September 3, 2025 • 42 mins
Buckle up as Jordan Zimmerman reveals how “brand-tailing,” hyperlocal precision, and AI-powered innovation fueled the rise of one of the world’s largest agencies. In this episode, Jordan proves that outcomes beat accolades and leaves listeners with actionable insights on grit, growth, and reinvention.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I love the New Age media market where it is
because we have the tools to garner incredible results for
our clients. And I think there's an old way of
doing this and there's a New Age way of doing it,
and we created the New Age way of driving market conditions.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:49):
up a lessen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. I want to welcome
everyone to Good Company. Today's game has spent the last
forty years turning unyielding drive into billions in billings. I
like the ring of that billions and billings. Jordan Zimmerman,
the founder and chairman of Zimmerman Advertising, built one of
(01:11):
the largest agencies in the world from the ground up,
powered by a relentless belief that it's not about the
work you make, It's about the results you deliver. Let
that settle in. He trademarked the idea of brand tailing,
building the brand over time while driving sales overnight, and
he's still pushing the industry forward with AI tools, proprietary tech,
(01:35):
and a laser focus on what should be important to
all of us in the advertising industry, growing clients businesses
day over day. Jordan's worked with a who's who of
iconic brands and isn't afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. This
is going to be a conversation about grit transformation and
why standing still is never an option. So buckle up,
(01:58):
Jordan doesn't do half measure. Let's dive in. Welcome Jordan.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, thank you, Michael, and thank you for that amazing introduction. Michael.
I've known of your reputation since Western Media when you
and Dennis Hope built that amazing firm, but I have
never had the pleasure of truly meeting you to well
about a week ago, so it took a little bit
of time. So we have to do double time now
to make up for the lost time, because we're like
(02:23):
two kindred souls.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, I have to tell a little story then, Jordan,
because I was going to make this point in our
conversation about you've been doing this for forty years and
you and I have become VFF in forty days. So
so you know, I've always subscribed to the view that
speed kills if you don't have it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I agree one.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So, Jordan, let's let's kind of dive in. You launched
Zimmerman in nineteen eighty four. What was your original vision
and could you share with us how that's evolved. I mean,
you know, this is always an evolution. There are times
during that journey. I'm sure it felt like a revolution.
But you know, nineteen eighty four an important year in advertising. Why.
(03:05):
I think back to Apple nineteen eighty four, I think
back to Georgie Owell nineteen eighty four, I think back
to Jordan Zimmerman in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Here we are.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
You know, what do you got to say for yourself?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So nobody'd hire me? So if I wasn't needy to
hire it, and I had to go back to school
to get an MBA, I said, the first thing I
need to do is build a firm that is very
different from every other firm that's out there, So let's
talk about that. I wanted to build the business solutions
firm that was metric driven that happened to do advertising.
(03:40):
Nobody knew what I was talking about, and being that
metrics drive business decisions. Nobody thought about that in nineteen
eighty four.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
You know, it's funny, Jordan, you say business solutions as
something people didn't think about. It strikes me as of
course they did, but they didn't put it into those words.
And looking at in the service of that goal from
an agency perspective, it reminds me of in the dot
com moment, Barry Diller. I was fortunate to be interviewing him.
(04:12):
He said, I don't understand why people talk about this
new fangl idea of when is this company going to
reach monetization? He said, I don't know, but call me crazy,
but I thought the purpose of business was monetization. So
why is that like a new bar we need to hit?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know, Michael, you hit it perfectly. Where when I
came into the industry, felt like everyone in our industry
wanted to be famous. They wanted to go to Can,
they wanted to want to go Lion. It wasn't about
the clients it was about them, and I said, I
want to build to firm that client driven. So our
mission is going to be to relentlessly pursue the client's goal,
(04:54):
never rest in the glory. So that's a mission a
Zimmerman always has been, always will be. So we're more
client centric than we are personally centric. And I wanted
to drive the client's business every single day, which we
drive our business every single day. It was a wild
theory back then, but more people have come our way
now than we have gotten their way.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
When we talk about the KPIs in a relationship these days,
outcomes matter, and outcomes from the client's perspective usually comes
down to the bottom line of driving revenue. I mean,
that's what we are in the service of. And it's
so interesting because in this new phenomenon, we're going to
(05:37):
talk about retail media Jordan as a concept or as
a sector now, but more than a concept obviously. But
I noted something that was very interesting in Can a
couple of years ago. You mentioned kN it was the
first time somebody did a ranking and said somewhere around
thirty percent of the cmos that were on the Crown
in Can for the first time we're also seller because
(06:00):
their companies had retail media networks. And so you look
at I'm not picking on CVS, pick CVS. All of
a sudden, CBS went from being an advertiser with their
media exchange, they're now an advertising seller. So I heard
a comment from a CMO that said, boy, this is
different for me. I'm now in sales meetings. I said, well,
(06:23):
that's interesting. And this was a marketer from a very
big brand advertiser who's now got a retail presence from
a retail media perspective, and I said, so, I guess
the unusual thing is you're used to selling one to
many and now you're selling one to one, mono a mono.
It's a different muscle, and it's the same thing you're saying.
(06:44):
And I want to get to the local because I'm
going to surprise you with I'm going to call you
Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz because I was thinking
about how do I make that transition to what made
you famous? Initially in my mind was you're extraordinary understanding
of local marketing, and we'll get to that. But where
(07:05):
I got the Wizard of Oz conjured up? I remember,
there's no place like home. There's no place like home,
And I drew the analogy to there's no place like local.
There's no place like local. You know, to me, Jordan
Zimmermann was a king and the Duke of understanding local
in the hyper local way. So I want to give
you a riff there.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, thank you very much, because let me tell you
that my philosophy was, if you can make it in
the retail automotive business, you could take that. As Frank
Sinatra said, if you make it in New York, you
can make it anywhere. You make it a reto automotive,
you could make it anywhere, And that was truly Our
success has taken what we learned there and became great
(07:49):
local store marketers, and then parlayed and parlayed that into
every sector that we're in today. And still the reto
automotive sector is probably this art of sector we've ever
been in. And you know, I'll get to the point
when you're ready of what the technology we've built that
helps us target really incredibly well.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Jordan, I'm ready to me the technology is the story. Today.
You cracked the code and created brand tailing and cracked
the code of hyper local. You did it through grit.
You did it through understanding the market, you did it
through creativity, you know, and all of those things. But
now the ability to use lize technology. And that's where
(08:31):
I'd love to go, because that's about where we are
and where we're going, not where we came from.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It started in about twenty twelve. I woke up one
morning and probably like you, I get a record next
to me, and I also kept a path, and I
woke up and said, there's an evolution happening, and it's
going to be a revolution. It's going to be a
technology revolution. And the technology revolution started in the early eighties,
but I was talking about the digital technology revolution, and
(08:56):
I said, what happened to newspaper is going to happen
into linear television at a point, okay, and that you're
going to start see linear media turning it to digital media.
And I made some big predictions back then. So I
started to build what I've known as an architecture for
a hyper local, data driven audience targeting platform.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That's a mouthful, but no but very important words. Can
you say that again, because it's worth listening to and
hearing those words again in the right order as you
just put.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Them a hyper local, data driven audience targeting platform that
now is AI infused. So it's really really cool. It's
driven by and you know when you look at our platform,
it's driven by omni. Puts in about let's see, three
point one billion email addresses in there, puts over five
(09:47):
hundred million cell phone numbers in there, puts in there
one hundred and twenty five million households in America. It's
almost and over two hundred and fifty million adults in America,
and it gives me ten thousand attributes that I could
target those adults all the way down to the household level,
so that way it could send the right message to
the right person in that household based on what they're
(10:11):
truly looking for. So I have all this information on
my fingertips.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It's so interesting, Jordan, because many years ago, during Advertising
Week in New York, one of my previous team members
inspired me to have my Advertising Week panel that I
would lead every year focused on something that really has
stuck with me and I referred to all the time,
and the topic sentence of that panel conversation was the
(10:38):
loss of serendipity in advertising, and the premise of that
was and we used auto as the example I learned
early in my career. You certainly know this written on
your forehead in market, you know the idea of you
want to hit that consumer when they're in market for
a car. What are the indicia of that their car
(10:59):
leases up, their kid just got their license, they've moved
to a new town, whatever those things were that would
tell you, Jordan Zimmerman, I know he's in market for
a new car. That's what I want to hit him.
