November 10, 2025 • 66 mins
This week, Granger sits down with Mike Cheon, a South Korean missionary whose life and faith have taken him from Seoul to the mountains of Afghanistan, and now to church planting in Canada. Together, they talk about what’s being called an “Islamic invasion” and why fear often drives the way Christians view immigration and Islam. But Mike offers a radically different perspective — one that sees these moments not as threats, but as opportunities for the gospel.
Through powerful stories of his years living among Afghan families, the loss and near loss of his own children, and the cries of a mother mourning her baby in the rubble of war, Mike reminds us of what it means to see every person as made in the image of God. He shares how lament and worship have opened doors in places where sermons never could, and how the church’s response to suffering can be its greatest witness.
It’s a moving conversation about faith without fear, compassion over politics, and what it truly means to love our neighbors — even those we’ve been taught to fear.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So there's been a lot of discussions lately on social media,
especially in Christian circles, that there is an evasion coming,
an invasion of our nation here, and that is what
people are calling the Islamic invasion. Is this real? Is
this is this fiction? Is this something we should be
(00:20):
worried about. Let's discuss in today's show. So I'm so
excited about this discussion today. It's it's really connected a
little bit to last week's episode. We were talking basically
(00:44):
in Christian nationalism and and you it's hard today to
talk about Christian nationalism in America without talking about Islam.
And then there is more and more a fear of Islam,
especially from Christian circles, I would argue, especially from nominal
(01:05):
Christian circles. Sure they think they think. I like my life,
it's very comfortable. I like my my the school that
my kids go to, and I like my church, and
I like my grocery store. And I don't want to
see Muslims coming in and bringing their ideas and they're
a culture and pushing us out. You know, we see
(01:26):
that around the world. And so that's that's kind of
a flash reaction, a knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Especially when you have the governor of the most populous
state in the mayor, which is mayor a governor, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's it's mayor. And as we as we record this today,
the elections today, So by the time this comes out,
we will know whether the mayor of New York City
is a Muslim.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, that's right, and predicted for a while now that
he would win. Yeah, so what that would mean.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
If we are connecting this to last week's podcast, I
I typically will make the more unpopular argument that this
is actually an opportunity for us because we see people
that are in the image of God, that are that
are lacking Jesus, that that need to hear the Gospel,
(02:20):
and a lot of us have gotten on airplanes and
gone a long way to give a message to people
that need Jesus. And yet here there's an opportunity of
this coming to us, which brings us to our guest.
We have a very different guest for us, and I'm
so excited about this. Mike Chun is with us, and
(02:40):
I've tried to your wife, Sunday's here, My brother Aaron
is back here too from church, and I've tried to
describe to tell Aaron and other people about you, and
even ant Man and so let me just say it.
You are a South Korean. Yep, that's that's lived for
(03:03):
years in Afghanistan with a heart for the Afghan people.
And yet you currently live in Canada. And right now
you're with us here in Texas.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yes, God, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So you you, you and your and your lovely wife
have have been spending a night in our barn. We
had dinner last night with our family, and and oh
there's another there's another component to how I describe you.
And we met on zoom while you were in Greece,
yes right, Yes, your South Korea with a heart for
(03:37):
the Afghan people living in Canada. That we met while
you were.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
In Greece, yes right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And we had a lovely dinner last night, and and
I was able to hear even more of your story
after our connection in Greece.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Please tell me you fit in Texas barbecue.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
No, it was actually more authentic than that. We live
in a German and so Zion Lutheran church that's just
right down the road, the Lutheran Church. Once a year,
they serve a a sausage, you know, like a brought meal.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
So that's really lovely.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
You know, uh, German food in Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Maybe we'll try to get Mexican food tonight. They don't
have that in Toronto. It's good.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Uh no, we have more kind of they we have
more Indian food and les and yeah. So yeah, that
sounds great.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I got to know more of your story yes
yesterday and and then I found out that you're also
Lord Willing planting a church in Toronto or outside of Toronto.
What's the name of the town again, Kitchener Waterloo. Kitchener
Waterloo about an hour outside of Toronto. When you're planning
(04:51):
a church as a pastor, but it's going to be
an Afghan church. Yes, So.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
After the government collapse in Afghanistan, translators and also Afghans
who worked for Canadian government was evacuated and then along
with their family members, they settled in my area three
thousand Afghans, but there was no Afghan church, and Sanny
(05:22):
and I have been in prayer and then we thought, okay,
it's now our turn to give it a try to
reach them out.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you know what that is. These two guys here
are from Oklahoma. If tornadoes you know, and when people
see tornadoes, they flee, except for a very small group
of people. The storm hunters will go into the tornado
to capture it, to test it, to study it, yes,
and to protect others. That's what you're doing. This so
(05:53):
called Islamic invasion is coming, and you and your wife
say we're going into it. We're going into it because
we love these people and that is an incredible.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Muslims or are they believers?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Oh, they're Muslims. They're Muslims by the way, you know,
the baseline should be clear. They had no chance to
consider different options from.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
A to z.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
As they were born, you know, like family name, they
got the identity as a Muslim. So when sometimes we
study Quran to reach them out and then we are,
you know, surprised. We were surprised. They do most of
the time, they do not know about their religious just book,
(06:43):
not like us, because the Quran has written in classical
Arabic and now we are talking about the Persians. Persians
are not Arabs, so without translation, they cannot understand their
own religious book. Well, like you a family name, you know,
you have no option, uh, you know, you were just
(07:05):
born in a family. And then they say, oh, we
are Muslim, Okay, So many times, you know, they feel
like they love their community and they love their family members.
So like you know, many times, we have three children,
so you know, Dave, Josh, Sarah, they grew up like
(07:26):
my father is one of the most strongest men in
this planet. My mother is the most beautiful lady in
this planet. So many times we see similar kind of
dynamic from the Muslim community. So their religious identity is
just given like a family name. So at least we
(07:47):
could we have to offer them there are some other
way around identity.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, yes, that's so good, and we talked about this yesterday.
This I'm asuming because your story is incredible and I
want to get to some really key moments of it.
But but kind of that, there's a thread that goes
through your story, and it's God's providence. God's providence in
one way, it is one way that you think through
it a lot, is that you were born in South
(08:18):
Korea to Christian parents. You had no say in that,
you had no choice in that. And there are people
born into a Muslim home in Afghanistan they have no
say in that, they have no choice in that. And
you've seen that play out in a way where you
your heart has been stirred, and you thought, because I have,
(08:42):
I am responsible to share, to give because what I
have wasn't earned, No, it was it was inherited, and
I didn't. I didn't. This is this is not something
that I could could should hang onto because it's not mine.
It's not mine to hold onto. No, it's mine to share.
(09:05):
That's that's kind of me and a mindset that has
driven you. I don't even know from your store. I
don't even know why you developed a heart for the
Afghan people. Why did you? What happened?
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I grew up in South Korean church back in nineties.
Discipleship training was really active, and you know, I believe
God built me, created me as a musician. I love
to play, you know, guitar and sing. And then of
course I grew up in the worship team and later
(09:41):
I found or we are called to share the gospel.
It doesn't have to be pastor so you know, even.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Though even though you're seminary trained, no, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah, everyone every single believer, so we are cooled to
share the gospel. Yeah, and God is invisible, but we
are we should be the visible evidence to prove God
is alive in wherever we are. And uh so when
I reached there, I realized, okay, I need to share
(10:14):
the gospel. Then what can I do? I'm a musician
and love to play, you know, two more a rock band.
And then I wrote a couple of Christian world view background,
did pop song and then one of my music hit
the K pop charts in back in nineteen ninety nine arts. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, So I told them that Americans are obsessed with Koreans,
you know, because of squid games, and that's right.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah yeah. So now they say that era as a
capap classic. So however I have a classic. Yeah. However,
at the time, you know, I got better income and
the better influence. I said, yes, this is the thing
I've been waiting for the Lord. This is so beautiful.
By the way, I got deeper questions. Is this what
(11:09):
god glory looks like in my life? Better income or
better influence or is that anything much deeper beyond my imagination?
So when Sunny and I opened up all the option
to the Lord and the weapon in prayer, and then
God led us into Central Asia because we knew some
(11:33):
Christian workers in Central Asia. And then they invited us
as a worship leader and Christian musician. So church planting
is really active. And then there are many worship teams,
but they need some kind of mentor and instructors.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So what year is this when you moved to the year.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Nineteen two thousand, two thousand and one, two thousand and
one was about time of the September eleventh.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, yes, so yeah, that's what I was wondering because
it must have been difficult then.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Uh huh. Yeah, there were some tensions, but you know
when we connected with the local believers in Uzbekistan and Kajakstan,
we experienced small bit of heaven. So you know, we
had conference and the daytime we had one on one
lesson sessions guitar, piano, and evening time we had deep
(12:25):
worship and the beautiful uh time for the world of
the Lord. So you know we take more a bit
of heaven and then we opened open up all again
every option. So Lord, we are ready to listen to
confirm us. Well, do you want us to move in
(12:50):
because you know, uh, only stage we traveled later we
found whilst uh the ministry uh is huge. So based
on the twip in my thick ever, so someone have
to move in.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Cauld I can I ask you a question? Though you
you reach the spot where you say, Lord, I'm listening now,
I've I'm I'm gonna deny myself. I'm gonna take up
my cross and I'm gonna follow you. I'm ready. But
you also have three children? Well at the time was
it two?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
At the time? Was one? Dave?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Dave? David was was your son?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ye?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And then you had Sarah?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Oh, no, Dave josh Sarah.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Joshua Joshua was next. Yes, But but you My point is,
you have this little baby. You want to start a
fig You're a young family. What stops you from saying? No?
I want to protect them. I want to I want
to build it. I want to grow in a community
where they're safe and we grow and soul maybe you know,
(13:59):
and and flourish and I'll still worship the Lord. Why
didn't you That's what everyone else does? Why didn't you
do that?
