April 23, 2025 • 41 mins
Under Tim's leadership, the NFL has entered what many are calling a true renaissance. At a time when other leagues are fighting to retain viewers, the NFL is expanding its reach across the globe, deepening its connections with younger, more diverse fans, and forging powerful partnerships across fashion, music, gaming, and tech. This conversation will dive deep into how he’s humanizing the NFL brand, the bold moves being made to engage new audiences, the future of fan culture - and what’s next for flag football worldwide.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio, and.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have a dual prong strategy. One side of it
is to focus on the enjoyment of the game, and
on the other side of it's how do we transcend
the game? How do we use our leverage and our
power and our influence to actually work as a uniter
and bring people together.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:45):
up a lesson or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome to Good Company.
If you've ever wondered what it takes to not just
survive in today's hyper competitive marketing landscape, but to truly
thrive and redefine culture, you're in for a treat. My
guest today is someone who's done exactly that. Tim Ellis
(01:07):
is the chief marketing officer of the National Football League
under his leadership, the NFL has entered what many are
calling a true renaissance. At a time when other leagues
are fighting to retain viewers, the NFL is expanding its
reach across the globe, deepening its connections with the younger,
more diverse fans, and forging powerful partnerships across fashion, music, gaming,
(01:29):
and tech. Tim's vision isn't just transforming the league, it's
transforming the business of sports. In today's conversation, we'll dive
deep into how he's humanizing the NFL brand, the bold
moves being made to engage new audiences, the future of
fan culture, and maybe even what's next for flag football worldwide.
(01:51):
This one's packed with insights and inspiration. Let's dive in. Tim,
Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you Michael, what a pleasure. This is going to
be great.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Tim. The last time I saw you in person, I
think was in New Orleans. The Super Bowl isn't just
a game. It's a global marketing moment. It brings the
world together in a way that nothing else really can.
And looking back at this year, I would ask you,
because I always like to look at risk reward. The
reward was great, but what was the biggest risk. You
(02:22):
think you took this year with marketing strategy and did
it pay off?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah? I think Listen, it was good. We all knew
that with a political election year that you know, you
often have people who are very distracted and not really
focusing on anything, even sports, believe it or not. And
we've even seen historically every four years during the election
that we lost viewers, and we were really adamant about that.
We're not going to go backwards this year, and in fact,
(02:49):
we're also not going to shrink in any way from
our normal programs. We're going to go ahead. We're going
to move ahead, and we're going to actually take this
opportunity and grow our position and grow our brand, grow
the equity around the brand, and ultimately have our most
successful year ever. And I think a lot of that
came down to, you know, being consistent with the programs
that we had had and also leaning in. As an example,
(03:11):
we decided to do a big get out the vote campaign. Obviously,
it was a very divisive election and a lot of
passion on both sides, and so we decided our appropriate
sort of role there was to actually encourage people to
unite and come together and vote. You exercise your civic
right to vote. We decided that we were going to
move forward and be as powerful as possible and to
(03:34):
live according to our values and do the things that
we knew that the NFL could do, which is ultimately
uniting people in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
You know, Tim, let me say it firsthand as a
citizen of this country and as somebody who was there live.
You did it, and you're delivered across the board. If
those were the KPIs, as we like to talk about
in marketing, that you hit the KPIs because you embraced
it in such a way, and you know, you said
(04:02):
something about you've made a decision to double down. That's
the marketer in you. Because I look at this and
I remember speaking with a very very famous global marketer,
somebody who kind of moves markets when he speaks. He
said to me, in trouble times, this particular company's marketing
strategy is not to pull back, but to double down,
(04:23):
because that's the time you can get market share. You
get more market share if you double down when the
other folks are leaning back, and that's obviously working for you.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of brands and
marketers who try to survive those challenging years, and we
always look at it as an opportunity to actually grow
our position, right, to sort of do the things that
we would normally do, but do them better, do them more.
And I think that ultimately people remember that. Listen, it's
(04:53):
all about art and commercialism, right, That's what we do
in marketing, and art takes courage. And I'm very proud
of what we did. I mean, we are super Bowl alone, right,
the spots that we did. We did one big powerful
spot called I Am Somebody, which turned out to be
one of the top five spots I think in every
roundup they had about, you know, the best spots out there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You know, May I speak to that personally, Tim, because
I want to bring it back to what I said
when I introduced you. This is about who Tim Ellis
is as a person. It's kind of like when you say,
when people talk to me about show business, I always
remind them, remember there's two words there. There's the show
and there's the business. When I talk about Tim Ellis,
I'm going to talk about him as a world famous,
(05:34):
boldfaced named chief marketing officer, but I'm going to talk
about you as a person. Your involvement with Big Brothers
Big Sisters and the importance of that, and the fact
that you were able to figure out a way, and
I applaud you for this to have Big Brothers Big
Sisters featured in that spot. It wasn't product placement, but
it was in its surest form, But it was product
(05:57):
placement that was so perfect for what you needed to
do at the NFL, in my opinion, and what we
needed at Big Brothers Big Sisters to continue to drum
beat of the importance of mentorship and the importance of
everything that Big Brothers Big Sisters stand for. So the
merger of those two things is kind of like, as
I said, the show and the business. You had the
(06:19):
marketing and you have the heart.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Listen these moments you have to really think, well, where
do we all come together? Where do we unite? I
think if we can't all agree that our young people
need our support through mentorship, then what are we doing right?
So I think that what we chose to do is
let's focus on things that are very important that really
need our support, deserve our support, and let's do it
(06:42):
in a powerful way that truly touches people's hearts and
brings them together, and I think, ultimately, you know, that's
what sports leads can do. I think, because we are
the biggest and the most influential sport in the country,
that is something that is really our responsibility. You know,
I look at this part of ours of course for good.
I mean, I have a dual prong strategy at the NFL.
(07:03):
One one side of it is to sort of like
focus on the enjoyment of the game, right, and then
on the other side of it's how do we transcend
the game. How do we use our leverage and our
power and our influence to actually work as a uniter
and bring people together. And ultimately the Super Bowl is
the master expression of that strategy. We had one, you know,
(07:24):
really fun, exciting spot around the emergence of girls flag
football in America, and we've been a big part of
growing that sport and getting the momentum and really getting
it essentially as a conversation topic at the dinner table. Right.
For a while there, people weren't at home, maybe weren't
talking about football like they used to twenty thirty years ago.
(07:44):
But now we've given them an opportunity to actually gather
around and embrace football in the family through you know Flag,
particularly girls flag, which is you know, the most inclusive
expression of our game. And now we've got tremendous momentum
in that sport. It's going to be the LA twenty
eight Olympics and hopefully in Brisbane four years afterwards. It's
(08:06):
one of the fastest coming sports in the country. It's
literally doublest participation in less than a year, and I
think that has all come from us working closely with
our clubs and with our partners in the country, and
to be honest, now internationally it's very exciting. So you know,
you have this big opportunity in the Super Bowl. You
have one very powerful spot around uniting the country around
(08:29):
mentorship with this I think beautiful spot shot in New
Orleans called I Am Somebody. And then a very fun
exciting spot would called Flag fifty because we're looking to
get Flags sanctioned in all fifty states in the country
and we're well on our way to getting there, and
so you know, I think ultimately together, I was really
(08:49):
proud and excited about the impact and the response of
that work.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And I applaud you for that, as I know the
market does. You've talked about the audience and the fans,
But the other constituent you have obviously are the players.
Those are the assets. That's the bread and butter this
program that you've championed, the Helmets Off approach. I'd love
for you to kind of shine a light on that
for our audience because the idea of humanizing these iconic
(09:17):
figures to many people, the athletes, again, the assets that
you have at the NFL. Could you talk about what
the Helmet's Off approach is hoping to achieve and is
it doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah? You know, when I joined the NFL, there were
a lot of things that I knew immediately that I
wanted to do. In fact, believe it or not, the
strategy that we're on today, the helmet cell strategy, is
something that I laid out in my first interview with
the NFL. I was working at Activision and I've been
there for seven years. It was a great experience, and
at that time we were bringing interactive entertainment from the
(09:53):
basement into mainstream entertainment and it was really a great period.
I wasn't looking at anything to do, but then I
heard through a you know, executive search agency, that they
were looking for the new CMO of the NFL, and
I immediately jumped on that because I'm a big fan myself.