And data and technology allowed us to bring here today
and say we can now deliver the right message to
the right person in the right context and the right
(11:21):
device at the right moment. And that's all great, except
advertising has some bit of serendipity in it. The surprise
and delight, and the serendipity throws against the wall all
the ideas of the right person at the right time,
in the right context, of the right device with the
right whatever. Serendipity matters. So I'm going to ask you
(11:41):
a question. In the forty years of Zimmerman, is there
a campaign or campaigns that stick out to you that, boy,
these are legendary in your mind, and maybe they've worked
and delivered business solutions to the client as well, so.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
A couple Party City by Thomas Lee. And when Thomas
Lee bought it, I quit because I know that a
lot of PE firms like Thomas Lee's destroy really great brands.
But in two thousand and nine we won the brand
and Jerry Rittenberg was CEO. Great guy, stole one of
my best friends today. And retail was predicted to be
(12:20):
down nineteen percent for Halloween now year and there were
just a Halloween store. So we did some quand qual
research and what we learned was everyone thought it was
a specialty store. Because it was specialty, they thought it
a limited inventory, and because with specially thought it was expensive.
Nothing could be fathered from the truth. But nobody knew it.
So we came up line, nobody has more party for less. Okay,
(12:44):
we went, we presented, and we gave this great presentation
and he'sa on nine agent and see with the ninth
and he says, okay, I love you guys. He goes,
is it gonna work? Because he was an old guy,
he said advertisings hocus pocus. I said, Jerry, it's going
to work, and it's going to work big. We were
up nineteen percent that year for Halloween, and then we
(13:05):
made them into an everyday store under nobody has more
party for less. So instead of just being a Halloween destination,
we became a destination for Thanksgiving, a destination for New
Year's Eve, a destination for playoff football, a destination for
Valentine's Day. It goes on and on and on. When
they sold the company, the company was making four hundred
(13:28):
and twenty six million dollars a year. That's a great one.
The other one was Papa John's. We arrived at Papa John's.
John was going out of business. He had nine hundred stores.
We had to bring tagline better Ingredients, better Pizza to life.
That is the most memorable and repeatable tagline in the
pizza industry. And I always say taglines have to be
(13:51):
memorable and repeatable, and if they're not, nobody's going to
remember who you are. And what that did was that
showed the differentiation that mom wanted to feed their children
their families are better pizza. It was such a great line.
Pizza sued us Papa John's to say that you can't
prove you have a better pizza, and we won in
(14:12):
the Supreme Court in the United States and they're still
using it today and we went from nine hundred stores
to fifty three hundred stores again success.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to share. So,
speaking of the Supreme Court of the United States, Georgia Zimmermann,
I'm going to insert something that I normally would bring
(14:44):
at the end of our conversation, but you and I
talked about the Supreme Court of the United States. About
ten days ago. You shared with me which I wasn't
aware of, that you had been a Horatio Algera Award
honoree and my recollection when I went to visit Parratio
algebra weekend, as I shared with you for a very
close friend of mine, Leonard Tesler, who received, you know,
(15:05):
an induction as well. The first evening of that weekend
was at the United States Supreme Court. So, you know,
not just to flower you with a compliment, but talk
about that Horatio alge Award because it talks about you
and your beginning, and I'd like to bring that into
our conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So I was born in North New Jersey. What's really
interesting is that I come from a pretty humble beginnings
like many of us do. But more importantly than that,
I grew up in Old Bridge, New Jersey, in a
development called sarah Wood South. There's forty four hundred homes,
and I realized at a young age, I don't want
to be anything like any of these people my parents' friends,
(15:44):
with my friend's parents, because they all hated their jobs.
They didn't make enough money. They complained that, you know,
they couldn't take enough vacations, and they just didn't look
forward to doing what they would love to do every day.
For me, that's easy to do because I picked a
career that I really love and happen to be very
lucky that I'm good at it as well, and that
I think about the industry very differently.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I will interject a lesson that I was talked by
my father many years ago, which was, if you enjoy
what you do, work is not a four letter word.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I love your dad, is exactly my dad said to me.
They said, why are all these people so unhappy? He goes, Well,
they never valued school. If you're not the smartest, work
the hardest thing, you will be number two, he goes
they never found their passion in life, so they're miserable
because they never found something they're passionate about. I said,
how do you find? He goes talk to anybody and everybody.
(16:36):
Sooner or later you'll find your passion in life. Never
chase the money, chase the dream, and if the money comes,
you're double lucky. And he said, do not get married
too young. Because you get married too young, it could
throw you to a spin. So it was a great
lesson at nine years old that I learned.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Well, hopefully you don't get married at nine. But I
got married at twenty four, and.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I'm happy, and you've been really successful. You had the.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Privilege of meeting my wife, and fifty years later it
worked out for us to get married young. So we're
a beautiful cup, a plug for getting married young. But
keid goer.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So I went to school. I focused very heavily on
sports and also on school, getting a great education. My
parents moved to Florida and my junior high school, I
stayed to finish education in New Jersey because the school
system was much better, and my senior year, January moved
to Florida, and lucky for me, I went to school
(17:28):
at a marketing and advertising degree, then went back to
get the NBA. But most importantly, okay, I made some
great relationships along the way. Wayne Heisinger, who most people know,
dear friend. We bought to Florida Panthers from him, and
I did a bunch of work for him at Blockbuster.
(17:48):
He did work for him, weised management, did work from
an Auto Nation. I did a ton of work for
rent Wayne. But he became a friend, which is really interesting.
So Wayne high sing Bob Brown. If nobody knows him,
you should google him. Just a wonderful, wonderful person. And
by Jackson nominated me for Horatio Alger and I said
(18:10):
to them, guys, because they said, you know, you don't
usually get in the first year, I'm like, I've already won.
He said no, yeah, but one yeah, we just nominated.
Said no, no, the three of you nominating me, I won.
Whether I get the award or not, I won. And
lucky for me, there in twenty fifteen, I was awarded
the award in the Supreme Court by Clarence Thomas. It's
(18:31):
a big gold medallion and nothing makes me prouder than
being able to pay it forward. And paying it forward
is all the students that we come from underprivileges and
understatement backgrounds that really would never have been able to
go to college had it not been for Horatio Alger,
all the great members, which three hundred of us that
(18:52):
have been inducted, but more importantly, the way we pay
it forwards for them to live their dreams in this
great country of America and the free enterprise system that
it has.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, Jordan, I'm glad I took us sideways for a moment,
because that's a wonderful story, and you're right, it's one
of those great moments. I've experienced it twice. I'm sad
I wasn't there the year you were inducted, but I've
experienced it twice for two people that I had great
respect for. We talked about this as well, Dennis Holt,
who was my mentor and founder of Western Media and
(19:26):
sadly passed away last month, but I wrote a tribute
to him, and in that tribute you and I talked
about it. I underscored some of the lessons he taught me,
and they're more the life lessons than the business lessons.
One of them was when you said about wayde Heizenger
becoming your friend. Dennis taught me this in a service context.
(19:46):
In a service business, friends don't fire friends. Make friends
with your client, get to know your client, become friends.
That was one lesson. The second lesson which I really
learned was we didn't have email back then. As you remember,
he said to me, if you have a choice of
using your feet, your facts or your phone, use your
feet get in front of that client. But the best
(20:07):
one he gave me was, when you have a friend
who has a big job, you speak to them once
a week. When that person doesn't have that job, you
speak to them twice a week. And those are the
life lessons that we learn. And the other thing, and
now I'm bringing us back to business, Jordan, what is
so enthralling? And I don't mean to sound silly when
I say that to me about your experience. I learned
(20:29):
this when I came into the business because the Walt
Disney Company was our largest client back then at Western Media,
and we also bought all the supermarket business. You can't imagine,
we controlled the supermarket business in southern California. We had
every one of the large chains back then, Vaughn's, Ralphs,
Stater Brothers, you know, Albertson's, They were all our clients
(20:51):
back then. And when we won the Walt Disney business,
we said, what entitled us to say we were capable
of buying on behalf of the Walt Disney company. We said, well,
the movie business is about as retail as it gets.
You're issuing a new product every week with a new movie,
or in the home video side, you're issuing multiple new
products every week, so there's a new product launch. It's
(21:13):
about as retail as it gets because if the movie
doesn't open well on Friday, you got to change the
media on the fly. It's retail at its best. And
to me, that's what makes you so special at Zimmerman
because that mentality. When you're not doing the hyper local retail,
you're doing general marketing. That speed and that ability to
(21:35):
change on the fly and change as you go is critical.
