No More Running feat. Marion Jones

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Once upon a time there was a good old traditional housewife.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
She couldn't.

Speaker 1 (00:04):
She cleaned and cared for her children and the man
of the house, and of course she didn't talk back.
She was both obedient and soft by nature.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
She was a good woman who always made good choices.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
That shit, we're good Mom's bad choices too, single mom
who said fuck the patriarchy, shared all their bad choices
and sound out they were so bad.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
After all, we're experts, overshares and your new besties.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Sit back and enjoy the ride.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I can do it. Welcome back to Good Mom's Bad Choices.
I'm Erica and I'm Meila.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Happy Wednesday, bitches.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
It's Wednesday, y'all, and we're back in the studio.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
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We don't harass them enough. We've harassed you previously.

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Speaker 4 (01:40):
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Speaker 1 (02:00):
Roll your joints or not. If you don't smoke. That's
mine too.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
Anyway, we're back in the studio. We have a very
very special guest today. I'm very excited.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
I'm really excited because I'm fangirling because she was my
idol growing up. As a former track star. Myself, I
have a very short lived track star career. You don't
know this about me.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Oh apparently not. I learned to the new every day.
She's a soccer star track star.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Now depends on the guests.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Anyway, I would like to welcome to the show, former
world champion chap track star. Also, I didn't realize you
played in the WNBA coach mother, motivational speaker, the one
and only Mary and.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Johnes recently podcaster.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, overall icon first black female athlete on the cover
of Vogue, Darling. I remember that Vogue cover. That was
really beautiful, that red dress.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yes, I wish I could get in that red dress.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
Now, good, you do look great? Really good?

Speaker 1 (03:02):
How are you?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I'm I'm joyful.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
Yeah, I'm happy.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I am. You know.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
I don't get back to Los Angeles very often, and
coming back home and just being in this space is nice.
But just kind of where I'm at in my world
is a joyful time.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
I didn't realize that you were born here, like that
you are bor An La Native and lived in the valley.

Speaker 4 (03:26):
Like us, we rarely get anyone others, particularly other black
women who are from valley.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
So yeah, when you all said that you were from here,
I was like.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Wait, what, I know, it's very rares. Very well, it's
not rare anymore. I think there's a lot of black
people in the valley now, but like in the eighties
and the nineties and and before that, like, no, that.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Is I told her, gave the way, Yeah, trailblazers. Growing
up when when I I grow a person, so I
was like five. Growing up, I thought that all black
people nodded at each other, like in the mall in
public because my parent, my dad always to other black people.
So now and like I'm always like to black people
and they're like, I'm like, what the fuck you didn't

(04:06):
get the memo we're in the valley. You fucking you're
not at me.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I think it's a man to man thing.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Oh yeah, or at least smile.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
But you know, I do think I would like to
say that we need to bring nodding to the women too.
We need to do an at least a great bab
like something like the men nod and the women do
you have to poke your lips out like that's the.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Stank poke.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Girl.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Hey, that's too much me.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
Another black, another black fucking harlem shaking. Oh my god,
you're trying to take my man.

Speaker 6 (04:46):
Oh my god, you start to shake, you know, your
titties start to move and.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Stuff ain't taking nobody's man. Want to cleave it out.
This is a p s. A announcement to all black people,
people of color who live in places where you were
the minority and there's mostly whites, you better smile or
nod or when you see another black person. It is
just the role of thumb. If your parents didn't teach you,

(05:12):
I'm gonna teach you. You always acknowledge another black person
just to say, hey, I got you. If something goes
down in this mall, I see you.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Well I think that's what I think. That's what it's
rooted in. What it's like, Hey, like there's there's a
few of us over there work Just in case there's
a few, I mean, I see, just in case I
acknowledge one, two, three, four, yep, counter.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
Even like there's for a minute I started noticing people
like when all this twenty twenty, well, when the America
was happening, when I would see like a black person
pulled over, I would see other people like pull over
and just like kind of wait for them. Yeah, I
remember that too, or like sometimes like I would. One
time I went to the ATM. It was late at night.
I was with Luna and I went to the ATM
and I saw a guy like waiting for me, and
I was like, he's gonna fucking rob me. And then
I was like, oh no, he's been kind. He's looking

(05:53):
out for me. You know, like what bring back fucking
people at care like empathy and compass for other people,
especially the people that look like you. Because I feel
like we're moving into a place that's so New York
and so isolated, and it's like that's not the California
Way and it's definitely not the Black way. So get
your ship together, black people.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
You tell them, girl, let them know which.

Speaker 4 (06:17):
You know my middle names Asada, y'all, Oh God, here
we go. Don't start with me.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
I'm just saying you should have run down all her credentials.
She was a server in Atlanta, Mida Jamaican Trey LAWNI
she's the sex of the podcast.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
I'm gonna go there, but thank you for going down
the list. I was only going to say that my
middle name's Asada, okay, because I'm a black panther at heart.
If you want to go down the rest of my resume,
those are also very important things.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
My hospitality got it, very top notch hospitality server here.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Ask about me Atlanta.

Speaker 5 (06:50):
Put this on the comments.

Speaker 4 (06:53):
You're in Atlanta in the two thousands and you saw
me at the hotels doing my thing. Put it in
the comments. Any of yer couldn't know what's up. I
know we all know.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
We've all experienced it. Every person.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
My dad would be like, I know, we all know,
we all have heard it.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
At what point is it like like it's too far
in the past, so when you're like six years old.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
You're still gonna be erased very soon.

Speaker 4 (07:17):
What would ask?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
They're erasing everybody mine.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
That's That's why I'm a storyteller. This is this, you
know what, she could be a race.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I'm not mad at certain things being a race.

Speaker 4 (07:27):
Every every story contributes to like the the final product
of like the meal. You know, every dash of salt,
even if he spilled too much that time, like it
always like it always equates to how we come to
show up at this point. So I'm not really about erasing.
I barely erase pictures of ex boyfriends and she because
I gotta remind myself, like, bitch, memory did it.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
I'm gonna disagree. I'm all for expunging certain things that
expunging take it off the fucking record.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
Okay, what would you take off?

Speaker 1 (07:57):
I would take off. Oh yeah, one of my boyfriends,
the one with the one, the one with Michael Jackson impersonator,
would be expunged because it was that.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
His career, that was his career.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
Basically basically, yeah, he's still doing it.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
He's very talented. Yes he looks like but he's a
questionable human and for some reason, everybody knows him and
every time I dated him.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
And if you talk about him on here now everybody's good.
You guys, please look.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
At up everyone time I mention him, and I because
I now, I mention it because I'd like like to
get a kick out of it, because people are like, oh, yeah,
I know, blah blah blah, and I'm like, yeah, I
used to date him. They're like, what the fuck?

Speaker 4 (08:32):
When you told me that, I was like, do we
need to be friends? Still? Do you? Would you expunge
anything from your life record?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (08:39):
Yes, the same thing, so a few relationships. But I'm
similar in the thinking, like what you said, like everything
is creates where I'm at now, it doesn't mean that
it doesn't exist.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
It means it doesn't exist for everyone else to view.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
I'm not saying that deletes from me, and I'm blacking
it for publicly. Okay, well yeah you no, No, I
think that you know everything. Everything you do leads you
to where we're at right in this very moment. So yes,
but we could have left mister Michael Jackson, I personator
off the record.

Speaker 6 (09:12):
I'm gonna have to get to Google, and I'm gonna
have to get to I'm gonna have to go down
this rabbit. I'm gonna have to go down this rabbit.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Marian, It's really all over. I was proud, I will
stalk in my defense, I was like seventeen, okay, and
he was much older than me, and he tricked me. Okay,
he was taking me to nice dinners and I was
in high school, take flying me out to Vegas and
I was in high Yeah, I was at my dad's house.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
Oh my god, I'm so happy I'm not the only
fucking badass teenager who was literally lying about being in
the state. I was literally underage and flying to Philadelphia
to go see like drug dealer and niggas that my
cousin cousin hooked.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Me up with.

