July 31, 2024 • 34 mins
Ahead of their Olympic debut, 1500-meter runner Nikki Hiltz joins Sarah to talk about how their TikTok algorithm knew their identity before they did, how they’ve prioritized their mental health, what being nonbinary and trans means to them and trying to meet people in the middle. Plus, a show correction sends Sarah into timeout.
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Leave us a voicemail about your favorite memory of watching the Olympics as a kid – we may even play it on the show! 872-204-5070
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Email us your final suggestions for what we should call our listeners - goodgame@wondermedianetwork.com
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Watch the U.S. rugby team win bronze on a last-second run here
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Watch the incredible save and transition goal from Team USA field hockey here
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A few Olympic events to watch today:
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7:10am ET: BMX Freestyle Final
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7:15am ET: USA Field Hockey vs. Australia
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9:00am ET: Beach Volleyball – Hughes/Cheng vs. France
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11:00am ET: USA Volleyball vs. Serbia
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12:30pm ET: USA Water Polo vs. Italy
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1:00pm ET: USA Soccer vs. Australia
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2:30pm ET: Swimming Finals (including the 1500m Free)
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Follow Sarah on social! X: @SarahSpain Instagram: @Spain2323
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Follow producer Misha Jones! X: @mishthejrnalist Instagram: @mishthejrnalist TikTok: @mishthejrnalist
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Follow producer Alex Azzi! X: @ByAlexAzzi
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're putting
ourselves in time out for saying rugby player alone of
Mar's name wrong this whole time. Who the hell is
Alana Mayor? Come on, Spain, you're better than that, all right,
I'm a head out.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Uh, Sarah, you still kind of got to host the show?
Oh shit, right? All right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
On today's show, we're gonna chat with American runner Nikki
Hilts about breaking the US Olympic Trials meet record in
the fifteen hundred, qualifying for Paris and educating and inspiring
fans along the way, plus more medals for Tmusa, we
take a walk down memory Lane, and more. It's all
coming up after the break. We're back, and here's what
(00:44):
you need to know today. First things First, Alone o Mar,
My apologies to our queen. It turns out I needed
to stop obsessively watching her instagrams and start obsessively watching
her games instead, you know, so i'd know how to
say her damn name right, and also.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So I could watch them win a bronze medal. That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yesterday, Team USA rugby little slip up fell to New
Zealand in their semi final matchup twenty four to twelve,
but they bounced back in the bronze medal match later
in the day and defeated Australia fourteen to twelve on
a last second run by Alex Cedric with no time remaining.
If you didn't see it, you have to look it up.
That's the best finish and the first medal ever for
(01:29):
USA and rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
How about them Ruggers?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And you know what, I saw someone say that the
rugby women were having their ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Ers moment in these games.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I do think that a lot of kids are
probably watching and searching how and where to play and
kind of falling in love with rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So what a legacy way to go, ladies.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And I think someone needs to book Alona on every
late night show or just give her her own show.
In gymnastics, Simone Biles and Team USA are golden again. Biles,
Jordan Chiles, Sunny Lee, Jade Care and sixteen year old
Hesley Rivera, who competed in qualifying but not in the final,
finished with a total score of one hundred and seventy
one point twenty nine to six. That's almost six points
(02:10):
clear of second place Italy. Simone earns her eighth Olympic medal,
passing Shannon Miller for the most all time by a
US gymnast, and her fifth gold ties a US record
set by Anton Hayda way back in nineteen oh four. Also,
according to NBC Sports, Nick sa Cardi, Ali Raisman was
the oldest US female gymnast to win Olympic gold at
(02:30):
twenty two, but now Simone, Jade and Jordan all surpassed that.
We love to see these ladies staying in the sport
longer and definitely competing with more joy. There's been this
real culture change in the sport in the last couple
of years, and that's been just incredible to see. Brazil's
Rebecca Andrages all around score was just zero point three
sixty six behind Simone Biles on the night. Now, Biles
(02:52):
didn't do her incredible Yurchenko double pike vault, that crazy
vault we keep seeing in this team event, so she
still got that trick up or sleeve heading into the
individual all around. On Thursday, I mentioned Italy got silver.
That's huge. They win an Olympic team medal for the
first time in ninety six years, and with the bronze
Brazil wins its first ever medal in the team event
(03:14):
and finally shout out to Laurie Hernandez on the call.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
She's such a joy to listen to. She's so human too.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
We get the gasps and the giggles alongside all the insights.
Just perfection And if you didn't know the story, she
was a real gold medalist. She failed to make the
Tokyo Olympic team, but went anyway as a commentator for NBC,
making the best of a disappointing situation and jump starting
her career as a broadcaster. And she's been great, so
an impressive pivot, even for a world class gymnast. In swimming,
(03:42):
the fifteen hundred meter freestyle final is today at three
pm Eastern.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
A little context here.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This is just the second Olympics that women have been
allowed to swim the fifteen hundred meter. Until Tokyo, they
were stuck at eight hundred meters even though the men
have been swimming the fifteen hundred since nineteen oh eight.
You heard that right, And this is good news for
American Katie Ladeki because she's the favorite, and understandably so.
She has not lost a race in this event in
(04:07):
fourteen years and in the qualifier Ladeki beat the next
closest swimmer by almost twenty whole seconds.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's some goat shit on the pitch.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
USA Soccer already punched his ticket to the knockout stage,
but they close out group play today against Australia at
one pm Eastern Tierna Davidson will miss this game. She
suffered a knee contusion against Germany forward Jaden Shaw, who
missed the first two games due to a lingering lower
leg injury, will not be available either. In tennis, Coco
Goff suffered a surprising loss to Donna Vekich of Croatia
(04:39):
yesterday and it was deja.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Vu in a bad way.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Goff found herself fighting a similar call to the one
made by an official in the French Open in June,
and on the same court. Even so, there was a
return volli from Bekich hit near the baseline and a
line judge called it out. Because of the call, GoF
didn't keep the ball in play, but then the chair
umpire decided that Beckicch's shot did lit and in bounds
and gave her the point. Goff pleaded her case, saying
(05:03):
that the ball was called out before she hit it
and that she had a right to finish or swing
without being impeded by the call. But with no video
review available, the ump stood firm and Veckich was given
the point. For what it's worth, the call happened after
Gough was already behind, but it's still hard to measure
how a moment like that can affect a competitor's mindset.
So no singles medal for Coco, but she still got
(05:24):
a shot at medaling in women's doubles and mixed doubles.
The BMX Freestyle finals are today. Americans Hannah Roberts and
Paris Benegas will take to the course at seven ten
am Eastern on USA Network.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Roberts is a five time.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
World champion and will look to improve on the silver
medal she earned in the Olympic debut of BMX freestyle
three years ago. Plus there's plenty more to follow on
today's Olympic slate. Team USA Field Hockey taken on Australia
today at seven to fifteen am Eastern, looking for their
first win after opening with a loss to Argentina and
a drug against Spain.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Now, if you haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It, go watch this incredible play from that tie with Spain.
We're even going to link to it in our show notes.
Just a minute into the game, one of Spain's players
took a point blank shot on goal and it slipped
past the US keeper Kelsey Bing, but unclum and certified
badass Ashley Hoffman saved the day with a clutch defensive
save and it ended up leading to an incredible transition play.
(06:19):
Ten seconds later, Penn State's Fia Gladio found the back
of the net. Such a cool play. Even if you
don't understand bioldagi, even if you're still figuring out the rules,
go watch that and get hyped for USA Australia. Today
in indoor volleyball, USA plays Serbia and Pool A play
at eleven am Eastern. In beach volleyball, reigning world champs
Sarah Hughes and Kelly Chang of the US faced host
(06:41):
country France at nine am Eastern. That's streaming on Peacock.