And the technology now I'm kind of leading the witness,
but I'm guessing the technology allows you to do that
even faster now.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So one of the things we built, which everyone thought,
again like when I build Zerman, you're crazy. So if
they say you're crazy, you're onto something. So we built
a studio back in nineteen ninety seven and we put
audio video, CGI, all special effects under one roof. Spent
a ton of money. Okay, that was in nineteen ninety
(22:09):
seven when we built that studio.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Had you already sold to Omnicom.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
No, I didn't sell to Omnicom till ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
The reason I asked that you made that investment as
an independent out of your own business. I mean, you
know it wasn't it was you, It was your investment.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I'll tell you I spent seven million dollars to build
a studio. You know why I could do it better,
faster and more competitive pricing for my clients is I
knew that media was expensive, and if I had more
money to put into media, the client would do better.
And if I could get my work out of the
studio better and confidentially. This again, you were renting studios then,
(22:47):
and the minute somebody sees your work, they're talking to
somebody else and telling them what they see. So I
wanted to build a studio that was confidential and that
I could do our work in, and then we could
do better work for less money for the client. Was
a win win.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Let's switch to nineteen ninety nine, when you sold Omnicom
twenty five years ago and last time I checked, you
and John Renn are still good friends. So I guess
it's worked out.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's really a great story. I'm you know, out of
bad comes good, and I think you're gonna truly appreciate this.
So in nineteen ninety three, I was doing about ten
Mitsubishi stores in the country, and all ten were the
top ten, from Clearwood to Mitsubishi number one, all the
way through number ten. Scott finked that was running clear
with a Mitsubishi, says to me, Jordan, come to Vegas.
(23:34):
Mitsubishi's having a car show. Dick Reikia was running Mitsubishi
at the time. He goes, I want you to meet
Dick Reikia. I can make this up. I fly to
Vegas on my own dime check into the mirage and
outside of the ballroom there's a cocktawer going on. I'm
with Scott and all the dealers around me, because like
you said, it's all relationships. So all of a sudden,
(23:56):
the door's open and I'm looking for my credentials. I look,
it's Scott. He said, where are my credentials? I don't
have any. I said, what am I doing here? In
front of credentials. He thanks, for maybe a minute, he's
to send there. He goes, see that door there, so yeah,
he goes, I'm gonna open it in ten minutes. Just
come in. Let me identify where Dick Rake is. Now
(24:16):
you know you can't make this up. So he opened
the door. He goes, come with me. Dick Rake is
standing at a high top table reading something. He walks up.
He goes, Dick, I want you to meet Jordan Zuman.
He goes, oh, I've heard so much a value. Tell
me how you sell so many mitsubecies. So I go
through the whole rigorolo how we sell so many of
what's happening? Da da da da da da. We talked
(24:39):
for one hour. He says to me, Jordan, if I
ever put this into review, I'm gonna call you. I
love the way you look at the business. I said, well,
thank you, Dick, thinking he was just placating me. That
was April nineteen ninety three. September he calls me. He said,
I'm putting in into review. Great, I said, He goes,
(24:59):
it was really your idea. You inspired me. So the
first review is going to be New York. Okay, and
Michael Cohene is going to call you. He just wants
to know when you want to go, because it's your idea.
I said, I'll go last. I said, you could tell
Michael he goes. No, no, he goes. You want to
build a relationship with Michael before the presentation, dude, did
realize how smart you are and how success you've been
(25:21):
in the automotive sector. So anyways, go forward. We pitch
that December sixth, nineteen ninety three, we win. We'd be
Gray Advertising. Hell Holiday, every agency was there, We best
at every agency. It was me and one other guy.
I didn't travel on a pack like I traveled in today.
And the guy who was with me looked at me
(25:41):
and said, you have any idea what you're doing. I said, yes,
we're gonna win this. You just watch you run the boombox,
you run the VCR. I will do all the talking.
We're going to win this, and we win the whole
country from coast to coast. In nineteen ninety seven, to
great your retires and uhan named Pierre Gangyong comes on
(26:01):
to run it. And Pierre came to see me. I
thought we had a great meeting. Next week, I get
a letter saying we're gonna put this up for review.
We hope that you'll participate, you know, and I know
you only went about fifteen percent of the reviews you
get put into when you're the incumbent. What he was
really saying you didn't have the guts is you are
(26:22):
Dick Reikia's agency. You're not my agency. I want my
own agency. He didn't look at the relationship with the dealers.
How the dealers went from selling one hundred and thirty
six thousand cars to two hundred and fifty two thousand
cars for the years that we had it. So we
wind up pitching against deutsch We went half the country.
He wins half the country, and Pierre said, oh my god,
(26:43):
I can't afford two agencies. So he fires us on
a Friday night through a fax machine. I'm embarrassed. So
I put the letter in my pocket and I tell
my team on Sunday night, you know, we got fired.
They didn't believe me. They thought it was one of
my jokes. And I'm like, no, no, But I I said,
all day Saturday, I called all dealers groups that I
know in the country. So I called up in Washington
(27:07):
and said, you know, you know we got fired out.
I want to come pitch your business, and I said
appointments across the country and said on Monday, I'm leaving
and I won't come back to I replaced this business,
and three months later I came back with the business replace.
What happened next was Mike Sergei calls me. He was
the Nissan's regional director of the United States for the Northeast.
(27:28):
He called me zim because every time I had a
co op meeting in New York, there's a dealer up
there named Johnny Iacona. He would tell Sergibius, who is
a Mitzibcy dealer and a Nissan dealer. So they put
us in the back room of Sparks Steakhouse and we
just ripped each other all night about who's going to
gain more market share because we were gaining a lot
of share then and we were using radio. We weren't
(27:49):
using TV. We did it through radio.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You're talking to somebody who loves radio, Jordans. So I
need to give a shout out to my friends at
iHeart when you say that. Absolutely here we are on
a podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Bob Patman and the guy's great YEP radio still works
incredibly well. People don't know how to use it, but
it works really well. And Bob Pittman has done a
marvelous job with his team. But I think iHeart into
a true leader in an industry and an innovator and industry,
just like the podcast. So anyways, he calls me and said,
(28:18):
hey George. He goes, Zimmy, Zimmy, I heard you got
fired by Mitsubishi. I said, yeah, I knew you would call,
and I knew you want to break my job. He'll no, no,
he goes, I got a promotion. I guess you don't know.
Said you dead? He goes, yes, I'm the president of
Nissan North America. And before anyone wakes up and realizes
you're available, I'm hiring you. Little did I know that
(28:41):
Nissan was handled by Shaia Day for local and regional
and a guy named Monte Zeader was running the regional business.
I said, so, I what I said to Mike was, Mike,
do you have permission to do this? He goes absolutely,
I've cleared it everywhere. I'm hiring you. I'm coming to
see you tomorrow. We need to put this together. He goes,
(29:01):
we're having a terrible year. He goes, willing to lose
over seven billion dollars this year. I said, am I
taking on a brand that's going out of business. He goes,
You're going to drive us back in business, And lo
and behold, I get hired when the minute. John w
Ren found out about that, and at the time was
Randy Weisenberger as well. They all contacted me, and you know,
(29:22):
they don't want to lose the business.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
So they wanted to get to know you better.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, so and lo and behold. We put together a
deal in ninety nine with the NERD out in two
thousand and two, and I'm still with Omnicom today. We
took Nissan from five hundred and about thirty thousand vehicles
to over a million vehicles and went from losing seven
point two million billion in ninety eight to making over
two billion the first year we were there. Mister goone
(29:49):
arrived and the rest is history.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Good Company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I want to come back to some of the changes
that we're seeing in the market right now. I want
to bring us to today. You've said publicly that the
market has become convoluted in some fashion. I mean, you know,
maybe I'm putting words in your mouth. But between streaming, social,
retail media, and LAI, is there in your mind any
(30:27):
longer something that you characterize as a unified media strategy
or is hyper kind of fragmentation here to stay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Hyper fragmentation is here to stay, and it's the reason
why you have to have analysts in your firm, and
you have to drive your client's KPIs into dashboards. And
once those KPIs are driven a dashboard, like with Planet.
You know a Planet has eighty percent of their joints
come online, So if we could see where they're coming from,
(30:57):
what media challels are coming, if we can optimize it
those channels every single day, we could also optimize that
a messaging we're using in those channels and messaging we're
using in other channels that seems to be performing better.
I love the New Age media market where it is
because we have the tools to drive through that and
garner incredible results for our clients. And I think there's
(31:20):
an old way of doing this and there's a New
Age way of doing it, and we've created the new
Age way of driving market conditions. So I'm fortunate because
I saw this coming in myself and my team, like you,
had the vision to say, the world is changing, Are
we going to fight it? Are we going to change
with it? And the head of it?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You and I spoke about a week ago, and you
know you've talked about this on this podcast as well.