Speaker 4 (09:52):
And I'm like, I'm that Daniell's No.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Well, see, I would tell my dad. My parents didn't talk,
so I knew if I was at my dad's house
there was no way to was going to like reach
out and ask. So he was always my scapegoat. So
thanks Dad, Our kids.

Speaker 4 (10:05):
Are being locked the fuck in the house.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Hopefully they just tell us.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, my kid's pretty.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Are they on on social media?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Your kids like have her own account or you let
them go go on there.

Speaker 4 (10:17):
I mean, well, Erica just exposed my daughter that she
had a TikTok recently, and I remember it on the
way to school yesterday and I was like, she says
something about TikTok going getting banned, and I was like,
speaking of TikTok, do you have a TikTok? And she
was like, yeah, I know you did, because Erica told me.
She's like, I was like, why would you get to
TikTok And when you have a cover star, it's like
the kid when she's like, sorry, mommy, I just wanted

(10:39):
to see some of the songs.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I was like, did she go babyish when she.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
Said she was going to delete it? It's Luna, I tried.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I saw you on TikTok last night.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
Girl, last night.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
She was she said she'd be saving things and liking
things on our page. That's how I found her on TikTok.
I wasn't like looking for her page.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
What do you mean she's save shit on our page?

Speaker 1 (11:01):
She literally it said like Luna web or Luna with
like emojis.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
And shit saved this video of ours.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yes, but no, it's her videos on our page because
you know, our kids take our phones, create content and
post it without our consent. And I've had to like
tell her, like, girl, you can't just she'll like do
songs that are like inappropriate and like there's like one
like don't drop the soap in the shower and I
was like, and people were like, where's your mom, like
in the comments like go get your mom, and I'm like,

(11:29):
what the fuck.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
Or she'll like.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Then Iri was posting kids from her school. I was like, babe, like,
you can't need my permission to post.

Speaker 4 (11:38):
So yeah, like you know your mom's are famous.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
How old are your kids?

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Twenty one, seventeen, fifteen?

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay? So there are they on the socials things. They
have their own accounts and doing all the things.

Speaker 6 (11:47):
But like my village, my people are all follow them
and so and I do too, and so if anything
pops up, they're not.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
They barely.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
They like to repost their friends stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
They're not doing too much original contents. Thankfully.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
We're living in a weird time. You guys grow raising
kids in this time, but it's so different than like
what we grew up as. It's just like what the fuck?

Speaker 6 (12:11):
Yeah, And I mean we chatted about it briefly, just
in terms of all the distractions they have now, right,
it's like for us, well, for me, there was no distractions.
It was get out when the light when the sun
comes up, you're outside, right. You don't even come inside
to go to bathroom, like when when street lights come
back on, you come inside, right, and there's no there's

(12:32):
no electronics or anything.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
And it's a much different time obviously.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I mean I I Yeah, we were talking about that
because I was. I was telling her like I was
an athlete from the like from as early as I
could be an athlete pretty much like. And I don't
know if that was because of me. I'm pretty sure
it was because of my mom. My dad was also
a professional athlete as well, and so I think there
was just this assumption that I was supposed to do
that and I was going to be good at it

(12:56):
football and in track he ran track and in college
and yeah, it was this assumption that I was supposed
to be good at all these things, and I was.
I was good. And I think sometimes I even regret.
I'm like, damn, I could have like probably like went
far if I just didn't start smoking weed.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Now your downfall it was, it was literally the next
Marion Jones. But I would have been I could have
I could have been the fastest woman in the world,
just like well never no, never, know it.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Wasn't for that devil cannabis.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
No.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
But I think about my daughter and like, I just
I haven't really pushed it on her in that way.
And as I was driving here thinking about you and
thinking about me and my trajectory and how sports is
really was a major part of my life. And I
was thinking, I think sports was also such a an
activator in my confidence and working with people and like

(13:50):
you know, working for a common goal. I actually didn't
like track that much because it felt I felt so
alone in it, like because I was doing like the
one hundred to two hundred maybe the four by what
I did love, but I felt like, oh my god,
it's all on me.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Like fuck.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
But I was like, oh my god, am I had
I too late? Is my daughter not going to be
a track star? Is she not going to be in
the WNBA because it has been playing?

Speaker 6 (14:12):
Stressed too much about in terms of not like pushing
her because nobody like pushed me.

Speaker 5 (14:16):
Yeah, how I was just exposed to it. Like my
stepfather loved.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
The Dodgers and love the Lakers, and we would go
to games and he would sit down after the races
and the competitions and the games and he would force
the only thing he would force me to do is
watch the post game interviews. And I never understood then,
but he was teaching me how to be humble. He
was teaching me how to communicate my thoughts.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
And my ideas right and the more that I'm.

Speaker 6 (14:44):
Around it, like, and that's just the same thing with
my kids, Like I don't push them to do anything,
but it's.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Always on the TV.

Speaker 6 (14:49):
We're going to games, we talk about it. They're exposed
to it, they understand it.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
So yeah, I mean, it's turn a game, man, you know,
go to a game. I know, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
I think my daughter affinity to basketball really is because
her dad loves basketball so much. And that's like, girl,
I would say, so, and that's there, that's their time
together because I have her most of the time. So
when they are together like that, he's watching the game.
And so she's like she'll come home and be like
talking about all these basketball players' names, and I'm like, who, Like, you.

Speaker 6 (15:20):
Don't know, Like, just give us one name, girl, Lebron.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
I knew you so easy, Lebron.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
That's all I got. She said, some guy Shaka Shaka one. Yeah, Luka,
the big one, the one that we were talking about,
the big white man. Yeah, okay, so yeah, thatman Russian
talk about. She was She's like, Luka Dagadogovich got traded
to the DA he got the biggest contract and blah
blah blah, and I was like, what, Okay, you are

(15:51):
living a whole other life at daddy's house because I
don't know what the you're talking about. But she wanted
to play basketball and that's kind of their thing too,
Like he'll take her to practice and he is psycho
when he's at the game, Like at the practices, he's
super intense yelling at her and I'm like whoa, and
she's listening. So I'm like, Okay, maybe it's gonna work out.
Because you don't want to listen to me when it
comes to sports. She'll be like, I'm like, I played soccer,

(16:13):
I know how to play this game. The difference. So anyway,
So Marian, tell us about your story.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I know it was almost a shock star for someone
you were.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
You were almost a black panther.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
Missed my time. I might bring him back though black
panthers too.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
I think it's time.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
I think it's time. Think about time.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
If you guys want to start the bake, I'll be
the Angela Davis here. Okay, we're bringing it back.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
No, we're going to tighten up that fro though yea safe,
it'd be.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Safe enough so we don't get like go to jail.
But you know, yeah, I would love to know. Okay,
so you grew about here, how did you What was
your entry into sorts and track?

Speaker 2 (17:01):
And yeah, you know, I'm all.

Speaker 6 (17:03):
I'm from a single parent household. My mom who's originally
from Belize. Oh wow, Yeah, beautiful country in Central America.
She came up to the States when my brother was
I have one older brother, he's five years older than me.
She came up to the States just for better life.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Started in New York.

Speaker 6 (17:21):
A lot of Beligians, you know, start there, and then
she had family out here in California, Los Angeles areas.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
So she came out here, met my father I was born.
They were divorced when I was.

Speaker 6 (17:31):
Three, and yeah, she just started raising us, and I
just naturally gravitated towards it. You know, I have an
old he's five years older than me. So I like
to joke, but not really. When your older brother is
picking you to be on his neighborhood teams, you know
there's something a little.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
Special, right, Like he was bypassing his buddies because.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
He wants his little sisters chosen.

Speaker 4 (17:53):
Yeah. Yes, like I'm good, I gotta be.

Speaker 5 (17:57):
So just got involved in every sport.

