April 9, 2024 • 38 mins
So your friends are getting married, and they’ve asked you to stand up at their wedding. . . in some ways, this can be a rite of passage for many grown-ups. It can feel like an honor. But it can also be a lot to take on, too. What are the actual expectations of a wedding attendant (i.e. bridesmaid, groomsman, MOH, or best man)?
Lizzie Post from the Emily Post Institute returns to the podcast to teach Molly and Matt about the roles and responsibilities of a wedding party: Who’s included, what to budget for, and which events you actually need to attend.
Cited Sources:
- “21 Surprising Historical Duties of the Wedding Party” - Mental Floss
- “Couples Spend an Average of $33,391 on Weddings, Incorporating Cultural, Religious and Personalized Elements, According to The Knot 2017 Real Weddings Study” The Knot World Wide
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's wedding season once again. This time last year we
discussed what's expected of us as wedding guests, But how
do those expectations change when we graduate from just a
guest to a member of the wedding party. The role
of attendant in a wedding has evolved a lot over
the years. Jendall, author of the book Save the Date
(00:26):
The Occasional Mortifications of a Serial Wedding Guest, has written
about the origins and many previous iterations of the wedding
party for mental floss, and she says in ancient Rome,
it was required to have a wedding party of at
least ten people, five on each side, and to dress
them identically to the bride and groom, in order to
confuse malevolent spirits, enemies, or disapproving gods who wished to
(00:51):
cause the couple harm and on the darker side of things.
Dole also writes that the role of the best man
likely evolved from sixteenth century to Manic Gothic practices where
the bride was often kidnapped from her family in a
neighboring community, so the best man was often the best
swordsman for the job of stealing the bride and fending
(01:11):
off her protective family and friends. Other histories of bridesmaids
point to the biblical wedding of Leah and Rachel to
Jacob as the origins of bridesmaids, as each brought their
own quote unquote made with them. Today, the role of
wedding attendant is more symbolic. Being a part of a
wedding party is a way for the couple getting married
(01:32):
to publicly announce their close connections with the people standing
beside them. When a bride or groom asks you to
be in their wedding, they're telling you your friendship has
staying power and longevity. These important friendships are also not
gender exclusive, which is why attendants are no longer gender specific.
It's become commonplace to have co ed teams standing on
(01:53):
both sides of the couple. With all of the newer
wedding party practices and rituals, what are the modern day
responsibilities of the attendance and more importantly, what should we
expect to budget for if we're going to take the
public role of top friend. Start taking notes because this
is stuff. Welcome friends, one and all to grown up
(02:19):
stuff How to Adult. The podcast where we figure out
whether or not we're expected to make a speech at
our cousin's wedding, and many other adult life lessons. As always,
I am joined by everyone's best man, a true man
of honor. Matthew stillow, you were actually the best man
in your brother's nuptials. Is that the first time you've
(02:39):
been a part of a wedding party? And what was
your understanding of that role going into it?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well, thankfully, I'd had the chance to do it once
before with one of my closest friends, so I had
a sort of like blueprint for how it would go.
But it was a little bit more intense for my
brother because we're twins. He was marrying his high school sweetheart,
who was also one of my closest friends. Yeah, so
I wanted to be sure to honor that both. But
you know, you see movies like The Hangover Part one,
two and three years Friend's wedding, my best friend's wedding,
(03:06):
and you have like this, you know, inflated idea of
what is expected if you got throw the bachelor party
and you gotta go to Vegas, and it's got to
be crazy. So I was really just thinking about the
speech and the party. But it turns out there are
a lot of things to consider before asking whoever you
want to ask and accepting if you are asked. But
I'm curious to hear about you. You know, we talked
(03:26):
about you may have been in some wedding parties, you
may not have vised, like, what is the story there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I've only officially been in two wedding parties where I've
been a bridesmaid, one of which the intent was to
make me the maid of honor. But the problem was
is that I was underage, and because I think there
was like this expectation that like the maid of honor
would throw the bachelorette. So it's like, a, I wouldn't
really be able to go to the bachelorette. I was
also still in school, so I was just like broke
(03:52):
as hell, so I like wouldn't be able to like
plan anything. But if the wedding party is a major
supporting role, then I guess I was minor supporting role.
And other weddings, but those are also weddings where I
was kind of a little I gotta be honest, I
was a little heartbroken and very disappointed I wasn't asked
to be in the actual wedding.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Party more of real life adult dramas. Yeah, he's not
going to be involved in the wedding party.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, but I think that there's always just so much
confusion about like, what yeah, actually expected of you.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, today we will hopefully get a lot of clarity
about what it means to be in a wedding party,
because our resident Queen of Etiquette, Lizzie Post, returns to
set the record straight on what you need to show
up to and pay for as a member of a
groom or bridle party.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes, I love Lizzie and I am so excited to
have her back on the podcast. She is an author
and an etiquette expert who has written about everything from
brushing your teeth in the office to hosting the perfect
cannabis dinner party Delightful.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Lizzie is the great great granddaughter of Emily Post, the
woman who literally wrote the book on etiquette, and Lizzie
wrote the updated version of her great great grandmother's work
in Emily Posts Etiquette, the Centennial Edition. Plus. She is
the co president of the Emily Post Institute and the
co host of the podcast Awesome Etiquette.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Lizzie also wrote Emily Post's Wedding Etiquette sixth edition and
joined us last season to help us explain proper etiquette
as a wedding guest and shared some valuable gems with us,
like don't wear all white unless it's requested by the couple.
And if your invitation envelope doesn't say and guests, you
do not get a plus one. Lizzie, thank you so
(05:32):
much once again for joining us on grown up stuff.
How do adults? This time we're talking about wedding parties,
and we want to kick it off by asking you
what is the modern day purpose of a wedding party?
Like why why?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's a great question, and I have to say, when
I fantasize about my own wedding, I dream of no
wedding party.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Interesting, controversial opinion, same same.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
One of my dear friends, Emily, was one of my
first friends to get married. I was blown away when
I attended her wedding and there was no bridal party.
I'd never seen that before, and I thought it looked amazing.
I thought it made it so special. But that was
my opinion. There are other folks when they get married
(06:18):
where they want their nearest and dearest standing right by
their side for that sentiment of support. It's really your
wedding and it's up to you whether you choose to
participate in this tradition and how you participate in it.
And I wanted to start out saying that because one
of the things couples really have to consider when it
(06:41):
comes to the bridal party nowadays is the potential burden
that it can place on them. This is not an
inexpensive thing. This is not something that only takes a
single weekend to accomplish. The support of and the participation in.
It's a lot. And I think as a couple, getting
(07:04):
really really crystal clear on if you choose to have
attendance what you are expecting of them in terms of
participation is gonna make it so easy to ask them
in a way that gives them the whole lay of
the land and they can say yes or no as
to whether they can participate. And like that is my biggest,
(07:26):
biggest piece of advice to anyone around a wedding is
really think about what you're asking someone to do and
participate in, not the honor of it. The honor is
so there, and you want that sentiment to be there.
Do you have to be realistic about just how big
this ask is and just so you know, friends, you
get to say, I totally understand that's your wish, but no,
(07:48):
you know what I mean, like I can't participate.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It well, also important as the person asking to consider
where your friend is at in their life for real.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, I could literally talk about that for the next hour.
We're like and horror stories of where it's gone wrong
and people trying to be polite but instead not expressing
what they really want and then holding it against people later.
I mean, it's it is a mess when it comes
to bridal parties sometimes, but it's this beautiful, supportive, fun
thing that I think a lot of people bond over
(08:19):
and I want that to be like the shining element
that comes through if you want to have a bridal party.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
In twenty eighteen, the average number of attendants on either
side was five, and that was up from the average
of four in two thousand and seven, and that's according
to the NOT Worldwide. Many wedding planners expect to see
that number rise. However, in other Western countries like Italy
or Germany, the couple getting married are expected to pay
(08:51):
for the attire for the bridal party, so the sizes
are often limited to one procid Over there, you talked
a bit about who you need to think about when
you're actually putting together that wedding party. Are there people
who you really should be including in that wedding party?
