Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Remember that moment when you were a kid and some
childhood prankster informed you that you were exposing your epidermis
in public. Then eventually someone else graciously explained to you
that your epidermis, well, it's just a science y word
for your skin. To be precise, the epidermis is the
top of three layers of your body's gorgeous largest organ,
(00:29):
and it does a whole boatload for you, starting with
protecting your insights from germs and infection. According to doctor
Deborah S. Sarnoff, a dermatologist and president of the Skin
Cancer Foundation, our skin is also an emotional organ and
the most sensory organ in our body. Not only does
it respond to things like temperature, pain, pressure, pleasure, and more,
(00:54):
but it also reacts to the stress that we feel.
Anyone who gets stress hives knows this firsthand, and I
see you. Simply put, your skin is incredible and does
so much for you. But there are also elements that
harm our skin, like UV rays, pollution, and things called
free radicals. These things cannot only damage your skin and
(01:17):
increase the appearance of aging, but more importantly, they can
also cause serious harm and conditions like skin cancer. It's
enough to make you want to cover up every inch
of your body. But fear not. There are ways to
keep your skin happy, healthy and safe so that you
can feel confident showing off that luminescent epidermis. Start taking
(01:41):
notes because this is grown up stuff. Hey, hey, hey,
we're back. This is the season two premiere of Grown
Up Stuff How to Adult Matt. I am so glad
to be back on this journey with you. How are
(02:02):
you How are you feeling about adulthood lately?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Wow? I'll answer your question with a situation.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh, I love situation.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Here's the scene. It is Sunday, and I'm in my
Vanguard Retirement Account portfolio and I am reallocating funds. I
am taking my international index fund, I am moving it
into a US S and P five hundred fund. I
am rebalancing my portfolio like a grown up because I
know what to do because I listened to this podcast, Molly.
(02:29):
So that's how I'm feeling about being a grown up.
But you know, lately, other things have come up, like
I'm waking up in the morning and my skin be dry?
Is this my problem? Do I live in a cold climate?
Do I need to be moisturizing more?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Matt, I love when you give me a perfect segue
into the topic for our episode, because today we're digging
skin deep and talking about that fleshy layer that keeps
all of our bones and muscles and guts together in
one cute little package, and that's our skin. Matt, let
me ask you a question you've already told me your
(03:03):
family a little dry. What does your skincare routine currently
look like?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
My skincare routine includes me hopping in the shower, rubbing
soap on my face, hopping out of the shower, and
waiting until morning to put a moisturizer on. And sometimes
when it's super sunny outside and I have one near me,
I will put some sunscreen on. But that's maybe like
(03:28):
three days out of the year.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
You don't put moisturizer on at night after you wash
your face.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
No, and apparently I need to be putting it all
over my entire body too. This is what my wife does.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I have two different kinds of body lotion that I
put on. I have an oil that I put on
this anti cellulite, and then I have a rest of
my body lotion with just hyaluronic acid in it. Because
I'm a big fan of that ingredient. Don't know what
it does, but a big fan.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Man.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
My sister's been telling me my whole life that I
need to educate myself on skincare, So it sounds like
I've got a lot to learn. But what else do
you do you have any Is that just that? Do
you do anything else for skincare?
Speaker 1 (04:02):
First off, you're making a real mistake by not moisturizing
at night. I also have a couple of mists that
I put on that are have some aloe in it.
I've come a long way, I will say that. Like
in my twenties, I was just applying like alo to
my face all the time, as if it was a moisturizer.
But yeah, I am all about that moisture rich life.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I hear it. I wake up and my face is
like screaming at me.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I even put a sleep mask to avoid ch happed lips.
I just slather it on, go to sleep, and I
wake up with the moistest Is that No, that's not
a word, Molly. I wake up with the most moist
like replenished lips I have ever had in my life.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
You're definitely glowing, So I feel like I've got a
thing or two to learn from not only our guest,
but you too.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yes and Matt. I am really excited to talk skincare
with our guests. Jen Sullivan. Jen has a long relationship
with beauty and skincare. She's a journalist and co host
of the popular beauty podcas Ask That Mask Era. She
has spent her entire career interviewing experts, dermatologists, estheticians, scientists, researchers,
(05:08):
and makeup artists about skincare and beauty.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Jen is the real deal. Formerly the beauty director and
features editor for Marie Claire and today is the calmness
behind New York magazines Ask the Beauty Editor column in
The Cut.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Jen, Welcome to grown up Stuff How to Adult. Thank
you so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Thanks for having me. It's amazing to me that I'm
on the like the projecting end of his adulthood, telling
people how to adult.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
I love this. Well, that's the great thing about being
a specialist, right, It's like, maybe you're not a full, complete,
amazing adult, but there's one part of it, which is
skincare that you're going to give the best advice, and
that's what people come here for.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Exactly that is true.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
That is true, and I do think I have that
down both professionally and personally, so I'm happy to share
with everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I will tell the audience because this is an audio
only medium. Your skin looks fair fantastic right now on video,
like it looks glowing, Matt.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Said, I'm glowing glowing already my favorite podcast I've ever
been on.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I'm just saying, like, if someone is glowing in real life,
it's very like I feel like the video. There's a
couple of filters of the Internet we're going through, and
you're still glowing, still glowing, Like that's the glow.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Because I follow on my own advice.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Guys, then let's get into some advice. We were talking
earlier before the podcast started about how to not gender things,
but maybe I will just a touch. I mean, I
am a man and a minimalist, and soap is probably
the biggest part of my skincare routine, and so I
get a little confused when there's like there's face soap
and body soap. Why are there so many different products
(06:42):
out there around you know, soap and washing in general,
Like why can't we all just do it with one
simple borrow soap?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yes, And I want to follow up on this. I've
seen a lot of commercials for things like body bars
where it looks like just a bar of soap, but
the ads seem to be implying that people can use
this bar of soap for both their body and their face.
