May 21, 2025 • 39 mins
Under her decisive leadership, she has transformed Tubi from a once-underdog platform into a record-breaking force, redefining the streaming landscape with its free, ad-supported model. From leveraging cutting-edge data-powered advertising, to launching fan-fueled initiatives like STUBIOS, to pioneering shoppable moments that merge the worlds of entertainment and commerce… she’s transforming the rules of engagement. This episode unpacks how Anjali is not just keeping pace but setting the tempo for the future of streaming.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We're in an attention economy, and if the next best
use of your time is you just open up your
phone and get on TikTok or engage in some other
free content, then we better find a way to make
Hollywood produce content that easy to access.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:48):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome to Good Company today.
I'm thrilled to have with me a true trailblazer. Angulie
sued the CEO of too Be. Under her decisive leadership,
she has transformed TOUB from a once underdog platform into
a record breaking force, redefining the streaming landscape with its
(01:12):
free ad supported model, from leveraging cutting edge data powered
advertising to launching fan fueled initiatives like studios to pioneering
shoppable moments that merge the worlds of entertainment and commerce.
She is transforming the rules of engagement. Today, she'll share
her insights on everything from the role of AI, to
(01:32):
the future of user experience, to strategic growth through creative
alliances and the like. Prepare for a conversation that's both
poignant and practical, offering insights for every decision maker navigating
this hyper competitive landscape. So let's dive in and discover
how Angeleie is not just keeping pace but setting the
tempo for the future of streaming. Ajulie, thanks for joining
(01:55):
me today.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Thank you Michael. It's lovely to be here with you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I want to dive right in. I love the word studio.
It's one of those that caught my attention. So I'm
going to start with you know, a little bit of
a word game year. But go ahead and tell us
please about the studio initiative and as well kind of
weaving in the importance of content partnerships to to be,
but to you personally, based on your experience, You've had
(02:22):
some great experience in the video ecosystem before to Be,
and you know, I'm so anxious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Now, yeah, sure so studios.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It's the Word to Be in the Word studio and
it is the first fan fueled studio in streaming that
to be launched last year. It's a platform and mechanism
for any creators and storytellers to submit their ideas for
green light by to Be, and we use fan engagement
(02:56):
as a sort of metric to decide if fans are
excited about a specific idea or a creator, then we
will use that to ultimately green light a select slate
of content. We produce that content, we fund it, we
distribute it on our platform, and we actually partnered with
Isa Ray and her company to mentor a lot of
(03:20):
these creators to help set them up for success.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Now, why are we doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We're doing it because what we hear from our viewers
and audience, particularly younger audiences, is they want more diversity
in storytelling. They want to hear from smaller, independent creators.
They want to feel like they have a direct voice
in the stories that they see. And you know, Michael, like,
that's in many ways what you already get and social
(03:45):
media on YouTube and in UGC content, but in Hollywood,
you know, we haven't really seen that, and so this
is kind of a sort of a first attempt by
to be to really bridge what I would call the
creator economy with Hollywood, and I think we think there's
a lot of work and experimentation to do here still,
but super excited about the potential.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And what you talked about, Angelie reminds me of the
early days of the Internet when people talked about the
democratization of content and the idea. And you'll certainly appreciate
this being on.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
The studio side, if you or the studio side, if
you will, the old idea of who had that green light,
you know, the green light, And I've always looked at
it through the lens of, by the way, a different
topic on a continuum from green light to red carpet.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I've always wanted to understand that journey from green light
to red carpet. And what you've just talked about is
green light in a different way through studios, right, I mean,
this is the ultimate democratization.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, it is. And you know it's funny.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So I spent about a decade before to be at Vimeo.
It's an online video platform where all we tried to
do was lower the barriers to helping more creators produce
quality content because there was a point in time where
it was just so expensive, so time consuming, so difficult
to do. I think between AI, between technology and software,
(05:09):
that has gotten easier, but on the flip side, you
still have the green light process and the reality is
that in Hollywood, the way most content is greenlight is
driven based on knowing the right people, relationships, access, and
there is a need to kind of lower those barriers
as well. It's something that we really want to do.
(05:30):
And I love your framing of green light to red
Carpet because one of the things that has surprised me
most with working with a lot of more digitally native
creators because we are doing that now more and more,
is that for many of them, they really do want
a path to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They want a path to the red carpet.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's an incredible milestone and achievement that feels very hard
to achieve and navigate. And so I wouldn't pretend to
say too be has figured out how to go from
green light to red carpet for in a democratized way
for creators, but we are very committed to figuring it out.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well you're greasing the skid, So I'll tell you that much.
And that's a meaningful part of the equation. And the
other thing is when you looked at the universe of
creators and the creator economy earlier in the game, I
think everybody's goal was, boy, I want to get to
have a TV show. Yeah, And you think about that
(06:28):
now and you think of some of these creators, they're
a lot better off on the platforms like to Be
and other places than traditional TV show. And I understand
you might push back on that and say, well, what,
this is a traditional TV show, But I don't think
of it that way.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I don't think of that way either.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Honestly, I think of it as to me, it's about
graduating storytelling and graduating storytellers. And I'll give you an
example of sort of a recent project that to Be did.
We did an original movie called Sidelined and it's based
on a watpad novel that had you know, thirty million followers,
(07:06):
and we it's starring Noah Back, who is a TikTok
influencer in his first movie. And you know, that's an
example where it is this is Hollywood produce content. It's
a traditional movie format, but it's at least leveraging some
of the more creator aspects of what's happening in culture.
And I have to tell you the result blew me Away.
(07:28):
We had over ten million viewers on that title. It's
one of the highest performing on TV ever. We had
tens of thousands of fans who were clipping, you know,
clips from the movie and sharing on social media, getting
hundreds of millions of views. That helped drive audience to
that content. And you know, I think we're figuring it out,
but we're proving that you can bridge these things. If
(07:50):
you talk to someone like Noah, he's a prolific creator,
but this is his opportunity to go to sort of
Hollywood into the red carpet and that graduate into longer
form storytelling. And I think that that's it's a really
compelling thing, and I think you're going to see more
of it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
One of the stats that blew me away recently was
that YouTube I think it was there are over one
thousand YouTube creators now that have each have over ten
million followers. It's crazy, right, So, like, and you think
about that, and you think about how most of Hollywood,
you know, we're doing a slate of five films, you know,
(08:27):
or ten films, and you just think about the difference there,
and that's you know, we are going to witness that
coming together in the next few years one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And you know, if you look at sure, he's a
unicorn and maybe the unicorn, but you look at Jimmy Donaldson,
you look at mister beast and what he's talking about
in terms of valuation of his company, should he go
public or whatever. You know, one has to stand back
and tat tension.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It's in the billions. It's a big one.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
As I've learned working with big companies, it's not interesting
till it's got to be. He's got to be it.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It does.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
It's all good, all, Julie. I want to switch because
you know, and I continue to say this, the drinking
game at the intersection that I live in and you
live in, which is the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment,
sports and technology. We'll get to sports with the Super
Bowl in a little bit, but let's talk about the
drinking game at that intersection with AI, the intersection you
(09:25):
said it earlier, of tech and culture. Where do you
see the role of AI in that coming together of
tech and culture, because can you be more culturally relevant
through the benefit of AI, Perhaps can it help you
read the room better trying to reach the consumer. It's
really a question that I know you're grappling with, but
(09:47):
everybody is grappling with.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think AI is an incredibly transformative technology and with
that comes in men's opportunity as well as risks that
we have to thoughtfully navigate. And I think we have
too be are very cog of the role that we
play sitting at the intersection of Hollywood and tech to
use AI in ways that are positive for storytelling. I
believe there's tons of opportunity here. I'll give you even
(10:11):
just like a couple of different distinct buckets. One is
most people feel, like, you know, we live in a
world where there's a paradox of choice.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
There's too much to watch. But then also it's too
hard to find something to watch.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And AI can definitely help us understand content and improve
content discovery. You know, if you think about the way
that we find something to watch today, we're like sitting
on our couch using our remote to like, you know,
search in a grid based on type of you know,
category or genre or title, and that's just feels antiquated.
