November 12, 2025 • 41 mins
Ahead of The Annika – the second-to-last event on the LPGA calendar – Sarah chats with Maya Reddy, a former pro golfer, current sports law and policy consultant, and forever LGBTQ+ activist. They discuss how the LPGA has handled issues of gender, sexuality and identity, what to make of one particular athlete who received an invitation to compete at this week’s event in Florida, and the golf drag brunches you never knew you needed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we've just
learned that November twelfth is American Fancy Rat and Mouse Day,
and that there is such a thing as fancy rats
and mice, and that the American Fancy Rat and Mouse
Association is the American Kettel Club of Domesticated Rodent Organizations,
and that they have a similar annual Best in Show
type competition to promote and encourage the breeding and exhibition
(00:22):
of fancy rats and mice, and that there are extensive
lists of fancy rat and mouse standards and markings, and
that we're much more interested in fancy rats and mice
than we ever could have imagined. It's Wednesday, November twelfth,
American Fancy Rat and Mouse Day, and on today's show
will be skipping the need to know and getting you
straight to my conversation with former pro golfer, current sports
(00:42):
law and policy consultant, and forever LGBTQ plus activists Maya Ready.
I caught up with her ahead of the Onica, the
second to last event on the LPGA calendar, which gets
underway this Thursday at the Pelican Golf Club in Florida.
We discussed how the LPGA has handled issues of gender.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Sexuality, and identity.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
What to make of one particular athlete who received an
invitation to compete at this week's event and the golf
drag brunches you never knew you needed in your life.
That conversation with Maya's coming up right after.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
This joining us now.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
She's a sports law and policy consultant and former professional golfer.
She got her jd at Penn Law and founded the
Sports Project at the Harvard Law School, LGBTQ Plus Advocacy Clinic,
founder of Queer Asian Social Club and Open Fairways Golf.
She's the Queen of Gay Halloween. I'm talking multiple outfit changes.
It's Maya ready, Hi, Maya Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I love the Halloween shadow. I mean multiple outfits.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It was very ignosive and involving your child is always
like really, you know, good bonus points.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I feel like he's going to look back on it
when he's a little bit older and be like, Mom,
why did you dress me and drag every single year?
And I'm like, I'm gay, So this is what you have.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Obviously you also were a fire hydrant and I would
have preferred if the kid was a dog, but you
made him a firefighter.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, I know he was.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
We asked what he wanted to be and he said
firefighter and I was like, okay, I'll be a fire hydrant.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There we go, naturally. Okay, so tell us how you
got into golf originally.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So I started playing golf when I was three, and
it basically was because my parents threw me into every sport.
I always like to brag that Megan Rappino and I
are from the same hometown, and I'm always like we're
best friends. We are absolutely not, but yeah, my parents
were really incredible and just threw me into every sport.
(02:34):
And once I got to high school, it was just
like choose one for college, right, Like in all the applications.
I was really good at swimming and tennis. I went
to Junior Olympics for swimming, but I hated my coaches.
Tennis I had to run a lot. Hated running. So
I was like, Okay, I'm going to play golf, and yeah,
(02:57):
that's how I got into golf. I basically like had
a club in my hand the first time because I
wanted to hit it further than my dad and my uncles.
And yeah, and now I'm here, I'm just like uber competitive,
went to college, played, and then I was like, I
don't want to regret not trying to go pro, so
(03:18):
I'm going to try to go pro. And I clearly
failed at that as.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm not actually pro, no, but my were you were
at one point professional, just not LPGA card holding.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Yeah, I want to ask quickly.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
About your hometown because I wasn't aware of the connection
to Meghan Raupino, and having read her book, she talks
a lot about the difficulty of being a young queer
woman in that city that I shouldn't say city town,
small town. How did you feel growing up about your
identity and how you fit in or didn't fit in?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I mean a lot of similar stuff that Megan
talked about. When I was growing up, my family was
one of a handful of like families of color. I
think we're like one of five South Asian families. And
I had a bowl cut because I'm Asian, So I
(04:13):
had a bowl cut my entire childhood. And when you
look at pictures of me, I very much presented as
like a little boy, which I mean, looking back on it,
I'm like, it's actually kind of cool that my parents
let me like explore that and.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Play with that.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But also because of that, like I'm brown, I'm presenting
like a boy, very obviously queer. It was really hard
reading is very naga. We have an actual cult, which
I always bring up. There's a literal cult in our
home town. But thankfully with Prop fifty passing, we're now blue.
(04:54):
We're in a blue district.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Great, So it'll maybe change things for future Maya's So
twenty sixteen, you're playing golf post college, and obviously the
Trump pre election, the run up to the election, all
of that is sort of changing the tenor of a
lot of spaces, and you felt a shift in what
used to seem like a sort of genderless safe space
(05:16):
of just meritocracy and achievement. Golf was a number at
the end of the day that you could post. But
in that year and during that time, you noticed a
shift and included some comments from your own swing coach,
with whom you'd worked for over a decade and you
were super close with. So can you tell me about
what felt different?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean to put it simply, folks were very emboldened
to say the quiet part out loud, and I think
by virtue of golf being a country club sport and
you know, always being quite conservative. It's a white, wealthy
man sport. I think it was only very recently that
(05:56):
a very famous country club in New Jersey took away
their like men only policy and started allowing women. So
it's like the culture of the sport is there. And
with the first Trump campaign, everybody was saying, you know,
feeling that emboldenness to say the quiet part out loud,
(06:19):
and it was just much easier for folks in golf
to be like, oh, hell yeah, we get you know,
like we don't have to to play nice or you know,
like they're rallying against political correctness, you know, a weird
gross way.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
So yeah, that was like the biggest shift. It's like
I heard a lot of people, you know, being very
Islamophobic and very kind of like racist towards brown people
and also black people. I think the biggest thing for
me at that time, well, two big things. I My
swing coach was saying some very transphobic things about Caitlyn
(07:00):
Jenner because she had just come out and say what
you will about Caitlyn. It's never okay to misgender or
be transphobic against any transperson, and so that was a
big one because I'm like, ugh, like, why am I
having to educate?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Right?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Like, this is a really difficult conversation. I'm twenty two, right, Like,
I'm trying to play golf at a high level. I
can't balance this. And then the second one, which is
a big kind of like the catalyst for why I
stepped away, was a tournament director on one of the
(07:39):
mini tours made racist and homophobic jokes on the first
tee of a tournament, and so it's like, I'm already
so stressed out about like hitting it in the fairway,
and now this person who's running this event, this event
where I'm playing for my livelihood, so to speak, is
(08:02):
creating a hostile environment or at least unwelcoming. And I
was just like, again, I'm twenty two, Like I don't
know how to be an adult, and golf is hell
on Earth, and any sport on an elite level as
hell on Earth. Right, I just couldn't handle it, and
so I got pissed off. I was like, what the
hell can I do with this?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
But before that, to your point, you're twenty two years old,
You've worked your whole life toward this thing, and it's
not about your play. It's about the ways other people
are making it more difficult for you to succeed, and
in ways that are deeply offensive. And so you had
a bit of a mental breakdown, you fell into depression,
and I want to hear about how quickly you realized
(08:46):
that that was because of what was going on in
the disruption to your golf career, or maybe the larger
sentiments that were becoming more out loud in that time.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, I think it took me some time because I
hadn't been in therapy, and I really, looking back on it,
I'm like, wow, I really wish I had a therapist
at that time, because I mean, I could therapy is
the best, and I think that would have helped a
(09:19):
lot in kind of understanding what I'm you know, processing understanding.