And then number two, it was a period of the
NFL where they really needed some guidance. It was at
(10:14):
a real low point, right. Their audiences were beginning to dwindle,
particularly the younger audiences. They were losing a lot of
their ambassadors in the entertainment industry, and you know, they
were having a tough time with some of the things
going on together with their players, right And I knew
because there was rightfully so, there was a lot of
protests at that time by the players, and the NFL
(10:37):
had made some mistakes there in terms of how they
were working with the players. And so when I came
to them and I said, hey, the number one thing
that we need to do here is to utilize let's
just call it the helmets OLV strategy, where essentially you're
putting the players at the forefront of everything that you
do and you're humanizing the game. Right And obviously, in football,
(10:59):
most people don't even know what the players look like, right,
So from a very practical perspective, get them to know
and even recognize the players. You had to get their
helmets off. But even more importantly was like.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
By the way, tim, I was at a meeting the
other night, having a drink with somebody at a hotel,
and there was a manning in the audience, literally in
the bar, and I said, wait is that? Which one
is that?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah? And that's the most famous family in football right now, right.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And I literally had to go, wait, which one is that?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, I mean yeah, they don't I mean literally they
don't know what the players look like because they always
keep their helmets on, even in the end zone after
they score. So there was that, right, But then, like
I said, most importantly, I mean, who are these guys
as human beings? Right? What do they stand for? What
are they burn for? You know, Let's get to know
them and then let's express the important messages from the
(11:47):
NFL through them. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Let me stop you there for a second, because that
line between or not stop you, but let me ask
a question, the line between athlete, creator, influencer, it's blurring
right before our eyes. It is how do you and
you are in part of the helmets all strategy, I
presume is empowering the NFL players to to you know,
(12:14):
be their own content engines, but staying true to the
kind of brand values of the league because they are
whether you expect they are or not, they are the
ambassadors for the NFL. When they're out there in their
city clothes or in their helmets on, they're still the
ambassadors for the NFL in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, that's a really good point because it's not just
you know, putting them out there and having them speak.
Of course, you have to develop a relationship. You have
to earn a level of trust, right and credibility, and
you have to sort of see where you meet and
where you align and how those things can help the
players and then help the league and the clubs as well. Right,
So I think that understanding the things that are important
(12:56):
to them, that are the most intimate aspects of their
life and what their beliefs, and then you know, joining
his partners. I think that's important, right, as true partners,
as opposed to some kind of transactional relationship, and then
working together to help them be successful, not just on
the field, but also off the field. I mean, you
have to remember, Michael that most of these players only
(13:18):
last two or three years right in the NFL. So
it's a very short tenure that they have, and I think,
you know, obviously there are players out there who end
up playing into their late thirties and even you know,
like Tom Brady into his forties, but that's unusual, right,
and I think that we found a way to sort
of work with him, understand how they want to build
their brands and not always just connected to football, and
(13:41):
then help them be successful. And you know, for the
most part, because we know this is what our fans
care about. When our players care about, there are three
key verticals, music, fashion, and gaming. There are things outside
of that that are also important to our players, but
those are the three areas that happen to you know,
connect our players with their fans and of course the
league as well, and so we began to really embark
(14:03):
upon those verticals in finding fun, interesting ways to bring
that to life. And then, of course, as I said before,
the Force for Good part of our program. Again, these
players have either their own foundations or things that they
find very important to them on a very personal level,
and so we try to understand those things, align on
(14:24):
those things, and then help them spread the word to
the mass audience. And so where their platform, if you will,
right were their way to sort of get their passion
and their beliefs out to as many people as possible. Ultimately,
that's helped us have stronger relationships. It's built that level
of trust, and we've been able to do things that
we would not have been able to do. In fact,
(14:44):
we even sometimes bring them all together for these summits,
and I bring in some of the most influential voices
around social media and streaming companies and influencers and creators
to just help the players learn and and grow individually
and grow as a collective force. Again, I think the
players then provide feedback of what they want to do
(15:06):
in terms of their own individual platforms, and we do
our best to sort of be a support system for them.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to
share when you look at it through the brand side. Okay,
and again, Tim, your story career spans auto to gaming
(15:38):
to sports. I mean, you know you've worked for some
of the largest and most influential brands in the world,
whether it was Volvo or Volkswagen or Activision and NFL.
I mean, and you know that's just in what I
can remember from memory here, you certainly understand this better
than most if you're looking at the authenticity paradox, because
(16:02):
from a marketer's perspective today, you know, the bullshit detector
that the consumer has is at its highest level ever.
So authenticity is critical, especially for the holy grailed demographic
that I think everybody's looking for when they're working with creators,
i e. The athletes here, how do you ensure that
(16:22):
you know authenticity and yet you know, carrying forth the
brand and the brand ambassadors, even though they may be
doing it on their own, their brand ambassadors. It's what
I said a few minutes ago, how do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, I you know, you kind of nailed it already,
you know, use the word authentic or authenticity. And so
we never work with anyone on any kind of messaging
unless it's truly something that they get behind and have
a passion for. Okay, So as an example, all of
our influencers, they may have anywhere from two million to
you know, mister best one hundred and fifty million followers,
(16:57):
But if they don't like football, if they don't really
have a passion for a team or the league or whatever,
then we choose not to work with them, right, we
want to bring in these ambassadors who love the game,
and we're fortunate. I mean obviously not every brand has
that kind of you know, opportunity, but we do, and
we leverage that opportunity in a way to where Listen,
(17:18):
the best partnerships are the ones where you can't feel
any money changing hands. You can't smell it, you can't
feel it.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Right By the way, Tim, I'm going to use that,
that's a great I will give you credit, but that's
a great way to say it. You know, it's not
pay to play, but it is, but it has to
look like it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, And I think that that ultimately, these creators want
to work with us because we are trading, if you will,
experiences that money can't buy. Right, So we work with them. Again,
we don't try to over sort of like direct them
or be prescriptive on how they reach their audiences, what
things they do, and say, we just agree on, you know,
(17:55):
what are the experiences that you want in order to
sort of express you know, your passion to your own
fall in your own way, and we give them a
ton of freedom in which to do that. And then
on the other side with other players. Like I said,
on the one hand, we find out the things that
they burn for that they love and we get behind that.
And then we also like, you know, well, who would
you like to meet? Some of the programs that have
been the most successful are pairing players together with other
(18:19):
influencers and that could be gamers or musicians or you know, actors, whatever,
and bringing them together and allowing them to meet each
other and you know, share their experiences.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You anticipated my next question, Tim, what I was going
to drill down on is you know you the NFL
have leaned heavily into that intersection of sports, fashion, music, gaming, wellness,
Why do you think it's crucial? I think I have
an opinion, and I'm certain many of our listeners would,
(18:52):
but why do you think it's crucial for the NFL
to show up in these sort of non traditional spaces?
And I don't know that When I'm asked the question,
I almost want to rethink my question. I don't know
that they're non traditional, but surprising collapse, let me say
it that way.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Not necessarily what you would expect, right, And I think
that if you're going to broaden out your audience, if
you're going to sort of modernize your brand the perceptions
around your brand. You have to be willing to like
get out of your comfort zone. You have to be
willing to sort of, you know, embrace your casual audiences
and the things that they really care about. One of
(19:28):
the things that I really focused on, you know, throughout
this Helmet Self strategy was focusing pretty much almost every
program on our youth segments. I mean, listen, there are
three key acquisition targets that we follow in everything that
we do, and it's the youth, it's our latinos, and
it's girls and women. Right, That's it. And we do
(19:51):
that again through this Helmet Self strategy. But like embracing
these parts of our culture, which again there we know
that what our fans care about, we know that they're
what our players care about. We've been very successful in
attracting and bringing in new audiences and getting them to
think differently about the NFL, right, getting them to be
(20:12):
a little surprised that the NFL is behaving that way
and impressed. And it takes time, you know, you know,
I think initially when we started this strategy almost seven
years ago now, I think there were some skeptics and
I think that over time we have proved that this
is us right, and this is who we are as
a brand and is a group of players and clubs,
(20:33):
and ultimately that's helped bring in new audiences. The fastest
growing segments, I think, not coincidentally of our growth right
now are latinos and women and our youth. I mean,
those are the three segments that are driving our growth.
