Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everyone remembers their twenty first birthday. Okay, maybe not everyone
remembers their twenty first birthday, but for many Americans it
marks a significant rite of passage because once you're twenty
one in the States, you're legally allowed to buy alcohol,
and based on twenty twenty one data from Gallup, sixty
(00:24):
one percent of US adults twenty one and older say
they and vibe. But our drinking habits at twenty one
can sometimes be very different once we graduate from college,
and our social drinking outings transition from the local house
party or sporting event into work happy hours with colleagues
and clients, or first dates with someone you're really vibing with. Oftentimes,
(00:47):
there comes a point when we're ready to graduate from
those early drink orders of jello shots and forty ounce
bottles of cheap beer two more sophisticated options. But what
does grown up drinking look like? And how do we
find the balance of feeling sophisticated and adult like without
(01:07):
sacrificing our own tastes and preferences. Start taking notes, because this.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Is grown up stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome to grown up stuff. How to adult?
I am Molly, one of your faithful hosts, and I
am joined by my designated driver on speed dial and
co host Matt Stillo. And if you're listening to this
episode on the day it's been released into the world,
then a happy all, Hello Zi to you.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Matt.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Any big Halloween plans.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
As do you very well know? I enjoy living my
life at the intersection of low effort high impact. So
every year I do Donnie Darko really simple. It's a
skeleton onesie with a sweater over it because it gets
cold in New York. So been that for like eight
years in a row. But you know, for all the
people who do love it, more power to you. Are
you one of those people?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I actually hate the smell of face paint and like
the rubber masks that people wear on Halloween, Like there's
something of triggering about it for me that I just
do not like.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
What is a hollow? By the way, do we even
know what that is?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Great question. The noun of a hallow means a saint
or holy person, and the verb is to make holy
or set apart for holy use. According to Miriam Webster,
so and Halloween is the eve of All Saints Day, so,
which is November first, hence All Hallows Eve, so the
Eve of All Saints Day, you are welcome.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
See. The only real thing that I know about Halloween
is that it's one of the largest drinking holidays of
the year.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
This is very true, one of the drunkest days of
the year. And that is a perfect segue because Matt,
in this episode, we're going to learn how to elevate
our drinking habits and feel more like adults while we're
doing it. I am really looking forward to hearing what
our guest has to share about this topic.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I truly am so excited. We are joined by a
very special guest today, Ethan Fixel.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Ethan is a certified cicerone, a certified Specialist of Spirits,
and a certified Specialist of wine, and he has taught beer,
wine and spirits classes at the Astor Center, the Brooklyn Kitchen,
and NYC Wine Company.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Ethan has also written about beer, wine, spirits, and coffee
for publications like Oh My God, Do I have to
list all of these food and wine wine enthusiasts, Eschoir, Vanity,
Fair Men's Journal, Tasting Table, Thrillists, Travel and Leisure, Vice,
and many many more.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But most importantly, I do feel like it is my
journalistic obligation to identify that Ethan is also.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Our boss us. These are facts, Ethan.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Thank you so much for joining us. We're so excited
to have you here on grown up stuff how to adult.
But first we just right off your bio. What is
and I forgive me, I'm probably going to butcher it.
What is a certified cicerone?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Chiccirone?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Now you did better than Stillo. That was Matt. That
was chiccerone. Chir it sounds like a pork rind.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Look, you can be certified in pork rimes.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
You could. I'm not.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I wish I was certified in pork rinds.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I am a certified cicerone, which is sort of like
a beer somelier, I would say, interesting. But I'm also
a certified specialist of wine and a certified specialist of
spirits thanks to the Society of Wine Educators. So I
have three certifications, which my mother is very proud of.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
She should be. That's super impressive. Now, what is the
difference between being a certified specialist of wine and being
a SMO? I always struggle with this word, somalie. Thank you, Matt.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Cicerone is a service industry certification, right, So if you
are a certified cicerone, that means that you can actually
work in a restaurant or a bar and help serve beer.
That is similar to a somolier, a wine service expert.
There are also other types of experts like the Society
of Wine Educators that I got my wine and spirit
certifications through. Those are for education and not for service.
(05:13):
There's different tracks, but basically you know, some are for service,
some are for teaching people.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Got it, So you still know a ton, but you're
not serving the wine necessarily, but you are doing that
for the beer.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I'm working with you, guys, I'm currently not serving any
beer professionally, but I'm I did purchase beer for a
large restaurant group for a year or two. But most
of my background is in writing, so I was a
journalist for about three or four years full time.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Amazing. And I will say on a number of outings
together as a group, you have given excellent education in
spirits and you've done a couple of like at home
tastings with some of us like that was fun. So
I've learned a ton.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, and your alcohol and spirit collection at home is impressive.