They opened their Olympics with a two to zero win
over Checchia, and they can confirm a spot in the
round of sixteen with another pool see win today in
three x three basketball. After opening their Olympic campaign, With
the loss to Germany, the US team looked to rebound
against Azerbaijan at three point thirty pm. Easterns have never
played each other at a World Championships or an Olympic Games,
(07:03):
and Azerbaijan's roster sports a name familiar to many WNBA fans.
Las Vegas Aces guard Tiffany Hayes. Hayes became a naturalized
Azerbaijani citizen in twenty fifteen and will make her Olympic debut.
This is also Azerbaijan's first three x three appearance at
the Olympics. In honor of today's guest, the amazing Nicky Hilt,
(07:24):
who is a proud representative for the LGBTQIA plus community,
I want to shout out a great statistic from this
year's Olympic Games. Yep, that means it's time for good game,
good game, fact you. According to outsports dot Com, the
Paris Olympics have an all time record of one hundred
and ninety three openly lgbtqia plus athletes competing gay perie. Indeed,
(07:46):
also I want to shout out the Pride House, which
debuted at the twenty ten Olympics and this year is
located on a boat.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Floating down the Senne River.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The Pride House acts as a hub for the queer
community during the competition, and this year there's even a
pop up Pride House where teams of volunteers will visit
various venues, meet with the public, and raise awareness of
the LGBTQIA plus issues in sport.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We love it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, we got to take a quick break, but when
we come back, we'll hear from Nicky Hilts.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Joining us today.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Nicki Hilts, the American record holder in the mile, the
two time reigning US outdoor fifteen hundred meter champion. At
the US Olympic Track Trials last month, Hilt's clock the
second fastest time ever recorded by an American in the
women's fifteen hundred meter race. Their time of three minutes
and fifty five point thirty three seconds was a personal
best and a meet record. They competed collegiately for Oregon
(08:37):
in Arkansas. They just might have more sunglasses than shoes
and fun fact, Hilts is a professional runner and they
can't even beat their own girlfriend in the steeplechase.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Welcome Nicki Hilts.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Very amazing intro. Thank you so much, I'm so excited
to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Shout out to your girlfriend. I'm McGee.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
She's a steeplechaser. Hence the dig at you. I won't
even ask you if you think you could. You could
beat her if you trained hard enough, because I'm not
starting any beef. I'm not starting any beef in the household.
First of all, congrats on the Olympic berth. That's so
exciting and what an incredible time at the trials. You're
now the second fastest American in the fifteen hundred. The
(09:17):
top eight finishers in that trials race all set personal best.
That is a fast, fast race. The Olympics are such
a lifelong dream for so many athletes. I'm wondering how
that moment of crossing the finish line and knowing that
you're headed to the Games, how did that compare to
your expectations or maybe lifelong dreams about it.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, it was definitely just an amazing moment. I think
just a lot of emotions at once. I think one
was definitely joy, another was like relief because there's just
so much pressure on the trials, and then the third,
I would say, would be like shock, Like I knew
going into that race. You know, top three get an
Olympic berth and I knew I could be third, Like
(10:00):
that was something I was very confident in. But I'm
a competitor and I wanted to win, and like I
thought that I could, but obviously there was some doubt too,
because you know, Ellie Saint Pierre had had a PR
at the time that was four seconds better than mine.
So yeah, I mean I did believe deep down, but
like actually when it was happening and breaking the tape,
I was like, I can't believe I'm winning this right now,
(10:23):
Like what's going on? So yeah, just a lot of emotions.
And then you add on the fact that yet like, yes,
this race means a lot in that now I can
finally call myself an Olympian, And yeah, I think it's
just surreal because it's a goal I've had, I don't know,
probably ever since like two thousand and four, two thousand
and eight, just tuning into those Olympics as a kid. Uh.
I think I just was watching it and I was like,
(10:44):
I want to be there someday, and so it's just
crazy to, yeah, have a childhood dream just come true
like that.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
After you qualified for the Olympics. You said this race
is bigger than just me. Can you explain what you meant?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the past few years,
you know, I've been very vocal and out about my
gender identity and sexuality, and so yeah, I wanted to
run this race for my community, and I just feel
when I stand on the start line, I just feel
so overwhelmed with love and support, and I think it
allows me to run really free because I know, no
matter what the result, or whether I'm first or last
(11:19):
in this race, I'm going to be loved and supported.
And so that is just such a gift that I
feel like I've gotten from the queer community, and so
I yeah, I wanted to give it back and just
think them in any way I could, And so yeah,
I feel like dedicating that race to them was like
my wife's just saying thank you for allowing me to
run so free.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So cool.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I want to give our listeners the correct context and
information for your gender identity and your sexuality. You're getting
a lot of incredible coverage about it, but a lot
of people still sort of misunderstand this or just don't
have the knowledge, haven't really talked about or read enough
about the differences between sex and gender and gender identity,
and especially in the sports world, that's so binary.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So let's sort of level set.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
On the International Transgender Day of Visibility of twenty twenty one,
you announce on Instagram that you're transgender and non binary.
So can you tell us what transgender and non binary
mean to you?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think people get confused. Yeah,
I'm non binary, but I use the term trans non
binary because I believe that being non binary is underneath
the trans umbrella. But I think people see the word
trans and automatically think, like, Okay, were you assigned female
at birth? And are you now you know, a transman
(12:31):
or vice versa, where you assigned male at birth and
you already trans woman? Like I think people are still
in that very binary headspace. And so yeah, to me,
like non binary means like just gender fluid and like
my my gender is it's a spectrum, like I've never
really identified fully with like girl and then vice versa,
never fully with boy either, and it's just somewhere in between.
(12:54):
And I didn't have context for what that meant until
I was a little bit older, you know. I think
it was the pandemic. Honestly, in twenty twenty, when you
know I got TikTok and my for you page, knew
I was trans before I did. It was it was
just that I saw them. The algorithms are too good,
and so I started seeing all this non binary representation
(13:15):
literally on my for you page and I was like,
oh my god, this is me. This is what I've
felt my entire life. And so yeah, and then a
year later, you know, on trans Day Visibility, I told
the you know, important people in my life and people,
you know, my partner and training partner and coach at
the time had started using d them pronouns for me.
But I was like, I think it's time to tell
(13:35):
the world. And this is something I kind of had
to come out about, because if you want people to
affirm you and your gender, you have to let them
know that you use the them pronounce you know. So
it was kind of, yeah, that was my journey, But
what was the question defined? But not okay?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think, you.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Know, as a straight SIS woman who actually covers a
lot of women's sports and actually gets into a lot
of issues around gender identity and sexuality. The result of
covering a lot of women's sports where the isms are
always at play. I just find so many people haven't
ever read or thought about it, so for them, they
don't understand well enough to get what you just articulated,
which is this idea of like, yes, sometimes I wake
(14:14):
up and I'm a dude's dude and sometimes I wake
up and I'm a.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Girl's girl, and it can be both.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And now we see so many more representations of that,
and we have the language for it, and that's allowing
so many people to understand the experiences of others.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And I think it's sport.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It's particularly useful because unfortunately we do have these incredibly
gender binary sets that we are having to fit people into,
even if they don't feel like they fit in. And
I think some people are misunderstanding because they don't know enough,
and some people are being intentionally obtuse or even cruel.
You got a social media comment after winning at the trials.
(14:48):
Someone accused you of being quote a mediocre man stealing
a woman's place on the Olympic team. Your response and
correction were both perfect and hilarious. But how do you
explain to folks who don't understand what it means to
be non binary trans and competing in women's events.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I mean, I'm thinking back to the just the mediocre
man thing, and I actually wish I would have said
something like I feel like a mediocre man couldn't even
run three fifty five. But I'm not giving like a
lot of credit, like for men are.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Not winning the Olympic trials.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Come on, Yeah, exactly, but no, it's it's exactly like
you said, like some people are being ignorant on purpose,
and some people genuinely just have never heard what, don't
know what non binary means or and so yeah, I
do feel like I want to take my platform like
at times to educate. And I feel like the really
beautiful thing that's happened within the past three years is
(15:38):
that people have started to do it for me, like
you know, on my Instagram or whatever, Like someone will
be a comment like that's a dude or whatever it is,
and then you'll see at least five responses just from
my following or you know people who who yeah, like
are like, get out of here. You don't even know
what you're talking about, like he was a signed female birth.
