January 26, 2024 • 27 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. This is Rachel Levis, your
host of Rachel Goes Rogue. I'm here with my iHeart
producers and they'll be helping me go through different questions
things that you guys want answered. We took to Instagram
and prompted you guys to ask me a few questions,
(00:27):
wanting to know what you wanted, clear it up, the
things that have been on your mind. And I'm ready
to answer everything. So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So you didn't even end up with Tom, and looking back,
do you think all the drama was worth it? And
do you regret your time spent with him?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't think all the drama was worth it. No,
I have a lot of regrets with that. I you know,
part of me wishes that well. I don't know. It's
complicated too, but I know the comments out there saying, oh,
you blew up your life, you blew up everyone else's
life for nothing. You're not even with Tom and almost
(01:12):
like an entitlement piece of like we at least as viewers,
deserve to see you guys at least take a shot
at a relationship since you eft it all up for
everyone and to that I say, I don't need to
do that if I know that this relationship is not
good for me and it got me at my lowest
(01:35):
of lows. So in trying to improve on myself and
be a better person and grow and learn from my mistakes,
getting back with Tom would be a step backwards. As
a cast member who has been influenced by fans in
the past and wanting to explore certain things, I can
see like that part of me that wants to fulfill
(01:59):
that request, but in reality it's just not a good idea.
And I hope that you respect my decision to not
have Tom in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And now that you're not with him, how do you
feel about his treatment towards Ariana and how he blames
her for cheating.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't approve of that at all. I think that
Tom uses Ariana's mental health against her and it's very
manipulative and messed up. I think he could have gone
about it in a much more mature way, but who
knows if he's even capable of that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And you've said your relationship with Ariana was for the
show and not deep or genuine, but she disagrees. So
why do you think you're not on the same page.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
This is an interesting one. Okay, hold on, we need
to backtrack a minute because there's a backstory to how
all of this played out. Back when I was with
James and the pandemic hit, we were cooped up together,
too scared to like go out at all, And I
(03:08):
found out later Tom told me that he had a
lot of friends over during the pandemic and I was like, dang,
Like that would have been nice to be invited to
because my COVID experience was hell. And so I feel
like a lot of people didn't invite us to places
(03:30):
because they didn't enjoy being around James. And before that, like,
I wasn't that close with the cast, Like the closest
person that I was in relation to was Sena, and
during the pandemic, Sheena had some specifications on who I
couldn't and could be friends with in order for her
(03:53):
to allow me into her house. All of this to say,
when we filmed season nine, which was our lowest point season,
it was right at the end of the COVID lockdown.
We were really restricted on filming. Different places weren't allowing filming.
(04:17):
A lot of places were still closed. We had regulations
on what kind of food we could eat and where
it came from. We had COVID tests every single day
that we were filming or the day prior, and we
still did throughout season ten as well. But that was
when I started getting closer with Arianna and the rest
(04:41):
of the cast, because we kind of were in this
world together, like this unique experience we got to film
during this lockdown. And it was still not close close friendship,
but we definitely had warmed up together. When James and
(05:04):
I broke up, I had a conversation with Sheena, Arianna,
Jenny Ting, and my friend Paige, and I explained to
them why James and I broke up, like the real
reason why we broke up. And during that time, Sena
and I got pretty close. I wasn't hanging out with Ariana,
(05:25):
but as we were filming, you know, we had a
few call times together bathing, suit shopping and her getting
ready at my apartment before one of the nights out.
And so I can see how it looks like we
had a much much closer friendship than we did, but
(05:45):
in reality, I was much closer to Sheena at that time. Arianna,
like she's never been somebody who spoke down to me,
and so I think that's fortunate that I played into that.
I am very remorseful about that, and I'm making these
(06:07):
decisions in my life now going forward to never betray
a friend like that again. Every single person deserves that
same level of basic respect.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You said you were a lot closer to Shina. Do
you feel any guilt for how hurt Sheina was from
all of this?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Here's the thing. I did feel guilt when she Sina
was talking about how the temporary restraining order affected her
in that moment. And I've worked through this with therapy
and a professional and yes, okay, it's okay to feel
(06:49):
guilt in that situation. But Sheina assaulted me, and there
are consequences to your actions, if anyone knows that. I know,
and I feel like it's very hypocritical of her to
say that I need to take accountability for my actions
when I believe I've been taking accountability this whole time.
