August 29, 2024 • 38 mins
Paralympian powerhouses Alana Nichols and Scout Bassett join Sarah to talk about how they got into adaptive sports, cheating in the Paralympics and why the word “inspirational” should be used with care. Plus, hot corn does more than pop, and we get 'ship names from some slices.
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Follow Alana on X here
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Follow Scout on X here
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Read Everyday Feminism’s explainer on empowerment and objectification here
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Check out the "Pablo Torre Finds Out" episode on cheating in the Paralympics here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're tying
bows to the backs of our shoes and dresses to
see if it gives us Naomi Osaka's superpowers. On today's show,
it's group Chat time. Two Paralympic badasses, Elena Nichols and
Scout Bassett, joined me to talk about the Paris Paralympics,
the biggest misconceptions around adaptive sports, and why the word
inspirational should be used with care. Plus, you can't win
(00:23):
if you lose, and the intero bang inspires our new
favorite nickname. It's all coming up right after this welcome back.
Here's what you need to know today. We're going to
keep it quick because we've got a great interview to
get to first Paralympics. The cauldron has been reignited and
(00:45):
the Paralympics are officially open. Today marks the first of
eleven days of competition. Some things to keep an eye
on today. In wheelchair rugby, the US and Canada, both
longtime powerhouses in the sport, are going to go head
to heading group play. There's also a ton of swimming
finals of them, in fact, will dive deeper into Paralympic
competition later in today's group Chat. NCAA Volleyball is Back Baby.
(01:07):
The season officially kicked off on Tuesday with the star
studded AVCA First Serve Showcase. Number two. Nebraska defeated number
nine Kentucky, with Rebecca Alec and Merrett Beeson posting a
team high eleven kills for the Huskers, and we got
to give a shout out to Nebraska assistant coach Jordan Larson.
She came out of retirement to make another Olympic run,
(01:27):
winning silver with Team USA less than three weeks ago,
and she also left Paris with a few bumps and bruises.
After going out to celebrate their silver medal. Larson and
one of her teammates were getting a ride home in
an uber when their driver hit a pole. She posted
about the accident on her Instagram story, saying, quote, decided
to go out with the bang. Everyone is safe. Things
definitely could have been worse end quote. Happy to hear
(01:48):
she's okay and incredible to see she was already back
on the Huskers sideline to open the season. In the
latest Athletes On Magazine covers News, our rugby queen Alona
mar continues her post Olympic domination by being a digital
cover girl for the latest Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. Other
athletes in this year's edition include Sue Bird, Megan or Pino,
(02:08):
Paralympian Brenna Huckabee, and Cincinnati hooper Jillian Hayes. Some are
in swimsuits, some are glammed up in suits and dresses
to be a part of the sixtieth anniversary Legends photoshoot.
Congrats to all involved. I hope you felt powerful, beautiful,
and inspiring while posing your butts off. And also, I've
never really been a fan of the SI Swimsuit Issue,
(02:30):
especially when it was just models interrupting my weekly sports subscription.
It felt like it definitely wasn't for me, and it
reminded me that maybe the magazine and sports in general
wasn't intended for me. It certainly wasn't inspiring, it certainly
wasn't empowering. Now, I've always loved the ESPN Body Issue
and how it showed how so many different kinds of
(02:50):
bodies can be great, powerful, triumphant, victorious. I found that
one to be a really good excuse for the nudity.
But SI's mag just always reminded me how and women
are reduced to objects. That being said, though, in recent years,
SI has expanded the swimsuit issue to include different body types,
different ages, and lots of athletes. And if badass bitches
(03:12):
like Sue and Pino, Brianna Stewart, Naomi Osaka Crystal Dunn
are doing it and they feel good about it and
they endorse it, then that's what matters, because ultimately, the
difference between empowerment and objectification is who has the power.
There's a fantastic illustrated explainer on that on Everyday Feminism
dot Com and I always come back to it and
send it to people when I'm trying to figure out
(03:34):
where that line is in a certain situation. We'll link
to it in the show notes. You could check it out.
In the meantime, I'll just be looking at the beautiful
photos of Sue and Pino in their suits. We're going
to take a quick break. When we come back, it's
group chat with Elena and Scout. We'll talk about how
the Paralympics make a host city better during the games
and after leaving behind more accessible spaces. Very cool obviously
(03:55):
that this year's Paralympic village is one hundred percent accessible
to meet the needs of every pair of Apple. But
even after the games leave, there are decisions made around
city planning that reflect that the Paralympics were just there.
We also talk about finding their way to adaptive sports
and about cheating in the Paralympics, including folks trying to
fudge their classification status. You can check out a recent
Pablo Tory finds Out episode for a great, super fascinating
(04:18):
deep dive into that. We'll link to that in the
show notes. Stick around. It's time for another group chat
where we take the tea from the text onto the airwaves.
Joining us now. She's a wheelchair basketball, alpine skiing and
para canoe superstar, a five time Paralympian and six time medalists,
(04:39):
three gold, two silver, one bronze. She's the first American
woman with gold medals in the Summer and Winter Paralympic Games.
She now competes in surfing and is aiming to get
that sport into the Paralympics. She won the first ever
all female adaptive surf competition in history and scored the
first ever perfect ten in ISA parasurfing history. Mom to Gunner,
teaching us all some lessons about parenting and her int.
(05:00):
She's past president of the Women's Sports Foundation. She once
gifted me an awesome pair of hearings. It's Elena Nichols ay,
thank you, Sarah, and that brings us to the current
president of the Women's Sports Foundation. She qualified for her
first Paralympic team of twenty sixteen, competing in the long
jop in one hundred meters. She's a two time bronze
medallist at the World Championships a seven time national champion
(05:21):
in one hundred meter. Her book Lucky Girl Lessons on
Overcoming Odds and Building a Limitless Future was released in
September of last year. We were on the Gatorade Women's
Advisory Board together and fun fact, we have the same birthday.
It's Scout Bassett. I were born to shine, That's all
I have to say. Also, is eight year lucky number two.
It is because you're eight eighteen eighty eight and I'm
(05:42):
eight eighteen eighty So we were just we had no
other choice. Okay, Elena, let's start with you, because you
are headed to Paris very soon. You're going to be
a host at the Team USA house. Tell us about
that role and how different it feels going to the
Games to be supportive instead of competing. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, actually I'm headed to Paris very soon, as in
in about three hours, so I'll be flying around noon today.
And I am just so I'm so stoked and honored
that this is the first ever Paralympics that Team USA
House will remain open for the Paralympic Games, so it's
(06:20):
always been available to the Olympic athletes. I gotta say
this games has such a different energy about it. I've
never seen so many Olympians hyping the Paralympics, just like
Katie Ledecky getting on Insta yesterday being like, let's go Paralympics.
So chills. I'm like stoked. And so I get to
(06:41):
be a host at Team USA House, which involves interviews.
