp me and my homies or producing
homies and click everything you want to call us? Right,
end up doing eighty percent of it. So the last
album that she put out called Becoming It, which was
her first independent album that she did, we did that.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah, but you learned is still more contemporary, you know,
all right? You know I was talking about those I'm
talking about that music that raised our parents. Now yeah
you know that type of means those people, Yeah, they
was so special, bro, Listen, I listened to some of
that stuff. Today man, And I'm like, man, I just
I just being odd, like damn, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Well it's it's like this, I was working so much,
like I forget some of the stuff that I was doing,
you know, so I have to like you hit me
with that one like coming out of left and I'm like, oh,
I gotta kind of go on the bag and say
is there Oh yeah, this happened then, But did it
happen back then?
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I meaning like any anywhere between then and now, there's
been some type of hey, I'm gonna send this to
this person, They're gonna record this song, et cetera, et cetera.
But you know, I got more songs just sitting in
the catalog waiting to come out than it is out.
I can tell you that right now, you know. And
I'm talking about with Who's who with my I gotta
like if I can get releases on these things, man,
(31:44):
it's popping.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
So you're sitting around and waiting on release it. That's
why you ain't put that Get zero man. Zero would
have put that out. Zero would have been like many
zero would have hit that button bam, like y'all come
get it.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Like yeah, he had lost touch for a long time.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
It wasn't until I was actually uh going into a bank,
keeps coming out of back and I said we saw
each other, like we sat outside talking for like two hours.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I was caught up. But that was
a that was a good moment too.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
But yeah, I was just thinking Zero had Yeah, it'll
be a whole other thing.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Zero, Man, if you wanted the song, you wanted to
be on the album, Man, you should have seen something. Man,
I I just I just cut it out. If you
ain't want me to, who is it? Hey, look, hey,
talk to my life, talk to Big, talk to Big.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I'm gonna have to get with him because we go.
It's a nice thing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You didn't want me to put it out. You shouldn't
have recorded it. Ship. We were supposed to wait fail
and Zero go get that money, man.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
You gonna do it.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
Get We got to make sure because somebody stuff on
two inch and and is that old?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
And it's been sitting in the garage. Yeah, I got it,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I hope it's a Oh so do you know what
to send it to?
Speaker 3 (33:09):
Have to do something like that?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, so I know where to send it. I just
got a bunch of stuff. Yeah, converted. Okay, yeah, a
few months ago. Stuff that I had been having sitting
for like a couple of decades.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Yeah, yeah, Well I just I just got those photos
because somebody gave me.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
The photographer gave me those photos.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
You only seen one of them, but he gave me
the photos probably two three years ago, and I just said,
let me look at the resources because every time I
was calling, nobody was taking thirty five millimeters anymore slides.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And they wanted me to send it off for a month.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
But I found an app that allowed me to just
I just put it on the lighted plate, like you know,
I took a ring light through it on there and
you take a photo of it, and there it is.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Let me let me look at it again.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
Yeah, if you slide through, you'll see some of the
other ones.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
So he just the photographer brought him over.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
I can't give it to you, but you can know
he gave me the thirty fives.
Speaker 4 (34:11):
But I couldn't get him developed fast enough in the
times that I wanted.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
To get it. You see that we road. He ain't
seen him yet. That's why I want to get I
want to get his.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Week, like, yo, let's make something happen.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Yeah, that's why I said, like he deserved to see
that first.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's part of his come
up right there.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Oh man, this is dope.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
You see how we're looking.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, this is dope.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Bro.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Thanks shout out to uh the photographer Marby Bowden who
took that and gave it to me.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
That's good photographer, reach out to you just caught up.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
With him now, he reached out today.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
I got you had no idea.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Yeah, no, I know he had them, but I just forgot. Yeah,
it's just kind of forgotten. And that was a good thing.
He reached out. Like the whole package of it was
that plus some other stuff. And there you know when
I because at that time I used to go by
DJ deaf Right, and it was I just literally looked
at the phone one day and saw the number three
(35:16):
and said d E F And that's that's.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
My name, DJ F. So that's how I came up
with that name.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
And then after that I started going by Player, and
when I started, of course more rapping and solo, it
was Player and then the group came out Player. So
that's when this female named me poppy, and then I
had a bunch of guys saying, I ain't gonna call
you poppy.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
So I just said e poppy or arrow poppy so
that it was more acceptable. Then that's kind of evolution.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
You know that that was That was brilliant because I
wouldn't have called you poppy either, but I called you
that's right.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
It was a smooth, you know, little move, but yeah,
but yeah, but this, I know we missed a few things,
but yeah, like you had asked earlier, like even with
the Missy thing, that that.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Whole relationship came about by being prepared.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
You know.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
I was in New York.