Do you feel like there's an obligation to include, like,
for example, future partner siblings.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
First of all, it's your wedding, and if you have
a really horrendous relationship with that person, etiquette is not
going to twist your arm and say that you must
or you can't walk down that aisle missy. That's just
not how it operates. If you have a bad relationship
with someone, you do not have to extend this honor
(09:35):
to them. We think that, especially when it comes to
siblings of your partner, that extending those olive branches and saying,
you know, would you like to be one of my
attendants is really thoughtful. But nowadays a lot of folks
will just ask the people they care the most about
to stand with them. So the gender doesn't matter, that
(09:57):
age doesn't matter. I think what you I want to
really look for people who are capable of doing it.
Sometimes folks worry, oh, we can't ask Beth, she's pregnant.
You can definitely ask Beth like it is fine for
Beth to be pregnant up there.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So you said there's no expectation for age, Like there's
no such thing as a minimum age required for like
bride's person or groom's person. Is there's no like age
limit for like a flower person or a ring bearer?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Can I be a thirty four year old flower boy?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, you cannot. You just have to find the right
couple who wants you to play that role.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I got a role for you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So it's I will say, typically we choose our peers.
Typically you're choosing folks that are kind of like your
best friends and your your siblings. But you know, all
kinds of different families and relationships form in life. And
if your mother is your best friend, who the heck
is Emily Post to say? You can't have your mother
(11:00):
stand next to you? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
And I see those couples who do they get married
and their children that they've had prior to this marriage
are the attendants for that wedding, and it's a beautiful,
really all inclusive family event. Some of those kids are
three You know, it's like, I really don't think that
there is an age limit. I think it's more the
connection to the person and the purpose in asking them
(11:25):
that really matters. That's the honor of the tradition.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, let's stick to breaking down a little bit more so.
Obviously we've got the best man, we've got the maid
of honor. But who else is technically a part of
the official wedding party? Because there is a person who
may not be on this podcast with us right now,
who feels that because she was a bouncer at a
wedding or two, that she was a part of the
wedding party.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think I was Could this person be wrong? You
were a bouncer, Yeah, I have to hand out programs
and keep people out of the venue while they were
taking photos of just the bride and the group.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Oh so I would say you were a part of
the crew. I really do think that anyone who is
someone who has to be given instructions on how to
help other guests, I think that's someone who's a part
of the crew.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
You're a part of all of the supporting roles. Okay, okay,
the parents of the couple are not in the wedding party.
They're not a part of Valley. No, at least I
don't think of them as that. I think of them
as the family. It's like a different subset in my
own head. There are pictures with the parents and the
wedding party. But when we at least at Emily Post,
(12:38):
when we talk about that wedding party, we're talking about
the attendants and when we say things like bridal attendance
or groomsman, that's that collective group that stands up next
to the couple when they get married.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Now, what about officiants. We see a lot of weddings
today where it's not a religious person who's necessary officiating
over a wedding. It's a best friend, it's a family member.
Are officiants now considered part of that wedding party? I
mean they're standing up there next to them, same thing
as you, same thing as the parents. They're a supporting role,
(13:14):
they're a part of it. They're not actually the thing
that we call the wedding party, the bridal party. That's
just that group.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But it's funny, honestly, you could divide it any way
you want, Like some people have their mom as their
matron of honor, you know what I mean, And so
you get crossover anywhere you go. But the officiant, I
would say, isn't in that wedding party group. And I
also want to stress that if if you aren't chosen
for this or something like, it doesn't mean that you
(13:41):
are so much less than or something like that. Like
I think there are a lot of friends that get
worried that if they aren't chosen for that attendant role,
that doing something like a reading or taking care of
a guestbook isn't isn't as appreciated. And every role that
you could play in a wedding like is going to
be appreciated by the couple.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
You're right. It's like if someone's asking you to be
even to be an usher or a bouncer, like I
really matter, that's a beautiful thing to ask. They just
want to include you in the day. You know, that's
really wonderful.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And frankly, we trust you. That's another really big thing.
You can't trust everyone with the microphone you're reading, It's true.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, So let's talk about like, once we're invited to
be a part of a wedding party, what is expected
of you as a member of this wedding party and
what events are you expected to plan, throw, or pay for.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So based on the different roles in terms of like
a maid of honor and a best man, and this
could be an honor attendant too, So doesn't matter the
gender of the person. But it really is up to
you how you structure that maid or matron of honor role,
whether they're really a leader or whether it's just kind
of the name you assign that particular attendant, because there's
(14:58):
usually one person who ha that name, but really everybody's helping,
or your sister is helping because your maid of honor,
you know, lives five thousand miles away and there's no
way for her to help until she actually gets there
for the ceremony. You know, there's a lot of different
ways that the actual roles and obligations between a maid
(15:19):
of honor versus a bridesmaid would be. First of all,
you're not obligated to actually host any parties for the couple.
That's a big misconceptionally. Yeah, you're also not obligated to
attend all of the parties for the couple. And so
what you can get to and what you're capable of
offering to do.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
This is blowing my mind, truly, Like you just dropped
the mic.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I have always felt obligated, Dame.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I know it's like you. I didn't have to do that.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's really true. It's great if
you can, and I think for the most part, most
friend groups who are in this supportive position want to
try to. But the reality is we hang on to
(16:04):
tighter relationships at greater distances I think than we did,
you know, one hundred years ago, even fifty years ago.
And I think that's resulted in a lot of people
feeling like, yes, I want to play that role, and
I will be there the wedding week, but I actually,
like literally cannot take the time off from work to
do it. I can't afford the plane tickets to go
(16:25):
to five parties prior to your wedding, plus your wedding,
I can't afford the gifts for the parties of those
parties that require gifts, of which the shower is the
only one that actually requires a gift.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Just as important to note important to note that that
bachelor bachelorette party does not need to get a gift.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Optional, engagement party optional, and all the parties are optional too.
There are plenty of couples who do not have any
pre wedding parties, But in terms of obligations, this group
is not obligated to actually host or attend these things
besides the wedding, besides going to the web itself and
the rehearsal dinner.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, And I think it's important to say, like for
the people who feel like, oh, why why is it
so important that I that, Like, why am I required
to go to the rehearsal dinner? Well, you know, a wedding,
much like a theatrical production, is a staged you know,
presentation of a ceremony, and so you need to know
where you're going to stand, who you're going to walk
in with, when you're going to walk in, and so
you really do need to show up to the rehearsal
(17:23):
so you know the order of events in the wedding,
Like are you speaking if you're a best man or
a best person? Like are you handling the rings when
you get the rings? Where are you holding onto the rings?
Like all these little logistical pieces of the pageantry of
the day, like are so so important for you to know,
And that's why you need to go to the rehearsal dinner.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You need to be there, you need to be showing
up for it, and you're right, we all are not
event planners. Most people realize that even though they've seen
weddings a million times on television, one live in action
where you play a part is different that having the
familiarity of going through it. Practicing it once or twice
is actually really really helpful. You're there to play that
(17:59):
support role of helping the bride or groom or the
person getting married with any small task the day of,
So while you are also getting you ready, you also
have a job of calming the nerves of, and being
supportive of, and doing little run around tasks for the
(18:19):
actual person you are supporting. So for specific attendant responsibilities,
the maid or matron of honor helps the bride select
the bridesmaid's attire. Is available to be the bride's right hand,
helping with communication with other attendants and with wedding professionals
if requested, helps address invitations and place cards, coordinates a
(18:41):
shower or bachelorette party if the bride'smaids decide to host one.