I actually am taking a lot of notes from you,
Sarah Spain on m seeing and how to keep this
crowd really hyped. And I don't think it's going to
be hard, So I'm really excited. I am like, you know,
it's interesting to be a former athlete and go and
(07:04):
just feel like, man, I think I still got it,
you know, fighting those feelings of like I want to
I want like go for it, you know, Yeah, but
I feel really content with this position that I'm in
and I'm just so grateful to be involved.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I completely agree with you about the hype around the Paralympics,
whether that's tickets sold, whether that's Olympians telling people to watch,
whether that's the hype around the games that just made
people want more and then say, Okay, awesome that means
Paris in a couple of weeks leading up to now,
when it just feels like the attention is what's been
deserved for years. Scout, you competed in the US Paralympic
(07:41):
Track and Field Trials this year. You came up just
short in your bid to return to the Games. Tell
us about that competition and how you're handling that disappointment
and your excitement about the games all the same.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Well, for one, we knew going into the trials that
there were a lot of hurdles and struggles and challenges,
so it was always going to be a.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Bit of.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
A long shot in some ways. But it's okay.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I'm actually quite excited because I'm also born to Paris,
but in a completely different role with some partners, and
so I'll be doing like Elena lots of work on
this trip, but really excited to experience the magic of
the games from a different perspective. And I also I'm
(08:29):
really excited about all the energy and momentum that's going
into this and I think it's a really good thing
because we have a Paralympic Games in four years in
la and just to see the success of what the
Olympics has been like for Paris, hopefully the same will
be said for the Paralympics.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned partners. You both could give a
ted talk on sponsorships and partners. You guys are the
queens of getting that shit done, which I love. I
want to go back in time to people who don't know,
tell us how you got into adaptive sports and which
of your many because there are many you got into first.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, right, So I was an athlete. My entire life
started off with t ball, got really serious about fast
pitch softball, my you know, as my career progressed and
into high school when in my senior year, I actually
was out backcountry snowboarding, over rotated a backflip, landed on
what I later learned was about a four foot boulder
(09:30):
underneath the snow, broke my back in three places, became
paralyzed upon impact. I had college scholarships at my fingertips
at that time.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And you know, had to restart, just restart button, figure
it all back out, learn how to sit up, learn
how to dress yourself, learn how to be a human
in a wheelchair, and then think the.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Universe and the source of it all that I came
across wheelchair backsketball because I've been an athlete my entire
life and that didn't change when I became paralyzed, and
so I you know, it was like this beautiful moment
that I came across wheelchair basketball. Was just awestruck. My
job was on the floor that I could see these people,
(10:18):
you know, ten people in wheelchairs playing five on five,
same hoop I, same court length, same three seconds in
the lane. Internationally, like it was so fast and aggressive
and low key violent, and I was like, I want
to do that. I want to play that sport. And
I got into it, and you know what, it opened
(10:38):
up so many doors. I started playing, and you know,
found some opportunities to play collegiately at Arizona, wrapped up
my master's degree at Alabama, played my first Paralympics in
two thousand and eight in bengjingg Like Cinderella's story, it
all came true. Won the gold medal in an undefeated
tournament and couldn't believe my life. Right, Like it was
(11:03):
eight years prior to that that I became paralyzed and
thought my athletic career was over. A little did I
know it was like just beginning and going to be
better than ever. So I went on to go to
four more Games and became the first female to win
golden the summer and winter, and wow, what a trip.
It was such a beautiful moment. But I will say
(11:24):
to your point, Sarah, there wasn't this hype around Paralympics.
And when I won my second gold medal at the
twenty ten Games in alpine skiing, you couldn't watch that
on TV. You had to like watch the forty five
minutes special after the games were over and hopefully catch
some highlights, you know. And so it's just been such
(11:47):
a cool experience to be a part of the growth
that's happened, and then also just hype it as a
former athlete.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Now you're a current athlete, your current athlete athlete, I
am sure all we're an athlete potentially former paralympian, although
I'm not counting you out on surfing or something else
if you get it in there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And also we say forever athlete around here instead of former.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We say I love that forever athlete. That's the truth. Actually,
thank you for that. Yes, And once a paralympian, always a.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Parent, that's right. That's right, Scout.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
How about you, Gosh.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I got into I mean a bit of a long story,
but I lost my leg when I was involved in
a chemical burn as a young infant and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Was placing an orphanage.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I came to the US their adoption at seven
years old. And I think as somebody who came to
America being an outsider, growing the foreigner, growing up in
a community where there wasn't a lot of people that
looks like me. I was looking for an outlet, somewhere
to go to, like kind of geo sense of belonging.
(13:02):
And I've always been active as a kid, and so
just got involved in sports pretty much right away when
I came here. It was about second grade and then,
but it was such a long journey. I didn't start
running until I was fourteen years old. That was the
first time I ever got a running prosthetic, and then
(13:23):
I didn't know because it was a different time. I
didn't know about the Paralympics until I was a sophomore
in college at UCLA.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And because, like Elena said, it wasn't on TV.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You didn't see Paralympic athletes in marketing campaigns or ads
or on the cover anything, and so I didn't really
even know that it was such a thing and found
out my sophomore year of college, and you could say
the rest is history, but it's been just an incredible journey.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
What's incredible, too, is to get your first running prosthetic
at fourteen because you were injured and lost your life
as an infant. That means you literally didn't run until
you're Fourtine, Not, I didn't join the track team, Yes not,
I didn't try to do it competitively, but you literally didn't.
So it's incredible that to then go on and have
the success that you've had in track and field, that's
(14:14):
so bad ass. So this year there's a campaign featuring
Paralympic competitors and they're saying, I won't be participating in
Paris dot dot dot, I'll be competing. So why is
that distinction so important, Elena.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, for the exact reason that we want to draw
that hard line in the sand, that we want everybody
to know that as Paralympic athletes, there is almost nothing
that can stop us from wanting to get that gold,
just like every other Olympic athlete, Like they're incredible. These
(14:49):
athletes are training with less function in their body, just
as hard I trained at the Olympic Training Center. I
work those same hours in those same gem lifting the
same weight with less of my body. And we are
just so passionate as a Paralympic movement to help people
know like this isn't rainbows and butterflies, this is gold medal,
(15:13):
this is everything's on the line, this is metal count
and we want that just as bad as an Olympic athlete.
And you know, I love that campaign. It threw some
people off. People are like, wait, yeah, competing, you know
on the first slide, Yeah, it's time.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I'm not I'm not participating dot dot dot what Oh
my god, I'm competing? Got them you had me in
the first half. Yeah, you know, Scout, it's it's it's
a even more clarity to the very basics, which is
that I think some people here Paralympics and they even
think Special Olympics like they really do not make a
(15:48):
distinction between those events, and the difference is so vast.
They're both wonderful in their own right, but connecting the
Paralympics to the Olympics and having it be essentially the
exact same thing, just with a active sports is so
important to give it the legitimacy and to talk about
it like every other sport. How have you found that
you have embraced your role as both a competitor but
(16:11):
also an ambassador to try to teach people that there's
the same desire, the same work ethic, the same competition there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, first I want to say I understand why people
have incorrectly thought that the Paralympics was the Special Olympics.
I mean, for one, this is something that I think
is changing and improving, but also a tremendous area of work.
Is the Special Olympics is a multi billion dollar event
(16:43):
and their events and sports are televised on linear TV.
They have mega mega sponsorships, and when you think about
the Paralympics in contrast, that hasn't necessarily been the case.
And when people have had more exposure.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
To something else that's all they know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And so I think the Paralympics still has some work
in terms of just their own marketing, but also really
bringing it to a massive global audience.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
In the way that Special Olympics has.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But it has really been interesting to make that distinction
and to educate people, and also to do in a
way that doesn't you know, lesson what the Special Olympics
that is, or the rules or even those athletes. And
so it's a hard place for sure. And I think
something that would also help the Paralympics is, you know,
(17:36):
recently I've had some people saying I just wish it
wasn't such a long gap in between, because if you
start watching the Olympics and you follow all the way
through the end of the Paralympics, that is a six
week window, you know, is a very long time that
you're asking people to be engaged, to be tuned in
to follow, and so anyways, you know, I think there's
(18:01):
ways to help really bring the Paralympics to, you know,
the level of what the Olympics are.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, we talked about that a bit on the show.