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Like Lord, I give you my heart, I give you
my soul. I leave for you alone. I sung more
than one hundred thousand times. I realized that is promise,
that it's contract between my Lord and myself. So okay,
(14:32):
you know if I armed with you know, all every
possible weapon in my hand and then guard my family
day and night.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Can I guarantee their safety? No? Even in Canada, you
know famous highway is by Highway four o one, like
in winter time, weekly basis we have casualty because of
the accident and you know there are you know, gone
viol and all kinds of things happen. So it's beyond
(15:04):
my capacity.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Wow, there's providence again. Once again it's a common theme.
You're trusting the Lord, his providence in his way. Yes,
is what you're going to trust because if you trust
your way, things happen. Yes. Did you can't control?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
No, it's beyond my control. And through my time in Afghanistan,
what we learned is once my second son Joshua got
hepatatus a, which is really critical. So charge mortality in
Afghanistan is twenty five percent, so one out of four
(15:44):
children died before their age four and that's you know,
a real challenge. And then my son Joshua was one
became one of them, so he was critical critical and
we had blood examined and then we found the research
each series, so one of my Christian worker medical doctor,
(16:06):
they were part of the hospital they have us for
the blood test. And then I asked him, so if
I take my son Joshua to Korea, do you think
there will be chance? He said, well, he's too weak.
He cannot make it through like three hour flight to
Dubai and then seven hour to Korea. No, we have
(16:28):
to wait whatever God's answer from here. And then that became,
you know, my chance to learn he's the decision maker.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Oh yeah, that was your chance to trust him fully
because you couldn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah. So it was, you know, middle of the winter.
So that night, Sonny and I share the update, and
then every evening we had family worship time. But you know,
that night we had we were running out of the songs,
you know. Uh, we were just collapsed and cried and
(17:08):
cried and cried. And then by the way, you know,
deep in the our laments worship with deep tears. God,
it was Holy Spirit just reminded me he is the
final authority of the entire universe. He never messed up
sun and moon and stars on time for a season.
So you know, if my son Joshua uh spent like
(17:34):
four years with us and then and then if God
picks our son Joshua in the this uh middle of winter.
Then I realized this is still perfect. Perhaps as a
father and mother, we are going to grieve and you know, uh,
I had to digging out the snow covered graveyard for
(17:58):
my son. Uh. So perhaps you know, if I bury
my son, I might come back to the place and
then you know, spring comes, summer comes, I might come
back and then cry and grieve and miss him. But
I realized still is part hope God's perfect picture. Whether
(18:24):
you know, if I, let's say, if I my son
Joshua lives forty years or four hundred years, could I
guarantee every moment of his life, you know, or my
life shines out God glory? Maybe not?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, So it takes great maturity to start to think
that way. Though it takes great spiritual maturity. It takes
a trusting in His word to come to that conclusion.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And a knowledge and a knowledge you understand.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I we had Sonny, and I had some kind of
you know, burning heart to find that what is the
reality of the worship that we are seeing every weekly
basis like you know, Lord, I give you my heart
and leave for you alone.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
But what happened to your son?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Because I want to go there. I want to direct
you toward what what I know you're going to do
because I love this. Yep, what happened to your son?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
So that night, you know, things were cleared between myself
and with my Lord. So I agree to live up
or the control to him. Whether whatever you decide, that
is still perfect. If you need to take my Joshua
(19:43):
in this middle of the winter, I wouldn't yelling at you.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't curse you. Still you are my
Lord and your plan is perfect and h and then
we spent our best effort whatever we were able to,
(20:07):
and Sonny took huge burden. So you know this apathetus
a in Afghanistan, the little one just drew up everything,
so non nutrition came through. But you know, let's say
after four spoons he drew up, so Tony clean up
everything and then feed him again one more scoop, one
(20:30):
more scoop. So there was kind of almost two months
of really heavy time wrestling. So we just tried our best.
From our end as a parent, we were looking for
or looking after Joshua, and after week four we found
(20:52):
David got the same symptoms. O Lord and then we
found twenty five year old one of our Korean colleague
actually passed away because of the same symptoms. So wow,
you know, we realized, wow, young man couldn't make it,
(21:13):
made it, so now can this little one can survive again?
You know, we confirmed it is your business whether you
leave Joshua with us or not. But however, you know,
God gave us hard to spend our best effort. So later,
(21:37):
after a week five and six, we so God bore
out his mercy and grace and then Joshua slowly recovered
and then David as well, so we cannot remember that winter.
So you know, however, they became a trauma trigger for us,
(22:00):
Sonny and me. Usually we cannot share this part without
you know, burst in tears. But by god grace, now
I can share without tears. So what we learned was
like some hundred three, God created us and he knows
(22:21):
we are made out of play and dust, and he
feels sympathy for us. You know, we are so weak,
but that night we were in a burst in tears
and then running out of the music. Only sound we
(22:43):
were able to live up was our tears and our cry.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But let's look at it let's look at that's good.
If you're trying to get a gift for someone that
you think has everything, how about special video message from me.
It's easy to do. Go to cameo dot com slash
Granger Smith and you put in the prompt what you
(23:06):
want me to say. I get that message on my phone.
I'll say happy birthday, happy anniversary, whatever personalized message you
want me to say to whoever you want me to
say it to. I send it to you and you
give it to them. It's pretty cool. Go to cameo
dot com slash Granger Smith. So you know we did
(23:31):
you know that Amber and I did lose a three
year old. Yeah. So sometimes the Lord does take, and
sometimes he heals. But you're referencing some one of three.
Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and all that is
within me. Bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, oh
my soul, and forget not all his benefits, who forgives
(23:56):
all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, who redeems
your life from the pit, who crowned you with steadfast
love and mercy, who satisfies you with good so that
your youth is renewed like the eagles. The Lord's work.
The Lord works righteousness and justice for all who are opposed.
(24:17):
Excuse me oppressed. I'm gonna put on my glasses. And
you and Sonny lived by these psalms. Tell me, here's
where you here's what you were talking about. For as
for man, his days are like grass. He flourishes like
(24:40):
a flower in the field. But the wind passes over it,
and it is gone in its place, and its place
knows it no more. But the steadfast love of the
Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on all who feared him.
Tell me the story of your next door neighbor in Afghanistan.
You said that the next story to you in Afghanistan,
(25:02):
there was a house that was yes, or it was
rebel because of bombing, because there was always war there, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I think it was like two thousand and six winter.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh and by the way, sorry, I keep that. I'm
just so obsessed with your story. You know, he's there
during Marcus the Trail Lone Survivor times. Oh, okay, so
he hears about he hears about that. There's a Chinook
that was shot down by the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Do you hear all about that?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes? Yeah, And it's because he's he's on radio.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yes, right, you're you're I was working for local TV
station as a music director.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Oh were you?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah? So we had so many you know, raw information
intels and then oh I found wow, shut down. I
served in the Navy for twenty half years in South Korea. Okay,
so you know I have deep heart for the military
person but oh lord, you know, such a huge loaths
and casualty. And then later I've heard, you know, one
(26:01):
Pashton village protect one of the servicemen.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
There's one man still alive and he's in a village. Wow,
he's protected by the villagers. Yeah, in Afghan So.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You hear it from that side over there, while that
we don't hear about until everything's done.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
But the story, the other story is that your next
door neighbor, yes, destroyed by bombs. So other people began
to move into the rubble to live because of the
poverty that they were just living in a blown out house. Yeah,
tell that story of what you heard one night.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yep, So I think it was two thousand and six. Again,
it was winter time at midnight. I felt there was
kind of animal, you know, but it was kind of
a regidential area in Cabo called they showed block, so
there should be no animal like that, but it was,
(27:00):
you know, beyond human screaming. And then I found it
was screaming of my neighbor, the mother of more than
ten children. So actually my neighbor house was just rubble.
(27:20):
So during the civil war between mujaid In, seven different
Mujaidin groups they destroyed with each other. So before it
was mentioned like twenty rooms kind of mentioned. But after
the bombing it became just rubble. But one square remained
(27:41):
and this placed family found the shelter in that rubble.
So no running water, no sewage system, no electricity and
no heating. You know, more than ten family members, mother,
father and children from like eighty into Newboe baby. They
(28:01):
were all leap together, so we shared whatever we could.
We shared electricity with them and so on. So that night,
you know, some screaming beyond human imagination, and then I
found the mother just lost the little baby. And then
(28:26):
she was sitting on the street. I never heard her
voice before, but she was because.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
A woman doesn't speak at night in Afghanistan, I don't
hear a woman at night.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
No, yeah, you cannot hear a female voice. Nowhere in
Afghanistan anytime, anytime, but that night we heard, you know,
screaming and yelling. And then after the grunting I heard
(29:00):
she said, Akbar John to day Marnameishnawi, which means almighty one.
You never hear my cry? I was stunned. Wow, that's
from the Bible, Dutch palm got hear my cry. And
then I found, you know, her last little one suffered
(29:22):
because of the fever a couple of days, and then
that night stopped the breath. She lost up by so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
A woman, a Muslim woman, was screaming out words from
the psalms mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And then she was sitting on the street and then
slapped her faces, pour out her hair, and tear off
her clothes. And then I'm doomed one, I'm cursed one,
almighty one.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Where are you? Where are you?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Almighty one? So it was not Allah. She called that
Akbar John. Akbar means you know, the almighty one. So
for my heart, Lord, she's courting you, Lord. The mother
who just lost her baby is courting out your name.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Lord.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that moment was a turning point for him in
his ministry, not only in his in his ministry for Islam,
but in his understanding of evangelism in a culture that
is that values honor, shame, that that cannot open up
(30:39):
in any other way. A woman that would never speak
in a country that doesn't allow a woman to speak,
was crying out in a way that impacted Mike. Where
everything the Lord revealed something in your heart. Then that
there is a new way of ministry.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Yes, so that moment really engraved my borone God. They
are crying out to you right Perhaps they might be
considered as a lost child or flock out of the
barn according to the Gospel of John, but they are
(31:21):
calling out you Lord, and skip the time into twenty twenty,
I had a chance to visit a refuge camp, Maria
refugee camp in Lesbos Island in Greek territory, but right
(31:41):
in front of the Turkish shore. So we had a
conference to serve refugees. So at the time, you know,
it was flooding of refugees. So we had a conference
and then we've undered the up team to visit one
of the refuge camp so from iva look from Turkish side.