Is that allowed?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Okay, I'm gonna blow your mind.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Now.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
What you guys all are talking about is not soap.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
What.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
First of all, let me just preface this by saying,
I am not a dermatologist. I am a skincare enthusiast,
twenty years of journalism experience. In this interview germs and
interview facialists. You're talking about Syndeths so soap. It is
a product made with tallow It is completely different from
the cleansers that you guys are talking about, like cosmetic bars,
(07:30):
beauty bars. When you go to France and there's like
an olive oil fancy quote unquote soap, it's not really soap,
Like I still call it soap. It's the same way
you call it Kleenex tissue, you know. And you asked,
why are there so many and what's going on? And like, yeah,
there's so many options for cleansing, and the reason is
because of all the things I can tell you not
to do, because like you don't need that, you don't
need that, you do need to cleanse your face, like
(07:51):
also because of air pollution these days. Yes, if you
wear makeup or things like that, and if you wear sunscreen,
which I hope you do, which I know we're going
to talk about, you have to get it off at
the end of the day. But it can be with
a very mild bar as you call it, if it's
not drying your skin, and that works for you and
all the traces of things that you could see or
gone from your skin there you washed your face. Doesn't
(08:12):
have to be complicated.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I do feel like my soap is harsh. What are
the kind of the ranges.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Of a gentle cleanser?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, Well, the way to know if your cleanser is
too harsh, the typical thing germs will tell you and
other facialists I've talked to is that does your skin
feel tight after you wash your face? Which I think
a lot of us growing up, we're taught squeaky clean. Yeah,
squeaky was a good thing, right, Well, squeaky is not
a good thing. That just means that you've stripped some
of the natural moisture from your skin.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Okay, okay, now quick question, because we've all found ourselves
in the situation where we're like, oh god, I'm not
a body washer' like oh my bar soap is done,
and we're just like, oh, well, there's the hand soap
on the counter. Can we just use?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Like what it depends? It depends on the hand soap.
If it's anti bacterial, say no, because you don't want
to mess with your skins microbiome, which is the good
bacteria that lives on your skin. And I don't think
a lot of people there's been so many studies that
show like you don't even need to wash your hands
with antibacterial so to get rid of bacteria. Like just
the washing alone with a regular cleanser works. But like
(09:16):
hand washes tend to be a little bit more drying,
so if you have sensitive skin, there's usually more perfume
in hand soaps, So that's another reason you might not
want to put it on your face. But like if
it's a gentle like Dove style body bar that kind
of thing, like yeah, hand face, it's like you could
put it anywhere, But it all depends on how your
skin reacts to it, which is what I think people
(09:37):
forget when they're thinking about skincare. They read and they
see all these advertisements and they talk to people, and
all of a sudden, they're like, I'm doing everything wrong,
and I'm always trying to say, if it's not broke,
don't fix it, you know. But here's Matt over here
with his tight feeling skin after he washes. So maybe
there's an adjustment to be made well.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And the other adjustment might be like how often we're
washing our face? Right, Like, yes, what is it's kind
of the best practice, like in the morning, at night,
every other day.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, so the standard would be at night at the
bare minimum, so once a day, but people with oily
skin sometimes to also like to wash in the morning.
I don't happen to wash my face in the morning
because I have dry skin. I just rinse it with
water and go on with my routine.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
So maybe a important part of this is kind of
just figuring out what your skin type is.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yes, that could be part of it, though I think
people get hung up on that. I think it's so
individual and it's like I could have dry skin, but
I also have pimples, and it's oily over here.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So I feel like there's nation.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Yeah. Yeah, it's not easy to categorize as simply as
I think marketers would have you believe. But in general,
I would say it's based on moisture level mostly like
from the drier end of the spectrum to the oil
eer is the easiest way to do it.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Now, can overwash and create more oil the same way
like washing your hair too much?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, like rebound oiliness. Yes, And that's one shone for sure.
