Keep Your Eyes On This Site with Lindsay Gibbs

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where the Sunday
Scaries we're more like terrors this weekend. After the Cheetoh
in Chief took getting bombed on a Saturday night to
a whole new level, We're going to need to bury
ourselves in some sports nonsense for a little bit, how
about you. It's Monday, June twenty third, and on today's show,
we'll be talking with Lindsay Gibbs, creator of the women's
sports newsletter Powerplays, about her process in choosing, researching and

(00:23):
writing about topics, the challenges of being your own boss,
and why knowing history and context in women's sports is
more important than ever. Plus a Hoops and gayshit Soft
Tarred launch WNBA Portland Tees is an announcement the Sad
Facks about Title nine at fifty three, and a friend
of the show bids farewell to the beautiful game. It's
all coming up right after this welcome back slices. Here's

(00:57):
what you need to know today in Hoops's Pride Month
rolls on. We got to start the week off strong
with some hoops and gay shit. Many have speculated about
the nature of the quote unquote friendship between Dallas Wing's
rookie Page Beckers and her former Yukon teammate Azy Fudd.
While on Saturday, Fud gave the world a definitive answer,

(01:18):
the Yukon super senior took to Instagram to post a
mirror selfie in a salon chair while she was getting
her hair done and on her phone case backwards because
of the mirror were the words Page Becker's girlfriend in
pink letters. Doesn't get much clearer than that. We'll link
to a friend of the show coach Jackie Jay's video
about the photo and our show notes so you could

(01:38):
see it for yourself. Now, let me assure you there
are basketball gays across the world absolutely losing it right
now because this is a friends to lover her story
for the Ages. Fud and Beckers have been friends for
a long ass time. For a story by USA Today's
Sidney Henderson. The two first met in twenty seventeen while
they were trying out for the USA Basketball women's U

(01:59):
sixteen national team. They've seen each other through a ton,
including an unfortunate number of knee injuries, and they were
teammates at Yukon from twenty twenty one through this past
college season, when they led the Huskies to the program's
twelfth NCAA championship together. Now, I'm categorizing this as a
hard soft launch because Beckers isn't in the picture, and
I think you got to be together in the photos

(02:19):
for a true hard launch. But it is the second
hard soft launch from this pair because they did a
cute little take on those recent trending videos about restaurant bills.
I don't know if you've seen this, but we'll link
to it in the show notes if you didn't. In
the video, Fud asks Beckers how much the meal costs.
Becker's replies two hundred dollars, and Fud replies, Oh, that's

(02:40):
not that bad. Cut back to an exasperated Beckers with
the bill, and Fud captioned it princess treatment every time
I'm with her. That's a soft launch, y'all, and it
definitely had people talking. But the phone case, now we're
really cooking with gas. It is officially official, and I
love this couple. So I am so happy for these

(03:01):
young ladies, but I do want to remind people that
they are just that young ladies. They were both born
after the year two thousand, so when we're talking about them,
and when we're talking about the relationship that Fud seems
to have revealed to us, let's be mindful of their age,
and let's try to be kind and offer grace to
not just them, but all the spoonworthy relationships that we

(03:24):
like to stand. But in the meantime, we do have
to figure out their couple name. Is it Bud, is
it Paisy? Is it age? Or, like friend of the
show er fight Masters said on their hilarious podcast Jocular First, Yeah,
I think we're going to need to work on it.
Send us some suggestions if you've got them so far.

(03:46):
I'm into Paisy more hoops. Remember last week when we
told you about Chicago skystar Angel Reese trying to turn
her trolls into some merch. Well she's done it. She's
officially made merch with the word me bounds case you're
wondering where the word comes from. Some trolls started to
use mee bounds to describe Reese's boards because her critics
like to claim that her rebounding stats are only impressive

(04:07):
because she grabs her own misses, a theory that's been
proven wrong. By the way, Yes, she does miss a
few layups, and yes she does benefit from those, but
she does plenty of work on the defensive boards too,
And on Thursday, she officially released a new batch of
merch on her website using the term me Bounds. The
new line includes sweatshirts, t shirts, and hats with the

(04:28):
Meebound slogan, and multiple pieces also include the line anything
that comes off that board, It's mine the cherry. On
top of all of this is that re shared that
part of the proceeds from the merch sales will go
to the Angel ce Reese Foundation to help fight cyberbowling.
Talk about turning lemons into lemonade. Salute Angel. More w News.
New York Liberty star John Qwell Jones is out for

(04:50):
four to six weeks. She re entered a right ankle
sprain in a contest against the Phoenix Mercurant Thursday, and
the team confirmed that after evaluation, she'll have to sit
out at least the next nine games, and that means
she's likely missing the WNBA All Star Game in mid July.
The Liberty are currently hold and strong at second in
the league standings, and Jones is the team's top rebounder
and third leading scorer. She had already missed two games

(05:12):
previously due to an injury to the same ankle, so
never great to have a key piece on the sideline,
but it does feel smart to make sure she has
time to fully recover before the playoff push begins in
the second half of the season. Speaking of the All
Star Game in the second half, first returns are in
on the fan All Star voting and per league announcement.
Indiana feverstar Caitlin Clark leads all players with almost five