(10:45):
Given what technology should do. I should be able to say,
here's the mood I'm in, here's how I want to feel,
and a streaming service should be able to connect me
with the right content to do that. So that's like
a very near term use of AI.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Umb old fashioned I have people for that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, not everybody does, and and you know it's
funny because I totally believe that you would. But so
that's you know, that's one area where we see immediate utility.
Another area is AI can be used to make it faster,
cheaper to create good quality content. A great example of
(11:20):
stock footage. You know, before, if you wanted to have
a scene in a movie where you had the skyline
of New York, you had to go search for the
right footage. You had to pay thousands of thousands of
dollars to license that content.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Now you can just generate, you know, whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And I think that the idea though, is that you know,
in the past, if you were a creative and you
had an idea for a movie or a show or
a scene, think about all the steps and the money
and time it would take to make that a reality
and what AI can do generative AI in particular, is
it right so that there is a world where you
can accelerate creativity, democratize creativity.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And to the creator. And I look at this through
the lens of my experience working with creators. You know, personally,
I happen to be on the board of a company
called spotter As I think, yes, and I've gotten underneath
but creator economy in a unique way through that lens.
And believe me, the tools that they need, the creators
(12:15):
to be able to advance their craft and to be
able to create more to satisfy the demand of these
people with ten million plus subscribers that you talked about,
AI is their best friend. There is no doubt about
it used properly.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I completely believe that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And you know I've flip it to the other side,
which is for advertisers and brands.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I also think there's a ton of value in AI.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And you know, one of the things we just released too,
just we do an annual streaming report. We do a
survey with the Harris Poll and we get a bunch
of insights about what gen z cares about and how
people are feeling and there's some really good nuggets in there.
But one of the things that's interesting is that a
lot of younger audiences, you know, they're used to ads,
they're on Instagram, they're used to to ads being personal
(13:00):
and targeted and useful for them. In streaming, we have
not gotten there. Most audiences and viewers do not find
the ads that they see on television or streaming to
be personalized or particularly bespoke to them.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I do think one of the reasons for that
is just again.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The cost and the time to create content, to create
branded content, to make ads, and then to be able
to do that, you know, in different iterations, and make
it dynamic and targeted. I think that's a whole body
of opportunity which is good for brands and advertisers because
it will increase the ROI of their advertising. It's also
good for the consumer because now the ad goes from
(13:38):
being a nuisance or feeling irrelevant to you to suddenly
being helpful and makes the entire product experience.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Exactly, exactly right and delivered to you in an environment
that you have an expectation of. It's what I used
to say about discovery, whether it was better homes and
Garden Channel or DIY not another place I don't spend
a lot of time, okay, But the truth is, when
(14:06):
you're wearing those environments, you fully expected marketing at you
because you wanted to be able to buy the goods
and services that you were seeing. You go in with
the expectation of being marketed to. You can find that
consumer who's actually interested in what you're going to try
and sell them. So you know your point is so
well taken. Let's switch gears and I'm going to throw
(14:27):
you a long pass here. You guys killed it with
the Super Bowl. I think you broke every streaming record
for sure in terms of the performance, But talk a
little bit about how you felt not only shattering kind
of streaming records, but also showcasing what a Super Bowl
could be from the your standpoint, from the user experience,
(14:50):
you know, with advanced digital strategies that you were able
to deploy on too be. I mean, it was really
a smash for you guys.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I appreciate that, obdibly proud of what Fox and two
Be came together to deliver for audiences, for Americans, for advertisers,
and I think for the league. We were able to
deliver the most streamed Super Bowl in history. We saw
a much bigger share of our audience being younger, Like
(15:18):
forty percent of viewers who streamed the Super Bowl on
twob were ages eighteen to thirty four, and half of
them were women, which is just showing you that the
opportunity to broaden reach and drive an incremental audience. And
I think the key insight for us there was that,
you know, there are plenty of folks that are hardcore,
you know, football fans, They're going to watch the Super
(15:39):
Bowl for the game. There's also millions and millions of
Americans who maybe are more interested in the Super Bowl
as a cultural moment, maybe more interested in the Super
Bowl for the ads or the halftime show. And we
really tried to build not just a technical and streaming capability,
but programming around that. We had a red carpet where
(15:59):
we featured and celebrity around the game.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I do want to yeah, a Julie, I do want
to talk about that because your collaboration there with shop
Sense was really effective from what I understand, and the
ability to do that and have the shoppable experience when
we're talking everywhere we look about retail media, that's retail media, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I can tell you I think for us it
was about really like broadening and expanding reach programming around
that sort of cord cutter, cord never younger audience who
maybe not the hardcore sports fan. And then I think
the last component was access. You know two these free
it's frictionless that we worked really hard to deliver a
(16:41):
super high quality stream in four K, low latency. We
wanted it to feel incredibly delightful and easy, and I
think what you saw and the reason that the numbers
look so so strong and.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That you know, the feedback by the way, I think
probably the thing I was.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Most nervous about was, you know, if you have its
technical problem during the game, we all know you get crucified,
but you get crucified by consumers, especially on social media.
And we had something like ninety five percent positive sentiment
or or sort of neutral positive sentiment on social and
so many, so many people.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I live in an eighty twenty world. If you told
me eighty percent, i'd i'd I'd be high fiving you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So it was pretty amazing to see. And so many
people wrote in or posted about how they just really
felt like they got an amazing experience for free and
that that really mattered. And I think you're going to
see more and more of that in premium content and
sports as it relates to shoppable experience and our integration
with shopsin's. I think, you know, obviously, what we wanted
(17:43):
to do there was we're programming a red carpet, We're
talking about fits in fashion, and we wanted to find
brands that we could partner with and find ways to
create that.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Call to action, that shoppable call to action.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And I'd say, you know, from everything that we saw,
we did deliver really compelling results for our brand partners.
You know, they were able to track how the viewer
engaged in the content and then ultimately purchased, and to
your point, on retail media networks like this is obviously
the kind of direction the world is going. I used
to work at Amazon on the e commerce side, and
(18:15):
I was also a former head of marketing, a CMO,
and I know firsthand how incredibly painful it is when
you're trying to you know, you're trying to spend your
marketing budget and your CEOs, you know, your CFO is
asking you about return on investment and how you track it,
and it's so hard to really understand that. And I
think in streaming, because we've traditionally been you know, very
(18:37):
brand focused, and because there's so much fragmentation now in
an attention and audience, it's just gotten really hard for marketers.
So I think our goal here is like how do
we use e commerce data shoppable data, but also how
do we just aggregate and make it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Easier for marketers to track results.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
My bet is that you're going to just see more
and more dollars move towards that kind of investment, and
we want to be part of that.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break, we've got more insights to
share it. I remember a story in the industry when
one guy used to talk about addressable advertising, you know,
(19:23):
in its rudimentary form, and the example he always used
was poladant. And I have nothing against polydet but he said,
only eight percent of the world is toothless, and when
you do a polyodt ad, you're going large to one
hundred percent. Just find me the toothless, you know, perays
remember that it was like fun, find me the toothless.