Very impressive.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I have a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's super grown up.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It is. That's why I'm on grown up stuff. I
get all that stuff because I wrote. Most of my
collection is from publicists and from the brands themselves. I
don't spend all of my money that I make an
iHeart on boost.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
This brings us to a great point, which is why
might one want to drink like an adult? You know,
I go to the bar, I've got my ipa that
I like. You know, I enjoym all back wine. But
there's a deeper world to it than that. So why
might one want to know a little bit more about alcohol?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think it's really important to know what you like
first and foremost, so that you don't waste your money
because a lot of people go to a restaurant, or
they go to a liquor store and they don't know
where to start. I think that people are discouraged from
wanting to drink anything interesting because they are overwhelmed by
all the options. So I think having a little bit
(06:55):
of a baseline of understanding of you know, what all
this stuff is and what the differences are, is actually
really helpful and will alleviate some pain.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yeah, in your writing, you kind of talk about this
sort of cultural generational shift that's been going on in
the last you know, twenty years or so, about what's
happening in the alcohol industry. Could you go into that
a little bit for the audience.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, I think that there's a really nice thing happening
right now, which is that people are caring a little
bit more about what they drink and why they drink it,
and how they drink it. So, you know, I remember
going to college and drinking nothing but natty light and
the occasional yingling on a special occasion. But I think
more and more young people are being more deliberate with
(07:39):
their drinking choices. You know, they're not looking to go
out and get wasted. And adults too, like us, you know,
as you get older, you don't want that hangover. You
want to be able to enjoy one or two drinks
and have them count. And so I think that that
shift is happening quite a bit. I think people are
drinking less, but I think people are drinking with more
per which I think is a nice thing.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, Matt and I also talked about, like, you know,
there's this whole sober culture movement kind of happening, which
we'll get into a little bit more, but you said
a really interesting point about people are being more deliberate
and people don't want to waste their money on things
that they're not going to enjoy, which I have a
quick follow up question. Let's say you tried something new
at a bar and you're like, oh, I'm going to
(08:22):
give this a shot and you hate it. What is
the appropriate like adult bar protocol. Do you just finish it?
Do you just like leave it and you're like, that's
money wasted, or do you tell the bar tender they're like, hey,
I'm so sorry, I don't like this.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think it really depends on where you are and
what you're drinking. If you go to like a dingy
kind of hole in the wall dive bar and you
order a Budweiser and you say, wow, this is terrible.
This is not what I like. You just ordered a
Budweiser at a dive bar. That's what you're drinking, man,
enjoy it. Fair, that's your choice. If you go to
(08:56):
a really nice cocktail bar in New York City and
you pay twenty two dollars for a cocktail and you
find it literally undrinkable. You should tell your server that
you're having a tough time with it very politely and say,
I'm really sorry. This is just not what I expected.
It's not for me. Would you mind if I trade
this in for something else? And that's totally appropriate, But
it's all the delivery and the context in which you're
(09:19):
asking for.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
That that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
The other thing that you mentioned in you're writing is
that we're diving into like a culture of like cross drinking.
So whereas it seems like maybe people were sticking to
their what they loved beforehand, and now kind of people
are trying to get into, you know, lots of different
types of spirits. Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I think people have wisened up. We no longer believe
the old adage that beer before liquor never been sicker,
all that sort of stuff, and we could talk about
that hangovers, right, There's a lot of things that are
myths about hangovers. But I think ultimately people are drinking beer, wine,
and spirits equally because they understand that each serves a
different purpose. And so I personally I enjoy all three
(09:59):
of those categories is almost equally. I would say because
I think that there's a time and a place for
all of them. And I think that with so much
information being traded on a daily basis, with the Internet,
with social media, we can see and we're exposed to
so much more. It's the same with food, right. People
eat much broader variations of food today than in the
(10:20):
nineteen fifties when it was like peas and massed potatoes
and roast beef on the day table exactly. So we
have a lot more variety at our fingertips, and I
think people are taking advantage of that and that's great.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, exactly, We've got a lot more variety now. And
you'd mentioned people can kind of go into a restaurant,
into a bar, into a spirit shop and be overwhelmed
by the amount of soces. So how do we even
start to go about discovering what it is that we like.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
I think you got to start simply. You kind of
have to take it category by category. Beer, wine, spirits.
Start by finding one or two things that you really
like in each category and using that as your anchor point.