Organizes the bride'smaid's gift to the bride if one is given,
and optionally the bride'smaid's luncheon or bachelorette party if there
is one, holds the groom's wedding ring and the bride's
bouquet during the ceremony, witnesses the signing of the marriage certificate,
(19:03):
helps the bride during the reception, gather the guests for
the cake cutting dancing. The bouquet toss so kind of
like an assistant like ridal coordinator, and helps the bride
change into her going away clothes. Takes care of the
bride's wedding dress and accessories. After the reception. The bride'smaids
attend the rehearsal, the rehearsal dinner, and the bride'smaid's luncheon
(19:25):
if there is one. They attend other pre wedding parties
when possible, assists the bride at the reception as requested,
participates in activities such as the receiving line and the
bouquet toss. Gives an individual gift to the couple, or
contributes to a group gift from the bridesmaids or the
attendants all right. The best man organizes the bachelor party
(19:47):
for the groom, if there is one, coordinates the groomsman's
gift to the groom if one is given, or gives
an individual gift to the couple. Makes sure that the
groom's wedding related payments are prepared, so that's like anything
he has to give in terms of tips or things
like that, and delivers them too the officians, the musicians,
and the singers after the ceremony, since that's what the
(20:09):
groom's in charge of.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Ah. I have never known that, but that could be
super helpful.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Right right, You know, someone's dad usually probably does that.
Sees the groomsmen and ushers are properly groomed and attired
and arrive on time, so as like the lead groomsman
basically instructs the ushers in the correct seating of the guests.
If there is no head usher keeps the bride's wedding
ring and hands it to the groom during the ceremony,
(20:36):
witnesses the signing of the marriage certificate. Drives the bride
and groom to the reception. If there's no hired driver,
has a car ready for the couple to leave after
the reception, and may drive them to their next destination
like airport, hotel, whatever offers the first toast to the
bride and groom at the reception, gathers and takes care
(20:56):
of the groom's wedding clothes, returns rental items. On the
next business day, the groomsmen and ushers attend the rehearsal
rehearsal dinner and bachelor party if there is one. Give
an additional gift to the couple, or contribute to a
group gift from the groomsmen and ushers, or attendance if
there is one. Know the seating order and review special
seating arrangements prior to the ceremony, Greet the guests and
(21:20):
escort them to their seats. That's the usher part of
the job. Hand each guest a program if programs are provided.
Tidy up after the ceremony, removing pew ribbons, closing windows,
and retrieving any programs or articles left behind. Help guests
who need directions to the reception site. Coordinate the return
(21:41):
of rental clothing with the best man. You are obligated
to get your clothing if it's not being provided for
you for this event. It's dictated by the couple, but
you have to then actually go get what they have suggested.
The more you can give direction I think the better
(22:02):
if you're gonna go hyper specific. I think it's nice
to pay for it personally for all the attendants. I
understand that is not a possibility for everyone. But the
more directive you get about it, I think the more
you have to recognize people might have to back out
and say I can't afford this. I need to be
honest and realistic about that. This is out of my budget.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And speaking of budget and paying for stuff, you know,
what are all of the things that we should be
thinking about budgeting for if we are in the wedding
party itself exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So we just talked about the clothing unless offered, you're
on the hook for your clothing, your hair, your makeup,
your nails, any version of getting you presentable for this event.
It's on you. In terms of travel, you are usually
responsible for getting yourself to the wedding location, and the
couple traditionally pays for your accommodations, so whether that's at
(22:59):
the hotel, at the resort.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I've got some friends to call up, I know, Matt,
they never.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Do, they never have have they I know? But I
think that it's really really great when you can take
care of those accommodations. I understand not everybody can, but
it really is one of those traditions that is a
part of the balance of the budget of the bridal party.
It doesn't have to be a hotel. I've been a
(23:25):
part of a number of bridal parties and we've certainly
recommended it for years where reaching out to local friends
and family who can house a member or two of
the bridal party, or if someone's going to be away
and their house is available for four or five people
to go stay at that kind of a thing can
also be an option. And I will also just say
(23:46):
extra bonus points when you can arrange some of that
for close friends and family who are traveling for a wedding.
People get really impressed by that, like telling someone, Hey,
if you want it, here at a guest room for
you at my friend's house like they would love to
host you. It ends up really bringing people together and
(24:07):
saving people a lot of money. But anyway, that's a
whole other episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I love that though, but you're talking we're talking about
budgets here. So with all of that in mind, then
am I still expected as a wedding party member to
get them a wedding present off the registry or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yep, oh, I know it's just a racket. It is,
But I want to remind people of two things when
it comes to the gift. One, any couple doesn't have to,
but any couple who wishes to could certainly tell their
attendance and the people who have helped throw parties and
things like that for them. Listen, your presence is really
(24:43):
your present to us. I know that a wedding invitation
creates the obligation of a gift, and I really want
to just say no, Like, don't worry about that. You
have done so much for us. We really view that
as a gift in and of itself, and that I
think can be a really nice way to alleviate some
of that burden. And frankly, some of your friends are
(25:05):
going to be the kind of people who choose to
get you a gift anyway, even if you did alleviate
that burden. Often the group will go in on a
group gift together, or like you said, you could pick
something off the registry. I would wait a little bit
to find out if anyone is suggesting a group gift
before just grabbing something off the registry. But there's nothing
that prevents you from doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, So from the perspective of the couple getting married,
what gifts are they expected to bestow upon their wedding
party and when at which events?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So typically there's like a bridesmaid's luncheon, and that would
be a time for a bride to give gifts and
the groomsman it's more of that time right before the
wedding where they're getting ready together. They don't have a
definitive party other than the bachelor party, and it's often
something that they might be able to wear. So whether
(25:58):
it's a nice tie or a belt or something like that.
For the bridesmaids, it's often again something they might all wear,
Like my sister got us all a little necklace with
a little pendant on it that would go nicely with
our dresses, and a shawl or you know. I had
another friend who did little small clutch purses and she
filled them with some little trinkity things. So it's really
(26:22):
up to you. But typically the luncheon, either the week
of or the day before the wedding, is a time
where the bride throws a luncheon for her bridesmaids to
thank them for all they've done.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, my best friend got us all tie clips that
had our role on it, which was like we all,
I know, I love a tie clip, so classy and
it was just like really really special, like it had
the date on it and I think our names on it.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Gentlemen, take note, that is a very great gift.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Coming up on grown up stuff, How do adult talk
to me about?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Speeches?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
So wedding dependent. Some people do not deserve microphones, So
fusible person, have a no mic list? Give it to
your DJ, you'r mc whoever it is. No, Oh, no
mic list is.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So a thing. We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And we're back with more growd up stuff. How to adults.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So, as a wedding party member, I'm curious to hear
what your best advice would be for managing I don't
want to say difficult, you know, bride or groom, but
like you know, maybe they're overwhelmed by the day right
and they need a little bit of extra help. What's
your best advice for managing those people on that day?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I think moving to those good What is it like
armchair therapist, like you know, like kitchen therapist moments? What
do you need What can I do for you right now?
Like reassurance, There are a lot of things that you
can't do anything about if it is pouring rain and
you have an outdoor wedding. I mean, I'm hoping you've
(28:02):
set a contingency plan, but honestly, the only thing you
can do in that moment is to validate someone's disappointment
and let them know that this is not ideal, but
it doesn't have to ruin the day.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I also feel like there's plenty of logistical stuff, Like
I remember when my brother was getting married, my dad's
the clasp on his pants broke and his pants were
literally falling down around his ankles, and we figure out
how to fix the clasp on his pants. So, like
I mean, stuff like that is going to come up
on the day of the wedding, and so it is.
(28:34):
Sometimes you're just there to like fill in the gaps.