(32:06):
We paid some ticket to get some you know seat,
and then we got a nice coffee and then we
enjoyed like an hour of the very ride to the
Greek island.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's a beautiful place.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Beautiful, yeah, great vacation place. By the way, you know,
far away distance, I saw dingy boats filled with refugees.
Really yes, you know, just exactly the same human beings
like you and me. In Afghanistan. What really stunned me
(32:39):
was I'd never paid the application feel like ten thousand
dollars to get the you know, Korean skin and Korean
Christian parents. When I was born. I found you you know,
I had like good four or five generations of serious
Christian fathers, forefathers. But in Afghanistan, I found they are
(33:01):
exactly the same human being. And I paid nothing to
become Korean Christian and they paid nothing. And then found
you know, they were born in a Muslim family and
like family name identity has just keiven, Oh you're a Muslim.
So my heart was, you know burning. So I was
(33:21):
sitting on a nice favoryboat with hot coffee. They were
sitting on the dingy boat uncertainty whether it could reach
the island or not.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And these are people from Afghanistan or that have fleed
the war and the economy of Afghanistan, and they're just
trying to get to Europe. Yes, Europe doesn't want them.
Greece doesn't want them in neither this Turkey because they
want they don't want Islamic invasion. Sure, right, it sounds
(33:53):
like us, that sounds like that's down. This was only
six years five years ago.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
So when I arrived, you know, and real quick, why
are they why are they fleeing?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Why have they fled.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Like Afghans? You know, first they find shelter in Iran,
and then when the refuge permit finished or expired, they
moved to Turkey.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But they're trying to get out of the war that's
going on in Afghanistan. Yeah, correct, okay, yeah, And then
you know, like.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
During the war, you know, even like there is no
guarantee to raise your children until like fifteen twenty without
any concern because you know, there are many militias, local militias.
So one day, you know, with a couple of pickup trucks,
(34:47):
you know, worldlords came and oh I need more soldiers.
You come joined. There is no way to say no,
no choice, no choice, and you know those little boys
might be where with a suicide vest and then you know,
a brain watched for a month. As soon as you die,
you will be in heaven, so you know. And then
(35:08):
they compensate like five hundred dollars for the family, and
this is great. Martyr parents doesn't want to be part
of that story. So they left their village. And then
it doesn't matter whether I begging on the street or
eating from the food garbage. We will be out of
this mess. So they escaped the war zone conflict, and
(35:31):
then they moved to Iran. By the way, you know,
nobody welcomes refugees, so you know, when the permission expired,
they moved to Turkey and got permission. And when they realized, oh,
my refuge status will be expired in a week and
(35:54):
we are going to be deported back to Afghanistan, then
you know, they sold every everything and paved mooddlers. And
then they find a fit on the dingy boat. So
I saw them on the dingy boat, and then you
know they.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
These are dingy boats, are like these little rubber drafts basically,
and they've paid everything they own to get on that
boat to try to get to Greek, to that Greece,
the Greek island of what's the island's name, uh, Lesbos Island,
Lesbos Islands, because because that Lesbos island is another holding
(36:30):
spot yep. That then you can get to the mainland
of Greece. So they pay everything they own just to
not go back to Afghanistan frum Iran through Turkey to
get on this rubber dinghy boat.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So the dinner time we had dinner, and then suddenly
I heard the rescue choppers almost you know, blew out
our roup and and uh Christian workers who in that
area says, oh, another you know dingy boat flipped over
(37:04):
its rescue operation. Let's see what happened. And then you know,
an hour later, okay, two persons dead, drone dead in
the ocean and a star bubrus rescued. My heart was
just broken. They are just exactly the same human being
like you and me, but you know, the what it
(37:25):
welcomes them and their hometown is masked with this conflict
and tell them.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Why these dingy boats go down and people die every
day on those boats.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
At the time. Greek coast guard sometimes by purpose they
cause wave to flip over this refuge boat, dingy boat.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So they die out there and they don't have to
do anything with them on the mainland.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
And sometimes speedboat appear out of nowhere, speedboat with sometimes gone,
sometimes with spear, and then they destroy the dingy boat
to die. Clear message like you know, do not attempt,
(38:14):
don't try to cross the ocean so you will die.
So there was you know, clear message. But still people
want to try that because otherwise, you know, only option
was wait for a week and then you know, deported
back to Afghanistan. So my heart was so broken. So
(38:38):
you know, at that night I wasn't able to sleep. Lord.
Next day I supposed to let a worship session for
Afghan Muslim background, the new Christian believers. Okay, so you
know I've been in prayer for the worship session and
then so less than like twelve hours was the leader
(39:00):
worship session for them. So Lord, what do you want
me to sing with these afternoon livers? And then God
gave me uh kind of some worship lamentation worship.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But that but last night you said you you first
you started singing craising worship.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yes, so next day, you know, next day like Hudo
and Nichols Hu Nichols translated worship song from English worship song,
but I is song. Uh you have memic less memory less.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
By the way, the response was not really active, okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Just kind of looking at them, yea, not doing anything.
You know, God, y, you're you're my boyfriend, you know Jesus,
you know.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So they were not able to resonate with the worship
songs and night before, you know, while I prayed, God
reminded me that night the lady, my neighbor, lady who
cried out, akbarjon amy one, where are you? You never
hear my cry? So I wrote a lamentation worship Mighty One,
(40:22):
hear my cry. I've been cry at all night long.
I've been drawn underwater, I've been chased by enemies, I
was lost in the desert, and I was hired under
the big rock. Nobody welcomes me, but I know you
are the Almighty One. Still I'm here for your help,
(40:44):
the rescue me, save me.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
The old woe do I am mouto besh.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Ay?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Who do whoa.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Create model.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Now?
Speaker 4 (41:15):
So I borrowed melody from the kind of a Courregorian chant,
which is actually an original form of the Azan in
the Islamic community. So there was borrowed from the early churches.
So I borrowed those melodies and then I played this
(41:36):
lamentation worship with Afghan traditional musical instrument named Afghan rubob.
And then I saw, you know, when we had the
worship possession, I saw Afghan Muslim background doo believers like
eighty we had a fellowship in a warehouse, they turned
(41:58):
into the stoneface. So you know, I was surprised. Oh Lord,
am I doing something wrong. I was really nervous. But however,
I started the song, so you know, I supposed I
supposed to finish the song. So as I continue the
worship song, I saw that the stoneface burst in tears.
(42:22):
Then I realized, oh, even in this you know, so
called Christian fellowship, tension was real, uh issue, So they
don't want to inform others that he or she is crying,
so you know, they burst in tears. And then with
the stoneface, then they took out their mobile phone and
(42:44):
started to record my lamentation worship because they love it.
And then they want to keep it and they want
to keep listening this worship song. Wow, and I realized, oh,
this is a key two to reach out the wounded heart.
(43:09):
Traumatized community. They are waiting for some medicine, some healing, grace,
and that is the lamentation worship.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
So this is impactful for me too because our church
we went through the Book of Limitations. We preached through
that book, and it's often missed and Americans are like
the first in line to skip over the idea that
the that lament in the Bible was given to us
(43:46):
as a gift, as a heart posture for grieving. Oh yeah,
and that key that you're talking about is right here
in our Bible. We have it. We have it, you know.
For instance, I'm thirteen, I go to I think about
this a lot because these are ideas when when someone
is struggling and they're grieving, they're they're hurting, the Bible
(44:11):
gives you a language. Oh yeah for this. Aaron and
I have been through this a lot between us and
our lives. And there are days when you want to
to give a joyful rejoice, a happy you know, cheerful
thanks to God. But there's other times when you say, psal,
I'm thirteen, How long, o Lord, will you forget me forever?
(44:36):
How long will you hide your face from me? How
long must I take counsel in my soul, and have
sorrow in my heart all the day. How long shall
my enemy be exalted over me? Consider and answer me, O, Lord,
my God, light up my eyes lest I sleep the
sleep of death. And this is the voice of the
woman you heard in the rebble, without even knowing Christ.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
She was.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Her heart was postured for lamit churches in America, not
just Afghanistan, not just in Korea. We need the laments.
We need to view that. This is our heart language
of sorrow. This is the key you unlock. It's interesting
because your wife is pursuing a master's degree in biblical counseling.
(45:18):
You're planning a church as a pastor, you've been trained
to be a pastor, you're planning in I thought, oh, well,
will Sunny be counseling biblical counseling in the church. And
you both looked at me and said no.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Afghans don't. They don't go to counseling. Afghans don't open
up anything about their lives. Afghans don't speak the problems
because that's shameful. They don't want anybody to know. But
guess what works singing laments? Amen, that has become your
mission now.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Yes, so earlier you know we mentioned about Islamic invasion.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think no.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Otherwise, Like let's say, you know, your village somehow entangled
with the combat different militia, like seven militias. You know,
every night, different militias came and they require food and
sometimes your son and your daughter can you stay there? No,
(46:18):
it's nothing new. When you open the Bible, like Genesis
chapter forty two to forty five, you can find the
Joseph stories. So you know, one point, Joseph use that
analedge kind of you know when when he's teasing his brothers,
(46:39):
you know he put gold cups and treasures in their back. Oh,
you must despi, which means you know, that was one
of the common perspective to see others from outside. So
at the time in Egypt, they had food and security
(47:02):
and better life rest of the community, you know, so
you know, people came to Uh Joseph to get the
food to survive and community. See, it was possible. It
was popular to see that the situation with the hostality
(47:24):
are they bring harm to us or are they come
here to destroy us or steal us? So in our
generation we might have similar, especially through the media. You know,
we were kind of feed over and over the perspective
of hostility. But in Christ, you know, uh, the perspective
(47:49):
of Christ is hospitality.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Did you say that again for the people that might
want to hear that again on this podcast?
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Perspective of Christ? In Christ, what we have to where
is hospitality?
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (48:06):
You need water? Yes, I can bring a water. You
need a food, yes I can share. Still you know
to who those uh in need? Those kind of people?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
What color skin?