Because there are the obvious just logistics of turning over events, spaces,
making spaces adaptive, the fact that technically the Paralympics is
a different logo than the Olympics, so the spaces have
to be sort of like designed differently. But there are
probably some ways to start that process to make that
gap shorter, or to find ways to be more inclusive
(18:28):
of doing some of them. At the same time, even
the experts will get on it. But yeah, I agree,
there is this part of me that's like, oh, I
wanted to just the very next day start watching Although
I understand some of the logistical issues Elena. During the Paralympics,
a lot of people use the word inspirational. It's true,
it's an inevitability, but that word isn't always a favorite
(18:49):
for the parasports community. What's your relationship with the word inspirational?
Great question.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I've actually grown and involved with that with that word.
At first, on set with that word as a newly
disabled person, it felt so condescending and pagonizing, and yeah,
(19:16):
I was overcoming some real hardship, some real adversity, but
it just didn't feel right. And so as I evolved,
you know, on my own journey, I really have grown
to embrace it as something that has also been an
(19:38):
experience for me, right, I have been inspired by athletes
with disabilities as well, and so for me it's changed
because I really am taking it from my own personal
perspective and thinking, well, you know the woman from Iran
(19:58):
that is a power lifter that had to put gallon
buckets of sand on the bar to train it home.
Like the grit and the resilience and the just sheer determination,
I'm inspired by that. Yeah, And so it feels like
it in context. It's such a great word, and it
(20:20):
has to be in the right context. Right If you're
throwing it out there like some kind of patronizing like
you're so inspiring because you're at the grocery store, that.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Doesn't feel right, right, it doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
But look at what I If I'm going seventy miles
per hour down a mountain as a skiingser with a disability,
that's inspiring. And I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I mean, I'm terrified of surfing. I'm terrified of
surfing fair and you're doing it without control of your
lower body. You're putting yourself out in the waves depending
on the rest of your body and your training and
of course your handlers. On the people there, but like,
there is so much inspiration to be gained from people
(21:03):
who are looking in the face of challenges or any
kind of adversity and saying I'm going to do it anyway,
because there are a lot of us. I hope that's
not me. I hope I'm putting myself out there in
plenty of ways, but there are people who are unwilling
to try for fear of failure and just seeing anyone.
Not to mention people who have already been handed some
difficulties doing it is it is, it's inspirational, but it
(21:25):
does need to be multi dimensional and multifaceted, and the
way that we describe Paralympians and not just be about
you're doing it. You know, it's so much more than
that scout.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
These recent Olympics, we talked a lot about gender equal
Olympics because an equal number of male and female competitors
were able to qualify for the first time. We kind
of got into, well, that doesn't necessarily mean they were
gender equal entirely, but still good steps forward. On the
Paralympics side, the number of female competitors is way behind,
and Paris just nineteen hundred and eighty three of the
(21:57):
athletes are expected to be women only. Why do you
think the Paralympics are lagging behind in that? Is it
just as simple as adding more spots or or what
do we need to do?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
That number is true, but also I would say it's
even far worse or staggering numbers in the winter Proalymic
in terms of female participation or female events and.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Athletes.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I seeing part of it is yes, from IPC they say, well,
we can't add more events or sports or for women
because there's not enough of you or there's not enough
of you competing. And so certainly I think that's part
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But also.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I think still as a society we still have ways
to go in terms of like how we portray women
with disabilities and in sport. And what I mean by
that is like so often I see like a campaign
with a male ass with the disability or just men
with disabilities in general, whether it's in entertainment or especially
(23:06):
in entertainment, and they're casted in these roles of being
very heroic and courageous and honorable, and we don't always
attach those same adjectives to women, and the focus really
I think for women largely has been that the disability
(23:26):
aspect or the imperfection, the deficiency, and I think it's changing.
But when we are able to change that narrative, then
young girls growing up with disabilities will see, Okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
What I aspire to be or want to be.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I think I mean, Elena is such a tremendous
role model. There's so many great examples, but I think
all largely has to do with our media and portrayal
of how.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
We see women with disabilities.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, and I think just society in general. I think
probably the norm is to look at a man who
either was born with or acquires a disability and say,
here's how we get you back your confidence, you're belonging
your community. It's sports because you're a guy and men
like sports. Yeah, and with women, there isn't that immediacy
of like, this is where you should go and find
this love and joy and participation which is universal regardless
(24:16):
of ability. Right, It's still that hurdle we have to
get past of believing that men are just the norm
for sports and women are just like trying it or
getting into it. Even though it's been literally centuries of
us being like we want to play give us some resources.
You know, Elena, one of the things that I've loved
talking to you about and that you so opened my
eyes on, was what a Paralympics can do for the
(24:39):
city that hosts it. We talk a lot every time
the Olympic cycle comes around about empty stadiums, displacement of people,
other negative outcomes that sometimes result from the Olympics coming
to town. But your perspective on post Paralympics towns is incredible.
Can you share a little that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, absolutely well, And I do want to just add
Scout said, I'm such a great role model. I was
feeding my kid McDonald's the other day and guess who's
in the happy meal. Guess who I open up and
see on this beautiful poster.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Oh, Scout bass in a battie And.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
I couldn't have been more proud. So thank you Scout
for doing what you do. And to comment on how
Paralympics changed the towns and the cities that they're held in.
You know, I'll never forget going to Beijing and that
was my first Games and seeing how there had just
(25:41):
been an earthquake, a devastating earthquake in one of the
nearby counts. Of Beijing, and one of the young girls
that had lost her leg in that earthquake was actually
performing at the opening ceremony of the Paralympics as a
ballerina with one leg, and around that everybody in that
(26:01):
stadium saw, Look, your life isn't over when you have
a disability. This is this is so doable. Let's work
with that, let's create, let's let's get more curious about
how we can integrate people with disabilities. And after, you know,
we were we were able to go onto the Great
Wall of China while we were there, and I guarantee
(26:23):
nobody in a wheelchair had really been on there. They
had adapted that, and all of the people saw it.
And you know, I just know that on a micro
and a macro level, this that the in the tone changes, right,
It's it's like, let's let's figure this out. We're not
shunning people with disabilities anymore. We're creating more ramps, We're
(26:47):
creating accessible spaces because that makes sense now that the
Paralympics has been healthier, that that just that's just what
we need to do. So it really requires the host
city to level up. And I love that about it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, just city planning. It requires you to think about it,
and once you've thought about it, the idea of going
back and not making somewhere accessible is sort of unthinkable.
And so when it gets to somewhere, how that changes
it is just really cool. I'm very excited to see
what happens in Los Angeles as a result of hosting
the Games in twenty twenty eight. That's going to be
pretty incredible. We're kind of running out of time here,
(27:22):
but I had one last thing I wanted to talk
to you about. My friend Pablo Torre has a great podcast,
and he just did a deep dive into cheating and
Paralympics and some of it's kind of mind blowing and
you're kind of surprised to hear about it, and then
you remember, well, duh, there's money to be made, there's
sponsorships to be earned. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
That's a whole sports phrase for a reason. It's sports
you want to win. But some of it's cheating, like doping,
(27:45):
and some of it's specific to like trying to fib
your classification, where you try to get into a class
that you may not actually belong in order to compete
differently Scout, have you had experience with this or do
you have thoughts on how to curtail it?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
First of all, I would say that form of cheating
is much more it's following the more common form in
Paralympics than the traditional you know form that people know
is through you know, ped use or something like that. Yes,
it's definitely. I've seen it with my own eyes. A
(28:21):
wheelchair athlete competing in a throwing seeded throwing event in
UH track and field video evidence of that person getting
out of their chair and walking into the elevator. They
were like, obviously not in Paralympics anymore once that was shown.