Even people with oily skin sometimes need moisturizer as well
because otherwise your skin's going to pump out more seabum
because it feels that it's dry. That's a very simplified
way to put it. But yeah, don't overwash if you
have oily skin.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
So in terms of like washing alone, are there ingredients
in those products that we should look out for that
we like, oh, you want to have a soap with
something like that? And on the converse side, like are
there ingredients that we should avoid in cleansers?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
So cleansing your skin, every commercial like cleanser out there
for your face is going to take off the oil,
the sunscreen, the makeup in different ways. If you have
makeup on, you might need more oil based cleanser because
that helps break down the makeup and something that's foaming
that has surfactants might not be as good. It all
depends on your skin type. But I don't like demonizing
ingredients in general, because for every ingredient that I'm like personally,
(11:49):
I'm not into that it might really work for somebody else.
So the whole idea of like good versus bad in skincare,
I think is an antiquated notion, and it should be
more like like I used it and it worked for me,
or it did this thing to my skin that I
didn't like.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
That's great advice. You're talking about makeup, and I want
to jump to that really quickly. So I am a
person who wears makeup and mostly I makeup, and I
I try to do an oil free because I feel
like this might be too much information for the audience,
But this is just my skin type. This is what's happening.
Is if I use an oil based one, I tend
to get like sties. Then am I eye oh okay?
(12:26):
And I also notice that even if I've been using
a like hyaluronic acid like makeup wipe, two that I
really like because it's super soft. But I always feel
like whatever makeup remover I've used or tried, I feel
like there's some sort of like film, even when it's
an oil for you one and so then I'll wash
my face again too. Yeah, is that a thing? Like?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Is that?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (12:47):
So you have inadvertently discovered double cleansing.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Oh, I didn't even know. This is a thing.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
That's totally a thing. So double cleansing is basically washing
the first time, or quote unquote washing, but really using
an oil based something like a cleansing bomb or cleansing
oil that helps break down the waxes, polymers and oils
in the makeup and remove it and as you said,
usually leaves behind some sort of moisturizing some sort of film.
(13:13):
Then you can go in with a regular cleanser that
might be slightly foamire a little bit more like traditional
soapy feeling to remove both the residue and then any
last remnants of things that you didn't get off with
the oily bomb. I do that for you, though, because
the sties, I would say, do it with a makeup remover,
like a liquid makeup remover, and yes, you'll feel like
(13:34):
your eyes are all oily and it's annoying. Yeah, and
then go wash your face with a regular cleanser, okay, And.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Why is it so important to remove the makeup at
the end of the day before you go to bed.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So as much as like products are marketed as noncommutogenic,
which really it doesn't mean anything other than doesn't clog
your pores. You don't want a film of something sitting
on your skin at night. Like it might not clog
your poor in that it will cause acne, but it's
not healthy for your skin. There's also pollutants, and there's
been studies to show that even just like the micro
(14:05):
pollutants in air, just if you live near a traffic
for example, or you're in New York City, that these
things can cause signs of aging like age spots. Oh yeah,
these are all reasons that you want to cleanse at night.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
B are be looking at a ranch in the middle
of nowhere. Oh my god, that's terrifying.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
And then let's talk about exfoliating, because that's like a
different type of washing, and for.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Me, it seems the same as washing, right if you're
using it, especially like strippy soap, like me apparently, like
is that good?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
You mean you're exfoliating every day basically for what it
sounds like, it seems like it.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So exfoliating is There's so many kinds of exfoliators. There
are chemical exfoliators, like something like a vitamin a derivative
like a retinoid that is technically exfoliating in a way.
There are ah's and liquid exfoliating essences. There are manual
physical scrubs, things like do you use peach pits or
micro beads?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I used to use one that had peach pits, yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Crush pits like that, micro beads, clays, micup seeds sometimes,
you know, the natural stuff. In general, if your skin
doesn't feel like if there's an excess of like flakiness
or things like that, or you don't have fine lines
or anything like that, and you're pretty happy with the
way it looks, you don't need to be exfoliating. I
(15:25):
know that people like you know, Marketers, would have us
to leave otherwise, but.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Like, yeah, yeah, and I want to kind of now
talk about washcloths. Should we be using washcloths? Not be
using washcloths.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
I love a washcloth because it gives you a tiny
bit of exfoliating in the cleansing action of it. And
I also feel like you get rid of more product.
It's much easier to get cleanser off of your face
and it feels nice. The bad thing is then you
need like seven a week, because you really shouldn't be
using the same washcloth to wash your face the next day,
especially if you're someone who wears sunscreen and or makeup.
(15:57):
Where do you think that went?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Like?
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It's now on the water wash cloth. You're cleansing your skin,
so you want to use the cleanest thing to cleanse it, right,
So you have to clean them frequently and as long
as they're not irritating if you have anything broken or
open or acne or things like that, it should be fine.