(07:12):
Yet she still won't admit to what actually happened that night,
and in a way like I don't expect her to,
I know she has reasons for not admitting it. I
know that she's protecting her daughter and her family, and
because her husband, Brock, had some domestic violence case be
(07:34):
brought up on the show in the past. He already
had a lot of backlash and scrutiny from that, and
if she was also in a domestic violence physical assault case,
then that would just really look bad for their family
and possibly jeopardize their parenthood with their daughter. Perhaps I
(07:59):
think that's why she felt so emotionally charged about it,
because I think she went to survival mode, like she
felt like her child was being threatened or she was
being threatened, with the fact that it could go really south,
really quickly, and so she has all the reason in
(08:20):
the world to lie about it and defend herself and
go as hard as she did. But in answering your question,
I can't take on that guilt that I felt in
that moment of Wow, I feel guilty for pressing charges
(08:42):
against somebody who assaulted me. That wouldn't make sense because
I didn't do anything wrong in this instance. Yes, I've
done wrong. I understand her anger, but her actions are
unacceptable if we separate the two instances, because they are
two separate things, and that moment, I did not do
(09:06):
anything that deserved a punch in the face, and so
the way she just took that, denied it completely. There's
a term, it's called DARVO, deny attack, reverse victim, and offender.
So she denied it completely. She attacked me and my character,
(09:29):
saying I'm a known liar and cheat. She took her
lawyer went to the court steps and said that I
am abusing the court system, which is not true. And
she said that I was deflecting and not taking accountability
and that's the reason that I quote unquote made that up.
(09:50):
So you know, in this instance, Shina did like pull
that darvo, and I can't take on that resc responsibility.
Like actions have consequences, it's out of my control how
you react to what those consequences are.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Can you also go a little bit further on that
and explain that process of when you decided not to
and how you worked with the attorneys and what she knew.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The whole temporary restraining order came about when I told
my family about what happened and they said that that's
not cool and I need to file a police report.
I need to go to the doctor and have him
examine my eye and document that this happened. And there
was like this question of filing a restraining order, and
(10:41):
I said, as long as it doesn't go on her
permanent record, Like I just want to know that it's
not going to go on her permanent record. It's a
temporary situation. It's not going to be in effect. And
doing the temporary restraining order, I was trying to get
everything out of the way so I could go off
with my family and take some time to myself because
it was so overwhelming. So I did everything that I
(11:05):
needed to do in one day, and I filled out
the paperwork, I signed it, we submitted it. I had
no intentions of serving Sena that paperwork. It was supposed
to be something that I had in my back pocket
in case she came forward lying saying that I assaulted her,
(11:26):
or in case she just became super vindictive and would
not stop talking about me in this instance, which she
did anyway. But I digress. If you check the records,
you will see that nowhere did I upload a photo
(11:46):
of that document. I had no idea that TMZ would
be searching for court documents. They released it, and so
that took me off guard. And this was supposed to
be something that I could pull out if I needed to,
not just like Oh, it's out there, and now she's
thinking the worst. And I'm, you know, like, and people
(12:07):
are calling me asking me to drop it, and I'm like,
this wasn't even supposed to be a thing. I don't
even think it's in effect, Like I didn't know how
that legal system worked, very complicated. Anyway, I decided to
drop the restraining order, and I worked with my legal
team to do that, and I tried to make it
(12:29):
clear to Shina that I was dropping it like she wanted.
She's been asking our mutual friends to contact me to
get them to convince me to drop the restraining order,
and instead of believing me, I think she was relieved
at first when she got the paperwork I gave to
Andy and Andy gave to her, and then she took
(12:51):
a photo of the paperwork sented to her lawyer. Her
lawyer said it's fake and it's not true, and we're
going to go to court anyway, and so then she
was mad again. And it just wasn't resolved in the
way that it should have, Like it should have just
ended there and it could have just been done with,
(13:12):
but instead she made a whole spectacle of it, going
to the core and making this statement to the press
and saying like I lost because I didn't show up,
which is not the case. I already told her I
was dropping it and I wasn't going to show up,
(13:32):
and by not showing up it means that the case
is dropped. But she decided to spend that narrative and
say that I lost and that she's vindicated for her actions.
Have you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Tried to reach out and talked to her after all
this or do you have plans on doing that down
the line.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
No, I don't plan on ever talking to her. Again.
