November 12, 2025 • 44 mins
From Enchanted to Bones to Kiss of the Spider Woman, Barry Josephson has mastered the art of turning imagination into impact. From overseeing a slate of Hollywood hits as President of Production at Columbia to producing culture-shaping stories at Josephson Entertainment, he joins Michael Kassan to unpack the alchemy of storytelling in a tech-driven world where creativity, courage, and curiosity collide to shape the future of entertainment
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The best advice I can always give to people is
to be forward thinking. Try not to think in the now.
Try to think ahead. You know, and you can look
back in history and you can learn so much. Try
to look forward. What's being invented, what's ahead, and how
can you be involved with that with your interest? Be
forward thinking.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Michael Casson and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:50):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome back to Good Company.
Today's guest has built some of the most enduring stories
in modern entertainment and helped redefine what it means to
be a creative entrepreneur in Hollywood. From Enchanted to Bones,
(01:12):
from Turn Washington Spies to the brand new Kiss of
the Spider Woman, Barry Josephson has spent his career turning
great ideas into cultural touchstones, finding the balance between creative
risk and commercial resonance. He's been a studio executive, a producer,
a creative matchmaker, and through it all he stayed future
focused and acutely curious as a producer who embraces technology,
(01:36):
streaming and even AI as tools for the progress, not
threats to tradition. In an area and in an era
where every brand wants to be a storyteller, Barry's work
stands out as a testament to creative integrity. Built on
collaborations with studios, leagues, and global franchises that connect across
generations and platforms, will unpack how to succeed in an
(01:59):
industry that never sits still, how to spot the next
wave of storytelling before it breaks, and how to protect
the human heartbeat inside every story. Regardless of how much
the tools may change, there's got to be a constant,
and Barry Josephson is one of those constants. Barry, thank
you for joining me on Good Company.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you for that wonderful introduction. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'd love to start off with the creative process you've
just completed producing a wonderful movie, and I'll let our
listeners in on a little secret. I saw the movie,
loved it, and I did it the old fashioned way
in a theater, and it was a great experience to
do that. Let's talk about The Kiss of the Spider Woman.
It's a project that's been reimagined before, but your version
(02:43):
with Bill Condon feels like something entirely new and different
on a story that's been told twice at least that
I can think of, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And some stories have so much integrity that they feel
like they could be reinterpreted. And that's how I felt
about reading Manuel Peek's book, and I was very fortunate
reached out to Tom Curdiey, who had the rights for
the music, and he's a brilliant Broadway producer and he
also controls ol the Terrence McNally material. He and I
agreed that there was a great opportunity to do a
(03:13):
new version of a musical movie which had not yet
been done. The Broadway show had won seven Tonys, and
Cheeter Rivera's you know icon and known from it and
so on, so it just felt like a great opportunity.
And he did mention to me that Bill Condon was interested,
and I said to him, you mean the Bill Condon,
and there could be nobody better to shape a musical
(03:34):
as a writer or a tour director. He's just so
smart and so clever and really thought about a new
way to tell this story, a story that really resonates
the story of the two men, the story of the
movie and the movie, the story of Aurora, the story
of the Spider Woman, the story of Valentin. And what's
really compelling about the movie is how Molina explains the
(03:55):
story to you and the charismatic figure that he is,
so it felt like just a no to back Bill
and go for it, and that's basically what we did.
This is Bill's movie, he thoughted out so well, and
I'm really proud of the movie that it became in.
Jennifer was the lynchpin, you know, having that eight plus
talent to join you and somebody who's perfect for the movie.
(04:16):
I think she's deserving of awards. I think, as is
the rest of the cast.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was brilliant and everything you just said brings me
back to the center point of this. You've got an
eye to identify talent, obviously, Bill Condon. I mean he's iconic.
J lo iconic. Correct, Kiss of the Spider Woman a story,
that's a beautiful story. But your back talent really is
what you've just said, because you look at a track record,
(04:43):
you know, I look at that. In marketing and advertising
and technology, you back talent. You look at the person
who's passionate about it. You look at the person who's
you know, what's their track record or et cetera. So
it's the same kind of decision you have to make when.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You're casting, if you will correct, you know, Yeah, my
first job in Hollywood was working for a company called
Lauramar doing post production music. I also ran the concert
committee of my university, American University, so you know, it
was always about talent, and I was a talent manager
for seven years. That experience, you know, you know, really
said to me, Okay, this is a talent based business.
(05:18):
That's how you package I'm not the talent. I'm going
to be behind the camera for my entire career. And
I had the great pleasure of you know, being in
bobb with Whoope Goldberg's career from day one and watching
the marvel that she was, you know, her Broadway show,
her performance in Color Purple, all of her performances was
a remarkable experience for me, so I carried that forward
into my producing and studio executive career. When I received
(05:40):
the movie Bad Boys and Turnaround, I thought, this is
a great movie for Martin Lawrence, this could be a
great movie for Will Smith. It was all about talent.
So I really thought that's how I was going to
base my career. And when I had the movie enchanted
from the script on, it took me nine years to
convince them to make a movie. But Amy Adam Audition
(06:01):
was so spectacular. She was not well known. She'd done
two movies before Junebug and a small part and Catch
Me as you Can. And for me, that was it.
I mean, she was so phenomenal, and the studio agreed
and that came out in the movie.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So Barry, it would be so interesting to our audience.
And a note to me, And I've had to describe
this many times, but I would never be able to
describe it as well as you. The job of a producer.
When we talk about this person produced the movie, it's
easier for common folk to understand what a director does.
Sure tell me from your perspective, the job of a
(06:35):
producer Now you've been a studio executive to run studios.
You're producing from a studio platform. But when you're an
independent producer, what's your job? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You can be creative as a studio executive, and many are.
It's just that it's more the job of a banker.
You're making financial decisions for an institution about whether you're
going to invest in a motion picture or not, and
in the elements that much a picture, and as a
stew executive, you have to make smart decisions. I like
to think in the history of the movies I made
but a studo executive, Men in Black, in the Line
(07:06):
of Fire, or of course one.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
By the way, to our listeners there you say that
it just rolls off your tongue, those are some of
the most special movies of a generation. In the Line
of Fire, I closed my eyes I think of it,
And the reason I remember that is it's the only
I think clin Exwood movie that was not a mal
Passo production, which was normally his production company was Our Columbia,
(07:29):
not Warner Brothers. Bro delivered all of Clinicxwood's movies historically.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yes, I believe he only did two movies outside of warners.
That's where his deal was. That's really smart. I think
the Eiger sanction may have been the other one could be.
But what happened was when we optioned that script with
Castle Rock Out of the Blue. My boss used to
work at Warner Brothers Markin And what was interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Who I went to college with.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Parenthetically, okay, well, Clint's agent actually called and said he's
really interested in the script. We were never even thinking
about Clint East, thinking about Redford Puccino, you know, who
would be the right age specific actor for this. And
when he called, it was just remarkable because he became
the movie, he embodied the movie. And to bring a
(08:12):
filmmaker actor, you know, of that level, you know, such
a great artist to that movie. It's the exact definition
of talent coming forward to enhance.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Something. I tell people this frequently, the reason we call
it show business. There's the show and there's the business.
You I think uniquely bridge both. You do have creative ability,
you do have creative eye, you do have creative talent.
You've got you do. And I'm telling our listeners you're
very thin, you don't have that gun, but you've got
(08:44):
you've got the muscle that can make you capable of
strong creative input and decisioning, but you're on the business
side of show business generally.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Correct, And going back to your question, I mean, what
does a producer do well? The real producer of a project.
You know, those people have to make those great creative decisions.
I admired greatly Jerry Bruckheimer when I worked with them
on Bad Boys, and I sort of modeled my career
after him. Not having the incredible fortune that Jerry's had,
but the idea of you know, what is the best
(09:15):
version of the script, who's the right person to execute it?
You know, there are many steps along the way that
you need to take, and that's when good decisions are helpful.
If you're a good producer, those are the most important
decisions you make from script to filmmaker to execute it
and so on, and that can be hit and missed,
but you try to make the best decisions possible. And
(09:37):
I feel very fortunate, whether it's a television series or
a feature, I've been fortunate to make some of those
good decisions, and I've really admired a lot of people's
careers along the way. You know, you and I were
talking about Jeffrey Katzenberg. It's a remarkable career. Michaeliser. We
just both read Barry Diller's book. It's incredible and you know,
to look at like Lawrence Gordon, who did so many
(09:57):
great movies, trading places, feel the dreams. You know, these
people have this ability to produce. It's like a traditional,
amazing ability to put things together, but put them together properly,
and even in the independent film business now putting together
Kiss the Spider Worm or any of these brilliant independent movies.
(10:18):
It's about those elements, in those elements clicking.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, and the click, if you will, in the Elements
and Kiss of the Spider Woman. That balance between fantasy
and reality is brilliant because you're taking the audience back
and forth correct and at the beginning it's a bit daunting,
not confusing it. I was able to follow it, but
once I got the thread and it just played so brilliantly,
(10:42):
and the difference between reality and fantasy.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, and Bill, you know, really toned those actors so well.
But Diego Luna is a remarkable actor. He grounds the movie.