It can help you talk to an expert about what
you like and why you like that particular beverage.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Alcohol is too expensive these days not to actually enjoy
what you're drinking. The New York Times recently reported that
some bars in New York have increased the price of
their drinks by one dollar each to keep up with
rising operating costs. And it's already not uncommon to see
cocktail prices in the fifteen to twenty dollars range in
(11:31):
many major cities like la New York and Chicago. So
while it's important to try new things, it's also important
to identify what you like in that journey so that
you're not wasting your hard earned money on a drink
you're struggling to finish. Let's talk about palette training. What
(11:52):
is it? How can we use it to kind of
refine our tastes? Does it ever change when it comes
to alcohol, Like, for example, like we might not have
liked Brussels sprouts and now I love Brussels sprouts. Like
can it change with alcohol? Or at this point in
our life when we actually start drinking alcohol, is it
kind of set in stone?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, our tastes evolve, and I think we get, you know,
a little bit deadened to certain flavors, and so we're
able to tolerate spicier or more acidic or more bitter
things as we get older.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
But the way to train your palette as an adult,
as a grown up, as we say, is to just
taste a lot of different things. There are some training
kits that you can actually purchase. I believe Sebel makes
a sensory kit where you can actually knows all these
different aromas huh, and also taste all these different flavors
(12:44):
and you kind of start to develop a recognition for
these specific flavors. I mean, there's no way that anyone
who's ever tasting wine and says, oh, it reminiscent of
elderberry knows what the hell that is unless they've had
a frickin' elderberry.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
It's like the wood like, oh, it tastes like it's
very oaky. I'm like, who the fuck is chewing on
its its wig of oak here?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Well that's the thing, though, if you start tasting enough
wine or enough whiskey, you really, you know, eventually develop
a sense for what oak tastes like, okay, and what
it smells like. It really comes down to repetition and
exposure to these different flavor components, and you can take
a shortcut through these sensory kits, which I really recommend
(13:27):
if you want to get serious about it.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
That's so cool. As Ethan points out, our taste buds
change and evolve as we age. For example, according to
research conducted by experts from the Manel Chemical Senses Center,
we're born with a sweet tooth, but as we get older,
our sense of taste begins to dull and our taste
(13:51):
buds no longer regenerate. This changes the way we experience
flavors that once seemed so sharp to us when we
were younger. The National Institute on Aging recommends adding color
and texture to your food and drinks as you start
to lose that sense of taste to make things more interesting.
They also recommend to introduce bold spices and flavors like mustard, garlic, ginger,
(14:14):
and hot peppers. And as Ethan mentioned, all is not lost.
We can train our palates to recognize certain flavors better.
In addition to these pallet training kits, some experts recommend
swirling a glass of wine before you sniff it to
release the aromas. Others recommend visiting spice shops and letting
your nose take in all of the different smells.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Last year, Elena and I went to Napa Valley and
we had lots of expensive wine, we had lots of
not so expensive wine, and learned that they're all more
or less, you know, generally speaking, made the same, And
to my surprise, is one of my favorite wines I
had was like a relatively inexpensive bottle of Cabernet savignon.
(14:58):
And it led me to more less agree with that
adage that the best wine is the wine that you like.
And I'm curious to hear what you make of this sentiment.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I will get behind that statement the best wine is
the wine that you like, with a giant asterisk at
the end of it, because look, well I think you
guys will understand what I'm saying here. But there is
such a thing as objective quality when it comes to wine. Okay,
there are ingredients that are better, right. There are grapes
that are grown more organically, picked at the right time
(15:30):
or the wrong time or worst time, let's say. But
case in point, I went to a very commercial winery
in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh, I've heard good things about that area.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh my god, Pino noir in the United States, that's
where you go.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Oh, good to know.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Absolutely, So I went to this giant place that is
producing a tremendous amount of wine and because of that,
they have to harvest the grapes mechanically. And what that
means is that they're using these big machines to cut
down all of the vine once, are all of the
grapes at once, And with the grapes, they are getting bugs, plants,
(16:07):
other plants, they're getting dead birds. Like I mean, oh yeah, no, no, no,
I'm serious though that. You know, the larger the wine operation,
less care goes into the picking process or the fermenting
or the barreling. So like, there are changes in quality
as you go up the price ladder. But I will
(16:29):
say that ultimately, if you are not enjoying or getting
joy out of a fifty dollars bottle, or any more
joy out of that fifty dollars bottle than you are
out of the ten dollar bottle, then ultimately I would argue, yeah,
just stick with the ten dollars bottle.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
But at the same time, if you enjoy your two
buck chuck, right, thank you go for.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Enjoying, You're just gonna feel like crap tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Wait, okay, I want to get to that later. But
now we're talking about choosing the right wine. Is it
bad that I choose my wine based on how inging
I find the label to be.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
No, I wouldn't say that's bad.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I like a pretty label.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Well is that the sole factor that you're using.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I mean I'll be like, oh, I think I want
a mall back that sounds nice, and then I choose
based on the label, yes and price.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
See, there you go. You just said something very sophisticated
and very grown up. You're thinking about the variety, You're
thinking about potentially the region from which the wine has grown.
