The digital media landscape is ripe for disruption by diversification – and Kristi Argyilan is betting big on retail media networks to fill the void. We sit down with the Albertsons vice president of retail media to discuss why retailers sit in a unique position to understand their customers and provide high quality data; how the medium has evolved since the early days of in-store marketing; and how marketers and agencies are capitalizing on the benefits and working to understand the nascent space. She also touches on how retailers are managing the current challenge of delicately balancing inventory, pricing and promotion.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of I Heart Radio. There
is so much room for higher quality competition that I
think retail media is driving right into that opening. Hi,
I'm Michael Casson. Welcome to Good Company, where I'll explore
(00:20):
how marketing, media, entertainment and tech are intersecting, transforming our
lives and the way we do business at a breakneck speed.
I'll be joined by some of the greatest business minds
at strongest leaders who will share how they build companies
from the ground up or transform them from the inside out.
My bed is you'll pick up a lesson or two
along the way. It's all good. It is truly a
(00:45):
pleasure today to welcome Christie Argalin. Christy is currently the
senior vice president of Retail Media, charged with really leading
the expansion of Albertson's retail media offering. But more importantly,
Christie is a long time friend and colleague who I've
had the pleasure of working with in many different aspects
(01:06):
of her life. And I think, Christie, it's fair to say,
not to embarrass you, but you have you have the
moves and the moves I talked about between being a
buyer and a seller. You know, I've always said that
people who have worked on both sides of that equation
the move I talked about his body language. Buyers tend
(01:28):
to lean back, Sellers tend to lead in. And I
always kidded with Cheryl Sandberg when she wrote the book
Lean In, that I take precedent on that because I
always talked about it as as you know, that nuance
of how you lean in or you lean back. You've
leaned in and you've leaned back. You've been a buyer
and a seller. When we first met, you were on
the agency side, working in technology, and then when as
(01:52):
we continue to engage, you went to the brand side
and you know, work together a target and other things.
But here we are in the basics. Here we are
in the supermarket business. And uh, you know, I mean
to let you know, I'm going to shut up. But
my first proper job other than a paper route was
(02:12):
working as a bad boy in a supermarket. So I
got my beginnings in a supermarket as well. That was
my actually my family's business when I was young. I
had an experience or two. So I feel like it's
full circle for me. But but Christie, let me go
back to welcoming you and thank you for joining me, well,
(02:33):
thank you for having me, Michael. It's just a privilege
and a joy to be able to sit with you
today and have a conversation about the journey because I've
definitely seen all sides of the business, which you know,
it's been really satisfying for me and why I stay
with it. Well, and as you talk about that journey, Christie,
(02:54):
I think you find yourself now at one of the
most interesting points on the journey. And when we at
mediately give the presentations that you've listened to over the
years what we call our state of the state, one
of the areas that we focus on is an incredibly
important area in the business today is the advent and
really the growth and importance of retail media and what
(03:17):
that all means. And you know, you've been involved in
this now for a while. You're a veteran for sure,
in this new fangled thing and it's not so new
anymore called retail media. What I'd love you to really
talk about is, you know, to kick us off, is
how would you define that Retailers have been in the
media business for a very long time, but a lot
(03:39):
of the was the wall of TVs at the back
of one of the big box stores, or the signage
that was sitting at the end of a shelf on
the aisles to advertise and market a product, or the
coupons that spit out on the on your receipt at
the end of your shopping trap. Retail media networks really
(04:02):
started to pop up when retailers started to understand they
are uniquely positioned to really know customers and most adult
US customers, retailers see them more than a lot of
other other companies do. And not only do we see
them and know them, but we also understand what things
(04:25):
they prefer um, so we have insight into true actions
the groups of customers are taking. That is an incredibly
important insight into customer behaviors that a lot of other
company have. If you even look at a Google or Facebook,
they don't really know that a sale have um what
(04:48):
retailers do. And so the idea of marrying the database
that we sit on top of the audiences that we
can build, to marry that with all of the now
the digital media properties at retailer's own, and then even
more so to apply those audiences to other media platforms
that exist. It's just offering a really unique media option
(05:12):
in the marketplace, and in the marketplace it needs a
little bit more diversification at it well, and Christy, you
talked about it without actually saying it, but you're talking
about that first party data, that that that information and
and that's the goal, right. I mean, at the end
of the day, you and I know this, my friend,
and I think you know Rashot well or certainly have
(05:34):
interacted over the years. We were shot to Baccarola and
I give him credit for this all the time, and
my team tires of hearing it. But he was one
of the people who really crystallized for me when we
were working on a financial services account together. He talked
about data and likened it to oil and said data
is like oil, and it's in the ground. It's not
(05:55):
worth anything. It's when you take it out of the
ground and refine it it is worth something. And data
is the same kind of a commodity, if you will.
If the data doesn't lead to insights, then it's just
kind of what we used to say, junk in your trunk.
It doesn't really matter. You're in a position whereas a
retailer at the level and scope and size of Albertson's
(06:18):
and the experience you had a target as well. You know,
you've got enormous data, and the ability to refine that
data with the marketer and understand how that's going to
play out is critically important, right, I mean, isn't that
part of the holy Grail? I mean, that's the fundamental reason.
And the if you consider the scale, so the largest
(06:41):
retailers know at least half of the adult US population
and what their purchase behaviors are, and that scaled database,
and that to have it be that high quality, of
that high fidelity is unusual in the marketplace, and retailers
have come to understand the importance of that also the
(07:04):
importance of using their customers better and to make sure
that they are doing that within the relationship they have
with their customers, to do it within their preferences for
privacy and all of the other pieces that go along
with that. And and and Christie, let me ask a question,
because you talked about, you know, the in store marketing
(07:25):
that it always existed. You know, we would have referred
to that in the old days, I mean about a
month ago. I'm kidding, but shopper marketing, Yes, in some fashion,
and that was always a separate budget. You know consumer
package goods companies, and you know any of the players
at retail that shopper marketing was a separate budget. Is
(07:46):
that where this money is coming from? Is that where
the retail media network revenue model comes from? Effectively, from
your perspective, that's only part of it. What we consistently
see is that the shopper marketing budgets and marketing budgets
of brand marketing budgets tend to be about the same size,
(08:08):
and so there's plenty of revenue to be gathered through
shopper marketing budgets, and those budgets are going more and more,
actually they've gone digital. Um in the mix of things
that are non digital has remains steady your rear, well,
the amount of money that gets invested in digital as well.