Speaker 4 (48:24):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well yes, what kind of language would they speak?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
They might speak like, you know, Spanish or you mean
all people, yes, everybody, Korean, Chinese and Indians. And why
are they storming into Europe and North America? Because you
have the food and they do not have and they so.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We need to keep it and build walls around us
and just we need to hoard.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Huh kick them out, kick them out? Yeah, Oh they
must be thieves and gangsters and yeah yes, so you know,
uh in the eyes of hostolity. Okay, so now we
want to build a war and then buy some weapons,
not a bad idea, and you know, some ammunitions so
(49:15):
that we'll be good just in case. Who knows. But
Christ says they don't know even you know, when they're
doing nasty stuffs. Christ said, they don't know what they
are doing. They have no idea. So in Christ, what
we have to.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Nail them to the cross. Yes, other forgive them they know.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Not what they do.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
So as Tonny and I uh lit a weekly based
this thirty minute Afghan worship session in language of Afghanistan Dari.
We invite Afghan worship leader and offer them to lead
(50:08):
worship session and we empower them. And as we continue
the ministry, sometimes we got a death threat and then
you know they really think we are Hazara tribe Afghans.
Once we were Afghans and then now we convert into
the Christianity, so they be can even more upset. And
(50:28):
then they say I'm going to you know, catch you
and then chop you guys into pieces and then kind
of stuff. But it's the same. You know, they don't
know what they are doing. And from our end, you know,
we want to keep our perspective and saying a posture
(50:52):
a little bit more space for them to get to
know Christ and get a couple of water from our
hand hands on a feat of the Christ. So Mother terrorists.
Once she said, well, God does not have hands and
feed I'm a Baptist pastor, but you know, I yeah,
(51:16):
but I think are really yeah, really well mentioned that
God doesn't have hands but ours. So you know, as
we feed them, as we serve them, they see the difference.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:31):
So when I worked in local tivy station in Afghanistan,
first or the Afghan journalists and technical people, they watched
me really carefully, and then we sometimes we had conflict,
and then they watched me how I deal with the conflict.
(51:52):
And one summer I built a recording studio and then
after months of effort, of course one guy jumped in
and then his goal was clear. He wanted to take
over the recording studio. So God gave me just peace
for heart to give him everything and step back. And
(52:13):
then after the one guy came to me said I
think you are smart guy, and then you are educated,
but your solution was totally different. I think you are
true Muslim.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
So I was done.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
So why why did he said? Well, man, I can
tell you leave in the Gotch presence every day. Your
language is totally different, and I can tell you fear
God and you I can tell you are working with
(52:51):
the God, the Creator daily basis. So you know we
are just kind of you know, fake, but you are
genuine God fear and I see God's touch in your
heart in your life. I found, you know, nobody could
(53:11):
deny the evidence. So nowadays, you know, media says or
be prepared for this invasion and how many casualties and
see their hostilities and stuff. But well in the Bible
we can find the answer. You know, it's time of femine.
(53:33):
You have the food they do not have. You know,
whenever when we reach out Afghans Muslim community, only thing
they want is better future their children. They hope my
son wouldn't be dragged into the militia for the soulside
(53:56):
bombing in Afghanistan. You know, sometimes you have no guarantee
to protect your daughter beyond age twelve. So you know, okay,
it would be better to begging on the street, so
I will go out. So they take their family and
then really literally they go to Pakistan and Iran and Turkey.
(54:22):
Actually they're sitting on the street and then begining to survive.
So now you know, last week I saw news report
forty five percent of food bank customers are Afghans. So
they need food and they need community, and whoever listened
(54:45):
to this podcast, I would like to really encourage you
to reach them out. They are here not to destroy
this community, but they want to be part of this community.
They're only desire is better future their children. One day,
you know, their children will be educated and well fit
(55:08):
in this community and contribute to society, and they have
a better future. That's only their hope and desire. By
the way, as we reject them, as we segregate them,
things are getting downward and things are getting spoiled. In London, Canada,
(55:33):
years ago, we had some kind of extremist cases. It
was funny, you know, one guys from North Africa and
other guys from Middle East, just high school graduate and
one Korean guy joined this giddy group. Okay, this Korean guy.
They had Catholic background, but they were bullied and rejected
(55:56):
in high school. And then they found oh, watch common
in US. Oh we are all bullied, so majority doesn't
accept us. Uh. So you know, they they had deep
anxiety and sorrow and angry. And then one guy had
(56:21):
a resources from the extremists, so or they went to
North Africa to be a jihadist and this Korean guy
lost in the city and then and then detained by
the local authority and then later deported back to Canada.
So when we reject and when we isolate them, things
(56:42):
are getting really downward. But I believe God sent them
to in front of us, you and me, right next
to the church. You know, we say Bible belt. Southern
Ontario is you know, Bible belt, And in a sudden
part of the US strong Bible belt, they are here
(57:04):
to listen to the gospel. So one of my crazy
suggestion is, would you like to mess up your Thanksgiving dinner?
Go to the McDonald's or on the Thanksgiving evening you
can find so many immigrants who has nowhere to go.
(57:25):
Perhaps they brought their children to spend time for the evening.
Perhaps you might mess up one dinner a challenge, Yeah,
but you might earn the relationship and you might be
the witness who Christ is. They might ask you, so
(57:45):
why do you invite us? You can say you know,
I'm a follower of the Christ. It doesn't mean you know,
I'm going to change your religious background, or your even family,
or your gender or nothing. But I want to be,
you know, a friend. I want to be a neighbor,
good neighbor with you, So I know you know since
(58:10):
as a Korean, actually we are one of those families
who are sitting in the betterners for Thanksgiving evenings. So
we are a nuclear family far from our homeland. So
each time when we visit there, we see you know,
so many immigrant families from China and India and the
Middle East. They're just sitting and then spend time there,
(58:32):
while Norse American families really rejoice with a bigger family.
So I know, you know, Christmas dinner is really important,
and Thanksgiving dinner is really important. But do not fear.
Fear drive us into wrong direction, not to shine out
(58:54):
who we are. I certain in the Navy, you know
when you panicked, actually you forgot who you are once.
We had an active situation in nineteen seventy three. It
was before my time in DMZ Korea. So North American
soldiers attacked UN forces. So US military officer with Korean members,
(59:22):
so they attacked this unit. The UN team was trying
to cut down a tree for the better observation, but however,
in the North Koreans just appeared and then attacked them
with ax By the way, one of the guards. You know,
(59:43):
he was panicked as other side jumped in with the ax.
He panicked and he ran like one hundred meter and
then he found actually he has a gun. Or however,
you know that Captain Boniface already attacked with acts and
(01:00:05):
he lost his life at that moment from the attack.
So when we panic in the field with the fear,
actually we forgot who we are. We are the rock.
We are the Church, We are the light of the world,
and we are houses on the rock. Sometimes you know,
(01:00:28):
I compare that if you attack the rock with the
agg who will win act or rock. We are the
rock because we have the Gospel. So do not fear.
And if you have any like you know, immigrant background
(01:00:50):
neighbors or even Muslim neighbors, do not fear and connect
with them and then ask them what's their name and
watch their dren's name which they're you know, favorite food,
and then connected with them. And then if you are
walk with the Lord, there should be some reflection who
(01:01:16):
God is visible evidence they will see it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
And then well, if you've ever thought about going on
a on a mission trip and you haven't been able
to God's bringing them to us.
Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Now that we don't have to go anywhere to go
on a mission trip anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Like what an amazing message. And I didn't know you
were going to finish that way. It's like perfect. I mean,
it couldn't have been better timing. Continuing from last week's
podcast where we talked about where could people find you today?
If they are maybe we shouldn't have people find you
because you say things that are that you know could
(01:01:55):
get you in trouble. But where if do you have
a ministry that people could find you? That may be
the church plant that's coming in uh huh Kitchener, right.
Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Yes, we are going to church planting in Kitchener, Ontario.
And also you could reach me, Mike that chun at
O m org so you can send me an email.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
So yeah, So this here is my favor to everyone
who listened to this podcast. Prayer so weekly basis, we
send out Christian message in the form of art Afghan
worship songs into Afghanistan as a Facebook ad. So sometimes
(01:02:47):
in four days, you know, we got one hundred fifty
riches and we record one hundred and ninety five abuse,
so means more than forty thousand people watching more than
one time. I don't know if they are isolated believers
or not. But sometimes Ah, the reply says, fear Allah
(01:03:10):
and do not deceive people. So I said, praise the Lord.
He shows his very first reaction to the gospel, like
for support early stage. You know, he was ready to
kill anybody because of his you know, uh faith to
protect the faith. But by the way, you know our
(01:03:32):
God does not need protection. Of course, you know there
are law authorities enforcement systems in this country like CIA,
FBI and then RCMP in Canada. So as a civilian,
you know, we don't need to worry about too much
about it because we have the best system in the government.
(01:03:57):
What we need to do is reach them out. And Ah,
as I see this negative reply, I thank God he
shows at least one reaction to the gospel. And we
are keep praying for these guys. They feel upset means
(01:04:18):
better than ignore, and I pray you know this opportunity
became to shed the light of gospel into their life.
And then I pray, Lord inter in their life. And
then reveal who you are even nighttime when they sleep
(01:04:38):
through the dream, reveal yourself. So if you keep standing
alongside with us with prayer, I will really appreciate that.
And if you want to get prayer letter, send me
an email Mike dot Chan at om Org.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Sonny, did he miss anything? He missed a lot of things. Yes,
that's I think.
Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Not.
Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
You said one hundred and fifty views. It was one
hundred and fifty thousand. Yes, thank you, Sonny was her brother.
Thank you sincerely. You have you have blessed us with
your story and and even your presence in our house,
and so I hope that this is the beginning of
(01:05:35):
many conversations between us. And as we watch the Lord
as he unravels his providence in front of our eyes,
it's it's, it's it's the Bible says, it is marvelous
in our eyes. And so we serve a great God.
And though we were born far far distance from each other,
(01:05:57):
we are brothers and we served the same So I'm
I'm excited to stand beside you in prayer and maybe
even in another.
Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Country one of these days.
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Sure, absolutely, Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Thank you so much for hanging out with me on
this episode of the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate you being here.
If you're listening right now, go ahead and rate today's podcast.