You know you are.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You might be there to run to the nearest Walgreens
to grab a sewing kicks, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What I mean? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
And in many ways, as you know, attendant, that is
your job. You were that person so that the bride
or the groom or the father, the bride doesn't have
to be the person to go do it, and so
I think preparing yourself to play a support role, preparing
yourself to be a helper, I think is a really
good mental space to get yourself into whomever and the
(29:11):
couple you are supporting. The key is to be a
good listener, don't diminish their feelings, find the bright side
of their concerns, and try to put their mind at
ease as best you can without invalidating their emotions. Remind
them of the big picture and what the day is
really about. Speeches at the reception can be a great
way to remind your happy couple what's most important. But
(29:33):
it may surprise you who is actually expected to give
a speech? I want to get to the speeches at
the wedding.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So important, arguably the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah yeah, so I know normally the best person or
the person of honor is expected to give a speech.
But are other people in the wedding party expected to
give speeches to Can they? Who else?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Talk to me about speeches?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
So wedding dependent Because as we said earlier, some people
do not deserve microphones. So for out of all person
have a no mic list, give it to your DJ,
you'r mc whoever it is. No, oh, no, mic list
is so a thing. Technically only the best man is
like obligated to give a speech, which I find shocking
(30:19):
every time I say it, and every time I say it,
I want to run back to my book and look
through it because I feel like, what are you talking about?
Of course, a father of the bride gives a speech,
and of course a maid of honor gives a speech,
and really it's up to you who you have due
speeches and toasts, and if your best man isn't someone
who you can trust, then don't have your best man
(30:41):
do it. It's okay, like it is okay to pass
that to the person that you feel the most confident
about asking that honor of. But typically the best man
would give the speech and kick it off and anyone
who wants to go after that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Ken, I'm curious to know from your end, like, what
are your recommendations for nailing the speech.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I think that to nail the speech, you really want
it to be about the couple and their love and
their commitment on this day. I think people get into
trouble when they start making it about celebrating one person
in the couple, or just their relationship to the one
person in the couple that they're closer to. And I
(31:23):
also think that some people think that the job of
the best man is to embarrass or to cause the
bride to blush and not true, Like your goal with
this speech is to say something supportive and thoughtful, and
I think kind and I don't think that the goal
should be to embarrass or to paint a picture of
(31:46):
what life was like before you met this person. And
you know, there's a lot especially with people who maybe
sewed a lot of wild oats, like you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
This is not the place for that joke.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's what the bachelor party is for or the bachelorette party.
But I would say from an etiquette perspective, it is
not the right tone to strike. You really want to
go sentimental, supportive, focus on the couple.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And I've done a couple of speeches, and so the
first one I did, it was a little long, was
the it was about ten minutes long, and I've learned
that that's too long. So I think that like the
sweet spots I've been told is like between like three
to five minutes. Three to seven minutes maybe, but like
not much longer than seven minutes. And generally people say
like keep it to five. Sod you are there any
(32:33):
hard and fast rules there with the speeches in the timelinth.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think that all the ranges you just listed are smart.
Ten feels way too long. Seven starts to push it.
Five is you've really been up there talking for a while,
and you as a as a podcast and radio hosts
know that like thirty seconds, you can convey so much
information in thirty seconds when I really get down to it,
(32:56):
three minutes is probably a wonderful time. Yeah, Like I
bet that that gives you enough time to really get
into something and get back out of it without people
even feeling like, oh boy, should I look at my watch?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Now, what if you are asked to be a person
of honor or a best person, so like the top tier, Yeah,
and perhaps you know, Okay, this person's going to expect
me to plan the party, is going to expect me
to do X, Y and Z and be at you know,
all these different places, and I just can't give that
level of commitment? Can you decline that? But say like, hey,
(33:30):
I'll be just a regular like bride's person or groom's person.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think it's a little harder to go from that
of honor role or that best man role into the
space of attendant, a little easier to drop all the
way back to like doing a reading or something like
they're giving a toast or something like that. But I
think you could say, boy, I know that you're really
looking for a lot out of your maid of honor,
(33:56):
and I am looking at the calendar and looking at
this year and realizing that I would not be able
to do the job justice. So if you would still
like me as a bridesmaid, I would love to be
a bridesmaid. If you'd still like me as a groomsmanner
and honor attendant, I would love to be that, but
I can't play the role at that level, is probably
what I would say. And then it's really up to
them where they place you after that.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, fair, Lizzie. Thank you so much for being with us.
It's always a pleasure to have you and listen. I
know we've got more wedding topics that we got to
grow up about, so I'm sure we'll have you back.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Awesome, Thanks so much, shame you.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I have such a good time talking with.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You too, Lizzie. The pleasure is truly ours and we
love talking etiquette with you, especially the wedding variety. Here's
what I'm taking with me from this conversation. I'm being
a member of a wedding party. When it comes to
choosing a wedding party, remember it's your wedding and you
(34:53):
are not obligated to pick anyone other than the people
you want up there next to you, no matter the age, gender,
or the number people in the party. Even if you
are not asked to be in the wedding party but
have been asked to help in a different way, you
are still a trusted and close friend of the couple
and they know they can rely on you. You are
not obligated to pay for or plan any of the parties.
(35:17):
In fact, all of the pre wedding parties are optional
to have or even attend. The only things you have
to go to as an attendant are the rehearsal, rehearsal dinner,
and the wedding itself. Sometimes the best thing you can
do to help your couple is asking them, Hey, what
do you need right now and remind them to focus
on the significance of the day they get to marry
(35:39):
someone they love and spend the rest of their life
with this person. Validation is also super important. Don't try
to gaslight anyone about what's happening. If things start to
go awride. Your job is to soothe and calm, not
to tell them they're ridiculous for being upset about certain things.
Stuff is going to happen on the day of. It
is your job as an attendant to try to help
(36:01):
fix any little mishaps that occur and be a problem
solver where needed. Technically, according to the Emily Post Rules
of Etiquette, only the best man is supposed to give
a speech to the reception, but many weddings use this
role to kick off multiple speeches. Ultimately, it's up to
the couple to decide who is making speeches, but it
never hurts to give the band leader or DJ a
(36:23):
no mic list for the night to keep the mics
in the right hands. If you've been asked to give
a speech at either the rehearsal or the reception, three
minutes is the sweet spot. Any longer is excessive. I've
made a decision about wedding parties for myself, and what
I think is that if that day ever comes for
(36:45):
me fingers crossed. I'm just gonna have one person standing
next to me and one person standing next to the
person I marry. You know, keep it simple, no regirts, Matt.
Any big surprises for you about wedding parties.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
And just a side now. We will put Molly's hinge
profile in the link in the description, so go ahead
and click.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
On that.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
First. Seeing a few surprises for me around speeches, I
didn't know that traditionally only the best man or the
best person was expected to give a speech and no
one else, right, But it's really beautiful to see the
liberties people are taking with it. You know, the parents
are speaking. I've seen weddings where the rehearsal dinner people
are giving speeches. I went to a wedding where like
literally everyone in the room stood up and said something
(37:25):
about the happy couples. So I think the important thing
to take away is that it's your wedding day and
that you should do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Here here, Matt. But moving on, what can our friends
expect to learn On the next episode of Grown Up
Stuff How to Adult?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
In two weeks, we'll be digging into tipping culture. Somewhere
between the advent of tipping screens and the rampant inflation
we're all experiencing has left us a little confused what
to do when we're at the tip and counter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Honestly, I feel like a lot more people are asking
for tips that weren't asking for them before, and that
we didn't ever tip before. So I have a lot
of confusion on who I'm supposed to tip and exactly
how much I'm supposed to tip. I do know that
I am a solid twenty percenter at a dine in restaurant, though.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But is that enough too much? And where else should
we be tipping. We're going to sort through all the
confusion and hopefully get a straight answer on the next
episode of grown Up Stuff, How do adult?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And remember you might not be graded in life, but
it never hoots. It never hurts to do your homework.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It never hoiites to do your.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Home never want to do your homewook.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
This is a production from Ruby's Studio from My Heart Media.
