September 29, 2025 • 39 mins
This week, Granger and AntMan talk about one of the most difficult topics yet: people celebrating the murder of Charlie Kirk. Instead of rallying anger or division, they slow down to ask why anyone would respond that way and what it says about the deeper shifts happening in our culture.
The conversation moves into the idea of cultural paradigms—different ways societies define right and wrong, honor and shame, or even oppressor and oppressed. Granger shares how these lenses shape the way people view events and how they can make neighbors see each other as enemies.
But the heart of the episode is not politics or culture—it’s the gospel. Granger and AntMan point to Scripture to show that only Christ can break down the walls that separate us, whether those walls are built from ideology, bitterness, or fear. The message is clear: peace comes not from taking sides, but from the cross.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you celebrated in any way the murder of Charlie Kirk,
I have an important message to tell you today on
the podcast Okay, heavy topic today we're going to cover
(00:23):
and we man sitting with me, we have not done
a whole lot of research here. We're going to just
speak and see what comes out, because we've got a
lot of thoughts, and we're going to use the Bible,
and we're going to use some comments we've seen on
social media, and we're going to try to help kind
of bridge the gap of understanding as we see completely
(00:49):
different schools of ideas here in America recently this past
month of what a month, this past September was for
us as we saw how so many things happen, but
including the remembrance of nine to eleven in the middle
of everything else that we saw, specifically thinking about the
(01:10):
murder of Charlie Kirk and people that have celebrated this murder.
And by no means am I what I'm not trying
to rile up an ant bed here. I'm not trying
to as ant man sitting with me, I'm not trying
to rally troops. That's not what I'm doing To say,
we need to rise up against people that have celebrated
(01:33):
a murder or that have protested a funeral memorial. That's
not what this podcast is about. If that's why you
came to this podcast because of the title, then you
could this might not be of interest to you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You should listen.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You should listen because I want to specifically want to
speak to the person that is celebrating the murder. I
have something to say about this, and so we're gonna
get to it. You you mentioned, and for instance, you
mentioned a video today as we're sitting here that of
a mother and a couple daughters, two daughters. Tell us,
(02:09):
tell me that story.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
The video is of you don't see the mom. The
mom's holding the phone and she says to her two daughters.
They look they're young, old enough to talk and know
kind of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
At least.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
The mom says, I have the best news. And the
girls are smiling already, and one of them goes, the
president's dead, and the mom giggles and says, no, guess again,
(02:45):
and either the same girl or one of the other
girls says the vice President's dead. No no thing. What
would be like the best news in the world. I've
turned it off of that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You don't know what that was about.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean there's so much happening right now that
and during that time that I was like, Okay, I've
had a I get what this is about.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Move on.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
But I saw continually popping up, people redoing it. And
then I saw a mom that started with that, and
then she goes, hang on a second. She walks down
to her daughter's room and their kids are is in
the living room. The kids are in the living room
and ask one kid, Hey, I have the best news.
Can you guess what it is? And the kid's like,
(03:32):
I don't know. The mom goes, yes, it's the best news.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Ever, trying to recreate the first video, like as a joke. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And the kid says, we're having pizza tonight now, which
one of those seems more normal. And the point that
the second mom was trying to point out was this
is a normal reaction from a child. If your child's
(04:02):
first response is the president is dead, there's way more
going on.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
There's way more going on. It's something that's taught. Both
the pizza and the president are something that that's kind
of cultivated. So let's dive into this what we're doing.
The only way we could explain this and this is
it kept me going a little bit because because I
love Amber, my wife, and she has a book coming
(04:29):
out in October, and she posted a book club invitation
for her book on her Instagram. Yeah, and these comments
started coming in for that invitation talking about her previous
post in support of in memory of Charlie Kirk, and
(04:50):
they're like, I can no longer support your book, which
has nothing to do with any of that. I can
no longer support your book because now I know that
you have supported Charlie Kirk, who is you know, a
racist and a bigot. And then da da da da
da you know, so you know, and I see that
and there are like long explanations and I see it
and I get inside me. My flesh gets riled up.
(05:10):
I'm like, what you're talking about? My wife? You know?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I can't understand. I can't comprehend why Amber could
be in support of the family of Charlie Kirk and
the gospel message of Charlie Kirk and how she could
post that and support of that and love for that,
you know, and that someone could think from Amber that's hating,
(05:37):
that is that is to hate others. That is, that
is for Amber to say that is to be racist.
I can't understand that, but that's because I have a
different cultural paradigm. And this is the only way, This
is the only explanation, and I'll explain this. That could
help us understand why we could look at at our
(05:59):
neighbor or that lives in our same city, are on
the same street as we do, that might have that
might watch the same Saturday morning cartoons as we did
when we were ten years old. How they could think
something that is so foreign to our brain. And that's
(06:21):
because we have a shift in cultural paradigms. Let me explain.
A cultural paradigm is a deep seated assumption or value
or pattern that shapes how people in a particular society think, act,
and relate to one another. These paradigms influence everything from
communication styles and leadership to family life, religion, and economics.
(06:46):
They are not just surface customs like clothing or hairstyles.
They are mental maps that entire groups of people live by.
That's a cultural paradigm. The interesting thing about this, the
current situation, is that we are seeing a paradigm shift
within a culture itself. And that's because possibly because we're
(07:09):
in the melting pot of the United States, where we
all are very, very different, and we have very polarizing
political opinions right now, and it's been so polarizing over
the last couple decades that we have there is become
now a paradigm shift within the culture. And I say
(07:30):
that again because usually cultural paradigms are based on countries
or continents or sometimes communities, right, but rarely split within
a community. But I think we're so confused right now
because we're seeing a paradigm shift within the community. I
first started thinking about this well seminary. We we've talked
(07:52):
a lot about cultural paradigms throughout the world. And the
beautiful thing about cultural paradigms is that g Is in
the Gospels perfectly answers all of the major cultural paradigms
throughout the Gospels. I'll explain that. But the new one
that's that has has now shown its face here in America.