Speaker 6 (18:01):
My mom and my stepdad married, and he really was
the catalyst to getting me.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
To love sport.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
We would go to Dodgers games, we would go to
Lakers games, Clippers games. When they're at the sports arena
where they now, I don't know, they're.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Still slaying of the downtown.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
They do, they're here. How old are you when your
mom married your stepdad? Hey, I must have been about four,
okay five so, and he was.

Speaker 6 (18:35):
He was significantly older than my mom. He was former navy,
navy cook. So he would like, he's stay home, but
my mom had to work.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
She would drive.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
From the valley to Beverly Hills and then we moved
out to Palmdale. She would drive to Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
And what was she doing in Beverly Hills.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
She's a legal secretary yep.

Speaker 6 (18:54):
And she would commute and it was just a really
good time in my life.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
I love that you had like a stay at home dad. Yeah,
So like was that I guess was that did that
impact you in a way that it may be different
than it did?

Speaker 5 (19:11):
I guess I never even really thought of it like that.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
You know, he was just everything, you know, he was warm,
he was loving, he was intelligent, he could cook, and
he was when he was in the navy, he was
the cook like thousands of men.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Oh, I've shared this story.

Speaker 6 (19:28):
Recently that you guys remember back in the day, there
was this a store called Fedco.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
It kind of was like the Costco now.

Speaker 6 (19:36):
They have Costco and Sam's Club now, but before then
it was Fedco. Anyways, he would go to Fedco and
he would load up on like meat that was on sale,
just because he had a history of having to cook
for thousands of people.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
He would load it up in the freezer and he
would go bad and my mom would hate it.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
Right anyways, the food was amazing.

Speaker 6 (19:54):
I just I felt seen and heard and it was amazing.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
And then he passed away when I was nine.

Speaker 6 (20:02):
Oh damn yeah, and my mom was forced to be
single parent again. And at that point, my biological dad,
who was here in Los Angeles, had decided that he
wasn't a part of like wanted to be a part
of my life. My brother and I have different dads,
and I having my stepdad in my life and then not.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Having any father figure in my life.

Speaker 5 (20:27):
Even though I had a father, like a biological father
who was alive.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
We didn't want any parts of me.

Speaker 6 (20:33):
It was just really hard, and my mom was dealing
with grief in her own way, and I was dealing
with grief in my way. And then I become a teenager,
and then you know teenage girls, shit hits the fan
and I don't know how to like what where to
turn to. But thankfully I turned to sport.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
Like that was my.

Speaker 6 (20:54):
Alcohol, that was my drug of choice, and I found
that I was just very good from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
What was your first sport?

Speaker 2 (21:02):
My first board was soccer. My mom coached, my older
brother brother was the assistant, so cute. I loved it.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
And then track there was a little recreation community team
in Palmdale because we had moved out there to have
to buy a house more Land, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
It was just it was good, good and yeah.

Speaker 6 (21:24):
From there, moved into basketball and it just kind of
By the time I was fifteen, I was competing here
at UCLA and the meets and qualifying for the Olympic team.

Speaker 4 (21:33):
So you knew in high school that you're probably going
to go to the Olympics, Oh, no doubt.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, wow, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (21:41):
I just I was I was the type of kid
whom you didn't have to like push I was waiting
at the door with my backpack. I was going to
bed at eight pm the night before to make sure
I had enough sleep. Right, I was like, come on,
Mom's that's who I was.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
A natural drive for it.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Natural drive eighty four.

Speaker 6 (22:00):
I was nine years old in nineteen eighty four and
that was when the Olympics came to Los Angeles and
did you go?

Speaker 2 (22:06):
So? The tickets are expensive, single mom.

Speaker 6 (22:09):
So, but my mom found a way to take me
to the Olympic parade and this is when the athletes
would be paraded down the street prior to the games,
because she wanted me to just be in that space.
And that summer, I sat in front of my TV
and I watched for the first time, and I knew
that that had to be me.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I didn't know what's sport. I didn't know, but I
knew I wanted that moment when they're about to cross
the line and you can see it.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
I knew I wanted it. I wrote it on my chalkboard.
Olympic champion at nine. So fast forward to fifteen. Made
the Olympic team decided not to go? Right?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Picked up basketball?

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Or why I just said not to go?

Speaker 6 (22:48):
Well, I wrote Olympic champion on my chalkboard at nine,
and I knew that at the age of fifteen, I
would just be on the relay and although I would
have gotten a gold medal, it.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Wouldn't have been like you.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
Yes, and I wanted my first to be me, So.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
We opted not to go wow, and I stayed here
and mart strategic. Yeah my mom, My mom said, you
also stayed here because you needed to get your grades.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Was your mom at that time kind of like your
manager or your guide essentially, or did you have like
coaches that were kind of guiding her and giving her
and what's the best path for you?

Speaker 6 (23:25):
At that point, My mom was sacrificing a lot of
like drive time from here to there to get me
to training. And I wouldn't say a manager, but she
was definitely the guiding force in terms of Okay, you
probably should do that meet, you probably shouldn't do that meet,
and so yeah, she was kind of running the show,
and especially even when it came to the grades. You know,

(23:47):
my mom is tough, right. She comes from a background,
very conservative Caribbean. You know, former British rule believes was
formal formally run by British rule and so like things
have to be on task, and if grades weren't up
to snuff, if you weren't competing.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
So yeah, fifteen.

Speaker 6 (24:07):
But then around that time I started to pick up
basketball and loved it, but skill wise I was very athletic,
of course, but skill wise it wasn't up to where
it needed to be.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
But my athletic ability overshadowed it.

Speaker 6 (24:21):
So I think my senior year seventeen, I decided to
take a basketball scholarship and travel cross country to North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Play basketball there, and dabble in track.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
So if you know anything about the California track world,
like it's strong, like we have some of the best
in the country come from this area. And so the
the decision to travel cross country, not go to UCLA,
not go to USC, not go to Stanford, and go
to North Carolina like the track role.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Was like what what?

Speaker 5 (24:54):
I just I loved East Coast, I loved.

Speaker 6 (24:58):
The campus there, and and it was a good decision
because my freshman year we won the national title.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
And also you were going to shine there.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I was gonna shine.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I wanted to shine anywhere, but you were really gonna
shine there in basketball. But I would imagine anywhere I
would have shoed not right like it is.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Told me to be humble. Yeah, that was a given right.

Speaker 6 (25:25):
But I also wanted to play. If I had chosen
potentially to play out of Stanford or u c l A,
my playing time because I was still very novice in
the sport of basketball, would have been limited.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
So I chose the school like North Carolina.

Speaker 6 (25:37):
Who didn't have an extensive history of success in the
women's game, and I wanted to be on the court.
And it was a good decision because my freshman year
we won the title. And yeah, yeah, I also, you know,
had a desire to I have a gift for gab
a little bit, and broadcast journalism was something that I
was interested in.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Great program there, and so that's how that all.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Came to be. Wow.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, as I'm thinking about your your journey and also
like the passing of your stepfather and not having a
father figure. I know, just in sports in general, a
lot of times coaches kind of take on that role
or in that realm, and that can be like a
blessing and it also can be challenging because you're kind

(26:21):
of trusting these men to guide you, to protect you
within that I guess in those early years in that journey,
like was that your story, like did you have that?

Speaker 6 (26:33):
Or my story was that I disguised a lot of
the pain and poured it all into my sport. Like
I don't even think they like I communicated that I
was struggling because I didn't want anything to distract me
from like as very goal oriented then and now, and.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I didn't even want to distract I needed them to.

Speaker 6 (26:54):
Be focused on the task at hand, which was training
me to get where I needed to be. And it
was it was just a really challenging time.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
I mentioned that.