Like people do it for me now, which I think
(15:58):
is really beautiful. And but yeah, no, they're always I
think there's always opportunities to like educate, and like obviously
there's people who are just like assholes and ignorant and
like I'm maybe never gonna change their hearts and minds,
but like the people that I don't know. I got
a really beautiful message the other day from someone who
was like, you know, my liberal grandpa was watching the
(16:19):
trials and I was like cheering for you and using
day them pronouns, and he was like like, why are
you using that? Like what do you mean they like
there's only one person, And she was like it was
a really beautiful moment where I got to like educate
him and he was like, oh, that's really cool, Like
I didn't know that, and like so just things like that,
I just really like fill my heart and like it's
not just this one. Like if you don't get it,
(16:41):
get out. I don't want to ever create that space.
I think in order to create change, you kind of
have to find those people in the middle and and
do your best to educate, and then if they don't
want to know, it's like okay, well then I don't care.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I did my best. I tried. Yeah,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Chris moser Is is a transman in men's events and
talks a lot about how he almost has the privilege
of people not caring because they don't think that athletes
like him exist, and they also somehow think, well, he's
at a disadvantage being you know, assigned female at birth
and competing in the men's events. You also get some
(17:17):
accusations of abusing some sort of privilege of identifying as
trans and non binary but competing against women.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
How do you respond to that?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
It's usually not being said in good faith or curiosity,
but more so in a way to sort of continue
to demonize trans athletes.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just I know
my truth and like that's enough for me. Sometimes, Like
I know that i'm you know, I'm not taking any HRT,
Like I'm not on hormone replacement therapy, Like I'm not
on testosterone. Like I know that I'm doing it fair
and I'm or whatever, I'm following the rules, like whatever
you want to call it. And I I don't know,
(17:55):
I think that's enough for me. It's like, and also
I've nothing that anyone can say is anything that is
nothing's new. I've heard it all. I've seen it all.
Nothing's gonna catch me by surprise anymore. And like, yeah,
I also just think that I'm like I just have
a really good sports system around me, like my partner,
my coaches, my training partners, like my therapists, like my family,
(18:17):
Like I just have such a like it's a pretty
small team, but it's like my people, and like I
know that, Like nothing's going to penetrate that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, does I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, you're damned if you do, damned
if you don't. So, like, if you're trying to please
everybody or fix the opinions of people that you don't
even know that aren't saying them with you know, good intent,
you'll spend a lot of time, you know, trying to
talk to people that don't deserve any energy your time.
I want to talk personal best because the Olympic Trials
is a really good time to have one, and you
(18:51):
have had many of them of late. In fact, if
you go back to twenty twenty one, you finished last
in the fifteen hundred meters at the US Olympic Trials,
and since then you've won two indoor and two outdoor
US National Championships in the fifteen hundred meter in silver
at Indoor Worlds to what do you attribute that kind
of progress?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Oh, Man, I mean, I think I changed a lot.
After the last trials, I kind of looked at my
life and my situation. I was like, I think it's
time to make change, you know, and so I moved.
I was living in San Diego and now I live
in flag Cut, Arizona, which is up at seven thousand
feet of elevation, and you know, I got a new
coach and he's he's amazing. And then I also changed sponsors,
(19:29):
like I was with Adidas and now I'm with lou Lemon.
Like I just changed so much in my life, and
so it's kind of hard to like pinpoint exactly what
it was that, you know, helped this success. But I
think kind of just what we were talking about, I'm
really really confident in who I am because I came
out and because you know, at the start, it was
really rocky, and you know that whole twenty twenty one
(19:52):
season I was I don't think I was used to
getting that much backlash and it did definitely affect me
on the track. But now, like I've done a lot
of personal growth, and not just that, I think the
whole track community as a whole has done incredible growth.
Like Carri Goucher, you know, an NBC broadcaster, has done
a phenomenal job of just keep getting better at like
(20:13):
like sometimes she messed up in the beginning, and but
she just like kept trying and like kept getting it right,
and now she's flawless. And that's kind of the new
standard now that all the other broadcasters are trying to
rise to. And then it's you know, it's media outlets
like city Smag is a big you know, media space
in the track and field world. And those guys are
my friends, and you know, they always get my pronouns right.
(20:34):
And whenever there's comments or people like you know, being
ignorant and stupid, they you know, start a conversation with them.
They're like, no, we're gonna get Nicky's pronouns right. And
Nicky's not binary and that's okay and it's not weird.
And it's it's like people I think constantly are trying
to other trans people. But I I've and because of
the people around me, like I'm kind of impossible to
be othered like I'm here and people get my pronouns right,
(20:57):
it's not weird, and you're actually weird if you get
it wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, oh kind of right.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
And there's such a freedom then of running as your
true self. And it's amazing how much limiting what people
can see of us, or not being authentic to ourselves
can affect even you know, the physical and the racing.
The fifteen I was a heptathlete.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
The eight hundred was already way.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Too far for me to run, and I can't even
imagine races like the fifteen hundred where you actually have
time to really think and strategize. So I'm wondering down
the stretch, what is your brain doing? Like at the
end of the eight hundred, I was just like, don't die,
don't die, don't die.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everything hurts, this sucks.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What are you doing to summon up the last bit
of strength and energy and speed that you have down
the stretch?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Oh? Man? Well, running can be a very emotional sport,
as you know, and so I actually think the emotion
can sometimes it can help you just as much as
it can hurt you. So I try to really just
focus and be in the moment and not let myself
think about like, oh my god, this straights determines if
you're an Olympian or not. Like that's just too.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Strong, so I can't even come there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And one of the last things my coach or what
we were kind of talking about leading into the trials
was like, don't try to make an Olympic team, try
to win a race. And that was like my goal
going in and so because I think it really helped
me kind of approach it as like this literally is
just another race. And but with that being said, I
do have a really strong finishing kick, and so a
lot of the time something I do is I find
(22:22):
something really emotional to think about, and I tell myself, like,
you're not allowed to think about that until one hundred
meters to go, and as soon as one hundred years
ago you can think about that. So I told myself
in this race it was like, think of all the
love and support and representation of your community, think about
like your childhood dream of being an Olympian, and like,
as soon as you hit one hundred to go, you
can like let that fill you and bring you home.
(22:43):
And like, it's just crazy because I've never had that
explosive of a kick off of that fast of a pace,
and I really think it was some like cosmic energy
or force of like love and support from around the world,
like pushing me home, and it was I mean everyone
I've talked to that watched that is like I literally
cried when you took like like it was an emotional experience,
(23:04):
and I think we all kind of felt it, including me,
And so yeah, I think that's that's kind of how
I kind of bottle up the emotions until I like
really need them.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's really awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I also believe a lot in like neuroplasticity and training
your brain using repetition to be in the position that
you were at the end and.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Be able to like know you can do it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And I know you've posted on social media some of
the mental work that you've done, like notes you've written
to yourself. I feel like people really underestimate how much
we're training ourselves in advance of a situation to be
ready for it and take advantage. How did you develop
that sort of skill set and figure out that those
kind of mental notes were useful for you?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, I really this year was the main goal of
mine to prioritize my mental health and you know, I've
just I've watched the Olympics my whole life, and you talk,
I feel like within more recently, like the past few Olympics,
you just see a ton of athletes like Simone Biles
or Michael Phelps, Like like I came home from the
Olympics and I was like the way to the world
(24:03):
and it was like I was not okay, And I
was like, Okay, well, I know this is a big year.