You talk about transformation and innovation and how you've experienced
that in previous eras during Zimmerman's history, and here we
are at a speed of change and transformation that's daunting
(32:01):
to anybody. Is there anything that you're resisting changing? Whilst
this might be a new way of doing it, I'm
pretty good with the way I'm doing it and I
don't want to change it. Is there anything you know?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
For me?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I learned by writing. So if I was studying for
something and reading a book in law school or whatever,
I write in the margin of the book what it said,
because if I write it, I remember it. So if
there was technology that changed that, I probably wouldn't adapt
to that technology because it would undermine at least what
(32:36):
I know helps me retain information.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
What I tell my team was I'm not diving into that.
We're going to test and learn, test and learn, test
and learn. I don't fight the new technology that's there
like AI. When you come to visit and you see
the hyper local, you're going to see how AI infused
and it's going to blow your mind how far ahead
we are with that. But we built an AI team
(33:02):
starting ten years ago, seeing that we saw that AI
was coming and we wanted to be ahead of where
it was. And these kids are so smart today, and
you see the money that Meta is offering them trying
to get back caught up in AI because he is
behind compared to Perplexity and everyone else that's out there
(33:23):
in this sector today.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
As you reflect on your journey, obviously hearing you tell
the story for Ratio Alga and knowing how active you
are in the community, is there a personal north star
for you right now? I mean you've achieved, you know,
not just again blowing smoke. You've achieved so much, both
in your personal endeavors and in your business endeavors. Is
there a personal north star for you right now?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What I want to be able to do is leave
a mark, not only for the paying it forward. Like
when I built my AD school, somebody asked me a
question the universe that graduated from and doctor Judy Genschef
was the press and we had experimented with the program
for ten years, and I said, the only way I'm
going to build this ad school here besides what I'm
(34:08):
funding today, is to be able to one hundred percent
prove that the new curriculum is getting our students hired
faster and at higher salaries than anywhere else. Ten years
into the program, we went from twelve percent of our
students work in the advertising to eighty two percent of
our students getting job in advertising. So I made a
(34:29):
big donation to the school. Reporter asked me the day
that we announced it, said, why would you give so
much money to the school. Why wouldn't you use it
for your family for something else? And I thought that
was one of the dumbest questions ever heard, and I
said to her, I take offense to the question. Part
of the responsibility of becoming successful is helping other people
(34:52):
become successful too. Isn't that what our country is built on.
Isn't that the free enterprise system?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, So, I want to tell you a quick story
before I get into my lightning round. Years ago, a
guy in the community came to me and was interested
in joining the country club that we're a member of,
and the criteria for the country club that I'm a
member of. Of course, you know, you be a respectable
member of the community and all of that, but it's
a criteria that they look at your charitable giving. It's
(35:22):
well known and it's not tithing. But they want people
in the you know, membership ranks that are people who
don't have to be wildly philanthropic, but people who give back.
And this guy came to me and said, Michael, I
really want to join the club. What do you think
I need to do? And you know, what's this deal
about the charitable side? And I said, well, look, there's
(35:44):
no rules, it's not written anywhere, but you know, they
look at that as one of the most important criteria
membership in the club. He said, well, how much do
I have to give to charity? I said, well, that's
not the right question to ask me because I don't know.
First of all, it's not a number, but it's relatively
I guess there must be some view of a percentage.
If you're making this amount of money, you should be
(36:05):
at least, you know, philanthropic with a certain portion. And
I said, look, in your case, I have a sense
of where your economics are because this is a guy
who couldn't help himself. He would constantly tell you where
his economics were. So I said, only from what you've
said to me, I have a sense. And I said,
you know, my bet is if there was some calculation,
it would be a number around this much. And he
(36:27):
stops me and he says, oh my god. He says,
do you know what kind of return I could invest
that money and get? And I stopped him and I said, well, then,
actually you're not ready to become a member of this
particular club. And he said why not? I said, because
you see, our view is the return on the giving
back is the fact you've given back. That's the return.
(36:50):
I'm not looking at. Did I make six percent on
my money? I'm looking at I made one hundred percent
on my money. I felt good and I helped the community.
So it's just funny when you say.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Oh, Michael, I got to tell you my grandfather told
me a long time ago. He said, whatever you give,
you're going to get back ten times. That's not why
you give, but that's the mist for you going to receive.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
That is true. So Jordan Zimmermann, here we go. I'm
gonna take it. Let's say it, Michael, one small habit
in your daily routine that brings you unexpected joy working out,
and I could tell by those guns you got there
that you're doing it. If you hit twenty four hours
with no restrictions. What's one adventure you'd embark.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
On traveling as much as I could to see the
rest of the world that I haven't seen yet. I
like that one.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
When was the last time you saw a person or
a company in the industry do something so clever you thought, damn,
I wish i'd thought of that.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Oh my gosh. Probably, Oh my god. There's so many
great examps of them, Michael. Let me go back. I
would say that Crispin and Porter in their heyday did
some amazing things that I wish I had done.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Burger King comes to my mind.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, exactly. You know, they had the chicken, which I
thought was really amazing. I just thought, you know, Alex
was on his game then, and I like Alex a lot, so,
you know, and I thought that he did. I thought
they did really good job.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Seorgan. If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what
job would you be chasing.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I'd probably be an investment banking and I'm gonna tell
you why I really love the acquisition of companies since
I've been an omnikon. I bought three companies and folded
them into zerment for different reasons. And the sunichis that
come with it.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I got one more for you. Who was your mentor
early in your career and what's the best piece of
advice that they ever gave you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I love you. Asked that question when I was on
my paper out in New Jersey. I delivered at the
Nork Star Ledger and that's where I met my mentor
who inspired me to go into marketing and advertising. His
name was mister Dazzo. I knew his daughter. She was
a year younger than me. And mister Dazzle and our
community used to come to every football game. It was
(39:06):
like a big deal where we live. Everybody would go
to the game and there could be three to five
thousand people of the game. And I was collecting one
day and I walked in the door and Joe and says,
my dad said the piano awesome, And so I thought
he was playing the piano. What he was doing was
he was writing a jingle. So I asked him, mister Dazzle,
what are you doing. He goes, I'm writing a jingle.
(39:26):
I said, what's that? He goes to the musical composition
for radio and television, And I want to be able
to sell more seats on this airline than every other airline,
so I have to have something that's memorable and that
people huming their head. So I'm putting this jingle and
he starts playing and singing the jingle. I'm like, that's
the first guy I've ever met that loved what he did. So,
(39:47):
mister Dazzl, when I became instant friends, I used to
go over and hang out with him and learn about
the advertising and marketing business, and lo and Behaldy inspired
me so much that I actually went into the business.
Happening pretty good at So I want to give you
a story. I'm coming into ninth grade. My mother had
bright red hair and she was tough as nails. She
says to my brothers and sisters. When you're done with dinner,
(40:09):
please excuse yourself. We're going to talk to Jordan. She goes, So, son,
you're going into ninth grade. You know school is really
going to get tough, now, said, it's been tough already.
You know you told me I have to have straight a's,
and I have to have great grades and want to
get into a great college. She goes, now, it counts.
I said, what about all the other grades? It counts now.
(40:29):
But I want to know today, when you graduate high school,
what do you want to go to college to do?
What you want to major in? Ah? Mom, I know that.
I go, I want to go into marketing and advertising.
Put that poison in your mind. She goes, You're so smart,
you should be a doctor or a lawyer. I'm like,
(40:51):
that is not happening. That is not happening. So I
had to tell you that story.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, you know that reminds me. Will end on a joke,
the story of the the mother who's standing at the
at the inauguration and her son is being sworn in
as the president, and her friend is standing next to her.
She's saydie, you should be so proud your son is
the president of the United States. Is Ah, but my
other son is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Exactly exactly Jordan Zimmerman.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I want to bring the number forty back into this. Okay,
forty years of Zimmerman, forty days of you and I
being bff now, and forty minutes of just a pleasant,
wonderful journey through the life and times of Jordan Zimmerman
and the Zimmerman Agency. So, Jordan Zimmerman, I want to
thank you for joining Good Company. It was a blast
(41:41):
for me. I'm certain our listeners will agree.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Thank you, Michael, and thank you for coming into my life.