I had my first girlfriend, uh was is a therapist,
and so that was really helpful in kind of finding
a therapist to work with. So, yeah, I don't actually
know when I realized. I just knew that I was
(09:41):
really angry, and it was not just for my experience,
but it was also because not many in the LPGA
or like you know, notable women's golfer women golfers were
speaking out about anything. And I might be hyperbolic, but
(10:05):
at that time it felt that way. And I remember
looking at it and I was like, Okay, the least
that we could be doing is talking about pay equity.
That's right. I feel like, you know, the bar is
six feet under, and even if you're trying to do
the it's a country club sport. I'm always like, Okay,
look at tennis, like you know, we have Billy, we
(10:27):
have the William's sisters, we have like Naomi Osaka, like
so many incredible players for decades have been talking about this.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And we've also had golfers on the show that have
sort of informed folks that as much as they look
at the biggest and highest payday, that's not what's trickling
down to the folks trying to get started. And there's
so many fees and costs associated with travel, paying your caddy,
all the other stuff that it's really sort of not
this beautiful, magical, super rich space for most of the
(10:59):
golf it's just the very best ones when they managed
to win a tournament.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So anyway, carry on.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, yeah, So I mean, just on that point for reference,
the twenty twenty five US Women's Open. The Selene Boutier,
who tied for thirty eight, made thirty nine thousand dollars
for the US Men's Open. Philip Barbary Junior, who placed
last one forty one thousand dollars. So, and I know
(11:27):
that you've spoken with Tisha Allen, who I adore. We
played when we were both playing pro. We were together
on the mini tours. But I know that, like folks
point out, as they do in other you know, like
women's leagues, the perse size is not big enough to
have that payout. But I think that's just such a
(11:51):
cop out answer. It's like, Okay, what do we do
to get that per size? If we don't have it,
how do we make it as equitable as possible so
that the folks who are at the bottom of the
money list or tour, you know, don't make the cut whatever,
they're able to sustain their career, right, like they're able
to pay for lodging, travel, their caddies, equipment because many
(12:16):
many players don't have equipment sponsors. All clubs are expensive.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Right and anyone who makes the cut is still the
very best in the world, even if they're not winning tournaments.
But this is something we've talked about with the LPGA
and it feeling like it's different from the rest of
the women's sports space, and how there hasn't been a
lot of speaking out, you know, I wonder if that's
changing at all.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is the face of the sport feels like it's changing.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You talked about how going pro and losing your college
team made you feel like an outsider in a way
that you hadn't before because you couldn't pass as straight, white,
acceptably feminine compared to the you know, ideal look of
the sport. But does it feel like those are the
only acceptable ways to be still, especially with so many
top players from Asia.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I think yes and no. I think that when you
look at the tour now and you consider who the
tour is elevating. This dude, Craig Kessler, he's like an
investment banker who is now the commissioner of the LPGA.
(13:24):
If you look at what he's been doing and the
tour is doing now, it's very centered on the white players,
and you can really see that. I think a really
great example of this is Kessler wants to bring the
LPGA up to the level as the w or NWSL,
(13:46):
and in doing so, they've posted graphics of it of
different athletes. The graphic that they use continually is primarily
white players, and this is like not a drag on
the players from other obviously. Yeah, so Caitlin Clark, Nellie
Korda from the LPGA, and then Alex Morgan and like
(14:08):
obviously all incredible players. I just do think that when
you're presenting those three images as kind of like an ideal,
all three of them are like cis, white femme players
like traditionally attractive and like they're hot, Like come on.
My issue is just with the industry, the institutions themselves
(14:33):
for primarily elevating those stories versus like the Asian players
so big.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, I mean it's hard, I think in America, especially
for non English speaking players to draw the same attention,
and especially this year with the parody going on in
the LPGA, it's very hard to promote when there's a
different winner almost every single tournament. No one can really
attach to a player and their game or get excited
about them, you know, like Nelly Quarter last season, for instance,
who did have such an incredible run of tournament wins
(15:01):
that it created this building story that folks could come
back to and remember and see how she was doing.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The next week. I want to get back to that
parody issue.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
But you know you've mentioned in the past, and we're
talking about other leagues that you've been jealous of players
in other sports because they've been able to compete at
the highest level of their sport knowing that they've been
supported by their governing body, whether that's because of their sexuality,
their race, their background, whatever. What do you make of
in general, the way the LPGA has handled issues of
(15:30):
gender and sexuality and identity over its seventy plus years,
but especially more recently, as the rest of women's sports
has seemed to very actively lean into understanding that that
intersectionality will really serve them and give them more fans.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I'm going to go scorched to her as an LPGA because, Yeah,
they're just doing a terrible job.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Of kind of like inner drama where there is a
certain player who's no longer on tour, like retired, who
a couple of years ago complained about the LPGA tour
posting a Pride flag on their page, and the tour
took down the Pride flag.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Wow. Just that's just that little thing.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, and the tour is incredibly resistant or has in
the past been resistant to being very I don't know,
representative of the queer community. This year, to their credit,
they did do like a Pride series and also me
being like, hey, we can be doing more. It's twenty
(16:35):
twenty five, let's.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Do That's literally the least you can do.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, exactly. It was a lot of like quotes that
were very like acceptable kind of like quotes for queer issues, right,
like love is love all of that stuff. And again,
I just want to make it clear this is not
a knock against any of the players that were featured,
because they're all incredible, and it's no matter what love well,
(17:00):
it's going to be hard to be out and playing
professional sports. I think it's just like what are what
is the tour putting out visibly and like how are
they telling the stories of queer players? And so I
think that's one thing I think it now as we're
(17:20):
looking at this like new gender policy that the LPGA
put into place, something that I think is really important
to recognize with it is that in twenty ten, there
was a lawsuit Lana Lawless versus LPGA believe she was
a trans long drive competitor, and I believe she was
(17:44):
wanting to qualify for the US Open, do one of
the US Open qualifiers or something like that. In response
to that lawsuit, the LPGA changed their gender policy from
one that required a player to be female at birth
and they just remove that category. They put this new
policy to a vote to tour membership. Membership voted yes
(18:08):
on it completely, like you have. I believe Christy Kerr,
who's like a two time major champion. She was quoted
as saying, Lana Lalis can compete if she can qualify,
we certainly do not want to discriminate against anybody. That's
not what the LPGA is about. And if she can qualify,
she'll be able to play. So that policy had been
(18:30):
in place for fourteen years and voted on by the
members exactly, and they changed it this January.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yep. What does the new policy say.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So the new policy puts back the female at birth requirement.
And you can tell that they did this with lawyers
because they try to say that there is a pathway
for trans athletes to play, but they can't. So that
piece that I'm referencing is that The new policy stipulates
(19:04):
that trans girls and women are ineligible to compete in
events on a tour and qualifying events for all tours
unless they haven't experienced any part of male puberty beyond
Tanner stage two or after twelve, so like after twelve, right,
like these are kids like it. It in effect is
(19:24):
preventing trans athletes from playing. And they also have like
a lot of other like specific things. But I don't know,
I feel like the quote unquote biological kind of arguments
are a red herring and ultimately very harmful to all women.
(19:46):
But yeah, like they change this, It's very clear that
it was in response to the political climate a very
much like this is controversial. We don't want to, you know,
like rock the.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Boat, so let's proactively change something that hasn't really been
a problem or an issue. There was a trans player,
Hailey Davidson, that had been playing on the tour but
wasn't winning events, wasn't making the cut for a lot
of events, so it didn't seem like.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
She actually she actually did win on She's a first
out trans woman to win a professional golf event on
the Mini Tour the next tour, which is awesome and
this past year she made it to stage two of
qualifying school. So it was very much like this one
(20:34):
player is playing right, and she's not harming anybody, because
in golf, effectively you're just playing against yourself, right, like
you're trying to best yourself. And so yeah, this one
individual player who you know, like isn't quote unquote dominating anything.