It helps more folks find the show, and if you're
tuning in on the iHeartRadio app, you could actually set
this podcast as one of your presets, which is cool
that way. I'm just one tap away. If you're watching
on YouTube, don't forget to hit like and subscribe so
you don't miss any new episodes. And if you've got
(01:06:34):
a question you want answered right here on the show,
just email me podcast at grangersmith dot com. I'd love
to hear from you. Thanks again for being here. We'll
see you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Yee
So there's been a lot of discussions lately on social media,
especially in Christian circles, that there is an evasion coming,
an invasion of our nation here, and that is what
people are calling the Islamic invasion. Is this real? Is
this is this fiction? Is this something we should be
(00:20):
worried about. Let's discuss in today's show. So I'm so
excited about this discussion today. It's it's really connected a
little bit to last week's episode. We were talking basically
(00:44):
in Christian nationalism and and you it's hard today to
talk about Christian nationalism in America without talking about Islam.
And then there is more and more a fear of Islam,
especially from Christian circles, I would argue, especially from nominal
(01:05):
Christian circles. Sure they think they think. I like my life,
it's very comfortable. I like my my the school that
my kids go to, and I like my church, and
I like my grocery store. And I don't want to
see Muslims coming in and bringing their ideas and they're
a culture and pushing us out. You know, we see
(01:26):
that around the world. And so that's that's kind of
a flash reaction, a knee jerk reaction.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Especially when you have the governor of the most populous
state in the mayor, which is mayor a governor, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
It's it's mayor. And as we as we record this today,
the elections today, So by the time this comes out,
we will know whether the mayor of New York City
is a Muslim.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, that's right, and predicted for a while now that
he would win. Yeah, so what that would mean.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
If we are connecting this to last week's podcast, I
I typically will make the more unpopular argument that this
is actually an opportunity for us because we see people
that are in the image of God, that are that
are lacking Jesus, that that need to hear the Gospel,
(02:20):
and a lot of us have gotten on airplanes and
gone a long way to give a message to people
that need Jesus. And yet here there's an opportunity of
this coming to us, which brings us to our guest.
We have a very different guest for us, and I'm
so excited about this. Mike Chun is with us, and
(02:40):
I've tried to your wife, Sunday's here, My brother Aaron
is back here too from church, and I've tried to
describe to tell Aaron and other people about you, and
even ant Man and so let me just say it.
You are a South Korean. Yep, that's that's lived for
(03:03):
years in Afghanistan with a heart for the Afghan people.
And yet you currently live in Canada. And right now
you're with us here in Texas.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yes, God, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So you you, you and your and your lovely wife
have have been spending a night in our barn. We
had dinner last night with our family, and and oh
there's another there's another component to how I describe you.
And we met on zoom while you were in Greece,
yes right, Yes, your South Korea with a heart for
(03:37):
the Afghan people living in Canada. That we met while
you were.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
In Greece, yes right.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And we had a lovely dinner last night, and and
I was able to hear even more of your story
after our connection in Greece.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Please tell me you fit in Texas barbecue.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
No, it was actually more authentic than that. We live
in a German and so Zion Lutheran church that's just
right down the road, the Lutheran Church. Once a year,
they serve a a sausage, you know, like a brought meal.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
So that's really lovely.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
You know, uh, German food in Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Maybe we'll try to get Mexican food tonight. They don't
have that in Toronto. It's good.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Uh no, we have more kind of they we have
more Indian food and les and yeah. So yeah, that
sounds great.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
So I got to know more of your story yes
yesterday and and then I found out that you're also
Lord Willing planting a church in Toronto or outside of Toronto.
What's the name of the town again, Kitchener Waterloo. Kitchener
Waterloo about an hour outside of Toronto. When you're planning
(04:51):
a church as a pastor, but it's going to be
an Afghan church. Yes, So.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
After the government collapse in Afghanistan, translators and also Afghans
who worked for Canadian government was evacuated and then along
with their family members, they settled in my area three
thousand Afghans, but there was no Afghan church, and Sanny
(05:22):
and I have been in prayer and then we thought, okay,
it's now our turn to give it a try to
reach them out.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So you know what that is. These two guys here
are from Oklahoma. If tornadoes you know, and when people
see tornadoes, they flee, except for a very small group
of people. The storm hunters will go into the tornado
to capture it, to test it, to study it, yes,
and to protect others. That's what you're doing. This so
(05:53):
called Islamic invasion is coming, and you and your wife
say we're going into it. We're going into it because
we love these people and that is an incredible.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Muslims or are they believers?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Oh, they're Muslims. They're Muslims by the way, you know,
the baseline should be clear. They had no chance to
consider different options from.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
A to z.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
As they were born, you know, like family name, they
got the identity as a Muslim. So when sometimes we
study Quran to reach them out and then we are,
you know, surprised. We were surprised. They do most of
the time, they do not know about their religious just book,
(06:43):
not like us, because the Quran has written in classical
Arabic and now we are talking about the Persians. Persians
are not Arabs, so without translation, they cannot understand their
own religious book. Well, like you a family name, you know,
you have no option, uh, you know, you were just
(07:05):
born in a family. And then they say, oh, we
are Muslim, Okay, So many times, you know, they feel
like they love their community and they love their family members.
So like you know, many times, we have three children,
so you know, Dave, Josh, Sarah, they grew up like
(07:26):
my father is one of the most strongest men in
this planet. My mother is the most beautiful lady in
this planet. So many times we see similar kind of
dynamic from the Muslim community. So their religious identity is
just given like a family name. So at least we
(07:47):
could we have to offer them there are some other
way around identity.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, yes, that's so good, and we talked about this yesterday.
This I'm asuming because your story is incredible and I
want to get to some really key moments of it.
But but kind of that, there's a thread that goes
through your story, and it's God's providence. God's providence in
one way, it is one way that you think through
it a lot, is that you were born in South
(08:18):
Korea to Christian parents. You had no say in that,
you had no choice in that. And there are people
born into a Muslim home in Afghanistan they have no
say in that, they have no choice in that. And
you've seen that play out in a way where you
your heart has been stirred, and you thought, because I have,
(08:42):
I am responsible to share, to give because what I
have wasn't earned, No, it was it was inherited, and
I didn't. I didn't. This is this is not something
that I could could should hang onto because it's not mine.
It's not mine to hold onto. No, it's mine to share.
(09:05):
That's that's kind of me and a mindset that has
driven you. I don't even know from your store. I
don't even know why you developed a heart for the
Afghan people. Why did you? What happened?
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I grew up in South Korean church back in nineties.
Discipleship training was really active, and you know, I believe
God built me, created me as a musician. I love
to play, you know, guitar and sing. And then of
course I grew up in the worship team and later
(09:41):
I found or we are called to share the gospel.
It doesn't have to be pastor so you know, even.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Though even though you're seminary trained, no, you know.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Yeah, everyone every single believer, so we are cooled to
share the gospel. Yeah, and God is invisible, but we
are we should be the visible evidence to prove God
is alive in wherever we are. And uh so when
I reached there, I realized, okay, I need to share
(10:14):
the gospel. Then what can I do? I'm a musician
and love to play, you know, two more a rock band.
And then I wrote a couple of Christian world view background,
did pop song and then one of my music hit
the K pop charts in back in nineteen ninety nine arts. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, So I told them that Americans are obsessed with Koreans,
you know, because of squid games, and that's right.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Yeah yeah. So now they say that era as a
capap classic. So however I have a classic. Yeah. However,
at the time, you know, I got better income and
the better influence. I said, yes, this is the thing
I've been waiting for the Lord. This is so beautiful.
By the way, I got deeper questions. Is this what
(11:09):
god glory looks like in my life? Better income or
better influence or is that anything much deeper beyond my imagination?
So when Sunny and I opened up all the option
to the Lord and the weapon in prayer, and then
God led us into Central Asia because we knew some
(11:33):
Christian workers in Central Asia. And then they invited us
as a worship leader and Christian musician. So church planting
is really active. And then there are many worship teams,
but they need some kind of mentor and instructors.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
So what year is this when you moved to the year.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Nineteen two thousand, two thousand and one, two thousand and
one was about time of the September eleventh.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, yes, so yeah, that's what I was wondering because
it must have been difficult then.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Uh huh. Yeah, there were some tensions, but you know
when we connected with the local believers in Uzbekistan and Kajakstan,
we experienced small bit of heaven. So you know, we
had conference and the daytime we had one on one
lesson sessions guitar, piano, and evening time we had deep
(12:25):
worship and the beautiful uh time for the world of
the Lord. So you know we take more a bit
of heaven and then we opened open up all again
every option. So Lord, we are ready to listen to
confirm us. Well, do you want us to move in
(12:50):
because you know, uh, only stage we traveled later we
found whilst uh the ministry uh is huge. So based
on the twip in my thick ever, so someone have
to move in.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Cauld I can I ask you a question? Though you
you reach the spot where you say, Lord, I'm listening now,
I've I'm I'm gonna deny myself. I'm gonna take up
my cross and I'm gonna follow you. I'm ready. But
you also have three children? Well at the time was
it two?
Speaker 4 (13:27):
At the time? Was one? Dave?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Dave? David was was your son?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Ye?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And then you had Sarah?
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Oh, no, Dave josh Sarah.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Joshua Joshua was next. Yes, But but you My point is,
you have this little baby. You want to start a
fig You're a young family. What stops you from saying? No?
I want to protect them. I want to I want
to build it. I want to grow in a community
where they're safe and we grow and soul maybe you know,
(13:59):
and and flourish and I'll still worship the Lord. Why
didn't you That's what everyone else does? Why didn't you
do that?
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Like Lord, I give you my heart, I give you
my soul. I leave for you alone. I sung more
than one hundred thousand times. I realized that is promise,
that it's contract between my Lord and myself. So okay,
(14:32):
you know if I armed with you know, all every
possible weapon in my hand and then guard my family
day and night.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Can I guarantee their safety? No? Even in Canada, you
know famous highway is by Highway four o one, like
in winter time, weekly basis we have casualty because of
the accident and you know there are you know, gone
viol and all kinds of things happen. So it's beyond
(15:04):
my capacity.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Wow, there's providence again. Once again it's a common theme.
You're trusting the Lord, his providence in his way. Yes,
is what you're going to trust because if you trust
your way, things happen. Yes. Did you can't control?