Speaker 4 (36:07):
I was working with I'm signed a seasack so my
that's my performance organization pro and we were at HIT Factory.
They have I don't know if it's still the same,
but at that time they were like on the fifth,
sixth floor where the HIT Factory was in New York
and or still is. I hadn't been there so long,
so longest shortest I heard that Missy was in the
(36:30):
building and I was working with a writer. I hurried
up and I already had CDs made and we went
and started asking questions. A bodyguard came out, shot out
Big Rob and the rest is history, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
So Putler older let me just kind of go into it.
I gave him the CD.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
The Texas thing worked for me. When he realized I'm
from Texas. He locked in because he was from Texas,
so you know, he made sure that all the numbers,
everything was there. I went back to Queens. I was
staying with my grandmother. By the time I got to Queens,
my grandfather said, hey, somebody named.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Rob kept calling. It was already late. It was late late,
that kind of out, you know.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Because you have to take like the E train all
this other crap to get the Queens and then you
know all and so it was probably like twelve midnight.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
So I called Rob back.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
He said, Man, Missy wants you come back up here,
so it's try to take a taxi. You know, she
want to meet you to take a taxi. I ain't
get back home till like seven the next morning, cause
that's how she worked. And we just locked in right away.
Day one locked in.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
What's that work ethic like like being in that studio
with her?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Well, number one, she'll kick you out when she's doing
her thing.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
You ain't finna be in there. It's her and the engineer,
but you know, and the engineer. Yeah, sometimes just her.
She'll run a border.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
She has no producers, that's it. Nobody.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No, she will kick you out. She don't want your opinion.
Another day. We used the bump pears all the time.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
You know, it's like like, just y'all, you don't like
that or whatever whatever, you know that type of bump
he is, But.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
No, you ain't gonna be so.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Once she locked increatively, that's it. Everybody got to.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Get Everybody got to get out. Everybody gets out. Yeah,
it's everybody off the thing. You're sitting out there, all
you hear that's it, through the through the walls. You
ain't hearing her. Yeah, you're gonna hear that music. If
she turned it up, that's it. And should we should
bite you back in when she done.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
So, when y'all bumped hiss, what'd y'all bump he is over?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Oh? Bump here would be the wrong thing.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
But I know, like on Pussycat as an example, when
the rap came on, I was like, but.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
It worked out fine. So at that time, you know,
she just was way ahead. You feel me. So I
was looking at her like huh.
Speaker 4 (38:37):
And then she was like, you know, we was We
had like at that time, I would say, a brother
sister type of vib So she would just talk about me,
talk about me, talk about me, and I come back
at her as best as I can without insulting without
getting kicked out, right.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
So so so.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
We're just back and forth like that and eventually, yeah,
it is what it is, her decision, so I'm just there.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
But she taught me a lot.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
It's kind of sounds some of the stuff you know,
that I got from her is like just not working
on with everybody. So that's why, like a lot of
times until to this day, I kind of like turned
down a lot of projects.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It was just not you know, horn your name out
basically things like that.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Because I would call her at that time when we
were you know, with each other often and say, hey,
I just left this label and they want this, and
then she's like no, no offense, no meaning no offense
to them, And then she broke down why and some
of these people got names, you know, but she just
was like that we ain't doing that.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I'm here to learn. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, you also work with Dallas Austin, Right, yeah, and
who what what producer have you worked with that did
you believe that had the most impact on your career.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
Impact? You know what, who's a unknown known Rick Knowles?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Rick Knowles, Yeah, he's a he's he's more of a
in the UK market, but he's like La Santa Monica.
We did, we did some stuff. We did a record
call back to the music for a vv Brown. She
was a Vanessa Brown. She was she had a conflict
in her whole thing. She was signed to Polydor or
something like that in the UK and she had like
(40:21):
three labels like in a scope, you know, in whatever,
so that became a conflict. But we did what was
supposed to be her single at that time and it
was a nice experience with him.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
I would just off top, but I think everybody that
I've worked with, Rodney Jerkins man, I mean yeah, I
would say Rodney, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a beast.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
Rodney Rodney Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
Just his musical like ability that was, you know how
he could just go in play everything.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
What's his energy like when he's making the beast because
some some he acquired and it just just like a
mad scientist, just moving stuff and then some of them
black n end up moving around and stay back.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
He's laid back, but just control the heat. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah, is that how Dallas Austin is too, because he
has that laid back the meaning.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
We were working on Black when I was out there
with him, and then he had JT money at that time.