It's a brilliant performance. You're compelled by the drama between
those two men. And then Tony tilla when Molina's carriacter
is able to tell you this magnificent story in such
an entertaining way. And obviously j Loo is just a
(11:06):
spectacle to see perform these songs and this music. So again,
like I thought, when you look at that movie and
it looked at how Bill executed, it defines sort of
those creative elements all coming together.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You've also had a career arc that involved adaptation of
stories that are you know, well known, whether it's fairy
tales and enchanted to history and Washington Spies. How do
you balance the faithfulness, if you will, the loyalty to
the story that are so well known, while yet making
(11:43):
it something new and different. Correct, It's interesting to be
respectful of what was, you know. I always likened this
to a book I read years ago by Laura Hildebrant.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
When I read Seabiscuit, I tried to option that as Yeah,
I was one of like ten people who actually got
on the phone with her and.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Pitched her when I read it, I fancy it's one
of the best sports books I've ever read. Correct, And
what always amazed me is it's a sports book that
I already knew the ending to. Yes, yet it was spellbound. Yes,
So it was a way to tell a story that
I already knew. Yes, like the way she told it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, that's where material often inspires you. It's the whole
reason for being in this industry. You know, you read
a script, you read a book as incredible as that,
and you think to yourself, my god, you know are unbroken.
You think I've broke. This story is just yearning to
be told, right, you know, going back to Turn Washington Spies,
my show runner Craig Silverstein, you know who really created
that show. The book was brilliant and the book unearthed
(12:37):
a really interesting thing about Washington's first spies. The story
had not been told. There have been two books written
about and Alexander Rose wrote the definitive book about it,
and that was the book that we optioned and worked
with for years. And I remember saying to Craig, you know,
it's so interesting. So much is known and so much
is unknown. And that's what the book proves. So much
was left secret and never told. Craig handled it really well.
(13:01):
He said, I'm going to entertain an audience. I'm going
to use the history, but I'm also going to presume
what happened in between, and that was brilliant, and that
was the narrative of that show. He took those characters,
created a story based on historical knowledge and what was
unknown we made up. But making up connected the dots
accurately to history. But you had to imagine interpretation and
(13:25):
American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Not everything was written and there were no interviews that
were filmed.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That's right, listen. I felt that way about Hamilton. I
read the book years ago, right when I went to
see the show, and I love to tell this story.
I had no preconceived I had not read heard known
a thing about the show. I ran into a friend
of mine a week before in New York and I said,
(13:50):
what's going on? He said, oh, I just went to
this show last night at the Public. I said what show?
And he said Hamilton. I said, oh, I hadn't heard
about it, hadn't come to Broadway yet. And he said,
it's marvelous. You see it, he said, in fact, one
of my friends was one of the producers. I said, oh, well,
maybe I can get some house seats. Huh. So I
went and saw it with no preconceived sat in the
(14:11):
theater and lost my mind.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
LUs you might. Well, you know, Charlie Collier, our mutual friend,
he backed me on Turn Washington Spies from day one
with his executive Susic Fitzgerald. And they enjoyed the book
very much too, and they knew what it was. And
I remember talking to Charlie about the movie Lincoln, and ironically,
you know, when it came together, we cobbled together our
first sets from what Lincoln had shot in Virginia. That
(14:36):
movie is so brilliant. Spielberg is so brilliant in any
set that was left behind. I took advantage of, you know,
so from one great biopic film okay two hours, Yeah,
from Lincoln back to Washington. You know, we took advantage
of that opportunity. But again, all of this creative endeavor
requires backing. For example, Kylier backed us on four seasons
(14:58):
of that show. It's one of the things I'm most
proud of. And so it has to be where you
make a financial bet, and you make a good one,
but you have to believe in the underlying material are
the people who are executing.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So talking about backing, Barry, You've lived in film and television,
now Broadway, I had the pleasure of seeing just In
Time recently, and another little note to our listeners at
my funeral, Okay, Mac, the knife will that one of
the songs that will be played that's already been written
in It is my favorite song of literally all time.
(15:32):
So the idea of a show about Bobby Darren floated
my boat and it's a wonderful evening of theater and
I highly recommend it. What schlept you to Broadway?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, all producers these days need to diversify. If you're
going to make it, you have to be producing film television.
I'm now in the podcast business. I have three projects
I'm developing for Broadway, two that I've invested in. You know,
I'm very excited about how well justin Time has done.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And it's like the hottest thing on Broadway.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yes, And the actual producer who put it together, Tom Curdiey,
you know, is the one who invited me in. And
I'm very fortunate and I watched that show come together
and that was a great experience for me, a really
good learning curve.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I Jonathan Groff in terms of finding talent that
you back.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, that is a very interesting story, I'll tell you
really quickly, and that is that Jonathan Groff was the
one who decided when he read Bobby Darren's son's book,
Dodd's book, he wanted to do the show as a
Broadway show, and it took years and he never really
could get his arms around it. But he told Tom
Curdigey the story about wanting to do it and how
he wanted to do it, and Tom flew out to
(16:38):
la and it took him a while, but he did
option the rights. So when we go back to that
conversation about what is a producer, there you go, that's
a great example of somebody who was aggressive, got it done,
finessed it, and then you look at that show, it
is remarkable, just in time, all the talent involved, director
did a great job. It's an amazing show and I'm
(16:59):
very fortunate to have been involved with it because of Tom.
And again this coming year, the Lost Boys, the same
thing where I became very interested in it because of
the writer, David horns b who's married to Emily de
Chanel who starred in Bones. And when I went to
see a run through of that show, it was just
I thought so compelling. So producing these days diversification looking
(17:21):
for new avenues to go down, and that's what I'm
currently doing.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
We've got more insights to share. You've thrived through basically
every major era, theatrical network, cable, now streaming. How do
(17:51):
you think streaming has changed the value of content? Again,
the business side of this. And I'm not only talking
about value in financial terms. I'm talking about value in
spiritual and cultural terms. I mean, sure, there's content that
is not profitable, you know, from a financial perspective, but
have moved mountains and then changed the world. So how
(18:13):
do you look at the value of content through the
lens of streaming.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Well, in the music industry, iTunes in Spotify have transformed
that industry, and streaming has transformed our industry. And also
the effect of streaming and then the timing of COVID
I think also affected our business in such a profound way.
Whereas it's very hard to get people into a movie
theater these days. You look at last weekend, the underperformance,
(18:41):
it happens in many weekends, many times, how many movies
succeed in the theater or not. Streaming is the industry.
So again, like you have twenty seven percent of people
watching YouTube. I think that's the number. Now YouTube is
TV today, I mean effectively.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's yes.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And I think you know, there's all these different platforms
that go on to their Apple TV or they're Roku
and they're through to the world, right, and so Netflix
profound difference. I mean that is, you know, history will
show that's the big game changer, same thing as Steve
Jobs introducing the iPhone. I mean that these are game
changer moments and it's never going.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
To go back.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
You can't hope that the theatrical business will be the
same anymore. So streaming is it and you know, whether
it's a network show. People don't want to watch Day
and Date anymore, and they've been profoundly changed by COVID
and by happing everything at their fingertips.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So although I think there's a fallback to you know,
hell Apple's doing you know, an episode a week, you know,
back to that, there is some desire. But I still
hear from many of my friends and you know, my
mother in law research is I'm going to wait till
all ten episodes have dropped and then I'll binge it.
Sure our habits have changed to that point. I'm liking
(19:52):
both ways, but I see the benefit in both ways.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's more of a diversification of how you need to
deliver it to the audience. Okay, so they are saying, okay,
we're going to just drop one a week, and the
reason for that is they want to satisfy their subs,
but they also want to satisfy an advertiser. They also
want to satisfy this notion of like teasing it out
and not having you just blow through it because they
can only produce so much, you know, and they want
to hold their subs. So there's a lot of reasons
(20:16):
why to do that. There are many things that we
just watched the minute they come on. But there are
so many times that we're now in these casual conversations
where somebody says, and I'll just say it's in my cue, yeah,
and or somebody said have you watched have you seen?
And you think to yourself, God, no, I haven't gotten
to that yet, and you can't believe you hadn't. And
you know, I have a friend who just watch adolescents okay,
(20:38):
and I was like, I couldn't wait for him to
finish it. But yeah, I mean I had to see
that right away. But then there's other things where I
haven't even gotten to them yet. And I was listening
to j Lo talk on Howard Sturning the other day
and she was talking about Peaky Blinders. I felt like, oh, yes,
that was such a great stream, you know, and that
was one show that I didn't get to until a
year after it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, and you know the story, we've all got them.
My story of that was Breaking Bad. Everybody was talking
about Breaking Bad and I hadn't. I hadn't gone there.
I watched the first episode and I said, I don't
get it. That's not catching me. But you know what,
the whole army is not out of step. Everybody is raving.
I got to go try it again. I went back
in watched the first episode again, and then I was
(21:20):
hooked right once I did it again and I said, okay,
I get it. Yeah, then I was hooked. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
By the way, I don't mean to kill the theatrical business.
I just think that it's changed so much. And I
do think there's a world in which, you know, when
there's a theater in a mall and it's a multiplex,
and people have an experience of an evening that potentially
is a way to see the theatrical business continue. But
I think they have to put a lot of work
into what is that experience of going to a theater?
(21:45):
You know, should it just be that you pay for
a twenty dollars popcorn to get this thing from a
promotional item, or should it be that promotional items are
provided to people who go to the theater the first weekend.