I know I'm capable of doing this, Like I just
it's not going to hurt me to like prioritize this
part of my life. And so yeah, I started going
to seeing a sports psych weekly and that I started
that in December, so it's only been about seven months.
But that's super helpful to just once a week talk
(24:23):
to someone about my fears and and you know, things
I want to work on. And then yeah, I think
I journal a ton and meditate. I think it was
just I know that this event and this sport, and
honestly any sport at the Olympic level, that when I'm
standing on the start line, like the eleven other people
I'm racing, we're all very fit. Like we can all
(24:44):
run sub four, we can all, and so what's going
to set us apart or in like the race is
like who who can believe in themselves more? Who can
like mentally be calm and like you know, not get
in their own way? And so I just really wanted
to prioritize that, and so it's it's been a really
fun journey of seeing what I can unlock just by
like doing the little things every single day.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Gosh.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I love the spokespeople for mental health going into this Olympics,
like you and Simone talking about it the way you
are is just it's going to help a lot of people,
I think, and that continuing to break down that stigma
of addressing those things and how meaningful and important it
can be.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What are you most excited about about Paris?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Oh man, I'm I'm just excited to take it all in.
Like I opening ceremonies is really exciting to me. I
think I want to be like a spectator, Like I'd
love to go to I don't know, a soccer game
or the gymnastics or swimming. Yeah, I think just being
in the athlete village is awesome. I'm excited for all
of it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I got to catch that beach volleyball right under the
Eiffel Tower. That looks like that set up that's absolutely insane.
You did an interview with Runners World last year and
actually talked about the idea of going to the Olympics,
and you said, quote, going to the Olympics is such
a dream of mine, But it's all also such a
dream of mine to take testosterone, or grow facial hair
or have top surgery. And so I think sometimes I
(26:05):
can really resent this sport. How are you reconciling those
feelings with the dream that you're now getting to achieve
by going to Paris.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, I think I think it's just like a great
example of like both things can exist at once. You
can be really happy and really sad.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
One of my favorite movies ever is Inside Out, and
it's just like kind of that message throughout it. And
I think kind of how I've reframed it or thought
about in my mind is I'm chasing one goal right now,
and that's to be the best athlete I can be
and represent my country and my community the best I
possibly can, and you know, set American records and win
some medals, like all goals that I have. But I
(26:44):
also have this really beautiful thing that I'm looking forward to,
like after my career is over, and I'm I think
a lot of times athletes you ask them, what, yeah,
what are you going to be when you retire? Like
what's the next chapter look like? And I have no
idea career wise what I want to do, you know,
like who knows? But I do know who I am
and I do know the gender affirming steps I want
(27:05):
to take, and that's that's really exciting for me to
know that, like, yeah, I can have both goals, just
maybe not at the same time.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That's fascinating because we do. We talk to athletes so
much about the loss of identity that they feel when
their athletic career ends, and in some ways you're gonna
be gaining one.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That's really totally wow. Yeah, an awesome thing to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You were on a panel at our espnW summit last
fall that was probably my favorite of the summit with
er fight Master and Leisia Clarendon, both of whom I'm
obsessed with, and I just love the entire conversation you had.
People can find it online on YouTube on ESPN if
they search for the summit in your name.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But I was really moved by this quote that you paraphrased.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
If you're born into a world in which you don't fit,
that means you were made to build a new one.
And I'm wondering how the building is going.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh, great question.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, it's a journey, like it's it's hard, it's it's
I think there is like an asterisk to all that.
It's like, you know, I crossed the finish line, and
I'm so excited in that moment, is like one of
the happiest I've ever been. And then there's this like
I go on social media and there's just like, of
course there's outpourting of love and support, but there's also like,
I don't know, this like cloud of like you're a man,
(28:19):
or you like you're a cheat or whatever it is
that it's just like, ugh, I hate that, Like, you know,
there's just like this, there is difficult parts in moments,
but I don't know. I was just at the s
p's and I don Staley gave an incredible speech and
she was basically talking about how in order to be
an incredible athlete, so much of your life you had
(28:40):
to go right. You know, you had to have good coaches.
You had to never fail a class or have a
career ending injury, right, Like, all the stars essentially had
to align for you to be sitting in this room.
I just like I literally felt she was like talking.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Directly to me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I was like like nodding my head, you know. And
then she's like and because of that, like this you
live in a extraordinary life, and like with that comes
an extraordinary responsibility. And it's it's just something like my
mom has said, my whole life is like with great
power comes great responsibility. And like, so how you all
these stars have aligned, You've arrived, How are you now
(29:15):
going to use it? Like you are so privileged? Like,
how are you now going to like use it to
stand up for what's right to make the world better?
And that was just kind of all the motivation I
needed to hear, like right before heading to Paris, is
like I am so lucky and privileged, and I'm like,
I'm trans and I'm in this community, but I'm like
one of the most digestible forms of a transperson, right,
(29:36):
Like I'm white, I'm non binary. Like I don't know,
I think there's just this I do. I feel like
I have this opportunity and responsibility to continue to like
be seen like why would I not? How could I?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Now? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Sure, Sometimes there's it's hard and it's exhausting, and it's like, oh,
why can't I just be a runner?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Like why do I?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
But like, I think it's worth it because in the end,
I know that I'm making space. For sure, I'm the first,
but I'm not the last, Like there's there's gonna be
tons of people that come after me.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I think it's not just the power of your accomplishments,
but the power of who you are, and you seem
like someone built for it. And those who can take
on that extraordinary burden of being a first or of
helping lead others into their truth like the that's that's
a power that almost can't be denied or turned away from.
It feels like it's it's almost necessary to use it.
(30:28):
And you are, which is fricking awesome. We're so excited
to watch you race. We're gonna be incredibly nervous, but
we're going to power through all of us. All the
good game listeners are going to be giving you all
that energy you talked about, just like throwing it across
the pond towards France and all the best luck to you.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I'm gonna need it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Thank you so much to Nikki for joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
We got to take another break, but when we come back,
we turn this thing into a family affair. Keep it
locked right here. You're back, Oh my god, so are
we fun? Don't forget that. We'd love to hear from you.
Guest suggestions, thoughts about the show, really, whatever's.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
On your mind.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Shoot us an email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com,
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy like this guy did.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Hey, this is Wit.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I'm calling from Indianapolis and yeah, I was fishing.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
For a podcast last night, and props to your marketing department,
I stumbled across this one.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Love you, Sarah, have a great day and have a
great show.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So I'm scrolling through your voicemails and listening to all
your lovely voices.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
And bam, that was my cousin, Wit. What a nice surprise.
Thanks for the love, cuz.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And actually that brings us to our good game play
of the day, because we love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game every day too,
so your mission, should you choose to accept it, leave
us a voicemail sharing one of your favorite memories of
watching the Olympics as a kid. Could be watching with family,
could be a memorable moment like Brian Boytano versus Brian Orser,
(32:11):
Carrie Strug's memorable vault, maybe Alison Felix dominating the track.
Or it could be getting inspired to play a sport
of your own after watching someone in the games. Whatever
it is, give us a call eight seven two two
o four fifty seventy. Keep it quick, maybe we'll play
it on the show. Don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review.