And by the way, now we are as of this year,
the highest number of fans ever in the history of
the NFL, and we are also have the highest perceptions
(20:56):
of the brand of the NFL ever. So you know,
the things that we have been doing have been working,
which just gives us more confidence and it really fuels
our momentum and our focus.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Let's talk about focus in a different way. You're focusing
on the NFL as arguably, and I don't think there's
any argument. So I don't know why I said arguably
the leading sports organization in the world, full stop. That
would be my opinion. But you are, at least my
understanding is you are spearheading efforts to grow the NFL internationally.
(21:30):
And obviously you've had the moments where you've played regular
season games and other markets and other things, which I
know it worked from what I understand, brilliantly in terms
of fan you know, appreciation and fan involvement, and as
well with the elevation as we talked earlier about flag football.
But how do you see that reshaping your global strategy
(21:52):
over the next couple of years. Let's look at a decade.
What would you expect.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, listen, if we step back a little bit, we
do very well obviously in the in the US we're
the biggest league by far, and you know, we continue
to grow every year. But let's face it, the real
growth is our opportunities internationally. We're not even on the
radar for a lot of you know, potential fans around
(22:18):
the world. We'd be lucky to be the tenth most
favorite sport in some countries, right you know. Obviously there
are certain countries like Mexico and our borders in Mexico
and Canada where we do quite well. And I think
that particularly in Europe Germany, we're starting to really get
some traction there and we're doing well, but we have
a long way to go. And it's really interesting for
(22:38):
me and I will go as far as to say fun,
fun for me because I spent a good deal of
my career doing nothing but pan European and global work.
I mean, I was spent twelve years in Europe doing
international campaigns, and I spent another seven at Activision doing
global work. So I've had, you know, nineteen years of
doing nothing but that, And so I have a sort
of a personal interest and passion for global work and
(23:01):
not just sort of finding a way to efficiently spread
your messages across the world, but to really have strong,
powerful communication which resonates in that culture in multiple cultures
around the world. So I think in many ways it's
easy to go out there and just get your message
out there. What's not easy is to actually break through
(23:21):
and be impactful and have really strong creative that resonates
with people on a cultural level in multiple markets. That's
not easy to do, and so that's our aim, and
we're doing it from a variety of perspectives. You mentioned
one which is Flag right, because there's no doubt the
best way to get somebody to be a fan is
through participation. Even in the US for example, that's why
(23:42):
we spend so much of our time on FLAG in
the US and obviously TACKLE in the US because your
four times is likely to become a fan if you
play the game right. We also know that if you
don't get someone to be a fan by the time
they're eighteen, you never will.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
It's something I learned early on tim somebody said to
me once you'll take this from your auto experience and
the brand they chose to make. The example was Mercedes.
You don't start to advertise the Mercedes to somebody when
they can afford it. We start to advertise somebody when
they should be aspiring.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
When they're reaching up. Yeah, obviously, some of the lessons
we learned with our younger audiences in the US. We're
using an appropriate way globally, but participation is important. So
we've got flag football programs throughout the world in our
key markets. We also have an international Pathway program which
is really exciting, which is essentially we go into key
parts of around the world and we have development programs
(24:35):
for young people whose dream is to play NFL. So
we help them grow and then we bring them back
into the US and then we prepare them to play
in college and then ultimately and to the NFL. And
we've been very successful with that, so, you know, helping
these young people realize their dreams, and playing the game
on the highest level has helped us create local stars
(24:58):
and help us create a level of interest, in awareness
and excitement in these markets. That's also been very important.
And then obviously we're we're playing the game in these countries,
so we don't we don't do exhibition games or you know,
preseason games. We make it a part of our league
games everywhere we're playing. They're real games, they're important games,
and we are Ultimately we're probably going to have up
(25:20):
to sixteen games that we play internationally. Last year, for
the first time, we played in Brazil. Next year, not
only will we play in Brazil again, we're also going
to play in Spain, in addition to Germany and to
the UK, and so I believe that we will be
successful around the world. But it's a heavy lift. We
have a lot of work to do. But you know, man,
(25:41):
it's fun watching, you know, watching how people get excited
about the game. And I think we had like four
million people on the list in Germany who wanted to
watch that game, and of course you only have like
sixty five thousand people who could see it. But it's
you know, it's incredible the level of interest that we
already see.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Jim, I want to switch gears for a moment. You know,
this is about getting to note tim Ellis as a
marketer and a brilliant one, and tim Ellis as a
person and I'll use a word that maybe has to translate,
but as a mensch, as a good man who has
commitment and is purpose driven. So let's talk about the
(26:16):
Big Brothers Big Sisters because you and I participated recently
in a change maker's challenge to really get the word
out and you put the power and force and magic
of the NFL, and thank you for that behind it
to help tell this story at a time when people's
eyes were focused and everybody was focused on New Orleans.
(26:37):
But you know the idea of change makers. Maybe give
us a little background on why something like Big Brothers
Big Sisters is so important to tim Ellis personally.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Listen. It's about helping people who otherwise wouldn't be able
to do these things without our support, right, Like these
people are young people. Right. So I was at a
big mark marketing conference in Canada called the Gathering, and
and I saw artist Stevens, who was the CEO of
Big Brothers, Big sisters get up and speak. And of
(27:10):
course my first reaction was like, well, they're a big
partner of the NFL is, I definitely want to hear
what artists has to say. But I was so inspired
by the way that he laid out his vision and
the mission of Big Brothers Big Sisters. You know, I
learned a lot of things that I even didn't know
even though we were partners through that experience, and so
(27:30):
I immediately afterwards came in and spoke to him and say, Hey,
we got to get together. I want to hear more,
and I want, you know, what can I do? What
else can I do to help? And of course, you
know the scene of the NFL says that to you
if you're artists, and like, oh, there's a lot you
can do.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, the right question, but the wrong question.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah. So I you know, I listened intently and when
he talked about, you know, the impact that this program
was having on young people, the KPIs and the metrics
that he had in terms of changing line and having
kids go on and finish their education and go to
school and not only change their own lives, but change
the lives around them, right, the people around them as well.
(28:10):
I just began, Wow, this is so incredible. I've just
got to use everything I can on a personal level
and on a professional level in an appropriate way to
grow this, to help grow this right, to spread the
word and to intensify and to reach out to people
and touch their hearts and get them to act right,
to get them to really want to help and jump in.
(28:32):
And I think that when I look at the results
of what we did, for example and the Super Bowl,
when I look at the results of what we did
to get more bigs through the draft. So we have
a program together with Big Brothers, Big Sisters on the Draft, which,
if you don't know, the draft is an incredible platform
(28:53):
for us at the NFL. I mean, it is the
third most talked about event of the year, only behind
the Super Bowl and the Grammys. It used to be
a business meeting in New York where the the you
know that the owners in the league would come together
and pick players. And now it's become this massive, you know,
cultural event that you know, we just keep pouring into.
We just keep making it bigger and bigger and more powerful.
(29:15):
And what a perfect place to use to draft new bigs,
to get littles.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I have a similar story, Tim obviously when I met artists,
and I'll put a bit of a Jerry Maguire spin
on it. Speaking to you, he had me at hello.
I mean, it's hard not to he's he's so damn
compelling because the story matters. And you know, I'm proud
of this fact. I've never officially been a big, right,
(29:40):
but I feel like I've been a big to many
people my whole life in different ways. In mentorship and
the satisfaction ones gets when you see that, when you
see that person you know, get that next move, get
that next opportunity, take advantage of it. Nothing makes your heart,
you know, bigger and makes you feel better that you
(30:01):
can actually, as an individual, make a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I'm the same way, Michael. I'm not only part of
formal mentor programs together with like the ad Counsel and
some others ad Week, but I literally choose people who
write to me, like on LinkedIn, for example, and I
choose to mentor them. You know, I'm constantly talking with
young people to help share my own experiences and hopefully
(30:24):
wisdom to help them. And so I just say I'm
a big believer in the power of mentorship. If you
really lean in, if you think about it, there's so
many people out there who could benefit from your experiences
in your knowledge.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Good company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
All things tech. I mean, I don't even know if
treasure trove is descriptive enough. But with the treasure trove
of data that you have at the NFL, just because
of your interaction with your fan base, can you give
a specific example of a place where that data influenced
or changed a marketing decision or a campaign direction, or
(31:23):
something to do with the game itself. Did it come
from data? You know? And let me qualify that question
a bit. I've spoken to studio heads over the years
as data became more important, and I say, you know,
the famous studio heads of a television network or a
movie studio. They talk about that person who might have
a golden gut, you know, the gut feeling of what's
(31:45):
going to work and what's going to not work in content.