(19:46):
The people who actually need this product, and we're getting
closer to that finally, I think. But An Julie, you know,
one of the funny questions I want to ask you
is the evolution of ad supported the model ad supported model,
Because I was about to say a different word, and
I said this earlier kind of reminds me of television.
When I grew up, we put rabbit ears on the box,
(20:09):
or we put an antenna on the roof before we
had cable, and I got to watch Channel two, four, five, seven, nine,
and eleven and thirteen in Los Angeles, and I didn't
have to pay anybody to do that. I just had
to give my attention to the commercial messages that were
being sent my way, or at least they hoped I
gave my attention. And that was called ad supported television.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, what's old is new it appears, But
you know, I think you're absolutely right. Think about the
history of broadcast television, free ad supported.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Think about social.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Media, where actually most people are spending their hours in
time also free and ad supported. So you know, it's
funny because I think there is a lot of almost
a surprise around free ad supported streaming. But obviously to
be has believed in that model for over a decade
and on our founder Varhad was a big champion when
it wasn't pop bueler to be. But I think it's
(21:02):
fairly obvious at this point, or should be, that we're
in an attention economy and if the next best use
of your time is you just open up your phone
and get on TikTok or engage in some other free content,
then we better find a way to make Hollywood produce
content that easy to access. I will say one of
(21:23):
the things I've observed in the industry, and it's an
area that to be continues to have to sort of
help clarify, is there is a difference between what I
would call like a fast live linear channels, So that's
like someone going into an episode guide and sort of
tuning into a channel of content. There's a difference between
that and then VOD content on demand content that is free.
(21:47):
Some platforms have really leaned into live linear channels, which
is more like broadcast television. Twob's momentum and success is
actually not coming from that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
For us. It's on demand. Think of it like a
free Netflix.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
It's just the ability to find and discover movies and
TV series that you're really excited to watch, and that
being free and ad supported.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And I do think we're fairly unique.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In that way. Ninety five percent of all of our
viewing is on demand. I suspect that pretends to a
future where you're just going to see again consumer expectations
are going to be I don't want to pay for
a Netflix like experience, and I'm happy to watch ads
if it's delivered to me in a personalized, frictionless way
in exchange, full stop.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And I agree with you, And I also think I
have a business principle that I apply to a lot
of different circumstances, and that is finding a way to
use these three words in the same sense fragmentation, consolidation,
and efficiency. So for me, we're in a market today
in streaming which is wildly fragmented and therefore less efficient.
(22:56):
If we can figure out a way to consolidate to
make it more efficient, that fragmentation will go away and
people will be happier, both on the buyer side, the
consumer and the seller side, the two b's of the world.
So I do see that happening as well. I'm curious
your view of that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I completely agree. I would just add I think of
it less. I mean it is consolidation, but I think
of it as aggregation, and I.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Think about by the way better.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
What I think two B has done is we built
a bit of a flywheel that where we get these
economies of scale.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We have the largest library, largest collection.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Of movies and TV series, We have over one hundred
million monthly active viewers. And what happens is we just
get better and better with scale at hearing what audiences want,
listening to them, giving them more of that. We then
use the data and insights to improve the experience, and
we just get more and more efficient. I suspect the
sort of winners in the attention economy in the future
(23:55):
will be the companies and platforms that figure out how
to aggregate at scale and do it in a way
that puts consumers and viewers first.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Ajulie, I like to learn, and you just taught me
something because I have talked about consolidation, fragmentation efficiency for
a long time, but I am going to add aggregation
into it because you're absolutely right, that is a very
good point, and I will give you credit for that
for some period of time. Then I'm just going to
git Yeah, exactly I'm going to, you know, probably two
weeks and then I'm going to say I made it up.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's all good.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Let's switch to that user experience part of this, Anjulie,
because I know that's important to you and to too be.
But I know it's important to you because you and
I've had conversations about this one on one to personalize
it and really bring it to you. You know, I
chatted to Malcolm Gladwell a long time ago and he
said to me once, what people are looking for in
(24:47):
life is a frame. This was a long time ago,
like eighteen or nineteen years ago. People are still looking
for a frame. But maybe that frame is around viewing.
Maybe that frame is that personalized experience to deliver to
me what I really want. You said it earlier, but
how are you looking at that to have that bespoke
(25:08):
moment for the consumer.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Two b's programming strategy, we say internally is is we're
breaking the monoculture.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
What we mean by that is.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You know, again, in a traditional television world, you would
tune in, you know, at eight PM, and there would
be one show that everyone was watching. And what we
have now with on demand and what we will have,
especially as you see democratization of storytelling, more creators, more stories.
Is we say, you know what others dismiss as niche,
(25:39):
we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so
many stories out there, and if you can find a
way to curate and help the right person discover the
right content, they feel, you know, the term that we
always hear from our audience is that they feel seen
by the choices on twob And it's interesting because a
(25:59):
lot of times, if you look at our machine learning
and our algorithms, sometimes it feels kind of random and
it's sort of like, wow, I'm sort of surprised at
you're showing this to me. And I think it's because
we appreciate that we're not all monolithic. We're not all
just a demo or a genre. And that's the smarter
we get again with data and insights, the more diverse
(26:22):
the types of stories are that we can put in
front of our audience and learn from, the more and more.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
We can get to that level.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So I almost think it's like personalization almost sounds like
it's a very like tech driven utilitarian term. I think
the more inspiring ideas like we want every fan to
feel seen in the content.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's great, it's funny. There was a great Microsoft advertising
years ago did a campaign which didn't get a lot
of play, but I saw it and I ran with
it for a while, and it was called The Breakup.
And it was it was presumably a young guy and
a young girl on a day, but it was the
breakup of their relationship. Except she was wearing a T
(27:05):
shirt that said consumer and he was wearing a T
shirt that said marketer. Ah, and so it was the
breakup of the consumer and the marketer and she, the female,
says you don't know me, and the guy says, yes,
I do. You're a female twenty five to thirty four
and starts giving demographics. And by the way, Angela, you
(27:26):
should go find it. It's online, you.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Can find We'll check it out.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's it is called the Breakup. It was done by
a German advertising agency or a Scandinavian advertising agency. This
is twenty years ago, but it still resonates because it
was that friction between the consumer and the marketer saying, wait,
you think on this because I fit into this demo,
Well you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And I don't know if you see this.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I certainly we see it all the time, especially younger audiences,
but I would even say all audiences, there's definitely more
of a you know, authenticity wins now right, Like there's
a feeling of like anything that feels like I'm being less.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I'm going to say, people's bullshit detectors are a lot
are a lot stronger.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, And you know, people, you know, we we don't
have a ton of patients for things that we feel
overly marketed to, overly categorized. You know, probably some of
that is because we're so used to now seeing through
through social media and user generated content, like you're just
seeing more that authentic type of storytelling with less editing
and highly produced nature. And so there is a desire
(28:36):
from audiences to feel like the storytelling is authentic, the
experience is authentic. The brands and in the ways that
brands are integrating and natively being part of stories needs
to feel authentic.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And I think it it's a challenge for a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Of marketers, but it's also a huge opportunity because you
don't have to have a huge budget and feature only
you know, Hollywood a list talent to get your brand
break through. What you do have to do is listen
and understand your customer and speak to them in ways
that feel real.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Good.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Company will be right back after the break. Knowing the
company you keep, knowing the company you work for, knowing
the goals and ambitions. What do you see as the
(29:30):
monetization opportunities beyond ADS? Number one, because I think you're
always going to be looking for those alternative revenue streams
number one. And you know, in the context of being
part of the Fox ecosystem, are you finding the synergies
across you know, the company that give you the ability
to say, hey, I'm part of a larger organization and
(29:54):
there is benefit from that because you know, sometimes you
see it go both ways. There's benefits to it and
sometimes there can be detriments to that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So yeah, I'd love to look.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
At both of those things in terms of sort of
that monetization opportunity beyond ADS and as well the strategic
growth plan or things that you can talk about internally
as well as externally.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, I'll start by saying, you know, I think when
I originally joined to be it is definitely something I
was thinking about, which is, you know, how how will
it work within Fox?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I have to say this.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Has been one probably the most entrepreneurial culture that I've seen,
for especially at a company of two B scale. We've
shared we were sort of on track to cross a billion.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Dollars in revenue, and rarely do.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
You see a business at that scale get to operate
like a scrappy, kind of fearless startup. And I tell
you that has been my experience. I mean, in the
last year and a half, we have completely rebranded, streamed
the super Bowl, launched totally new creator programs like studios,
tried many many different things. There's just been a real
support to kind of let to be do what it
(31:00):
does and not be encumbered by many of the things
that can sometimes happen when you get to a certain scale.