It's the other piece though, is that as data privacy
(08:32):
puts pressure on but effectually called drifters and a lot
of that third ring lower quality data that's coming out
of the marketplace, marketers are far more aware of the
quality of the data that they had been transacting off
of it and are looking for better data sources and
better media options that tie better to real people taking
(08:58):
real actions. Um, what do we call it? Customers? Not cookies? Um,
So it's real. It's like real people doing real things. Naturally,
the results are going to be stronger, and so marketers
are understanding the importance of what retail media networks can
bring as well, and so we're seeing more marketing brand
marketing dollars move towards retail media networks. We're also seeing, though,
(09:23):
organization by organization, many are combining those budgets because of
the discipline and what you need to prove for our
oy s. The say and we've talked, you know, and
this is a word that that resonates with me more
than most because I was a featured player in it.
But there was a book written a couple of years
ago you might remember, called Frenemies, and it talked about
(09:44):
the unusual relationship that the marketplace had with people who
were both friends and enemies giving credit work credits to
He didn't make up the word, but he was the person,
Sir Martin Soil, who kind of coined it in our industry.
Relative to looking at primary early in those days, Google
and Facebook as being both the friend of the agencies
(10:05):
and the enemy of the agencies in that there was
a fear they were disintermediating the role of the agency.
And you know, when you and I met, you were
on the agency side. So you certainly understand that. My
question here is we've created a real unusual, new kind
of freenemies approach here because some of the largest marketers
in the world. Albertson's is a very large marketer as
(10:28):
a buyer of media from other sources, you know, advertising,
your product, your your retail capabilities, and now you're also
competing in a very real fashion. So you know, the
days of you just buying from you know, whether it's
NBC or ABC or you know, Paramount or you know,
(10:48):
the general publishing marketplace, you're also competing with them because
you're going after the same dollars that they are. It's
created a new dynamic. I mean, you understand it because
you've been on the media buying side and now you're
kind of really more on the media selling side. Yeah,
I mean, you kind of twisted that. My frontal lobe
(11:10):
of my brain is you're laying all of that out.
I mean absolutely, But they also benefit from us um
and so if you look at a partner like Google
or pinterest, and they want to figure out how to
grow the revenue that they get from a company like
an Albertson's. Most marketing budgets are not growing at significant
(11:33):
jumps year over year, but the media that we would
buy in service of a retail medium network in the
partners that we're building programs for will grow in the
double digits. Here are some of these publishers and so
if they can operate in a transparent and in a
true partnership, they benefit as well. Um, so there is
(11:57):
a been there for everybody. The other piece too, But Michael,
I'm the other side of that, and this is where
the enemy part of friend of Me comes from. In
a world where Amazon, Google and Facebook commands sixty five
of the digital media spend that happens in the US,
there's some room for diversidication in there. And even if
(12:20):
we I only need to capture two percent of that
in order to blow through my goal. So, um, you
know that there is so much room for higher quality
competition in the place, and I think that the data
privacy and the new practices of Google and Apple are
accelerating the need for the marketplace to really show up
(12:43):
in a better, more transparent, more accountable sort of way.
And I think retail media is driving right into that opening.
You hit on my button, and my button is the
issues that our industry is transforming on right now, we're
pivoting on and they're all the words that begin with
the letter TE. Those words are trust, transparency, technology, talent,
(13:04):
and transformation. They roll off my tongue because I've been
saying until I move face, but I haven't had a
conversation lately where it doesn't involve one of those words.
You just talked about, a transparency or accountability, trust in
the numbers, nobody grading their own homework, all the things
that we've talked about at you know, ad infinitum, you
(13:27):
knows as friends and colleagues, and particularly now, those are
critical words because with the deprecation of cookies and and
the privacy issues and all the things we've dealt with
over the last year or so, the value proposition is clear.
And you did mention you know what we used to
(13:48):
call the du appoly, But you couldn't take now in
a fair statement and say it was a duoppoly because
you have to put Amazon in that equation. Because I
think the number I read last year was that they
or this year that they at thirty one billion dollars
in advertising? That's right, yeah, and that's no longer a
side business. That's a I don't care how big, I
don't care what your revenue is. You know, there was
(14:12):
a famous quote years ago from a senator from Illinois,
Evert Dirkson, who famously said, a billion here, a billion there.
Pretty soon you're talking real money. You know, thirty one
billion dollars gets people's attention as an advertising You know,
it's interesting because retailers study Amazon so much. Retailers hustle, right,
(14:34):
and they're not completely you know, they're not in the
they're in some other business yet to be exact side hustle,
even by my standards. But you know, Christie, I think
you've said it, but I want to ask the question again,
where do you think that money is coming from your
targets create x amount of you know, billions? You want
(14:55):
to see the you know, we've certainly got Walmart and
Kroger and Walgreen's and CBS and Lows and Home Depot
and Macy's and you know everybody's got their retail media network.
Now where do you think the majority of that money
is coming from I would say, especially for the middle hotail,
(15:19):
but even for some of the top five players. If
you follow them closely, you'll see the kind of this
fast between we are just here for the endemic products
that we sell in our stores and online, and then
the next year there were a media company and then
it's back to we're here for our endemic partners. So um,
(15:39):
the bulk of the money, especially for the middle of
the montail is still coming from what you would typically
call shopper marketing it. But the real opportunity sits in
those national add dollars and how you're able to attached
and return on investment to those dollars in ways that
(16:00):
a lot of brand dollars can. And let me ask
you a more provocative question, perhaps, Christie. Not unlike search
and when search became and still is an important, you know,
tool in the toolkit for anybody trying to sell goods
or services. We had an industry that spawned called s
e O Search engine optimization in the retail media environment.