And I've said to those people who are famously known
as the golden guts, the green light people, if you
will in content, now that you have data that can
help define help you in that thought process, are you
letting the data decide or are you still relying on
your gut So I'd ask you the same question.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, well, I think the data feeds your gut, right.
I don't think it makes your decisions. It certainly leads
you to say the right things at the right time
to the right person. Let me put it this way.
Knowing things about people obviously helps you connect with them
and say things to them that are truly relevant and meaningful.
We gather as much important information and insight as possible,
(32:31):
and then we use that in our outreach. I mean
ultimately as a marketer, whether it's a big Super Bowl
spot or it's an email or a text message, anything
that will get you in a more intimate relationship with
your customer is powerful, right, And so you can have
mass intimacy through a big campaign, or you can have
(32:51):
mass intimacy by reaching twenty thirty forty million people through
a really smart targeted, you know, one to one campaign.
And I think that that's how we approach it. And
when it comes to things like AI to me, I mean,
it's a fascinating opportunity right now for all of us
in the marketing industry, Like, how can you use the
most bleeding edge technologies including AI to sort of efficiently
(33:15):
and effectively reach your audiences with the most meaningful message possible.
And that's really what we're doing. I mean, just as
a simple example, simply by understanding what a fans favorite
team is significantly drives their willingness to open and then
act based on the message that you just sent them.
So yes, we continue to get more data, but better data, right,
(33:39):
and more powerful data through understanding our fans and understanding
when and how we can act with them and then
offer some value through that interaction. Of course, the first
thing people think about is how is this going to
replace creativity or how is it going to replace people's
jobs and things like that. I choose to focus on
the things that I know will help me do my
job better, meaning that I can reach more people, more
(34:02):
effectively and efficiently, create more intimacy with those fans, and
ultimately make their experience of taking in my marketing in
a better way. I care about people's time. I care about,
you know, their level of enjoyment when they take in
our message. I mean, for goodness sake, the reason I
got into the out industry in the first place. In
the marketing industry, I thought it was so freaking bad.
(34:25):
I thought it was terrible out there, and I wanted
to improve that experience through advertising and marketing. And ultimately,
how I've really, I think been successful in my career
is that I use high creativity and cutting edge technology
to make that experience of taking my message really truly
fun and expiring, you know, with a level of emotion,
(34:46):
and ultimately, I think that that's helped me move businesses
and move brands.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You just ended on a great note, which was you
talked about art and science without saying the two words.
You talked about creativity and technology coming to together, and
that is the ultimate marriage of art and science. And
you know, Tim, you are such a old face manifestation
of that. I applaud you for that. I get to
(35:12):
now have my most fun, which is the part of
this conversation where I get to just throw some questions
at you that you have no idea about, not part
of our prep in any way, shape or form. It's
my favorite part. It's the lightning round and I just
get to throw some shit your way and see what sticks.
How's that?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Okay, I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Okay, what's one small habit in your daily routine that
brings you unexpected. Joy.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I don't take the same way to the subway every day.
I take different streets and different direction every day just
to experience something different. Takes me ten minutes sometime longer
to get to the subway than the subway takes me
directly to the office. But I take a different street,
different way every time, just to kind of, yeah, shake
it up.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Well. I like that. I like that. If you could
give your younger self one piece of advice, Tim, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
To really believe in your sort of gut instincts that
exploration is key to the happiness of life, you know,
like curiosity and exploration. I think I spent many, many
years exploring, but I was always a little bit sort
of wondering whether I was wasting time, or whether I
was being responsible and so forth. And now I realized
(36:24):
that I would never be where I am today had
I not really listened to that voice in my head
that said keep exploring, keep curious, and keep going.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I like that. Jim, if you had twenty four hours
with no restrictions, is there an adventure you'd embark on
in that twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I like to walk and climb. My brother calls me
a billy goat, so like you know what I mean, myself,
I may start to use that. I just like to
get out there and just walk and explore and find
things like me. Whether it be, you know, walking ten
miles through a part of Paris that I haven't seen,
or part of New York, or whether it's climbing a
(37:02):
mountain and seeing things I haven't seen on a foggy day,
or something that to me is just heaven.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Now I'm coming back to a word we've used quite
a bit on in this conversation. Who was your mentor
early in your career? And is there a particular piece
of advice that one or multiple people gave you, and
is there something you could share with us.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, I'll give you a simple, practical one, which again
I think gets back to my decision to see the
world and explore. Most people don't know this about me,
but I actually didn't even go to school until I
was in my mid twenties, and that's because I spent
all my early twenties traveling the world. I met a
guy I was living in Paris, and I went to
Israel to work on a kibbutz there because I met
(37:46):
somebody who said, hey, you can go there and they'll
put you on a kibbutz and you can have a
really wonderful adventure. I thought, wow, that sounds cool. So
I just got a one way ticket and I went there,
and I met this guy from New Zealand, and again
I was struggling with I really want to keep going
and travel and see the world, but should I get
back and so forth. And he said, Tim, you're twenty
years old. You spend the next five years of your
(38:07):
life seeing the world and give yourself that sort of break.
Take that off your shoulders of being worried about it,
and just embrace it and see the world. You're still
going to be young men. You're still going to have
time to do anything you want to do in your life.
At the age of twenty five. I thought, Jesus, that's
just so smart, and that's exactly what I want to do.
And so I took that guy's advice and I just
(38:29):
spent those five years. I lived all over the world.
I did all kinds of different jobs, and I had
the most amazing experiences and I learned so much. I
read voraciously and I talked to people and learned shit
that I maybe would have never learned otherwise. And again,
I just think that that advice was the stuff that
propelled me and has made me the person I am today.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
It's one of my pet peeves because in this country
people didn't do what Europeans did, at least back in
the day. The idea of a gap year. Yeah, it
around When someone said, well, Michael, didn't you have a
gap year? I said, well, no, I had a gap minute.
I went from college to law school, to graduate school,
to marry, to kids, to you know, the full So
(39:10):
I had a gap minute. But I think that that's
such a brilliant message to share, whether it's five years
or you know less, the idea of that gap year,
that concept is such an important gift if you can
do it.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah. I think also embrace what you love. Right Like
at that time of my life, I just wanted to
see the world. That's what I really wanted to do.
I had passion around that, so I just decided like,
oh man, I'm going for it. I'm going to do it,
and I did. I mean, my god, during that period,
I think I visited over fifty countries during that period,
but I never done any job that I didn't love
the product or service. Right. I always followed my heart
(39:48):
when it came to things that I cared about. I
love cars, I love video games, and I love football.
And that just so happens that I spent most of
my career doing those three things.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
That's like saying to me, you just nailed it. That's
like sex, drugs, and rock and roll. You got a ball,
You nailed the three things. You know, You're a gear head,
you're a gamer, and you love in the NFL. I mean,
come on, yeah, that's a trifecta.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
But it and those things are all still a part
of my life, you know, And I really believe in that.
I think that you come to work and it's something
that you care about and that you really want to
do your best to drive the company's success. It never
gets old, right, And I think that to me, if
it starts getting old, then you better move on. I
tend to pick the places where I want to go,
and then I really dig in and I do everything
(40:35):
in my power that when I leave, people know that
I left something behind.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Well, Tim, I'm happy to say you didn't leave anything
behind on this conversation. I so appreciate the breath and
depth of this conversation, the candor of it, and I
appreciate you. Tim Ellis. I want to thank you for
joining me today on Good Company and just keep it up, buddy.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Thank you, Michael, and I, by the way, I love
that title good company.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Well you define it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I'm Michael Casson, Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced
and edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll
see you next time.
Good Company is a production of iHeartRadio, and.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have a dual prong strategy. One side of it
is to focus on the enjoyment of the game, and
on the other side of it's how do we transcend
the game? How do we use our leverage and our
power and our influence to actually work as a uniter
and bring people together.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm Michael Cassen, and this is Good Company. Together we'll
explore the dynamic intersection of media, marketing, entertainment, sports and technology.