Speaker 6 (27:05):
We won the title my freshman year. My sophomore year,
team traveled out to California to Los Angeles. It was
the first time I had come back here since going
to college. Hadn't seen my biological father, and I don't
know how many years. And so I'm playing at Polly
Pavilion at UCLA. We were playing Stanford, we were losing.
It was the Sweet sixteen. I run into the locker

(27:27):
room at Polly Pavilion at halftime, and you know, I
just glanced into the audience and I see my biological
father right just like caught eyes like a little bit stunned,
but I'm trying to stay.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Focused, right.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
Yeah, I didn't know how to we come back out
from the locker room.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
We lose, We lose the game, but.

Speaker 6 (27:46):
I'm excited to see friends and family that I hadn't seen,
and particularly just the like connect with him, and he
was nowhere to be found. Fast forward and fast forward,
and then we'll back up if we need to. Two
thousand and one, on I get a call from his
common law.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Wife that he had passed.

Speaker 6 (28:03):
So seeing him at the game was literally the last
time that I saw him.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (28:09):
And again, so many unanswered questions, so many answer unanswered questions,
but one of them that was answered was all along
I thought, I wonder if he knows anything about my
success like my successes. Does he know that I went
to North Carolina? Does you know I played basketball? Does
you know I won the national championship? Does he know
that I'm Olympic champion? And seeing him at the game,

(28:34):
I knew that he knew that I played. And then
following finding out afterwards from his people that he had.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
A scrap book. Wow, like scrapbook.

Speaker 6 (28:44):
Of like me in Sydney and again, but the questions
are like why why a scrap, But why not just
pull up right? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (28:51):
You know who knows. I mean I could go down
that road and.

Speaker 6 (28:54):
I have for for many years, but it was just
a real hard time in my life.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Yeah, I mean I would imagine that's I think for
any young girl, Like the father is such a complicated
and get crucial figure in our in our existence, and
it always so much of how we show up in
our relationships, so much how we show up in our
decision making comes from whoever was that figure in our life.

(29:26):
And so if there was, if if you luckily you
had someone enduring I guess a lot of your formidable years.
They always say, like you know you who you are,
between how you are, what you learn between the ages
of one and seven, it's like sets the foundation for
who you're going to be moving forward. Obviously there's a
lot of layers and factors between then in adulthood, but

(29:48):
but still like there's that wound there, that that father
wound that exists.

Speaker 6 (29:52):
And I think even even more so when you when
you participate in sports.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Right, because it's like a man dominated world.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
You know generally, and the idea that you know you
don't have anyone to turn to when it comes to
that it is just and we also are from a
culture whereby those times are slowly, thankfully changing, but you know,
we still hold onto this.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Don't air your dirty laundry, right, like the.

Speaker 6 (30:21):
Mental health thing and that you know, I certainly wasn't
sharing that with a coach, like I said, nor was
I going to get any type of therapy to help
me navigate through it all. It's one of the lessons
that I've learned, especially with my own kids. Right like
I'm going to talk to them, I'm gonna make them talk,
right if I'm not comfortable, if I feel like, I'm

(30:43):
gonna get help.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
And it's so much different than what it used to be.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Yeah, there was a time as teenagers or as kids,
it's like you'd be seen not heard. You know, it's
very much like we don't tell our business, We don't
talk about that. Are not talking about their own feelings,
let alone asking you how do you feel?

Speaker 5 (30:58):
Or I alone paying somebody.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
But you better come talk to me, and you better
not tell none of your friends about this, this and that.
And also just like imagining that the big emotions of
grief that you're feeling, but without the language you don't
like if you don't even hear your mom or your dad,
or you don't even have the space to discuss or
communicate about certain about feelings. You can't even vocalize or
verbalize how you're actually feeling to anyone anyway. So your

(31:24):
your your default is to suppress. You know, you're just like,
I'm feeling these feelings, but let me do this other
thing instead. Like you said, it was like your drug.
So you're diving into something else.

Speaker 6 (31:33):
But thankfully for me, you know, I have friends and
no people that in dealing with all of that, they
turned to drugs, and they turned to alcohol, they turned
to overeating and all those things.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
And so people are like, well, well, thankfully you turned
to sport.

Speaker 6 (31:49):
Yes, and no, right, it's still an unhealthy way of coping, right,
it's still even even to this day addictive. Right, Like
when I deal with stuff, I go and work out. Yeah, right,
instead of sitting down and getting through it.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Right, it's my outlet.

Speaker 6 (32:09):
And so yeah, you see people see on the success side,
oh like that they don't know the demons you know
that constantly.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Are there because it's not toxic.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, well they think it's not.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
I mean, that's so interesting, like using something that people
say to dive into when you're having.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
Something healthy as your outlet.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, they'll say, google extra exercise over a.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Walk a run, and you're like, that's all I ever did.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Cry and scream and talk about it, but you know,
all right, I'll go the treadmill.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I mean, a good.

Speaker 6 (32:42):
Balance of all of it is is the healthiest way,
you know, And I'm grateful that I never turned to
the bottle, right or.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Do what we do?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Been the fastest woman in the world two thousand in four,
two thousand and three.

Speaker 4 (33:07):
Don't go to that, don't go to that reefer.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Look at these legs.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Okay, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I well, you know, I think too, like when we
talk when we think about like toxic traits or not
toxic trait, but like using these type of healthy things
for toxicity or not to avoid yourself essentially, like when
was the point in your career where you couldn't run anymore,
Like where you couldn't run away from your demons and

(33:43):
what and and maybe you're still dealing with that because
I think it's a lifelong Dirney, because I know we are.
We are all still evolving and working towards that But
was there like a moment where you were like, I
can't run anymore. I have to face these things.

Speaker 6 (33:55):
Yeah, you know, it's it certainly was during some of
the hard which we'll get to, I'm sure here in
a little bit. But that was, you know, after the
Sydney Games, and I had so much success, and I was,
you know, America's Golden child and on the cover of
every magazine, and and you know, when shit hit the fan,

(34:15):
you know, in two thousand and seven, in two thousand
and eight, and I, you know, shared with the world
that I had made some poor choices and I had
lied about, you know, being given performance enhancing drugs. And
the consequence was six months incarceration, forty nine days really
in solitary confinement.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
Oh my.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
But you know, whenever I.

Speaker 6 (34:35):
Share that, people's reaction is similar, but I always like
to follow up.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
I say it was also a blessing.

Speaker 6 (34:43):
And the reason is because it forced me want no
pun intended to slow my ass down and to assess
figure out who I was, not who I was Mary
Jones the track and Feel star, right, but who are
you at the core? And I think so many young
athletes and entertainers like like you you define who you

(35:07):
are by what you do, which is sad. And that
time locked up away from everything that I understood was real, like, Okay,
you're not just a sprinter, right, Like, you're so much more.
Like you have this this powerful personality and this ability

(35:29):
to connect with people and make people feel like special.
And how can you kind of harness that in your
next season of life? And why had you made certain
choices and you know, touching on daddy issues and mommy
issues and all of that, and saying yourself, all right,
you're here, right and sure like in regards to the

(35:55):
world and reputation, there will be a good amount of rebuilding.
You're here, you have a mom who still loves you
and supports you, and a family that's tight, and.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
You're gonna be okay. And you're gonna be okay.

Speaker 6 (36:07):
And I knew the moment after I pled guilty in
the judge handed down his like this crazy sentence, which
was so far, so far from what we anticipated, it
was going.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
To be more severe.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Correct.

Speaker 6 (36:26):
So when I pled guilty, what generally happens is the
court will do an investigation of the charge and the offense,
and the court usually will recommend a sentence to the
judge based off of it all right, like is this.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Person need to be locked up?

Speaker 6 (36:43):
Or can they potentially serve the community by doing probation?
All that, and my recommendation from the court was probation, like,
hey speak to young people, right, like we think that.
And three hours later into this sentencing, I'm having to
look at my attorneys left and right.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I'm like, did I did I hear?

Speaker 4 (37:06):
Right?

Speaker 5 (37:06):
Did he say six months?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
And just being in shock.