(16:24):
Do you think that the marketplace, the agency community, again
you come from that side originally, have they risen to
the occasion to understand how to navigate and optimize you know,
the brand's position and the retail media environment as much
as they should. I mean, I think, you know, selfishly,
because I do still have a rooting interest. Essential have
(16:45):
done a really good job of that. Do you think
the agencies in general understand this market well enough or
they are they still on a learning book? Yeah, I
think they're still on a learning term. But we've been
seeing some pretty big steps in that direction. And you know,
you'll recall it started with everybody creating their Amazon Specialist
team UM. Now those same teams are retail media. Yes,
(17:09):
So they're expanding the definition and they're thinking about it
more broadly, and they are dedicating the staff to understand it.
And then if you look at a publicist who bought
Citrus add that's a pretty big statement too in terms
of how they're leading into retail media. So we are
seeing these UM centers of excellence starting to emerge. There's
(17:30):
still a long way to go because what they're trying
to do is take a different kind of accountability model
and plug it into traditional ways of looking at our
o I UM and plugging it into bigger marketing mixed
modeling capabilities that are you know, kind of templated UM,
so pulling it all the way through and thinking about
(17:53):
how to incorporate those channels that can trually do close
with recording versus media metrics, I think is where the
challenge still hits. And I don't think they'll fully understand
the benefit of a retail media network until it can
get pulled all the way through to how they measure UM.
That's why I'm in retail media is the mechanics of
(18:14):
it are fascinating. The opportunity is really interesting to me.
So I've worked both sides of the industry, all signs
of the industry almost and there are gaps in the marketplace,
there are opportunities to have a better offering. Is another choice.
I'm not saying that retail media should be the only choice,
(18:34):
but it is a different and improved choice versus where
we've beend as a media marketplace. And so it's super
interesting to me to understand how the money flows, how
things are measured, all of the components that go into
being an effective media option UM and I just find
(18:54):
it fascinating to be able to get into the strategy
of it all, Like what's the advantage to a retailer
to be in this business all the way down to now,
how do I set up relationships that are based on
trust and transparency and where we both win, not one
has to win at the expense of the other um
but also the mechanics of being able to prove the effectiveness.
(19:17):
And that's where this category is still so Mason, because
we can measure the effectiveness of a campaign, but how
we get plugged into broader marketing mixed measurement I next
big frontier for us as a category to start to
crack well, because you and I both know a marketing
mixed model that doesn't have the right data inputs isn't
(19:38):
going to be worth much at the other end of it.
And to the degree you can refine what you put in,
you're going to get a better result coming out. I mean,
it's funny how that works in all aspects of our life. Christie,
let me ask another question, you know, and I said
this a lot. At the beginning of the pandemic, the
heroes in our worlds became different people. The heroes were
(20:00):
the frontline people. And you know, retail, the supermarket where
people get their food and sustenance is about as frontline
as you could be. During you know, the only place
I went, as so many people could say, the only
place I actually went for a few months, was to
the supermarket. I mean, there wasn't any place else you
(20:21):
were going if you if you could avoid it. But
we also witnessed that extraordinary moment where things that would
have taken five years took five days, and you were
you were still you know, in retail, not in a
supermarket at that point, but in in you were a
target at the beginning of the pandemic. And so uh.
(20:41):
In fact, I remember sitting with you in January when
none of us expected the world was gonna change in
you know, sixty days after I saw you in Las
Vegas in January, and you know, we all experienced it.
And here we are at the other maybe hopefully at
the other end. Although I would go to the Dorothy
(21:02):
Channel and Pavilion last night for the Alvin Ailey Dancers opening,
which was extraordinary and if I had never seen them,
and I will tell you a plug if you've never
seen them, I've seen them on television, but I've never
seen them in person. There extraordinary, But yet everyone was
still wearing a mask at the Dorothy Channel and pavilion
and here we are in April of two, so um,
(21:24):
you know we still are. We're there. You know, those
those heroes, those people, those frontline workers. You're at the forefront.
What does that feel like? I mean, you know, you're
not in the store, but you are. You're in the retails,
you're in the digital store. Yeah. Yeah. I mean a
couple of things. The store team members that show up
in the store every day and are willing to show
(21:47):
up in the stores every day to be able to
serve their customers, to feed their own families. You know,
I don't think we could appreciate them enough for the
fact that they really kept all of us fed, and
you know, the price and then made to all of
us UM is something that I think we will be
forever grateful for. The other thing that just has been
(22:10):
really fascinating to me is that this the pandemic has
taken some very general companies and taught them how to
read themselves and to bring themselves to the marketplace as
quickly as possible in completely different ways. And yet they're
still able to um show up quarterly with really great
(22:31):
earnings reports because they've been able to manage it. And
I know that sales changed and you know, customers shopped
in a very different way, and they moved so fast
and serve customer needs so well. Um, and those that
did are the ones that have really come out on
the other side a better company, a better community member,
(22:52):
a better employer. UM. What I love about Albertson's is
that it has really this leader should team that the
Beck has called together. It really knows how to operate fast.
I have never seen an executive team that can make
decisions and solve problems within an hour meeting versus you
(23:12):
months of analysis. Like they just move quick. Their instincts
are strong, and they know how to get things done
that really just their customers. So information from in store
and in digital has been really something to behold as
you as you know, Christie, I'm I'm close personal friends
with with somebody who was the majority owner of Albertson's,
(23:35):
uh you know, not so long ago. And I've had
the pleasure of visiting in Boise and and you're right, Look,
nothing is faster than retail. I learned that in the
beginning of my days in the media business, because we
did when I was running a media agency in the nineties.