I'll be joined by visionaries, pioneers, and yes, even a
couple of disruptors for candid conversations as we break down
how these masters of ingenuity are shaping the future of business,
culture and everything in between. My bet is you'll pick
(00:45):
up a lesson or two along the way. As I
like to say, it's all good. Welcome to Good Company.
If you've ever wondered what it takes to not just
survive in today's hyper competitive marketing landscape, but to truly
thrive and redefine culture, you're in for a treat. My
guest today is someone who's done exactly that. Tim Ellis
(01:07):
is the chief marketing officer of the National Football League
under his leadership, the NFL has entered what many are
calling a true renaissance. At a time when other leagues
are fighting to retain viewers, the NFL is expanding its
reach across the globe, deepening its connections with the younger,
more diverse fans, and forging powerful partnerships across fashion, music, gaming,
(01:29):
and tech. Tim's vision isn't just transforming the league, it's
transforming the business of sports. In today's conversation, we'll dive
deep into how he's humanizing the NFL brand, the bold
moves being made to engage new audiences, the future of
fan culture, and maybe even what's next for flag football worldwide.
(01:51):
This one's packed with insights and inspiration. Let's dive in. Tim,
Thanks for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Thank you Michael, what a pleasure. This is going to
be great.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Tim. The last time I saw you in person, I
think was in New Orleans. The Super Bowl isn't just
a game. It's a global marketing moment. It brings the
world together in a way that nothing else really can.
And looking back at this year, I would ask you,
because I always like to look at risk reward. The
reward was great, but what was the biggest risk. You
(02:22):
think you took this year with marketing strategy and did
it pay off?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah? I think Listen, it was good. We all knew
that with a political election year that you know, you
often have people who are very distracted and not really
focusing on anything, even sports, believe it or not. And
we've even seen historically every four years during the election
that we lost viewers, and we were really adamant about that.
We're not going to go backwards this year, and in fact,
(02:49):
we're also not going to shrink in any way from
our normal programs. We're going to go ahead. We're going
to move ahead, and we're going to actually take this
opportunity and grow our position and grow our brand, grow
the equity around the brand, and ultimately have our most
successful year ever. And I think a lot of that
came down to, you know, being consistent with the programs
that we had had and also leaning in. As an example,
(03:11):
we decided to do a big get out the vote campaign. Obviously,
it was a very divisive election and a lot of
passion on both sides, and so we decided our appropriate
sort of role there was to actually encourage people to
unite and come together and vote. You exercise your civic
right to vote. We decided that we were going to
move forward and be as powerful as possible and to
(03:34):
live according to our values and do the things that
we knew that the NFL could do, which is ultimately
uniting people in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
You know, Tim, let me say it firsthand as a
citizen of this country and as somebody who was there live.
You did it, and you're delivered across the board. If
those were the KPIs, as we like to talk about
in marketing, that you hit the KPIs because you embraced
it in such a way, and you know, you said
(04:02):
something about you've made a decision to double down. That's
the marketer in you. Because I look at this and
I remember speaking with a very very famous global marketer,
somebody who kind of moves markets when he speaks. He
said to me, in trouble times, this particular company's marketing
strategy is not to pull back, but to double down,
(04:23):
because that's the time you can get market share. You
get more market share if you double down when the
other folks are leaning back, and that's obviously working for you.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of brands and
marketers who try to survive those challenging years, and we
always look at it as an opportunity to actually grow
our position, right, to sort of do the things that
we would normally do, but do them better, do them more.
And I think that ultimately people remember that. Listen, it's
(04:53):
all about art and commercialism, right, That's what we do
in marketing, and art takes courage. And I'm very proud
of what we did. I mean, we are super Bowl alone, right,
the spots that we did. We did one big powerful
spot called I Am Somebody, which turned out to be
one of the top five spots I think in every
roundup they had about, you know, the best spots out there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You know, May I speak to that personally, Tim, because
I want to bring it back to what I said
when I introduced you. This is about who Tim Ellis
is as a person. It's kind of like when you say,
when people talk to me about show business, I always
remind them, remember there's two words there. There's the show
and there's the business. When I talk about Tim Ellis,
I'm going to talk about him as a world famous,
(05:34):
boldfaced named chief marketing officer, but I'm going to talk
about you as a person. Your involvement with Big Brothers
Big Sisters and the importance of that, and the fact
that you were able to figure out a way, and
I applaud you for this to have Big Brothers Big
Sisters featured in that spot. It wasn't product placement, but
it was in its surest form, But it was product
(05:57):
placement that was so perfect for what you needed to
do at the NFL, in my opinion, and what we
needed at Big Brothers Big Sisters to continue to drum
beat of the importance of mentorship and the importance of
everything that Big Brothers Big Sisters stand for. So the
merger of those two things is kind of like, as
I said, the show and the business. You had the
(06:19):
marketing and you have the heart.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Listen these moments you have to really think, well, where
do we all come together? Where do we unite? I
think if we can't all agree that our young people
need our support through mentorship, then what are we doing right?
So I think that what we chose to do is
let's focus on things that are very important that really
need our support, deserve our support, and let's do it
(06:42):
in a powerful way that truly touches people's hearts and
brings them together, and I think, ultimately, you know, that's
what sports leads can do. I think, because we are
the biggest and the most influential sport in the country,
that is something that is really our responsibility. You know,
I look at this part of ours of course for good.
I mean, I have a dual prong strategy at the NFL.
(07:03):
One one side of it is to sort of like
focus on the enjoyment of the game, right, and then
on the other side of it's how do we transcend
the game. How do we use our leverage and our
power and our influence to actually work as a uniter
and bring people together. And ultimately the Super Bowl is
the master expression of that strategy. We had one, you know,
(07:24):
really fun, exciting spot around the emergence of girls flag
football in America, and we've been a big part of
growing that sport and getting the momentum and really getting
it essentially as a conversation topic at the dinner table. Right.
For a while there, people weren't at home, maybe weren't
talking about football like they used to twenty thirty years ago.
(07:44):
But now we've given them an opportunity to actually gather
around and embrace football in the family through you know Flag,
particularly girls flag, which is you know, the most inclusive
expression of our game. And now we've got tremendous momentum
in that sport. It's going to be the LA twenty
eight Olympics and hopefully in Brisbane four years afterwards. It's
(08:06):
one of the fastest coming sports in the country. It's
literally doublest participation in less than a year, and I
think that has all come from us working closely with
our clubs and with our partners in the country, and
to be honest, now internationally it's very exciting. So you know,
you have this big opportunity in the Super Bowl. You
have one very powerful spot around uniting the country around
(08:29):
mentorship with this I think beautiful spot shot in New
Orleans called I Am Somebody. And then a very fun
exciting spot would called Flag fifty because we're looking to
get Flags sanctioned in all fifty states in the country
and we're well on our way to getting there, and
so you know, I think ultimately together, I was really
(08:49):
proud and excited about the impact and the response of
that work.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
And I applaud you for that, as I know the
market does. You've talked about the audience and the fans,
But the other constituent you have obviously are the players.
Those are the assets. That's the bread and butter this
program that you've championed, the Helmets Off approach. I'd love
for you to kind of shine a light on that
for our audience because the idea of humanizing these iconic
(09:17):
figures to many people, the athletes, again, the assets that
you have at the NFL. Could you talk about what
the Helmet's Off approach is hoping to achieve and is
it doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Yeah? You know, when I joined the NFL, there were
a lot of things that I knew immediately that I
wanted to do. In fact, believe it or not, the
strategy that we're on today, the helmet cell strategy, is
something that I laid out in my first interview with
the NFL. I was working at Activision and I've been
there for seven years. It was a great experience, and
at that time we were bringing interactive entertainment from the
(09:53):
basement into mainstream entertainment and it was really a great period.
I wasn't looking at anything to do, but then I
heard through a you know, executive search agency, that they
were looking for the new CMO of the NFL, and
I immediately jumped on that because I'm a big fan myself.