I don't have many boundaries, but one of them is
physical violence. If you harm me physically, or if you
harm any living animal physically, I will effective and immediately
cut you out of my life. And you you know,
(14:15):
like that is a solid, hard boundary that I have
for myself. And it's sad looking at that and thinking like,
oh wow, things really have to get to such an
extreme for you to draw these boundaries. So I'm working
with my therapist now on how to create these boundaries
so that things won't escalate to this crisis breaking point.
(14:37):
So if that answers the question, no, I don't plan
on reaching out to her. I have been working on
my list of resentments towards people, and I don't know
what the next step is necessarily, but I don't Yeah,
I don't know. We'll see what the future holds, but
I don't plan on having a relationship ever with Sheena.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Going back to this last season, do you think that
Ken and Lisa knew about the fair before it was revealed?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I don't know if Ken and Lisa knew about the
fair as much as I think production probably knew about
the fair. They did catch us in can kuon Like
there's a moment that they caught on camera of Tom
like slapping my ass like right behind Ari on his
back and me pushing his hand away, and they caught that.
(15:45):
I know that they saw it because they kept it
in there. They also teased the affair with the trailer
that came out, and the trailer came out obviously before
season ten came out. So I have a plus. Producers
are all up in our business. They're looking at what
we're posting all the time, who we're hanging out with,
(16:08):
They're hearing what we're saying, like when cameras aren't rolling
because we have mike packs on and so it's very enmeshed,
and I would be very surprised if they did not
know about it.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Can you address your behavior towards Katie and her mom
at Sir in the original finale? And have you reflected
on how you treated her while she was trying to
heal from a divorce and have boundaries?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I have reflected on that, and I do regret a
lot of how I behave towards Katie. I realize now
that she was going through her own heartbreak and her
own pain and going through a divorce is not something
that anybody wants to go through, and seeing your ex
with somebody else's devastating. And so I played a part
(16:58):
in being the fat and I think to me it
didn't seem real. I lacked empathy for the position I
was putting her in and the motions that were coming
up for her. And I really regret a lot of
how I behaved in those situations. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And can you aggress the threuttle comment? And did you
really mean it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So with a thruptle comment? It was strange like Tom
and Ariana give off an open relationship vibe, and I
know that they say that they're not in an open
relationship but like the lines were very blurry, and I
know Tom would test her with certain things. Me being
(17:49):
there kind of like pushing this boundary to see what
he could get away with. Ariana seemed totally fine in
some instances, for example that pool scene in Cancun where
she went topless and I went in in address, and
like we were all three in the jacuzzi.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It gives mixed signals. I also know that like Arianna
and Laala have had this little thing in the backseat
of the car when Tom was driving. And Tom has
also said like, oh yeah, Arianna and I check out
girls together. And so it's these specific examples that make
(18:30):
up this concept of an open relationship. And I don't
know it was It was a thought that I had
and it was shot down.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So you did mean it in the moment?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I oh yeah, yeah, I mended in the moment. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
What was the plan if no one found out about
the affair? Would you have debuted as a couple in
this next season? And did you talk about a plant?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
He was saying, Look, people hated Ariana in the beginning,
and then they realized that we were sticking together and
we weren't going anywhere, and so they had to accept
it and they ended up loving her, and so it
could be the same for us. Isn't it funny how
(19:19):
history repeats itself. I think in his mind, he's gotten
away with it before that he could get away with
it again. And I think I was just naive and
wishful thinking that this could work out the way that
I wanted it to, because ultimately, at that time I
did want to be with him, you know, like I
was hoping for the best. I guess I don't know,
(19:42):
But that's the thing too, because I was like, we
need to tell Ariana before the reunion, Like we can't
go into the reunion with her not knowing, because I
feel like that just really really wouldn't be fair on her.
And the one thing that we got hung up on,
(20:02):
like he did not want her to know when it
first started, and I don't see the point in lying
about those things, because isn't it much better to just
like be upfront and honest and tell the truth and
be like, look, this is how it is. I know
it hurts you to hear this, but like it's doing
you an injustice for you not to know.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But then why didn't you bring it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Up to Ariana. I almost did. I there were a
few instances that I almost brought it up to Ariana.
I told Tom, I was like, maybe I should tell Ariana.