And in fact it's beneficial because it gets rid of
more stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Did you hear that the makeup and dirt on your
face isn't just rinsing off the wash cloth and going
down the drain. A good portion is sticking to the cloth,
So be sure to change them out very regularly. Now,
admittedly I don't always change mine regularly. I use a
nice muslin cloth just for my face. But when I
(16:41):
told Jen that sometimes I go two weeks before changing it.
She was pretty appalled.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Where is it hanging? Is it hanging in the damp
bathroom while damp with dead skin cells and make it
and just sitting there like moist until.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
The next day.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Is the positive subscribing?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, I would be saying more. I'm just saying for Molly,
it's gonna be okay, We're gonna.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Figure it to be okay. No, this is jen call
me out on this.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I need to hear even twenty four hours, a bunch
of mold and mildew's gonna grow and two weeks maybe,
but it's just you're cleansing your skin, so you want
to use the cleanest thing to cleanse it, right.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Lesson learned. Gen Lesson learned. One of the other major
factors that often comes with having skin is acne. It's
one of the most common skin conditions that many of
us experience, and according to Yale Medicine, approximately eighty five
percent of people between the ages of twelve to twenty
four have acne. But it doesn't just disappear when you
(17:41):
reach your mid twenties. As many of us know, Roughly
twenty five percent of women and twelve percent of men
in their forties also report having acne. Many of us
will use facial cleansers to help treat acne, but pimples
can pop up anywhere on your body. So let's say
we have bacni body acne. Wherever it is it's showing up.
(18:04):
Is that a thing where we should be using maybe
face wash. That's like targeting acne on our entire body.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
The baseline ingredient that I would say to start with
before you even go to the dirm, let's just see
if this could help, would be salasilic acid, which is
a standard treatment for facial acne as well. There's a
bunch of body washes with that ingredient, so I would
say try that first.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Curious to hear your take on like a good old
fashion like backscrubber too, because I feel like that's another
reason why people can't like necessarily reach there to like
xfoliate and or clean properly. Is do you recommend that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
If you have body acne. I don't think it's that
you're not washing yourself. That's also a myth. The fact
that like dirty skin is where acne comes from. The
issue that you might be running into not you, just
people is when you work out in the oil and say,
like your sports prof you wear a sportspra BacT there,
or your hair's dragging on it, or if you're wearing
tight clothing and sweating and you didn't wash your clothes
right away after you exercised, that can cause bumps. But
(18:57):
there's an inflammation at the base of acne, so anything
that might inflame the skin more you want to stay
away from and manual exfoliation, which is the quote unquote
scrubbing could not be good for that. You want to
treat it as gently as possible. That's like skincare one
oh one. Guys like do not pick, do not touch,
even if there's nothing there, Like just touching your face
a lot isn't great.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So I'm bad because sometimes I will. Actually, my sister's
the worst at this. She cannot leave a white head
alone for the life of her.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
If you're like that, like some of the brands they
even sell like fidget spinners, so you have something to
do with your hands, Yeah, because like that's what it
is for a lot of people. You know, when you
have acne, you don't feel in control, and there's lots
of research to show it as a psychological component and
just being like popping it makes you feel like you're
doing something, so I totally understand it. But it can
cause post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, which is like those dark spots
(19:47):
you get after the pimple goes, because you've like increased
the inflammation by messing with it.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I'm going to share this with saying, if you messed
with it, you cause that problem.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
It can happen anyway, but it's one more reason not
to mess with it. A warm compress, they always say,
and then use two Q tips gentle like never at
the head, just around the head, like further out. If
it doesn't pop right away, just stop it's not ready.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
It can be so hard to ignore a huge pimple
somewhere on your face or body. I mean, there's an
entire show on TLC dedicated to dirms who pop giant
cysts and pimples professionally. Seeing one of our pimples pop
and ooze out the pus held from within feels like
this release or cleansing, as if we've rid ourselves of
(20:40):
an alien substance and are somehow lighter and purer now
having it expelled from our skin. But as Jen says,
if you can avoid doing this, it will lead to
happier looking skin in the long term. While cleaning our
faces and not popping pimples is just one way we
can help take care of our skin, moisturizing can be
another important step in our skincare routine. Moisturizers not only
(21:03):
provide hydration to our skin, but moisturizing can help protect
against inflammation as well. According to a study published in
the Indian Journal of Dermatology, most moisturizers today actually block
the activity that creates pro inflammatory pro stenoids and soothe
the epidermis from inflammatory conditions like psoriasis. But did we
(21:23):
always need to moisturize.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Well, if we're back in the day and we weren't
using sunscreen and we were out in nature and we
did not wash with cleansers, we probably wouldn't need to moisturize.
But we wash with cleansers to get off all this
air pollution in this dart and the sunscreen is to
make up, and that does strip some of the natural
moisturizing factors in your skin, so you want to replace them.