Speaker 4 (15:21):
No, it's beyond my control. And through my time in Afghanistan,
what we learned is once my second son Joshua got
hepatatus a, which is really critical. So charge mortality in
Afghanistan is twenty five percent, so one out of four
(15:44):
children died before their age four and that's you know,
a real challenge. And then my son Joshua was one
became one of them, so he was critical critical and
we had blood examined and then we found the research
each series, so one of my Christian worker medical doctor,
(16:06):
they were part of the hospital they have us for
the blood test. And then I asked him, so if
I take my son Joshua to Korea, do you think
there will be chance? He said, well, he's too weak.
He cannot make it through like three hour flight to
Dubai and then seven hour to Korea. No, we have
(16:28):
to wait whatever God's answer from here. And then that became,
you know, my chance to learn he's the decision maker.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Oh yeah, that was your chance to trust him fully
because you couldn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah. So it was, you know, middle of the winter.
So that night, Sonny and I share the update, and
then every evening we had family worship time. But you know,
that night we had we were running out of the songs,
you know. Uh, we were just collapsed and cried and
(17:08):
cried and cried. And then by the way, you know,
deep in the our laments worship with deep tears. God,
it was Holy Spirit just reminded me he is the
final authority of the entire universe. He never messed up
sun and moon and stars on time for a season.
So you know, if my son Joshua uh spent like
(17:34):
four years with us and then and then if God
picks our son Joshua in the this uh middle of winter.
Then I realized this is still perfect. Perhaps as a
father and mother, we are going to grieve and you know, uh,
I had to digging out the snow covered graveyard for
(17:58):
my son. Uh. So perhaps you know, if I bury
my son, I might come back to the place and
then you know, spring comes, summer comes, I might come
back and then cry and grieve and miss him. But
I realized still is part hope God's perfect picture. Whether
(18:24):
you know, if I, let's say, if I my son
Joshua lives forty years or four hundred years, could I
guarantee every moment of his life, you know, or my
life shines out God glory? Maybe not?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeah, So it takes great maturity to start to think
that way. Though it takes great spiritual maturity. It takes
a trusting in His word to come to that conclusion.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
And a knowledge and a knowledge you understand.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
I we had Sonny, and I had some kind of
you know, burning heart to find that what is the
reality of the worship that we are seeing every weekly
basis like you know, Lord, I give you my heart
and leave for you alone.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
But what happened to your son?
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Because I want to go there. I want to direct
you toward what what I know you're going to do
because I love this. Yep, what happened to your son?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
So that night, you know, things were cleared between myself
and with my Lord. So I agree to live up
or the control to him. Whether whatever you decide, that
is still perfect. If you need to take my Joshua
(19:43):
in this middle of the winter, I wouldn't yelling at you.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't curse you. Still you are my
Lord and your plan is perfect and h and then
we spent our best effort whatever we were able to,
(20:07):
and Sonny took huge burden. So you know this apathetus
a in Afghanistan, the little one just drew up everything,
so non nutrition came through. But you know, let's say
after four spoons he drew up, so Tony clean up
everything and then feed him again one more scoop, one
(20:30):
more scoop. So there was kind of almost two months
of really heavy time wrestling. So we just tried our best.
From our end as a parent, we were looking for
or looking after Joshua, and after week four we found
(20:52):
David got the same symptoms. O Lord and then we
found twenty five year old one of our Korean colleague
actually passed away because of the same symptoms. So wow,
you know, we realized, wow, young man couldn't make it,
(21:13):
made it, so now can this little one can survive again?
You know, we confirmed it is your business whether you
leave Joshua with us or not. But however, you know,
God gave us hard to spend our best effort. So later,
(21:37):
after a week five and six, we so God bore
out his mercy and grace and then Joshua slowly recovered
and then David as well, so we cannot remember that winter.
So you know, however, they became a trauma trigger for us,
(22:00):
Sonny and me. Usually we cannot share this part without
you know, burst in tears. But by god grace, now
I can share without tears. So what we learned was
like some hundred three, God created us and he knows
(22:21):
we are made out of play and dust, and he
feels sympathy for us. You know, we are so weak,
but that night we were in a burst in tears
and then running out of the music. Only sound we
(22:43):
were able to live up was our tears and our cry.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But let's look at it let's look at that's good.
If you're trying to get a gift for someone that
you think has everything, how about special video message from me.
It's easy to do. Go to cameo dot com slash
Granger Smith and you put in the prompt what you
(23:06):
want me to say. I get that message on my phone.
I'll say happy birthday, happy anniversary, whatever personalized message you
want me to say to whoever you want me to
say it to. I send it to you and you
give it to them. It's pretty cool. Go to cameo
dot com slash Granger Smith. So you know we did
(23:31):
you know that Amber and I did lose a three
year old. Yeah. So sometimes the Lord does take, and
sometimes he heals. But you're referencing some one of three.
Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and all that is
within me. Bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, oh
my soul, and forget not all his benefits, who forgives
(23:56):
all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, who redeems
your life from the pit, who crowned you with steadfast
love and mercy, who satisfies you with good so that
your youth is renewed like the eagles. The Lord's work.
The Lord works righteousness and justice for all who are opposed.
(24:17):
Excuse me oppressed. I'm gonna put on my glasses. And
you and Sonny lived by these psalms. Tell me, here's
where you here's what you were talking about. For as
for man, his days are like grass. He flourishes like
(24:40):
a flower in the field. But the wind passes over it,
and it is gone in its place, and its place
knows it no more. But the steadfast love of the
Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on all who feared him.
Tell me the story of your next door neighbor in Afghanistan.
You said that the next story to you in Afghanistan,
(25:02):
there was a house that was yes, or it was
rebel because of bombing, because there was always war there, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I think it was like two thousand and six winter.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Oh and by the way, sorry, I keep that. I'm
just so obsessed with your story. You know, he's there
during Marcus the Trail Lone Survivor times. Oh, okay, so
he hears about he hears about that. There's a Chinook
that was shot down by the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Do you hear all about that?
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes? Yeah, And it's because he's he's on radio.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yes, right, you're you're I was working for local TV
station as a music director.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Oh were you?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah? So we had so many you know, raw information
intels and then oh I found wow, shut down. I
served in the Navy for twenty half years in South Korea. Okay,
so you know I have deep heart for the military
person but oh lord, you know, such a huge loaths
and casualty. And then later I've heard, you know, one
(26:01):
Pashton village protect one of the servicemen.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
There's one man still alive and he's in a village. Wow,
he's protected by the villagers. Yeah, in Afghan So.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
You hear it from that side over there, while that
we don't hear about until everything's done.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
But the story, the other story is that your next
door neighbor, yes, destroyed by bombs. So other people began
to move into the rubble to live because of the
poverty that they were just living in a blown out house. Yeah,
tell that story of what you heard one night.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Yep, So I think it was two thousand and six. Again,
it was winter time at midnight. I felt there was
kind of animal, you know, but it was kind of
a regidential area in Cabo called they showed block, so
there should be no animal like that, but it was,
(27:00):
you know, beyond human screaming. And then I found it
was screaming of my neighbor, the mother of more than
ten children. So actually my neighbor house was just rubble.
(27:20):
So during the civil war between mujaid In, seven different
Mujaidin groups they destroyed with each other. So before it
was mentioned like twenty rooms kind of mentioned. But after
the bombing it became just rubble. But one square remained
(27:41):
and this placed family found the shelter in that rubble.
So no running water, no sewage system, no electricity and
no heating. You know, more than ten family members, mother,
father and children from like eighty into Newboe baby. They
(28:01):
were all leap together, so we shared whatever we could.
We shared electricity with them and so on. So that night,
you know, some screaming beyond human imagination, and then I
found the mother just lost the little baby. And then
(28:26):
she was sitting on the street. I never heard her
voice before, but she was because.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
A woman doesn't speak at night in Afghanistan, I don't
hear a woman at night.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
No, yeah, you cannot hear a female voice. Nowhere in
Afghanistan anytime, anytime, but that night we heard, you know,
screaming and yelling. And then after the grunting I heard
(29:00):
she said, Akbar John to day Marnameishnawi, which means almighty one.
You never hear my cry? I was stunned. Wow, that's
from the Bible, Dutch palm got hear my cry. And
then I found, you know, her last little one suffered
(29:22):
because of the fever a couple of days, and then
that night stopped the breath. She lost up by so.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
A woman, a Muslim woman, was screaming out words from
the psalms mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
And then she was sitting on the street and then
slapped her faces, pour out her hair, and tear off
her clothes. And then I'm doomed one, I'm cursed one,
almighty one.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Where are you? Where are you?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
Almighty one? So it was not Allah. She called that
Akbar John. Akbar means you know, the almighty one. So
for my heart, Lord, she's courting you, Lord. The mother
who just lost her baby is courting out your name.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Lord.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So that moment was a turning point for him in
his ministry, not only in his in his ministry for Islam,
but in his understanding of evangelism in a culture that
is that values honor, shame, that that cannot open up
(30:39):
in any other way. A woman that would never speak
in a country that doesn't allow a woman to speak,
was crying out in a way that impacted Mike. Where
everything the Lord revealed something in your heart. Then that
there is a new way of ministry.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Yes, so that moment really engraved my borone God. They
are crying out to you right Perhaps they might be
considered as a lost child or flock out of the
barn according to the Gospel of John, but they are
(31:21):
calling out you Lord, and skip the time into twenty twenty,
I had a chance to visit a refuge camp, Maria
refugee camp in Lesbos Island in Greek territory, but right
(31:41):
in front of the Turkish shore. So we had a
conference to serve refugees. So at the time, you know,
it was flooding of refugees. So we had a conference
and then we've undered the up team to visit one
of the refuge camp so from iva look from Turkish side.
(32:06):
We paid some ticket to get some you know seat,
and then we got a nice coffee and then we
enjoyed like an hour of the very ride to the
Greek island.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
It's a beautiful place.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Beautiful, yeah, great vacation place. By the way, you know,
far away distance, I saw dingy boats filled with refugees.