On the flip side, I think that that we've just
started to scratch the surface on synergies and again the
Super Bowl is obviously a wonderful example of that, but
there's so much more that we can do.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
When your parent.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Company has NFL rights and access to an incredible studio
and just you know, really great IP and rights that
we should be able to find a way to unlock
for more viewers. On the montization side, I have a
slightly different perspective, which is, I think there is immense
power and focus and immense power when your business model
(31:42):
is sort of the incentives are completely tied to your customer,
to the viewer. And I believe that the free ad
supported market opportunity is so large CTV advertising is expected
to cross forty billion dollars in the next few years
in the US US alone, not even looking at outside
(32:02):
the US. And so my view is, of course, it's
always our job to look at monetization. Of course, it's
always our job to make sure if there's other business models.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That we're looking at them.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
But I'm very excited about the fact that I think
too B can grow many multiples and be an extremely
compelling player in streaming without having to add tiers and
subscription services and get away from what makes us great.
And just to be very tangible about that, when you
are free and ad supported, you only make money if
(32:36):
somebody is watching.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Period.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
The only metric that drives my business to engagement. It's
engagement because if you're not watching, I can't serve you
an AD, which means I can't make a dollar.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And so that is so powerful.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Because it means that every decision we make in our product,
our content, our marketing, every decision is always about viewer engagement,
which puts the viewer first, and so I'm very reticent
to start to add There's always a temptation, but I
think if you're looking long term, immediately the minute you
start to add these other monetization mechanisms, it just complicates
(33:12):
the purity of that focus. And I think if that's
a benefit for us right now, a strength that we're
going to continue to look to capitalize on.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Having been fortunate that over the last twenty five years,
I've worked with Fox almost continually for twenty five years.
You're you're you're in a good place for that, and
I couldn't be happier for you. And I also know
because I got to know to be early before it
was acquired. So to cross the billion dollar mark is
(33:43):
a very very substantial milestone. Aun, Julia and you to
be congratulated on that, the whole team. But that's that's
meaningful because I know we're farhart started. Because I met
with a very very.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Early it's been a journey.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I had to say that the team is just so amazing,
the culture and the energy, the passion it's it's such
a pleasure and an honor to be part of it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
All good. I'm gonna gonna wrap us up with some
lightning round questions, Jules, Okay, here we go. What's one
small habit in your daily routine that brings you unexpected joy?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Oh my gosh, I'm really revealing a lot about myself.
Every day when I come home, I have like a
little robe. I put on my robe, and for some
reason I feel so relaxed and happy and like at home.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I've never told anybody that, So it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Okay, I'm being vulnerable. I like that. That's a good one.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice,
what would it be.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Be yourself? And if you do that consistently, good things
will happen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know, my favorite Oscar Wild quote is be yourself
because everyone else has taken So there you go. Exactly
in addition to putting on your robe. Now that I
know that, how do you recharge after a long day?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So everyone who knows me knows this. I have one
one hack, just one, and that is sleep.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And Michael, I try and get eight to nine hours
of sleep a night, which sounds a little crazy when
you're when you're busy with your business. I have two
young kids under six, and I just will sacrifice almost
everything else for sleep and prioritize sleep. For me, It's
how I get energy, it's how I show up as
my best self. And I will always swear by sleep.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The best advice Arianna Huffington ever gave me in her
Thrive moment was about sleep. You've got to get that sleep.
She made that bed for your iPad and your iPhone
to put away. Did she ever give you one of those?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
She didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
But I have to say I have always I have
been a huge fan of what she's putting out there
because I live and breathe it and it has made
it makes all the difference in my life.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Looking back, and probably not a lot of things you've missed,
But looking back, is there an opportunity that you passed
on that still gives you a kind of what if?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my gosh, so many?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I think probably when I was at Vimeo, you know,
we were going through a lot of strategic change, a
lot of focus pressure, a on profitability public company, you know,
sort of a lot of the sort of typical things
that go along with that, and you know, I do
think there were times when I can look back and say, oh,
there was an acquisition that we should have done that
(36:32):
I didn't do, or oh there was you know, something
that we looked at doing that just spread us too
thin for me. Probably the biggest and this is why
it goes back to your question on autization is I
think what I've learned is just focus and commitment get
really undervalued sometimes, particularly in media. I think we tend
to chase the press release and oh this company is
doing this, we need to do this, and it's that
(36:54):
shiny object syndrome. It's so easy to think that you
need something new versus obs yes about doing the core
thing that you do and doing it better, incrementally better
and better. It's less sexy, but it's so much more
powerful in the aggregate. And I always think I've learned
that lesson a few times now in business, which is like,
(37:14):
never underestimate the power of focus and of doing you know,
fewer things incrementally, steadily, slowly, in a determined way better
over time.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Who was your mentor early in your career. I mean,
you've worked for some very interesting folks, from Barry Dillar
to you know, you know, God knows, and that Barry
Diller is somebody I have a gigantic respect for. So
I'm certain working for Barry you learned a lot. But
you know, you work for the murdocks who work for
Barry Diller, You've worked for Jeff Bezos. I mean, I'm
just I'm kind of thinking of WHOA very Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I've been so fortunate to work with these brilliant, brilliant builders.
And I'd say one thing is interesting, is so different
stylistically so different, But one common theme I have observed
across all of those leaders is they they never lose
sight of the human that they serve, and they obsess about.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Product and the product experience.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
And I've carried that with me. I think in terms
of mentorship, I've just been so fortunate throughout my career.
I'll be cheesy though, and say, you know, my first
mentor was my dad, the immigrant from India. You know,
I was the oldest, oldest child, and he would just
and he would put Wall Street Journal clippings on my
bed when I was a kid, and and you know,
(38:30):
tell me to get out of my comfort zone and
go pursue the world. And I think when you're a
young Indian girl, awkward Indian girl trying to imagine, you know,
being in corporate corporate America. You kind of need somebody
like that who just believes in you more than you
believe in yourself. And you know, I was fortunate to
have that in a parent.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Well, I'm going to say being a sap myself, being
a father and a grandfather, that is the best answer
you could ever give. I would be thrilled if my
kids or grandkids answered a question like that. So Angeli
sud I want to thank you for a lot of
fun on Good Company today. I hope you enjoyed it
(39:09):
as much as I did.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's always a pleasure chatting with you. Michael.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Good Company is brought to you by Threasy Ventures and
iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Purdeo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Episodes are produced and edited by Mary Doo.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
We'll see you next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We're in an attention economy, and if the next best
use of your time is you just open up your
phone and get on TikTok or engage in some other
free content, then we better find a way to make
Hollywood produce content that easy to access.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:48):
up a listen or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome to Good Company today.