(05:33):
hundred and sixteen thousand votes, no surprise. There also no surprise,
the Minnesota Lynx's Novisa Collier is right behind her with
almost four hundred eighty five thousand. The Fevers Aliah Boston,
Las Vegas Aces Asia Wilson and New York Liberties Brianna
Stewart round out the top five, and Dallas Wings rookie
Page Beckers is in sixth. Indiana's Gamebridge Fieldhouse is going
to play host to the festivities July eighteenth to nineteenth,

(05:56):
and with four Fever players in the top ten of
voting right now and eight Fever players in the top forty,
the home squad is looking to be very well represented
and can you believe it even more. WNBA News the
league filed trademarks last week for the Portland Fire name
and one for a p logo, hinting that the league's
next expansion franchise will revive the Fire name from the

(06:18):
franchise that played back in two thousand to two thousand
and two. Additionally, the official WNBA Portland Twitter slash x
account released a post on Friday with the graphic that
read quote July fifteenth, the countdown is on end quote.
So putting two and two together looks like we'll be
getting a name and a logo drop for the WNBA's
fifteenth franchise in the coming weeks. WNBA Portland will start

(06:41):
playing twenty twenty six, along with fellow expansion team, the
Toronto Tempo. To the NWSL friend of the show, Megan
Klingenberg finally did it. She officially retired from professional soccer
last week via a post on Instagram. The caption red
quote now available for charity matches, Sunday brunches, and pool parties,
preferably all on the same day end quote. The post

(07:01):
slides include a heartfelt goodbye letter which reads, in part quote,
this isn't a surprise, but it still feels big to
say it's time I'm retiring from football. It's taken me
a lot of time and reflection to arrive at this place,
but I've come to realize something important. For so long,
I thought that soccer gave me purpose, joy and light.
But it was never soccer. It comes from within because joy,

(07:22):
purpose and fulfillment aren't found in what you do. They're
rooted in who you are. Soccer simply gave me the
space to live it. End quote. Kling's letter continues later quote,
I've played with fire, with grit, and most of all,
with joy, and through it all, I've grown into a
person I'm proud to be Now. I feel full, grateful,
at peace. It's time for something new to excite me

(07:44):
the way soccer always has, because the purpose hasn't changed,
just the stage. End quote. Klingenberg had quite the career
on the domestic and international level. She amassed seventy five
caps with the US women's national team, played every minute
in the squad's quest to win the twenty fifteen World Cup.
Is a two time NWSL Shield winner and won the
NWSL Championship with the Portland Thorns twice. Twenty seventeen and

(08:07):
twenty twenty two. She is sticking around the game, though.
She was named one of the hosts of the US
Soccer podcast earlier this month. We'll link to where you
can listen to the first couple episodes, including an interview
with Becky Soarer, Brunn and Lindsay Heaps. You can find
him in our show notes. We'll miss Ciena out on
the field kling, but congratulations and if you didn't hear it,
go back and listen to our interview with her a
couple weeks ago. She was great to Hockey. PWHL Seattle

(08:29):
has named its first head coach, Steve O'Rourke. O'Rourke has
got over fifteen years of coaching experience, most recently spending
two and a half seasons with the Ontario Hockey Leagues
Oshawa Generals. In a team statement, O'Rourke said, in part quote,
I'm incredibly excited to be joining the Professional Women's Hockey League.
This is something I've thought about since the league was
first announced. To now be given the opportunity to work

(08:50):
with the best players in the world and be part
of a professional league that is thriving both on and
off the ice is truly amazing. Being from the West
and having played hockey in Washington State, I've seen firsthand
how much the game has grown in this region. The
passion and support for hockey here is real, and I'm
proud to now be part of it in a new way.
End quote. Finally, in softball, the first trade and athletes
Unlimited Softball League history has happened as Volts outfielder Mackenzie

(09:14):
Clark has been sent to the Blaze in exchange for
outfielder Sierra Briggs. Clark has started all ten games for
the Volts this season, hitting two home runs with five
runs batted in and five runs scored. Briggs has started
in five games and appeared in ten for the Blaze.
Back at LSU, she was the first player in college
softball history to win back to back Gold Clubs all

(09:35):
Right Slices. Today marks the fifty third anniversary of Title nine,
and Accelerate Equity founder and certified Slice Pamela Seideman shared
some disappointing truths about compliance more than a half century
into the law's life. Pamela rodas quote Accelerate Equity analyzed
newly released data from the Department of Education for twenty
twenty three twenty twenty four and found that nationwide, colleges

(09:58):
provided five hundred million dollars less in athletic aid to
women than they did to men. In addition, only fourteen
percent of colleges and universities and less than eleven percent
of NCAA schools comply with the law. Our Gender Equity
Dashboard is a free public resource that shows how every
college is doing it providing equal treatment to women athletes.