We're working on that as well.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Just I was just.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
Getting in what I fit in, So you know, wherever
I get in, I'm doing songs, doing records whatever. But yeah,
that was that was That's what I you know, to
come up was like that, and I think you still
should do that now as if you're trying to come
up as a producer, you need to get in where
you're gonna fit in. Try not to commit. You know,
people make you, try to lock you in, but just
try not to commit and just keep moving.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Go to boys. Reloaded podcasts will be right back after spot.
Let's talk about some of your business endeavors. Man, Like
you are a serious business man. I mean you you
got your hands and a lot of a lot of stuff. Yeah,
(42:03):
what what are you doing right now that you can
brag about?
Speaker 4 (42:08):
I'm helping artists actually, as well as other companies and
my girls run like e comm businesses. So I'm showing
them how to make money, still be at home, you know,
and not be stressed, so to say. So we've been
I've been teaching them skills from you know, just online marketing,
you know, everything that's going to take to market that
(42:29):
finding products, you know, and then exploiting those products on
the different various platforms and then getting a bunch of sales.
Can you be amazed how you know one hundred thousand
could just rack up just from twenty dollars sales or
two hundred dollars sales. It just is what it is.
So right now, that's that. But you know, if you
know me, I've been in you know, real estate things
(42:49):
like that, and all of that has its ebbs and flow.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
You know, it's it's, uh, look at what's happening right now.
I went through that.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, yeah, let's say five hundred dollars. I want to
get into the e commerce business. What's a good lane
for me? Like, you know, is it is it selling clothes?
Is it selling products? On Amazon?
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Well here's the issue with Amazon's let's start there, little
start and stop. We actually started on Amazon. One of
the issues that people don't widely discuss is that with Amazon,
you're not going to keep or customer retention, so the
customer's information, they keep that, so you don't receive any
of that. So you may find, you know, a water
bottle and it may sell a lot. They're gonna hit
(43:38):
you with the fees and everything else, and then once
that product is selling, they gonna compete with you. They're
gonna sell about themselves.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Yeah, so you and that playground. So that's the issue
with it. So, yeah, you could make a little money there.
You probably make a lot of money, but it's not
it's not long. You're not building a brand or something
that you could turn around and sells. So with the
five hundred, we would it's not really what your passion
or anything is because what you're passionate about may not sell, right,
So we're going to find, uh, you know, if you
(44:06):
just want to do a winning product, you know, I
would show you ways to find that winning product.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
There's apps and everything for that.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Now we start you on some e commerce site, you know,
Shopify or whatever, or we can build your own site,
you know, on your own HTML.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
You know, what's the most economical way to do it
up up front, because you can always.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Shop yeah, shopify and drop shipping or something like that,
and then find a winning product and then you can
just start.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
If you want to brand it with your own you
can do that as well.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Why not just go to let's say Costco or Sam's
Club and buy buy the products that's selling the most
and then ship them to an Amazon warehouse and then
get paid like that.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
Because the same same out the aforementioned it's the same circle.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
So by the time, so when you go into Amazon,
you have to do Amazon uh fulfillment by Amazon, So
you have to pay for the cube square foot on
that that what you're using for the warehouse space.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Right, Oh, they make the merchants pay for the space
that the products take up. Why not, absolutely, So.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
You're paying for the space.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
So you just can't have two thousand books just sitting
on and they're not selling or whatever you.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
Pay unless they change your pass.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
You're paying for that real estate and you're paying them
for to sell and ship. Yeah for a year.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
Yeah, all that's you're going to put in your price though,
so you'll make it back through your you know, you
make it.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
Back, so it's not it's not an evil process. It's
just that you're not going to retain that customer.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
And that's what's important because like a lot of times,
what I'm showing people that I'm working with, who I'm
helping build their brand is that email list.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
The open rate is still there.