There needs to be a lot of work done to
get people back to the theater experience, because it still
is the greatest way to watch a film, There's no doubt,
(22:07):
and I still love going to the movies, but I
will say, but two young kids, it is not the
easiest thing when they can just so easily stream. But
if the experience is good, then it could be something
where you can get people out. And I think that's
still going to have to have a hard look where
(22:27):
that can be enhanced.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So, Barry, we've talked about your experience in various distribution methods, channels,
et cetera. You talked about Steve Jobs and how he
changed the world. Yes, and I submit to you that
I've been saying to people over the last couple of years.
But basically last two years. In the arc of my career,
the three most important technological advances would have been the
(22:51):
introduction of mobile telephony. The mobile phone changed our lives, correct.
The second one would be the Internet full stop changed
our life correct. The third one in his AI. Now,
there's been a lot in between shiny new toys of
dot com and dot com and n fts and web
threes and all of those kinds of things. I'm not
saying they're not important and haven't been culturally relevant. But
(23:14):
the three things that I just said, mobile telephony, the Internet,
and AI. I'm going to talk about AI for a moment,
because just in this conversation, Barry, it's clear to me
that you respect talent and human craftsmanship. I'll go back
to mad Men for one second. I remember at the
last episode of mad Men that they did a big
thing here in la at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion. And
(23:35):
what Matt Weiner did that I thought was so incredible.
He invited all the crafts people up on the stage.
You're there celebrating the history of this show, game changing
as it was. And of course he had John Hamm
and the actors and astresses, but he put the crafts
people up because the crafts people in that show delivered.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Oh yeah, look at the props, look at the set deck,
look at everything.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It was perfect. It was perfect that human craftsmanship. Is
AI going to be doing that now? Or are we
going to lose that human craftsmanship? Are we going to
lose that ability? You know, I've said this to studio executives,
and I'm going to ask you this question. So I'm
giving you a compound question. Number one, that sort of
craftsmanship is AI going to replace that? Number one? And
(24:21):
number two, you've proven over the years of your career
that you've got a pretty good gut. You've made very
very good decisions in terms of the products that you've
green lit, and projects you've green lit and things you've done.
That comes from your gut. Right, But with the advent
of data and information that we all have access to today, right,
(24:42):
the predictive modeling that can be done, where does the
data come across to the gut? Okay, I think j
Lo is the right person for this because it's my gut,
or it's because I've scraped the Internet through an AI
agent and that's what I've been told.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, I think, first of all, Anybody who thinks AI
isn't going to take over certain positions in all industries
is crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It will.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It has already. I'm really worried about people graduating college
and looking for jobs. It's going to affect the workforce tremendously,
whether it's from medical research to engineering to any and
every job. You know, except for the most practical hands
on plumber. It's going to affect every single industry.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And the prep for the plumber will be done through technology. Correct,
You're right, there's going to need to be hands on,
although with robotics maybe not.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But yeah, but I still think, you know, in my industry,
it's a very creative industry. I don't know that AI
can ever do exactly what a director does. Okay. AI
could invent an actor. AI can invent a set, you know,
and the more we have digital sets, the more that's
going to be profoundly impacted. But you know, I think
these hands on artists, from set decorator to props to
(25:54):
all of it has still needs to be human beings
and still should be human beings. It is an art
form artists should create. Will AI write things, yes, will
AI execute things?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
But I still think this is a human endeavor, an
intelligent human endeavor where creatives will not go away, but
will they be assisted by will they be helped by?
Can AI take over certain jobs? Absolutely, that's frightening. And
you know, when I have gone on perplexity to do research,
it's remarkable. I mean, do you need research or anymore?
(26:26):
Perhaps not, because the information comes back to you not
in a week or four days, but in seconds, in seconds,
and creating material, some accurate, some not so much. But
what's incredible is that how quickly it moves, and how
quickly it's going to move into every single industry.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Well, and also let's talk about talent. You talk about
young people coming out of school and if they're going
to be in creative industries or whatever jobs they're going
to be seeking. You're right, it's different. I had the
good fortune of listening to Jenson Wang, the CEO of Video,
a couple of months ago. He made this point, and
I've been talking about it frequently. He looked out at
(27:03):
an audience of about seven hundred and fifty one thousand
people and he said, you folks, your job won't be
replaced by AI, but it will be replaced by somebody
who understands AI. So note to self, get educated first
and foremost.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well said, no, I think that's the message. Definitely, get educated,
know how to use it and watch it grow and
what it does.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
And not as a crutch, as a tool, so it
should be empowering. I hope it's always just a tool, right.
It doesn't take my place right, Okay, but it is
a massively impactful tool, let's face it, and it's getting
better and better and better.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, the network effect is coming true in this case
more than ever. You know, I learned this early when
you understood how Google was able to create the best
search engine in the world. It was the network effect.
I presume that's obvious. But the more you utilize Google,
the better the search gets. Yes, you're educating system. Well,
(28:01):
that's what we're watching happen real time with AI at
a level. That is the scraping that goes on.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think the thing for me that I still like
to adhere to and maybe I'll go to my grave
with this one is about thirty two years ago I
helped really great creative Barbara Morgan create the Awesome Film Festival,
which we created for writers because there have been so
many director centric film festivals. We did this for writers.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Now there are many you were IRL before our IRL
was the thing to do. There you go go ahead going.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
But every year I went to the festival and the
more writers that we brought. The early adopters were Shane Black,
Akiva Goldsman, JJ Abrams. You'd listen to them talk about
what they had created, what they worked on over the years.
The audience that would come, the people who would, you know,
admire the work done, and then all the writers over
the years that have come to that. AI cannot be
(28:51):
jj Abrams. AII cannot be Jim Brooks. AI cannot be
Norman Lear, AI cannot be Mel Brooks. I mean, I've
interviewed some of the people that I'm talking about, and
it's really remarkable. You can't imagine how this creative came
to be from these people and you look at the
work and you marvel at it. I don't know. I mean, sure,
(29:14):
artificial intelligence can create some things and will and is,
but nothing will replace the genius of these kind of artists.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The writer's room concept is that the interaction, the human
experience that you think. I mean, I'm asking because I
marvel at the creative process from that perspective and the writer's.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Room, I get the writer's room is remarkable when there's
a showrunner in great writers, okay, and how they inspire
each other, how they pitch each other, how they get accepted,
they're denied, kickback, go away, come back? You know like
that process you know that happens in a writer's room
of a television series or a Broadway show being rewritten,
(29:56):
you know, based on director's notes and so on and
previews and all that. You know, that's that is a
creative process that is not going to go away?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Will it be.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Assisted by AI? Could AI create a store? You know, look,
could you put in enough information where it will then
kick back something? I was the person right, But it's
drawing off the genius of these people. Absolutely, that's what
it's doing. So the genius that comes forward is always
going to inspire. And look at what Lin Manuel created
(30:25):
with Hamilton that you just spoke of. I mean, come on,
that is just a brilliant piece of theater that has
stood the test of time for a good reason. You know, AI,
I don't think will create that, okay, because that requires thought, invention, reinvention, passion, music, passion,
all of it. And so again I do love the
(30:47):
creative process augmented. Yes, I hope that all of these
geniuses are still the ones that are inventing what we appreciate.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Well, you bring me to a good question. The advent
of the Internet originally was from my view, one of
the things it did was democratization of content, correct distribution creation.
There was no longer somebody with a green light switch
that would determine whether you could get what you've created
correct out into the world. Yes, everyone has their own
(31:16):
green light switches.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And the algorithm that pushes to you based on your
interests is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But we're living in a world where anybody can write, shoot,
distribute from their own phone. We don't need, you know,
studio heads anymore to say yes or no to get
a project made. How does that democratization excite you as
a creator? As somebody who's been you know, you've had
the green light, You've had the switch that you can
flip to say yes sir RCT. Now you don't. You
(31:41):
don't need somebody to do that for you anymore. And
if I'm a young person coming up, I certainly don't.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, in terms of the independent filmmaker, all of these
tools make it easier. You're still going to require for
most big movies and television series financing. Still you don't
have to go to somebody for an answer. Okay, So
the more you do the creative, the more the creative
is laid out, the better it's going to help you
going forward. But I do think it's still a process
where you need to create something very strong to move forward.
(32:10):
But yes, the fact that somebody can shoot a movie
in an iPhone and get actors who are willing and
get crew that's willing to do it for a price,
that is a game changer in terms of how we
look at technologies impact on this industry.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Good Company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
So we're at a point in time where the conversations
around brand partnerships and storied commerce are becoming very, very
important in the market. And for so many years we've
talked about Madison and Vine or Hollywood Boulevard meets Madison
Avenue and the idea of a different model. Well, you
(33:00):
will remember this not because you were around doing it.