We bought more supermarket media than anyone in the world.
So I understood retail at the earliest stage, and look,
(23:58):
I applied it to the entertainment and just tree back
then because we also worked for the Walt Disney Company,
and I said, moving marketing is about as retail as
it gets, except supermarket is really retail because it's it's
real time all the time. Movie marketing wasn't that dissimilar
because you were issuing a new movie every week. You're
(24:19):
issuing a new product every week, and you'd have to
you know, build that retail demand, you know, to get
butts and seats, you know, as you were opening a
movie for that first weekend right you know, it was
that magical first week then. But you know, the best
way to learn I've always felt the best way to
(24:39):
learn media and and the need for speed was working
with retail. And you know, it goes back to what
what what we talked about is, you know, you're at
the core. But on that level at the core, there's
also a place where you know, we hear it more
in the auto manufacturing business right now, but the supply
chain issues that we're dealing with as a as a
(25:02):
country right now you know, has had impact a retail
I mean, you know, a couple of months ago you
were seeing those pictures of empty shelves in the supermarkets
because you couldn't get the products there fast enough. Have
we have we gotten to a better place in that
regard a retail or? Are you seeing that we're still
pretty acute? Yeah? You know, it's still an issue all
(25:25):
of us to deal with, and how we manage inventory,
how we negotiate inventory with our partners, all those things
matter for all of us. What's interesting now is to
watch again as these container ships finally get to arrive
in port to now watch the imbalance. So now there's
too much stuff. In fact, I called a girlfriend the
other day, I'm like, I think we need to go
(25:46):
to t J Max. I'll bet we've got some good
stuff on their shelves right now. Um, So you know,
I think we're gonna see this too much, too little
kind of adjustment that we're all going to have to
manage through going forward. And you know, manning to inventory
and also making sure that pricing and promotion are meeting
customer needs right now are two areas that you know
(26:08):
you really focused on, as is the rest of the
ends well and and and you know, look, Albertson's, I
think you're the help me on ranking number two or
three largest food retailer to right. And and my friend
who used to be a significant owner of Albertson's told
(26:29):
me it was based on doors. The amount of doors
you have, you know, a lot, You've got thousands of doors,
thousands of doors. Um. But as the second largest food
retailer in the world, I guess, or certainly in the country,
the prognosis and obviously the market's been good to you
(26:50):
because you know, food didn't go out of style and
the ability to rise to the occasion. Albertson's has done it.
As you said, hats off to Vivec who came over
from Pepsi as I remember when he's Albertson's. So he
came over from the product side to the you know,
to the distribution and retail side. But but he came
(27:12):
with a with a mission because he's done such an
amazing job in really you know, pushing the company forward.
Tell me from your perspective, Christie, if we were here
a year from now, you know, what would be the
top thing on your agenda that's different today than today. Yeah,
I think, Um, you know, obviously, right now we're focused
(27:35):
on the launch we launched just a couple of weeks ago. UM.
Stabilizing the business sector the launch and driving momentum is
key for us. A year from now, I really want
to be leaning way into different ways to bring audiences
to the market, a fresh way to truly integrate the
(27:58):
measurement of what we do into some more standard marketing,
mixed modeling that goes on UM to watch the evolution
of the importance of DSPs versus SSPs, Like where in
the marketplace, how do you tap into that instead of supply?
And I'm also very curious about these publishers who don't
(28:19):
have a really strong data foundation to operate off of.
Once cookies and everything else gets pulled out of the
market and that so we have strict your privacy laws
and we have cookies going away. So it's gonna be
a fascinating week. Week. Yeah, thatthing else I week, Christie.
(28:41):
Let me ask you one final question. Most sentences today
in certainly commerce begin with the word content. You hear
it now constantly, content and commerce, content and commerce. I
hear it all the time, and I hearkened back to
twenty two years ago when I did the very very
first panel that I'd ever done in the marketing media
(29:02):
business where I was a moderate, not a moderator, but
a panelist. And the topic, believe it or not, it
was Variety Magazine and the n y U Stern School
of Business sponsoring a panel conversation and it was entitled
content and Commerce. So it's not a new affectation, It's
been around for a while. But do you see the
(29:22):
importance of content and I mean that in the content
creation and you know how we're driving commerce through content? Absolutely?
Um That to me is kind of a foregone conclusion
that we will get deeper and deeper into that space.
And it is such an easy application. When you think
of food and the role that food plays in our
lives and how we come together with family and friends,
(29:44):
it's like so central to what we do. And the
more that we can insert that kind of food and
entertainment content into the shopping experience, the more we will inspire,
the better will serve our customers. Um. So that it's
a absolutely we will be leaning and we already are
as a marketing group, as a digital group, and that's
(30:08):
a big part of the strategy. The other thing too
that is going to come in kind of the back
door is it in store as it becomes more digital
is going to suddenly become hot again too. So this
marriage of content, physical and digital all converging, and that
that absolutely is something that we'll be talking about over
the next year. Well, and and Christie, you know, as
(30:32):
I said, this is such a hot topic, but some
a topic that I'm so interested in, and I know
our audiences. I want to invite you back for a
second chat, but you know, sadly we have to come
to an end now, but I want to just say
thank you. You know, we've had hundreds of conversations over
the years, but you know, very few as enlightening as
(30:54):
this relative to the area. That is the good fortune
of you having skied to where the puck is, as
Gretzky once said, because I think you've found yourself in
a position now over these last few years, but particularly
now with this launch at the center of the fire.
And you know what, it's a good place for Christy
(31:15):
Argeland to be. I like I get bored of Christy.