(08:14):
I first started thinking about this from a a pastor
named Josh Howardton. We've talked about him a little bit
on this podcast. Yeah, he talked about a new cultural
paradigm that's built on top of the critical theory that
is now the paradigm is and let me let me
(08:35):
back up just a second, say that that you're ant
man me and you our cultural paradigm would essentially be
right verse.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Wrong, which when we first started talking about this, I
thought it is there is there another one?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's you would say, is there another one? Because
because it's a mental map for you, it is a
deep seated assumption. Is that in a definition or value
or pattern that has shaped the way you think, So
you think it's a filter. In the West, it's a
filter that you must see everything through. There is no
(09:11):
erasing a cultural paradigm. Right, It's part of your your everything,
it's part of your mental vision. So you see everything
through the lens of right verse wrong, and so do I,
and so to probably a lot of people listening, unless
you're from, for instance, to far East and you see
it through the lens of honor verse shame. And maybe
(09:34):
you're in the Middle East and you see it in
terms of dirty verse clean are impure verse pure.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Same thing, right dirty versus clean dirty?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, dirty clean improor impure verse pure. And then and
we see a lot like like Japanese, Chinese Korean will
will live strongly with honor shame. Sure now our cultural paradigm,
it out trumps the our moral compass. It becomes our
moral compass. Sure you should say so. For instance, let's
(10:08):
think of a hypothetical situation and a cultural paradigm. This
is all back seminary work a few years ago. If
I if as as a right wrong paradigm guy, and
a lot of it's because I live in the West
and most of us are here in America. If I
go to a If I go to a restaurant and
(10:29):
I'm I'm sitting there eating a meal, I'm just making
this up. I'm eating a meal at a restaurant and
I'm friends with me, and I get a I get
a notification that says your credit card has is now overdrafted,
so we're going to shut down your credit card temporarily,
(10:52):
and I'm going to buy this meal for everyone in America.
Because I'm a right wrong guy, I would go, Guys,
I messed up. I have overdrafted my card. Can anybody
spot me? It's embarrassing, but I'll then know you later.
(11:15):
But can you just get me out of this hole
and cover me? And no one at the table would
be like what an idiot. They'd be like, yeah, bro,
I got you right. Wrong, because it would be wrong
to do it any another way. But if we're in Asia, right,
if that's not my cultural paradigm, if my paradigm is
(11:36):
hon or shame, I will do anything I can to
avoid shame. So I would say something like, guys, I'll
handle this. I'll go ahead and pay for the meal.
Y'all want to go ahead and go out to the
parking lot and get the car. I'll meet you outside.
They go out, I snink off to the restroom. I
go out the back door. I meet them in the
parking lot. All good, guys, let's go. I stole the meal.
(12:00):
In America, we'd say that's wrong, right, But in Asia,
it doesn't matter. If I'm wrong, I would never shame
my family. That would be shameful. It would be honorable
to just walk out the back door and make it
go away. I can't understand that an American in an
American way. It's very difficult, but we have to understand
(12:21):
cultural paradigms are deep seated. Yeah, okay, so I think
that's kind of like an overview Josh Howarton back to him.
There's a new one in America. It is oppressed versus oppressor.
So once again, a cultural paradigm will outweigh anything else morality, right, wrong, honor, shame.
(12:43):
If that's yours, whatever yours is, it outweighs all the others.
So if your idea is that someone that's oppressing another person,
then that person must be eliminated at all costs, regardless
of morals, regardless of right and wrong. That's irrelevant if
it's not your. Now, everyone has a little bit of
(13:04):
every cultural paradigm has a little of all of it.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, for us, wrong would be shameful, would be shameful
to do something wrong. Yes, so you do have a
little bit of what we consider like an Eastern culture.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, we all had a little bit of it. So,
like if you're driving by a dark alley and you
see some guys beaten up on a girl, they're oppressing her,
sure you'd stop the car, correct and you would punch
the guy in the face, even though that could be
wrong in the sense of the law. You could be
breaking the law by punching a guy and he hasn't
(13:39):
touched the girl, you know, he's just kind of there's
kind of bullying, or you punched the guy in the face,
risking the chance that he could sue you, you know,
and that would be wrong in the sense of the law,
but you'll overcome the law because you see someone being oppressed.
So we have a little bit of that in us,
but more so we're driven by not by as he's suppressing,
(14:01):
but because it's wrong to do that. It's wrong to
do that to that woman. Correct, So that's what's driving us.
Or if we're in the Far East, it is shameful.
It would be honorable for me to stop this shameful act, correct,
you know, corre so like it depends on your paradigm.
But what's happened is now we are being driven by
oppressed oppression. There's a certain group that's being driven by
(14:24):
that and it's a very large group. So that's why
they could see Charlie Kirk as an oppressor. And if
they do see him that way, which they did, then
it doesn't matter if he's murdered. It's a shame that
he's murdered. That's the bad. I don't like it that
he's murdered, and murder is wrong. They all say it
that way, but it's worth it, but it's worth it
(14:45):
is what they're saying, so much so that at the
extreme end of that, they celebrate it because victory has
been had in the cultural paradigm.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Celebrate and I can still only see right and wrong
even and we see that.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
We can't fathom any We cannot fathom it. But guess
what they can't fathom us either, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It is because the oppression was so bad in their
mind from him.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Look at it either way, the right and wrong is
so bad in our minds that we can't see their
point of view, or the oppression is so bad in
their minds they can't see our point of view. And
that's definitely what's happening. People are posting on Amber's account.
They cannot see how Amber could be right, how could
Amber support this man and his family? And I legitimately
(15:33):
think this is debatable maybe on this podcast, but I
legitimately think those people that post on Amber's account they're
decent people, like they're law abiding, good like if you
they're they're soccer moms, and they're they have businesses and
they they they tip waiters and they you know, they
they like they're.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
The majority of their life would fit into your right wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, if you're trying to get a gift for someone
that you think has everything, how about a special video
message from me. It's easy to do. Go to cameo
dot com slash granger Smith and you put in the
prompt what you want me to say. I get that
message on my phone. I'll say happy birthday, happy anniversary,
(16:20):
whatever personalized message you want me to say to whoever
you want me to say it to. I send it
to you and you give it to them. It's pretty cool.
Go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith. Yeah, I
don't want I hesitate biblically to say good people, but
what I want to say is they're good people, right
that are saying these things that are unfathomable to us.
(16:44):
But my argument is it's when you're in that paradigm
you can't understand ours either. You couldn't understand if you're
if you're in Japan and hopefully Cantaro's listening my Japanese, right,
If you're in Japan and you're deep in you're deep
seated in an honor shame. You couldn't imagine telling the
table at the restaurant my credit card is overdrafted. I
(17:06):
can't cover it. It is utterly shameful, that's why. And
that famously in the Japanese culture they take their own
lives with the sword. The Samurais would take their own
lives before they would dare be shamed in the letting
the enemy take their lives. They would much rather commit
suicide than their life be taken by another man in battle.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And even more famous than that for us, the Kamakazi's
airplanes diving into ships using their their airplane as a
as a weapon. Because we could also say it with
the Twin Towers. They would rather destroy the enemy with
their own lives and be honored by that than to
(17:52):
be dishonored. And Americans would We don't Kamakazi. In America,
we don't take We surrender, you know, hopefully we don't.