And then number two, it was a period of the
NFL where they really needed some guidance. It was at
(10:14):
a real low point, right. Their audiences were beginning to dwindle,
particularly the younger audiences. They were losing a lot of
their ambassadors in the entertainment industry, and you know, they
were having a tough time with some of the things
going on together with their players, right And I knew
because there was rightfully so, there was a lot of
protests at that time by the players, and the NFL
(10:37):
had made some mistakes there in terms of how they
were working with the players. And so when I came
to them and I said, hey, the number one thing
that we need to do here is to utilize let's
just call it the helmets OLV strategy, where essentially you're
putting the players at the forefront of everything that you
do and you're humanizing the game. Right And obviously, in football,
(10:59):
most people don't even know what the players look like, right,
So from a very practical perspective, get them to know
and even recognize the players. You had to get their
helmets off. But even more importantly was like.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
By the way, tim, I was at a meeting the
other night, having a drink with somebody at a hotel,
and there was a manning in the audience, literally in
the bar, and I said, wait is that? Which one
is that?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah? And that's the most famous family in football right now, right.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And I literally had to go, wait, which one is that?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, I mean yeah, they don't I mean literally they
don't know what the players look like because they always
keep their helmets on, even in the end zone after
they score. So there was that, right, But then, like
I said, most importantly, I mean, who are these guys
as human beings? Right? What do they stand for? What
are they burn for? You know, Let's get to know
them and then let's express the important messages from the
(11:47):
NFL through them. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Let me stop you there for a second, because that
line between or not stop you, but let me ask
a question, the line between athlete, creator, influencer, it's blurring
right before our eyes. It is how do you and
you are in part of the helmets all strategy, I
presume is empowering the NFL players to to you know,
(12:14):
be their own content engines, but staying true to the
kind of brand values of the league because they are
whether you expect they are or not, they are the
ambassadors for the NFL. When they're out there in their
city clothes or in their helmets on, they're still the
ambassadors for the NFL in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Yeah, that's a really good point because it's not just
you know, putting them out there and having them speak.
Of course, you have to develop a relationship. You have
to earn a level of trust, right and credibility, and
you have to sort of see where you meet and
where you align and how those things can help the
players and then help the league and the clubs as well. Right,
So I think that understanding the things that are important
(12:56):
to them, that are the most intimate aspects of their
life and what their beliefs, and then you know, joining
his partners. I think that's important, right, as true partners,
as opposed to some kind of transactional relationship, and then
working together to help them be successful, not just on
the field, but also off the field. I mean, you
have to remember, Michael that most of these players only
(13:18):
last two or three years right in the NFL. So
it's a very short tenure that they have, and I think,
you know, obviously there are players out there who end
up playing into their late thirties and even you know,
like Tom Brady into his forties, but that's unusual, right,
and I think that we found a way to sort
of work with him, understand how they want to build
their brands and not always just connected to football, and
(13:41):
then help them be successful. And you know, for the
most part, because we know this is what our fans
care about. When our players care about, there are three
key verticals, music, fashion, and gaming. There are things outside
of that that are also important to our players, but
those are the three areas that happen to you know,
connect our players with their fans and of course the
league as well, and so we began to really embark
(14:03):
upon those verticals in finding fun, interesting ways to bring
that to life. And then, of course, as I said before,
the Force for Good part of our program. Again, these
players have either their own foundations or things that they
find very important to them on a very personal level,
and so we try to understand those things, align on
(14:24):
those things, and then help them spread the word to
the mass audience. And so where their platform, if you will,
right were their way to sort of get their passion
and their beliefs out to as many people as possible. Ultimately,
that's helped us have stronger relationships. It's built that level
of trust, and we've been able to do things that
we would not have been able to do. In fact,
(14:44):
we even sometimes bring them all together for these summits,
and I bring in some of the most influential voices
around social media and streaming companies and influencers and creators
to just help the players learn and and grow individually
and grow as a collective force. Again, I think the
players then provide feedback of what they want to do
(15:06):
in terms of their own individual platforms, and we do
our best to sort of be a support system for them.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
We're going to hit pause for a moment, but stay
with us after the break. We've got more insights to
share when you look at it through the brand side. Okay,
and again, Tim, your story career spans auto to gaming
(15:38):
to sports. I mean, you know you've worked for some
of the largest and most influential brands in the world,
whether it was Volvo or Volkswagen or Activision and NFL.
I mean, and you know that's just in what I
can remember from memory here, you certainly understand this better
than most if you're looking at the authenticity paradox, because
(16:02):
from a marketer's perspective today, you know, the bullshit detector
that the consumer has is at its highest level ever.
So authenticity is critical, especially for the holy grailed demographic
that I think everybody's looking for when they're working with creators,
i e. The athletes here, how do you ensure that
(16:22):
you know authenticity and yet you know, carrying forth the
brand and the brand ambassadors, even though they may be
doing it on their own, their brand ambassadors. It's what
I said a few minutes ago, how do you manage that?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well, I you know, you kind of nailed it already,
you know, use the word authentic or authenticity. And so
we never work with anyone on any kind of messaging
unless it's truly something that they get behind and have
a passion for. Okay, So as an example, all of
our influencers, they may have anywhere from two million to
you know, mister best one hundred and fifty million followers,
(16:57):
But if they don't like football, if they don't really
have a passion for a team or the league or whatever,
then we choose not to work with them, right, we
want to bring in these ambassadors who love the game,
and we're fortunate. I mean obviously not every brand has
that kind of you know, opportunity, but we do, and
we leverage that opportunity in a way to where Listen,
(17:18):
the best partnerships are the ones where you can't feel
any money changing hands. You can't smell it, you can't
feel it.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Right By the way, Tim, I'm going to use that,
that's a great I will give you credit, but that's
a great way to say it. You know, it's not
pay to play, but it is, but it has to
look like it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah, And I think that that ultimately, these creators want
to work with us because we are trading, if you will,
experiences that money can't buy. Right, So we work with them. Again,
we don't try to over sort of like direct them
or be prescriptive on how they reach their audiences, what
things they do, and say, we just agree on, you know,
(17:55):
what are the experiences that you want in order to
sort of express you know, your passion to your own
fall in your own way, and we give them a
ton of freedom in which to do that. And then
on the other side with other players. Like I said,
on the one hand, we find out the things that
they burn for that they love and we get behind that.
And then we also like, you know, well, who would
you like to meet? Some of the programs that have
been the most successful are pairing players together with other
(18:19):
influencers and that could be gamers or musicians or you know, actors, whatever,
and bringing them together and allowing them to meet each
other and you know, share their experiences.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
You anticipated my next question, Tim, what I was going
to drill down on is you know you the NFL
have leaned heavily into that intersection of sports, fashion, music, gaming, wellness,
Why do you think it's crucial? I think I have
an opinion, and I'm certain many of our listeners would,
(18:52):
but why do you think it's crucial for the NFL
to show up in these sort of non traditional spaces?
And I don't know that When I'm asked the question,
I almost want to rethink my question. I don't know
that they're non traditional, but surprising collapse, let me say
it that way.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Not necessarily what you would expect, right, And I think
that if you're going to broaden out your audience, if
you're going to sort of modernize your brand the perceptions
around your brand. You have to be willing to like
get out of your comfort zone. You have to be
willing to sort of, you know, embrace your casual audiences
and the things that they really care about. One of
(19:28):
the things that I really focused on, you know, throughout
this Helmet Self strategy was focusing pretty much almost every
program on our youth segments. I mean, listen, there are
three key acquisition targets that we follow in everything that
we do, and it's the youth, it's our latinos, and
it's girls and women. Right, That's it. And we do
(19:51):
that again through this Helmet Self strategy. But like embracing
these parts of our culture, which again there we know
that what our fans care about, we know that they're
what our players care about. We've been very successful in
attracting and bringing in new audiences and getting them to
think differently about the NFL, right, getting them to be
(20:12):
a little surprised that the NFL is behaving that way
and impressed. And it takes time, you know, you know,
I think initially when we started this strategy almost seven
years ago now, I think there were some skeptics and
I think that over time we have proved that this
is us right, and this is who we are as
a brand and is a group of players and clubs,
(20:33):
and ultimately that's helped bring in new audiences. The fastest
growing segments, I think, not coincidentally of our growth right
now are latinos and women and our youth. I mean,
those are the three segments that are driving our growth.