Let's say you're saying, Okay, well I want a mailback,
but I don't want Argentinean mailback, I want French mailbeck. Right,
So there's a difference there, And then you can look
at the label. And then I do think that the
label is a small percentage or a portion of what
(17:38):
you can make your decision on. But look, I mean,
if you want to really dive into it, I would say, like,
if a label is really intricately done and over the top,
and it seems like the marketing is the sole thing
that the winery is focusing on, or the primary thing
that could be also maybe not a great thing because
maybe they're paying more attention to the marketing than the wine.
(17:59):
But overall, I would say yes, that is a fair
way to influence your decision. It just shouldn't be the
sole reason you choose a bottle of wine.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
We'll be right back with more grown up stuff how
to adult after a quick break, and we're back with
more grown up stuff how to adults. So we've talked
a bit about wine at this point, I want to
move on to spirits, as you would call it, ethan Sure,
(18:33):
is it okay that I prefer to drink liquor or
spirits in a cocktail and not drink it by itself?
Does that mean I don't actually enjoy that particular alcohol
or no? Like, should I always be able to just
drink it plain?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
We would call it neat in the spirits world. Okay,
but it's okay to drink in a cocktail. I think
it just depends on what you're putting into the cocktail.
So there are certain spirits that are meant to be
enjoyed meat. They are let's say, I don't know, over
the one hundred dollars price point, and they are artisanal products, okay,
and the spirit maker or the distiller is trying to
(19:10):
make something very very unique and that is not necessarily
meant to be enjoyed in a cocktail. But I will
say that it is a little bit of a an
acquired taste a lot of these things, and so you
have to kind of explore enough of it to be
able to make an informed decision and really truly understand
what you're getting into.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
It's pallet training, it is.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's part of the training process, right.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
We want to get into some of the basics about
the alcohols themselves. So what are some of the most
important things that we should know about beer? You know,
people talk about like, you know, what's the difference between
a lagger and an ale enlighten us?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Well, a lagger and an ale that's a pretty straightforward one.
That has to do with the yeast. So there are
largely two strains of in general beer yeast. An ale
yeast it likes to ferment at a warmer temperature and
it's top fermenting, and the lagger yeast actually ferments at
a cooler temperature and that is bottom fermenting, so it
(20:06):
sits at the bottom of the tank. So actually these
organisms operate better optimally in different conditions, and because of
that you get different flavor components in the beer. So
an ale fermented warmer is going to have fruitier esters
to it. It's going to have a little bit more flavor,
a little bit fuller bodied. A lagger is going to
(20:27):
be cleaner, crisper because of that cold fermentation. That's the
two general larger categories of all types of beer. Lagger
and al most people's understanding of generic beer like the Simpsons,
Duff's beer would be like a lagger, your regular American
macro lagger. This is your Budweiser, your cores, all that stuff.
(20:48):
Those are made with adjuncts like corn and rice. What
you really want to do is try to find beers
that are a little bit more purer than that and
are just made from malt. Right, so you have malt, water, yeast,
and hops. Those are the real four key ingredients for beer.
And so seek out some laggers or some Pilsner's, which
(21:10):
is a style of lager that are made by a
craft brewery or are made by you know, more artisanal operation,
or even a macro brewer. I mean Anheuser Bush does
have some laggers and pilsner and some of their craft
portfolio that are pretty solid. But find something that's a
little bit more traditional when it comes to lager and
pilsner and see what you like, experiment taste. I mean,
(21:32):
those are very similar types of beers because they're all
very clean and crisp. And then on the ale side,
a lot of people always start with IPA.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
I love an IPA.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
IPA is great, but it's a broad category. India pale
ales were created out of necessity. The hops were meant
to preserve the beer as it traveled across the sea,
and as they made their way deeper into American culture,
it became about bitterness and about flavor, you know, another
dimension that they can add to these ales. So I
would say kind of play with that. Go to Beer Advocate,
(22:03):
go to RPE beer, go to Untapped, and look at
the top ranked beers in each category and try to
seek those out and learn more about what they represent.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So when you go to like a craft brewery and
you kind of like look at their list, a lot
of times you'll see ciders on there and so like
which brings up the question like is cider actually a
beer or is it really just like a wine in disguise.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Cider is not beer or wine. Cider is cider. It's
its own category, and cider is basically the exact same
thing as wine or beer. All three things are just
fermented beverages, but they are each their own category because
they are made from specific ingredients. Wine is made from grapes,
must be made from grapes, beer must be made from grain,
(22:46):
and cider must be made from apples or fruit. You know,
we can make it from pears as well. So yeah,
cider is its own thing, and dry cider, traditional cider
is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So we want to get into wine now, and so
same thing. So what are some basic things that our
audience should know about wine and where they should start
if they're getting into drink wine.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Great question. My number one suggestion is to not assume
that varieties are everything. Right, the grape is not everything.