And also the more hydrated your skin is, like, the
(21:48):
better it looks, and the better it operates and the
better it feels. So, I mean, there's very few people
I know who don't love the benefit of a good
moisturizer and their skin doesn't need it, even people with
oily skin.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So in saying that thing, does dry skin necessarily age faster?
Speaker 3 (22:05):
I don't know if there's research on that, but I've
definitely heard that like Old Wives tales, well, I think
it was a bunch of like well meaning aunties who
wanted to make you feel better about that your acne, right, like, oh,
but you have boil these skin now, so you're going
to age better. But you know, based on ethnicity and
the type of skin you have. They do have research
showing different skin types age differently, but I don't know
that it's specifically because you're oilier.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Then does our skin dry out as we age?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Absolutely, like just how everything else starts breaking down.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Right, We're just we're slowly breaking.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah. And if you're a woman and you are in menopause,
so like when estrogen levels drop, that also causes it,
but it happens to men as well. There's the correlation
there of like when your skin is dry, any sort
of texture or fine lines are so much more noticeable,
like a wrinkled piece of paper versus like, you know,
a smooth piece of paper.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
That's good to know that because I feel like no
one's ever like been like that's what's happening. Because I move.
I basically moved to New York from California, and I
was like, man, I'm putting on a lot more moisturizer.
I just feel dry more. And as the years have
gone on, I'm like, I feel like I'm more and
more dry. I'm just getting older, that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And I noticed that, like, you know, when I moved.
When I go back to visit family in Chicago, where
it's a lot more, it's not nearly as humid, I
need to moisturize a lot more. Is that real?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, your skin's definitely drier in drier environments. There's plenty
of research showing that. And if you ask any flight attendant,
they will tell you because they age so fast up there,
because they're a closer to the sun the ultra violet light.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
More reason to be nicer to them.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
But also it's like ten percent humidity or something like
that in the cabin. I'm sure you've noticed whenever you've
gotten off of a plane that you're like dry, dry dry. Yeah,
so when you're in a dry climate, sure you need
to moisturize more. But just because you're in a humid climate,
that's just water content in the air. That doesn't mean
it's like good moisturizing factors that help your skin, like
like a glycerin per se, which is like one of
(23:56):
the simplest moisturizers and totally underrated in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
What other like non obvious agents might be drying our
skin that we don't even like think about or necessarily
even know about.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Sure, I mean anything that you might have an allergy
to can cause dryness, Like a wool sweater. I was like,
why is my face always dry when I wear wool?
I must have like some sort of thing with wool.
Things like that. Interesting the dry air. I don't about you, guys,
but I love a humidifier in New York City in
the winter because while you're sleeping you are losing so
much moisture in your skin. A humidifier is really nice.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
This is a silly question. What about a high sodium diet?
Does that dry out your skin?
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yes, salt for sure, dries out your skin. Okay, I
just thought of another one. Hot water. Okay, so the
stuff between your cells on your skin, it's basically like
cement between bricks, and cold water wouldn't affect that, but
hot water, if it's hot enough, will basically melt that.
So if dirms had their way, you would be washing
your face with tepid water. You would be showering in
(24:58):
tepid water. You would never, oh my god, in hot water,
which is crazy because nobody's like that. But the thing
I had on Caroline Hirns on my podcast, and I
told her that I washed my face in the shower. Yeah,
you know with like shower temperature water, which is what
like one hundred ten degrees I'm guessing. I mean, she
was appalled that I stuck my face in the shower stream.
(25:19):
She's like, you're putting that hot water on your face
and I was like, yeah, it feels so good. I'm
rinsing off the cleanser. She just was like, you just
got rid of all of your natural moisture that was there.
You melted it off.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Basically, I one do that every day of my life.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I do this too.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, so people do, but like that will be drying
out your body skin. You're gonna want to put moisturizer
on your damp skin when you get out, but try
not to put your face into the hot water of
the shower stream.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Huh. Let's talk about ingredients a little bit and what
are some of the things the different things that are
thrown around that we should like that we see advertised
and moisturizers that we want or don't need.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
My thing with a lot of these ingredients is again,
if it's not broken, don't fix it. If you don't
have spots and you don't have an issue that you're like,
this is what I'm targeting and trying to fix. I
wouldn't go adding any of these we call them active
ingredients into your skincare routine. Like there's no rule that
you become an adult and you need vitamin C or
you become an adult, it's time for a retinoid. I
(26:16):
think these myths have really like perpetuated that, like I'm
twenty nine, I have to use a retinoid or I'm
behind everybody else. No, you're not. If your skin's fine
and you don't have a targeted concern, just keep doing
what you're doing. Cleanse, moisturize when you're dry, and always
wear sunscreen because that does more than any of these
ingredients will do. And here's the thing also that I'll
(26:37):
tell you that I think is really important. When you're
talking about skincare. Celebrities are fake. Everything that they are
telling you is not true. If they say they just
use olive oil and water. They are getting injectables, they
are getting laser treatments. They are spending thousands and thousands
of dollars on procedures they don't want you to know about.