I'm thrilled to have with me a true trailblazer. Angulie
sued the CEO of too Be. Under her decisive leadership,
she has transformed TOUB from a once underdog platform into
a record breaking force, redefining the streaming landscape with its
(01:12):
free ad supported model, from leveraging cutting edge data powered
advertising to launching fan fueled initiatives like studios to pioneering
shoppable moments that merge the worlds of entertainment and commerce.
She is transforming the rules of engagement. Today, she'll share
her insights on everything from the role of AI, to
(01:32):
the future of user experience, to strategic growth through creative
alliances and the like. Prepare for a conversation that's both
poignant and practical, offering insights for every decision maker navigating
this hyper competitive landscape. So let's dive in and discover
how Angeleie is not just keeping pace but setting the
tempo for the future of streaming. Ajulie, thanks for joining
(01:55):
me today.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Thank you Michael. It's lovely to be here with you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I want to dive right in. I love the word studio.
It's one of those that caught my attention. So I'm
going to start with you know, a little bit of
a word game year. But go ahead and tell us
please about the studio initiative and as well kind of
weaving in the importance of content partnerships to to be,
but to you personally, based on your experience, You've had
(02:22):
some great experience in the video ecosystem before to Be,
and you know, I'm so anxious to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Now, yeah, sure so studios.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
It's the Word to Be in the Word studio and
it is the first fan fueled studio in streaming that
to be launched last year. It's a platform and mechanism
for any creators and storytellers to submit their ideas for
green light by to Be, and we use fan engagement
(02:56):
as a sort of metric to decide if fans are
excited about a specific idea or a creator, then we
will use that to ultimately green light a select slate
of content. We produce that content, we fund it, we
distribute it on our platform, and we actually partnered with
Isa Ray and her company to mentor a lot of
(03:20):
these creators to help set them up for success.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Now, why are we doing this.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
We're doing it because what we hear from our viewers
and audience, particularly younger audiences, is they want more diversity
in storytelling. They want to hear from smaller, independent creators.
They want to feel like they have a direct voice
in the stories that they see. And you know, Michael, like,
that's in many ways what you already get and social
(03:45):
media on YouTube and in UGC content, but in Hollywood,
you know, we haven't really seen that, and so this
is kind of a sort of a first attempt by
to be to really bridge what I would call the
creator economy with Hollywood, and I think we think there's
a lot of work and experimentation to do here still,
but super excited about the potential.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And what you talked about, Angelie reminds me of the
early days of the Internet when people talked about the
democratization of content and the idea. And you'll certainly appreciate
this being on.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
The studio side, if you or the studio side, if
you will, the old idea of who had that green light,
you know, the green light, And I've always looked at
it through the lens of, by the way, a different
topic on a continuum from green light to red carpet.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I've always wanted to understand that journey from green light
to red carpet. And what you've just talked about is
green light in a different way through studios, right, I mean,
this is the ultimate democratization.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah, it is. And you know it's funny.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So I spent about a decade before to be at Vimeo.
It's an online video platform where all we tried to
do was lower the barriers to helping more creators produce
quality content because there was a point in time where
it was just so expensive, so time consuming, so difficult
to do. I think between AI, between technology and software,
(05:09):
that has gotten easier, but on the flip side, you
still have the green light process and the reality is
that in Hollywood, the way most content is greenlight is
driven based on knowing the right people, relationships, access, and
there is a need to kind of lower those barriers
as well. It's something that we really want to do.
(05:30):
And I love your framing of green light to red
Carpet because one of the things that has surprised me
most with working with a lot of more digitally native
creators because we are doing that now more and more,
is that for many of them, they really do want
a path to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
They want a path to the red carpet.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's an incredible milestone and achievement that feels very hard
to achieve and navigate. And so I wouldn't pretend to
say too be has figured out how to go from
green light to red carpet for in a democratized way
for creators, but we are very committed to figuring it out.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Well you're greasing the skid, So I'll tell you that much.
And that's a meaningful part of the equation. And the
other thing is when you looked at the universe of
creators and the creator economy earlier in the game, I
think everybody's goal was, boy, I want to get to
have a TV show. Yeah, And you think about that
(06:28):
now and you think of some of these creators, they're
a lot better off on the platforms like to Be
and other places than traditional TV show. And I understand
you might push back on that and say, well, what,
this is a traditional TV show, But I don't think
of it that way.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I don't think of that way either.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Honestly, I think of it as to me, it's about
graduating storytelling and graduating storytellers. And I'll give you an
example of sort of a recent project that to Be did.
We did an original movie called Sidelined and it's based
on a watpad novel that had you know, thirty million followers,
(07:06):
and we it's starring Noah Back, who is a TikTok
influencer in his first movie. And you know, that's an
example where it is this is Hollywood produce content. It's
a traditional movie format, but it's at least leveraging some
of the more creator aspects of what's happening in culture.
And I have to tell you the result blew me Away.
(07:28):
We had over ten million viewers on that title. It's
one of the highest performing on TV ever. We had
tens of thousands of fans who were clipping, you know,
clips from the movie and sharing on social media, getting
hundreds of millions of views. That helped drive audience to
that content. And you know, I think we're figuring it out,
but we're proving that you can bridge these things. If
(07:50):
you talk to someone like Noah, he's a prolific creator,
but this is his opportunity to go to sort of
Hollywood into the red carpet and that graduate into longer
form storytelling. And I think that that's it's a really
compelling thing, and I think you're going to see more
of it.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
One of the stats that blew me away recently was
that YouTube I think it was there are over one
thousand YouTube creators now that have each have over ten
million followers. It's crazy, right, So, like, and you think
about that, and you think about how most of Hollywood,
you know, we're doing a slate of five films, you know,
(08:27):
or ten films, and you just think about the difference there,
and that's you know, we are going to witness that
coming together in the next few years one thousand percent.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
And you know, if you look at sure, he's a
unicorn and maybe the unicorn, but you look at Jimmy Donaldson,
you look at mister beast and what he's talking about
in terms of valuation of his company, should he go
public or whatever. You know, one has to stand back
and tat tension.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
It's in the billions. It's a big one.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
As I've learned working with big companies, it's not interesting
till it's got to be. He's got to be it.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
It does.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
It's all good, all, Julie. I want to switch because
you know, and I continue to say this, the drinking
game at the intersection that I live in and you
live in, which is the intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment,
sports and technology. We'll get to sports with the Super
Bowl in a little bit, but let's talk about the
drinking game at that intersection with AI, the intersection you
(09:25):
said it earlier, of tech and culture. Where do you
see the role of AI in that coming together of
tech and culture, because can you be more culturally relevant
through the benefit of AI, Perhaps can it help you
read the room better trying to reach the consumer. It's
really a question that I know you're grappling with, but
(09:47):
everybody is grappling with.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Listen.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think AI is an incredibly transformative technology and with
that comes in men's opportunity as well as risks that
we have to thoughtfully navigate. And I think we have
too be are very cog of the role that we
play sitting at the intersection of Hollywood and tech to
use AI in ways that are positive for storytelling. I
believe there's tons of opportunity here. I'll give you even
(10:11):
just like a couple of different distinct buckets. One is
most people feel, like, you know, we live in a
world where there's a paradox of choice.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
There's too much to watch. But then also it's too
hard to find something to watch.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
And AI can definitely help us understand content and improve
content discovery. You know, if you think about the way
that we find something to watch today, we're like sitting
on our couch using our remote to like, you know,
search in a grid based on type of you know,
category or genre or title, and that's just feels antiquated.