Speaker 5 (37:11):
I'd never been around anybody who had been to prison.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I don't know anybody.

Speaker 6 (37:16):
My only exposure to like prison life was that show
that used to be on call, Locked Up.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
A lot of show, right.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
I probably shouldn't have been so into it because that
became my face. But after the sentencing, walking down the
steps there in New York and thousands of cameras, and
I made the decision that so many people had embraced
me in my highest of moments, right, that it was
only right to speak. I could have easily just like disappeared,

(37:49):
but I said no, I'm gonna speak. I'm gonna make
my apology to the world that I'd let so many
people down. But I knew that it was gonna all
be okay, because there was one hand on my shoulder
and that was my mama's right and she was patting
me on the back.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
She was whispering in my ear, saying, baby, you'd be okay.

Speaker 6 (38:07):
And in those moments, even locked up forty nine days
by myself, you know, twenty three out of twenty four
hours a day, locked up, sometimes all day when the
guards don't want to take you out there. There were
some days from like wait, you know, let's cat, but
the majority of the days are like you got this,

(38:28):
you got this, Your your future is going to be okay.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Wow. How old were you at that time?

Speaker 6 (38:37):
I was still in my twenties right, which is which
is crazy when people are so critical and I get it.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Right like everybody like I was. I was.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I was that.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Person to so many people.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
But you're human, your kid and that you're a human
and your kid.

Speaker 5 (38:55):
And now at almost fifty, I'll turn fifty in a
few months.

Speaker 6 (38:59):
When occasionally you'll get the people who try to come
at me.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
I'm like, dude, right, you're talking about it, like, let's put.

Speaker 6 (39:06):
A lens on your twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven,
can we do that?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Well?

Speaker 1 (39:11):
I mean listening, thank you for sharing. And I'm just
thinking about this golden because when you were running track
and during that time, it was literally like a golden
era of track and field for you, and then even
like the men that were running as well, it was
just like this beautiful era. There was so much hope
and there was so much You're bringing so much pride,

(39:34):
especially to black people, and you kind of became the
poster child not kind of, you were like the poster
child to like success. This woman is like beating all
these records and that is such an an unimaginable amount
of pressure. Also on top of you're already suppression and

(39:56):
need to be successful, and you already knew that you
wanted to achieve a certain level of s success and
you are dedicated to it. And I'm sure your coaches
are not like, hey, maybe you just should like sit
down for a second, and like they're not checking on
your mental health there. They want to be out there
and do what you need to do, so no one's
really checking on you, perap. I mean, I'm assuming and.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
I also had made the decision. I mean, I'm just
out of teenage years. Success came my way so fast,
so much money, right, and.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
You know you, you.

Speaker 6 (40:28):
Start surrounding yourself. And I've shared this a lot of
times with like a yes crowd, Yeah right, these are
people who are gonna.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
Patch you on the back. Oh you want to make this, Yes,
that's a good decision.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yes, an outfit, yes.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
Right.

Speaker 6 (40:43):
And I start to start to distance myself and pull
away from the people who are gonna give it, keep it,
to keep it real with right, my brother, my my family, right,
my close friends. I started to distance myself from them
because I'm like.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
Hey, I'm I'm the star. I'm the star.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Right.

Speaker 6 (41:00):
And that, right, is what happens to a lot of
young people who find success early on. I equated to
being caught in a wave, and it takes you further
and further out awave from reality.

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Right.

Speaker 6 (41:14):
And the reason that I go back to saying that
that time, that hard time, was such a blessing because
it forced me to come back to shore, forced me
to plant my feet in the sand and say, hold
the hell up a second, it's time to get rid
of some people in your life, right, And which is hard, right, Like,
we're also a culture that's that's very loyal, right, And

(41:36):
and there you stick with you know, you gotta stick
with our own and sometimes you got to go through
that list and you got to chop, you got to chop.
And I found though that by you know, admitting to
certain things and losing so much, that it was naturally
chopped because so many of those hang arounders, right, we're like, oh,

(41:58):
there's nothing she could do for us, nap, right, right.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Right, which was I'm thankful for, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
But during the time where you were at, you know,
like in right before the Sydney Olympics and your your
husband was.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Your coach, correct, No, No, it wasn't my coach.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Oh, but he was involved someone I'm sure he was
involved in he was an athlete as well. Well, what
do you think what was the moment in which you
said I because I know I remember watching your interview
on OPRAH where you said you could have won without
the performance enhancing drugs. What was the moment in which
you said, I'm going to take these like why why?
If you already knew that?

Speaker 6 (42:34):
Well to understand get a little context of it all.
During that time, there was just a lot of athletes
in the news and performance enhancing drugs, right, there was
also a need, especially for the elite athlete to make
sure that whatever nutritional supplements were taking weren't tainted.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Right.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
You go into a GNC, for example, you don't know
how they prepared it, right. And then, as the most
tested athlete in the world, the most tested drug tested
athlete in the world during that time, I needed to
ensure that my stuff that I was taking wasn't tainted.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
I believe in a drug free sport. I'm a natural athlete.

Speaker 6 (43:14):
I know that I'm talented enough to win, so I
am the advice of my team hired a company to
make sure that the supplements that I was taking were
clear and clean.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Right.

Speaker 6 (43:28):
And again, you know, I'm whatever age I am in
my twenties, and you everybody has their role on.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
My team, right. You have the messeuse, you have the coach,
you have.

Speaker 6 (43:36):
The manager, you have all this and you kind of
just say, this is what I want, I will pay
for it.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Make sure that these are natural supplements, and you trust.

Speaker 6 (43:44):
Trust right Like I don't have a biology degree, right, Like,
I'm not testing everything that and.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
I am again tested every week and.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
There's there's no red flags.

Speaker 6 (43:58):
So I am assuming that everything that I being given
that I'm told is this is drug.

Speaker 5 (44:03):
Free and I'm passing every test.

Speaker 6 (44:06):
And it didn't come to my realization that I had
been taking a performance enhancing drug until fast forward to
two thousand and seven and federal investigators call me in
because they want to ask me some questions. Right, And
by that point, of.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Course, I had seven years after the fast right.

Speaker 6 (44:27):
So and so I tell my attorneys like, yeah, I
have nothing to hide, Let's go in. I've been tested,
I've been asked about it. Let's go in, and let's
just kind of like put an end to this.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
And so at this point, since two thousand you've you've
stood on your ground of I did not take Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
I'm running.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
I'm still the fastest woman in the world.

Speaker 6 (44:47):
And I had made a decision note to distance myself
from certain coaches that I was just naturally.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I had had my first child.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
And I didn't think that it was going in the
right direction. And so by this point I had a
new coach, a new team went in there in two
thousand and seven, and they started asking me the questions
and we could tell very quickly that it wasn't just
a hey, it was more like, we think you know
a lot more than what you're telling us. By the
time the interview wrapped up, they decided to pull something

(45:19):
out of their briefcase and kind of like slap it
on the table and like push it towards me. And
I immediately could tell it was a liquid and a
little vial, that it was something that I had been
taking prior to the two Thousand Games under the disguise
I think of that it was something else, and I
in that moment and I make it all. I guess

(45:39):
a little bit more dramatic, but literally it was like
twenty seconds.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
I made the decision to say, oh, shoot, this is
what it is.

Speaker 6 (45:48):
Regardless of if I knew what it was or not,
if I admit to having taken it. Everything that I've
dreamt of that nine year old little girl, my mom
traveling up here to the night it states for a
better life for her family, like the fortune, the fame,
everything would be questioned and would disappear. So in that

(46:09):
short amount of time, I made the decision to lie,
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
I'd never taken it before. By that point they called it.
They were like, we're done.

Speaker 6 (46:19):
The issue And many people don't understand is that prior
to that meeting with them because I had nothing to hide, right,
So federal investigators shared with my attorneys, Hey, we're going
to have her sign what's called a Queen for a
Day letter.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
They still have it.