(10:19):
We launch the Gender Equity Dashboard to bring visibility to
the issue of ongoing and equity in college sports, which
will get worse if the House versus NCAA settlement is
allowed to stand. The dashboard makes it easy for users
to see if women are getting an equitable number of
roster spots and athletic scholarships at any college as the
law requires. Users can also see how spending on men's
and women's sports and on recruiting compares at any school.

(10:42):
End quote, Pamela, this is exceedingly useful. Thank you. We'll
link to the dashboard in our show notes so you
can see if your college is in compliance. We got
to take a quick break when we come back. My
conversation with Lindsay.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Gibbs joining us now.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
She's the woman behind the Power Plays newsletter. She's a
sports reporter who writes about the intersection of sports, culture
and politics. In the past, she's worked as the sports
reporter for Think Progress, as one of the co hosts
of the Bernard all Down Pod, and as a freelancer
for outlets including USA Today, Vice, Sports, Bleacher Report, Tennis Magazine,
and Sports on Earth. A graduate of NY used Tish
School of the Arts. Along the way, she's worked at
America's Next Top Model, taught screenwriting, nannied and wrote a

(11:28):
historical fiction novel about real life Hall of Fame tennis
players who survived the singing of the Titanic. Mama Tamo
the Dog recent tattoo getter. It's Lindsay Gibbs. Hi, Lindsey, Hi, Sarah,
how are you. I'm good.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
I feel like you made my life sound very exciting, so.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
I mean it is. When we spoke for my old podcast,
I remember getting a deep dive into the America's Next
Top Model a portion of your resume, which is always
exciting to me.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, it's always It's a fun card to pull out,
you know, very randomly. There are a lot of people
who've known me for a very very long time, who
know nothing about that.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, period of mind, I'm still regularly telling people to smile.
So it had a deep impact on me and my
life forever, forever and ever. I want to start with
Bernad all down Pod really quick, because I have noticed
that you've twice recently united with your co host to
do live podcasts. Is there any chance that's coming back
for good?

Speaker 3 (12:21):
Oh man, we would absolutely love it. You know, if
somebody wants to pay us good money to come back.
We are here for conversations. For now, we're doing the
one off live events when people want to have us
come to their conference, I think we've still got it.
But you know, we also are really busy in our

(12:44):
careers and I think unfortunately got to a point where
we couldn't do the weekly show anymore unless it made
a little bit more since financially. So if they're financial
backers out there, come fine.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
All right, Well this is it. iHeart Women's Sports network,
full of shows about women's sports. You know, maybe we.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Know someone, maybe someone's listening once, you know, a pretty
trailblazing show if I do say so much.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, well let's talk about that because when the show
was out there, there wasn't nearly as much content around
women's sports. There wasn't nearly as much coverage. What have
you talked about in those live shows when it comes
to trying to recap the last few years, I mean,
the current landscape of women's sports journalism and women's sports
in general has skyrocketed when compared to when you were

(13:28):
doing that show the first time around. What stands out
to you about what's changed, both in the sports world
and also in the coverage of it.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, I mean absolutely things have changed as far as
a lot of ratings valuations. Team valuations is the biggest
thing that's changed. If you look at we did a
live show in Portland a few years ago that was
in the middle of the sale of The Spirit to
Michelle Kang. I remember we got the news during that

(13:57):
live show. It was at a soccer supporters group that
that scale had gone through for thirty million dollars, and
everyone during that live show was just like, that was
an astronomical number. And here we are three years later,
you know, with two hundred and fifty million dollar valuations
for NWSL clubs and WNBA clubs. So that's the biggest thing.

(14:21):
But I think, honestly, what strikes us is how much
things are the same as far as so many of
those conversations that we had. I mean, in our very
first episodes of Burn It All Down, we talked about racism,
intersectional coverage of athletes in the WNBA. We talked about

(14:44):
the anti trans legislation and transphobia and the threat that
was posing. You know, we've been covering these issues, so
I think what's what's striking is that the spotlight is bigger,
the checks are bigger, but this has all been here,

(15:06):
it's all been happening, and I think that's something we're
both proud of. And it can be a little frustrating
as well. And you know, you feel like you, just
as I'm sure you do on this show, you just
want to yell out every single day like I told
you so? Like can I just get a T shirt
that just says I told you so? But that doesn't

(15:26):
really do any good, but it might make me feel better.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Okay, So tell everyone about the power Plays newsletter. What
first inspired you to launch it and what was your
goal in creating it? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (15:36):
So I had been working at a psite called think Progress,
where I covered the intersection of sports and politics. Lived
in Washington, DC. You know, during this was during the
first Trump administration. It was quite a time to be
covering that beat. And during my free time, I also
freelanced in women's sports, primarily on the Washington Mystics beat.