It's easy watch those robots and muscle people graphics in
(32:34):
the swimming events at the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Rating three out of five stars. Review.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
It can be useful to see what the swimmers' bodies
should look like when they're entering the pool or during
a relay, but it's also very unsettling, especially the fact
that they're wearing swim caps and goggles over their non
hair of their non eyeballs, not to mention the potential
for a dystopian, not so far off future where a
robot overloord are winning all the medals. Okay, now it's
(33:04):
your turn to rate and review. And while you're in
there scrolling down to find those stars and review, click
and take a look under each Good Game episode. My
amazing producers put all sorts of info in the episode notes,
useful links, and info galore for you down there. Thanks
for listening, and make sure you come back tomorrow for
another sure to be fun edition of group Chat. We're
gonna find out what happens when an ultra marathoner and
(33:26):
a TV producer who used to be married but aren't
anymore and still talk sports together share the mic. Good Game, Nikki,
Good Game, Lori Hernandez hw anyone who ever doubted Simone
Biles go go Goat, Goat, Goat?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
What is your g name?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Around? And Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart
women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You can find us on.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez, and
Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're putting
ourselves in time out for saying rugby player alone of
Mar's name wrong this whole time. Who the hell is
Alana Mayor? Come on, Spain, you're better than that, all right,
I'm a head out.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Uh, Sarah, you still kind of got to host the show?
Oh shit, right? All right.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
On today's show, we're gonna chat with American runner Nikki
Hilts about breaking the US Olympic Trials meet record in
the fifteen hundred, qualifying for Paris and educating and inspiring
fans along the way, plus more medals for Tmusa, we
take a walk down memory Lane, and more. It's all
coming up after the break. We're back, and here's what
(00:44):
you need to know today. First things First, Alone o Mar,
My apologies to our queen. It turns out I needed
to stop obsessively watching her instagrams and start obsessively watching
her games instead, you know, so i'd know how to
say her damn name right, and also.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
So I could watch them win a bronze medal. That's right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yesterday, Team USA rugby little slip up fell to New
Zealand in their semi final matchup twenty four to twelve,
but they bounced back in the bronze medal match later
in the day and defeated Australia fourteen to twelve on
a last second run by Alex Cedric with no time remaining.
If you didn't see it, you have to look it up.
That's the best finish and the first medal ever for
(01:29):
USA and rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
How about them Ruggers?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
And you know what, I saw someone say that the
rugby women were having their ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Ers moment in these games.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I do think that a lot of kids are
probably watching and searching how and where to play and
kind of falling in love with rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So what a legacy way to go, ladies.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And I think someone needs to book Alona on every
late night show or just give her her own show.
In gymnastics, Simone Biles and Team USA are golden again. Biles,
Jordan Chiles, Sunny Lee, Jade Care and sixteen year old
Hesley Rivera, who competed in qualifying but not in the final,
finished with a total score of one hundred and seventy
one point twenty nine to six. That's almost six points
(02:10):
clear of second place Italy. Simone earns her eighth Olympic medal,
passing Shannon Miller for the most all time by a
US gymnast, and her fifth gold ties a US record
set by Anton Hayda way back in nineteen oh four. Also,
according to NBC Sports, Nick sa Cardi, Ali Raisman was
the oldest US female gymnast to win Olympic gold at
(02:30):
twenty two, but now Simone, Jade and Jordan all surpassed that.
We love to see these ladies staying in the sport
longer and definitely competing with more joy. There's been this
real culture change in the sport in the last couple
of years, and that's been just incredible to see. Brazil's
Rebecca Andrages all around score was just zero point three
sixty six behind Simone Biles on the night. Now, Biles
(02:52):
didn't do her incredible Yurchenko double pike vault, that crazy
vault we keep seeing in this team event, so she
still got that trick up or sleeve heading into the
individual all around. On Thursday, I mentioned Italy got silver.
That's huge. They win an Olympic team medal for the
first time in ninety six years, and with the bronze
Brazil wins its first ever medal in the team event
(03:14):
and finally shout out to Laurie Hernandez on the call.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
She's such a joy to listen to. She's so human too.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
We get the gasps and the giggles alongside all the insights.
Just perfection And if you didn't know the story, she
was a real gold medalist. She failed to make the
Tokyo Olympic team, but went anyway as a commentator for NBC,
making the best of a disappointing situation and jump starting
her career as a broadcaster. And she's been great, so
an impressive pivot, even for a world class gymnast. In swimming,
(03:42):
the fifteen hundred meter freestyle final is today at three
pm Eastern.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
A little context here.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
This is just the second Olympics that women have been
allowed to swim the fifteen hundred meter. Until Tokyo, they
were stuck at eight hundred meters even though the men
have been swimming the fifteen hundred since nineteen oh eight.
You heard that right, And this is good news for
American Katie Ladeki because she's the favorite, and understandably so.
She has not lost a race in this event in
(04:07):
fourteen years and in the qualifier Ladeki beat the next
closest swimmer by almost twenty whole seconds.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's some goat shit on the pitch.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
USA Soccer already punched his ticket to the knockout stage,
but they close out group play today against Australia at
one pm Eastern Tierna Davidson will miss this game. She
suffered a knee contusion against Germany forward Jaden Shaw, who
missed the first two games due to a lingering lower
leg injury, will not be available either. In tennis, Coco
Goff suffered a surprising loss to Donna Vekich of Croatia
(04:39):
yesterday and it was deja.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Vu in a bad way.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Goff found herself fighting a similar call to the one
made by an official in the French Open in June,
and on the same court. Even so, there was a
return volli from Bekich hit near the baseline and a
line judge called it out. Because of the call, GoF
didn't keep the ball in play, but then the chair
umpire decided that Beckicch's shot did lit and in bounds
and gave her the point. Goff pleaded her case, saying
(05:03):
that the ball was called out before she hit it
and that she had a right to finish or swing
without being impeded by the call. But with no video
review available, the ump stood firm and Veckich was given
the point. For what it's worth, the call happened after
Gough was already behind, but it's still hard to measure
how a moment like that can affect a competitor's mindset.
So no singles medal for Coco, but she still got
(05:24):
a shot at medaling in women's doubles and mixed doubles.
The BMX Freestyle finals are today. Americans Hannah Roberts and
Paris Benegas will take to the course at seven ten
am Eastern on USA Network.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Roberts is a five time.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
World champion and will look to improve on the silver
medal she earned in the Olympic debut of BMX freestyle
three years ago. Plus there's plenty more to follow on
today's Olympic slate. Team USA Field Hockey taken on Australia
today at seven to fifteen am Eastern, looking for their
first win after opening with a loss to Argentina and
a drug against Spain.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Now, if you haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It, go watch this incredible play from that tie with Spain.
We're even going to link to it in our show notes.
Just a minute into the game, one of Spain's players
took a point blank shot on goal and it slipped
past the US keeper Kelsey Bing, but unclum and certified
badass Ashley Hoffman saved the day with a clutch defensive
save and it ended up leading to an incredible transition play.
(06:19):
Ten seconds later, Penn State's Fia Gladio found the back
of the net. Such a cool play. Even if you
don't understand bioldagi, even if you're still figuring out the rules,
go watch that and get hyped for USA Australia. Today
in indoor volleyball, USA plays Serbia and Pool A play
at eleven am Eastern. In beach volleyball, reigning world champs
Sarah Hughes and Kelly Chang of the US faced host
(06:41):
country France at nine am Eastern. That's streaming on Peacock.
They opened their Olympics with a two to zero win
over Checchia, and they can confirm a spot in the
round of sixteen with another pool see win today in
three x three basketball. After opening their Olympic campaign, With
the loss to Germany, the US team looked to rebound
against Azerbaijan at three point thirty pm. Easterns have never
played each other at a World Championships or an Olympic Games,
(07:03):
and Azerbaijan's roster sports a name familiar to many WNBA fans.
Las Vegas Aces guard Tiffany Hayes. Hayes became a naturalized
Azerbaijani citizen in twenty fifteen and will make her Olympic debut.