And if they give you a little piece of information
like oh, I got a laser, you better believe that's
(26:57):
an iceberg. That's just the tip. And they got a
million other things too, And I know they do because
I talk to the people that give them these treatments, right,
And I just think it makes the rest of us
feel like we have to keep up and we're not
doing well. And why do they look like that when
I don't look like that? And I think that comes
up a lot when you talk about skincare, And it's
just I'm out here to tell you, like it takes
(27:18):
a lot of work to look ageless like a celebrity.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
But That's a good point where like people might read like,
you know, Scarlet Johansson's skincare routine and think that it's
also going to work for them and make them look
like Scarlet Johansson, and their skin might be different and
react differently to it. Like, So that's another really important
point to make as well. Absolutely, we'll be right back
(27:43):
with more grown up stuff how to adult after a
quick break and we're back with more grown up stuff
how to adults. In twenty twenty two, the beauty market,
which includes skincare, fragrances, makeup, and hair care, generated about
(28:04):
four hundred and thirty billion dollars in revenue, and it's
continued to increase in value year over year. That's according
to data from Mackinsey and Company and research published by
The Insight Partners valued the global skincare product market size
at one hundred and fifteen point thirty eight million dollars
in twenty twenty one. It's no wonder considering how many
(28:28):
skincare products there are on the market. There are serums
that claim to eliminate fine lines and wrinkles, a spray
that will moisturize your skin while setting your makeup, an
oil that will give your face a natural, healthy glow.
Out of this limitless variety, what should we use and
how can we make the most of these different products. Okay,
(28:48):
let's go one step beyond moisturizers and talk oils, serums,
miss creams.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
So you're talking about the vehicle, which is what we
call like the format of the product. These aren't all moisturizers.
There's gonna be treatment products in there as well. Like
at the beginning of your skincare you have a cleanser
and at the very end you hopefully have a sunscreen,
and so in between there could be all these steps
that are quote unquote creams or lotions or oils, but
they could be targeting different issues. So it depends on
(29:16):
what you're trying to treat your skin for. But in
generally you go from like the thinner consistency to the
thicker consistency. Oh okay, and that's the way to think
about that. I would say. The thing with skincare is
think about the variables. Like, if something's going wrong with
your skin and you're putting a lot of products on,
you're gonna have to pair all. This is what you
would do if you went to a dorm anyway, they
would take you all the way back to like nothingness,
like a seravey or cetophyl cleanser the mildest one and sunscreen.
(29:41):
So I usually tell people, like, especially when you get
into the step routines or multi steps, like we were
talking about what order things like that, make sure you
don't have any irritation, sensitivity, or issues, because if you do,
you're gonna want to pair all the way back and
then like one by one, add in something and see
if it works for you. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
So we talked a lot about moisturizing. We've talked a
lot about how to wash your face. Let's talk about
protecting it. First off, Do I really need to put
some on screen on? If I don't go outside?
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Do you sit near a window? Can you see?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Is there enough light to see see?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
If you can see, meaning you're not in a dark
closet with blackoutshade, there is wavelens of light, how do
you think you're seeing?
Speaker 2 (30:20):
That's amazing. I love that.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
That's the way a dorm explained it to me once
where I finally got it. Wowow, Yeah, if you can see,
you need sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I wish everyone could see my face right.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Now, because once you hear it that way, you're like, oh, yeah,
wavelengths of light or how I see so that means
there's light.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, it's touching my skin too. Wow.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Okay, now let's talk let's talk minimum SPF situation. I
am a very fair skinned human and I don't do
anything less than like twenty five. But like, is there
a minimum and at what point does a max like
is it really doing anything?
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I was the one that you're gonna wear and and
that you're gonna apply a lot of and apply frequently
is the one you should use period? What if you
get hung up on the numbers, then the problem is
some people are think, I put a SPF fifty, I
don't have to put it on as frequently. That's absolutely
not true. And the SPF system doesn't really tell you
a ton anyway. It's like an antiquated way they came
up with that number. They don't even use it in
(31:19):
certain other countries, the baselines that people say SPF thirty.
But I will tell you right now, if you're putting
SPF twenty five and you're reapplying it, that's way better
than SPF thirty once a day.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Even if I'm inside, I should be reapplying.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I mean, yeah, ideally, listen, I'll be honest with you.