You're not that old, neither am I. But historically most
people don't realize that Sigourney Weaver is famous for being
an actress. But what we really should focus on is
Sigourney Weaver's father, Sylvester Pat Weaver, who was a television
executive in the fifties, and what he did was change
the face of television Texago presents even different. He came
(33:23):
from the advertising industry, and he understood the concept of
picking up Life magazine or Look magazine or Time magazine
and having not one advertiser, not Westinghouse Theater, but multiple
advertisers in a magazine. The idea of television. In the
early days, the advertisers controlled it. There was a meeting
that happened. I always kid around and said love to
(33:44):
have been in that room when that meeting occurred, where
somebody said to the advertisers, No, no, no, you're not
in charge anymore. We are. We're just going to take
your money and we're going to sell you spots, but
we're going to determine the content. The flip happened when
Pat Weaver realized the idea for the Today The Today
Show and the Tonight Show, which he created. Was the
(34:05):
first time that networks could afford to own the program
because they were cheaper to produce, and so you didn't
have to rely on the advertiser. And you turned it
around and you said, we're going to do a Today Show,
We'll own it, We'll sell you advertising spots. The game's
changing now we're in charge of the content. And that
was the change in television. So it's a little known
fact that Sigourney Weaver, I guess deserves Hollywood Royalty for
(34:28):
her own wonderful achievements, but for that of her father
and changing television. We are all the way back to
the beginning now, however, Barry, where brands now want to
have more to say about content and they want to
be involved more in the creation, the production and the
financing of content. You've seen evolution in your career from
(34:48):
product placement to full brand integration. You know, talk about
men in black. Tell me a better product integration than
ray band sunglasses.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It was great emilies to watch ray band sunglasses. I
wish I had actually done more.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But do you think about that as the quintessential you know?
I still use that, yeah, okay in life, that line,
you know, But where we are today, when you know,
think of like sports, Okay, when the NBA, the NBA,
the NHL, the NFL getting them involved in content creation,
(35:22):
not just you know, look at F one and what
just happened in a movie that's brillion movie. You know
all about product Yes, I mean down to the uniforms
and you know, having Geico on on the uniforms.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Jerry Breckenmer is brilliant. That's the ultimate marketing tool. You
know what's on that car exactly, all the sponsors he
put together.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
You know, there's a saying that every brand wants to
be a studio. Now are you navigating that? How are
you seeing that?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I am. I'm trying to access that. As a matter
of fact. You know a friend of mine that you
should interview Michael Sugar as a company, Sugar twenty three.
They're doing oh Michael, Well, yeah, they're doing branding and
it's a very smart move because they recognize that brands
are are going to more and more want to be
involved with content. I think it's actually a good thing,
I really do, because it's going to help any way
to bring more money into the industry is going to
(36:08):
help the industry create, you know, and I think Skydance
is a great company that's well funded that's going to
help this business that's already going to help Paramount pictures.
But I think mostly the idea of brands. Why shouldn't
BMW sponsor a show that can enhance their product? Any
movie I've done, I've looked for product placement. I loved
when I made Like Mike that it was enhancing for
(36:29):
the NBA. I mean, there's still kids who walk up
to Mar's chestnut and scream and yell at him. And
the brand follow through into our industry is crucial for
the industry. But also it's great for those brands.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And there's so.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Many great opportunities to you know, have that coffee brand
or that car and so on in this industry, and
people are getting very accustomed to it. And I do
think the idea of presentational is important too. I think
these brands should do that more and more. They should
back a film, back a show, let it be presentational.
And again, like, I don't mean to detegrate anything, but
(37:04):
do I need to see a thirty or sixty second
spot with people dancing about rabel Sis. No, I'd much
prefer you.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Know, I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There's always going to be that traditional commercial, okay, But
the idea of brands integrating with entertainment as long as
they're not changing or influencing how it's executed.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I think the idea of it is so important to
the industry, and it is going to be a thing
more and more, especially now in the podcasting industry, all
forms of entertainment. Why not let it be presentational.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That way thousand percent, Barry. Before I get to do
my fun part of this, the lightning realm, where I
get to ask you some questions that we haven't talked about.
I kind of like to end with this, especially in
your case, because you've done this over again. I'll use
the expression of the arc of your career. You've stayed
very relevant. Okay, You've had a long and a wonderful career.
But here we are in twenty twenty five. You've got
(37:57):
a hip movie and a hip Broadway show. So I
would say you're about as relevant as you can get.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
My ten year old son always says me, Dad, how
old are you again? And I say twenty He goes, Dad,
stop lying. I said, well, I feel that way, okay,
so why don't you start asking me how I feel?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
There you go, that's a better question. What advice would
you give to young leaders today in marketing and media
entertainment who are trying to stay relevant. As we've said,
storytelling formats and storytellers are multiplying, and there may be
some that aren't even people. Is there a bit of
advice you'd give to somebody.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
The best advice I can always give to people is
to be forward thinking. Try not to think in the now.
Try to think ahead, you know, and you can look
back in history and you can learn so much, you know,
And the new JFK book that I'm reading, I was
just thinking so much about somebody who is transitioning in
his life, and somebody who wanted to grow so much
beyond where he was, and he was trying to mature.
(38:51):
He's trying to change his points of view. So I
always try to tell people find some forward thinking touchdowns.
Try to look forward, what's being invented, what's ahead, and
how can you be involved with that with your interest.
Be forward thinking, do as much research about what is
around the corner, and there are things to read and
there's knowledge to get about that, And I think that's
(39:13):
how you have to look at your next step. In
my career, I was always looking at the next thing,
whether it's the next job, whether it's the next opportunity,
whether it's the next technology. I always wanted people to
I used to say, enhance my brain. I wanted to
learn as much as possible. And I think at this
day and age especially, you have no choice. You have
no choice. You have to be forward thinking. So that's
the best advice I can give my kids. You know,
(39:34):
what do you think for my daughter's share? Is going
to be the thing you're interested in tomorrow? You know
what's it going to be five years from now? And
the more you think like that, the more you can
be prepared.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
No doubt. Okay, Barry, here we go on some lightning round.
If you could give your younger self one piece of
a guidance or advice, what would.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
It be Think twice good.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
This is always a hard question to ask because you know,
become Sophie's choice in many cases. But what's your favorite
film that you've ever made or one you wish you
had made?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
My favorite film I ever made was Enchanted. I loved
the creative of it. I loved the premise of it.
It also gave a Disney permission to take all of
their titles and make them live action. But I honestly,
I just loved the transition of that and the story
and the execution. It was all a wonderful experience. In
(40:27):
terms of the movie, I always wish that I had
made It's pretty simple. I was always impacted and would
go back to two movies. I'm sorry I have to
pick it because you can pick two sure, Star Wars
and The Godfather, because the creative, the invention, the just
basic storytelling, the family feeling of it. Both both movies, Yeah,
(40:50):
were remarkable and some great work, and it defined I
think script to execution.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
What is your greatest professional fear?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Professional fear? I don't have a great professional fear. I
really want to say my greatest fear is Alzheimer's or
early said dementia. Okay, I want to be thinking and
learning and growing every single day.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And finally, Barry, and you could answer this with more
than one, but was there a particular mentor early in
your career and was there a particular piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I was very fortunate early in my career and on
throughout to have met Larry Gordon, the producer I mentioned
before who produced some brilliant movies, was a studio executive.
Did what I sort of wanted to do in this industry.
And I think Larry was the most important because he
was always available to me. He would always offer me feedback,
(41:45):
and sometimes it would be harsh, and sometimes it would
not be what I'd want to hear, but he was learned,
he was willing to offer feedback and someone and I did.
Obviously I was influenced by Jerry Barkheimer as well. Larry
was always there for me. It's interesting that you asked
that question. When I wanted to join the academy, who
do they go to? Larry and Jerry. So it's important
(42:08):
to have mentors. It's important to have people that.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Look, those are two mentors that you're very fortunate to
have had folks like that as mentors.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I'll tell you tangentile thing which you may not put
on this podcast, but what Larry has always done to
me very successfully is he has done more practical jokes
to me that have worked because I'm so influenced a
mentored by him that I would always go for a
hook line and sinker. I was in New York one night.
I've gone out to dinner with Ron Meyer and his
wife and a very influential table of people that perhaps
(42:37):
I shouldn't have been at somehow he caught wind of it.
He called me up and he said, my god, what
did you say to ron and Meyer's wife. It's all over.
You're in a whole hell of a trouble. You'll never
be working at CIA again. What are you talking about?
So immediately, I, at like eight in the morning, I'm
on the phone trying to find him to apologize. And
(42:59):
I just got on the phone and I apologize for
about five minutes, and he kept trying to interrupt me,
and I said, please, Ronnie, don't interrupt me. I must apologize.
I said, I don't know what I said. I know
I sat down and we talked and so on. But
you know, I'm so sorry. And he's on on and
the whole time. When I found out later, he's just
sort of covering the phone laughing because he knows something
(43:21):
has happened, but he doesn't know what.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I love that story.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And then he finds out that Larry put me up
to it. He wasn't even expecting the phone call.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
When I made the movie Last Action Hero, which was
a huge flop, because you have to have one or
two before you succeed, Larry called me and he said,
where are you, jose And I said, oh, I'm I'm
going to be going to the premiere in New York
of Last Action. Here. He goes, where are you staying?
And I said, Oh, I'm staying at the Four Seasons. Really,
that's a nice hotel. What florie on? I said, I
think I'm on twenty three. He goes, that's high enough.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Very good. Johnson. On that note, I think we're going
to bring this conversation to an end, but I want
to underscore something, Barry. I was looking forward to this
and you didn't let me down. This was a trait
and a tribute both to be able to have this conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh, thank you, and I admire you and I admire
your impact on this industry and how you are there
to really put people forward and think forward and know
how to manage their industry and their work. It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Thank you, Barry Josephson.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Thanks Michael Casson.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Good Company is brought to you by three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and Head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Episodes are produced and edited by Mary Doo.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Thanks for joining us, We'll see you next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
The best advice I can always give to people is
to be forward thinking. Try not to think in the now.