And he was like no, no, no, no, no, no,
You're not going to tell Ariana. And I was like, Okay,
then you're gonna tell Ariana. And so I was kind
(20:47):
of waiting on him to tell her. It was my
duty to tell her. Yes, I know that in that moment,
I felt like it was more of his responsibility, him
being in that relationship with her, for him to tell
her and for him to break.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Up with her. What is it about Sandoval that he's
able to have this power and influence over people? What
do you think it is?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I think Sandoval? I don't know. I think some people
can call it like some people were able to see
this from a mile away, and maybe those are the
people that have experienced toxic relationships before that they could
kind of see his pattern. For me, I think it
(21:41):
was the way that he presented himself like he seemed
like this selfless guy who would always root for the underdog,
who wanted everyone to succeed and was selfless and would
be very like giving to people a need and like
went out of his way to be that for other people.
(22:04):
I think a lot of that is driven by his
own ego, and so when I saw it, I saw
it as this kind soul who's giving and like figured
something out in life, and in reality, I think it
was just like what he wanted people to believe about him,
(22:27):
and I was, you know, I was blinded by that.
I had those rose colored lenses on, and so all
of those red flags I didn't really pinpoint as red flags,
and I didn't allow myself to register them to be
that way. And I didn't want to believe it because
I have known him for so long and he had
(22:49):
like consistently been this type of person throughout those years.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So yeah, and just one last question to wrap this
episode up. I think a lot of people have been
wondering you were so emotionless at the reunion. Yeah, and
then in the last five minutes you were being so
honest And there was a huge drastic shift.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Why I was compartmentalizing for the reunion, I was really
like taking direction from somebody and besides like it being
super overwhelming and like there's a lot going on, the
process of the trailer going to the filming site, and
(23:34):
like the exchange of that with Sheena and then Sandoval
telling me to stick to the story and just like
observing and trying to keep my cool. And usually I'm
the type of person to not overreact to things, like
I will be able to keep my cool in crisis moments,
(23:58):
which I guess is a blessing and occur. But I
think because I wasn't being honest, I wasn't being truthful.
I wasn't like revealing anything about myself. I wasn't able
to be emotional in that way. And so I think
that's why you see that dichotomy, that big shift in
(24:18):
the last five minutes of that interview, because well the
interview was a lot more than five minutes, by the way,
the last five minutes of season ten, you see me
break down because I want to come clean and I'm
still holding things back because I don't want to betray
(24:39):
Tom because he is the one person that I have left,
Like in my world, it seemed like he was the
only person, like he got me, he understood me, he
was there for me in all of this time, or
so I believed, and I by revealing these things, I
(25:01):
was quote unquote betraying him. And I think that was
also a really hard part for me because it's like, Okay,
once I do this, that's that's it, Like he's never
going to forgive me. Turns out he was mad when
I told him, but he was like, don't ever do
that to me again. When you say you're going to
(25:22):
do something, you have to do it. You have to
follow through with it, like that's part of being a
reliable person. And he's like, I've given you so many
chances and like, if you do this one more time,
then you're I can't pursue a relationship with you. And
through my trauma therapy, that was like a big thing
that I was working on because I was like, well, look,
(25:43):
I betrayed Tom by telling this truth. And my therapist
was like whoa, whoa, But didn't Tom betray you first?
And I was like how, you know, Like I couldn't
see it, and so I had to really think that,
like how did Tom betray me? Oh? He asked me
(26:04):
to lie when he knew that I wasn't a good liar,
and I expressed to him that I don't like lying.
He put me in a really bad position with my
friendships and this placement of being on this international reality
TV show that my reputation was on the line. He
(26:26):
knew I was going through this heartbreak, and I've heard
him say on his interviews like, oh, Rackel really was
coming into her own and that's what attracted him to me.
And I'm like, you asshole, You could have just let
me be, like, let me live. Why can't you cheer
me on as a friend. And the biggest way he
(26:48):
betrayed me was filming me without my consent. I can
see the impact that the show had on my decisions,
the impact that my trauma and my connection with Tom
had on those decisions, and my trust in him, and
betraying myself in that process. You know, I've been able
(27:11):
to see a lot clearer now, and that's what I needed.
I needed that space to gain that clarity. Otherwise, if
I went back to do the show, it would just
be all jumbled up in a million pieces. Once again.