Hopefully in Americas don't surrender. But but we would because
in our Western paradigm of right wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, the John Wade would fight until you did kill me.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, And that's the the ultimate extreme of that. I
will fight until until I die until I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It's like the Alamo, you know well, and you think
you and you see examples of it with like Mark
Marcus Littrell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know he was
going to I'll fight with everything else, everything that I have.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. So the the Alamo in Texas, yep. In a
in a Eastern paradigm, they would have all committed suicide
together in the Alamo before the Mexicans got to.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Him, because that would have been shameful.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Shameful for the enemy to take my life from me,
So I will take my life. So they fought to
the end because they were right. Wrong paradigm.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Then lay the lay the veil or the filter of
oppressed oppressor over that example.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So I'm going, I promise, I'm going somewhere I have
an answer to I'm not going to leave this podcast
without an answer because you're going they don't understand me,
and I don't understand them. And I promise everyone listening,
everyone listening right now. If you clicked on this video
or you clicked on this podcast link, you are experiencing
right now what we're talking about with someone in your circle. Yes,
(19:25):
someone related to you in some way, maybe if it's
just a friend on Facebook. You have seen someone doing
the opposite in reaction to Charlie Kirk as you could
possibly imagine, and it shocked you, and it has shocked you,
and you'll say such things as that person can't be
a Christian or that, but surely that person you'll you'll
say things with the assumption that, first of all, a
(19:48):
Christian is only someone who's repented in trust in Christ
for the salvation. Uh it would. So let's let's unpack
the the extent of what the paradigms mean when they
when they touch each other. So I wrote some of
these down. They're right wrong, I've been saying. You could
also say guilt, innocence, Okay, guilty or innocent, whether that's
(20:12):
what we see in America. Are they guiltier? In fact,
we say they're they're innocent until proven guilty. Like that's
how serious we are about it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Innocence is way more important.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Innocence is more important.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's where you error. You error on that side.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You you you everything's filtered through that. That's right. And
Jesus upholds this paradigm many times. In fact, he you
walk through the gospels and you see this guilty innocent
right wrong throughout the gospels. Jesus backs it up. Honor, shame,
(20:50):
Middle East, Mediterranean, much of Asia, right and wrong or
judged by whether behavior brings honor or shame to the
family or community. Yeah, you must maintain face, reputation, social standing,
response to wrongdoing, covering shame, restoring honor through reconciliation, sacrifice,
or sometimes revenge. Jesus covers this one too, Israel's shame
(21:16):
in their exile Christ Christ despising the shame on the cross.
Much of the Old Testament is hon or shame. It's covered, okay,
dirty clean, You could also say pure or unclean or
purity slash pollution. You see some of this in like
South Asia India. India is all about this. Sure Nepaual
(21:41):
Hindu influenced areas. Wrong is framed, is impure, polluted, defiled.
You want to stay clean, you want to avoid contamination.
You respond to this by purifying or avoiding things are
separating from the unclean. Guess what Jesus covers this one too,
(22:06):
covers all the paradigms. It's it's actually crazy where whatever
your paradigm is, when you read the Gospels, you're you
could be related, you could relate to the disciples. And
Jesus is teaching through all of this, through every paradigm
I have some examples of how Jesus addresses these, but
(22:29):
let's let's go back to the the new emerging one,
oppressed suppressor. To some extent, Jesus addresses this one too,
but not in a systematic way. You know, all this
talk of critical theory and systematic oppression or or or
the idea of being a victim. Sure you know that's
(22:51):
not that's not what we're talking about. But Jesus did
proclaim good news to the poor. He proclaimed liberty to
the captives, He released the oppressed looke for eighteen. He
condemned unjust leaders. In Matthew twenty three, he taught his
followers that true greatness is by serving. In fact, we
(23:12):
in our family worship this morning, we talked about this
that I told the kids. I said, what does it
mean to be the goat the greatest of all time?
In our culture? It means trophies and winning and talent
and money and victory. And Jesus said, the greatest among
you will be the one who serves right. So I
was trying to teach my kids, and because that's not
(23:34):
their paradigm, they don't. They don't. The gospel has to
break through for they could possibly understand how you could
be great by serving. But what happens is that in
the new idea of oppressed verse oppressor, this reduces morality
(23:55):
to power power struggle. So it makes anyone who has
money or anyone who's in a power position becomes an oppressor. Right,
it doesn't need to be said through, but it's another
conversation for another time. How Charlie Kirk has been labeled
a racist and it's a complete straw man attack on
(24:18):
everything he said. It's taking it's breaking down his argument
to a very simple wrong argument and then attacking that
wrong argument. That's what straw maning is essentially. So anything
has to do with racism and Charlie Kirk, I would
just invite someone not for this podcast for another time,
to just look at the whole argument he was making
and you'll find it was never about race.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Correct. The other problem here is that it fuels cycles
of violence. When you feel like someone's oppressing you, your
reaction is I need to stop this. And sometimes the
only way to stop something is to get violent. And
when you're your paradigm is oppressed oppressor, then once again
(25:05):
morality are right wrong comes under it, So violence is
okay as long as you're satisfying the cultural paradigm. Right,
So violence, murder, even murder, it's okay. In this instance.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
We saw a lot of this after George Floyd.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yes we did, Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
We done.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's okay to burn down a city because I felt depressed.
And they even at that time they even used the
word oppressed. This is these were oppressed people. Yes, and
it's they're just they're just lashing out. It is okay, Yes,
that's not.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So. It also leaves no room for grace because when
someone has oppressed you, there's no grace and it's very,
very hard to reconcile. I have more notes here, but
I think but we could look at it this way.
(26:09):
Jesus confronts injustice, not by violence. Never does Jesus use
violence to confront an oppressor. He sees oppression, he sees it,
and he confronts it, but never with violence. Instead of
over overthrowing his oppressors, he lays down his life for them.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
That's right, I mean, it's the So even to the
point where guards were coming to take him, and what Peter, Peter,
Peter wanted to fight.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, yes, he said no, no, no, So so So what
do we do with all this? I know I've been
talking a lot, but what do we do Well, We're
stuck with our cultural paradigms. I can't fix it. I
can't sit down and people go, well, dialogue, you know,
(27:05):
that's what Charlie Kirk wanted. Dialogue. To some extent, dialogue
doesn't break through cultural paradigms. It doesn't. And I think
we know. Anyone that's ever argued or had a discussion
with someone that has an opposite cultural paradigm with us
knows there ain't no convincing. Charlie Kirk had a big
sign that said, prove me wrong. But to some extent,
(27:26):
there are some things that just can't be proven wrong
because when your cultural paradigm is one direction, it doesn't change.
It's a mental map. It is ingrained in your cerebrum
and it will not change. It can't accept one thing.
The gospel. The Gospel is the only thing that could
(27:51):
ease a cultural paradigm. And I don't think we were
ever meant as humans to not have one. It would
be weird to not have a cultural paradigm. But what
the what the gospel does is it breaks down the
rigid walls. It just tears down, tears down the walls
of Jericho. You could say, yeah, so that so that
(28:13):
the gods as the Gospel takes root, and this is
this would be the message to the people that that celebrated.