Our executive producers are Molly.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Soshia and Matt Stillo. This episode was engineered by Matt Stillo.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And written in a clothus by Molly Sosha.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen, and we
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Want to thank our teammates at Ruby Studio, including Ethan Fixel,
Rachel Swan Krasnov, Amber Smith, Deborah Garrett, and Andy Kelly
It's wedding season once again. This time last year we
discussed what's expected of us as wedding guests, But how
do those expectations change when we graduate from just a
guest to a member of the wedding party. The role
of attendant in a wedding has evolved a lot over
the years. Jendall, author of the book Save the Date
(00:26):
The Occasional Mortifications of a Serial Wedding Guest, has written
about the origins and many previous iterations of the wedding
party for mental floss, and she says in ancient Rome,
it was required to have a wedding party of at
least ten people, five on each side, and to dress
them identically to the bride and groom, in order to
confuse malevolent spirits, enemies, or disapproving gods who wished to
(00:51):
cause the couple harm and on the darker side of things.
Dole also writes that the role of the best man
likely evolved from sixteenth century to Manic Gothic practices where
the bride was often kidnapped from her family in a
neighboring community, so the best man was often the best
swordsman for the job of stealing the bride and fending
(01:11):
off her protective family and friends. Other histories of bridesmaids
point to the biblical wedding of Leah and Rachel to
Jacob as the origins of bridesmaids, as each brought their
own quote unquote made with them. Today, the role of
wedding attendant is more symbolic. Being a part of a
wedding party is a way for the couple getting married
(01:32):
to publicly announce their close connections with the people standing
beside them. When a bride or groom asks you to
be in their wedding, they're telling you your friendship has
staying power and longevity. These important friendships are also not
gender exclusive, which is why attendants are no longer gender specific.
It's become commonplace to have co ed teams standing on
(01:53):
both sides of the couple. With all of the newer
wedding party practices and rituals, what are the modern day
responsibilities of the attendance and more importantly, what should we
expect to budget for if we're going to take the
public role of top friend. Start taking notes because this
is stuff. Welcome friends, one and all to grown up
(02:19):
stuff How to Adult. The podcast where we figure out
whether or not we're expected to make a speech at
our cousin's wedding, and many other adult life lessons. As always,
I am joined by everyone's best man, a true man
of honor. Matthew stillow, you were actually the best man
in your brother's nuptials. Is that the first time you've
(02:39):
been a part of a wedding party? And what was
your understanding of that role going into it?
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Well, thankfully, I'd had the chance to do it once
before with one of my closest friends, so I had
a sort of like blueprint for how it would go.
But it was a little bit more intense for my
brother because we're twins. He was marrying his high school sweetheart,
who was also one of my closest friends. Yeah, so
I wanted to be sure to honor that both. But
you know, you see movies like The Hangover Part one,
two and three years Friend's wedding, my best friend's wedding,
(03:06):
and you have like this, you know, inflated idea of
what is expected if you got throw the bachelor party
and you gotta go to Vegas, and it's got to
be crazy. So I was really just thinking about the
speech and the party. But it turns out there are
a lot of things to consider before asking whoever you
want to ask and accepting if you are asked. But
I'm curious to hear about you. You know, we talked
(03:26):
about you may have been in some wedding parties, you
may not have vised, like, what is the story there.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I've only officially been in two wedding parties where I've
been a bridesmaid, one of which the intent was to
make me the maid of honor. But the problem was
is that I was underage, and because I think there
was like this expectation that like the maid of honor
would throw the bachelorette. So it's like, a, I wouldn't
really be able to go to the bachelorette. I was
also still in school, so I was just like broke
(03:52):
as hell, so I like wouldn't be able to like
plan anything. But if the wedding party is a major
supporting role, then I guess I was minor supporting role.
And other weddings, but those are also weddings where I
was kind of a little I gotta be honest, I
was a little heartbroken and very disappointed I wasn't asked
to be in the actual wedding.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Party more of real life adult dramas. Yeah, he's not
going to be involved in the wedding party.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, but I think that there's always just so much
confusion about like, what yeah, actually expected of you.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, today we will hopefully get a lot of clarity
about what it means to be in a wedding party,
because our resident Queen of Etiquette, Lizzie Post, returns to
set the record straight on what you need to show
up to and pay for as a member of a
groom or bridle party.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yes, I love Lizzie and I am so excited to
have her back on the podcast. She is an author
and an etiquette expert who has written about everything from
brushing your teeth in the office to hosting the perfect
cannabis dinner party Delightful.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Lizzie is the great great granddaughter of Emily Post, the
woman who literally wrote the book on etiquette, and Lizzie
wrote the updated version of her great great grandmother's work
in Emily Posts Etiquette, the Centennial Edition. Plus. She is
the co president of the Emily Post Institute and the
co host of the podcast Awesome Etiquette.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Lizzie also wrote Emily Post's Wedding Etiquette sixth edition and
joined us last season to help us explain proper etiquette
as a wedding guest and shared some valuable gems with us,
like don't wear all white unless it's requested by the couple.
And if your invitation envelope doesn't say and guests, you
do not get a plus one. Lizzie, thank you so
(05:32):
much once again for joining us on grown up stuff.
How do adults? This time we're talking about wedding parties,
and we want to kick it off by asking you
what is the modern day purpose of a wedding party?
Like why why?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It's a great question, and I have to say, when
I fantasize about my own wedding, I dream of no
wedding party.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Interesting, controversial opinion, same same.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
One of my dear friends, Emily, was one of my
first friends to get married. I was blown away when
I attended her wedding and there was no bridal party.
I'd never seen that before, and I thought it looked amazing.
I thought it made it so special. But that was
my opinion. There are other folks when they get married
(06:18):
where they want their nearest and dearest standing right by
their side for that sentiment of support. It's really your
wedding and it's up to you whether you choose to
participate in this tradition and how you participate in it.
And I wanted to start out saying that because one
of the things couples really have to consider when it
(06:41):
comes to the bridal party nowadays is the potential burden
that it can place on them. This is not an
inexpensive thing. This is not something that only takes a
single weekend to accomplish. The support of and the participation in.
It's a lot. And I think as a couple, getting
(07:04):
really really crystal clear on if you choose to have
attendance what you are expecting of them in terms of
participation is gonna make it so easy to ask them
in a way that gives them the whole lay of
the land and they can say yes or no as
to whether they can participate. And like that is my biggest,
(07:26):
biggest piece of advice to anyone around a wedding is
really think about what you're asking someone to do and
participate in, not the honor of it. The honor is
so there, and you want that sentiment to be there.
Do you have to be realistic about just how big
this ask is and just so you know, friends, you
get to say, I totally understand that's your wish, but no,
(07:48):
you know what I mean, like I can't participate.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
It well, also important as the person asking to consider
where your friend is at in their life for real.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yeah, I could literally talk about that for the next hour.
We're like and horror stories of where it's gone wrong
and people trying to be polite but instead not expressing
what they really want and then holding it against people later.
I mean, it's it is a mess when it comes
to bridal parties sometimes, but it's this beautiful, supportive, fun
thing that I think a lot of people bond over
(08:19):
and I want that to be like the shining element
that comes through if you want to have a bridal party.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
In twenty eighteen, the average number of attendants on either
side was five, and that was up from the average
of four in two thousand and seven, and that's according
to the NOT Worldwide. Many wedding planners expect to see
that number rise. However, in other Western countries like Italy
or Germany, the couple getting married are expected to pay
(08:51):
for the attire for the bridal party, so the sizes
are often limited to one procid Over there, you talked
a bit about who you need to think about when
you're actually putting together that wedding party. Are there people
who you really should be including in that wedding party?
Do you feel like there's an obligation to include, like,
for example, future partner siblings.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
First of all, it's your wedding, and if you have
a really horrendous relationship with that person, etiquette is not
going to twist your arm and say that you must
or you can't walk down that aisle missy. That's just
not how it operates. If you have a bad relationship
with someone, you do not have to extend this honor
(09:35):
to them. We think that, especially when it comes to
siblings of your partner, that extending those olive branches and saying,
you know, would you like to be one of my
attendants is really thoughtful. But nowadays a lot of folks
will just ask the people they care the most about
to stand with them. So the gender doesn't matter, that
(09:57):
age doesn't matter. I think what you I want to
really look for people who are capable of doing it.