Thank you for joining me on good Company today. I
know our audience will leave this conversation more intelligent than
they entered it. Well. Thank you, Michael. It has been
a pleasure to spend time with Eve and I appreciate
(31:35):
you invited me. I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to
Good Company. Good Company is a production of I Heart
Radio Special Thanks to Lena Peterson, Chief Brand Officer and
Managing Director, for her vision I'm Good Company, and to
Jen Seely, Vice President Marketing Communications Immediately for programming amazing
(31:56):
talent and content. Woo woo bo
Good Company is a production of I Heart Radio. There
is so much room for higher quality competition that I
think retail media is driving right into that opening. Hi,
I'm Michael Casson. Welcome to Good Company, where I'll explore
(00:20):
how marketing, media, entertainment and tech are intersecting, transforming our
lives and the way we do business at a breakneck speed.
I'll be joined by some of the greatest business minds
at strongest leaders who will share how they build companies
from the ground up or transform them from the inside out.
My bed is you'll pick up a lesson or two
along the way. It's all good. It is truly a
(00:45):
pleasure today to welcome Christie Argalin. Christy is currently the
senior vice president of Retail Media, charged with really leading
the expansion of Albertson's retail media offering. But more importantly,
Christie is a long time friend and colleague who I've
had the pleasure of working with in many different aspects
(01:06):
of her life. And I think, Christie, it's fair to say,
not to embarrass you, but you have you have the
moves and the moves I talked about between being a
buyer and a seller. You know, I've always said that
people who have worked on both sides of that equation
the move I talked about his body language. Buyers tend
(01:28):
to lean back, Sellers tend to lead in. And I
always kidded with Cheryl Sandberg when she wrote the book
Lean In, that I take precedent on that because I
always talked about it as as you know, that nuance
of how you lean in or you lean back. You've
leaned in and you've leaned back. You've been a buyer
and a seller. When we first met, you were on
the agency side, working in technology, and then when as
(01:52):
we continue to engage, you went to the brand side
and you know, work together a target and other things.
But here we are in the basics. Here we are
in the supermarket business. And uh, you know, I mean
to let you know, I'm going to shut up. But
my first proper job other than a paper route was
(02:12):
working as a bad boy in a supermarket. So I
got my beginnings in a supermarket as well. That was
my actually my family's business when I was young. I
had an experience or two. So I feel like it's
full circle for me. But but Christie, let me go
back to welcoming you and thank you for joining me, well,
(02:33):
thank you for having me, Michael. It's just a privilege
and a joy to be able to sit with you
today and have a conversation about the journey because I've
definitely seen all sides of the business, which you know,
it's been really satisfying for me and why I stay
with it. Well, and as you talk about that journey, Christie,
(02:54):
I think you find yourself now at one of the
most interesting points on the journey. And when we at
mediately give the presentations that you've listened to over the
years what we call our state of the state, one
of the areas that we focus on is an incredibly
important area in the business today is the advent and
really the growth and importance of retail media and what
(03:17):
that all means. And you know, you've been involved in
this now for a while. You're a veteran for sure,
in this new fangled thing and it's not so new
anymore called retail media. What I'd love you to really
talk about is, you know, to kick us off, is
how would you define that Retailers have been in the
media business for a very long time, but a lot
(03:39):
of the was the wall of TVs at the back
of one of the big box stores, or the signage
that was sitting at the end of a shelf on
the aisles to advertise and market a product, or the
coupons that spit out on the on your receipt at
the end of your shopping trap. Retail media networks really
(04:02):
started to pop up when retailers started to understand they
are uniquely positioned to really know customers and most adult
US customers, retailers see them more than a lot of
other other companies do. And not only do we see
them and know them, but we also understand what things
(04:25):
they prefer um, so we have insight into true actions
the groups of customers are taking. That is an incredibly
important insight into customer behaviors that a lot of other
company have. If you even look at a Google or Facebook,
they don't really know that a sale have um what
(04:48):
retailers do. And so the idea of marrying the database
that we sit on top of the audiences that we
can build, to marry that with all of the now
the digital media properties at retailer's own, and then even
more so to apply those audiences to other media platforms
that exist. It's just offering a really unique media option
(05:12):
in the marketplace, and in the marketplace it needs a
little bit more diversification at it well, and Christy, you
talked about it without actually saying it, but you're talking
about that first party data, that that that information and
and that's the goal, right. I mean, at the end
of the day, you and I know this, my friend,
and I think you know Rashot well or certainly have
(05:34):
interacted over the years. We were shot to Baccarola and
I give him credit for this all the time, and
my team tires of hearing it. But he was one
of the people who really crystallized for me when we
were working on a financial services account together. He talked
about data and likened it to oil and said data
is like oil, and it's in the ground. It's not
(05:55):
worth anything. It's when you take it out of the
ground and refine it it is worth something. And data
is the same kind of a commodity, if you will.
If the data doesn't lead to insights, then it's just
kind of what we used to say, junk in your trunk.
It doesn't really matter. You're in a position whereas a
retailer at the level and scope and size of Albertson's
(06:18):
and the experience you had a target as well. You know,
you've got enormous data, and the ability to refine that
data with the marketer and understand how that's going to
play out is critically important, right, I mean, isn't that
part of the holy Grail? I mean, that's the fundamental reason.
And the if you consider the scale, so the largest
(06:41):
retailers know at least half of the adult US population
and what their purchase behaviors are, and that scaled database,
and that to have it be that high quality, of
that high fidelity is unusual in the marketplace, and retailers
have come to understand the importance of that also the
(07:04):
importance of using their customers better and to make sure
that they are doing that within the relationship they have
with their customers, to do it within their preferences for
privacy and all of the other pieces that go along
with that. And and and Christie, let me ask a question,
because you talked about, you know, the in store marketing
(07:25):
that it always existed. You know, we would have referred
to that in the old days, I mean about a
month ago. I'm kidding, but shopper marketing, Yes, in some fashion,
and that was always a separate budget. You know consumer
package goods companies, and you know any of the players
at retail that shopper marketing was a separate budget. Is
(07:46):
that where this money is coming from? Is that where
the retail media network revenue model comes from? Effectively, from
your perspective, that's only part of it. What we consistently
see is that the shopper marketing budgets and marketing budgets
of brand marketing budgets tend to be about the same size,
(08:08):
and so there's plenty of revenue to be gathered through
shopper marketing budgets, and those budgets are going more and more,
actually they've gone digital. Um in the mix of things
that are non digital has remains steady your rear, well,
the amount of money that gets invested in digital as well.