Speaker 6 (46:33):
It's under the disguise of they call it something else,
but in essence, what it is is if they believe
that they need information from you. It could be for
any a murder, a theft, whatever. You sign this letter
and you say you will tell the truth no matter
what it is, and we will not and cannot prosecute you,
prosecute you, So.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
You're under oath but in a way, but it's not
any way, right, But if you sign it and then
you lie, that's where the shit hits the fan.

Speaker 6 (47:05):
And I signed the letter prior again nothing to hide.
I lied in it, and then they were able to
use that against me. But you know, you fast forward
a few years and had my you know, because the
timeline is weird. Two thousand and seven is when I
decided to tell the world that I had lied and

(47:27):
all that, But two thousand and three was actually when
they called me in, right, so we had said two
thousand and seven, it was actually two thousand and three
that was the year my first son was born.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
That is, I'm a mom. That is important because you
all know when you become a.

Speaker 6 (47:40):
Parent, like things shift and you start to realize like
your lifestyle or what you're doing or saying or not
doing not saying can and will affect them someday. And
I had my son and I'm telling him, you know,
you know, when you make more choices, you know, you
got to come and tell Mom and we'll deal with
the consequences.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
And the sooner you tell me, the better, the better.

Speaker 6 (48:02):
And I'm just a hypocrite, right because I'm holding onto
this lie and I'm running and I'm successful, but it's
just heavy. Two thousand and seven, my second son was born,
and at that point it was just I mean, I'm
still competing, I'm still doing well.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
It's just the burden of it is too much.

Speaker 6 (48:21):
And I decided to you know, I'm going to just
deal with the consequences whatever.

Speaker 4 (48:25):
So so had you never said admitted it, then what
would not nothing have had happened? Or was it just
as personal like it was.

Speaker 6 (48:31):
Just I mean, I was at that point still very
heavily tested every week. By that point, I hadn't taken
it since two thousand and you realize, right once I realized,
But yeah, I mean, nothing would have I don't know.
I really don't know what the consequences if I never
had said anything. But at that point, it wasn't It
wasn't even worth going down that road anymore.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Was there a.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
Reason why this company would have, under the guise of
everything as natural, been given in this fucking Olympian this
drug without your knowledge?

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Well, I mean it wasn't.

Speaker 6 (49:06):
There were a lot of athletes that had hired this
particular company.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
And the more.

Speaker 6 (49:12):
Success the athletes, and we're talking about athletes, the elite
of many different sports, right, the more success the athlete has,
the more prominence this company will will become.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
This sounds like they did they take any accountability for
what happened, or you know, they.

Speaker 5 (49:29):
Went down, they fold down.

Speaker 6 (49:33):
But I was the I was the only athlete to
have been given any prison time.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
Is that because you're black?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Well, I think I think that there.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
I think there were a lot of other athletes of color.

Speaker 4 (49:43):
I think that one would have to go to prison.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
They wanted to make an example of.

Speaker 6 (49:47):
It, and that's what the judge also said. The judge,
he said, we're going to set a precedent.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Yeah, they wanted to make an example of it.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:54):
It wasn't until years later that I also found out
that he was this particular judge was up for re election. Right,
it was the biggest case during that time, right, so
he high profile. But you know, you it was the
decision that needed to be made. It was it was
the right decision. It was one that I was fearful

(50:17):
of having to. You know, have kids in this world
who would would know my story and and how that
would all play out and manifest And I think I've
done a fairly good job in raising them in a
way that they understand the truth and they can follow
the timeline.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
And so to fast forward a little bit to kind of.

Speaker 6 (50:39):
Where I'm at now and the decision I've made, because
I made the conscious decision once it all went down
to step back, right like after I was released, I
needed to be present for them.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I needed to step away from the spotlight.

Speaker 6 (50:53):
When I was released from prison, though I still had
an aching.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
To compete to participate in sport.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Track was off the table.

Speaker 6 (51:03):
But as you all know, I played basketball and I
also had on my bucket list to play professionally, So
I made a WNBA team and I played.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
For a few seasons.

Speaker 6 (51:14):
And I did that so that my kids can when
they're old enough to follow the trajectory of my career
in my life. And they were going to see the
success early on, and then they were going to see
the hard times and the bad decisions and for me
just to disappear and never would send. I think and

(51:37):
thought a message to them that you know, you make
things happen in life and you just.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Stay there back it up. So I said, you know what, No,
I'm putting myself back out there.

Speaker 6 (51:46):
I'm going to attempt to make a professional basketball team.
Right after all of this, I hadn't actually played basketball
competitively and over a decade because I was running and competing.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I made a WNBA team to.

Speaker 6 (51:59):
This day, the oldest rookie in the WNBA. And I
was able to like have my boys at that point,
my daughter had she had just born, was born, but
like they could be in there so they.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
Can remember what experience other than them.

Speaker 6 (52:16):
And so after I decided to step away from sport altogether,
I then really needed to take another step back. No,
it's my kid's time, Like I need to be present
for them.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Not knowing if if.

Speaker 6 (52:29):
I was gonna put myself ever back out into the
public eye.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
And a few years back.

Speaker 6 (52:35):
I says, it's time and what is it time for
Marian It's time for the world to see that, like.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
You don't have to stay in that place.

Speaker 6 (52:44):
And not just specifically with my story, but my story
resonates if you think, no, not everybody can relate to
being you know, you know, running fast here today, Olympic champion,
all that cover a vogue. But everybody can relate to
being knocked down in some capacity. You lose a job,
somebody dies, your relationship fails.

Speaker 5 (53:06):
You don't got any money, right, you've you've fucked up,
you went.

Speaker 6 (53:09):
To really everybody and everybody experiences that in some way.
Everybody needs to know that you don't have to stay
there and this is how you can get back up
and to be able to use my own It's it's
hard to have to be that that poster child now right,
Like I would love to stay the other poster child,
but I think this one is making even a bigger

(53:30):
impact on the world than just being able to run
fast from.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Here to there. Because only very few people can relate
to that. They might be inspired by that.

Speaker 6 (53:39):
So right, like you said, you know you loved watching me,
and that was but really seeing somebody.

Speaker 5 (53:44):
Like like the phoenix, like the rise again.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
Meaningful and it relates to everybody.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
It's you actually are become the more authentic version, whereas
the other place feels like aspirational, where now it's I
feel it's very equally as aspirational, but there's like a
groundedness in it. There's a reality, there's a relatability, there's humanity,
there's people can actually see themselves in you, whereas before
they're like, I don't know how and like it's great,

(54:12):
like I want to take a picture with her, but
but other than that.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
So that is why you asked early on in this
like how am I today or how? And that's why
I can sider here and say I'm like, I'm joyful,
right because the journey for me hasn't been easy, but
who is it easy for anybody?

Speaker 4 (54:28):
Really?

Speaker 6 (54:29):
I'm just sitting any place where I know that what
I'm doing right now is it's what it's God intended
me to be doing.

Speaker 4 (54:36):
Good. Mom's bad choices. Yeah, it's the rise, It's the
lesson that you learn from it. All the lesson that
you get to like live out loud too, you know,
like you said coming being you know, Black people, a
lot of our things are We're taught to sweep it
under the carpet and it's it's something we keep at home.
We don't talk about it hush hush, like the I
didn't come home last Like you don't tell nobody our business.

(54:58):
But when you can mess up publicly and then rise
up again publicly, it's so meaningful and it does set
the president that we have to talk about it. We
have to talk about it so that other people know
this should happens. This is real life, like everything is
not you know, butterflies and very which.

Speaker 6 (55:13):
Is what social media like exemplifies, like everybody wants to
show their best life or in social media and my
reality and one that I choose now because I'm also
at a point in my world that I'm not going
to allow my narrative to be written for me anymore
as young, right, you kind of let know like this

(55:33):
is who I am, this is what I did, but
this is where it's going.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
And there are.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
Good days and there are bad days, and folks.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
Need to see all of it.