(16:00):
But what became more and more part of my job
and what I pushed to cover more and more at
think Progress was women's sports and the ways that women's
sports in general just covered every single political issue that
you needed a lens through, right, It all kind of

(16:20):
intersected at this point, and since there were fewer people
covering it, it just became more and more a part
of what I was doing on a day to day basis.
When Think Progress was shut down, I got an opportunity
through substack to launch a newsletter. And when I was

(16:42):
asked what I wanted to be about, I just wanted
it to be about women's sports, but it it was
you know, that's it's a niche, but it's very broadly yes,
as you know, right, we know that, yes, like people
true we started, people were like, well enough to talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
I'm like, uh, excuse me, will there'd be enough of
us and time and minutes to like cover all the
things that are to talk.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
About, right, Yeah, it's you know, there's so many different
you know, sections of women's sports. But what really interests
me is the power dynamics at play, both interpersonal and societal.
I think sports, at the end of the day, are
about power, right, They're about attention, about money, about advertising,

(17:27):
about community, and all of these things are sources of power.
Why have historically women's sports been so marginalized and you know,
to the extremes banned by governments for women because they
were afraid of the power it would give to women.

(17:49):
And so that's where kind of the name power plays
came from. And it became my hope to kind of
look at history of women's sports, the present day of
women's sports, and the power structures and media coverage of
that and try and take a big picture of view
of the growth that was happening.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
What's your process when you're choosing topics to write about?

Speaker 3 (18:11):
Such a good question. The past two months have been
very slow in the newsletter. I like on the way,
but we're about to get really going for the summer.
There's gonna be some specials, There's gonna be a lot
of news for my loyal subscribers, so stay tuned and
hopefully some new people to come on board. But it's
really hard. I have to admit I have ADHD and
I do not work well by myself. I need infrastructure

(18:38):
to be really successful, and you don't have that as
an individual. So a lot of my life is about
creating infrastructure. It's about working on my mental health and
physical health. When you work for people and you go
to an office every day and you have people tell
you what to do, and the kind of the executive
functioning part of your job is outsourced a little bit,

(19:00):
I find that I can be more tired and unhealthy
and get through the day. But when it's just me,
I really have to take care of myself in ways
that I've never had to take care of myself before,
and so that's interesting to find. But I'm five and
a half years in this and I don't have the
exact answers of what my process is, which is probably

(19:21):
the problem. But I'm always working on three or four
reported stories at a time. I'm always following all the
current things that are happening when things are at their peak.
I'm also doing one or two historical posts per month.
So I'm you know, keeping up with the calendar of
the women's sports which is you know, is a full

(19:43):
time job itself, and looking at what, you know, what
history I can tie in and what big picture stories
I can kind of connect together, whether that's through original
reporting like some pieces I'm working on maybe about the
North Carolina Courage and kind of what they've been going

(20:03):
through the past few years, or other stories that are
in the in the mix that don't want.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
To really talk okay yet you're well, you're welcome to
break that news here on what you're working for, or.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Whether it's monitoring media coverage right and adding some context
to that, whether it's using history, like uh, you know,
during the Women's Final Four, was really excited that he
get my friend and Burn All Down co host Jessica
Luther to share some of her dissertation on Texas women's
basketball in the History of Texas Women's Basketball, and that's

(20:34):
when Texas was in the Final four. And so I
think in that way, I'm always hoping that Power Plays
isn't going to keep you up to date with everything,
but I hope it adds context to the biggest women's
sports stories of the day, and that's the word I

(20:57):
keep coming back to as my my beacon is context.
What context can I add that I think is missing
from the telling of this story. And I think now
with the way women's sports media coverage is boomy but
also taking on lives of its own, that isn't always productive,

(21:21):
I think that context. Although I have doubts about where
my place in the media ecosystem falls with all the
changes we've seen, I do think that context is more
important than ever.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
One thousand percent, and it leads me perfectly to my
next question, which was about that. One of the things
that I've respected so much about your work and value
so much about your work, especially things you dive into
that I'm not as familiar with, is you're one of
the couple people that I really follow their work to
be given the context, the historical reporting, the information that

(21:53):
offers the kind of information required to understand the story
and really get it, and you're so good at that.
You use the kind of fact checking and reporting that
so many places maybe don't do, and the interviews that
you do as well. We try to do that a
lot here to producer. Alex is especially good about being
like well an important thing to note about that record
is it's you know, based on this and there was

(22:13):
a different number of games in the schedule, or this
is the first year they've allowed this, or things like that,
which takes time and effort. And I wonder, when you're
doing all that work, if you have the same go
to sources, if you have people that make introductions for you.
Because you are just yourself, You're not a big outlet.

(22:34):
You're having to reach out and find folks to give
you the information that you need to provide the context.
Do you have a process for that?

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I mean, so much of it is just historical research.
So newspapers dot com is my best friend. It's the
best subscription I pay for out of the many I
pay for that I forget about. But newspapers dot Com
is uh is a lifeline for me. But also books,
and you know, his story works because I think we

(23:02):
find so much through that and a lot of my
stories come from me just wondering. And I think that
Another thing that I try and do is take advantage
of the fact that I am an independent source and
don't have to follow the same reporting formats that more

(23:24):
traditional outlets do, so I can kind of take readers
on a journey with me that says, I don't know
everything about this topic, but let's see what we can
find together.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Well, and you have a point of view on it,
which I think too. You combine the sort of fact
checking and reporting that's necessary to tell these stories correctly,
but you're not averse to actually taking a stand or
reflecting a point of view on it. So you're combining
sort of editorial with reporting.