And by the way, now we are as of this year,
the highest number of fans ever in the history of
the NFL, and we are also have the highest perceptions
(20:56):
of the brand of the NFL ever. So you know,
the things that we have been doing have been working,
which just gives us more confidence and it really fuels
our momentum and our focus.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Let's talk about focus in a different way. You're focusing
on the NFL as arguably, and I don't think there's
any argument. So I don't know why I said arguably
the leading sports organization in the world, full stop. That
would be my opinion. But you are, at least my
understanding is you are spearheading efforts to grow the NFL internationally.
(21:30):
And obviously you've had the moments where you've played regular
season games and other markets and other things, which I
know it worked from what I understand, brilliantly in terms
of fan you know, appreciation and fan involvement, and as
well with the elevation as we talked earlier about flag football.
But how do you see that reshaping your global strategy
(21:52):
over the next couple of years. Let's look at a decade.
What would you expect.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, listen, if we step back a little bit, we
do very well obviously in the in the US we're
the biggest league by far, and you know, we continue
to grow every year. But let's face it, the real
growth is our opportunities internationally. We're not even on the
radar for a lot of you know, potential fans around
(22:18):
the world. We'd be lucky to be the tenth most
favorite sport in some countries, right you know. Obviously there
are certain countries like Mexico and our borders in Mexico
and Canada where we do quite well. And I think
that particularly in Europe Germany, we're starting to really get
some traction there and we're doing well, but we have
a long way to go. And it's really interesting for
(22:38):
me and I will go as far as to say fun,
fun for me because I spent a good deal of
my career doing nothing but pan European and global work.
I mean, I was spent twelve years in Europe doing
international campaigns, and I spent another seven at Activision doing
global work. So I've had, you know, nineteen years of
doing nothing but that, And so I have a sort
of a personal interest and passion for global work and
(23:01):
not just sort of finding a way to efficiently spread
your messages across the world, but to really have strong,
powerful communication which resonates in that culture in multiple cultures
around the world. So I think in many ways it's
easy to go out there and just get your message
out there. What's not easy is to actually break through
(23:21):
and be impactful and have really strong creative that resonates
with people on a cultural level in multiple markets. That's
not easy to do, and so that's our aim, and
we're doing it from a variety of perspectives. You mentioned
one which is Flag right, because there's no doubt the
best way to get somebody to be a fan is
through participation. Even in the US for example, that's why
(23:42):
we spend so much of our time on FLAG in
the US and obviously TACKLE in the US because your
four times is likely to become a fan if you
play the game right. We also know that if you
don't get someone to be a fan by the time
they're eighteen, you never will.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
It's something I learned early on tim somebody said to
me once you'll take this from your auto experience and
the brand they chose to make. The example was Mercedes.
You don't start to advertise the Mercedes to somebody when
they can afford it. We start to advertise somebody when
they should be aspiring.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
When they're reaching up. Yeah, obviously, some of the lessons
we learned with our younger audiences in the US. We're
using an appropriate way globally, but participation is important. So
we've got flag football programs throughout the world in our
key markets. We also have an international Pathway program which
is really exciting, which is essentially we go into key
parts of around the world and we have development programs
(24:35):
for young people whose dream is to play NFL. So
we help them grow and then we bring them back
into the US and then we prepare them to play
in college and then ultimately and to the NFL. And
we've been very successful with that, so, you know, helping
these young people realize their dreams, and playing the game
on the highest level has helped us create local stars
(24:58):
and help us create a level of interest, in awareness
and excitement in these markets. That's also been very important.
And then obviously we're we're playing the game in these countries,
so we don't we don't do exhibition games or you know,
preseason games. We make it a part of our league
games everywhere we're playing. They're real games, they're important games,
and we are Ultimately we're probably going to have up
(25:20):
to sixteen games that we play internationally. Last year, for
the first time, we played in Brazil. Next year, not
only will we play in Brazil again, we're also going
to play in Spain, in addition to Germany and to
the UK, and so I believe that we will be
successful around the world. But it's a heavy lift. We
have a lot of work to do. But you know, man,
(25:41):
it's fun watching, you know, watching how people get excited
about the game. And I think we had like four
million people on the list in Germany who wanted to
watch that game, and of course you only have like
sixty five thousand people who could see it. But it's
you know, it's incredible the level of interest that we
already see.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Jim, I want to switch gears for a moment. You know,
this is about getting to note tim Ellis as a
marketer and a brilliant one, and tim Ellis as a
person and I'll use a word that maybe has to translate,
but as a mensch, as a good man who has
commitment and is purpose driven. So let's talk about the
(26:16):
Big Brothers Big Sisters because you and I participated recently
in a change maker's challenge to really get the word
out and you put the power and force and magic
of the NFL, and thank you for that behind it
to help tell this story at a time when people's
eyes were focused and everybody was focused on New Orleans.
(26:37):
But you know the idea of change makers. Maybe give
us a little background on why something like Big Brothers
Big Sisters is so important to tim Ellis personally.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Listen. It's about helping people who otherwise wouldn't be able
to do these things without our support, right, Like these
people are young people. Right. So I was at a
big mark marketing conference in Canada called the Gathering, and
and I saw artist Stevens, who was the CEO of
Big Brothers, Big sisters get up and speak. And of
(27:10):
course my first reaction was like, well, they're a big
partner of the NFL is, I definitely want to hear
what artists has to say. But I was so inspired
by the way that he laid out his vision and
the mission of Big Brothers Big Sisters. You know, I
learned a lot of things that I even didn't know
even though we were partners through that experience, and so
(27:30):
I immediately afterwards came in and spoke to him and say, Hey,
we got to get together. I want to hear more,
and I want, you know, what can I do? What
else can I do to help? And of course, you
know the scene of the NFL says that to you
if you're artists, and like, oh, there's a lot you
can do.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, the right question, but the wrong question.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah. So I you know, I listened intently and when
he talked about, you know, the impact that this program
was having on young people, the KPIs and the metrics
that he had in terms of changing line and having
kids go on and finish their education and go to
school and not only change their own lives, but change
the lives around them, right, the people around them as well.
(28:10):
I just began, Wow, this is so incredible. I've just
got to use everything I can on a personal level
and on a professional level in an appropriate way to
grow this, to help grow this right, to spread the
word and to intensify and to reach out to people
and touch their hearts and get them to act right,
to get them to really want to help and jump in.
(28:32):
And I think that when I look at the results
of what we did, for example and the Super Bowl,
when I look at the results of what we did
to get more bigs through the draft. So we have
a program together with Big Brothers, Big Sisters on the Draft, which,
if you don't know, the draft is an incredible platform
(28:53):
for us at the NFL. I mean, it is the
third most talked about event of the year, only behind
the Super Bowl and the Grammys. It used to be
a business meeting in New York where the the you
know that the owners in the league would come together
and pick players. And now it's become this massive, you know,
cultural event that you know, we just keep pouring into.
We just keep making it bigger and bigger and more powerful.
(29:15):
And what a perfect place to use to draft new bigs,
to get littles.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I have a similar story, Tim obviously when I met artists,
and I'll put a bit of a Jerry Maguire spin
on it. Speaking to you, he had me at hello.
I mean, it's hard not to he's he's so damn
compelling because the story matters. And you know, I'm proud
of this fact. I've never officially been a big, right,
(29:40):
but I feel like I've been a big to many
people my whole life in different ways. In mentorship and
the satisfaction ones gets when you see that, when you
see that person you know, get that next move, get
that next opportunity, take advantage of it. Nothing makes your heart,
you know, bigger and makes you feel better that you
(30:01):
can actually, as an individual, make a difference.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I'm the same way, Michael. I'm not only part of
formal mentor programs together with like the ad Counsel and
some others ad Week, but I literally choose people who
write to me, like on LinkedIn, for example, and I
choose to mentor them. You know, I'm constantly talking with
young people to help share my own experiences and hopefully
(30:24):
wisdom to help them. And so I just say I'm
a big believer in the power of mentorship. If you
really lean in, if you think about it, there's so
many people out there who could benefit from your experiences
in your knowledge.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Good company will be right back after the break.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
All things tech. I mean, I don't even know if
treasure trove is descriptive enough. But with the treasure trove
of data that you have at the NFL, just because
of your interaction with your fan base, can you give
a specific example of a place where that data influenced
or changed a marketing decision or a campaign direction, or
(31:23):
something to do with the game itself. Did it come
from data? You know? And let me qualify that question
a bit. I've spoken to studio heads over the years
as data became more important, and I say, you know,
the famous studio heads of a television network or a
movie studio. They talk about that person who might have
a golden gut, you know, the gut feeling of what's
(31:45):
going to work and what's going to not work in content.