But like, it is really hard to to say what
(28:44):
the answer should be. I think one of it should
be that there just needs to be more medical evidence
and documentation of you know, perhaps a condition or or whatnot,
because so often, I know, when I got classified, I
was kind of a little shocked at like how little
(29:07):
support you know, I needed to provide in terms of
like the actual amputation was, what the level was like.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
They just looked at me and they were like, oh,
she wears a knee.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And so.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But meanwhile, we have girls in our class that actually
have their full knee joint and a little bit of
a TiVo.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So it's like, you know, I think that's part of it.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
But also like this is on the Paralympic side also
where the classifiers probably need to have a little bit
more training and experience and more knowledge of And I
don't expect these people to be experts, right, like if
you don't live with the disability or you aren't any amputee,
like do you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Even know what you're looking for?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And a lot of these classifiers are not right, And
so I think there's a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Absolutely, I want to end on a more positive note
than that. So, Elena, I was looking at your resume
two thousand and eight, gold in basketball, twenty ten, two
golds of silver and a bronze, and skiing twenty twelve,
fourth place in basketball twenty fourteen, silver and downhill twenty sixteen.
You made your debut in para canoe. Why not just
(30:20):
throw a whole other sport in there, that's fun. Do
you have a standout memory? Do you have a best
memory from all of your Paralympics?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
What an honor just to be there at the games.
But less than one percent of athletes get to metal
and then there's me that just feels I mean, how
did I get to make history and be the first woman? Right?
That just takes a fair amount of fortune. And Yeah,
(30:47):
my favorite memory I always default too is, you know,
Beijing was a Cinderella story and some of the hardest
work I've ever done. I prepared for five years. I
trained with the best women in the world, and we
all came together and won that despite so many things
that we had to overcome, including one of our coaching
(31:10):
positions had It was like adversity was coming out of anyways.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We won that goal.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That was memorable. But you know, whenever you see these
athletes on the podium and there's tears that are falling
and you think it's about the medal, it's usually more
personal than that. And in twenty ten, I lost my
brother just about six months before the Games, and the
(31:39):
sheer like heartbreak I had to work with to continue
to train, and the amount of times I had to
remind myself he would have wanted this. He was your
biggest fan. Keep going When I was crying in my
goggles and just wanted to wait, nothing mattered, Nothing mattered,
I lost a sibling, you know, and then to keep
(32:02):
going in the face of all of that, and then
to feel so favored, right, I felt just like so blessed,
like something was working for me out there. And I
came down and I won that first medal in twenty ten,
and honestly can't remember a second of it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I was crying before it came down.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I saw my name on that JumboTron, and God, the
tears were spiritual. My brother was there, and I just
felt like that was the otherworldly for me, and I'll
never forget that, and I know he was there, So yeah,
really powerful.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You have been through a lot, girl, and anybody who
follows you and knows your story understands how much of
your wisdom comes from those losses, losing your dad and
your brother and all the things, and it's turned you
into quite a powerful person. You've really spun it all
into some serious gold. So that's why I follow you.
Oh no, pun intended gold. Okay, we have to go.
(32:58):
We can't wait to watch the coverage, we can't wait
to get fired up about the Paralympics. And we're so
grateful for your perspective.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Thanks, ladies, Love you, Sarah, thank you, Thank you so
much for having us.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Everybody followed them. We're going to put their handles so
you can keep learning from their wisdom, especially Elena and
that baby Gunner. Gosh darn it, he is cute. We
got to take another break. When we come back, we
get technical and tactical with our punctuation and nicknames. It's
next Welcome back, Orange Slices. A few shows ago, we
(33:35):
told you about what appears to be a for the
love of the Game style romance between the Las Vegas
Aces Asia Wilson and the Miami Heats Bam at a bio.
They still haven't hard launched it, but that didn't stop
us from asking you for a celebrity nickname, a ship name,
if you will. We only got a few, but they
were solid. Marjorie H. Seventy nine said ja bam obviously,
(33:58):
which just makes me laugh. I don't know what, but jabam.
It's good. The winner, though. An answer that positively tickled
this English major and grammar lover was from eighty Joseph,
who said, in the spirit of the interaro bang, might
I suggest apostre bam so in case you don't know,
(34:18):
and intaro bang is a non standard punctuation mark meaning
like not official, but it's still used. It looks like
an exclamation point on top of a question mark. It's
the one you'd most often use right after you said
what the fuck. So anyway, we got the apostrophe in
Asia's name. We got bam apostra bam. Oh, it's so good.
It's so good speaking of Asia. By the way, no
(34:40):
WNBA games tonight, But a quick thought on the Aces,
because they're making headlines for the wrong reasons, and they
were a topic on a whole bunch of the debate
shows yesterday, so here's the context for that. On Tuesday,
Asia scored forty two points, but the ACE is lost
to the Dallas Wings ninety three ninety Wilson's forty two
points for the most by a player in a single
game so far this season, but her heroic weren't enough,
(35:00):
which has been a theme at times for these Aces,
and with the l they're now fifth in the WNBA standings.
They're two and four since the Olympic break, and of
course Asia said, that's all that matters. Quote, we didn't
get the win, so none of this matters. Of course,
we're going to talk about her incredible performance, but also
how her incredible performances are sometimes lost in losses for
(35:21):
the Aces, and some folks are confident that they'll figure
it out. They point to their record after Chelsea Gray
came back as the only thing that matters. You know,
once Chelsea Gray was back from injury, they've been mostly
a winning team. They just needs more time to catch
up in the standings. But others are looking at a
Liberty team that looks pretty much unbeatable and teams in
the Sun and Links that can also get a w
on any given night, and wondering if we actually need
(35:43):
to start worrying about the Aces and time running out
for them to fix things, especially their defensive woes. And
you can count me in the latter because Asia's been unstoppable.
But the Aces for me are not a favorite to
three p. They have some serious issues to fix before
the postseason, and I'm starting to wonder where I can
even slop them in the top of the league. All
season long, I've sort of felt like they're going to
(36:05):
figure it out, and now I'm not so sure. What
do you guys think. We love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game. Every day too,
So here's our good gameplay of the day. First, we'll
ask you on social how you feel about the Aces.
What's your level of confidence percentage of confidence that the
Aces will win another title? At Sarah Spain on Twitter
at Spain two three two three on Insta. You can
(36:26):
also hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork
dot com or leave us a voicemail eight seven two
two o four fifty seventy. And of course, we also
want you to watch the Paralympics and send us your questions.
Are you confused about a classification? Are you trying to
figure out why they're more than a dozen hundred meter finals?
We want to hear from you, We want to help you,
We want to put Alex to work. So hit us
(36:46):
up with those questions, and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy. Watch corn Sweat rating what the
out of five stars review Corn Sweat? Huh? First, I'm
hearing of this, but apparently we're cooking our planets so bad.
We don't just get regular swamp ass late summer Midwest heat.
(37:09):
Now our favorite rods of cernely goodness are lathering up
to and they're making our swamp asses swampier because one
acre of corn can release up to three thousand to
four thousand gallons of water a day via what's called
avapple transpiration aka corn sweat. It's the release of moisture
from maturing corn plants into the air well. This mature
(37:32):
plan over here doesn't need any help sweat, and so
stay in your lane. Corn my mouth. Now it's your turn,
rate and review. Thanks for listening, slices, See you tomorrow.