It's the other piece though, is that as data privacy
(08:32):
puts pressure on but effectually called drifters and a lot
of that third ring lower quality data that's coming out
of the marketplace, marketers are far more aware of the
quality of the data that they had been transacting off
of it and are looking for better data sources and
better media options that tie better to real people taking
(08:58):
real actions. Um, what do we call it? Customers? Not cookies? Um,
So it's real. It's like real people doing real things. Naturally,
the results are going to be stronger, and so marketers
are understanding the importance of what retail media networks can
bring as well, and so we're seeing more marketing brand
marketing dollars move towards retail media networks. We're also seeing, though,
(09:23):
organization by organization, many are combining those budgets because of
the discipline and what you need to prove for our
oy s. The say and we've talked, you know, and
this is a word that that resonates with me more
than most because I was a featured player in it.
But there was a book written a couple of years
ago you might remember, called Frenemies, and it talked about
(09:44):
the unusual relationship that the marketplace had with people who
were both friends and enemies giving credit work credits to
He didn't make up the word, but he was the person,
Sir Martin Soil, who kind of coined it in our industry.
Relative to looking at primary early in those days, Google
and Facebook as being both the friend of the agencies
(10:05):
and the enemy of the agencies in that there was
a fear they were disintermediating the role of the agency.
And you know, when you and I met, you were
on the agency side. So you certainly understand that. My
question here is we've created a real unusual, new kind
of freenemies approach here because some of the largest marketers
in the world. Albertson's is a very large marketer as
(10:28):
a buyer of media from other sources, you know, advertising,
your product, your your retail capabilities, and now you're also
competing in a very real fashion. So you know, the
days of you just buying from you know, whether it's
NBC or ABC or you know, Paramount or you know,
(10:48):
the general publishing marketplace, you're also competing with them because
you're going after the same dollars that they are. It's
created a new dynamic. I mean, you understand it because
you've been on the media buying side and now you're
kind of really more on the media selling side. Yeah,
I mean, you kind of twisted that. My frontal lobe
(11:10):
of my brain is you're laying all of that out.
I mean absolutely, But they also benefit from us um
and so if you look at a partner like Google
or pinterest, and they want to figure out how to
grow the revenue that they get from a company like
an Albertson's. Most marketing budgets are not growing at significant
(11:33):
jumps year over year, but the media that we would
buy in service of a retail medium network in the
partners that we're building programs for will grow in the
double digits. Here are some of these publishers and so
if they can operate in a transparent and in a
true partnership, they benefit as well. Um, so there is
(11:57):
a been there for everybody. The other piece too, But Michael,
I'm the other side of that, and this is where
the enemy part of friend of Me comes from. In
a world where Amazon, Google and Facebook commands sixty five
of the digital media spend that happens in the US,
there's some room for diversidication in there. And even if
(12:20):
we I only need to capture two percent of that
in order to blow through my goal. So, um, you
know that there is so much room for higher quality
competition in the place, and I think that the data
privacy and the new practices of Google and Apple are
accelerating the need for the marketplace to really show up
(12:43):
in a better, more transparent, more accountable sort of way.
And I think retail media is driving right into that opening.
You hit on my button, and my button is the
issues that our industry is transforming on right now, we're
pivoting on and they're all the words that begin with
the letter TE. Those words are trust, transparency, technology, talent,
(13:04):
and transformation. They roll off my tongue because I've been
saying until I move face, but I haven't had a
conversation lately where it doesn't involve one of those words.
You just talked about, a transparency or accountability, trust in
the numbers, nobody grading their own homework, all the things
that we've talked about at you know, ad infinitum, you
(13:27):
knows as friends and colleagues, and particularly now, those are
critical words because with the deprecation of cookies and and
the privacy issues and all the things we've dealt with
over the last year or so, the value proposition is clear.
And you did mention you know what we used to
(13:48):
call the du appoly, But you couldn't take now in
a fair statement and say it was a duoppoly because
you have to put Amazon in that equation. Because I
think the number I read last year was that they
or this year that they at thirty one billion dollars
in advertising? That's right, yeah, and that's no longer a
side business. That's a I don't care how big, I
don't care what your revenue is. You know, there was
(14:12):
a famous quote years ago from a senator from Illinois,
Evert Dirkson, who famously said, a billion here, a billion there.
Pretty soon you're talking real money. You know, thirty one
billion dollars gets people's attention as an advertising You know,
it's interesting because retailers study Amazon so much. Retailers hustle, right,
(14:34):
and they're not completely you know, they're not in the
they're in some other business yet to be exact side hustle,
even by my standards. But you know, Christie, I think
you've said it, but I want to ask the question again,
where do you think that money is coming from your
targets create x amount of you know, billions? You want
(14:55):
to see the you know, we've certainly got Walmart and
Kroger and Walgreen's and CBS and Lows and Home Depot
and Macy's and you know everybody's got their retail media network.
Now where do you think the majority of that money
is coming from I would say, especially for the middle hotail,
(15:19):
but even for some of the top five players. If
you follow them closely, you'll see the kind of this
fast between we are just here for the endemic products
that we sell in our stores and online, and then
the next year there were a media company and then
it's back to we're here for our endemic partners. So um,
(15:39):
the bulk of the money, especially for the middle of
the montail is still coming from what you would typically
call shopper marketing it. But the real opportunity sits in
those national add dollars and how you're able to attached
and return on investment to those dollars in ways that
(16:00):
a lot of brand dollars can. And let me ask
you a more provocative question, perhaps, Christie. Not unlike search
and when search became and still is an important, you know,
tool in the toolkit for anybody trying to sell goods
or services. We had an industry that spawned called s
e O Search engine optimization in the retail media environment.