(20:54):
She's just won a few tournaments, which is amazing. That
is what prompted them to change the policy. And something
that also is quite glaring about it is the tour
said that they consulted with different studies and different experts.
They've refused to release who they consulted with. Interesting, So
(21:17):
it's just like, it's so frustrating because I think while
this is very centered on transphobia and trans athletes, I
think it's really important to recognize that by determining who
a woman is, it is going to affect all women
(21:38):
who are playing on the tour because you're creating the
super strict definition, right, and like, women look like so
many different things, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, and we've also happened upon this issue across so
many other sports where if you aren't going to do
the work or show your work in their case about
then what that means for DSD, intersex, all sorts of
other biological variants. Then you're essentially trying to apply a
binary to a space that isn't binary, and doing it
(22:08):
in a.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Really messy way.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Because to your point, if you're not willing to show
the work, which we say it every time, but everybody
should listen to Rose Evelis's podcast tested or read about
the very very very interesting and nuanced and difficult studies
and research that have been attempted that usually don't even
involve elite female athletes and elite trans women athletes. They
(22:30):
try to conflate studies about men and trans women and
all these other things. And so when people ask about
the science, we say it's still evolving, and yet it's
being used for those who decide to use it to
shut down opportunity for various kinds of women. And that's
really frustrating to me that they would say that they
have a bunch of research but not be willing to
(22:51):
point to any of it and be willing to stand
behind it. Ten tos down, We got to take a
quick break more with Maya right after this. It's also
part of what feels like something you mentioned earlier, which
(23:11):
is the LPGA sort of leaning in maybe more confidently
to its conservative roots because of the current administration and
the current climate. So Ki Trump, who is the eighteen
year old granddaughter of President Trump, is going to make
her LPGA tour debut at the upcoming Pelican Golf Club
in Florida as a sponsor invitation.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
In the anica, is that.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
A decision made by the actual sponsor Gainbridge or by
the LPGA. What does a sponsor invitation for someone who
didn't otherwise qualify mean?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
For the most part, it's a publicity stunt. Right, there
are two other sponsor exemptions that are going to be
playing in the game Bridge, So that's anst De Dunan
from Wake Forest and Lauren Yun, a former Northwestern golfer
who's making her pro debut, and Kai Trump. And again
(24:02):
literally none of this is Kai's fault. She is an
eighteen year old and like, go off, You're getting an exemption.
That's you know, like pretty damn cool. And it is
very clearly a publicity stunt, which was clearly made because
the COO of Pelican Golf Club was like, this is
the most women's golf has ever been talked about. So
(24:25):
this is really good for us and for me. The
way I read that is just like, oh, okay, so
you're leaning into a very specific fan base that is
you know, like inherently exclusionary, right, like all of the rhetoric,
you know, the Trump of it, all, the likelyhood that
(24:47):
he is going to attend the event, right Like the
fact that not many if any players have you know,
said anything you know, not necessarily against the President the administration,
but like even just vaguely right like against exclusionary, discriminatory
policies attitudes makes it feel extremely difficult, right, Like you know,
(25:13):
you have Anstir and Lauren, who are athletes that you know,
grinding at their universities, are you know, like really talented,
and they are getting this incredible opportunity. Like I think
that's amazing, and I think that sponsors exemptions should exist
(25:34):
to offer opportunities to up and coming or very talented
golfers who wouldn't otherwise get that opportunity because it's so
hard to get on tour, right, Like, you know, you
have to go through all of these different stages of qualifying,
Like you can be incredibly good at this sport, but
never get attention because perhaps you don't look a certain way,
(25:57):
perhaps you don't speak English right like. And so for Kai,
it's the trump of it all. It's not like the
Kai of it all.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's just it's why she's getting the exemption and also
what it means for everybody else competing there to bring
that into the space. Also, you mentioned the Pelican Club Coo.
I just found his quote. I like don't know anything
about him. I didn't even look up his photo. I
just read this quote and I was kind of laughing
to myself. He said, I would imagine since the Tuesday
announcement that this is one of the most talked about
(26:28):
women's golf tournaments that has probably ever existed. It's on
news channels and sports channels. The numbers of social media
impressions I guess they call it are staggering, love it
or hate it. It's getting people to talk about the event.
Like he might as well have said face place, you know,
like at this point, this guy's like, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
They call them impressions and they're great.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It just speaks to like, again sort of the nature
of the sport very well might be that this guy
doesn't even consider or think about the impact on the
rest of the players if President Trump shows up or
if this becomes a topic for right wing controversy. It's
sort of like when the commission of the WNBA kat
the Engelbert went on the news and said, like, rivalries
are great to a question about how the toxicity about
(27:09):
Angel Rees and Caitlin Clark was causing actual concerns and
safety for players, and she was like, it's always good
to have a rivalry. Like he's like everyone's talking about
it and like, ah, but in a good way, which
kind of like is part of the issue. It's like, again,
you don't blame the eighteen year old who gets the exemption,
but you do blame the systems in place that decide
that this is worth the attention, even at the expense
(27:30):
of what statement it makes about the LPGA, what it
stands for, and what the rest of its members will
have to endure. And then Anika, of course, the event
is named after Anica Sorenstam, and there's this story that's
kind of flown under the radar, which is that she
accepted a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Trump back in
twenty twenty one. This was like right after the rioters
stormed the Capitol, like everyone was still reeling from that,
(27:51):
and she was like, yeah, I'd love to go hang
out with President Trump. And she was asked about it
on the Golf Channel in the couple days after and said, quote,
I don't want to spend energy looking back. I like
to spend energy looking forward, continue to open doors, create
opportunities for the young girls around the world.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And then that was kind of it, like basically everyone
has just let Anika's decision be normalized, and it does
feel like also, I think a lot of us just shrugged, like, oh,
she's probably a trumper. She's in women's golf, and what
do you make of that moment in the sport and
then in golf, like should she have been held more
accountable or do you have to shrug in the sport
of golf and just say, well, probably most of the
(28:26):
people I'm around might just be maga.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
So I think, frankly it's bullshit that no, not many
players are being vocal, and like.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
There's a lot of fear about losing sponsorships, about you know,
different repercussions, Like that's so true and that's so real.
And I do think that there is a responsibility for
especially players who are kind of like at the top
of the money list andarticularly you know, American players obviously
(29:04):
to say something right like that's how change cultural change
in a sport happens. And if you know, Craig Kussler
is adamant about bringing the LPGA up to you know,
like W levels of viewership. You you don't get to
that level of viewership on the W without players being
(29:26):
so open, honest and like fighting for Like the players
association is so strong, and you have so many other
players that are speaking out and also with the NWSL
right most recently the Angel City player, and I don't
want to like give her more attention by naming her
had a terrible op AT and then you had the
(29:49):
two captains have like a really amazing and forthright press
conference where they named that this you know op at
was trafficking in racism and transphobia and how that affects
the team and folks in the locker room and also
like fans and all of that. And so it's hard
(30:12):
for me in twenty twenty five right to give a
lot of grace to the more notable or like the
higher ranking LPGA players for not saying.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And not using their playwer Yeah, I think, listen, there's
smart ways, and I'm even changing my opinion in some
ways of late about the best and smartest way to
speak up Understanding that the current time we'rein is so
unhinged that putting a target on your back when there's
like no regulation of what the highest levels of people
are willing to do to American citizens right now, and
(30:46):
understanding how sponsors are like cow towing to Trump's bullshit
for fear of losing money and that they will not
have your back. I understand being thoughtful about how you speak,
but there are so many ways for the LPGA and
for its athletes to be inspiring and uplifting for women,
to be a part of social change that's occurring because
of women's sports, and to do it in a way
(31:07):
that feels very much like it's about evolving and moving
forward and not about taking shots at people or attacking
an administration.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Like there's ways to do.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
That that are so obvious and have been a part
of women's sports in every other space for decades that
golf is so far behind that you can do that
and still thrive and still make that money and still
show up and play. And so I think that's where
so many of us have been saying. And when Tisha
Allen was on you mentioned her she said, I just
(31:36):
feel sad that we don't get to be a part
of this women's sports revolution, Like we don't really count
because we're not doing any of the stuff that all
the other leagues are doing, and we're not making people
feel about our athletes the way they feel about the
athletes and other sports because we're missing that element. So
what would you like to see the LPGA do in
terms of change? What would you like to see from
them that you think is a realistic step for a
(31:58):
league that seems so far behind.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I mean, I think that's hard because it is so
far behind, so there are so many like steps to take.