I put sunscreen on every morning. I probably only put
it on one more time in the day.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
There's a lot of moisturizers now that have SPF thirty
in them because they know we're lazy, and I love
that kind of product. If it has SPF thirty, it's
been measured to protect it, had to do that in
order to get that number. That's fine to use as
your sunscreen. If you're using enough to cover your entire
face at the thickness, that will give you the SPF
thirty protection. But sometimes you don't want to do that
with the fancy moisturizer because then you run. You know,
you work through it too quickly. So if you're applying
(32:01):
it and using it, that's better than nothing.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Fair.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
If you're at the beach and outdoors all day and
that kind of thing that I do, then I will
reapply like every hour, every two hours. I mean, I
wear a huge hat and I put on like the
white block that you can like literally see on my nose.
I don't care.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, my wife and I were just in Mexico and
Basically we would look at our phones every day to
like see what the UV index was when smart and
essentially we were like cool being sun screened up outside,
you know, exposed when it was I think below two,
below two or three on the UV index, and then
the peak hours between like eleven and three, when it
(32:35):
was like between four and six on the UV index,
we were like, yeah, sun hat, suns shirts, still covered
up with unscreened, you know, but really just out and
exposed when it was like the UV index was at
its lowest, and we that's the first time I've ever
gone on like a beachy sort of like I was
outside all the time vacation and I was not burned.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
See it worked. Yeah, you also said something I think
is really important. A lot of people when they think
about skin caring for your skin, they think products first, right,
because that's called skincare. But oh my gosh, protective clothing
is so great, the upf fabrics now, like wear a
surf shirt or wear a huge hat, where sunglasses, there's
(33:15):
other ways to protect yourself. Stay in the shade than
just the sun's green.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Go full head to toe under a towel and like
read your book, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yeah, I want to get into something called free radicals,
because it's another thing that we're supposed to be protecting
our skin against in addition to the sun's rays. Right, Yeah,
so what is the best way we can protect our
skin from free radicals? And yeah, tell me a little
bit about what they actually are.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
So the best way to do it would be antioxidants
because they sort of diminish the effect of free radicals.
These are some of the environmental things that are going
to cause your skin to age prematurely, and it's going
to happen no matter what. But the antioxidant ingredients like
things like green tea, vitamin C, vitamin E, even at
low levels, they helped to finish the free radicals so
they can't attack the skin. I'm going to use the
(34:03):
word attack very loosely here and oxidize it and age it.
So that is what you're looking for when you want
to protect against them. Most moisturizers now, though, have usually
have some antioxidant activity in them. Okay, like it's hard
to find unless it's market is a body moisturizer. There's
very few moisturizers that are like just moisture.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Should we be protecting our like body skin though, from
free radicals too, if.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
You want to.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Sure, Okay, we don't want our body skin looking all either.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Sure, but I also think that we overestimate how much
skincare can do. Like, sure, if you put on a
body lotion with antioxidants and they're an expensive ingredient depending
on the antioxidant, like every day, maybe you're going to
look minimally younger at age sixty than somebody else. But like,
to what end that's what you're doing? You know, good points,
Let's be reasonable.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Let's also look into other things about protecting our skin,
like getting an annual skin check.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
At your germ.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Yeah, so obviously, aside from putting on daily soundblocks, this
is a really important part of protecting our skin. Can
you tell us a little bit why everyone should be
scheduling a yearly skin check with their dirt.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
I didn't get one this year check.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I know.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's bad, It's real bad. It's a lot of work.
You got to go to the doctors, get undressed, They
take pictures if they do it well because they want
to compare moles from here to there. That's sure, but
you really should be going every year And I'm feeling
really guilty that I didn't go this past calendar year.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Another thing people don't think about it is like, I'm just
like moles, right, if you've got moles, like it's really
important to get that checked out for melanoma and other things.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, but even if you do, that's I think that's
another reason why I feel like, oh, well, I'm you know,
I'm not really fair skinned and I don't have moles.
But there's other kinds of skin cancers that aren't related
to the color of your skin or the moles or
your ethnicity that like can still be really bad. So yeah,
that's why you go.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
So you know, cleansers, moisturizers, spfs, all kinds of things
you can do to take every skin. But let's take
it further back. There's plenty that you can do outside
of skin care that directly affects your skin. I'm thinking hydration,
your diet, your exercise. How does our overall health affect
(36:14):
our skin, and what can we be doing in our
daily lives to take care of our largest organ.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
It's the same advice you'd get from a nutritionist for
saying healthy, it's eat more fruits and vegetables and whole grains.
Less meat and sugar both can lead to inflammation. Less
dairy things like that, and you'll definitely see a difference
in your skin. And there's lots of ties between things
like soriasis, eggs, acne, these specialty skin issues. There are
diet links. Sometimes it depends on the skin issue. Oh interesting,
(36:43):
but it's not like greasy food caluses greasy acne.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
But nobod I would imagine like inflammatory foods, like foods like.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Cost sugar for sure. Yeah, sugar for sure. They've seen
correlation between high sugar diet.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
That's been a huge one for me. I have like
crisis of the scalp and I've been going through like
a diet transformation thing, and yeah, I if I'm eating
more whole grand like a more Mediterranean style diet and
taking cutting out alcohol and gluten, like I really like
night and day seeing crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
We don't want to believe it, but it is. Yeah,
it absolutely works. And then you're pissed it works because
you're like, darn it, I have to put in the work.