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah, I think when people are following me, I mean,
I've been doing this for almost fifteen years, so at
this point I've been in this space and been writing
about gender and sports and the intersections of the media
and power for so long that I think people do
follow me for my perspective, and I think there are

(24:16):
much better reporters out there. I think there are much
better writers out there. There are people who know a
lot more about individual sports, for sure, they're definitely better
analysts and women's sports in every single way. But I
think what I can do is combine it together a
love for the game and acknowledgment of the history, a

(24:38):
curiosity to find out more, and a progressive viewpoint that
I'm very very confident in and committed to and open
about because I just don't see any reason to be
to hide that. I mean, I worked at a progressive
new political newsroom, so I've been lucky to be in

(24:59):
spaces where expressing a viewpoint as long as it's you know,
their facts to back it up, It's been encouraged. And
I've taken that with me into power plays and I
think run with it. You know, I'm not going to
both sides the anti trans issue. That doesn't mean I'm

(25:20):
not going to give some grace or try to handhold
or hopefully provide lifelines to people who don't understand the
issue fully and want to learn more about it. And
I certainly don't want purity tests for anything in women's sports,
because I think we're all learning and growing and trying

(25:40):
to figure out things as we go and I certainly
am not perfect. But I'm not going to pretend that
there is great merit to taking sports away from transgender
youth like that's just not.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
To me.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
That would be a waste of time.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, I completely agree, and I think there's a real
need for perspective buoyed by facts and experience and the
ability to sort of synthesize these ideas that are out
there into a compelling argument because there are too many
folks right now both sides in so extremely serious things,
like the most serious things, And so the impact of

(26:20):
women's sports and the opinions people have on it and
how it intersects with societal issues is actually much more
powerful than I think a lot of people are willing
to admit. So we need more strong voices like yours.
Do you have a dream athlete or team or topic
that you'd love to interview or write about?

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Oh, my gosh, I mean, oh there's that's such a
good question, and there are so many right now especially,
but I think for me, I want to keep reporting
on and learning more about the first pro athletes that
we had in all of these sports, but going back

(27:01):
to even previous iterations of Pro women's basketball, these various
pro softball leagues that we've had stop and start, as
we're now getting into athletes unlimited in this new league launching.
You know, I did a story that was just archival
research on you know, Major League volleyball and former iterations

(27:23):
of Pro women's volleyball. I think there's so many valuable
lessons to be learned from leagues that have launched and
quote unquote failed or shut down. And I think that
what these women went through and the ways they the
word sacrifice I think is maybe too reductive, but the

(27:48):
ways they persevered and held hope for women's sports during
times when it was anything but in vogue to do so,
I think just sets such a great example. And it's
why I think history you can't fully appreciate any of

(28:08):
these moments in women's sports without understanding some of the history.
And I don't know that history either until I go
back and look for it. I didn't grow up in
a world where women's sports was the norm. I grew
up in Greensboro, North Carolina, in a place where I
watched ACC basketball, but that meant men's basketball. North Carolina

(28:31):
Targhills won the national championship the women Charlotte Smith on
a buzzer beater. I didn't hear that about that till
like ten years ago, you know, like I didn't experience
these moments in real time. I'm angry about it, and
I want to do the research on what I missed
and figure out how we can make sure that engaged
sports fans and people who love women's sports or are

(28:54):
open to loving women's sports don't miss out on these
things being part of their lives and their media total.
It's going forward.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
I love that. That's so true. Yeah, being like a
diehard sports fan growing up, I didn't have female role
models and I wasn't watching leagues, and part of that
was because my parents weren't super into sports. So I
just gravitated to the most obvious and clear things directly
in front of me, which was you know, Michael Jordan
and the nineties bulls. That was like my main thing,
but you could not escape them. So that was a

(29:24):
very clear thing to fall in love with. And I
think if folks had introduced me to more opportunities in
the women's side, I would have been really compelled by it.
We have to take a quick break more with Lindsay
Gibbs after this. Do you have a favorite of your

(29:46):
many newsletters that you've written, maybe one or two that
you might suggest to listeners who are not yet subscribed.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Honestly, I think my very first newsletter. It's wild that
I keep coming back to that so many times, and
I'm not one often pat myself on the back, but
I do think I kind of nailed the entire ethos
of power plays in one newsletter and the title is
the myth that women's sports are in peril is perpetuated
by the men in charge of them. And it looks

(30:14):
at this ongoing narrative that we hear that women's sports
are losing money and they're on the brink, and we
as men are just trying to save it with our generosity.
And it looks at how that narrative pushing has helped

(30:34):
those men in power keep the power structures as they
are and has really not been the truth of the
women's sports movement. And like I said, I revisit that
time and time again. I think that when you really