(16:24):
Do you think that the marketplace, the agency community, again
you come from that side originally, have they risen to
the occasion to understand how to navigate and optimize you know,
the brand's position and the retail media environment as much
as they should. I mean, I think, you know, selfishly,
because I do still have a rooting interest. Essential have
(16:45):
done a really good job of that. Do you think
the agencies in general understand this market well enough or
they are they still on a learning book? Yeah, I
think they're still on a learning term. But we've been
seeing some pretty big steps in that direction. And you know,
you'll recall it started with everybody creating their Amazon Specialist
team UM. Now those same teams are retail media. Yes,
(17:09):
So they're expanding the definition and they're thinking about it
more broadly, and they are dedicating the staff to understand it.
And then if you look at a publicist who bought
Citrus add that's a pretty big statement too in terms
of how they're leading into retail media. So we are
seeing these UM centers of excellence starting to emerge. There's
(17:30):
still a long way to go because what they're trying
to do is take a different kind of accountability model
and plug it into traditional ways of looking at our
o I UM and plugging it into bigger marketing mixed
modeling capabilities that are you know, kind of templated UM,
so pulling it all the way through and thinking about
(17:53):
how to incorporate those channels that can trually do close
with recording versus media metrics, I think is where the
challenge still hits. And I don't think they'll fully understand
the benefit of a retail media network until it can
get pulled all the way through to how they measure UM.
That's why I'm in retail media is the mechanics of
(18:14):
it are fascinating. The opportunity is really interesting to me.
So I've worked both sides of the industry, all signs
of the industry almost and there are gaps in the marketplace,
there are opportunities to have a better offering. Is another choice.
I'm not saying that retail media should be the only choice,
(18:34):
but it is a different and improved choice versus where
we've beend as a media marketplace. And so it's super
interesting to me to understand how the money flows, how
things are measured, all of the components that go into
being an effective media option UM and I just find
(18:54):
it fascinating to be able to get into the strategy
of it all, Like what's the advantage to a retailer
to be in this business all the way down to now,
how do I set up relationships that are based on
trust and transparency and where we both win, not one
has to win at the expense of the other um
but also the mechanics of being able to prove the effectiveness.
(19:17):
And that's where this category is still so Mason, because
we can measure the effectiveness of a campaign, but how
we get plugged into broader marketing mixed measurement I next
big frontier for us as a category to start to
crack well, because you and I both know a marketing
mixed model that doesn't have the right data inputs isn't
(19:38):
going to be worth much at the other end of it.
And to the degree you can refine what you put in,
you're going to get a better result coming out. I mean,
it's funny how that works in all aspects of our life. Christie,
let me ask another question, you know, and I said
this a lot. At the beginning of the pandemic, the
heroes in our worlds became different people. The heroes were
(20:00):
the frontline people. And you know, retail, the supermarket where
people get their food and sustenance is about as frontline
as you could be. During you know, the only place
I went, as so many people could say, the only
place I actually went for a few months, was to
the supermarket. I mean, there wasn't any place else you
(20:21):
were going if you if you could avoid it. But
we also witnessed that extraordinary moment where things that would
have taken five years took five days, and you were
you were still you know, in retail, not in a
supermarket at that point, but in in you were a
target at the beginning of the pandemic. And so uh.
(20:41):
In fact, I remember sitting with you in January when
none of us expected the world was gonna change in
you know, sixty days after I saw you in Las
Vegas in January, and you know, we all experienced it.
And here we are at the other maybe hopefully at
the other end. Although I would go to the Dorothy
(21:02):
Channel and Pavilion last night for the Alvin Ailey Dancers opening,
which was extraordinary and if I had never seen them,
and I will tell you a plug if you've never
seen them, I've seen them on television, but I've never
seen them in person. There extraordinary, But yet everyone was
still wearing a mask at the Dorothy Channel and pavilion
and here we are in April of two, so um,
(21:24):
you know we still are. We're there. You know, those
those heroes, those people, those frontline workers. You're at the forefront.
What does that feel like? I mean, you know, you're
not in the store, but you are. You're in the retails,
you're in the digital store. Yeah. Yeah. I mean a
couple of things. The store team members that show up
in the store every day and are willing to show
(21:47):
up in the stores every day to be able to
serve their customers, to feed their own families. You know,
I don't think we could appreciate them enough for the
fact that they really kept all of us fed, and
you know, the price and then made to all of
us UM is something that I think we will be
forever grateful for. The other thing that just has been
(22:10):
really fascinating to me is that this the pandemic has
taken some very general companies and taught them how to
read themselves and to bring themselves to the marketplace as
quickly as possible in completely different ways. And yet they're
still able to um show up quarterly with really great
(22:31):
earnings reports because they've been able to manage it. And
I know that sales changed and you know, customers shopped
in a very different way, and they moved so fast
and serve customer needs so well. Um, and those that
did are the ones that have really come out on
the other side a better company, a better community member,
(22:52):
a better employer. UM. What I love about Albertson's is
that it has really this leader should team that the
Beck has called together. It really knows how to operate fast.
I have never seen an executive team that can make
decisions and solve problems within an hour meeting versus you
(23:12):
months of analysis. Like they just move quick. Their instincts
are strong, and they know how to get things done
that really just their customers. So information from in store
and in digital has been really something to behold as
you as you know, Christie, I'm I'm close personal friends
with with somebody who was the majority owner of Albertson's,
(23:35):
uh you know, not so long ago. And I've had
the pleasure of visiting in Boise and and you're right, Look,
nothing is faster than retail. I learned that in the
beginning of my days in the media business, because we
did when I was running a media agency in the nineties.
We bought more supermarket media than anyone in the world.