This is also Azerbaijan's first three x three appearance at
the Olympics. In honor of today's guest, the amazing Nicky Hilt,
(07:24):
who is a proud representative for the LGBTQIA plus community,
I want to shout out a great statistic from this
year's Olympic Games. Yep, that means it's time for good game,
good game, fact you. According to outsports dot Com, the
Paris Olympics have an all time record of one hundred
and ninety three openly lgbtqia plus athletes competing gay perie. Indeed,
(07:46):
also I want to shout out the Pride House, which
debuted at the twenty ten Olympics and this year is
located on a boat.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Floating down the Senne River.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
The Pride House acts as a hub for the queer
community during the competition, and this year there's even a
pop up Pride House where teams of volunteers will visit
various venues, meet with the public, and raise awareness of
the LGBTQIA plus issues in sport.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
We love it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay, we got to take a quick break, but when
we come back, we'll hear from Nicky Hilts.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Joining us today.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Nicki Hilts, the American record holder in the mile, the
two time reigning US outdoor fifteen hundred meter champion. At
the US Olympic Track Trials last month, Hilt's clock the
second fastest time ever recorded by an American in the
women's fifteen hundred meter race. Their time of three minutes
and fifty five point thirty three seconds was a personal
best and a meet record. They competed collegiately for Oregon
(08:37):
in Arkansas. They just might have more sunglasses than shoes
and fun fact, Hilts is a professional runner and they
can't even beat their own girlfriend in the steeplechase.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Welcome Nicki Hilts.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Very amazing intro. Thank you so much, I'm so excited
to be here.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Shout out to your girlfriend. I'm McGee.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
She's a steeplechaser. Hence the dig at you. I won't
even ask you if you think you could. You could
beat her if you trained hard enough, because I'm not
starting any beef. I'm not starting any beef in the household.
First of all, congrats on the Olympic berth. That's so
exciting and what an incredible time at the trials. You're
now the second fastest American in the fifteen hundred. The
(09:17):
top eight finishers in that trials race all set personal best.
That is a fast, fast race. The Olympics are such
a lifelong dream for so many athletes. I'm wondering how
that moment of crossing the finish line and knowing that
you're headed to the Games, how did that compare to
your expectations or maybe lifelong dreams about it.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, it was definitely just an amazing moment. I think
just a lot of emotions at once. I think one
was definitely joy, another was like relief because there's just
so much pressure on the trials, and then the third,
I would say, would be like shock, Like I knew
going into that race. You know, top three get an
Olympic berth and I knew I could be third, Like
(10:00):
that was something I was very confident in. But I'm
a competitor and I wanted to win, and like I
thought that I could, but obviously there was some doubt too,
because you know, Ellie Saint Pierre had had a PR
at the time that was four seconds better than mine.
So yeah, I mean I did believe deep down, but
like actually when it was happening and breaking the tape,
I was like, I can't believe I'm winning this right now,
(10:23):
Like what's going on? So yeah, just a lot of emotions.
And then you add on the fact that yet like, yes,
this race means a lot in that now I can
finally call myself an Olympian, And yeah, I think it's
just surreal because it's a goal I've had, I don't know,
probably ever since like two thousand and four, two thousand
and eight, just tuning into those Olympics as a kid. Uh.
I think I just was watching it and I was like,
(10:44):
I want to be there someday, and so it's just
crazy to, yeah, have a childhood dream just come true
like that.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
After you qualified for the Olympics. You said this race
is bigger than just me. Can you explain what you meant?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like the past few years,
you know, I've been very vocal and out about my
gender identity and sexuality, and so yeah, I wanted to
run this race for my community, and I just feel
when I stand on the start line, I just feel
so overwhelmed with love and support, and I think it
allows me to run really free because I know, no
matter what the result, or whether I'm first or last
(11:19):
in this race, I'm going to be loved and supported.
And so that is just such a gift that I
feel like I've gotten from the queer community, and so
I yeah, I wanted to give it back and just
think them in any way I could, And so yeah,
I feel like dedicating that race to them was like
my wife's just saying thank you for allowing me to
run so free.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
So cool.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
I want to give our listeners the correct context and
information for your gender identity and your sexuality. You're getting
a lot of incredible coverage about it, but a lot
of people still sort of misunderstand this or just don't
have the knowledge, haven't really talked about or read enough
about the differences between sex and gender and gender identity,
and especially in the sports world, that's so binary.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So let's sort of level set.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
On the International Transgender Day of Visibility of twenty twenty one,
you announce on Instagram that you're transgender and non binary.
So can you tell us what transgender and non binary
mean to you?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think people get confused. Yeah,
I'm non binary, but I use the term trans non
binary because I believe that being non binary is underneath
the trans umbrella. But I think people see the word
trans and automatically think, like, Okay, were you assigned female
at birth? And are you now you know, a transman
(12:31):
or vice versa, where you assigned male at birth and
you already trans woman? Like I think people are still
in that very binary headspace. And so yeah, to me,
like non binary means like just gender fluid and like
my my gender is it's a spectrum, like I've never
really identified fully with like girl and then vice versa,
never fully with boy either, and it's just somewhere in between.
(12:54):
And I didn't have context for what that meant until
I was a little bit older, you know. I think
it was the pandemic. Honestly, in twenty twenty, when you
know I got TikTok and my for you page, knew
I was trans before I did. It was it was
just that I saw them. The algorithms are too good,
and so I started seeing all this non binary representation
(13:15):
literally on my for you page and I was like,
oh my god, this is me. This is what I've
felt my entire life. And so yeah, and then a
year later, you know, on trans Day Visibility, I told
the you know, important people in my life and people,
you know, my partner and training partner and coach at
the time had started using d them pronouns for me.
But I was like, I think it's time to tell
(13:35):
the world. And this is something I kind of had
to come out about, because if you want people to
affirm you and your gender, you have to let them
know that you use the them pronounce you know. So
it was kind of, yeah, that was my journey, But
what was the question defined? But not okay?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think, you.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Know, as a straight SIS woman who actually covers a
lot of women's sports and actually gets into a lot
of issues around gender identity and sexuality. The result of
covering a lot of women's sports where the isms are
always at play. I just find so many people haven't
ever read or thought about it, so for them, they
don't understand well enough to get what you just articulated,
which is this idea of like, yes, sometimes I wake
(14:14):
up and I'm a dude's dude and sometimes I wake
up and I'm a.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Girl's girl, and it can be both.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And now we see so many more representations of that,
and we have the language for it, and that's allowing
so many people to understand the experiences of others.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
And I think it's sport.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It's particularly useful because unfortunately we do have these incredibly
gender binary sets that we are having to fit people into,
even if they don't feel like they fit in. And
I think some people are misunderstanding because they don't know enough,
and some people are being intentionally obtuse or even cruel.
You got a social media comment after winning at the trials.
(14:48):
Someone accused you of being quote a mediocre man stealing
a woman's place on the Olympic team. Your response and
correction were both perfect and hilarious. But how do you
explain to folks who don't understand what it means to
be non binary trans and competing in women's events.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I mean, I'm thinking back to the just the mediocre
man thing, and I actually wish I would have said
something like I feel like a mediocre man couldn't even
run three fifty five. But I'm not giving like a
lot of credit, like for men are.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Not winning the Olympic trials.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Come on, Yeah, exactly, but no, it's it's exactly like
you said, like some people are being ignorant on purpose,
and some people genuinely just have never heard what, don't
know what non binary means or and so yeah, I
do feel like I want to take my platform like
at times to educate. And I feel like the really
beautiful thing that's happened within the past three years is
(15:38):
that people have started to do it for me, like
you know, on my Instagram or whatever, Like someone will
be a comment like that's a dude or whatever it is,
and then you'll see at least five responses just from
my following or you know people who who yeah, like
are like, get out of here. You don't even know
what you're talking about, like he was a signed female birth.