It's really having you in my life and a friend
is very meaningful to me. And you know, I don't
know what life would be not having you as my friend.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Now, there you go, take care of my friend.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Take care buddy.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced
and edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll
see you next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I love the New Age media market where it is
because we have the tools to garner incredible results for
our clients. And I think there's an old way of
doing this and there's a New Age way of doing it,
and we created the New Age way of driving market conditions.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:49):
up a lessen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. I want to welcome
everyone to Good Company. Today's game has spent the last
forty years turning unyielding drive into billions in billings. I
like the ring of that billions and billings. Jordan Zimmerman,
the founder and chairman of Zimmerman Advertising, built one of
(01:11):
the largest agencies in the world from the ground up,
powered by a relentless belief that it's not about the
work you make, It's about the results you deliver. Let
that settle in. He trademarked the idea of brand tailing,
building the brand over time while driving sales overnight, and
he's still pushing the industry forward with AI tools, proprietary tech,
(01:35):
and a laser focus on what should be important to
all of us in the advertising industry, growing clients businesses
day over day. Jordan's worked with a who's who of
iconic brands and isn't afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. This
is going to be a conversation about grit transformation and
why standing still is never an option. So buckle up,
(01:58):
Jordan doesn't do half measure. Let's dive in. Welcome Jordan.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, thank you, Michael, and thank you for that amazing introduction. Michael.
I've known of your reputation since Western Media when you
and Dennis Hope built that amazing firm, but I have
never had the pleasure of truly meeting you to well
about a week ago, so it took a little bit
of time. So we have to do double time now
to make up for the lost time, because we're like
(02:23):
two kindred souls.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Well, I have to tell a little story then, Jordan,
because I was going to make this point in our
conversation about you've been doing this for forty years and
you and I have become VFF in forty days. So
so you know, I've always subscribed to the view that
speed kills if you don't have it.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I agree one.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
So, Jordan, let's let's kind of dive in. You launched
Zimmerman in nineteen eighty four. What was your original vision
and could you share with us how that's evolved. I mean,
you know, this is always an evolution. There are times
during that journey. I'm sure it felt like a revolution.
But you know, nineteen eighty four an important year in advertising. Why.
(03:05):
I think back to Apple nineteen eighty four, I think
back to Georgie Owell nineteen eighty four, I think back
to Jordan Zimmerman in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Here we are.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
You know, what do you got to say for yourself?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
So nobody'd hire me? So if I wasn't needy to
hire it, and I had to go back to school
to get an MBA, I said, the first thing I
need to do is build a firm that is very
different from every other firm that's out there, So let's
talk about that. I wanted to build the business solutions
firm that was metric driven that happened to do advertising.
(03:40):
Nobody knew what I was talking about, and being that
metrics drive business decisions. Nobody thought about that in nineteen
eighty four.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
You know, it's funny, Jordan, you say business solutions as
something people didn't think about. It strikes me as of
course they did, but they didn't put it into those words.
And looking at in the service of that goal from
an agency perspective, it reminds me of in the dot
com moment, Barry Diller. I was fortunate to be interviewing him.
(04:12):
He said, I don't understand why people talk about this
new fangl idea of when is this company going to
reach monetization? He said, I don't know, but call me crazy,
but I thought the purpose of business was monetization. So
why is that like a new bar we need to hit?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know, Michael, you hit it perfectly. Where when I
came into the industry, felt like everyone in our industry
wanted to be famous. They wanted to go to Can,
they wanted to want to go Lion. It wasn't about
the clients it was about them, and I said, I
want to build to firm that client driven. So our
mission is going to be to relentlessly pursue the client's goal,
(04:54):
never rest in the glory. So that's a mission a
Zimmerman always has been, always will be. So we're more
client centric than we are personally centric. And I wanted
to drive the client's business every single day, which we
drive our business every single day. It was a wild
theory back then, but more people have come our way
now than we have gotten their way.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
When we talk about the KPIs in a relationship these days,
outcomes matter, and outcomes from the client's perspective usually comes
down to the bottom line of driving revenue. I mean,
that's what we are in the service of. And it's
so interesting because in this new phenomenon, we're going to
(05:37):
talk about retail media Jordan as a concept or as
a sector now, but more than a concept obviously. But
I noted something that was very interesting in Can a
couple of years ago. You mentioned kN it was the
first time somebody did a ranking and said somewhere around
thirty percent of the cmos that were on the Crown
in Can for the first time we're also seller because
(06:00):
their companies had retail media networks. And so you look
at I'm not picking on CVS, pick CVS. All of
a sudden, CBS went from being an advertiser with their
media exchange, they're now an advertising seller. So I heard
a comment from a CMO that said, boy, this is
different for me. I'm now in sales meetings. I said, well,
(06:23):
that's interesting. And this was a marketer from a very
big brand advertiser who's now got a retail presence from
a retail media perspective, and I said, so, I guess
the unusual thing is you're used to selling one to
many and now you're selling one to one, mono a mono.
It's a different muscle, and it's the same thing you're saying.
(06:44):
And I want to get to the local because I'm
going to surprise you with I'm going to call you
Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz because I was thinking
about how do I make that transition to what made
you famous? Initially in my mind was you're extraordinary understanding
of local marketing, and we'll get to that. But where
(07:05):
I got the Wizard of Oz conjured up? I remember,
there's no place like home. There's no place like home,
And I drew the analogy to there's no place like local.
There's no place like local. You know, to me, Jordan
Zimmermann was a king and the Duke of understanding local
in the hyper local way. So I want to give
you a riff there.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, thank you very much, because let me tell you
that my philosophy was, if you can make it in
the retail automotive business, you could take that. As Frank
Sinatra said, if you make it in New York, you
can make it anywhere. You make it a reto automotive,
you could make it anywhere, And that was truly Our
success has taken what we learned there and became great
(07:49):
local store marketers, and then parlayed and parlayed that into
every sector that we're in today. And still the reto
automotive sector is probably this art of sector we've ever
been in. And you know, I'll get to the point
when you're ready of what the technology we've built that
helps us target really incredibly well.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Jordan, I'm ready to me the technology is the story. Today.
You cracked the code and created brand tailing and cracked
the code of hyper local. You did it through grit.
You did it through understanding the market, you did it
through creativity, you know, and all of those things. But
now the ability to use lize technology. And that's where
(08:31):
I'd love to go, because that's about where we are
and where we're going, not where we came from.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
It started in about twenty twelve. I woke up one
morning and probably like you, I get a record next
to me, and I also kept a path, and I
woke up and said, there's an evolution happening, and it's
going to be a revolution. It's going to be a
technology revolution. And the technology revolution started in the early eighties,
but I was talking about the digital technology revolution, and
(08:56):
I said, what happened to newspaper is going to happen
into linear television at a point, okay, and that you're
going to start see linear media turning it to digital media.
And I made some big predictions back then. So I
started to build what I've known as an architecture for
a hyper local, data driven audience targeting platform.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
That's a mouthful, but no but very important words. Can
you say that again, because it's worth listening to and
hearing those words again in the right order as you
just put.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Them a hyper local, data driven audience targeting platform that
now is AI infused. So it's really really cool. It's
driven by and you know when you look at our platform,
it's driven by omni. Puts in about let's see, three
point one billion email addresses in there, puts over five
(09:47):
hundred million cell phone numbers in there, puts in there
one hundred and twenty five million households in America. It's
almost and over two hundred and fifty million adults in America,
and it gives me ten thousand attributes that I could
target those adults all the way down to the household level,
so that way it could send the right message to
the right person in that household based on what they're
(10:11):
truly looking for. So I have all this information on
my fingertips.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
It's so interesting, Jordan, because many years ago, during Advertising
Week in New York, one of my previous team members
inspired me to have my Advertising Week panel that I
would lead every year focused on something that really has
stuck with me and I referred to all the time,
and the topic sentence of that panel conversation was the
(10:38):
loss of serendipity in advertising, and the premise of that
was and we used auto as the example I learned
early in my career. You certainly know this written on
your forehead in market, you know the idea of you
want to hit that consumer when they're in market for
a car. What are the indicia of that their car
(10:59):
leases up, their kid just got their license, they've moved
to a new town, whatever those things were that would
tell you, Jordan Zimmerman, I know he's in market for
a new car. That's what I want to hit him.