(10:45):
Given what technology should do. I should be able to say,
here's the mood I'm in, here's how I want to feel,
and a streaming service should be able to connect me
with the right content to do that. So that's like
a very near term use of AI.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Umb old fashioned I have people for that.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, not everybody does, and and you know it's
funny because I totally believe that you would. But so
that's you know, that's one area where we see immediate utility.
Another area is AI can be used to make it faster,
cheaper to create good quality content. A great example of
(11:20):
stock footage. You know, before, if you wanted to have
a scene in a movie where you had the skyline
of New York, you had to go search for the
right footage. You had to pay thousands of thousands of
dollars to license that content.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Now you can just generate, you know, whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
And I think that the idea though, is that you know,
in the past, if you were a creative and you
had an idea for a movie or a show or
a scene, think about all the steps and the money
and time it would take to make that a reality
and what AI can do generative AI in particular, is
it right so that there is a world where you
can accelerate creativity, democratize creativity.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
And to the creator. And I look at this through
the lens of my experience working with creators. You know, personally,
I happen to be on the board of a company
called spotter As I think, yes, and I've gotten underneath
but creator economy in a unique way through that lens.
And believe me, the tools that they need, the creators
(12:15):
to be able to advance their craft and to be
able to create more to satisfy the demand of these
people with ten million plus subscribers that you talked about,
AI is their best friend. There is no doubt about
it used properly.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I completely believe that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
And you know I've flip it to the other side,
which is for advertisers and brands.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
I also think there's a ton of value in AI.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And you know, one of the things we just released too,
just we do an annual streaming report. We do a
survey with the Harris Poll and we get a bunch
of insights about what gen z cares about and how
people are feeling and there's some really good nuggets in there.
But one of the things that's interesting is that a
lot of younger audiences, you know, they're used to ads,
they're on Instagram, they're used to to ads being personal
(13:00):
and targeted and useful for them. In streaming, we have
not gotten there. Most audiences and viewers do not find
the ads that they see on television or streaming to
be personalized or particularly bespoke to them.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And I do think one of the reasons for that
is just again.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
The cost and the time to create content, to create
branded content, to make ads, and then to be able
to do that, you know, in different iterations, and make
it dynamic and targeted. I think that's a whole body
of opportunity which is good for brands and advertisers because
it will increase the ROI of their advertising. It's also
good for the consumer because now the ad goes from
(13:38):
being a nuisance or feeling irrelevant to you to suddenly
being helpful and makes the entire product experience.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Exactly, exactly right and delivered to you in an environment
that you have an expectation of. It's what I used
to say about discovery, whether it was better homes and
Garden Channel or DIY not another place I don't spend
a lot of time, okay, But the truth is, when
(14:06):
you're wearing those environments, you fully expected marketing at you
because you wanted to be able to buy the goods
and services that you were seeing. You go in with
the expectation of being marketed to. You can find that
consumer who's actually interested in what you're going to try
and sell them. So you know your point is so
well taken. Let's switch gears and I'm going to throw
(14:27):
you a long pass here. You guys killed it with
the Super Bowl. I think you broke every streaming record
for sure in terms of the performance, But talk a
little bit about how you felt not only shattering kind
of streaming records, but also showcasing what a Super Bowl
could be from the your standpoint, from the user experience,
(14:50):
you know, with advanced digital strategies that you were able
to deploy on too be. I mean, it was really
a smash for you guys.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I appreciate that, obdibly proud of what Fox and two
Be came together to deliver for audiences, for Americans, for advertisers,
and I think for the league. We were able to
deliver the most streamed Super Bowl in history. We saw
a much bigger share of our audience being younger, Like
(15:18):
forty percent of viewers who streamed the Super Bowl on
twob were ages eighteen to thirty four, and half of
them were women, which is just showing you that the
opportunity to broaden reach and drive an incremental audience. And
I think the key insight for us there was that,
you know, there are plenty of folks that are hardcore,
you know, football fans, They're going to watch the Super
(15:39):
Bowl for the game. There's also millions and millions of
Americans who maybe are more interested in the Super Bowl
as a cultural moment, maybe more interested in the Super
Bowl for the ads or the halftime show. And we
really tried to build not just a technical and streaming capability,
but programming around that. We had a red carpet where
(15:59):
we featured and celebrity around the game.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I do want to yeah, a Julie, I do want
to talk about that because your collaboration there with shop
Sense was really effective from what I understand, and the
ability to do that and have the shoppable experience when
we're talking everywhere we look about retail media, that's retail media, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I can tell you I think for us it
was about really like broadening and expanding reach programming around
that sort of cord cutter, cord never younger audience who
maybe not the hardcore sports fan. And then I think
the last component was access. You know two these free
it's frictionless that we worked really hard to deliver a
(16:41):
super high quality stream in four K, low latency. We
wanted it to feel incredibly delightful and easy, and I
think what you saw and the reason that the numbers
look so so strong and.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That you know, the feedback by the way, I think
probably the thing I was.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Most nervous about was, you know, if you have its
technical problem during the game, we all know you get crucified,
but you get crucified by consumers, especially on social media.
And we had something like ninety five percent positive sentiment
or or sort of neutral positive sentiment on social and
so many, so many people.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
I live in an eighty twenty world. If you told
me eighty percent, i'd i'd I'd be high fiving you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
So it was pretty amazing to see. And so many
people wrote in or posted about how they just really
felt like they got an amazing experience for free and
that that really mattered. And I think you're going to
see more and more of that in premium content and
sports as it relates to shoppable experience and our integration
with shopsin's. I think, you know, obviously, what we wanted
(17:43):
to do there was we're programming a red carpet, We're
talking about fits in fashion, and we wanted to find
brands that we could partner with and find ways to
create that.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Call to action, that shoppable call to action.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And I'd say, you know, from everything that we saw,
we did deliver really compelling results for our brand partners.
You know, they were able to track how the viewer
engaged in the content and then ultimately purchased, and to
your point, on retail media networks like this is obviously
the kind of direction the world is going. I used
to work at Amazon on the e commerce side, and
(18:15):
I was also a former head of marketing, a CMO,
and I know firsthand how incredibly painful it is when
you're trying to you know, you're trying to spend your
marketing budget and your CEOs, you know, your CFO is
asking you about return on investment and how you track it,
and it's so hard to really understand that. And I
think in streaming, because we've traditionally been you know, very
(18:37):
brand focused, and because there's so much fragmentation now in
an attention and audience, it's just gotten really hard for marketers.
So I think our goal here is like how do
we use e commerce data shoppable data, but also how
do we just aggregate and make it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Easier for marketers to track results.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
My bet is that you're going to just see more
and more dollars move towards that kind of investment, and
we want to be part of that.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break, we've got more insights to
share it. I remember a story in the industry when
one guy used to talk about addressable advertising, you know,
(19:23):
in its rudimentary form, and the example he always used
was poladant. And I have nothing against polydet but he said,
only eight percent of the world is toothless, and when
you do a polyodt ad, you're going large to one
hundred percent. Just find me the toothless, you know, perays
remember that it was like fun, find me the toothless.
(19:46):
The people who actually need this product, and we're getting
closer to that finally, I think. But An Julie, you know,
one of the funny questions I want to ask you
is the evolution of ad supported the model ad supported model,
Because I was about to say a different word, and
I said this earlier kind of reminds me of television.