Good Game, Alena, Good Game, Scout, Huge Cheaters, Yes again
and forever. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart
(37:53):
women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez and
(38:15):
Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're tying
bows to the backs of our shoes and dresses to
see if it gives us Naomi Osaka's superpowers. On today's show,
it's group Chat time. Two Paralympic badasses, Elena Nichols and
Scout Bassett, joined me to talk about the Paris Paralympics,
the biggest misconceptions around adaptive sports, and why the word
inspirational should be used with care. Plus, you can't win
(00:23):
if you lose, and the intero bang inspires our new
favorite nickname. It's all coming up right after this welcome back.
Here's what you need to know today. We're going to
keep it quick because we've got a great interview to
get to first Paralympics. The cauldron has been reignited and
(00:45):
the Paralympics are officially open. Today marks the first of
eleven days of competition. Some things to keep an eye
on today. In wheelchair rugby, the US and Canada, both
longtime powerhouses in the sport, are going to go head
to heading group play. There's also a ton of swimming
finals of them, in fact, will dive deeper into Paralympic
competition later in today's group Chat. NCAA Volleyball is Back Baby.
(01:07):
The season officially kicked off on Tuesday with the star
studded AVCA First Serve Showcase. Number two. Nebraska defeated number
nine Kentucky, with Rebecca Alec and Merrett Beeson posting a
team high eleven kills for the Huskers, and we got
to give a shout out to Nebraska assistant coach Jordan Larson.
She came out of retirement to make another Olympic run,
(01:27):
winning silver with Team USA less than three weeks ago,
and she also left Paris with a few bumps and bruises.
After going out to celebrate their silver medal. Larson and
one of her teammates were getting a ride home in
an uber when their driver hit a pole. She posted
about the accident on her Instagram story, saying, quote, decided
to go out with the bang. Everyone is safe. Things
definitely could have been worse end quote. Happy to hear
(01:48):
she's okay and incredible to see she was already back
on the Huskers sideline to open the season. In the
latest Athletes On Magazine covers News, our rugby queen Alona
mar continues her post Olympic domination by being a digital
cover girl for the latest Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue. Other
athletes in this year's edition include Sue Bird, Megan or Pino,
(02:08):
Paralympian Brenna Huckabee, and Cincinnati hooper Jillian Hayes. Some are
in swimsuits, some are glammed up in suits and dresses
to be a part of the sixtieth anniversary Legends photoshoot.
Congrats to all involved. I hope you felt powerful, beautiful,
and inspiring while posing your butts off. And also, I've
never really been a fan of the SI Swimsuit Issue,
(02:30):
especially when it was just models interrupting my weekly sports subscription.
It felt like it definitely wasn't for me, and it
reminded me that maybe the magazine and sports in general
wasn't intended for me. It certainly wasn't inspiring, it certainly
wasn't empowering. Now, I've always loved the ESPN Body Issue
and how it showed how so many different kinds of
(02:50):
bodies can be great, powerful, triumphant, victorious. I found that
one to be a really good excuse for the nudity.
But SI's mag just always reminded me how and women
are reduced to objects. That being said, though, in recent years,
SI has expanded the swimsuit issue to include different body types,
different ages, and lots of athletes. And if badass bitches
(03:12):
like Sue and Pino, Brianna Stewart, Naomi Osaka Crystal Dunn
are doing it and they feel good about it and
they endorse it, then that's what matters, because ultimately, the
difference between empowerment and objectification is who has the power.
There's a fantastic illustrated explainer on that on Everyday Feminism
dot Com and I always come back to it and
send it to people when I'm trying to figure out
(03:34):
where that line is in a certain situation. We'll link
to it in the show notes. You could check it out.
In the meantime, I'll just be looking at the beautiful
photos of Sue and Pino in their suits. We're going
to take a quick break. When we come back, it's
group chat with Elena and Scout. We'll talk about how
the Paralympics make a host city better during the games
and after leaving behind more accessible spaces. Very cool obviously
(03:55):
that this year's Paralympic village is one hundred percent accessible
to meet the needs of every pair of Apple. But
even after the games leave, there are decisions made around
city planning that reflect that the Paralympics were just there.
We also talk about finding their way to adaptive sports
and about cheating in the Paralympics, including folks trying to
fudge their classification status. You can check out a recent
Pablo Tory finds Out episode for a great, super fascinating
(04:18):
deep dive into that. We'll link to that in the
show notes. Stick around. It's time for another group chat
where we take the tea from the text onto the airwaves.
Joining us now. She's a wheelchair basketball, alpine skiing and
para canoe superstar, a five time Paralympian and six time medalists,
(04:39):
three gold, two silver, one bronze. She's the first American
woman with gold medals in the Summer and Winter Paralympic Games.
She now competes in surfing and is aiming to get
that sport into the Paralympics. She won the first ever
all female adaptive surf competition in history and scored the
first ever perfect ten in ISA parasurfing history. Mom to Gunner,
teaching us all some lessons about parenting and her int.
(05:00):
She's past president of the Women's Sports Foundation. She once
gifted me an awesome pair of hearings. It's Elena Nichols ay,
thank you, Sarah, and that brings us to the current
president of the Women's Sports Foundation. She qualified for her
first Paralympic team of twenty sixteen, competing in the long
jop in one hundred meters. She's a two time bronze
medallist at the World Championships a seven time national champion
(05:21):
in one hundred meter. Her book Lucky Girl Lessons on
Overcoming Odds and Building a Limitless Future was released in
September of last year. We were on the Gatorade Women's
Advisory Board together and fun fact, we have the same birthday.
It's Scout Bassett. I were born to shine, That's all
I have to say. Also, is eight year lucky number two.
It is because you're eight eighteen eighty eight and I'm
(05:42):
eight eighteen eighty So we were just we had no
other choice. Okay, Elena, let's start with you, because you
are headed to Paris very soon. You're going to be
a host at the Team USA house. Tell us about
that role and how different it feels going to the
Games to be supportive instead of competing. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, actually I'm headed to Paris very soon, as in
in about three hours, so I'll be flying around noon today.
And I am just so I'm so stoked and honored
that this is the first ever Paralympics that Team USA
House will remain open for the Paralympic Games, so it's
(06:20):
always been available to the Olympic athletes. I gotta say
this games has such a different energy about it. I've
never seen so many Olympians hyping the Paralympics, just like
Katie Ledecky getting on Insta yesterday being like, let's go Paralympics.
So chills. I'm like stoked. And so I get to
(06:41):
be a host at Team USA House, which involves interviews.