It would have been me and Tom versus the world,
(27:32):
and I would have fallen into unhealthy patterns
This is Rachel Go's Rogue. This is Rachel Levis, your
host of Rachel Goes Rogue. I'm here with my iHeart
producers and they'll be helping me go through different questions
things that you guys want answered. We took to Instagram
and prompted you guys to ask me a few questions,
(00:27):
wanting to know what you wanted, clear it up, the
things that have been on your mind. And I'm ready
to answer everything. So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
So you didn't even end up with Tom, and looking back,
do you think all the drama was worth it? And
do you regret your time spent with him?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I don't think all the drama was worth it. No,
I have a lot of regrets with that. I you know,
part of me wishes that well. I don't know. It's
complicated too, but I know the comments out there saying, oh,
you blew up your life, you blew up everyone else's
life for nothing. You're not even with Tom and almost
(01:12):
like an entitlement piece of like we at least as viewers,
deserve to see you guys at least take a shot
at a relationship since you eft it all up for
everyone and to that I say, I don't need to
do that if I know that this relationship is not
good for me and it got me at my lowest
(01:35):
of lows. So in trying to improve on myself and
be a better person and grow and learn from my mistakes,
getting back with Tom would be a step backwards. As
a cast member who has been influenced by fans in
the past and wanting to explore certain things, I can
see like that part of me that wants to fulfill
(01:59):
that request, but in reality it's just not a good idea.
And I hope that you respect my decision to not
have Tom in my life.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And now that you're not with him, how do you
feel about his treatment towards Ariana and how he blames
her for cheating.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't approve of that at all. I think that
Tom uses Ariana's mental health against her and it's very
manipulative and messed up. I think he could have gone
about it in a much more mature way, but who
knows if he's even capable of that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And you've said your relationship with Ariana was for the
show and not deep or genuine, but she disagrees. So
why do you think you're not on the same page.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
This is an interesting one. Okay, hold on, we need
to backtrack a minute because there's a backstory to how
all of this played out. Back when I was with
James and the pandemic hit, we were cooped up together,
too scared to like go out at all, And I
(03:08):
found out later Tom told me that he had a
lot of friends over during the pandemic and I was like, dang,
Like that would have been nice to be invited to
because my COVID experience was hell. And so I feel
like a lot of people didn't invite us to places
(03:30):
because they didn't enjoy being around James. And before that, like,
I wasn't that close with the cast, Like the closest
person that I was in relation to was Sena, and
during the pandemic, Sheena had some specifications on who I
couldn't and could be friends with in order for her
(03:53):
to allow me into her house. All of this to say,
when we filmed season nine, which was our lowest point season,
it was right at the end of the COVID lockdown.
We were really restricted on filming. Different places weren't allowing filming.
(04:17):
A lot of places were still closed. We had regulations
on what kind of food we could eat and where
it came from. We had COVID tests every single day
that we were filming or the day prior, and we
still did throughout season ten as well. But that was
when I started getting closer with Arianna and the rest
(04:41):
of the cast, because we kind of were in this
world together, like this unique experience we got to film
during this lockdown. And it was still not close close friendship,
but we definitely had warmed up together. When James and
(05:04):
I broke up, I had a conversation with Sheena, Arianna,
Jenny Ting, and my friend Paige, and I explained to
them why James and I broke up, like the real
reason why we broke up. And during that time, Sena
and I got pretty close. I wasn't hanging out with Ariana,
(05:25):
but as we were filming, you know, we had a
few call times together bathing, suit shopping and her getting
ready at my apartment before one of the nights out.
And so I can see how it looks like we
had a much much closer friendship than we did, but
(05:45):
in reality, I was much closer to Sheena at that time. Arianna,
like she's never been somebody who spoke down to me,
and so I think that's fortunate that I played into that.
I am very remorseful about that, and I'm making these
(06:07):
decisions in my life now going forward to never betray
a friend like that again. Every single person deserves that
same level of basic respect.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You said you were a lot closer to Shina. Do
you feel any guilt for how hurt Sheina was from
all of this?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Here's the thing. I did feel guilt when she Sina
was talking about how the temporary restraining order affected her
in that moment. And I've worked through this with therapy
and a professional and yes, okay, it's okay to feel
(06:49):
guilt in that situation. But Sheina assaulted me, and there
are consequences to your actions, if anyone knows that. I know,
and I feel like it's very hypocritical of her to
say that I need to take accountability for my actions
when I believe I've been taking accountability this whole time.