When I grew up, we put rabbit ears on the box,
(20:09):
or we put an antenna on the roof before we
had cable, and I got to watch Channel two, four, five, seven, nine,
and eleven and thirteen in Los Angeles, and I didn't
have to pay anybody to do that. I just had
to give my attention to the commercial messages that were
being sent my way, or at least they hoped I
gave my attention. And that was called ad supported television.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, I mean, what's old is new it appears, But
you know, I think you're absolutely right. Think about the
history of broadcast television, free ad supported.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Think about social.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Media, where actually most people are spending their hours in
time also free and ad supported. So you know, it's
funny because I think there is a lot of almost
a surprise around free ad supported streaming. But obviously to
be has believed in that model for over a decade
and on our founder Varhad was a big champion when
it wasn't pop bueler to be. But I think it's
(21:02):
fairly obvious at this point, or should be, that we're
in an attention economy and if the next best use
of your time is you just open up your phone
and get on TikTok or engage in some other free content,
then we better find a way to make Hollywood produce
content that easy to access. I will say one of
(21:23):
the things I've observed in the industry, and it's an
area that to be continues to have to sort of
help clarify, is there is a difference between what I
would call like a fast live linear channels, So that's
like someone going into an episode guide and sort of
tuning into a channel of content. There's a difference between
that and then VOD content on demand content that is free.
(21:47):
Some platforms have really leaned into live linear channels, which
is more like broadcast television. Twob's momentum and success is
actually not coming from that.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
For us. It's on demand. Think of it like a
free Netflix.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
It's just the ability to find and discover movies and
TV series that you're really excited to watch, and that
being free and ad supported.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
And I do think we're fairly unique.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
In that way. Ninety five percent of all of our
viewing is on demand. I suspect that pretends to a
future where you're just going to see again consumer expectations
are going to be I don't want to pay for
a Netflix like experience, and I'm happy to watch ads
if it's delivered to me in a personalized, frictionless way
in exchange, full stop.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
And I agree with you, And I also think I
have a business principle that I apply to a lot
of different circumstances, and that is finding a way to
use these three words in the same sense fragmentation, consolidation,
and efficiency. So for me, we're in a market today
in streaming which is wildly fragmented and therefore less efficient.
(22:56):
If we can figure out a way to consolidate to
make it more efficient, that fragmentation will go away and
people will be happier, both on the buyer side, the
consumer and the seller side, the two b's of the world.
So I do see that happening as well. I'm curious
your view of that.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I completely agree. I would just add I think of
it less. I mean it is consolidation, but I think
of it as aggregation, and I.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Think about by the way better.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
What I think two B has done is we built
a bit of a flywheel that where we get these
economies of scale.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
We have the largest library, largest collection.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Of movies and TV series, We have over one hundred
million monthly active viewers. And what happens is we just
get better and better with scale at hearing what audiences want,
listening to them, giving them more of that. We then
use the data and insights to improve the experience, and
we just get more and more efficient. I suspect the
sort of winners in the attention economy in the future
(23:55):
will be the companies and platforms that figure out how
to aggregate at scale and do it in a way
that puts consumers and viewers first.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Ajulie, I like to learn, and you just taught me
something because I have talked about consolidation, fragmentation efficiency for
a long time, but I am going to add aggregation
into it because you're absolutely right, that is a very
good point, and I will give you credit for that
for some period of time. Then I'm just going to
git Yeah, exactly I'm going to, you know, probably two
weeks and then I'm going to say I made it up.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
It's all good.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Let's switch to that user experience part of this, Anjulie,
because I know that's important to you and to too be.
But I know it's important to you because you and
I've had conversations about this one on one to personalize
it and really bring it to you. You know, I
chatted to Malcolm Gladwell a long time ago and he
said to me once, what people are looking for in
(24:47):
life is a frame. This was a long time ago,
like eighteen or nineteen years ago. People are still looking
for a frame. But maybe that frame is around viewing.
Maybe that frame is that personalized experience to deliver to
me what I really want. You said it earlier, but
how are you looking at that to have that bespoke
(25:08):
moment for the consumer.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Two b's programming strategy, we say internally is is we're
breaking the monoculture.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
What we mean by that is.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You know, again, in a traditional television world, you would
tune in, you know, at eight PM, and there would
be one show that everyone was watching. And what we
have now with on demand and what we will have,
especially as you see democratization of storytelling, more creators, more stories.
Is we say, you know what others dismiss as niche,
(25:39):
we embrace as core. It's this idea that there's so
many stories out there, and if you can find a
way to curate and help the right person discover the
right content, they feel, you know, the term that we
always hear from our audience is that they feel seen
by the choices on twob And it's interesting because a
(25:59):
lot of times, if you look at our machine learning
and our algorithms, sometimes it feels kind of random and
it's sort of like, wow, I'm sort of surprised at
you're showing this to me. And I think it's because
we appreciate that we're not all monolithic. We're not all
just a demo or a genre. And that's the smarter
we get again with data and insights, the more diverse
(26:22):
the types of stories are that we can put in
front of our audience and learn from, the more and more.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
We can get to that level.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So I almost think it's like personalization almost sounds like
it's a very like tech driven utilitarian term. I think
the more inspiring ideas like we want every fan to
feel seen in the content.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
It's great, it's funny. There was a great Microsoft advertising
years ago did a campaign which didn't get a lot
of play, but I saw it and I ran with
it for a while, and it was called The Breakup.
And it was it was presumably a young guy and
a young girl on a day, but it was the
breakup of their relationship. Except she was wearing a T
(27:05):
shirt that said consumer and he was wearing a T
shirt that said marketer. Ah, and so it was the
breakup of the consumer and the marketer and she, the female,
says you don't know me, and the guy says, yes,
I do. You're a female twenty five to thirty four
and starts giving demographics. And by the way, Angela, you
(27:26):
should go find it. It's online, you.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Can find We'll check it out.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
That's it is called the Breakup. It was done by
a German advertising agency or a Scandinavian advertising agency. This
is twenty years ago, but it still resonates because it
was that friction between the consumer and the marketer saying, wait,
you think on this because I fit into this demo,
Well you're wrong.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, And I don't know if you see this.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
I certainly we see it all the time, especially younger audiences,
but I would even say all audiences, there's definitely more
of a you know, authenticity wins now right, Like there's
a feeling of like anything that feels like I'm being less.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
I'm going to say, people's bullshit detectors are a lot
are a lot stronger.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, And you know, people, you know, we we don't
have a ton of patients for things that we feel
overly marketed to, overly categorized. You know, probably some of
that is because we're so used to now seeing through
through social media and user generated content, like you're just
seeing more that authentic type of storytelling with less editing
and highly produced nature. And so there is a desire
(28:36):
from audiences to feel like the storytelling is authentic, the
experience is authentic. The brands and in the ways that
brands are integrating and natively being part of stories needs
to feel authentic.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
And I think it it's a challenge for a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Of marketers, but it's also a huge opportunity because you
don't have to have a huge budget and feature only
you know, Hollywood a list talent to get your brand
break through. What you do have to do is listen
and understand your customer and speak to them in ways
that feel real.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Good.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
Company will be right back after the break. Knowing the
company you keep, knowing the company you work for, knowing
the goals and ambitions. What do you see as the
(29:30):
monetization opportunities beyond ADS? Number one, because I think you're
always going to be looking for those alternative revenue streams
number one. And you know, in the context of being
part of the Fox ecosystem, are you finding the synergies
across you know, the company that give you the ability
to say, hey, I'm part of a larger organization and
(29:54):
there is benefit from that because you know, sometimes you
see it go both ways. There's benefits to it and
sometimes there can be detriments to that.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So yeah, I'd love to look.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
At both of those things in terms of sort of
that monetization opportunity beyond ADS and as well the strategic
growth plan or things that you can talk about internally
as well as externally.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, I'll start by saying, you know, I think when
I originally joined to be it is definitely something I
was thinking about, which is, you know, how how will
it work within Fox?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I have to say this.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Has been one probably the most entrepreneurial culture that I've seen,
for especially at a company of two B scale. We've
shared we were sort of on track to cross a billion.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Dollars in revenue, and rarely do.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
You see a business at that scale get to operate
like a scrappy, kind of fearless startup. And I tell
you that has been my experience. I mean, in the
last year and a half, we have completely rebranded, streamed
the super Bowl, launched totally new creator programs like studios,
tried many many different things. There's just been a real
support to kind of let to be do what it
(31:00):
does and not be encumbered by many of the things
that can sometimes happen when you get to a certain scale.