Really yes, you know, just exactly the same human beings
like you and me. In Afghanistan. What really stunned me
(32:39):
was I'd never paid the application feel like ten thousand
dollars to get the you know, Korean skin and Korean
Christian parents. When I was born. I found you you know,
I had like good four or five generations of serious
Christian fathers, forefathers. But in Afghanistan, I found they are
(33:01):
exactly the same human being. And I paid nothing to
become Korean Christian and they paid nothing. And then found
you know, they were born in a Muslim family and
like family name identity has just keiven, Oh you're a Muslim.
So my heart was, you know burning. So I was
(33:21):
sitting on a nice favoryboat with hot coffee. They were
sitting on the dingy boat uncertainty whether it could reach
the island or not.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
And these are people from Afghanistan or that have fleed
the war and the economy of Afghanistan, and they're just
trying to get to Europe. Yes, Europe doesn't want them.
Greece doesn't want them in neither this Turkey because they
want they don't want Islamic invasion. Sure, right, it sounds
(33:53):
like us, that sounds like that's down. This was only
six years five years ago.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
So when I arrived, you know, and real quick, why
are they why are they fleeing?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Why have they fled.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
Like Afghans? You know, first they find shelter in Iran,
and then when the refuge permit finished or expired, they
moved to Turkey.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
But they're trying to get out of the war that's
going on in Afghanistan. Yeah, correct, okay, yeah, And then
you know, like.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
During the war, you know, even like there is no
guarantee to raise your children until like fifteen twenty without
any concern because you know, there are many militias, local militias.
So one day, you know, with a couple of pickup trucks,
(34:47):
you know, worldlords came and oh I need more soldiers.
You come joined. There is no way to say no,
no choice, no choice, and you know those little boys
might be where with a suicide vest and then you know,
a brain watched for a month. As soon as you die,
you will be in heaven, so you know. And then
(35:08):
they compensate like five hundred dollars for the family, and
this is great. Martyr parents doesn't want to be part
of that story. So they left their village. And then
it doesn't matter whether I begging on the street or
eating from the food garbage. We will be out of
this mess. So they escaped the war zone conflict, and
(35:31):
then they moved to Iran. By the way, you know,
nobody welcomes refugees, so you know, when the permission expired,
they moved to Turkey and got permission. And when they realized, oh,
my refuge status will be expired in a week and
(35:54):
we are going to be deported back to Afghanistan, then
you know, they sold every everything and paved mooddlers. And
then they find a fit on the dingy boat. So
I saw them on the dingy boat, and then you
know they.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
These are dingy boats, are like these little rubber drafts basically,
and they've paid everything they own to get on that
boat to try to get to Greek, to that Greece,
the Greek island of what's the island's name, uh, Lesbos Island,
Lesbos Islands, because because that Lesbos island is another holding
(36:30):
spot yep. That then you can get to the mainland
of Greece. So they pay everything they own just to
not go back to Afghanistan frum Iran through Turkey to
get on this rubber dinghy boat.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
So the dinner time we had dinner, and then suddenly
I heard the rescue choppers almost you know, blew out
our roup and and uh Christian workers who in that
area says, oh, another you know dingy boat flipped over
(37:04):
its rescue operation. Let's see what happened. And then you know,
an hour later, okay, two persons dead, drone dead in
the ocean and a star bubrus rescued. My heart was
just broken. They are just exactly the same human being
like you and me, but you know, the what it
(37:25):
welcomes them and their hometown is masked with this conflict
and tell them.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Why these dingy boats go down and people die every
day on those boats.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
At the time. Greek coast guard sometimes by purpose they
cause wave to flip over this refuge boat, dingy boat.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
So they die out there and they don't have to
do anything with them on the mainland.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
And sometimes speedboat appear out of nowhere, speedboat with sometimes gone,
sometimes with spear, and then they destroy the dingy boat
to die. Clear message like you know, do not attempt,
(38:14):
don't try to cross the ocean so you will die.
So there was you know, clear message. But still people
want to try that because otherwise, you know, only option
was wait for a week and then you know, deported
back to Afghanistan. So my heart was so broken. So
(38:38):
you know, at that night I wasn't able to sleep. Lord.
Next day I supposed to let a worship session for
Afghan Muslim background, the new Christian believers. Okay, so you
know I've been in prayer for the worship session and
then so less than like twelve hours was the leader
(39:00):
worship session for them. So Lord, what do you want
me to sing with these afternoon livers? And then God
gave me uh kind of some worship lamentation worship.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
But that but last night you said you you first
you started singing craising worship.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Yes, so next day, you know, next day like Hudo
and Nichols Hu Nichols translated worship song from English worship song,
but I is song. Uh you have memic less memory less.
Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
By the way, the response was not really active, okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Just kind of looking at them, yea, not doing anything.
You know, God, y, you're you're my boyfriend, you know Jesus,
you know.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So they were not able to resonate with the worship
songs and night before, you know, while I prayed, God
reminded me that night the lady, my neighbor, lady who
cried out, akbarjon amy one, where are you? You never
hear my cry? So I wrote a lamentation worship Mighty One,
(40:22):
hear my cry. I've been cry at all night long.
I've been drawn underwater, I've been chased by enemies, I
was lost in the desert, and I was hired under
the big rock. Nobody welcomes me, but I know you
are the Almighty One. Still I'm here for your help,
(40:44):
the rescue me, save me.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
The old woe do I am mouto besh.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Ay?
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Who do whoa.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Create model.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Be?
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Now?
Speaker 4 (41:15):
So I borrowed melody from the kind of a Courregorian chant,
which is actually an original form of the Azan in
the Islamic community. So there was borrowed from the early churches.
So I borrowed those melodies and then I played this
(41:36):
lamentation worship with Afghan traditional musical instrument named Afghan rubob.
And then I saw, you know, when we had the
worship possession, I saw Afghan Muslim background doo believers like
eighty we had a fellowship in a warehouse, they turned
(41:58):
into the stoneface. So you know, I was surprised. Oh Lord,
am I doing something wrong. I was really nervous. But however,
I started the song, so you know, I supposed I
supposed to finish the song. So as I continue the
worship song, I saw that the stoneface burst in tears.
(42:22):
Then I realized, oh, even in this you know, so
called Christian fellowship, tension was real, uh issue, So they
don't want to inform others that he or she is crying,
so you know, they burst in tears. And then with
the stoneface, then they took out their mobile phone and
(42:44):
started to record my lamentation worship because they love it.
And then they want to keep it and they want
to keep listening this worship song. Wow, and I realized, oh,
this is a key two to reach out the wounded heart.
(43:09):
Traumatized community. They are waiting for some medicine, some healing, grace,
and that is the lamentation worship.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
So this is impactful for me too because our church
we went through the Book of Limitations. We preached through
that book, and it's often missed and Americans are like
the first in line to skip over the idea that
the that lament in the Bible was given to us
(43:46):
as a gift, as a heart posture for grieving. Oh yeah,
and that key that you're talking about is right here
in our Bible. We have it. We have it, you know.
For instance, I'm thirteen, I go to I think about
this a lot because these are ideas when when someone
is struggling and they're grieving, they're they're hurting, the Bible
(44:11):
gives you a language. Oh yeah for this. Aaron and
I have been through this a lot between us and
our lives. And there are days when you want to
to give a joyful rejoice, a happy you know, cheerful
thanks to God. But there's other times when you say, psal,
I'm thirteen, How long, o Lord, will you forget me forever?
(44:36):
How long will you hide your face from me? How
long must I take counsel in my soul, and have
sorrow in my heart all the day. How long shall
my enemy be exalted over me? Consider and answer me, O, Lord,
my God, light up my eyes lest I sleep the
sleep of death. And this is the voice of the
woman you heard in the rebble, without even knowing Christ.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
She was.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Her heart was postured for lamit churches in America, not
just Afghanistan, not just in Korea. We need the laments.
We need to view that. This is our heart language
of sorrow. This is the key you unlock. It's interesting
because your wife is pursuing a master's degree in biblical counseling.
(45:18):
You're planning a church as a pastor, you've been trained
to be a pastor, you're planning in I thought, oh, well,
will Sunny be counseling biblical counseling in the church. And
you both looked at me and said no.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
Afghans don't. They don't go to counseling. Afghans don't open
up anything about their lives. Afghans don't speak the problems
because that's shameful. They don't want anybody to know. But
guess what works singing laments? Amen, that has become your
mission now.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Yes, so earlier you know we mentioned about Islamic invasion.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, yeah, I think no.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
Otherwise, Like let's say, you know, your village somehow entangled
with the combat different militia, like seven militias. You know,
every night, different militias came and they require food and
sometimes your son and your daughter can you stay there? No,
(46:18):
it's nothing new. When you open the Bible, like Genesis
chapter forty two to forty five, you can find the
Joseph stories. So you know, one point, Joseph use that
analedge kind of you know when when he's teasing his brothers,
(46:39):
you know he put gold cups and treasures in their back. Oh,
you must despi, which means you know, that was one
of the common perspective to see others from outside. So
at the time in Egypt, they had food and security
(47:02):
and better life rest of the community, you know, so
you know, people came to Uh Joseph to get the
food to survive and community. See, it was possible. It
was popular to see that the situation with the hostality
(47:24):
are they bring harm to us or are they come
here to destroy us or steal us? So in our
generation we might have similar, especially through the media. You know,
we were kind of feed over and over the perspective
of hostility. But in Christ, you know, uh, the perspective
(47:49):
of Christ is hospitality.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Did you say that again for the people that might
want to hear that again on this podcast?
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Perspective of Christ? In Christ, what we have to where
is hospitality?
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (48:06):
You need water? Yes, I can bring a water. You
need a food, yes I can share. Still you know
to who those uh in need? Those kind of people?
Speaker 1 (48:22):
What color skin?
Speaker 4 (48:24):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Well yes, what kind of language would they speak?
Speaker 4 (48:29):
They might speak like, you know, Spanish or you mean
all people, yes, everybody, Korean, Chinese and Indians. And why
are they storming into Europe and North America? Because you
have the food and they do not have and they so.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
We need to keep it and build walls around us
and just we need to hoard.