So some people say, oh I don't drink chardonnay, Oh
I don't drink Cabernet or Merleaux. I mean sideways, that
whole thing with the movies, Sideways that ruin Marretta. If
they want to drink Merlau, we're drinking Merlau.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Now, if anybody orders melow, I'm leaving.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
I am not drinking any fucking Merlaukay, Okay, relax, miles.
The problem is that a grape is only part of
the equation. The rest of the equation is who is
making the wine and where are they growing the grapes, Because,
for example, a Sauvignon blanc from New Zealand is going
to taste completely different than a classic French white Bordeaux.
(23:56):
So it's really all about where the wine is from.
I would say start to learn a little bit more
about wine regions rather than just grapes. And I'm sick
of people saying that they don't like shardonnay because they've
had overoaked, you know, gnarly popcorn buttery chardonnay from the
United States, when Burgundy is making world class, unbelievable shardonnay
(24:22):
and has been for centuries.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Wine is made all over the world. There are vineyards
in France, Italy, Australia, Portugal, South Africa, and even Wisconsin.
But the flavors of the grapes and the taste of
the wine are greatly impacted by things like climate, sun exposure, topography,
and soil composition, all of which vary greatly by region,
which is why certain regions are known better for very
(24:49):
specific varietals. For example, warmer climates typically yield grapes with
higher sugar content, which may result in sweeter wines. Eden
has a few recommendations on the best regions to certain varietals.
When it comes to Malbeck, France is a very classic representation,
or if you're looking for a bigger boulder Malbeck, check
out the ones from Argentina for a pino noir Burgundy.
(25:11):
They are a very classic representation, but they can also
be pretty pricey. The Willemette Valley in Oregon also has
some great pino noirs. For Cabernet, Sauvignon or Molo. Bordeaux
is the classic here, but you can also get some
nice ones from Napa Valley, California. If you're a Rose fan,
which Ethan wants me to make sure, I stipulate that
(25:31):
this is not a variety but a style of wine.
The gold standard is typically found from Provence, France. Pino
grigios Italy only. Do not drink a pino Grecia from
anywhere else. Sevignon blanc censer or white Brideaux is the classic,
but New Zealand's also another great place to get a
sauvignon blanc from. It's fresh, it's bright, it's zippy, it
(25:51):
has refreshing citrus and grassy flavors. The Burgundy region is
classic for chardonnay. It's under oaked, it has an emphasis
on fruit flavor and yeast, but Central California can be oakier,
but with a much richer flavor.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Oftentimes, when you go visit a friend who enjoys wine,
you'll see a bottle of white wine chilling in their fridge,
and that feels like the right thing to do. And
then sometimes you'll go to another friend's house and they're
chilling a bottle of red wine and that just feels
wrong to me. So, I mean, is it wrong to
chill red wine?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, it depends on what kind of red wine we're
talking about. You could give a little chill to some
beaujeulais nouveau. You could actually give certain red wines a chill.
But largely speaking, you know, red wine is best served
a little bit below room temperature, just a hair. Oh,
and white wine is generally speaking best served a little
(26:49):
bit below that right, so a little cooler. But we
do want to again think about what is the wine,
What is the ABV the alcohol by volume? Is there
age on this wine? What is the variety the region
that is going to contribute to the service temperature? But
largely speaking, if I were to generalize for every wine
(27:11):
out there, which Anysseboa will cringe at this statement, you
generally want to serve wine just a little bit below
room temperature.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
That's really interesting. So let's talk about decanting aerating. I
feel like they're sort of similar, but they're different. Are
they necessary? When should we do them? When is it like, hey,
you could just pop the cork and let it sit.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, Well, not all wine is meant to be aged.
That's a huge flag. I want to kind of make
the vast majority of wine. In fact, i'd say probably
ninety percent of wine that's produced and sold is not
meant to be aged. It is meant to be enjoyed immediately.
It does not necessarily need to be aerated, and it
certainly doesn't need to be decanted because it is not
(27:56):
going to benefit from the introduction of oxygen to the
It is a fresh wine. That is, you know, there's
a great scene in the Jerk. It's the best thing ever.