(30:54):
get down to it, people like Adam Silver publicly dismissing
the popularity of a league that they have financial investment
in and are apparently the leaders of baffling it's something
you don't see. So the question needs to be why
are they doing this? And I think the answers are

(31:16):
pretty clear. And then one I wrote more recently is
about it's not capitalism holding back women's sports, it's male fragility.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
I like that one. I remember that one, and.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
It looks at how, yes, over the past couple of years,
I'm with Kaitlin Clark. These numbers that we've seen are incredible,
but they're not a historical. There are comps for them.
We have seen almost eight million people watched the Women's

(31:49):
NCAA Championship before. It's not the seventeen million people, but
it's much more than we were getting in recent years.
And if you look at that number, that's from nineteen
ninety five, and after getting that huge number, it was
taken off network television for almost twenty years. Women's INCAA Final.

(32:09):
Once again, these are not decisions that are based on capitalism.
If you look back at stars, there are examples of
you know, of course we have Kaitlin Clark the way
that she helped sell out arenas all across the college
sports landscape, but there was a similar phenomena with Candice
Parker and with Britney Griner that was chronicled in like

(32:32):
the New York Times, where away arenas would have five
times their typical attendance when these players were at the
peaks of their athletic prowess. The problem was there wasn't
the infrastructure to follow them to the WNBA and to
keep maximizing upon that popularity. It wasn't these there simply

(32:54):
wasn't the exposure. I think a part of the Kaitlin
Clark effect that doesn't get talked about as much is
I mean, women's sports is incredibly lucky to have Caitlin Clark.
I am incredibly lucky to be living and working in
this space during her time. There is something singular about her,
don't get me wrong. But also there was this ecosystem

(33:17):
there to capitalize on it in a way there would
not have been seven years ago. She really did come
at a time where it was possible to capture the
attention in the way that she has. And so I
think that you need to look at all of these
forces in context. And I think that newsletter about the

(33:40):
ways that capitalism and male fragility have worked in tandem
to keep women's sports marginalized once again, there's a lot.
I provide a lot of facts and data that I
think are really useful.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
I've mentioned on this show in the past that I
wrote age thesis about Michael Jordan coming at the same
time as the globalization of cable and how his star power,
his unique charisma, his incredible talent also happened to arrive
at the same time that the game was becoming more
global and allowed him to become even more famous and
spectacular than any previous star had been. And actually, there's

(34:20):
a New Yorker story out this week about Caitlin Clark
that compares Michael Jordan and Kaitlyn Clark and the timing
of their arrival and everything else, and whether it's their
singular excellence that has propelled them or a combination of factors,
and that kind of context is what's so necessary. And
I think the reason you point out those two stories
and why I've been drawn to your work and David Barry,

(34:42):
and why in my presentations over the last few years,
in particular, when asked to speak on the growth of
women's sports, I always come back to intention. That the
product is consistently blamed without any discussion of the intention
to bury it, ban it, prevent it, whole it back.
And that comes back to the male fragility you mentioned

(35:02):
in that one newsletter that so many times across history
we've dug a little deeper and found out that women
were thriving and excelling, and then men got pissed about it,
and they decided to banish them to a side channel
where literally banish them from playing, and without that information,
we will keep having these cycles where we're trying to
convince people that the product is worthy when the problem

(35:24):
is actually the system that it lives within. And so
I love that you're consistently beating that drum and bringing
the facts and the information to back it up.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
And also just think it's really important in this moment,
as we're on this peak to be wary of what's
to come, because they're.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
One thousand percent we looking.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
At history, we know one hundred percent there is going
to be blowback. I'm not sure exactly what form that's
going to take, but there are is going to be
purposeful moves to try and squash this momentum, and a
lot of it's going to come from some of the

(36:02):
same people who are championing it. Right now. It's gone
person And if we haven't studied history, if we haven't
looked at what's happened to these other leagues, what's happened
to these other stars, what's happened to these other rating cycles,
We're we're going to miss it.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah, I think the administration is going to be a
big part of that. I think House versus NCAA and
how and where that applies to title nine. I think
trans inclusion. I think all the different intersections that happen
at women's sports make for some pretty easy lines to
draw between the folks in charge and their desire to

(36:41):
put women in their place, and what that means for empowered,
embodied women, which are very often athletes and role models,
and the folks that are getting out in front of
this stuff. So I think you're completely right about that.
We have to be very wary. I want to ask
you about your subscribers. You're at nearly twelve thousand. That's
a lot. A lot of folks dream of turning their

(37:02):
sports writing into a full time gig. Are you able
to support yourself with power Plays? Do you find that
you're adding other gigs to supplement Can people see you
and be like, Oh, she's living the dream and how
did you figure out how to do it?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Gosh, that's such a load of question right now, because
I mentioned it's been a rough few months of work,
But overall, yes, power plays has been my primary source
of income over the past five years. I have gone
through a lot of family stuff in that time where
I haven't necessarily been kind of getting by has been
good enough for my attention span. I have been fully

(37:37):
focused on growing and thriving financially and really growing a
business as much as just maintaining what I have as
I had to put my attention elsewhere, but it has
I do. I am a full time sports reporter, primarily
work in women's sports. I do take some freelance projects.