Like people do it for me now, which I think
(15:58):
is really beautiful. And but yeah, no, they're always I
think there's always opportunities to like educate, and like obviously
there's people who are just like assholes and ignorant and
like I'm maybe never gonna change their hearts and minds,
but like the people that I don't know. I got
a really beautiful message the other day from someone who
was like, you know, my liberal grandpa was watching the
(16:19):
trials and I was like cheering for you and using
day them pronouns, and he was like like, why are
you using that? Like what do you mean they like
there's only one person, And she was like it was
a really beautiful moment where I got to like educate
him and he was like, oh, that's really cool, Like
I didn't know that, and like so just things like that,
I just really like fill my heart and like it's
not just this one. Like if you don't get it,
(16:41):
get out. I don't want to ever create that space.
I think in order to create change, you kind of
have to find those people in the middle and and
do your best to educate, and then if they don't
want to know, it's like okay, well then I don't care.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I did my best. I tried. Yeah,
my friend.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Chris moser Is is a transman in men's events and
talks a lot about how he almost has the privilege
of people not caring because they don't think that athletes
like him exist, and they also somehow think, well, he's
at a disadvantage being you know, assigned female at birth
and competing in the men's events. You also get some
(17:17):
accusations of abusing some sort of privilege of identifying as
trans and non binary but competing against women.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
How do you respond to that?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
It's usually not being said in good faith or curiosity,
but more so in a way to sort of continue
to demonize trans athletes.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just I know
my truth and like that's enough for me. Sometimes, Like
I know that i'm you know, I'm not taking any HRT,
Like I'm not on hormone replacement therapy, Like I'm not
on testosterone. Like I know that I'm doing it fair
and I'm or whatever, I'm following the rules, like whatever
you want to call it. And I I don't know,
(17:55):
I think that's enough for me. It's like, and also
I've nothing that anyone can say is anything that is
nothing's new. I've heard it all. I've seen it all.
Nothing's gonna catch me by surprise anymore. And like, yeah,
I also just think that I'm like I just have
a really good sports system around me, like my partner,
my coaches, my training partners, like my therapists, like my family,
(18:17):
Like I just have such a like it's a pretty
small team, but it's like my people, and like I
know that, Like nothing's going to penetrate that.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, does I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, you're damned if you do, damned
if you don't. So, like, if you're trying to please
everybody or fix the opinions of people that you don't
even know that aren't saying them with you know, good intent,
you'll spend a lot of time, you know, trying to
talk to people that don't deserve any energy your time.
I want to talk personal best because the Olympic Trials
is a really good time to have one, and you
(18:51):
have had many of them of late. In fact, if
you go back to twenty twenty one, you finished last
in the fifteen hundred meters at the US Olympic Trials,
and since then you've won two indoor and two outdoor
US National Championships in the fifteen hundred meter in silver
at Indoor Worlds to what do you attribute that kind
of progress?
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Oh, Man, I mean, I think I changed a lot.
After the last trials, I kind of looked at my
life and my situation. I was like, I think it's
time to make change, you know, and so I moved.
I was living in San Diego and now I live
in flag Cut, Arizona, which is up at seven thousand
feet of elevation, and you know, I got a new
coach and he's he's amazing. And then I also changed sponsors,
(19:29):
like I was with Adidas and now I'm with lou Lemon.
Like I just changed so much in my life, and
so it's kind of hard to like pinpoint exactly what
it was that, you know, helped this success. But I
think kind of just what we were talking about, I'm
really really confident in who I am because I came
out and because you know, at the start, it was
really rocky, and you know that whole twenty twenty one
(19:52):
season I was I don't think I was used to
getting that much backlash and it did definitely affect me
on the track. But now, like I've done a lot
of personal growth, and not just that, I think the
whole track community as a whole has done incredible growth.
Like Carri Goucher, you know, an NBC broadcaster, has done
a phenomenal job of just keep getting better at like
(20:13):
like sometimes she messed up in the beginning, and but
she just like kept trying and like kept getting it right,
and now she's flawless. And that's kind of the new
standard now that all the other broadcasters are trying to
rise to. And then it's you know, it's media outlets
like city Smag is a big you know, media space
in the track and field world. And those guys are
my friends, and you know, they always get my pronouns right.
(20:34):
And whenever there's comments or people like you know, being
ignorant and stupid, they you know, start a conversation with them.
They're like, no, we're gonna get Nicky's pronouns right. And
Nicky's not binary and that's okay and it's not weird.
And it's it's like people I think constantly are trying
to other trans people. But I I've and because of
the people around me, like I'm kind of impossible to
be othered like I'm here and people get my pronouns right,
(20:57):
it's not weird, and you're actually weird if you get
it wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, oh kind of right.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
And there's such a freedom then of running as your
true self. And it's amazing how much limiting what people
can see of us, or not being authentic to ourselves
can affect even you know, the physical and the racing.
The fifteen I was a heptathlete.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
The eight hundred was already way.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Too far for me to run, and I can't even
imagine races like the fifteen hundred where you actually have
time to really think and strategize. So I'm wondering down
the stretch, what is your brain doing? Like at the
end of the eight hundred, I was just like, don't die,
don't die, don't die.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Everything hurts, this sucks.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What are you doing to summon up the last bit
of strength and energy and speed that you have down
the stretch?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Oh? Man? Well, running can be a very emotional sport,
as you know, and so I actually think the emotion
can sometimes it can help you just as much as
it can hurt you. So I try to really just
focus and be in the moment and not let myself
think about like, oh my god, this straights determines if
you're an Olympian or not. Like that's just too.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Strong, so I can't even come there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And one of the last things my coach or what
we were kind of talking about leading into the trials
was like, don't try to make an Olympic team, try
to win a race. And that was like my goal
going in and so because I think it really helped
me kind of approach it as like this literally is
just another race. And but with that being said, I
do have a really strong finishing kick, and so a
lot of the time something I do is I find
(22:22):
something really emotional to think about, and I tell myself, like,
you're not allowed to think about that until one hundred
meters to go, and as soon as one hundred years
ago you can think about that. So I told myself
in this race it was like, think of all the
love and support and representation of your community, think about
like your childhood dream of being an Olympian, and like,
as soon as you hit one hundred to go, you
can like let that fill you and bring you home.
(22:43):
And like, it's just crazy because I've never had that
explosive of a kick off of that fast of a pace,
and I really think it was some like cosmic energy
or force of like love and support from around the world,
like pushing me home, and it was I mean everyone
I've talked to that watched that is like I literally
cried when you took like like it was an emotional experience,
(23:04):
and I think we all kind of felt it, including me,
And so yeah, I think that's that's kind of how
I kind of bottle up the emotions until I like
really need them.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
That's really awesome.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
I also believe a lot in like neuroplasticity and training
your brain using repetition to be in the position that
you were at the end and.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Be able to like know you can do it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
And I know you've posted on social media some of
the mental work that you've done, like notes you've written
to yourself. I feel like people really underestimate how much
we're training ourselves in advance of a situation to be
ready for it and take advantage. How did you develop
that sort of skill set and figure out that those
kind of mental notes were useful for you?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, I really this year was the main goal of
mine to prioritize my mental health and you know, I've
just I've watched the Olympics my whole life, and you talk,
I feel like within more recently, like the past few Olympics,
you just see a ton of athletes like Simone Biles
or Michael Phelps, Like like I came home from the
Olympics and I was like the way to the world
(24:03):
and it was like I was not okay, And I
was like, Okay, well, I know this is a big year.
I know I'm capable of doing this, Like I just
it's not going to hurt me to like prioritize this
part of my life. And so yeah, I started going
to seeing a sports psych weekly and that I started
that in December, so it's only been about seven months.
But that's super helpful to just once a week talk
(24:23):
to someone about my fears and and you know, things
I want to work on. And then yeah, I think
I journal a ton and meditate. I think it was
just I know that this event and this sport, and
honestly any sport at the Olympic level, that when I'm
standing on the start line, like the eleven other people
I'm racing, we're all very fit. Like we can all
(24:44):
run sub four, we can all, and so what's going
to set us apart or in like the race is
like who who can believe in themselves more? Who can
like mentally be calm and like you know, not get
in their own way? And so I just really wanted
to prioritize that, and so it's it's been a really
fun journey of seeing what I can unlock just by
like doing the little things every single day.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Gosh.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I love the spokespeople for mental health going into this Olympics,
like you and Simone talking about it the way you
are is just it's going to help a lot of people,
I think, and that continuing to break down that stigma
of addressing those things and how meaningful and important it
can be.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What are you most excited about about Paris?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Oh man, I'm I'm just excited to take it all in.