But I do think that telling honest stories or allowing
players to be able to talk, and I don't think
that's necessarily like, you know, something that the tour can
(32:21):
really like determine. I think it really is a function
of sponsors, because at the end of the day, we
need money, right, Like you need money to pay these
players to host these events and all of that. I
guess like A really easy example right now is that
they just announced a partnership with Gulf Saudi for a
new event at Shadow Creek in Las Vegas. I saw
(32:44):
this post and I was like, what the like, you
guys are trying to say that you're uplifting women and
women's sports. You want to be like the w you
want to be like NWSL, and yet you are so
you're like prioritizing money in a way that is doing
(33:04):
an incredible disservice to your membership. I mean, like, Saudi
is famously not great for women. The royalty what murdered
a journalist. We had the entire conversation about comedians performing
in Saudi recently that again brought to the surface all
of these human rights violations. And so to see this
(33:26):
announcement after that, right, and you know, just in general,
it's like, oh, okay, so this is making it clear
that the tour is prioritizing money and funding, which again
I understand that is important, but at the cost of, like,
I don't know, any moral stance. They would have to
(33:49):
say that they're growing the game.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Well, and I think we've had the head of the
WTA on and while I'm still very torn about the
arguments about whether you have to be in a space
like that to actually change the space, show them what
they're missing, show them what it looks like to be
an empowered woman so that more people there want to
change it. There's some arguments there from some very smart people,
but in the case of the WTA, there are plenty
of other ways that you are seeing them embrace diversity,
(34:14):
embrace the opportunity to not be seen as quite so
much of a white conservative country club sport if golf
doesn't have any of those other elements, and they are
also leaning into things like having events in Saudi. It's
a lot harder to reconcile or to convince yourself in
any way that they actually care about the atrocities and
the human rights violations, and it's more so.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Just about money.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And until they can open up and show other ways
that they feel like they're counteracting the bad rep they
would get for that, it's just going to be put
on the pile of all the problems. It just feels
like there's so much yet to be done, and having
spoken to some people even at the ORG, there is
so much resistance from within to evolution and embracing a
more modern approach to selling the game, marketing the game,
(34:59):
marketing the players, that there's so much yet to be
done and it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
So I with a few other friends of mine, all
queer and trans golfers who have played professionally or teach,
you know, with PGA certifications, we started Open Fairways and
the idea of it was to create this community organization
that celebrates queer and trans joy in golf and very
(35:26):
much like a by us for us, but obviously like
everybody is welcome, right effort that you know, For us,
it was like, we do not want to slap a
rainbow flag on something and call it good, Like this
has to look good, This has to be something that
like we want to be a part of. And kind
of what and what we've been doing with that is
(35:49):
we've been hosting drag golf brunch events called the Miss
Baltimore Crabs Professional Golf Series. Because I'm an idiot and
I like to do stupid thing, but I feel like
something like that, It's like you don't have to think
that hard to create a space like that, right, Like
it's a drag brunch, right, Like you can just create
(36:11):
these spaces that aren't so I don't I don't want
to say like serious, because these are serious conversations, but
it doesn't have to be so restrictive in that way,
like these spaces can be fun and that LPGi can
do that. Like it's if you're inviting like Caitlin Clark
to a pro am or she's gonna be playing in
(36:32):
the pro am at the Game Bridge, if you're trying
to get Renee Rap to play in a pro am,
which is hilarious because she's famously a lesbian, then like
can't you just like throw a fun like drag golf
brunch of it. I mean, like, don't steal it from me,
and if you do, give me money, but like it's easy. Yeah.
(36:53):
And I also just like quickly want to shout out
the other founders of Open Fairways. They're like incredible athletes.
Irene Crowchild, they're an indigenous golfer up in Canada, first
Indigenous woman to win the Canadian Long Drive two times.
She does so much incredible work with her community. Linley Oy,
(37:16):
who played Do You Want Golf is assistant coaching at
that university and is playing pro now. And then Hal Clark,
who is a non binary professional golf coach out here
in Philly, and they're all like incredible players at every
single level of the sport. And I think that's something
(37:40):
that I would like the LPGA to do, is like
bring in these different voices that are from golf culture
and that aren't solely being elevated because they have a
huge social media following.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Right, find those ways to get people that will draw
new people in instead of just existing popular people.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So open fairways.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You also have Queer Asian Social Club, Like you're doing
the work and trying to figure out how to use
the sport of golf to like grow and bring more
people together and bring more people into the sport.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And we love that.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And you know, we're gonna keep having these conversations until
hopefully golf wants to catch up and wants to figure
out how.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
To be more inclusive. Thanks so much for the time, Maya.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Thanks again to Maya for taking the time and for
hopefully inspiring a whole lot more golf drag brunches. Get
on it, people, we got to take another break. When
we return, strong beats and funky fonts, Welcome back slices.
(38:45):
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, so here's our
good game play of the day.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Follow Maya on social media.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
We'll link to her Instagram in the show notes, and
while you're there for all my maple Bacon slices.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Follow Bertie's Babes golf too.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Courtney Campbell runs amazing golf events out of Vancouver as
one of BC's only female head pros, including Pink Pony Club,
Double Denham and beach.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Themed social tournaments. Will link to her account as well.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Golf is fund slices, Let's storm the courses, kick off
the old traditionalists and make it hours too.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Good game at Wondermedia network dot com or leave us
a voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty
seventy and don't forget to subscribe or rate and review.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Watch the Portland Cherrybombs of the USLW rating one piece
of absolutely fantastic branding review. Regular listeners to the show
will know of my love for the Salmon Bay soccer
team's crest, a dream of a logo that I literally.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Want to live in.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
But they've got some serious competition from new USLW competitor
Portland Cherrybomb FC, brought to you by the folks behind
the Portland Pickles baseballst Google Portland Pickles Tiny Pickle Desk Concert.
By the way, there is a new pre pro women's
soccer team inspired by a nineteen seventies punk rock song,
Cherrybomb by The Runaways, which is a certified banger, and
(40:10):
so is the.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Branding for this team.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
The red and pink cherry logo with a fuse for
a stem looks especially sick on a scarf.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
We'll link to the team's website in the show notes
so you could check it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Out for yourself and go ahead, blast the song in
the car the shower today.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You'll thank us later.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Now it's your turn, y'all rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good game, maya good game, Rats and mice,
both fancy and non you to anyone trying to keep
golf in the past. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
(40:47):
Apple Podcasts, or.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Production by Wonder Media Network.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Our producers are alex.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Azie, Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer.
Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we've just
learned that November twelfth is American Fancy Rat and Mouse Day,
and that there is such a thing as fancy rats
and mice, and that the American Fancy Rat and Mouse
Association is the American Kettel Club of Domesticated Rodent Organizations,
and that they have a similar annual Best in Show
type competition to promote and encourage the breeding and exhibition
(00:22):
of fancy rats and mice, and that there are extensive
lists of fancy rat and mouse standards and markings, and
that we're much more interested in fancy rats and mice
than we ever could have imagined. It's Wednesday, November twelfth,
American Fancy Rat and Mouse Day, and on today's show
will be skipping the need to know and getting you
straight to my conversation with former pro golfer, current sports
(00:42):
law and policy consultant, and forever LGBTQ plus activists Maya Ready.
I caught up with her ahead of the Onica, the
second to last event on the LPGA calendar, which gets
underway this Thursday at the Pelican Golf Club in Florida.
We discussed how the LPGA has handled issues of gender.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Sexuality, and identity.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
What to make of one particular athlete who received an
invitation to compete at this week's event and the golf
drag brunches you never knew you needed in your life.
That conversation with Maya's coming up right after.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
This joining us now.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
She's a sports law and policy consultant and former professional golfer.
She got her jd at Penn Law and founded the
Sports Project at the Harvard Law School, LGBTQ Plus Advocacy Clinic,
founder of Queer Asian Social Club and Open Fairways Golf.
She's the Queen of Gay Halloween. I'm talking multiple outfit changes.
It's Maya ready, Hi, Maya Hi.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I love the Halloween shadow. I mean multiple outfits.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
It was very ignosive and involving your child is always
like really, you know, good bonus points.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I feel like he's going to look back on it
when he's a little bit older and be like, Mom,
why did you dress me and drag every single year?
And I'm like, I'm gay, So this is what you have.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Obviously you also were a fire hydrant and I would
have preferred if the kid was a dog, but you
made him a firefighter.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Oh, I know he was.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
We asked what he wanted to be and he said
firefighter and I was like, okay, I'll be a fire hydrant.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There we go, naturally. Okay, so tell us how you
got into golf originally.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
So I started playing golf when I was three, and
it basically was because my parents threw me into every sport.
I always like to brag that Megan Rappino and I
are from the same hometown, and I'm always like we're
best friends. We are absolutely not, but yeah, my parents
were really incredible and just threw me into every sport.
(02:34):
And once I got to high school, it was just
like choose one for college, right, Like in all the applications.
I was really good at swimming and tennis. I went
to Junior Olympics for swimming, but I hated my coaches.
Tennis I had to run a lot. Hated running. So
I was like, Okay, I'm going to play golf, and yeah,
(02:57):
that's how I got into golf. I basically like had
a club in my hand the first time because I
wanted to hit it further than my dad and my uncles.
And yeah, and now I'm here, I'm just like uber competitive,
went to college, played, and then I was like, I
don't want to regret not trying to go pro, so
(03:18):
I'm going to try to go pro. And I clearly
failed at that as.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm not actually pro, no, but my were you were
at one point professional, just not LPGA card holding.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Yeah, I want to ask quickly.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
About your hometown because I wasn't aware of the connection
to Meghan Raupino, and having read her book, she talks
a lot about the difficulty of being a young queer
woman in that city that I shouldn't say city town,
small town. How did you feel growing up about your
identity and how you fit in or didn't fit in?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, I mean a lot of similar stuff that Megan
talked about. When I was growing up, my family was
one of a handful of like families of color. I
think we're like one of five South Asian families. And
I had a bowl cut because I'm Asian, So I
(04:13):
had a bowl cut my entire childhood. And when you
look at pictures of me, I very much presented as
like a little boy, which I mean, looking back on it,
I'm like, it's actually kind of cool that my parents
let me like explore that and.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Play with that.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But also because of that, like I'm brown, I'm presenting
like a boy, very obviously queer. It was really hard
reading is very naga. We have an actual cult, which
I always bring up. There's a literal cult in our
home town. But thankfully with Prop fifty passing, we're now blue.
(04:54):
We're in a blue district.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Great.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Great, So it'll maybe change things for future Maya's So
twenty sixteen, you're playing golf post college, and obviously the
Trump pre election, the run up to the election, all
of that is sort of changing the tenor of a
lot of spaces, and you felt a shift in what
used to seem like a sort of genderless safe space
(05:16):
of just meritocracy and achievement. Golf was a number at
the end of the day that you could post. But
in that year and during that time, you noticed a
shift and included some comments from your own swing coach,
with whom you'd worked for over a decade and you
were super close with. So can you tell me about
what felt different?
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I mean to put it simply, folks were very emboldened
to say the quiet part out loud, and I think
by virtue of golf being a country club sport and
you know, always being quite conservative. It's a white, wealthy
man sport. I think it was only very recently that
(05:56):
a very famous country club in New Jersey took away
their like men only policy and started allowing women. So
it's like the culture of the sport is there. And
with the first Trump campaign, everybody was saying, you know,
feeling that emboldenness to say the quiet part out loud,
(06:19):
and it was just much easier for folks in golf
to be like, oh, hell yeah, we get you know,
like we don't have to to play nice or you know,
like they're rallying against political correctness, you know, a weird
gross way.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
So yeah, that was like the biggest shift. It's like
I heard a lot of people, you know, being very
Islamophobic and very kind of like racist towards brown people
and also black people. I think the biggest thing for
me at that time, well, two big things. I My
swing coach was saying some very transphobic things about Caitlyn
(07:00):
Jenner because she had just come out and say what
you will about Caitlyn. It's never okay to misgender or
be transphobic against any transperson, and so that was a
big one because I'm like, ugh, like, why am I
having to educate?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Right?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Like, this is a really difficult conversation. I'm twenty two, right, Like,
I'm trying to play golf at a high level. I
can't balance this. And then the second one, which is
a big kind of like the catalyst for why I
stepped away, was a tournament director on one of the
(07:39):
mini tours made racist and homophobic jokes on the first
tee of a tournament, and so it's like, I'm already
so stressed out about like hitting it in the fairway,
and now this person who's running this event, this event
where I'm playing for my livelihood, so to speak, is
(08:02):
creating a hostile environment or at least unwelcoming. And I
was just like, again, I'm twenty two, Like I don't
know how to be an adult, and golf is hell
on Earth, and any sport on an elite level as
hell on Earth. Right, I just couldn't handle it, and
so I got pissed off. I was like, what the
hell can I do with this?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
But before that, to your point, you're twenty two years old,
You've worked your whole life toward this thing, and it's
not about your play. It's about the ways other people
are making it more difficult for you to succeed, and
in ways that are deeply offensive. And so you had
a bit of a mental breakdown, you fell into depression,
and I want to hear about how quickly you realized
(08:46):
that that was because of what was going on in
the disruption to your golf career, or maybe the larger
sentiments that were becoming more out loud in that time.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, I think it took me some time because I
hadn't been in therapy, and I really, looking back on it,
I'm like, wow, I really wish I had a therapist
at that time, because I mean, I could therapy is
the best, and I think that would have helped a
(09:19):
lot in kind of understanding what I'm you know, processing understanding.
I had my first girlfriend, uh was is a therapist,
and so that was really helpful in kind of finding
a therapist to work with. So, yeah, I don't actually
know when I realized. I just knew that I was
(09:41):
really angry, and it was not just for my experience,
but it was also because not many in the LPGA
or like you know, notable women's golfer women golfers were
speaking out about anything. And I might be hyperbolic, but
(10:05):
at that time it felt that way. And I remember
looking at it and I was like, Okay, the least
that we could be doing is talking about pay equity.