I actually am taking a lot of notes from you,
Sarah Spain on m seeing and how to keep this
crowd really hyped. And I don't think it's going to
be hard, So I'm really excited. I am like, you know,
it's interesting to be a former athlete and go and
(07:04):
just feel like, man, I think I still got it,
you know, fighting those feelings of like I want to
I want like go for it, you know, Yeah, but
I feel really content with this position that I'm in
and I'm just so grateful to be involved.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I completely agree with you about the hype around the Paralympics,
whether that's tickets sold, whether that's Olympians telling people to watch,
whether that's the hype around the games that just made
people want more and then say, Okay, awesome that means
Paris in a couple of weeks leading up to now,
when it just feels like the attention is what's been
deserved for years. Scout, you competed in the US Paralympic
(07:41):
Track and Field Trials this year. You came up just
short in your bid to return to the Games. Tell
us about that competition and how you're handling that disappointment
and your excitement about the games all the same.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Well, for one, we knew going into the trials that
there were a lot of hurdles and struggles and challenges,
so it was always going to be a.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Bit of.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
A long shot in some ways. But it's okay.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
I'm actually quite excited because I'm also born to Paris,
but in a completely different role with some partners, and
so I'll be doing like Elena lots of work on
this trip, but really excited to experience the magic of
the games from a different perspective. And I also I'm
(08:29):
really excited about all the energy and momentum that's going
into this and I think it's a really good thing
because we have a Paralympic Games in four years in
la and just to see the success of what the
Olympics has been like for Paris, hopefully the same will
be said for the Paralympics.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned partners. You both could give a
ted talk on sponsorships and partners. You guys are the
queens of getting that shit done, which I love. I
want to go back in time to people who don't know,
tell us how you got into adaptive sports and which
of your many because there are many you got into first.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, right, So I was an athlete. My entire life
started off with t ball, got really serious about fast
pitch softball, my you know, as my career progressed and
into high school when in my senior year, I actually
was out backcountry snowboarding, over rotated a backflip, landed on
what I later learned was about a four foot boulder
(09:30):
underneath the snow, broke my back in three places, became
paralyzed upon impact. I had college scholarships at my fingertips
at that time.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And you know, had to restart, just restart button, figure
it all back out, learn how to sit up, learn
how to dress yourself, learn how to be a human
in a wheelchair, and then think the.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Universe and the source of it all that I came
across wheelchair backsketball because I've been an athlete my entire
life and that didn't change when I became paralyzed, and
so I you know, it was like this beautiful moment
that I came across wheelchair basketball. Was just awestruck. My
job was on the floor that I could see these people,
(10:18):
you know, ten people in wheelchairs playing five on five,
same hoop I, same court length, same three seconds in
the lane. Internationally, like it was so fast and aggressive
and low key violent, and I was like, I want
to do that. I want to play that sport. And
I got into it, and you know what, it opened
(10:38):
up so many doors. I started playing, and you know,
found some opportunities to play collegiately at Arizona, wrapped up
my master's degree at Alabama, played my first Paralympics in
two thousand and eight in bengjingg Like Cinderella's story, it
all came true. Won the gold medal in an undefeated
tournament and couldn't believe my life. Right, Like it was
(11:03):
eight years prior to that that I became paralyzed and
thought my athletic career was over. A little did I
know it was like just beginning and going to be
better than ever. So I went on to go to
four more Games and became the first female to win
golden the summer and winter, and wow, what a trip.
It was such a beautiful moment. But I will say
(11:24):
to your point, Sarah, there wasn't this hype around Paralympics.
And when I won my second gold medal at the
twenty ten Games in alpine skiing, you couldn't watch that
on TV. You had to like watch the forty five
minutes special after the games were over and hopefully catch
some highlights, you know. And so it's just been such
(11:47):
a cool experience to be a part of the growth
that's happened, and then also just hype it as a
former athlete.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
Now you're a current athlete, your current athlete athlete, I
am sure all we're an athlete potentially former paralympian, although
I'm not counting you out on surfing or something else
if you get it in there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
And also we say forever athlete around here instead of former.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
We say I love that forever athlete. That's the truth. Actually,
thank you for that. Yes, And once a paralympian, always a.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Parent, that's right. That's right, Scout.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
How about you, Gosh.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I got into I mean a bit of a long story,
but I lost my leg when I was involved in
a chemical burn as a young infant and.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Was placing an orphanage.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
And I came to the US their adoption at seven
years old. And I think as somebody who came to
America being an outsider, growing the foreigner, growing up in
a community where there wasn't a lot of people that
looks like me. I was looking for an outlet, somewhere
to go to, like kind of geo sense of belonging.
(13:02):
And I've always been active as a kid, and so
just got involved in sports pretty much right away when
I came here. It was about second grade and then,
but it was such a long journey. I didn't start
running until I was fourteen years old. That was the
first time I ever got a running prosthetic, and then
(13:23):
I didn't know because it was a different time. I
didn't know about the Paralympics until I was a sophomore
in college at UCLA.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
And because, like Elena said, it wasn't on TV.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
You didn't see Paralympic athletes in marketing campaigns or ads
or on the cover anything, and so I didn't really
even know that it was such a thing and found
out my sophomore year of college, and you could say
the rest is history, but it's been just an incredible journey.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
What's incredible, too, is to get your first running prosthetic
at fourteen because you were injured and lost your life
as an infant. That means you literally didn't run until
you're Fourtine, Not, I didn't join the track team, Yes not,
I didn't try to do it competitively, but you literally didn't.
So it's incredible that to then go on and have
the success that you've had in track and field, that's
(14:14):
so bad ass. So this year there's a campaign featuring
Paralympic competitors and they're saying, I won't be participating in
Paris dot dot dot, I'll be competing. So why is
that distinction so important, Elena.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, for the exact reason that we want to draw
that hard line in the sand, that we want everybody
to know that as Paralympic athletes, there is almost nothing
that can stop us from wanting to get that gold,
just like every other Olympic athlete, Like they're incredible. These
(14:49):
athletes are training with less function in their body, just
as hard I trained at the Olympic Training Center. I
work those same hours in those same gem lifting the
same weight with less of my body. And we are
just so passionate as a Paralympic movement to help people
know like this isn't rainbows and butterflies, this is gold medal,
(15:13):
this is everything's on the line, this is metal count
and we want that just as bad as an Olympic athlete.
And you know, I love that campaign. It threw some
people off. People are like, wait, yeah, competing, you know
on the first slide, Yeah, it's time.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I'm not I'm not participating dot dot dot what Oh
my god, I'm competing? Got them you had me in
the first half. Yeah, you know, Scout, it's it's it's
a even more clarity to the very basics, which is
that I think some people here Paralympics and they even
think Special Olympics like they really do not make a
(15:48):
distinction between those events, and the difference is so vast.
They're both wonderful in their own right, but connecting the
Paralympics to the Olympics and having it be essentially the
exact same thing, just with a active sports is so
important to give it the legitimacy and to talk about
it like every other sport. How have you found that
you have embraced your role as both a competitor but
(16:11):
also an ambassador to try to teach people that there's
the same desire, the same work ethic, the same competition there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Well, first I want to say I understand why people
have incorrectly thought that the Paralympics was the Special Olympics.
I mean, for one, this is something that I think
is changing and improving, but also a tremendous area of work.
Is the Special Olympics is a multi billion dollar event
(16:43):
and their events and sports are televised on linear TV.
They have mega mega sponsorships, and when you think about
the Paralympics in contrast, that hasn't necessarily been the case.
And when people have had more exposure.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
To something else that's all they know.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
And so I think the Paralympics still has some work
in terms of just their own marketing, but also really
bringing it to a massive global audience.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
In the way that Special Olympics has.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
But it has really been interesting to make that distinction
and to educate people, and also to do in a
way that doesn't you know, lesson what the Special Olympics
that is, or the rules or even those athletes. And
so it's a hard place for sure. And I think
something that would also help the Paralympics is, you know,
(17:36):
recently I've had some people saying I just wish it
wasn't such a long gap in between, because if you
start watching the Olympics and you follow all the way
through the end of the Paralympics, that is a six
week window, you know, is a very long time that
you're asking people to be engaged, to be tuned in
to follow, and so anyways, you know, I think there's
(18:01):
ways to help really bring the Paralympics to, you know,
the level of what the Olympics are.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, we talked about that a bit on the show.