Speaker 4 (45:50):
It's still especially for musicians, Like when it comes to
like some of the musicians I'm working with, the open
rate is.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Like twenty three that's pretty good on the emails.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
So now what do you mean by open rate that.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
People are open and checking the email and reading through it.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Okay, yeah, oh yes, there's like a maybe twenty six
percent open rate. So you know, every hundred that we
send out, twenty six of them open, some people are clicking,
there's a great percentage of them.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah, and how many of them are actually buying out
of that twenty six percent.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
It's a good I'd take three to seven percent from there,
which is a good return because we just keep sending
because you you know the ones who didn't.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
There's there's funnels that we put in place.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
So and if you ever noticed how you would probably
on a website and then you get an email or
something saying, hey, you know, we'll take five percent off
of this because you know who want you to come
back blah blah blah.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
So we have those funnels in place to bring these
people back.
Speaker 4 (46:44):
But that's what I'm saying, Like, when we capture this
information from the sms, meaning their their phone numbers all
the way to the email addresses, we're able to retarget them.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
I can create lookalike audiences for them. So what is that?
What does that mean? Everything?
Speaker 4 (47:03):
Or your characteristics when it comes to you online, even
your demographics of you know who you are, all that
it's online trusting belief. So if I'm looking for someone
like yourself, these systems, their algorithms have an ability to
go produce a million or five million of you who's
likely to buy, and you know, the law of averages
(47:26):
is going to just exist with that.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
So I just found it being real easy, you know,
to go into e comm We are my girls, my
wife and myself. We went in about twenty eighteen and
we've grown run a few brands or we're starting you know.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Nice. Yeah nice. That's good money, man. That internet money
is some good money.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Man, it is.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Yeah. Both you and I have had moments in MLM
in the past. Are you still doing mL.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
And so so here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
As you may know, I think I got you into one.
I'm still doing it, but not meaning that there's requirements
to keep in uh in your your your income.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But one of the companies that still in one of
them from the past. Yeah, you're still getting residuals from that,
That's what I'm talking about. So you still have to
hustle it.
Speaker 4 (48:19):
Well, I have to keep a customer in every ninety days,
so making sure I meet that minimum requirement.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, so what kind of residual that is that?
Speaker 3 (48:28):
Looking like I'm a six figure earner in there.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
So yeah, so still six figures a year.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
It's it's reduced significantly.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
We need to look into why, but it's it's uh,
it's significant people.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I think so, and then you're not working it. Yeah,
exactly so front either, so numbers probably getting smaller.
Speaker 4 (48:49):
Yeah, but you got to realize that company, that that
business I worked for six months, I worked for six months,
only worked six months and as you see, I mean, hey,
screw a nice team, damn.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
And that was what like eight yeah, two thousand and
eight nine, so aroun there Yeah, yeah, it's still today checks.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yeah, that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
So I know some people are against m Alumi, but
this obviously, this particular one we're talking about, which we're
not mentioning it was. It wasn't a product, you know,
it was a product on like any other let's just say,
like that for a service, you know. So therefore it
made all the sense to do it. I think that's
even why you saw it. It was like this makes sense. Yeah,
(49:30):
it's a must have.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, we go yeah, yeah, man, I take a chance
on business, like I don't gamble. I don't do the
regular gambling like I'm not I'm not going to Vegas
to play. I'm not shooting no craps, I'm not playing
black jack, and I've done that in the past, but
I'm not doing none of that. I haven't did that
(49:53):
chance gambling like that in over twenty years. But I
will gamble on business. And I think that one of
the huge misconceptions in business is people think that it's
supposed to be easy. They think it and they think
it's not supposed to be a risk.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Well, not only that at the time.
Speaker 4 (50:14):
If I didn't have an understanding or just you know, family,
because it would just be a problem. I can tell
you that because I put a lot of hours into this,
Like even right now with one of our businesses, it
started as you know, me the girl's wife, and it
now seemed like it's just me and then my wife
kind of like I'm gonna help you, right, But it's
(50:36):
grown so much and the income has gotten like every
time I set a goal, say you know what, you know,
maybe we can get here, we get it.
Speaker 3 (50:44):
So it's to the point where I had.
Speaker 4 (50:45):
To cut stop my ads because we would implode. Damn yeah,
because we can't handle the the you know.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
What I mean.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
So we had to really cap it, you know, you know,
say you know what I mean. I want to put
a number on it, but you.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Know, we had to cap it where we ca right
now because we don't.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
Have so why not skill? Why what ask people there?
Speaker 3 (51:03):
You go?
Speaker 4 (51:04):
So right now I'm looking into doing some vas and
so forth and on. But some of the products that
we're selling take it's not just buy this bottle and go.