(07:12):
Yet she still won't admit to what actually happened that night,
and in a way like I don't expect her to,
I know she has reasons for not admitting it. I
know that she's protecting her daughter and her family, and
because her husband, Brock, had some domestic violence case be
(07:34):
brought up on the show in the past. He already
had a lot of backlash and scrutiny from that, and
if she was also in a domestic violence physical assault case,
then that would just really look bad for their family
and possibly jeopardize their parenthood with their daughter. Perhaps I
(07:59):
think that's why she felt so emotionally charged about it,
because I think she went to survival mode, like she
felt like her child was being threatened or she was
being threatened, with the fact that it could go really south,
really quickly, and so she has all the reason in
(08:20):
the world to lie about it and defend herself and
go as hard as she did. But in answering your question,
I can't take on that guilt that I felt in
that moment of Wow, I feel guilty for pressing charges
(08:42):
against somebody who assaulted me. That wouldn't make sense because
I didn't do anything wrong in this instance. Yes, I've
done wrong. I understand her anger, but her actions are
unacceptable if we separate the two instances, because they are
two separate things, and that moment, I did not do
(09:06):
anything that deserved a punch in the face, and so
the way she just took that, denied it completely. There's
a term, it's called DARVO, deny attack, reverse victim, and offender.
So she denied it completely. She attacked me and my character,
(09:29):
saying I'm a known liar and cheat. She took her
lawyer went to the court steps and said that I
am abusing the court system, which is not true. And
she said that I was deflecting and not taking accountability
and that's the reason that I quote unquote made that up.
(09:50):
So you know, in this instance, Shina did like pull
that darvo, and I can't take on that resc responsibility.
Like actions have consequences, it's out of my control how
you react to what those consequences are.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Can you also go a little bit further on that
and explain that process of when you decided not to
and how you worked with the attorneys and what she knew.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The whole temporary restraining order came about when I told
my family about what happened and they said that that's
not cool and I need to file a police report.
I need to go to the doctor and have him
examine my eye and document that this happened. And there
was like this question of filing a restraining order, and
(10:41):
I said, as long as it doesn't go on her
permanent record, Like I just want to know that it's
not going to go on her permanent record. It's a
temporary situation. It's not going to be in effect. And
doing the temporary restraining order, I was trying to get
everything out of the way so I could go off
with my family and take some time to myself because
it was so overwhelming. So I did everything that I
(11:05):
needed to do in one day, and I filled out
the paperwork, I signed it, we submitted it. I had
no intentions of serving Sena that paperwork. It was supposed
to be something that I had in my back pocket
in case she came forward lying saying that I assaulted her,
(11:26):
or in case she just became super vindictive and would
not stop talking about me in this instance, which she
did anyway. But I digress. If you check the records,
you will see that nowhere did I upload a photo
(11:46):
of that document. I had no idea that TMZ would
be searching for court documents. They released it, and so
that took me off guard. And this was supposed to
be something that I could pull out if I needed to,
not just like Oh, it's out there, and now she's
thinking the worst. And I'm, you know, like, and people
(12:07):
are calling me asking me to drop it, and I'm like,
this wasn't even supposed to be a thing. I don't
even think it's in effect, Like I didn't know how
that legal system worked, very complicated. Anyway, I decided to
drop the restraining order, and I worked with my legal
team to do that, and I tried to make it
(12:29):
clear to Shina that I was dropping it like she wanted.
She's been asking our mutual friends to contact me to
get them to convince me to drop the restraining order,
and instead of believing me, I think she was relieved
at first when she got the paperwork I gave to
Andy and Andy gave to her, and then she took
(12:51):
a photo of the paperwork sented to her lawyer. Her
lawyer said it's fake and it's not true, and we're
going to go to court anyway, and so then she
was mad again. And it just wasn't resolved in the
way that it should have, Like it should have just
ended there and it could have just been done with,
(13:12):
but instead she made a whole spectacle of it, going
to the core and making this statement to the press
and saying like I lost because I didn't show up,
which is not the case. I already told her I
was dropping it and I wasn't going to show up,
(13:32):
and by not showing up it means that the case
is dropped. But she decided to spend that narrative and
say that I lost and that she's vindicated for her actions.
Have you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Tried to reach out and talked to her after all
this or do you have plans on doing that down
the line.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
No, I don't plan on ever talking to her. Again.