Charlie kirksch Murder, I would say this. I would say,
look to Christ and Colossians One says that he is
the image of the invisible God, the first born of
all creation. For by him all things were created and
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions,
(28:34):
or rulers or authorities, all things were created through him
and for him. And he is before all things, even
cultural paradigms, and in him all things hold together. And
he is the head of the body of the Church.
He's the beginning, the first born from the dead, that
in everything, that in everything he might be pre eminent.
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased
(28:56):
to dwell and through him to reconcile to himself self
all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace
by the blood of his cross man. And then when
you hear that, you understand that peace comes from the
blood of his cross. He makes peace in that way,
and you, he says, who were once alienated and hostile
(29:20):
in mind doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in
his body of flesh by his death, in order to
present you holy and blameless. Who's Who's you the one
who is evil? And reproach before him if indeed you
continue in the faith stable insteadfast, not shifting from from
the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has
(29:42):
been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,
Paul the Apostle, became a minister. That is, that is
unbelievable to think that you, who were once alienated, hostile
in mind, doing evil deeds, are wa believing whatever cultural
paradigm that you believe. All of this is broken down
(30:06):
by the blood of the cross. There is peace brought
about by Jesus from the blood of the cross. Okay,
here's an interesting thought. Peace from what have you ever
thought about this? Aunt? Peace from what I'm flipping around
the bile here? Okay, Romans five gives us that answer.
(30:31):
Peace from what Jesus came to bring peace to his
people division in the world, peace to his people, correct,
But peace from what Romans five one gives us that
answer and this might be shocking to some. Therefore, since
we have been justified by faith or saved by faith,
we have peace with God. Whoa peace with God? What
(30:57):
what does he mean by that? We'll skip down to
verse nine. Since therefore we've been justified by his blood.
Much more shall we be saved by him from the
wrath of God? Verse ten? For if while we were enemies,
(31:17):
we were reconciled to God by the death of his son,
much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be
saved by his life? We are saved from the wrath
of God. Jesus came, died on the cross, became a
substitute for what we deserved, and took on that wrath
and his own body, the wrath caused by our sin
(31:38):
that has separated us from a holy God. We were
enemies before, before we're in Christ. We're enemies with God
and we need peace with him. Because you can't war
against the Holy God. You will not win that war.
So Jesus comes to make peace with the cross for
those who put their trust in him. This is the
(32:00):
only thing that breaks down these cultural paradigms.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It is it, and Paul write Ephesians, right I wrote Ephesians.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
In Ephesians four, he says, to make every effort to
keep yourselves united in the spirit, that spirit, the same spirit,
binding yourselves together with peace, binding yourselves together with peace.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Just on that same page in Ephesians two, look at
verse fourteen. What does your translations say verse fourt Epheesians
two teen.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united
Jews and Gentiles into one people, when in his own
body on the cross, he broke down the wall of
hostility that separated us.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So in the Greek it's going to say he is
our peace, not just rot. Rot makes it easy to understand.
But for he himself is our peace, who has made
us both one and has broken down in his flesh
the dividing wall of hostility. He reconciles us verse sixteen,
(33:21):
to God in one body through the cross, therefore killing
the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you
who were far off, in peace to those who were near.
It's interesting, Luke sixteen forty four is one of my
favorite verses. And Jesus said, he's giving this big dissertation,
(33:46):
and he says, I have spoken these things to you,
so that in me, you will have peace in the world.
You'll have trouble or tribulation, but hay heart or in
some timeations, but don't be afraid or don't be alarmed.
I have overcome the world. Take heart, I have overcome
(34:11):
the world. This is the only thing that breaks down
cultural paradigms, and I believe, I firmly believe that these
these cultural paradigms are will help us more to love
our neighbor and to love our enemies as we've been
called to forgive, as we have been forgiven. Because you could,
(34:32):
you don't so much see them as as having a
hostile idea against you. More so, they are in a
there I don't want to use that word trapped, because
I would have to say that of myself as well.
But they are embedded, deeply ingrained, and a certain way
(34:53):
of looking at life, just like I am. And the
only thing that breaks down my wall and their wall
the Gospel. And I can't break down their wall, but
I could break down mind through the Gospel so that
I could look to them even though they're fortified in
their wall, and I could tell them the Gospel, and
I could love them, and I could forgive them, but.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The Gospel can't break down their wall to.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
And the Gospel could break down their wall, but I
need to be able to. I need to be able
to the Gospel will take root in my life so
that my wall comes down. So it's like these two
galactic battleships with their force fields up, and the Gospel
is the only thing that breaks down the force fields.
I need my I need the Gospel to break down
(35:39):
mine so I could see that galactic battleship for what
it is, and.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
That could only happen with humility, and humility is what
you have to have before you can serve. Yeah, that's
why he calls us to serve one another.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Deny yourself and your cultural paradigms, as difficult as it
might be. So my message to someone that celebrated the
the death of Charlie Kirk, I would say that what
we saw that the murder is a is a tremendous sin,
(36:19):
and to celebrate sin would be a sin in itself.
But I, in response to that, what will also sin
by thinking evil thoughts in my heart against that person.
So my my moral high ground doesn't defeat the fact
(36:42):
that I go, you're celebrating sin. I hate you, you
know so, Jesus says, it is defeating one that one
that hates his brother murders him in his heart. The
only thing to heal all of this is I need
a new heart, and so do you. We both need
new hearts, out of which we will not get anything done.
(37:03):
Besides sin and hate and deceit and murder and lawlessness,
it just never ends. I can't take I can't take
a moral high ground. I can't because that's what they're doing.
We have to understand that the person that sees Charlie
Kirk's murder is a good thing is not doing it
because they think they're they're acting on evil ways. They
(37:25):
think they're acting on a moral high ground, right better
than mine, And they think I'm acting on evil ways
and I'm not. I think I'm taking the moral high ground.
None of this works. The force fields have to come down,
the walls of Jericho have to drop, and the only
thing that does that is the gospel taking root, recognizing
while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. A
(37:47):
Roman's fine. They Oh my goodness, I talked a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But that's my message.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
And I see this whole idea coming up more and
more as we talk through stuff, this new paradigm, as
we talked through two more podcasts going up.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, if you guys have more comments, comment below. If
you have a way, like if you're watching this on YouTube,
comment below, tell me I'm wrong, tell me you know.
Let's let's open this dialogue. And I don't know. I'm
assuming most people are on the side of the fence
of saying that the murder was horrible, but we might
have a few people listening to go, no, it was justified.
I want to hear from both of you, and and
(38:28):
and I pray that the gospel takes root in everyone. Yeah,
and I think it's it's certainly murder is not right
in any in any situation. So yeah, ay man, love
you guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with
me on this episode of the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate
(38:49):
you being here. If you're listing right now, go ahead
and rate today's podcast. It helps more folks find the show.
And if you're tuning in on the iHeartRadio app, you
could actually set this podcast as one of your presets,
which is cool that way, I'm just one tap away.