Try to think ahead. You know, and you can look
back in history and you can learn so much. Try
to look forward. What's being invented, what's ahead, and how
can you be involved with that with your interest? Be
forward thinking.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
I'm Michael Casson and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:50):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome back to Good Company.
Today's guest has built some of the most enduring stories
in modern entertainment and helped redefine what it means to
be a creative entrepreneur in Hollywood. From Enchanted to Bones,
(01:12):
from Turn Washington Spies to the brand new Kiss of
the Spider Woman, Barry Josephson has spent his career turning
great ideas into cultural touchstones, finding the balance between creative
risk and commercial resonance. He's been a studio executive, a producer,
a creative matchmaker, and through it all he stayed future
focused and acutely curious as a producer who embraces technology,
(01:36):
streaming and even AI as tools for the progress, not
threats to tradition. In an area and in an era
where every brand wants to be a storyteller, Barry's work
stands out as a testament to creative integrity. Built on
collaborations with studios, leagues, and global franchises that connect across
generations and platforms, will unpack how to succeed in an
(01:59):
industry that never sits still, how to spot the next
wave of storytelling before it breaks, and how to protect
the human heartbeat inside every story. Regardless of how much
the tools may change, there's got to be a constant,
and Barry Josephson is one of those constants. Barry, thank
you for joining me on Good Company.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thank you for that wonderful introduction. Pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I'd love to start off with the creative process you've
just completed producing a wonderful movie, and I'll let our
listeners in on a little secret. I saw the movie,
loved it, and I did it the old fashioned way
in a theater, and it was a great experience to
do that. Let's talk about The Kiss of the Spider Woman.
It's a project that's been reimagined before, but your version
(02:43):
with Bill Condon feels like something entirely new and different
on a story that's been told twice at least that
I can think of, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And some stories have so much integrity that they feel
like they could be reinterpreted. And that's how I felt
about reading Manuel Peek's book, and I was very fortunate
reached out to Tom Curdiey, who had the rights for
the music, and he's a brilliant Broadway producer and he
also controls ol the Terrence McNally material. He and I
agreed that there was a great opportunity to do a
(03:13):
new version of a musical movie which had not yet
been done. The Broadway show had won seven Tonys, and
Cheeter Rivera's you know icon and known from it and
so on, so it just felt like a great opportunity.
And he did mention to me that Bill Condon was interested,
and I said to him, you mean the Bill Condon,
and there could be nobody better to shape a musical
(03:34):
as a writer or a tour director. He's just so
smart and so clever and really thought about a new
way to tell this story, a story that really resonates
the story of the two men, the story of the
movie and the movie, the story of Aurora, the story
of the Spider Woman, the story of Valentin. And what's
really compelling about the movie is how Molina explains the
(03:55):
story to you and the charismatic figure that he is,
so it felt like just a no to back Bill
and go for it, and that's basically what we did.
This is Bill's movie, he thoughted out so well, and
I'm really proud of the movie that it became in.
Jennifer was the lynchpin, you know, having that eight plus
talent to join you and somebody who's perfect for the movie.
(04:16):
I think she's deserving of awards. I think, as is
the rest of the cast.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
It was brilliant and everything you just said brings me
back to the center point of this. You've got an
eye to identify talent, obviously, Bill Condon. I mean he's iconic.
J lo iconic. Correct, Kiss of the Spider Woman a story,
that's a beautiful story. But your back talent really is
what you've just said, because you look at a track record,
(04:43):
you know, I look at that. In marketing and advertising
and technology, you back talent. You look at the person
who's passionate about it. You look at the person who's
you know, what's their track record or et cetera. So
it's the same kind of decision you have to make when.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You're casting, if you will correct, you know, Yeah, my
first job in Hollywood was working for a company called
Lauramar doing post production music. I also ran the concert
committee of my university, American University, so you know, it
was always about talent, and I was a talent manager
for seven years. That experience, you know, you know, really
said to me, Okay, this is a talent based business.
(05:18):
That's how you package I'm not the talent. I'm going
to be behind the camera for my entire career. And
I had the great pleasure of you know, being in
bobb with Whoope Goldberg's career from day one and watching
the marvel that she was, you know, her Broadway show,
her performance in Color Purple, all of her performances was
a remarkable experience for me, so I carried that forward
into my producing and studio executive career. When I received
(05:40):
the movie Bad Boys and Turnaround, I thought, this is
a great movie for Martin Lawrence, this could be a
great movie for Will Smith. It was all about talent.
So I really thought that's how I was going to
base my career. And when I had the movie enchanted
from the script on, it took me nine years to
convince them to make a movie. But Amy Adam Audition
(06:01):
was so spectacular. She was not well known. She'd done
two movies before Junebug and a small part and Catch
Me as you Can. And for me, that was it.
I mean, she was so phenomenal, and the studio agreed
and that came out in the movie.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So Barry, it would be so interesting to our audience.
And a note to me, And I've had to describe
this many times, but I would never be able to
describe it as well as you. The job of a producer.
When we talk about this person produced the movie, it's
easier for common folk to understand what a director does.
Sure tell me from your perspective, the job of a
(06:35):
producer Now you've been a studio executive to run studios.
You're producing from a studio platform. But when you're an
independent producer, what's your job? What do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
You can be creative as a studio executive, and many are.
It's just that it's more the job of a banker.
You're making financial decisions for an institution about whether you're
going to invest in a motion picture or not, and
in the elements that much a picture, and as a
stew executive, you have to make smart decisions. I like
to think in the history of the movies I made
but a studo executive, Men in Black, in the Line
(07:06):
of Fire, or of course one.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
By the way, to our listeners there you say that
it just rolls off your tongue, those are some of
the most special movies of a generation. In the Line
of Fire, I closed my eyes I think of it,
And the reason I remember that is it's the only
I think clin Exwood movie that was not a mal
Passo production, which was normally his production company was Our Columbia,
(07:29):
not Warner Brothers. Bro delivered all of Clinicxwood's movies historically.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yes, I believe he only did two movies outside of warners.
That's where his deal was. That's really smart. I think
the Eiger sanction may have been the other one could be.
But what happened was when we optioned that script with
Castle Rock Out of the Blue. My boss used to
work at Warner Brothers Markin And what was interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Who I went to college with.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Parenthetically, okay, well, Clint's agent actually called and said he's
really interested in the script. We were never even thinking
about Clint East, thinking about Redford Puccino, you know, who
would be the right age specific actor for this. And
when he called, it was just remarkable because he became
the movie, he embodied the movie. And to bring a
(08:12):
filmmaker actor, you know, of that level, you know, such
a great artist to that movie. It's the exact definition
of talent coming forward to enhance.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Something. I tell people this frequently, the reason we call
it show business. There's the show and there's the business.
You I think uniquely bridge both. You do have creative ability,
you do have creative eye, you do have creative talent.
You've got you do. And I'm telling our listeners you're
very thin, you don't have that gun, but you've got
(08:44):
you've got the muscle that can make you capable of
strong creative input and decisioning, but you're on the business
side of show business generally.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Correct, And going back to your question, I mean, what
does a producer do well? The real producer of a project.
You know, those people have to make those great creative decisions.
I admired greatly Jerry Bruckheimer when I worked with them
on Bad Boys, and I sort of modeled my career
after him. Not having the incredible fortune that Jerry's had,
but the idea of you know, what is the best
(09:15):
version of the script, who's the right person to execute it?
You know, there are many steps along the way that
you need to take, and that's when good decisions are helpful.
If you're a good producer, those are the most important
decisions you make from script to filmmaker to execute it
and so on, and that can be hit and missed,
but you try to make the best decisions possible. And
(09:37):
I feel very fortunate, whether it's a television series or
a feature, I've been fortunate to make some of those
good decisions, and I've really admired a lot of people's
careers along the way. You know, you and I were
talking about Jeffrey Katzenberg. It's a remarkable career. Michaeliser. We
just both read Barry Diller's book. It's incredible and you know,
to look at like Lawrence Gordon, who did so many
(09:57):
great movies, trading places, feel the dreams. You know, these
people have this ability to produce. It's like a traditional,
amazing ability to put things together, but put them together properly,
and even in the independent film business now putting together
Kiss the Spider Worm or any of these brilliant independent movies.
(10:18):
It's about those elements, in those elements clicking.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, and the click, if you will, in the Elements
and Kiss of the Spider Woman. That balance between fantasy
and reality is brilliant because you're taking the audience back
and forth correct and at the beginning it's a bit daunting,
not confusing it. I was able to follow it, but
once I got the thread and it just played so brilliantly,
(10:42):
and the difference between reality and fantasy.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, and Bill, you know, really toned those actors so well.
But Diego Luna is a remarkable actor. He grounds the movie.