I don't have many boundaries, but one of them is
physical violence. If you harm me physically, or if you
harm any living animal physically, I will effective and immediately
cut you out of my life. And you you know,
(14:15):
like that is a solid, hard boundary that I have
for myself. And it's sad looking at that and thinking like,
oh wow, things really have to get to such an
extreme for you to draw these boundaries. So I'm working
with my therapist now on how to create these boundaries
so that things won't escalate to this crisis breaking point.
(14:37):
So if that answers the question, no, I don't plan
on reaching out to her. I have been working on
my list of resentments towards people, and I don't know
what the next step is necessarily, but I don't Yeah,
I don't know. We'll see what the future holds, but
I don't plan on having a relationship ever with Sheena.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Going back to this last season, do you think that
Ken and Lisa knew about the fair before it was revealed?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I don't know if Ken and Lisa knew about the
fair as much as I think production probably knew about
the fair. They did catch us in can kuon Like
there's a moment that they caught on camera of Tom
like slapping my ass like right behind Ari on his
back and me pushing his hand away, and they caught that.
(15:45):
I know that they saw it because they kept it
in there. They also teased the affair with the trailer
that came out, and the trailer came out obviously before
season ten came out. So I have a plus. Producers
are all up in our business. They're looking at what
we're posting all the time, who we're hanging out with,
(16:08):
They're hearing what we're saying, like when cameras aren't rolling
because we have mike packs on and so it's very enmeshed,
and I would be very surprised if they did not
know about it.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Can you address your behavior towards Katie and her mom
at Sir in the original finale? And have you reflected
on how you treated her while she was trying to
heal from a divorce and have boundaries?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I have reflected on that, and I do regret a
lot of how I behave towards Katie. I realize now
that she was going through her own heartbreak and her
own pain and going through a divorce is not something
that anybody wants to go through, and seeing your ex
with somebody else's devastating. And so I played a part
(16:58):
in being the fat and I think to me it
didn't seem real. I lacked empathy for the position I
was putting her in and the motions that were coming
up for her. And I really regret a lot of
how I behaved in those situations. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
And can you aggress the threuttle comment? And did you
really mean it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So with a thruptle comment? It was strange like Tom
and Ariana give off an open relationship vibe, and I
know that they say that they're not in an open
relationship but like the lines were very blurry, and I
know Tom would test her with certain things. Me being
(17:49):
there kind of like pushing this boundary to see what
he could get away with. Ariana seemed totally fine in
some instances, for example that pool scene in Cancun where
she went topless and I went in in address, and
like we were all three in the jacuzzi.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And so.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
It gives mixed signals. I also know that like Arianna
and Laala have had this little thing in the backseat
of the car when Tom was driving. And Tom has
also said like, oh yeah, Arianna and I check out
girls together. And so it's these specific examples that make
(18:30):
up this concept of an open relationship. And I don't
know it was It was a thought that I had
and it was shot down.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So you did mean it in the moment?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I oh yeah, yeah, I mended in the moment. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
What was the plan if no one found out about
the affair? Would you have debuted as a couple in
this next season? And did you talk about a plant?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
He was saying, Look, people hated Ariana in the beginning,
and then they realized that we were sticking together and
we weren't going anywhere, and so they had to accept
it and they ended up loving her, and so it
could be the same for us. Isn't it funny how
(19:19):
history repeats itself. I think in his mind, he's gotten
away with it before that he could get away with
it again. And I think I was just naive and
wishful thinking that this could work out the way that
I wanted it to, because ultimately, at that time I
did want to be with him, you know, like I
was hoping for the best. I guess I don't know,
(19:42):
But that's the thing too, because I was like, we
need to tell Ariana before the reunion, Like we can't
go into the reunion with her not knowing, because I
feel like that just really really wouldn't be fair on her.
And the one thing that we got hung up on,
(20:02):
like he did not want her to know when it
first started, and I don't see the point in lying
about those things, because isn't it much better to just
like be upfront and honest and tell the truth and
be like, look, this is how it is. I know
it hurts you to hear this, but like it's doing
you an injustice for you not to know.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
But then why didn't you bring it.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Up to Ariana. I almost did. I there were a
few instances that I almost brought it up to Ariana.
I told Tom, I was like, maybe I should tell Ariana.