Speaker 4 (48:54):
Huh kick them out, kick them out? Yeah, Oh they
must be thieves and gangsters and yeah yes, so you know,
uh in the eyes of hostolity. Okay, so now we
want to build a war and then buy some weapons,
not a bad idea, and you know, some ammunitions so
(49:15):
that we'll be good just in case. Who knows. But
Christ says they don't know even you know, when they're
doing nasty stuffs. Christ said, they don't know what they
are doing. They have no idea. So in Christ, what
we have to.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Nail them to the cross. Yes, other forgive them they know.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Not what they do.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
So as Tonny and I uh lit a weekly based
this thirty minute Afghan worship session in language of Afghanistan Dari.
We invite Afghan worship leader and offer them to lead
(50:08):
worship session and we empower them. And as we continue
the ministry, sometimes we got a death threat and then
you know they really think we are Hazara tribe Afghans.
Once we were Afghans and then now we convert into
the Christianity, so they be can even more upset. And
(50:28):
then they say I'm going to you know, catch you
and then chop you guys into pieces and then kind
of stuff. But it's the same. You know, they don't
know what they are doing. And from our end, you know,
we want to keep our perspective and saying a posture
(50:52):
a little bit more space for them to get to
know Christ and get a couple of water from our
hand hands on a feat of the Christ. So Mother terrorists.
Once she said, well, God does not have hands and
feed I'm a Baptist pastor, but you know, I yeah,
(51:16):
but I think are really yeah, really well mentioned that
God doesn't have hands but ours. So you know, as
we feed them, as we serve them, they see the difference.
Speaker 3 (51:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (51:31):
So when I worked in local tivy station in Afghanistan,
first or the Afghan journalists and technical people, they watched
me really carefully, and then we sometimes we had conflict,
and then they watched me how I deal with the conflict.
(51:52):
And one summer I built a recording studio and then
after months of effort, of course one guy jumped in
and then his goal was clear. He wanted to take
over the recording studio. So God gave me just peace
for heart to give him everything and step back. And
(52:13):
then after the one guy came to me said I
think you are smart guy, and then you are educated,
but your solution was totally different. I think you are
true Muslim.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
So I was done.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
So why why did he said? Well, man, I can
tell you leave in the Gotch presence every day. Your
language is totally different, and I can tell you fear
God and you I can tell you are working with
(52:51):
the God, the Creator daily basis. So you know we
are just kind of you know, fake, but you are
genuine God fear and I see God's touch in your
heart in your life. I found, you know, nobody could
(53:11):
deny the evidence. So nowadays, you know, media says or
be prepared for this invasion and how many casualties and
see their hostilities and stuff. But well in the Bible
we can find the answer. You know, it's time of femine.
(53:33):
You have the food they do not have. You know,
whenever when we reach out Afghans Muslim community, only thing
they want is better future their children. They hope my
son wouldn't be dragged into the militia for the soulside
(53:56):
bombing in Afghanistan. You know, sometimes you have no guarantee
to protect your daughter beyond age twelve. So you know, okay,
it would be better to begging on the street, so
I will go out. So they take their family and
then really literally they go to Pakistan and Iran and Turkey.
(54:22):
Actually they're sitting on the street and then begining to survive.
So now you know, last week I saw news report
forty five percent of food bank customers are Afghans. So
they need food and they need community, and whoever listened
(54:45):
to this podcast, I would like to really encourage you
to reach them out. They are here not to destroy
this community, but they want to be part of this community.
They're only desire is better future their children. One day,
you know, their children will be educated and well fit
(55:08):
in this community and contribute to society, and they have
a better future. That's only their hope and desire. By
the way, as we reject them, as we segregate them,
things are getting downward and things are getting spoiled. In London, Canada,
(55:33):
years ago, we had some kind of extremist cases. It
was funny, you know, one guys from North Africa and
other guys from Middle East, just high school graduate and
one Korean guy joined this giddy group. Okay, this Korean guy.
They had Catholic background, but they were bullied and rejected
(55:56):
in high school. And then they found oh, watch common
in US. Oh we are all bullied, so majority doesn't
accept us. Uh. So you know, they they had deep
anxiety and sorrow and angry. And then one guy had
(56:21):
a resources from the extremists, so or they went to
North Africa to be a jihadist and this Korean guy
lost in the city and then and then detained by
the local authority and then later deported back to Canada.
So when we reject and when we isolate them, things
(56:42):
are getting really downward. But I believe God sent them
to in front of us, you and me, right next
to the church. You know, we say Bible belt. Southern
Ontario is you know, Bible belt, And in a sudden
part of the US strong Bible belt, they are here
(57:04):
to listen to the gospel. So one of my crazy
suggestion is, would you like to mess up your Thanksgiving dinner?
Go to the McDonald's or on the Thanksgiving evening you
can find so many immigrants who has nowhere to go.
(57:25):
Perhaps they brought their children to spend time for the evening.
Perhaps you might mess up one dinner a challenge, Yeah,
but you might earn the relationship and you might be
the witness who Christ is. They might ask you, so
(57:45):
why do you invite us? You can say you know,
I'm a follower of the Christ. It doesn't mean you know,
I'm going to change your religious background, or your even family,
or your gender or nothing. But I want to be,
you know, a friend. I want to be a neighbor,
good neighbor with you, So I know you know since
(58:10):
as a Korean, actually we are one of those families
who are sitting in the betterners for Thanksgiving evenings. So
we are a nuclear family far from our homeland. So
each time when we visit there, we see you know,
so many immigrant families from China and India and the
Middle East. They're just sitting and then spend time there,
(58:32):
while Norse American families really rejoice with a bigger family.
So I know, you know, Christmas dinner is really important,
and Thanksgiving dinner is really important. But do not fear.
Fear drive us into wrong direction, not to shine out
(58:54):
who we are. I certain in the Navy, you know
when you panicked, actually you forgot who you are once.
We had an active situation in nineteen seventy three. It
was before my time in DMZ Korea. So North American
soldiers attacked UN forces. So US military officer with Korean members,
(59:22):
so they attacked this unit. The UN team was trying
to cut down a tree for the better observation, but however,
in the North Koreans just appeared and then attacked them
with ax By the way, one of the guards. You know,
(59:43):
he was panicked as other side jumped in with the ax.
He panicked and he ran like one hundred meter and
then he found actually he has a gun. Or however,
you know that Captain Boniface already attacked with acts and
(01:00:05):
he lost his life at that moment from the attack.
So when we panic in the field with the fear,
actually we forgot who we are. We are the rock.
We are the Church, We are the light of the world,
and we are houses on the rock. Sometimes you know,
(01:00:28):
I compare that if you attack the rock with the
agg who will win act or rock. We are the
rock because we have the Gospel. So do not fear.
And if you have any like you know, immigrant background
(01:00:50):
neighbors or even Muslim neighbors, do not fear and connect
with them and then ask them what's their name and
watch their dren's name which they're you know, favorite food,
and then connected with them. And then if you are
walk with the Lord, there should be some reflection who
(01:01:16):
God is visible evidence they will see it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
And then well, if you've ever thought about going on
a on a mission trip and you haven't been able
to God's bringing them to us.
Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Now that we don't have to go anywhere to go
on a mission trip anymore.
Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Like what an amazing message. And I didn't know you
were going to finish that way. It's like perfect. I mean,
it couldn't have been better timing. Continuing from last week's
podcast where we talked about where could people find you today?
If they are maybe we shouldn't have people find you
because you say things that are that you know could
(01:01:55):
get you in trouble. But where if do you have
a ministry that people could find you? That may be
the church plant that's coming in uh huh Kitchener, right.
Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
Yes, we are going to church planting in Kitchener, Ontario.
And also you could reach me, Mike that chun at
O m org so you can send me an email.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
So yeah, So this here is my favor to everyone
who listened to this podcast. Prayer so weekly basis, we
send out Christian message in the form of art Afghan
worship songs into Afghanistan as a Facebook ad. So sometimes
(01:02:47):
in four days, you know, we got one hundred fifty
riches and we record one hundred and ninety five abuse,
so means more than forty thousand people watching more than
one time. I don't know if they are isolated believers
or not. But sometimes Ah, the reply says, fear Allah
(01:03:10):
and do not deceive people. So I said, praise the Lord.
He shows his very first reaction to the gospel, like
for support early stage. You know, he was ready to
kill anybody because of his you know, uh faith to
protect the faith. But by the way, you know our
(01:03:32):
God does not need protection. Of course, you know there
are law authorities enforcement systems in this country like CIA,
FBI and then RCMP in Canada. So as a civilian,
you know, we don't need to worry about too much
about it because we have the best system in the government.
(01:03:57):
What we need to do is reach them out. And Ah,
as I see this negative reply, I thank God he
shows at least one reaction to the gospel. And we
are keep praying for these guys. They feel upset means
(01:04:18):
better than ignore, and I pray you know this opportunity
became to shed the light of gospel into their life.
And then I pray, Lord inter in their life. And
then reveal who you are even nighttime when they sleep
(01:04:38):
through the dream, reveal yourself. So if you keep standing
alongside with us with prayer, I will really appreciate that.
And if you want to get prayer letter, send me
an email Mike dot Chan at om Org.
Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Sonny, did he miss anything? He missed a lot of things. Yes,
that's I think.
Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
Not.
Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
You said one hundred and fifty views. It was one
hundred and fifty thousand. Yes, thank you, Sonny was her brother.
Thank you sincerely. You have you have blessed us with
your story and and even your presence in our house,
and so I hope that this is the beginning of
(01:05:35):
many conversations between us. And as we watch the Lord
as he unravels his providence in front of our eyes,
it's it's, it's it's the Bible says, it is marvelous
in our eyes. And so we serve a great God.
And though we were born far far distance from each other,
(01:05:57):
we are brothers and we served the same So I'm
I'm excited to stand beside you in prayer and maybe
even in another.
Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Country one of these days.
Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
Sure, absolutely, Thank you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Thank you so much for hanging out with me on
this episode of the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate you being here.
If you're listening right now, go ahead and rate today's podcast.
It helps more folks find the show, and if you're
tuning in on the iHeartRadio app, you could actually set
this podcast as one of your presets, which is cool
that way. I'm just one tap away. If you're watching
on YouTube, don't forget to hit like and subscribe so
you don't miss any new episodes. And if you've got
(01:06:34):
a question you want answered right here on the show,
just email me podcast at grangersmith dot com. I'd love
to hear from you. Thanks again for being here. We'll
see you next time.
Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
Yee
Host
Granger Smith
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