Because he goes out to dinner and he's got all
this money to spend. He's really upset with the waiter
because they are serving him all of these older vintages.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Let's your care for another bottle?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Ah, Yes, but no more nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Let's splurge. Bring us some fresh wine, the precist you've
got this year's no more of this old stuff. But
the irony of that joke is that a lot of
quote unquote fresh wine, new wines are fantastic. You just
want to drink it right out of the bottle and
it has a twist cap probably, and that's totally cool too.
The small percentage of wines in the world that are
(28:41):
with cork top and are meant to be aged. We're
talking about like fine Burgundy, fine Bordeaux, you know, Rioha,
wines from the great regions of the world, even your
Napa cab Matt. Those are are meant to go for
a long time because there is enough acid, enough tannin,
enough alcohol for the wine to survive a long time
(29:04):
in the bottle. And so when you open that wine,
you want to give it a chance to breathe. You
want to introduce some oxygen when you finally open it,
because it hasn't interacted much with oxygen other than the
little that's coming through the cork in a micro level
for a very long time.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
So you mentioned, you know, if it's a wine, it
has to be made with grapes. If it's a beer,
it has to be made with grains. But a lot
of spirits are made with grains. So what exactly makes
spirits different?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
What makes them spirity?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Spirits is an interesting category because unlike wine and beer,
you know, it's a lot broader of a category because
actually within it there are subcategories. You've got vodka, whiskey, rum, brandy,
et cetera. Brandy, by the way, is distilled wine, right,
so it starts as wine and becomes a spirit. Spirits
in general are all distilled, so they all like beer,
(29:58):
wine insider must be be fermented first, and then what
you're going to do is you're going to concentrate the alcohol.
You're going to distill it. You're going to separate the
water from the alcohol so that you have a much
more intense beverage.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
I never really understood that's what distilling means that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yes, And so depending on what the base of your
ferment is, that's going to determine the subcategory of the spirit.
So whiskey must be made from grain, brandy from grapes,
rum from sugarcane, and then vodka can pretty much be
made from anything, because the key to vodka is that
(30:35):
it's supposed to be an odorless, flavorless spirit. It is
a pure distillation, so it can be made from any
of those things I just named.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And what about gin.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Gin is basically vodka with an infusion of botanicals more
or less.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
I always wanted to know that with juniper.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, that's right, Juniper b is at the core of
that botanical list.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I also was recently in London and I found out
that what makes a London dry gin is that they
used to make it with like fruits. But in the
olden times, olden days it was right, there was a refrigerator,
so often their fruit would come over imported and be rotting,
and it's really gross to make an alcohol with rotting fruit.
And so what they would do is they would dry
the fruits before they would even get there, and then
they would make alcohol from those dried fruits or dried botanicals,
(31:20):
and that's why we get London dry gin.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And now the student becomes the teacher.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
One question that comes up a lot is, you know, Scotch, rye, bourbon, whiskey, Like,
isn't it all the same thing? What differentiates these kind
of like sub varieties.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, this is all about place, right region m h.
Scotch whiskey is whiskey that's made in Scotland in Ireland. Yeah,
you knew that one.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
Bourbon Kentucky, Well.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
See you didn't know that one. Fun because bourbon can
actually be produced anywhere in the United States, but it
does have to be the United States. Kentucky just happens
to be the birthplace and the largest producer of bourbon.
But bourbon, and then you have within American whiskey. Of
all these subcategories, right, bourbon must be fifty one percent
or more corn rye. Whiskey is the same as bourbon,
except it must be fifty one percent or more rye
(32:11):
grain in the bill.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, but I also think it goes back to like
the way that you're going to figure out what you
like is by repetition, by trying all these things. You know,
if who knows if you like bourbon better than rye
until you try them.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah. I think if I had to summarize all these
lessons into like three points, taste a lot of things,
think more about where the spirit is coming from, and
drink what you like, but consider quality.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
I love that. But here's one adult situation that we
really want to talk about. How does one determine the
most appropriate beverage to order for any given day, place,
time event.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
I think the number one thing, again is to look
at where you are. Everything is context, right. If you're
at a wedding on a vineyard, you're probably gonna want
to try the wine and see what the wines are like.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
That's rice.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, you know, if you are in Japan, you might
want to try sake. I think it really ultimately comes
down to where you are and what's available. Going back
to that dive bar, usually I drink Budweiser, or I
drink a you know, a macro brew when I'm at
a very kind of I don't know, divy bar that
that doesn't really seem to make great cocktails. So don't
(33:22):
expect to get you know, a certain level of quality
from certain venues. If it's pretty clear that they only have,
you know, two ingredients on their bar, uh, and they
don't look like and one of them is clorox, you know,
Like there's there's definitely some key indicators to point you
in the right direction, But just think about where you
(33:42):
are and think about what the place that you're at
would best be able to serve you.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
I want to run through some terms that we hear
a lot at bars and that we may want to
use when we're ordering to make us sound more in
the know, you know, more grown up. Okay, let's start
with on the rocks. On the rocks is on ice okay,
and shaken.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Shaken means to be put into a shaker and not stirred,
which would be a little gentler. So you'd get a
little bit more ice influence in the cocktail when it's shaken.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Okay, and then stirred is just gentler. But would you
serve it over ice still? I guess it depends, right.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It depends on the cocktail. So if you're ordering a
martini or a Manhattan and there's no ice in it,
after you would say I'll have.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
It up, okay. So it's the same thing as like
straight up like or neat.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Up means like in a Martini glass, meat would be
with no ice, not shaken, not stirred, nothing, just the
exact spirit from the bottle into your glass.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Oh okay, got it? So up would still imply that
like you might have shaken, you might have stirred, but
there's nothing else in the glass, right they pour it? Okay? Twist.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
A twist is a little garnish, often lime or lemon.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay. Now, I've heard this term referred in different ways,
So this is a tricky one, and any contact that
you can give us for the different ways would be helpful.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Dirty dirty would be with the addition of olive juice.