That's right. I feel like, you know, the bar is
six feet under, and even if you're trying to do
the it's a country club sport. I'm always like, Okay,
look at tennis, like you know, we have Billy, we
(10:27):
have the William's sisters, we have like Naomi Osaka, like
so many incredible players for decades have been talking about this.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And we've also had golfers on the show that have
sort of informed folks that as much as they look
at the biggest and highest payday, that's not what's trickling
down to the folks trying to get started. And there's
so many fees and costs associated with travel, paying your caddy,
all the other stuff that it's really sort of not
this beautiful, magical, super rich space for most of the
(10:59):
golf it's just the very best ones when they managed
to win a tournament.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So anyway, carry on.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Yeah, yeah, So I mean, just on that point for reference,
the twenty twenty five US Women's Open. The Selene Boutier,
who tied for thirty eight, made thirty nine thousand dollars
for the US Men's Open. Philip Barbary Junior, who placed
last one forty one thousand dollars. So, and I know
(11:27):
that you've spoken with Tisha Allen, who I adore. We
played when we were both playing pro. We were together
on the mini tours. But I know that, like folks
point out, as they do in other you know, like
women's leagues, the perse size is not big enough to
have that payout. But I think that's just such a
(11:51):
cop out answer. It's like, Okay, what do we do
to get that per size? If we don't have it,
how do we make it as equitable as possible so
that the folks who are at the bottom of the
money list or tour, you know, don't make the cut whatever,
they're able to sustain their career, right, like they're able
to pay for lodging, travel, their caddies, equipment because many
(12:16):
many players don't have equipment sponsors. All clubs are expensive.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Right and anyone who makes the cut is still the
very best in the world, even if they're not winning tournaments.
But this is something we've talked about with the LPGA
and it feeling like it's different from the rest of
the women's sports space, and how there hasn't been a
lot of speaking out, you know, I wonder if that's
changing at all.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is the face of the sport feels like it's changing.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
You talked about how going pro and losing your college
team made you feel like an outsider in a way
that you hadn't before because you couldn't pass as straight, white,
acceptably feminine compared to the you know, ideal look of
the sport. But does it feel like those are the
only acceptable ways to be still, especially with so many
top players from Asia.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
I think yes and no. I think that when you
look at the tour now and you consider who the
tour is elevating. This dude, Craig Kessler, he's like an
investment banker who is now the commissioner of the LPGA.
(13:24):
If you look at what he's been doing and the
tour is doing now, it's very centered on the white players,
and you can really see that. I think a really
great example of this is Kessler wants to bring the
LPGA up to the level as the w or NWSL,
(13:46):
and in doing so, they've posted graphics of it of
different athletes. The graphic that they use continually is primarily
white players, and this is like not a drag on
the players from other obviously. Yeah, so Caitlin Clark, Nellie
Korda from the LPGA, and then Alex Morgan and like
(14:08):
obviously all incredible players. I just do think that when
you're presenting those three images as kind of like an ideal,
all three of them are like cis, white femme players
like traditionally attractive and like they're hot, Like come on.
My issue is just with the industry, the institutions themselves
(14:33):
for primarily elevating those stories versus like the Asian players
so big.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, I mean it's hard, I think in America, especially
for non English speaking players to draw the same attention,
and especially this year with the parody going on in
the LPGA, it's very hard to promote when there's a
different winner almost every single tournament. No one can really
attach to a player and their game or get excited
about them, you know, like Nelly Quarter last season, for instance,
who did have such an incredible run of tournament wins
(15:01):
that it created this building story that folks could come
back to and remember and see how she was doing.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The next week. I want to get back to that
parody issue.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
But you know you've mentioned in the past, and we're
talking about other leagues that you've been jealous of players
in other sports because they've been able to compete at
the highest level of their sport knowing that they've been
supported by their governing body, whether that's because of their sexuality,
their race, their background, whatever. What do you make of
in general, the way the LPGA has handled issues of
(15:30):
gender and sexuality and identity over its seventy plus years,
but especially more recently, as the rest of women's sports
has seemed to very actively lean into understanding that that
intersectionality will really serve them and give them more fans.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I'm going to go scorched to her as an LPGA because, Yeah,
they're just doing a terrible job.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
There's a lot.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Of kind of like inner drama where there is a
certain player who's no longer on tour, like retired, who
a couple of years ago complained about the LPGA tour
posting a Pride flag on their page, and the tour
took down the Pride flag.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Wow. Just that's just that little thing.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, and the tour is incredibly resistant or has in
the past been resistant to being very I don't know,
representative of the queer community. This year, to their credit,
they did do like a Pride series and also me
being like, hey, we can be doing more. It's twenty
(16:35):
twenty five, let's.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Do That's literally the least you can do.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, exactly. It was a lot of like quotes that
were very like acceptable kind of like quotes for queer issues, right,
like love is love all of that stuff. And again,
I just want to make it clear this is not
a knock against any of the players that were featured,
because they're all incredible, and it's no matter what love well,
(17:00):
it's going to be hard to be out and playing
professional sports. I think it's just like what are what
is the tour putting out visibly and like how are
they telling the stories of queer players? And so I
think that's one thing I think it now as we're
(17:20):
looking at this like new gender policy that the LPGA
put into place, something that I think is really important
to recognize with it is that in twenty ten, there
was a lawsuit Lana Lawless versus LPGA believe she was
a trans long drive competitor, and I believe she was
(17:44):
wanting to qualify for the US Open, do one of
the US Open qualifiers or something like that. In response
to that lawsuit, the LPGA changed their gender policy from
one that required a player to be female at birth
and they just remove that category. They put this new
policy to a vote to tour membership. Membership voted yes
(18:08):
on it completely, like you have. I believe Christy Kerr,
who's like a two time major champion. She was quoted
as saying, Lana Lalis can compete if she can qualify,
we certainly do not want to discriminate against anybody. That's
not what the LPGA is about. And if she can qualify,
she'll be able to play. So that policy had been
(18:30):
in place for fourteen years and voted on by the
members exactly, and they changed it this January.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yep. What does the new policy say.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
So the new policy puts back the female at birth requirement.
And you can tell that they did this with lawyers
because they try to say that there is a pathway
for trans athletes to play, but they can't. So that
piece that I'm referencing is that The new policy stipulates
(19:04):
that trans girls and women are ineligible to compete in
events on a tour and qualifying events for all tours
unless they haven't experienced any part of male puberty beyond
Tanner stage two or after twelve, so like after twelve, right,
like these are kids like it. It in effect is
(19:24):
preventing trans athletes from playing. And they also have like
a lot of other like specific things. But I don't know,
I feel like the quote unquote biological kind of arguments
are a red herring and ultimately very harmful to all women.
(19:46):
But yeah, like they change this, It's very clear that
it was in response to the political climate a very
much like this is controversial. We don't want to, you know,
like rock the.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Boat, so let's proactively change something that hasn't really been
a problem or an issue. There was a trans player,
Hailey Davidson, that had been playing on the tour but
wasn't winning events, wasn't making the cut for a lot
of events, so it didn't seem like.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
She actually she actually did win on She's a first
out trans woman to win a professional golf event on
the Mini Tour the next tour, which is awesome and
this past year she made it to stage two of
qualifying school. So it was very much like this one
(20:34):
player is playing right, and she's not harming anybody, because
in golf, effectively you're just playing against yourself, right, like
you're trying to best yourself. And so yeah, this one
individual player who you know, like isn't quote unquote dominating anything.
(20:54):
She's just won a few tournaments, which is amazing. That
is what prompted them to change the policy. And something
that also is quite glaring about it is the tour
said that they consulted with different studies and different experts.