And data and technology allowed us to bring here today
and say we can now deliver the right message to
the right person in the right context and the right
(11:21):
device at the right moment. And that's all great, except
advertising has some bit of serendipity in it. The surprise
and delight, and the serendipity throws against the wall all
the ideas of the right person at the right time,
in the right context, of the right device with the
right whatever. Serendipity matters. So I'm going to ask you
(11:41):
a question. In the forty years of Zimmerman, is there
a campaign or campaigns that stick out to you that, boy,
these are legendary in your mind, and maybe they've worked
and delivered business solutions to the client as well, so.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
A couple Party City by Thomas Lee. And when Thomas
Lee bought it, I quit because I know that a
lot of PE firms like Thomas Lee's destroy really great brands.
But in two thousand and nine we won the brand
and Jerry Rittenberg was CEO. Great guy, stole one of
my best friends today. And retail was predicted to be
(12:20):
down nineteen percent for Halloween now year and there were
just a Halloween store. So we did some quand qual
research and what we learned was everyone thought it was
a specialty store. Because it was specialty, they thought it
a limited inventory, and because with specially thought it was expensive.
Nothing could be fathered from the truth. But nobody knew it.
So we came up line, nobody has more party for less. Okay,
(12:44):
we went, we presented, and we gave this great presentation
and he'sa on nine agent and see with the ninth
and he says, okay, I love you guys. He goes,
is it gonna work? Because he was an old guy,
he said advertisings hocus pocus. I said, Jerry, it's going
to work, and it's going to work big. We were
up nineteen percent that year for Halloween, and then we
(13:05):
made them into an everyday store under nobody has more
party for less. So instead of just being a Halloween destination,
we became a destination for Thanksgiving, a destination for New
Year's Eve, a destination for playoff football, a destination for
Valentine's Day. It goes on and on and on. When
they sold the company, the company was making four hundred
(13:28):
and twenty six million dollars a year. That's a great one.
The other one was Papa John's. We arrived at Papa John's.
John was going out of business. He had nine hundred stores.
We had to bring tagline better Ingredients, better Pizza to life.
That is the most memorable and repeatable tagline in the
pizza industry. And I always say taglines have to be
(13:51):
memorable and repeatable, and if they're not, nobody's going to
remember who you are. And what that did was that
showed the differentiation that mom wanted to feed their children
their families are better pizza. It was such a great line.
Pizza sued us Papa John's to say that you can't
prove you have a better pizza, and we won in
(14:12):
the Supreme Court in the United States and they're still
using it today and we went from nine hundred stores
to fifty three hundred stores again success.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to share. So,
speaking of the Supreme Court of the United States, Georgia Zimmermann,
I'm going to insert something that I normally would bring
(14:44):
at the end of our conversation, but you and I
talked about the Supreme Court of the United States. About
ten days ago. You shared with me which I wasn't
aware of, that you had been a Horatio Algera Award
honoree and my recollection when I went to visit Parratio
algebra weekend, as I shared with you for a very
close friend of mine, Leonard Tesler, who received, you know,
(15:05):
an induction as well. The first evening of that weekend
was at the United States Supreme Court. So, you know,
not just to flower you with a compliment, but talk
about that Horatio alge Award because it talks about you
and your beginning, and I'd like to bring that into
our conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
So I was born in North New Jersey. What's really
interesting is that I come from a pretty humble beginnings
like many of us do. But more importantly than that,
I grew up in Old Bridge, New Jersey, in a
development called sarah Wood South. There's forty four hundred homes,
and I realized at a young age, I don't want
to be anything like any of these people my parents' friends,
(15:44):
with my friend's parents, because they all hated their jobs.
They didn't make enough money. They complained that, you know,
they couldn't take enough vacations, and they just didn't look
forward to doing what they would love to do every day.
For me, that's easy to do because I picked a
career that I really love and happen to be very
lucky that I'm good at it as well, and that
I think about the industry very differently.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I will interject a lesson that I was talked by
my father many years ago, which was, if you enjoy
what you do, work is not a four letter word.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I love your dad, is exactly my dad said to me.
They said, why are all these people so unhappy? He goes, Well,
they never valued school. If you're not the smartest, work
the hardest thing, you will be number two, he goes
they never found their passion in life, so they're miserable
because they never found something they're passionate about. I said,
how do you find? He goes talk to anybody and everybody.
(16:36):
Sooner or later you'll find your passion in life. Never
chase the money, chase the dream, and if the money comes,
you're double lucky. And he said, do not get married
too young. Because you get married too young, it could
throw you to a spin. So it was a great
lesson at nine years old that I learned.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Well, hopefully you don't get married at nine. But I
got married at twenty four, and.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I'm happy, and you've been really successful. You had the.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Privilege of meeting my wife, and fifty years later it
worked out for us to get married young. So we're
a beautiful cup, a plug for getting married young. But
keid goer.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
So I went to school. I focused very heavily on
sports and also on school, getting a great education. My
parents moved to Florida and my junior high school, I
stayed to finish education in New Jersey because the school
system was much better, and my senior year, January moved
to Florida, and lucky for me, I went to school
(17:28):
at a marketing and advertising degree, then went back to
get the NBA. But most importantly, okay, I made some
great relationships along the way. Wayne Heisinger, who most people know,
dear friend. We bought to Florida Panthers from him, and
I did a bunch of work for him at Blockbuster.
(17:48):
He did work for him, weised management, did work from
an Auto Nation. I did a ton of work for
rent Wayne. But he became a friend, which is really interesting.
So Wayne high sing Bob Brown. If nobody knows him,
you should google him. Just a wonderful, wonderful person. And
by Jackson nominated me for Horatio Alger and I said
(18:10):
to them, guys, because they said, you know, you don't
usually get in the first year, I'm like, I've already won.
He said no, yeah, but one yeah, we just nominated.
Said no, no, the three of you nominating me, I won.
Whether I get the award or not, I won. And
lucky for me, there in twenty fifteen, I was awarded
the award in the Supreme Court by Clarence Thomas. It's
(18:31):
a big gold medallion and nothing makes me prouder than
being able to pay it forward. And paying it forward
is all the students that we come from underprivileges and
understatement backgrounds that really would never have been able to
go to college had it not been for Horatio Alger,
all the great members, which three hundred of us that
(18:52):
have been inducted, but more importantly, the way we pay
it forwards for them to live their dreams in this
great country of America and the free enterprise system that
it has.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Well, Jordan, I'm glad I took us sideways for a moment,
because that's a wonderful story, and you're right, it's one
of those great moments. I've experienced it twice. I'm sad
I wasn't there the year you were inducted, but I've
experienced it twice for two people that I had great
respect for. We talked about this as well, Dennis Holt,
who was my mentor and founder of Western Media and
(19:26):
sadly passed away last month, but I wrote a tribute
to him, and in that tribute you and I talked
about it. I underscored some of the lessons he taught me,
and they're more the life lessons than the business lessons.
One of them was when you said about wayde Heizenger
becoming your friend. Dennis taught me this in a service context.
(19:46):
In a service business, friends don't fire friends. Make friends
with your client, get to know your client, become friends.
That was one lesson. The second lesson which I really
learned was we didn't have email back then. As you remember,
he said to me, if you have a choice of
using your feet, your facts or your phone, use your
feet get in front of that client. But the best
(20:07):
one he gave me was, when you have a friend
who has a big job, you speak to them once
a week. When that person doesn't have that job, you
speak to them twice a week. And those are the
life lessons that we learn. And the other thing, and
now I'm bringing us back to business, Jordan, what is
so enthralling? And I don't mean to sound silly when
I say that to me about your experience. I learned
(20:29):
this when I came into the business because the Walt
Disney Company was our largest client back then at Western Media,
and we also bought all the supermarket business. You can't imagine,
we controlled the supermarket business in southern California. We had
every one of the large chains back then, Vaughn's, Ralphs,
Stater Brothers, you know, Albertson's, They were all our clients
(20:51):
back then. And when we won the Walt Disney business,
we said, what entitled us to say we were capable
of buying on behalf of the Walt Disney company. We said, well,
the movie business is about as retail as it gets.
You're issuing a new product every week with a new movie,
or in the home video side, you're issuing multiple new
products every week, so there's a new product launch. It's
(21:13):
about as retail as it gets because if the movie
doesn't open well on Friday, you got to change the
media on the fly. It's retail at its best. And
to me, that's what makes you so special at Zimmerman
because that mentality. When you're not doing the hyper local retail,
you're doing general marketing. That speed and that ability to
(21:35):
change on the fly and change as you go is critical.