Speaker 4 (55:44):
How is your marriage during that time, Like, I know,
you're no longer married, but like you were married when
you were got locked up, you were married and came out.
You know, how did that affect your marriage?

Speaker 6 (55:58):
It's certainly a strain, certainly a strain because I you know,
we talk about like not airing any dirty launcher, Like
I didn't even share certain things with my husband about
that time, right, And so in his defense, right, like
he entered a relationship with all without all the moving parts,

(56:19):
which is unfair, right, and something that I am saddened
that he had to partaken that. But also, you know,
you also realize things about yourself that beyond that, it
just wasn't going to work, you know, for for lots
of reasons, and one that I've shared this year and
that you know, I've kind of came out in twenty

(56:40):
twenty four and and people are like so surprised, and
why do.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
You say kicking, I don't see, it's not like a thing.

Speaker 6 (56:49):
For the ten plus years that I was away from
the public eye, like I was living my true and
authentic life, right, Like I knew for many years that I,
you know, there was an attraction to women and you know,
like guys were cool I also knew that I wanted kids, right,
like you know for that and it's not well not

(57:09):
even that's.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
That's the full truth now.

Speaker 6 (57:14):
But you also during that time you fit into a
certain stereotype like this is what you know the female
athlete should be, this is what sponsors are paying for.
It's this pretty picture, right, and you know I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
To be totally transparent.

Speaker 6 (57:31):
You know, my the culture in which I was raised
in very conservative Bellisian culture, like you know, I have
a mom, that's just not a thing, didn't support me, right,
It didn't fit in that. So again you make choices
and you just get to a point where I'm just like,
it's just as heavy. It's just time to be me.

(57:53):
And so that's when I say I came out. It's
I didn't even realize when I made the decision to
put myself back out in the pub like I in
regards to my message, that the world didn't know that
I was, you know, a queer woman of color, like
it was a I had to be reminded like like
my partner, my friends.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Were like you, the world doesn't.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
You didn't share that everyone doesn't gay.

Speaker 6 (58:19):
Everyone is funny because now you know everybody now will
come in and say, oh, I.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Knew all a long, you know how we get.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
The way he was running. I thought that I see
when you cut all your hair off, the only gays
do they.

Speaker 6 (58:37):
And so this this journey back for me, this like
second wind per se.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
It's just me living my authentic.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
Self, like I am who I am, right I do.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
I'm not at a point where I'm like I care
what they say, like this is this is who I am,
and my story is strong and powerful and I'm passionate
about it and this is my life and this is
my fa this is my world.

Speaker 4 (59:02):
Take it or leave it right. You don't have to
like me, but you can keep it moving. How did
your kids take it? Was there a moment you had
to tell them like listen, mommy's lesbian again.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
It wasn't like that coming out way.

Speaker 6 (59:12):
It was just like it was just a natural, like
after a divorce, dad. And you know, I made certain
choices to bring whom I'm bringing around them, which I'm
very cautious about. You know, there were and they're all
different ages and different understanding levels, and you kind of
figure that out along the way.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
And it wasn't any I mean it was. It was
tough because.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
It's not dad right.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
It would like who is right?

Speaker 6 (59:42):
But again it wasn't like a shock factor or anything
like I'm living with my partner now, my daughter lives
in a household.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
My kids know mom. I think there's, like.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Said, this misconception that like when when you when you
lay it on your kids, like these life choices that
you've made, If these life choices that you make are
making mom happy, the kids are going to be happy.
You know, they don't really give a fuck, like they care,
they do give a fuck. They give a fuck that
their mother is happy and that they're showing the mom
is showing up for them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
And so I think that never and of course that
never changed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
And I think like for the moms listening, who are
you know, battling with, whether that's their sexuality, whether that's
you know, leaving dad, whether that's career changing, location changing.
And that's even a message for me myself too, is
like we're always so concerned about if we're going to
fuck up our kids, and the way we surely fuck
up our kids is not being ourselves or.

Speaker 6 (01:00:36):
Hiding hiding trauma, right, Like that's another thing that you know,
we in our culture, like you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Don't want to share that you're going through.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
You're strong, everything's fine, and your kids feeal you. They
came from you. Then that energetic and bilical cord is real.

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
My daughter, I could get in the car and just
having a rough day.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
And I won't say anything.

Speaker 6 (01:00:57):
She's like, she'll get from school, She's like, what's wrong
with you? Yes, I'm like no, I'm good to stop.
So she will literally turn down the music and say
what happened today?

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Right?

Speaker 6 (01:01:07):
So to think that just because you don't say it
or you don't show it right, like they don't know, and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Then that's it's a confusing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
Time for them anyway, and you're intelligence.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
Yeah, yeah, they're already hormonal and I'm mad for no reason.
And now you're going to sit up there and lie
in my face. And just like you tell your kids,
you can't lie to me, I know everything before it happens.
It's very much the same way. Your kid is super
intelligent and intuitive, mostly because they're closer to God the
younger that they are, and second of all, because they
came from you and they know you. And I really

(01:01:40):
I really abide by that in my adulthood, Like I'm
not going to insult my child's intelligence because I remember
when my parents do that shit to me coming out
the grage, smelling like weed, Like what the hell y'all
doing in there? Nothing you lying, you know, And it's
just like I don't ever want to have a relationship
where I'm insulting because I think it's like in life
and adulthood, especially with women, people are going to try
and confuse you, going to try and take you further

(01:02:01):
and further away from your intuition. I am not going
to contribute to your confusion. I'm going to tell you
when you're right. I'm going to tell you when you're wrong,
and like I'm going to respect you the same way
that I expect you respect me, because it's a two
way street. And I think a lot of times and
especially like things are only weird when we make them weird.
I'm like, Mom's gay, you know, Like why are you
doing all that? You know what I mean. It's just

(01:02:22):
like especially the time now is like everybody is, you know,
and they're like, yeah, Jenny has.

Speaker 6 (01:02:28):
You know for moms, Jenny's mom is Polly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Yeah, you know, they're going to commune like who, like,
you know, what I mean, like our mom's not binary,
they're they you know, like the kids are so more
further informed than we were, Like there's it's so much
more like present in media and we can't hide it,
so it's like we might as well talk about it.
And I always thinks like your happiness as a mother,
as a parent is so important that like denying yourself

(01:02:56):
the truth is essentially teaching your kid how to lie.
If I'm not being myself, I'm telling you that you
also have to shift in order to be accepted and
to be loved, and to be further and further away
from the authenticity. And that's even from your own recommendation.
Like if you don't want your kid to be this
or that, you're essentially telling your kid hide and be

(01:03:17):
something different than what God made you. And I think
that's such a terrible message, and it's such a confusing
message as you have kids going off into adulthood trying
to figure their shit out already, like don't be an
oppressor in the space that's already going to be extremely
difficult to kind of like get your two feet. So
I think that's really, you know, I'm really I'm so

(01:03:42):
honored to hear your story, to share this time with
you and to hear how you've overcome and the things
that you've been through and the success that you've had
while maintaining yourself, you know, and your authenticity and having
the time to sit back and be like, let me shift,
let me course correct, because a lot of people don't
have the wherewithal to do that, and they try to
stay within this you know, whatever is likable and lovable

(01:04:04):
for the public, but you know, at the end of
the day, you have to live with yourself. You have
to go to sleep at night, you have to love
that shit. And so I appreciate this story and like
hearing from you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, it's same. I think that, like, as women, we
carry so much shame, and it seemed it seems like
the world, maybe not I want to put it all
in the world, but the world was trying to throw
you away, then keep you down and use everything to
just suppress all of the accomplishments that you've had. And

(01:04:35):
I'm just so inspired by your journey to say no,
I'm not done and like you're not going to put
me away.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
You're not going to put me in that box.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I think that like more women
need to to abide by that rule and realize that
there's always a second chance, there's always a second wind.
I love the name of your podcast, second Wind, Second Wind,
and I I definitely when I read when I was
when I read the name of the podcast, and I realized, oh, yeah,

(01:05:05):
I understand this because as my dad being a professional
athlete and him being one of the best in his
in the career, he still holds a record that has
never been broken, and I think that there's a lot
of pressure that people try to put on him and
he'd be like whatever, Like I don't even watch football,
and like also like this this idea that a lot

(01:05:28):
of athletes, they become so locked into their identity as
an athlete that their second win some oft times never
comes because they're stuck here. They don't know what to
do after after that, after pouring so much time, so
much energy, everything, and you and.