(37:58):
I have been co slates, hang Up and listen podcasts
for a while now, and that is a gig that
isn't just women's sports, but is some women's sports. But yeah,
this is my life. I don't have I tell people,
I don't have a trust fund, I don't have a
rich partner, I don't have anything besides the work that

(38:22):
I do on a day in, day out basis, and
I am able to make it work. I'm very lucky.
I have very patient and graceful subscribers, and I am
working on giving back to them a lot. And the
rest of this year is really going to be focused
on growing and giving back to the power Place community.

(38:44):
And I'm so excited for it because I'm so grateful
for the support I've gotten. But do I want more? Yeah,
it's time to get more.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah. I love that you know you mentioned earlier, there
are some challenges for you, in particular being your own boss,
and as much frustration as there is a working at
a large company and everything from you know, filling out
paperwork and dealing with the back end of their website
and how do you report your expenses and blah blah blah,
there's also a lot to working for yourself because you

(39:15):
have to report and write it, you have to promote it,
you have to market yourself. You have to try to
get an audience. You have to figure out your bills
and expenses and your taxes for the things that are
write offs. How do you manage sort of lindsay the
reporter writer who just wants to do that, versus understanding
that lindsay the business person has to show up often
enough to get that work out there.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
I'm terrible at it, and when I figured it out,
I'll let you know. Now, listen, the hardest thing for
about every single thing about this job is against what's
natural to me, as far as the amount of self
promotion is necessary, as far as holding yourself accountable to deadlines,

(39:56):
as far as you know the business acumen required, and
just the kind of day to day maintenance it's all
really difficult, but I think that's ultimately where the beauty
in life lies, because ultimately I am choosing this, I

(40:18):
have chosen this path. I do love what I do,
and there's just a lot of discomfort that comes with
it on a day to day basis for me, and
I think when we're younger or any age, really, there
can be this myth that living the dream involves just
joy and comfort and ease at all times. And I

(40:41):
think that I've really come to understand that living the
dream involves daily discomfort.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
And you've got to earn the dream.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
You have to re earn the dream every day, and
so I'm learning I've really changed my mindset around that,
and I'm it's been really helpful, but it's hard. I
don't want to pretend like it hasn't been incredibly hard
for me. No.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I think it's good to be honest for people. But
I also think I love that last point because sometimes
the story that we tell ourselves is the one we believe.
And you just said that there's so many aspects of
this are unnatural for you are not a fit. But
I would argue that you've created a space where you
don't have insane deadlines, because the deadline is when you
want to put something up again. You don't want to

(41:27):
go too long in between stories. It will affect people's
interest in it if you do have you know, not
enough content or whatever. You know, eventually you do have
to put work up. But it's not like working for
somewhere where it's like a story a day, a story
a week, whatever that is. So there's a lot of
ways to also reframe the story for yourself that you've
found a way to best use your skills and still

(41:48):
have a little nudge every once in a while when
required to make sure you get it out there.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
Thanks for life, coach Sarah, I like, well, you.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Know, I've been working on the stories, and if you
repeat them long and if you like, really really ingrain them,
and then one day you might wake up and be like,
that's not actually true about me at all.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
You know, it's constant work. And you know, one of
the things I love about sports is the way that
you see people in really tangible ways working through problems
on a day and day out basis. And I always
think it's fascinating that the best athletes in the world,
the best basketball players in the world, miss free throws

(42:28):
every day, and they have to go out and practice
the most basic shot in their sport, a shot that
you would think is automatic. They still can struggle with that.
The pressure can still impact that, you know, every single
part of their jobs they have to continue to work

(42:50):
at in order to sometimes even stay at a level
lower than their best. You know, depending on what you are.
And I think there's so many great lessons. I am
the farthest thing from an athlete.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I'm not like you.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
I didn't have this college athletics experience, but is someone
just trying to get through the day on a day
to day basis.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
You can take a lot from it.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
I take a lot from it.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, I was going to say, like, I am very
grateful for being sort of a year round, lifelong athlete
through college because in a non maniacal way, I am
always self assessing and self improving. It's extremely important to
me because I grew up with this constant daily assessment
of am I getting better? What do I need to
work on? And being really open to asking that. And

(43:34):
I've often been at jobs and told my bosses like,
I want more feedback. Can you give me more feedback?