On the flip side, I think that that we've just
started to scratch the surface on synergies and again the
Super Bowl is obviously a wonderful example of that, but
there's so much more that we can do.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
When your parent.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Company has NFL rights and access to an incredible studio
and just you know, really great IP and rights that
we should be able to find a way to unlock
for more viewers. On the montization side, I have a
slightly different perspective, which is, I think there is immense
power and focus and immense power when your business model
(31:42):
is sort of the incentives are completely tied to your customer,
to the viewer. And I believe that the free ad
supported market opportunity is so large CTV advertising is expected
to cross forty billion dollars in the next few years
in the US US alone, not even looking at outside
(32:02):
the US. And so my view is, of course, it's
always our job to look at monetization. Of course, it's
always our job to make sure if there's other business models.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
That we're looking at them.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
But I'm very excited about the fact that I think
too B can grow many multiples and be an extremely
compelling player in streaming without having to add tiers and
subscription services and get away from what makes us great.
And just to be very tangible about that, when you
are free and ad supported, you only make money if
(32:36):
somebody is watching.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Period.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
The only metric that drives my business to engagement. It's
engagement because if you're not watching, I can't serve you
an AD, which means I can't make a dollar.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
And so that is so powerful.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Because it means that every decision we make in our product,
our content, our marketing, every decision is always about viewer engagement,
which puts the viewer first, and so I'm very reticent
to start to add There's always a temptation, but I
think if you're looking long term, immediately the minute you
start to add these other monetization mechanisms, it just complicates
(33:12):
the purity of that focus. And I think if that's
a benefit for us right now, a strength that we're
going to continue to look to capitalize on.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Having been fortunate that over the last twenty five years,
I've worked with Fox almost continually for twenty five years.
You're you're you're in a good place for that, and
I couldn't be happier for you. And I also know
because I got to know to be early before it
was acquired. So to cross the billion dollar mark is
(33:43):
a very very substantial milestone. Aun, Julia and you to
be congratulated on that, the whole team. But that's that's
meaningful because I know we're farhart started. Because I met
with a very very.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Early it's been a journey.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
I had to say that the team is just so amazing,
the culture and the energy, the passion it's it's such
a pleasure and an honor to be part of it.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
All good. I'm gonna gonna wrap us up with some
lightning round questions, Jules, Okay, here we go. What's one
small habit in your daily routine that brings you unexpected joy?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Oh my gosh, I'm really revealing a lot about myself.
Every day when I come home, I have like a
little robe. I put on my robe, and for some
reason I feel so relaxed and happy and like at home.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I've never told anybody that, So it's good.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Okay, I'm being vulnerable. I like that. That's a good one.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice,
what would it be.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Be yourself? And if you do that consistently, good things
will happen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know, my favorite Oscar Wild quote is be yourself
because everyone else has taken So there you go. Exactly
in addition to putting on your robe. Now that I
know that, how do you recharge after a long day?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
So everyone who knows me knows this. I have one
one hack, just one, and that is sleep.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And Michael, I try and get eight to nine hours
of sleep a night, which sounds a little crazy when
you're when you're busy with your business. I have two
young kids under six, and I just will sacrifice almost
everything else for sleep and prioritize sleep. For me, It's
how I get energy, it's how I show up as
my best self. And I will always swear by sleep.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
The best advice Arianna Huffington ever gave me in her
Thrive moment was about sleep. You've got to get that sleep.
She made that bed for your iPad and your iPhone
to put away. Did she ever give you one of those?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
She didn't.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
But I have to say I have always I have
been a huge fan of what she's putting out there
because I live and breathe it and it has made
it makes all the difference in my life.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Looking back, and probably not a lot of things you've missed,
But looking back, is there an opportunity that you passed
on that still gives you a kind of what if?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh my gosh, so many?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
I think probably when I was at Vimeo, you know,
we were going through a lot of strategic change, a
lot of focus pressure, a on profitability public company, you know,
sort of a lot of the sort of typical things
that go along with that, and you know, I do
think there were times when I can look back and say, oh,
there was an acquisition that we should have done that
(36:32):
I didn't do, or oh there was you know, something
that we looked at doing that just spread us too
thin for me. Probably the biggest and this is why
it goes back to your question on autization is I
think what I've learned is just focus and commitment get
really undervalued sometimes, particularly in media. I think we tend
to chase the press release and oh this company is
doing this, we need to do this, and it's that
(36:54):
shiny object syndrome. It's so easy to think that you
need something new versus obs yes about doing the core
thing that you do and doing it better, incrementally better
and better. It's less sexy, but it's so much more
powerful in the aggregate. And I always think I've learned
that lesson a few times now in business, which is like,
(37:14):
never underestimate the power of focus and of doing you know,
fewer things incrementally, steadily, slowly, in a determined way better
over time.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Who was your mentor early in your career. I mean,
you've worked for some very interesting folks, from Barry Dillar
to you know, you know, God knows, and that Barry
Diller is somebody I have a gigantic respect for. So
I'm certain working for Barry you learned a lot. But
you know, you work for the murdocks who work for
Barry Diller, You've worked for Jeff Bezos. I mean, I'm
just I'm kind of thinking of WHOA very Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I've been so fortunate to work with these brilliant, brilliant builders.
And I'd say one thing is interesting, is so different
stylistically so different, But one common theme I have observed
across all of those leaders is they they never lose
sight of the human that they serve, and they obsess about.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Product and the product experience.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
And I've carried that with me. I think in terms
of mentorship, I've just been so fortunate throughout my career.
I'll be cheesy though, and say, you know, my first
mentor was my dad, the immigrant from India. You know,
I was the oldest, oldest child, and he would just
and he would put Wall Street Journal clippings on my
bed when I was a kid, and and you know,
(38:30):
tell me to get out of my comfort zone and
go pursue the world. And I think when you're a
young Indian girl, awkward Indian girl trying to imagine, you know,
being in corporate corporate America. You kind of need somebody
like that who just believes in you more than you
believe in yourself. And you know, I was fortunate to
have that in a parent.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Well, I'm going to say being a sap myself, being
a father and a grandfather, that is the best answer
you could ever give. I would be thrilled if my
kids or grandkids answered a question like that. So Angeli
sud I want to thank you for a lot of
fun on Good Company today. I hope you enjoyed it
(39:09):
as much as I did.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's always a pleasure chatting with you. Michael.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
I'm Michael Casson. Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Good Company is brought to you by Threasy Ventures and
iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Purdeo, our executive
producer and head of Content and Talent, and to Carl.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Episodes are produced and edited by Mary Doo.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
We'll see you next time.
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