Like I opening ceremonies is really exciting to me. I
think I want to be like a spectator, Like I'd
love to go to I don't know, a soccer game
or the gymnastics or swimming. Yeah, I think just being
in the athlete village is awesome. I'm excited for all
of it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I got to catch that beach volleyball right under the
Eiffel Tower. That looks like that set up that's absolutely insane.
You did an interview with Runners World last year and
actually talked about the idea of going to the Olympics,
and you said, quote, going to the Olympics is such
a dream of mine, But it's all also such a
dream of mine to take testosterone, or grow facial hair
or have top surgery. And so I think sometimes I
(26:05):
can really resent this sport. How are you reconciling those
feelings with the dream that you're now getting to achieve
by going to Paris.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Yeah, I think I think it's just like a great
example of like both things can exist at once. You
can be really happy and really sad.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
And I don't know.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
One of my favorite movies ever is Inside Out, and
it's just like kind of that message throughout it. And
I think kind of how I've reframed it or thought
about in my mind is I'm chasing one goal right now,
and that's to be the best athlete I can be
and represent my country and my community the best I
possibly can, and you know, set American records and win
some medals, like all goals that I have. But I
(26:44):
also have this really beautiful thing that I'm looking forward to,
like after my career is over, and I'm I think
a lot of times athletes you ask them, what, yeah,
what are you going to be when you retire? Like
what's the next chapter look like? And I have no
idea career wise what I want to do, you know,
like who knows? But I do know who I am
and I do know the gender affirming steps I want
(27:05):
to take, and that's that's really exciting for me to
know that, like, yeah, I can have both goals, just
maybe not at the same time.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
That's fascinating because we do. We talk to athletes so
much about the loss of identity that they feel when
their athletic career ends, and in some ways you're gonna
be gaining one.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That's really totally wow. Yeah, an awesome thing to look
forward to.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You were on a panel at our espnW summit last
fall that was probably my favorite of the summit with
er fight Master and Leisia Clarendon, both of whom I'm
obsessed with, and I just love the entire conversation you had.
People can find it online on YouTube on ESPN if
they search for the summit in your name.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
But I was really moved by this quote that you paraphrased.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
If you're born into a world in which you don't fit,
that means you were made to build a new one.
And I'm wondering how the building is going.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Oh, great question.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, it's a journey, like it's it's hard, it's it's
I think there is like an asterisk to all that.
It's like, you know, I crossed the finish line, and
I'm so excited in that moment, is like one of
the happiest I've ever been. And then there's this like
I go on social media and there's just like, of
course there's outpourting of love and support, but there's also like,
I don't know, this like cloud of like you're a man,
(28:19):
or you like you're a cheat or whatever it is
that it's just like, ugh, I hate that, Like, you know,
there's just like this, there is difficult parts in moments,
but I don't know. I was just at the s
p's and I don Staley gave an incredible speech and
she was basically talking about how in order to be
an incredible athlete, so much of your life you had
(28:40):
to go right. You know, you had to have good coaches.
You had to never fail a class or have a
career ending injury, right, Like, all the stars essentially had
to align for you to be sitting in this room.
I just like I literally felt she was like talking.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Directly to me.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I was like like nodding my head, you know. And
then she's like and because of that, like this you
live in a extraordinary life, and like with that comes
an extraordinary responsibility. And it's it's just something like my
mom has said, my whole life is like with great
power comes great responsibility. And like, so how you all
these stars have aligned, You've arrived, How are you now
(29:15):
going to use it? Like you are so privileged? Like,
how are you now going to like use it to
stand up for what's right to make the world better?
And that was just kind of all the motivation I
needed to hear, like right before heading to Paris, is
like I am so lucky and privileged, and I'm like,
I'm trans and I'm in this community, but I'm like
one of the most digestible forms of a transperson, right,
(29:36):
Like I'm white, I'm non binary. Like I don't know,
I think there's just this I do. I feel like
I have this opportunity and responsibility to continue to like
be seen like why would I not? How could I?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Now? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Sure, Sometimes there's it's hard and it's exhausting, and it's like, oh,
why can't I just be a runner?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Like why do I?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
But like, I think it's worth it because in the end,
I know that I'm making space. For sure, I'm the first,
but I'm not the last, Like there's there's gonna be
tons of people that come after me.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I think it's not just the power of your accomplishments,
but the power of who you are, and you seem
like someone built for it. And those who can take
on that extraordinary burden of being a first or of
helping lead others into their truth like the that's that's
a power that almost can't be denied or turned away from.
It feels like it's it's almost necessary to use it.
(30:28):
And you are, which is fricking awesome. We're so excited
to watch you race. We're gonna be incredibly nervous, but
we're going to power through all of us. All the
good game listeners are going to be giving you all
that energy you talked about, just like throwing it across
the pond towards France and all the best luck to you.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I'm gonna need it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Thank you so much to Nikki for joining us.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
We got to take another break, but when we come back,
we turn this thing into a family affair. Keep it
locked right here. You're back, Oh my god, so are
we fun? Don't forget that. We'd love to hear from you.
Guest suggestions, thoughts about the show, really, whatever's.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
On your mind.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Shoot us an email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com,
or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two two
oh four fifty seventy like this guy did.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Hey, this is Wit.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
I'm calling from Indianapolis and yeah, I was fishing.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
For a podcast last night, and props to your marketing department,
I stumbled across this one.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Love you, Sarah, have a great day and have a
great show.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
So I'm scrolling through your voicemails and listening to all
your lovely voices.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
And bam, that was my cousin, Wit. What a nice surprise.
Thanks for the love, cuz.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And actually that brings us to our good game play
of the day, because we love that you're listening, but
we want you to get in the game every day too,
so your mission, should you choose to accept it, leave
us a voicemail sharing one of your favorite memories of
watching the Olympics as a kid. Could be watching with family,
could be a memorable moment like Brian Boytano versus Brian Orser,
(32:11):
Carrie Strug's memorable vault, maybe Alison Felix dominating the track.
Or it could be getting inspired to play a sport
of your own after watching someone in the games. Whatever
it is, give us a call eight seven two two
o four fifty seventy. Keep it quick, maybe we'll play
it on the show. Don't forget to subscribe, Rate and review.
It's easy watch those robots and muscle people graphics in
(32:34):
the swimming events at the Olympics.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Rating three out of five stars. Review.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
It can be useful to see what the swimmers' bodies
should look like when they're entering the pool or during
a relay, but it's also very unsettling, especially the fact
that they're wearing swim caps and goggles over their non
hair of their non eyeballs, not to mention the potential
for a dystopian, not so far off future where a
robot overloord are winning all the medals. Okay, now it's
(33:04):
your turn to rate and review. And while you're in
there scrolling down to find those stars and review, click
and take a look under each Good Game episode. My
amazing producers put all sorts of info in the episode notes,
useful links, and info galore for you down there. Thanks
for listening, and make sure you come back tomorrow for
another sure to be fun edition of group Chat. We're
gonna find out what happens when an ultra marathoner and
(33:26):
a TV producer who used to be married but aren't
anymore and still talk sports together share the mic. Good Game, Nikki,
Good Game, Lori Hernandez hw anyone who ever doubted Simone
Biles go go Goat, Goat, Goat?
Speaker 2 (33:40):
What is your g name?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Around? And Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart
women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
You can find us on.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Jenny Kaplan.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Brittany Martinez, and
Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Host Sarah Spain
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