If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to hit like
and subscribe so you don't miss any new episodes. And
if you've got a question you want answered right here
on the show, just email me podcast at grangersmith dot com.
(39:11):
I'd love to hear from you. Thanks again for being here.
We'll see you next time, ye ye
If you celebrated in any way the murder of Charlie Kirk,
I have an important message to tell you today on
the podcast Okay, heavy topic today we're going to cover
(00:23):
and we man sitting with me, we have not done
a whole lot of research here. We're going to just
speak and see what comes out, because we've got a
lot of thoughts, and we're going to use the Bible,
and we're going to use some comments we've seen on
social media, and we're going to try to help kind
of bridge the gap of understanding as we see completely
(00:49):
different schools of ideas here in America recently this past
month of what a month, this past September was for
us as we saw how so many things happen, but
including the remembrance of nine to eleven in the middle
of everything else that we saw, specifically thinking about the
(01:10):
murder of Charlie Kirk and people that have celebrated this murder.
And by no means am I what I'm not trying
to rile up an ant bed here. I'm not trying
to as ant man sitting with me, I'm not trying
to rally troops. That's not what I'm doing To say,
we need to rise up against people that have celebrated
(01:33):
a murder or that have protested a funeral memorial. That's
not what this podcast is about. If that's why you
came to this podcast because of the title, then you
could this might not be of interest to you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You should listen.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You should listen because I want to specifically want to
speak to the person that is celebrating the murder. I
have something to say about this, and so we're gonna
get to it. You you mentioned, and for instance, you
mentioned a video today as we're sitting here that of
a mother and a couple daughters, two daughters. Tell us,
(02:09):
tell me that story.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
The video is of you don't see the mom. The
mom's holding the phone and she says to her two daughters.
They look they're young, old enough to talk and know
kind of what's going on.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
At least.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
The mom says, I have the best news. And the
girls are smiling already, and one of them goes, the
president's dead, and the mom giggles and says, no, guess again,
(02:45):
and either the same girl or one of the other
girls says the vice President's dead. No no thing. What
would be like the best news in the world. I've
turned it off of that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You don't know what that was about.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean there's so much happening right now that
and during that time that I was like, Okay, I've
had a I get what this is about.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Move on.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
But I saw continually popping up, people redoing it. And
then I saw a mom that started with that, and
then she goes, hang on a second. She walks down
to her daughter's room and their kids are is in
the living room. The kids are in the living room
and ask one kid, Hey, I have the best news.
Can you guess what it is? And the kid's like,
(03:32):
I don't know. The mom goes, yes, it's the best news.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Ever, trying to recreate the first video, like as a joke. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And the kid says, we're having pizza tonight now, which
one of those seems more normal. And the point that
the second mom was trying to point out was this
is a normal reaction from a child. If your child's
(04:02):
first response is the president is dead, there's way more
going on.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
There's way more going on. It's something that's taught. Both
the pizza and the president are something that that's kind
of cultivated. So let's dive into this what we're doing.
The only way we could explain this and this is
it kept me going a little bit because because I
love Amber, my wife, and she has a book coming
(04:29):
out in October, and she posted a book club invitation
for her book on her Instagram. Yeah, and these comments
started coming in for that invitation talking about her previous
post in support of in memory of Charlie Kirk, and
(04:50):
they're like, I can no longer support your book, which
has nothing to do with any of that. I can
no longer support your book because now I know that
you have supported Charlie Kirk, who is you know, a
racist and a bigot. And then da da da da
da you know, so you know, and I see that
and there are like long explanations and I see it
and I get inside me. My flesh gets riled up.
(05:10):
I'm like, what you're talking about? My wife? You know?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
And I can't understand. I can't comprehend why Amber could
be in support of the family of Charlie Kirk and
the gospel message of Charlie Kirk and how she could
post that and support of that and love for that,
you know, and that someone could think from Amber that's hating,
(05:37):
that is that is to hate others. That is, that
is for Amber to say that is to be racist.
I can't understand that, but that's because I have a
different cultural paradigm. And this is the only way, This
is the only explanation, and I'll explain this. That could
help us understand why we could look at at our
(05:59):
neighbor or that lives in our same city, are on
the same street as we do, that might have that
might watch the same Saturday morning cartoons as we did
when we were ten years old. How they could think
something that is so foreign to our brain. And that's
(06:21):
because we have a shift in cultural paradigms. Let me explain.
A cultural paradigm is a deep seated assumption or value
or pattern that shapes how people in a particular society think, act,
and relate to one another. These paradigms influence everything from
communication styles and leadership to family life, religion, and economics.
(06:46):
They are not just surface customs like clothing or hairstyles.
They are mental maps that entire groups of people live by.
That's a cultural paradigm. The interesting thing about this, the
current situation, is that we are seeing a paradigm shift
within a culture itself. And that's because possibly because we're
(07:09):
in the melting pot of the United States, where we
all are very, very different, and we have very polarizing
political opinions right now, and it's been so polarizing over
the last couple decades that we have there is become
now a paradigm shift within the culture. And I say
(07:30):
that again because usually cultural paradigms are based on countries
or continents or sometimes communities, right, but rarely split within
a community. But I think we're so confused right now
because we're seeing a paradigm shift within the community. I
first started thinking about this well seminary. We we've talked
(07:52):
a lot about cultural paradigms throughout the world. And the
beautiful thing about cultural paradigms is that g Is in
the Gospels perfectly answers all of the major cultural paradigms
throughout the Gospels. I'll explain that. But the new one
that's that has has now shown its face here in America.
(08:14):
I first started thinking about this from a a pastor
named Josh Howardton. We've talked about him a little bit
on this podcast. Yeah, he talked about a new cultural
paradigm that's built on top of the critical theory that
is now the paradigm is and let me let me
(08:35):
back up just a second, say that that you're ant
man me and you our cultural paradigm would essentially be
right verse.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Wrong, which when we first started talking about this, I
thought it is there is there another one?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's you would say, is there another one? Because
because it's a mental map for you, it is a
deep seated assumption. Is that in a definition or value
or pattern that has shaped the way you think, So
you think it's a filter. In the West, it's a
filter that you must see everything through. There is no
(09:11):
erasing a cultural paradigm. Right, It's part of your your everything,
it's part of your mental vision. So you see everything
through the lens of right verse wrong, and so do I,
and so to probably a lot of people listening, unless
you're from, for instance, to far East and you see
it through the lens of honor verse shame. And maybe
(09:34):
you're in the Middle East and you see it in
terms of dirty verse clean are impure verse pure.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Same thing, right dirty versus clean dirty?