They've refused to release who they consulted with. Interesting, So
(21:17):
it's just like, it's so frustrating because I think while
this is very centered on transphobia and trans athletes, I
think it's really important to recognize that by determining who
a woman is, it is going to affect all women
(21:38):
who are playing on the tour because you're creating the
super strict definition, right, and like, women look like so
many different things, which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, and we've also happened upon this issue across so
many other sports where if you aren't going to do
the work or show your work in their case about
then what that means for DSD, intersex, all sorts of
other biological variants. Then you're essentially trying to apply a
binary to a space that isn't binary, and doing it
(22:08):
in a.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Really messy way.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Because to your point, if you're not willing to show
the work, which we say it every time, but everybody
should listen to Rose Evelis's podcast tested or read about
the very very very interesting and nuanced and difficult studies
and research that have been attempted that usually don't even
involve elite female athletes and elite trans women athletes. They
(22:30):
try to conflate studies about men and trans women and
all these other things. And so when people ask about
the science, we say it's still evolving, and yet it's
being used for those who decide to use it to
shut down opportunity for various kinds of women. And that's
really frustrating to me that they would say that they
have a bunch of research but not be willing to
(22:51):
point to any of it and be willing to stand
behind it. Ten tos down, We got to take a
quick break more with Maya right after this. It's also
part of what feels like something you mentioned earlier, which
(23:11):
is the LPGA sort of leaning in maybe more confidently
to its conservative roots because of the current administration and
the current climate. So Ki Trump, who is the eighteen
year old granddaughter of President Trump, is going to make
her LPGA tour debut at the upcoming Pelican Golf Club
in Florida as a sponsor invitation.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
In the anica, is that.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
A decision made by the actual sponsor Gainbridge or by
the LPGA. What does a sponsor invitation for someone who
didn't otherwise qualify mean?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
For the most part, it's a publicity stunt. Right, there
are two other sponsor exemptions that are going to be
playing in the game Bridge, So that's anst De Dunan
from Wake Forest and Lauren Yun, a former Northwestern golfer
who's making her pro debut, and Kai Trump. And again
(24:02):
literally none of this is Kai's fault. She is an
eighteen year old and like, go off, You're getting an exemption.
That's you know, like pretty damn cool. And it is
very clearly a publicity stunt, which was clearly made because
the COO of Pelican Golf Club was like, this is
the most women's golf has ever been talked about. So
(24:25):
this is really good for us and for me. The
way I read that is just like, oh, okay, so
you're leaning into a very specific fan base that is
you know, like inherently exclusionary, right, like all of the rhetoric,
you know, the Trump of it, all, the likelyhood that
(24:47):
he is going to attend the event, right Like the
fact that not many if any players have you know,
said anything you know, not necessarily against the President the administration,
but like even just vaguely right like against exclusionary, discriminatory
policies attitudes makes it feel extremely difficult, right, Like you know,
(25:13):
you have Anstir and Lauren, who are athletes that you know,
grinding at their universities, are you know, like really talented,
and they are getting this incredible opportunity. Like I think
that's amazing, and I think that sponsors exemptions should exist
(25:34):
to offer opportunities to up and coming or very talented
golfers who wouldn't otherwise get that opportunity because it's so
hard to get on tour, right, Like, you know, you
have to go through all of these different stages of qualifying,
Like you can be incredibly good at this sport, but
never get attention because perhaps you don't look a certain way,
(25:57):
perhaps you don't speak English right like. And so for Kai,
it's the trump of it all. It's not like the
Kai of it all.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's just it's why she's getting the exemption and also
what it means for everybody else competing there to bring
that into the space. Also, you mentioned the Pelican Club Coo.
I just found his quote. I like don't know anything
about him. I didn't even look up his photo. I
just read this quote and I was kind of laughing
to myself. He said, I would imagine since the Tuesday
announcement that this is one of the most talked about
(26:28):
women's golf tournaments that has probably ever existed. It's on
news channels and sports channels. The numbers of social media
impressions I guess they call it are staggering, love it
or hate it. It's getting people to talk about the event.
Like he might as well have said face place, you know,
like at this point, this guy's like, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
They call them impressions and they're great.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It just speaks to like, again sort of the nature
of the sport very well might be that this guy
doesn't even consider or think about the impact on the
rest of the players if President Trump shows up or
if this becomes a topic for right wing controversy. It's
sort of like when the commission of the WNBA kat
the Engelbert went on the news and said, like, rivalries
are great to a question about how the toxicity about
(27:09):
Angel Rees and Caitlin Clark was causing actual concerns and
safety for players, and she was like, it's always good
to have a rivalry. Like he's like everyone's talking about
it and like, ah, but in a good way, which
kind of like is part of the issue. It's like, again,
you don't blame the eighteen year old who gets the exemption,
but you do blame the systems in place that decide
that this is worth the attention, even at the expense
(27:30):
of what statement it makes about the LPGA, what it
stands for, and what the rest of its members will
have to endure. And then Anika, of course, the event
is named after Anica Sorenstam, and there's this story that's
kind of flown under the radar, which is that she
accepted a Presidential Medal of Freedom from Trump back in
twenty twenty one. This was like right after the rioters
stormed the Capitol, like everyone was still reeling from that,
(27:51):
and she was like, yeah, I'd love to go hang
out with President Trump. And she was asked about it
on the Golf Channel in the couple days after and said, quote,
I don't want to spend energy looking back. I like
to spend energy looking forward, continue to open doors, create
opportunities for the young girls around the world.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
End quote.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
And then that was kind of it, like basically everyone
has just let Anika's decision be normalized, and it does
feel like also, I think a lot of us just shrugged, like, oh,
she's probably a trumper. She's in women's golf, and what
do you make of that moment in the sport and
then in golf, like should she have been held more
accountable or do you have to shrug in the sport
of golf and just say, well, probably most of the
(28:26):
people I'm around might just be maga.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
So I think, frankly it's bullshit that no, not many
players are being vocal, and like.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
There's a lot of fear about losing sponsorships, about you know,
different repercussions, Like that's so true and that's so real.
And I do think that there is a responsibility for
especially players who are kind of like at the top
of the money list andarticularly you know, American players obviously
(29:04):
to say something right like that's how change cultural change
in a sport happens. And if you know, Craig Kussler
is adamant about bringing the LPGA up to you know,
like W levels of viewership. You you don't get to
that level of viewership on the W without players being
(29:26):
so open, honest and like fighting for Like the players
association is so strong, and you have so many other
players that are speaking out and also with the NWSL
right most recently the Angel City player, and I don't
want to like give her more attention by naming her
had a terrible op AT and then you had the
(29:49):
two captains have like a really amazing and forthright press
conference where they named that this you know op at
was trafficking in racism and transphobia and how that affects
the team and folks in the locker room and also
like fans and all of that. And so it's hard
(30:12):
for me in twenty twenty five right to give a
lot of grace to the more notable or like the
higher ranking LPGA players for not saying.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And not using their playwer Yeah, I think, listen, there's
smart ways, and I'm even changing my opinion in some
ways of late about the best and smartest way to
speak up Understanding that the current time we'rein is so
unhinged that putting a target on your back when there's
like no regulation of what the highest levels of people
are willing to do to American citizens right now, and
(30:46):
understanding how sponsors are like cow towing to Trump's bullshit
for fear of losing money and that they will not
have your back. I understand being thoughtful about how you speak,
but there are so many ways for the LPGA and
for its athletes to be inspiring and uplifting for women,
to be a part of social change that's occurring because
of women's sports, and to do it in a way
(31:07):
that feels very much like it's about evolving and moving
forward and not about taking shots at people or attacking
an administration.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Like there's ways to do.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
That that are so obvious and have been a part
of women's sports in every other space for decades that
golf is so far behind that you can do that
and still thrive and still make that money and still
show up and play. And so I think that's where
so many of us have been saying. And when Tisha
Allen was on you mentioned her she said, I just
(31:36):
feel sad that we don't get to be a part
of this women's sports revolution, Like we don't really count
because we're not doing any of the stuff that all
the other leagues are doing, and we're not making people
feel about our athletes the way they feel about the
athletes and other sports because we're missing that element. So
what would you like to see the LPGA do in
terms of change? What would you like to see from
them that you think is a realistic step for a
(31:58):
league that seems so far behind.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I mean, I think that's hard because it is so
far behind, so there are so many like steps to take.