And I've said to those people who are famously known
as the golden guts, the green light people, if you
will in content, now that you have data that can
help define help you in that thought process, are you
letting the data decide or are you still relying on
your gut So I'd ask you the same question.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, well, I think the data feeds your gut, right.
I don't think it makes your decisions. It certainly leads
you to say the right things at the right time
to the right person. Let me put it this way.
Knowing things about people obviously helps you connect with them
and say things to them that are truly relevant and meaningful.
We gather as much important information and insight as possible,
(32:31):
and then we use that in our outreach. I mean
ultimately as a marketer, whether it's a big Super Bowl
spot or it's an email or a text message, anything
that will get you in a more intimate relationship with
your customer is powerful, right, And so you can have
mass intimacy through a big campaign, or you can have
(32:51):
mass intimacy by reaching twenty thirty forty million people through
a really smart targeted, you know, one to one campaign.
And I think that that's how we approach it. And
when it comes to things like AI to me, I mean,
it's a fascinating opportunity right now for all of us
in the marketing industry, Like, how can you use the
most bleeding edge technologies including AI to sort of efficiently
(33:15):
and effectively reach your audiences with the most meaningful message possible.
And that's really what we're doing. I mean, just as
a simple example, simply by understanding what a fans favorite
team is significantly drives their willingness to open and then
act based on the message that you just sent them.
So yes, we continue to get more data, but better data, right,
(33:39):
and more powerful data through understanding our fans and understanding
when and how we can act with them and then
offer some value through that interaction. Of course, the first
thing people think about is how is this going to
replace creativity or how is it going to replace people's
jobs and things like that. I choose to focus on
the things that I know will help me do my
job better, meaning that I can reach more people, more
(34:02):
effectively and efficiently, create more intimacy with those fans, and
ultimately make their experience of taking in my marketing in
a better way. I care about people's time. I care about,
you know, their level of enjoyment when they take in
our message. I mean, for goodness sake, the reason I
got into the out industry in the first place. In
the marketing industry, I thought it was so freaking bad.
(34:25):
I thought it was terrible out there, and I wanted
to improve that experience through advertising and marketing. And ultimately,
how I've really, I think been successful in my career
is that I use high creativity and cutting edge technology
to make that experience of taking my message really truly
fun and expiring, you know, with a level of emotion,
(34:46):
and ultimately, I think that that's helped me move businesses
and move brands.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You just ended on a great note, which was you
talked about art and science without saying the two words.
You talked about creativity and technology coming to together, and
that is the ultimate marriage of art and science. And
you know, Tim, you are such a old face manifestation
of that. I applaud you for that. I get to
(35:12):
now have my most fun, which is the part of
this conversation where I get to just throw some questions
at you that you have no idea about, not part
of our prep in any way, shape or form. It's
my favorite part. It's the lightning round and I just
get to throw some shit your way and see what sticks.
How's that?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Okay, I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Okay, what's one small habit in your daily routine that
brings you unexpected. Joy.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I don't take the same way to the subway every day.
I take different streets and different direction every day just
to experience something different. Takes me ten minutes sometime longer
to get to the subway than the subway takes me
directly to the office. But I take a different street,
different way every time, just to kind of, yeah, shake
it up.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Well. I like that. I like that. If you could
give your younger self one piece of advice, Tim, what
would it be.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
To really believe in your sort of gut instincts that
exploration is key to the happiness of life, you know,
like curiosity and exploration. I think I spent many, many
years exploring, but I was always a little bit sort
of wondering whether I was wasting time, or whether I
was being responsible and so forth. And now I realized
(36:24):
that I would never be where I am today had
I not really listened to that voice in my head
that said keep exploring, keep curious, and keep going.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
I like that. Jim, if you had twenty four hours
with no restrictions, is there an adventure you'd embark on
in that twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
I like to walk and climb. My brother calls me
a billy goat, so like you know what I mean, myself,
I may start to use that. I just like to
get out there and just walk and explore and find
things like me. Whether it be, you know, walking ten
miles through a part of Paris that I haven't seen,
or part of New York, or whether it's climbing a
(37:02):
mountain and seeing things I haven't seen on a foggy day,
or something that to me is just heaven.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
Now I'm coming back to a word we've used quite
a bit on in this conversation. Who was your mentor
early in your career? And is there a particular piece
of advice that one or multiple people gave you, and
is there something you could share with us.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well, I'll give you a simple, practical one, which again
I think gets back to my decision to see the
world and explore. Most people don't know this about me,
but I actually didn't even go to school until I
was in my mid twenties, and that's because I spent
all my early twenties traveling the world. I met a
guy I was living in Paris, and I went to
Israel to work on a kibbutz there because I met
(37:46):
somebody who said, hey, you can go there and they'll
put you on a kibbutz and you can have a
really wonderful adventure. I thought, wow, that sounds cool. So
I just got a one way ticket and I went there,
and I met this guy from New Zealand, and again
I was struggling with I really want to keep going
and travel and see the world, but should I get
back and so forth. And he said, Tim, you're twenty
years old. You spend the next five years of your
(38:07):
life seeing the world and give yourself that sort of break.
Take that off your shoulders of being worried about it,
and just embrace it and see the world. You're still
going to be young men. You're still going to have
time to do anything you want to do in your life.
At the age of twenty five. I thought, Jesus, that's
just so smart, and that's exactly what I want to do.
And so I took that guy's advice and I just
(38:29):
spent those five years. I lived all over the world.
I did all kinds of different jobs, and I had
the most amazing experiences and I learned so much. I
read voraciously and I talked to people and learned shit
that I maybe would have never learned otherwise. And again,
I just think that that advice was the stuff that
propelled me and has made me the person I am today.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
It's one of my pet peeves because in this country
people didn't do what Europeans did, at least back in
the day. The idea of a gap year. Yeah, it
around When someone said, well, Michael, didn't you have a
gap year? I said, well, no, I had a gap minute.
I went from college to law school, to graduate school,
to marry, to kids, to you know, the full So
(39:10):
I had a gap minute. But I think that that's
such a brilliant message to share, whether it's five years
or you know less, the idea of that gap year,
that concept is such an important gift if you can
do it.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah. I think also embrace what you love. Right Like
at that time of my life, I just wanted to
see the world. That's what I really wanted to do.
I had passion around that, so I just decided like,
oh man, I'm going for it. I'm going to do it,
and I did. I mean, my god, during that period,
I think I visited over fifty countries during that period,
but I never done any job that I didn't love
the product or service. Right. I always followed my heart
(39:48):
when it came to things that I cared about. I
love cars, I love video games, and I love football.
And that just so happens that I spent most of
my career doing those three things.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
That's like saying to me, you just nailed it. That's
like sex, drugs, and rock and roll. You got a ball,
You nailed the three things. You know, You're a gear head,
you're a gamer, and you love in the NFL. I mean,
come on, yeah, that's a trifecta.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
But it and those things are all still a part
of my life, you know, And I really believe in that.
I think that you come to work and it's something
that you care about and that you really want to
do your best to drive the company's success. It never
gets old, right, And I think that to me, if
it starts getting old, then you better move on. I
tend to pick the places where I want to go,
and then I really dig in and I do everything
(40:35):
in my power that when I leave, people know that
I left something behind.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Well, Tim, I'm happy to say you didn't leave anything
behind on this conversation. I so appreciate the breath and
depth of this conversation, the candor of it, and I
appreciate you. Tim Ellis. I want to thank you for
joining me today on Good Company and just keep it up, buddy.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Thank you, Michael, and I, by the way, I love
that title good company.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Well you define it.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
I'm Michael Casson, Thanks for listening to Good Company.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Good Company is brought to you by Three C Ventures
and iHeart Podcasts. Special thanks to Alexis Borger Pudeo, our
executive producer and head of Content and Talent, and to
Carl Catle, executive producer at iHeart Podcasts. Episodes are produced
and edited by Mary Doo. Thanks for joining us. We'll
see you next time.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com