Sometimes folks worry, oh, we can't ask Beth, she's pregnant.
You can definitely ask Beth like it is fine for
Beth to be pregnant up there.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
So you said there's no expectation for age, Like there's
no such thing as a minimum age required for like
bride's person or groom's person. Is there's no like age
limit for like a flower person or a ring bearer?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Can I be a thirty four year old flower boy?
That's what I want to know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yes, you cannot. You just have to find the right
couple who wants you to play that role.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I got a role for you.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
So it's I will say, typically we choose our peers.
Typically you're choosing folks that are kind of like your
best friends and your your siblings. But you know, all
kinds of different families and relationships form in life. And
if your mother is your best friend, who the heck
is Emily Post to say? You can't have your mother
(11:00):
stand next to you? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:02):
And I see those couples who do they get married
and their children that they've had prior to this marriage
are the attendants for that wedding, and it's a beautiful,
really all inclusive family event. Some of those kids are
three You know, it's like, I really don't think that
there is an age limit. I think it's more the
connection to the person and the purpose in asking them
(11:25):
that really matters. That's the honor of the tradition.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Well, let's stick to breaking down a little bit more so.
Obviously we've got the best man, we've got the maid
of honor. But who else is technically a part of
the official wedding party? Because there is a person who
may not be on this podcast with us right now,
who feels that because she was a bouncer at a
wedding or two, that she was a part of the
wedding party.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think I was Could this person be wrong? You
were a bouncer, Yeah, I have to hand out programs
and keep people out of the venue while they were
taking photos of just the bride and the group.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Oh so I would say you were a part of
the crew. I really do think that anyone who is
someone who has to be given instructions on how to
help other guests, I think that's someone who's a part
of the crew.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
You're a part of all of the supporting roles. Okay, okay,
the parents of the couple are not in the wedding party.
They're not a part of Valley. No, at least I
don't think of them as that. I think of them
as the family. It's like a different subset in my
own head. There are pictures with the parents and the
wedding party. But when we at least at Emily Post,
(12:38):
when we talk about that wedding party, we're talking about
the attendants and when we say things like bridal attendance
or groomsman, that's that collective group that stands up next
to the couple when they get married.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Now, what about officiants. We see a lot of weddings
today where it's not a religious person who's necessary officiating
over a wedding. It's a best friend, it's a family member.
Are officiants now considered part of that wedding party? I
mean they're standing up there next to them, same thing
as you, same thing as the parents. They're a supporting role,
(13:14):
they're a part of it. They're not actually the thing
that we call the wedding party, the bridal party. That's
just that group.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But it's funny, honestly, you could divide it any way
you want, Like some people have their mom as their
matron of honor, you know what I mean, And so
you get crossover anywhere you go. But the officiant, I
would say, isn't in that wedding party group. And I
also want to stress that if if you aren't chosen
for this or something like, it doesn't mean that you
(13:41):
are so much less than or something like that. Like
I think there are a lot of friends that get
worried that if they aren't chosen for that attendant role,
that doing something like a reading or taking care of
a guestbook isn't isn't as appreciated. And every role that
you could play in a wedding like is going to
be appreciated by the couple.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
You're right. It's like if someone's asking you to be
even to be an usher or a bouncer, like I
really matter, that's a beautiful thing to ask. They just
want to include you in the day. You know, that's
really wonderful.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And frankly, we trust you. That's another really big thing.
You can't trust everyone with the microphone you're reading, It's true.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Okay, So let's talk about like, once we're invited to
be a part of a wedding party, what is expected
of you as a member of this wedding party and
what events are you expected to plan, throw, or pay for.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So based on the different roles in terms of like
a maid of honor and a best man, and this
could be an honor attendant too, So doesn't matter the
gender of the person. But it really is up to
you how you structure that maid or matron of honor role,
whether they're really a leader or whether it's just kind
of the name you assign that particular attendant, because there's
(14:58):
usually one person who ha that name, but really everybody's helping,
or your sister is helping because your maid of honor,
you know, lives five thousand miles away and there's no
way for her to help until she actually gets there
for the ceremony. You know, there's a lot of different
ways that the actual roles and obligations between a maid
(15:19):
of honor versus a bridesmaid would be. First of all,
you're not obligated to actually host any parties for the couple.
That's a big misconceptionally. Yeah, you're also not obligated to
attend all of the parties for the couple. And so
what you can get to and what you're capable of
offering to do.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
This is blowing my mind, truly, Like you just dropped
the mic.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I have always felt obligated, Dame.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I know it's like you. I didn't have to do that.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's really true. It's great if
you can, and I think for the most part, most
friend groups who are in this supportive position want to
try to. But the reality is we hang on to
(16:04):
tighter relationships at greater distances I think than we did,
you know, one hundred years ago, even fifty years ago.
And I think that's resulted in a lot of people
feeling like, yes, I want to play that role, and
I will be there the wedding week, but I actually,
like literally cannot take the time off from work to
do it. I can't afford the plane tickets to go
(16:25):
to five parties prior to your wedding, plus your wedding,
I can't afford the gifts for the parties of those
parties that require gifts, of which the shower is the
only one that actually requires a gift.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Just as important to note important to note that that
bachelor bachelorette party does not need to get a gift.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Optional, engagement party optional, and all the parties are optional too.
There are plenty of couples who do not have any
pre wedding parties, But in terms of obligations, this group
is not obligated to actually host or attend these things
besides the wedding, besides going to the web itself and
the rehearsal dinner.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, And I think it's important to say, like for
the people who feel like, oh, why why is it
so important that I that, Like, why am I required
to go to the rehearsal dinner? Well, you know, a wedding,
much like a theatrical production, is a staged you know,
presentation of a ceremony, and so you need to know
where you're going to stand, who you're going to walk
in with, when you're going to walk in, and so
you really do need to show up to the rehearsal
(17:23):
so you know the order of events in the wedding,
Like are you speaking if you're a best man or
a best person? Like are you handling the rings when
you get the rings? Where are you holding onto the rings?
Like all these little logistical pieces of the pageantry of
the day, like are so so important for you to know,
And that's why you need to go to the rehearsal dinner.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You need to be there, you need to be showing
up for it, and you're right, we all are not
event planners. Most people realize that even though they've seen
weddings a million times on television, one live in action
where you play a part is different that having the
familiarity of going through it. Practicing it once or twice
is actually really really helpful. You're there to play that
(17:59):
support role of helping the bride or groom or the
person getting married with any small task the day of,
So while you are also getting you ready, you also
have a job of calming the nerves of, and being
supportive of, and doing little run around tasks for the
(18:19):
actual person you are supporting. So for specific attendant responsibilities,
the maid or matron of honor helps the bride select
the bridesmaid's attire. Is available to be the bride's right hand,
helping with communication with other attendants and with wedding professionals
if requested, helps address invitations and place cards, coordinates a
(18:41):
shower or bachelorette party if the bride'smaids decide to host one.