I need to take some information from you, you know
what I'm saying. So let's say if it's a specialty item,
or let's just throw out some random let's say it's
a shirt in your name, is supposed to be on it, right,
So I need to get your name, I need to
get this, you know, the different measurements from you for
(51:26):
some of these items. So every if it's one hundred
sells today, that's one hundred phone calls. And you know,
everybody answering their phone, so that's another issue. So you know,
just get in touch with people, texting them, calling them,
all that good stuff, just to make sure you know so.
But I find myself doing a lot of that. So
now yes, answering that, why not? You know, we're at
(51:47):
that point now. I just had to see some consistency
because when you step into this game as an entrepreneur
of e commerce, the easiest thing is to try to
run everything yourself or learn as much. So that's when
I talked about like teaching them things about marketing. They
don't necessarily want to do some of this, but I'm
saying these are skills that if this company, we decided
to stop that company or that company, you now had
(52:09):
that skill that you can go do it for will
It Y or whoever else, whether he was marketing his
music or whatever. Marketing is marketing. It's just you know
how and where, So learning how to market in these places.
But bringing this back up overall, it takes a lot
of time. And when you're sitting online and somebody telling
(52:29):
you how easy E comm is, they line, they tail on.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
It's a lot of time.
Speaker 2 (52:35):
They're trying to get that.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Yeah, they're trying to get that bag out of you,
which some of them are deserving. They give you some
good information, but some is just regurgitate. They just learned
it while watching the last video repackage it. You know,
probably bought some PLR you understand what that is?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
I think, hold on, let me think, if I let
me see if I can get this p L R
p L Are.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
You the first one say private? Yeah, so L is
listing label.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Oh damn, now I got and I got the R
left I got, I got private label. Who you almost
had private label? It's not retail private label, not registered
(53:25):
private label.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
You right there, you're about to sput it out.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
All right?
Speaker 3 (53:31):
What rights?
Speaker 2 (53:32):
Right? Okay?
Speaker 4 (53:33):
So you could have created an entire package and you're
giving me the ability to white label it or whatever,
you know, just put my name on it and sell it.
Speaker 3 (53:41):
His mind.
Speaker 4 (53:42):
So a lot of that I'm seeing, even to the
point where I bought to the same thing from two
different people, like and I had to give him money
back on it, you know, and is what it is
because when you're saying I bought, yeah, we had to
step in here and start educating myself. Will be be
educated through you know, those masters around and so far.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
And some people want them back for their services. We
ain't talking about nothing cheap.
Speaker 4 (54:03):
Like the first one I almost got in they wanted
like thirty four thousand dollars to learn Amazon.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
I was about to give it to him. I was
like right there because they had some guarantees.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
Because you're gonna make millions. Thirty four thousand ain't nothing
if you you know, if you got it, if you
got that kind of money, and they tell you're gonna.
Speaker 4 (54:22):
Make money, yeah, they'll financially give me.
Speaker 2 (54:27):
They'll financial for what they say, give me two thousand
a month.
Speaker 3 (54:30):
Uh no, not by yourself.
Speaker 4 (54:32):
They're gonna put you with a bank or get you
some credit cards and pull it off of there. They
got all kinds of ways, man. What Yeah, they ain't playing. Yeah, yeah,
they're gonna show you how to get some line of credit.
They're gonna pull it right off of their financing like that.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah. Yeah, but oh that's how yeah yeah, because now
in your mind you're thinking like, well I can get
that up because I'm gonna be making so much money.
Speaker 3 (54:51):
That's gonna cut. That's the trick for it.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
It's gonna cut.
Speaker 3 (54:54):
By yourself in debt. Man. Yeah what I'm saying, Yeah,
like no joke. Yeah yeah. So it's like that, but.
Speaker 4 (55:01):
It's that world is so good because there's no limits
on you know, what you can sell and where you
can be. You know, my first my first experience in
there was actually before that on eBay and I found
myself somehow selling women's adult toys. But I wasn't individually
(55:22):
selling them. I found a supplier through like Ali bah Bah,
and I was bolk selling these things, you know, just
the whole box.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
It's called a lot.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
They used to call it business business. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Well whoever was bonding they were buying it. Yeah, I
was just on ebase. I don't know my but what
happened is the supplier.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
They realized he's ordering quite a bit and fast, and
they realized, oh no, they ain't do that.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
They did it worse. They put the product on eBay.
Speaker 4 (55:52):
Themselves and undercut me when they found Yeah, so I
had to stop it because I couldn't compete with whoever
was buying this stuff from me.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Now that can get it in my price or lower. Yeah,
and that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (56:06):
So that was in twenty fifteen, twenty fourteen, fifteen, Yeah,
and then by the circle back in eighteen. That's when
I was like, yo, let's let's do this Amazon thing.