It's real naughty in your martini.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
One of my favorite drinks is a dirty surely though.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Oh that sounds disgusting. No, it's not leaving this show.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
It's a Shirley temple with alcohol in it, and they
call it a dirty Shirley.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Oh. Dirty can also mean, I guess, with the influence
of alcohol. But you know, if you're already ordering on
alcoholic beverage, it would be a redundant to call it dirty.
So I guess my thought was that they were putting
olive juice in your grenadine and jingiel and I.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Was that yegg in my mouth hideous? I agree with
you on that. Let's jump to handling our alcohol.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
I feel like it's a marathon and I want to
carblowed before I go out and join friends for drakes.
Is it sure that if I eat an entire pasta
meal or a loaf of bread, that I'm suiting up
for better success in terms of how I feel.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I wouldn't say that you necessarily have to eat an
higher loaf of bread.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
No, I want the whole loaf.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Well, that's on you. That part is on you. But yes,
having a little bit in your stomach is absolutely going
to help absorb the alcohol. I always recommend eating with
alcohol and never just drinking without any food. That is
a recipe for disaster. It's not like you need to
eat more than usual, but you need to eat something
(36:23):
with your booze. Carbs will absolutely soak up a little
bit more of that alcohol and will allow you to
kind of drink a little bit more.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
You mentioned up top the whole adage beer before licker.
It never been sicker liquor than beer. You're in the clear.
Is there any truth at all? And if so, like,
where does wine fit into that equation?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, I mean drinking order is kind of a myth.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Wow, this is blowing my mind.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, well that's what I'm here to do. I do
want to clarify though, that you know, if you are
going to switch between beer, wine spirits back and forth
all over the place, what ends up happening is it
becomes very hard to track how much alcohol you've had,
and in addition, your sugar levels are going to be
all over the place. So I do think that there
(37:07):
is some a kernel of truth to that statement.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
But that's a really good point. Is like we can
go out and it's really easy, especially like at things
like weddings, to lose track of just how much you've
been drinking. Maybe if you don't intend to get sloshed.
Do you have recommendations for ways to kind of avoid
those accidental overindulgences, Like do you recommend doing water after
every drink or anything like that?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Absolutely? And I think you nailed it. I think the
key is to have a full glass of water after
each drink and to give yourself a little bit of
time in between. You can literally mix up and match
any type of liquor alcohol whatever it is throughout the
whole night. As long as you're spacing them out by
you know, thirty minutes an hour and drinking full glass
of water in between, that's not going to you know,
(37:53):
affect you if you're moving around the beverage map. It's
all about what you do in between that matters. And
then I would say before you go to bed, very
important that you have more water.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Water is good and water is your friend. It's super
important to drink lots of water if you're gonna have
multiple drinks in a night. Additionally, the Journal of Clinical
Medicine reported that social drinkers who have higher dietary intake
of zinc and B vitamins also experience less severe hangovers
the next morning. Hangovers and the general embarrassment of drinking
(38:28):
too much are reason enough not to drink alcohol at all,
and there are a lot of people adopting sober lifestyles
that still involve going out to the bars and enjoying
non alcoholic or de alcoholized beverages. According to reporting by Forbes,
non and low alcoholic beverage sales grew by more than
seven percent in twenty twenty two and surpassed eleven billion dollars.