And the technology now I'm kind of leading the witness,
but I'm guessing the technology allows you to do that
even faster now.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
So one of the things we built, which everyone thought,
again like when I build Zerman, you're crazy. So if
they say you're crazy, you're onto something. So we built
a studio back in nineteen ninety seven and we put
audio video, CGI, all special effects under one roof. Spent
a ton of money. Okay, that was in nineteen ninety
(22:09):
seven when we built that studio.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Had you already sold to Omnicom.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
No, I didn't sell to Omnicom till ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
The reason I asked that you made that investment as
an independent out of your own business. I mean, you
know it wasn't it was you, It was your investment.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I'll tell you I spent seven million dollars to build
a studio. You know why I could do it better,
faster and more competitive pricing for my clients is I
knew that media was expensive, and if I had more
money to put into media, the client would do better.
And if I could get my work out of the
studio better and confidentially. This again, you were renting studios then,
(22:47):
and the minute somebody sees your work, they're talking to
somebody else and telling them what they see. So I
wanted to build a studio that was confidential and that
I could do our work in, and then we could
do better work for less money for the client. Was
a win win.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Let's switch to nineteen ninety nine, when you sold Omnicom
twenty five years ago and last time I checked, you
and John Renn are still good friends. So I guess
it's worked out.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
It's really a great story. I'm you know, out of
bad comes good, and I think you're gonna truly appreciate this.
So in nineteen ninety three, I was doing about ten
Mitsubishi stores in the country, and all ten were the
top ten, from Clearwood to Mitsubishi number one, all the
way through number ten. Scott finked that was running clear
with a Mitsubishi, says to me, Jordan, come to Vegas.
(23:34):
Mitsubishi's having a car show. Dick Reikia was running Mitsubishi
at the time. He goes, I want you to meet
Dick Reikia. I can make this up. I fly to
Vegas on my own dime check into the mirage and
outside of the ballroom there's a cocktawer going on. I'm
with Scott and all the dealers around me, because like
you said, it's all relationships. So all of a sudden,
(23:56):
the door's open and I'm looking for my credentials. I look,
it's Scott. He said, where are my credentials? I don't
have any. I said, what am I doing here? In
front of credentials. He thanks, for maybe a minute, he's
to send there. He goes, see that door there, so yeah,
he goes, I'm gonna open it in ten minutes. Just
come in. Let me identify where Dick Rake is. Now
(24:16):
you know you can't make this up. So he opened
the door. He goes, come with me. Dick Rake is
standing at a high top table reading something. He walks up.
He goes, Dick, I want you to meet Jordan Zuman.
He goes, oh, I've heard so much a value. Tell
me how you sell so many mitsubecies. So I go
through the whole rigorolo how we sell so many of
what's happening? Da da da da da da. We talked
(24:39):
for one hour. He says to me, Jordan, if I
ever put this into review, I'm gonna call you. I
love the way you look at the business. I said, well,
thank you, Dick, thinking he was just placating me. That
was April nineteen ninety three. September he calls me. He said,
I'm putting in into review. Great, I said, He goes,
(24:59):
it was really your idea. You inspired me. So the
first review is going to be New York. Okay, and
Michael Cohene is going to call you. He just wants
to know when you want to go, because it's your idea.
I said, I'll go last. I said, you could tell
Michael he goes. No, no, he goes. You want to
build a relationship with Michael before the presentation, dude, did
realize how smart you are and how success you've been
(25:21):
in the automotive sector. So anyways, go forward. We pitch
that December sixth, nineteen ninety three, we win. We'd be
Gray Advertising. Hell Holiday, every agency was there, We best
at every agency. It was me and one other guy.
I didn't travel on a pack like I traveled in today.
And the guy who was with me looked at me
(25:41):
and said, you have any idea what you're doing. I said, yes,
we're gonna win this. You just watch you run the boombox,
you run the VCR. I will do all the talking.
We're going to win this, and we win the whole
country from coast to coast. In nineteen ninety seven, to
great your retires and uhan named Pierre Gangyong comes on
(26:01):
to run it. And Pierre came to see me. I
thought we had a great meeting. Next week, I get
a letter saying we're gonna put this up for review.
We hope that you'll participate, you know, and I know
you only went about fifteen percent of the reviews you
get put into when you're the incumbent. What he was
really saying you didn't have the guts is you are
(26:22):
Dick Reikia's agency. You're not my agency. I want my
own agency. He didn't look at the relationship with the dealers.
How the dealers went from selling one hundred and thirty
six thousand cars to two hundred and fifty two thousand
cars for the years that we had it. So we
wind up pitching against deutsch We went half the country.
He wins half the country, and Pierre said, oh my god,
(26:43):
I can't afford two agencies. So he fires us on
a Friday night through a fax machine. I'm embarrassed. So
I put the letter in my pocket and I tell
my team on Sunday night, you know, we got fired.
They didn't believe me. They thought it was one of
my jokes. And I'm like, no, no, But I I said,
all day Saturday, I called all dealers groups that I
know in the country. So I called up in Washington
(27:07):
and said, you know, you know we got fired out.
I want to come pitch your business, and I said
appointments across the country and said on Monday, I'm leaving
and I won't come back to I replaced this business,
and three months later I came back with the business replace.
What happened next was Mike Sergei calls me. He was
the Nissan's regional director of the United States for the Northeast.
(27:28):
He called me zim because every time I had a
co op meeting in New York, there's a dealer up
there named Johnny Iacona. He would tell Sergibius, who is
a Mitzibcy dealer and a Nissan dealer. So they put
us in the back room of Sparks Steakhouse and we
just ripped each other all night about who's going to
gain more market share because we were gaining a lot
of share then and we were using radio. We weren't
(27:49):
using TV. We did it through radio.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You're talking to somebody who loves radio, Jordans. So I
need to give a shout out to my friends at
iHeart when you say that. Absolutely here we are on
a podcast.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Bob Patman and the guy's great YEP radio still works
incredibly well. People don't know how to use it, but
it works really well. And Bob Pittman has done a
marvelous job with his team. But I think iHeart into
a true leader in an industry and an innovator and industry,
just like the podcast. So anyways, he calls me and said,
(28:18):
hey George. He goes, Zimmy, Zimmy, I heard you got
fired by Mitsubishi. I said, yeah, I knew you would call,
and I knew you want to break my job. He'll no, no,
he goes, I got a promotion. I guess you don't know.
Said you dead? He goes, yes, I'm the president of
Nissan North America. And before anyone wakes up and realizes
you're available, I'm hiring you. Little did I know that
(28:41):
Nissan was handled by Shaia Day for local and regional
and a guy named Monte Zeader was running the regional business.
I said, so, I what I said to Mike was, Mike,
do you have permission to do this? He goes absolutely,
I've cleared it everywhere. I'm hiring you. I'm coming to
see you tomorrow. We need to put this together. He goes,
(29:01):
we're having a terrible year. He goes, willing to lose
over seven billion dollars this year. I said, am I
taking on a brand that's going out of business. He goes,
You're going to drive us back in business, And lo
and behold, I get hired when the minute. John w
Ren found out about that, and at the time was
Randy Weisenberger as well. They all contacted me, and you know,
(29:22):
they don't want to lose the business.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
So they wanted to get to know you better.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, so and lo and behold. We put together a
deal in ninety nine with the NERD out in two
thousand and two, and I'm still with Omnicom today. We
took Nissan from five hundred and about thirty thousand vehicles
to over a million vehicles and went from losing seven
point two million billion in ninety eight to making over
two billion the first year we were there. Mister goone
(29:49):
arrived and the rest is history.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Good Company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
I want to come back to some of the changes
that we're seeing in the market right now. I want
to bring us to today. You've said publicly that the
market has become convoluted in some fashion. I mean, you know,
maybe I'm putting words in your mouth. But between streaming, social,
retail media, and LAI, is there in your mind any
(30:27):
longer something that you characterize as a unified media strategy
or is hyper kind of fragmentation here to stay.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Hyper fragmentation is here to stay, and it's the reason
why you have to have analysts in your firm, and
you have to drive your client's KPIs into dashboards. And
once those KPIs are driven a dashboard, like with Planet.
You know a Planet has eighty percent of their joints
come online, So if we could see where they're coming from,
(30:57):
what media challels are coming, if we can optimize it
those channels every single day, we could also optimize that
a messaging we're using in those channels and messaging we're
using in other channels that seems to be performing better.
I love the New Age media market where it is
because we have the tools to drive through that and
garner incredible results for our clients. And I think there's
(31:20):
an old way of doing this and there's a New
Age way of doing it, and we've created the new
Age way of driving market conditions. So I'm fortunate because
I saw this coming in myself and my team, like you,
had the vision to say, the world is changing, Are
we going to fight it? Are we going to change
with it? And the head of it?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You and I spoke about a week ago, and you
know you've talked about this on this podcast as well.