And then we just started finding Shopify doing our own stores,
and then we started doing print on demand, which is
basically like.
Speaker 3 (56:24):
I mean, I can do anything on print on the
mand just like like this.
Speaker 4 (56:28):
This was print on the man. It's a whole other backband,
you know what I'm saying. This is one of the
brands that I got for this rapper out of Jamaica,
and he's been internationally selling that and doing doing a
great job with it too. So we're building up his
brand and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Hold it up again, yeah, hold it up to catch
it on the camera. Polishing polished. Yeah, that's nice man.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Thanks. So yeah, this guy he was you know, I'll
share with you some of that apparel as well. But
you know, it's all about expansion and not doing too much,
you know, like one of the brands we did. We
just started.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
We launched an online magazine and also a physical hard copy.
So it's a good way for in this game you
want to have what's the options? Were not the options,
it's called when when people are what's the word for this?
Social proof? So another form of social proof. We decided
(57:24):
to with that brand, start magazines and put these magazines
like what so in places that like high sit areas
like doctor's office, uh, you.
Speaker 3 (57:33):
Know, on and on and on.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
So we put these magazines in there people could thumb through.
But what they're they're not only looking at great fashion
and things that they can buy, got QR codes right there,
but they're also seeing customer reviews, real customers, their reviews,
their experiences. And with that company, we interview the customers,
so even when you get to see it online, you're
(57:54):
watching the customers experience. So it's just a different form
of uh you know, of that social proof that's necessary
to help you sell a product. But we put it
in the form of like you know, magazine and things
like that, so just you know, coming with a unique twist.
Speaker 3 (58:09):
It either works or it doesn't. We got to try,
you know, I mean, or do it.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
But yeah, that's but back on the time, It's a
lot of time into this I put, man, I feel
like twenty hour days sometimes, like no joke into this,
you know.
Speaker 3 (58:21):
So it is what it is, you know, on to
the next at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, how long have you and your wife been Marria.
Speaker 4 (58:29):
Ooh married it since two thousand and five, so yes,
eight eighteen years.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Eighteen years. Yeah, that's a nice run, man. Yeah. I've
been around your family, you know, you seem to have
a very you know, nice cohesive, loving family. What do
you think about all of this back and forth bantering
bickering going on between black men and black women online.
Speaker 3 (58:55):
There's gonna be the issue.
Speaker 4 (58:57):
They can say what they want to say, but the
reality is they're not moving it, you know, and they
could try it and they're gonna just regret it at
the end of the day. As a species, I think
we need to you know, co mingle and co create
and all that good stuff. But I get it because
I do have you know, maybe I'm gonna say two
thirds now, probably about a half a half of my
friends are single, whether it be female or male, and
(59:18):
they either tried things before and it didn't work. But
it just comes down to like learning how to like
be with people, you know, learn how to you know,
just agree, learn when to shut the fuck up, all
things like that, you know, so, or let somebody play
their position. If you didn't notice, even when I said
when I was in the studio, if I'm with some
if I'm with someone like this.
Speaker 3 (59:36):
I'm gonna shut up, I'm gonna listen. I'm a play.
So it's the same thing, you know.
Speaker 4 (59:40):
You know, so if you're gonna get this man, let's
say from the woman point, if you're gonna give him
that floor, give him the floor.
Speaker 3 (59:45):
Let him even if.
Speaker 4 (59:46):
You know you could run circles all around this dude.
Just let him feel like he you know what I'm saying.
Maybe that because when he feel respected that he should
be showing it back, you know.
Speaker 3 (59:56):
So, how do I feel about all this?
Speaker 4 (59:58):
I think the problem is issue within a black community,
is it's going to result in less everything, less wealth building,
less kids, but more drama.
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, man, you hit the nail on
the head. I do not understand it whatsoever. And the
trip part about it is a lot of it is
coming from people who purport to be educated. They act
like they're smarter than everybody else. A lot of these
people have platforms, and people are going there listening to
(01:00:32):
these people, and they're putting people who shit couldn't even
read read out loud in class on that platform to
give advice about people's lives.
Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
That's true.
Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
Let me add to that. I'm not going to call
anybody out, but some of these people are very impressionable
and influential in their wording and how they can give you.
I'm almost say, a cinematic view of you know, just
through their expressions of how life is, and they probably
haven't even lived, you know some of it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Some of these people are young. But what I'm saying
is if I were young and listening to that, I
wouldn't have been married.
Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Yeah, I just it just wouldn't because I would have
That's how impressionable.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Some of this is that you just scared to move,
but you know, you just got to find the right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
One, you gotta.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Everybody want to be held against and everything, and they
scared of love. Explain that to me, I can't. Yeah,
I know some of the people the hardest dudes, but
then they're scared to get their heart broke, so they
choose to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
You know, well, I think everybody's scared. I know what
you're saying. You can take your money, you can praise
it your money. I think everybody's everybody's afraid to get
their heartbroken. But you know, if it's like lot or
you gotta be in it to win it. If you
want love, if you want if you want love, if
you want a good healthy relationship, you got to be
in one. You got to be in a relationship first
(01:02:02):
of all to give it a chance, to give that
a chance.
Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
Okay, you've played sports and you practice, right, So was
the last chick practice or was it?
Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
You know?
Speaker 4 (01:02:11):
You know, meaning like, hey man, you got y'all gonna
have to just get in here and exercise and learn
how to like do life. Because I'm the same guy
who I got some of the same friends from pre
K so something about me is working or just maybe
I'm a workable guy. Right, So then I got people
that I just don't agree with. But I'm not hard
to get along with. And you understand this. So obviously
(01:02:33):
in some cases it's not me, but maybe it is.
But my point is, we just got to learn to
like be with each other. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
I think the fundamental, the fundamental aspect of this is
just simple respect, because everything starts with respect. And I
see even the way how they talk to each other
online some some of the things that they say, like,
you know, the biggest problem with the black community is
(01:03:04):
the black woman. Right there, you already lost, You already
you're lost. And I ain't talking about lost the argument
you're lost. The biggest problem in the black community is
the black man. You're lost. And these are people, a
lot of them, you know, they're hurt. They're really just hurt,
and they don't know. They haven't been taught how to communicate.
(01:03:24):
They haven't been taught conflict resolution, and they're too proud
to listen. They're too proud to want to learn. But
at the same time, many of these people they're raising girls,
but they hate women. They have daughters, but they hate women.
They have sons, but they hate men. How you gonna
(01:03:46):
hate that which your son is to become? How are
you gonna hate that which your daughter is to become?
These people are delusional. There is something wrong with them.
It's a mental illness. It really is a mental illness.
Because we can't we have survived and won a lot
(01:04:06):
of wars, agenda war. We cannot we cannot win agenda war.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
So again, do you think that this is on a
conspired level of speaking? Is just planned?
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
It was, It has been planned, it planned, and it's
still being planned. But the problem is a lot of times, man,
when you're when you're fed something constantly, it's propaganda. When
you're fed propaganda. And on top of that, it's not
just words. These people actually implemented certain things to make
(01:04:40):
sure that they are able to divide us. You know, uh,
you know welfare, you know, uh, crack cocaine, school prison pipeline.
I mean the school, the school to prison pipeline.
Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
You know, believe it or not. I got friends who
will argue on that.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Red line, everything you can think of. They intentionally these
things to divide us. But here's the thing. After a while,
sometimes you can become so traumatized by something that you
actually start to believe whatever that propaganda is. You actually
(01:05:16):
start to believe it yourself. Somebody tell you ain't shit
long enough, you start thinking you ain't shit, you know,
And so is a man thinking you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Yeah, well, there's no argument with what you're saying. Is
just that as we identify the problem, what do we have,
what can we provide as a solution?
Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
We start with self. See, everybody got to start with self.
See a lot of us were sitting back waiting waiting
on the woman to do it, or we're sitting on
waiting waiting on this person to do it to that person.
Doing two things can happen at the same time. We
can't walk into bubble gum at the same time. The
very first thing you need to do is work on
yourself first and foremost. Most people who are in relationships,
(01:06:00):
in my opinion, are not qualified to be in a
relationship because they don't have the tools. They don't have
the resources to deal with rejection and conflict resolution. They
should not be in relationships. You should get yourself together first.
If you have a hot temper, you don't, you shouldn't
be in a relationship. If you're if you're incapable of compromise,
(01:06:21):
it's my way of the highway, you shouldn't be in
a relationship.
Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
But the same person probably is difficult even in a
business relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
It's true.
Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
So when it goes into it, it goes back to
what you said, self reflection and making those adjustments because
if somebody's hot at home, in the boardroom or just
in the locker room, they the same.
Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
But watch this. Some people are so caught up and
getting to the bad that they have a money over
everything mentality. So when it comes to their jobs. So
when it comes to their jobs, they know how to
acquiesque to their boss's demands. They know how to do
(01:07:06):
what they told they're told on the job because it's
a bag attached. They know this is how I get
my money. This is my bag. I'm talking about men
and wealth. They know how to they know how to
acquiesque when it comes to getting that bag when they
when they're on the job. But when they go home
and they're they're they're significant other, this person that they're
(01:07:27):
supposed to be building a life with a generational wealth
with and raising human beings with. Ask something of them
is a problem.
Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
Now, is that because the job has a consequence, it's
gonna affect their livelihood as far as financially versus you know.
Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
The job.
Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
The job has consequences that will affect their life financially.
But the relationship, an intimate relationship, uh a committed relationship
has implications that could affect your life, not just your bag,
(01:08:08):
but your life, your quality of life. Do you know
that there have been people who have worried themselves to
death in relationships. People have lost their minds, and and
and and and committed suicide. Most people who have committed suicide.
If you compare work to to intimate relationships, it's no,
(01:08:34):
it's not even a comparison. People can get over losing jobs,
but it's very hard for them to get over losing
another human being, their significant other. You know. So we
put we put too much emphasis on getting to the
bag because a lot of us we have we we
(01:08:54):
got the money, but we but we're lonely. We're in
these big houses, win these big cars. We got the bag,
but we're lonely, and we try to mask it with
buying stuff. We try to buy stuff to help us
get through it. And the people on the our side
(01:09:18):
see that, and they see how we're living. They just
see the bag. They don't see what we see behind
closed doors. They just see the bag. So they get
caught up in the bag. And even if you tell
them money ain't everything, you know, what they're saying, well,
just give me your money. Let's see if money is everything.
The only time people say that is when they got money. Duh.
Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
I mean that's telling you like, you know, but overall, Yeah,
don't just disagree with what you're saying. It's just that
I'm the type I'm looking for. How are we far gone?
That's what I want to know, Like, are we just
far gone? Or do we have to start teaching these kids,
you know, through meat, through our own media, you know,
(01:10:03):
producing our own whatever we gotta do to start impressing
that mind, because I think some of us are far gone.
Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
We're just stuck in away.
Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
I'm not going to put an age on you know,
Kevin Samuels type talk or nothing like that. I just
think some are far gone and then some just hadn't experienced,
you know, a life with a good person. And it's
gonna come down to probably attracting that. I know they
getting to some mo who But I mean, just if
you're putting out this frequency, then you're just gonna get
back what you're putting out, you know, so that.
Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Some of the people are not good people themselves, so
that you attract what you are.
Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
That's basically what it comes down to.
Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Yeah, yeah, but you've done pretty good, attracting some good
people in your life. Man, And so that's why you're
in the position you are, and that's why you continue
to put that big pearly white on us like you do, man, white,
just like it's smarting because you know, life is good.
Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
And know, I mean it's not, it's you know what
it's on the mind because I find myself complain and
at times and I have to check myself and say,
what are you doing is because sometimes I see myself
going here and I'm gonna say here, and it's taking longer.
But that's just you know, enjoyed and I forget to
enjoy the journey. But you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
I've done that, man, I've done that. I don't do
it anymore.
Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
I was doing it the other day. I have to
check myself.
Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
The other day. I remember, you know, back in the nineties,
I'm sitting at the house and I'm going through a
little minor, minor depression because I'm thinking, like, things ain't
happening fast. I'm doing good, but it ain't happening fast enough.
Well I want to go. You know, it ain't happening
(01:11:42):
fast enough. So I'm you know, I'm upset. I look
at the windows. I look at these Florida ceiling windows
in my house, and I see people walking on the
golf course, and I see these big, old, two hundred
year old oak trees. And I look out and I
(01:12:03):
see my custom pool and waterfall. It's just water is cascading,
and and I look within myself and I say, you're tripping, bro,
you're tripping. You know. I'm not where I want to be,
but thank god, ain't where I used to be.
Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Thank you for coming on the show man, thank you,
any last words, any last words?
Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Hey, just thank you for having me. And uh, you know,
we'll do this again. We'll just do it.
Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
We should with some intense focus on a certain topic
and subject to bring to the people that we can
just make sure we find a way to impact the
mental you know, change the way they think.
Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
Well, what you sound like, Stevie wonder boy right there?
Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
All right?
Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Thank you, Thank you ladies and gentlemen. The Man, the Myth,
the listen, eat Poppy all right.
Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
This episode was produced by a King and brought to
you by the Black Effect Podcast Network at iHeartRadio.
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