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, dirty clean improor impure verse pure. And then and
we see a lot like like Japanese, Chinese Korean will
will live strongly with honor shame. Sure now our cultural paradigm,
it out trumps the our moral compass. It becomes our
moral compass. Sure you should say so. For instance, let's
(10:08):
think of a hypothetical situation and a cultural paradigm. This
is all back seminary work a few years ago. If
I if as as a right wrong paradigm guy, and
a lot of it's because I live in the West
and most of us are here in America. If I
go to a If I go to a restaurant and
(10:29):
I'm I'm sitting there eating a meal, I'm just making
this up. I'm eating a meal at a restaurant and
I'm friends with me, and I get a I get
a notification that says your credit card has is now overdrafted,
so we're going to shut down your credit card temporarily,
(10:52):
and I'm going to buy this meal for everyone in America.
Because I'm a right wrong guy, I would go, Guys,
I messed up. I have overdrafted my card. Can anybody
spot me? It's embarrassing, but I'll then know you later.
(11:15):
But can you just get me out of this hole
and cover me? And no one at the table would
be like what an idiot. They'd be like, yeah, bro,
I got you right. Wrong, because it would be wrong
to do it any another way. But if we're in Asia, right,
if that's not my cultural paradigm, if my paradigm is
(11:36):
hon or shame, I will do anything I can to
avoid shame. So I would say something like, guys, I'll
handle this. I'll go ahead and pay for the meal.
Y'all want to go ahead and go out to the
parking lot and get the car. I'll meet you outside.
They go out, I snink off to the restroom. I
go out the back door. I meet them in the
parking lot. All good, guys, let's go. I stole the meal.
(12:00):
In America, we'd say that's wrong, right, But in Asia,
it doesn't matter. If I'm wrong, I would never shame
my family. That would be shameful. It would be honorable
to just walk out the back door and make it
go away. I can't understand that an American in an
American way. It's very difficult, but we have to understand
(12:21):
cultural paradigms are deep seated. Yeah, okay, so I think
that's kind of like an overview Josh Howarton back to him.
There's a new one in America. It is oppressed versus oppressor.
So once again, a cultural paradigm will outweigh anything else morality, right, wrong, honor, shame.
(12:43):
If that's yours, whatever yours is, it outweighs all the others.
So if your idea is that someone that's oppressing another person,
then that person must be eliminated at all costs, regardless
of morals, regardless of right and wrong. That's irrelevant if
it's not your. Now, everyone has a little bit of
(13:04):
every cultural paradigm has a little of all of it.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yeah, for us, wrong would be shameful, would be shameful
to do something wrong. Yes, so you do have a
little bit of what we consider like an Eastern culture.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, we all had a little bit of it. So,
like if you're driving by a dark alley and you
see some guys beaten up on a girl, they're oppressing her,
sure you'd stop the car, correct and you would punch
the guy in the face, even though that could be
wrong in the sense of the law. You could be
breaking the law by punching a guy and he hasn't
(13:39):
touched the girl, you know, he's just kind of there's
kind of bullying, or you punched the guy in the face,
risking the chance that he could sue you, you know,
and that would be wrong in the sense of the law,
but you'll overcome the law because you see someone being oppressed.
So we have a little bit of that in us,
but more so we're driven by not by as he's suppressing,
(14:01):
but because it's wrong to do that. It's wrong to
do that to that woman. Correct, So that's what's driving us.
Or if we're in the Far East, it is shameful.
It would be honorable for me to stop this shameful act, correct,
you know, corre so like it depends on your paradigm.
But what's happened is now we are being driven by
oppressed oppression. There's a certain group that's being driven by
(14:24):
that and it's a very large group. So that's why
they could see Charlie Kirk as an oppressor. And if
they do see him that way, which they did, then
it doesn't matter if he's murdered. It's a shame that
he's murdered. That's the bad. I don't like it that
he's murdered, and murder is wrong. They all say it
that way, but it's worth it, but it's worth it
(14:45):
is what they're saying, so much so that at the
extreme end of that, they celebrate it because victory has
been had in the cultural paradigm.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Celebrate and I can still only see right and wrong
even and we see that.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
We can't fathom any We cannot fathom it. But guess
what they can't fathom us either, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
It is because the oppression was so bad in their
mind from him.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Look at it either way, the right and wrong is
so bad in our minds that we can't see their
point of view, or the oppression is so bad in
their minds they can't see our point of view. And
that's definitely what's happening. People are posting on Amber's account.
They cannot see how Amber could be right, how could
Amber support this man and his family? And I legitimately
(15:33):
think this is debatable maybe on this podcast, but I
legitimately think those people that post on Amber's account they're
decent people, like they're law abiding, good like if you
they're they're soccer moms, and they're they have businesses and
they they they tip waiters and they you know, they
they like they're.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
The majority of their life would fit into your right wrong.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, if you're trying to get a gift for someone
that you think has everything, how about a special video
message from me. It's easy to do. Go to cameo
dot com slash granger Smith and you put in the
prompt what you want me to say. I get that
message on my phone. I'll say happy birthday, happy anniversary,
(16:20):
whatever personalized message you want me to say to whoever
you want me to say it to. I send it
to you and you give it to them. It's pretty cool.
Go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith. Yeah, I
don't want I hesitate biblically to say good people, but
what I want to say is they're good people, right
that are saying these things that are unfathomable to us.
(16:44):
But my argument is it's when you're in that paradigm
you can't understand ours either. You couldn't understand if you're
if you're in Japan and hopefully Cantaro's listening my Japanese, right,
If you're in Japan and you're deep in you're deep
seated in an honor shame. You couldn't imagine telling the
table at the restaurant my credit card is overdrafted. I
(17:06):
can't cover it. It is utterly shameful, that's why. And
that famously in the Japanese culture they take their own
lives with the sword. The Samurais would take their own
lives before they would dare be shamed in the letting
the enemy take their lives. They would much rather commit
suicide than their life be taken by another man in battle.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
And even more famous than that for us, the Kamakazi's
airplanes diving into ships using their their airplane as a
as a weapon. Because we could also say it with
the Twin Towers. They would rather destroy the enemy with
their own lives and be honored by that than to
(17:52):
be dishonored. And Americans would We don't Kamakazi. In America,
we don't take We surrender, you know, hopefully we don't.