Organizes the bride'smaid's gift to the bride if one is given,
and optionally the bride'smaid's luncheon or bachelorette party if there
is one, holds the groom's wedding ring and the bride's
bouquet during the ceremony, witnesses the signing of the marriage certificate,
(19:03):
helps the bride during the reception, gather the guests for
the cake cutting dancing. The bouquet toss so kind of
like an assistant like ridal coordinator, and helps the bride
change into her going away clothes. Takes care of the
bride's wedding dress and accessories. After the reception. The bride'smaids
attend the rehearsal, the rehearsal dinner, and the bride'smaid's luncheon
(19:25):
if there is one. They attend other pre wedding parties
when possible, assists the bride at the reception as requested,
participates in activities such as the receiving line and the
bouquet toss. Gives an individual gift to the couple, or
contributes to a group gift from the bridesmaids or the
attendants all right. The best man organizes the bachelor party
(19:47):
for the groom, if there is one, coordinates the groomsman's
gift to the groom if one is given, or gives
an individual gift to the couple. Makes sure that the
groom's wedding related payments are prepared, so that's like anything
he has to give in terms of tips or things
like that, and delivers them too the officians, the musicians,
and the singers after the ceremony, since that's what the
(20:09):
groom's in charge of.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Ah. I have never known that, but that could be
super helpful.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Right right, You know, someone's dad usually probably does that.
Sees the groomsmen and ushers are properly groomed and attired
and arrive on time, so as like the lead groomsman
basically instructs the ushers in the correct seating of the guests.
If there is no head usher keeps the bride's wedding
ring and hands it to the groom during the ceremony,
(20:36):
witnesses the signing of the marriage certificate. Drives the bride
and groom to the reception. If there's no hired driver,
has a car ready for the couple to leave after
the reception, and may drive them to their next destination
like airport, hotel, whatever offers the first toast to the
bride and groom at the reception, gathers and takes care
(20:56):
of the groom's wedding clothes, returns rental items. On the
next business day, the groomsmen and ushers attend the rehearsal
rehearsal dinner and bachelor party if there is one. Give
an additional gift to the couple, or contribute to a
group gift from the groomsmen and ushers, or attendance if
there is one. Know the seating order and review special
seating arrangements prior to the ceremony, Greet the guests and
(21:20):
escort them to their seats. That's the usher part of
the job. Hand each guest a program if programs are provided.
Tidy up after the ceremony, removing pew ribbons, closing windows,
and retrieving any programs or articles left behind. Help guests
who need directions to the reception site. Coordinate the return
(21:41):
of rental clothing with the best man. You are obligated
to get your clothing if it's not being provided for
you for this event. It's dictated by the couple, but
you have to then actually go get what they have suggested.
The more you can give direction I think the better
(22:02):
if you're gonna go hyper specific. I think it's nice
to pay for it personally for all the attendants. I
understand that is not a possibility for everyone. But the
more directive you get about it, I think the more
you have to recognize people might have to back out
and say I can't afford this. I need to be
honest and realistic about that. This is out of my budget.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
And speaking of budget and paying for stuff, you know,
what are all of the things that we should be
thinking about budgeting for if we are in the wedding
party itself exactly?
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So we just talked about the clothing unless offered, you're
on the hook for your clothing, your hair, your makeup,
your nails, any version of getting you presentable for this event.
It's on you. In terms of travel, you are usually
responsible for getting yourself to the wedding location, and the
couple traditionally pays for your accommodations, so whether that's at
(22:59):
the hotel, at the resort.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I've got some friends to call up, I know, Matt,
they never.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Do, they never have have they I know? But I
think that it's really really great when you can take
care of those accommodations. I understand not everybody can, but
it really is one of those traditions that is a
part of the balance of the budget of the bridal party.
It doesn't have to be a hotel. I've been a
(23:25):
part of a number of bridal parties and we've certainly
recommended it for years where reaching out to local friends
and family who can house a member or two of
the bridal party, or if someone's going to be away
and their house is available for four or five people
to go stay at that kind of a thing can
also be an option. And I will also just say
(23:46):
extra bonus points when you can arrange some of that
for close friends and family who are traveling for a wedding.
People get really impressed by that, like telling someone, Hey,
if you want it, here at a guest room for
you at my friend's house like they would love to
host you. It ends up really bringing people together and
(24:07):
saving people a lot of money. But anyway, that's a
whole other episode. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I love that though, but you're talking we're talking about
budgets here. So with all of that in mind, then
am I still expected as a wedding party member to
get them a wedding present off the registry or whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yep, oh, I know it's just a racket. It is,
But I want to remind people of two things when
it comes to the gift. One, any couple doesn't have to,
but any couple who wishes to could certainly tell their
attendance and the people who have helped throw parties and
things like that for them. Listen, your presence is really
(24:43):
your present to us. I know that a wedding invitation
creates the obligation of a gift, and I really want
to just say no, Like, don't worry about that. You
have done so much for us. We really view that
as a gift in and of itself, and that I
think can be a really nice way to alleviate some
of that burden. And frankly, some of your friends are
(25:05):
going to be the kind of people who choose to
get you a gift anyway, even if you did alleviate
that burden. Often the group will go in on a
group gift together, or like you said, you could pick
something off the registry. I would wait a little bit
to find out if anyone is suggesting a group gift
before just grabbing something off the registry. But there's nothing
that prevents you from doing that.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay, So from the perspective of the couple getting married,
what gifts are they expected to bestow upon their wedding
party and when at which events?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So typically there's like a bridesmaid's luncheon, and that would
be a time for a bride to give gifts and
the groomsman it's more of that time right before the
wedding where they're getting ready together. They don't have a
definitive party other than the bachelor party, and it's often
something that they might be able to wear. So whether
(25:58):
it's a nice tie or a belt or something like that.
For the bridesmaids, it's often again something they might all wear,
Like my sister got us all a little necklace with
a little pendant on it that would go nicely with
our dresses, and a shawl or you know. I had
another friend who did little small clutch purses and she
filled them with some little trinkity things. So it's really
(26:22):
up to you. But typically the luncheon, either the week
of or the day before the wedding, is a time
where the bride throws a luncheon for her bridesmaids to
thank them for all they've done.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, my best friend got us all tie clips that
had our role on it, which was like we all,
I know, I love a tie clip, so classy and
it was just like really really special, like it had
the date on it and I think our names on it.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Gentlemen, take note, that is a very great gift.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Coming up on grown up stuff, How do adult talk
to me about?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Speeches?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
So wedding dependent. Some people do not deserve microphones, So
fusible person, have a no mic list? Give it to
your DJ, you'r mc whoever it is. No, Oh, no
mic list is.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So a thing. We'll be right back after a quick break.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
And we're back with more growd up stuff. How to adults.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So, as a wedding party member, I'm curious to hear
what your best advice would be for managing I don't
want to say difficult, you know, bride or groom, but
like you know, maybe they're overwhelmed by the day right
and they need a little bit of extra help. What's
your best advice for managing those people on that day?
Speaker 3 (27:41):
I think moving to those good What is it like
armchair therapist, like you know, like kitchen therapist moments? What
do you need What can I do for you right now?
Like reassurance, There are a lot of things that you
can't do anything about if it is pouring rain and
you have an outdoor wedding. I mean, I'm hoping you've
(28:02):
set a contingency plan, but honestly, the only thing you
can do in that moment is to validate someone's disappointment
and let them know that this is not ideal, but
it doesn't have to ruin the day.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I also feel like there's plenty of logistical stuff, Like
I remember when my brother was getting married, my dad's
the clasp on his pants broke and his pants were
literally falling down around his ankles, and we figure out
how to fix the clasp on his pants. So, like
I mean, stuff like that is going to come up
on the day of the wedding, and so it is.
(28:34):
Sometimes you're just there to like fill in the gaps.
You know you are.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
You might be there to run to the nearest Walgreens
to grab a sewing kicks, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
What I mean? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
And in many ways, as you know, attendant, that is
your job. You were that person so that the bride
or the groom or the father, the bride doesn't have
to be the person to go do it, and so
I think preparing yourself to play a support role, preparing
yourself to be a helper, I think is a really
good mental space to get yourself into whomever and the
(29:11):
couple you are supporting. The key is to be a
good listener, don't diminish their feelings, find the bright side
of their concerns, and try to put their mind at
ease as best you can without invalidating their emotions. Remind
them of the big picture and what the day is
really about. Speeches at the reception can be a great
way to remind your happy couple what's most important. But
(29:33):
it may surprise you who is actually expected to give
a speech? I want to get to the speeches at
the wedding.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So important, arguably the most important thing.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah yeah, so I know normally the best person or
the person of honor is expected to give a speech.