Because there are the obvious just logistics of turning over events, spaces,
making spaces adaptive, the fact that technically the Paralympics is
a different logo than the Olympics, so the spaces have
to be sort of like designed differently. But there are
probably some ways to start that process to make that
gap shorter, or to find ways to be more inclusive
(18:28):
of doing some of them. At the same time, even
the experts will get on it. But yeah, I agree,
there is this part of me that's like, oh, I
wanted to just the very next day start watching Although
I understand some of the logistical issues Elena. During the Paralympics,
a lot of people use the word inspirational. It's true,
it's an inevitability, but that word isn't always a favorite
(18:49):
for the parasports community. What's your relationship with the word inspirational?
Great question.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I've actually grown and involved with that with that word.
At first, on set with that word as a newly
disabled person, it felt so condescending and pagonizing, and yeah,
(19:16):
I was overcoming some real hardship, some real adversity, but
it just didn't feel right. And so as I evolved,
you know, on my own journey, I really have grown
to embrace it as something that has also been an
(19:38):
experience for me, right, I have been inspired by athletes
with disabilities as well, and so for me it's changed
because I really am taking it from my own personal
perspective and thinking, well, you know the woman from Iran
(19:58):
that is a power lifter that had to put gallon
buckets of sand on the bar to train it home.
Like the grit and the resilience and the just sheer determination,
I'm inspired by that. Yeah, And so it feels like
it in context. It's such a great word, and it
(20:20):
has to be in the right context. Right If you're
throwing it out there like some kind of patronizing like
you're so inspiring because you're at the grocery store, that.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Doesn't feel right, right, it doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
But look at what I If I'm going seventy miles
per hour down a mountain as a skiingser with a disability,
that's inspiring. And I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, I mean, I'm terrified of surfing. I'm terrified of
surfing fair and you're doing it without control of your
lower body. You're putting yourself out in the waves depending
on the rest of your body and your training and
of course your handlers. On the people there, but like,
there is so much inspiration to be gained from people
(21:03):
who are looking in the face of challenges or any
kind of adversity and saying I'm going to do it anyway,
because there are a lot of us. I hope that's
not me. I hope I'm putting myself out there in
plenty of ways, but there are people who are unwilling
to try for fear of failure and just seeing anyone.
Not to mention people who have already been handed some
difficulties doing it is it is, it's inspirational, but it
(21:25):
does need to be multi dimensional and multifaceted, and the
way that we describe Paralympians and not just be about
you're doing it. You know, it's so much more than
that scout.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
You know.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
These recent Olympics, we talked a lot about gender equal
Olympics because an equal number of male and female competitors
were able to qualify for the first time. We kind
of got into, well, that doesn't necessarily mean they were
gender equal entirely, but still good steps forward. On the
Paralympics side, the number of female competitors is way behind,
and Paris just nineteen hundred and eighty three of the
(21:57):
athletes are expected to be women only. Why do you
think the Paralympics are lagging behind in that? Is it
just as simple as adding more spots or or what
do we need to do?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
That number is true, but also I would say it's
even far worse or staggering numbers in the winter Proalymic
in terms of female participation or female events and.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Athletes.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I seeing part of it is yes, from IPC they say, well,
we can't add more events or sports or for women
because there's not enough of you or there's not enough
of you competing. And so certainly I think that's part
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
But also.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I think still as a society we still have ways
to go in terms of like how we portray women
with disabilities and in sport. And what I mean by
that is like so often I see like a campaign
with a male ass with the disability or just men
with disabilities in general, whether it's in entertainment or especially
(23:06):
in entertainment, and they're casted in these roles of being
very heroic and courageous and honorable, and we don't always
attach those same adjectives to women, and the focus really
I think for women largely has been that the disability
(23:26):
aspect or the imperfection, the deficiency, and I think it's changing.
But when we are able to change that narrative, then
young girls growing up with disabilities will see, Okay, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
What I aspire to be or want to be.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And I think I mean, Elena is such a tremendous
role model. There's so many great examples, but I think
all largely has to do with our media and portrayal
of how.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
We see women with disabilities.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, and I think just society in general. I think
probably the norm is to look at a man who
either was born with or acquires a disability and say,
here's how we get you back your confidence, you're belonging
your community. It's sports because you're a guy and men
like sports. Yeah, and with women, there isn't that immediacy
of like, this is where you should go and find
this love and joy and participation which is universal regardless
(24:16):
of ability. Right, It's still that hurdle we have to
get past of believing that men are just the norm
for sports and women are just like trying it or
getting into it. Even though it's been literally centuries of
us being like we want to play give us some resources.
You know, Elena, one of the things that I've loved
talking to you about and that you so opened my
eyes on, was what a Paralympics can do for the
(24:39):
city that hosts it. We talk a lot every time
the Olympic cycle comes around about empty stadiums, displacement of people,
other negative outcomes that sometimes result from the Olympics coming
to town. But your perspective on post Paralympics towns is incredible.
Can you share a little that.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, absolutely well, And I do want to just add
Scout said, I'm such a great role model. I was
feeding my kid McDonald's the other day and guess who's
in the happy meal. Guess who I open up and
see on this beautiful poster.
Speaker 6 (25:15):
Oh, Scout bass in a battie And.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
I couldn't have been more proud. So thank you Scout
for doing what you do. And to comment on how
Paralympics changed the towns and the cities that they're held in.
You know, I'll never forget going to Beijing and that
was my first Games and seeing how there had just
(25:41):
been an earthquake, a devastating earthquake in one of the
nearby counts. Of Beijing, and one of the young girls
that had lost her leg in that earthquake was actually
performing at the opening ceremony of the Paralympics as a
ballerina with one leg, and around that everybody in that
(26:01):
stadium saw, Look, your life isn't over when you have
a disability. This is this is so doable. Let's work
with that, let's create, let's let's get more curious about
how we can integrate people with disabilities. And after, you know,
we were we were able to go onto the Great
Wall of China while we were there, and I guarantee
(26:23):
nobody in a wheelchair had really been on there. They
had adapted that, and all of the people saw it.
And you know, I just know that on a micro
and a macro level, this that the in the tone changes, right,
It's it's like, let's let's figure this out. We're not
shunning people with disabilities anymore. We're creating more ramps, We're
(26:47):
creating accessible spaces because that makes sense now that the
Paralympics has been healthier, that that just that's just what
we need to do. So it really requires the host
city to level up. And I love that about it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, just city planning. It requires you to think about it,
and once you've thought about it, the idea of going
back and not making somewhere accessible is sort of unthinkable.
And so when it gets to somewhere, how that changes
it is just really cool. I'm very excited to see
what happens in Los Angeles as a result of hosting
the Games in twenty twenty eight. That's going to be
pretty incredible. We're kind of running out of time here,
(27:22):
but I had one last thing I wanted to talk
to you about. My friend Pablo Torre has a great podcast,
and he just did a deep dive into cheating and
Paralympics and some of it's kind of mind blowing and
you're kind of surprised to hear about it, and then
you remember, well, duh, there's money to be made, there's
sponsorships to be earned. If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying.
That's a whole sports phrase for a reason. It's sports
you want to win. But some of it's cheating, like doping,
(27:45):
and some of it's specific to like trying to fib
your classification, where you try to get into a class
that you may not actually belong in order to compete
differently Scout, have you had experience with this or do
you have thoughts on how to curtail it?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
First of all, I would say that form of cheating
is much more it's following the more common form in
Paralympics than the traditional you know form that people know
is through you know, ped use or something like that. Yes,
it's definitely. I've seen it with my own eyes. A
(28:21):
wheelchair athlete competing in a throwing seeded throwing event in
UH track and field video evidence of that person getting
out of their chair and walking into the elevator. They
were like, obviously not in Paralympics anymore once that was shown.