It's a brilliant performance. You're compelled by the drama between
those two men. And then Tony tilla when Molina's carriacter
is able to tell you this magnificent story in such
an entertaining way. And obviously j Loo is just a
(11:06):
spectacle to see perform these songs and this music. So again,
like I thought, when you look at that movie and
it looked at how Bill executed, it defines sort of
those creative elements all coming together.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
You've also had a career arc that involved adaptation of
stories that are you know, well known, whether it's fairy
tales and enchanted to history and Washington Spies. How do
you balance the faithfulness, if you will, the loyalty to
the story that are so well known, while yet making
(11:43):
it something new and different. Correct, It's interesting to be
respectful of what was, you know. I always likened this
to a book I read years ago by Laura Hildebrant.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
When I read Seabiscuit, I tried to option that as Yeah,
I was one of like ten people who actually got
on the phone with her and.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Pitched her when I read it, I fancy it's one
of the best sports books I've ever read. Correct, And
what always amazed me is it's a sports book that
I already knew the ending to. Yes, yet it was spellbound. Yes,
So it was a way to tell a story that
I already knew. Yes, like the way she told it.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Well, that's where material often inspires you. It's the whole
reason for being in this industry. You know, you read
a script, you read a book as incredible as that,
and you think to yourself, my god, you know are unbroken.
You think I've broke. This story is just yearning to
be told, right, you know, going back to Turn Washington Spies,
my show runner Craig Silverstein, you know who really created
that show. The book was brilliant and the book unearthed
(12:37):
a really interesting thing about Washington's first spies. The story
had not been told. There have been two books written
about and Alexander Rose wrote the definitive book about it,
and that was the book that we optioned and worked
with for years. And I remember saying to Craig, you know,
it's so interesting. So much is known and so much
is unknown. And that's what the book proves. So much
was left secret and never told. Craig handled it really well.
(13:01):
He said, I'm going to entertain an audience. I'm going
to use the history, but I'm also going to presume
what happened in between, and that was brilliant, and that
was the narrative of that show. He took those characters,
created a story based on historical knowledge and what was
unknown we made up. But making up connected the dots
accurately to history. But you had to imagine interpretation and
(13:25):
American Revolution.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
You know.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Not everything was written and there were no interviews that
were filmed.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
That's right, listen. I felt that way about Hamilton. I
read the book years ago, right when I went to
see the show, and I love to tell this story.
I had no preconceived I had not read heard known
a thing about the show. I ran into a friend
of mine a week before in New York and I said,
(13:50):
what's going on? He said, oh, I just went to
this show last night at the Public. I said what show?
And he said Hamilton. I said, oh, I hadn't heard
about it, hadn't come to Broadway yet. And he said,
it's marvelous. You see it, he said, in fact, one
of my friends was one of the producers. I said, oh, well,
maybe I can get some house seats. Huh. So I
went and saw it with no preconceived sat in the
(14:11):
theater and lost my mind.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
LUs you might. Well, you know, Charlie Collier, our mutual friend,
he backed me on Turn Washington Spies from day one
with his executive Susic Fitzgerald. And they enjoyed the book
very much too, and they knew what it was. And
I remember talking to Charlie about the movie Lincoln, and ironically,
you know, when it came together, we cobbled together our
first sets from what Lincoln had shot in Virginia. That
(14:36):
movie is so brilliant. Spielberg is so brilliant in any
set that was left behind. I took advantage of, you know,
so from one great biopic film okay two hours, Yeah,
from Lincoln back to Washington. You know, we took advantage
of that opportunity. But again, all of this creative endeavor
requires backing. For example, Kylier backed us on four seasons
(14:58):
of that show. It's one of the things I'm most
proud of. And so it has to be where you
make a financial bet, and you make a good one,
but you have to believe in the underlying material are
the people who are executing.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So talking about backing, Barry, You've lived in film and television,
now Broadway, I had the pleasure of seeing just In
Time recently, and another little note to our listeners at
my funeral, Okay, Mac, the knife will that one of
the songs that will be played that's already been written
in It is my favorite song of literally all time.
(15:32):
So the idea of a show about Bobby Darren floated
my boat and it's a wonderful evening of theater and
I highly recommend it. What schlept you to Broadway?
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Well, all producers these days need to diversify. If you're
going to make it, you have to be producing film television.
I'm now in the podcast business. I have three projects
I'm developing for Broadway, two that I've invested in. You know,
I'm very excited about how well justin Time has done.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And it's like the hottest thing on Broadway.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yes, And the actual producer who put it together, Tom Curdiey,
you know, is the one who invited me in. And
I'm very fortunate and I watched that show come together
and that was a great experience for me, a really
good learning curve.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
And I Jonathan Groff in terms of finding talent that
you back.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, that is a very interesting story, I'll tell you
really quickly, and that is that Jonathan Groff was the
one who decided when he read Bobby Darren's son's book,
Dodd's book, he wanted to do the show as a
Broadway show, and it took years and he never really
could get his arms around it. But he told Tom
Curdigey the story about wanting to do it and how
he wanted to do it, and Tom flew out to
(16:38):
la and it took him a while, but he did
option the rights. So when we go back to that
conversation about what is a producer, there you go, that's
a great example of somebody who was aggressive, got it done,
finessed it, and then you look at that show, it
is remarkable, just in time, all the talent involved, director
did a great job. It's an amazing show and I'm
(16:59):
very fortunate to have been involved with it because of Tom.
And again this coming year, the Lost Boys, the same
thing where I became very interested in it because of
the writer, David horns b who's married to Emily de
Chanel who starred in Bones. And when I went to
see a run through of that show, it was just
I thought so compelling. So producing these days diversification looking
(17:21):
for new avenues to go down, and that's what I'm
currently doing.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
We've got more insights to share. You've thrived through basically
every major era, theatrical network, cable, now streaming. How do
(17:51):
you think streaming has changed the value of content? Again,
the business side of this. And I'm not only talking
about value in financial terms. I'm talking about value in
spiritual and cultural terms. I mean, sure, there's content that
is not profitable, you know, from a financial perspective, but
have moved mountains and then changed the world. So how
(18:13):
do you look at the value of content through the
lens of streaming.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Well, in the music industry, iTunes in Spotify have transformed
that industry, and streaming has transformed our industry. And also
the effect of streaming and then the timing of COVID
I think also affected our business in such a profound way.
Whereas it's very hard to get people into a movie
theater these days. You look at last weekend, the underperformance,
(18:41):
it happens in many weekends, many times, how many movies
succeed in the theater or not. Streaming is the industry.
So again, like you have twenty seven percent of people
watching YouTube. I think that's the number. Now YouTube is
TV today, I mean effectively.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
It's yes.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And I think you know, there's all these different platforms
that go on to their Apple TV or they're Roku
and they're through to the world, right, and so Netflix
profound difference. I mean that is, you know, history will
show that's the big game changer, same thing as Steve
Jobs introducing the iPhone. I mean that these are game
changer moments and it's never going.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
To go back.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
You can't hope that the theatrical business will be the
same anymore. So streaming is it and you know, whether
it's a network show. People don't want to watch Day
and Date anymore, and they've been profoundly changed by COVID
and by happing everything at their fingertips.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So although I think there's a fallback to you know,
hell Apple's doing you know, an episode a week, you know,
back to that, there is some desire. But I still
hear from many of my friends and you know, my
mother in law research is I'm going to wait till
all ten episodes have dropped and then I'll binge it.
Sure our habits have changed to that point. I'm liking
(19:52):
both ways, but I see the benefit in both ways.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
It's more of a diversification of how you need to
deliver it to the audience. Okay, so they are saying, okay,
we're going to just drop one a week, and the
reason for that is they want to satisfy their subs,
but they also want to satisfy an advertiser. They also
want to satisfy this notion of like teasing it out
and not having you just blow through it because they
can only produce so much, you know, and they want
to hold their subs. So there's a lot of reasons
(20:16):
why to do that. There are many things that we
just watched the minute they come on. But there are
so many times that we're now in these casual conversations
where somebody says, and I'll just say it's in my cue, yeah,
and or somebody said have you watched have you seen?
And you think to yourself, God, no, I haven't gotten
to that yet, and you can't believe you hadn't. And
you know, I have a friend who just watch adolescents okay,
(20:38):
and I was like, I couldn't wait for him to
finish it. But yeah, I mean I had to see
that right away. But then there's other things where I
haven't even gotten to them yet. And I was listening
to j Lo talk on Howard Sturning the other day
and she was talking about Peaky Blinders. I felt like, oh, yes,
that was such a great stream, you know, and that
was one show that I didn't get to until a
year after it.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Well, and you know the story, we've all got them.
My story of that was Breaking Bad. Everybody was talking
about Breaking Bad and I hadn't. I hadn't gone there.
I watched the first episode and I said, I don't
get it. That's not catching me. But you know what,
the whole army is not out of step. Everybody is raving.
I got to go try it again. I went back
in watched the first episode again, and then I was
(21:20):
hooked right once I did it again and I said, okay,
I get it. Yeah, then I was hooked. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
By the way, I don't mean to kill the theatrical business.
I just think that it's changed so much. And I
do think there's a world in which, you know, when
there's a theater in a mall and it's a multiplex,
and people have an experience of an evening that potentially
is a way to see the theatrical business continue. But
I think they have to put a lot of work
into what is that experience of going to a theater?
(21:45):
You know, should it just be that you pay for
a twenty dollars popcorn to get this thing from a
promotional item, or should it be that promotional items are
provided to people who go to the theater the first weekend.