So I understood retail at the earliest stage, and look,
(23:58):
I applied it to the entertainment and just tree back
then because we also worked for the Walt Disney Company,
and I said, moving marketing is about as retail as
it gets, except supermarket is really retail because it's it's
real time all the time. Movie marketing wasn't that dissimilar
because you were issuing a new movie every week. You're
(24:19):
issuing a new product every week, and you'd have to
you know, build that retail demand, you know, to get
butts and seats, you know, as you were opening a
movie for that first weekend right you know, it was
that magical first week then. But you know, the best
way to learn I've always felt the best way to
(24:39):
learn media and and the need for speed was working
with retail. And you know, it goes back to what
what what we talked about is, you know, you're at
the core. But on that level at the core, there's
also a place where you know, we hear it more
in the auto manufacturing business right now, but the supply
chain issues that we're dealing with as a as a
(25:02):
country right now you know, has had impact a retail
I mean, you know, a couple of months ago you
were seeing those pictures of empty shelves in the supermarkets
because you couldn't get the products there fast enough. Have
we have we gotten to a better place in that
regard a retail or? Are you seeing that we're still
pretty acute? Yeah? You know, it's still an issue all
(25:25):
of us to deal with, and how we manage inventory,
how we negotiate inventory with our partners, all those things
matter for all of us. What's interesting now is to
watch again as these container ships finally get to arrive
in port to now watch the imbalance. So now there's
too much stuff. In fact, I called a girlfriend the
other day, I'm like, I think we need to go
(25:46):
to t J Max. I'll bet we've got some good
stuff on their shelves right now. Um, So you know,
I think we're gonna see this too much, too little
kind of adjustment that we're all going to have to
manage through going forward. And you know, manning to inventory
and also making sure that pricing and promotion are meeting
customer needs right now are two areas that you know
(26:08):
you really focused on, as is the rest of the
ends well and and and you know, look, Albertson's, I
think you're the help me on ranking number two or
three largest food retailer to right. And and my friend
who used to be a significant owner of Albertson's told
(26:29):
me it was based on doors. The amount of doors
you have, you know, a lot, You've got thousands of doors,
thousands of doors. Um. But as the second largest food
retailer in the world, I guess, or certainly in the country,
the prognosis and obviously the market's been good to you
(26:50):
because you know, food didn't go out of style and
the ability to rise to the occasion. Albertson's has done it.
As you said, hats off to Vivec who came over
from Pepsi as I remember when he's Albertson's. So he
came over from the product side to the you know,
to the distribution and retail side. But but he came
(27:12):
with a with a mission because he's done such an
amazing job in really you know, pushing the company forward.
Tell me from your perspective, Christie, if we were here
a year from now, you know, what would be the
top thing on your agenda that's different today than today. Yeah,
I think, Um, you know, obviously, right now we're focused
(27:35):
on the launch we launched just a couple of weeks ago. UM.
Stabilizing the business sector the launch and driving momentum is
key for us. A year from now, I really want
to be leaning way into different ways to bring audiences
to the market, a fresh way to truly integrate the
(27:58):
measurement of what we do into some more standard marketing,
mixed modeling that goes on UM to watch the evolution
of the importance of DSPs versus SSPs, Like where in
the marketplace, how do you tap into that instead of supply?
And I'm also very curious about these publishers who don't
(28:19):
have a really strong data foundation to operate off of.
Once cookies and everything else gets pulled out of the
market and that so we have strict your privacy laws
and we have cookies going away. So it's gonna be
a fascinating week. Week. Yeah, thatthing else I week, Christie.
(28:41):
Let me ask you one final question. Most sentences today
in certainly commerce begin with the word content. You hear
it now constantly, content and commerce, content and commerce. I
hear it all the time, and I hearkened back to
twenty two years ago when I did the very very
first panel that I'd ever done in the marketing media
(29:02):
business where I was a moderate, not a moderator, but
a panelist. And the topic, believe it or not, it
was Variety Magazine and the n y U Stern School
of Business sponsoring a panel conversation and it was entitled
content and Commerce. So it's not a new affectation, It's
been around for a while. But do you see the
(29:22):
importance of content and I mean that in the content
creation and you know how we're driving commerce through content? Absolutely?
Um That to me is kind of a foregone conclusion
that we will get deeper and deeper into that space.
And it is such an easy application. When you think
of food and the role that food plays in our
lives and how we come together with family and friends,
(29:44):
it's like so central to what we do. And the
more that we can insert that kind of food and
entertainment content into the shopping experience, the more we will inspire,
the better will serve our customers. Um. So that it's
a absolutely we will be leaning and we already are
as a marketing group, as a digital group, and that's
(30:08):
a big part of the strategy. The other thing too
that is going to come in kind of the back
door is it in store as it becomes more digital
is going to suddenly become hot again too. So this
marriage of content, physical and digital all converging, and that
that absolutely is something that we'll be talking about over
the next year. Well, and and Christie, you know, as
(30:32):
I said, this is such a hot topic, but some
a topic that I'm so interested in, and I know
our audiences. I want to invite you back for a
second chat, but you know, sadly we have to come
to an end now, but I want to just say
thank you. You know, we've had hundreds of conversations over
the years, but you know, very few as enlightening as
(30:54):
this relative to the area. That is the good fortune
of you having skied to where the puck is, as
Gretzky once said, because I think you've found yourself in
a position now over these last few years, but particularly
now with this launch at the center of the fire.
And you know what, it's a good place for Christy
(31:15):
Argeland to be. I like I get bored of Christy.
Thank you for joining me on good Company today. I
know our audience will leave this conversation more intelligent than
they entered it. Well. Thank you, Michael. It has been
a pleasure to spend time with Eve and I appreciate
(31:35):
you invited me. I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to
Good Company. Good Company is a production of I Heart
Radio Special Thanks to Lena Peterson, Chief Brand Officer and
Managing Director, for her vision I'm Good Company, and to
Jen Seely, Vice President Marketing Communications Immediately for programming amazing
(31:56):
talent and content. Woo woo bo
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com