But I do think that telling honest stories or allowing
players to be able to talk, and I don't think
that's necessarily like, you know, something that the tour can
(32:21):
really like determine. I think it really is a function
of sponsors, because at the end of the day, we
need money, right, Like you need money to pay these
players to host these events and all of that. I
guess like A really easy example right now is that
they just announced a partnership with Gulf Saudi for a
new event at Shadow Creek in Las Vegas. I saw
(32:44):
this post and I was like, what the like, you
guys are trying to say that you're uplifting women and
women's sports. You want to be like the w you
want to be like NWSL, and yet you are so
you're like prioritizing money in a way that is doing
(33:04):
an incredible disservice to your membership. I mean, like, Saudi
is famously not great for women. The royalty what murdered
a journalist. We had the entire conversation about comedians performing
in Saudi recently that again brought to the surface all
of these human rights violations. And so to see this
(33:26):
announcement after that, right, and you know, just in general,
it's like, oh, okay, so this is making it clear
that the tour is prioritizing money and funding, which again
I understand that is important, but at the cost of, like,
I don't know, any moral stance. They would have to
(33:49):
say that they're growing the game.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Well, and I think we've had the head of the
WTA on and while I'm still very torn about the
arguments about whether you have to be in a space
like that to actually change the space, show them what
they're missing, show them what it looks like to be
an empowered woman so that more people there want to
change it. There's some arguments there from some very smart people,
but in the case of the WTA, there are plenty
of other ways that you are seeing them embrace diversity,
(34:14):
embrace the opportunity to not be seen as quite so
much of a white conservative country club sport if golf
doesn't have any of those other elements, and they are
also leaning into things like having events in Saudi. It's
a lot harder to reconcile or to convince yourself in
any way that they actually care about the atrocities and
the human rights violations, and it's more so.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Just about money.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And until they can open up and show other ways
that they feel like they're counteracting the bad rep they
would get for that, it's just going to be put
on the pile of all the problems. It just feels
like there's so much yet to be done, and having
spoken to some people even at the ORG, there is
so much resistance from within to evolution and embracing a
more modern approach to selling the game, marketing the game,
(34:59):
marketing the players, that there's so much yet to be
done and it's so easy.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
So I with a few other friends of mine, all
queer and trans golfers who have played professionally or teach,
you know, with PGA certifications, we started Open Fairways and
the idea of it was to create this community organization
that celebrates queer and trans joy in golf and very
(35:26):
much like a by us for us, but obviously like
everybody is welcome, right effort that you know, For us,
it was like, we do not want to slap a
rainbow flag on something and call it good, Like this
has to look good, This has to be something that
like we want to be a part of. And kind
of what and what we've been doing with that is
(35:49):
we've been hosting drag golf brunch events called the Miss
Baltimore Crabs Professional Golf Series. Because I'm an idiot and
I like to do stupid thing, but I feel like
something like that, It's like you don't have to think
that hard to create a space like that, right, Like
it's a drag brunch, right, Like you can just create
(36:11):
these spaces that aren't so I don't I don't want
to say like serious, because these are serious conversations, but
it doesn't have to be so restrictive in that way,
like these spaces can be fun and that LPGi can
do that. Like it's if you're inviting like Caitlin Clark
to a pro am or she's gonna be playing in
(36:32):
the pro am at the Game Bridge, if you're trying
to get Renee Rap to play in a pro am,
which is hilarious because she's famously a lesbian, then like
can't you just like throw a fun like drag golf
brunch of it. I mean, like, don't steal it from me,
and if you do, give me money, but like it's easy. Yeah.
(36:53):
And I also just like quickly want to shout out
the other founders of Open Fairways. They're like incredible athletes.
Irene Crowchild, they're an indigenous golfer up in Canada, first
Indigenous woman to win the Canadian Long Drive two times.
She does so much incredible work with her community. Linley Oy,
(37:16):
who played Do You Want Golf is assistant coaching at
that university and is playing pro now. And then Hal Clark,
who is a non binary professional golf coach out here
in Philly, and they're all like incredible players at every
single level of the sport. And I think that's something
(37:40):
that I would like the LPGA to do, is like
bring in these different voices that are from golf culture
and that aren't solely being elevated because they have a
huge social media following.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Right, find those ways to get people that will draw
new people in instead of just existing popular people.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So open fairways.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
You also have Queer Asian Social Club, Like you're doing
the work and trying to figure out how to use
the sport of golf to like grow and bring more
people together and bring more people into the sport.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
And we love that.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
And you know, we're gonna keep having these conversations until
hopefully golf wants to catch up and wants to figure
out how.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
To be more inclusive. Thanks so much for the time, Maya.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Thanks again to Maya for taking the time and for
hopefully inspiring a whole lot more golf drag brunches. Get
on it, people, we got to take another break. When
we return, strong beats and funky fonts, Welcome back slices.
(38:45):
We love that you're listening, but we want you to
get in the game every day too, so here's our
good game play of the day.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Follow Maya on social media.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
We'll link to her Instagram in the show notes, and
while you're there for all my maple Bacon slices.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Follow Bertie's Babes golf too.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Courtney Campbell runs amazing golf events out of Vancouver as
one of BC's only female head pros, including Pink Pony Club,
Double Denham and beach.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Themed social tournaments. Will link to her account as well.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Golf is fund slices, Let's storm the courses, kick off
the old traditionalists and make it hours too.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
We always love to hear from you, so hit us
up on email.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Good game at Wondermedia network dot com or leave us
a voicemail at eight seven two two o four fifty
seventy and don't forget to subscribe or rate and review.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Watch the Portland Cherrybombs of the USLW rating one piece
of absolutely fantastic branding review. Regular listeners to the show
will know of my love for the Salmon Bay soccer
team's crest, a dream of a logo that I literally.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Want to live in.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
But they've got some serious competition from new USLW competitor
Portland Cherrybomb FC, brought to you by the folks behind
the Portland Pickles baseballst Google Portland Pickles Tiny Pickle Desk Concert.
By the way, there is a new pre pro women's
soccer team inspired by a nineteen seventies punk rock song,
Cherrybomb by The Runaways, which is a certified banger, and
(40:10):
so is the.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Branding for this team.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
The red and pink cherry logo with a fuse for
a stem looks especially sick on a scarf.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
We'll link to the team's website in the show notes
so you could check it.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Out for yourself and go ahead, blast the song in
the car the shower today.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You'll thank us later.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Now it's your turn, y'all rate and review, Thanks for listening,
See you tomorrow. Good game, maya good game, Rats and mice,
both fancy and non you to anyone trying to keep
golf in the past. Good Game with Sarah Spain is
an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
(40:47):
Apple Podcasts, or.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Production by Wonder Media Network.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Our producers are alex.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Azie, Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and Lucy Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.
Our editors are Emily Rutter, Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer.
Production assistants from Avery Loftus and I'm Your Host Sarah
Spain
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