There needs to be a lot of work done to
get people back to the theater experience, because it still
is the greatest way to watch a film, There's no doubt,
(22:07):
and I still love going to the movies, but I
will say, but two young kids, it is not the
easiest thing when they can just so easily stream. But
if the experience is good, then it could be something
where you can get people out. And I think that's
still going to have to have a hard look where
(22:27):
that can be enhanced.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So, Barry, we've talked about your experience in various distribution methods, channels,
et cetera. You talked about Steve Jobs and how he
changed the world. Yes, and I submit to you that
I've been saying to people over the last couple of years.
But basically last two years. In the arc of my career,
the three most important technological advances would have been the
(22:51):
introduction of mobile telephony. The mobile phone changed our lives, correct.
The second one would be the Internet full stop changed
our life correct. The third one in his AI. Now,
there's been a lot in between shiny new toys of
dot com and dot com and n fts and web
threes and all of those kinds of things. I'm not
saying they're not important and haven't been culturally relevant. But
(23:14):
the three things that I just said, mobile telephony, the Internet,
and AI. I'm going to talk about AI for a moment,
because just in this conversation, Barry, it's clear to me
that you respect talent and human craftsmanship. I'll go back
to mad Men for one second. I remember at the
last episode of mad Men that they did a big
thing here in la at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion. And
(23:35):
what Matt Weiner did that I thought was so incredible.
He invited all the crafts people up on the stage.
You're there celebrating the history of this show, game changing
as it was. And of course he had John Hamm
and the actors and astresses, but he put the crafts
people up because the crafts people in that show delivered.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Oh yeah, look at the props, look at the set deck,
look at everything.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It was perfect. It was perfect that human craftsmanship. Is
AI going to be doing that now? Or are we
going to lose that human craftsmanship? Are we going to
lose that ability? You know, I've said this to studio executives,
and I'm going to ask you this question. So I'm
giving you a compound question. Number one, that sort of
craftsmanship is AI going to replace that? Number one? And
(24:21):
number two, you've proven over the years of your career
that you've got a pretty good gut. You've made very
very good decisions in terms of the products that you've
green lit, and projects you've green lit and things you've done.
That comes from your gut. Right, But with the advent
of data and information that we all have access to today, right,
(24:42):
the predictive modeling that can be done, where does the
data come across to the gut? Okay, I think j
Lo is the right person for this because it's my gut,
or it's because I've scraped the Internet through an AI
agent and that's what I've been told.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Well, I think, first of all, Anybody who thinks AI
isn't going to take over certain positions in all industries
is crazy.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It will.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It has already. I'm really worried about people graduating college
and looking for jobs. It's going to affect the workforce tremendously,
whether it's from medical research to engineering to any and
every job. You know, except for the most practical hands
on plumber. It's going to affect every single industry.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And the prep for the plumber will be done through technology. Correct,
You're right, there's going to need to be hands on,
although with robotics maybe not.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But yeah, but I still think, you know, in my industry,
it's a very creative industry. I don't know that AI
can ever do exactly what a director does. Okay. AI
could invent an actor. AI can invent a set, you know,
and the more we have digital sets, the more that's
going to be profoundly impacted. But you know, I think
these hands on artists, from set decorator to props to
(25:54):
all of it has still needs to be human beings
and still should be human beings. It is an art
form artists should create. Will AI write things, yes, will
AI execute things?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (26:04):
But I still think this is a human endeavor, an
intelligent human endeavor where creatives will not go away, but
will they be assisted by will they be helped by?
Can AI take over certain jobs? Absolutely, that's frightening. And
you know, when I have gone on perplexity to do research,
it's remarkable. I mean, do you need research or anymore?
(26:26):
Perhaps not, because the information comes back to you not
in a week or four days, but in seconds, in seconds,
and creating material, some accurate, some not so much. But
what's incredible is that how quickly it moves, and how
quickly it's going to move into every single industry.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Well, and also let's talk about talent. You talk about
young people coming out of school and if they're going
to be in creative industries or whatever jobs they're going
to be seeking. You're right, it's different. I had the
good fortune of listening to Jenson Wang, the CEO of Video,
a couple of months ago. He made this point, and
I've been talking about it frequently. He looked out at
(27:03):
an audience of about seven hundred and fifty one thousand
people and he said, you folks, your job won't be
replaced by AI, but it will be replaced by somebody
who understands AI. So note to self, get educated first
and foremost.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Well said, no, I think that's the message. Definitely, get educated,
know how to use it and watch it grow and
what it does.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
And not as a crutch, as a tool, so it
should be empowering. I hope it's always just a tool, right.
It doesn't take my place right, Okay, but it is
a massively impactful tool, let's face it, and it's getting
better and better and better.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, the network effect is coming true in this case
more than ever. You know, I learned this early when
you understood how Google was able to create the best
search engine in the world. It was the network effect.
I presume that's obvious. But the more you utilize Google,
the better the search gets. Yes, you're educating system. Well,
(28:01):
that's what we're watching happen real time with AI at
a level. That is the scraping that goes on.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I think the thing for me that I still like
to adhere to and maybe I'll go to my grave
with this one is about thirty two years ago I
helped really great creative Barbara Morgan create the Awesome Film Festival,
which we created for writers because there have been so
many director centric film festivals. We did this for writers.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Now there are many you were IRL before our IRL
was the thing to do. There you go go ahead going.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
But every year I went to the festival and the
more writers that we brought. The early adopters were Shane Black,
Akiva Goldsman, JJ Abrams. You'd listen to them talk about
what they had created, what they worked on over the years.
The audience that would come, the people who would, you know,
admire the work done, and then all the writers over
the years that have come to that. AI cannot be
(28:51):
jj Abrams. AII cannot be Jim Brooks. AI cannot be
Norman Lear, AI cannot be Mel Brooks. I mean, I've
interviewed some of the people that I'm talking about, and
it's really remarkable. You can't imagine how this creative came
to be from these people and you look at the
work and you marvel at it. I don't know. I mean, sure,
(29:14):
artificial intelligence can create some things and will and is,
but nothing will replace the genius of these kind of artists.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
The writer's room concept is that the interaction, the human
experience that you think. I mean, I'm asking because I
marvel at the creative process from that perspective and the writer's.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Room, I get the writer's room is remarkable when there's
a showrunner in great writers, okay, and how they inspire
each other, how they pitch each other, how they get accepted,
they're denied, kickback, go away, come back? You know like
that process you know that happens in a writer's room
of a television series or a Broadway show being rewritten,
(29:56):
you know, based on director's notes and so on and
previews and all that. You know, that's that is a
creative process that is not going to go away?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Will it be.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Assisted by AI? Could AI create a store? You know, look,
could you put in enough information where it will then
kick back something? I was the person right, But it's
drawing off the genius of these people. Absolutely, that's what
it's doing. So the genius that comes forward is always
going to inspire. And look at what Lin Manuel created
(30:25):
with Hamilton that you just spoke of. I mean, come on,
that is just a brilliant piece of theater that has
stood the test of time for a good reason. You know, AI,
I don't think will create that, okay, because that requires thought, invention, reinvention, passion, music, passion,
all of it. And so again I do love the
(30:47):
creative process augmented. Yes, I hope that all of these
geniuses are still the ones that are inventing what we appreciate.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Well, you bring me to a good question. The advent
of the Internet originally was from my view, one of
the things it did was democratization of content, correct distribution creation.
There was no longer somebody with a green light switch
that would determine whether you could get what you've created
correct out into the world. Yes, everyone has their own
(31:16):
green light switches.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
And the algorithm that pushes to you based on your
interests is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
But we're living in a world where anybody can write, shoot,
distribute from their own phone. We don't need, you know,
studio heads anymore to say yes or no to get
a project made. How does that democratization excite you as
a creator? As somebody who's been you know, you've had
the green light, You've had the switch that you can
flip to say yes sir RCT. Now you don't. You
(31:41):
don't need somebody to do that for you anymore. And
if I'm a young person coming up, I certainly don't.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, in terms of the independent filmmaker, all of these
tools make it easier. You're still going to require for
most big movies and television series financing. Still you don't
have to go to somebody for an answer. Okay, So
the more you do the creative, the more the creative
is laid out, the better it's going to help you
going forward. But I do think it's still a process
where you need to create something very strong to move forward.
(32:10):
But yes, the fact that somebody can shoot a movie
in an iPhone and get actors who are willing and
get crew that's willing to do it for a price,
that is a game changer in terms of how we
look at technologies impact on this industry.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
Good Company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
So we're at a point in time where the conversations
around brand partnerships and storied commerce are becoming very, very
important in the market. And for so many years we've
talked about Madison and Vine or Hollywood Boulevard meets Madison
Avenue and the idea of a different model. Well, you
(33:00):
will remember this not because you were around doing it.