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (43:39):
And they're like, you're doing great, and I'm like, no,
what am I doing wrong? What can I get better at?
Like I'm constantly wanting to look at that. And I
think that's a skill from sports that some people don't
have or they fear that kind of feedback instead of
like welcoming it and then like being able to put
it to you. So I think that's such a great point.
Watching athletes every day, even the very best ones recognize

(43:59):
that constant cycle of improvement is necessary to evolution, is
really important. All right, last question. You mentioned that some
big things are coming up. You've been on like a
little bit of a heatus over there, So anything you
could tell us about or are you just going to
give us the big tease of keep your eyes on
this site, keep your eyes on this site.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I know, I think that I think that, you know,
there's so many big, big stories we're looking into from
I think explaining and talking to experts about how this
House versus NCAA settlement is really going to impact the
women's sports world and continuing to check in on that
story to looking at and wrestling with what we want

(44:43):
from our women's sports teams during this day and the
Trump administration. I think we were getting very different things
from women's sports during the first Trump administration, then maybe
we're getting now. And I am asking myself the question
of what do what does it that even want from
my favorite athletes right now? And I don't know, but

(45:04):
I think it's something that we should all wrestle with
together and openly. There's a lot of historical uh you know,
beats coming up. I will be at WNBA All Star,
so very excited for that.

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Awesome that.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
I've got a lot of CBA stuff coming up with
the w NBA CBA. We're going to do history of
CBAS and women's sports and kind of look at how
we got to this current moment in the CBA, because
I think it's really easy to shit on the current deal.
Excuse me, I don't know if I'm allowed to cuss.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
You're welcome to you.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
It's really easy. But once again, I think when you
add context to.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That, Yeah, when I first arrived, it was a big deal.
They were incredibly proud of just a few years ago. Yeah,
it was a big step at the time.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
And this week we'll be kind of wrestling with pride
and the kind of the state of LGBTQ issues in sports.
And I have to give a shout out to another podcast,
The Recap Show with Kristin Press and Tobin Heath who
they've had some stuff this month that's really helped me
reframe how I was thinking of Pride Games and the
way I was thinking about the role women's sports play

(46:12):
in our world right now. And that's making me a
little bit more empathetic to people who are not where
I am as far as acceptance and education and tolerance.
And it's made me want to be a little bit
more open and graceful and content being in the gray area.

(46:36):
And I like it when I end up in unexpected places.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
I love that. We'll have to check that out. Thanks
for the rec and thanks so much for coming on.
We're looking forward to what's next.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Thank you so much for this. It was I'm such
a fan of the show. I love you, I love
Misha and Alex. I've known forever, especially Misha when I
know Misha's a baby now, but I knew when it
was baby, baby, Mesha baby.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
They were even younger at one point than this.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Listen, listen not too much, not too much, because Lindsay
knew Lindsay knew me before I knew what the hell
I was doing.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
So and can they say like they know now?

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so funny. Uh yeah. When they
were in still in college, we would sit next to
each other at the Mystics games. So it's been it's
been a while, but yeah, love what you're doing on the.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Next time you're on lots of baby meche stores. Yes,
that's what we're starting with.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Sounds great.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Thanks so much to Lindsay for joining us. We got
to take another break when we come back. He's a Nazi. Dana,
Welcome back, Slices. I got a shout out slice Dana
Holtzburg for making a ridiculous fake poster after my interview
with Canadian hockey super call Lauris Stacy and Maury Philip Pulen.

(48:02):
The poster, which is a nod to the old movie
Hunt for Red October, has my giant red face on
it and says the hunt for Marcus, The hunt is on.
She's gay Marcus. It's too much. We'll put a link
in the show notes so you can see it. Also
an update Dana and other slices. We did joke in
that interview that we haven't heard from Marcus lately, and

(48:22):
it turns out that's for the best because producer Alex
checked in on his social account and he appears to
be an actual Nazi. So hunt for Marcus is officially over.
Let's go ahead and let Marcus live and die in
his little wholesomewhere in hell. We always love that you're listening,
but we want you to get in the game every
day too, So here's our good game play of the day.
Follow Lindsay on social media and check out our newsletter

(48:45):
power plays. We'll link to both of them in our
show notes. She's almost at thirteen thousand subscribers, so maybe
if a couple of you subscribe, it'll put her over
the top. We love to hear from you. Hit us
up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com, or
please leave us a voicemail so we can hear your
Endie Jelic Voice at eight seven two two four fifty seventy,
and don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review. It's real

(49:06):
easy watch. Friend of the show. Jennifer King, working the
sidelines for the Women's National Football Conference Championship game, rating
five out of five stars a natural review. The WNFC
played its title game on Saturday, and if you tuned in,
you might have noticed a familiar face. Jennifer King, the
first black woman to be named a full time NFL coach,

(49:27):
got the sideline reporter assignment for the game and she
did it. Damn good job. We'll link to her postgame
interview with members of the winning squad, the Texas Elite
Spartans in our show notes. We love seeing folks try
something new and let me tell you, sideline reporting might
look easy, but it is not an easy gig. So
kudos to Jennifer for expanding her horizons. Hopefully we see

(49:48):
her on more broadcasts in the future. Now it's your turn,
y'all rate and review. Come on, go do it, Come
on five stars, say something nice. Thanks for listening. We'll
see you tomorrow. Good game, Lindsay, Good game, Jennifer, you Marcus.
Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports

(50:09):
production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You
could find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones. Our Executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutterer.
Our editors are Emily Rutterer, Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch and

(50:30):
Gianna Palmer. Our associate producer is Lucy Jones and I'm
Your Host Sarah Spain

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