Speaker 6 (01:05:45):
You realize that it doesn't matter who you are. And me,
he could be an everyday show.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
I mean, oh, you could be a doctor. That's like
I want to be a hola hooper.

Speaker 6 (01:05:54):
And that's I mean in regards to my podcast, that's
that's what it is like it's entertainers and people that
you know, but it's also like everyday people.

Speaker 5 (01:06:01):
That have hit success in life, whatever success looks like.
I mean, you could be the deacon in your church.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
And you mess up right and you lose it all,
and then you just make the decision to you know what,
like it doesn't have to end here, Like I don't
have to stay stuck in my past, and it's and
you know it's my affirmation. We will get to that,
but like it's you know, your your setbacks in life.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Can be like a catalyst for something even bigger.

Speaker 6 (01:06:29):
It could be a catalyst for like your your big
comeback And people say, you know why come back? You
know why play in the w NBA, right Because again,
like for me, my kids are everything and they need
I needed. I needed to be okay that I had
created a narrative so that they can.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
See it, that you're in control of it, right.

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
That I that I'm in control of it, and that
in it the world can see and need if they
need an example, Hey, it's me, yo, I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
After me, your setback in life can be the catalyst
to your comeback, your biggest comeback.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
Your cat your setback in life can be the catalyst
to your biggest comeback. Yeah, I resignate with that. I
think even with Eric and I, like we were in
a very place where we're like, we're single moms, we're
a stereotype and the statistic and like it's over, you know,
and we're just like, fuck it, We're gonna we're gonna
talk say the things, talk about dating, talk about things

(01:07:26):
that are not likable for women and mothers, and we're
gonna smoke our weed and we're gonna stay it out loud.

Speaker 6 (01:07:32):
And you're probably gonna fail at some point in it
a little bit here and there, but it's part of it.
And it's also like prepping for the failure, right, I
call it prepping for the hiccup, prepping for the roadblocks.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
Because there's going to be a road Yes, there's going
to be a hit. There's going there's no human that
exists that has not fucked up.

Speaker 6 (01:07:50):
So even in y'all's example, I mean, I'm sure you
all and have shared like the hiccups even into getting
to where you are right now. For anybody like seeing
hearing this to think that it's been smooth sailing the.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
Whole way right, that's illusional. Shit will get hard and
you will be okay. You know, Amen? Do you want
to do Tarot time?

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
Yes? Tterot time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
Of swords? Interesting? It seems like there's of sports is
It's an interesting card upright?

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
It actually represents betrayal, deception, getting away with something, acting strategically. Traditionally,
the seven of swords indicates that betrayal, deception, and trickery.
You might be trying to get away with something and
are sneaking around behind other people's backs, hoping to go undetected.
If you're lucky, you might get away with your secret intact,
but if you're unlucky, others will soon find out what

(01:08:54):
you have done, causing you shame and embarrassment. Be aware
that anytime you use cunning or deception to gain an
advantage over someone or something else, you're at risk of
being found out. Alternatively, you may be a victim of
someone else's betrayal. Others are not being candid with you,
and you may be unaware of their lives and deception.
You may trust someone who then turns out to be
running towards our own agenda. Look out for any sneaky

(01:09:16):
behavior and listen to your intuition when something does not
feel right or seems too good to be true. On
a more positive note, the Seven of Swords points out
that you need to be strategic in what you do.
You know you cannot do everything at once, nor should you. Instead,
you must prioritize what's important to you and direct your
focus and attention on the few tasks that will make
you move closer to your goal. It's the eighty twenty rule.

(01:09:37):
Twenty percent of your work will account for eighty percent
of your results, so focus on the twenty percent. You
may be able to accept some responsibilities or duties, but
not all of them at once. You may say yes
to some projects at the expense of others. At times.
The Seven of Swords suggests that you may need to
put yourself first to get what you want, even if
it means letting others down or putting others off of

(01:10:00):
towards The seven a Swords could also imply that you
are trying to escape from a situation that is not
working for you anymore, rather than dealing with it head on.
You may attempt to run away from commitment, responsibility, or love.
You may procrastinate, letting problems slip and become worse. Sometimes
you just have to face what has to be faced.

(01:10:20):
Hum you but you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
Know, but the reverse is interesting to The reverse says
you may doubt yourself and your abilities. For example, if
you have started in new business and you think to yourself,
who am I doing this? Know that this fear is talking.
Go get out of your head and trust that you
have everything that you need to make a new venture
a success. Similarly, the seven of Swords reverse can suggest
that you're deceiving yourself, trying to trick yourself into believing

(01:10:47):
something even though it is out of integrity and out
of integrity with your true self. You may attempt to
fool yourself that everything is okay when it is not.
Now is the time to get real with where you're
at and confront your situation head on. So it's just
you know, we've talked about all of those things, so
I think that was very interesting on the side as well.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming on our
show chat. This is great. Where can people find your podcast?

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
You all the things everywhere?

Speaker 6 (01:11:18):
No, you can find a second win podcast wherever you
get your podcasts, Spotify wherever that is. Of course I'm
on Instagram and TikTok.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Yeah, you're on TikTok? Can you be doing TikTok?

Speaker 6 (01:11:28):
I mean, I don't dances all over, but are you
sure you do it right now? Over?

Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
I had a guest come on the other day. She's like,
we need to do TikTok and she's like, I can
find one. In four seconds she went, this is the dance.
I was like, oh my god, is that how easy
it is? I'm over here like searching for hours, like
which one speaks to my soul?

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Like we learned that dance about eight seconds and we
did it, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
And then when TikTok disappears, all that hard work.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Right, TikTok and go nowhere? Girl, They're not going to
let that thing go nowhere.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
It's too much money.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Well, we will make sure to link all of your
links in this episode description, So make sure you check
out Marion Jones and make sure you check us out.
Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Like we said
at the beginning of the show, if you didn't listen, bitch,
now is the time I say bitch in the most
loving way, loving living way, but I really do mean it.
And also make sure you follow the Good Vibe Retreat.

(01:12:19):
We have three retreats this year that are still available.
All the other ones are sold out, and these ones
are almost sold out too, so make sure you check
out the Good Vibe Retreat. We have a couple's retreat
in June, and then we have two women's retreats in
Costa Rica in July and August. And I would love
to see there and take care of you anyway. I
love you, love you bye please.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
Yeah, I'm living been so good? Can't you tell I
went through a drought. That's until I find a well
may my have been known art? I used to be
broken tail, now got the blues dance and might beyond,
say Jazell throat shot pop and this cower in our voices,
patriarch and catch it in the box.

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
So what'sploids?

Speaker 5 (01:12:57):
Women put the p and power, So what's the pointless?

Speaker 6 (01:12:59):
Say?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Want me to be good?

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
So I make bad choice?

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Bad mom, not a bad mom, but a bad mom.
It he's in on the cannabus in their bathbon walked
in Barcel's cap and I blew his cat boll hop dog.
Now I'm immune to the cat called Herbie and the
waisted straight to it like a dollar sign. Mother, rent
the lover, when too it looks like a water summer
where you're rent the winter essential will when the summertime.
I do what doll ain't no one that needs to

(01:13:22):
run it by

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Erica Dickerson

Jamilah Mapp

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