(38:53):
That's billion with a bee in value. Ethan also has
thoughts on the best ways to be a sophisticated drink
when you're not drinking alcohol. Last thing I want to
talk about here is that there is a driving trend
right now to more sober living, and we're seeing entire
mocktail menus at bars now too, Entire bars, entire bars
(39:17):
dedicated to Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Absolutely, those people are evil.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Even at my craft brewery in my neighborhood, they now
have like a ton of really great non alcoholic beers.
I've seen non alcoholic wines. How can we kind of
make the best choices on those? Do you have any
recommendations about how to mocktail like an adult or how
to you know, sober drinking like an adult?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, a couple things. First of all, de alcoholized beverages
are completely different than beverages that never had alcohol in
them at all. The reason that I recommend de alcoholized beverages,
for example, de alcoholized beer or cider. If you drink
a de alcoholized cider, you're still going to have the
yeast component there, the flavor, the complexit that the yeast
(40:00):
gives to the beverage. Whereas if you drink cider that
has never had yeast introduced to it, you're drinking apple juice.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I do like apple juice.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I mean, listen, you're welcoing to have an apple juice,
but don't call it sid. I would say that that
is one big component. The second thing is the quality
of ingredients and the people who are making it. Did
they seem to put some thought into the botanicals or
the herbal ingredients, or the fruits or the syrups that
they're using, or does it seem like it was cheaply
put together and kind of offhand like, oh yeah, this
(40:30):
is just for those people who don't want to drink
Yeah whatever, we don't care. So you know, thinking about
like where it's coming from and how it's being crafted
is really important. And then you know, just go for
ingredients that appeal to you.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
Great advice, Great advice. Yeah, and like, don't get a
hoodwinked by somebody being like, oh, this is our virgin
screwdriver when it's really just a glass of tropicicano.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
That's that's right. I would say that that is a
place you should never go to again, depending on what
they charge you. True charging you screwdriver prices. They are
there to screw drive you out of that business.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Love a pon, Love a pon.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I think that's a great place to end it. That's
all the time we have for today. Eden, Thank you
so much for joining Molly and I today as we
navigate the world of drinking like an adult. And I
would say goodbye for now, but we've got a meeting
coming up in about a half hour, so I guess
we'll see that.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
We never say goodbye to you.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
I'll see you guys there. Thanks for having me on.
This is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Thanks Ethan. Truly lessons to live by, and I will
continue to eat a hole asagna before I go out
to the bar with my friends. It hasn't failed me yet.
But here's what else I've learned from our conversation with Ethan.
There's a time and a place where it's appropriate to
(41:48):
trade in your drink for something else. You can always
train your palette, and there are even kits that you
can buy to help, but ultimately it's super important to
be open to trying new things in the process of
training your palate and finding what you like. Gin and
vodka are the same thing basically, but gin is made
with botanicals, juniper berries being at the center of those botanicals.
(42:11):
Not all wine needs to breathe. If it's got a quark,
sure give it a second. But a lot of wines
that are those twist off caps now are not meant
to be aged and are meant to be enjoyed fresh taste,
a lot of things. Think about where the spirit is
coming from, and drink what you like. It always, always,
(42:32):
always helps to have something in your stomach prior to
drinking to avoid your alcohol getting the best of you.
Drinking order is a myth. It's more important to keep
track of how much you're drinking and that you're giving
yourself more time in between drinks. Mocktails and non alcoholic
drinks can be a nice way to participate in drinking
(42:52):
culture while staying sober, and just like with alcoholic beverages,
it's all about quality of ingredients and the thought going
into the final product. That's it for this episode, Matt,
what kind of grown up stuff are we unpacking next?
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Well, first, we're going to take a little break and
come back to you in three weeks, right before Thanksgiving
on November twenty first, with a discussion of how to
navigate family dynamics, especially when we're all huddled around the
holiday table.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Oh boy, and a lot of dynamics it is to navigate.
Let me tell you, there might be some cry there
might be some screaming, and that's just how I feel
about you know, green Bean cast role.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Well, hopefully this year will be the first year that
it ends in peace, Molly. Maybe maybe a.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Little hope this year we'll find out on grown up
stuff how to adults.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
And remember you might not be graded in life, but
it never hurts to do your homework.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
This is a production from Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Our executive producers are Molly Sosha.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
And Matt Stillo. This episode was engineered by Matt.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
Stillo and written by Molly Sooshia.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
This episode was fact checked by Caspy Bias.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Additional editing by Sierra Spreen.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
We want to thank our teammates at Ruby Studios, including
Ethan fit Exile, Rachel Swan Krasnoff, Amber Smith, Deborah Garrett,
and Andy Kelly.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
M hm
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Hm