But are other people in the wedding party expected to
give speeches to Can they? Who else?
Speaker 2 (29:57):
You know?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Talk to me about speeches?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
So wedding dependent Because as we said earlier, some people
do not deserve microphones. So for out of all person
have a no mic list, give it to your DJ,
you'r mc whoever it is. No, oh, no, mic list
is so a thing. Technically only the best man is
like obligated to give a speech, which I find shocking
(30:19):
every time I say it, and every time I say it,
I want to run back to my book and look
through it because I feel like, what are you talking about?
Of course, a father of the bride gives a speech,
and of course a maid of honor gives a speech,
and really it's up to you who you have due
speeches and toasts, and if your best man isn't someone
who you can trust, then don't have your best man
(30:41):
do it. It's okay, like it is okay to pass
that to the person that you feel the most confident
about asking that honor of. But typically the best man
would give the speech and kick it off and anyone
who wants to go after that.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Ken, I'm curious to know from your end, like, what
are your recommendations for nailing the speech.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I think that to nail the speech, you really want
it to be about the couple and their love and
their commitment on this day. I think people get into
trouble when they start making it about celebrating one person
in the couple, or just their relationship to the one
person in the couple that they're closer to. And I
(31:23):
also think that some people think that the job of
the best man is to embarrass or to cause the
bride to blush and not true, Like your goal with
this speech is to say something supportive and thoughtful, and
I think kind and I don't think that the goal
should be to embarrass or to paint a picture of
(31:46):
what life was like before you met this person. And
you know, there's a lot especially with people who maybe
sewed a lot of wild oats, like you know, there's.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
This is not the place for that joke.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
That's what the bachelor party is for or the bachelorette party.
But I would say from an etiquette perspective, it is
not the right tone to strike. You really want to
go sentimental, supportive, focus on the couple.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And I've done a couple of speeches, and so the
first one I did, it was a little long, was
the it was about ten minutes long, and I've learned
that that's too long. So I think that like the
sweet spots I've been told is like between like three
to five minutes. Three to seven minutes maybe, but like
not much longer than seven minutes. And generally people say
like keep it to five. Sod you are there any
(32:33):
hard and fast rules there with the speeches in the timelinth.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think that all the ranges you just listed are smart.
Ten feels way too long. Seven starts to push it.
Five is you've really been up there talking for a while,
and you as a as a podcast and radio hosts
know that like thirty seconds, you can convey so much
information in thirty seconds when I really get down to it,
(32:56):
three minutes is probably a wonderful time. Yeah, Like I
bet that that gives you enough time to really get
into something and get back out of it without people
even feeling like, oh boy, should I look at my watch?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Now, what if you are asked to be a person
of honor or a best person, so like the top tier, Yeah,
and perhaps you know, Okay, this person's going to expect
me to plan the party, is going to expect me
to do X, Y and Z and be at you know,
all these different places, and I just can't give that
level of commitment? Can you decline that? But say like, hey,
(33:30):
I'll be just a regular like bride's person or groom's person.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think it's a little harder to go from that
of honor role or that best man role into the
space of attendant, a little easier to drop all the
way back to like doing a reading or something like
they're giving a toast or something like that. But I
think you could say, boy, I know that you're really
looking for a lot out of your maid of honor,
(33:56):
and I am looking at the calendar and looking at
this year and realizing that I would not be able
to do the job justice. So if you would still
like me as a bridesmaid, I would love to be
a bridesmaid. If you'd still like me as a groomsmanner
and honor attendant, I would love to be that, but
I can't play the role at that level, is probably
what I would say. And then it's really up to
them where they place you after that.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Yeah, fair, Lizzie. Thank you so much for being with us.
It's always a pleasure to have you and listen. I
know we've got more wedding topics that we got to
grow up about, so I'm sure we'll have you back.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Awesome, Thanks so much, shame you.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I have such a good time talking with.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
You too, Lizzie. The pleasure is truly ours and we
love talking etiquette with you, especially the wedding variety. Here's
what I'm taking with me from this conversation. I'm being
a member of a wedding party. When it comes to
choosing a wedding party, remember it's your wedding and you
(34:53):
are not obligated to pick anyone other than the people
you want up there next to you, no matter the age, gender,
or the number people in the party. Even if you
are not asked to be in the wedding party but
have been asked to help in a different way, you
are still a trusted and close friend of the couple
and they know they can rely on you. You are
not obligated to pay for or plan any of the parties.
(35:17):
In fact, all of the pre wedding parties are optional
to have or even attend. The only things you have
to go to as an attendant are the rehearsal, rehearsal dinner,
and the wedding itself. Sometimes the best thing you can
do to help your couple is asking them, Hey, what
do you need right now and remind them to focus
on the significance of the day they get to marry
(35:39):
someone they love and spend the rest of their life
with this person. Validation is also super important. Don't try
to gaslight anyone about what's happening. If things start to
go awride. Your job is to soothe and calm, not
to tell them they're ridiculous for being upset about certain things.
Stuff is going to happen on the day of. It
is your job as an attendant to try to help
(36:01):
fix any little mishaps that occur and be a problem
solver where needed. Technically, according to the Emily Post Rules
of Etiquette, only the best man is supposed to give
a speech to the reception, but many weddings use this
role to kick off multiple speeches. Ultimately, it's up to
the couple to decide who is making speeches, but it
never hurts to give the band leader or DJ a
(36:23):
no mic list for the night to keep the mics
in the right hands. If you've been asked to give
a speech at either the rehearsal or the reception, three
minutes is the sweet spot. Any longer is excessive. I've
made a decision about wedding parties for myself, and what
I think is that if that day ever comes for
(36:45):
me fingers crossed. I'm just gonna have one person standing
next to me and one person standing next to the
person I marry. You know, keep it simple, no regirts, Matt.
Any big surprises for you about wedding parties.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
And just a side now. We will put Molly's hinge
profile in the link in the description, so go ahead
and click.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
On that.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
First. Seeing a few surprises for me around speeches, I
didn't know that traditionally only the best man or the
best person was expected to give a speech and no
one else, right, But it's really beautiful to see the
liberties people are taking with it. You know, the parents
are speaking. I've seen weddings where the rehearsal dinner people
are giving speeches. I went to a wedding where like
literally everyone in the room stood up and said something
(37:25):
about the happy couples. So I think the important thing
to take away is that it's your wedding day and
that you should do whatever you want to do.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Here here, Matt. But moving on, what can our friends
expect to learn On the next episode of Grown Up
Stuff How to Adult?
Speaker 2 (37:38):
In two weeks, we'll be digging into tipping culture. Somewhere
between the advent of tipping screens and the rampant inflation
we're all experiencing has left us a little confused what
to do when we're at the tip and counter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Honestly, I feel like a lot more people are asking
for tips that weren't asking for them before, and that
we didn't ever tip before. So I have a lot
of confusion on who I'm supposed to tip and exactly
how much I'm supposed to tip. I do know that
I am a solid twenty percenter at a dine in restaurant, though.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
But is that enough too much? And where else should
we be tipping. We're going to sort through all the
confusion and hopefully get a straight answer on the next
episode of grown Up Stuff, How do adult?
Speaker 1 (38:15):
And remember you might not be graded in life, but
it never hoots. It never hurts to do your homework.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It never hoiites to do your.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Home never want to do your homewook.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
This is a production from Ruby's Studio from My Heart Media.
Our executive producers are Molly.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Soshia and Matt Stillo. This episode was engineered by Matt Stillo.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And written in a clothus by Molly Sosha.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
This episode was edited by Sierra Spreen, and we
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Want to thank our teammates at Ruby Studio, including Ethan Fixel,
Rachel Swan Krasnov, Amber Smith, Deborah Garrett, and Andy Kelly
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