I have to eat healthy.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Jen just wanted to thank you so much for taking
the time to chat with us about skincare. Feel like
it's an often overlooked but incredibly important part of being
an adult taking care of your skin as you age.
So thank you for being on and you know everyone
listening that has been had their mind blown. Go to
fat Messcare Podcasts Anywhere. Podcasts are are available to get
your mind blown even.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
More, and you can follow Jen on Instagram at Jen
j e n n Underscore Edit. Jen, Thank you so
so much for being here.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
I'm honestly rocked by this revelation that I should be
wearing sunscreen indoors, but I will definitely be making more
of an effort to do that, even if I'm just
working from home. Here's what else I've learned about taking
care of my skin from Gen. In our modern world,
it's important to wash your skin every day to clear
it of daily pollution and any sunscreens or lotions that
(38:17):
we've put on to protect it. Tight skin is not
a feeling you want after you wash your face. It
means you're stripping your skin too much of its natural oils.
Doing this too much can potentially make your face overproduce oil.
So if you're washing your face with the same bar
of soap that you're using on the rest of your body.
(38:37):
This may be a sign that it's time to invest
in a gentler or facial cleanser, and maybe even a
new wash or cleanser for the rest of your body too.
If your hand soap has antibacterial in it, probably not
the best idea to wash your whole body with it.
I've been doing something called double cleansing this whole time,
which is a process frequently used to remove makeup, where
(39:00):
you start with one maybe oilier product to remove the makeup,
and then follow it up with a gentle cleanser to
remove any oil or film left behind and to get
the last bits of makeup that might be still left
on after the first step. Popping pimples that aren't ready
to be popped can result in post inflammatory hyperpigmentation, which
(39:20):
is when your skin creates more melanin as a reaction
to injury or irritation of the skin. If you truly
cannot help yourself, try a warm compress first, followed by
gently pushing two Q tips in from further away from
the pimple. If it doesn't pop easily, it's not ready
and just leave it alone. Your skin will lose moisture
(39:41):
as you age, so it's important to keep moisturizing as
you get older, and just because you might live in
a more humid climate doesn't mean you don't have to moisturize.
So just do your skin a favor. Always moisturize, avoid
too much salt in your diet, and stop washing your
face with hot water. Up fly and reapply sunscreen if
(40:02):
you're in natural light anywhere, you should be wearing sunscreen.
Don't neglect what a healthy diet of fruits, vegetables and
whole grains can do to promote healthy skin. Matt with
the listeners don't know is that Jen has also made
it her mission to find you a face wash to
help you fight that skin tightness. Buddy, if anyone can
(40:23):
do this, I know it's Jen and Molly.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I am here with an update. In fact, she sent
me an email already.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Really what did she say?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
So?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
She recommended Dove's fragrance free sensitive skin bar, which looks
like it fits the bill. I feel like I always
kind of gravitate away from Dove because of the fragrance.
Not a huge fan of the way it smells, but
it's got a fragrance for you. I'm here to try
it and my face I'm sure will appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I'm so excited for you to take this journey, and
I know your sister, who is a skincare queen, is
also going to be equally thrilled by this upgrade to
your routine. But Matt, tell me about what our lovely
listeners can expect to learn this season on grown up stuff,
how to adult?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
We have so many great episodes coming up this season.
We are going to figure out about plant care, learn
all of the mistakes that we're making when it comes
to doing laundry. And I'm personally very excited to learn
what dog ownership looks like and what it entails.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Ah, Matt, you know how much I love a good pun. Plus,
in two weeks, we are welcoming Lizzie Post back to
the podcast to talk to us about everything we need
to know and do when we're asked to be in
a wedding party. I think I'd be an exceptional wedding
party member. But I've only officially been in like two weddings.
(41:43):
Officially well, yeah, I kind of like weaseled my way
into like a few secondary roles in other weddings. You know,
I was a reader in one ceremony, a program passer
outer at another, the person in charge of desserts, and
even a bouncer at one wedding. Do you think those
counts like winning party people?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I am not sure they do, but I think we'll
find out for sure in two weeks on the next
episode of Grown Up Stuff, How do adult?
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And remember you might not be graded in life, but
it never hurts to do your homework.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
This is a production from Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. Our
executive producers are Mollissha.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
And Matt Stillo. This episode was engineered by the Matt.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Stillo and written by Malli Soosha.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
This episode was edited by Sierra
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Spreen and we want to thank our teammates at Ruby Studio,
including Ethan Fixel, Rachel Swan Krasnov, Amber Smith, Deborah Garrett,
and Andy Kelly.