You talk about transformation and innovation and how you've experienced
that in previous eras during Zimmerman's history, and here we
are at a speed of change and transformation that's daunting
(32:01):
to anybody. Is there anything that you're resisting changing? Whilst
this might be a new way of doing it, I'm
pretty good with the way I'm doing it and I
don't want to change it. Is there anything you know?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
For me?
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I learned by writing. So if I was studying for
something and reading a book in law school or whatever,
I write in the margin of the book what it said,
because if I write it, I remember it. So if
there was technology that changed that, I probably wouldn't adapt
to that technology because it would undermine at least what
(32:36):
I know helps me retain information.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
What I tell my team was I'm not diving into that.
We're going to test and learn, test and learn, test
and learn. I don't fight the new technology that's there
like AI. When you come to visit and you see
the hyper local, you're going to see how AI infused
and it's going to blow your mind how far ahead
we are with that. But we built an AI team
(33:02):
starting ten years ago, seeing that we saw that AI
was coming and we wanted to be ahead of where
it was. And these kids are so smart today, and
you see the money that Meta is offering them trying
to get back caught up in AI because he is
behind compared to Perplexity and everyone else that's out there
(33:23):
in this sector today.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
As you reflect on your journey, obviously hearing you tell
the story for Ratio Alga and knowing how active you
are in the community, is there a personal north star
for you right now? I mean you've achieved, you know,
not just again blowing smoke. You've achieved so much, both
in your personal endeavors and in your business endeavors. Is
there a personal north star for you right now?
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What I want to be able to do is leave
a mark, not only for the paying it forward. Like
when I built my AD school, somebody asked me a
question the universe that graduated from and doctor Judy Genschef
was the press and we had experimented with the program
for ten years, and I said, the only way I'm
going to build this ad school here besides what I'm
(34:08):
funding today, is to be able to one hundred percent
prove that the new curriculum is getting our students hired
faster and at higher salaries than anywhere else. Ten years
into the program, we went from twelve percent of our
students work in the advertising to eighty two percent of
our students getting job in advertising. So I made a
(34:29):
big donation to the school. Reporter asked me the day
that we announced it, said, why would you give so
much money to the school. Why wouldn't you use it
for your family for something else? And I thought that
was one of the dumbest questions ever heard, and I
said to her, I take offense to the question. Part
of the responsibility of becoming successful is helping other people
(34:52):
become successful too. Isn't that what our country is built on.
Isn't that the free enterprise system?
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, So, I want to tell you a quick story
before I get into my lightning round. Years ago, a
guy in the community came to me and was interested
in joining the country club that we're a member of,
and the criteria for the country club that I'm a
member of. Of course, you know, you be a respectable
member of the community and all of that, but it's
a criteria that they look at your charitable giving. It's
(35:22):
well known and it's not tithing. But they want people
in the you know, membership ranks that are people who
don't have to be wildly philanthropic, but people who give back.
And this guy came to me and said, Michael, I
really want to join the club. What do you think
I need to do? And you know, what's this deal
about the charitable side? And I said, well, look, there's
(35:44):
no rules, it's not written anywhere, but you know, they
look at that as one of the most important criteria
membership in the club. He said, well, how much do
I have to give to charity? I said, well, that's
not the right question to ask me because I don't know.
First of all, it's not a number, but it's relatively
I guess there must be some view of a percentage.
If you're making this amount of money, you should be
(36:05):
at least, you know, philanthropic with a certain portion. And
I said, look, in your case, I have a sense
of where your economics are because this is a guy
who couldn't help himself. He would constantly tell you where
his economics were. So I said, only from what you've
said to me, I have a sense. And I said,
you know, my bet is if there was some calculation,
it would be a number around this much. And he
(36:27):
stops me and he says, oh my god. He says,
do you know what kind of return I could invest
that money and get? And I stopped him and I said, well, then,
actually you're not ready to become a member of this
particular club. And he said why not? I said, because
you see, our view is the return on the giving
back is the fact you've given back. That's the return.
(36:50):
I'm not looking at. Did I make six percent on
my money? I'm looking at I made one hundred percent
on my money. I felt good and I helped the community.
So it's just funny when you say.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Oh, Michael, I got to tell you my grandfather told
me a long time ago. He said, whatever you give,
you're going to get back ten times. That's not why
you give, but that's the mist for you going to receive.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
That is true. So Jordan Zimmermann, here we go. I'm
gonna take it. Let's say it, Michael, one small habit
in your daily routine that brings you unexpected joy working out,
and I could tell by those guns you got there
that you're doing it. If you hit twenty four hours
with no restrictions. What's one adventure you'd embark.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
On traveling as much as I could to see the
rest of the world that I haven't seen yet. I
like that one.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
When was the last time you saw a person or
a company in the industry do something so clever you thought, damn,
I wish i'd thought of that.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Oh my gosh. Probably, Oh my god. There's so many
great examps of them, Michael. Let me go back. I
would say that Crispin and Porter in their heyday did
some amazing things that I wish I had done.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Burger King comes to my mind.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Yes, exactly. You know, they had the chicken, which I
thought was really amazing. I just thought, you know, Alex
was on his game then, and I like Alex a lot, so,
you know, and I thought that he did. I thought
they did really good job.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Seorgan. If you weren't doing what you're doing now, what
job would you be chasing.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I'd probably be an investment banking and I'm gonna tell
you why I really love the acquisition of companies since
I've been an omnikon. I bought three companies and folded
them into zerment for different reasons. And the sunichis that
come with it.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
I got one more for you. Who was your mentor
early in your career and what's the best piece of
advice that they ever gave you?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I love you. Asked that question when I was on
my paper out in New Jersey. I delivered at the
Nork Star Ledger and that's where I met my mentor
who inspired me to go into marketing and advertising. His
name was mister Dazzo. I knew his daughter. She was
a year younger than me. And mister Dazzle and our
community used to come to every football game. It was
(39:06):
like a big deal where we live. Everybody would go
to the game and there could be three to five
thousand people of the game. And I was collecting one
day and I walked in the door and Joe and says,
my dad said the piano awesome, And so I thought
he was playing the piano. What he was doing was
he was writing a jingle. So I asked him, mister Dazzle,
what are you doing. He goes, I'm writing a jingle.
(39:26):
I said, what's that? He goes to the musical composition
for radio and television, And I want to be able
to sell more seats on this airline than every other airline,
so I have to have something that's memorable and that
people huming their head. So I'm putting this jingle and
he starts playing and singing the jingle. I'm like, that's
the first guy I've ever met that loved what he did. So,
(39:47):
mister Dazzl, when I became instant friends, I used to
go over and hang out with him and learn about
the advertising and marketing business, and lo and Behaldy inspired
me so much that I actually went into the business.
Happening pretty good at So I want to give you
a story. I'm coming into ninth grade. My mother had
bright red hair and she was tough as nails. She
says to my brothers and sisters. When you're done with dinner,
(40:09):
please excuse yourself. We're going to talk to Jordan. She goes, So, son,
you're going into ninth grade. You know school is really
going to get tough, now, said, it's been tough already.
You know you told me I have to have straight a's,
and I have to have great grades and want to
get into a great college. She goes, now, it counts.
I said, what about all the other grades? It counts now.
(40:29):
But I want to know today, when you graduate high school,
what do you want to go to college to do?
What you want to major in? Ah? Mom, I know that.
I go, I want to go into marketing and advertising.
Put that poison in your mind. She goes, You're so smart,
you should be a doctor or a lawyer. I'm like,
(40:51):
that is not happening. That is not happening. So I
had to tell you that story.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, you know that reminds me. Will end on a joke,
the story of the the mother who's standing at the
at the inauguration and her son is being sworn in
as the president, and her friend is standing next to her.
She's saydie, you should be so proud your son is
the president of the United States. Is Ah, but my
other son is a doctor.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Exactly exactly Jordan Zimmerman.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
I want to bring the number forty back into this. Okay,
forty years of Zimmerman, forty days of you and I
being bff now, and forty minutes of just a pleasant,
wonderful journey through the life and times of Jordan Zimmerman
and the Zimmerman Agency. So, Jordan Zimmerman, I want to
thank you for joining Good Company. It was a blast
(41:41):
for me. I'm certain our listeners will agree.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Thank you, Michael, and thank you for coming into my life.
It's really having you in my life and a friend
is very meaningful to me. And you know, I don't
know what life would be not having you as my friend.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Now, there you go, take care of my friend.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Take care buddy.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced
and edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll
see you next time.
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