Hopefully in Americas don't surrender. But but we would because
in our Western paradigm of right wrong.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, the John Wade would fight until you did kill me.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah, And that's the the ultimate extreme of that. I
will fight until until I die until I don't.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
It's like the Alamo, you know well, and you think
you and you see examples of it with like Mark
Marcus Littrell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know he was
going to I'll fight with everything else, everything that I have.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah. So the the Alamo in Texas, yep. In a
in a Eastern paradigm, they would have all committed suicide
together in the Alamo before the Mexicans got to.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Him, because that would have been shameful.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Shameful for the enemy to take my life from me,
So I will take my life. So they fought to
the end because they were right. Wrong paradigm.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Then lay the lay the veil or the filter of
oppressed oppressor over that example.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
So I'm going, I promise, I'm going somewhere I have
an answer to I'm not going to leave this podcast
without an answer because you're going they don't understand me,
and I don't understand them. And I promise everyone listening,
everyone listening right now. If you clicked on this video
or you clicked on this podcast link, you are experiencing
right now what we're talking about with someone in your circle. Yes,
(19:25):
someone related to you in some way, maybe if it's
just a friend on Facebook. You have seen someone doing
the opposite in reaction to Charlie Kirk as you could
possibly imagine, and it shocked you, and it has shocked you,
and you'll say such things as that person can't be
a Christian or that, but surely that person you'll you'll
say things with the assumption that, first of all, a
(19:48):
Christian is only someone who's repented in trust in Christ
for the salvation. Uh it would. So let's let's unpack
the the extent of what the paradigms mean when they
when they touch each other. So I wrote some of
these down. They're right wrong, I've been saying. You could
also say guilt, innocence, Okay, guilty or innocent, whether that's
(20:12):
what we see in America. Are they guiltier? In fact,
we say they're they're innocent until proven guilty. Like that's
how serious we are about it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Innocence is way more important.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Innocence is more important.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's where you error. You error on that side.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You you you everything's filtered through that. That's right. And
Jesus upholds this paradigm many times. In fact, he you
walk through the gospels and you see this guilty innocent
right wrong throughout the gospels. Jesus backs it up. Honor, shame,
(20:50):
Middle East, Mediterranean, much of Asia, right and wrong or
judged by whether behavior brings honor or shame to the
family or community. Yeah, you must maintain face, reputation, social standing,
response to wrongdoing, covering shame, restoring honor through reconciliation, sacrifice,
or sometimes revenge. Jesus covers this one too, Israel's shame
(21:16):
in their exile Christ Christ despising the shame on the cross.
Much of the Old Testament is hon or shame. It's covered, okay,
dirty clean, You could also say pure or unclean or
purity slash pollution. You see some of this in like
South Asia India. India is all about this. Sure Nepaual
(21:41):
Hindu influenced areas. Wrong is framed, is impure, polluted, defiled.
You want to stay clean, you want to avoid contamination.
You respond to this by purifying or avoiding things are
separating from the unclean. Guess what Jesus covers this one too,
(22:06):
covers all the paradigms. It's it's actually crazy where whatever
your paradigm is, when you read the Gospels, you're you
could be related, you could relate to the disciples. And
Jesus is teaching through all of this, through every paradigm
I have some examples of how Jesus addresses these, but
(22:29):
let's let's go back to the the new emerging one,
oppressed suppressor. To some extent, Jesus addresses this one too,
but not in a systematic way. You know, all this
talk of critical theory and systematic oppression or or or
the idea of being a victim. Sure you know that's
(22:51):
not that's not what we're talking about. But Jesus did
proclaim good news to the poor. He proclaimed liberty to
the captives, He released the oppressed looke for eighteen. He
condemned unjust leaders. In Matthew twenty three, he taught his
followers that true greatness is by serving. In fact, we
(23:12):
in our family worship this morning, we talked about this
that I told the kids. I said, what does it
mean to be the goat the greatest of all time?
In our culture? It means trophies and winning and talent
and money and victory. And Jesus said, the greatest among
you will be the one who serves right. So I
was trying to teach my kids, and because that's not
(23:34):
their paradigm, they don't. They don't. The gospel has to
break through for they could possibly understand how you could
be great by serving. But what happens is that in
the new idea of oppressed verse oppressor, this reduces morality
(23:55):
to power power struggle. So it makes anyone who has
money or anyone who's in a power position becomes an oppressor. Right,
it doesn't need to be said through, but it's another
conversation for another time. How Charlie Kirk has been labeled
a racist and it's a complete straw man attack on
(24:18):
everything he said. It's taking it's breaking down his argument
to a very simple wrong argument and then attacking that
wrong argument. That's what straw maning is essentially. So anything
has to do with racism and Charlie Kirk, I would
just invite someone not for this podcast for another time,
to just look at the whole argument he was making
and you'll find it was never about race.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Correct. The other problem here is that it fuels cycles
of violence. When you feel like someone's oppressing you, your
reaction is I need to stop this. And sometimes the
only way to stop something is to get violent. And
when you're your paradigm is oppressed oppressor, then once again
(25:05):
morality are right wrong comes under it, So violence is
okay as long as you're satisfying the cultural paradigm. Right,
So violence, murder, even murder, it's okay. In this instance.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
We saw a lot of this after George Floyd.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yes we did, Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
We done.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
It's okay to burn down a city because I felt depressed.
And they even at that time they even used the
word oppressed. This is these were oppressed people. Yes, and
it's they're just they're just lashing out. It is okay, Yes,
that's not.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So. It also leaves no room for grace because when
someone has oppressed you, there's no grace and it's very,
very hard to reconcile. I have more notes here, but
I think but we could look at it this way.
(26:09):
Jesus confronts injustice, not by violence. Never does Jesus use
violence to confront an oppressor. He sees oppression, he sees it,
and he confronts it, but never with violence. Instead of
over overthrowing his oppressors, he lays down his life for them.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
That's right, I mean, it's the So even to the
point where guards were coming to take him, and what Peter, Peter,
Peter wanted to fight.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yes, yes, he said no, no, no, So so So what
do we do with all this? I know I've been
talking a lot, but what do we do Well, We're
stuck with our cultural paradigms. I can't fix it. I
can't sit down and people go, well, dialogue, you know,
(27:05):
that's what Charlie Kirk wanted. Dialogue. To some extent, dialogue
doesn't break through cultural paradigms. It doesn't. And I think
we know. Anyone that's ever argued or had a discussion
with someone that has an opposite cultural paradigm with us
knows there ain't no convincing. Charlie Kirk had a big
sign that said, prove me wrong. But to some extent,
(27:26):
there are some things that just can't be proven wrong
because when your cultural paradigm is one direction, it doesn't change.
It's a mental map. It is ingrained in your cerebrum
and it will not change. It can't accept one thing.
The gospel. The Gospel is the only thing that could
(27:51):
ease a cultural paradigm. And I don't think we were
ever meant as humans to not have one. It would
be weird to not have a cultural paradigm. But what
the what the gospel does is it breaks down the
rigid walls. It just tears down, tears down the walls
of Jericho. You could say, yeah, so that so that
(28:13):
the gods as the Gospel takes root, and this is
this would be the message to the people that that celebrated.
Charlie kirksch Murder, I would say this. I would say,
look to Christ and Colossians One says that he is
the image of the invisible God, the first born of
all creation. For by him all things were created and
heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions,
(28:34):
or rulers or authorities, all things were created through him
and for him. And he is before all things, even
cultural paradigms, and in him all things hold together. And
he is the head of the body of the Church.
He's the beginning, the first born from the dead, that
in everything, that in everything he might be pre eminent.