But like, it is really hard to to say what
(28:44):
the answer should be. I think one of it should
be that there just needs to be more medical evidence
and documentation of you know, perhaps a condition or or whatnot,
because so often, I know, when I got classified, I
was kind of a little shocked at like how little
(29:07):
support you know, I needed to provide in terms of
like the actual amputation was, what the level was like.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
They just looked at me and they were like, oh,
she wears a knee.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
And so.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
But meanwhile, we have girls in our class that actually
have their full knee joint and a little bit of
a TiVo.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
So it's like, you know, I think that's part of it.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
But also like this is on the Paralympic side also
where the classifiers probably need to have a little bit
more training and experience and more knowledge of And I
don't expect these people to be experts, right, like if
you don't live with the disability or you aren't any amputee,
like do you.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Even know what you're looking for?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And a lot of these classifiers are not right, And
so I think there's a lot of work to be done.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Absolutely, I want to end on a more positive note
than that. So, Elena, I was looking at your resume
two thousand and eight, gold in basketball, twenty ten, two
golds of silver and a bronze, and skiing twenty twelve,
fourth place in basketball twenty fourteen, silver and downhill twenty sixteen.
You made your debut in para canoe. Why not just
(30:20):
throw a whole other sport in there, that's fun. Do
you have a standout memory? Do you have a best
memory from all of your Paralympics?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
What an honor just to be there at the games.
But less than one percent of athletes get to metal
and then there's me that just feels I mean, how
did I get to make history and be the first woman? Right?
That just takes a fair amount of fortune. And Yeah,
(30:47):
my favorite memory I always default too is, you know,
Beijing was a Cinderella story and some of the hardest
work I've ever done. I prepared for five years. I
trained with the best women in the world, and we
all came together and won that despite so many things
that we had to overcome, including one of our coaching
(31:10):
positions had It was like adversity was coming out of anyways.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
We won that goal.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
That was memorable. But you know, whenever you see these
athletes on the podium and there's tears that are falling
and you think it's about the medal, it's usually more
personal than that. And in twenty ten, I lost my
brother just about six months before the Games, and the
(31:39):
sheer like heartbreak I had to work with to continue
to train, and the amount of times I had to
remind myself he would have wanted this. He was your
biggest fan. Keep going When I was crying in my
goggles and just wanted to wait, nothing mattered, Nothing mattered,
I lost a sibling, you know, and then to keep
(32:02):
going in the face of all of that, and then
to feel so favored, right, I felt just like so blessed,
like something was working for me out there. And I
came down and I won that first medal in twenty ten,
and honestly can't remember a second of it.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
I was crying before it came down.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I saw my name on that JumboTron, and God, the
tears were spiritual. My brother was there, and I just
felt like that was the otherworldly for me, and I'll
never forget that, and I know he was there, So yeah,
really powerful.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You have been through a lot, girl, and anybody who
follows you and knows your story understands how much of
your wisdom comes from those losses, losing your dad and
your brother and all the things, and it's turned you
into quite a powerful person. You've really spun it all
into some serious gold. So that's why I follow you.
Oh no, pun intended gold. Okay, we have to go.
(32:58):
We can't wait to watch the coverage, we can't wait
to get fired up about the Paralympics. And we're so
grateful for your perspective.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Thanks, ladies, Love you, Sarah, thank you, Thank you so
much for having us.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Everybody followed them. We're going to put their handles so
you can keep learning from their wisdom, especially Elena and
that baby Gunner. Gosh darn it, he is cute. We
got to take another break. When we come back, we
get technical and tactical with our punctuation and nicknames. It's
next Welcome back, Orange Slices. A few shows ago, we
(33:35):
told you about what appears to be a for the
love of the Game style romance between the Las Vegas
Aces Asia Wilson and the Miami Heats Bam at a bio.
They still haven't hard launched it, but that didn't stop
us from asking you for a celebrity nickname, a ship name,
if you will. We only got a few, but they
were solid. Marjorie H. Seventy nine said ja bam obviously,
(33:58):
which just makes me laugh. I don't know what, but jabam.
It's good. The winner, though. An answer that positively tickled
this English major and grammar lover was from eighty Joseph,
who said, in the spirit of the interaro bang, might
I suggest apostre bam so in case you don't know,
(34:18):
and intaro bang is a non standard punctuation mark meaning
like not official, but it's still used. It looks like
an exclamation point on top of a question mark. It's
the one you'd most often use right after you said
what the fuck. So anyway, we got the apostrophe in
Asia's name. We got bam apostra bam. Oh, it's so good.
It's so good speaking of Asia. By the way, no
(34:40):
WNBA games tonight, But a quick thought on the Aces,
because they're making headlines for the wrong reasons, and they
were a topic on a whole bunch of the debate
shows yesterday, so here's the context for that. On Tuesday,
Asia scored forty two points, but the ACE is lost
to the Dallas Wings ninety three ninety Wilson's forty two
points for the most by a player in a single
game so far this season, but her heroic weren't enough,
(35:00):
which has been a theme at times for these Aces,
and with the l they're now fifth in the WNBA standings.
They're two and four since the Olympic break, and of
course Asia said, that's all that matters. Quote, we didn't
get the win, so none of this matters. Of course,
we're going to talk about her incredible performance, but also
how her incredible performances are sometimes lost in losses for
(35:21):
the Aces, and some folks are confident that they'll figure
it out. They point to their record after Chelsea Gray
came back as the only thing that matters. You know,
once Chelsea Gray was back from injury, they've been mostly
a winning team. They just needs more time to catch
up in the standings. But others are looking at a
Liberty team that looks pretty much unbeatable and teams in
the Sun and Links that can also get a w
on any given night, and wondering if we actually need
(35:43):
to start worrying about the Aces and time running out
for them to fix things, especially their defensive woes. And
you can count me in the latter because Asia's been unstoppable.
But the Aces for me are not a favorite to
three p. They have some serious issues to fix before
the postseason, and I'm starting to wonder where I can
even slop them in the top of the league. All
season long, I've sort of felt like they're going to
(36:05):
figure it out, and now I'm not so sure. What
do you guys think. We love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game. Every day too,
So here's our good gameplay of the day. First, we'll
ask you on social how you feel about the Aces.
What's your level of confidence percentage of confidence that the
Aces will win another title? At Sarah Spain on Twitter
at Spain two three two three on Insta. You can
(36:26):
also hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork
dot com or leave us a voicemail eight seven two
two o four fifty seventy. And of course, we also
want you to watch the Paralympics and send us your questions.
Are you confused about a classification? Are you trying to
figure out why they're more than a dozen hundred meter finals?
We want to hear from you, We want to help you,
We want to put Alex to work. So hit us
(36:46):
up with those questions, and don't forget to subscribe, rate
and review. It's easy. Watch corn Sweat rating what the
out of five stars review Corn Sweat? Huh? First, I'm
hearing of this, but apparently we're cooking our planets so bad.
We don't just get regular swamp ass late summer Midwest heat.
(37:09):
Now our favorite rods of cernely goodness are lathering up
to and they're making our swamp asses swampier because one
acre of corn can release up to three thousand to
four thousand gallons of water a day via what's called
avapple transpiration aka corn sweat. It's the release of moisture
from maturing corn plants into the air well. This mature
(37:32):
plan over here doesn't need any help sweat, and so
stay in your lane. Corn my mouth. Now it's your turn,
rate and review. Thanks for listening, slices, See you tomorrow.
Good Game, Alena, Good Game, Scout, Huge Cheaters, Yes again
and forever. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart
(37:53):
women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,
our producers are Alex Azzi and Misha Jones. Our executive
producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder.
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez and
(38:15):
Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Host
Sarah Spain
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