And he was like no, no, no, no, no, no,
You're not going to tell Ariana. And I was like, Okay,
then you're gonna tell Ariana. And so I was kind
(20:47):
of waiting on him to tell her. It was my
duty to tell her. Yes, I know that in that moment,
I felt like it was more of his responsibility, him
being in that relationship with her, for him to tell
her and for him to break.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Up with her. What is it about Sandoval that he's
able to have this power and influence over people? What
do you think it is?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I think Sandoval? I don't know. I think some people
can call it like some people were able to see
this from a mile away, and maybe those are the
people that have experienced toxic relationships before that they could
kind of see his pattern. For me, I think it
(21:41):
was the way that he presented himself like he seemed
like this selfless guy who would always root for the underdog,
who wanted everyone to succeed and was selfless and would
be very like giving to people a need and like
went out of his way to be that for other people.
(22:04):
I think a lot of that is driven by his
own ego, and so when I saw it, I saw
it as this kind soul who's giving and like figured
something out in life, and in reality, I think it
was just like what he wanted people to believe about him,
(22:27):
and I was, you know, I was blinded by that.
I had those rose colored lenses on, and so all
of those red flags I didn't really pinpoint as red flags,
and I didn't allow myself to register them to be
that way. And I didn't want to believe it because
I have known him for so long and he had
(22:49):
like consistently been this type of person throughout those years.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So yeah, and just one last question to wrap this
episode up. I think a lot of people have been
wondering you were so emotionless at the reunion. Yeah, and
then in the last five minutes you were being so
honest And there was a huge drastic shift.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Why I was compartmentalizing for the reunion, I was really
like taking direction from somebody and besides like it being
super overwhelming and like there's a lot going on, the
process of the trailer going to the filming site, and
(23:34):
like the exchange of that with Sheena and then Sandoval
telling me to stick to the story and just like
observing and trying to keep my cool. And usually I'm
the type of person to not overreact to things, like
I will be able to keep my cool in crisis moments,
(23:58):
which I guess is a blessing and occur. But I
think because I wasn't being honest, I wasn't being truthful.
I wasn't like revealing anything about myself. I wasn't able
to be emotional in that way. And so I think
that's why you see that dichotomy, that big shift in
(24:18):
the last five minutes of that interview, because well the
interview was a lot more than five minutes, by the way,
the last five minutes of season ten, you see me
break down because I want to come clean and I'm
still holding things back because I don't want to betray
(24:39):
Tom because he is the one person that I have left,
Like in my world, it seemed like he was the
only person, like he got me, he understood me, he
was there for me in all of this time, or
so I believed, and I by revealing these things, I
(25:01):
was quote unquote betraying him. And I think that was
also a really hard part for me because it's like, Okay,
once I do this, that's that's it, Like he's never
going to forgive me. Turns out he was mad when
I told him, but he was like, don't ever do
that to me again. When you say you're going to
(25:22):
do something, you have to do it. You have to
follow through with it, like that's part of being a
reliable person. And he's like, I've given you so many
chances and like, if you do this one more time,
then you're I can't pursue a relationship with you. And
through my trauma therapy, that was like a big thing
that I was working on because I was like, well, look,
(25:43):
I betrayed Tom by telling this truth. And my therapist
was like whoa, whoa, But didn't Tom betray you first?
And I was like how, you know, Like I couldn't
see it, and so I had to really think that,
like how did Tom betray me? Oh? He asked me
(26:04):
to lie when he knew that I wasn't a good liar,
and I expressed to him that I don't like lying.
He put me in a really bad position with my
friendships and this placement of being on this international reality
TV show that my reputation was on the line. He
(26:26):
knew I was going through this heartbreak, and I've heard
him say on his interviews like, oh, Rackel really was
coming into her own and that's what attracted him to me.
And I'm like, you asshole, You could have just let
me be, like, let me live. Why can't you cheer
me on as a friend. And the biggest way he
(26:48):
betrayed me was filming me without my consent. I can
see the impact that the show had on my decisions,
the impact that my trauma and my connection with Tom
had on those decisions, and my trust in him, and
betraying myself in that process. You know, I've been able
(27:11):
to see a lot clearer now, and that's what I needed.
I needed that space to gain that clarity. Otherwise, if
I went back to do the show, it would just
be all jumbled up in a million pieces. Once again.
It would have been me and Tom versus the world,
(27:32):
and I would have fallen into unhealthy patterns
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