For in him all the fullness of God was pleased
(28:56):
to dwell and through him to reconcile to himself self
all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace
by the blood of his cross man. And then when
you hear that, you understand that peace comes from the
blood of his cross. He makes peace in that way,
and you, he says, who were once alienated and hostile
(29:20):
in mind doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in
his body of flesh by his death, in order to
present you holy and blameless. Who's Who's you the one
who is evil? And reproach before him if indeed you
continue in the faith stable insteadfast, not shifting from from
the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has
(29:42):
been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,
Paul the Apostle, became a minister. That is, that is
unbelievable to think that you, who were once alienated, hostile
in mind, doing evil deeds, are wa believing whatever cultural
paradigm that you believe. All of this is broken down
(30:06):
by the blood of the cross. There is peace brought
about by Jesus from the blood of the cross. Okay,
here's an interesting thought. Peace from what have you ever
thought about this? Aunt? Peace from what I'm flipping around
the bile here? Okay, Romans five gives us that answer.
(30:31):
Peace from what Jesus came to bring peace to his
people division in the world, peace to his people, correct,
But peace from what Romans five one gives us that
answer and this might be shocking to some. Therefore, since
we have been justified by faith or saved by faith,
we have peace with God. Whoa peace with God? What
(30:57):
what does he mean by that? We'll skip down to
verse nine. Since therefore we've been justified by his blood.
Much more shall we be saved by him from the
wrath of God? Verse ten? For if while we were enemies,
(31:17):
we were reconciled to God by the death of his son,
much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be
saved by his life? We are saved from the wrath
of God. Jesus came, died on the cross, became a
substitute for what we deserved, and took on that wrath
and his own body, the wrath caused by our sin
(31:38):
that has separated us from a holy God. We were
enemies before, before we're in Christ. We're enemies with God
and we need peace with him. Because you can't war
against the Holy God. You will not win that war.
So Jesus comes to make peace with the cross for
those who put their trust in him. This is the
(32:00):
only thing that breaks down these cultural paradigms.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
It is it, and Paul write Ephesians, right I wrote Ephesians.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
In Ephesians four, he says, to make every effort to
keep yourselves united in the spirit, that spirit, the same spirit,
binding yourselves together with peace, binding yourselves together with peace.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Just on that same page in Ephesians two, look at
verse fourteen. What does your translations say verse fourt Epheesians
two teen.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united
Jews and Gentiles into one people, when in his own
body on the cross, he broke down the wall of
hostility that separated us.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
So in the Greek it's going to say he is
our peace, not just rot. Rot makes it easy to understand.
But for he himself is our peace, who has made
us both one and has broken down in his flesh
the dividing wall of hostility. He reconciles us verse sixteen,
(33:21):
to God in one body through the cross, therefore killing
the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you
who were far off, in peace to those who were near.
It's interesting, Luke sixteen forty four is one of my
favorite verses. And Jesus said, he's giving this big dissertation,
(33:46):
and he says, I have spoken these things to you,
so that in me, you will have peace in the world.
You'll have trouble or tribulation, but hay heart or in
some timeations, but don't be afraid or don't be alarmed.
I have overcome the world. Take heart, I have overcome
(34:11):
the world. This is the only thing that breaks down
cultural paradigms, and I believe, I firmly believe that these
these cultural paradigms are will help us more to love
our neighbor and to love our enemies as we've been
called to forgive, as we have been forgiven. Because you could,
(34:32):
you don't so much see them as as having a
hostile idea against you. More so, they are in a
there I don't want to use that word trapped, because
I would have to say that of myself as well.
But they are embedded, deeply ingrained, and a certain way
(34:53):
of looking at life, just like I am. And the
only thing that breaks down my wall and their wall
the Gospel. And I can't break down their wall, but
I could break down mind through the Gospel so that
I could look to them even though they're fortified in
their wall, and I could tell them the Gospel, and
I could love them, and I could forgive them, but.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
The Gospel can't break down their wall to.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
And the Gospel could break down their wall, but I
need to be able to. I need to be able
to the Gospel will take root in my life so
that my wall comes down. So it's like these two
galactic battleships with their force fields up, and the Gospel
is the only thing that breaks down the force fields.
I need my I need the Gospel to break down
(35:39):
mine so I could see that galactic battleship for what
it is, and.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
That could only happen with humility, and humility is what
you have to have before you can serve. Yeah, that's
why he calls us to serve one another.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Deny yourself and your cultural paradigms, as difficult as it
might be. So my message to someone that celebrated the
the death of Charlie Kirk, I would say that what
we saw that the murder is a is a tremendous sin,
(36:19):
and to celebrate sin would be a sin in itself.
But I, in response to that, what will also sin
by thinking evil thoughts in my heart against that person.
So my my moral high ground doesn't defeat the fact
(36:42):
that I go, you're celebrating sin. I hate you, you
know so, Jesus says, it is defeating one that one
that hates his brother murders him in his heart. The
only thing to heal all of this is I need
a new heart, and so do you. We both need
new hearts, out of which we will not get anything done.
(37:03):
Besides sin and hate and deceit and murder and lawlessness,
it just never ends. I can't take I can't take
a moral high ground. I can't because that's what they're doing.
We have to understand that the person that sees Charlie
Kirk's murder is a good thing is not doing it
because they think they're they're acting on evil ways. They
(37:25):
think they're acting on a moral high ground, right better
than mine, And they think I'm acting on evil ways
and I'm not. I think I'm taking the moral high ground.
None of this works. The force fields have to come down,
the walls of Jericho have to drop, and the only
thing that does that is the gospel taking root, recognizing
while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. A
(37:47):
Roman's fine. They Oh my goodness, I talked a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But that's my message.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
And I see this whole idea coming up more and
more as we talk through stuff, this new paradigm, as
we talked through two more podcasts going up.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, if you guys have more comments, comment below. If
you have a way, like if you're watching this on YouTube,
comment below, tell me I'm wrong, tell me you know.
Let's let's open this dialogue. And I don't know. I'm
assuming most people are on the side of the fence
of saying that the murder was horrible, but we might
have a few people listening to go, no, it was justified.
I want to hear from both of you, and and
(38:28):
and I pray that the gospel takes root in everyone. Yeah,
and I think it's it's certainly murder is not right
in any in any situation. So yeah, ay man, love
you guys. Thank you so much for hanging out with
me on this episode of the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate
(38:49):
you being here. If you're listing right now, go ahead
and rate today's podcast. It helps more folks find the show.
And if you're tuning in on the iHeartRadio app, you
could actually set this podcast as one of your presets,
which is cool that way, I'm just one tap away.
If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to hit like
and subscribe so you don't miss any new episodes. And
if you've got a question you want answered right here
on the show, just email me podcast at grangersmith dot com.
(39:11):
I'd love to hear from you. Thanks again for being here.
We'll see you next time, ye ye
Host
Granger Smith
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