You're not that old, neither am I. But historically most
people don't realize that Sigourney Weaver is famous for being
an actress. But what we really should focus on is
Sigourney Weaver's father, Sylvester Pat Weaver, who was a television
executive in the fifties, and what he did was change
the face of television Texago presents even different. He came
(33:23):
from the advertising industry, and he understood the concept of
picking up Life magazine or Look magazine or Time magazine
and having not one advertiser, not Westinghouse Theater, but multiple
advertisers in a magazine. The idea of television. In the
early days, the advertisers controlled it. There was a meeting
that happened. I always kid around and said love to
(33:44):
have been in that room when that meeting occurred, where
somebody said to the advertisers, No, no, no, you're not
in charge anymore. We are. We're just going to take
your money and we're going to sell you spots, but
we're going to determine the content. The flip happened when
Pat Weaver realized the idea for the Today The Today
Show and the Tonight Show, which he created. Was the
(34:05):
first time that networks could afford to own the program
because they were cheaper to produce, and so you didn't
have to rely on the advertiser. And you turned it
around and you said, we're going to do a Today Show,
We'll own it, We'll sell you advertising spots. The game's
changing now we're in charge of the content. And that
was the change in television. So it's a little known
fact that Sigourney Weaver, I guess deserves Hollywood Royalty for
(34:28):
her own wonderful achievements, but for that of her father
and changing television. We are all the way back to
the beginning now, however, Barry, where brands now want to
have more to say about content and they want to
be involved more in the creation, the production and the
financing of content. You've seen evolution in your career from
(34:48):
product placement to full brand integration. You know, talk about
men in black. Tell me a better product integration than
ray band sunglasses.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
It was great emilies to watch ray band sunglasses. I
wish I had actually done more.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
But do you think about that as the quintessential you know?
I still use that, yeah, okay in life, that line,
you know, But where we are today, when you know,
think of like sports, Okay, when the NBA, the NBA,
the NHL, the NFL getting them involved in content creation,
(35:22):
not just you know, look at F one and what
just happened in a movie that's brillion movie. You know
all about product Yes, I mean down to the uniforms
and you know, having Geico on on the uniforms.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Jerry Breckenmer is brilliant. That's the ultimate marketing tool. You
know what's on that car exactly, all the sponsors he
put together.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
You know, there's a saying that every brand wants to
be a studio. Now are you navigating that? How are
you seeing that?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I am. I'm trying to access that. As a matter
of fact. You know a friend of mine that you
should interview Michael Sugar as a company, Sugar twenty three.
They're doing oh Michael, Well, yeah, they're doing branding and
it's a very smart move because they recognize that brands
are are going to more and more want to be
involved with content. I think it's actually a good thing,
I really do, because it's going to help any way
to bring more money into the industry is going to
(36:08):
help the industry create, you know, and I think Skydance
is a great company that's well funded that's going to
help this business that's already going to help Paramount pictures.
But I think mostly the idea of brands. Why shouldn't
BMW sponsor a show that can enhance their product? Any
movie I've done, I've looked for product placement. I loved
when I made Like Mike that it was enhancing for
(36:29):
the NBA. I mean, there's still kids who walk up
to Mar's chestnut and scream and yell at him. And
the brand follow through into our industry is crucial for
the industry. But also it's great for those brands.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
And there's so.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Many great opportunities to you know, have that coffee brand
or that car and so on in this industry, and
people are getting very accustomed to it. And I do
think the idea of presentational is important too. I think
these brands should do that more and more. They should
back a film, back a show, let it be presentational.
And again, like, I don't mean to detegrate anything, but
(37:04):
do I need to see a thirty or sixty second
spot with people dancing about rabel Sis. No, I'd much
prefer you.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Know, I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
There's always going to be that traditional commercial, okay, But
the idea of brands integrating with entertainment as long as
they're not changing or influencing how it's executed.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I think the idea of it is so important to
the industry, and it is going to be a thing
more and more, especially now in the podcasting industry, all
forms of entertainment. Why not let it be presentational.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
That way thousand percent, Barry. Before I get to do
my fun part of this, the lightning realm, where I
get to ask you some questions that we haven't talked about.
I kind of like to end with this, especially in
your case, because you've done this over again. I'll use
the expression of the arc of your career. You've stayed
very relevant. Okay, You've had a long and a wonderful career.
But here we are in twenty twenty five. You've got
(37:57):
a hip movie and a hip Broadway show. So I
would say you're about as relevant as you can get.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
My ten year old son always says me, Dad, how
old are you again? And I say twenty He goes, Dad,
stop lying. I said, well, I feel that way, okay,
so why don't you start asking me how I feel?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
There you go, that's a better question. What advice would
you give to young leaders today in marketing and media
entertainment who are trying to stay relevant. As we've said,
storytelling formats and storytellers are multiplying, and there may be
some that aren't even people. Is there a bit of
advice you'd give to somebody.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
The best advice I can always give to people is
to be forward thinking. Try not to think in the now.
Try to think ahead, you know, and you can look
back in history and you can learn so much, you know,
And the new JFK book that I'm reading, I was
just thinking so much about somebody who is transitioning in
his life, and somebody who wanted to grow so much
beyond where he was, and he was trying to mature.
(38:51):
He's trying to change his points of view. So I
always try to tell people find some forward thinking touchdowns.
Try to look forward, what's being invented, what's ahead, and
how can you be involved with that with your interest.
Be forward thinking, do as much research about what is
around the corner, and there are things to read and
there's knowledge to get about that, And I think that's
(39:13):
how you have to look at your next step. In
my career, I was always looking at the next thing,
whether it's the next job, whether it's the next opportunity,
whether it's the next technology. I always wanted people to
I used to say, enhance my brain. I wanted to
learn as much as possible. And I think at this
day and age especially, you have no choice. You have
no choice. You have to be forward thinking. So that's
the best advice I can give my kids. You know,
(39:34):
what do you think for my daughter's share? Is going
to be the thing you're interested in tomorrow? You know
what's it going to be five years from now? And
the more you think like that, the more you can
be prepared.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
No doubt. Okay, Barry, here we go on some lightning round.
If you could give your younger self one piece of
a guidance or advice, what would.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
It be Think twice good.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
This is always a hard question to ask because you know,
become Sophie's choice in many cases. But what's your favorite
film that you've ever made or one you wish you
had made?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
My favorite film I ever made was Enchanted. I loved
the creative of it. I loved the premise of it.
It also gave a Disney permission to take all of
their titles and make them live action. But I honestly,
I just loved the transition of that and the story
and the execution. It was all a wonderful experience. In
(40:27):
terms of the movie, I always wish that I had
made It's pretty simple. I was always impacted and would
go back to two movies. I'm sorry I have to
pick it because you can pick two sure, Star Wars
and The Godfather, because the creative, the invention, the just
basic storytelling, the family feeling of it. Both both movies, Yeah,
(40:50):
were remarkable and some great work, and it defined I
think script to execution.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
What is your greatest professional fear?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Professional fear? I don't have a great professional fear. I
really want to say my greatest fear is Alzheimer's or
early said dementia. Okay, I want to be thinking and
learning and growing every single day.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
And finally, Barry, and you could answer this with more
than one, but was there a particular mentor early in
your career and was there a particular piece of advice.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I was very fortunate early in my career and on
throughout to have met Larry Gordon, the producer I mentioned
before who produced some brilliant movies, was a studio executive.
Did what I sort of wanted to do in this industry.
And I think Larry was the most important because he
was always available to me. He would always offer me feedback,
(41:45):
and sometimes it would be harsh, and sometimes it would
not be what I'd want to hear, but he was learned,
he was willing to offer feedback and someone and I did.
Obviously I was influenced by Jerry Barkheimer as well. Larry
was always there for me. It's interesting that you asked
that question. When I wanted to join the academy, who
do they go to? Larry and Jerry. So it's important
(42:08):
to have mentors. It's important to have people that.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Look, those are two mentors that you're very fortunate to
have had folks like that as mentors.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I'll tell you tangentile thing which you may not put
on this podcast, but what Larry has always done to
me very successfully is he has done more practical jokes
to me that have worked because I'm so influenced a
mentored by him that I would always go for a
hook line and sinker. I was in New York one night.
I've gone out to dinner with Ron Meyer and his
wife and a very influential table of people that perhaps
(42:37):
I shouldn't have been at somehow he caught wind of it.
He called me up and he said, my god, what
did you say to ron and Meyer's wife. It's all over.
You're in a whole hell of a trouble. You'll never
be working at CIA again. What are you talking about?
So immediately, I, at like eight in the morning, I'm
on the phone trying to find him to apologize. And
(42:59):
I just got on the phone and I apologize for
about five minutes, and he kept trying to interrupt me,
and I said, please, Ronnie, don't interrupt me. I must apologize.
I said, I don't know what I said. I know
I sat down and we talked and so on. But
you know, I'm so sorry. And he's on on and
the whole time. When I found out later, he's just
sort of covering the phone laughing because he knows something
(43:21):
has happened, but he doesn't know what.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
I love that story.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
And then he finds out that Larry put me up
to it. He wasn't even expecting the phone call.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
When I made the movie Last Action Hero, which was
a huge flop, because you have to have one or
two before you succeed, Larry called me and he said,
where are you, jose And I said, oh, I'm I'm
going to be going to the premiere in New York
of Last Action. Here. He goes, where are you staying?
And I said, Oh, I'm staying at the Four Seasons. Really,
that's a nice hotel. What florie on? I said, I
think I'm on twenty three. He goes, that's high enough.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Very good. Johnson. On that note, I think we're going
to bring this conversation to an end, but I want
to underscore something, Barry. I was looking forward to this
and you didn't let me down. This was a trait
and a tribute both to be able to have this conversation.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Oh, thank you, and I admire you and I admire
your impact on this industry and how you are there
to really put people forward and think forward and know
how to manage their industry and their work. It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Thank you, Barry Josephson.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Thanks Michael Casson.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Good Company is brought to you by three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and Head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Episodes are produced and edited by Mary Doo.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Thanks for joining us, We'll see you next time.
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